#rodrik lannister arryn

[tbtgtr-incorrectquotes]

would naerys choose to honor rodrik by naming a son after him? it look like she had conflicting feeling about father dearest

she would!!! Rodrik Lannister Arryn is born later than his siblings and Naerys has had a long time to reconcile her father’s sins and good parts. in the end she decides she loves him too much to hold to the bad when her childhood was full of joy before then.

[naerys-arryn]

Can you tell us which of the canon kids has the Lannister look or the Arryn/Targ look?

I find the combination of silver hair with green eyes beautiful, so was wondering if any of them got it?

Cerenna — Green eyes, silver hair

Tommen — Green-Blue eyes, gold hair

Daella — Violet eyes, gold hair

Rodrik — blue eyes, gold hair

[sebeth]

Watch "Daella Targaryen: The Shy Princess (Jaehaerys Reign) Game Of Thrones History & Lore" on YouTube

[saintsunfyre]

JOHANNA LANNISTER (BORN WESTERLING), REGENT TO LOREON LANNISTER

She capably led the remnants of the shattered Lannister forces in the ongoing conflict with the Greyjoys raiding the coasts, which continued as essentially a localized war even though the Dance had formally ended. Lady Johanna famously donned man's mail to lead the remaining Lannister forces in the struggle to drive the ironborn from their shore. There was a struggle for power among the ironborn after the Red Kraken was murdered at Faircastle a few years later. Since the Lannister fleet had been destroyed by the Greyjoys, Lady Johanna allied with the lord admiral of the Reach, Ser Leo Costayne, to have the westermen invade the Iron Islands in 134 AC. When Rodrik Greyjoy was taken to Casterly Rock as a captive, Lady Johanna had him gelded and made him her son's fool. Lady Johanna also helped reclaim the dwindling glory of House Lannister and lent gold to King's Landing to help rebuild the extensive damages caused by the previous civil war.

WINTER OF THE WIDOWS (1/9)

Johanna Lannister // Samantha Hightower // Sharis Footly // Lady Tyrell // Alys Rivers // Sabitha Frey // Jeyne Arryn // Elenda Baratheon // Aliandra Martell

[jacaela]

Rhaenyra's murder is the height of misogyny in her story, because it required cutting her chest, the feminine part of her body. She wasn't just killed, she was mocked because she was a woman... And then lady Lannister and lady Tyrell, who led their houses, refused to send troops to help Aegon defeat the army of the blacks and he died from a woman's weapon.

Ser Rodrik tugged at his whiskers. “Poison, well . . . that could be the dwarf’s work, true enough. Or Cersei’s. It’s said poison is a woman’s weapon, begging your pardons, my lady. The Kingslayer, now . . . I have no great liking for the man, but he’s not the sort. Too fond of the sight of blood on that golden sword of his. Was it poison, my lady?”

- AGOT, CATELYN

“What you suggest is possible, my lord, yet I do not think it likely. Every hedge maester knows the common poisons, and Lord Arryn displayed none of the signs. And the Hand was loved by all. What sort of monster in man’s flesh would dare to murder such a noble lord?” “I have heard it said that poison is a woman’s weapon.”

- AGOT, EDDARD

The queen commanded Maester Frenken to put her to bed with a cup of dreamwine. “Tears,” she said scornfully to Sansa as the woman was led from the hall. “The woman’s weapon, my lady mother used to call them. The man’s weapon is a sword. And that tells us all you need to know, doesn’t it?”

- ACOK, SANSA, CHAPTER SIXTY

[vivacissimx]

Heyy hope you're well. Ignore this if you want but I'm curious, do you believe in the Maester Conspiracy?

Let me take this step by step. Long post incoming but you asked, so:

WELCOME TO VIVACISSIMX'S CONCLUSIVE POST ON THE MAESTER CONSPIRACY!!!

The Maester Conspiracy is the theory that the maesters of the citadel work in concert with one another to effect certain political ends in line with their longstanding designs for Westeros — including a specific aim to hamper the existence/return of magic via living dragons.

The only dragontamers during the times of Fire & Blood and ASOIAF are Targaryens, so it ties together as: the maesters have sought to limit/manipulate/end Targaryen rule because they are anti-magic for reasons known best to them.

Do I believe in this? Textually it's pretty clear that this phenomenon exists.

FIRST: REASONS THE MAESTER CONSPIRACY IS DEFINITELY ACTUALLY FACTUALLY REAL

ONE: Multiple characters from different backgrounds tell us so.

Pycelle’s breathing was rapid and shallow. “All I did, I did for House Lannister.” A sheen of sweat covered the broad dome of the old man’s brow, and wisps of white hair clung to his wrinkled skin. “Always.. for years... your lord father, ask him, I was ever his true servant... ’twas I who bid Aerys open his gates... ” That took Tyrion by surprise. He had been no more than an ugly boy at Casterly Rock when the city fell. “So the Sack of King’s Landing was your work as well?” “For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king... I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly... ” “How many have you betrayed, I wonder? Aerys, Eddard Stark, me... King Robert as well? Lord Arryn, Prince Rhaegar? Where does it begin, Pycelle?”

—ACOK, Tyrion VI + emphasis mine

[Archmaester] Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. “Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?” He spat. “The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can.”

—AFFC, Samwell V

Why can't Archmaester Marwyn be trusted? Since it's the same reason Aemon can't be trusted?

"Archmaester Marwyn's Book of Lost Books." [Rodrik Harlaw] lifted his gaze from the page to study her. "Hotho brought me a copy from Oldtown. He has a daughter he would have me wed." Lord Rodrik tapped the book with a long nail. "See here? Marwyn claims to have found three pages of Signs and Portents, visions written down by the maiden daughter of Aenar Targaryen before the Doom came to Valyria.

—AFFC, The Kraken's Daughter

His interest in Targaryen prophecy, perhaps? (Aemon is also seen to have said interest, corresponding with Rhaegar Targaryen on the matter.)

[Barbrey Ryswell:] "[Maesters] heal, yes. I never said they were not subtle. They tend to us when we are sick and injured, or distraught over the illness of a parent or a child. Whenever we are weakest and most vulnerable, there they are. Sometimes they heal us, and we are duly grateful. When they fail, they console us in our grief, and we are grateful for that as well. Out of gratitude we give them a place beneath our roof and make them privy to all our shames and secrets, a part of every council. And before too long, the ruler has become the ruled. "That was how it was with Lord Rickard Stark. Maester Walys was his grey rat's name. And isn't it clever how the maesters go by only one name, even those who had two when they first arrived at the Citadel? That way we cannot know who they truly are or where they come from… but if you are dogged enough, you can still find out. Before he forged his chain, Maester Walys had been known as Walys Flowers. Flowers, Hill, Rivers, Snow… we give such names to baseborn children to mark them for what they are, but they are always quick to shed them. Walys Flowers had a Hightower girl for a mother… and an archmaester of the Citadel for a father, it was rumored. The grey rats are not as chaste as they would have us believe. Oldtown maesters are the worst of all. Once he forged his chain, his secret father and his friends wasted no time dispatching him to Winterfell to fill Lord Rickard's ears with poisoned words as sweet as honey. The Tully marriage was his notion, never doubt it, he—"

—ADWD, The Prince of Winterfell

Please note these quotes touch on some of the largest political shifts to occur in Westeros. From germinating the idea of alliances between Great Houses in the mind of Rickard Stark who later betrothed/fostered his children to the Arryns of the Vale, the Tullys of the Riverlands, and the Baratheons of the Stormlands; to the Sack of King's Landing; to the circumstances around the Great Council that named Aegon V the Unlikely as king. I am not saying the Citadel was the sole mastermind behind all of these events, or even that maesters all act as one without their own interests/personalities guiding them... but more on that later.

TWO: The Glass Candle test.

Glass candles are obsidian—dragonglass— candles that apparently only burn when magic (see: dragons) exists in the world. Daenerys Targaryen has been hearing about these glass candles for a while now.

Xaro looked troubled. "And so it was, then. But now? I am less certain. It is said that the glass candles are burning in the house of Urrathon Night-Walker, that have not burned in a hundred years. Ghost grass grows in the Garden of Gehane, phantom tortoises have been seen carrying messages between the windowless houses on Warlock's Way, and all the rats in the city are chewing off their tails.

—ACOK, Daenerys V

Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

—ADWD, Daenerys II

Read: What Quaithe tells Daenerys here is that because the glass candles are burning, people (powerful, dangerous, with their own designs in mind) are becoming aware of her dragons. It means they're coming and Daenerys needs to be cautious of them.

And who is watching the glass candles?

Armen the Acolyte cleared his throat. “The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper… only a candle of obsidian. He must spend the night in darkness, unless he can light that candle. Some will try. The foolish and the stubborn, those who have made a study of these so-called higher mysteries. Often they cut their fingers, for the ridges on the candles are said to be as sharp as razors. Then, with bloody hands, they must wait upon the dawn, brooding on their failure. Wiser men simply go to sleep, or spend their night in prayer, but every year there are always a few who must try.” “Yes.” Pate had heard the same stories. “But what’s the use of a candle that casts no light?” “It is a lesson,” Armen said, “the last lesson we must learn before we don our maester’s chains.

—AFFC, Prologue (Pate)

So, the Citadel has this tradition that every single guy ever to graduate from their school has to at least be aware of the glass candles, which basically serves the purpose of letting them know whether or not there are dragons in the world. Okay, fine, it's a lesson on failure, sure. What's interesting is that this mystical and compelling lesson on failure can only be as old as the death of the last dragon in 153 AC, otherwise they'd all be able to light the candles. So it began at most 147 years ago.

Notably, for years after the death of the last dragon, various Targaryens attempted to hatch more.

So what is the true purpose of the Glass Candle test? Why would the Citadel have a convenient means of knowing immediately if a new dragon was hatched/magic was returning, despite ostensibly having a Grand Maester on every single Targaryen King's Small Council ever?

What was their investment?

THREE: It aligns with the actions/beliefs of the maesters we see on-page.

Old Cressen might be, yet he was still a maester of the Citadel. “I need no crown but truth,” he told her, removing the fool’s helm from his head. “There are truths in this world that are not taught at Oldtown.” [...] As he sank to his knees, still he shook his head, denying [Melisandre], denying her power, denying her magic, denying her god. And the cowbells peeled in his antlers, singing fool, fool, fool while the red woman looked down on him in pity, the candle flames dancing in her red red eyes.

—ACOK, Prologue (Maester Cressen)

[Maester Luwin:] "Perhaps magic was once a mighty force in the world, but no longer. What little remains is no more than the wisp of smoke that lingers in the air after a great fire has burned out, and even that is fading. Valyria was the last ember, and Valyria is gone. The dragons are no more, the giants are dead, the children of the forest forgotten with all their lore.

—ACOK, Bran IV

Note: Maester Luwin actually has a Valyrian Steel chain and has attempted to do magic but by the end of his Citadel studies, he no longer believed in such. Due to his own failure to harness it, yes, but perhaps also due to his teachings under the archmaesters at the time.

Alleras stepped up next to Sam. "Aemon would have gone to [Daenerys] if he had the strength. He wanted us to send a maester to her, to counsel her and protect her and fetch her safely home." "Did he?" Archmaester Marwyn shrugged. "Perhaps it's good that he died before he got to Oldtown. Elsewise the grey sheep might have had to kill him, and that would have made the poor old dears wring their wrinkled hands."

—AFFC, Samwell V

FOUR: Citadel Maesters are super into dragons in general, perhaps a bit too into them, you be the judge.

In what place, if any, has there been an accumulation of dragonlore? Valyria. The Citadel. Dragonstone. Probably some of the Free Cities as well. Maybe Asshai in the far east.

—So Spake Martin, May 2000 (the Citadel clocking in at #2, technically #1, considering RIPValyria)

[H]e brushed the dirt off Colloquo Votar's Jade Compendium, a thick volume of tales and legends from the east that Maester Aemon had commanded him to find. The book appeared undamaged. Maester Thomax's Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons had not been so fortunate. It had come open as it fell, and a few pages had gotten muddy, including one with a rather nice picture of Balerion the Black Dread done in colored inks. Sam cursed himself for a clumsy oaf

—AFFC, Samwell I

Tyrion had read much and more of dragons through the years. The greater part of those accounts were idle tales and could not be relied on, and the books that Illyrio had provided them were not the ones he might have wished for. What he really wanted was the complete text of The Fires of the Freehold, Galendro's history of Valyria. No complete copy was known to Westeros, however; even the Citadel's lacked twenty-seven scrolls. They must have a library in Old Volantis, surely. I may find a better copy there, if I can find a way inside the Black Walls to the city's heart.

He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barth’s Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Barth had been a blacksmith’s son who rose to be King’s Hand during the reign of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. His enemies always claimed he was more sorcerer than septon. Baelor the Blessed had ordered all Barth’s writings destroyed when he came to the Iron Throne. Ten years ago, Tyrion had read a fragment of Unnatural History that had eluded the Blessed Baelor, but he doubted that any of Barth’s work had found its way across the narrow sea. And of course there was even less chance of his coming on the fragmentary, anonymous, blood-soaked tome sometimes called Blood and Fire and sometimes The Death of Dragons, the only surviving copy of which was supposedly hidden away in a locked vault beneath the Citadel.

When the Halfmaester appeared on deck, yawning, the dwarf was writing down what he recalled concerning the mating habits of dragons, on which subject Barth, Munkun, and Thomax held markedly divergent views.

—ADWD, Tyrion IV

Maesters who have written on dragons: Munkun, Grand Maester to Aegon III The Dragonbane whose efforts to revive the dragons all failed - he wrote True Telling about the Dance of the Dragons as well; Thomax, unknown time; and Anonymous, who wrote a real banger that the world isn't ready for, apparently. This last one will come into play later.

There is also Truth by Maester Anson, cited in AWOIAF, which is only mentioned insofar as it disagrees with Septon Barth's statement that dragons can switch sex.

So there are at least four books written by maesters on dragons, and more that the Citadel library has collected from the world over!

(The books by Thomax and Anonymous, while both being titled The Death of Dragons, are confirmed not the same.)

There is potentially one more, if the unnamed tome Arianne encounters is unique:

During the daylight hours she would try to read, but the books that they had given her were deadly dull: ponderous old histories and geographies, annotated maps, a dry-as-dust study of the laws of Dorne, The Seven-Pointed Star and Lives of the High Septons, a huge tome about dragons that somehow made them about as interesting as newts.

—AFFC, The Princess in the Tower

In summary: the Citadel's investment in dragons/magic is rigorous, a matter serious enough that they lock knowledge on it away in a vault, in order to take a maester's vows you must undergo a test that disavows magic's existence, there are maesters willing to die to deny arcane arts, potentially maesters willing to kill for that too. To a man, maesters dismiss magic... but are they actively engineering it's downfall?

This is where it gets murky. I myself would say that they take advantage of circumstances to have others do their dirty work. That maesters seek to preserve the status quo but also manipulate it to serve their own ends. Which brings us to the next point

SECOND: HOW THE MAESTER CONSPIRACY FUNCTIONS IN ASOIAF (POSSIBLY)

In ASOIAF timeline, the dragons are all already dead and magic is subdued. As a result, the winters are longer and the summers are shorter, another thing the Citadel is deeply concerned with, being the people who officially announce the changings of the seasons.

As established, we know of Pycelle's involvement in opening King's Landing for Tywin after Rhaegar died — this is where the concept of maester's having differing motives and personal loyalties comes up.

Pycelle is a pretty clear case study, he's both deeply loyal, as a maester of the Citadel, to preserving a nominal peace regardless of the dishonorable & murderous ends required to do so... but he also personally is loyal to Tywin Lannister, who is his ideal ruler.

In a letter to the Citadel, Pycelle wrote that the divisions within the Red Keep [between Aerys and Rhaegar] reminded him uncomfortably of the situation before the Dance of the Dragons a century before, when the enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra had split the realm in two, to grievous cost

—AWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

Grand Maester Pycelle cleared his throat, a process that seemed to take some minutes. "My order serves the realm, not the ruler. Once I counseled King Aerys as loyally as I counsel King Robert now, so I bear this girl child of his no ill will. Yet I ask you this—should war come again, how many soldiers will die? How many towns will burn? How many children will be ripped from their mothers to perish on the end of a spear?" He stroked his luxuriant white beard, infinitely sad, infinitely weary. "Is it not wiser, even kinder, that Daenerys Targaryen should die now so that tens of thousands might live?"

—AGOT, Eddard VIII

“For the realm! Once Rhaegar died, the war was done. Aerys was mad, Viserys too young, Prince Aegon a babe at the breast, but the realm needed a king... I prayed it should be your good father, but Robert was too strong, and Lord Stark moved too swiftly... ”

—ACOK, Tyrion VI

We know from the books of the unswerving Pycelle's loyalty to the Lannister and precisely to Lord Tywin. Why this loyalty? Was there any event we don't know yet?

There´s backstory yet to be revealed, certainly, but if you asked Pycelle he would insist that he was acting in the best interests of the realm.

—FORUM: Asshai Chat July 27, 2008

It's possible that Pycelle's advice given to Aerys was personally motivated by his own political beliefs on who was best suited to rule & his acceptance that the war was already over, so he needed to get out on the winning side. GRRM has hinted that there's more to the story.

It's additionally possible that Maester Walys, Rickard Stark's maester born from a Hightower mother and an alleged archmaester father, was advising Rickard on making alliances down south simply because that's what he thought was smart politicking.

However, it's interesting that multiple maesters were involved in arranging the chess board of power in Westeros against House Targaryen, and, now, are shown to be aligned to preserve power in the hands of... the Lannisters. More accurately, I would say they seek to preserve whoever is a) currently in power and b) amenable to a maester's advice and manipulation. More on this when we get to Stannis.

Now, Pycelle is personally loyal to the Lannisters because that is what he thinks is in "the best interests of the realm," but otherwise, maesters in general are invested in preserving the power structure as is, because war disrupts their slowgoing machinations (Marwyn's words: the world the Citadel is building). In fact, as the Lannisters infight throughout ACOK and become unstable, only to be saved by an alliance with the Tyrells, there is a response from the Citadel that indicates they're willing to switch to whoever is the dominant side, it if means protecting their influence.

[T]he Conclave accepted the fact of Pycelle's dismissal and set about choosing his successor. After giving due consideration to Maester Turquin the cordwainer's son and Maester Erreck the hedge knight's bastard, and thereby demonstrating to their own satisfaction that ability counts for more than birth in their order, the Conclave was on the verge of sending us Maester Gormon, a Tyrell of Highgarden. When I told your lord father, he acted at once." The Conclave met in Oldtown behind closed doors, Tyrion knew; its deliberations were supposedly a secret. So Varys has little birds in the Citadel too. "I see. So my father decided to nip the rose before it bloomed." He had to chuckle. "Pycelle is a toad. But better a Lannister toad than a Tyrell toad, no?"

—ASOS, Tyrion II

Before we get into cartoon villain territory, let's caveat that their involvement in the deaths of the dragons and the Targaryens who could potentially hatch them once more does seem to be a one-off for them in terms of puppet-mastering against a monarch, and indeed, they never intended war, preferring to function methodically in the background.

"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel.

—ADWD, Davos I

They maximize their influence — they don't overstep.

On to Stannis.

[Alys Karstark:] "Arnolf [Karstark] is rushing to Winterfell, 'tis true, but only so he might put his dagger in your king's back. He cast his lot with Roose Bolton long ago … for gold, the promise of a pardon, and poor Harry's head. Lord Stannis is marching to a slaughter.

—ADWD, Jon IX

“Y-your Grace, my order is sworn to serve, we…” “I know all about your vows. What I want to know is what was in the letter that you sent to Winterfell. Did you perchance tell Lord Bolton where to find us?” “S-sire.” Round-shouldered Tybald drew himself up proudly. “The rules of my order forbid me to divulge the contents of Lord Arnolf’s letters.”

—TWOW, Unreleased Theon Chapter

Here we have Arnolf Karstark, castellan of Karhold, who pledges to Stannis... but secretly he's actually pledged to Roose Bolton, who is in league with the Lannisters. Together they planned the Red Wedding. The Karstark maester is seen assisting in this plot to see Stannis dead via the Karstark-Bolton-Lannister network.

Does Stannis have his own maester with him? No, Maester Cressen dies in the ACOK Prologue, and his replacement, Pylos, is not mentioned as having accompanied Stannis North. Stannis is far from the influence of the Citadel and has publicly declared his new faith in R'hllor, something for the Citadel/general Westerosi hegemony to worry about, and now we have a maester helping to plot against him...

Once more, it's possible that said maester is simply acting of his own volitions & values. Conveniently in service to House Lannister which currently holds power. However, he's not the only Northern maester to have conflicting loyalties South:

[Wyman Manderly, Lord of White Harbor:] If Stannis wonders that my letters say so little, it is because I dare not even trust my maester. Theomore is all head and no heart. You heard him in my hall. Maesters are supposed to put aside old loyalties when they don their chains, but I cannot forget that Theomore was born a Lannister of Lannisport and claims some distant kinship to the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. Foes and false friends are all around me, Lord Davos.

—ADWD, Davos IV

Something to consider.

THIRD: ADDRESSING THE FERTILITY OF TARGARYEN WOMEN

Let's take it back for a minute. I'm separating this section because a whole bunch of it comes from AWOIAF/Fire & Blood and I know not everyone is super familiar with those, so I'm taking time to explain it fully. A big facet of the Maester Conspiracy has to do with magic and dragons ergo House Targaryen. We have covered the Aerys/Pycelle, Maester Aemon, and Daenerys portions.

But there is a larger relevant point: The miscarriages and stillbirths of Targaryen women.

From AGOT we know that the birth of dragons is tied to blood magic, but specifically, that magic which is performed by Daenerys — a pregnant Targaryen. She has prophetic visions both asleep and awake that lead her to the final hatching of the dragons... and it's the deaths of Rhaego in her womb, Drogo by her hand, and Mirri by her order that facilitate this.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her… as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.

—AGOT, Daenerys IV

"You will not hear me scream," Mirri responded as the oil dripped from her hair and soaked her clothing. "I will," Dany said, "but it is not your screams I want, only your life. I remember what you told me. Only death can pay for life."

—AGOT, Daenerys X

So, let's posit that there is some matriarchal link between fertility, motherhood, and births... even of dragons.

The theory here is that maesters, operating under the idea that Targaryen wives's fertility was somehow related to the blood magics/births of dragons, meddled with their pregnancies to prevent said magics/births of dragons.

The reason the maesters may have suspected this? Well according to AGOT and Fire & Blood, at certain times, Targaryen women/wives experienced miscarriages of fetuses that were "monstrous." Dragonlike, some might describe them (some being me, in the following list) — so the contention that the women of House Targaryen were magically involved in literal dragon-birthing does seem possible.

The miscarriages in question:

1A) Maegor Targaryen and Alys Harroway's stillborn: a monster, with twisted limbs, a huge head, and no eyes.

1B) The hatchling born to Alyn Velaryon and Baela Targaryen's daughter Laena: the dragon that wriggled from the egg was a monstrosity, a wingless wyrm, maggot-white and blind

2A) Maegor and Jeyne Westerling's stillborn: a legless and armless creature possessed of both male and female genitalia → eventual death in childbirth

2B) Maester Aemon in AFFC Samwell IV: Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame

3A) Maegor and Elinor Costayne's stillborn: a malformed and stillborn child, an eyeless boy born with rudimentary wings

3B) In The Hedge Knight, the last dragon to ever live is described as small with unformed wings

4A) Daemon Targaryen and Laena Velaryon's stillborn: the babe was twisted and malformed, and died within the hour → eventual death in childbirth

4B) Laena's stillbirth unique because it's implied that Rhaenyra's maester, Gerardys, who arrived slightly too late, might have been able to assist in saving Laena's life following the birth — the same way he was able to save Viserys I's hand and life when other maesters couldn't. Thus, incompetence or malice on the part of the present maester might have contributed to Laena's death.

5A) Daemon and Rhaenyra Targaryen's stillborn Visenya, Rhaenyra's early labor brought on by the news of her father's death and her usurpation by Aegon II:

The princess shrieked curses all through her labor, calling down the wrath of the gods upon her half-brothers and their mother, the queen, and detailing the torments she would inflict upon them before she would let them die. She cursed the child inside her too, Mushroom tells us, clawing at her swollen belly as Maester Gerardys and her midwife tried to restrain her and shouting, “Monster, monster, get out, get out, GET OUT!” When the babe at last came forth, she proved indeed a monster: a stillborn girl, twisted and malformed, with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been, and a stubby, scaled tail.

—Fire & Blood, The Dying of the Dragons: The Blacks and the Greens

5B) Rhaenyra's usurpation by Aegon II is a parallel to the usurpation of the Amethyst Empress by her younger brother the Bloodstone Emperor, in the ancient Great Empire of the Dawn. This is said to have been what caused the first Long Night to occur and indeed, after Rhaenyra, we see the dragons die out, magic disappear, summers grow short, and winter grow long.

When the daughter of the Opal Emperor succeeded him as the Amethyst Empress, her envious younger brother cast her down and slew her, proclaiming himself the Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror. [...] In the annals of the Further East, it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night.

—AWOIAF, The Bones and Beyond: Yi Ti

6) Naerys Targaryen's multiple miscarriages/stillbirths vs. 2 living children → eventual death in childbirth

7) Rhaella Targaryen's 8 miscarriages/stillbirths/child deaths vs. 3 living children → eventual death in childbirth

8) Daenerys with Rhaego:

"Monstrous," Mirri Maz Duur finished for him. The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. "Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years." Darkness, Dany thought. The terrible darkness sweeping up behind to devour her. If she looked back she was lost. "My son was alive and strong when Ser Jorah carried me into this tent," she said. "I could feel him kicking, fighting to be born."

—AGOT, Daenerys IX

With these in mind, we can ask: why would anyone think these similar descriptions have anything to do with outside interference? Couldn't it just be that Targaryen babies are weird, it's the blood magic and the incest, nothing to see here?

The thing is that all of Maegor's stillborn children (3/6 examples of dragonesque children) were poisoned, by Tyanna of the Tower. Rhaego was also poisoned, by Mirri Maaz Duur's blood magic.

So 4/6 of these hybrid children were born under the influence of some sort of darker magic. This still leaves Rhaenyra and Laena's respective draconic stillbirths. It opens the question of whether poison was involved in those, too. In my personal opinion, it might also intend to raise a question mark on the matrilineage of Targaryen women who birthed children & brought about dragons — a private theory but raised by the idea of Rhaego's description and the concept of him being "dead for years."

That said, the two serious cases I think we can look into here are Naerys and Rhaella's serial miscarriages/stillbirths/child deaths.

Both these women suffered from frail health and abusive circumstances. Naerys was extremely slight and small of stature, it's possible that she simply struggled with the physical toll of pregnancies. Rhaella gave birth for the first time under traumatic circumstances (the burning of Summerhall and deaths of her family) when she was 14 years old, totally reasonable that she'd be permanently affected by that. In fact, these are two women for whom it would not be suspicious should they experience fertility issues. So if there were ever two people who you could get away with pulling this on...

The reasons to consider each more closely —

NAERYS TARGARYEN: Naerys's successful birth of Daeron (later Daeron II) happened the same year the last dragon died. After this, King Aegon III The Dragonbane started attempting to hatch new dragons whereas before he was extremely resistant to dragon-anything. Naerys's miscarriages and stillbirths begin only after attempts to hatch dragons commence — a likely time, if a link between her fertility and future dragons was suspected by bad actors. Her only other living child Daenerys Lateborn is born 17 years later, and in fact is one of a set of twins, the other child dying at birth. So, it's possible that pregnancy was also tampered with, and simply did not succeed on both twins

Counterpoint One: Naerys was not a healthy or robust person, nor did she desire to carry children. They were forced on her by her purposely cruel brother-husband Aegon IV. It's possible she was not poisoned and simply suffered from miscarriages/stillbirths naturally.

Counterpoint Two: Naerys was married to a man who had many mistresses, lovers, bastards, and grasping councilors. It's possible that she was poisoned, but not by maesters, rather by those who sought to gain power by opening up the position of Queen.

RHAELLA TARGARYEN: Aerys and Rhaella were married to one another based on a prophecy by the Ghost of High Heart that through them, The Prince/Princess That Was Promised would be born.

"Why did they wed if they did not love each other?" "Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line."

—ADWD, Daenerys IV

"Maester Aemon believed that Daenerys Targaryen was the fulfillment of a prophecy... her, not Stannis, nor Prince Rhaegar, nor the princeling whose head was dashed against the wall." "Born amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. I know the prophecy." Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor.

—AFFC, Samwell V

Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daeron's dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid

—The Hedge Knight

The prophecy is known to at least one maester of the Citadel... seems realistic that it would be known to multiple! The prophecy in question regards the birth of the Prince/Princess That Was Promised, the herald who will bring dragons back into the world, and the culmination of House Targaryen. When Rhaella became pregnant and was close to her due date, the King Aegon V had all the Targaryens gather in Summerhall where he intended to attempt to hatch seven dragon eggs (perhaps he also had some suspicion about the connection between the blood magic needed to hatch dragons and Rhaella's imminent potentially prophesized birth?)

… the blood of the dragon gathered in one … … seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king’s own septon had warned … … pyromancers … … wildfire … … ames grew out of control … towering … burned so hot that … … died, but for the valor of the Lord Comman …

—AWOIAF, The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V

This is what remains of the story of Summerhall. Who wrote this note? Maester Corso, of course. Where did he send this letter? The Citadel. Woof. Innocuous on it's own but for the purpose of this post, in line with the idea that the Citadel was keeping a close eye on all things dragon.

The Maester Conspiracy would ask: who is to say what really went wrong at Summerhall? All we know is that Rhaella gave birth there amidst the chaos and then she didn't give birth to a child who lived past a year for 17 years to come. Miscarriages, stillbirths, child deaths... she had them all. Aerys's paranoia grew and grew until Rhaella was completely isolated. It was under these conditions of extreme scrutiny that Rhaella finally had Viserys, and Viserys lived, and then Daenerys was born while isolated on Dragonstone & raised far from maester's influence following.

Here's the point that sticks out though:

"Lannisport was the end of our voyage," Prince Oberyn went on, as Ser Arron Qorgyle helped him into a padded leather tunic and began lacing it up the back. "Were you aware that our mothers knew each other of old?" "They had been at court together as girls, I seem to recall. Companions to Princess Rhaella?"

"Just so. It was my belief that the mothers had cooked up this plot between them.

—ASOS, Tyrion X

The Unnamed Princess of Dorne and Joanna Lannister were both companions to Princess Rhaella. The exact timeline is unclear but it's definite that the Unnamed Princess was older than the other two. She'd given birth to Doran over a decade before Rhaegar was born, although Rhaella was a very young mother (13 or 14). However, they were close enough to cook up 'plots.' It seems realistic that the Unnamed Princess was present earlier in Rhaella's life while Joanna came about later. GRRM is not trustworthy with ages and timelines anyway, so that's a supposition.

All three of these women had the same experience: a firstborn who lived, followed by a long expanse of fertility issues, followed by another successful birth (or more).

"I was the oldest," the prince said, "and yet I am the last. After Mors and Olyvar died in their cradles, I gave up hope of brothers. I was nine when Elia came, a squire in service at Salt Shore. When the raven arrived with word that my mother had been brought to bed a month too soon, I was old enough to understand that meant the child would not live. Even when Lord Gargalen told me that I had a sister, I assured him that she must shortly die. Yet she lived, by the Mother's mercy. And a year later Oberyn arrived, squalling and kicking.

—AFFC, The Captain of the Guard

Doran was nine before his mother had another successful birth after two child deaths. Her manner of death is unknown. Tyrion is likewise nine years younger than Jaime & Cersei. Joanna Lannister's possible fertility issues in the in-between are unknown, but she died in childbirth. Viserys is 17 years younger than Rhaegar (similar to how Daenerys Lateborn is 17 years younger than Daeron II). Rhaella Targaryen died in childbirth. If all three of these women who canonically shared time, meals, chambers, etc together suffered from similar infertility issues and timelines, with Rhaella being the worst affected, can we theorize that there might have been issues of poison at play?

Pycelle was the Grand Maester at the time — we know he was involved in other plots with poison at the center (Robert Baratheon and Jon Arryn most notably), and we also know that Tywin Lannister married for love. So despite his loyalty to Tywin, couldn't it be that Pycelle never expected Tywin to match with his cousin of few advantages, and that Joanna's struggles were perhaps an unintended, unforeseen consequence?

Could this be the additional backstory regarding Pycelle and Tywin that GRRM is referencing?

Counterpoint One: If the maesters were aware of the prophecy and Rhaegar fulfilled it, they shouldn't have continued with Rhaella

Counterpoint Two: The timeline for the various births of Rhaella, Joanna, and Unnamed Princess are all over the place. It's possible that GRRM didn't simply flub the timeline and actually there is no connection between these three women's similar fertility issues.

Counterpoint Three: Rhaella was traumatized from her young birth and Summerhall's tragedy, her fertility issues arose naturally.

All possibilities.

FOURTH: IS ALL OF THIS GOING TO BITE THE CITADEL IN THE ASS SOMEHOW? WHY ARE THEY EVEN DOING THIS? (SPECULATION)

My theory as to the roots of the Maester Conspiracy is threefold:

ONE: The Citadel, like all institutions of higher academia, is not politically neutral and is invested in specific visions for the future. They inherently seek to preserve the status quo which allows them to function and expand their own influence. They are as liable to corruption as any of the other institutions we see (monarchy, knighthood, the Faith, the Night's Watch, the Kingsguard, etc.) and while maesters do not act as one, they do act as an informal web pushing forth specific beliefs and ideals.

TWO: Not all maesters are created equal. Archmaesters and other such influential members of the Citadel are closer to certain truths than others, it's in the handchosen placement of maesters in the ears of specific lords/political players that we see a larger plan.

THREE: The Citadel is aware of prophecies foretelling a second Long Night to come. To combat this, they have long sought to destroy one of the heralds of said disaster, that being dragons. To put it simply: All magic is from the same root / all magic must be destroyed.

That's my theory.

Now, is this going to bite them in the ass? Hahaha of course!

ONE: The Faceless Men are infiltrating the Citadel due to some plan we are not yet privy to. The AFFC Prologue shows us the novice Pate being body snatched by an FM implied to the Jaqen H'ghar — what is he after, though? Potentially the extremely rare book titled The Death of Dragons that is solely kept in some locked basement of the Citadel... which he just acquired a key for?

TWO: Euron Greyjoy is coming to sack Oldtown, and he is obsessed with dragons/arcane arts/doing experiments with pregnant women (back to my point about connecting dragon births and human fertility)... but above all, he is not nice.

THREE: Daenerys Targaryen is coming to Westeros, and she's the Mother of Dragons. The Dragons are here. By focusing on dragons, it's possible the maesters have lost sight of the bigger picture — the incoming Long Night, wights, and Battle for the Dawn.

That was such a long post I fear and way beyond the question you asked. I appreciate it anyway, seeing as I've wanted to get all these thoughts out for a while to organize what I think & what the text itself points to.

To answer your question: Yes I do think the Maester Conspiracy is a real thing! I believe it's been set up mainly insofar as it will guide Samwell Tarly's POVs in Oldtown, the upcoming Euron Greyjoy plotlines, and potentially Arya due to the Faceless Men connect.

Eventually it will bring Daenerys Targaryen and Jon Snow into play (the latter likely due to the Arya and Sam of it all, which winks to the importance of Jon now having an Oldtown-bred squire in Satin), probably in line with the concept of the Second Dance George has been teasing us about.

Just how it will all play out, though, I couldn't say. We shall have to see. Drink water. Manifest TWOW. Speaking of manifesting...

[twoiafart]

VAEGON AND DAELLA Artwork by MV Renju

In 78 AC, Vaegon’s despairing parents asked Grand Maester Elysar if the prince might flourish at the Citadel, and the Grand Maester agreed that he had the makings of an archmaester. Vaegon was said to have almost smiled when he was informed that he was going to Oldtown. But Daella still needed a husband—and this was easier said than done. After her first flowering, Daella’s delicate beauty became even more striking, but she remained shy and terrified by life. At thirteen, she was sent to Driftmark to spend time with Corlys Velaryon, but she complained he cared more for his ships than for her. At fourteen, four squires kept company with her, but she decided she hated them all. At fifteen, she seemed enamored of Royce Blackwood, the heir to Raventree, but was horrified to learn he kept the old gods and could not countenance marrying him if it meant she would go to hell.

By the dawn of 80 AC, King Jaehaerys had had enough. He declared that Daella must marry by the end of the year, or else join the silent sisters. Alysanne found three suitors for her: the powerful, boisterous Boremund Baratheon; the handsome and charming Ser Tymond Lannister, the heir to Casterly Rock; and the aged but affable Rodrik Arryn, Lord of the Eyrie, Protector of the Vale, lord justiciar, and master of laws. Lord Arryn was twenty years older than Daella and was already a widower with four children by his first wife. Yet to everyone’s surprise, Daella chose him because he was good and wise like her father, and she could be a mother to his children. The wedding took place before the year ended in the sept at Dragonstone, because large crowds were another thing that the princess feared. Lord Rodrik quit his offices at court to take his new bride to the Vale.

[sayruq]

I have a question about F&B that will probably come across as dumb but.... I don't know. Now I hate the Targs as much as anyone else and that includes Jaehaerys. The way he treated his wife and daughters were heinous. However people say he and Alysanne were horrible for forcing Daella to marry an old man. But iirc didn't they offer her three options of suitors and she's the one who CHOSE Rodrik Arryn because he was nice to her. So how was that forcing her to marry?

Is it really a choice if she was being forced to get married because her father refused to have any patience for her? It was either get married or join the Silent Sisters which means Daella didn't really have a choice.

It's like when Sansa was dragged to the Sept and Tyrion offered to give her choice between him and Lancel, at the end of the day Sansa would have to marry a Lannister whether she wanted it or not.

Even Alysanne blamed Jaehaerys for Daella's death

[asoiafreadthru]

A Game of Thrones, Catelyn III

“Robb, close the door.”

He looked at her strangely, but did as she told him.

“What I am about to tell you must not leave this room,” she told them. “I want your oaths on that.

“If even part of what I suspect is true, Ned and my girls have ridden into deadly danger, and a word in the wrong ears could mean their lives.”

“Lord Eddard is a second father to me,” said Theon Greyjoy. “I do so swear.”

“You have my oath,” Maester Luwin said.

“And mine, my lady,” echoed Ser Rodrik.

She looked at her son. “And you, Robb?”

He nodded his consent.

“My sister Lysa believes the Lannisters murdered her husband, Lord Arryn, the Hand of the King,” Catelyn told them.

“It comes to me that Jaime Lannister did not join the hunt the day Bran fell. He remained here in the castle.”

The room was deathly quiet.

“I do not think Bran fell from that tower,” she said into the stillness. “I think he was thrown.”

[dyannawynnedayne]

Terros' Next Top DILF: Round 1

Hello Friends and welcome to our next poll, Terros' Next Top DILF!

Here we will vote to determine who is, in fact, the hottest dilf in all of Terros/Planetos/etc.

As you'll be able to tell, the definition of DILF got looser as I worked to reach the coveted 64. So, the actual definition of father may be looser, and they may be younger than what we would consider a 'DILF' but they all are, at a minimum, someone who is considered a father by someone. The seed here was based off AO3 stats (ie, I searched every character and ordered them based on how many fics they featured in, then seeded from that).

Poll will probably open tomorrow, June 26th. Unsure on what time for now!

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to drop in. <3

Much love,

August

Erik Ironmaker vs. Eddard Stark

Alaric Stark vs. Corlys Velaryon

Samwell Tarly vs. Unwin Peake

Cregan Stark vs. Daemon I Blackfyre

Greatjon Umber vs. Bronze Yohn Royce

Jon Connington vs. Orys Baratheon

Jason Mallister vs. Rickard Stark

Garth Greenhand vs. Rhaegar Targaryen

Aenys Frey vs. Robert Baratheon

Laenor Velaryon vs. Maron Nymeros Martell

Styr of Thenn vs. Tormund Giantsbane

Duncan the Tall vs. Kevan Lannister

Dalton Greyjoy vs. Wyman Manderly

Myles Toyne vs. Steffon Baratheon

Harwin Strong vs. Tygett Lannister

Davos Seaworth vs. Stevron Frey

Tywin Lannister vs. Vickon Greyjoy

Harrold Hardyng vs. Paxter Redwyne

Lothar Frey vs. Viserys I Targaryen

Maester Cressen vs. Hoster Tully

Aegon V Targaryen vs. Jeor Mormont

Doran Nymeros Martell vs. Harren the Black

Borros Baratheon vs. Mace Tyrell

Gerold Lannister vs. Oberyn Nymeros Martell

Stannis Baratheon vs. Orton Merryweather

Howland Reed vs. Tytos Blackwood

Roose Bolton vs. Jonos Bracken

Mance Rayder vs. Rodrik Cassel

Balon Greyjoy vs. Randyll Tarly

Otto Hightower vs. Rogar Baratheon

Selwyn Tarth vs. Robett Glover

Daemon Targaryen vs. Jon Arryn

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Why were both Viserys and Daemon married into the Vale? Isn’t it kind of weird? Shouldn’t they be married in separate locations? Isn’t this redundant?

It does seem weird taken out of context, but I think TPATQ gives enough context for Viserys/Aemma. In 92AC, Jaehaerys I named his son Baelon his heir over his granddaughter Rhaenys after the death of her father, causing Alysanne to separate from him for two years. That meant that Viserys was second in line for the throne, according to the king. A year later in 93AC, Viserys and Aemma were married, likely under the orders of Jaehaerys (Alysanne usually handled matters of marriage but she was absent); while Jaehaerys and Alysanne had 9 children live past infancy, they only had 4 living grandchildren (not counting Saera’s kids). Viserys would need to marry quickly and get an heir to secure the line of succession. Obviously Targaryens were known for their incestuous marriages, and as Viserys had no sister, the closest Targaryen-blooded bride was his first cousin Aemma Arryn, the daughter of Princess Daella. The marriage was a contrast with Rhaenys who married “outside” the family (to someone with no close Targ ancestry, though still a Valyrian), and in fact Aemma’s lineage was given as a reason to prefer Rhaenyra over Aegon II. The problem is that they wed when Aemma was 11 and Viserys 16, which lead to a consummation at 13, a string of nearly back-to-back pregnancies, and an early death at 22. Jaehaerys I didn’t care that Daella was too young to be wed to Rodrik Arryn, and clearly didn’t care if that was the case for her daughter.

With Rhea/Daemon, it’s a little less understandable, especially since we know that Alysanne arranged the marriage in 97AC when she was a Rhaenys supporter. However, Daemon is a younger son not expected to inherit anything, and in real life as well as ASOIAF (sometimes; like Tyrek/Ermesande Hayford, Tyrion/Sansa, Lancel/Ami), those sons are wed to heiresses so they have lands/income they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten (as well as an attempt to claim those lands for their house, as with the Lannisters). House Royce of Runestone seems to be the second most powerful house of the Vale, so it should’ve provided Daemon with a chance to learn to govern lands/people if he’d been at all interested in ruling. The marriage took place in 97AC, when Daemon was 16 and the year Rhaenyra was born, so it’s possible he was already restless and coveting the throne, and that was Alysanne’s way of getting him out of the capital. There’s an outside shot that, as a consort to a ruling lady, Alysanne might’ve thought Daemon might support Rhaenys because doing otherwise might call Rhea’s claim to Runestone into question (that was the logic for Jeyne Arryn supporting Rhaenyra anyway) and thus most of his hard power. Maybe you’re right and marrying the second son to a Vale heiress when his brother already wed a Vale lady is politically redundant, but maybe that was the point, since Alysanne to the end still insisted Rhaenys+children were cheated of their inheritance, and Daemon/Rhea could’ve been a counter to Viserys’ claim.

Thanks for the ask.

[tbtgtr-incorrectquotes]

Do we know the gender of all of Naerys's canon kids??

Yup, 3 boys, 2 girls

1. Redacted

2. Redacted

3. Tommen

4. Daella

5. Rodrik

[naerys-arryn]

Lady Naerys Arryn of House Lannister, Lady of Widow’s Town, The Great Sun, Twin to Dead Queen Aemma Arryn, Mother to ---, Cerenna, Tommen, Daella and Rodrik.

“I’ve aged, Rhaenyra. Not as I dreamed with your mother by my side, but nonetheless time passes for me. I’m no longer eleven and watching a wedding, I’m thirty and witnessing another just as unsuited.”

[waitingforwinterwinds]

Game of Thrones - 29 SANSA II (pages 284-294)

Sansa and Jeyne go to the Hands tourney, it goes splendidly, and absolutely nothing goes horribly wrong. Honest. Meanwhile the reader wonder if a Read More line might be a good idea on this one.

-

The seven knights of the Kingsguard took the field, all but Jaime Lannister in scaled armor the color of milk, their cloaks as white as fresh-fallen snow. Ser Jaime wore the white cloak as well, but underneath it he was shining gold from head to foot, with a lion's-head helm and a golden sword.

This is neither subtle nor foreshadowing, but a bold statement that Jaime considers himself a Lannister first and foremost, and a Kingsguard as an afterthought. His duty is not to the crown, it's to his family.

Sansa remembered Lord Yohn Royce, who guested at Winterfell two years before. "His armor is bronze, thousands and thousands of years old, engraved with magic runes that ward him against harm," she whispered to Jeyne.

Lookit my cute little nerd, dropping the lore. I would love to know if it's genuinely enchanted, or if it's just superstition, because both exist in this world.

"Jory looks like a beggar among these others," Speta Mordane sniffed when he appeared. Sansa could only agree. Jory's armor was blue-grey plate without device or ornament, and a thing grey cloak hung from his shoulders like a soiled rag. Yet he acquitted himself well, unhorsing Horas Redwyne in his first joust and one of the Freys in his second. In his third match, he rode three passes at a freerider named Lothor Brune whose armor was as drab as his own.

Whoo! Go Jory!!! But seriously ladies, if you didn't want him to look like a 'slob' maybe you could have used your time prior to the tourney to get him a new cloak, or add some nice embroidery to his current one, or a little something to brighten up his armour?

A dozen times Jeyne and Sansa cried out in unison as riders crashed together, lances exploding splinters while the commons screamed for their favorites. Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. ... The youth fell not ten feet from where Sansa was seated. The point of Ser Gregor's lance had snapped off in his neck, and his life's blood flowed out in slow pulses, each weaker than the one before. His armor was shiny new; a bright streak of fire ran down his outstretched arm as the steel caught the light. Then the sun went behind a cloud, and it was gone. His cloak was blue, th color of the sky on a clear summer's day, trimmed with a border of crescent moons, but as his blood seeped into it, the cloth darkened and the moons turned red, one by one. Jeyne Poole wept so hysterically that Speta Mordane finally took her away to regain her composure, but Sansa sat with her hands folded in her lap, watching with strange fascination. She had never seen a man die before. She ought to be crying too, she thought, but the tears would not come. Perhaps she had used up all her tears for Lady and Bran. It would be different if it had been Jory or Ser Rodrik or Father, she told herself. The young knight in the blue cloak was nothing to her, some stranger from the Vale of Arryn whose name she had forgotten as soon as she heard it. And now the world would forget his name too, Sansa realized; there would be no songs sung for him. That was sad.

Sorry, not to reiterate the whole damn chapter but, I'm going to say something that might be even more controversial than accidentally vibing Sansa as mildly autistic the other day. (Apparently someone blocked me over that???)

This reads two possible ways to me. I am leaning towards the second one, ngl.

1: Sansa has a personality disorder, not necessarily autism, but one of the wonky emotional range ones, she literally cannot muster up the emotions for people she doesn't know. (And I mean this in a degree more intense than the average person, because for many people, they won't care about strangers until given a reason or emotional connection.)

2: Sansa is disassociating right now, she is having the other response to being traumatized, which is for parts of the mind to peace the hell out. This is deeply concerning, especially the way it goes from childish "you might be scared, but I'm not scared look how not scared I am" rationalizing that you find in kids who sneak watch scary movies they're too young for over the non-lethal violence, to the awareness that she should feel something, but she can't. Because her mind is protecting itself by basically shutting down her empathy at this point, to the point where she 'almost forgot about Jeyne.'

When Sansa finally looked up, a man was standing over her, staring. ... He had grey-green eyes that did not smile when his mouth did. "You have the Tully look." "I'm Sansa Stark," she said, ill at ease. ... "You have her hair." His fingers brushed against her cheek as he stroked one auburn lock. Quite abruptly he turned and walked away.

BAD TOUCH!!!!!!!! I'mma need a tazer and a ride-on mower to deal with this.

When Prince Joffrey seated himself to her right, she felt her throat tighten. He had not spoken a word to her since the awful thing had happened, and she had not dared speak to him. At first she thought she hated him for what they'd done to Lady, but after Sansa had wept her eyes dry, she told herself that it had not been Joffrey's doing, not truly. The queen had done it; she was the one to hate, her and Arya. Nothing bad would have happened except for Arya. She could not hate Joffrey tonight, he was too beautiful to hate. ... Sansa looked at him and trembled, afraid that he might ignore her or, worse, turn hateful again and send her weeping from the table.

Ah, here we go. Some very nice rationalizing of her abusers' actions and redirecting negative feelings onto other people like Arya. "It's fine that he's like this, that he did this, that he made me feel like that, it's fine because at least he's not her, she's so much worse. no, really she is, my lot isn't so bad." She knows he's got that bad in him, but like so many, she's being lulled by the brief kind version, the one that's sorry he did whatever the latest bad thing he did is. He'll be better from now on, he'll change, no not like last time, for real this time.

The servants kept the cups filled all night, yet afterwards Sansa could not recall ever tasting the wine. ... [this feast sounds amazing and it's making me so hungry] ... Later came sweetbreads and pigeon pie and baked apples fragrant with cinnamon and lemon cakes frosted in sugar, but by then Sansa was so stuffed she could not manage more than two little lemon cakes, as much as she loved them. She was wondering whether she might attempt a third when the king began to shout.

Oh good, Joffrey's getting Sansa drunk again. Creep. 🍋=🥛

~"Do you need someone to walk you home? I mean I got you drunk but I've got actual important things to care about, just tell me if I need to call an uber so I can keep pretending to be a Nice Guy TM."~

What if we pushed Joffrey down a long outdoor staircase after some rain? It would look like an accident.

And then the glitz and glamour comes off like Cinderella's pumpkin at midnight, party's over. The hound gets so freaking intense on the walk back to her rooms, like damn. He literally threatened to kill her if she ever told anyone how he got that scar.

[reignfms]

a hush has fallen over highgarden as day one of the joust commences. eyes are glued to the jousters as they file into the arena, waiting in buzzing anticipation to see who will be asked for their favor ;  and who will be rejected for another.  

above the cut is the quick listing of who went against who, below the cut are details on favors + match insights if applicable. bolded names are the winners who advance to day two.

1. grand maester kaina upcliff vs. kai rogare

2. prince doran martell vs. lord corlys velaryon

3. lord andar royce vs. prince consort sunwoo stark

4. lord cemal tyrell vs. lord qhorin drumm

5. prince abraxas martell vs. lady betha tully

6. king harrion stark vs. prince jon stark

7. victario of lys vs. ser tharon redsmith

8. lord timur blacktyde vs. liege vika ryswell

9. daeron of braavos vs. lady aranya baratheon 

10. lady aaliyah mormont vs. lord vorian dayne

11. lord connin chyttering vs. lord osric arryn

12. lord darnell arryn vs. lady myriah yronwood

13. lord sebastian manderly vs. prince rhaegar targaryen

14. lord maron harlaw vs. prince ryon martell

15. lord rodrik arryn vs. lord brynden tully

16. prince cregan stark vs. lady lusia botley

match one

grand maester kaina upcliff rides against kai rogare

grand maester kaina upcliff requests the favor of their son, theomore pyke, which is given as the child leans down to hand it to his mother happily. not much is known about the elusive cousin of the tarths, aside from his large stature. he requests the favor of his cousin, lady calla tarth, which is given with warm wishes for his success. murmurs begin in the crowd as kai’s lance pierces the armor of the upcliff, sending them off of their horse. the rogare advances to round two after helping her up.

match two

prince doran martell rides against lord corlys velaryon

lord velaryon rides into the tourney with fanfare, bowing from his horse before trotting towards the crowd, requesting the favor of the ruling lady of highgarden herself, lady saadet tyrell. a whispering of the crowd begins, spectators wondering if it is the beginning of a courtship  — opinion changing when the ruling lady rolls her eyes, but offers the favor nonetheless. the prince of dorne’s request is less showy, murmured words only lord mavrick lannister can make out. his favor is offered with no upset, those close enough to see a soft caress between the two of them. the ego of the velaryon lord becomes his downfall, lance missing the martell entire while doran’s lance lands squarely in the middle of corlys’ chest for doran to advance to round two. 

match three

lord andar royce rides against lord sunwoo lannister

it is to no one’s surprise that the favor of lady guinevere lannister is sought out from her brother, handed over easily with well wishes. lord andar royce requests the favor of no one, riding into the arena and immediately taking his place. the crack of their lances shatters the air, but lord royce’s lance barely grazes prince sunwoo’s armor, a true hit to his own. prince sunwoo advances to the next round.  

match four

lord cemal tyrell rides against lord qhorin drumm

the favor requested of his long time betrothed, lady betha tully, is rejected to the shock of onlookers. gasps shock the crowd into silence as the slight against cemal, and their hosting family, has been put on display for all to see. the lord seems nonplussed, riding to his twin, emira, to request hers which is given with a roll of her eyes. lord qhorin’s request to lord lukas harlaw is quite the opposite, a smacking kiss to the islander’s cheek as it is handed over with ease. there is an expectation of a homefield advantage, that is quickly proven otherwise. qhorin is successful in knocking cemal from his horse, advancing to round two. perhaps it is the rejected favor that diminishes his luck.

match five

prince abraxas martell rides against lady betha tully

prince abraxas requests the favor of his wife, princess sharra martell. it is offered with a kiss, and wishes of luck as he rides to his starting point. lady betha enters the arena to still stunned silence, requesting the favor of none  — luck seemingly not on their side as abraxas knocks her from her horse with ease to advance to the second round. one can only think that it may be karma for insulting their hosts that the lady tully didn’t stand a chance.

match six

king harrion stark rides against prince jon stark

it is a match that moves the onlookers to the edge of their seats, wanting to see which stark would best the other. king harrion stark requests the favor of his cousin, lady thalina tully, mutterings rumbling of his divorce as roslin’s lack of presence is noted. prince jon stark eyes search the crowd, horse moving over lady dovasary dayne to request her favor. shocked rumbles begin when the words “ i didn’t think you had the gumption” is heard, helmet removed for the pair to share a kiss before the favor is turned over. jon is announced as victorious, advancing to the second round.

match seven

victario of lys rides against ser tharon redsmith

the sworn shield of the targaryen princess enters the arena, many expecting a repeat performance of his advancement as he had in the last tourney. what begins the tittering is the request of the favor of lady melony drumm, who looks surprised before handing it over with a blown kiss and words of him not getting hurt, as that is her job. ser tharon redsmith boldly asks of the favor of ruling lady saadet tyrell, which is rejected soundly. dramatics of the redsmith may be the reason for why his lance goes astray, with victario advancing to the next round.

match eight    

lord timur blacktyde rides against liege vika ryswell

the requested favor of princess nymeria martell by timur elicits confused murmurs, even more so when she accepts and offers it up happily. is this the beginning of a new courtship ? did the martells really approve this for their youngest child ? more chattering begins as the ruling liege of the rills requests the favor of pimchanok targaryen. the usually stoic princess offers a smile and wink along with their favor. both jousters take their place, seemingly evenly matched but the round ends in timur’s advantage for him to advance to the next round.  

match nine

daeron of braavos rides against lady aranya baratheon

 it is to the surprise of none that aranya requests the favor of her betrothed, princess rhaenys targaryen. it is accepted, handed to the baratheon before she rides to take her place. when daeron of braavos enters the arena, he requests the favor of lady melony drumm as well  — chattering starting before she offers another to him with well wishes for her friend with a grin. with previous performance, it is expected for the match to be in daeron’s favor yet aranya’s lance hits him with enough force for his horse to misstep, and the lady baraethon advances.

match ten

lady aaliyah mormont rides against vorian dayne       

neither riders choose to request a favor, it seems, though there is a startling hint of purple seen amongst his amour that is a different shade than what his sister offered earlier, suggesting that it’s not from starfall. the lack of experience is clear in this match on the mormont’s side, resulting in them unseated and landing in the sand with minor injuries. vorian advances to the next round.  

match eleven

lord connin chyttering rides against lord osric arryn

the lord from the crownlands is known for his prowess, looking towards the crowd to shyly request the favor of lady emira tyrell. it is given to him with well wishes, while osric takes his place, apparent choice of choosing not to request the favor of anyone. despite the thoughts that the match would go to connin, osric emerges victorious with a great effort and is going to move to the next round.   

match twelve

lord darnell arryn rides against lady myriah yronwood

the match begins with lady myriah beseeching the favor of lady alys karstark, the request accepted amicably as alys allow her son to give the favor to the yronwood. with whispers already started about the child being a bastard son of one of the starks, is it a an attempt to cover up the rumors swirling about torrhen’s parentage ? with the royce sitting to the side in the stands, lord darnell requests the favor or lord andar royce, which is given though with many looks of confusion. this match is another that is even, a last minute grip switch of the yronwood’s lance not aiming quite as high as needed while darnell’s aim is true, sending him to the next round.    

match thirteen

lord sebastian manderly rides against prince rhaegar targaryen

though not unusual for a guard to ask of the favor for his charge, the arena still holds their collective breaths as lord sebastian manderly asks for the favor of princess alexia stark, which is accepted with a laugh and a grin, wishes offered for luck. the prince requests the favor of his youngest sibling, princess pimchanok targaryen. the gods seem to be smiling down on the prince as after three rounds of volleying due to the skill level of both riders, prince rhaegar targaryen is who advances.     

match fourteen

lord maron harlaw rides against prince ryon martell

the ego of the harlaw is unmatched, having already been trash talking the crown prince of dorne before the match had even begun. residual tensions from dorne, no doubt, and the imprisonment of his older brother a likely source for the bad mouthing that didn’t seem to come to an end until the request for lady melony drumm’s favor is rejected with a scathing dismissal. a pivot towards princess denyse martell to request her favor is rejected as well. when ryon rides to request his wife’s favor it is given with a soft kiss, quiet instructions to knock the harlaw onto his ass which the crown prince does easily. ryon advances to the second round while maron is left to nurse his shattered esteem.   

match fifteen

lord rodrik arryn rides against lord brynden tully

as the pair had just welcomed a child now just shy of six months, there is none of the excitement that has come with previous favor requests, all nodding approvingly as rodrik asks after his wife, alicent arryn’s, favor which is given easily. murmurs begin as lord brynden enters the arena due to his sibling’s previous actions, but no favor was sought. with rodrik being the victor of the tourney in winterfell, all are surprised to seem him felled from his horse by lord brynden, who passes through to round two. 

match sixteen

prince cregan stark rides against lady lusia botley

the lady lusia botley is known for her prowess, the crowd’s pick for winning this match against cregan, despite her hailing from the islands. lusia asks after the favor of lady gisele farwynd, rejected as the ironborn turns and places a resounding kiss onto lady ferah tyrell’s lips to gasped questions of the arena that only grow louder as cregan asks after lady melina hightower’s favor, which is handed over. as with the rest of the attempts that have gone rejected, cregan’s lance send lusia off of her horse for the conclusion of jousting on day one.     

[patriciers]

CHARACTER UPDATES : ARC IV .

BELTHASAR STOUT , LORD COMMANDER OF THE NORTHERN KINGSGUARD .

belthasar returns to winterfell with the northern royal family , resuming his regular activities as lord commander and member of the small council . there , he keeps correspondence with his late wife’s family , helping jory write letters to them as well . he briefly returns to goldgrass , hearing lord jordan had taken ill . though grateful for the opportunity to see more of his mother , younger sibling , and nephew lord kieran bolton ( whose appearance at goldgrass manages to surprise him ) , he takes his leave back to winterfell the moment the old man seems to be doing better , tired of butting heads with his older siblings from the moment he passes through goldgrass’ humble gates . closer to the tournament , he also attends the wedding of northern master of ships cailin mallister and lady helaena mallister née florent , both as a guest and leader of the stark’s entourage .

OSRIC ARRYN , LORD OF THE EYRIE AND THE VALE .

comforted by familiar surroundings upon his return to the vale , osric relaxes almost instantly , just as he did after king’s landing . at the eyrie , he adjusts to officially being a man grown , now that he is no longer the latest addition to the family after more than a quarter of a century . he keeps his needling to a minimum when it comes to his brothers , and dotes on his new niece whenever permitted to , trying to be the best uncle ( and younger brother ) he can possibly be . he also begins a fling with lady aaliyah mormont while they’re at the eyrie congruently . later , his eldest brother lord rodrik arryn sends him on a tour of the vale in his stead , an assignment that , while definitely appropriate for osric , is still a new layer of responsibility he has never had before . he begins his tour by departing with ser tharon to see the rest of clan redsmith , and continues on from there . notably also visits house baelish , house donniger , and house royce ; taking extra time with the royces to keep his best friend andar royce company . he even departs for highgarden from runestone .

SERENA KARSTARK , RULING LADY OF KARHOLD .

aside from watching maika grow , keeping up with her friends and allies , and briefly hosting lady guinevere lannister , a not - so - insignificant amount of serena’s free time is spent in the glass gardens of karhold , retraining a miniature maple she brought from the south ( and passed down to her from her late lady mother ) . her overall content mood spoils , however , when she receives a raven from her nephew , lord yeongjun serrett , that he has been arranged to be married , despite knowing he and his father had an agreement stating otherwise . for the first time ever , perhaps , she doesn’t view joji as someone who had hung the stars in the sky , but as simply a man — and one who’s gone back on his word , no less . when the invitation to the tournament arrives , the thought of not attending crosses her mind, what with the prospect of traveling with an infant , and having already declined an invitation to a wedding in winterfell , but a number of factors influence her , and in the end , she agrees to attend .

TOBIAS TARTH , LORD OF EVENFALL HALL .

overwhelmed  by  the  oppressive  atmosphere  in  dorne  ,  tobias  packs  the  few  belongings  he  brought  himself  to  be  transported  back  to  evenfall  hall  before  slipping  out  the  gates  of sunspear without  a  word  to  anyone  .  he  negotiates  his  way  onto  the  first  vessel  he  can  find  ,  promising  to  help  the  crew  in  whatever  way  he  can  for  the  duration  of  their  voyage  to  earn  his  keep  .  upon  his  arrival  in  lys  ,  he  treks  between  the  free  cities  ,  accumulating  coin  by  picking  up  mercenary  work  ,  gaining  infamy  ,  and  truly  living  up  to  his  old  moniker  of  "  the  butcher  knight  .  "  but  the  toll  of  work  as  a  sellsword  gets  to  him  ,  and  for  a  moment  he  considers  settling  in  lhazar  ,  living  out  the  rest  of  his  days  as  a  shepherd  .  but  ,  as  always  ,  homesickness  creeps  up  on  him  ,  and  he  ventures  to  the  nearest  port  ,  where  he  boards  a  ship  bound  for  (  regrettably  )  king's  landing  ;  though  tobias  heads  directly  toward  evenfall  hall  the  moment  the  ship  makes  landfall  .  there  ,  he  finds  the  castle  empty  ,  and  learns  just  how  much  he's  missed  in  a  mere  six  moons  .  after  a  few  days'  rest  on  tarth  ,  tobias  journeys  to  the  reach  ,  arriving  just  after  the  eventful  second  day  of jousting with  a  heavier  guilt  on  his  shoulders  than  ever  before  .