#potter mash

[a-rayneart]

Kernel Popcorn

[marley-manson]

I would love to hear any "director's commentary" you have on Army Style. It's one of my favorite MASH fics and I love not only the attention to historical details but everyone's characterization.

Thank you for asking! And thank you for the comment, I'm super stoked that it's one of your faves 💖

fic is here

ask meme is here

I basically had the idea when I was disappointed by how the later seasons had way fewer gay jokes than the early seasons lol, and I wanted to headcanon an explanation for that, so I had this idea that Hawkeye had a close call with a blue discharge and started playing it a lot safer afterwards.

I didn't really consider writing a fic though until I started doing a lot of hobby reading on midcentury gay history alongside Mash, and having a lot of thoughts on historical accuracy in fic and feeling like I was getting enough of a sense of the time period that I could maybe do a half decent job at exploring it.

I cited the main book that was my inspiration in the author's notes, Coming Out Under Fire by Allan Bérubé, but in addition to that I was reading like, One Magazine, Gay New York by George Chauncey, old 40s and 50s Canadian tabloid letters to the editor featuring debates about gay rights lol, this site which is a v cool resource, The Lavender Scare by David Johnson, Gay Talk by Bruce Rogers, Letters to One and Masked Voices by Craig Loftin, a little blue book on homosexuality published in like the 20s that I could imagine Hawkeye reading as a kid... not that all of these sources are necessary for authenticity or anything, and I definitely wasn't reading them just for the fic lol I'm not that into research, but I figure a director's commentary is a good place to make a list of various things I happened to be reading that helped inform the fic.

Another motivation for writing this was like... idk, wanting an alternative to fics and headcanons where everyone knows Hawkeye is bi and supports him or looks the other way because the 4077 is one big happy family, but not wanting an angst fest where he gets discharged or everyone turns on him and he loses his friends because now they know, etc. I just kinda felt like the most realistic thing that would happen if someone accused Hawkeye of homosexuality was this - the cast would largely support him but more because they don't believe it, rather than because they're allies or family. And that's its own source of more lowkey, subtle angst, which is my bag baby.

So I guess I have an agenda in wanting to show that Hawkeye isn't really an open secret despite the jokes, largely because he's charismatic and good at making friends and very good at his job. No one would want to believe it.

There's no real dividing line where the jokes have a steep drop off imo, but between seasons 7+8 felt like a natural place to set it, and I liked incorporating the notorious joke with Flagg as an inciting incident.

For a while I was thinking it would be pretty short and just like, Hawkeye being accused and denying it and the rest of the cast vouching for him, all set at the 4077. I considered having him sent to a hospital when I read a section about it in Coming Out Under Fire, but I was like 'nooo that's so much work I don't wanna.'

And then as I wrote it the fic just went that direction anyway so I rolled with it and did my best.

Gonna do a bit of a play by play now, scanning through the fic and seeing what stands out to me to comment on.

-- Hawkeye makes like 3 times as many gay jokes as usual at the start of this fic because a) they're really fun to write, and b) I think it makes sense for Hawkeye who tends to say exactly what's on his mind. It's what he's worried about and thinking about, so it's what keeps coming out of his mouth. Plus I read the jokes in canon as not so much Hawkeye throwing caution to the wind, as Hawkeye knowing that it's a way he can be open to some extent about how he feels - the way he always wants to be emotionally genuine - without actually drawing suspicion. He goes a little overboard but everyone who knows him is like 'yeah not surprised, Hawkeye gonna Hawkeye.' So he's generally right about the jokes being safe.

-- I wanted all of the supporting cast to have a different reaction to the investigation. Radar is the least supportive and most homophobic about it, because honestly that just fits how I see him. He's canonically uncomfortable with a lot of Hawkeye's jokes, sometimes mildly like a long-suffering little brother but sometimes weirdly hostile about it lol. I think he'd believe it's true pretty quick and be disturbed by it, but be swayed by Hawkeye denying it and reminding him of their friendship, because he doesn't want to believe it. Also by this point in the series he's pretty grouchy in general.

-- And I have Klinger as the only one who knows Hawkeye's bi and doesn't give a fuck, because I believe that's true in my soul and I didn't feel like it even needed an explanation lol. But the explanation in my head is that Hawkeye rolled up to the 4077 on his first day, saw Klinger in a dress, thought 'wow that's bold' and asked him where the gay scene on campus is with hardly any deniability in his phrasing. And Klinger was like, lol why does this keep happening, and pointed him to some of the other people who did the exact same thing (including Trapper), and they all have a monthly poker night (which Klinger goes to too even though he insists he's straight.)

-- The interview in general was fun to write. Hawkeye breezing through at first, until the revelation that it's not about Flagg's report throws him off, and then the reminder of Tommy's death sending him into rant mode. Hawkeye's confident and charismatic so it takes something extra to make him fuck up here. It did take a lot of rewriting to feel like it escalated smoothly and made sense emotionally though.

-- I'm kinda proud of the little twist of this fic lol. Hawkeye having already been reported by Tommy's lover ages ago, unbeknownst to him because the dude only knew of him as "Hawkeye" and no one could connect that name to "Benjamin Pierce" until Flagg's report. It was a fun way of using the fact that Hawkeye goes by a nickname as a plot point. It was also a good way of making it so the jokes aren't actually the problem and Hawkeye is right about how they're pretty safe - if it was just Flagg's report it would've been laughed off and thrown away. And it's a way of including the army coercing names out of people, since I didn't have them trying that with Hawkeye at the hospital.

-- “Lieutenant Jacobs is married.” Said with a mild glare at Hawkeye. “Well, I wasn’t exactly planning to propose to her.”

lol I only included this to push back against the common misconception that Hawkeye is morally against sleeping with married women.

-- I had a whole issue with misremembering GFA being set in Tokyo instead of Seoul when I wrote this, so I just wrote with the assumption that Sidney worked at a different hospital and this was a different hospital than the one in GFA so the descriptions were all different, etc, and then I realized my mistake and had to rewrite everything and give a reason for Sidney to be elsewhere lol. On the plus side I got to add in some ominous GFA foreshadowing towards the end.

-- hmmm upon scanning through the fic I've noticed that I had Potter referring to Tommy's boyfriend as 'the kid' at one point, which is kind of funny because I'd used that casual phrasing a couple more times before realizing it could sound kind of skeevy and edited it out. I was envisioning him as like 19-21ish though lol so it makes sense that it slipped through. Anyway everyone's a kid from Potter's perspective, even if he shouldn't know his age.

-- I always wonder about GFA and Hawkeye's claustrophobia, whether he was locked in his room at all. Despite it not being mentioned in GFA I figured I had to address it a little because I like Hawkeye's claustrophobia, so I had Hawkeye feeling a little freaked out but not too bad because it's a big enough ward.

-- I hate writing OCs. I'm not creative, I have zero interest in inventing people, it's a big chore. I usually pick names by looking at bookshelves or lists of people and mixing and matching first and last names at random. Hopefully you can't tell from reading this lol since there are several OCs. I tried to write them pragmatically, to fill a role in the story, and make their vibe consistent. And they're all minor characters so they don't really have to be fleshed out much at least.

-- This was written as a long one shot but when I was finished I figured it would probably be a more approachable read if it was divided into two parts.

-- BJ is awkwardly dancing around the possibility that the accusation is true in his own mind. For me BJ's whole thing is denial lol, I have a few wips from his point of view as well and they're all about him avoiding some kind of truth or revelation. He takes the path of least resistance when he can.

No, if there was even a tiny kernel of truth in the accusation about his friend, it was nothing more than maybe one youthful, experimental indiscretion. Nothing that meant anything about him now, and nothing the army had any business digging up. Radar was just a kid, after all. He didn’t understand the difference.

Also couldn't resist vaguely implying that BJ might've exchanged handjobs with a friend back in the day himself lol.

-- Hawkeye was a happy, confident, successful guy, about as far from the self-loathing, secretive neurotics you read about in the tabloids as you could get.

I also wanted to include this to show how being popular and charismatic and cool could be protection from these accusations. This is something Coming Out Under Fire actually got into - how you were more likely to get accused and discharged if you weren't likeable, whereas funny cool likeable guys got away with camping it up all the time. And the most important thing in the army especially was competence, which Hawkeye also has in spades.

-- The nurses discussion was self indulgent lol, and came out of reading about how widely read and impactful the kinsey report was. DeGroot was a very late addition because I wanted more negative consequences and an example of the witchhunting vibe. Margaret's musing at the end is maybe a little bit redundant after BJ, I realize now lol, since I also kind of imply she had a lesbian experience or two, but it's ambiguous and maybe more easily read as her having had a gay friend. I definitely wasn't aiming for an 'everyone at the 4077 is queer' vibe for this lol, but tbf it's historically accurate for army medical units and the WAC to be statistically very gay.

-- Got to get into some of my Hawkeye headcanons for the interview with McKay, which was fun. I always imagine Daniel Pierce as fairly leftist and cool, which is why Hawkeye is so brash and confident. And Hawkeye has been a popular kid all his life to me, he's no former awkward nerd or wallflower or bullied weird kid. Not homecoming king but friends with him sums his childhood up to me.

-- Not sure Hawkeye should cavalierly mention living in sin with Carlye upon reflection lol, but I don't think it was illegal? Anti-cohabitation laws wrt men and women living together were a thing, but I'm sure would have varied from place to place. I tried to research this once but couldn't find much info though.

-- “Did you imagine marrying her often?” “All the time,” Hawkeye lied. “If she’d said anything before leaving I would’ve proposed on the spot.” That was probably true, honestly. But, with all the clarity of hindsight twice over, he knew it would’ve been a mistake. Carlye wanted things from him that he didn’t have to give; it would’ve dissolved anyway, whether into divorce or into unhappy affairs. She’d probably known that long before he’d figured it out.

My thoughts on their relationship in a nutshell lol. Marriage far from Hawk's mind but something he definitely would've done if she'd asked, and then regretted in short order because they're just not compatible.

-- “Do you want to have children?” “Absolutely.” Whether they were in the cards was anyone’s guess, but given the opportunity he’d order half a dozen.

I see Hawkeye liking kids and potentially wanting kids and being a great father if he had them, but never actually having kids and being fine with that too. And not because of GFA either (though it doesn't help), but because in my headcanons he eventually ends up in a committed relationship with a dude. I have a post-canon wip I will finish where he does find a way to have both, in a way.

-- lol this medical interlude was such a pain to research and write, but I guess I felt like I needed some kind of action so that the whole hospital sequence wasn't just introspection, plus it's an illustration of how poorly they're treated, and how great Hawkeye is in the face of it.

-- Also I really enjoy writing a pissed off Hawkeye pov, his humour gets so biting when he's in a bad mood, and I really lean into that when writing his inner monologue. I might exaggerate that a bit honestly - it happens sometimes in the show, but sometimes he's just humourless when upset. But in my fics he's never humourless lol, unless maybe he's being really emotionally supportive for someone.

-- “I blame the war,” he lied. Blaming the war was like blaming a fire for burning down his house. No, he blamed the arsonists: Truman, MacArthur, America, every army involved, every American Tommy was trying to educate with his book, whoever the hell ordered him into that battle, Tommy’s recruiting officer, Tommy, and his own damn self for not immediately diagnosing him with a heart murmur or sawing off his leg and getting him sent home as soon as he found him in Korea.

I looove the way Hawkeye assigns responsibility to people, rather than treating the war like an inevitability.

-- (oh, sure, he supported the president. He was supplying the guy with half his reading material; he should be earning a salary as Truman's personal entertainer)

Also loooove that it's a recurring thing that Hawkeye writes to the president lol, I absolutely headcanon it as regular stress relief for him.

-- “You know there’s no physiological difference between degenerates and fine, upstanding members of society, right?” he said as he disrobed. “Have you read up on the literature?” the doctor asked, far from innocently. He had, as a matter of fact.

This is a historically accurate depiction of two different professional opinions on the subject, as far as I could tell from my reading, and army doctors did use like hips to waist ratio and various other measurements as evidence of homosexuality. The gag reflex thing is accurate too.

-- I enjoyed how I wrote Potter in this fic as Hawkeye's number one ally but also the representative of the army who Hawkeye doesn't fully trust, and who protects Hawkeye because he's his friend and a good surgeon and an asset to the unit, rather than because he disagrees with the army ideologically. To him it's a stupid thing to care about because Hawkeye is saving lives and investigations are a lot of hassle, but he's not gonna be, like, calling General Imbrie to plead the nurse's case.

There's something weirdly satisfying about writing Potter in general in a "good" role, because I don't like him on the show much and it's fun to kind of subtlely play with his flaws without making him an antagonist.

-- Highlighting the gay ward's party vibe at this point in the story and Hawkeye finding it comforting is mainly a way to make the ending feel worse lol.

And if he did get out of here scot free, then what? Keep his head held high and his sense of humor alive and kicking, or put his head down and just get to the end of the war without losing his surgical career?

The former, he told himself. It had gotten him through almost two years, not just without getting caught, but without losing his mind. One stumble wasn't enough to justify calling off the marathon. And the thought of wrapping himself in olive drab and marching in time with everyone else was so sad it made him want to cry. No. He’d make it through the rest of the war, and he’d do it without changing himself to suit the straight-laced, and just plain straight, sensibilities of his overlords. Then he’d go back home to Boston, take back his old job, and fuck the first guy to look him up and down, just to prove he could.

Like by grouping 'not changing in the army' together with 'going home and fucking a man first thing' I'm implying that Hawkeye's maybe a little overly optimistic here, and the hesitation he ends the fic on might extend back home too.

This is absolutely counter to everything I believe about Hawkeye post war lmao, I 100% envision him living a gay life outside of work, and even in the context of this fic I'd prefer to imagine it as a psychological barrier he'll overcome rather than an ominous omen that he's gonna fully closet himself and live heterosexually ever after, but yk. I also like sadness and misery and the army ruining everything, and that's what this fic is all about, so I gotta at least imply it as a possibility.

-- lol this final good cop bad cop style interview was another very late addition partly so the hospital stay didn't just trail off awkwardly, and partly to parallel the army as a whole. Like the good cop pointedly resembles Potter and Potter even echoes him when he says "who needs the paperwork?"

The point is just that this is a small scale version of what I see happening to Hawkeye throughout the show and this fic, between dad figure Potter and other friendly military faces and the bad cop of military authority behind them, like the whole investigation. He catches the trick in this scene, but on a grander scale he does succumb to that authority more and more as the show goes on, and in this fic ultimately Potter wins a victory over him in a sense with Hawkeye toning himself down to fall in line more.

-- He kept the regulation boxers and socks he’d put on that morning — the underwear he’d arrived in was mixed with the rest of the laundry now, so he figured he was entitled — and everything else went down a laundry chute. “So long,” he sing-songed out loud as he sent them off. “Let’s not meet again.”

lol one of a few ominous GFA references towards the end here as he leaves the hospital (for now)

-- I think my one regret is not having Charles at the welcome back celebration. Honestly I just kinda forgot lol, and his absence feels conspicuous upon re-read.

-- And yeah, love me a bittersweet ending and I think this one was successful. Hawkeye beats the charges, but is confronted with the conditionality of his friendships and cowed into hiding himself a little more along the way. Love that kind of shit.

[tiredandoptimistic]

Ultimate gay ally Sherman T Potter

[stars-bean]

M*A*S*H | 4.15 - "The Price of Tomato Juice"

[c8h14o]

idk. this formatting feels wrong but back to back was crazy

thank you for coming to my ted talk

[hearteyespierce]

[packet-of-staples]

I doodled a bunch of dumb memes for funnies and also to try and get my bearings.

[thegreatsylvando]

[preacherboyd]

MASH | 5x24 Post Op

[duelinthesun]

[handledwithgloves]

in my dreams , you love me back

[marley-manson]

I’ve been going through your mash posts and a lot of what you’ve said has really resonated with me, so I’d like to get your opinion on a couple things;

You’ve made your thoughts on Potter clear, do you like how he was characterised in “Dreams”? Because looking back i think it’s the most negative portrayal of him we see on the show; BJ dreams that he gets interrupted dancing with Peg by Potter handing him surgical tools, causing her to leave him. Klinger dreams that Toledo is deserted and when he pears through a store glass he sees Potter operating on him while motioning for him to come inside. Charles is more subtle (from memory) with Potter being the one to bring in the patient. (There might’ve been something to do with Potter in Father Mulcahy's dream but I can’t remember)

Do you think this should’ve been expanded on more?? Imo it gives a feeling that some of the main cast blame Potter for being in the war/stripped from family/ect. Also I think it really shows how different Henry and Potter are, because if Henry stuck around I cannot imagine that the characters would’ve dreamt of Henry in Potters position.

Also, you’ve mentioned before how B.J. doesn’t seem to like Hawkeye that much but really wants to be liked by Hawkeye, do you think this translates into how B.J. views Hawkeye as a surgeon? Because from the get go the show established that Hawkeye is an incredible surgeon and that even characters that don’t like Hawkeye as a person admire his skills, do you think B.J. is envious of Hawkeyes skill or at least his position as Chief surgeon? Bc imo B.J. has the personality of someone who is used to being the best (e.i. Husband/provider) and so I can imagine him feeling envy of either Hawkeyes ‘ ability and/or his position as chief surgeon.

Anyways I love your writing 💚💚

Thank you so much 💖

YES! Dreams is my favourite episode for Potter, for exactly the reasons you've described. I loooove how sinister he is in BJ, Klinger, and Charles' dreams, especially - and probably most fittingly - Klinger's. (I don't think Potter was in Mulcahy's dream? Not prominently at least, he may have been one of the surgeons in the audience, I don't quite remember.) And yeah, completely agree that Henry would not have been framed like that - he never seemed any more "army" than the draftees, just someone unlucky enough to get stuck with more responsibility.

Potter's own dream is also interesting in how it combines the war with a game at his childhood home, like his identity is irrevocably tied to war, influencing his entire life. It's dark how his dream is the lightest of them all, in a way.

And yeah, I would've loved to see that explored in more episodes. My ideal like, framing of Potter is as an affable villain, or at the very least someone who can occasionally be an antagonist that the draftee characters have to work against at times, who they express some resentment towards, etc. I've mentioned this before but like, even Henry was framed as an antagonist in some episodes, and it's bizarre and disappointing to me that Potter never gets that treatment. The closest he gets is the aforementioned Dreams, and Wheelers and Dealers imo, where he's at least treated as a punchline by the narrative, if not a villain.

It's a shame to me that the show almost always feels like it's laughing with him whenever he eg foils one of Klinger's escape plans, or makes threats to make someone attend a meeting/go to the front/smile more/join a bridge game/etc. Like, in the earlier satirical seasons the fact that the CO can use his authority for petty reasons would itself be a dark joke, but in the later seasons it's just a cute character quirk.

And yeah re: BJ, I think the idea that BJ loves Hawkeye but doesn't necessarily like him all that much, or at least resents a lot of things about him and/or finds aspects of his personality uncomfortable, isn't necessarily how the writers intended us to see their relationship lol, but I'm into it and I think it's a pretty fair extrapolation from a lot of BJ's behaviour, both early and late.

And I do think it makes sense to read him as at least a little jealous of Hawkeye's surgery skills. Like for the most part I think BJ does admire his skills as a surgeon, but I can think of three episodes off the top of my head where BJ demonstrates insecurity over his career, two of which are in relation to Hawkeye (The Young and the Restless, Stars and Stripes, and Heroes).

Heroes in particular does show BJ acting very jealous of Hawkeye in terms of being a doctor, though it's the attention Hawkeye is getting for treating the famous boxer. And Stars and Stripes is BJ lording being asked to write an article over Hawkeye to a very petty degree that imo also suggests jealousy of Hawkeye, in the way he takes weird smug pride in shutting him out.

I wouldn't say jealousy over Hawkeye's surgical skills specifically is a major aspect of BJ's character, more like a little buried resentment and insecurity that rears its head every now and then, because he's the passive aggressive type and buries his negative feelings about everything until they seep out or explode in weird ways, as pretty explicitly shown and discussed in Wheelers and Dealers.

Like, he was fresh from residency when he came to Korea so it makes more sense for him to respect Hawkeye's skills as someone a little bit senior to him and not be like, all that weird about Hawkeye being better than him. But they aren't that far apart in age - I headcanon about 5 years* between them - and Hawkeye is very notably skilled even as a young surgeon just one or two years into his own career, so it's easy to see BJ being a little intimidated and resentful at times.

Thanks for the ask! This was a lot of fun to answer and I appreciate your interest in my thoughts <3 lmk if there's anything else you want to add!

*my reasoning for their ages is: BJ is 28 in Welcome to Korea, drafted directly from residency with one surgical specialty (general surgery). Hawkeye was drafted from working in a hospital and he has two specialties (chest and general), which means 2 two-year surgical residencies under his belt. Add about a year for the first three seasons and he's at least 4 years older than BJ. Then I add one more to make it two years working in Boston post-residency, because why not? I like him mid-30s.

[countesspetofi]

M*A*S*H S04E20, "The Novocaine Mutiny."

Weird people objecting to being called weird since the Korean War.

[maelarkin]

As a kid watching mash it felt like there would never stop being unseen episodes of mash. Sure, occasionally there would be a repeat, but most of the time I would be hearing new jokes and seeing new hijinks every time my father forgot that maybe mash wasn’t appropriate for young children. Now as an adult, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen every episode, but every once and awhile I see one that didn’t make it into the history channel reruns and I begin to wonder if there was really only eleven seasons of mash. And the maybe on some California backlot, there’s people pretending it’s the 80s by pretending it’s the 50s.

[mash4077confessions]

Francis and his fighting Irish spirit