#ouat s7 theory

[crowfromfoggyforest]

Oh my god. I just realized something. I think i'm onto something. This is wild. I finished watching s6 of ouat over a month ago, and i just saw a random rumbelle post, and something clicked in my brain.

Lacey liked Rumple's dark side, but he still wanted Belle. We already knew that.

Belle kept wanting Rumple to become someone else, she couldn't accept him the way he was. We knew that too.

Rumple says he loves Belle because she sees the good in him. But in later seasons, he realized that he felt unable to become who she wanted him to be. He accepted who he was, didn't want to change anymore, but still loved Belle for seeing him as a better man than he actually was. For putting hopes in him that would be dissapointed again and again.

That's not a positive thing. That's not "you make me believe in myself and in my ability to change." He's convinced he won't change. He knows he will only cause them both pain. And he loves that pain.

You can't convince me otherwise, Rumple has deep-rooted self-hatred. He thinks he deserves to suffer. His love for Belle isn't positive. It's masochistic. He unconsciously uses it to punish himself. He can tell himself he has accepted his dark side all he wants, deep down, he still hates himself for not being able to change. And he wants Belle to remind him of this. He gets a bitter satisfaction out of dissapointing her again and again. "See? I'm a failure. No one could ever love me for who i am."

[wicked-storybrooke]

Gothel knew so much about Alice and Killian's lives in the tower. But how? I can't stop imagining her hovering in the air and peeping over the windowsill or through one of those scooby doo-style portraits with eyes. Or maybe she was on the ceiling the whole time :O!

My best guess is that she communicated to Alice through her dreams or could telepathically gather information that way. Or it could be that she's just telepathic at all times, as she seems to have the psionic ability to control minds (like the Desk Sergeant).

What do you think is most likely @fairytalepsuedonym ?

[queenofglassbeliever]

The Bullshit:

Does anyone remember the storyline where Cora was going to marry Leopold? But then Eva revealed Cora's secret that she was pregnant with another man's child?

I'm thinking something along those lines.

Cecelia, Ella's mother, -

- was briefly married to the King of Maldonia.

It was an arranged marriage and the King of Maldonia suddenly ended it. He then married the woman he truly loved, who then became Queen of Maldonia.

However Cecelia was already pregnant with the King's child. Cecelia had Ella. The King and Queen had Naveen (and another son). TBH, I haven't thought about what follows or details, but I would say that Ella could be familiar with the word "Maldonia."

Perhaps she would've grown up being told that she's the rightful heir? The lost princess of Maldonia?

Ella and Naveen as half-siblings?

*op has no actual information it's just bullshit they make up.

[priscilla9993]

@wicked-storybrooke Going off of your thoughts, “One minute it seems we're meant to believe that even the great height of the tower isn't enough distance (otherwise he could have spoken to her from there) and the next he's merely a few feet away from her in the letter scene. It could be that physical obstructions hinder the curse's full effects (e.g. "fewer trees and walls in our way")”, I feel the exact same way on the latter.

@fairytalepsuedonym gonna reach and try to rationalize the passing of the letter

I wonder if Gothel amplified Alice’s screams for help that sounded like deafening echoes for Killian to hear after he got tossed out, another form of torment. Wouldn’t put it past her as I still think what young Alice screamed was a bit ooc. I remember reading an Ouat blueprint on the tower being around 80 ft, a scaled drawing of Alice, the Troll, and the tower somewhere. I know from playing with my brothers in a forest/national park once, that across about 24 ft, we could yell at each other and hear the sound, but not make out a word. I think it’s easier to hear a person from above yelling down than it is from below, although the accuracy with nature is a confounding variable (i.e. wind, animals, bug noises, tree density). 

The radius of the poisoned heart curse is another thing to factor. I agree with your headcanon, having also thought the same myself, that time + distance apart loosens the poisonous barrier temporarily. We can document 7x08, 10, 13, 20, 21, and 22 as clear indicators. I got long food for thought about this so it’s going under the break.

7x08

Killian and Alice reunite for the first time in ages, him magically younger and her all grown up. They get up the closest they’ve been in ages, maybe about two or three arms length away for caution and he’s fine. *cue cute hug that turns into dramatic whump and sadness* Alice couldn’t even stand the same meters away from him, and even while running away, he was still clutching his chest and screaming out in pain, groaning as the poison ravaged through his heart, restarting what he hadn’t felt in ages. 

We see Killian later on a cot of warm furs in a tent, still weak and needing to be watched over. Alice is nowhere near, entirely in another realm and yet we can see how much their short embrace had cost him. He’s unable to move and seemingly strained in his efforts of just putting his thoughts together, barely mustering whispers as he clutched the White Knight chess piece Ella handed to him. In typical Jones fashion, he tries to be a fortitude of strength, stating that he’d “go through that pain a thousand times over, just to see her again.” I’d assume he was in bedrest for a week, even with healing magic used on him, grumbling that he was fine while his heart was permanently closer to the end of its lifespan.

7x10

Alice stands nearby, hiding behind a tree as he draws near, Rumple making light to her presence. The father and daughter are close once more, our timeline being at least over eight years since he had the poison reinvigorated drawing him back. I reckon they are no more than eight feet apart, but it’s the least of their concerns with the notion of a casted dark curse looming over them. They’ve corresponded so much over paper that Alice is empty handed for him. Killian manages to talk to her without immediately screaming out in pain as she exchanges worries and he comforts her. Robin’s special letter from Alice is passed, one where she dropped and made more distance as he picked it up and they went back to a tree in the way, them as parallel lines seesaw. Even in the dark midst, they still manage to bring light to the situation, hoping that with the curse, they’ll be able to meet again as Alice puts it, “With fewer trees and walls in the way.” 

7x13 and 19

Tilly is entranced in a spell, unable to get free of the world changing casting and nor does she want to. Rogers tries to pull her away from the circle, knowing she would never want anything to do with it, being part of the Witch’s schemes. He even uses the word himself, having seen unexplainable things in the slums of the theater. He’s safe, protected by being in a world without magic, that is until he touches Tilly, the magical barrier broken and seeping into him enough magical particles to revitalize the poison in his heart. Rogers is drenched in pain, barely able to walk himself out of there, and that’s how strong the volatile curse is, an example of how it worked in our world.

When Killian and Alice are first cursed, her branded and him marked by the green glow on his chest, he still feels extreme pain after being teleported to the base of the tower, a distance away too. Probably the nicest thing Gothel ever did for him, ironically saving his life bc I don’t think he could, mentally or physically, have scaled the wall well in his crumpled painful state, tirelessly focused on breathing. We see Killian is barely able to stand, propped on his knees, where we can only assume he hobbled away in pain, making promises to himself and Alice that he’d be back. Clearly impossible as he could never find her again until after she had escaped.

7x20

They’re all awake after Henry and Regina’s parental TLK, but Killian took a stand by holding Alice’s hand and being by her side during the magical showdown with Gothel. Much as the man said Alice was “making him stronger”, we can see him resisting the phenomenal pain to give her courage to fight her very real nightmare. The toll leads to him being wheeled onto a gurney to the hospital, dispatched after some time as the doctors surely couldn’t do more than stabilize what probably seemed like a heart attack. Killian goes through a lot... 

7x21 and 22

Survivor he may be, but he can’t deny that Lady Luck was on his side. Killian’s time was ticking and he knew it. The whump in this made my heart soar and cry. Henry knocking him out with a candelabra and Captain Floor returns, nearly freezing to death, ah, where were we? Right, Poison Heart Curse detectives we are here. ;) At the grand table, strategy planning room, there was no doubt that there was enough distance between him and Alice for the finale episodes. Heck, he gets freed from a winter landscape/snow globe conundrum only to get hit with poison from her just stepping a foot closer in the wide library room span. 

So umm, yeah, Killian stands a distance away from the round table. Alice eventually joins a mission of what should have been just a trio team of him, Robin, and Henry, failing to be “good at keeping far away enough for safety”, a grimace on his face. 😐 Oh boy, this cannot be good as he struggles to fight and stand with Robin by his side later, Alice being far away with Henry to save Regina (at a dungeon in the middle of a forest?). Killian is full of sweat and worry, happy to give his blessing at Robin’s proposal to marry Alice, but he fears his life is at its end, believing his heart will give out before walking his little girl down the aisle. The last straw and burst of poison takes hold the moment he risks his life in the dark book, portal sucking scene, grabbing hold of Alice and making sure she never has to suffer a lonely fate of towers again. (It might have been an ice biome/Arendelle from the props but I’m disregarding that as a worst fate). 

Thankfully, our Rumple values them over his own life, seeing it as a win win since he was ready to either be with Belle or have to repent in hell for his crimes. Killian gets revived and hugs his Starfish, rocking her gently. (I will never get over that we were robbed of this being longer than two secs and that change in dress up of them at Granny’s.) The Poisoned Heart Curse can haunt them no more. 

[queenofseelie]

OUAT Season 7 Theory:

So we’ve heard that Henry calls for help, and Killian, Regina, and Rumple are the ones who come. And wel’ve also heard that they’ll have new identities. So, I think a pretty safe conclusion is that they go, and then get cursed. The next question is, why do they go, and no one else? Let’s start with Snowing. At the end of season 6, they had a baby. I don’t know how many years it’s been, but they probably still have a child to care for, and maybe they’ve even had more since then. I think maybe they’ve retired to their farm, and are done heroing. Zelena - Zelena’s connection to Henry isn’t quite as strong, and she probably also still has a child to raise. Rumbelle - In the s6 finale, they also had a baby. So flash forward at least 10 years, and I guess Belle stays to care for their child, while Rumple goes to help Henry. Henry is his grandson. Although, I can’t help but wonder, if this won’t be more about Neal than Henry, the way it was when Rumple went to Neverland in s3. Regina - At the end of season 6, Henry was Regina’s main priority. She had no love interest, and no other children. For her there’s nothing stopping her from going to help her son. Captain Swan - It makes sense for Killian to go help his stepson. The two are clearly very close. The question here is why didn’t Emma go? I’ve given it some thought, and I’m forced to conclude that the only reasons Emma wouldn’t go are if she was dead, under a sleeping curse, or she was needed desperately in Storybrooke. Which in turn makes me wonder (and hope!!!) if the reason she can’t come is the same as most everyone else’s? If she has a child to raise or is pregnant. In which case, you would assume that Killian isn’t going just for himself, but also in Emma’s place, kind of as a representative. I know the idea of Emma staying home to raise babies isn’t going to sit well with some, but I think it’s better than the other options. Any thoughts on any of this?

[ryik-the-writer]

So here’s an idea I’ve been thinking about lately: What if Wish!Henry had been the bad guy in S7?

Season 6 sets up his motivation: get revenge on Regina for killing his grandparents/stealing his mother away.

Wish!Henry is suddenly ruler of an entire kingdom at 14/15 years old, grieving and in need of direction. With Grandpa!Rumple acting as a devil on his shoulder, he gives into his hate like Regina did.

So everything is going the same as it did in S7, Lucy takes OG!Henry to Hyperion Heights to break the curse with Victoria and Ivy still acting as the antagonists...

But instead of Gothel (no, this does not mean Alice wouldn’t have existed, the writers could find another origin story for her IDC) Wish!Henry is the villain behind the scenes, having cast the curse to tear Regina/OG!Henry from their family like he was from his.

Near the end, it’s Henry who killed Facilier and who brought Rumple into HH for the final. The plan is still the same: trap everyone in their unhappy ending, and it’s still Regina’s love that helps him see reason.

The ending could take many shapes, but I think having one consecutive villain in the show’s final season...a MAIN character at that...would have done a lot better than the four(?) we had. 

Any thoughts?

[lancastrianwasian]

The Hooks’ mother being the Queen of Hearts, the Red Queen, or Morgan le Fay (yes, I’m calling her Morgan, thank you, Fate franchise) has always been my favorite headcanon for Harry and his sisters.

wait, if we go by the OUAT theory that Milah is Harry's mom... wouldn't that make Harry, Neal's half-brother , Ben's uncle (since Rumple is the Beast, Fairy Cinderella's (blonde Ella, not s7 Ella) Fairy Godmother, and the crocodile in the series) , and Henry's uncle and stepbrother? Yeah, let's ignore the OUAT theory because my Benry heart... no... this is not GoT

I have found a Disney mother for Harriet, Harry and CJ!

The QoH's is the Hookling's mother!

Okay yes this was heavily inspired by RoR and there are a few issues with timeline, (but with the way books insist there was a war with wonderland what if Hook hid out there and had Red's siblings before he and they were shipped to the Isle?) meh really I don't care! I mean really it could be one of the reasons that Harry is near 'psychopathic' in D2 if his mother was her majesty "OFF WITH HIS HEAD!"

And yes, for the obvious question, this does make Harry and Red siblings.

(For outside/other Disney media such as ONCE, I still do go with/think Hook/Milah is an option. But if you are a non watcher/only go with the Original Disney movies. Then the Hooklings OG Disney mother is the Queen of Hearts.)

[boushh2187]

My Once Upon a Time series finale crack theory: Rumple does something to his own heart in order to fix the poisoned heart situation between wish Hook and Alice, and then he dies. 

[perfectharmonyloveschaos]

Why Tremaine Hates Drizella (Theory)

Like is it just me who thinks that Tremaine's dislike of Drizella could be a lot more personal than we realize? Like yeah, abusing her daughter is awful and that can never be excused...

But if Tremaine is Rapunzel, then her disliking of Drizella maybe due to her natural magical ability? I mean Rapunzel probably could have suffered severe anxiety/paranoia over magic and escaping the witch, hating magic so much for what it did and what it could do.

So imagine having two daughters; one with magic and one without. Drizella and Anastasia. She would obviously push Drizella away and force her to hide it, eventually growing to hate her daughter for nothing more than simply being born that way. Drizella reminds Tremaine of the witch; of her power and abuse she afflicted upon her, resulting in her locking away any magic she could find. She may have loved Drizella, but her fear & trauma pushed her to see her nothing more as a liability, a reminder.

She didn't see a young girl who couldn't understand why her mother didn't love her, she could only see a monster that could lock her up again. And in the end with the curse, she became trapped once more as Victoria Belfrey. Still only the girl in the tower.

[azulso]

Me: hi OUAT, yeah, I wanna talk to Robin Hood, what? Oh He’s dead, I’m sorry, my condolences to Belle, oh she’s dead to…

[ace-cf-cups]

When it comes to Gold's lack of scales in Storybrooke, I also think it might be connected to Storybrooke's magic - like you said, the same thing that makes Archie stay human - but I was talking specifically about Rumple's appearance in EF being directly connected to how he views himself, since both Skin Deep and the plot in S7 where he turns lizardy again happen in EF.

As for the Dark One being a separate entity, I totally get what you mean about the whole Dark One lore being quite confusing, it has been for me for a long but I've just spent no small amount of time (like, really a lot of time - my mum and I sometimes watch one episode for an hour and a half or more because we pause and discuss scenes/details/behaviors etc, we are that analysis crazy 😅) analyzing Rumple's behavior and the Dark One in S5 and Rumple not being quiet himself in 3B after absorbing Neal and that's where my conclusion comes from, and I've actually got a lot more to say about that theory, but that would have to be a very long post / most likely a series of very long posts with lots of analyzes of small details and motivations and Dark One lore so I don't know when I'll have the time / mental capacity to write it all down 😅 Suffice to say, I do adhear to the theory that the Dark One is not just some dark magic or even the voices of previous hosts in Rumple's head but also, adding to the aforementioned, a separate living and thinking entity that lives inside of Rumple... think, a parasite! an honest-to-god parasite because the Dark One also can't live without a host and slowly leaches all the humanity / energy from its host as the time goes on!

As for Rumbelle in S2, I agree with you completely that these scenes would have made more scenes before Moe's kidnapping + Rumbelle deserved more "talking about our issues" scenes but that, I think, is attributed to the fact that the writers had a sizable ensemble cast - pr what should have been an ensemble cast - but had no idea how to write a show with an ensemble cast that would give all characters / couples / relationships equal amount of screentime and attention while also staying believable and yet unpredictable and moving the plot forward.

To think about it, lots of things I don't like about OUAT are probably caused by it - the writers' inability to write a show with an ensemble cast that would give all characters / couples / relationships equal amount of screentime and attention while also staying believable and yet unpredictable and moving the plot forward.

Love me some Rumbelle, and I still believe that pre!curse it was, if hastily introduced, really good. And I kind of like it in the earlier seasons too before they killed Rumple character development and consistency for the sake of plot. But I really feel like the two of them hit off too...romantically? Too soon? I mean last time they were together Belle had just tried the true love kiss for the first time causing Rumple to freak out and then they have not seen each other for who knows how long with all the Regina being a little bastard part. But then they meet and just?? Hit it off like if nothing had happened? As if they were Snow and Charming??? Hello???? They even sleep in the same bed???? So soon????

Also do true love kisses not work on the Dark One anymore? I mean we know that Rumple and Gold are quite the same person but not really but why is it not working anymore? What's this? Leaving even for a moment how horribly horribly mishandled Rumple redemption roller coaster was compared to say Regina or hell even Zelena i would have preferred if they did the trial and tribulation and all the allegory of addiction and keep the power of the true love kiss, as in "the power of the true love kiss exist and it works, it can chase down the darkness, but for it to work, for it to truly work, *you* must also be a changed man"

Idk maybe after all this time I'm still salty we never got to see the OG Rumbelle interactions in a modern setting, maybe what I need is a god fix it fic

[redrosecut]

The new Alice

We have heard quite a lot about the other new characters compared to the new Alice. This lack of information got my head spinning. I guess my theory is probably nonsense and will not happen, but I have to get it out of my head. It might contain spoilers for those who have not seen Once Upon A Time in Wonderland.

What if this new Alice is actually the daughter of Will & Anastasia?

Well, why did my brain cook this up? I don’t know. But it would make sense. Will and the Alice we know from the Spin-Off were/are very close friends but they got seperated at the end of the series because Alice & Cyrus decided to live with their daughter in the alternate 1800s London/England realm while Anastasia & Will stayed in Wonderland and ruled as the White King & Queen. Well until Will pops up in Storybrooke again without any given reason but with the hinted agenda to get back to Wonderland. We never know if he makes it since the writers forgot about him after his short-lived affair with Belle (don’t even get me started on that).

Let’s assume he somehow made it back to Wonderland, Anastasia is alive and they finally got their happy ending they deserve. What if they had a child? In Once tradition, it is very likely that this child would be named after another relative or someone who is/was very close to the couple. In this regard, Alice would be the perfect choice.

How she ends up at the Hyperion Heights? Probably some other interpretation of the Alice story. Maybe one of the rabbit’s children dug a whole for her but it ended up not leading to the destination she wanted to got to but the Land without magic aka our realm. Or maybe she wanted to get away from Wonderland for some reason. Kind of a reversed Alice origin story.

Like I said this theory is very unlikely to be true but I would wish it would be. It would finally connect the spin-off series to the mother series and tie up some loose knots they left behind when they introduced Will in S4. Furthermore, it would also acknowledge that - like with Cinderella - there are different versions of a story.

[resident-of-storybrooke]

Theory help...

Okay so in 7x06 Regina says to Gold that Storybrooke can’t know that they’re there in Hyperion Heights, nor is that even a possibility. What do we think about that comment???

[kararumbelle]

I'm sure the carpet on the table is magic.

Ehhh, can you see Rumple taking his wife on a trip on this carpet ?

Can we talk for a moment about just what Moe French chose to steal from Gold?  Some sort of tapestry?  A set of plates?  Vases?  A single teacup (was that because he was confused about which one to take?). A silver tray.  Vases?

For one thing this is clunky stuff; how many trips out to the car did he make?  

For another where in town are you going to sell these things?  The local pawn dealer?

What was he thinking?

[tomeandflickcorner]

New theory

Remember how we've seen set and filming pictures that showed Wish Killian/Rogers interacting with Tiana/Sabine in upcoming episodes? What if SHE'S Wish Killian's daughter? I know, I have no evidence to support that theory. But the thought just popped into my head and I had to put it out there. Besides, we're probably going to get a lot of scenes with Henry and Jacinda interacting with them not realizing their true relationship until the curse breaks. So imagine the same holding true for Wish Killian and his long lost daughter.

[priscilla9993]

Clayton

The misogynistic hunter guy that kept antagonizing Robin and Alice during the “Girl in the Tower” episode is named Clayton. I’m having a strange night time thought but he has the same name as a certain hunter/villain in Tarzan. Not to say that he’s meant to be the stand in for Tarzan’s Clayton, but they do share a lot of similarities. They both are hunters, believe woman should leave the fighting to the men, assume the protector and leader role of a mob against well intentioned people who act stranger than the norm or frightening looking creatures. Tarzan’s Clayton goes against gorillas and Tarzan while Jane advocates for him. Ouat’s Clayton goes against the Troll and Alice while Robin tries to defend her. At first, they’re fine with the prospective women acting curious and brave in the face of something they can’t comprehend. But when a passive and logistically reasoned way to deal with their problem or source of power comes up that they can’t agree with or understand, they blow a fuse and lock up the two protagonists/to be lovers.

Both Claytons end up being blinded by their rage and how much they could gain from taking down the “monsters”, eventually getting waylaid and told to back off/stand down. They may be dense but make for fun to bash on characters.