#repeat timeline

[mayhasopinions]

what in the lgbt even was this scene (see tags for discussion)

[thedeathdeelers]

sunjae singing sudden shower in the first timeline knowing damn well it’s the last time he’ll be performing it is my roman empire.

there i said it

like

look at this

constantly looking like he’s on the brink of tears even though it’s been 15 YEARS

recalling the past, in his own world as he sings this song that is so so so personal to him for the entire world to hear one last time

LOOK. AT. THIS.

the heARTBREAK THE LONGING THE HEARTBREAAAAKKKKKKKKKK THE PURE DESPERATE ANGUISH AAAAHHHH

and then ending the performance with this sort of…empty stare. a dejected acceptance. knowing he’ll never have the Sudden Shower moment with sol again. knowing he doesn’t deserve it, and never will

it’s like his farewell to the world, to her

+ bonus:

she’s there. listening to him pour his heart out one last time. to her. and she doesn’t even know. 🥲.

and yet the song still makes her cry- the anguish in his voice. makes her cry.

[snarky-wallflower]

not me listening to Next Time again and being this close to sobbing. because, like…yeah. this song really gets the constant pain of separation that so many Hatchetfield characters go through. Paul and Emma will only connect right before it’s too late for everyone, before the universe ends. Lex and Ethan will have each other, but they’ll be separated by something beyond their control, whether by death or running to protect those they love. Tom and Becky will have loved each other long ago, lose each other, and find each other again, before tragedy. Duke will fall for Holloway each time, but she knows he’ll always have to forget her. Pete and Steph will find each other, but only after they’ve lost so much that they loved before. But they all have to believe that they’ll find each other in the next timeline, get to love each other again, if only briefly.

anyways, Hatchetfield, stop breaking my heart challenge (impossible).

[ryuusea]

sherliam week 2023 - day 1: time-loop; continuation of this au where they started as friends

thanks to sherliamweek for finally making me draw part 2 of this idea FOUR months later.

[royalarchivist]

Wilbur: Everyone give it up for Alex Quackity! Thank you.

A close-up of one of the TNTduo hugs from the Lovejoy concert :')

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

I read GRRM’s interview regarding book vs show canon and I thought the way he was approaching an adaptation of his own story, and fiction as a whole, was very interesting. I do wonder though - does the concept of having a separate show canon kind of become like a cop-out? Because in that case, any TV/film adaptation can just decide to change the plot as they see fit and go “oh, well, that’s our canon, the book is a different canon.” Doesn’t it cease to be an adaptation after a point, or at least become a loose one? In the HotD context, a lot of the changes being made I actually quite like because I can see them fitting in the canon, because there’s nothing suggesting otherwise.

But say, Sansa marrying Ramsay (or, alternatively, the moment that show was dead to me) we can say with absolute certainty did not take place and will almost definitely never take place. D&D knew that too but they went ahead with it anyway; it’s not quite like the Scarlett example where it makes no difference to the story because this change does. I feel like the whole point of adapting written words into something visual loses some of its sanctity if we just accept TV changes a whole separate canon, as opposed to simply a change made by the writers (good change or bad change is up to personal opinion).

I have followed your blog for almost a decade so I’m really curious to hear your thoughts on the subject.

GRRM's "Scarlett example" -- his question of "how many children did Scarlett O'Hara have?", because in the book Gone With the Wind she had three, one with each of her three husbands, whereas in the movie she only had one -- has been his go-to when asked about the difference between book and show canon since at least 2012. Or to quote him from 2015,

How many children did Scarlett O’Hara have? Three, in the novel. One, in the movie. None, in real life: she was a fictional character, she never existed. The show is the show, the books are the books; two different tellings of the same story.

This is IMO one of the most sensible ways for an author to look at adaptations of their work (even if I have gotten rather tired of GRRM using the Scarlett example specifically, pick something different George, we've seen it before lol). There is book canon and there is show canon. They are different parallel universes. They're separate canons because they contain changes made by the writers, and also because the very process of moving from the written word to visual media must involve some kind of change.

And this applies to all adaptations. That's why I brought up X-Men comics vs the Fox X-Men movies vs the X-Men cartoon (original 90s and 2024's '97). For example, there's 4 different versions of the Dark Phoenix Saga between those canons, at the very least. Wait, sorry lol, I forgot the Ultimate canon version. And the various in-comics alternate universe versions. And god knows when they finally bring the X-Men into the MCU they'll probably do yet another DPS there too. And that's only one of many storylines that are radically different between the various canons.

Or look at the various Interviews with the Vampire. Is the new tv show "not an adaptation" because its Claudia is a teenager rather than 5 years old as in the book or portrayed by an 11 year old as in the movie, thus resulting in extremely different relationships and a reshaped plot? (Among many other changes?) No. IWTV has book canon, movie canon, and show canon.

And I can't speak that well about Transformers since it's not a major fandom of mine, but go take a look at their various continuities if you want some more perspective about just how very far the meaning of "adaptation" can stretch.

Or hell, look at Stephen King, where among his many many many adaptations, some of which just barely resemble the original text, the only one he sued to have his name removed from was The Lawnmower Man, because they literally used an entirely different story and just slapped his title on it.

And then there's the movie Adaptation, which is a wildly meta-adaptation of the non-fiction book The Orchard Thief (it's a story about the process of adapting that book and involves a fictional version of the writer, the screenplay writer, and an entirely invented screenplay writer's twin brother)... and it was nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay for multiple film awards (and won a few times), and the original writer even said it kept to the book's themes.

Suffice it to say, HOTD has a long, long, long way to go before it could ever "cease to be an adaptation after a point". Changing the timeline to make Alicent and Rhaenyra the same age, or doing Blood & Cheese differently, do not even compare to what some book-to-visual media "loose adaptations" have done. Even GOT, as wildly terrible as their non-book storylines could be, both their changes to the text and after they had no actual text to work with, never became a "loose adaptation". Certainly it became a less than faithful adaptation -- and let's be real, it always was unfaithful for both themes and the essential elements of so many characters -- but it also always was a remarkably accurate adaptation of the whole span of Westeros (in geography and breadth of characters) and the general (not specific) book plot. (Consider previous attempts at adaptation that GRRM rejected, such as a single 2 hour movie, or eliminating Jon and Dany for being "irrelevant", or only making a Jon movie with none of the other storylines, etc.) Which is why, when GOT was different (and awful) it was such a betrayal, like a zombie or evil alien wearing the skin of your best friend or beloved child, and worse, that this twisted lookalike was the only version millions and millions of viewers ever saw and believed to be true.

But again, this just underlines what GRRM has said. "The show is the show, the books are the books." There is book canon and there is show canon. They are separate things. Parallel universes -- very close parallels, often touching in many places, but sometimes they're quite different. Sometimes the differences in adaptation enhance the themes of the original canon; sometimes the author may even consider certain adapted characters (Shae, King Viserys, Helaena) to be better than his original canon; sometimes you know there's only those tricky NDAs (and payments of lots of money) that prevent him from expressing his disappointment in more ways than dropping the Sansa TWOW preview chapter only days before the release of GOT S5. But perhaps if we're lucky, maybe one day we'll have yet another parallel canon to compare to the others.

[beneathsilverstars]

the shit siffrin said in act 5 isn't even that bad 😭 they were mean one time!! very precisely mean but like. their friends aren't that fragile. i woulda forgiven them even if they weren't going through timeloop hell. sometimes you're feeling shitty and don't know how to handle it so you fuck up and what matters is that you recognize that and do your best to take steps to prevent it from happening again!

[panicked-herb]

Some post cannon character designs and head cannons for Hiccup, Fishlegs, and Camicazi.

Bonus: Alvin the Treacherous

[montereybayaquarium]

🦦EMERGENSEA OTTER BREAK!🦦

Looking for some warm and fuzzies on this chilly Friday? Check out our brand new Sea Otter Program Timeline! Dive into 40 years of our research, rescue, rehabilitation, and conservation efforts to save these important—and otterly adorable—animals.

[fairyrona]

What's wrong? Rainbow.

Okay this post is a little of a brain vomit, because I've read so many smart posts lately and I have some thoughts that kinda tie into all of them or maybe provide some pieces.

So, let's add some maybe fresh thoughts. If somebody had already said all that, please step forth lmao

First, the Zombie Boy drawing and different/changing timelines. (and project rainbow) For For context, @willbyersabyss 's post.

S1 version mentioning the mind control experiments.

-> completely erasing that timeline/version of events by the said mind control. -> And now Will Byers has become the Zombie Boy

It's almost unbelivable how much timeline-wrongness/loops S2 hides under it's sleeve.

Trapped in an artificially created time loop / timeline.

What's wrong with Mama? Rainbow. Timeline's wrong.

Oh, what you say Nancy-in-Terry's overcoat/costume?

Murray's? But not yours?

Oh, then what if Murray's timeline?

Zombie Boy version. The one that says Will got lost in the woods. Our timeline. And then we get Lucas telling Max the truth. (Events of s1, that represent the Zombie Boy version.) But on this particular timeline-train of thoughts, he literally repeats after Nancy:

Will didn't get lost in the woods. The timeline's wrong.

And then it get's even more messy, because Max thinks this story feels derivative. This is literally us reading the s1 article. But then, why is she reacting to the s2 version like that?

And then she calls him out for lying. We get told multiple times, that Lucas is not telling the true version of events.

Friends don't lie. Never ever. No matter what. Is that right? Then how do you explain this?

Out of order. The timeline is wrong. Out of order.

Friends don't lie. Never ever. No matter what. Is that right? Then how do you explain this?

Now, lets go back a little. And add some MKUltra.

What's wrong with mama? Rainbow. Timeline's wrong. Out of order.

I don't think I've seen anyone mention the fact that we've got not 1, not 2, but at least 3 Rainbow Rooms.

terry ives' mind loop (with different colour-gradings)

Ray's, the lab ward's home in Chicagoproject nina tape-based memories project nina tape-based memories (with different colour-gradings)

While we're at HNL colour grading I wanna quickly add that Terry's sequences are a lot warmer, I'd even say the walls are different paint all together. But it could just visual clue of time passing, renovations and all.

However. It's a cool detail that while Terry's memories are warm-ish-> turn greenish just as it cuts to little Jane and Kali and then the lighting immediately becomes cold - like in Will's scenes. (And Ray's, ''true'' version is warm as well. Outside of the girls nightgowns, that are more cool-toned. and that's another mindfuckery detail, bc Ray's kids are dressed more like lab subjects than the lab subjects.) (out of order)

I wanna talk bout the middle Rainbow Room. And its possible connection to MK Ultra.

First. Light is important. Here are two posts about light's and rainbow's involvement in the experiments'.

For context, go to the two @conflictofthemind 's posts.

breathe. sunflower. rainbow. three to the right, four to the left. four-fifty. breathe.

breathe. (He isn't breathing!)

sunflower. (follows the light. Joyce to find Will, El to talk to Terry etc. Will's house being all lit up in the pilot. AND the shed. And the light bulb thing. followed the light? and went back?)

rainbow.

(electromagnetic spectrum gets separated. different wavelengths reflect at a different angle. but in the end it's still just an optical illusion. it doesn't exist in a specific point in the sky.)

Rainbows are actually full circles. The antisolar point is the center of the circle. Viewers in aircraft can sometimes see these circular rainbows. (The horizon obstructs our view. It's as if the second half was under. In the Upside down.)

three to the right, four to the left. 43. 1943?

four-fifty. (Turning up the dial on the machine. 450° degree angle? it loops.

breathe. it loops.

Also, the safety vault, the rainbow and the dial is all circle shaped, and it ends on the dial being turned, as if we're actually going round on it's axis. (But in Terry's memories, and Ray's flat, we're only seeing one half of the story. S4? we get too many versions. A half circle, the rainbow going around the room, turning upside down etc.)

In that scene they are in Ray's apartament. (another light reference)

And I have a few theories. This is the writers telling us that

there are multiple versions of the event

these memories from another timeline. which i'll touch upon in a different post, to keep things in order

the event is replicating itself in different manners

Okay, now a rundown of the scene:

-> The Kali Gang bursts in. The RAY-guy begs for his life. Says he's gonna help El find Brenner.

-> Nobody believes the guy, neither the audience nor the characters, but the thing is - he was telling the truth! Now, after s4, after being introduced to yet another, COMPLETELY different rainbow room, we know that.

What also interest me is that Ray said Brenner trusts him - thus he knows Brenner is alive. Was that a secret between the bad men as well? Is Brenner being alive something more than not succumbing to injury circa s1?

The things is!! El and Kali never entered Ray's rainbow room.

And Ray telling us the truth feels like a check mark - this! This is the one!

I think either:

a) there are different versions of the event: Where the girls in the room were not El and Kali, but some other two kids, possibly actual siblings.

a.1) this only happened once - and Jane is not El.

b) The original event that keeps weaving itself into the plot his hasn't happened to Terry specifically.

c) Or there was no ''original'' but it keep's repeating to trigger something, or replicate an effect. Somebody finding two ''kids'' in a rainbow room.

This really feels more like a visual and storytelling metafor.

Same with @erikiara80 post about colour green.

Especially with what happened st Ray's place.

El and Kali on different sides of conflict, Kali being the more blood-thirsty, revenge seeking one.

-> Kali and El want to kill Ray. But Kali want it to last, to make him suffer. -> For a moment El listens but then Kali-Gang find the girls in the rainbow room -> El notices a photo frame with Ray and his daughters and doesn't kill him in the end. -> This pisses off Kali, she want to kill him, but El stops her. And they evacuate without killing the guy.

vs. El showing 'empathy'.

But we know that NINA's memories are not entirely trust-worthy... (s4 Owens: how much did you skip?)

This might be a nod to the fact that El doesn't actually relate to the strong emotions Kali is feeling about this. (That El is not Jane, Ray didn't torture her mother.)(Or that they originate from different timelines.)

Oh and, let's not forget about the staring point. The Zombie Boy articles. And how Will-Joyce-Hopper are involved in that scene sequence.

Want it or not, in this color grading, this car looks like Joyce's green pinto.

And this, also, looks like Joyce's green pinto.

Now, why am I suddenly pulling Joyce and Hopper into all of this? Because Hop says a funny line in s2.

"You wanna take him back to Chicago?'' (about Will having episodes. They also mention Boston, where another comic takes place.)

All in all, Hopper discourages Joyce from looking for help anywhere else but HNL.

But take this car parked by Ray's place, take that one line, and take the fact that Ray was not bullshitting El?

And to that let's add that the Zombie Boy event having ''Chief Hopper'' literally written all over the page? Zombie Boy is encircling him for gods sake. (in green) Pointing fingers.

(Which Chief Hopper tho haha)

oh and

I really hope this makes sense. Might not. Hopefully it does.

[kindaorangey]

ROLIN!!!!! EXPLORE ARMAND'S RELATIONSHIP TO ISLAM IN THE SHOW AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!

[karfild]

Ben hargreeves come here I will save you. I will undoom you.. I will give you a satisfying conclusion and a better more impactful death scene(s) that actually matters in the end i promise.. sparrow ben I will write you as a character and not a plot device I swear

[jurygarroth]

nobody gets it… nobody gets it… to me mcd aphmau’s story is one of breaking free from the expectations forced upon her, becoming her own person, defying the narrative, which is why it’s essential to me that she doesn’t choose any of the provided love interests for her in the end— her ending isn’t the tragedy of the doomed hero, nor is it the fairytale happily ever after‼️ she gets to win and her happiness is not what the stories would predict but it’s hers‼️

[harukapologist]

Yesterday I was having lots of 09 thoughts & mainly talked about him, so today I'll talk about why I think Haruka will not die before T3.

First off, what is the point of leaving such an engaging mystery unsolved?

If you think about it, Haruka's death would add two things in the story: drama factor to test the fans' feelings, and a chance to learn more about the extraction system. For the drama/emotional factor, it would be more useful if he stayed alive in critical condition; the fans' feelings will change and that will affect how these fans vote for Haruka and the other prisoners. In the scenario that he dies, the other prisoners' character developments will get somewhat of a push but Haruka's case will remain unsolved forever; if he stayed alive, I think that would help him and everyone develop further. e.g we would see more tension with Muu as she seems to be spending less time with him, we would see how Haruka struggles to cope with his verdict, how he interacts with the other prisoners etc it is much more compelling that way in my opinion

There is a possibility the extraction system could work on a dead body but 1. there would be no VD and VDs are important because they force the prisoner to think about and focus on their crime before extraction, 2. I don't see it being worth killing off a character, there are other more effective ways to get a reaction out of the audience and keep all of the prisoners' fates tied. And if it doesn't work, then wasn't Haruka's death pointless? It is just such a fruitless way to seal his case. Him being dead has only one outcome, which is...well, being dead. But surviving his attempt may have many outcomes: he might not attempt at all and remain unscathed, he might get in critical condition, he might be punished for attempting to escape milgram's boundaries by dying; who knows?

Not only narrative-wise is Haruka important, but also Haruka is a fan favorite, at least in JP fandom. He is well-loved, a lot of fans are intrigued by his case and killing him off without even getting close to solving his deal—which I see as one of if not the most ambiguous in the prison for many reasons—will leave a lot of fans disappointed and some may quit milgram, so the sales and audience etc will drop.

You have to keep in mind that Jackalope is biased, loves messing with us and sometimes says or implies things that are not true (e.g implying Haruka and Muu's dynamic to be romantic "lovey-dovey" when they are just friends) so you should not take anything he says—much like most of the info we are presented in milgram generally—at surface level.

Something else to be considered but which I wouldn't rely on as heavily, is that minigrams have foreshadowed things before (e.g system Amane), and Haruka has been really in the spotlight in nearly every recent minigram. I take this as a sign that he might not only survive but also play an important role in T3.

[marinersubmariner]