#only the Nie sect's disciples care

[random-mdzs-thoughts-dumpster]

Omg, LXC was so done with NHS during the entire present timeline

[lgbtlunaverse]

One underdiscussed aspect of the bone-deep lack of mutual understanding during the nieyao stairs scene is that Nie Mingjue doesn't know - and can't know - what he's actually asking of Jin Guangyao. Not because he doesn't understand how his father treats him, or how tenuous his position is. But because he has no clue Xue Yang is a demonic cultivator.

Remember: Nie Mingjue is still alive, which means the position of chief cultivator doesn't exist yet and Jin Guangshan is facing heavy pushback for suggesting it. Most of that is coming from a fear that the Jin will try to become the next Wen. So having an outer disciple murder an entire clan and then not even punish him properly? This is a collosally bad move politically! You might as well be waving a red flag around yelling "I want to kill other sects with impunity!" There's a reason that years in the future, the moment Jin Guangyao becomes acting sect leader, he will immediately order Xue Yang's death (He doesn't actually die, either by accident or on purpose on jgy's part. But the point is that as far as the public is concerned he had Xue Yang executed.)

From Nie Mingjue's perspective, Jin Guangshan just shot himself in the foot politically for some random outer disciple. It's morally wrong, but it's also incredibly fucking stupid. In his eyes, he is asking Jin Guangyao to do the glaringly obvious right thing, even when exclusively looking at the Jins' self-interest. The thing that surely everyone else in the Jin also wants Jin Guangshan to do! Jin Guangyao can say that he has no influence on his father all he wants, but it is obvious how much work he does and so, as much as his father may not respect him, he clearly at least trusts Jin Guangyao's competence. Nie Mingjue has already tried shouting directly at Jin Guangshan during the trial and it seemed to work, but then Jin Guangshan went back on his decision like a complete idiot. So now Nie Mingjue is asking the guy who is famous for being good at rhetoric and convincing people to convince his donkey of a father to do the obviously correct thing with minimal downsides because again, to Nie Mingjue, this is all about some random outer disciple. It makes sense to ask this! It's a pretty reasonable request! Jin Guangshan can't possibly care that much.

Except of course he does. Because Xue Yang isn't some random outer disciple. He's the only good shot Jin Guangshan has at recreating the yin tiger tally. And Jin Guangshan reaaaaaally wants the yin tiger tally. So bad that he is fully willing to tank an ungodly amount of political goodwill to get it. Jin Guangyao is fully aware that not only will Jin Guangshan never kill Xue Yang, he isn't planning on keeping him locked up either. In fact, after Nie Mingjue is dead, he'll free Xue Yang and strongarm Chang Ping into denying the guilt of his family's murderer. Jin Guangshan cares a lot about keeping Xue Yang in his employ.

And Jin Guangyao knows this. But he can't tell Nie Mingjue that! Because then he'd have to admit they've been doing demonic cultivation. That the fucking ghost geneal is in their basement. That, oopsie, they actually also killed a whole other entire clan just a while ago after framing their sect leader for an assasination attempt and then used their bodies as fodder to make more fierce corpses. You know, in case one mass murder wasn't enough!

So obviously he's not gonna say that. Which means Nie Mingjue has no idea what he's demanding from Jin Guangyao, and therefore no idea why he absolutely can't fullfill that request.

I get why it's not mentioned very often because there are a lot of other problems which are both more obvious and more fun to talk about. (Who doesn't love a little overcomplicated trolley problem?) But I think it adds just another layer to the chasm between them in this scene. They're not just disagreeing, they're having completely different conversations.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i think it is extremely weird that parts of this fandom have just definitively decided that the principle antagonist is an irredeemably evil monster because he has his minion burn down a brothel (where said antagonist was born and abused and watched his mother suffer and die) with people still inside it, then hires a bunch of sex workers to rape his rapist dad (who raped so many women that he lost track of who his victims were, and ended up approving of a marriage between said antagonist and his own half-sister as a result) to death

when the protagonist’s chosen means of killing the people who razed the only home he’s ever known and murdered his foster parents involves 1) choking a woman to death by forcing a table leg down her throat, 2) forcing that dead woman to bite off a man’s genitals, and 3) forcing that man to eat his own legs. this plus the protagonist’s multiple day-long murder-torture bender where he kills and tortures a bunch of other wen sect disciples in front of each other, and owns doing this because it was fun and would have been too boring to kill then quickly. like jiang cheng and lan wangji find wwx by following the trail of bodies he leaves in his wake ok, that’s pretty awful

if wei wuxian can do these things and and still be considered good, then that only makes it harder for me to understand why jin guangyao is denied goodness

fun fact: when i describe both of these characters to people who are totally canon-blind and know nothing about mdzs, cql, or any of the other adaptations, the initial response from most people isn’t “hmmm but what was the protagonist’s interiority while he was making that woman’s corpse eat that man’s junk? was he very sad about it? that will surely tell me whether his corpse desecration and autocannibalism is morally defensible or not.” most of the time what they say is “ray what the fuck are you reading, both of those guys sound like evil people, i don’t care what their motivations are! also get help”

it just seems weird!! that certain corners of this fandom have decided that goodness is not only a quality that wwx intrinsically possesses (something i don’t necessarily disagree with fwiw), but that he gets to be defined by this goodness above all else. wwx gets situated at the centre of all subsequent discourse as the moral lighthouse of the whole novel—even though he has done objectively heinous shit entirely to satisfy his own desire for vengeance. doing all of those things does not detract from his fundamental goodness, in their estimation. or if it does, it doesn’t detract enough to significantly impact his role for them as the goodness barometer in the novel.

and that’s fine with me actually! if this is where the bar for what it means to be good in this novel is set, then it should logically follow that jin guangyao’s heinous actions can similarly be ‘offset’ by paying the appropriate ‘goodness tax’ through his other canon actions (e.g., loving and remaining filial to his mother, saving and protecting lan xichen, saving nie mingjue, funding the rebuilding of the cloud recesses, caring for his orphaned nephew, etc). he has done yuckydisgusting things, yes, but so has wwx! and as we all know, wwx is not evil! so jgy isn’t evil either!

…but this isn’t what happens in these conversations, because jgy seems to begin all fandom discourse at a goodness deficit that is depressingly reflective of the goodness deficit he experiences in the novel post-canon. (or, honestly, at the beginning of his life as meng yao.) and unlike wwx whose character gets to be defined principally by his goodness in spite of his genuinely horrendous acts of violence, jin guangyao’s whole character becomes defined by his horrendous acts of violence in spite of his goodness, even though the text demonstrates clearly that their capacity for both good and evil is evenly matched.

tl;dr it would be nice if the goodness goalposts would stop moving around so much in these discussions. maybe we should just get rid of them entirely.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Nie Huaisang and the Morality of Revenge

(Greatly expanded AO3 version here – I would definitely recommend that one more, but it's a little long for a tumblr meta)

"Take revenge on the ones who bite you. Wen Ning’s branch doesn’t have much blood on their hands."

There's a clear pattern as to how revenge is presented in MDZS. Though revenge against the ones who wronged you (or those close to you) isn't something you're morally obliged to do, it isn't condemned, and tends to be presented in the right. Revenge against innocents, however – that's where you draw the line.

All of which leaves Nie Huaisang in a very interesting position. Because though his target is the person directly responsible for his brother's death... those he's willing to harm to achieve that goal are not.

Vengeance in MDZS

MXTX: If you were to ask Wifi as to why he did not reveal [Nie Huaisang's] mask, it’s because there wasn’t enough evidence, there wasn’t a way to catch his tail (...) there was no way to punish him, because his reasons were righteous. - MXTX interview, translation here – 'Wifi' refers to Wei Wuxian

Now, it's one thing to say revenge is presented as right, and it's another thing to prove it. Why do I think this, and what material is there to support this in the actual text?

One major piece of evidence is Wei Wuxian himself.

If he were Chang Ping, he wouldn’t have cared how prominent or powerful the LanlingJin Sect was, or how much glory the road ahead offered him, and he wouldn’t have let the matter [of his clan being murdered] go. Instead, he would’ve went to the dungeons on his own, cut Xue Yang up so that he was nothing more than a puddle of flesh on the ground, and summoned his soul back to repeat the process to the point that he regretted ever being born in this world. - Chapter 33, EXR translation

This is something that Wei Wuxian thinks in the present day – not under pressure, not in the aftermath of anything traumatic. And the important thing is that it's never questioned. There isn't a moment where Wei Wuxian or anybody else dwells on this and thinks/says 'maybe I shouldn't keep retaliating like this' or 'will harming more people after their actions have already been taken actually fix anything, or just cause more damage?'. It's also never framed as a tragedy that these views don't change. There is a moment of thinking his past self went too far with his vengeance, but look at the context:

And for every one of the Wen Sect’s cultivators whom he killed, he made them into puppets as well before controlling them to kill the friends and family they had before they died. (...) Not only others, even when he, himself, thought about it afterward, he felt that he had done a bit too much. - Chapter 60, EXR translation

Killing their friends and family – yes, this is a war between clans (people with blood ties to each other)/sects (in which you spend most of your time around fellow members), so it's likely many of these are on the battlefield... but do we know this is the case for everyone? We know there are people and branches of the Wen sect who are noncombatants, and we know outer disciples exist, whose families may or may not be affiliated with the sect in some way. We also know resentful corpses can seek out, recognise and target people due to their bloodline without direct control (see Nie Mingjue finding Jin Guangyao and then targeting Jin Ling in Hatred and Concealment), so seeking out family members outside of the battlefield is possible. Out of the potentially thousands of people Wei Wuxian killed in this way, is it really that probable that every single one was guilty?

This is what I believe 'done a bit too much' means – targetting people who may or may not have been directly involved in action against Wei Wuxian/the allied sects.

There are also other instances of vengeance, directly against the ones who harmed you, being framed as justified (resurrecting Wen Ning to kill the inspectors that killed him, for example); as well as instances that aren't exactly vengeance but are still linked to punishing somebody for their bad deeds (seen a lot with Xue Yang – eg Xiao Xingchen demanding "severe punishment" for what Xue Yang did to the Chang clan in Chapter 30*, Wei Wuxian's "Xue Yang must die" after witnessing the Yi City flashbacks in Chapter 41), also framed this way.

But, first, a clarification.

MDZS may not condemn vengeance, but it does condemn holding onto resentment and letting it twist you, particularly when it leads to the harming of other people. And this is something important to note about Wei Wuxian's character, as well – he is quick to vengeance and retaliation, but that's exactly the point. He does the deed and then doesn't hold onto those feelings (under normal circumstances), instead carrying on to live his life with his adherence to his moral code unaltered**. See the Second Siege – a lot of these people directly contributed to the first siege on him, but he doesn't hold onto his resentment and decide not to save them as a result. Instead, he and Lan Wangji work to save them as well as the Juniors at great personal risk to themselves. That's why most of his actions are justified by the narrative, and why the two times he does act based on feelings of resentment he holds (Sunshot Campaign in the above quote, and Nightless City***), his actions aren't.

Back to vengeance itself.

Of course, vengeance is not presented as the only course of action! Lan Wangji doesn't do anything to avenge Wei Wuxian's death, instead focusing his energy on helping people and on teaching the younger generation to avoid the mistakes his made, and he's all the better for it. The line immediately following Wei Wuxian's thoughts on Chang Ping and Xue Yang is this:

But, not everyone was like him[.]

Which is followed by understanding for Chang Ping's situation, especially taking into account the fact that "some of the Chang clan's people were still alive" and may have been casualities if vengeance was carried out. Revenge isn't something you're obliged to do – and when the alternative is protecting others, is arguably less important. But, in itself, it isn't a moral wrong. As someone I talked to about writing this meta said, it's often the only way to bring someone who has done bad deeds to justice (which the story supports: see my earlier points about Xue Yang, as well as MXTX saying Xue Yang "deserved to be beaten by the protagonist") in a society which often leaves bad deeds unpunished and good deeds condemned.

(Of course you're allowed to disagree with this view of vengeance and punishment – I do myself – but that's what I believe to be the story's view on the matter.)

When it does become a moral wrong is when it targets innocent people.

Going Too Far?

As we've discussed, there two scenarios where revenge is presented as in wrong: the above, and being corrupted by the resentment you hold due to continously seeking your vengeance. And more often than not, these scenarios are strongly tied to each other. The sects targeting the Wen remnants after the Sunshot Campaign is an example of the former, as is Xue Yang's murder of the Chang clan; Nie Mingjue's single-minded hatred of Jin Guangyao is a clear example of the latter. Even if Jin Guangyao did do the actions Nie Mingjue had hated him for (and he did!), the resentment Nie Mingjue carried due to this eventually led to his death (through its amplification by the Collection of Turmoil). We also have a reversal of scenario two with Jin Ling's arc of learning to let go of his hatred, which deserves its own post.

But even in the above, there are traces of the other problem. Were the sects not blinded by their resentment and prejudice against anyone with a Wen name? Did Xue Yang's experience with Chang Ci'an and the injustice/resentment he felt from that not negatively impact him? And did Nie Mingjue's anger at Jin Guangyao (even if it was supernaturally amplified) not lead him to lash out at Nie Huaisang, an innocent in this scenario? And other scenarios are even more intertwined with both, for example Jiang Cheng pursuing ghost/demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death (scenario 1) due to his hatred and resentment (scenario 2).

This relationship is very interesting, since it leads to the idea that holding onto resentment does make you more likely to target innocent people – ie, it often leads to loss of critical thinking, something else that's strongly condemned in the novel (as the force behind mob mentality, etc). It's also eerily similar to people's ideas of what practicing guidao, aka cultivation using resentful energy, does to you ("damag[ing] your heart" – LWJ, Chapter 62)... as well as to the loss of discernment that occurs both times Wei Wuxian loses control of his cultivation (Wen Ning accidentally targeting Jin Zixuan, the corpses accidentally targeting Jiang Yanli)****!

As for why this sort of vengeance is presented as wrong, I think it's pretty obvious – it harms innocent people as well as yourself. There isn't really any good in that.

Nie Huaisang In Context

So, with all that said... let's finally look at Nie Huaisang.

As MXTX has said, she believes his reasons were justified. His aim wasn't to take revenge on innocents, which avoids scenario one (in motives, at least). Whether or not Nie Huaisang was 'corrupted' due to resentment he felt is a little harder to judge***** – we don't really know his inner workings before Nie Mingjue is killed, so we don't know his moral code or what he's willing to do before then. We're also not there for the vast majority of his planning, so we don't know how he changed during that period, and by the time we're in the story proper, his mask is too good to really discern anything about his attitude... and we don't see much of him afterwards, either, the only thing being him starting to his more competent side when organising the coffin sealing ceremony. So we'll leave scenario two as an unknown, and not comment – however, it should be noted that vengeance doesn't seem to affect Nie Huaisang's critical thinking.

But what's unique about his vengeance isn't motives, direct targets, or the effect it has on him. It's something we haven't really seen before – the effect on those who weren't his targets, but were still heavily harmed. In other words, collaterals.

The most obvious example is probably Mo Xuanyu:

Perhaps to gain information from Mo XuanYu, Nie HuaiSang talked to him once. From Mo XuanYu’s grievances, he knew that Mo XuanYu had once read the fragmented manuscript that recorded an ancient, forbidden technique in Jin GuangYao’s collection. He then urged Mo XuanYu, who had had enough of the humiliation coming from his own clan members, to seek revenge using the forbidden technique of body sacrifice. - Chapter 109, EXR translation

Was Mo Xuanyu a direct target, someone who Nie Huaisang knew was innocent yet decided to take vengeance on anyway? No. But was he provided an avenue to and motive for suicide by Nie Huaisang, as part of his plan to take revenge on someone else? Yes! And Mo Xuanyu isn't the only death Nie Huaisang had a hand in causing – perhaps his is even the least direct. After all, he was responsible for releasing the hand at Mo Manor as well, leading to the deaths of four people (the Mo family and A-Tong) and endangering many more (the junior disciples, the rest of the household's servants). Yes, this wasn't his aim – he wanted Wei Wuxian to subdue it and start investigating the case – but he knowingly endangered everyone while doing so, and in the end the hand was subdued as quickly as it was by Lan Wangji's involvement, who he couldn't have known was there!

There's also the case of luring the Juniors to Yi City, purely to place more blame on Jin Guangyao if they'd died there! That isn't even necessary to taking down Jin Guangyao and figuring out the case of the corpse, as resurrecting Wei Wuxian and releasing the hand arguably were (Nie Huaisang could've tried to expose Jin Guangyao earlier, but we don't know which way public opinion would've swayed – that isn't necessarily a point in his favour, just a remark)! Then he threatened Jin Guangyao with the letter, leading to the events of the Second Siege which endangered and nearly killed "thousands" (Chapter 68) of people, as well as to the events at the Guanyin temple which nearly killed Jin Ling and Wei Wuxian and endangered more... and there are the smaller things too, like killing those cats, potentially dismembering the innocent Meng Shi's corpse, and possibly knowing about Sisi for a while before freeing her (she said she was freed "recently" in Chapter 85 – but to be fair, we don't know how recently he found out, or how long ago exactly she was freed. She wasn't necessarily freed right before she gave the testimony). We can't forget about potentially endangering many people who lived in Qinghe due to causing the Nie sect to greatly decline, and making himself seem like somebody useless, meaning people likely wouldn't go to him for help if they needed it.

In conclusion: a lot of people were killed, harmed or endangered in his plan. So, with a potential body count that would've (...nearly. maybe. not quite.) rivalled Wei Wuxian's had things gone wrong... where does that leave him in the eyes of the narrative? Do the ends justify the means?

...It's interesting.

Slowly, Nie HuaiSang brushed together his storm-drenched hair, “I think that if this person hates Jin GuangYao so much, they’d probably be entirely merciless towards something he cherishes more than his life.” (...) Perhaps (...) he didn’t want to admit that he used others as pawns, treating human lives as nothing. - Chapter 110, EXR translation

Nie Huaisang's actions are certainly framed as some of wrong. This is consistent with the closest example we have to his actions also being framed as in the wrong (Nie Mingjue harming others by lashing out while hating Jin Guangyao, albeit on a much smaller scale, with durations, intentions, presences of plans, the effect holding onto resentment had on them also being very different; possibly Jin Guangyao himself in his plan to kill Jin Guangshan, although that's obviously not the only condemnable action Jin Guangyao takes, and he very much does intentionally harm others even if it wouldn't really contribute to his aims (burning down the brothel, giving the Tingshan He sect to Xue Yang to experiment on, killing the prostitues when he could've bribed them and forcing them to keep on going even once Jin Guangshan was dead, among many other things)... there really aren't many similar situations to Nie Huaisang's in the novel), even though they're framed this way for different reasons (being blinded by resentment vs knowingly endangering others as part of a wider plan).

Yet, on the other hand, it isn't considered a tragedy that his actions went unpunished – and with reference to MXTX's quote about Nie Huaisang, this isn't accidental (with a slight caveat we're about to talk about).

In the end, it comes down to another, very related, theme.

Conjectures were conjectures, after all. Nobody had evidence. - Chapter 110, EXR translation

MXTX: If you were to ask Wifi as to why he did not reveal [Nie Huaisang's] mask, it’s because there wasn’t enough evidence, there wasn’t a way to catch his tail. - MXTX requote, start of this meta

Think critically. Don't target somebody without evidence. Don't target someone who may not have done something wrong.

Don't target innocent people in pursuit of vengeance, or justice.

That's the main reason Nie Huaisang wasn't exposed. Would Wei Wuxian have exposed him had he had the evidence needed? Maybe – we can't really say. He did endanger a lot of people. But targeting him without evidence, letting suspicions drive actions, would make Wei Wuxian – and indeed, anyone who did so – no better than the mob that does the same thing throughout the novel.

They're also doing it in pursuit of what they think is justice, or vengeance, or an intertwined mixture of the two, after all.

---

*Which is quite similar to Wei Wuxian's own thoughts when first told about it (in the quote). This further supports the assumption that this line of thinking is presented as justified, due to Xiao Xingchen himself being written as an ideal of goodness:

When writing paragraphs about Xue Yang, I had to adjust my mentality to be in the darkest, cruellest state, while it was the exact opposite for Xiao XingChen, from whom I felt holy light every time I wrote about him. - MXTX's postscripts (Chapter 113.5), EXR translation

**"Forgetting the pain as soon as the wound has healed" is a phrase that's used to describe him in the novel, and while it's generally used to describe somebody not learning a lesson after a punishment, it describes this aspect of him perfectly.

***Relevant quote:

Wei WuXian had already lost his judgement. He was already half-mad, half-unconscious. All evil was being augmented by him. He felt that everyone loathed him and he loathed everyone as well.

Holding onto those feelings of loathing and resentment is directly tied to losing judgement and presence of mind – which demonstrates this theme better than any analysis can, I think.

****For more analysis on the themes of resentment and how resentful energy ties into that, this amazing meta by @rynne delves into it more deeply than I do here – I really recommend a read!

*****MXTX does say this earlier on in the same interview:

As to whether it was purely to take revenge, maybe he only had one motive. But afterwards, he wasn’t thinking purely on revenge.

Which does suggest that other more noble factors, such as prevention, may have played a role in his plan too. This seems to indicate Nie Huaisang wasn't completely overtaken by resentment, working to his favour in avoiding scenario 2. However, for the the purposes of this analysis, this isn't too important (and not just because there's nothing to prove or disprove it in the text) – such aims could be achieved by simply exposing Jin Guangyao without utternly destroying him, which is where the motivation of revenge and its effects comes in. It's this aspect of the plan that leads to Nie Huaisang endangering innocent people, which is what this meta dwells upon.

[thebiscuiteternal]

I love your larger age gap Nie Bros au! I want to float the idea of a role reversal larger age gap au where Nie Huaisang is the much older sibling of the pair, and Nie Mingjue is the baby brother.

Whew.

Honestly, it would lean more towards the "bitter" side of bittersweet, because Nie Huaisang has spent his entire fourteen/fifteen years of life knowing that even if his father has tried to love him, even though he has tried to be a good son, he's not the kind of heir his father or the sect wants and never will be. He's sharp and clever, but also small and sickly and exhausted easily and will never be a good night hunter or battle leader. He's so very un-Nie-like that only the fact that he shares his father's eye color and a few of his facial features keeps people from making accusations about his parentage (and even that doesn't stop them sometimes).

But at least his father never tried to replace him or his deceased mother, right?

And then, right after his father has just died, a midwife shows up with a strong healthy baby and a bundle of paperwork declaring the child fully legitimate, and Huaisang has to grapple with the realization that his father did very much try to get a replacement, and since the paperwork is all nice and legal, the elders and senior disciples likely knew about it and said nothing.

He wants to scream or vomit or break things or hit someone, but he does none of the above and just sits beside the crib and stares at nothing while the elders debate his future like he's not even present.

Then there is a little tug on his hair, and when he looks down, little Mingjue has a fistful of it stuffed in his mouth and is staring up at him with big green eyes and... dammit, he can't hate this kid. Mingjue doesn't know what's going on, has no idea how he's destroyed what little of a life his older brother had just by existing. It's not his fault.

Huaisang sighs and gently tugs his hair free, then reaches in to let Mingjue clutch his hand and giggle and gnaw on his fingers.

It's eventually decided that Huaisang will be (a puppet) sect leader, with provisions that as soon as the sect has decided Mingjue is old enough, he will abdicate and leave, so as not to complicate his brother's position by hanging around.

Needless to say, this does not make Huaisang feel the slightest bit better, but he has no choice other than to at least try to do well by his new title, which proves to be more difficult than it has to be because literally every single one of his decisions gets argued and debated and he's constantly being patronized even though it's apparent he's not as stupid as people expect him to be.

Ironically, the son who will replace him winds up becoming his only refuge. Since they didn't have the years of being brothers from the Reverse Nie "canon" timeline, Mingjue never grows up absorbing the disdain everyone else has for Huaisang. Rather, Mingjue has already imprinted on him and throws unholy fits when people try to keep them apart.

It's more common than not that Mingjue sleeps cuddled against his brother's chest in Huaisang's bed instead of his own crib. He starts developing a fierce protective streak before he even knows how to walk or talk, scowling at anyone whose tone he doesn't like when they talk to his brother and trying to grab for hair or throw things at them when he gets really upset about it. People learn quick that if they want to badmouth Huaisang, they have to do it out of earshot of Mingjue, and that only holds more true as he grows up and begins grasping language and starts becoming aware of the disparity between how hard his brother is trying versus the things people say about him.

Everyone else better start watching their insults before they find that Mingjue has grown to have more loyalty to the brother who loves him and does his damnedest to care for him despite all his other duties versus the sect who wants to split them up.

And that's as far as I've currently gotten with this idea.

[mxtxfanatic]

sometimes i do find the state of the mxtx protag's post canon social lives funny like.

shen qingqiu has:

one (1) liu qingge (he's one of the only peak lords i'd actually call shen qingqiu's friend)

one (1) shang qinghua (possibly, i think they could have a pretty good post canon friendship but as of the books i think they're more allies out of necessity)

one (1) set of qing jing peak disciples

that's it.

wei wuxian has:

one (1) wen ning

one (1) flock of extremely devoted juniors

one (1) sect leader nie huaisang (possibly. unlikely but they could)

one (1) set of mianmian and her husband (possibly)

that's it.

xie lian has:

The Entirety Of The Cast Likes/Respects Him On At Least Some Level Sans Like Three People One Of Which Is Qi Rong Who Doesn't Count.

i mean!! the one you wouldn't expect to succeed the most in this area has the most friends out of all of them!! lmao and it's not necessarily wei wuxian's fault given the whole over-a-decade-long propaganda campaign against him but still... no excuses for shen qingqiu though lmfao. i do like to laugh about it

I would 100% expect Xie Lian to be well-liked, cause other than his circumstances, he is very charming and people who do not know him like him. Same for Wei Wuxian: people who do not know of him and his reputation love him upon interacting with him. The only downside to his social life is that no named character his age outside of his husband, Mianmian, and Wen Ning is worthy of his respect, let alone friendship, so why would he take the time to get to know them? While both Wei Wuxian and Xie Lian are charming characters, neither of them seem to want to maintain a large circle of friends.

But Shen Qingqiu??? Idk what you’re on about with him, everybody in Cang Qiong Mountain Sect—except for the Bai Zhan Peak disciples, maybe— loves him! His fellow peak lords are constantly complaining about how he never visits enough because he’s on his forever honeymoon. They find out he’s come back to his peak and they gather at his house to force their way in. I feel like he’s also not one to care about having a large circle of friends, but his martial siblings sure as hell won’t let that stand!

[mediocretosubpar-soup]

To everyone's surprise, acting Sect Leader Lan, Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng's inevitable full-blown all-out brawl is not Wei Wuxian's fault. In fact, Wei Wuxian is off on a night hunt with Wen Ning when it happens.

It starts like this. The sects meet in Qinghe. It all goes well, Nie Huaisang is despite his fluttering around and his shrill laugh, a competent chief cultivator. The talks are almost boring in their lack of scandal, in the swift decisions made. The Sect Leaders find themselves with a free afternoon.

Lan Wangji goes to the market thinking to buy a souvenir for Wei Wuxian and maybe another for Lan Xichen. (though he's not sure if it's wise to remind him of Qinghe). Walking through the market, he happens upon a shop that sells musical instruments. Interest sparked, he considers the wares on offer, the quality is good, different from the strict traditional equipment found around Gusu but not of lesser quality. A cleaning brush for flutes catches his eyes.

"You sell these as quality dimo?" Someone says in a tone that suggests the offending party has commited a grave sin.

"Sir, I assure that we only offer the best quality products." The clerk's voice has a pleading note to it, maybe he's said this already. Maybe he's just terrified. Whatever it is, Lan Wangji isn't going to let Sect Leader Jiang bully commoners. He rises to his full height and comments. "I can vouch for the quality." He tilts his chin at Jiang Cheng, in the way he's seen Shufu do for especially obnoxious parents, in a way that reminds people that Gusu Lan is the musical sect and he is their best musician. "I have bought them for my husband's instrument."

Jiang Cheng gifts him a look that could make flowers wither and turn sunny days gloomy. "I would have expected an instrument in the care of a Lan to retain its quality and yet even the tone-deafest of my disciples commented on the decline of sound when they returned from the last joined nighthunt."

The shop owner ducks under a table. Jiang Cheng jerks his head at the door. Lan Wangji steps between door and Jiang Cheng who huffs. "Acting Sect leader Lan, may we continue our discussion on the Nie training fields?" Lan Wangji's teeth grind against one another Jiang Cheng doesn't tire of pointing out Lan Wangji's inexperience and so far, he has always cloaked his pettyness in sound advice. Lan Wangji only heads for the door when he's placed money for the dimo on the table.

-

Their friendly sparring match between two equally matched cultivators who rarely have the opportunity to go all out for lack of equals in cultivation lasts until Wei Wuxian returns from his night hunt. By then Lan Wangji has busted Jiang Cheng's nose but Jiang Cheng has blackened his eye. Both have ignored Sect Leader Jin's screeching complaints of them being stupid (it's never stupid to defend oneself from baseless accusation) , a bad example for the juniors (Lan Wangji has been a paragon of proper conduct since he was a teenager) and isn't it far more likely that Wei Wuxian neglected Chenqing? This last point Sect Leader Jin shouts as Lan Wangji is sending a truly ferocious uppercut in the direction of Sect Leader Jiang's haughty face who drops his defense at those words. Lan Wangji cannot delight in Sect Leader Jiang's stupidly surprised face as Sect Leader Jiang was sending an overly flashy haymaker at Lan Wangji's face and Lan Wangji also dropped his defense. Lan Wangji sees Jiang Cheng's eyes widen in realization and then Jiang Cheng knocks him out.

Nie Huaisang later informs them that they both knocked each other out. "Who doesn't get too enthusiastic during a good sparring match? Who doesn't get carried away by the joy of fighting a good opponent?" Sect Leader Nie replies to Jiang Wanyin's explanation, his tone cheerful while implying that this never happened to him and he is very, very upset that his carefully planned discussion conference has been derailed. He's placed them in a shared infirmary and his head healer insists that they stay for the reminder of the night.

This is fine. Lan Wangji and Jiang Wanyin have done this before. No one endures their polite silence for long. They'll be given their clean bill of health soon enough.

[robininthelabyrinth]

Ah, this is invisible_cities from ao3 - dropping off a plot bunny I mentioned in a comment on 'No Complaints' as requested, since you considered it intriguing and didn't want to lose the idea. It went: I keep being haunted by this kernel of an idea, an AU in which LQR&JC -Done Uncles(TM) - have a (political) reason to Swear Brotherhood. Especially if it meant seeing the reactions of LQR's nephews AND LXC's sworn brothers. I think Nie Minjue might actually approve, as you write him.

Convenient Brotherhood - ao3

“You would make a good teacher.”

Jiang Cheng froze, abruptly overcome with a wave of hideous embarrassment, then a moment later with a wave of self-disgust for having felt that embarrassment. It wasn’t as if he were doing anything shameful, after all.

He’d only been showing the newest set of Jiang disciples the basic forms that they would need to know in order to build their foundation in the Jiang sect’s sword style. It was one of the most basic duties of a sect. Although it was normally done by an instructor, rather than the sect leader directly, even Jiang Cheng’s father had occasionally stepped in to show the children how it was done. There was nothing embarrassing about doing what he was doing at all.

It was only – being perceived, he supposed.

He turned and tried to salute, saying, “Teacher Lan –”

Lan Qiren stopped him, catching his arm and pulling him upwards, his hand seeming to Jiang Cheng’s perception to be blazing hot where it touched his skin. “I have already told you to stop with that,” he chided, though quite gently, and that hot feeling spread over the rest of Jiang Cheng’s skin, right up to his neck. “It has already become tiresome, and you can’t keep it up forever, now that I am staying here.”

Yes.

There was – that.

Jiang Cheng didn’t want to think about that. On why Lan Qiren was now residing in the Lotus Pier, the length of his stay indeterminate, lasting until…

Until nothing. Jiang Cheng wasn’t thinking about it.

“How is Jin Ling doing?” he asked instead, because it was easier. Jin Ling was still a baby, in need of tremendous care, and in all honesty Lan Qiren’s presence had been a godsend in that regard – the Jiang sect needed care, too, as needy as an infant going through growing pains as Jiang Cheng tried to help it settle into its rightful position as a Great Sect, and there were only so many hours in a day. He was already being torn to pieces by his obligations. He couldn’t even imagine the damage it might do to him if he were trying to take care of both Jin Ling and his sect, all on his own, unsupported by anyone, least of all –  

Wait, no, he wasn’t thinking about that.

“Quite well. He’s just realized he can wave around his toys on his own,” Lan Qiren said, accepting the change of subject gracefully, just as he always did. “He was quite proud of his great accomplishment.”

Just like his peacock of a father, Jiang Cheng wanted to say, but his throat closed up. It had only been a few months, no more than half a year, since – since Jiang Yanli – since she had…since Jin Ling was orphaned.

By all rights, Jin Ling ought to be right now in Lanling City, being cared for by his paternal relatives, but Jin Zixuan’s death had overturned a hornet’s nest there, and even Madame Jin, for whom Jin Ling was now her sole purpose in life, didn’t think it was a good idea to risk keeping him there. Accordingly to Lanling Jin custom, the child was typically raised by the mother for the first few years of life, then handed over to the father to be educated. So, with Jin Ling lacking both mother and father, Madame Jin had proposed that Jin Ling be temporarily handed over to Jiang Cheng…

She must have been in a very tough position to have asked for such a thing. Jiang Cheng tried not to think about it, because it meant that he got to keep Jin Ling by his side, got not to be alone. Just him and Jin Ling…and Lan Qiren, now.

It had really only been when Lan Qiren had walked in and plucked a sobbing Jin Ling out of Jiang Cheng’s arms, ordering the frantic and under-slept Jiang Cheng to go get some rest, that Jiang Cheng had remembered all those rumors that made out that it was Lan Qiren that had raised his nephews, even since infancy. From the capable fashion in which he tended to Jin Ling, Jiang Cheng was inclined to think the rumors were true.

And since there could be no questioning Lan Qiren’s integrity, he didn’t have to worry about entrusting Jin Ling to him. There could be no fear that Lan Qiren was a secret assassin, or bribed by the Jin sect, or – or whatever Jiang Cheng’s paranoid mind had come up with. Admittedly, it was probably a little offensive to use a respected elder like Lan Qiren as a babysitter, but Lan Qiren had never complained.

“You should consider what I said.”

Jiang Cheng shook himself out of his reverie. “What? What you said when?”

“That you would make a good teacher,” Lan Qiren said. He shook out his sleeves and started heading back inside – had he come all the way out to the training yards just to say that? But no, it was getting to be dinner time. He had come to call Jiang Cheng, another thing that no one had asked him to do but which he did, as meticulous and inexorable as the Lan sect rules in all the things he did.

Having someone who remembered that he needed to be called in, that he forgot things like eating and drinking if he was too distracted…Jiang Cheng really shouldn’t enjoy it as much as he did.

It shouldn’t make him as happy as it did.

Jiang Cheng caught up with Lan Qiren, falling into step by his side. “Is this some sort of hint that you changed your mind and would like to start teaching again?” he asked. “I’m sure we could set something up here for you, if you like.”

It wouldn’t be the same as the Cloud Recesses, though. Nothing was ever the same as home.

Jiang Cheng knew that better than most.

“I meant nothing more than what I said,” Lan Qiren said mildly. “I have not varied from my decision not to teach this year. Perhaps when Jin Ling is older, we can reconsider.”

Because Lan Qiren would probably still be here then, Jiang Cheng’s traitorous mind noted. Jin Ling would grow up, and grow older, and eventually return to Lanling Jin to inherit his patrimony, but Lan Qiren would still be here in the Lotus Pier, far away from home, rotting away in a place he didn’t belong –

Lan Qiren cleared his throat pointedly.

“You are letting his thoughts get away from you again, I think,” he said. He sounded amused, of all things. “Shall I recite the rules regarding the importance of mealtimes once again…?”

“Please don’t,” Jiang Cheng said hastily. He’d made the mistake, in the first few days of Lan Qiren’s tenure when Jiang Cheng had been incredibly bitter about how everything had all gone down, of retorting to one of Lan Qiren’s invocations by reminding him that the Lotus Pier was not the Cloud Recesses and so the Lan sect rules did not apply here. It had been unwontedly cruel of him – reminding a man of the home that he’d lost through the actions of others, actions for which Jiang Cheng was in no small part responsible, whether directly or indirectly through others of his sect for whom he bore responsibility – and he’d been deeply ashamed of himself at once.

Lan Qiren, in contrast, had taken it in stride: he had only mildly responded that the Lan sect rules applied not only to the Cloud Recesses but to any person belonging to the Lan sect, no matter where they were, and furthermore that in any place where humanity gathered there were always rules, even when they were unwritten. He had thereafter devoted much of his free time, insofar as such a thing existed, into compiling a set of rules for the Lotus Pier.

Jiang Cheng had thought the project ridiculous at first, but Lan Qiren was meticulous, in this as with all things, and the first small booklet he had presented to Jiang Cheng had been…

Jiang Cheng hadn’t had any words for how it made him feel, only that he’d urgently needed to excuse himself to hide in his room and cry for a while, but in a good sort of way. The booklet contained not only the first few rules that Lan Qiren proposed, all of which were perfectly in keeping with the Lotus Pier’s tradition and full of good sense besides, but also the basis behind them: the logical arguments both in favor and against, the potential consequences, and most of all the history behind them, gleaned from the dozens of interviews Lan Qiren had conducted among both the few survivors of the Lotus Pier’s massacre and the common people outside their door.

Jiang Cheng treasured each survivor more than gold, but he’d never really known how exactly to ask them, or even what, and he’d never thought about asking the common people at all. To unexpectedly find that they, too, knew the stories of his family, his ancestors, to see the casual anecdotes his father had once, in a rare sharing mood, recited for them over dinner and which Jiang Cheng had nearly forgotten, all written down neatly in a book, something that could be copied and duplicated and remembered into the future…

There were stories in there that even he hadn’t known. Ones his father hadn’t mentioned, or hadn’t had a chance to, stories that his distant cousins, the older ones, recognized with a start that suggested they’d forgotten them, too – even stories about his mother, ones that she’d long ago discarded as embarrassing. Stories that made her appear in his memory, vivid and beautiful and headstrong, simultaneously just as he’d known her and yet also somehow like learning about her for the first time.

There were stories about Jiang Yanli, too. Things Jiang Cheng had never known about her, how she went out among the common people to help them small things within her power, dealing with the little pests and pestilences that accompanied daily life but which would win no one any fame and which most cultivators disdained as a result – even her likes and dislikes, recorded from the mouths of the merchants that had always saved a portion of their wares for her.

Even stories about him –

…anyway, the rules were good. The Jiang sect’s motto might be attempt the impossible, but there was no harm in having some structure. All his new disciples still needed their foundation, after all. 

“Do you really think I’d be a good teacher?” Jiang Cheng asked, settling down beside the table. The Lan sect rules generally prohibited speaking during mealtimes, but they hadn’t started yet – Jin Ling still needed to be brought over by his wet nurse, since Lan Qiren insisted that all meals be taken together and Jiang Cheng, who would have Jin Ling in his sight at all times if he could, didn’t disagree. “I think most of my disciples are afraid of me.”

“If being cantankerous were a disqualifier, no one would ever come to me,” Lan Qiren said, and Jiang Cheng had to suppress a snort – the other man’s sense of humor was another thing that had come as a surprise. Lan Qiren was in fact quite strict with his students; it was only now that Jiang Cheng had graduated to being one of his peers that Lan Qiren had allowed him to see the more personable aspects of his character. “Your disciples fear your temper, yes, but they respect and adore you. You will be an excellent teacher.”

“The Jiang sect sword style –”

“Not just that.”

“No?”

“Don’t look down on yourself. You have more to give to the world than just your blood and sweat.”

Jiang Cheng’s hand stole, without his permission, to rest on his stomach, on the stolen golden core that glowed inside of him, inescapable reminder of Wei Wuxian’s sacrifice of which he had been completely ignorant until – until it was very nearly too late. So very nearly. “I don’t know about that.”

It wasn’t a denial, though.

It was…hope, Jiang Cheng supposed. Hope that there might be something he could offer the world that wasn’t his bloodline or his endless years of effort, all of which seemed to turn to dust at once upon the revelation that it had been Wei Wuxian’s talent and sacrifice that had made it all possible. Being a teacher didn’t rely on or even require a golden core, especially if he taught the way Lan Qiren meant – not just swordsmanship, but cultivation, whether of one’s power or one’s mind.

It might be nice to have students, rather than soldiers.

“It’s settled, then,” Lan Qiren said. “We’ll plan out a curriculum for next year.”

As if it were that simple…though now that Jiang Cheng thought about it, why couldn’t it be? He was the sect leader here, with no elders to stand on his shoulders and force him to stop, and he had Lan Qiren, whose fame as a teacher was personal to him rather than generalized to his sect. If they let out that he would be teaching again, people from all over the cultivation world would send their children to learn, even if Jiang Cheng were teaching as well.

Maybe, after a while…

It wasn’t like Lan Qiren was going anywhere. He couldn’t.

Or, well, he could, technically. There was nothing wrong with Lan Qiren’s legs or his ability to fly a sword, he could walk out any time. But he wouldn’t – not when his presence in the Lotus Pier was one of the pillars that held together the cultivation world. Not when…

���Didi should stop thinking so much,” Lan Qiren said, and Jiang Cheng winced the way he always did when Lan Qiren acknowledged the forced sworn brother relationship between them. “It’s not doing you any good.”

Jiang Cheng snorted. That was true enough. “This is when most people say I ought to get a wife.”

“What would be the point? If you wanted one, you’d have one.”

“The matchmakers –”

“Cannot do anything if the person asking them for help is also purposefully sabotaging their attempts. It’s really no surprise that they’ve banned you for wasting their time.”

Jiang Cheng grumbled a bit at that, but didn’t argue – mostly because the wetnurse had finally come, holding Jin Ling (who was, in fact, beaming at the toy clutched in his hand), and the fact that Lotus Pier didn’t have a rule against speaking at mealtimes meant absolutely nothing if the only two options were the silent Lan Qiren and the unintelligible Jin Ling.  

After, Jiang Cheng collected Jin Ling and went with Lan Qiren for a walk through some of the pavilions. They stayed silent for a long while, Lan Qiren picking paths at random – whether he liked after-meal walks for the purposes of digestion or if it was simply another Lan sect habit, Jiang Cheng didn’t know – but then they ended up in front of the empty courtyard that Jiang Cheng had once had built with Wei Wuxian in mind, naively dreaming about the day his right hand would stop with his nonsense and need a place of his own to live, not too far away, so that their children would one day be able to play with each other…

Jiang Cheng turned his face away, his mouth compressing into a hard line as he tried to control himself.

Lan Qiren slowed to a stop as well.

“He’s taken to including notes on the back of Wangji’s letters to me,” he finally said, looking out across the water to avoid eye contact – thoughtful of Jiang Cheng’s dignity, gracious as always. “Since you’re not accepting the ones he writes.”

Jiang Cheng laughed, though the sound of it hurt his throat. “I accept them. I just don’t read them, or reply…what’s the point? Everything that could be said has already been said.”

Lan Qiren frowned, clearly on the verge of disagreeing, but Jiang Cheng got ahead of him for once.

“Aren’t you angry?” The words burst out of his mouth. “Aren’t you – it’s his fault you’re here, instead of at home. At home, with your nephews, with your family…”

“I maintain an extensive correspondence with those members of my family I actually like, and for the first time in my life, I am able to ignore those I do not,” Lan Qiren said, and Jiang Cheng choked on the sheer incongruity of the statement. “I will not deny that it is strange to be here, or to think that I will be here for a long while yet. But my family can visit me, and I them, and things will not remain this way forever.”

“Forever, no. But – still –”

“I do not see it as a burden to be here with you.”

Jiang Cheng’s mouth dropped open. Lan Qiren had hit the heart of the matter like a dagger to the chest.

“I have always liked you,” Lan Qiren continued, straightforward and serious and patient, as if it was the first time he was saying those words instead of it being the thousandth repetition – though Jiang Cheng would hear it a thousand times more if he could. “You were a pleasure to teach, and you have not only attempted but achieved the impossible by resurrecting your sect after such devastation. You accomplished that, not Wei Wuxian, and not Wei Wuxian’s golden core; if strength in cultivation were all that were required to lead a Great Sect, we would not be so few in number. Even though the circumstances were not what any of us might have wished, I am pleased to call you my sworn brother.”

He paused – that was where he usually ended this particular recitation – but this time he seemed as though he had more to say. After a moment, he continued.

“I am only regretful that I am not the one you would have wished I be.”

Jiang Cheng had to turn away again, his eyes and nose hot with viciously suppressed tears that had sprung up out of nowhere. It was true, painfully true: it wasn’t supposed to be Lan Qiren that was living here in the Lotus Pier, it wasn’t Lan Qiren that was meant to be Jiang Cheng’s sworn brother.

It should have been Wei Wuxian.

But after Jin Zixuan died and Jiang Yanli died, it hadn’t been Jiang Cheng who had come to Wei Wuxian’s defense against the cultivation world. He’d led the forces that aimed at the Burial Mounds himself, insensate with grief and convinced that Wei Wuxian must have died or lost his soul long ago to have done such terrible things. He’d had some hazy thoughts of being the one to capture him, somehow knock some sense into him, but if he were being honest with himself he knew that it probably wouldn’t have worked out well for either of them if he and the Jin sect had been the first ones to reach the Burial Mounds.

Only – he hadn’t been.

It’d been Lan Wangji that got there first, Lan Wangji that knocked Wei Wuxian out and stole him away along with the rest of the Wen remnants, hiding them all away where the cultivation world wouldn’t ever think to find them. He’d been the one to declare that he and Wei Wuxian had sworn brotherhood with each other, and that that made Wei Wuxian a member of the Lan sect, all but marrying him in as if he were a woman.

(The way his father had, when it had been his bride who was accused…not that anyone outside the Lan sect, and very select others like Jiang Cheng, knew about that.)

Even that stratagem might not have worked, regardless of the Lan sect’s (reluctant) willingness to stand behind Lan Wangji – the cultivation world had pulled back in its confusion and out of respect for the Lan sect’s standing as a Great Sect, but it wouldn’t have lasted very long, not with how angry they were at Wei Wuxian. Only then Wei Wuxian had somehow used the extra few days that Lan Wangji had bought him to figure out that Wen Ning and Wen Qing were not actually dead the way the Jin sect had said he was, only hidden away, and that the supposed attack in Lanling had in fact been of the Jin sect’s own creation, that they’d intentionally incited Wen Ning in order to have a reason to steal Wei Wuxian’s creation and raid the Burial Mounds for his notes, seeking the source of his powers.

Decrying demonic cultivation with one side of their mouth, pursuing it eagerly with the other: the Jin sect had behaved like hypocrites of the first order, and worse, there were rumors that certain small sects that had recently disappeared had not in fact merely scattered or been absorbed into other sects, but turned into experiment fodder for the Jin sect’s vile experiments.

Jin Guangshan, caught with his pants down, had splutteringly tried to exculpate his sect, and when that didn’t work, he cast all the blame on the newly named Jin Guangyao, the bastard child. He’d even blamed him for inciting Jin Zixun to go lay an ambush at the Qiongqi Path, setting up the initial confrontation with Wei Wuxian, and then sending Jin Zixuan out without proper backing, hoping to use Wei Wuxian as a weapon to eliminate the heir that stood in front of him on his way to Jin sect leadership.

He’d offered to have him executed to appease the cultivation world’s anger.  

No one had entirely bought the idea of it all being Jin Guangyao’s fault, not really, but it wasn’t as though most of them were in any position to object, not with the Jin sect being one of the few that was still strong after the Sunshot Campaign. Jin Guangshan might have been able to get away with it, if it hadn’t been for Nie Mingjue stepping forward and claiming Jin Guangyao as a member of his sect through their sworn brotherhood, based on the very same precedent that Lan Wangji had just established. It had saved Jin Guangyao’s life and freed him to testify against his father, confirming all those deeply unfortunate rumors and even more…

Really, it was no surprise that Madame Jin didn’t want Jin Ling to be in Lanling City right now.

As for Lan Qiren, the situation had been quite simple. With the Jin sect in turmoil and the Nie sect temporarily disgraced for having willingly taken in a potential fratricide, and moreover Wei Wuxian, the founder of demonic cultivation, now firmly in the hands of the Lan sect, the entire order of the cultivation world had been turned on its head, with the Lan sect standing ascendant above them all.

Only the Jiang sect was out in the dark alone.

Lan Xichen was Nie Mingjue’s younger sworn brother as well, providing the Nie sect with security, and the Jin sect was in no position to demand anything for themselves; only Jiang Cheng and his sect were the losers, now lacking both Wei Wuxian and adding in the additional burden of Jin Ling, and it had been Jiang Cheng’s own foolish decisions that had led him to that point. In order to maintain balance, to keep the cultivation world from fearing another war like the last one, it seemed obvious to everyone that the Lan sect needed to turn over a hostage to the Jiang in order to maintain peace.

Jiang Cheng hadn’t liked that as the answer, but…it was his sect.

It was something he had to do.

He would always do what his sect needed him to do.

But the question arose of who the hostage could be. It had to be someone of the main line, someone important and valuable enough that the sect would be deeply invested in getting them back, and obviously it couldn’t be Lan Xichen, the sect leader. And yet it seemed cruel for it to be Lan Wangji, who had done so much for Wei Wuxian, who loved him so desperately and who, rumors said, was loved in return…

Even Jiang Cheng, who resented Lan Wangji to no end simply because of how soul-scaldlingly jealous he was of him, didn’t have the heart to split them up.

They had been trapped in a seemingly impassible dilemma, and it had been only solved when Lan Qiren had volunteered himself for the task, pointing out that his nephews would be committed to his well-being in just the way that was required; he’d then ignored their protests and swore brotherhood with Jiang Cheng, agreeing to go live in the Lotus Pier for as long as it took the cultivation world to grow steady and peaceful once more, which would probably only happen when Jin Ling reached adulthood and took on his father’s sect as his own. Sworn brotherhood was what it was called, but it was only a mockery of the more genuine connections that had come before – Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, who were lovers, and Nie Mingjue and Jin Guangyao, who were…something, anyway. In reality, though, out of all of them, Lan Qiren was the only one who really was nothing more than a hostage.

Lan Qiren had taken it more philosophically than Jiang Cheng had.

“It’s not that,” Jiang Cheng finally forced out through numb lips. “It’s not – I like having you here.”

The confession was true, but that sometimes felt like the worst of it, the worst betrayal he had yet done. Wei Wuxian had given Jiang Cheng everything, even his golden core, a revelation that only came after everything had all been agreed, Wen Qing furiously angry from her near-death experience and lashing out recklessly with the truth as her only weapon, no matter how much she regretted it later. Wei Wuxian had given it all to him, and here was Jiang Cheng, living happily, letting another person fill Wei Wuxian’s shoes, take his place, forcing the role on a person who didn’t even belong here, and being traitorously happy about it all.

After all, Wei Wuxian wouldn’t have known what to do with Jin Ling, not the way Lan Qiren did, experienced and confident. Wei Wuxian wouldn’t know all the things Jiang Cheng had never learned about sect leadership, wouldn’t be available as a teacher, as a guide, as a mentor. Wei Wuxian…

Wei Wuxian would never have said I do not see it as a burden to be here with you.

“I am glad,” Lan Qiren said simply.

He even meant it, too.

“I – I can’t –”

“Do not strain yourself. A journey takes a step at a time, you don’t need to rush ahead to the end.”

Jiang Cheng nodded, and looked down at Jin Ling, who’d since fallen asleep, sucking his thumb.

“A teacher,” he finally said, once he’d gotten enough control of himself. He let himself imagine it – not just the actual act of teaching, but the joys behind it: grading papers with Lan Qiren, discussing topics, exchanging anecdotes, rolling their eyes at their juvenile tricks. Even the thought of Jin Ling having more children to play with as he grew up, and a reason to come back every year even after he went back to Lanling… “I could get used to that idea.”

Maybe, one day, he could even bring himself to look at Wei Wuxian’s letters.

Maybe, one day, he could write back.

My family can visit me, and I them, and things will not remain this way forever – that was what Lan Qiren had said. If it was true for him, then why not, maybe, for Jiang Cheng as well?

One day.

Not yet –

But one day.

[ibijau]

I'm in love with the shape of you pt 4/On AO3 Lan Qiren to the rescue!

In the days that followed his return to the Cloud Recesses, Lan Xichen found himself avoiding thoughts of Nie Huaisang to such a degree that it seemed like the start of madness.

He had tried giving in to his interrogations at first, only to find that indulging in his doubts was worse than avoidance. Try as he might, he simply could not make sense of Nie Huaisang’s actions on his own. The way he had acted toward him since finding out the truth about his brother’s murder was entirely at odds with what Lan Xichen had seen that day, in a misty bamboo forest.

It might have helped, had Lan Xichen found someone to discuss this matter with.

Once, he might have turned to Jin Guangyao, his friend, his sworn brother, his confidant. Having discussed with him his worries regarding Lan Wangji’s feelings for the then deceased Wei Wuxian, how could he not have trusted the man with his confusion over Nie Huaisang as well? But Jin Guangyao was dead and buried, and his actions had caused most of the problems Lan Xichen now encountered in understanding Nie Huaisang.

Once, had this issue involved some other person, Lan Xichen might have shared it with Nie Huaisang himself. Gossip was against the rules in the Cloud Recesses, but Nie Huaisang, sentimental soul that he was, liked to be told about other people’s love troubles. At least, that was the air he had given himself. Who knew if he had ever really cared about these things, if he had only used Lan Xichen as another source of information? Some of his interest may have been true at first. Even before losing his brother, even before the Sunshot Campaign, Nie Huaisang had liked to talk about these things. But the person he had become in the end… Lan Xichen wouldn’t have dared to call that man a sentimental soul.

With no friends to turn to, Lan Xichen might have considered turning to family. He did not.

Although his brother and him were on good terms, Lan Wangji was currently absent from the Cloud Recesses, wandering somewhere with his husband once again. Even if he had been there, Lan Xichen was not sure he would have dared breach such a topic with his brother. Wei Wuxian had never renewed his accusations against Nie Huaisang, but that he had made them in the first place couldn’t be erased. If Lan Wangji thought that his husband still held suspicions toward Nie Huaisang, he would be ill disposed toward him, and suspicious of his actions. Lan Xichen was confused enough already, he did not want to deal with another person’s bad opinion on top of that.

The only other option was Lan Qiren.

The less said about that, the better. Lan Xichen did not want to disappoint his uncle by revealing how disastrous his last conversation with Nie Huaisang had really been. And without that crucial information, it was impossible to have an open conversation about what had happened because of that shapeshifter. As a result, it was best to leave Lan Qiren out of this, and bear the burden of doubt alone.

Lan Qiren had his own thoughts about that, however.

When his uncle invited him to share some tea one morning, Lan Xichen thought little of it. He received such an invitation twice a week since he’d left his long seclusion, and while he had sometimes been too busy to accept, as a rule he almost never refused. After everything his brother and him had put their uncle through, Lan Xichen owed his uncle the company he apparently craved these days. 

Things started normally enough. As always, he uncle poured tea for both of them, and after a moment of comfortable silence, they discussed a few current events within the sect. Never anything major, thus was the rule of those meetings. But the progress of juniors, the small disputes between disciples, the latest news of romantic entanglements, these were the things they talked about. It wasn’t gossip, not in the least. Lan Xichen, due to his position, merely needed to know certain details about his disciples’ lives to ensure everything ran smoothly, and Lan Qiren’s opinion on how to handle these things was appreciated. Lan Xichen felt calm and relaxed, until his uncle deliberately ruined the moment.

“I have been meaning to ask,” Lan Qiren said, “did anything special happen during that Night Hunt the other week?”

Busy as he was, Lan Xichen had gone on no Night Hunt since defeating that shapeshifter. Even if he had, only one could have caused questions from his uncle.

“Which one do you mean?” he still asked, as innocently as he could.

“I think you know that,” Lan Qiren replied, looking so disappointed that his nephew felt a pang of guilt. “I am sure you have tried your best not to let it affect you, Xichen, but I have known you your entire life. Something happened there, and it has led you to distraction. The boys who went with you told me you nearly lost control of your sword on the way back. I put it up to exhaustion, but your behaviour since has been altered, and I must conclude you saw something that has affected you.”

Lan Xichen said nothing. In spite of his efforts, he hadn’t quite regained his old level of self control yet, it appeared. Before everything that happened with Jin Guangyao and Nie Huaisang, his uncle never used to notice his changes of mood, which was exactly as Lan Xichen preferred it.

“I’ve read the reports on that creature,” Lan Qiren went on. “I am surprised that the children mentioned the shapeshifter likely took the shape of loved ones of its victim, but your own account left that detail out.”

“Pure speculation,” Lan Xichen stiffly replied.

His uncle raised an eyebrow, making Lan Xichen feel like he was a six years old being interrogated about a broken vase. But he was not six anymore, and the impulse to confess the truth was more easily contained these days, so Lan Xichen remained silent.

“If you saw something you wished to have never seen, you are not to blame,” Lan Qiren stated, his expression softening. “If that creature indeed had such a cruel talent… and you have known so much loss. The human heart is not so easily controlled, and guilt is no remedy to love.”

“I’m not sure what you mean,” Lan Xichen sincerely replied. “Truly, I do not.”

“Then I will be more clear. Out of everyone you have lost, some may have affected you more than others, were you to have seen their shape again. If you found yourself face to face with Nie Mingjue, or with Jin Guangyao… I can only imagine what a torture that may have been for you.”

Lan Xichen shivered. What shape had that creature tried to take, when it had turned its attention to him? Someone familiar, someone dear to him. It may have been either of these men, the sworn brothers whose murders he had helped with. It might even have been Nie Huaisang, the last living person he had ever called a friend. 

It was a small blessing that Lan Xichen should never know which of them might have been best used against him.

“Uncle, I did not lie in my report,” Lan Xichen insisted. “The creature never had a chance to transform to target me. It was too focused on another victim”

“Then what happened to affect you so much?”

“It is the shape it took for the sake of that person,” Lan Xichen hesitantly confessed when he realised his uncle would not drop the matter. “For this person, the creature transformed into me, and talked of love to get him to surrender.”

He could still hear it, his own voice saying words he had never told anyone. Words he would have imagined to be repulsive to Nie Huaisang. And yet Nie Huaisang had clung to the impostor, and given in to him, as if…

“Is that really it?” Lan Qiren asked, astonished. “Are you truly that perturbed by someone’s unrequited feelings for you? My boy, we are Lans, I thought you had gotten used to such situations at your age.”

Lan Xichen grimaced. It was true that he’d had to bear with his share of awkward situations in the past. Parents begging him to marry their enamoured daughters, young men trying too hard to befriend him… Members of the Lan sect had a reputation for beauty and good character that always got them admirers, not all of whom were pleasant about their unrequited love. Lan Xichen had learned to live with it, as they all did, and nothing of the sort had affected him in years.

“There is more to it,” Lan Xichen explained. “This person… this man is someone who never showed any signs of harbouring such feelings for me. In fact, if I’d had to guess, until that moment I would have said that person disliked me.”

For a moment, Lan Xichen feared his uncle would guess the identity of his admirer, but Lan Qiren remained politely puzzled. It was a relief, and Lan Xichen decided he couldn’t share the rest of what bothered him, such as the creature’s insistence on understanding and forgiving Nie Huaisang, as if that had been what he craved, more than mere love. Lan Xichen was also haunted by the sight of Nie Huaisang, weak and crying on the ground, as if in taking that illusion of love for him, he had dealt the other man a mortal blow. And then there had been Nie Huaisang’s horror at seeing the true Lan Xichen at his side, the way he had run away in spite of his weakened state…

It occurred to Lan Xichen that if he had been a more cruel person, or if he had felt Jin Guangyao deserved to be avenged, he might easily have used what he had learned about Nie Huaisang to hurt him. A certain type of person would have done it, perhaps spreading rumours to ruin what was left of his reputation. It was not a tactic Lan Xichen himself would have ever used. But since it was what Nie Huaisang had done to others, it may have been something he feared to see done to him. 

And then there was the fact that Nie Huaisang, who had watched his father and brother die so cruelly, may have felt for a moment that he’d also watched Lan Xichen suffer a terrible fate. What must that have done to his heart, when already he had lost so much?

“It is a tricky situation,” Lan Qiren conceded. “If that man’s feelings are so complicated, there are only two ways to deal with it. You could choose to forget about it. What happened, happened. The way some stranger feels for you is unimportant, even if his feelings are different from what you expected.”

Lan Xichen shook his head. Since Nie Huaisang was more than a stranger, to do such a thing seemed impossible.

“What is the other option?”

Lan Qiren shot his nephew a sharp look, as if with that answer, Lan Xichen had betrayed much of what he sought to hide.

“If this really affects you so much, then you must talk with that person, of course,” Lan Qiren stated. “Ask him about what you saw, clarify things between the two of you, and then you will be free to move on with your life. It is what I would do.”

He likely meant that, Lan Xichen knew. His uncle tended to be amazingly rational when confronted with unwanted admirers, and he never seemed to suffer from any awkwardness as he turned them down. Lan Xichen could only wish he had that strength. Even with a normal person, he would have been uncomfortable with confrontation. But when it came to Nie Huaisang of all people, with all the history between them… 

“I am not sure I can do that, uncle.”

“Then I will order that you try,” Lan Qiren mercilessly retorted. “For my sake, if not for yours. I cannot watch you go on in that state, so you will talk to that man, and soon.”

It was rare these days that his uncle would feel the need to order him around. He must have been truly worried, then, and perhaps not without reason, when Lan Xichen had given him so much trouble these past few years. 

Feeling he owed his uncle, Lan Xichen promised he would obey at the earliest convenience.

[jaimebluesq]

always found it interesting that despite the fact he clearly wants the sect to remain in the family, nie mingjue literally never made any attempts at continuing his bloodline, foisting it off on huaisang instead along with the sect leader title. what if it was he couldn't have had kids even if he wanted to, because taking up baxia too early caused him to become sterile? and admitting as much would have been too humiliating? anyway, brotherly scene where he's forced to come clean about it, and whether it ends in a decision to adopt or huaisang agreeing to take up a political marriage in the future just for heirs or whatever is up to you.

Oh Anon, you have no idea how close this idea is to my heart because of my own life experiences. I love that you came up with it, and thank you for sending it to me... now let’s see if I can do it justice.

~ ~ ~

Nie Huaisang stood outside his brother’s office, his hands twisting upon his closed fan. He’d been anxious for days, trying to figure out how to broach a particularly sensitive topic with his brother – had practised with both Nie Zonghui and Jin Guangyao to try and get his words just right. Oh, it was something he’d tried asking many times before, but his brother had always brushed him off and directed him to the training field for saber practice.

Not today. Today, he would get an answer whether his brother liked it or not.

Before he could talk himself out of it, he knocked on the door and entered when his brother called out. He was careful to close the door behind himself before approaching his brother’s desk.

“What is it?” Nie Mingjue asked tiredly, his fingers rubbing at his temple. “Isn’t it time for-”

“Saber practice was this morning,” he replied, “and I actually attended today.” He’d attended only to leave one less thing to anger his brother on the day he came to seek answers – though Nie Mingjue’s fatigue made him wonder if he should have chosen a different day. But then, his brother looked tired most days since the end of the war.

“If you’re asking about-”

“Da-ge?” He waited until his brother finally looked up at him. “I... wanted to talk to you. About something important.”

Nie Mingjue looked him over, then picked up his papers and set them aside. He sat back in his chair, hands on the arms and fingers drumming along the cherry wood, waiting for Nie Huaisang to speak.

The first thing Nie Huaisang did was sit down to face his brother. “I heard from Zonghui that you received a request for an alliance from Yao-zongzhu,” he began, wanting to ease into the subject he wanted to address.

His brother sniffed. “He’s trying to pawn off his sister to anyone who’ll have her, all to tie himself to one of the great sects. I’ve no desire to ally with the Yao.”

“But what about the He,” Nie Huaisang prodded. “Or the Lan – Er-ge told me he has a younger cousin that’s quite lovely and kind and would make a wonderful furen. Or the Jiang – I know Jiang-xiong doesn’t have any blood relatives, but he has some promising lady disciples that would-”

“We don’t need another alliance,” Nie Mingjue ground out through gritted teeth. “Is that why you’re here? To harass me about getting married? Leave it alone – it’s none of your business.”

It was the same answer he had given Nie Huaisang before – but it was one he could no longer accept.

“But Da-ge... it is my business,” he said with a shaky voice that grew stronger with every word he spoke. “It’s my business because this is the reason I’m your heir, and I have the right to know why.”

Nie Mingjue narrowed his eyes, his face turning dark. “If this is just another argument to get out of saber practice-”

“I don’t want this!” Nie Huaisang’s voice broke mid-sentence. He tightened his grip on his fan. “I don’t want to be sect leader one day, you know this. And the Elders don’t want me either – you’ve heard what they say about me when my back is turned.”

“If you would only practice your saber more-”

“It won’t do a thing, Da-ge, because I’m not meant for this!” He took in a shaky breath. “Please, Da-ge, don’t make me do this anymore. You, me, the sect, we all deserve better, don’t we? Please don’t tell me you genuinely think me being heir is the best thing for Qinghe Nie?”

“This sect must be led by a member of our family’s main line,” Nie Mingjue insisted.

“Then why haven’t you started a family to inherit the sect?”

“Because I can’t!!!”

Nie Huaisang felt glued to his seat. There was something in the tone of his brother’s voice... it wasn’t anger, not just anger, but it was painful to hear. And then his brother’s shoulders dropped and he brought a hand to rub at his temple, and Nie Huaisang could have sworn he saw a glint of wetness in his brother’s eyes.

“I can’t,” Nie Mingjue repeated, slower and a little calmer.

When Nie Mingjue looked up, their eyes met. The two of them breathed heavily for several moments, broken only when Nie Mingjue picked up a document and threw it across the room. Nie Huaisang heard a rattling nearby; he glanced over to where Baxia trembled lightly in her stand.

“When one of us becomes sect leader,” Nie Mingjue explained, “there are many different rituals and sect secrets we learn from the Elders and other sect officials. And one of the very first things they tell us is that we need to work immediately on birthing an heir. Because our lives are so short, and one never knows when we’ll be taken out by a Yao or a qi deviation, or some tyrannical sect leader who doesn’t like being opposed.”

Nie Huaisang swallowed hard. His brother had only been fifteen when their father had died... he couldn’t imagine being told he had to become a father when he was only fifteen.

“None of the other sects helped me try to bring evidence against Wen Ruohan for what he did to A-Die, and I certainly wasn’t going to ally with any of them.” Nie Mingjue grimaced. “It was suggested to me that we find someone outside the sect, someone completely apart from the cultivation world, who wouldn’t have known enough to vie for power. I... I had no idea what to do, who to look for. All I’d ever done before was train, and when I did have tender thoughts, they weren’t about the girls they brought before me.”

This didn’t surprise Nie Huaisang – he’d seen the looks exchanged between Nie Mingjue and his ‘sworn brothers’. He nodded.

“So we finally settled on someone to try with,” Nie Mingjue continued. His voice already sounded lighter than when he had first begun explaining, and Nie Huaisang wondered if his brother had ever told this story to anyone else before – if Er-ge and San-ge even knew. “She was kind, and patient. The agreement was that if she became with child, then we would officially bring her in as a concubine. But after a year of trying once a week, every week... nothing happened. And then the Elders insisted on trying with another woman because the problem ‘obviously’ wasn’t with Nie-zongzhu, and before I knew it, I had four women I didn’t want that I had to lay with, all to try and do my duty to my sect.”

By this point, Nie Mingjue was no longer looking at Nie Huaisang, but rather staring out the nearby window. A part of Nie Huaisang wanted to tell his brother to stop, to tell him he didn’t have to say anything more – but the other part of him really wanted to hear the answer, to understand what had gone wrong, both for his brother and himself.

“After another two, three years of nothing, the Elders called in a highly respected physician. He looked me over, did a few tests, and then the Elders discussed the results. And then they told me that I was a rare case – that training so aggressively from such a young age may have made me stronger than anyone else in our sect, but it also had the side-effect of rendering me... barren, so to speak.” He sighed. “We called off the women after paying them handsomely for their efforts, and we helped them find husbands who would honour them properly. And then I named you my heir permanently.”

Nie Huaisang’s shoulders felt heavy even as he tried to roll one of them back. “Why didn’t you tell me, Da-ge?” he asked softly.

Nie Mingjue snorted. “Your voice hadn’t even begun to change when all this happened. The only things you knew about such matters were from spring books – and yes, I know you’ve had them since you were twelve, I’m not an idiot. There was no way I was going to lay this on you.”

“I may have been young, but so were you.” Nie Huaisang tried to offer a smile when his brother finally faced him again. “And... this is something we’ve needed to discuss, for the good of our sect. After all, I’m not a boy anymore.”

“You’ll always be a boy,” Nie Mingjue countered with a wistful smile. “The tiniest little thing that Xiao-Niang brought out to me and told me to protect it for the rest of my life.”

“Da-ge,” Nie Huaisang whined, mostly to break the seriousness of the moment.

Nie Mingjue let out a chuckle. “Well, you know now.”

Nie Huaisang nodded. “And now we can figure out what to do about it.” His brother’s eyebrow lifted. “Because the way I see it, the moment you die – which you’re not allowed to do, by the way, not without my permission – this sect will immediately undergo a challenge to leadership, because there are far too many people who don’t see me as a proper leader. And quite frankly, they’re right. So... I’m presuming adopting is out of the question, or else you would have done it already...” As he spoke, he began counting off fingers from his hand.

“Ideally, the leadership would remain in the main family line,” Nie Mingjue explained tentatively.

“Well, I suppose that leaves us with only one option left,” he concluded with a nod to the growing confusion on his brother’s face. “The only question is, do we work to ally with another sect, or find someone outside the Jianghu? Because I don’t mind getting married or taking a concubine, but I do not want anything to do with Yao-zongzhu’s sister. Just because I enjoy pretty ladies does not mean I want a part of that mess>”

“You can’t be serious!” Nie Mingjue huffed. “You’re just a boy!”

“I’m the same age as Jin Zixuan,” he countered, “and he’s marrying Jiang-guniang in a few months.” He absently chewed on his bottom lip. “And just the other day in Lanling, I was chatting with Madame Qin – she is very much not in favour of Qin Su’s little crush on San-ge, by the way – and she was trying to encourage me to ask her to walk in the gardens. She is rather pretty, and-” He paused at the stare his brother gave him.

“You don’t have to do this,” Nie Mingjue sighed. “Just because I can’t do this, it doesn’t mean you have to give up your life like this.”

He met his brother’s gaze in a way he never would have done as a boy. “I’m a Nie,” he explained, “and we both know we have had to fulfill our duties to our sect. I know I can’t fulfill mine on the battlefield – I was never meant to be a soldier or even a cultivator – but I can do this.”

The corners of Nie Mingjue’s eyes crinkled, and he nodded. “Qin-zongzhu’s daughter does seem like a good choice,” he finally agreed, “but the girl is still enamoured with A-Yao no matter how he has tried to dissuade her.”

“Then I imagine San-ge would have a vested interest in helping her get over him,” he grinned, “don’t you think?” Nie Mingjue nodded. Nie Huaisang stood up and stretched out his back. “I’ll go write him a letter and see what he has to say, and we’ll go from there.” He began walking to the office door, but stopped at his brother’s voice.

“But for the record,” Nie Mingjue announced, his tone steady and strong, “you and the Elders are wrong. You might not be meant for the battlefield, but... a sect needs a different kind of leader in peace-time, and you would make a good one.”

Nie Huaisang swallowed through his suddenly tight throat. He made no sound, nothing to indicate he’d heard his brother’s words, and continued on his way out the door.

But his heart flooded with warmth at one of the few compliments he’d ever received from his brother.

[lgbtlunaverse]

A slightly unhinged case for jin guangyao knowing about the core transfer while WWX was still alive

Ok. SO. In chapter 101, during guangyin temple, Jin Guangyao clearly knows about the golden core transfer. He uses it to bring Jiang Cheng off-kilter and stab him and simultaneously reveals to wwx that jc himself now knows about the golden core transfer.

I've always wondered exactly when he figured it out. The most obvious explanation is that he pieced it together after hearing about Jiang Cheng asking everyone to unsheathe suibian (also? jgy? how the fuck do you know that? You were already going to/at Guanyin temple at this point! Did you just have people listen in on rumours from Yunmeng and report back to you for that?? Did you tell your spy network where you were going? My whole kingdom for a retelling of this arc from the pov of these random jin disciples seeing their sect leader start spiralling. He's diggin up random tombs? Fleeing the country? And threatening the heir's life?? What was random Jin cultivator #6 thinking of this before Nie Mingjue turned him into minced meat?)

BUT.

The first time I read that line I was like "oh so he's known for a WHILE." I mean, the line "I've always found it peculiar [that wwx never took his sword anywhere]" does indicate he's been thinking about this for a while, but it doesn't have to mean he knew back then. So I absolutely can't say with certainty that my instinct was right. But I DO have some decent canon backing for how he might have potentially figured things out as early as before Wei Wuxian's death. Specifically, after the discussion scene that takens place when wei wuxian does his thing with the wens and dissapears.

Cause, see, Wen Chao would definitely have bragged about Wen Zhuliu crushing Jiang Cheng's core to his father. He killed the current sect leader, and then permanently disabled the only heir. He did it! the Jiang are gone! I bet he was very loud about it until, a few weeks later, Jiang Cheng suddenly strolls up to the battlefield, with Zidian on his finger, cultivation very much intact, looking for Wei Wuxian.

That must've been fucking baffling if you were Wen Chao and/or Wen Zhuliu and/or any other cultivator who was there and definitely saw Jiang Cheng's core get crushed. They must have assumed something went wrong, or he faked having his core destroyed, but we've never heard of something like that happening before, and they tortured him for hours! It wasn't a quick batle where Wen Zhuliu must have missed in haste, he would've noticed!

Now, by the time Meng yao arrives, wen zhuliu and wen chao are both long dead, but that kind of thing would at least still be a source of gossip among the other Wen. The only time the core melting hand ever failed!

It might be something that, say... a very careful spy with a perfect memory looking for information... might pick up on in his stay with the Wen, no?

So, Meng Yao has heard the rumour that sect leader Jiang got his core crushed but somehow managed to... still have a core.

Independantly of his, Wei Wuxian is being really weird and refusing to carry his sword. His primary concern there is wwx stirring shit up, he has no reason to believe these things are connected yet.

But then Wei Wuxian runs off with a bunch of Wen, and before he is cut off, Jiang Cheng tells everyone that after the siege on lotus pier, he and wei wuxian were helped by Wen Qing and Wen Ning! Jiang Cheng doesn't get to say how, which is good for jgy in this moment because he's trying to steer the conversation as such that no one gets mad at the Jin sect for all the war crimes, but even if his goal is for everyone else to forget Jiang Cheng said that, he'd remember it.

So... after the moment where jiang cheng, according to rumours that were contained to the wen, lost his core, he was helped by wen ning and wen qing, who is a really good doctor. And, in canon, had written theoretical proposals on core transfers before, just never experimented on them. Were these available for others among the Wen to read? Did jgy read them? We have no way of knowing. But if he did, he remembers them. Either way, he knows her reputation.

And Wei Wuxian disappeared right round that same moment, only to resurface with his demonic cultivation, at which point he never touched his sword again. Not even in the middle of a dangerous war. Not even when he was public enemy number one and it would do wonders for his reputation if he was seen cultivating the traditional path. When doing so would have made not just him but the 50 people he was shielding safer! if Jin guangyao was somehow in his position, he'd immediately do everything he could to counteract the narrative of beign a dangerous madman who'd left the straight path. Wei Wuxian has been in absolutely desperate situations and still refuses to pick up his sword...

The saying doesn't exist yet, but i'm sure someone like jgy, more competent than everyone around him, is intimately familair with at least the sentiment of "never ascribe to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" He is helping spread the narrative of Wei Wuxian as a violent madman, sure, but does he believe it? If it makes no sense for wei wuxian, no longer a privileged young master but an outcast, to not pick up his sword again out of arrogancy, the most reliable explanation is that he... can't.

So Jiang Cheng, who got his core melted, got help from Wen Qing, an incredible doctor, after which he coud cultivate just fine but Wei Wuxian, no matter how desperate, never used traditional cultivation ever again...

Hm. interesting!

It's likely no one else in the jianghu outside of the wen even knew Jiang Cheng lost his core to begin with. And Jin Guangyao was never given wwx's excuse of Baoshan Sanren owing him a favor like Jiang Cheng was. He has all the puzzle pieces in front of him and... if anyone as gonna put them together, it'd be him.

And that's my unhinged case for why I believe Jin Guangyao knew Wei Wuxian didn't have a golden core anymore years before anyone else did. He just never told anyone, because why would he?

I think this adds a whole other level to his speech to Jiang Cheng about how everything could've worked out if he'd just trusted Wei Wuxian more and stood by his side. He saw it all play out in real time knowing there was more going on beneath the surface!

Now the really interesting question becomes: When did he figure out Jiang Cheng himself wasn't in on it? Did he piece it together immediately from remembering seeing jiang cheng berate wwx for not carrying a sword, a thing he should've known he couldn't do? Or was it not until later, maybe the fake yunmeng bros fallout, or the REAL fallout when Jiang Yanli died? Or was it still the news of Jiang Cheng going around and asking everyone to unsheathe subian that made him realize that oh my god this stupid bitch had no idea the whole time.

[thatswhatsushesaid]

i fell in love with jin guangyao when he threw his hands up (metaphorically) at nie mingjue during the stair debacle and went "wow you really Cannot understand me. fine. i tried. skill issue"!! i thought it was so cool how neatly he dual-wielded justified terror, justified snark, and a sincere attempt at making himself understood. i guess that's triple-wielding, actually, but you get it

you’re right, i do get it, i get it so much. 🤝🤝🤝 that moment turned me into the unhinged jgy stan i am today.

Jin GuangYao sighed, “Brother, it really was my father’s orders. I couldn’t refuse. Now, if you want me to take care of Xue Yang, what would I say to him?”

Nie MingJue, “There’s no need for explanations. Come back to me with Xue Yang’s head in your hand.”

Jin GuangYao still wanted to speak, but Nie MingJue had already lost all patience, “Meng Yao, don’t speak such pretentious words in front of me. Your whole thing stopped working on me since a long time ago!”

Within a second, a few degrees of unease flashed over Jin GuangYao’s face, as though someone with an unmentionable illness was suddenly exposed in the public. There was nowhere for him to hide.

He spoke, “My whole thing? Which whole thing? Brother, you’ve always yelled at me for calculating people and being too dishonorable. You say that you’re a proud, righteous person, that you aren’t afraid of anything, that propen men shouldn’t need to play with schemes. That’s fine. Your background is noble and your cultivation is high. But what about me? Am I the same as you? First, my cultivation isn’t as firm as yours. Ever since I was born, has anyone taught me? And second, I have no prominent background. Do you think that I’m in a steady position, here at the LanlingJin Sect? Do you think that I can rise into power the moment Jin ZiXuan dies? Jin GuangShan would rather bring another illegitimate child back than want me to succeed him! You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I’m afraid of everything, even other people! He whose stomach is full believes not him who is starving.”

EXR translation, pg 498 & 499

then comes the part of the text where imo jgy is 100% aware of the fact that nmj is going to hear his words and choose the worst faith interpretation of them. this feels like one last moment to give nmj a chance to prove him wrong about what he knows inevitably is about to happen, and it has been quoted and discussed so many times that i don’t think i need to do so again. but i will add this moment too, because i don’t think jgy gets enough credit for the brutal, savage humour in this line, after he gets kicked down the stairs:

Jin GuangYao only landed after rolling down more than fifty steps. He didn’t even stay on the ground for long before crawling up. With a wave of his hand, he sent away the servants and disciples who surrounded him. Dusting off his robes, he slowly raised his head to look at Nie MingJue. His eyes were quite calm, almost indifferent. Just as Nie MingJue unsheathed his saber, Lan XiChen happened to leave the palace to see what was going on, concerned after having waited for long. Seeing the situation before him, he unsheathed Shuoyue as well, “What happened, this time?”

Jin GuangYao, “Nothing. Brother, thank you for your advice.”

EXR translation, pg 500

rating: siiiiiiiiick

[allthelittlecreepycrawlies]

OK big thanks to @micchikureshima for letting me rant this concept out in discord because otherwise I probably never would have gotten it typed.

This is basically throwing together multiple ideas i've already posted (the meng yao has serious misconceptions idea and the tumblr post about the sect rejecting huaisang as heir and him leaving to keep from forcing mingjue between a rock and a hard place) into one vaguely coherent storyline.

Also it's gonna be long, so some of it will go under a cut.

Starting with that fic where Meng Yao wakes up to find Nie Huaisang burying a bird he couldn't save, slide to the left into a timeline where Meng Yao didn't go outside and thus never got his POV recontextualized. Having only his preconceived notions and gossip to go on, he starts quietly developing a resentment against Huaisang.

It kind of comes to a head when he's convinced to accept some local wine at a dinner and is so not ready for the paint thinner they drink in Qinghe. In vino veritas or a reversal of the 'confessing to a crush while drunk' trope where he says some very uncharitable things about Huaisang while plastered.

When he wakes up the next morning with a massive hangover and remembers what happened, he's mortified and convinced he's in so much trouble.

But... he's not?

In fact, his insults towards the sect heir seems to have actually gained him some popularity, even among disciples and soldiers who didn't like him before. And while Nie Mingjue isn't among the ones who outright thought it was funny, even he says his silly useless brother brought it on himself, and maybe he'll learn from it.

And Huaisang definitely learned from it, even if the only lesson he took was to avoid Meng Yao completely to keep from being further humiliated. The only time they're in the same room together after that is if Huaisang can't get out of it.

Like when Nie Mingjue sends Meng Yao along with the prospective students to make sure there are no Incidents, not caring how uncomfortable his brother is about it. Grow up, Huaisang, you're going to be dealing with people who don't like you your entire life, it's just a thing people expected to work in politics have to live with.

On the trip, Meng Yao notices that while he doesn't keep any, Huaisang seems to be able to charm wild birds with ease. It briefly makes him wonder about the aviary… but no, not important.

It's not enough for him to start questioning his earlier opinions.

Veering fully into CQL-territory for a moment, Huaisang gets home on time this go around instead of making the long detour because he doesn't want to be stuck with Meng Yao any longer than necessary, but the Yunmeng group still arrives with Xue Yang in tow, the Wens still show up, Meng Yao still gets injured, Xue Yang still gets freed, and the captain still gets killed.

When Meng Yao finds himself banished, he is caught off guard when Nie Huaisang is angry about it (this time entirely because he thinks it's bad form to exile someone who's still badly wounded, especially when they got that wound in the line of duty), but he correctly believes nothing will come of it when Huaisang says he'll talk to his brother, so he leaves while Huaisang is gone. Back to MDZS canon but with a bonus character, It's not until the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when Jin Guangyao is having to put up with his family's general everything that the situation changes.

Shortly after his father has read him the riot act over the Jiang sect's behavior during the hunt, he comes across Nie Huaisang and Nie Zonghui quietly talking on one of the guest balconies.

"It's probably just different when it's family. Or else I'm just that much of a monster, if I'm less forgivable than someone like Jin Guangshan."

…Oh.

Jin Guangyao doesn't stick around to hear what Nie Zonghui says in response, but the short exchange haunts him as he goes back to his duties.

What has Huaisang done that's in any way comparable to his relatives' behavior?

Now that he's trying to actually think of anything, he can't find an answer.

In fact, he can't stop wondering if he hadn't been coloring Huaisang's behavior with Jin gold the entire time, his first encounter with his father's sect having tainted his opinion. He'll apologize, he decides.

But he doesn't get the chance before the conference is over, kept so busy by everyone's demands that he can barely catch his breath. and even after the other sects are gone, his father constantly has new tasks and orders and creepy little plots for him to carry out.

Before he realizes it, it's been almost a month.

And then his spies in Qinghe tell him about the inheritance chaos going on in the Unclean Realms.

And then Nie Huaisang is gone. Walked out into the night and vanished with only a letter to his brother left behind.

Nie Mingjue of course doesn't bring it up with him, why would he? Even if they've sworn brotherhood, they're still mostly on the outs. but he hears from er-ge that Nie Mingjue won't talk about it with anyone, not even him. Just keeping it all bottled up and boiling.

He should be relieved, even with this new source of tension. Now it doesn't matter if he apologizes or not.

That doesn't make the discomfort go away, though, because he's plagued by the same doubts as Nie Mingjue, wondering how much he contributed to public opinion eventually forcing Huaisang out.

Months later, just after Jin Ling is born, Jin Guangshan is already expecting to throw a massively extravagant hundred days celebration and has Jin Guangyao making all the arrangements and gathering all the necessary supplies.

His current assignment is to visit some merchants the Jin sect occasionally does business with in a little port town in order to arrange some expensive future kitchen deliveries.

There's a painter doing portraits for a tourist couple on one of the piers.

Nie Huaisang is almost unrecognizable. He's thinner, his clothes are plain and unadorned, his hair pulled up into a bun with no braids. If it weren't for the black and gold bird singing on his shoulder as he works, Jin Guangyao would have overlooked him entirely, and even then, it's only the green eyes that make him realize just who he's looking at.

He watches as Huaisang chats amiably with the couple, all bubbling cheer like he used to be whenever trying to win friends, and Jin Guangyao wonders if leaving the sect has really had any effect on him at all. And then as soon as they walk away, happy with their souvenir, the mask vanishes and he looks so tired and withdrawn, even as the bird comforts him by pulling at his hair.

Ah. Jin Guangyao knows all too well what it's like wearing that mask.

It looks like the apology will still be necessary.

Jin Guangyao manages to coax huaisang into at least meeting for dinner if only for a free meal, and it becomes clear as they exchange (mostly) meaningless small talk that while Huaisang has a lot of 'neighbors' because he does a lot of small clerical or scribing jobs here and there, he has completely given up on any actual social relationships and mostly keeps to himself.

And he doesn't really believe the apology, mostly because it seems everyone else agrees with Jin Guangyao's original opinions of him, so why would he walk it back? But he's grateful for the food anyway, so Jin Guangyao decides that has to be enough for now and he'll work on proving his change of heart in other small ways when he's not as constrained by having to conduct sect business matters on this trip.

With the hatchet sort of buried, Jin Guangyao will report on what he's seen to Nie Mingjue.

It turns out Mingjue hasn't even opened any of his brother's letters, though he's been keeping them all. He's convinced himself they'll just make him madder and he's barely holding it together as it is. But whatever Jin Guangyao tells him makes him finally read them, and when the last one mentions giving up on writing, he realizes it's been almost a month and a half since it was sent, when before, the letters had been arriving practically weekly.

Fuck. Huaisang really did give up. All he's been doing by keeping this bottled up is pushing his brother even further away.

He decides that a response letter at this point won't do, and besides, he wants to see for himself this new (difficult, if Jin Guangyao didn't lie) life Huaisang's been living.

The resulting…. not a confrontation, but not exactly a reunion in the seaside town is super awkward and uncomfortable for both Nie brothers, but at least it ends with them understanding each other a little bit better? At least they'll start writing each other properly, as will Jin Guangyao and Huaisang.

(And that's pretty much as far as I got on this idea, so it'll stay pretty open ended.)

[panther-os]

love is an open door

I had an idea and decided to post on Tumblr for once 🤷‍♀️ Title is a little silly because I feel like it, takes place post-canon in an ambiguous continuity

The Super Secret Highly Confidential Youngest Siblings Meetings were started by Nie Huaisang under protest by everyone else except Wen Qionglin, who was far too nervous to protest at all. Functionally, this meant it was really under protest by Jiang Wanyin and under sullen silence by Lan Zhan himself. True to form, Nie Huaisang pretended he had no idea you and Jiang Cheng were so at odds, Wangji-xiong, I really didn't know.

Lan Zhan gave this reality the consideration it was due - none - and spent the first several meetings glaring wordlessly at his brother-in-law rather than taking part in whatever family therapy Huaisang thought he was doing. Months later, though, Jiang Wanyin was deep in his cups when Lan Zhan arrived and he had pointed directly at him and slurred "And you. You better take care of A-Xian. You don't yell. You have to fix that. You have to yell a little, threaten to break his legs some. He's so stupid with himself that if you don't make it absolutely clear you'll never speak to him again if he gets hurt, he'll go off and do it all the time just to prove you're paying attention to him."

Lan Zhan didn't realize until he got home that it was the anniversary of the Nightless City Bloodbath, a date he'd put out of his mind completely as soon as he possibly could because Wei Ying was back now. Huaisang had played that one well.

He still didn't like Jiang Wanyin, but he no longer hated him either and he made an effort to engage more and be less hostile at following meetings. Wen Qionglin was very clearly effusively grateful and just as clearly trying not to draw attention to it in case it went back to the way it was before.

Now, Lan Zhan was worried about his brother's seclusion, but he knew himself to be a biased source, and Wei Ying even more so with as invested as he was in Lan Zhan's happiness. But when Jiang Wanyin, who was as unbiased as possible and demonstrably uninterested in Wei Ying's happiness, spoke up at a meeting another several months after the anniversary, he knew for certain there was something to be worried about.

"I've only seen him twice in the last six months and I can tell he's getting worse," Wanyin groused. "Seclusion doesn't fix anything when you're clearly trying to run away from problems in your own head. That's what training until you can't feel your own limbs is for. Or if that fails, traveling and night-hunting until you're bleeding out on a hostel floor and realize life's too short to care about guilt over things that are over and done with."

Lan Zhan suddenly remembered the minor uproar when Jiang-zongzhu passed leadership of his sect to his first disciple for a fortnight and spent the time touring the whole of Yunmeng alone, ostensibly to personally check in on all of Jiang's vassal towns and surrounding lesser sects. Clearly there was a bit more to it than that. He did not want to know more.

"I can convince him to break seclusion," Lan Zhan said confidently. He could, after all, but it was simply not done, but if even foreign sect leaders could tell seclusion was only hurting Xichen further, then maybe there was no need to consider what was and was not done in this matter.

So after the meeting had finished, Lan Zhan flew home. He knocked on his brother's door and he knelt on the porch and waited for the door to open. He knew it would open this time, if for no other reason than that he knew his brother loved him.

may or may not upload to ao3 later. please reblog, please do not repost

[a-blue-nony]

Tags: First Siege of the Burial Mounds (Modao Zushi), Soulmate-Identifying Marks, Alternate Universe - Soulmates, Sad Ending, Hurt No Comfort, ah yes killing your soulmate, Tragedy MingXian Fest 2024

Relationship: implied past MingXian

Summary:

"When your soulmate dies, their final words to you etch themselves into your skin and your life looses its color."

Nie Mingjue had once read in his sects ancient texts, he had wondered if it was meant to be taken literally or metaphorically.

He finds out the answer himself.

The putrid scent of rot covered Nie Mingjue as he raised his saber yet again, cutting through a number of fierce corpses in one heavy strike. He had been carving a path across them without paying them much attention, it was only when one had lunged dangerously close did he stumble back.

“Sect Leader! Are you alright?” He waved off his mens' concern, motioning back for them to continue. Just now, he had managed to get a good look at the creature....its tattered body was certainly attempting its best to kill him, and yet it seemed to be begging, ‘dont, dont’

The whispers which he had previously dismissed, seemed to come back into his focus. It was as if all the corpses were in one way or another pleading for them to back off.

A sense of unease overcame him, he couldn't but look again, as the men around him -both his sect and the Lans- too heedlessly fought on, not noticing this particular oddity.

It wasn’t that odd, it was logical that the corpses must be trying to protect Wei Wuxian, but a deep sense of wrongness clung to him, he couldn’t shake it off.

Because he was distracted, he was late in reacting to a surprise attack from his peripherals until Nie Zonghui rushed forward and shielded him. The man turned to himself as if to scold him, but stopped mid track, staring at himself astonished.

Dazedly, Nie Mingjue became aware that at some point tears had started falling down his face, relentless and unbridled. He rubbed his eyes but the tears wouldn’t abate.

A surge of crushing pain coursed through his body, pulsating from deep within his heart. He howled and fell to his knees, clutching his chest as his disciples rushed over frantically.

The agony burnt him from inside out: even with his eyes tightly shut, his eyes kept weeping, this time accompanied by an inexplicable mourning taking hold of him.

It wasn’t inexplicable. Nie Mingjue knew the reason even if he didn’t want to understand.

As expected, when he opened his eyes, the once vibrant colors of the world had bled into a monotone grey, emptiness gripped him, hollowing him out from within.

“Good News Zongzhu! Wei Wuxian is dead!”

His soulmate had died.

It was as if a shard of ice had lodged itself permanently in his heart. On his skin, deep red letters glowed bright, “...You’re not the man who I thought you were.” Those last words Wei Wuxian had spoken to him became etched for him to remember forever.

As if to mock his pain, memories not his own flooded his mind; the memories of his youth, his happiness, his sadness, his grief, his final moments-

He had waited that day, he waited for Nie Mingjue to come, and Nie Mingjue hadn’t gone, hadn’t-

“Zongzhu?”

The battlefield had come to a standstill with corpses falling around them like puppets cut from their string, roaring, sobbing, he really couldn't bring himself to care, it was as if all of his energy had left him.

That night Wei Wuxian died and Nie Mingjue died with him

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

Marital surprises

This is anachronistic as hell but the thirst doesn't care. Suspension of disbelief or something. Got possessed by the horny spirit of LWJ to write this so enjoy, I guess.

Warnings: very suggestive

There are two things Lan Wangji notices when he walks into the jingshi that evening: one, Wei Ying is wearing one of his inner robes. And two, he's wearing fishnets.

Lan Wangji can feel his brain taking an abrupt stop at that.

Wei Ying is wearing fishnets. Black mesh stretching over the milky skin of his legs, faint bitemarks peeking through, thighs crossed over one another as he sits at the edge of the bed, poorly pretending to read a book. The light sheen of the red tinted gloss on his lips catches into the faint light, and his hair falls over his shoulders delicately, the ends very loosely curled in.

Candlelight dances, golden, all over the skin of his collarbones and chest, teasingly down his torso, stopping abruptly as the cloth hides the rest. Lan Wangji has a feeling the very loose tying of his robe was a deliberate choice.

He mentally checks over whether it's his birthday today. It's not, it's the middle of summer - but it definitely feels like it is.

Wei Ying decides to act like he's only just noticed Lan Wangji's very disrespectful staring, and lifts his eyes from his book.

"Hanguang-Jun."

He swallows hard. Wei Ying's voice is silky smooth, teasing and seductive and Lan Wangji loves it - but he always feels like he's going to die of horny causes whenever his husband gets like this.

He wouldn't regret it, no - what a hell of a way to die, honestly - but the blood rush down south always has him lightheaded, almost to the point of fainting.

"I was wondering when you'd come home. For a moment I thought you forgot about me."

Lan Wangji reaches to undo his forehead ribbon. "Never."

Wei Ying clicks his tongue, and, keeping that absolutely intoxicating eye contact that has Lan Wangji's veins swirl with arousal, slowly uncrosses his legs (Lan Wangji does not try to look underneath the robe that has enticingly ridden up Wei Ying's thighs, he does not!) and crosses them the other way, a displeased expression on his face.

"Highly unconvincing."

Lan Wangji reaches to undo his many layers of robes, and Wei Ying pretends to be thoroughly disinterested, picking his book up again. "What, you think I'm just going to give you what you want after a whole day of you leaving me alone and miserable?"

"Yes."

A scandalized gasp. "How audacious!"

"Why else would you dress this way?"

"For myself! If you're not here to appreciate me, I guess I'll have to do it myself." An evil little smirk. "Or perhaps find someone else."

"Wei Ying."

"What, you don't think anyone else would want me? I know of at least... hm, let's see..." he pretends to think, twirling a strand of hair around a finger, "... fifteen of your fellow sect members that might want to join me in bed at least once. And that's only the Lan. I remember of at least a couple of flustered Nie disciples at the last Discussion Conference, a few Jin too..."

Lan Wangji tries not to see red at the idea. He isn't sure he succeeds.

Meanwhile, Wei Ying has stretched over the bed like a cat, on his side, one hand supporting his head while the other lays over the contours of his waist.

"So, honestly, Hanguang-Jun, if I were you, I'd be more mindful of my actions. Who's to say this husband won't seek affection elsewhere?"

Lan Wangji almost laughs at the idea - as if Wei Ying would ever - but it does rile him up to think of someone else getting to touch what's his and to feel what only he gets to feel. He lets the feeling take over him, knows Wei Ying likes him angry and jealous when they're between the sheets, and so he imagines some faceless man trying to swoop Wei Ying away to better get into the scene. Hopefully he won't break the headboard this time again.

Meanwhile, Wei Ying's rolled over on his back, knees apart - so much for not wanting to give in. Lan Wangji wants to comment on that but words are a little bit distant from him the moment he finally manages to rid of his clothing and climb in his place between his husband's thighs.

"Didn't I say I'm not giving you anything?" Wei Ying attempts a glare.

"Lying is forbidden in the Cloud Recesses." comes the reply, and Lan Wangji lets his fingers trail over the fishnets, his index and middle finger catching onto the mesh.

"Don't just rip those, they're really expensive and hard to come by. Take them off properly."

Lan Wangji doesn't like to be bossed around, and he doesn't like Wei Ying sounding so bratty and arrogant either.

Or maybe he does.

Because he carefully reaches underneath Wei Ying's robe to find where the fishnets end, and does not miss the very teasing smile on his husband's face the moment he finds the lacy band of the stockings, stretched taught over his thigh.

Lan Wangji barely contains a whine. "Wei Ying."

A dark laugh. "Hm? Don't wanna take them off anymore?"

The response is lost in a desperate kiss.

(A large order of lingerie arrives at the gate of the Cloud Recesses and Lan Qiren promptly qi deviates when he opens the boxes for inspection.)