#reading vs listening

[cheezitbandit]

I'm learning Hindi and am working on the subtle differences between t त and th थ. And yet I'm still mildly startled to hear that Ratthi is pronounced with the light Hindi-style th थी and not a hard English-style th (these).

(If I am fucking this up please tell me, I am still learning and apparently have a lot of internal biases in mental pronunciation when I'm reading - which is so interesting to realize)

[ered]

Here’s my take on the whole audio books vs. reading:

Oral tradition of storytelling predates written ones by millennias, and honestly, which one you like is just a personal preference.

The actual difference is

when listening, you have no idea how to write characters’ names

when reading, you have no idea how to pronounce characters’ names

hope this helps!

[beachesgetpeaches]

idk if any of you have experienced the "audiobooks count as reading" arguments and discussions but to me it feel like people discussing it need to sit and think about what they're debating because the conversation is so.... stupid!??

like - yes, of course! if you consume a book by listening to it you have successfully understood the plot and bravo you can mark it as read in whichever app you use to track your read count (bcs thats what matters most to some people, the number they can brag about.. but thats a different topic altogether)

what I think we should all agree on is that LISTENING TO AUDIOBOOKS is not the same as READING PHYSICAL BOOKS (or yknow pdfs, or whichever written/typed up word).

fundamentally it is different.

you use different senses to do it.

the outcome? more or less the same.

the process? decidedly not so.

the benefits? probably similar but not same.

my best metaphor is gills vs lungs (stick w me please). both organs exist in living organisms with the goal of providing oxygen supply. both will ultimately provide oxygen thus ensuring life. HOWEVER the process of how it is done IS a bit different when compared, and an organism w lungs will die under water, as will an organism w gills if you take it to dry land. so, while they do essentially lead to the same outcome there is a difference to be made. and neither organ is necessarily superior to the other, they just work for a set number of species in a specific environment. hell p sure some organisms have adapted to get oxygen in other ways but idk enough about it to comment.

same goes for listening vs reading: fundamentally they're not the same, and conflating the meaning is:

1) stupid and useless

2) kind if risky imo because reading does imply literacy whereas listening does not

3) ridiculous because they are not the same

listening means someone else has read the words on paper, has added their tone to them (thus perhaps overriding a bit of your own personal interpretation you might have for the voice/tone of the book/characters), and now you have listened to it, and can discuss the plot and how you liked it.

reading means you yourself are looking at the words, processing them, and adding the tone according to how you are interpreting this book (or set of events, or character...). to be able to read you need to know the alphabet, which is not necessary for listening.

reading imo gives you a better insight into the flow of the writing, while listening gives you better insight into the quality of the reading (reader?) of the book.

listening might give you understanding of new phrases or words, but you might be at a loss when it comes to their spelling.

reading can have you learning new vocabulary, but pronouncing shit wrong bcs you just assume based on the spelling (and how many of us have been there?).

BOTH are very valid ways to consume books, this is something we can hopefully all agree on, and should help us to not feel the need to equate the two.

but personally, my main concern here is that reading is a step extra to listening. reading means knowing the gd letters of the alphabet, reading and literacy has been so very important to the entire human history, and trying to say that listening is the same as reading is a slippery slope.

do we then allow children to listen to books instead of reading them? what is the consequence of this? what happens when we all start simply listening to books? what about the element of reading that directly plays into imagination - thinking up voices, interpreting how things are said, things that your brain just does not do when being read to (aka when you listen to audiobooks).

and to conclude, I dont think either way of adults consuming books they want to is inherently "more worthy", and I myself cannot listen to books because my brain refuses to do so but kudos to people who do it bcs that sounds like amazing focus on your part.

I just wish people discussing this allowed more nuance instead of saying listening = reading based on their own personal ego or smth.

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

"Jason was the happy robin" this, "jason was the angry robin" that. Let's all be fully honest here Jason was the lonely robin

[skecherss]

cinematic parallels

Robin (1993) #92, Batgirl (2000) #3

[aeolianblues]

I just can’t believe we live in a world where we can witness this happening

[puppppppppy]

i feel like im not making any sense but does anyone else feel like there are stories that let u run with them and ones that spell everything out for you

[roguelioness]

Obviously no shade to anyone who's enjoying the various pre-DATV reveals but man I'm getting kind of burnt out in the hype because it feels like the book + podcast are homework that players have to do before playing the game

[ibetittering]

Realized I haven't made one of these in a while 😋

(Part 19)

[strelitzien-gewaechs]

i really like to think that the life series is about martyn and the rest of the members being stuck in a tragic death game loop while the watchers feed on their emotions

and also that etho clone #3068 is just there to do his job (read his lines, be quirky and die) :)

[gammija]

ok but am i just not listening attentively enough or was there no way to get from the audio alone that ink5oul was bitten by the tape recorder?

[necrotic-nephilim]

I started in DC by reading fanfics, but as I began to read actual comics, I started to be unable to read the actual fanfic that got me into it in the first place because it's so out of character.

But there are still some stories that I love to read because I love the found family trope so much, even if it isn't really accurate to the source material.

As a comics purist (sometimes), are there tropes that you like enough that you'll still enjoy a fic even if it's not accurate to canon?

oh my god this is SUCH a fun question. bc while i started with the comics, there were certain characters and/or character dynamics where i was exposed to the fanon before the canon (just bc it's hard to read everything when you start out just to read some fanfic) and so i've definitely experienced the fanon to canon transition. (*especially* with Jason Todd. i had only read 80s/90s stuff where he was already dead or the New-52 bc that was on-going when i got into comics and man. the fanon misunderstandings i had about him before i got frustrated and sat down to read all his pre-Flashpoint stuff were absolutely bonkers.) and aside from that, whilst i tend to prefer canon over fanon, i'm not past giving fanon its flowers for occasionally having really interesting insights. occasionally. so some of my fanon "guilty pleasure" tropes would probably be

Morally Grey Tim Drake - this is one where if you try to back it up with canon, i *will* get salty about it. of everyone in the Batfam aside from maybe Bruce and Cass, Tim has the *most* black and white morals. often his internal conflicts are routed in such an inability to compromise his moral views and it can cause him to clash with other characters. he's *very* stiff and rigid in his beliefs and is *rare* to compromise in even the smallest ways. i mean, DC has repeatedly used Tim Drake of Tomorrow/Savior/Gun Batman!Tim for a reason. it's to demonstrate that of everyone, Tim *cannot* have his morals compromised. there's no grey area for him. he's zero or a hundred, so if he tips over the edge of "too far" he tips *all the way*, and doing so is one of his worst fears, how he could go "too far" if he let himself. a couple panels out of context from Red Robin (2009) (which was a grief spiral for Tim to begin with) don't change that. now that said. if it's done *right*, i sort of love Tim being morally grey in fanfic. it takes a specific flavor for me, and it's incredibly important to include that mental spiral along with it, of him struggling to justify it. i don't have any interest in "Tim Drake is loosy goosy with Bruce's morals and has the highest kill count and no one knows teehee" bc it doesn't play with the interesting parts of making Tim morally grey, which are fracturing his psyche. but all in all, i think it's fun to put Tim in a morally grey area and i will read it in fanfic and i enjoy writing it a lot

Joker Junior!Tim Drake - i've not written it on this account (yet) but on my main ao3 account one of my biggest fics surrounds this concept. this is one of those "well *technically* it's canon but only in a specific very divorced from the comics universe and would not work at all in the main timeline" so, i categorize it as fanon in that 95% of fics exploring the concept are not doing so within the Batman Beyond universe, but the main timeline. i just love it. I'll take any excuse to whump Tim, but this concept is so fun. psychologically breaking Tim will always be my favorite pastime. there are so many ways to explore the long-term effects this could have on him, how it could affect the Batfam. i'm not a fan of it being used as a "gotcha" to Jason or Babs' trauma with the Joker to paint Tim as the Ultimate Victim, but it is fun to see how their relationships would be affected by being mutual victims of him. (i have a vague JayTim idea where TIm fully retires from being Robin after being Joker Junior and killing the Joker, making Steph Robin for most of his typical Robin era and Jason still tracks him down out of curiosity bc he wants to know what happened and all. very underbaked but i've got thoughts.)

Renegade/Apprentice of Slade!Dick Grayson - this is another one where yes, this happened *sort of* in canon, but i highly doubt most people writing Renegate!Dick have read or are actually pulling from Nightwing: Renegade. it's just an exploration fo the concept fo Dick being Slade's apprentice and i will always eat it up in any capacity. whether Dick grows up with Slade from a young age, or chooses Slade for whatever reason later in life. it's not anything that works in canon bc it compromises Dick morally (similar to the above with Tim) and therefore will always come across incredibly fanon in most fics. but i can't say i don't enjoy it. it's fun to make Dick a little morally fucked up and see what you can make him under Slade's tutelage.

Jason & Damian Meeting in the League -there's no world where i believe this could work in the canon comics. (maybe in the Young Justice cartoon i suppose, but even then i think it's iffy) i would go as far to say it's wildly unrealistic. i don't see a world where Ra's would let Jason anywhere *near* Damian, bc Jason was Talia's pet project that he didn't approve of. that all said, there's something very interesting about how they *could've* met and them potentially bonding during that timeframe. them being somewhat brotherly during this time because Jason sees Bruce in Damian and sort of latches onto the kid and Damian is full of wonder hearing real stories about Batman and Robin, then that getting violently ripped away by Jason leaving the League is fun to me. it's fun how that could affect them within the Batfam and all. it's super fanon to me, but i do not care. i will eat it up

Bad Dad Clark Kent/Good Dad Lex Luthor - i will admit as a late, i've been less and less kind to this particular fanon bc of everything i've argued with people about, *this* one seems the most pervasive as misunderstood fanon. i don't mind when fanon exists, my gripe is when ppl try to claim it's canon. and the *arguments* i've had over this with people who can never seem to cite an actual comic are... frustrating. but that said, i think there is something fun to this strictly in fanon. the duality of who you expect to accept Kon and who you expect to hurt him being flipped is just sort of fun for the occasional guilty pleasure fic. it can make Kon's internal conflict a bit more interesting. the same goes for the Jon favoritism from Clark, it's not a canon thing (and i rlly wish ppl understood how complicated the timeline of Kon and Jon is and any distance from Clark toward Kon isn't malice, it's that Kon is from a timeline that Clark does not remember in the current canon so Clark just straight up doesn't know the poor kid.) but it's sort of fun to give Kon that complex of being overlooked and forgotten sometimes. making Kon just a *bit* more Luthor than Kent will *always* appeal to me in fanfic, especially if he *knows* it's wrong but craves approval from anyone who will give it.

Good Dad Bruce Wayne - i'll die on the hill Bruce is canonically a shitty father. maybe not to the extreme some people write him as, but he's not great at it. that said, i enjoy it in fanfiction. sometimes, i just want silly fluff or hurt/comfort where Bruce finally gets it right and manages to comfort whatever Batkid is in the fic. one of my favorite fics of all time is hinged on Bruce being a good dad, so i think it's just fun to explore how good the relationships *could* be, if Bruce was slightly less of an asshole. i usually prefer him as an asshole, but there are times i want low stakes nonsense.

Gotham Rogues Having Soft Spots for Robin(s) - just about every Rogue in Gotham has done something absolutely irredeemable, and most of them don't like or care about anyone in the Batfamily. but if there's a fic where one of the Robins inexplicably is sort of close with a Rogue and they have a cute silly relationship out of it? I'll eat it up i fear. Steph and the Riddler are besties? I'll believe it. Tim and Scarecrow get along pretty well? give me ten of these. Rogues protecting Robins just hits a spot. the unexpected nature of the relationship, as well as the fact they see each other regularly, can make a lot of good fodder.

[alakuhfuckingzam]

hey vivziepop can you explain why most of the latino and black characters have ashy skin tones. why do velvette and sera and emily have grey skin when they’re clearly meant to be black. why do vaggie and carmilla look grey when they’re meant to be read as latina. don’t say it’s because vaggies an angel because lute and adam are white and they have normal skin tones. dont tell me it’s because they’re dead because lilith and saint peter have pale skin but alastor looks like a corpse five days left at sea. where are their curls. even my hair as a white passing mixed latina is curly. where are carmillas curls? vaggies?? and then when they do have curls, why do they just look like loose, styled straight hair. for all her confidence, why doesn’t velvette wear her natural hair out. for all the complicated character design in the show, why do curls and non white skin tones just not exist. im not saying you’re racist but. hey vivziepop. hey.

[aroaessidhe]

2024 reads / storygraph

Walking Practice

weird scifi horror novella

follows an alien who crash-landed on earth years ago, and spends their days hooking up with people to then eat them & gain enough strength to make it through the day

explores existing outside of the binary norm and being seen as other, deep loneliness, and desire for connection

meandering narration, interesting formatting, illustrations

[shorlinesorrows]

sometimes I run into discourse about The Odyssey vs. EPIC: The Musical and I get tired

this is why I think we need to start taking a more oral tradition approach to stories like the Odyssey tbh, and I'd argue stories in general

The original and the adaptation being different, or the characters being different, doesn't make one or the other Wrong.

EPIC isn't claiming to be a direct retelling of the Odyssey, and the Odyssey doesn't need to be put under a moral microscope just to prove that "Odysseus was a Bad Guy Actually i can't believe you like EPIC" or "The Actual moral of everything is This."

Analysis is good, but we don't have to do it to spite other people's enjoyment of a piece of art!

One of the most beautiful things about many oral traditions is that the story changes over time. It grows to fit the ideas and needs of the people it's being told to and the place it's being told in. Each storyteller remembers different details more vividly, or adds a little flair, or forgets a few words, or adds a few words, and it grows.

EPIC doesn't have to be the Odyssey, and the Odyssey doesn't have to be EPIC. Enjoy them both. Adaptations and spins off of stories aren't a bad thing in themselves, even if they're different.

Heck, the Odyssey was almost Definitely an adaptation, conglomeration, or re-telling of other stories that were told orally before it was written down. And I'd bet that it continued to evolve and change even after it was put to paper. I highly doubt The Odyssey the only version of this story there was, long before our time.

It's fine if you dislike one or the other in any adaptation! Hell knows I've absolutely despised some adaptations of media i enjoyed in the past. That's not a bad thing. But one story isn't objectively morally better or worse compared to another in adaptations.

Basically, my whole point is that both the Odyssey and EPIC are Great to me personally, but they aren't completely the same thing and that's what makes them great.

And I think people maybe need to be ok with that!

[fountainpenguin]

Things that happened in Martyn & Cleo Double Life canon:

Cleo hoping to find her soulmate and start a life with them

Cleo dumping Martyn without giving him a chance to explain his side of the story, but hearing him out when he comes to her later

Martyn watching Cleo through his spyglass and telling the audience she seems safe and happy even though he thinks it's weird she's outside at night

Martyn, after he's had time to consider how he wants to play this, spinning a story about trying to be a provider for her and Cleo explaining that she wanted him, not things

Cleo not being remotely impressed by the "I was providing" sob story, lol

Martyn calling Cleo selfish for choosing to be with Scott because she's supposed to be HIS soulmate and he wants a partner

Cleo willing to forgive Martyn if he meets them halfway

Martyn refusing to meet them halfway because he doesn't think he did anything wrong

Martyn screaming about how Cleo's building bridges with Scott but "When will she think about mending our bridges???"

Martyn explaining to Cleo that he doesn't understand why his Session 1 actions bothered them

Martyn centering his character arc and roleplay on trying to win Cleo back without actually apologizing

Cleo giving Martyn a flower and stating that if he loses it, she'll be real cross with him

Cleo chasing Martyn out of her yard because he tried to put an HOA sign on her base and she wanted to make it clear that she wasn't associated with them and their hate for his base (even though she does think his heart base is strange)

Martyn attacking Cleo after she said attacking is a form of affection to her

Cleo setting boundaries with Martyn and explaining what he can do to get her back

Cleo sighing when Scar set her up on a date with Martyn, but taking the chance to talk to him instead of walking out

Cleo genuinely wanting Martyn in her alliance

Martyn and Cleo giggling constantly when they chat

Scar asking if Martyn wanted him to play a romantic music disc for him and Cleo (and Martyn getting excited and saying yes)

Martyn offering to take Cleo's armor and weapons to the deep dark so he can enchant them and bring them back while she stays safe

Cleo gifting Martyn diamonds, expecting nothing in return but not wanting him to die from lack of a good sword

Martyn and Cleo forming a secret alliance that allows Cleo to live with Scott while being on good terms with Martyn

Martyn expressing frustration that Cleo wants to keep this alliance secret because he wants them to be public allies; Cleo softly shushes him when people approach and might overhear

Martyn telling Cleo that she's putting out a lot of mixed signals because she keeps reeling him in and then pushing him away, claiming he is very confused about where he stands with her

Martyn teasing Cleo by punching her off a cliff and accidentally killing her and feeling so bad about it that he apologizes profusely despite roleplaying as someone who refused to apologize for Session 1

Martyn and Cleo immediately threatening Bdubs together when he said hi to them while they were hanging out, sdkfj

Martyn genuinely apologizing to Pearl for dumping her after Session 1

Martyn hiding under Cleo's bed while she defends him from an enderman attack

Cleo offering to let Martyn move into her house after Etho and Joel grief his base; Martyn saying he might take her up on that

Cleo and Martyn agreeing to move out and base together at Box

Cleo trusting Martyn with the location and resources of her red life base

Martyn rushing to Cleo's aid in the deep dark and trying to turn everyone against him instead

Cleo responding to Martyn's panicked shouts for her to eat by opening her inventory to get food (and drowning because she forgot she was in water)

Cleo hanging back and letting Martyn attack Scott while she does nothing to stop him from doing so, implying as much as she likes Scott, she won't kill Martyn (and herself) for him (and/or she trusted Scott to handle himself even though he ran away while Martyn was shooting at him)

Things that did not happen:

Cleo unwilling to forgive Martyn or consider being his friend and partner

Martyn and Cleo hating each other

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk