#oenone

[greeknerdsstuff]

[evergreenalice]

I'm going to do something controversial

and defend Paris of Troy (well... sort of... he's still a dick, fuck that guy... but like... also in a very unenviable position)

reminder, there isn't really a mythological "canon", I do not intend to deliver to you the 100% canon accurate interpretation of the story of Paris, because there is no such thing.

Moving on, Paris' situation was kinda fucked, and I think there's some interesting things to be said

let us first explain who Paris is for those unaware, most of what I'm about to say is recounted in PseudoApollodorus' Bibliotheca

Paris was born to Hecuba and Priam, queen and king of the city of Troy

before he was born his mother had a nightmare that she would birth a torch that consumed the city in flame, and it was decided that this meant her son would bring the downfall of Troy

they wanted to kill him, but the guy they had kill him chickened out and chose the human option... of leaving him in the wilderness to die, as one does. You know what they say, if can't use Plan B, Plan C it is.

now luckily (or rather unluckily) he survived, and came to be raised as a shepherd. Interestingly according to Ovid, and I believe nobody else, Paris actually was a slave during this period of his life, though it makes sense, many abandoned children did get enslaved, to my knowledge, this was especially common in Rome, so this may be Ovid viewing this through a particularly Roman lens here.

According to PseudoApollodorus, Paris was pretty cool in his childhood, getting the name Alexandros, "defender of men" for being cool, and fighting off bandits and shit.

Eventually, through details we sadly lack to my knowledge, Paris fell in love with a nymph, Oenone. Sadly, there's not a ton attested about her, but what we do have seems to portray a genuinely positive relationship, though Oenone prophesied its eventually end due to the love he would develop for a foreign princess which would be his undoing.

moving on to the famous Judgement of Paris. Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena appear before the young Paris, and ask him which goddess is the most beautiful, and each offered him something in return for his answer being them. I want to note... there was no good answer here, I've seen people say "well [insert answer] would've been better." there wasn't a good answer, it would always have pissed off two of these goddesses, and also most certainly lead to Paris' and Troy's downfall, because that is what the Fates foretold, you can't just get out of a prophesy, any action would just lead you back to it.

In many ways, his choice of Aphrodite for the hand of Helen is actually a really genre-savvy answer from one perspective. He's promised power, glory, or love, and he chooses love. In many stories this would be the right answer, forsaking those other things for what really matters, love. Of course, this ends up being bad because... well first of he's cheating on Oenone, and, oopsies, Helen is married, and anyone who kidnaps her is going to be invaded by basically every Greek!

Thing is... did Paris know this? Did the shepherd/maybe slave know who tf Helen was? Realistically no. It's very possible in this situation to with no context, think, "Oh the last one seems like the least likely to blow up in my face."

as for the cheating thing, let me remind you... Aphrodite is the goddess of love, her retinue, the Erotes were generally believed to be able to overcome people with immense romantic feelings

In the Fall of Troy by Quintus Smyrnaeus, Paris tells Oenone as he dies, that it was not of his will that he abandoned her

now, the easiest way to take this is Paris is begging for his life, and is trying to present himself as a victim to evoke empathy to convince her to help him

however... considering the gods involved... yeah no it's possible he's being genuine here

In Ovid's Heroides, Oenone says this "Your tears fell as you left me – this, at least, deny not! We mingled our weeping, each a prey to grief; the elm is not so closely clasped by the clinging vine as was my neck by your embracing arms." which certainly strengthens the idea that Paris was heavily conflicted but moved by divine will

admittedly, I don't have much else to say, but idk, just some interesting things I don't see mentioned that often in reference to Paris (I also learned that Ovid called him a slave once? I did not know this, I learned this while looking for sources, oddly I've never seen anyone talk about this, I'm more interested in this now than anything else, like, I know it's just one line, but damn now I'm really curious what stories Ovid had access to that are today lost that made him say that.)

oh yeah also, you're welcome for siting my sources, because so many other sites I found talking about Paris that I read as a refresher, just didn't have sources, not even Wikipedia for a lot of that! I'm still mad about that so I made sure to mention my sources, if anything due to being petty and wanting to be better

[katerinaaqu]

hello! whats your opinion on Paris and his relationship with Oenone, his forgotten first wife? a lot of people here on Tumblr have mixed views on it, some hating on Oenone and others hating Paris (I am siding with Oenone here lol)

But what do you think?

That is a good one. I would guess depends on who tells the story but either way the fate of the characters are definitely tragic. Different authors present different events so here goes;

For once Apollodorous seems to be indicating a certain level of bitterness between them at least from Oenone's part, given how she warns him not to go and pick Helen since she heard the prophecy on the demise that would follow. Of course with this turn of events Oenone feels betrayed by Paris and thus leading to her refusal to heal him when he runs at her in Ida when he is shot by Philoctetes and his poisonous arrows. However it also seems that Oenone loved him deeply still for she regretted her refusal, took healing herbs and followed Paris to Troy (where he was carried to after her refusal to heal him) but it was too late. Upon Paris's death at Troy she hanged herself in desperation.

Now Photius who seems to be quoting the Augustean mythographer Conon, he brings a more...spicy story between them (no surprise there given how Conon does seem to be speaking on more spicy matters hehe). So basically according to that story Oenone and Paris had a son named Korythos who exceeded his father in beauty. Oenone seems to be bitter towards Paris for his new marriage to Helen and so she sends her own son to Helen not only for the plot against her but also to arouse jealousy to Paris (by the way Helen's reaction to it is not mentioned by Conon so it is unclear if she...liked Korythos or not). Paris got furious and ended up murdering his own son causing Oenone to be furious and curse him to die, inspired by the existing prophecy, for him to be wounded by the Greeks and ask for her help. But when that prophecy came into reality Oenone sent Paris away, refusing to help him and told him "to go to Helen instead". She regretted it later, went to Troy, found Paris she cried over him and then hanged herself with her belt.

Parthenius gives us more information in his work "Narrations of love" in which he presents the background of their relationship and it starts as an idealistic and romantic love story in which Paris meets Oenone while he is a Shephard and he marries her taking her to Ida with him where they share a happy life and Paris swore to his beloved that he would never leave her or desert her. Oenone who had the power to predict the future told him that indeed he loved her now but that it would change. She even tried to tell him on the fate that would befall him but every time Paris would stop her and not let her finish. That seems to be part of the root of Oenone's bitterness for after she goes back to her homeland and Paris arrives to her she says the same thing that Conon also mentioned that he should "go to Helen now for healing". However Parthenius speaks on her love more loudly. He mentions how she runs after the messenger that bore her message at the same time but apparently the messenger found Paris first and Paris lost all hope that he would find help from her. Once again the ending seems the same (although Parthenius doesn't specify the way she ends her life)

Quintus Smyrnaeus and Ovid have their own very long and emotional versions of the myth. I would definitely look for Quintus for he seems to be faithful to what we read on the Epic Cycle with his Posthpmerica but of course that is a matter of taste as well as you see the myth itself has many versions.

However all versions seem to agree on some factors;

Oenone and Paris seemed to deeply love each other

Oenone seems to know on the fate that befalls Paris beforehand and oftentimes Paris seems to know the outcome

Oenone acts bitter to Paris refusing to help him even if he is dying but immediately regretting it out of her love for him

Oenone gives an end to her own life after perceiving Paris dead (usually by hanging herself)

It is hard for me to "pick sides" given how complicated the situation is. On the aspect of fidelity of course one can say that Paris is in the wrong. He basically deserts his wife to marry Helen and he seems in his desperation to seek help from his first wife even after the way he treated her. However I find it interesting how Oenone in all versions is aware of the game of fate, she knows what will happen and she knows that people cannot escape their fate and yet she has such a human reaction to be jealous and bitter to Paris. Also her refusal to help him even if Paris begs for his life. She knows that Paris would be wounded by a Greek and that he would have no way to heal himself but by her own hand. The prophecy for most myths doesn't specify her role further of it and his death seems to be left to her hands only.

Of course one can say that fate being unclear is not uncharacteristic but I find interesting how her bitterness would go (quite understandably I would say) so far as to refuse a dying man to heal him. On that aspect she is "in the wrong" in one essence since she has the power of life and death over him but of course one can understand where she comes from and why she chose to do what she did.

Ultimately I think no side is blameless just for different things. Of course if one talks about "who started it" then yeah one can point fingers to Paris and speak about the way that he abandoned Oenone for Helen. On the other hand his fate was predetermined and as we know there is no escaping from fate and there is a thin line between fate and choice in Greek mythology so in one way how much was Paris's fault and how much was fate is hard to tell. If fate wasn't in the middle I am sure one could blame Paris much more but still speak about how Oenone did not just deny Paris shelter or food she denied him his own life by condemning him to death essentially (thus her own guilt after all) but since the predetermined fate is in the middle it becomes more blurry.

I hope that makes sense.

[yourlokalescholar]

Hero Cassandra AU doodles!

[ilions-end]

oh daaamn muse now sing to me the rage of the nymph oenone when her ex husband paris comes literally crawling back begging her to heal him of the poisoned arrow wound he's dying from:

"I wish I had the heart and strength of a savage beast, first to tear your flesh and then to lap your blood for the way you made me suffer with your willful folly. You wretch, where now are your fair-crowned goddess of love and invincible Zeus? Has he forgotten his son-in-law? Keep them as your saviors and remove yourself from my house, you utter ruin of gods and men alike."

🔥🔥

[dchan87]

I hope the Greek Mythology side of Tumblr finds this passable

[the-evil-clergyman]

Menelaus was bearing him in triumph towards the Achaean host., from Paris and Oenone for Children of the Dawn: Old Tales of Greece by Frank C. Pape (1908)

[hermesmoly]

Oenone as a character deserved her own Medea ending, she deserves better than to die for the coward who abandoned her

[dagondelrio]

Second poll for my book. I want to get a couple of points of views of multiple women on each side of the conflict.

[littlesparklight]

Because I got curious, here I am back with one of these lists! Obviously, based on surviving (and what I could remember and access) works. This time, Paris' death:

Little Iliad - on the battlefield, by Philoctetes. (Menelaos succeeds/attempts some sort of mutilation, corpse won back.)

Lykophron, Alexandra - Wounded, Oinone version. (Korythos exists, but apparently not killed by Paris.)

Konon, Narrations - Wounded, Oinone version (Korythos exists, killed by Paris.)

Parthenius, Love Romances (and to some degree also Hellanikos and Cephalon/Hegesianax) - Oinone version, wounded not killed on the battlefield. (In the first one(#4), no mention of Korythos and he seems to have no bearing on Oinone's actions; in the second(#34), he exists and Paris kills him, no connection made to Oinone's reaction to this.)

Bibliotheke, Epitome - too brief to tell anything other than that Philoctetes kills him. (Not Oinone version?)

Hyginus' Fabulae - Too brief to say, Philoctetes kills Paris. Presumably battlefield death and no Oinone (no mention of her in the whole of the Fabulae).

Quintus of Smyrna's Posthomerica - No battlefield death, wounded by Philoctetes; Oinone version. (No Korythos.) Philoctetes' first arrow barely scratches his wrist; the second hits "between flank and groin". One of these arrows, presumably the first, has the hydra gall poison. (Philoctetes just barely avoids Paris' arrow.)

Dictys Cretensis, John Malalas' Chronographia, Tzetzes' Iliaka (other late Byzantine works, based on Dictys) - Battlefield death; Philoctetes shoots Paris in the left hand, then the right eye (this somehow does not kill him), then both feet as he attempts to flee, and lastly hits him in some unspecified way that kills him. (Paris is made to miss Philoctetes entirely, no stated risk of a near-miss.)

Dares Phrygius, Anticlides (of Athens?) - Ajax kills Paris; battlefield death. (In Dares specifically, Paris kills Ajax, though Ajax dies only belatedly of his wound, as it's a question of Paris wounding Ajax, Ajax going after Paris and killing him, and upon returning to camp and the arrow being taken out, dies.)

Ptolemaeus Chennus - Menelaos kills Paris.

These are all arranged in vague chronological fashion. (I am only including Ptolemaus Chennus/Ptolemy Hephaistion for completeness' sake, but know this source is, ahem, not worth the same as the others.)

So what we've got is, as far as we can tell, Paris dying on the battlefield is the oldest version. But the Oinone version is clearly pretty old too - it must certainly be at least somewhat older than Lykophron's Alexandra. The earliest possible mention we have of Oinone killing herself (but this does not guarantee the Oinone version of Paris' death), is a fragment of Bacchylides. It's just also too fragmentary to be entirely sure it's about Oinone. The Oinone version can come with Korythos or not, and can, in the case of if he does exist, come with his explicit death, or not. Korythos is sometimes the son of Helen and Paris instead, which makes sense given that Korythos is clearly not necessary for Oinone's initial refusal to save Paris. If Oinone is mentioned at all, her killing herself for love of Paris is (unfortunately) unavoidable. Tzetzes' Iliaka, in his Posthomerica specifically, though he goes with Dictys' version of Paris' death, still mentions that Oinone kills herself. (He also counts up the various methods that she uses that authors have given her.)

There's something kind of interesting happening between Quintus and Dictys. Both of these specify how many arrows and where they hit. In Quintus, too, Paris misses only because Philoctetes is quick enough (he has to actively avoid the arrow) but this becomes a complete miss with no specified need for Philoctetes to dodge in Dictys. Plus, Philoctetes' dinky "scratched Paris on the wrist" first "hit" in Quintus becomes the unequivocal hit in the hand in Dictys. Any version based on Dictys basically repeat this bit in full and exactly as it happens in Dictys, too.

The absolute neatest little detail is the random change in Dares, where Paris and Ajax have a mutual double-kill. Tzetzes in his commentary on Lycophron is the one to mention that Anticlides, no further detail, says Paris kills Ajax. Wikipedia only gave me one Anticlides, who lived somewhere close past Alexander the Great, so despite the appearance in Dares it might be an older version than it first appears.

[smokey07]

heyo! hope you’re having a good day :>

I’m curious, what is your take on Cassandra and Oenone? They are two women in the Epic Cycle with very tragic endings, but both are still very cool in their own right!

Hiya! Thank you for the ask!!

I haven’t had time to read any original Greek Myth classics works other than the Iliad, so my knowledge is a bit limited on this matter. However I have somewhat a general knowledge of their tales and I will give my opinions based on that.

The women of Greek Myth are very interesting to me, as they are complex people and I love the way they embrace their femininity, both in good and bad ways.

Cassandra is just a tragic woman, I think it’s quite brave and understandable for her to deny Apollo. After that even when no one believed her, she still voiced out her prophecies. Her ending was just tragic, being passed from one man to another, being defiled and then being killed as a minor collateral damage. Idk if it’s better that a woman killed her and not a man.

I think she’s important to the overall story as an helpless observer, but unlike other women who know almost nothing, her tragedy is that she knows something, probably too much. This is also why I added her in that fanfic of Helen, hehe. She acted quite bitter and insane there but it’s under the eyes of Helen, another observer who will not be able to understand throughout.

She’s like those women who are very smart and knowledgeable, unfortunately too smart for her own good. No one could keep up with her intellect, and as a result, is seen as a mad woman.

Oenone is even more tragic, as she has basically nothing to do with the Trojan War or even the Priam family. She has no part in the fight. She simply and unfortunately married to Paris. And for her, there was no Paris the prince, covering in shining stuffs and nice things for, but a shepherd, a nobody. She knew him as he was (or did she?)

Her life with Paris was before he knew he was a prince, it’s a simple and honest life (Alexa plays Married life from Up), until bro realized he was a prince and picking another married woman is better (bro your wife’s right there)😭😭😭. She died still loving Paris and out of guilt and grief.

[death-before-ilion]

Life of Paris (Alexander)

1231 (age 0) Queen Hecabe of Troy dreams that she is about to give birth to a flaming torch that sets her city aflame. Aesacus, son of Priam by his previous wife, interprets the dream and declares the child will bring the downfall of Troy. On the day of Paris's birth, Aesacus further prophetizes that any royal child born that day would have to be killed to save Troy. Paris is born that same day before nightfall. Priam spares the child, unable to kill his own son. Herophile, priestess of Apollo, insists the child must be killed. Priam asks his chief herdsman Agelaus to kill Paris. Agelaus cannot kill the child and exposes him on Mount Ida, where he is suckled by a female bear. Five days later, Agelaus finds Paris alive and adopts him and tells Priam the child is dead.

1216 (age 15) Paris routs a gang of cattle thieves and returns the stolen animals to the herd, thus earning the nickname Alexander. Soon afterwards, Paris becomes the lover of Oenone, daughter of the river god Cebren and oread nymph of Mount Ida.

1214 (age 17) Paris and Oenone get married.

1212 (age 19) birth of their son Corythus on Mount Ida.

1211 (age 20) Paris starts organizing bull fights on Mount Ida, which he wins almost every time.

1209 (age 22) Paris offers a golden crown as a prize for his next bull fight. Ares chooses to participate, transforms into a bull and wins the contest. Paris gives the crown to Ares without hesitation, the honesty of which catches Zeus's attention and leads him to decide that Paris will award the golden apple he has been keeping since the marriage of Thetis and Peleus to the fairest goddess. Judgment of Paris: Paris attributes the golden apple to Aphrodite, earning Hera's and Athena's enmity, but winning the promise of Helen's love, most beautiful of all mortal women.

1208 (age 23) To atone for the supposed murder of his own son, Priam has been organizing expiatory games. Paris's favorite bull is taken to be the prize of this year's games. He decides to participate to win it back. Paris wins all the games, which angers his brother Deiphobus, but his sister Cassandra recognizes him with her seeress powers and Priam welcomes him back to Troy.

1207 (age 24) Paris hires Phereclus to build a fleet, as advised by Aphrodite.

1204 (age 27) Paris and his cousin Aeneas and a contingent of warriors leave for Greece, pretexting to visit and enquire about Hesione, Priam's elder sister. They travel through Greece, and when they reach Sparta, they are welcomed and entertained by Menelaus, husband of Helen who is immediately smitten with love for Paris, as promised by Aphrodite. Menelaus must leave for Crete, for the funeral of king Catreus, his grandfather. As soon as he is gone, Helen embarks with Paris for Troy. However, to avoid being pursued, they detour south of Crete, to Cyprus and Phoenicia. Paris and Aeneas sack Sidon.

1203 (age 28) The fleet reaches Troy. Paris and Helen marry.

1202 (age 29) Birth of Bunomus, their son.

1194 (age 37) Birth of Aganus, their second son.

1193 (age 38) The siege of Troy begins.

1192 (age 39) Birth of Idaeus, their third son.

1191 (age 40) Oenone sends their now adult son Corythus to Paris to participate in the war against the Greeks. He is welcomed by Helen and is stricken by her beauty. Paris does not recognize his son and kills him out of jealousy before he is informed of his identity.

1188 (age 43) Troy is struck by a minor earthquake, but the three sons of Paris and Helen are killed by the collapsing roof of their house.

1184 (age 47) Paris duels Menelaus and is saved by Aphrodite. He wounds Diomedes and later kills Achilles with an arrow guided by Apollo. Philoctetes wounds Paris with an arrow bearing the poison of the Lernaean Hydra. Helen rushes to Mount Ida to beg for Oenone's healing skills. She refuses and Paris soon dies. Oenone commits suicide.

[dreamconsumer]

Phaedra and Oenone, illustration from Act I Scene 3 of 'Phedre' by Jean Racine engraved by Raphael Urbain Massard.

[sarafangirlart]

why did Oenone kill her self over Paris is she stupid

Most ancient writers didn’t know how to write female characters that don’t center their entire world over a man (in this case a man that doesn’t gaf) much like modern writers actually.

[0ghostwatcher]

They way Paris had a wife and child and still choose Aphrodite gift will never make me more mad😃

[bitchingabout]

and oenone watched as her faithless husband destroyed troy, doomed his family, signed and sealed the fate of his city, and though his abandonment of her still coursed through her veins, she smiled, for the goddesses would not look kindly on paris.