#queer masculine men who are babygirls

[1asbrightasthestars3]

what's wrong with me why do I look at the most problematic fictional men and go "that's so me coded."

[robinlovexo]

heyyy, welcome to my page loves, introduction time!

call me robin💕

to see more of me, follow me to this link >:3

fansly.com/robinlovexo

all my slutty tease posts are under #needyprincess

gifs under #mygifs

✨i sell content ✨

i don’t post anything explicit on my main page.. i just will tease you excessively 🤭 if you want any explicit or specific content from me, i may accept requests, i accept gifts and tips

im 23 😼❣️ i’m a queer individual, im genderfluid, meaning some days i am more masculine, some days im more feminine, most days im very androgynous, and typically prefer they/them pronouns - although all of my pronouns are they/fae/she

✨i love women, and men, nonbinary and trans babes. i am a polyamorous individual, currently not partnered, but have a sexual partner that i see on occasion✨

yes you can call me babygirl, good girl, etc, but also if you’re more creative with gender neutral words you get bonus points. please recognize that this page often is me feminine presenting, but i may switch it up on yall 😋

this is my account, at times i will be a menace and be insufferable, if you’re here you get all of me. take it or leave it. sometimes i horny rage online and write smut, other times i rage abt the fucked up systems online, sometimes it’s my thoughts while i’m stoned. i am also very vocal abt the genocide in palestine, and oppressions worldwide.

i do what i please💗

[‼️ALSOOO!!! SEXY PEOPLE AGAINST GENOCIDE BOYCOTT!!! do not go to starbucks, mcdonald’s, chevron… lots of others too. practice conscious consumerism. our buying choices have power. look up the bds movement to learn more‼️]

i love sweet dms, and if you peak my interest maybe we can chat 🥰

i do not entertain language of r@pe or SA of any kind. if you slide into my dm’s with that, you will be blocked. that is not sexy, in fact that is horrific. i love consent. consent is so sexy. and i will not entertain people who condone any rhetoric of extreme force. gtfo plz.

i am a kinky motherfucker, i’m still exploring kink, i recently learned i have a foot fetish, please worship and kiss my feet, i love to be tied up, and also would love to tie you up too😵‍💫🤤 i love to tease, make me beg… and i would love to make you beg too 😋

i’m a switch💖

i obviously don’t have to respond to you, but i usually enjoy it. y’all are cuties.

thank you for being here❣️

[hotvintagepoll]

Propaganda

Loretta Young (The Farmer’s Daughter, The Stranger, Love is News)— Her cheekbones!! Her lips!! Her big eyes and small nose and not quite classical features!! The planes of her face hypnotize me and her smile clears my mind of anything else. She’s an interesting beauty, not a standard one, almost in a Mads Mikkelsen type way (I repeat: cheekbones). Also I’m begging people to watch The Farmer’s Daughter, a charming rom com where my babygirl Joseph Cotten falls through the ice while skating because he got distracted by how pretty she was, and where Loretta puts on a 40s-bad Swedish accent and runs for Congress! Girlboss!

Marlene Dietrich (Shanghai Express, Witness for the Prosecution, Morocco)—its marlene dietrich!!!! queer legend, easily the hottest person to ever wear a tuxedo, that hot hot voice, those glamorous glamorous movies.... most famously she starred in a string of movies directed by josef von sternberg throughout the 1930s, beginning with the blue angel which catapulted her to stardom in the role of the cabaret singer lola lola. known for his exquisite eye for lighting, texture, imagery, von sternberg devoted himself over the course of their collaborations to acquiring exceptional skill at photographing dietrich herself in particular, a worthy direction in which to expend effort im sure we can all agree. she collaborated with many other great directors of the era as well, including rouben mamoulian (song of songs), frank borzage (desire), ernst lubitsch (angel), fritz lang (rancho notorious), and billy wilder (witness for the prosecution). the encyclopedia britannica entry im looking at while compiling this propaganda describes her as having an “aura of sophistication and languid sexuality” which✔️💯. born marie magdalene dietrich, she combined her first and middle names to coin the moniker “marlene”. she was a trendsetter in her incorporation of trousers, suits, and menswear into her wardrobe and her androgynous allure was often remarked upon. critic kenneth tynan wrote, “She has sex, but no particular gender. She has the bearing of a man; the characters she plays love power and wear trousers. Her masculinity appeals to women and her sexuality to men.” in the 1920s she enjoyed the vibrant queer nightlife of weimar berlin, visiting gay bars and drag balls, and in hollywood her love affairs with men and women were an open secret. she was an ardent opponent of nazi germany, refusing lucrative contacts offered her to make films there, raising money with billy wilder to help jews and dissidents escape, and undertaking extensive USO tours to entertain soldiers with an act that included her a playing musical saw and doing a mindreading routine she learned from orson welles. starting in the 50s and continuing into the mid-70s she worked largely as a cabaret artist touring the world to large audiences, employing burt bacharach as her musical arranger.

This is round 2 of the tournament. All other polls in this bracket can be found here. Please reblog with further support of your beloved hot sexy vintage woman.

[additional propaganda submitted under the cut.]

Loretta Young:

[additional propaganda submitted under the cut.]

"ms dietrich....ms dietrich pls.....sit on my face"

"First of all, there are those publicity photos of her in a tux. Second of all, I have never been the same since knowing that she sent copies of those photos to her Berlin lovers signed "Daddy Marlene." Not only is she hot in all circumstances, but she can do everything from earthy to ice queen. Also, she kept getting sexy romantic lead parts in Hollywood after the age of 40, which would be rare even now. She hated Nazis, loved her friends, and had a sapphic social circle in Hollywood. She also had cheekbones that could cut glass and a voice that could melt you."

Bisexual icon, super hot when dressed both masculine and feminine, lived up her life in the queer Berlin scene of the 1920s, central to the 'sewing circle' of the secret sapphic actresses of Old Hollywood, refused lucrative offers by the Nazis and helped Jews and others under persecution to escape Nazi Germany, the love of my life

Her GENDER her looks her voice her everything

“In her films and record-breaking cabaret performances, Miss Dietrich artfully projected cool sophistication, self-mockery and infinite experience. Her sexuality was audacious, her wit was insolent and her manner was ageless. With a world-weary charm and a diaphanous gown showing off her celebrated legs, she was the quintessential cabaret entertainer of Weimar-era Germany.”

"The bar scene in Morocco awoke something in me and ultimately changed my gender"

"Her manner, the critic Kenneth Tynan wrote, was that of ‘a serpentine lasso whereby her voice casually winds itself around our most vulnerable fantasies.’ Her friend Maurice Chevalier said: ‘Dietrich is something that never existed before and may never exist again.’”

"Songstress, photographer, fashion icon, out bisexual phenom (notoriously stole Lupe Velez and Joan Crawford's men, and Errol Flynn's wife, had a torrid affair with Greta Garbo that ended in a 60-year feud, other notable conquests including Erich Maria Remarque -yes, the guy who wrote All Quiet on the Western Front- Douglas Fairbanks Junior, Claudette Colbert, Mercedes de Acosta, Edith Piaf), anti-Nazi activist. Marlene was a bitch - she had an open marriage for decades and one of her favorite things was making catty commentary about her current lover with her husband, and her relationship with her daughter was painful- but she was also immensely talented, a hard worker, an opponent of fascism and the hottest ice queen in Hollywood for a long time."

"She can sing! She can act! She told the Nazis to fuck off and became a US citizen out of spite! She worked with other German exiles to create a fund to help Jews and German dissidents escape (she donated an entire movie salary, about $450k, to the cause). She looks REALLY GOOD in a suit. If you're not convinced, please listen to her sing "Lili Marlene". Absolutely gorgeous woman with a gorgeous voice."

Gifset link

"Bisexual icon and Nazi-hater. Looks absolutely stunning in the suits she liked to wear. 'I dress for the image. Not for myself, not for the public, not for fashion, not for men'."

"Did a bunch of humanitarian work during ww2, pretty sure a shot of her from Shanghai express was the inspiration for one of queens album covers and also her in the suit in Morocco (1930) CHANGED LIVES. I’m sure she’s already been submitted but I wanted an opportunity to submit one of my favourite pictures of her for the poll"

"would you not let her walk on you?"

[hucowboyification]

Transfem Logan who's always been supportive of trans people- obviously, considering the similarities between queer struggles and mutant struggles.

But it's one of those things that applies to other people; she's been around for two centuries and presented as a man the whole time. It wasnt an option when she was younger, and it just doesnt cross her mind that she could be a woman, yknow? Sure, she thinks all the time about how nice being a woman must be, but that's not something she could be. That's something that applies to other people. Clearly, she just thinks women are hot. That's a normal thing for a man to think.

Maybe she's in women's spaces a lot more than most men; after WW2, there were always butch women in manual labor where she worked, and she didnt know why she clicked so well with them.

She maybe thinks she should feel a bit weird hanging out with them so much when they invite her to parties, to gatherings full of nothing but queer women (though of course that wasnt the label they used at first), but it felt so, so right. And for decades, when she would say she was just a friend, a supporter, an ally, the women who would tell stories about when they were little boys would pat her cheek and smile say "okay", looking for all the world like they could read his mind as well as a telepath could.

Charles and Jean knew, of course. She didn't know, but they did. Charles would occasionally hint, so so gently, that the school was welcoming of everyone mutant. When she would push away the daydreams of what life couldve been if she was a woman, they both look sad.

And then Wade finds her in a bar, and drags her into her destiny, and, during the battle with Sabertooth, Wade says her, just as that silly joke, and suddenly it feels like the world just clicked into slots it hasn't been in in so so so long, and when he "corrects" himself it hurts.

When she sees Laura for the first time, she feels sick. Not because she doesnt immediately love Laura, of course; but... she looks so similar to her. She looks like who Logan has always so desperately wanted to.

It takes until she's in a relationship with Wade to fully realize it. He calls her "babygirl", constantly, and she melts every single time. He'll make every possible joke about feminizing her, and it's endearing and so so so hot and she wants it on such a deep level it hurts.

She tells him when they're cuddled up after sex one time, tells him she has something to say and almost chickens out, but then he asks "what's up, babygirl?" and she just starts sobbing and crying and telling him everything she's felt for two hundred years now.

Her style doesnt change much, once she starts to transition. Occasionally she'll wear a dress, but she finds that she loves being a masculine woman. She loves when she opens a jar for Wade when his joints hurt and he swoons overdramatically into her arms. She loves being the one who does the heavy lifting (which Wade only occasionally protests to, before situating himself with popcorn to watch her muscles flex), and she loves putting together the shitty Ikea furniture Laura insists on buying for herself when she gets her first apartment. She doesn't like makeup, and she only very occasionally wears dresses.

But she also loves being Wade's babygirl, and being Laura's mom.

Estrogen works so much better than she expected it to; rather than rejecting it or ignoring it, her system seems to assume it had made a mistake somewhere, and, when she starts to gain a bit of weight because she's finally so, so happy, it goes to her hips and her breasts, too. (Wade, of course, is the first to notice, and celebrates by spending multiple hours suffocating himself in her boobs.)

Sometimes, she wonders what life wouldve been like if she'd just realized sooner. Maybe she would've never been drunk off her ass and too deep in a bottle to help her family when the humans came to kill them. Maybe the government never would've even grafted the adamantium to her skeleton.

Maybe she never would've been the Wolverine.

But she knows she never wouldve met her new family. She would never have the most infuriating boyfriend who she loves more than anything in the world, or a daughter.

[velvetvexations]

As an east asian tmasc i’d actually like to pitch in with my own thoughts on the “babygirl” thing being reskinned misogyny/racism, because i think there are a dew mechanisms at play here that need to be acknowledged separately

For one, im not entirely sure it’s accurate to claim that “babygirlification” disproportionately targets east asian or gender nonconforming men. It more frequently and broadly seems to target transmasculinity and trans men (comments focused on reproductive biology, “impregnate him” and such being the whole joke). Emasculation is a specific type of violence that asian men are subject to in different contexts and it also tends to manifest in different ways at different intersections of identity and class, the distinguishing characteristic being that their emasculation suggests a Degenerate Perversion that (east) asian men are too animalistic to overcome. In the case of a gnc man, i would imagine much of his experiences are already articulated by an existing term, transmisogyny, and transmisogynistic prejudice tends much more to objectify transfeminized subjects along a narrative of predation and corruption, which is distinct from the superficially safe, consumable, and passive narrative thrust upon transmasculinity.

It’s kind of interesting to me, actually. The ones i have seen most “babygirlified” are cis white male characters, who more or less conform to white masculinity. In many of those instances, i read the “babygirlification” as a feminization of their socially coded roles in a pseudo-subversive manner. The femininity being forced upon them is, in these cases, not truly from a desire to subvert gendered codes, but a queer-lite affirmation of the ideal they already embody (cis, het, white being the big three intersections in mind). Second to them are the characters who, regardless of their social identities, are compulsively “babygirlified” according to their status as social failures, rejects, outcasts, and more prevalently, fandom perception of these characters as such (“poor little meow meow”, “born alone in a wet cardboard box”, etc.). In these cases, the “babygirlified” subject in question is forced into a stereotypical construct in fandom consciousness; notably, the characters deemed desirable enough to “babygirlify” in this way are only rarely black or dark-skinned, so societal trends bleed into it all the same.

I’ve seen people try to describe this as another instance of male favoritism, and while i dont disagree wholesale (there very much are instances where that’s the case) there’s more going on beneath the surface.

Thinking about the times it occurred to me to use it, or that I saw it and thought "ha, so applicable", while in both cases feeling weird about it, reasoning tends to vary. With Trevor Moore it was partly because he had kinna of a (very vaguely) feminine build and hairstyle, he was an outsider-type, and he would probably have thought it was hilarious to apply to him.

With BLeeM it was like, I think a mix of how much of his persona is getting harried and frustrated, as well as the ideological purity I associate with him - even if not to the unrealistic and silly "decolonial philosopher" levels others do.

I hope this data helps others formulate about it.

[chevelleneech]

Again, claiming Felix isn’t physically androgynous in the most basic of ways the term/label is used, is a blatant lie, and I do not understand why kpop fans are spouting it.

You don’t have to like nor be a fan of someone to admit their gender is difficult to specify to those who don’t know them. I mean, for fucksake, Felix looks like this:

At first glance, some of these do give man, but others absolutely do not. From a very base level, heteronormative point of view, he looks like a woman more often than not lately. Which is fine, it’s just his face, lol. Making threads about how he doesn’t and people only say so because he has long hair, is stupid.

Aside from his physicality though, Felix has actually made a point to state from his own mouth that he’s intentionally aiming to be viewed as unisex. He likes the fact that he doesn’t fit into one or the other, so even if his physical appearance was more masculine, saying he can’t be androgynous at all is dismissive. Especially because androgyny is as much of an identity as it is an objective feature.

Now, I’m not saying Felix is no longer cis or wants us to toe the line of pronouns for him. All I’m saying is, he likes resting in between. He doesn’t view himself as masculine and was surprised that other people do. He said he likes having longer hair as well, and that short hair isn’t always fun. So just let him be.

For real, this once again steps into my box of, “Kpop fans love the idea of queer/non-cis idols, but hate the reality of them actually existing.” Proven all the more, because Felix has also said he has a type in men and women, which people have staunchly decided was nothing more than a joke, despite the context showing it wouldn’t make sense due to him being unaware he was being recorded.

So yeah, you know… seems like Felix is probably very likely somewhere on the queer spectrum, and is fine with that, but it’s fans both of him and not, who simply can’t accept what’s being offered. It’s all fun and games to these people when male idols in particular are written into their favorite fan fic roles, but once these same men vocalize their attraction to men in real life or showcase how accurate fics were in describing them as “Babygirl” or non-binary, it’s suddenly too much. It’s unrealistic to take as the truth, because South Korea is apparently the Mecca of queerphobia, to the point where actual queer people do not exist.

According to idol fans at least. Fuck the real life queer people living in the country fighting for their rights. Fuck the extremely few out queer idols who have said plenty of other idols are queer (which is a given). And especially fuck the idols themselves who have said they have been or are attracted to men and women. And we can’t forget he to say fuck the idols who have stated they like that their gender or presentation of self attracts all genders, or leads to them being assumed queer or non-binary. None of those people matter, because FANS have decided they’re not real😌

[stranger-rants]

i just don't understand the feminization of male characters. it doesn't make sense to me and maybe that's because i don't identify as lgbt so i'm not in the community or get their jokes but it's just hard for me to wrap my head around why 99% of the fandom insists that billy's girly. is it because he doesn't dress like a slob?

Well, LGBT is not an identity. It’s an acronym. Obviously - but I say this because lumping “LGBT” together is not necessarily beneficial. A person who is lesbian, gay, or bi doesn’t automatically understand what it’s like to be transgender or non-binary… and we’re talking about gender expression here, not attraction. Being transgender or non-binary may help you understand it better, but it’s not necessary.

“Babygirl Billy” as I’ve discussed has a specific meaning to me that isn’t necessarily about gender (I already made a post about it. I am not explaining again). It doesn’t directly translate to “girly” or “feminization,” but since you’ve brought those terms up I need to discuss things like gender expression, hegemonic masculinity, gender nonconformity, and so on…

I personally view Billy as having masculine and feminine traits. I think most people have a mix of these traits. Gender is a social construct that you are raised into by your society / culture. The society / culture you are raised in also has a hegemonic concept of what masculinity and femininity should look like. (e.g. Men must do x, not y in order to be men). Billy is abused for transgressing those boundaries.

There has always been a feminine side to Billy that he was never truly allowed to safely explore. A lot of men are denied this opportunity, and it causes them a lot of harm. If they dress too feminine, they are punished. If they express their emotions in a feminine manner, they are punished. And so on and so forth. This trauma makes them fearful of femininity / overcompensate with hypermasculinity.

That said, there are still ways that Billy expresses himself that do not fit into the hegemonic masculine mold. As a child there’s a noticeable switch from Billy wearing flowers on his clothes and being gentle to wearing very plain outfits that were meant to get dirty. Then as an older teen, we see him trying to balance a masculine façade with feminine interests like jewelry and perfume.

People can sit here and argue that, well, that’s just how men were in the 80s! …but no, the hegemonic masculine mold was still very much conservative in appearance as it still is today. Just because famous musicians could wear perfume and pierce their ears doesn’t mean your average boy wasn’t going to be called slurs for doing the same.

Remember that this is all a construct. Liking certain things that are gendered a certain way doesn’t mean you have to identify with that gender, unless you want to. However, it does mean living a certain way can code someone as gender non-conforming which is the way that many queer fans view Billy based on their own experience.

For some of us, Billy embracing his femininity is appealing as it addresses part of his trauma. He embodies a lot of his mother’s traits with the way he dresses and the way he reacts, but so many people treat Billy as a carbon copy of Neil. Neil represents hegemonic masculinity as he inflicts trauma onto Billy who very much tries to resist him in the way he can (e.g. how he dresses, acts, talks).

You don’t have to get it or agree with these interpretations, but using not “getting it” against people is where I draw the line. People making a problem out of those of us wanting to explore these aspects to a fictional character need to learn to mind their business, and that includes not putting up a stink or using “girly” or “feminization” in a derogatory way.

Overall, gender is a complicated spectrum. There are aspects of gender that are privileged, and aspects that are not. People who go out of gender bounds regardless of their gender identity experience trauma that could be resolved if we just allow people to express their gender in a more diverse way.

Anyone saying someone like Billy would hate it is really just saying he should hate it… because ultimately Billy is not real. The audience is projecting their thoughts and feelings about gender onto Billy. You take for granted that certain concepts of gender are more readily accepted, thus you don’t question masculine interpretations but you question feminine ones because it is unexpected.

[male-pussy-mens-tits-mangirl]

[!! Currently Mass-Editing Tags for Better Organization !!]

INTRO:

hello beautiful people 💋💖

main: @yesicanbelieveitsnotbutter (so yk if i follow/follow back)

name: not important, but you can me all sorts of pet names, like: puppy, mutt, dog, slut, whore, baby, princess, prince, boy, girlie, toy, etc. 😘 get creative~

age: adult

gender: queer ftm man with a kinky dose of babygirl ; twink to bear transsexual style lol

pronouns: he/him (she/her for my "detrans"/forcefem kink*)

bodily terms: fem and masc terms accepted for all parts of my body, just be aware that I am very very hairy, so dont call me smooth (because im not 🥰💖). using pronouns (he/she) for my gentilia is also super hot, esp when paired with degradation <3

sexuality: technically ace, definitely aro - overall, strong preference for men and/or masculinity, but binary feminine women can interact if youre cool - im externally bisexual, like, in terms of what i interact with

sub** by choice, i dont like being in charge of shit - switch, but im a sucker for getting fucked within an inch of my life

(**sometimes i get in a cishetmale domineering mood but i dont post about it, idk ask me if your curious lol)

KINKS: BDSM, petplay, "breeding" (creampies), feminization/"detrans"/misgendering*, cross-dressing, slutty/"porn star" clothing, CNC, monsterfucking, denial, praise, degradation, bloodplay, mild ageplay (i like ddlg/b, so sue me), size difference

LIMITS: no pregnancy, no scat/vomit/pissplay, *no actual detransitioning talk

DNI if you got "men dni" in your bio ("cis/het/binary men dni" is fine), and dont follow me if any of my kinks are in your dni. other than, idc lol <3

block me if you dont like me, ill block you if youre an asshole 🥰

Asks and DMs are open!

TAGGING SYSTEM (Work In Progress):

*(if i tag your original post with a tag u don't like, message/ask with the post link and how u want me to tag/interact with the post, and ill update it.)*

type:

#text - text posts

#images - image posts

#video - video or gif posts

gender:

#men - images/videos of or with a focus on men/boys/masculine people

#girls - images/videos of or with a focus on girls/women/feminine people

#queer - images/videos of or with a focus on people who don't fit neatly into the above binary or if I don't know their preferred terms, or if the post overall is best described as queer

#femsub / #mascsub / #subfocus - posts with a focus on feminine/masculine/unlabeled submissives

#mascdom / #femdom / #domfocus - posts with a focus on masculine/feminine/unlabeled dominants

content:

#cnc and #dubcon - posts that play with non-consent. cnc is for more extreme violations, dubcon is for ambiguous consent

#clothes - posts for my clothing kink

#petplay - posts about petplay/being animal-like

#degradation / #praise - posts with degradation, posts with praise

#bound / #denial - posts with bondage / posts about denial

#overstim / #edging - posts about overstimulation / posts about edging

#free use - posts about free use (if there's cnc-elements, i'll also tag that)

#fat&hairy - posts about fat and/or hairy bodies

#monster - posts about monsters/monsterfucking

#shower - posts about showering, washing bodies

#cowboys - cowboy posts yeehaw

housekeeping:

#boyfriend tag - posts for my beef (bf) (boyfriend)

#serious - posts about community issues/sex education/generally non-horny blog-related posts

#out of kink - posts out of kink, usually about the realistic side of sex

#meme - meme or shitpost

#positivity - positivity posts, generally out of kink

fandom:

#fandom - horny posts from any/all fandom(s) i don't post a lot about, misc fandom posts

#disco elysium - horny posts from the disco elysium fandom

#fic - fanfiction link

[sparrowmoss]

as it continues to be a very popular thing to refer to male characters as babygirl/girlfriend/wife/mother/etc, i would just like to ask again that if and when you do this, you take a moment to think about your reasons why. why you feel like you need to use a feminine term instead of a masculine or neutral one. are you feminizing them to infantilize them, degrade them, or something else in a similar vein? are you unable to see these traits in a person without associating them with femininity and womanhood? i think any time you misgender or feminize a character, you should be thinking about why you feel the need to do so in that instance. and i know that a lot of it is just trying to fit in and get a good grade in fandom social circles, but i think every new trend that comes around should be thought about thoroughly rather than thoughtlessly adopted, even if you think it’s coming from other “good” people.

i think there are a lot of layers to how this is part of a bigger issue of people trying to make the gender binary and established gender roles cool again, which we truly should not be circling back to. i’m not saying every instance of this is driven by sexism, internalized or otherwise, but i think an uncomfortably large amount of it is, even if unintentional.

for an example, people churning out “happy mothers day” posts for various male characters on said day every year, usually because their male character of choice has traits that are traditionally associated with women and mothers. are you starting to see why this is not good to adopt into your mindset? it is not a woman-exclusive trait to care about your children by any measure besides society’s patriarchal values. there is also some gender binary being intrinsic to biology bullshit in here but for now i’m focusing on sexism.

every parent should be caring for their child, expressing love for them, feeding and clothing them, protecting them, and comforting them. if you see these traits in a person, real or fictional, and your knee-jerk reaction is to make a joke out of it and call them a woman, i think you should reflect on that. i truly don’t see how this is much different than right-wing people who see a real man taking care of his child and say “what are you, a woman?” “no real men do this” or the like, and guess what! they quite often take to the internet to say the same things about fictional men on their screens, too! and when your thoughts and sentiments are aligning with people in the right wing, even if you adopt a different tone when saying it, it’s worth some consideration.

all of this is especially worth some deep introspection if you have zero interest in, or even feel negatively toward, your subject character that you feminize actually being genderweird in some way, ESPECIALLY in a transfeminine way. because unfortunately, a lot of queer people do this to characters, and even a lot of nonbinary and/or trans(masc) people do this to characters, and actively dislike the idea of exploring that character’s actual relationship with gender expression, identity, and roles. so many people who babygirl any male character at the drop of a hat are not open to the idea of that character being transfeminine in any way, and that is a problem, full stop. if you’re a cis woman or a transmasculine person and are very attached to the habit of babygirl-ing male characters, but you either 1. only ever headcanon these male characters as transmasculine, or 2. only ever headcanon these male characters as cis men, really, really give that some thought. this is not an encouragement to take the characters you infantilize and demean via emasculation and turn them into transfeminine characters that you then continue to infantilize and degrade/be sexist to, what i mean is that you need to start looking at this mental system as a whole.

just, think about the times you feel the need to feminize a male character when you refer to them. because despite any insistence that fiction has no effect on reality, this can eventually bleed into how you treat real people. and more often than not, the way you are referring to fictional men as babygirls or mothers is only happening in the first place because you hold already established ideas about femininity, and certain traits and their ties to gender, that are harmful and not true.

[myfeministresearch]

❤️‍🩹Imaginary femininity of men in metamodernism

In the article “Mass Culture as Woman: Modernism’s Other” (1986) Andreas Huyssen argues that gendering of mass culture as feminine happened with the backdrop of modernism which was not only being gendered masculine but misogynistic as well. With postmodernism embracing mass culture and questioning modernism’s claims to rationality and truth, mass culture lost its feminine connotation.

Huyssen claims that Julia Kristeva’s feminizing of modernist male writers is wrong insofar it misses the fact that masculine mystique of Flaubert and Nietzsche revealed (or concealed) in their writing is incongruent with “powerful and misogynist current within the trajectory of modernism” (4). Modernist writers were “in control of [their] artistic means” (2), while mass culture was inscribed with feminine attributes of uncontrollability and beauty (Adorno, Kracauer). Therefore, any imaginary femininity of male authors coincided with feminization of mass culture, and as only one of those concerned actual women (although fictional, Madame Bovary), Kristeva’s theory should be dismissed.

This made me think what postmodernism, or better, metamodernism, can offer in terms of feminization of male authors then. If, per Huyssen’s claims, the course of postmodernism has alleviated “ascription of femininity to mass culture” (13), it must have also relieved the sense of control that men felt over culture. Which, in turn, may allow them to be read femininely.

Contemporary metamodernist subjectivity allows for unstable identity positions. According to the theorists of metamodernism, Timotheus Vermeulen and Robin van den Akker (2010), metamodernist structure of feeling can be observed in art. Its core characteristic is oscillation between modernist naiveté and postmodern skepticism. David Greven (2009, 176) wrote about postmodernist manhood of the actor Vin Diesel, who is “postrace, postgay, posteverything”. I would like to argue that metaeverything is what creates a possibility for

For example, currently there is an online meme among young queer people to call middle aged (often cis, straight) men “baby girl”. Such a nickname, if read in a paranoid way (in Sedgwick’s words), may seem infantilizing, but is actually meant as endearment. Qualities of “babygirlism” include, but are not limited to: being coy while brutal, whimsical and naïve but murderous and serious, etc. This oscillation between ascriptions of femininity and masculinity is in itself, “babygirl”-ish, meaning, containing gendered multitudes is what, oxymoronically, characterizes femininity.

Huyssen, A. (1986). Mass culture as woman: modernism's other. After the great divide: Modernism, mass culture, postmodernism, 44-62.

Greven, D. (2009). Manhood in Hollywood from Bush to Bush. University of Texas Press.

Vermeulen, T., & Van den Akker, R. (2010). Notes on metamodernism. Journal of aesthetics & culture, 2(1), 5677.

[studio-interview-repository]

Interview -- Alissa B.

NG: You’ve talked about how babygirl-ing masculine individuals is a way to flip the script on the objectification of the feminine body, which is so interesting! Do you consider that the first step towards a larger discussion of objectification in general, and if so, where would you expand your references to? AB: The unfortunate thing about starting a new body of work is that the meaning and reason for doing things changes before you get to the perceived end. When I started this work, I was curious about how feminine people on the internet objectify men because it only mirrors the way men objectify women in the fact that a gender is being objectified. Men create a violent fantasy of how women should act and then treat women that way. I’ve found that “babygirl-ification” is also a kind of fantasy, but it’s one where men have less power and are less likely to commit abuse or acts of violence. Or rather its both, where men have less of the power, physically and socially, to be able to be violent and abusive. However! I think my portrait collage series is shifting. I realized that I have a lot of shame when it comes to attraction, especially towards men. Having celebrity crushes or fantasizing about certain fictional characters makes me anxious because I worry about how I will be perceived. This is very normal behavior by the way, and it’s common for younger people, specifically queer and feminine people who have little to no romantic or sexual experience, to explore sexuality/ physicality/etc through the use of fiction. A lot of my shame comes from bullying in middle school (doesn’t it all), and I realize now I don’t want to be ashamed to experience attraction of any kind. This series is now becoming a way for me to connect with a younger version of myself, and to give her a platform to express herself after I’ve tried to repress her for so long. NG: We’ve talked before about why making larger-than-life-sized art is important to you, but why is making your smaller work in the sizes you choose important to you and your practice? AB: The size of my work has to do with content but also about practicality. I love making big, almost mural-like paintings of complex scenes, but I am under a time constraint in a single semester. By working small, I can explore more topics and materials, and it takes me a fraction of the time. There is also something to be said about how my work about the digital, niche community on the internet require a smaller frame. The internet exists in the size of a phone, tablet, or laptop screen. While the internet and fan communities feel big, they physically are small. I would love to play with size and distort it eventually, but now as I’m trying new things, I’d like to keep it small for sanity’s sake. NG: You’ve talked about how your engagement with media is a big source of reference for your work! As your relationship to the media you pull from now naturally changes with time, how do you see it changing the way you see this artwork down the line? Is it like a studio scrapbook, or more of a linear story detailing what you were into at the time it was made? AB: Yes! I think that’s a perfect way to describe it. When I look back on work I made in my undergrad, I am able to see exactly where I was mentally and emotionally because I included so many references to the things I love. It’s almost like that scene in Ratatouille, where I am immediately transported back. It becomes a diary or scrapbook. I sometimes don’t remember the day to day, but I always remember what shows or what music I was listening to. I get to create these eras for myself, and that’s something I’m really interested in exploring.

[alarrytale]

I think Nick is closeted bcus like Louis it is noticeable there is no sexual chemistry with women but how is this ambiguous thing going to play out when we see with Harry that he is now getting so much backlash for it. How will he do queer roles while being closeted and not talking about his sexuality. People will eventually be vocal about it. Will he have to do Louis type denials which will lose him his queer fans. Will he go for a het fanbase like Harry which will probably be so mentally damaging to him considering he has mental health problems, and it will maybe hurt his creativity. I saw that he says Harry is an inspiration to him and well if he follows Harry's path then maybe he'll end up the same way as Harry and a negative image.

Hi, anon!

I know people like to contrast and compare nick to harry and louis, because that's what we know and that's our best frame of reference when it comes to closeting, queerbaiting and appealing to your target audience. But i think their situations are very different, and when the situations are differerent we can't expect the same results.

For one, Harry is currently straight presenting. He's holding hands with his current beard, making out with supermodels and getting tattoos for his gfs. His straight presenting isn't subtle, it's full on. It's aggravating for those of us who knows he's gay and with louis.

Secondly, Harry is also gay presenting, at least while touring. Singing medicine and his other bi music and waving rainbow flags and wearing glittery and feminine clothing. He's queercoding. That's a threath to the hets who wants to fantasise about marrying him.

The reason the queer community and some of the gp is calling him out for queerbaiting and his pr stunting is because he's playing both sides and stringing people along. Nobody wants that. It's problematic. He's created discontent on both sides, instead of keeping both sides happy. People are starting finding faults with him, calling him out more, engaging less and he's losing his shine. It creates pressure on harry, who is currently focusing on targeting the hets, who are the largest part of his fandom.

For nick it's very different. Nick isn't really straight presenting. I'd argue that he's queer presenting or presenting a very sexually ambiguous image. What he's presenting is a man who has a gayface, speaks about having both masc and femme traits, takes queer (and some straight) acting roles, attends pride, don't mind being called babygirl, refers to other men as sexy, who talkes openly about his mental health stuggles, his distain for toxic masculinity and advocates for prevention of men sexually assaulting women. He hasn't got time for relationships (his words) and hasn't been in one (publically) for a long time. Women are very comfortable around him and he cuddles up to both men and women, like the man baby he is.

Nick has never spoken directly about his sexuality. Even the daily mail agrees and they are the best source to gauge a celebrity's prefered narrative. He indirectly talks about being straight and it's easy to assume he is if you don’t dig a bit deeper. There are no pics or videos of him with women showing pda.

Nick also got a different fandom than harry. Nicks fandom is more like louis', predominantly queer or thinks that nick is queer. The composition of his fandom is due to his many queer roles. He's often refered to as a queer icon. As long as he wants to continue to do queer roles, i think he wants to keep his queer fandom. By changing the way he presents himself, for example by going very straight, like harry, he'd alienate the largest part of his fandom. I don't see a need for that, he's thriving and the fandom is thriving, by him just being himself. There is no fake baiting of either hets or queers. Harry is an inspiration for him, but i think it's mostly due to the androgynity in his fashion, something that nick wants to emulate.

It's hard to tell what strategy they are going for to make him known. The way he talks in interviews it doesn’t seem like they are going for stunting and pr relationships, but rather let his talent speak for itself. He wants to be taken seriously as an actor and not be known as a celebrity (his own words). That's the opposite of the strategy harry is going for. It also doesn’t seem like the promo around tioy is going to be het focused, but focused on the music. But that might change. I don't think there is a need for a queer denial, he doesn't mind the speculation (why would he) and it would amplify the queerbaiting speculation and alienate his fandom. So no, i think the best course of action is to keep up the ambiguity sourrounding him (that creates engagement on it's own). I don't think queerbaiting accusations will be a problem as long as he's not agressively straight presenting.

[anghraine]

#YEAH#or men. the other thing is that ppl will say ‘this is sooo lesbian. to me’ about m/m couples or even m/f ones all the time like#no. no. queer? sure yes. lesbian/yuri? nah (via @stripedroseandsketchpads)

EXACTLY.

My original version of this post was longer and I kept cutting it down to be less specifically annoyed about fandom trying to make the general fandom fixation on men somehow = caring about lesbians. I have an intense aversion to the More Lesbian Than Thou gatekeeping from some parts of the community, so I haven't said much about it for a long time, but I'm really uncomfortable with the use of lesbians as a cover for stanning fan favorite male characters who are pretty unambiguously presented as cishet and m/m or m/f ships involving them.

I don't remotely mind people being into characters or scenes that are manifestly Not Lesbian; I myself have plenty of fandom-beloved male faves, het ships, etc, I have AUs where they are lesbians, I have fun headcanoning them as something other than conventionally cishet, I get the appeal. But it's like—usually this use of "lesbian" does not seem to literally be "I headcanon that [character X] is actually a closeted lesbian trans woman" or something like that, but—just another way of calling a male character babygirl or cunty or soft and therefore not masculine or whatever.

I've seen it used for m/m before, but I'm increasingly seeing het romantic scenes described as "lesbian," or lesbians used to justify only caring about canonical male characters, and I didn't even realize how much it bothered me until I started reading a post that seemed like it might go there and then it was actually about seeing a character as lesbian. And it was such a breath of fresh air that I was like ... huh, that absence is pretty glaring, actually, isn't it.

Can't lie, there's something deeply refreshing about seeing a post that goes on about how a character or scene is sooo lesbian, and realizing the OP is genuinely talking about how they see the character as attracted to a woman or women, or how shippy they find the f/f dynamic in a scene, and not ... like, vibes or aesthetics.

[catfishofoldin99colours]

Originally just kept this to myself but I saw someone else posting it so here we go:

ST fans who say Steve should be allowed to be a 'masc' babygirl (what the fuck does that even mean) are actually brain-dead because the man is the furthest thing from a feminine man to begin with.

Look at him. No seriously look. He's not feminine at all. He's masculine. He's masc (if you can ever describe a cishet man as masc anyway). He's a MAN. No one is saying he isn't allowed to be masc EXCEPT the people reblogging that stupid fucking post.

Stop fucking???? Looking at men doing nothing and calling them queer icons??? He's not one??? Shut the fuck up? Stop using words that are important to queer people and twisting them around??? Literally no one is staying Steve can't be masc. You're all literally brain-dead. Go outside and talk to a gay man for once in your life. Holy shit.

[natjennie]

different person but as a trans woman you are crazy if you think pronouns are culturally divorced from gender entirely. i don’t know whatever fandom echochamber you’ve been in that makes you think it’s normal to, by default, refer to gay men with she/her pronouns just because SOME drag queens CHOOSE to do it, but it’s utterly insane. when people call me he/him it’s ok because it’s not misgendering cuz pronouns are ungendered right? it is a major intracommunity problem in the LGBT community that gay men are viewed & treated like your girly little purse puppies. the amount of gay guys i know who have personally told me they felt alienated from watching this show, a show that is ostensibly FOR THEM, because of queer women in the fandom are acting like you are is legitimately heartbreaking.

ok I'm gonna try to respond to as many of these points as I can because I understand what you're saying and really want to make myself clear. I feel like there are a lot of assumptions and generalizations being made, both in this ask and the other persons', that are muddying the waters of what we're talking about.

nowhere did I say that pronouns ARE divorced from gender entirely, only that in an ideal world they could be. also I don't default to she/her pronouns for gay men, I don't know where you got that, genuinely.

also I was using the drag queen point as an example of the use of traditionally gendered pronouns not matching the traditionally labelled gender of the person using them, more of a proof of concept than a dogma for all gender expression and pronoun use.

of course people misgendering you is horrible, if your pronouns are she/her and you're a woman, then someone using the wrong identifiers would be hurting you. I meant that point to mean that you can be a man and want to use she/her. you can be nonbinary and use he/him. you can be a woman and use he/they. the ideological concept of gender and pronouns is completely fabricated, and can be mixed and matched however you want.

the way that gay men are treated in fandom in general is disgusting, you're right. I agree wholeheartedly and have for a long time. and the fact that gay men aren't comfortable in their own communities is sickening, especially for our flag means death with its themes of inclusion and representation and breaking the barriers of masculinity.

I truly don't know what you want me to say. "babygirling middle-aged men" is a huge thing on this website mainly because it's fun. it's a cute fun way to encapsulate the squishy emotions you feel when thinking about them, writing in your journal with glitter, kicking your feet up in bed, kind of energy. yknow? at least that's how I've always understood it. at the end of the day we are random people on the internet calling a person attractive. I just really don't understand how my words got so twisted. I can't sit here and defend an entire like. meme. I'm just one person calling someone cute. right? I don't know.

[polyputthekettleon]

Time for some uncomfortable truths

I'm trying to be perfect for D and it's not sustainable.

She's right, fuck her forever for being so, and fuck her forever for having been so good at being what I long for and crave, only to realize that doesn't actually feel good to her. I absolutely want a masculine partner, and not just a partner who identifies as masculine and a man. A dominant masculine cis male partner.

I'm finding myself missing the way that K and I could be together, and really, seriously worrying about the idea of no longer having access to really great cock. D is changing, and it's what she wants and I'm happy for her. But I fully anticipate her penis shrinking and her erections becoming less and less reliable/enjoyable as she continues her hormone therapy. And I feel very uncomfortable with that as the long term reality limit for my sex life.

I feel so greedy and selfish and *bad* for even thinking about it. But I want hard cock, eager cock. I want testosterone-fueled sexual aggression. And I had that with K, and it's gone now and I miss it, but not as much as I bet I'll miss it in a year.

God dammit.

I think I've been trying to pretend this isn't a big deal. That I can totally adjust and not have to worry about *how the fuck** I can get my desires and wants met.

Well, I'm officially back to worrying.

Tonight, I want a man and cock and being fucked hard while he whispers in my ear and calls me a whore. I want to call him sir, I want to debase myself, I want to revel in how good it feels to be play the part of a fuckdoll at a man's feet.

Buy I don't want it to be any man. I want it to be a man I love, a man I trust, a man who I can call Daddy and Sir and baby and honey and every other sweet name in the book.

I want K, god dammit!! I want him back. I want his touches and his jokes and his filthy mind and how easily he overpowered me. I want the way we'd fuck *everywhere*, constantly. I want the way he would hurt me and fuck me, especially in the morning or in the middle of the night. God.

Every fucking morning I wake up and I crave his cock. And every single goddamn morning I remember that he's not there.

I love my babygirl D, dearly dearly dearly. And I love our morning routine too.

But FUCK.

I want him back!!! I want him, I miss him, and I feel like I'm faking something right now. Maybe I'm genuinely not queer enough!!!!

I was the happiest girl when for a brief moment, I was fucking **three** men regularly, and all of them would hold me down and treat me like the needy slut that I am, and oh GODDD I loved it. Even though that situation didn't end well, I still fucking loved it.

D is softer and sweeter and switchier than K. And I want to be everything to her, because I want to have her love. But she is not able to give me everything I want back.