#marley on mash

[marley-manson]

There are about 5 million little throwaway lines and details that keep the oppressive miserable setting at the forefront of the show, but this is one of my favourites.

[marley-manson]

I haven't tallied all the pregnancy jokes on Mash but I actually have tallied all Hawkeye's pregnancy jokes about himself or other men lol.

Hawkeye has 9 about himself, an additional 8 about other guys (patients, Klinger, Frank), and 1 borderline one where he refers to himself and Trapper as "Me and the Missus" while wrapping his arms around Trapper's stomach in classic pregnant wife pose. In gorilla suits.

Also there's Potter's "File a paternity suit!" in Hepatitis to make Hawkeye laugh as a bonus.

Oh wait ETA Hawkeye has 10 referring to himself because I forgot the bit in Life With Father where they discuss the horse like a pregnancy.

rewatching “Kim” last night and I didn’t finish bc I got too tired but within the first half of the episode, they’ve got the exchange above, plus a joke about Radar being pregnant, plus the following:

has someone actually tallied all of the pregnancy jokes made throughout the show - and more specifically, how many times Hawkeye makes those jokes (and even more specifically, how many times does he make them about himself) bc I feel like it needs to be done.

[thelatecaptainpierce]

catch 22 by joseph heller // mash (o.r.)

[nimuetheseawitch]

bj (sorry I'm not familiar enough with your more current fandoms to ask about them lol): 5, 6, 24

No apologies necessary! I love talking about MASH even when I'm not actively in it. Even before my deep obsession came on, my brother joked that every family event, I was guaranteed to turn the conversation to MASH (to be fair, it's something all of us watched, and there's a lot to talk about). And I like talking about MASH with you!

So, BJ.

5. What's the first song that comes to mind when you think about them?

Out of nowhere, the first song that popped into my head was Evil Woman by ELO, but that's not actually a song I associate with BJ. I do, on the other hand, always think of Tegan & Sara's Don't Believe the Things They Tell You (They Lie). I end up with a lot of MASH feelings when I listen to that album (Hey, I'm Just Like You).

6. What's something you have in common with this character?

I, too, talk about my partner a ridiculous amount to people who've never met him. I think it comes from having been long distance for so long - a lot of my friends didn't meet him for years, but he's an important part of my life, so I talk about him a lot. But it can probably get annoying.

24. What other character from another fandom of yours that reminds you of them?

So, I was amused when I got into the Top Gun fandom (oh my god it's been a year of that obsession...) and realized how many ridiculous men with mustaches and Hawaiian shirts I was looking at. And now I'm kinda curious what level of influence MASH might've had on the choice to make Goose like that in the original Top Gun in 1986. Because he has a mustache, the Hawaiian shirt, is kind of a sidekick to the dark haired lady-killer main character, tells a lot of ridiculous jokes, and adores his blonde wife and child. But I see the anger and frustration in Bradley (who has the mustache and shirt as Goose's son in Top Gun: Maverick).

[marley-manson]

The more I think about it the more I adore Hawkeye laughing when Radar walks in on the flu shot in Carry on Hawkeye.

It's just such a delightful reaction. A lesser show might frame it as an embarrassing moment, maybe as comeuppance for his flirting, or just for humour. Hawkeye can make role reversal sex jokes but he wouldn't want anyone actually thinking it's something he does, that would actually be humiliating.

But no when Radar walks in and thinks he's interrupting some kind of sexual moment it's played like his dream punchline, the best possible thing that could've happened in that moment. Zero shame, zero embarrassment, nothing but appreciation for the comic timing. It's so much fun lol, god I love this episode.

[marley-manson]

I did a tiny bit of research on this for a throwaway line in a fic lol and I think it's just a nod to historical accuracy - they were essentially porn mags before obscenity laws loosened up, with just a thin veneer of being lifestyle magazines (particularly in the 50s when most of them were pretty much catering to horny dudes), so I think the intended vibe is that Hawkeye has a collection of the closest stuff you could get to porn through subscription.

And as a fun fact they were also popular with gay men, particularly soldiers with little privacy who needed plausible deniability, because there was equal opportunity nudity in them (though women tended to be posed more erotically).

Are Hawkeye's nudist magazines supposed to be like porn porn and it's just 70s network television depicting the 50s or was there an actual market for just pictures of naked people in various poses.

[gleesongtournament]

[caddyxjellyby]

Unpopular Mash opinion

🔥

I don't buy Hawkeye being insecure about his appearance. I mean, look at Alan Alda. He's six feet tall, he has gorgeous blue eyes, the only thing about him that is unconventionally handsome is his nose which just gives his face character. Sure, he makes some self-deprecating jokes, but jokes are meant to be funny, and I don't think Hawkeye ever comments on his nose (nor does anyone else).

[marley-manson]

Idk if this is quite in the intended spirit, but imo Hawkeye would laugh for like 30 seconds, then turn it into an exaggerated bad porn dialogue style roleplay bit, half to make fun of whoever said it, and half genuinely turned on. Then if this theoretical pwp is kinking on feminization he could get more earnestly into it the hornier he gets and be like ‘hmm maybe this is something worth playing around with more’ after they’re done. Next time he gets straight into “So, [guy I’m fucking], should I be a good girl or a bad girl today?” before blowing him.

He would also jokingly offer to borrow a dress and makeup off Klinger, at which point BJ would get shy and back down, while Trapper would turn it into a challenge. (Yes BJ is the one who often goads Hawkeye in canon but BJ has more sexual hangups and he would especially be a little too into playing heteronormative house and he’d get awkward about it imho. Plus idk that his style of goading Hawkeye is a good match for positive sexual encounters.) (also idk how to characterize any other dudes who might fuck Hawkeye lol)

Aaand if he did end up in a dress, he’d strut around in it and do a full striptease before sex, badly but with a lot of enthusiasm. Idt he’d think of himself as particularly sexy while crossdressing, but if he knew it was doing something for the other guy he’d happily play it up.

This is all assuming it’s something he hasn’t done before, which idt is necessarily a safe assumption lol. Maybe 20 year old Hawkeye getting laid in New York or wherever would be blushy and shy about it at first. Then 30 year old Hawkeye fucks a new guy who’s into feminization and knows exactly how to cater to him. Less initial laughing and more initial raised eyebrows and “oh I see how it is, guess I’ll find some lingere for next time.”

muses about what would happen if someone were to call hawkeye a good girl during a sexy situation

[transgayhawkeyepierce]

Hawkeye is kind of a tough fuck. Like, not in the traditional sense, he's a self identified "coward", he's pretty much always subverting masculinity in some way, he's a jokester, he's emotionally open. But Hawkeye is tough. He's preserving, to an insane degree. The reason why the war hurts him so badly is because of how determined he is to keep his head on straight, not getting worn down to cynicism or detachment or acceptance of the atrocities being committed there. Even when the war breaks him, we see him regain his mind and start to heal, because that's just who Hawkeye is. He's always pushing through. And let's not forget what lengths Hawkeye will go through to help, of what happened to Lacey when he threatened the lives of all those men, of Hawkeye's schemes to get money for the orphanage, or smuggle out prisoners of war. Hawkeye is tough because he loves others and wants to live long enough to make connections with them, because he values his personhood, he's tough because he's kind and will do All he can for a mere stranger. Hawkeye is tough because he is good and that makes his toughness almost untouchable.

[bornforastorm]

mash 3

oh, but of course, my dear!! I know you're not into Hawkeye Loves His Hometown so here is some of the HawkTrap part:

When one bottle of wine is done, Hawkeye opens a second and sits at the kitchen table to drink it. All this drinking leads to wandering to his dad’s office in the back of the house and scrounging around to find the taped letter he’d sent. It takes him half an hour to find the reel-to-reel so he can play it, then he sits on the floor for an hour listening to the tape on repeat. 

Say hello, Trapper. Hello, Trapper– Five parts gin and one moment’s silence for the vermouth– no trouble– hello dad, your son’s no good.

Hearing that voice is a pang, a pinch, that sends him to refill his glass. 

Pang aside (and the pang does subside after the third play through), it’s a nice tape and he’s glad to have it. Hearing Frank makes him smile; it’s almost nice to remember him now, from a distance. On the flip side, it hurts more than he’d expected to hear Henry. He’d thought his heart was almost healed from that loss.  But Trapper… Trapper, who’s featured more than anyone else, who was such a natural part of his life that he comes in and out of his letter to his dad almost without fuss. Did he really think about it at all when he’d made the tape? He didn’t. Back then, he’d thought they would spend the whole war together, and then some. It was obvious that Trapper would be on the tape in the same way it was obvious Trapper was mentioned in written letters, and there was no need to get more than a few words here or there to send to his dad. There would be other chances, of course. For everyone. 

What a laugh. 

That tape recorder stuck around, but they ran out of tape for it almost immediately and couldn’t get more until much, much later. Until Charles arrived with his own tape recorder, in fact. Too late to get more Frank, more Trapper, more Henry.

He listens to the tape over and over, speeding through his own long winded descriptions to hear those few, beloved, crackling phrases and the playful strums from Trapper’s guitar at the end, the few words from Henry and Frank. All with an ear reaching for more. It’s not enough. Why didn’t he record more? Why didn’t he send his dad entire interviews? What he wouldn’t give for five uninterrupted minutes of Trapper John’s voice. For five minutes of Henry Blake’s voice.

Well, he can’t have five minutes more of Henry, no matter how much he wishes he could. What he can have is five more minutes of Trapper John. 

So he cracks. He cracks on the first night of being home alone, one month and four days after getting home from Korea.

He leaves the reel-to-reel still spinning and rushes to his room, finds the last letter Trapper sent– that sad little thing– and dashes down the stairs to the phone. Where he stops dead. He’s been drinking and upstairs he was dreamy and drunk. Now, looking at Trapper’s return address and the phone in front of him, he feels stone sober. The envelope in his hands feels fragile and heavy at once.

He manages to pick up the phone, and having done that first step, the rest is easier. It’s not hard to ask the operator to connect him to Boston, where the Boston operator does some searching to find the number he needs. It’s a long pause, long enough to make him anxious, before the operator tells him she can connect him, and is he ready? 

“Yes, yes,” he says, too fast. “Thank you.”

As the phone rings, he wonders if the Crabapple Cove library has a Boston phonebook. Too late now. He’ll look into it tomorrow, maybe, and as the ring goes on and on he imagines prank calling Charles.

Finally, abruptly, a girl picks up and Hawkeye’s stomach plummets to somewhere near his knees.

“Hello, McIntyre’s,” she snaps.

“Uh, hi.”

Her voice is a little young sounding to be the wife, he thinks. Maybe it’s a sister. Did Trapper have a sister? Did his wife have a sister? There’s so much he was sure he’d never forget about Trap, but now he's faced with something he’s sure he’s forgotten. He should know this. Christ, there’s no way it’s one of the daughters, is there? He remembers their names clearly: Becky and Cathy. He doesn’t exactly remember their ages, but neither of them could be older than ten, surely. Could they?

“Hi. What can I do for ya?” The girl asks him. It sounds like she’s chewing gum.

He has to swallow, hard, to clear the lump in his throat before he can speak. “I’d like to speak to John McIntyre, please.” “Can I tell him who’s calling?” 

There’s the rub, huh? What if Trapper doesn’t want to talk to him? What if he hears his name and shrugs off the phone call, pretends not to be home? What if everything he ever said wasn’t true, and now that he’s stateside and the war is over, he doesn’t want to see Hawkeye, doesn’t want to keep going what they had, even their friendship, and just wants to forget it all ever happened? 

“Uh,” Hawkeye settles on saying. “Benjamin Pierce.” 

“One sec,” the girl says, and then he hears her press the handset to her chest. The rustle of a blouse, the faint beat of her heart. His own heart mirrors hers, but much closer, right up in his throat. This was stupid. He shouldn’t have called.

There’s some noise, some muffled words, a clatter from a distance and then the sound over the phone comes in loud and sharp— that voice, that amazing drawl that Hawkeye had missed more than he’d realized, saying, in a hushed, breathless, somewhat reverent whisper: “Hawk?” 

“Hiya Trap.” He’s trying to sound casual and it sounds so forced it’s ghoulish. “I, uh, I’m sorry to call you at home but—“

He doesn’t have an excuse. There’s no emergency. He just got a little drunk and wanted to hear Trapper’s voice and realized he could.

“Geez, Hawk, I…” He sounds a little shattered, and for a moment the line is silent while they peacefully listen to each other breathe. “When did you get back?” 

[charlesemersonwinchesteriii]

If you already got this from someone and you just haven't answered yet pls ignore, but if no one else asked i want to add klinger+charles for the relationship bingo ask meme

ok I’m getting to this late as FUCK but PLEASE nobody ever hesitate to send me something for an ask game if I get one ask on a topic I will go YIPPEE and if I get 20 asks on the same topic I will go YIIIIIPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anyhow you're indeed the only one around here who shows outside interest in our rarepair insanity, a boon I will remember as long as I live btw. Mx. Smoking Marlene Dietrich I owe you the WORLD

TRIPLE BINGO because they are EVERYTHING. to me.

It’s funny. This is the one duo where I almost do just want to post the bingo and leave it at that. Part of me wants to tell people about this ship SO bad, to give novel-length explanations and justifications and theses. But the other part of me is like you know what. You either Get It or you don’t.

Anyways there are 10000 things to say about Them but one is: I specifically did not fill in “gay af to have a sworn rival” even though it cost me another bingo because one of the most fascinating things about the interactions between these two is that they actually do not have a mutually adversarial relationship--even though that’s what writers usually do with two characters on diametrically opposite ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. 

I’ve been thinking about this a bit because I’ve seen people say things like, “It’s great what a funny duo they turned into when they started out hating each other, haha.” And I get why one would think like this but IMO it’s actually not the case! Charles acts more familiar with Max over time because he does that with everyone--

(Though he’s racist towards Max throughout, of course. Because Charles’ racism never goes away. You know that right. MASH fandom I am putting my hands on your shoulders and asking: You know that, right? I keep seeing people talk about Charles having a character arc and a redemption arc so I’m just. I’m just making sure.)

--but Max has actually been pretty nice to him right from the start, back when Charles’ relationship with basically every character was antagonistic. As soon as s6e13 he tells Charles how similar they are, how they should work together to try and get away from the war, how they’re “soulmates”. Even after Charles insults him, he straight up says, “I’m on your side, Major”, which I’m pretty sure remains one of the nicest things someone canonically says to Charles, ever. Just one scene, but emblematic of a greater whole, of quite a few future scenes where Max gamely engages with Charles even when it puts him in unpleasant situations.

And of course, the motivation the show usually gives, on those occasions when it thinks about Maxwell’s motivations at all, is a simple throwaway “Well Charles is paying him / giving him some other material benefit, so obviously Klinger will be his kicked dog! You all know how Middle Eastern people are! We are a groundbreakingly progressive show btw.”

But man. Fuck that shit. This is far afield of my original point but the thing is, Max’s interactions with Charles are often the most egregious exempla of every way the later seasons fucked over my girl here. It almost seems useless to try to analyze any of Max’s actions after a certain point from a Watsonian perspective, when the Doylist reading of the show being too racist and stupid to do anything coherent with him is the ultimate explanation, and sometimes the only explanation you can even come up with, because shit just makes NO fucking sense in-universe. 

But unfortunately I’m a stupid cringe ass fanfic writer/reader, and I love this character, and Max already gets so little screentime compared to the main protagonists, and I don’t want to just ignore him because of the decisions of writers who didn’t care about him.

(That’s the entire reason I started shipping this stupid thing in the first place, btw. I just wanted to read some fanfic where Max is the main character and idk if you’ve noticed but if it weren’t for AO3 user stateofintegrity and their ~problematic cringe ship~, the pickings would be pretty fucking slim.)

So I like to pretend there’s a better reason for Maxwell going from “Major Burns I hate you so fucking much I am going to kill us both with this fucking grenade” to the equivalent of a tumblr blog responding to pathetic anon hate with “are we about to have sex”. After all, if you’re going to write Maxwell yourself, get inside his head and all, then you also have to account for why he tolerates all the OTHER characters’ racism towards him in later seasons, too. 

And the messy problematic reasoning I come up with is that Max is at heart the kindest and also most emotionally intelligent character on the show, and even the liberalized version of the 1950s our story is set in is a systemically bigoted universe that is all he’s ever known and experienced, and he’s certain these are good people, really, when it matters. And being emotionally intelligent, and generally intelligent too for that fucking matter, and observant and insightful, he can tell there’s a big difference between Frank and Charles, and perhaps less of a difference, even, between Charles and Hawkeye. Maybe when you watch things from Hawkeye’s POV, the ideological and moral differences between him and Charles are huge, but maybe if you were in Max’s POV instead there wouldn’t be quite as much of a distinction between them. I don’t know! I don’t know. Just some ideas, I don’t know. 

Of course getting into fucking. internalized racism and such is pretty uncomfy and exhausting shit. And that’s not even touching all the gender stuff my girl has going on. You start to see why nobody wants to get into this character’s head much. But I do :3 And I do honestly think sometimes the most effective way to do that is to look at the Messiest Ship In All Of MASH (TM). As I’ve talked about before from the Charles angle, I love this ship precisely because of its Problems, because they’re problems that exist anyways for both characters, and having the two of them interact makes the problems impossible to ignore, so they maybe finally get to be dealt with. I mean, I just don’t think the optimal resolution to Charles and Max’s racism-laden interactions is that Charles goes back home to a big opulent house and Max struggles to save up to buy a used car in After M*A*S*H. That is not super satisfying. to me. 

This post got derailed to hell but I think what I was trying to say is that Max treats Charles SO much better than that bastard man deserves and I would at least like to see something come of it, for the love of--

[marley-manson]

I'm only a fan in certain ways lol so this may have more of an emphasis on their relationship flaws and toxicity than another fan's list, but it's still shippy, and I aimed for a decent balance.

Ain't Love Grand: Hawk/BJ as the successful "couple" despite their surface differences paralleled/contrasted with two genuinely incompatible couples.

The Joker Is Wild: Trapper complex, top/bottom jokes, pigtail pulling perhaps, the fucked up weirdness that makes them compelling.

Peace on Us: The red party, aka BJ at his most supportive.

Period of Adjustment: Well it's my shippiest episode lol. BJ's insecurity about being Trapper's replacement paralleled to his insecurity about being replaceable to his family (ie how easily his daughter confused Radar for him) is nicely homoerotic, and I love the more toxic aspects of their relationship which this episode clearly focuses on.

Where There's a Will, There's a War: BJ fretting about Hawkeye, Hawkeye having difficulty coming up with something to leave BJ that symbolizes what BJ means to him, and the nicely homoerotic ending, ie BJ half wakes up and sees Hawkeye and says "remind me to give you a kiss in the morning" because he's been worried about him all day and he's glad to see him, but Hawkeye assumes he's dreaming about his wife and this assumption leads to his revelation about what to leave BJ in his will, prioritizing BJ's family. It's a disconnect between them that feels very homoerotic to me at this point in the story. BJ focusing solely on Hawkeye and Hawkeye mistaking it for his obsession with his wife and kid... good suff.

Oh How We Danced: Opening with a joke about Hawkeye standing in for Peg for BJ's anniversary, ending with someone else literally standing in for Peg while Hawkeye watches from the sidelines after giving him the most thoughtful anniversary present anyone's ever given anyone ever.

GFA: Their relationship is the most prominent with the final climactic goodbye, it's largely about their issues but in a way that's fun because again, I'm all about the flaws wrt shipping them. BJ doesn't want to admit he'll probably never see Hawkeye again, gets weird when he's drunk at the goodbye party and telling a joking story about cheating on his wife. Intriguing stuff. ETA whoops I missed that you also said discounting the last. Oh well, pretend Comrades in Arms is my choice here then I guess.

Hanky Panky: Because I feel like it serves as a good gay explanation for why BJ doesn't support Hawkeye emotionally very much if you want a nicer and homoerotic explanation for that, ie last time he was someone's shoulder to lean on he cheated on his wife. Plus a couple of gay jokes, and a neat parallel wrt BJ asking Donovan to open up to him and Hawkeye asking BJ to open up to him.

The Yalu Brick Road: Hawkeye makes a good joke comparing the North Korean who surrendered to an old girlfriend's sibling who tagged along with them and killed the mood, plus in general they've got a comfortable bickery married couple vibe here.

Rally Round the Flagg, Boys: BJ being a condescending dick about how he's so much more cool and rational than Hawkeye, and proving himself hypocritical by saving Hawkeye from an angry patient at the end more violently than necessary.

Bonus: The Grim Reaper for being the very first episode that made me start shipping them because it's one of BJ's first condescending dick episodes lol; Comrades in Arms for BJ fretting about Hawkeye; The Kids for Hawkeye's first sappy very loving look at BJ when he tells the story to the orphans... probably others where they seem happy and married-couple-esque together but I don't have a good memory for those.

Okay. BJ/Hawkeye fans only. This is a very serious research question which I will very much need an answer to fairly soon.

Ten best Hawkeye/BJ episodes. Give reasons for your choice. ("Welcome to Korea" does not count, I've watched that a lot and it's mostly BJ following Hawkeye around like a little lost duck.)

Seriously. Discounting the first and the last, "Welcome to Korea" and "Goodbye Farewell Amen", supposing you wanted to convince someone who wasn't a BJ/Hawkeye shipper that this is the ship, which 10 episodes would you want them to watch?

[nimuetheseawitch]

Hawkeye+Margaret, Klinger+Soon-Lee

Hawkeye+Margaret

I love them, so much, but I ship them platonically, mostly. They are enemies they are friends they are queer and supporting each other and they express love the same ways.

Klinger+Soon Lee

My favorite. They were made for each other and Soon Lee wants to see Klinger in his wedding dress. I could talk about them for hours. They are perfect and deserve happiness.

[marley-manson]

one fun thing about George is that they actually show how Hawkeye's style of joking functions as a beacon for gay people. Like, George laughing at his gay slang tourist joke is a hint that he's gay before the reveal, and Hawkeye signals himself as relatable and safe by making an interior decorator joke and referencing his own inability to throw a football during their conversation

like is that not all the precedent you need to take eg "Someone's gonna have to get me pregnant first" in Welcome to Korea as Hawkeye sussing out whether BJ's down to fuck? or yk, Hawkeye's vibe in general as announcing to anyone whose radar can understand it that he's looking for guys to hook up with? you don't even need to understand how gay guys found each other in similar ways in the real world to make this connection, it's all technically there in the show itself

[gleesongtournament]

Glee Song Tournament Round 2