#not that intersex people can't be women

[eliounora]

while it is important to raise awareness about intersex people I think it's irresponsible to speculate about one person possibly being intersex especially when the issue at hand is about whether or not the said person who identifies as a woman is a woman. surely there must be an easier way to accept masculine women

[tinystepsforward]

ngl it makes me want to die a little bit that it's so often trans people who feel that sex is mutable but oppression is always-forever based on asab in ways that allow them to demand that information from other trans people. like it feels fucking bad. it feels bad when it's people holding up someone who posts a lot of selfies as transition goals to a degree they have to clarify what they have or haven't done or what "direction" they're going in, it feels worse when people are out there like "caster semenya is not tma" or whatever the fuck. i am, as always, not a trans woman, but here's a sentiment echoed by many of the trans women around me who log the fuck off, quoted directly from one: "people who draw a clear line where they say that semenya or khelif are tme and then call me tma are just calling me male at this point".

like i get it. i really do. we seek community and shared experiences, and we feel betrayed when people have less in common with us than we thought they did. [*more on this later.] but that's not those people's faults and my god in the case i'm seeing play out on twitter rn this poor person did absolutely nothing to intentionally mislead people, just posted pictures of their actual kid self. who looks a lot like i did, because shockingly enough "we can always tell" doesn't fucking work for trans people either!

on the one hand i move in intersex circles which are unapologetically welcoming in cis "dyadic" people with pcos, because it serves nobody to draw a clear line where mutilation or genetics or some ineffable childhood suffering are what make somebody intersex, especially when most of us (esp in places like nz) have never been karyotyped and are being treated for symptoms without a pinned-down cause anyway. the more of us there are the stronger we are, the more pressure we can exert on a medical profession which doesn't like to consider how common outliers are, how uneasy sex is at all. and then on the other hand there's dyadic trans people on the internet who've yelled me out of spaces because a couple of traumatised incarcerated trans women i worked with as a prison abolitionist assumed i was also a trans woman and i didn't immediately tell them my entire csa-involved history of being sexed in varying ways as an infant and child and/or exactly how big my phallus was at birth or where in my junk config my urethra lives so they could decide i was tme or whatever.

returning to the * for a related but not identical thought: i think presuming shared experiences leads to some fucked shit in general! "oh we all had a radfem phase" or "oh we all were channers" no we fucking weren't and it's particularly obnoxious when me & mine are trying to build trans community locally to organise and resist the growing wave of far-right backlash against our existence, and there's just white people in there on a spectrum from "straight up being antisemitic and trying to get the n-word pass" through "handwringing about how they need to make space for people who aren't politically correct" to "handwringing about how brown people are right to be mad at them but doing shit fuckall". and then the other fucking brown people in the space are on some identity politics shit where they're like "trans joy inherently excludes those of us who could get deported" or "big city white queers are killing us by being visible instead of going stealth bc it stirs up the discourse" or whatever the fuck i've heard pulled out this year. there's a bunch of reasons i primarily organise outside of trans spaces and that's one of them. i've never felt more alone in spaces where people claim we're all the same than being left as the brownest moderator or organiser in a space full of people to whom "this is a safe trans space" apparently means they get to abdicate all other responsibilities not to lapse into presumed shared patterns that are fucking racist or otherwise alienating. i've never felt more alone than surrounded by exclusively trans people who sort people into boxes and assume everyone in those boxes has the transition goals they have. like i was on cypro until it disagreed with me to the point of endocrine crisis and now i'm on t and at both those points people were so fucking presumptive or entitled to my reasons or journey or personal relationship w my body

literally just submitted on (and was invited to consult on) the nz law commission's review of the human rights act and like. it's straight up fucked how many nz trans people fully do not comprehend that any "sex assigned at birth" type definitions fundamentally exclude migrants who have no way of proving it and many intersex people who happen to have been reassigned later or many times or never assigned at all as a baby. we can't make law with this shit and that's why we have to have symmetrical protections for all genders/sexes/expressions/presentations, bc naming and defining a protected class here often leaves the people who already are left out from those shared experiences of marginalisation out in the cold when they face violence

[andiv3r]

Sometimes I see something that reminds me that other people are using this website in a drastically different way from how I am

[uncanny-tranny]

Comparing oppression can sometimes give you insight as to what other groups of people go through. It teaches you what you have in common with people seemingly different than you are, and teaches you how you are different and how you can ally yourself better with other peoples.

However, if your goal is to prove you suffer the most between you and another person, you'll likely find that there is no conversation, just an endless barrage of back-and-forth to prove which of you deserves to be listened to.

The reality is that you don't have to be in the most pain in order to be listened to. So often, we are inundated with this idea that the person suffering the most is the only one who ought to be listened to, and it sends the message of "holy shit, I guess I don't matter. I guess I deserve to suffer if others are going through worse," and that's just unreasonable and unfair. Who has it worse is entirely contextual and changing, and sometimes it is subjective - as in, something that is earth-breaking for you is an average tuesday evening for the guy next to you.

Kill the cop in your head that says your voice will only matter if you prove yourself. Listen to other marginalized people and know it isn't a competition to see who can prove themselves most worthy of tine and energy. Our resources can (and should) be multifaceted and able to help a variety of peoples.

[wasabikitcat]

Has anyone in this Olympics women's boxing argument ever stopped and thought about whether it would make any sense for women to be more susceptible to being injured in boxing than men? Like sure, it's a fairly common assumption that men are physically stronger than women, and therefore a man would have an advantage at boxing because he can punch harder... But how would that make you more resilient to being punched in the nose? Like I would think the assumed advantage would be that women can't hit as hard and therefore would require more effort to take someone down, but what everyone is arguing over is a woman having her nose broken from a punch to the face, when a man's nose would be just as broken from the same punch. Women don't have like, daintier and weaker facial bones or something. Being punched in the face "by a man" when you're a woman is literally no different than being punched in the face by the same person as a man. If we are to assume that men (note: the person being debated about here isn't a man or even a trans woman, she is cisgender, but I digress) are so Herculean that their punches are just too dangerous for women, then men's boxing should be banned outright because it's just too dangerous for men to be punching each other with that strength when a punch to the face is exactly the same for a man as it is to a woman.

[bijoumikhawal]

this is important to note but I have had liscenced meatspace therapists that were this racist

This is... NOT gonna end the way you think

[lastoneout]

*grabbing young queer people by the shoulders* listen to me. radical feminism is inherently transphobic. you cannot rehabilitate it or reclaim it or make it trans inclusive, I don't care what the people on twitter who claim to be authorities on queerness say. the foundation of radical feminism is nothing but bio and gender essentialism and biphobia and aphobia and anti-kink rhetoric and intersexism and yes, misogyny. it does not offer a future, not for bi people, aroace people, sex workers, not for kinksters, or intersex people, cis women, or trans people regardless of gender and you should care about those people. it will never result in queer liberation because it is an ideology of exclusion and hatred. you gain nothing by buying into the idea that half the population is evil by birth or by transition. you gain nothing by acting like women are perpetual victims who can't think for themselves and are tainted by their association with men. being a man or being attracted to them is not a sin. if we truly want to stand a chance of dismantling the patriarchy we actually NEED men on our side especially marginalized men. they are our allies.

the problem with terfs is not just transphobia, it never was, the radical feminism is also so unbelievably harmful. you cannot save it and it will not save you, stop drawing lines between queer people and join hands with them instead. remove people who are actually harmful, not innocent people who happen to have the wrong sexuality or gender or job. we get there together or we don't get there at all. we need each other now more than ever. do not listen to those who seek to divide us even if they are queer. we all deserve so much better than the hell radical feminism pretends is a liberated future.

I do not blame anyone who fell prey to this rhetoric, I know it feels good to have a common enemy and lash out at those you think are siding with them however they do it, but men, especially marginalized men, are not your enemies. and it's never too late to realize that and change for the better.

[yiddishfisting]

"we need intersex inclusive language because think about the cis intersex people" no

[rebellum]

Me: hey there's a big issue with anti-masculinity in queer and leftist spaces. Trans fems, if they don't constantly perform hyperfemininity and aren't little and skinny and white, are demonised and people call them pedophiles because there's such a dislike of any association with masculinity. Trans mascs are told they're "whiny MRAs" when they talk about the oppression they face. Masculine intersex people are erased or told they should just be more feminine if they don't want people to be scared of them for looking masculine. People act like marginalised men (queer men, trans men, men of colour, etc, intersex men) aren't actually marginalised because they're men. The vocal "all men literally ARE evil" rhetoric isn't actually venting when it's constant and public, it's harming marginalised men and is a contributing factor to teens and young cis (often but not always het) going down the alt-right pipeline, and is directly linked with trans people not transitioning or being too scared to transition because by becoming a man they are becoming "the enemy". There's the idea of "women +" or "women and nonbinary," which positions all nonbinary people as 'basically women' or affiliated with femininity, and in practice ends up pushing away anyone who appears or identifies with masculinity, regardless of their gender identity. Butches are treated as if they're just sex toys, or that they're scary and dangerous because of their masc presentation. This is actually a huge, pervasive issue that is further hurting already marginalised people AND is pushing potential allies away because it's making them feel bad for something they can't control (being men.)

Dumbasses: lol op thinks cis men are oppressed by minorities

[busket]

I notice sometimes in queer and feminist spaces the idea of "this group is generally given more leniency and privileges in wider society; it's okay for us to be critical or even a little nasty to them because anywhere else they'd be praised". and that's understandable, i think. when you have real issues with men and how men act, it's ok to express that and to mock mens behavior. cis men who are generally praised and celebrated in society should be able to take some mean jokes or criticisms and accept they're not always going to be lauded.

but since queer and feminist spaces are generally more accepting of trans people and the wider society is not, this is also projected on to trans men. "trans men are men" was an affirming statement to our validity, but that was interpreted as "since trans men are men, and men are celebrated by society, I get to be a little nasty to them because the rest of society worships men. they can take it."

but the rest of society doesn't have that same level of trans acceptance. they don't see trans men as men, they see trans men as mentally ill, broken, mutilated women. so it's absolutely aggravating when we turn to queer and feminist spaces for solidarity, we face the same reactive nastiness cis men get and are told "come on, trans men are men. you are celebrated in society. you can take it." and when we look at the rest of society there's no celebration. there's only more nastiness and cruelty. so how can we "take it" when we have no community that accepts us and treats us without mockery? we don't have the shelter of acceptance that cis men have in the status quo, and sometimes we can't find a small umbrella of acceptance in queer communities either.

to be honest, I think a lot of people view trans men as a safe punching bag to vent their frustrations with men. you can mistreat a trans man and he's probably not going to fight you back since he's already so beat down. you can feel like you put a man in his place, you can feel like you're resisting the patriarchy. but all you did was act cruel to a marginalized person. and you know if you treated a cis man like that you might be putting yourself in danger, cos he might not take it lying down and he might not care as much about your wellbeing!

trans men are men, but trans men are not cis men. cis men are lauded and celebrated in society as long as they conform to the gender roles that were placed on them at birth. and this privilege is extremely conditional and not equally spread between men of different sexualities, races, ethnicities, ability, age, etc; trans men and intersex men are thrown to the side completely. I understand needing to vent about men. trans men do it too. but a persistent attitude of resentment and cruelty towards all men, including trans men, is not activism. all you do is push marginalized men out of the only communities they belong

[qweerhet]

"no children are being forced to take hrt or have surgeries that change the appearance of their genitals" intersex children are, actually

"everyone was assigned a gender at birth" there are intersex people who were not assigned a gender at birth

"trans women are amab trans people and trans men are afab trans people" there are intersex people who were assigned male at birth and later transitioned medically and socially to male, and intersex people who were assigned female at birth and later transitioned medically and socially to female

"assigned gender at birth is a 1:1 predictor of tma vs tme experience" there are intersex people who were assigned female at birth and experienced violence for being a woman with a penis + testes + secondary sex characteristics like facial hair + having a testosterone-dominant hormone profile, and had to transition medically and socially to be socially and medically recognized as women as adults

"bodies born with sex variations are medically nonbinary" no, they are intersex, and intersex people can be a binary gender if they want to be

"nonbinary people who want non-cisnormative sex variations are mentally ill/diseased for wanting a disordered body" no, bodies with sex variations are not disordered, and it harms intersex people for them to be seen as disordered regardless of if the body in question was born that way or created through surgery

"cis women don't experience transphobic body policing/will never understand how it feels to have your womanhood constantly in question and subject to violence over things you can't change" intersexism overlaps heavily with transphobia and an intersex woman can both identify as cis and have a penis, testes, be testosterone-dominant, etc, and have visible signs of those traits. an intersex woman can also have been amab or be currently legally designated as male by the government and still identify as cis.

stop saying intersexist shit in your trans discourse thanks

[genderqueerdykes]

we're in this catch-22 of "it's totally okay to mock afab trans people because they're cringy and women-lite" and "we have to protect afab trans people because they are women-lite and soft and pathetic and defenseless." and it makes me want to scream my fucking head off i'm not even afab and i'm tired of the absolute clownery and torture folks put these people through. enough is enough, if folks aren't bending over backwards to find reasons to exclude amab queer people, they're finding every reason under the sun to mock, belittle, hate and infantilize afab trans people because of their refusal to let go of misogyny.

y'all treat ALL parts of the sex binary like shit and enough is enough you can't sit here and hate someone for their agab if you're in the queer community. regardless of your reason. there IS no good reason to hate or mock someone because of their agab. let go of the binary for the love of god and stop giving afab trans people shit because you can't let go of your misogyny and you think it's a-okay to bully them because they're women in your eyes. like cut it the fuck out this shit is transparent as day i'm sick of it.

if i as an intersex person have to step in to defend agabs that aren't even mine, y'all are failing each other tremendously. do better.

[spacevampires]

friendly reminder that intersex trans people exist and they arent your fucking business and telling us "thats impossible" when we share an experience is entirely unhelpful

im a trans woman with enough of a uterus/ovary to menstruate occasionally. "trans women cant have periods" is not only invalidating to perisex trans women/trans women who can't menstruate but still have a hormonal cycle that causes some symptoms of periods (cramps, mood swings/shifts, etc.) but also invalidates intersex trans women who do have the ability to menstruate

and i shouldnt have to hide the fact i do menstruate to be seen as "valid." i shouldnt have to hide that i used medical bias against intersex people to get my transition surgeries covered and done at a younger age. i shouldnt have to hide the fact i had to go on testosterone because my body only produces miniscule amounts of both hormones but i have severe reactions to estrogen/progesterone that fucks with my body more than testosterone while still needing some sort of sex hormone to be able to live my life normally. yes, this has given me privilege in some areas. yes, it is different from the experience of a perisex trans woman. no, this does not make me transmasc or not actually trans. i do not feel comfortable identifying as transmasc because i am not a man, and even if i was, i presented as primarily male most of my life and was percieved as such. perhaps if i'd had my "female" sex characteristics removed instead, i would identify differently, but my reality is that i live my life as a trans woman, even if i am currently indistinguishable from a cis woman and many people percieve me as such.

[lilyveselka]

How To Shut Up A Woman In Three Steps: The Transmisogynist's Guide

I - Her Tone

This is, by far, the easiest tool to wield effectively against a trans woman. If she is short in her responses, then you can accuse her of harassment and unwarranted anger; if she outright blocks you then you can simply claim that she only cares about her small-minded internet echo chamber; and if she engages with you at any length then you can quite easily nitpick her language and tone until she is thoroughly discredited.

Even better, she will most certainly become annoyed with you - in this scenario, all you have to do is argue that she is aggressive, hysterical, and quite likely a danger to society, and you will be believed by a great many people. This is, of course, because the trans woman's natural position is as a fundamental danger to society. Therefore, it takes very little convincing for an onlooker to come to that selfsame conclusion with some prompting. They may not even be aware that they are falling victim to their own inherent transmisogynistic bias, which is why this approach is quite beautiful in its simplicity! For those who don't immediately believe you, you can easily dismiss them as brainwashed idiots, syncophants, or both.

To drive your point home, call her a terf, a radfem, or a baeddel. If she has ever, in anger, spoken poorly of cis queers, or even better of transmascs, then this will become trivial to argue. Tell her that she is the problem, that she is contributing to community infighting, and that she should really be trying harder to work on this whole "trans unity" thing. Blame all oppression on her. For bonus points, when you tell her that she is dividing the community, you can also throw in the idea that should be making out with you instead of arguing. (This is, of course, because women primarily belong as sex objects to men, and if she would stop having so many opinions then perhaps she would understand this better.)

II - Her Privilege

This is an expanded version of the former tactic, because it requires a certain level of delicacy in the wording you use. However, people react quite strongly to the language of privilege, irrespective of whether that language reflects a material reality, and therefore this is a fantastic way to make a woman stop whining.

I would advise you to check if the woman is white; if she is, then you can easily accuse her of weaponizing her whiteness. (N.B. If she has not stated her race publicly, or if you can't be bothered to check, then this accusation will still work - if she is actually a woman of color, you may very easily claim that you were making a statement about white trans women in general. Further, it is not necessary for you yourself to be a person of color; as long as you position her as uniquely privileged in her whiteness, your own whiteness will remain irrelevant.)

In a similar bent, it is always quite possible for you to dismiss her theory as being "white." Always posit that she is championing a sort of wealthy white woman's privilege, always claim that transfeminism is at its core non-intersectional, and always claim that transfeminist theory in its entirety was created by the white woman - in this way, you may mark her as a privileged white bitch regardless of her race, national origin, or identity. (Under no circumstances should you mention or acknowledge the existence of trans women of color, as this immediately disarms your rhetorical weapon. In fact, if she brings up trans women of color, it is most necessary for you to claim that she is co-opting their experiences.) If you can imply that she is a racist while doing so, then you will be even more successful.

If this fails, then there are other similar cudgels you can implement to great effect: perhaps claims of intersexism, exorsexism, or sex-based discrimination. Call her a "perisex trans woman," a "binary trans woman," an "amab trans person." Say that she is speaking over the real victims; if you must combine multiple (or all!) of these terms at once in order to make her seem like a uniquely privileged party, then do so without hesitation. If she has ever had a bad opinion, or an opinion that you might frame without context as being a bad opinion, then simply publicize that. However, in the absence of such, see rulebook as follows: if she talks only of trans women in general, then you must bring up transmasculine nonbinary people; if she talks of transfeminine nonbinary people, then you must bring up intersex people; if she talks of trans people as a whole then you ought to circle right back around to claiming that she could never understand what trans men have gone through. Never concede that, say, an intersex trans woman exists, because that will inevitably lose you rhetorical ground.

Insinuate that she is herself the oppressor, that she is regressive and small-minded. In fact, if you really wish to run circles around her, then you can easily accuse her of upholding her own oppression by arguing that she is upholding a gender binary, enforcing sex-based division in the community with her language. If she describes herself as a victim of transmisogyny, then tell her that all people can be victims of transmisogyny; if she tells you that this is inaccurate, then simply argue that she is speaking over the real victim (you).

In fact, if you misgender yourself and claim to be oppressed due to your assigned birth sex, then she will have no recourse to fight back - because we all know that she is really a male, and therefore is silencing you poor natal women, who are the true arbiters of female oppression, and the real experts on misogyny. If you intend to utilize this specific tack, then I would personally suggest you use "they/them" to refer to her, because delegitimizing her womanhood is a key component to this argument.

III - Unpersoning

If both of the above techniques have failed (unlikely!) then you may now proceed to that age-old transmisogynistic technique: weaponizing her fetishes. This can be a bit more difficult to bring up naturally, but it is a last resort that can produce some fantastic results. Ask yourself the following: Has she posted about CNC? Has she talked about siscon roleplay? Has she ever engaged in a little/caretaker dynamic? Has she ever made a forcefem joke? In order, your claim against her should be as follows: she loves rape, she loves incestuous abuse, she loves to fuck children, and she personally wants to nonconsensually detransition every transmasc because of her violent perversion. It should be quite simple to get people to turn on her. If she has ever interacted with a user who has posted any of these things, simply consider her tainted by association and dismiss her in the same manner.

This is, as previously discussed, due to her natural position as a degenerate danger to society; simply reinforce that concept wherever possible, until she is driven away from her online circle entirely. Do not outright use the word "autogynephilia," but you can certainly suggest the actual tenets of the idea to wonderful effect.

This can be implemented via statements such as, "oh, so now the incest lover is going to tell me about the oppression i experience;" however, if you would care to be more subtle, then you can set up a slow-burn whisper network to turn her friends and acquaintances against her, or dedicate years to harassing her in her comments section whenever possible.

If she has pushed you far enough that this technique has become necessary, then it is clear that she must be a hostile force in the community who ought to be removed by any means. Therefore, it falls to you to try to get her to cut herself off from everyone who might support her - this will efficiently shut her up. If you can get her to kill herself, then it will silence her permanently (and cause you to win the argument, by extension)!

Just remember: what you are doing is noble and correct, because any woman who claims that a man has power over her is one who is better off dead.

[yourgamemasterthewhiterabbit]

4-5 I have been having a lot of thoughts about the franchise lately, tbh, mainly in line with

"Where is the leftist activism in their universe?"

"Where are the disability advocates talking about how people are dehumanizing people with mutations, or how all adaptation is s double sided coin or how being socially disabled is still a disability"

"Where is the Autistic mutant alliance?"

"Where is the Queers for mutant rights advocacy groups?"

"Where's the intersex mutant alliance groups?"

"Where are the people pointing out that the x gene is by far not the only human mutation that causes both symptoms and sometimes different abilities, and that maybe these are not issues we can separate?"

"Where are the people trying to point out that framing it as mutant vs human instead of human vs human is like when we let them start calling anti-fascism 'antifa' to sound scary?"

We always see either mobs coded as republican and American Christians of the worst sort or hate groups to the far right, but does leftism not exist in their universe, we hardly ever see a non mutant individual speak out publicly in their favour at all. I know the left is full of infighting and mutants would make terf's heads explode, but like... Where is the intersectionality?

And Magneto... My biggest gripe with him is how he never mentions the disabled or queer in the same breath as mutants, and it comes across like mutations with powers are the only ones he cares about... It comes off like eugenics which I feel like super would not realistically be his bit.

I have so many... Notes. Especially about a modern 2024 take on the x-men...

So like yeah I am invested in the franchise to a fairly high degree, but a lot of it is demanding they get better cooks. I am attached to these characters now and I want to see them written better.

You were never going to be palatable to the political right, unless they lack all media literacy at all. Stop tiptoeing.

Before kicking off a project I want to gauge what the heat will be like here so do me a favor and answer honestly on a scale of 1 (complete apathy) to 5 (devout enthusiasm):

[sick-thing]

Terfs after they get butch women kicked out of womens bathrooms for looking too much like a man, call cis women men because they don't fit a white western beauty standard, say people who've had mastectomies (which are mostly cancer patients) are mutilated, reduce women down to their anatomy, act like trans men are clueless little girls who can't think for themselves, say women are naturally worse at sports and quiz shows and beauty pageants than men, flash a fake bush in parliament with children present, rile up so much bullshit about trans athletes that now there's laws being made where little girls have to have genital inspections, and throw intersex people under the bus at every opportunity