#not saying the second kinslaying was justified of course

[feanorianethicsdepartment]

#I can believe that it was the lowest death toll of any kinslaying#that they went in with a specific purpose and that purpose was the silmaril#and while they were much more skilled at killing than they were at Alqualondë#they were similarly much more skilled at deliberately disabling then shoving aside#AND I don’t think it would’ve taken much to prompt the iathrim to flee at that point#ESPECIALLY once dior was dead#I think the spiders & other monstrous creatures were already moving in; with the girdle gone#THAT SAID I do not buy that interpretation of the oath#I think it’s just that by Sirion the Fëanorians had concluded that hitting people until they got the jewel then running wasn’t an option#(bc it didn’t work in Doriath; and threats alone didn’t work in Alqualondë!)#the only way was to kill and then take it from dead hands#so—fine#fine. we kill everyone in our way. and then we take the jewel. (via @tanoraqui)

Doriath vaguely hot take : very few people were actually killed during the second kinslaying (unlike the third)

I've been rereading stuff, and I've come to the conclusion that, contrary to popular opinion, the second kinslaying was not a massacre of epic proportions, with many civilian victims, but an episode on a much smaller scale, unlike the massacre in Sirion.

For the following reasons :

I. Any description/allusion to Doriath in the text focuses on Dior as the (almost) only victim of the third kinslaying :

"But Dior returned no answer to the sons of Fëanor ; and Celegorm stirred up his brothers to prepare an assault upon Doriath. They came at unawares in the middle of winter, and fought with Dior in the Thousand Caves ; and so befell the second slaying of Elf by Elf. There fell Celegorm by Dior's hand, and there fell Curufin, and dark Caranthir ; but Dior was slain also, and Nimloth his wife, and the cruel servants of Celegorm seized his young sons and left them to starve in the forest."

That's the main description of the second kinslaying we have, and Dior and his wife are the only direct victims mentioned (on the non-Fëanorian side).

Later on we read this about the Silmaril in Sirion : "Then Elwig and the people of Sirion would not yield the jewel which Beren had worn and Lúthien had worn, and for which Dior the fair was slain (...)"

Again, no mention is made of any victim but Dior (Nimloth is completely forgotten there).

And finally, in the third mention we have of the second kinslaying : "But Eonwë answered that the right to the work of their father, which the sons of Fëanor formerly possessed, had now perished, because of their many and merciless deeds, being blinded by their oath, and most of all because of their slaying of Dior and the assault upon the Havens."

Again, the only mentioned victim is Dior, and there is no indication of further victims. Now, it could be a bias of our sources, who do favour the famous and high-born (and ignore for example armed guards that could have been there), and also Melian/Elwing's line.

BUT :

II. That would make sense if we consider that Doriath was at the time of the second kinslaying recovering from an episode of violence on a, I would argue, much bigger scale :

After Thingol was killed, many people were killed in the fighting between the Dwarves and Elves in the caves of Menegroth ("For there was battle in the Thousand Caves, and many Elves and Dwarves were slain (...). But the Dwarves were victorious, and the halls of Thingol were ransacked and plundered").

Probably, crucially, the majority of these victims were the few warriors that they had. Others were probably killed as well fighting the dwarves later on with Beren and Dior, to avenge Thingol and recover his treasure.

So at the time of the second kinslaying, Dior might have had a few armed guards around him, but the impression we get is that he fights the Sons of Fëanor alone, and I would venture that his wife is killed when she tries to come and defend him.

The rest of the population of Doriath would be non-combatants who just flee, probably like they just fled the first time.

And that's why the text says that "a remnant of the people fled" from Doriath : it's not "a remnant" because the Fëanorians killed them all, it's "a remnant" because they were already what was left of Doriath at the time of their attack.

III.It would also explain why during the third kinslaying some of the people of the sons of Fëanor turn against them, but not during Doriath.

"For the sons of Fëanor that yet lived came down suddenly upon the exiles of Gondolin and the remnant of Doriath, and destroyed them. In that battle some of their people stood aside, and some few rebelled and were slain upon the other part aiding Elwing against their own lords (...)"

We are told that Sirion is : "the last and cruellest of the slayings of Elf by Elf ; and that was the third of the great wrongs achieved by the accursed oath". Sirion is a massacre on a large scale, unlike Doriath.

It would also explain why the third kinslaying is referred to in collective terms, not by singling out one individual. Eonwë talks about "the assault upon the Havens."

IV.I think the reason for the difference in terms of scale of violence between Doriath and Sirion is a strict reading of the Oath :

As a reminder, that's the text of the oath in the Silm : "They swore an oath which none shall break, and none should take (...) vowing to pursue with vengeance and hatred to the ends of the World Vala, Demon, Elf or Man as yet unborn, or any creature, great or small, good or evil, that time should bring forth unto the end of days, whoso should hold or take or keep a Silmaril from their possession."

In Doriath, the Sons of Fëanor ask Dior to return the Silmaril. Dior refuses, Dior is slain.

In Sirion however, it's not just Elwing that refuses to return the Silmaril : it's Elwing "and the people of Sirion". The people of Sirion, collectively, therefore fall under the "vengeance and hatred" of the Sons of Fëanor. And that's why the massacre is on a bigger scale, and some of the Sons of Fëanor's people chose to turn against their lords.

V.It would finally make sense in terms of the gradual descent into violence of the Sons of Fëanor

Time and again, we see them (or at least Maedhros) try and keep the violence to a minimum. He (they) try diplomatic solutions, try and ignore the oath, but "the oath of the sons of Fëanor was waked again from sleep. (...)".

There is a graduation in the violence : first the massacre at Alqualondë, which is not premeditated, then the slaying of Dior and his wife over the Silmaril, then finally the attack over the population of Sirion and, later on, the attack against the guards of the host of the Valar.

[a-world-of-whimsy-5]

For the @ainursecretsanta side event, and inspired by these prompts created by @cilil

Pairing: Tulkas | Maedhros 

Themes: Angst-ish | Soft 

Warnings: Mentions of punishment | imprisonment | death

Wordcount: 700+ words 

Summary: Maedhros humbles himself before his beloved and lord after he earned his pardon and is allowed to leave the Halls of Mandos. 

A/n:  This fic does not have the prompt in its entirety, but the text has been written to reflect the themes of it. 

Minors DNI

Divider by @estrelinha-s

Tulkas did not utter a word while the elf he once embraced as his pupil and the companion of his heart knelt before him. He listened instead, waiting for an excuse, some attempt to justify past misdeeds. He was offered none. 

His audience chamber was empty of all the other elves and Ainur. Tulkas insisted on it when Maedhros rode up to the doors of his halls and begged for an audience. At first, he wanted to refuse and send Maedhros on his way. He had been deeply wounded by the elf's betrayal and wished for nothing more than for him to leave. Then Maedhros took his hand, and pleaded for an opportunity to speak at least. Tulkas felt something stirring within him when he gazed upon a familiar pair of blue eyes and found them empty of the light he once delighted in. He then yielded to Maedhros' entreaties, urging him to wait until he sought the counsel of others. Now they were in a vast hall, all alone, with one being the humble supplicant, the other an aggrieved lord and lover. 

"I will not attempt to lie, my lord." Maedhros lowered his head out of shame. "Nor will I insult you by offering justifications for my misdeeds."

Outside, a wind swept around the trees in the inner courtyard. Their gold and crimson leaves rustled softly. Maedhros recognized that sound, and it pained him greatly. More than once, he and Tulkas lay within the shade of those trees whenever they were done sparring, and ate and talked and loved one another. Such precious moments may never come to him again, and it was all because of him and what he once did. 

"I will say that I have come to regret a great many things from my past life," Maedhros continued. "Following my father heedlessly is one. Shedding the blood of so many elves is another, and, of course, turning away from you. I will always regret turning away from you." His eyes grew wet with tears. "You were forever in my thoughts, my lord, and I... I yearned for nothing more than the warmth of your embrace."

Tulkas sagged into his seat and sighed softly. "You disgraced yourself, Nelyo. Your brothers as well. Why should I forgive you and welcome you back into my arms?"

"I... I do not know, my lord."

"I grieved for you, Nelyo. From the moment I learned of the part you played in the first kinslaying to the moment of your demise and beyond that, I grieved for you. There were times when my grief was more than I could bear. I cannot endure such agony a second time, so if you are playing me false..."

"But I am not," Maedhros dared to lift his gaze. Vivid amber orbs studied him intensely, pinning him to the cool marble floor he knelt on. "I am not playing you false, my lord. I give you my word that I am not."

Tulkas leaned forward and cupped his chin. He looked into Maedhros' eyes. They were dull and lifeless, as if all the joy they once held had been picked clean and consumed whole. 

I should have protected you, he lamented in silence. I should have defied Manwë and come for you. Melkor should never have been allowed to lay a hand on you. 

"I desired to punish you," he confessed instead. "When I went to Lord Manwë seeking his counsel, I yearned for nothing more than to wound you the way you wounded me. He reminded me of what you endured. He then reminded me of the love I still hold for you, and then he urged me to show you mercy. He was right. You have suffered enough. And he was also right when he declared that I still love you. I do love you, Nelyo. And for that reason alone, I will let you stay here. You had endured a great deal already, and I would not be so cruel as to add to it. As for my forgiving you..."

Hope and fear warred with each other in Maedhros' heart. He was hopeful that Tulkas would indeed forgive him. And he was frightened, for Tulkas, while being slow to anger, was also slow to forgive. He listened still, and awaited his lord's judgment. 

"I may forgive you," Tulkas declared, "in time. But," he held up his hand, "only if you are truly sincere, and only if you do not wish to seek the paths you once tread after Aqualondë. And you must hide nothing from me. Are these terms acceptable to you?"

Maedhros nodded, timid and hesitant. Fear slowly poured out of him, and hope poured in. "Yes," he agreed. "These terms are more than acceptable to me." 

"Good," Tulkas replied, pleased to see the resolution in his face. "Let us begin anew, you and I, and perhaps, fate will be kinder to us both."

Tags: @asianbutnotjapanese @3dragonstar

[that-angry-noldo]

No, actually, I want to talk about how most of my tolkien "unpopular opinions" and dislike for "everything's not so simple" comes from russian fandom.

When I only started getting into the fandom, russian really was my only way to do so. Ukrainian fanfiction was fairly underdeveloped (or I didn't have the skills to find better sources), and my knowledge of english was... poor, to say the least. So, yeah, russian fandom that is.

And boy, oh boy, what an experience that was. Russian most popular trope, unsurprisingly, was "everything's not so simple".

Kinslayings? Not so simple, Feanor was justified. Lay of Leithtian? Beren is a monster and should be burnt; Luthien is a naive girl who travels naked, actually; Celegorm and Curufin are her noble resquers; Finrod deserves to die for his idiotism. Miriel & Indis? Why is it even a question, of course Indis is an evil stepmother, of course Miriel is pure and without a flaw, of course 2nd & 3rd houses shouldn't have existed!

The Valar? Hey, did you know russians have "The Black Book of Arda" - a book that is basically about poor little Melkor being right and cruel and scary Valar being mean to him?

I read many fics, but there were three that stuck to me the most (i don't remember their names, though): the one that wanted to retell the silmarillion in the "right" way, the one that basically said C&C were right for capturing and threatening Luthien, and the one where everyone was evil, except elves who lived in Beleriand.

The first one... the first one was basically a huge Feanor apologism, even though the author claimed that they were "just adding nuance" and that "you should always look past the text implications" and that "you can't be in the right if you don't spill a bit of blood, actually". I mean, even if at one point author implies that yeah, 2nd and 3rd houses shouldn't have really existed, it's a huge red flag for me.

The second one, well - the plot goes like this: C&C capture Luthien; C&C talk with Luthien; the talk goes basically like this: "Look little miss, you are your father's daughter. Your father has an army. What we're saying is, you marry Celegorm, he won't love you, you won't love him, yeah you'll be unhappy, your Beren is dead anyways, all we need you for is basically your dad's army." And it is painted as a right decision for Luthien to forsake Beren and marry Celegorm. When someone in the comments said "hey, don't you think what the feanorians told luthien was pretty off the rails?", the author exploded, saying, again, that we should see nuance, and that luthien made the right choice not retrieving the silmarill that would cause 2nd kinslaying and that C&C are much more well-thought that Finrod, and that yeah Finrod is an idiot and the fact that he and Beren will now inevitably die and his death will be pointless - well, sucks to suck, I guess.

Brr. I still get flashbacks from that comment section.

The last one basically shitted on humans. Humans? Oh you mean magicless filthy creatures who only lie, insult and are parasites that need to be destroyed? And everyone who's not an elf should die? And the elves under Valar influence should die, too? And Valar are actually parasites? And Eru is a myth? Yeah. Yeah you know what.

Russian fandom yells about "nuance" but their nuance are just sides switched. Black becomes white, white becomes black. And if you disagree, well, you clearly can't see past the 2nd-3rd Houses biased Noldor propaganda and should therefore be destroyed. (Ha. Seeing some paralels with real life now, honestly.)

That's why I left, kinda. I just felt so tired, all the time. This is why I prefered LoL as a fairytale, and this is why I mostly prefer following canon. Because for me Tolkien was an escapism, first and foremost, but I felt like I needed to have entire essays at hand just to defend my love for it.

In conclusion, I was an unprepared Ukrainian thrown in the mist of Misterious Russian Soul™ and was gradually taking 1d4 confusion damage, until I was so tired I left entirely. And I'm glad I did so, because English fandom is so much more chill, and when people say/criticise something, they do specify that it is just their opinion on a fictional world and people don't have to wage wars and write multiple essays to enjoy their fave.

P.S. My biggest beef to this day is Finarfin being portrayed as a tiny whiny man unable to raise his voice. Whenever I remember that fic I immediately want to bite. But it's just me, probably.

[goodqueenaly]

Of all the instances of lapsed Catholic GRRM bringing Christian/Catholic imagery into ASOIAF - and there are a number - perhaps the single biggest example is in “The Forsaken”. (I’m putting this under a cut; this is not a post to debate real-world religious beliefs or practices, just one to examine how GRRM employs Catholic imagery and ideas in this particular chapter.)

Indeed, the title of the chapter itself seems to be drawn from Jesus’ cry during the crucifixion - “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”. This declaration in itself is a reference to Psalm 22, which begins with the same line and is a psalm of anguish and suffering. Aeron himself obviously suffers terribly during the course of “The Forsaken”, ending with his own sort of crucifixion at the chapter’s end (more on that in a moment), and might well agree with the laments of the psalmist - that “a pack of evildoers closes in on me”, who “stare at me and gloat”, while “all my bones are disjointed”. Yet as Psalm 22 reflects the psalmist’s belief that God is supreme in spite of all that anguish and ends with an invocation for the world to praise God, so the chapter itself calls into question just how “forsaken” Aeron is. Aeron is not rescued from his suffering by the Drowned God, of course (and we need no reminder of how bad the religion of the Drowned God is, one which openly and explicitly mandates rape and slavery in the name of racial superiority), but he attains something of an existential victory over Euron; no matter how hard Euron tries to prove that Aeron’s faith in the Drowned God is meaningless and get him to worship him, Euron, instead, Aeron maintains his faith to the end. 

Moreover, the appearances of Euron in the chapter (save at the end) likely take inspiration from the temptations of Jesus in the desert. Euron appears to Aeron three times in the chapter (prior to Aeron being brought before him at the end, at least), just as Satan presented Jesus with three temptations in the desert; as the biblical temptations came at the end of 40 days of fasting and isolation for Jesus, so Euron’s conversations with Aeron occur during a prolonged period for Aeron of starvation and torture. As the devil tempts Jesus by offering him the kingdoms of the world if he, Jesus, would worship Satan, so Euron (in the first of two shade of the evening-induced visions) tells Aeron, “‘Kneel, brother ... I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest’”. As the devil (in what in one gospel presents as his second temptation) urges Jesus to throw himself from the roof of the temple because the scriptures promise that God would rescue him, so Euron in his second appearance to Aeron openly doubts the power of the Drowned God to rescue his priest - telling Aeron that “‘[y]our god has forsaken you’” and rhetorically asking how the Drowned God allows it that “‘I wear a crown and you rot in chains ... when I have killed three brothers?’”. As Satan in this exchange uses scripture in an attempt to bolster his temptations, so Euron uses the Old Way considered sacred in the faith of the Drowned God to justify his actions - boasting that “‘[o]ur longships are raiding up the Mander and all along the coast, even to the Arbor and the Redwyne Straits. The Old Way, brother’”. As the devil prefaced two of his temptations by saying “If you are the Son of God” - contextualizing the temptations as attempts to determine whether Jesus was truly the Son of God - so Euron's three moments with Aeron all feature him attempting to undermine Aeron’s faith in the Drowned God and his, Aeron’s, identity as the Drowned God’s steadfast worshiper: showing himself as the murderer of all gods, the Drowned God included, having the dream-Urrigon reveal that there is no undersea paradise for the Drowned God’s chosen ones, pointing out the lack of divine punishment for kinslaying, and calling the Drowned God a laughable lie, with himself as the true, tentacled overlord of everything.

Too, the end of the chapter borrows some of its imagery directly from Jesus’ crucifixion. When Torwold Browntooth asks Euron what to do with the captured priests Euron had brought to the ships, Euron commands that Aeron be lashed to his own Silence, then tells Torwold to take another priest for himself and “[l]et them dice for the others, one to a ship”. This order parallels the moment during the crucifixion, when the soldiers, having crucified Jesus take his clothes and divide them into four shares, one for each; since they are reluctant to do the same to Jesus’ seamless tunic, however, the soldiers agree to cast lots for it to see who will get it. Aeron is lashed to the prow of the Silence “clad only in his beard and breechclout”, mirroring traditional depictions of the crucified Jesus. Likewise, Aeron finds lashed beside him the weeping and silenced Falia Flowers, here cast in something like the role of the Good Thief, traditionally referred to as Saint Dismas - one of two men crucified on either side of Jesus, the one who rebukes the other for mocking Jesus. As Jesus comforted Saint Dismas by promising that “today you will be with me in Paradise”, so Aeron offers a last comfort to Falia along the very same lines - “‘All this will be over soon, and we will feast together in the Drowned God’s watery halls’”.

Again, this is not at all to suggest that GRRM is equating Aeron with Jesus in any way, still less in any positive way; indeed, I would. go so far as to say GRRM has made Aeron one of the least sympathetic POV characters (certainly of the non-Prologue or Epilogue figures). Rather, GRRM here seems to have thought it interesting to apply Jesus-like imagery of temptation and suffering to these deeply religious (but, again, in the cause of a deeply disturbing religion) character when he himself was subjected to torture and suffering.

[kendrixtermina]

Something which I think should be appreciated more that Melkor’s schemes didn’t just cause a rift between Feanor and everyone else; There would have been a lot of internal drama in each of the branches, too

We know Anaire dumped Fingolfin for his role in the kinslaying; Of course she might’ve blamed him for being a bad influence on the kids, but they were grown adults, with Turgon having a kid of his own, and we know Turgon and Fingon explicitly got their swoods bloody (and nothing we know about Argon’s and Aredhel’s personalities suggests that they didn’t) so it’s actually quite likely that their mother disowned them - remember a key point of the situation after the darkening is that everyone was acting on impulse & frazzled emotions, doing drastic things they might not have done if they’d had time to think it through. 

I mean, Galadriel flat out turned against the faction that her brothers & cousins were a part of (one could interpret “withstood him fiercely” to mean that she got into an actual swordfight with Feanor himself; And he might be the most powerful elf ever but Galadriel is explicitly number two. Since both lived, it was probably a draw; Maybe she had the sense to withdraw when he started winning; This is before she apprenticed with Melian so she probably hadnt reached her full potential yet) - one can totally justify why she’d take the side of her mother’s people since the Noldor clearly started it, but her brothers & cousins probably had opinions about that. Finrod was probably not present having lagged behind with Finarfin; Galadriel would’ve rushed ahead of them (& hence gotten there in time to witness the kinslaying) specifically because she was eager to leave - and then in Beleriand she gave up the whole battle for unwinnable (she was not incorrect about this...) and camped out in Doriath. (Part of this is probably that she had to be retroactively fit into an established plot structure so she doesnt get much to do apart from a few key moments (still a lot more than, say, Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad, especially if you go with the HC that she & Celeborn were the ones who absconded with Elwing), but it still has implications especially since she’s among the most powerful)

Contrast Finrod who didn’t expect Nargothrond to last & acted accordingly, but felt he had to fight to protect the world from Morgoth; He probably saw it as a good thing that Galadriel would go to set up contacts/ future strategic positions further east, but there was certainly a disagreement between her & her brothers. 

Add to this that she & her brothers were described as having been “as close as brothers” with Fingon & co, with Angrod and Aegnor being tight with Fingon in particular before all went to hell.

Angrod in particular probably had no peace at his dinner table; He wanted to go, but Orodreth and Finarfin didn’t; (At least we’re told that Finarfin’s kids did not criticise him to his face & retained some basic civility) Who knows what faction Eldalote’s family went with. And once he got to Beleriand, he got both Caranthir and Thingol accusing him of being in cahoots with the other faction; Plus the implication that Fingolfin sent him without informing the Feanorians which suggests at least some moderate political calculation on Fingolfin’s part;  No wonder he eventually snapped & spilled everything. 

And if you go with the reading that he was friends with C & C once, they definitely werent friends anymore by that time; though Caranthir clearly never liked em to begin with. 

Likewise, Turgon thought it all to be a very bad idea why all his siblings were like “Go! Adventure!”; Fingolfin himself was somewhere in between in that he didn’t want to go but felt it was his duty to look after the people & take revenge. 

Heck, though his motives were probably among the noblest, Finrod wanted to go while his BFF Turgon didn’t - and then Turgon lost his wife; It’s also implied that Turgon was pretty homesick at least early on seeing as he had Gondolin built to be like Tirion 2.0 while Finrod was initially super stoked to be exploring the unknown lands & meet & learn from the locals. 

Consider alsopoor, poor Finarfin, who probably parted on bad terms with all his siblings, was left without his children, no longer welcome where he ostensibly preferred living, left to mop up the resulting mess all alone, including diplomatic relations. 

We think of him as the one who knew better and noped out, but that would actually be Findis, who wanted nothing to do with the rebellion in the first place and appeared to have been so disgusted with Tirion & its inhabitants that she left & probably renounced the crown; She probably told her siblings that they were all terrible

Finarfin is the one who almost went and turned back last second - which requires a whole lot of self-awareness and humility, to admit that you were wrong; Maybe he’s less upright than his oldest sister but he was more responsible in the end in that someone had to be responsible for the remnants of Tirion and he decided it should be him, even though he was probably not prepared at all cause he was like, 25th in line after his older siblings & all their descendants.   It means that he had to explain to everyone why he’s leaving (including Findis, and his wife whose hometown was just turned into a war zone by his brothers), & then go back and explain to everyone why he stayed after all.

I don’t imagine the parting between Fingolfin and Finarfin to have been too pretty, either, especially since we’re told that Finarfin markedly refused to pick any sides. They would’ve been frustrated with each other at this point, seeing as they both had reasons to do what they did.

 At least Fingolfin’s got Lalwen, Findis is with their mom, Feanor & Finwe were probably soon reunited in Mandos, but Finarfin’s got no one; 

And we can assume that what happened with the royals also played out among the general populace of Tirion as families & friend groups were divided among the various factions. 

Initially the Feanorians would probably have been more unified (they would’ve been a tightly knit group, considering that their father is a standoffish loner who pretty much raised them in the wilderness) - though at the cost of an unreasonable loyalty that eventually proved their undoing, and must have strained what friendships they had with everyone else - though one can imagine that there was some friction between Maedhros as the official leader and Curufin looking to direct things from behind the scenes, with both having somewhat different priorities and principles, but it seems that rather than directly openly challenge/disagree with his older brothers, Curufin tended to try & influence them, or just do whatever he wanted without checking with Maedhros (Cue the Nargothrond debacle...) 

Likewise Maedhros would scold or defuse them & learned eventually not to bring Caranthir to diplomatic meetings, but he didnt efficiently curttail them either; loyalty to ppl you know to be questionable is not unambiguous; I personally got the sense that he was always trying to keep both his vow and his honor and then ended in a rather fatalistic, regretful, pelagian villain sort of place after the sack of Doriath - there he was, running through the forest, looking for both the innocent child casualties and the silmaril, and finding neither. In that sense Curufin was perhaps more pragmatic, but also very factional in his thinking & somewhat amoral. 

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

Who are your least favorite to favorite sons of Fëanor?

Ask 2: What do you think about the sons of Fëanor, each individually, and overall? Did you take away anything from their stories? Personally I learned a lot while reading about them and I was wondering if anyone else experienced the same thing.

Okay, as you probably guessed, I’ll be answering both these asks in the same post, since the answers to each one tie pretty closely into each other.

7. Amrod

I don’t dislike Amrod at all, but we just…don’t know much about him, so my feelings toward him are mostly indifference. The only thing I might be interested in knowing is his thoughts about his father’s actions, his brothers’ actions, and his own.

6. Amras

It’s almost a tie with Amrod, frankly. The only reason I’m placing Amras above him in this list is because, in The Shibboleth of Fëanor, Amras, horrified by the Kinslaying at Alqualondë defies his father and tried to go back:

“In the morning the host was mustered, but of Fëanor’s seven sons only six were to be found. Then Ambarussa went pale with fear. ‘Did you not then rouse Ambarussa my brother (whom you called Ambarto)?’ he said. 'He would not come ashore to sleep (he said) in discomfort.’ But it is thought (and no doubt Fëanor had guessed this also) that it was in the mind of Ambarto to sail his ship back [?afterwards] and rejoin Nerdanel; for he had been much [?shocked] by the deed of his father. ‘That ship I destroyed first,’ said Fëanor (hiding his own dismay). 'Then rightly you gave the name to the youngest of your children,’ said Ambarussa, 'And Umbarto "the Fated” was its true form. Fell and fey are you become.’ And after that no one dared to speak again to Fëanor of this matter.“

It appears that Fëanor didn’t mean to kill his son, but Amras died anyway. In any case, I find Amras’ righteousness and willingness to stand up for his beliefs impressive. Even after seeing what his father could do, he defied him because he couldn’t bring himself to follow Fëanor after he committed something so atrocious. Given Fëanor’s character, I’d say that’s pretty damn courageous.

5. Caranthir

Caranthir is (somewhat) interesting to me for a few reasons. For one thing, he seems to have taken after Fëanor the most in terms of temper, being noted as the “harshest” and “quickest to anger” among the Fëanorians. It makes me wonder what kind of relationship he had with his father, because Fëanor was hotheaded as well. I would not want to be in the room if those two had dissenting opinions.

Another reason why Caranthir interests me (somewhat) is that he was married. Literally nothing is known about his wife, but I’m curious to know how they parted when he left Aman to follow his father and his brothers to retrieve the Silmarils. I can’t imagine they parted on amicable terms.

The third reason Caranthir is fascinating is his relationship with Haleth. What did he think of her personally? Was he impressed at her independence or offended that his offer was refused? How did she (and her people) affect his opinion of humans?

I also wonder what were his thoughts about the Kinslayings and what he thought about as he was dying. (Morbid of me, I know.)

4. Curufin

Curufin I also find interesting for pretty much the same reasons as Caranthir, although the “harshest and quickest to anger” is replaced by “Fëanor’s favorite” (favoritism is not good for your children, Curufinwë Fëanáro!), “much like him in appearance, temperament, and skill”. I actually can’t imagine being Fëanor’s favorite child would have had a good impact on anyone. Fëanor was a perfectionist, and I feel like he wouldn’t accept anything less than the absolute best from his favorite son, and that he didn’t hold back when expressing disappointment either.

Like I said for Caranthir, his relationship with his wife is also a point of interest. How did they meet and fall in love? What kind of household did they run (and raise Celebrimbor in)? How did their relationship deteriorate over the years? How was their parting?

What was he thinking about as he was dying? Was he regretting his actions? Or did he feel that they were all justified? Was he remembering his wife and his son? And speaking of his son, what was his relationship with Celebrimbor like? And how did Curufin’s actions affect their relationship?

And of course, his relationship with Celegorm. The House of Fëanor has always struck me as quite a dysfunctional one, what with Fëanor and Nerdanel slowly growing apart. Why did Curufin bond with Celegorm the most, out of all his brothers? Was it circumstance? Did they share a common interest? They didn’t strike me as being too similar when I read about them. Or maybe they complemented each other well?

One thing that adds nuance to Curufin is that he balanced love for his son and his wife (probably - hopefully), duty and love for his father and brothers, and his close companionship with Celegorm with the fact that, as @martaaa1506 and I were discussing before, he’s a class-A asshole. Not only did he (and Celegorm) trick Luthien into believing they would help her and then kidnap her instead, he also attempted to kill her after his plans failed. Chill. You’d think the poor girl deliberately ran over his puppy with a car or something, when in fact the only affront Luthien dealt him was obtaining a Silmaril and not, like, handing it over to him or something of the sort.

Personally, what makes Curufin so fascinating for me is that I believe by the point of the events of Beren and Luthien, he’d become the worst version of himself. He was on a downwards spiral since a certain point and by that time, he was wholly obsessed with his oath and willing to do anything to obtain the Silmarils. He was even willing to harm people who didn’t simply surrender them to him (as in Luthien’s case) - that’s how consumed with his oath he’d become, and that’s how far he’d fallen.

3. Celegorm

Celegorm fascinates me for almost the exact same reasons as Curufin, given that they were together so often. Of course, Celegorm wasn’t married, but I’ve always been quite engrossed in his friendships with Oromë, Aredhel, and Huan. With the first, I can’t help imagining the falling out that their companionship would have had, since Celegorm decided to follow his father and brothers into exile.

With the second - it’s just so fascinating, imo. They were close friends and cousins, despite the fact that their fathers had a relationship full of animosity. I can’t imagine that Fëanor was happy with his son’s companionship with his half-brother’s daughter. And he was the one Aredhel sought after she left Gondolin; more evidence of just how strong their friendship was. She left her brother and went to him first. He also later helped Aredhel escape Eöl. It’s pretty clear to me that Celegorm cared a lot about her, and I can’t help thinking he must have been so enraged and grieved when he heard that she died - at the hands of her own husband, no less.

And of course, his relationship with Huan. Huan was one of Celegorm’s oldest companions, and they probably knew each other very well. Huan seemed to be pretty loyal to Celegorm, considering that he followed him into exile despite being a hound given to Celegorm by the Valar. I always wonder how Celegorm must have felt when Huan assisted Luthien over him. Did he blame everything solely on his hound? Or did it make him self-reflect and wonder how far he’d fallen? Tolkien says that the “love between them [Celegorm and Huan] was less than before” after that incident, but that can be interpreted in so many different ways. Obviously, their relationship took a blow, but was it just from mistrust, anger, and resentment?

Speaking of Luthien, am I the only one who always pities Celegorm every time I read about her casting off her disguise and him falling head-over-heels for her? (Though whether he actually did or not is debatable.) He fell hopelessly in love with a woman who’s already in love with a human man; that’s some tough luck right there. It also makes me curious; was it just her beauty? I doubt it.

[As I mentioned in Curufin’s section, their brotherly dynamics fascinate me as well.]

All these things aside, Celegorm, like Curufin, was an asshole. Love Luthien or not, it doesn’t change the fact that he deceived and kidnapped her and intended to force her to marry him. (It was also a politically driven move to secure Doriath, but still.) Like Curufin, I think Celegorm was, by that point, the worst version of what he could have been, fulfilled. He was at the height of his negative potential, so to speak.

Also, I don’t know if this is just me, but I think Celegorm would have been really heartbroken to hear that Huan died defending Beren, someone he hates. This is his companion that’s been with him for thousands of years, who not only abandons him but dies for the sake of this human man. A lot of resentment towards Huan, and a lot more hatred towards Beren, I think, would have been caused by that. Personally, I feel Celegorm had a deep-seated personal grudge against Beren and Luthien’s line because of all that transpired between himself and Huan on account of Beren and Luthien. Plus, if he really was in love with Luthien (a fucked up love, I must admit), it must have stung to hear that she chose mortality, again for the sake of Beren. Ouch.

2. Maedhros

I know, I know, I can hear the surprise. Maedhros is second, and not first? (Most people love Maedhros the most, and Maglor second, though it’s quite a close case in some.) Admittedly, Maglor won by a very narrow margin. I’ll explain my reasons in his section.

Ah, Maedhros… how can I express why I love him so much? As @arya-durin-51 put it so perfectly, Maedhros is a stellar mix of both duty, love, and personal morals, acting on all of them at varying points in his life. He runs a perfect balance between doing his duty, acting out of personal love for those in his family, and a general sense of righteousness. Here are a few (emphasis on few) examples:

Maedhros followed Fëanor because he loved his father, but also had a duty towards him as his oldest son. It was this mix of duty and love that prompted him to continue following Fëanor even after his father’s actions at Alqualondë, yet he wasn’t wholly controlled by those traits, either, as shown when he expected the ships to be sent back for Fingolfin’s people and was angered by and refused to take part in the burning of the ships, motivated by personal morality and love for Fingon.

Maedhros attempted to negotiate with and trick Morgoth, a risky move (tht resulted in his capture and torture), because he felt it was his duty; he swore the Oath, because he felt it was right; he had to take this opportunity or the deaths his father caused, and his father’s own death, might be for nothing, and because he loved his kin and didn’t want them to be damned; if he could take this risk and reclaim a Silmaril, they would be closer to accomplishing their oath and less likely to suffer the “everlasting darkness” that they mentioned should they fail to reclaim the Silmarils.

Maedhros surrendered his kingship to Fingolfin because of his personal morality: he felt that his house wronged Fingolfin’s, and that he owed Fingon a debt for rescuing him from Thangorodrim. He stood by these despite the fact that his decision was met with dislike from his brothers.

Maedhros argued against Maglor’s idea to ask for the two Silmarils peacefully again because of duty, love, personal honor, and fear. He felt that he’d done too much to be forgiven, and that trying the peaceful way would prevent him from fulfilling his oath (duty), and thus, render the deaths he caused pointless (personal honor), and damn him and his brothers to the Void (love and fear).

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. The notion that love is the very opposite of duty… well, Maedhros says hi.

Also, Maedhros seems to be the leader among the House of Fëanor after his father’s death, naturally, since he is the oldest and the elves of Aman seem patriarchal to me. All the brothers did their own thing, but I do think there’s a recurring occurrance of them gathering around Maedhros’ banner at times.

We should also consider his adoption of Elrond and Elros. I’ve never doubted that Maedhros loved those kids and that they did love him back, but was that really all? [This will be more expanded on in Maglor’s part.]

I’ve always been partial to angst-riddled characters as well, and Maedhros definitely has a good amount of angst under his belt. He was tortured at the hands of Morgoth and Sauron for thirty years. That’s longer than I’ve been alive. It could have utterly broken him and turned him into just a husk, but even after enduring that, he still marches against Morgoth; again, because of duty, because of love, and because of personal honor.

And of course, we have his suicide. Thinking about Maedhros’ state of mind when he jumped into that chasm makes my heart break every time. I can’t imagine how he must have felt: he’s in terrible pain because of the Silmaril, but he can’t bear to let go of it because he’s done so many things to reclaim it, and if he lets it go now, literally all of that would be pointless. Innocents would have died for nothing. His little brothers would have died for nothing. And speaking of his brothers, I imagine Maedhros was absolutely torn with guilt when it comes to them. He was the eldest, the (in my opinion) unspoken leader, but he was one of the two last survivors. I always thought he believed he failed to protect them. Then there’s the guilt over all of his actions. Maedhros regretted many of the things he committed because of his Oath. Taking all of those factors into consideration… scarily, it’s not at all difficult to understand Maedhros’ decision.

All in all, he’s just such a tragically complex, heart-wrenching character that I can’t not love him with all my heart.

1. Maglor

As made obvious through the process of elimination, if nothing else, Maglor is my favorite out of the Fëanorians. I think it has something to do with his surviving the entirety of the First Age’s events (perhaps he committed suicide later, though).

First, there’s the fact that he was married, which is clearly always a point of fascination for me when it comes to the sons of Fëanor. Same deal; how did they meet, how did they fall in love, and how did they fall apart?

Like Maedhros, Maglor was motivated by duty, love, and honor. He followed Fëanor for the sake of his love for his father and his duty towards the head of his family. He committed his (frankly quite terrible) actions to reclaim the Silmarils out of love for his family, not wanting them to be subjected to the aforementioned “eternal darkness” of the Oath, and a sense of personal morality, feeling that if he didn’t, everyone who fell victim to his pursuit of the Silmarils would have suffered for nothing.

I also imagine that Maglor felt a lot of guilt for the fall of Maglor’s Gap. Since he was the second eldest son of Fëanor, I’m pretty sure that he was in charge of the district, but it was lain waste to by Glaurung. One can assume that being attacked by a dragon led to many, many deaths and a lot of gruesome violence, which I think Maglor, as the governor(?) of sorts of Maglor’s Gap, must have felt some kind of responsibility for.

What mainly draws me towards Maglor is the fact that he, out of the seven brothers, was described to be the most like Nerdanel, inheriting her “gentle temperament”. Nerdanel, as we know, was extremely affected by Fëanor’s individual actions, to the point of desparating from him when it became too much for her to bear. Because of that I think Maglor, out of the seven brothers, thought the most about his crimes, which led to the most regret. That doesn’t mean he was a wimp, just that he felt his guilt the most strongly out of the seven. Not that the other brothers didn’t feel the same guilt; more that Maglor allowed his actions and consequentially, his remorse, to affect him the most.

[Applies to Maedhros as well.] His relationship with Elrond and Elros is so fascinating, in my opinion. (Along with the fact that it also proves Maglor had a fatherly side, which I love.) I imagine he first adopted them out of guilt and pity, and later came to love them as if they were his own sons. As stated, “love grew between them”, but their dynamic strikes me as more complicated. Elrond and Elros still did witness the remaining sons of Fëanor attack their home and massacre many of its inhabitants. If it were me, I don’t think I could easily forgive that, even if Maedhros and Maglor were nothing but kind and loving to me. Yet despite this glaring knot in their relationship, Maedhros and Maglor raised those twins really, really well. Just look at the kind of people Elrond and Elros grew up to be. I’m curious; how did they fix such a serious issue? Did they just ignore it? Did they explain their actions to Elrond and Elros and earn forgiveness?

And thinking about how Maglor (and Maedhros) must have felt to let Elrond and Elros go… I cry every time.

Then we come to post-Morgoth’s defeat, where Maedhros and Maglor steal the Silmarils from Eönwë’s camp. Maglor actually argued that they should try to reclaim them peacefully, which, given all the shit that’s happened to so many people because of the Fëanorians, is a pretty huge risk. The Valar (and Eönwë) have good reason not to accept any offers of peace from him and Maedhros, and the result of such a refusal would probably be the capture of Maedhros and Maglor. So why the argument that they should attempt a negotiation? I can imagine so many heartrending motivations behind this, honestly. I think it was a combination of these factors:

Maglor was just exhausted of all the violence and all the bloodshed; he felt that he had committed too many sins and he was sick of it. Like I said, given Maglor’s “gentle temperament”, I believe he felt the weight of his actions more strongly than his brothers because he allowed himself to.

Maglor felt that violence would lead to worse things. He left his home, his wife, and his mother, and has killed many, many people, and still doesn’t have anything good to show for it. The only effects are: he’s left a trail of victims in his wake, his younger brothers are all dead, and one of the Silmarils, which he participated in two separate Kinslayins to obtain, is out of his reach.

Maglor longed for redemption and forgiveness. I mean, who wouldn’t? Again, given his personality, I think his sins affected him the most emotionally and mentally out of all of his brothers because he let them get to him. At that point, he was disgusted with himself and everything he’d done, and hoping that if he could make it up somehow. And plus, even if he did fulfill his oath, what’s left for him? He’d surely remain banned from Valinor because of everything he did. I think Maglor was pretty desperately hoping to make amends.

In the end, though, Maglor was swayed by Maedhros’ caution that the sons of Fëanor wouldn’t be forgiven. Much like Maedhros, he was influenced by duty, love, personal honor, and fear. He was terrified that if the peaceful way didn’t work (a very valid concern on both Maedhros and Maglor’s parts, because frankly, it’s difficult to earn forgiveness after everything they’ve done) he would be failing to fulfill his oath (duty), and thus, make the deaths he caused pointless (personal honor), and damn him and his brothers to the Void (love and fear). These concerns in Maglor overpowered the desires and concerns listed above, and he agreed with Maedhros to steal the Silmarils. I like that. I like that some things in Maglor were overshadowed by others.

And we have Maglor’s fate to consider. (I won’t talk about his death here, since he’s not confirmed to be dead.) Maglor, unable to bear the pain of the Silmaril that he held, threw it into the sea, and afterwards, wandered the shores for eternity, lamenting. Personally, I believe the “pain of the Silmaril” was more than just the physical pain of it burning Maglor’s hands, but the emotional and psychological pain it brought him to look at something that he abandoned his home, his mother, and his wife for, something that he caused so much death and bloodshed for, something that his younger brothers died trying to obtain. Maglor was just done with Silmarils and done with the Oath; he didn’t want to think about it or have anything to do with it anymore, and just threw it into the ocean. Some part of me wonders if he also regretted it afterwards, thinking that what he did rendered all the deaths (the deaths of those he killed as well as the deaths of his brothers) pointless.

By this time, I think Maglor was fully and utterly consumed with despair and regret. He can’t return to Valinor and face the Valar his mother, or his wife, because of all the crimes he committed. He can’t even face his brothers, because, in the end, he gave up the Silmaril. All-in-all, Maglor believed that he was irredeemable and that there was nothing in the world left for him. And his story ends on this depressing, depressing note. Some fans think he committed suicide, and given his state of mind by the end, it’s heartbreaking to say that it’s not impossible; perhaps Maglor decided that even the “everlasting darkness” was better than living at that point.

Maglor’s character arc ends in utter tragedy for him, and I love that I’m such a sadomasochist. He’s such a morally grey character and so complex, but there is absolutely no happy ending for him. Maglor’s story closes on a fate so bleak that you’d think it belongs to some kind of absolutely, completely, despicable villain. Arguably, that’s the fate of all the sons of Fëanor, but personally I think Maglor’s ending is the most disheartening of the brothers’ endings. I already adored him before, and the fact that his development ends at his very lowest, most despair-inducing state sealed the coffin for me, so to speak.

I first read The Silmarillion when I was 13, and it had a gigantic impact on my perception of being morally grey. The seven sons of Fëanor have done awful, awful things. I’m especially horrified at the fact that they attacked a refugee camp (the Havens of Sirion) and killed most of its inhabitants - refugees. They deserve to answer for and take responsibility for their actions, but that most certainly doesn’t make them non-sympathetic, one-dimensional, or complete villains.

If there’s anything I can say Professor Tolkien has taught me with these beautiful, nuanced characters, it’s these two things:

1. Don’t throw away your morals for your goals. Over the course of reaching for their goal of reclaiming the Silmarils, the Fëanorians abandoned so much of their personal morality. Celegorm, Caranthir, Curufin, Amrod, and Amras paid the price through death. Maedhros and Maglor reached a point that even the Silmarils, the objects that they were so determined to obtain, rejected them, and they had to stomach all of their guilt and grief on top of all that, living to see the repercussions of their actions. Achieving your goals is good, but remain yourself. Don’t let those goals consume you.

2. Fear can be much more powerful motivator than hatred. I personally think that while overall, the seven brothers might have been driven by hatred for Morgoth at first, in the end it was something much more primal that became a motivation that they all shared: fear. They were all terrified, in my opinion, of what awaited them should they fail to fulfill their oath. Maedhros and Maglor, in particular, might have also been driven by guilt and desire for redemption - at least, these traits were more prevalently displayed in them than in their younger brothers - but fear was a motivation that all seven of them shared.

Sorry for the extremely long reply, lol. I wasn’t at all intending to make it this lengthy, but my Tolkien nerd side just came out. Plus, I’ve been wanting to explore my feelings toward the sons of Fëanor in depth for a while now, and these two questions gave me the perfect opportunity.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

And here’s my response:

The Noldor are, in the case of the Teleri, initiating the attack against a people who have literally, for many thousands of years, never known violence. You’re saying that the only action open to the Teleri besides “let the Noldor take whatever they want” justifies the Noldor slaughtering them en masse.

In the Second and Third Kinslayings, the Noldor are not engaging in war against an enemy nation. They are attacking people who are not a threat to them, are not attacking them, are on the same side as them in that Morgoth is the enemy of both. Instead of attacking Morgoth, the enemy that they came to Middle-earth to fight, they are doing his work for him. The fact that the Doriathrim and later the people of Sirion possess a Silmaril (which they did not take from the Fëanorians, but which Beren and Lúthien took from Morgoth, a feat that, in four hundred years, none of the Fëanorians ever attempted) does not, in and of itself, justify military attacks against them. (And between the betrayal of Finrod, the attempted rape of Lúthien, and the attempted murder of both Beren and Lúthien, Dior has very good reasons not to give the Fëanorians the time of day, much less a Silmaril.) How is the removal of a Silmaril from Angband, from the posession of the enemy that killed their father and grandfather, a wrong against the Fëanorians?

Three attacks against people who are not your enemies, are not a threat to you, all on the basis of “they have something that we want”, all with civilian casualities in the thousands at absolute minimum, one of which involves abandoning young children to die to exposure out of sheer spite and malice, and the latter two committed against the few groups of elves managing to hang on against Morgoth, and all three attacks led by the same group of people, are absolutely an atrocity by human standards.

And again, the Fëanorians spent some four hundred years in a defensive posture against Angband without even attempting to regain the Silmarils. When Fingolfin considered a direct assault on Angband with the goal of overthrowing Morgoth, the Fëanorians were against it. So the Oath evidently does not require the Fëanorians to destroy anyone who has a Silmaril. If they wanted to treat other elves the same as they treated Morgoth (which I think most people would regard as overkill), they could declare a Leaguer of Doriath against Dior and spend a couple centuries sitting there watching the borders. But they don’t. Twice, they choose to treat other elves worse than they treated Morgoth, and to do this instead of attacking Morgoth (who, at this point, still has two Silmarils).

Do I think the Oath is influencing them? Absolutely. It’s a thing of evil, as I’ve discussed before, and it will always urge them more in the direction of evil actions rather than good. But they do have the choice of attacking Angband rather than Doriath, rather than Sirion. They’d lose, of course, but at least they’d lose fighting the wrong people rather than helping Morgoth finish off the Eldar.

This is probably the one attitude in the Silm fandom that makes me angrier than anything else.

In trying to imagine how Maedhros and Maglor would be recieved, if Maglor returned from Middle-earth and Maedhros from the Halls at some time in the Fourth Age, I find myself caught between two thoughts.

The first is the enormity[1] of their deeds. They have killed thousands of people, many of them civilians, for for very bad reasons. Even by human standards, their actions were horrific; for elves, they’re on a conpletely different level because the Fëanorians are responsible for literally every case of inter-elven warfare that has ever ocurred. I find myself deeply dissatisfied and aggravated by the number of fics that try to treat this as mistakes-were-made-on-both-sides, or present either the Valar or other elves as being unduly harsh towards them. Make no mistake: the Fëanorians’ actions were unjustifiable on any level, and their victims are in no way blameable; any scenario in which any of the sons of Fëanor return is an extraordinary act of mercy, and would be difficult and painful for a great many people whom they have harmed.

And the second thought is the sheer amount of time that has passed since the First Age. The entirety of the First Age was about 650 years; the Second and Third Ages combined were, in contrast, more than ten times that length - over 7000 years. If, as Tolkien says, elves generally marry early in life and have children shortly after marriage, a typical Elven generation could be anywhere from 100 to 200 years long. Converting that to human generations (about 20 years long) would make it the equivalent of 700 to 1400 years ago for humans (so, roughly speaking, comparable to how far we are from any time between the Fall of Rome and the Renaissance).

It’s not the same as for humans, of course, because elves are immortal and can return from the dead, so there would still be many people around who experienced the Kinslayings. But there would also be many people around who didn’t, who are the great-great-great (feel free to add a few more greats) grandchildren of those who lived through the First Age, and for whom the Fëanorians’ actions would be distant history, and (living in Valinor) the very existence of such a thing as danger would be something so removed from personal experience as to be rather exciting.

And so these two ideas come into conflict when I try to think about how other elves would respond to the Fëanorians’ return. The responses of their families and thise who knew them, I have comparatively solid ideas on. But a random Noldo or Teler, a few hundred years old? The possibilities fluctuate wildly.

[1] A chance to use this word correctly!