#read Emily Wilson’s translation of the odyssey it’s so good

[wolfythewitch]

ive always been really into greek mythology (percy jackson kid ftw) and ive been really into epic the musical and looking at ordering a copy of the odyssey to read, but im dyslexic and worried about which translation to pick. the complicated sentence structures and word choices typical in older books and poetry is really hard for me to understand. tldr: what english translation(s) of the odyssey would you recommend / which ones have you read?

U h hm I think I'd recommend Emily Wilson :0 the translations I normally read are in little prose text boxes but Wilson has hers spaced out and in poetry form so that might be easier to read. If you read online, Poetry in Translation has a good version because it also highlights a bunch of the names/places in blue so you can click on them to see their definition and stuff, and also it makes good markers for like reading rest stops

[genericpuff]

Do you have any entry level recommendations for someone looking to learn a bit more about Greek mythology? I’d love to read up on it but I’m not sure how to find reputable sources and avoid Americanisation.

I mean, at the risk of sounding crass, you're likely going to run into Americanization no matter what you do because America itself was built on many cultures, especially that of Greek philosophy and storytelling.

Buuut if you mean you wanna read some actual Greek myth content that AREN'T modern American spins on classic tales, Emily Wilson is a popular choice for many people dipping their toes into translated mythology as her translations are both simplistic and concise in their language choices as well as fun in their structure to read both internally and orally (iirc her translations are done in iambic pentameter which is very familiar to anyone who's ever read Shakespeare). I've been working through her translation of The Odyssey, it's been pretty enjoyable :)

I've also heard great things about both Lattimore and Fitzgerald, the latter of whom I will be reading next after I finish Wilson's translation. That said, I haven't read either of their works yet, so take my recommendation of them with grains of salt! (I hope you enjoy them though if you check 'em out! If you beat me to it, let me know how they went!)

OH also, I know it's sorta the opposite of what you're likely looking for as it's VERY influenced by modern contexts, but thanks to another anon I recently got into Destripando la Historia which is a super fun animated Youtube series that retells the stories of various different gods from different mythologies. If you're into stuff of the goofy anime variety, you might enjoy them, it's a Spanish series but you can turn on captions to read the translations! It's super beginner-friendly, it covers a lot of different stories and myths without getting into so much detail that it's overwhelming (but gives you a good kickoff point to start with!) and the songs and animations slap, Afrodita is one of my favorites haha

Overall the biggest advice I can give you if you're trying to avoid fanfiction-y / "Americanized" retellings is just to cross-reference. If you find a retelling you really like but aren't completely sure of its legitimacy as a functional retelling, keep reading, watching, and learning more. It's a skill like any other, and the more you read, the more you'll be able to pick out what's a legitimate retelling from studied scholars vs. what's fanfiction that you don't need to take too accurately or seriously LMAO

And honestly, nothing wrong with the fanfiction stuff! Mythology, in its very nature, changes over time, it's an inevitability and many of the myths we still draw from today are often derivative in and of themselves from even older versions that pre-existed them (see: Ovid).

it's okay if your introduction to Greek myth is through derivative fanfic, stuff like Disney's Hercules and even Lore Olympus ARE fun to consume for a lot of people and make for a good entry point into learning more about the myths!

What's frustrating - and what I tend to criticize the most here - is when the fanfiction gets advertised / sold as legitimate retellings; when the fanfiction grossly misrepresents the actual mythology and yet tries to claim it as legitimate anyways which results in fanbases that are running around with completely false information claiming it as fact. If you can give the team behind Hercules credit for one thing, their rendition may not be completely accurate, BUT the folks who made it never bragged about how much smarter they were than other people about Greek myth or call themselves "folklorists" when they didn't even have any formal education/training/etc. in it cough like another creator we know cough 💀 If we want to make a comparison between LO and a Disney film in terms of how it grossly misrepresents the themes and cultural contexts of the original stories it was drawing from... Disney's Pocahontas does exactly that 💅

So if you want to avoid any "grossly" Americanized versions of Greek myth that are borderline disrespectful to the stories they're drawing from... yeah, that's usually a pretty indicative red flag LMAO

But outside of those very specific scenarios, just have fun with it, there really is no "right or wrong" way to engage with the mythology if you're simply just wanting to learn more, the beauty of it being mythology is that it's very diverse in its mediums and thus you don't have to be restricted to learning about it exclusively through academic translations or lectures. Of course, there are cultural intersections with these myths that shouldn't be ignored, we always have to treat it with care when engaging with it so that we aren't overwriting another culture's traditions or beliefs - but if you're simply wanting to learn about and entertain yourself with some amazing stories that have quite literally stood the test of time, do so however you see fit :)

[dootznbootz]

Me: Almost done listening to the Iliad on audiobook, and planning to listen to the Odyssey next

Me: Goes on youtube to find a quick summary to listen to before hand

Me: Clicks on a promising video

Video, in the first 30 seconds: Haha he cheats on his wife!

Me, in a bad mood now, even though I should have seen that coming: Never-fucking-mind, then

Yep. ;~;

Quick tip for ya: Honestly don't trust really ANY "Youtube" summary of it. Especially the ones where they are mostly trying to be "entertaining" and/or "funny" instead of educational. Also they mostly likely won't be "respectful".

I'm not saying this as a "don't trust any academic source! Historians are evil!!!" I'm saying this as a "there are very biased and very opinionated folks out there and I recommend going over multiple sources just for you to get your own opinion formed on it as well!".

I mean...Madeline Miller?

And you know what? I'll vent about how much I hate Robert Graves' takes on Greek Myth. >:(

I once got an old used book about mythology by Robert Graves and I was excited to read it! But it was genuinely just...so fucking MEAN. Insulting to stories, calling them stupid, flip-flopping on "Goodhearted" to "malicious". It seems like he was a bit more of a critic and/or thought his "headcanons" as "fact". (I say this as someone who has many headcanons and gets real silly with it. At a certain point though, YOU GOTTA STATE THE FACTSSS)

An example from it: (talking about Menelaus and Helen's marriage) "Yet their marriage was doomed to failure: years before, while sacrificing to the gods, Tyndareus had stupidly overlooked Aphrodite, who took her revenge by swearing to make all three of his daughters--Clytemnestra, Timandra, and Helen--notorious for their adultries"

Very much dislikes Odysseus, (like holy crap, even his good deeds are said mockingly) while he seems to "like" Menelaus, still calls him stupid. Seems to really like Paris?? like "Oh yeah, he needed Aphrodite to help him steal a woman who didn't love him but he's just a guyyy~"

"Athen now inspired Prylis, son of Hermes, to suggest that entry should be gained into Troy by means of a wooden horse; Epeius, son of Panopeus, a Phocian from Parnassus, volunteered to build one under Athene's supervision. Afterwards, of course, Odysseus claimed all the credit for the Stratagem"

He implies Helen and Odysseus possibly having romantics when he sneaks into Troy to steal the Palladium. Implies Odysseus made up Cassandra's rape by Lesser Ajax, as "Cassandra did not support the charge".

"Little Ajax's alleged violation of Cassandra was dismissed by reputable mythographers as an Odyssean lie"

Implies that Odysseus was only angry about Pallamedes embarrassing him, NOT BECAUSE HE NEARLY KILLED HIS BABY AND MADE HIM GO TO WAR. He implies "Icarius' daughter (Penelope)" to be another "victim" (???) of Odysseus? He also kissed poor Calypso goodbye and seems determined to never talk about how much Odysseus cares about his family. only that he wants to go home, Penelope being an afterthought.

This is a "Greek Mythology book"...and yet it's biased as fuck. :/

And ofc, people deny Odysseus being a victim.. Obviously there is sexism at play here, with the "Oh Odysseus loved it! He was getting laid!" despite being held at PigPoint and literally getting fucking raped and crying everyday. ;~; it's very disheartening and honestly disturbing.

Honestly I recommend reading/listening to at least 2 (or more) to try and get a "full picture" as just like Madeline Miller and Robert Graves, there are biases in each one. (Emily Wilson is very biased for example) Some of them while favorable toward Odysseus, also favor Circe and Calypso. Some mock Menelaus and Helen. It depends.

Like I've read 8 translations of the Odyssey (I like it :3 you don't have to be insane like me though. <3 ) and all basically say the same thing with the Goddesses as "It was not a good time. He adores Penelope."

Two or three is probably enough, and that's also if you just wanna know if there's any differences between events based on the translator. so sometimes if you wanna know the differences in wording (as some translations have very cute wording) you can just find that part in the Odyssey that you are curious to see if there are differences. :)

I hope you have fun!

[linddzz]

Non jayvik ask for once but I saw your tags about the Iliad and you're so right truly a sitcom. I started reading the emily wilson translation and I texted my friend within like two pages going "man this is a bunch of drag queens drunk at brunch trying to rip each other's wigs off they're being so petty and catty, meanwhile Achilles is calling his mom in the bathroom to complain that he hates everyone here and to please call Zeus to smite Agamemnon pls thank you mom" and personally I think it's hilarious Athena straight up grabs Achilles hair to hold him back and get him to chill and I legit cackled out loud no one's doing it like homer lol

Guys please read the Iliad it's so fucking funny. The gods are literally just having their equivalent of light hearted family sitcom squabbles and the body count is innumerable. They are having slap fights and civilizations crumble. Hera goes to seduce Zeus to distract him and he starts going "Dammmn Hera you look so good you're even hotter than- *proceeds to list ten other women he's banged*" Hermes watches Hera literally send Artemis crying to Zeus, makes eye contact with Artemis' mom, the Titan goddess Leto, and basically goes: "yeah I'm not gonna try it with you. You can just tell everyone you beat my ass. Zeus has a type of woman he likes, and it's a type I don't wanna get hit by." and he's so real for that Ares is literally just doing his job. Being a war god. On a battlefield. That everyone else is also fighting on. And every time another Olympian flies past him they're going "BOOO YOU SUCK ARES!!!" i felt so bad for him the entire time I was reading it!!! He's supposed to be there! it's a war!! Even Zeus is like "Ares you violent brutish war god get out of my sight before I kick your ass. War gods are the worst. Not you Athena. You're the bestest most wonderful daughter ever I could never stay mad at you." The only time Hades actually shows up instead of just being mentioned, it's when he's basically hitting his ceiling with a broom because his brothers are causing such a ruckus. The Iliad will have pages of heart wrenching tragedy as this war tears apart noble families and loved ones on all sides. It's senseless it's a waste and the story wants you to really feel the tragedy on all fronts. Then a few Olympians zoom by in the background flipping the bird at each other Also I haven't read Emily Wilson's Iliad but oohhmygod I gotta. Her Odyssey translation is the best. Everyone. if you love a bastard man going around being a delightful scamp please read the Odyssey. Everyone is all "Odysseus and Penelope are so in love" but they dont even mention that they're couple goals because they're both such sneaking underhanded bastards that when Odysseus returns he doesn't even reveal himself for a while because BOTH OF THEM are busy lying to each other and testing each other with little manipulative jabs and you really get the feeling that they're an OG version of "they need to be a couple for containment purposes"

[49436]

Taking on @batmanisagatewaydrug 's 2025 Book Bingo (along with my wife & housemate, so it's now on our fridge. Taking me back to summer reading lists from the library)

I tend to work down my to-read list in order, unless there's something I really want to get to, so most of this list is 'what's the first thing I'll hit that fills the criteria'. But some books earn the right to skip the line, for one reason or another.

Going for a full board, which means actual bingo might take a minute lol

List below-

Literary Fiction - TBD

Short Story Collection - Friday Black by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah. Chain-Gang All Stars was on my top 10 from 2024 so even though short stories and I don't tend to get along, this one I'm excited about. Will also try Drinking From Graveyard Wells by Yvette Lisa Ndlovu

Sequel - Either A Victory of Eagles by Naomi Novik or Heavenly Tyrant by Xiran Jay Zhao. A matter of which one I get first; My library doesn't have physical copies of Heavenly Tyrant yet, and my wife owns all of Temeraire, so it might win.

Childhood Favorite - Might be Watership Down by Richard Adams, which is always a banger, but I reread Watership just a couple years ago, so it might be The Book of Three by Lloyd Alexander instead, which I read many times with my mom and still have the whole series of.

20th Century Speculative Fiction - TBD

Fantasy - A Taste of Honey by Kai Ashante Wilson. I read so much fantasy, BUT I already have A Taste Of Honey on my side table. So here we are.

Published Pre-1950 - The Iliad (and The Odyssey) translated by Emily Wilson. Heard a lot of noise about her translation, and haven't read these two since... idk but it's been over a decade. Also going to hop on the Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier train.

Indie Publisher - The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms trilogy by N.K. Jemisin. I read a LOT of indie publishers and Jemisin if one of my all-time favorite writers. I've been putting off this series for a time I can really get into it and burn down all three.

Graphic Novel - Dorohedoro by Q Hyashida. Currently on volume 8, will probably finish the series in the next week or two. Love love love Hyashida's work

Animal on the cover - Plague Dogs by Richard Adams. Despite my aforementioned childhood obsession with Watership Down I never got around to Plague Dogs. Looking forward to it!

Set in a country I've never visited - TBD

Sci-Fi - Another genre I'll read a thousand of in a year. Currently I have Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie on my side table (which I fear may be mid, but time will tell) I'm also VERY excited to read The Spare Man by Mary Robinette Kowal

2025 Debut Author - TBD

Memoir - Love Is An Ex-Country by Randa Jarrar. Memoirs aren't usually my thing, but this one made it's way onto my to-read list last year so this is good motivation.

Zine - TBD. Browsing all the other posts from people doing this challenge for recs

Essay Collection - How To Read Now by Elaine Castillo. Literally the only essay collection on my to-read list and it jump scared me. Thought for sure this would a TBD, but How To Read Now should be interesting.

2024 Award Winner - TBD. Will trawl award lists when I have time

Non-Fiction - Facing the Wave: A Journey in the Wake of the Tsunami by Gretel Ehrlich. Specifically chose something that doesn't also count as social justice/activism, which is most of my non-fiction reads. I've found a real appreciation for good non-fiction the last few years (Everyone go read Swimming to Antarctica by Lynne Cox). Learning stuff is cool!

Social Justice/Activism - Everything you Love Will Burn: Inside the Rebirth of White Nationalism in America by Vegas Tenold. Excited for this one.

Romance - TBD. Tend to read romance that's also another genre (romantasy side eye at myself) so I've inevitably got one on my list. But maybe Akwaeke Emezi will write another romance and sweep me off my feet.

Recipe - Steak wrap pinwheels. My wife has been watching Food Truck Race (lol. lmao even) and one of the contestants made these. Stealing the idea with impunity.

Horror - Fever House by Keith Rosson. I've got a rich vein of horror novels on my to-read list, but this will be one of the first.

Published in the Aughts - TBD I'm old. I read of lot of 00's work.

Historical Fiction - Velvet Was The Night by Silvia Moreno-Garcia. Is the 70's historical? I think the 70's is historical now. One of the final 3 books of Moreno-Garcia's I haven't read, and she's never let me down. Might read another Phryne Fisher Mystery or two as well, because they're quick and fun.

Librarian recommendation - TBD. I love my library and there's a few librarians who know me, will have to ask their opinions. Talking to a person! Not just taking one off the recommended shelf! Wild!

[rowanisawriter]

how would you recommend someone start getting into greek epics like the odyssey or others? are there particular translations that people say are the best or nah? later works inspired by these stories that you like a lot?

BABE im coughing up blood at the idea of you reading and rotting over these dusty poems lol

i recommend starting with Homer, so iliad and odyssey (in that order, the odyssey takes place after the events of the iliad) there are a lot of translation options but i recommend emily wilson, her writing is so accessible and easy to read, and her introductions are so good and helpful to understand the context around the stories, the characters, and these ancient customs that are critical to understand but hard for modern audiences to really grasp without support. these poems are SO GOOD you will love them 😭

after that, the plays by aeschylus, euripedes, and sophocles are also really good, i especially love anne carson’s translations. there’s also the aeneid which i LOVE (i read the david ferry translation) and this one takes place after the events of the iliad but is written in a different era than homer so this is basically fanfic…. also aeneid is considered roman propaganda buuuuut it’s good lol i loved it

i of course also love the song of achilles by madeline miller which is inspired by the events of the iliad, but i recommend you read the iliad first

and of course get in my dms if you read any of this 😭🙏

[zodiacsea]

i was right i did get a chapter in and decide it’s beautiful and wonderful once more

sigh. i’m going to read the song of achilles again

[ditoob]

Hi! I saw you have a pretty hefty collection of The Iliad and The Odessey, so I thought i might ask. Is there a translation you might recommend to someone who's looking to read them after becoming interested due to Epic the Musical? I was looking to buy them, but there's so many different translations and publishings I don't know which to go for.

Thanks for asking!

The first versions I read were the Richmond Lattimore translations of the Iliad and Odyssey. From what I’ve heard from people who can read the original ancient greek, they’re incredibly close (they even have the same line numbers!). The Robert Fagles editions are also really good, especially if you like poetry in general. I’ve heard that Emily Wilson’s translations take some creative liberties and add in epithets that aren’t present in the original text but they seem to generally adhere pretty close to the original greek. I’ve heard she makes Odysseus out to be worse than he is though!

The Lattimore translations are closest to the Greek (my favorites!), the Fagles translations have the prettiest verses, and the Wilson translations are the easiest to read.

(These apply to their Odyssey translations too)

Also, consider reading the Aeneid if you enjoy the Iliad and Odyssey! It was written by a Roman poet much later called Virgil and talks about Aeneas, a Trojan Hero featured in the Iliad (though he has a pretty minor role). Robert Fagles has an Aeneid translation that I’d 100% recommend!

[theodysseyofhomer]

Hi! Do you have any versions of the odyssey you recommend for people who want to read it, but also understand it? Like a Highschool level of readability?

Thanks!

hey there! i didn't read the odyssey in full until college, so i can't tell you if there's a translation that's commonly used for its readability at that level, but of the ones i've read, i maintain that emily wilson's is the most broadly accessible to the modern ear. there is also an audiobook, and though i didn't read it that way myself, the audiobook of her iliad translation was extremely good. shocked & upset to discover that epic poetry after the oral tradition actually is better to read aloud

i think fagles is also pretty popular/easy to understand, but you're going to read a lot more denigrating gendered language in his translation that isn't in the greek and doesn't need to be there. i would not recommend fitzgerald for readability even though it's the one i read in college, and it's still kind of my favorite.

[minty-mythos]

Goddess, sing of the cataclysmic wrath / of great Achilles, son of Peleus, / which caused the Greeks immeasurable pain / and sent so many noble souls of heroes / to Hades, and made men the spoils of dogs

Two of my christmas gifts were these hardcover copies of Emily Wilson's translations of the Iliad and the Odyssey. I've read the Richard Lattimore translations, but I've heard good things about Wilson's so I'm looking forward to cracking these open!

[what-even-is-thiss]

Hey do you have any literature recommendations for people who want to broaden their knowledge on the classics and Greek/Roman myths without taking university courses?

So like for people (such as myself) who have read Bullfinch's Myths of Greece and Rome and Edith Hamilton's Mythology: Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes but want to deepen their knowledge and maybe go to intermediate level type stuff. Or whatever the level above the mentioned literature is.

Well those two books are quite old and skip over quite a few things. Both are very important to our culture, historically, but I'd recommend reading through some more modern popular retellings like Stephen Fry's Mythos series if you're looking for pure entertainment and a dummy's guide to Greek myths.

The Penguin Dictionary of Classical Mythology is a useful reference book if you have difficulty keeping track of all these names and whatnot. It's just a reference book but you know. Having a reference book handy is quite useful. I personally prefer reference books when it comes to checking stuff when I'm doing mythology things anyways. They're generally more organized than the internet.

If you're looking for entertaining retellings of less popular myths, I'd actually recommend going to videos and podcasts for that. YouTubers like MonarchsFactory, Overly Sarcastic Productions, Jake Doubleyoo, and Mythology & Fiction Explained are all people who do a lot of research themselves on the myths they retell and I would recommend all of them to basically anybody. As far as podcasts go, Mythology & Fiction Explained has a podcast version and Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! is a very informative podcast that talks about sources for the myths and has interviews with experts on the subjects. It's also a podcast that is specifically Greco-Roman based.

As far as doing slightly more in-depth research, I cannot recommend theoi.com enough. I really can't. It has overviews of the most common myths, it has pages about god and hero cults, it cites it's sources and has an online library of translated texts. It's just really good. Go clicking around it for a while. It's a lot of fun if you're into that sort of thing.

As far as primary sources for myths go, there's a few places you could start. The Iliad, perhaps. The most recent English translation is by Caroline Alexander but I personally prefer Stanley Lombardo's translation. The Odyssey is a more accessible read in my opinion if you're not used to reading epic poetry. Emily Wilson's translation is especially accessible, written in iambic pentameter and generally replicating Homer's simple conversational language.

The third traditional entrance into the epic cycle of the surviving literature is the Aeneid. The newest translation of that is by Shadi Bartsch, which is pretty good, but it reads more like prose than poetry. Would still highly recommend it though. Robert Fitzgerald's translation is also good.

If you wanna get fancy you can read the Post-Homerica which attempts to bridge the gap between the Iliad and the Odyssey. It's not often read but it's one of the latest pagan sources we have from people who still practiced ancient Greek religion.

If you want a collection of short stories from ancient times, Ovid's your guy. Metamorphosis is specifically Roman and specifically Ovid's fanfiction, but it's also a valid primary resource and Ovid generally views women as people. What a concept!

Though I think the absolute best overview from ancient times itself is The Library aka Biblioteca by pseudo-apollodorus. Doesn't matter what translation you get. The prose is simple to the point where it's difficult to screw it up. Not artistic at all. It is, quite simply, a guy from ancient times trying to write down the mythological history of the world as he knew it. It has a bunch of summaries of myths in it, and most modern printings also have a table of contents so you can essentially use it as a reference book or a cheat sheet. I love it.

The Homeric Hymns weren't actually written by Homer but that's what they're called anyways. They're a lovely bit of poetry because, well, they were originally hymns. They've got some of the earliest full tellings of the Hades and Persephone story and the birth of Hermes in them. They also provide an insight into how ancient people who were most devoted to these gods viewed them. Go read the Homeric Hymns. They're lovely. You can buy the Michael Crudden translation or you can read a public domain translation online. I don't care. Just read them.

If you're into tedious lists, the next place I'd recommend you go after you read all the fun stuff is Hesiod's Theogony. Hesiod, the red pill douchebag of the ancient world, decided he was gonna write down the genealogy of all the Greek gods. That means lists. I'm not exaggerating. Be prepared for a lot of lists. But this work also has the earliest and one of the most complete versions of the story of Pandora, the creation of humans, and the most popular version of the Greek creation myth. So, it's very useful. If you can take all the lists.

The Argonautica aka the voyage of the argo by Apollonius of Rhodes, is also here. That is also a thing you can read. About the golden fleece and whatnot. And Jason. You know Jason. We all hate Jason.

Greek theatre also provides a good overview of specific myths. The three theben plays, Medea, the Bacche, etc. We've only got thirty-something surviving plays in their entirety so like... look up the list. Find one that looks interesting. Read it. Find a performance of it online, maybe. They're good.

If you want to dive into the mythology as a religion that was practiced, Greek Religion by Walter Burkurt and Ancient Greek Cults: A Guide by Jennifer Larson are pretty good books on the topic and often used as textbooks in college courses.

If you wanna get meta and get a feel for what the general public today thinks about Greek myths and what the average person that's sort of knowledgeable about Greek myths knows, the books you already mentioned are good. That's what people usually read. In addition to those, most people's intro to Greek myths generally involves The Complete World of Greek Mythology by Richard Buxton, D’Aulaires’ Book of Greek Myths by Ingri and Edgar Parin d’Aulaire, or The Percy Jackson series.

I've been flipping through the big stacks of mythology books I keep on my table trying to remember if I've forgotten anything but I don't think I have so, yeah. Hope this helps. There's no correct starting point here. Once you get started there's a nearly endless void of complications and scholarship you can fall down that you'll never reach the bottom of. This post is basically just a guide to the tip of the iceberg.

[wolfythewitch]

Okay, so uh, slight question, i really really want to buy the Iliad and the Odyssey. I've only ever been relying on Wikipedia and other sources to confirm, but i was wondering if you know what type of books are good? Since theres so many versions, Idk which ones are the cool sht 😭😭

IM SO SORRY IF THIS IS WEIRD TO ASK, BUT IT'S BECOMING MY HYPERFIXATIONS AND IM TIRED OF NOT FULLY KNOWING WHAT HAPPENED AND WHAT THE CHARACTERS DID 😭✋️✋️

Uhh my favorite version is Robert Fagles's translation! But I hear that Emily Wilson's is more modern, so it might be easier to read through (plus I've seen some passages and they go hard)

If you're looking for an iliad translation to read through for the first time, whatever you do don't get Alexander Pope. Banger rhymes, a headache to read

[litcityblues]

I'll Never Forgive Netflix For This

They canceled Kaos after one season.

Now, to be fair, we had been evaluating the number of streaming services we paid for and were planning on canceling Netflix already, so I can't honestly tell you, dear reader, that our decision to cancel Netflix was solely based on the fact that they canceled Kaos after one season, but it sure as shit didn't convince me to stay.

I get that people have feelings about Joss Whedon these days, but not since Fox canceled Firefly have I been this outraged at a decision to cancel a show. I don't know- as it seems like streaming services cancel shows left and right these days, but man when Hollywood is struggling and the firehouse of streaming content is delivering way more quantity than quality, I don't get how you dump a show this damn good!

It doesn't help that I am a mythology nerd. I devoured old Penguin classics on 'Heroes and Legends of Greek Mythology', and I read The Illiad and The Odyssey (multiple versions, but the Emily Wilson translation of The Odyssey is gorgeous-- her translation of The Illiad is on my shelf now) at an absurdly young age. This shit is my jam. I love this. If you are making a movie or a television show about mythology, I'm going to judge the fuck out of it.

(Parenthetical Time: Disney's Hercules is an abomination and I loathe it. Hades was never the bad guy. Troy with Brad Pitt was god-awful, but Troy: Fall of A City on Netflix was an incredibly good adaptation of The Illiad. I know everyone just loves Hercules The Legendary Journeys and Kevin Sorbo these days, but that show also did a really great job with the mythology of it all. Also, shout out to Madeline Miller for The Song of Achilles and Circe, both incredible, amazing books.)

All of that being said: Kaos was the best modern adaptation of Greek mythology that I have ever seen and unforgivably, they ended this show on one hell of a cliffhanger.

The story opens with Zeus (Jeff Goldblum in a bit of serendipitously perfect casting) ruling over a modern Greek world, where mortals are expected to pay frequent homage to him. An Olympia Day monument is vandalized in Krete and he becomes convinced that people are not paying him sufficient respect. He notices a small wrinkle and suspects that's aging (something that shouldn't happen to an immortal) and worries that it represents a line from a prophecy he was given by the Fates.

Dionysus (Nabhaan Rizwan) visits, hoping for more divine responsibilities, and when Zeus rebuffs him and Hera (Janet McTeer) sneers at him, he leaves, but not before stealing Zeus' watch. Zeus goes so far as to summon Prometheus (Stephen Dillane) to seek assurance that his prophecy will not come to pass.

Meanwhile, the mortal Eurydice (Aurora Perrineau) meets Cassandra (Billie Piper) who tells her that today is the day she will leave her husband Orpheus (Killian Scott) because she has fallen out of love with him. She goes to visit her mother, a Tacita Priestess of Hera's (Michelle Greenidge) who reminds her of her prophecy. It's the same as Zeus', which shouldn't be possible, but on her way home, she's hit by a semi and killed. A heartbroken Orpheus tries to commit suicide to follow her to the underworld, but Dionysus tells him there's a way for the two of them to be reunited again.

And from there, this show takes off! We find out about Ari and King Minos, and what happened to her brother Glaucus. The Trojans are here too-- refugees from the fall of their city. Riddy thinks she can pass through The Frame in the underworld, only to find that she can't, because Orpheus stole her coin and she's got to work 200 years before she can pass through and be Renewed. She meets Caeneus who, as it turns out, has the same prophecy as her and Zeus, and little by little, we find out that Prometheus has waited patiently for a chance to take down Zeus and he's not the only one then just when we're setting up for one hell of a cliff hanger with Zeus bleeding, the Meander fountain, the source of the Gods' immortality stops flowing and Hera leaves for an unknown destination, telling one of her children to 'gather the troops' and Ari strikes a deal with the Trojans against the Gods themselves.

And then, Netflix canceled the show.

I cannot tell you how awesome this show turned out to be. Joe McGann shows up as a one-eyed bartender named Polyphemus-- the name of his bar? The Cave. Suzy Eddie Izzard shows up as one of the Fates, Lachesis. Debi Mazar is an excellent Medusa. David Thewlis is Hardes, Cliff Curtis is Poseidon this cast is awesome! From Jeff Goldblum on down it's all just so goddamn amazing. The storylines, adapted from the original myths are updated so intelligently for a modern setting. But it's really the bickering, back-biting, scheming Deities themselves that this show absolutely nails. Hera is mean. Zeus is a tyrant. It's just all so perfect!

Overall: This show deserves at least one more season to finish the story and the internet was rightfully outraged that it was cancelled. As am I. My Grade: **** out of ****

[keepthisholykiss]

I am laying a hand so very gently on the shoulders of people reading and sharing the Emily Wilson Iliad translation and begging them to stop looking for shipping scenes in a new translation of an ancient literary text. Wilson is creating more eye-opening and more accurate yet progressive translations of works that is very much true. Your Achilles x Patroclus ship scenes are... not going to be added in. Translating text and writing historical fiction are not the same and in no way is Emily Wilson the same as Madeleine Miller. If you want to read added explicitly queer scenes in mythological texts then go ahead and put down the translation. You are, at best, going to get subtext. If Emily Wilson had uncovered the scenes you are looking for then it would have made news, much like her Odyssey translation did for its discovery of previously omitted women.

My research expertise is, in-part, dedicated to finding historical queer themes and subtexts and I still have to tell you Homer was not explicitly writing *~* soft patrochilles *~* scenes. Is there queer subtext in Homeric writing? Yes! I agree with that! But a new translation is not going to give you modern YA mlm vibes I'm sorry it's not magically going to be Heartstopper and that is actually a good thing regardless of what you are so desperately searching for! Historical texts like those which Wilson translates have much to offer historical and literary research which is amazing! It does not have to be explicitly perfectly queer for you to enjoy it or benefit from it I promise you.

And if you are reading this going 'surely nobody thinks that' unfortunately my tiktok over the last few days has shown me otherwise!!! I would post this on tiktok itself but god help us all if I did.

[earlgreytea68]

In my journey through random reading, I just re-read The Odyssey.

Spoilers for an ancient epic poem below.

~~~~~~~~

I was assigned The Odyssey three times in high school and college and I remember by the third time through coming to appreciate it. Emily Wilson's new translation has been so widely praised that I figured I would give it a re-read.

I am no judge of translating ancient Greek but the Emily Wilson version reads well and is engaging and I appreciated the blend of formal tone and modernism, it seemed perfect for the poem and I loved it. Also appreciated how many different ways Dawn gets described as breaking.

Odysseus? I found unbearable hahahaha. I just could not with him. I do not remember being so annoyed with him when I was younger! But this time through I was like, Dude, you have made a million bad decisions, PLEASE STOP NOW. As far as I can tell Odysseus's main talent is telling incredibly elaborate lies, to everyone he meets, even where there is really no reason to lie, and certainly not in such detail. But he is OBSESSED with lying. I also love how many names for different made-up fathers he could just pull out at the drop of a hat. I mean, they were impressive lies, very detailed, but I was much less impressed by lying as a superpower than I think the ancient Greeks intended me to be.

Also I only remembered Odysseus's journey. In my head his return to Ithaca was a tiny bit of the poem. Whereas in actuality almost all of the poem is his return to Ithaca and his journey is the tiny bit AND it struck me for the first time that we only ever hear about his journey FROM HIM. And the whole poem is about what a good liar Odysseus is. So now I think the entire journey is suspect and this idea of the unreliable narrator is my favorite new Odyssey headcanon lol. I just never learned it that way and I wish I had thought to bring this up in any of my seminars!!

I was also struck by how the deep belief in gods made it so that no one was ever responsible for any of their actions, ever. Everything they did was because one of the gods wanted them to do it. If the suitors were evil and said evil things, it was because a god made them do it. If Odysseus was able to kill them all, it was because a god wanted it to happen. There was just zero idea of accountability in the way the society was functioning and it was fascinating to me. (My favorite thing was how often people would casually be like, "Hey, can I get a ride on your ship, I just killed someone in town and people are after me," and no one asks any questions, they're just like, "Sure! Hop aboard!") I don't ever remember discussing that in my seminars either and it seems especially important because I think that detached feeling of "can't blame me, it's God's plan" still does show up in some religious beliefs.

One hilarious little moment happened when the suitors were plotting to kill Telemachus and as they're discussing it eagles descend and start attacking them and afterward they're like, "Was that a bad omen! Should we not kill Telemachus!" And then a second later they're like, "Nah, I'm sure that was just a wild coincidence." People only see what they want to see lol

The suitors were actually by far my favorite part of the whole story. They were absolutely hilarious. I love how over the top they were. Like, the swineherd would come in to deliver their dinner and they would throw things at him and shout things like "Smelly pig-man!" And it's like, dudes, chill hahahaha. They just cracked me up. But I also liked how everyone in the poem really is complex and no one is actually really good or even really evil, because the suitors are like, "We wouldn't be here if Penelope would just marry one of us," and I obviously do not approve of this patriarchal society requiring this woman to be married but at the same time I do recognize that I think in their society they were making a valid point that Penelope wasn't entirely blameless and it wasn't all on the suitors. But that ambiguity means nothing in the world of the poem because Athena loves Odysseus best. And I don't say that disapprovingly, it's just clearly how they explained some people winning and some people losing when everyone is making valid points.

My other favorite part of the poem was really contemplating how time works in it. Odysseus has been gone twenty years. With no reliable or solid word about him. (because goddesses keep kidnapping him to have sex with him). And yet every single person Odysseus meets in Ithaca (while he's in disguise) IMMEDIATELY unprompted is like, "Man, every day I cry about how much I miss Odysseus. He was awesome. You would have loved him. Just the best guy." For many many verses this poem is just Odysseus listening to people rave about him. And if they didn't rave about him he was like "those people are not loyal." ...no, Odysseus, you've been gone TWENTY YEARS. I think those are the people who just moved on! Sorry not every one of your enslaved people still weeps every night over you. Honestly the whole poem is way more wild and out there than I remember it being. I really remembered it being about Odysseus's journey and it is honestly most just lots of random Ithacans in perpetual grief.

[corvidcall]

reporting back from my sojourns into twitter. Christopher nolan is making an adaption of The Odyssey, which lead to people recommending Emily Wilson's really incredible translation of the poem, which lead to people trying to insist that it sucks and sounds bad because it doesnt sound like previous translations

this is funny for a lot of reasons: first of all, as she has said many times, a lot of older translation were more riffing off each other instead of actually TRANSLATING the original text. and second of all. the examples they're using all show her translation being better imo.

this specific line was so good and satisfying i was literally saying it over and over again for days after. I dont really Get iambic pentameter, but i can at least tell that the line written with it in mind is better to say than the one without. try it!! say them both out loud and try to tell me that the former is better than the latter.

maybe the problem here is i listened to the audiobook of the poem, and none of the guys arguing that it sucks actually know how to read