#programming and conditioning

[sysmedsaresexist]

Could you please dive into the RAMCOA controversy that's been going around? I've literally never heard someone say "RAMCOA is antisemitic" until like a week ago and now there's multiple blogs (I'm sure you can guess who at this point) who are saying this and calling RAMCOA a conspiracy theory from the satanic panic.

It's being said by the same 3 blogs that all reblog the same bad takes so I wasn't putting any stock in their word. Just the latest misinfo spreading unchecked, would appreciate your thoughts on this.

You know what, I'm not going to lie, I've been dreading getting this question.

Terrified. Harassment in this area of discussion is rampant.

We are currently debating making a post and how to approach it.

I will make our stances clear right now.

I think the conversation as it is now is full of misinformation and confusion. I think no single post can cover that amount of history and the theories and controversy.

I don't think anyone understands what they're arguing about, or the histories they're trying to bring up, and how they overlap. I think many members of the conversation lack access to resources and education that the mods of this blog DO have access to. Most of the links being thrown around lead back to the same single sources.

To shorten a very long, complex, and honestly unfinished conversation: the satanic panic and RAMCOA are two completely different entities. The satanic panic was a religious political movement of the 90s pushed by conservatives as a way to scare people back into church and scare women back into their "place" at home by attacking child care facilities. It called on a lot of tropes. And many of them were, yeah, ridiculously antisemitic. As the movement got more and more sensationalized, it began to call attention to therapists (some of them bad faith) and to RAMCOA survivors as a "Look! It's real!" kind of thing. If anything, this attention hurt far more than it helped. It painted an inaccurate and insulting picture that's still utilized to harm people today.

To be very clear: programmed DID is a well documented occurrence and it can occur in several ways.

We support survivors, no matter what they call it. We support clinicians trained in treating people who have gone through that extreme level of horrific abuse. We support people learning to separate fact from fiction, in whatever way that may apply to any given situation.

SAS supports ramcoa and oea survivors.

Here's something we suggest reading, though it's very long.

Stay safe, everyone ❤️

[maj77777]

[chileanhypnotist]

Time for something rude

[howlsofbloodhounds]

killer probably crashes out any time he feels even a tiny bit of guilt that he can’t dissociate from and repress

[thevioletcaptain]

they defied gods to love one another, is the thing. more than that, they resisted the active, focused, targeted influence of gods to love one another.

chuck couldn't stop cas' love for dean.

amara couldn't drown out dean's love for cas.

the oldest, most powerful beings in the multiverse couldn't do a damn thing to make them stop.

[kismetnyx]

Nothing feels as good as giving in to yourself...

Into desire, your true nature...

Freedom is giving up control.

[raineandsky]

#73

(part 1) (part 2) (part 3) (part 4) (part 5) (part 6) (part 7) (part 8) (part 9) (part 10) (part 11)

tw: blood

The late shift was never particularly kind to the villain. It’s when villains are the most active—and so the heroes are more so too. The cover of night is meant to make crime easier, but the heroes are out in droves at this time and the cover of night turns out to, actually, not cover shit.

Their front door clanks shut behind them, a relieved sigh slipping from their lips. Their eyes trace down the hall—to their bedroom, hell yes—and catch their kitchen door swinging shut.

The evening’s tiredness is evaporated in a second. The villain’s hand is inside their coat on instinct, the feeling of the well-loved knife hilt in their hand a much-needed comfort as they start down the hall.

They push the door open slowly, wishing that they oiled its hinges last week. They peer inside from the safety of the hallway—there’s… nothing in there. It’s just as they left it this afternoon. Except, no, wait—

There’s a handprint on their windowsill. Shiny, still wet, and crimson red.

Invisibility is a habit by now. They glide through the kitchen quietly, their footsteps practised, their coat blending them into the gloom, to glance down at the blood staining the wood. They look outside, back in, across the kitchen. What the– this bitch has been in their fridge.

They open it, letting the light blind them momentarily. Well, there’s a lot of food they’re going to have to throw out now. Specks of blood taint most of this. They glance back, the yellowing light brightening the room and their face, and they hear a very muffled, presumably very unintentional, “shit”.

The fridge slams shut and sinks the room back into darkness. There’s a red trail trickled over the tile floor, leading straight to their pantry.

The villain adjusts their knife in their grasp, creeping towards the little cupboard. They pause outside, heaving a heavy sigh in preparation before tugging the door out and thrusting their blade into the darkness beyond. 

“This is no place for a petty thief,” they say whilst their eyes adjust. It’s darker in there without the streetlamps outside invading. “I’m giving you a chance to get out before I cut you to shreds.”

Someone squeaks from inside. “P–Please don’t!” they cry, and the villain squints suspiciously. They can just see the figure of the person pressed into the back of their pantry.

They fumble for the light switch, showering the tiny room in dull light. Of all people the villain expected to rob them, well, they weren’t really expecting to see—

“[Hero]?” they demand incredulously, and the hero winces. They squeak again when the villain gets the mind to shove their knife against their throat. “How the hell do you know where I live?”

“I– I don’t!” the hero cries. “I didn’t know you lived here, I swear!”

The villain narrows their eyes disbelievingly. “So, what? You break into people’s houses now? Doesn’t sound very agency-friendly.”

The hero’s eyes nervously slip to the bloodstained fridge behind them. “I– I’m hiding.”

An admission of weakness. They’re hiding.

Sirens shriek outside. Blue and red dance merrily on the ceiling. “From what?”

“From [Superhero].”

From the superhero. The villain doesn’t doubt that they’re hiding. The hero looks terrified—though they do have a knife slowly drawing blood at their throat, they suppose. But from the superhero?

“Why?”

The hero swallows nervously. They won’t meet the villain’s eye. “I did something wrong,” they say quietly. “Really wrong. [Superhero]’s practically out for my blood now. I can’t be trusted.”

The sound that comes out of the hero is either a laugh or a sob. It’s hard to tell. “So you’re hiding from him,” the villain finishes.

The hero nods before they remember the blade resting on their skin. “Yeah.”

“And so you’re hiding… in my pantry.”

“... Yeah.”

“And you helped yourself to some of my fridge.”

The hero has the decency to flush in embarrassment. “I’ll replace it. I was desperate.”

“Give me one good reason I shouldn’t kill you right now,” the villain says lowly, “or throw you back into the street.”

Clearly the hero didn’t think this far. They lick their lips, their wide-eyed gaze finally meeting the suspicious squint of the villain’s. “I can– I could do something for you?”

“You dying would do me a great favour.”

The hero swallows again, and their stare turns nervously outward again. “I– I don’t know. I don’t have any of my weapons, I’m not dangerous.”

“You get in fist fights.”

“I usually lose those.”

The hero laughs, the sound taut with anxiety. The villain leans away from them slightly, letting their blade sit a little lighter on them. “I have an idea,” they say flatly.

“Yeah,” the hero says instantly.

“I need a maid.” The hero’s face falls slightly at the wording, and the villain grins ecstatically. “I have the clothes. You work on my whim, without snooping, and you can sleep on the sofa.”

“Isn’t there anything less humiliating I could do?” they ask quietly. God no, the villain thinks. The humiliation is part of the fun.

“I could let you stay in my basement,” they offer pointedly, and the hero grimaces, “if you’re so attached to the clothes you’re wearing.”

Sirens whoop outside. The villain glances at the blood trails on the floor. “I’m going to clean this up before your friends inevitably bust the door down,” they say. “We can talk business when I get rid of them. Stay in there. If I so much as hear from you, they can have you. Got it?”

The hero nods numbly. “Yeah.”

And with that, the villain flicks the light off and slams the door on them.

Cleaning is easy enough, though they’ll need to mop later—or the hero will. They turn over a few pieces of furniture, drag a few drawers open, and then they casually let themself out the front door with a giant, full backpack.

The police are exactly where they wanted them. They spot the villain halfway out of the garden.

“Thief!” one of them cries. “Stop in the name of the law!”

The villain turns on their heel and bolts for the back of the house.

This part is easy. Lose the police in the city, wait for them to clear out from their house, loop back home. They’ll never suspect that the villain lives there. God, they’d have some problems if they did.

The next part is the fun one. They have a hero to blackmail—and by god, are they going to use that to their advantage.

Next part

[theharlotofferelden]

Browsing Stardew Valley mods and it occurs to me that there's a lot of people who just. Fundamentally do not understand alcohol addiction.

[ame-to-ame]

still working on tweening and etc but small self-indulgent sneak peek hehe

[creature-wizard]

If programming isn’t real then what happened to me. If programming isn’t real why do I have the conditioned responses due to what happened. If programming isn’t real then why am I the way I am. There’s literally no other explanation.

Basically every alleged symptom of the DID programming process described by the likes of Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler is a likely symptom of something else. Many are potential symptoms of other abuses, including corporal punishment, psychological and emotional manipulation, emotional neglect, and the like. These types of abuses have can have far more profound impacts than many of us realize, especially if we grow up in an environment where they're normalized or where adults assure us that they don't count as "real" abuse.

If anything, the DID alter programming myth functions as a way to scapegoat the trauma from being raised in environments like this onto secret cults of devil worshipers so these kinds of people can go on pretending their own childrearing methods aren't inherently abusive.

Now what I'm going to talk about next, I'm not saying that it necessarily applies to you, but I also can't rule it out, and I figure it's good to mention it in a general sense.

At least some of the alleged symptoms of DID programming are symptoms of growing up autistic in a world that hates autistic people. (I'm not saying that you're necessarily autistic, but I can't rule it out, either.) Many autistic people are put through a cruel conditioning process called applied behavior analysis, which is supposed to make them act like allistic people. Autistic people who can't pretend they're allistic are often shunned and bullied, and develop people-pleasing habits as a consequence. This type of conditioning was never carried out on purpose, and yet it was very much carried out.

We can also internalize shitty things people say both to and around us. (Like adults calling certain types of people worthless and undeserving - but whoops, turns out you're one of those kinds of people.) We can also pick up on implicit messages in media that aren't good for our self-worth (like when a trait you have is overwhelmingly depicted in villains, or when people like you are never depicted as attractive). This can impact us in numerous ways, including exacerbating people-pleasing tendencies.

This thread over here mentions some sources of trauma that are often overlooked.

Editing to add in case this post gets reblogged: This anon chimed in with some excellent points, too.

I think it's a safe guess that your life sucked, and that you were not treated well. One way or another, you were hurt very badly, and you did not get the care or comfort you deserved. But saying that your trauma symptoms can only be explained by the alter programming conspiracy theory is like saying the weather patterns of the Little Ice Age could only be explained by witches. Conspiracy theories appear to explain things, but what they're actually doing is offering false explanations in order to further bigger narratives that target a lot of innocent people.

For more information on the origins of the alter programming conspiracy theory, and how we KNOW it's a conspiracy theory, see this post.

[sysmedsaresexist]

do you have any sources documenting programmed DID?

You know, when I was in school for social work, in order to take the 3 classes on programming, cults, and treatment, I had to have a police check and go through three interviews with faculty. Each semester, this had to be redone. Three interviews, each semester.

There's a reason that a lot of the research and articles about this are hidden behind paywalls and found in specific journals by order to clinic only.

I do have sources, and several are available through Google with proper search terms, if you so desire.

I'm sorry, but I will not be linking any.

TW for the rest of this post. You can stop right here. There's zero reason to keep reading if you already agree.

This is the most I've ever said on this topic and it'll likely be the last.

Remember to mind your spoons and take care of yourselves.

Anyways, support organizations like NCMEC! Let's bring these children home!

Some of the things from my education are still burned into my brain to this day. People can be very sick. The world is a horrible place. The mind is far more malleable than people give it credit for (without even getting close to conspiracy theories).

I would love to offer sources, but this isn't a game I want to play.

I will leave it at this. Dissociative responses start small, and are caused incredibly easily. Training this response in others is easy. This can be accidental or purposeful.

Yes, it is so easy, it can happen accidentally. This is why we needed to be interviewed, because it's so easy that anyone who took that class could go and start fucking people up royally.

I am not exaggerating, I'm not telling a story. If you think it's not possible, you don't understand dissociation at all.

You don't understand how easy it is to plant that first seed of, "just relax," how easy it is to stretch that type of dissociation, and how easy it is to mold it once you notice it happening to your victim. These abusers don't start out trying to cause DID, they're trying to create silent, discrete victims by having them dissociate the discomfort and/or memories away. That happens in a lot of ways and can take a lot of sharp turns.

And so, it happens.

There are organizations that have been doing this for a very long time (particularly within trafficking, that have been in battle with various international police forces for decades) and have it down to an art. The vast majority of the time, DID is an inconvenient accident that they'll still take advantage of, because what else can they do? They want amnesia, not alters. They want complacency, not unpredictability. They want your strength and will to be crushed, not broken off.

But they still want the money. They want the work they put in to pay off.

A lot.

And more often than not, people don't go on to tell their story, unfortunately.

[maj77777]

[chileanhypnotist]

Are you ready to be programmed?

[howlsofbloodhounds]

difference between fresh and killer is probably that something programmed fresh to be the way he is and something programmed killer too but fresh was always fresh and killer was someone else before and he is arguably still not what he was designed to be because who he was is still fighting back

[outnumberedsins]

Programming vs Conditioning

A common miscommunication I've seen inside and outside OEA spaces is the comparison of conditioning and programming. This is only made further complicated by the fact they exist on a similar scale, where not all conditioning is programming, but all programming is conditioning. This post serves to point out the differences between the two. Any sources may contain triggering content.

Programming

the far end of conditioning

The process of programming can be defined as "systematic torture that blocks the victim’s capacity for conscious processing, and then employs suggestion and/or classical and operant conditioning to implant thoughts, directives, and perceptions in the unconscious mind, often in newly-formed trauma-induced dissociated identities, that force the victim to do, feel, think, or perceive things for the purposes of the programmer. The objective is for the victim to follow directives with no conscious awareness." This is also referred to as Trauma-Based Coersive Mind Control, Torture Based Mind Control, or Trauma Based Mind Control (TBMC). [1]

TBMC within the community can refer to things outside of just programming. Because of this, when not referring to programming, the general term 'Mind Control' (MC) will be used to avoid confusion.

Programming uses the dissociative capacity of children, through extreme abuse and suggestion, to create alters to specifically serve the programmers needs. The purpose of programming is to have these alters respond to cues or triggers to make them perform specific acts. Ideally, the victim will not know what's going on, and a majority of the abuse will be hidden from them. [2, pg 437]

Conditioning

a natural process

There are many types of conditioning, however when comparing to programming and MC, we are more than likely referring to Classical, Operant, and Fear Conditioning. [3 pg 69, pg 88-90][4, pg 5 ] For this reason, this is what I'm going to focus on. I'm going to try my best to make this simple to understand!

Conditioning does not have to be purposeful. At its base, it's a natural process all people go through based on their environment. For example, your phone is initially a neutral stimulus, but a notification sound (conditioned stimulus) now triggers an emotional response (conditioned response.) This is an example of classical conditioning. [5]

A very simple definition of Classical Conditioning is "an unconscious process where an automatic, conditioned response becomes associated with a specific stimulus." [6]

A very simple definition of Operant Conditioning is "a method of learning that uses rewards and punishment to modify behavior." [7]

A very simple definition of Fear Conditioning is "when initially neutral stimuli, such as tones, lights, or distinctive environmental settings, are paired with aversive stimuli such as electric shocks or loud noises, which reflexively activate unconditional fear responses." A subset of Classical Conditioning. [8]

Conditioning can be considered the base for all mind control, while not being harmful in itself. Conditioning is a natural process that affects how we react and learn to our environment.

Still confused on the differences? Don't worry, we'll compare them now.

Comparison

All programming is conditioning, but not all conditoning is programming

The most important differences between these two concepts are:

1. Intentional and conscious actions (abuse)

2. The usage of dissociative parts (creating, organizing, programming)

3. Age of victim (Child, adult)

Programmers rely on multiple types of conditoning to control their victims on a higher scale. However, this relies on the creation and use of dissociative parts of a child, while conditoning by itself doesn't.

A good example of this is fear conditoning in PTSD. For example, say someone was attacked (unconditioned stimulus) by a short man (neutral stimulus). They then become fearful of other short men (conditioned response), despite knowing they're of no harm. This also happens in many other disorders, such as other anxiety disorders and OCD. [9]

The conditioned response here was not created purposely, nor did it use dissociative parts, and is possible at any age. This means it doesn't meet the requirements for programming.

But this doesn't account for purposeful actions, as may occur in abuse, so let's go over that next.

Purposeful conditioning (an example for the purposes of thought reform) has been documented in prisoners, war captives, and other abuse victims. [1]. These things are also common in cults and other high control groups, however conditioning can occur outside of organized groups.

An example of this is a victim having a conditioned behavior to 'walk on eggshells' around their abuser to avoid outbursts. In a more extreme example, prisoners of war may go through torture under the hands of their captors. This torture may focus on changing their beliefs or making them act a certian way- however, it would be an example of conditioning, not programming. This is due to the fact that programming must begin at an early age with the usage of dissociative parts. [10][1]

Despite all of this, conditioning can result in symptoms similar to programming, as they are very similar. For example:

1. The urge to go back to abuser(s)

2. False beliefs given by abuser(s)

3. Amnesia regarding abuse

etc..

The difference is the triggers and automatic reactions present in programming won't be possible from conditioning alone. If any pre-requisite isn't established (age, purpose, parts), it is not possible for conditioning to become programming.

--

Tldr: Programming is one of the most complicated versions of mind control. It utilizes conditioning and dissociative parts to make child victims perform automatic tasks according to their abusers. However, conditioning (and mind control) isn't inherently programming. A conditioned victim at any age may perform their abusers commands through terrified submission, religious indoctrination, torture, or other forms of Mind Control. These experiences are similar, but different to programming.

Myths and Misinformation

1. "Accidental' Programming.

1a. Due to the fact that it is possible to accidentally condition a person, some people have taken to assuming that programming can be accidental. This is untrue. All programming is purposeful, organized and conscious by those doing it. An abuser will need to know what they're doing in order for programming to be sucessful. An abuser does not have to know the specific science behind programming to know what they're doing works.

2. Programming is the only type of 'Mind Control.'

2a. Programming is a severe and sophisticated form of mind control, but it is not the only type, and certainly not the only kind that is perpetuated by organized abuse. You do not have to have gone through programming to be included in the 'MC' part of RAMCOA. A couple source I've listed goes into detail, here: [1][4]

3. Programming is 'More valid/More traumatizing/etc' than other types of MC.

3a. There is no valid way to measure or compare trauma. How everyone reacts to stress is different, especially children. Trauma olympics, especially among RAMCOA victims, is unecessary and harmful. You don't even have to had gone through MC to be a RAMCOA victim. Focus on healing and helping yourself- not how bad your trauma is, or how bad anyone elses trauma is.

Thank you for reading. If you have any questions, feel free to send an ask or reply to this post. A reminder that I am not a professional, I am flawed, and am just doing my best.

[sleepyseals]

[Image Description: A digital illustration of Brittle Hollow from Outer Wilds rendered with various pixel brushes. The planet's crust is cracked open revealing the dark magenta geode-like inside of the planet and the black hole at the center. The planet's weak atmosphere is painted in a subtle deep blue. The space around it is filled with stars, some subtly colorful. Hollow's lantern is in the top right corner of the image, a meteor having just erupted from it. Dark Bramble is in the lower right corner, faded and small with distance. End Image Description.]

Brittle hollow I drew with the program tux paint :3 speedpaint link here

+ higher quality closeups: