#omori critical

[woodchipp]

i fucking love good writing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[beevean]

Hey there, idk if you still care about Omori, but I just want to ask you, since you're very critical. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I really don't know what to think about the Mari's ghost scene where she says she wants Sunny to forgive himself. What are your thoughts on it?

Personally, I don't like the trope of a deceased person coming back to forgive someone, especially their killer. Part of the tragedy of death is that you don't get to know how someone would've felt and what they would've thought. You don't get that catharsis. Death is final. Here, it just feels like she was there so the main character could feel better and move on, and that's the only reason she spoke at all.

Since this story does decide to bring her back for a scene, I wish she'd had more mixed feelings towards her brother. Not wanting him to be miserable forever, but still feeling a bitterness that he robbed her of a chance to live at all (and in such a stupid way, too). A single, normal and nuanced conversation between the two. Make her more human, you know?

Hello!

I don't have a strong hatred for OMORI and I rarely talk about it (in fact, this ask seems like it was meant to be sent to @woodchipp lol), but I don't like it, no. I find it extremely poorly written in its themes of self-forgiveness, because it's heavily deep into Protagonist Centered Morality. To be blunt, I care more about the people Sunny has hurt than Sunny himself, who does nothing to endear himself to me and a lot to make me find him hard to like as a person.

Anyway, I'm going to contradict myself soon lmao, because while I'm largely apathetic towards the game as a whole I despise the scene of Mari's ghost, even more so with the confirmation that it was not Sunny's imagination.

It's not even just the cheapness of Mari descending from heaven, nullifying the whole point of her death creating a vacuum in people's hearts. It's how absolutely vile I find that Mari's entire purpose in the real world is to reassure Sunny that she's not mad that he killed her. In fact, she may be the to blame!

Sunny is the one who destroyed the violin out of spite, flushing down the toilet thousands of dollars worth between buying it (it was a gift! A heartfelt gift that everyone worked hard on to buy for his ungrateful ass!) and eight months of efforts, not just his but Mari's as well, who just wanted to play at a recital and accepted her little bro to play with her despite their immense gap in practice. Sunny is the one who did not express himself with words or by running away, but chose to use physical violence on Mari because he got angry that she didn't appreciate enough what he did for her. Why is she the one apologizing for making him hit her? There's a line between "kind understanding big sis" and "battered wife"!

This scene is disgusting. It would be simply cheap if Mari actually killed herself, and Sunny lived for years being eaten by guilt for something he didn't do, but felt like it was his responsibility, something like "maybe Mari killed herself because I was a lousy brat of a brother, had I been better to her she would still be here". In that case, Mari descending from heaven to reassure Sunny would be unrealistic and childish, but in a way touching, in that "I wish this could happen in real life" way. The story would be less gritty and realistic, but sure, sometimes people want wish fulfillment, and OMORI as a whole is big for wish fulfillment ("aww don't you wish you had great friends like Sunny has <3"). But in the story we have? Mari's feelings over being killed by her own brother don't matter. Mari's feelings over having her body desecrated don't matter. Mari's feelings over her friends and boyfriend believing she killed herself, and unfairly blaming themselves, don't matter. What matters is Sunny's poor little conscience. It's all about Sunny. Mari as a person with her hopes and dreams and dignity can go fuck herself.

Notice how apparently she never appeared to her boyfriend who is still crying over her, or Aubrey who was almost like a sister to her and became a delinquent out of grief and abandonment issues. Nah, who cares about those chumps? Sunny's feelings are of the utmost priority! Can't have him feeling guilty over being violent, taking his sister's life over nothing, and then going along with a plan meant to make him look innocent, can we? Can't prove the Evil Depression right :)

If the whole story is Sunny deciding he's tired of feeling bad about himself and finding the strength to forgive himself for his crimes, why does he need constant reassurance from others? Why does he need Mari to literally come back from the dead to pat pat him on the head and saying more or less that she deserved being hurt for daring to push him for something he wanted? Why does he equate the others forgiving him for his lies with them being "good friends"? Why does the world have to bend backwards to soothe him?

(I think the story forgot that in this scene, it's not Basil talking, it's Sunny shoving words into his mouth in his own head. Makes "Basil's" claim that he has been nothing but a burden all the better, does it)

Well. I said I don't hate OMORI lol. And I don't, really, certainly not to Wood's extent. But this scene and the ending where Sunny gets to run away from the mess he made and all the hearts he broke and we're supposed to be happy for him genuinely piss me off.

anyway I'd just cut the whole scene entirely (Mari needs flashbacks to flesh her out, not visions postmortem), and I'll leave you with this wonderful thread about how Steven Universe deals with the finality of death, and the ache of not being able to talk with a deceased loved one ever again:

[xx-panda-galaxy-xx]

I just tried to get into OMORI after seeing it around and I gotta say...the "truth" ending kinda ruined it for me.

Spoilers and themes of suicide coming up. Read at your own discretion.

Mari should have just killed herself. The game sets it's self up to be about grief and people dealing with the lost of a loved one, no matter how much the true end was forshadowed. The whole "it's about forgiving yourself even when you did something awful" this doesn't work for me because you don't even know what Sunny did until late into the game. You aren't aware he holds that guilt. The whole time you are lead to believe he was simply grieving his older sister, not wallowing in guilt for killing her on accident. It also just taints everything with Kel, Hero, and Aubrey as they don't know what Sunny and Basil did. Maybe that's the point, but idk. I am not really a fan. I feel like it would work better if they all were aware of the fact Sunny did it and him having to deal with the fall out of that.

I just think it's cliche too. I saw some on Reddit try and say that every psychological horror game has themes of grief and OMORI was different for changing the mold. Which was just... Has this person not played a psychological horror game past the five minute mark? They all have the "your the killer along" twist of some sort. It's so predictable that it's surprising when they DON'T go that route. It's not really unique in the slightest to be honest, even if handled well.

The plot of you exploring how the affects of Mari's death after her ending her own life had affected everyone is honestly a much more interesting and heartfelt plot to me. Especially as someone who has experienced grief and suicidal ideation. I was hoping to explore how someone can be blind to the love around them due to mental illness and how that decision can have unintentional consequences for the people they love, as they loved them in return. I would have loved a game about fighting your inner demons though escapism, (something I do) and getting better, as well as realizing how many people truly do love you. That you shouldn't give up for the sake of those people and yourself. Maybe even explore the fact that our past loved ones weren't perfect like we remembered them, but we still can love and cherish there memories.

I realize I am asking for a different game with that and that wasn't what the game was going for. But I can't help but feel they set it up for like that in the first place. No, having foreshadowing to the true ending doesn't change the fact that the game did deliberately set Mari's suicide as a red herring that it wanted you to believe. It's not about not having media literacy skills at that point, it was falling for what the game purposefully set up.

Btw, if you like the game, that's totally fine. It's just not my cup of tea, but I'm glad it's yours. I just wanted to talk about it.

[omorinintendoswitchedition]

Things I would change about Omori if I was in charge

I love Omori to death, one of the most life changing games ever to me. But Omocat definitely fumbled by blowing lots of the kickstarter money on merch, so here are some changes I would make if i was Omocat. (This is my personal opinion, so if you disagree, thats fine)

1. Longer game

Im the thousandth person to say this but Omocat fumbled HARD by only making this game have 3 days. Make it a whole week!!!!More content!!!!Please!!!!!

2. Spirit Mari’s design

She kinda looks like the stereotypical “ghost girl who was hanged”. She looks just like Sadako!!!

they look the same!!!!!!! Give her a more detailed/fancy looking dress so she stands out

3. Have Sunny look more messed up

Sunny looks very….presentable for a depressed teen boy who hasnt seen the sun in four years. like he still baths and stuff but he should look a little more messy. something more like this (credit goes to u/micheas08 on reddit)

4. More photo album photos

no way Basil has only taken like, a year’s worth of photos when he’s known his friends for (presumably) way longer than that. Have more photos!!! More pics from birthday parties, thanksgiving, halloween, fourth of july, or just have the gang messing around in the park or something. more photos!!!!

5.Develop character dynamics more

I know im always bitching about no Kel and Mari dynamic but Basil has a startling lack of dynamics with other characters aside from Sunny. What was his friendship with Mari like? What about his friendship with Kel and Hero? This could just get lumped into the “longer game” complaint but whatever

[secretomorisideblog]

Just putting this up here:

I do not like this game. I have many issues with it and will likely post about that. All of my critical posts will be tagged with #omori critical. I won't post anything outwardly mean in the main tag, but I may still post polite critique of the game. I understand this is a game well-liked by many people and a comfort game to many people so I completely understand if you want to block me. Please understand, I will block you if you get nasty with me for disliking the game. Hope you enjoy browsing my silly blog about this game that has invaded my brain

[omoris-journal]

So... I assume the whole, er, "Bossman Hero" thing didnt happen in this timeline, but do you know of him/that it could happen? If so, thoughts?

// OOC. You’ve stumped me, anon. I would love to answer this question, but I have no idea how. what makes this difficult is, Sunny dreamt about Headspace every night for about four years. We only know what happened on three of those nights. So there’s really no way to know for sure whether that’s happened in Headspace already. I personally don’t think it would’ve happened multiple times, but it could’ve. Sure, it’s exclusive to the hikikomori route (also only on switch console I think), but Sunny was living the hikikomori route for four years.

// I personally think four years was way too long of a timeframe considering how much of Headspace is explored in three days. I just can’t see those three days looping over and over. I just did the math. If Headspace reset every three days, there would be 487 loops. That just doesn’t make sense to me. And it’s implied that the previous “loops” were different, for example Basil being in the Cattail Fields Barn instead of Black Space. Now we have 487 unique loops. Yeah right. Either I’m forgetting something, or this is a giant plot hole. I vote the latter.

[eternalmomentss]

omori final duet but it's the wyvernwind brothers

[rewritingcanon]

my sister and i just yapped for almost three hours and we were just talking about how genuinely weird people in fandom are surrounding characters who have explicit mental illness. like they can never ever be normal. there are characters who are romanticised and glamourised for their mental illness (eren. wanda. joker. kaneki. nico. almost any danganronpa/ddlc character). characters who are consistently ridiculed for their mental illness either because it simply isn’t getting taken seriously (reiner) or because no one takes the character seriously (armin). and there are the characters that get blatantly outright DESPISED for it (basil, harry potter, korra, gale, also eren etc etc). like yes im seeing a correlation but its still so astounding how selective people are about where they draw the line with mental illness and what traits they can accept.

[somekindofsentience]

spiders, or how to fix half of omori's plot with one symbol

i think i can fix omori. well, some of it.

This will be an attempt to prove that a key symbol related to Mari is a spider/bug, and how making this more obvious to the player would have fixed half the narrative.

Mari is closely associated with bugs and spiders in several scenes, but I believe the photos in the real world and Headspace demonstrate this most explicitly.

This photo is one of few direct redraws from the real world in Headspace, and it identifies Mari as a character unafraid, even fascinated, by bugs, which is one of very few character traits she's actually given. This is repeated multiple times as we explore Headspace, where Mari comforts Sunny and Hero about their fear of spiders, takes the group bug-hunting in the real world, and previously put bugs in Hero's desk. It's notable that the reframing of this photo specifically puts a spider in Omori's hand, further linking the girl to bugs in his mind.

Within Headspace, spiders are shown to be far more present than the other two phobias present. We see it in Daddy Long Legs, the ominous nature of Pyrefly forest, the Spider Area, the references to the creatures from Hero, Mari and Basil, and much more - it's clear that the creators wanted this symbol to be present, but overwhelmed it with subtlety, making it impossible to actually understand, and leaving it in the dust in favour of following other threads. The narrative fails to distinguish the Arachnophobia boss, and loses its the relationship between Mari and spiders/bugs.

There are several benefits to making this metaphor more deliberate to the player, by enhancing the relationship through jumpscares, making it important to the Truth/Final Boss segments, or even just distinguishing Arachnophobia from the other bosses. I've decided to organise them into a list since there's so many.

Cohesive narrative interactions between the Phobias and the recital day: I'm always talking about how the juxtaposition between these two events is so subtle that people miss the point. Singling out the importance of Arachnophobia would highlight these two events and bring them to the forefront, making the Final Duet more cohesive.

The Phobia bosses become relevant: If the game is able to properly integrate Arachnophobia into the truth segment, this provides so much more purpose to the Phobia bosses, who often feel like just game mechanics to teach you how fighting against hallucinations functions.

Intriguing moral exploration: I think the idea of the subtlety of conveying Mari as a bug portrays her insignificance - Sunny was able to just kill her, as though she were just a spider to be swatted. It furthers an interesting understanding of morality in the text, talking about the prioritisation of life, leaving more of an impact on the audience. Are humans really as fickle as that?

Hero's character: Connecting Mari to a spider not only allows for more theory and AU creation, but actually mimics Hero's actions in the real world. Only two characters are afraid of spiders - and only those two characters have not visited Mari's grave since it was dug, which mirrors (but fails to highlight) Sunny and Hero's character arcs. In a similar way, Mari and Basil's love for bugs could also mirror some sort of decline.

The relevance of Daddy Long Legs and spider-related Black Space areas: Spiders are regularly referenced in Headspace and Black Space, with a whole room of Black Space surrounding them, but there's never any lucid reason why they're so prominent compared to the other phobias. Making a clear connection to the truth would clear up this confusion.

Basil's Something and Headspace Basil's dialogue: Basil's Something is deliberately abstract, but it is never defined further than its presentation. Not only would it properly link the Spider Area to the reality of the truth, but it would potentially connect Basil's Something to it, too.

Just plain easy to add: Much of Omori's story, characterisation and pacing is very difficult to improve without hours of effort. Being able to cohesively connect elements of the narrative with one symbol is much more realistic.

song i listened to while writing this:

this song is literally the reason i came to this realisation, the themes of environmental preservation were essential dskjhjdsgdjhsgjhkdg shout out to me rediscovering this after years and years

[beevean]

When I watched @woodchipp play the game, I could only think that the OST sounds terribly bland, with the one exception of World End's Valentine, which is a genuine bop, and By Your Side, which is very pleasant and fits Mari's image.

The rest of it? Not counting the "spoopy" tracks, it wants to be peppy and whimsical and Kirby-style, but it just doesn't stick in my head. It's a bunch of notes that resemble a melody, with some very irritating sounds. How is this meant to be a boss theme? Even Duet, the very climax of the story, doesn't really sound all that special, it's the most generic "emotional" piano/violin piece you can think of.

And then there are, of course, some of the most annoying sounds I've ever had the displeasure of listening to - Wood knows how much Lost At A Sleepover makes me want to puke, and I don't care about ~symbolism~, Just Leave Me Alone makes me bleed from the ears :P

Omori's soundtrack is one the most hit-or-miss ones I've heard in a while for a game.

On one end, there's a pretty good job at representing what vertigo from heights feels like, a flashy but still elegant sounding battle theme, and chill tracks that captures what I think being underwater feels like. But then on the opposite side, you have a track that wouldn't be as grating to listen to if it's instrument if it's chiptune instrument wasn't so high pitched, a messy clusterfuck that's one just for the sake of it, and pure audible torture.

[woodchipp]

the quartet of "wow your story hates your guts for no reason can I adopt you" rise up

[caffeiiine]

i love medias taht affect me to no end so much so that there’s no real way to get the pre-media ‘me’ back

[arachnopoda]

Having Aubrey going to church in the overworld and still being shunned and ostracized by the church attendees because of her home life and appearance over literal fighting and also ovet Omori and Kel’s disruption hurts me

[technicallydelightfulpenguin]

I will stop bringing more controversy related to CreathingShitmera, because, there is nothing more to say because he has shown himself to be who he really is.

[prodigal-explorer]

I disagree with the idea that basil is unforgivable because the entire point of Omori is forgiveness and grief.

To say that basil is irredeemable is to go against the theme of the game

homie...

hate to break it to you but actually the point of the game being forgiveness and grief doesn't mean that every character should be forgiven. everybody has different standards and morals and values when it comes to forgiveness. some people are able to forgive basil and others aren't, but the people who are able to forgive aren't inherently better or more "right" than the people who cannot. to say that the message of omori is "you should always forgive people no matter what they do to you" is brain-dead.

just because sunny and basil smiled at each other doesn't mean that all that damage was reversed, or that true forgiveness even happened.

the point of omori is not forgiving others.

it's forgiving YOURSELF.

that's why aubrey, kel, and hero's explicit reactions to the truth weren't shown in the game. because it's not supposed to be canon that they forgave sunny and basil. and the lesson is NOT that kel, aubrey, and hero SHOULD forgive sunny and basil.

it's easy for sunny and basil to forgive each other because they both royally fucked up each other and their friends.

what's not easy is kel, hero, and aubrey forgiving them because unlike sunny and basil, they had ZERO CHOICE in the matter when it came to the presentation of mari's death. they spent four years living a lie.

hero blamed himself, believing that he was a horrible boyfriend who caused mari's death by not being there for her and he was extremely depressed for years, which caused him to lose motivation for his number one favorite thing to do:

cook. as a result of hero's depression, kel was pushed aside and ignored by his parents, becoming something like a glass child to them, which led to him viewing himself as less important or worthy of love/attention than hero.

and don't even get me started on aubrey. the whole town turned against her, and nobody cared about her. not even her friends. the only person in the world who truly understood her was mari, and seeing her hung was the worst possible thing to happen to aubrey, a mentally ill little girl who already believed she was bad for everyone who cared about her.

if basil had JUST TOLD THE TRUTH. all of his friends' lives would have been infinitely better.

and i don't mean to like rag on basil without addressing sunny, but i never see sunny stans acting this idiotic and "holier-than-thou". now since you're so up in my business, i will explain myself more.

the biggest unforgiveable thing isn't even basil hanging mari. it's basil blatantly lying, and staying silent for four years, pretending to be innocent, painting himself as some victim, when really, the whole time, he was the reason why everything crumbled and destroyed itself.

it would be fucking stupid to walk out of playing that game saying, "well, aubrey, kel, and hero need to forgive basil for what he did because forgiveness is important."

that's easy for BASIL LOVERS to say because BASIL WAS NOT THE VICTIM IN THE SITUATION. HE WAS THE PERPETRATOR.

and furthermore, the game emphasizes self-forgiveness way more than forgiving others.

things only started to get better for basil and sunny when they started to forgive themselves. sunny's hallucinations were a manifestation of his shame and guilt. and shame and guilt are a result of being unable to forgive yourself. what the other characters did to support sunny was helpful, but it didn't solve the root of the problem. the only thing that really made something go away, the only thing that really brought color back to sunny's world was him letting go of that shame and guilt and allowing himself to keep going forward.

THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME IS THIS: you cannot control how others react/respond to your bad actions. you cannot expect forgiveness out of anyone, and sometimes, you SHOULDNT. but the one thing you can control when you fuck up is how you pick yourself up and dust yourself off. how YOU move on from what you did so that you can grow and become a better person in the future.

and to me, that is a way more relevant, impactful, and TRUE message than the stupid, idiotic, honestly super problematic idea that "we should forgive and forget when people hurt us because they feel guilty". that's not being a good person. that's being spineless and devoid of values. just because i personally have experiences, traumas, and values that make me unable to truly forgive basil doesn't make me a bad person or someone who failed to understand the game's message. so before you come up in my ask box and attempt to shame me and accuse me of not understanding the game, brush up on it yourself, buddy.

[ryhmus]

It just doesn't click for me...

In light of the new Omori Mod demo that came out, the next thing I'll say may be VERY controversial:

I'm not an Otomerson fan, their content just doesn't do it for me and it probably never will.

I tried, I really did try to like it, But I can't.

-I tried reading Endless Dreaming once, didn't even finish, just got to chapter 3. Then stopped and forgot about it entirely.

-Read Overwatered Garden, actually made it to the end...no feels, no tears, nothing It was just a sad story, that was it.

-I attempted to read Pursuit just because I wanted to understand what it was about. I ended up skipping over...just about everything until the three endings...

Need I say more? Never Again It ruined Hero for me in general.

-There was another one, but I forgot what it was called, just something about Sunny walking into the road.

-Well Kel kicking Sunny's door down was funny, it's just unfinished and that one was alright.

-At this rate, I'm not even bothering with Omorionette, I don't like marionettes. Hard pass.

-I saw a couple other ones, didn't look at them.

-Something about the art style feels...really off-putting. And don't get me wrong! It's very good art. Fanart is basically a god-given gift to the hard working writers and artists.

-And finally, all the stuff is really really REALLY long.

Again, so sorry if you came across this post. So many people throw well-deserved praise their way, a paragon of the Omori community. But I just don't see myself being able reading another of Otomerson's stories without just outright disliking it. It may be peak for everyone else, but it's not for me.

(I don't know a single person who doesn't like those stories aside from Pursuit.)

Please be civil about this. I can already hear the angry crowd outside going on about how I muted and block-