#philip gorski

[racefortheironthrone]

I’ve heard that nationalism, which is to say the idea of a larger abstract national identity, was t really a thing until 1500s generally. It probably built over time, and it seems that mid to late 1800s w a lot of unification movements, nationalist platforms, reforms, conquests invasions civil wars etc , a few counties in that period were United into a national identity into the country image they’re generally thought of today.

What I’m wondering, if this is something you’re familiar with, is if you have any recommended reading for this period of 1800s?

I am very interested in seeing how those nationalist sentiments were used to build these coalitions into countries in that newly budding global age

Thank you!

I tend to favor a much earlier date or at least I think we need to give more weight to proto-nationalism as a phenomenon, because I think there's a slight teleological mistake that's made in assuming that national identity has to go hand-in-hand with a national state.

Whether it's in the Hundred Years War or wars for independence in Scotland, Wales, Ireland, or what have you, there was a long period prior to the 1500s where quite local identities could co-exist with a strong negative polarization against outgroups. You might think of yourself as a MacDonald first and a Scot second, but no matter how much you hated the Campbells you knew they weren't English, or you could be a Guelph and simultaneously be a local patriot and want to keep the German Emperor out of Italy, or be Machiavelli and be a devoted Florentine republican but also believe in uniting Italy against the Spanish and the French.

In terms of book recommendations:

Imagined Communities is a must-read.

Greenfield and Breuilly are also good.

I think Hobsawm's work on nationalism is classic.

I would also recommend Moggach and Leduc as well as Mark Traugott on the interplay between nationalism and socialism in 1848.

EDIT: Ernest Gellner in Nations and Nationalism is a very important text, but I would recommend reading him together with his major critic Philip Gorski ("The Mosaic Moment: An Early Modernist Critique of Modernist Theories of Nationalism").

[mariacallous]

Was America founded as a Christian nation or a secular democracy? Neither, argues Philip Gorski in American Covenant. What the founders envisioned was a prophetic republic that would weave together the ethical vision of the Hebrew prophets and the Western political heritage of civic republicanism. In this eye-opening book, Gorski shows why this civil religious tradition is now in peril—and with it the American experiment.

American Covenant traces the history of prophetic republicanism from the Puritan era to today, providing insightful portraits of figures ranging from John Winthrop and W.E.B. Du Bois to Jerry Falwell, Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama. Featuring a new preface by the author, this incisive book demonstrates how half a century of culture war has drowned out the quieter voices of the vital center, and demonstrates that if we are to rebuild that center, we must recover the civil religious tradition on which the republic was founded.

[ribombeee]

2022 reads!

(*) = reread, (^) = for school, ratings are from 1 to 5

1. shipbreaking — robin beth schaer — 3

2. her body and other parties — carmen machado — 5

3. the left hand of darkness — ursula le guin — 5

4. the benevolent sisters of charity — sam johns — 3.5

5. good omens — neil gaiman and terry pratchett — 4

6. dark matter — michelle paver — 2.5

7. dancing in odessa — ilya kaminsky — 3.5

8. the math campers — dan chiasson — 4

9. gideon the ninth* — tamsyn muir — 5

10. ghost wall — sarah moss — 4

11. harrow the ninth* — tamsyn muir — 5

12. maurice* — e.m. forster — 5

13. strangers on a train — patricia highsmith — 3.5

14. their eyes were watching god — zora neale hurston (school) — 3

15. the terror — dan simmons — 3

16. universal harvester — john darnielle — 4

17. piranesi — susannah clarke — 4

18. in the dream house — carmen machado — 5

19. when i grow up: the lost autobiographies of six yiddish teenagers — ken krimstein — 5

20. the book of delights — ross gay — 4

21. wolf in white van — john darnielle — 4

22. station eleven^ — emily st. john mandel — 3

23. the norton book of science fiction — ursula le guin and brian atteberry — 3.5

24. the apparitionists — peter manseau — 4.5

25. annihilation — jeff vandermeer — 4

26. are you my mother? — alison bechdel — 4

27. the other wind — ursula le guin — 5

28. soft science — franny choi — 4

29. house of leaves — mark danielewski — 4.5

30. gustav klimt: art nouveau & the vienna secessionists — michael kerrigan — 4

31. orsinian tales — ursula le guin — 3

32. all systems red — martha wells — 5

33. the color of magic — terry pratchett — 4

34. any way the wind blows — rainbow rowell — 2.5

35. freshwater — akwaeke emezi — 4

36. christine — stephen king — 1.5

37. dracula — bram stoker — 2.5

38. ancillary justice — ann leckie — 5

39. authority — jeff vandermeer — 4

40. collected short stories of e.m. forster — e.m. forster — 5

41. non-places: introduction to an anthropology of supermodernity — marc augé — 4

42. every imagined tundra — elisa rowe — 4

43. gilgamesh — herbert mason — 3.5

44. mortal trash — kim addonizio — 4

45. small black box — mary rose manspeaker — 3.5

46. oranges are not the only fruit — jeanette winterson — 4.5

47. hangsaman — shirley jackson — 4

48. essays against publishing — jamie berrout, isobel bess — 4

49. nona the ninth — tamsyn muir — 4.5

50. surviving james dean — william bast — 4

51. cat’s cradle — kurt vonnegut — 3.5

52. the odyssey^ — homer tr. emily wilson — 3

53. nightwing volume 1: traps and trapezes — kyle higgins and eddy barrows — 1

54. booster gold: the big fall — dan jurgens and mike decarlo — 4.5

55. antigone^ — sophocles — 3

56. flag and the cross: white christian nationalism and the threat to american democracy^ — philip gorsky and samuel perry — 3.5

57. it — stephen king — 2

58. and then the gray heaven — r.e. katz

59. redacted school book^

60. the runaway restaurant — tessa yang — 4

61. redacted school book^

62. the historian — elizabeth kostova — 3

63. how we became human — joy harjo — 3.5

64. against paranoid nationalism — ghassan hage — 4

65. cities — william carney — 3

[mashley36]

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[candont]

A worldview that boils down to “Freedom for people like us — “us” being, above all, straight, white, native-born Christian men — order for everybody else, which means racial and gender order above all else, and that kind of righteous violence directed against anybody who violates that order “ will neither see nor care about its own hypocrisy

[holyhellphilip]

Me: stanning a dead show

[dahlia-coccinea]

A few thoughts on Rachel Ablow’s essay: she perfectly frames that while Cathy does have sway over others, she lacks a true autonomous power within society, outside of her ability to make a socially advantageous marriage. She doesn’t have the opportunity Heathcliff has to go and make her fortune, nor can she inherit and be given political power like Edgar. She can only peripherally have this power through her marriage and to what the time period termed “female influence”. To contextualize “female influence,” it’s the idea that women held such influence on men that it was equivalent to actual civil rights (???). Ablow quotes author Thomas Henry Lister (1800-1842) who was against female liberation and said of “female influence”, "the question is not whether direct influence shall be substituted for the indirect, but whether it shall be superadded.” This is something I’ve seen in other writings around this time period (and unfortunately I’ve heard echoed to this day). 

So, Ablow makes clear how Catherine is excluded from true authority and political clout of any kind - and yet sides with the “Cathy only loves those who obey her” narrative, saying:

"Catherine has no real power, after all; what she saw as power, her supposed slaves appear to have seen as nothing more than requests they might or might not choose to fulfill. And at the moment when Catherine recognizes this fact, she is forced, too, to recognize her insanity.”

(Side note: calling Heathcliff and Edgar her “slaves” bothers the heck out me). She expands on this later saying:

"Catherine's madness thus reveals the double bind the married woman faces, having to choose between being delusional (believing she has power when she does not) or being insane (experiencing and recognizing the truth of her subjection).

Therefore it is not: “...the product of her recognition of her mistake in marrying Edgar (Raymond Williams), her inability to separate herself from Heathcliff (Philip Wion), her attempts to starve herself to heath (Susan Gorsky, Michelle Masse), or her dread of the coming birth of her child (Margaret Homans).”

I can’t agree with this because Catherine’s lack of power is something she recognizes and Abow’s argument paints her unnecessarily as a narcissist like so many others do...Literally, sentences ago Ablow points out how Catherine is aware of her position and that is what makes her marriage to Edgar inevitable in her mind. Yes, she declares: “I have such faith in Linton’s love, that I believe I might kill him, and he wouldn’t wish to retaliate.” But that doesn’t negate her understanding that she toes the line with welcoming Heathcliff (and simply hurting Edgar unfairly) when Nelly says she “deemed it judicious to moderate her expressions of pleasure in receiving him.” 

Ablow also picks the quotation of Cathy speaking to Isabella about her relationship with Heathcliff: “I never say to him, 'Let this or that enemy alone, because it would be ungenerous or cruel to harm them;' I say, 'Let them alone, because I should hate them to be wronged,” to say that shows her faith in her ability to command those around her - but ignores the later on in that same conversation: “I’m his friend—so much so, that had he thought seriously to catch you, I should, perhaps, have held my tongue, and let you fall into his trap.” Catherine’s relationship is not so one-sided. I don’t see why we should doubt her words here as she does care for Isabella and Isabella does (except for during her obsession with Heathcliff) love Catherine. 

Also, this shifts any blame from the other characters onto Catherine for no reason. Edgar IS wrong for blaming Isabella’s immature actions on Catherine. Heathcliff IS wrong to pursue Isabella with the intent to hurt her and Edgar. Isabella IS wrong to fetishize Heathcliff and be uncivil towards Catherine.

I would say that her ensuing madness is (among other things) brought about by Edgar casting Heathcliff out. That is at least the catalyst. I believe it is twice she mentions the desire to break both of their hearts - right after the argument she says “I’ll try to break their hearts by breaking my own.” and then again on her deathbed to Heathcliff she references this saying: “You and Edgar have broken my heart, Heathcliff!” But her focus is definitely on revenge against Edgar. She repeatedly states sentiments like: “If I were only sure it would kill him,” she interrupted, “I’d kill myself directly.” and she does reject him (although he seems to ignore it and just blame it on her mental instability) when she says: “What you touch at present you may have; but my soul will be on that hill top before you lay hands on me again. I don’t want you, Edgar: I’m past wanting you.” This is a stark contrast from her feeling towards Heathcliff, who even though he disobeyed her she says: “But, Heathcliff, if I dare you now, will you venture? If you do, I’ll keep you. I’ll not lie there by myself: they may bury me twelve feet deep, and throw the church down over me, but I won’t rest till you are with me. I never will!” Her acceptance of him even after he is a “brute” towards her is another bit of evidence that her love isn’t based solely on obedience...

[ribombeee]

[tlberry]

I would argue that we're still working on slavery and those pesky nazis are still EVERYWHERE, but the point is still pertinent...