#ofmd s2 discussion

[bug-buzzz]

Talking abt Stedes bottle in s2 and how they're gonna read it:

OK so we know Stede wrote his little love letter and all but my question is, who's gonna read it? The only person we know who is confirmed to be able to read is Lucius but he's uh, out if commission at the moment. I'll come back to Lucius later. First of all, its almost certain that Ed cant read. Hes gone his whole life without it and when he signs the Act of Grace, he signs with an "X" - a symbol which means he is illiterate. Theres two possibilities that could mean he can read though, one is that he only signed the X so he wouldn't be bound to the document, or that Stede taught him how to read at some point after this. (Maybe in the military?) But for the sake of this post im assuming Ed cannot read. We don't know if Izzy can read, we see him holding a book but he may just be looking at the picture, but if he can, I don't see him realistically telling Ed about the note unless he lies about it or maybe tells him in hopes it will make him mad? It doesn't make sense for Izzy to read it for Ed. It is possible that Jim can read however. They grew up raised by a nun where reading the Bible was probably important, and we may not know their literacy because they didn't speak for a good chunk of time. We know Lucius can read, so if Lucius is a stowaway like some theories suspect, he could read it. Maybe Jim or Izzy is hiding Lucius and has him read it for them? Another possibility is that nobody on the ship can read and that they take the bottle to someone who can, maybe someone recognizes Stedes style or handwriting, maybe that is why we see Ed with Spanish Jackie (Jackie has signs in her bar so I assume she can read) but Ed seems to have recovered from being The Kraken in this scene so I'm not sure. And just for shits and giggles, maybe they take it to Stede for him to read it just for him to say "uh I wrote that." Anyways those are my ramblings abt the note in the bottle.

[thats-entirely-too-much-tuna]

these frames are 37 seconds apart. for eighteen months we’ve been reading and writing and theorizing about their eventual reconciliation, and stede bartholomew bonnet managed to speedrun it in THIRTY-SEVEN SECONDS.

[saltpepperbeard]

thinking about these 21 frames btw. if you even care.

[bizarrelittlemew]

this has to be a shout-out to the fandom for speculating about the sleeping arrangements aboard the Revenge for over a year

[ontologicalsynaesthesia]

It's so interesting to me that Izzy's suicide attempt wound heals very slowly, and leaves a big visible scar, in a show where characters regularly shrug off much worse injuries. You can even see it under his drag makeup:

Injuries in OFMD seem to have a physical impact on the character more or less in proportion to their psychological impact, regardless of how serious the wound should realistically be. In S1E4, Stede spends one episode injured after getting stabbed and hanged due to his hubris and incompetence, but then he's fine after hanging out with Ed for a while and getting some validation. In S1E6, Stede spends an entire night impaled on a sword, but he doesn't even seem to be in pain and suffers no lasting damage because it's not a psychological wound. And of course, in S2E3, Ed comes back to life more or less physically intact after realizing that Stede is there waiting for him, even though he should have been very, very dead after what the crew did to him.

But all of Izzy's injuries have a realistic impact on his body, in a way that isn't the case for any other character. I think some of that can be attributed to his Only Human In A Muppet Movie status, but it's also because of his uniquely fucked up relationship with Ed.

Ed causes all of Izzy's injuries, and I think they affect Izzy so permanently because of how deeply invested and dependent Izzy is on his relationship with Ed; his whole sense of self is bound up in it. Those wounds represent the toxicity of their relationship and how much it's damaged Izzy.

In contrast, when Izzy shoots Ed in the arm, the wound doesn't seem to stick around; we never see any evidence of it after that moment. Ed's actions have a far deeper impact on Izzy than Izzy's actions have on Ed, because there's always been an inequality in their relationship; Izzy cares about Ed much more than Ed cares about him, and that's the fundamental problem for Izzy.

Izzy post S2E4 has made a deliberate decision to move on from what happened between him and Ed, because it was so big and so awful that it's not the kind of thing he could either just forgive or ignore. And I think his Ed-induced suicide attempt was kind of the final straw; it's after that that he goes on deck and shoots Ed, which David Jenkins has described as Izzy "breaking up" with him. I don't think Izzy's stopped being in love with Ed, but he's stopped trying to influence his behavior as much, or even spend much time with him at all, and he's spending time with other characters instead.

But for all his change in behavior, every time he's on screen, we get a visual reminder of what happened, in both his leg and the scar on his face. Both are emphatically visible in the above scene, when Izzy and Stede are talking about Ed. It's a reminder of the impetus for Izzy's character arc this season, his relationship with Ed, and I think it's an indication that he hasn't fully healed psychologically, and probably never will. All he can do is keep moving forward.

[chuplayswithfire]

ngl i have always found it fascinating where people draw the line with violence. i've seen multiple people now object to the implied sexual violence of the 'human puppet' game Lucius talks about, because sexual violence is somehow uniquely dark and taboo... but the show has always dealt in comedy related to violence, even violence targeted at specific groups - antiblack slurs, references to the genocide of indigenous communities, and the presence of racism in general, and often mixed in with the comedy. those topics are just as serious as sexual violence, and just as dark. why wouldn't the show be willing to delve into the one, if they're willing to go to the others?

[izzysillyhandsy]

Rewatching OFMD (again) with a friend who's never even heard of the show is an eye-opening experience.

At S1 episode 4 she said something like: "I think Edward offloads all the heavy stuff onto Izzy - he wants to be liked and admired and Izzy has to keep everyone and everything in line. And everyone including Ed hates him for it? No wonder he seems exhausted."

She was really upset by how little respect Izzy got from everyone around him and "how badly the crew treated Izzy" in Ep 5.

We're at episode 6 now and she's horrified - "The uszh meant that Izzy would've had to kill all the people on this ship, didn't it? Probably even including Stede?"

Sometimes, with all the discourse about who's to blame and why is it Izzy, I forgot how tough Izzy's deal was as Blackbeard's first mate.

Of course he gladly put up with it for Ed and their special bond (and she also saw that immediately), but as soon as Stede waltzed in and it all fell apart poor Iz was in hell...

And yeah, of course it's more complex than that (I can't wait for us to get to the last 2 episodes and S2), and this is obviously not a remotely new or original take.

It's just so nice to see my friend discovering my favourite character (and character dynamics, namely Ed and Izzy) and immediately latching onto him/them ❤

[scarrletmoon]

i cant wait until i fully make sense so izzy thoughts below the cut

it's just SO REFRESHING to know that i -- and others in the same boat (ha) -- actually got izzy. got that he's the antagonist, that he's there to cling to the old guard as ed tries to escape it, that he's the representation of toxic masculinity and white supremacy and self-hating queer people

the thing that made him interesting was that he held so tightly onto one version of piracy (and masculinity) even as the world changed around him. he thought he knew what he wanted. he thought that if he could steer the ship -- steer blackbeard -- back to a bygone era, that would fix everything. izzy is every conservative who thinks that the world is falling apart bc we've lost sight of tradition. izzy is the person who doesn't realize that their hard-headedness is what's causing them misery. izzy is every person so afraid of change that they think their ultimate mission is to go back to what once was. izzy is doing this for YOUR own good

except the show doesn't think that way. at every turn, this show says "there's more than one way to be a man". it says "people can change if they want to". it says "there are people out there who want to forgive you, if you stop hardening your heart". it says "you've built this wall that you think is protecting you, but it's actually the reason why you feel unloveable"

izzy had to change in order to reach that point. he's so stubborn that he had to fall especially hard to even be receptive to it. i don't think he was always kind deep down -- i think he had to be broken down to almost nothing, until his old crutches literally broke beneath him, before he could accept that the world isn't a cruel, selfish place, or that he needs to be cruel and selfish to survive in it

and as he changes, he no longer functions as the antagonist. as ricky says, he got "boring". he's served his purpose. and unlike ed, that's not terrifying to him, because he knows it's true. serving his purpose doesn't mean he has nothing left to live for. it means that when he's finally on his deathbed, he's the old man who had a full life of regret and sadness but also love and joy, and he's finally happy. he finally likes who he is. and it's like his entire life was leading up to a moment where he realizes his true mission was to find love. he's found it, so unlike ed who had to shove himself off the ledge, he lets go by himself. he's not screaming and begging for death like he was in episode 2. he knows that he's leaving behind a man who doesn't need him, but who he loves, and who he knows loves him. and that love isn't possessive and cruel anymore.

i think there's a way the story could've ended without izzy dying, but i think it's very symbolic that in his last moments, he finally accepts who ed wants to be. he was the last one clinging to blackbeard, and he had to let that go for the story to continue. djenks has literally said izzy is the mentor who has to die in act 2 so the protagonist can actually grow into what they need to be.

and i know there are a lot of people who relate to izzy, and i know they don't want to hear it from me, and that's why they lash out at me. they think i've never done this introspection myself, that i've made excuses for my favourite characters (i read this as projection). and i'm hoping that some of them DO that introspection and realize what the show is ACTUALLY trying to tell them; not that you deserve to die for being who you are because fuck, by the time izzy dies, he's NOTHING like what he was. what the show is ACTUALLY trying to tell you is that even if your past is full of cruelty, even if you've hurt others, even if you feel like the world is against you, you can still change. you can become someone you actually like, and who others also like, without losing the parts of you that feel like YOU. YOU can realize all of that before you're on your deathbed finally apologizing for all the shit you did. i'm not saying that everyone else is better than you bc they might have reached that conclusion already. but i AM saying that maybe it might make you happier to be a little vulnerable and a little more accepting of things and people who you thought were against you

i imagine there's a trove of izzy fans who're going to leave the fandom now and do their own insular thing. and i'm not going to pretend that i'm going to miss the people -- regardless of which side of fandom they're on -- who have been shitty to me and others. but if even ONE person realizes that maybe they got izzy wrong? that's good. i'd like that

[leonsgotit]

OFMD S2 SPOILERS ‼️

in season 1, stede was constantly putting his feelings ahead of other people’s—he put his own feelings ahead of mary’s and his kids’ when he ran away in the middle of the night to become a pirate and when he left ed at the dock to return to his family (and yeah, stede thought he was protecting ed from him when he did it and he was in distress after having been kidnapped and then witnessing his childhood bully accidentally shoot himself in the head and i’m not discounting that at all!! but he also ran because he was afraid of how fast things were moving with ed), and he does it in other little ways all throughout the season but i think these two examples are the most important ones.

he puts his own feelings in front of other people’s up until mary tries to kill him and he realizes how he’s sort of messed everything up for her by returning, as well as realizing his feelings for ed. then, stede fakes his own death and gives up everything he has to return to ed.

now, in season 2, we see stede constantly putting the feelings of others before his own. he sets aside his own feelings about izzy to rescue him and the rest of his crew so they can take back the revenge. he doesn’t like izzy, but stede can tell that he’s important to frenchie and jim and archie and fang, and he knows izzy was important to ed, so he sets aside how he feels and saves izzy, too.

stede does everything in his power to protect ed when he wakes up (comes back from death), but when the crew speaks their mind, stede again sets aside his own feelings for them. they aren’t comfortable with ed being on the ship anymore, and even though stede has spent months and months searching for him, and even though stede cried and begged for ed to come back, he doesn’t try to fight the crew when they’ve made their decision. even though watching ed leave the revenge must break his heart.

stede tries to give ed the space he wants from him, he doesn’t push to make ed understand why he left the dock that night, and when ed gets angry upon learning that stede “left him for mary,” stede doesn’t try to explain what happened in full. he lets ed be angry, he respects ed’s need for space.

when he tries to tell ed he loves him, and ed pushes stede away, stede respects that boundary that ed has set. he tells him instead that he loves everything about him, being near him, and breathing the same air—and stede tells ed he doesn’t have to say it back.

when stede finds that “cursed” red suit that he loves so much, he puts himself first for a little while—but when it becomes apparent that the crew won’t be comfortable until the suit is gone, stede puts them first. he gets rid of the suit and validates their feelings about it. even though he really loved that suit.

and we love character development—we love to see stede growing as a person and learning to put other people’s needs and feelings before his own—but it’s like from zero to one hundred right now. stede is putting other’s (particularly ed’s) feelings before his own, because he feels guilty about what happened in season 1. and because, i believe, he’s still thinking about what chauncy badminton said to him—that he ruins beautiful things and that he ruined ed. so he’s over-correcting in order to fix what he thinks he is responsible for breaking.

it almost seems like stede doesn’t think his feelings are important anymore, that he has to completely ignore how he feels in order to make amends with everyone, especially ed.

he needs to find a healthy balance of acknowledging and validating his own feelings while also being able to put other people’s feelings in front of his own when appropriate!!

which is why i think he and ed need to actually TALK about what happened that night at the dock. they need to sit down and lay it all out, cards on the table, no stone left unturned.

stede needs to tell ed that chauncy kidnapped him from his bunk at gunpoint, he needs to tell ed exactly what chauncy said to him about how he ruins beautiful things, and how he brought blackbeard to ruin. likewise, ed needs to tell stede why he immediately thought stede had just ditched him—he needs to tell stede why he didn’t think to go looking for him that night and jumped to the conclusion that stede had changed his mind.

THEY NEED TO BE HONEST WITH EACH OTHER!!!

[plantsjustwannahavefun]

Ed stans trying to convince everyone it's problematic to think Izzy had better character development than Ed in S2 without making it about race challenge (impossible)

[spooksicl-e]

place your bets as to which character is actually the healthier one in s2.

[lizluzz]

I can't believe that after all the speculations about who should be the sugar baby: Ed or Stede, it's actually the Swede.

[soapbubbles511]

Not to be Stede-coded, but most of my thoughts after the sneak peek clip amount to "Sorry about your toes Iggy*, but sounds like Ed's having a hard time🥺" And "Sounds like Ed could also use a hug from Fang"

Like, we already knew all that but baby is deep in his "fuck it" spiral.

Ed was already burnt out and miserable and feeling trapped when we met him. And for a minute there after he met Stede, he had hope that things could be different. That he could retire. That he could have friends. That he could explore things he actually liked and let himself enjoy softer things. Then Stede left. And Izzy made it explicitly clear that he wouldn't tolerate Ed changing.

So he went fuck it. You want me to be Blackbeard? I'll be Blackbeard. The only retirement pirates get is death anyway. Captains rule through fear and intimidation. This is how piracy has always worked. Lots of maiming and assorted violence. Lots of drinking and lets throw in some drugs. Fuck it.

None of this is really new information, but it's making me sad for Ed. Extra sad when I think about him crying with his cake topper dolls when he's alone.

*not actually that sorry about his toes

[boatcats]

I did not find Izzy's death ableist in any sense. Before I saw the episode I did have a fear that they would portray him sacrificing himself for the crew because he was "too broken to go on" or some other ableist bullshit. But instead he dies at a point in his life where he's probably happier than he's ever been. That's what makes it so affecting! He has community, he has friends, he's valued and knows it. And all this happened after he lost his leg. His life was not only still worth living, it was more joyful. And he doesn't die sacrificing himself or due to his disability. He dies in a twist of fate during a dangerous situation.

I didn't read him telling Ed at the end that he wanted to go as suicidality. He was bleeding out already. Ed continuing to apply direct pressure to the wound might have kept him alive for a little longer but it was causing him significant pain. He preferred to go a little more quickly but much more comfortably in the arms of someone he'd finally made his peace with.

[saltpepperbeard]

Okay besties, ready to do some clown speculation with me? 🤡🏴‍☠️

I think Season 2 is going to come out in June. I know that’s way later than most of us are hoping, but it follows numerous timelines. Season One wrapped towards the end of September 2021, and premiered in March 2022. That’s about a six month gap between wrap and release.

Season 2 wrapped in mid-December. If it’s on a similar editing schedule as the previous season, ie about six months between wrap and release, then that roughly puts us in June.

Also, I feel like they’d want to shoot for June anyway, since June is ✨Pride✨. It’s also the anniversary of renewal, so it would check numerous boxes.

Which, if that’s the case, would mean we could expect a trailer sometime in May, and potentially a teaser in April. The first Season One teasers I can find date back to January, and the main trailer released in February. For even further comparison, HBO released the trailer for The Last of Us about a month before it aired.

So that’s a month-ish before release for the main trailer, and potentially two months-ish before release for the teaser.

TLDR, I think it just might be a bit too early to be getting anything right now, and that we shouldn’t give up hope on receiving previews!

…Hopefully 🤡🏳️‍🌈🏴‍☠️❤️

[garbomode]

HOLD ON i can't stop thinking about a take i keep seeing that's like "kraken ed wasn't really that bad, he only hurt izzy and izzy deserved it." because like, even putting aside the izzy apologist in me, it's still just objectively wrong. he pushed lucius off the ship! as far as anyone knew he killed him!! that seems kind of like hurting someone to me!!