#not all clerith and not all cloti are bad

[dutchdread]

Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

Watching Cleriths celebrate NPTK these past weeks, knowing they'll, as always, be proven incorrect has been an exercise in patience. Sometimes it's just clear that you won't be able to convince people of a complex truth when so often discourse is limited to 280 characters. The reason Clerith exists is that people are unable to see the big picture, it survives by people squinting and not seeing the "but" that's located right after every piece of evidence they put forward. This means that you'll often be perceived to be arguing against what is to them the blatantly obvious. It's futile, nuanced argument never wins from emotion, so often you just have to take solace in the idea that "well, it will be fun to see their surprise 4 years from now". So when you get an interview like this, mere weeks after the game releases, which confirms everything that Clotis had been saying about, and had been mocked for, NPTK, you can't help feel a sense of schadenfreude.

Man that's gotta hurt. This is the difference between Clotis and Cleriths. Cleriths don't really like Aerith, because they want to assassinate her character. Rather than a sad tragic tale of a lifetime of love and loss they want to reduce her character to a shallow cliche rom-com about a capricious girl whose fickle affections change by the hour. The fact that the first person Aerith starts developing feelings for after 5 years of pining after Zack is a man who is almost literally channeling Zack becomes a meaningless coincidence in the story. The fact that she knows Cloud for 2 weeks, most of which is also spent pining over Zack is viewed as confirmation of how special their love is. It doesn't matter that Aerith doesn't even know who Cloud is. It doesn't matter that Cloud is shown to very obviously be in love with another woman. It doesn't matter that Cloud is clearly losing his mind. It doesn't matter that Cloud is constantly show as being apathetic towards her advancements. Even them fighting is recontextualized as "good chemistry" just to avoid facing reality. Usually nonsensical romances are seen as bad-writing, but here the cope makes people excuse all the nonsense as "how brilliantly written is this story? They love each other despite it making no sense, now THAT is romance". Zack is called irrelevant, CC is a "ret-con" and can be ignored, ACC is about how romantic it is to want to die to be with someone. The reason Zack is so predominant in Rebirth is in no way connected to Aerith yearning for exactly the bond he's constantly showing to have with her. The contrast with Clouds apathy means nothing, he definitely isn't there to have some sort of pay-off with Aerith in part 3. Nah, he's just there to give Cloud and Aerith his blessing and to F-off. The reason Tifa is silent and heartbroken at the end has nothing to do with her best friend dying and the man she loves losing his mind. The distance between her and Cloud at that moment is totally not used to illustrate the severity of the situation, or to set-up Tifas importance in the events for part 3. Nah, she doesn't get lines because she's just a side character duh!. That is how they think, every single character and story is assassinated, everything happens only to service Cloud and Aeriths romance, even Cloud and Aerith themselves are pushed through the mud. Screw the death of Ifalna, screw the death of Zack, screw the complexity surrounding Clouds Zack shaped psychology, screw Aeriths childhood and desire for real bonds of friendship, screw even the story of Aerith dying and how maybe, JUST MAYBE, the scenes surrounding Aeriths death have SOMETHING to do with the strong emotions surrounding death rather than just being "a cute romance scene uwu". Never have I seen any story interpretation reveal such rampant hatred for a character as Cleriths reveal for Aerith. To them, Aerith is totally the kind of person who would bond with Tifa, hear the very personal and intimate story about the promise shared between her and Cloud, hear that Cloud thinks that Zack is dead, and not 5 minutes later write a story about how "she loves Cloud and they wouldn't need no promises like that other girl". But sure, I'm the one who hates Aerith, not the people who think this is who she is, but me, the person who assumed she'd be less vile than that and that any song she'd write would encompass more than that. I stand up for her character and get mocked, called an Aerith hater, and called "toxic"....and then you get an interview like this. God it feels good to always have all your positions validated by future content. One has to wonder if the people still arguing for Clerith ever sit back and think "wait, the last 100 times I dismissed these peoples arguments I was proven wrong almost immediately, I am constantly having to shift my goalposts while they're just happily sitting there laughing as they consume media about Cloud kissing Tifa, or proclaiming to become her special existence....maybe I am the delusional one...." God I can't wait for part 3, it will be hilarious.

[silver-wield]

Have you seen that Ken is spreading massive harassment emails about TifaTheMonk and impersonating as her to Square? This is straight up psycho behavior at this point. Ken and Maggot and Calli and Aruu and Audrey and ShinraArch and TheStrifeIsRife and literally every DDC member needs to fucking leave this fandom, now. Rebirth fucked them up so badly, with Aerith being straight up rejected by Cloud constantly and especially when he rejected her for the final time at the end of the nightmare date while Aerith was still alive, Cloud kissing Tifa in her GS date and Cloud rejecting Aerith in her GS date while Aerith was still alive, and the Devs constantly confirming that Aerith is indeed dead and that Tifa is Cloud's anchor and that the Cloti kiss is sincere character growth for Cloud from the Cloti hug in Remake. They're getting crazier and crazier as they have continued to lose, especially within the last year, and it's actually scaring me how bad they are.

I said they're all mental. All cleriths are like that. No exception. Some just mask their insanity better than others, but eventually they all explode because their bullship ain't canon and they get pissed about how happy people who play and understand the game are.

[crimsonxe]

FF7 Rebirth spoilers below the cut:

I don't have a clue wtf just went on with Cloud deflecting Masamune but also not leading to Aerith's death but not. Its a such a bullshit thing that tries to have its cake and eat it too; but at least the other Aerith is still technically alive waiting to be woken up in one of the multiple worlds. And I guess "ghost Aerith" is technically still around too. Regardless to the "Aerith has to die" crowd: FUCK YOU. The reality is that she didn't actually need to die, there's not a damn thing that required that outside of edgelord incel shitbags that have a death kink. Which ironically fucking enough the ending of Rebirth even backs up cause there's even fucking LESS shown as to why she died. She sure as hell isn't going to be stopping Meteor nor would that require her dying; instead she does so because incel shitbags wanted it & the OG game did it. Interesting originality be fucked, instead stick to the same goddamn bad end route bullshit as the OG game. I'll stick around to see the trilogy finished, but I'm openly stating now that I'm 1/3rd checked the fuck out. Also just going to put this out there: don't even mention Cloti anywhere near me cause that's been thoroughly ruined and I don't look forward to whatever happens in part 3. And just ftr no I'm not a Clerith and actually ship Cloti in OG, but not in the R-trilogy where Aerti has shined far more via their closeness.

Hope it was worth it writers, you had the chance to actually do an interesting alternate route that rewards people that have been hoping for a "good end route" and who liked/loved Remake for its unique interesting new storyline. But instead chose to throw it away in such a bullshit manner to appeal/line up with the same shitheads that bashed Remake for daring to do its own thing; or to repeat the same goddamn story as before rather than forge a new path. And I can't stress enough how the way it was done is such a shitty ass manner. Either Cloud deflects Sephiroth's sword and Aerith lives or he fucking doesn't and she dies; either fate is changeable or its not; either there's a multiverse of unlimited potentials including Aerith living or there isn't; etc. Fuck 5% of Rebirth, the other 95% is great. Such a goddamn waste. If Nomura is the one responsible for Remake's "fuck Fate, let's make our own path" aspect, then plz let him be the main one heading up Part 3 to try to course correct back from the betrayal of the concept that Rebirth's last 5% did. Show the timeline where Cloud did indeed save Aerith and have that Aerith join the team; have them break Fate instead of treating it as some immutable thing cause fuck that; and no more bullshit like having someone block a strike then having the story backhand via shitty ass reality rewrites (a la Masamune stuck in the ground to the side from an unharmed Aerith that suddenly is reality warped to have blood on it and Aerith being hit with a phantom stabbing cause "Fate"). I'll easily take Remake's vision over Rebirth's last 5% (I have to stress this cause 95% of Rebirth is fantastic, its only the last 5% that is incel edgelord nihilistic garbage to justify killing off a character cause "that's what happened in OG".

And let me be clear on this: my anger isn't where it should be which at Sephiroth as the one that did the deed as the villain aka proper narrative writing. My anger instead is aimed at the bullshit method of how it was done, which isn't how a narrative should come across. All I see if the very blatantly check off box that was bent to reach. Remake was 95% good, 5% mindblowing and getting me heavily invested; Rebirth 95% great, 5% bullshit and throwing away an entire section of investment. I really am having to work to give a shit about the remaining characters, cause the writing's failing caused that level of collapse.

Since this is the rant post: While I give credit for mostly shying away from sexist incel tropes in regards to the femme characters; don't even think for a second I didn't notice the little things that are there still. Shiva having jiggle physics; and even Tifa being hit with them during particular side quests. Edit: So from what I've gathered the main case of Tifa having them is a matter of you're expected to have her swimsuit on at that point, instead of her regular one; so while still annoying cause jiggle physic shouldn't be there at all its at least not in defiance of her sports bra that'd be more egregious.

I'm fucking done.

The really infuriating part is that I'd STILL give Rebirth like an 8/10 or even 9/10; cause as I've repeatedly mentioned 95% is just THAT damn good.

[asoulofatlantis]

You know... I do not want to partake in the shipping war and I belong to the people who say "Both ships are valid" even tho I do have my preferences. But while scrolling the tags on Tumblr I walked straight into the "Tifa got an actual Kiss and Aerith doesn't" - discourse and I think it's funny.

Cloti Fans always say that Aeriths feelings for Cloud are actually because of Zack. Yet, when she doesn't kiss him, even tho there is still a lot of Zack in him, it is a win for Cloti? Hardly! If you think about it that way, Tifa kissed a fucked up Zack version of Cloud in her event and not the actual, real Cloud. Aeriths wanted to find the "real Cloud". This is why they didn't share a kiss, because this wasn't the "real Cloud". Tifa was fine kissing a man who was not the "real" Cloud on the other hand. Which puts this Kiss kinda into a bad light.

I have not yet seen the scenes, but from what I saw and heard, I stay with what I said in the first game, that SE made it really hard for Tifa on multiple occasions. It does look like she has a leg up here, because she got a kiss. But thinking about it... how much worth did this kiss have at that point? It's not like I am saying real Cloud doesn't have feelings for Tifa, its just... Tifa kissing him, when she knows he is not fully himself and his brain is kind of fucked up right now makes you question her a little bit.

And that has been an issue ever since the first game. When the plate was about to fall on sector 7 and Cloud could choose who to wake up first, it so happens that Aerith is the one jumping up, being all like: "We have to save the people in sector 7!" even tho most of them were likely just a bunch of random strangers to her and she KNEW she couldn't save them and yet she desperately wanted to try anyway. When you wake up Tifa first, her first thought is not saving her friends and neighbors, her first thought is her jealousy and she asks Cloud about Aerith. If you watch both scenes in comparison, it makes Tifa look really bad. In her "Date" - Scene in Remake, she also first talks about Aerith. She eventually gets her cute moment with Cloud, but first we talk about Aerith. In Aeriths Dream-Sequence with Cloud, they only talk with and about each other and even possible feelings for each other. They do not talk about Tifa. Or Jessie. Or anyone else. And as I've heard, even in her freaking Golden Date, Tifa and Cloud first talk about Aerith (and Zack) and I do not understand why SE can not give Tifa a moment with Cloud that is just for and about them.

And once again, putting the dates in comparison, yes Tifa gets a Kiss, but if you watch Aeriths date afterwards, you are made painfully aware that the man Tifa kissed wasn't even the real Cloud for gods sake. Making you wonder if she was so desperate that she was willing to Kiss a Cloud that wasn't fully himself, instead of waiting to Kiss the "real Cloud" eventually.

I mean "Hey Cloud, do you remember our first kiss?" - "Ah yes. That was when I was still partly impersonating Zack and got controlled, manipulated and brainwashed by Sephirot every now and then." doesn't sound so good.

Also... if Aerith had kissed Cloud, people would have said she kissed him because of Zack. So this way, was the best outcome for the Clerith ship.

It is sad tho... that we likely never get the chance to get our Kiss-scene, given that fate was not prevented in the end... oh well...

[jackietaylorsghost]

clotis are saying the trailer focusing on aerith means she will 100% die, what do you think?

some of them are so desperate for a woman to be horribly murdered over a ship i am begging them to get a life and have fun for once in their miserable lives 😭 and it’s such a terrible trump card like you need her dead that bad? wonder why! im a ship and let ship person and i think the material allows a cloti or clerith interpretation based on your preferences but sometimes i wonder if the people who can’t cope with the thought of aerith not dying even like their ship lol.

i think by the end of part 3, aerith will be alive and with the main party. im so confident in it i could really do myself some damage later 😂😂 but its hard for me to marry up the changes they’ve made with aerith not living. the theme of defying your destiny, esp with aerith having foreknowledge and cloud’s visions of That Moment, would feel really depressing if actually you can’t defy it and you end up dead again. the song lyrics of hollow and nptk too which ask and answer a question. cloud wants to find aerith again; she replies saying he will and they’ll be together ever more:

and then there’s the yellow flowers which signify reunion which were a key visual between cloud and aerith in remake:

all that to say, I think there’s a lot to suggest they can defy that destiny this time and reunite for good. honestly id have been fine with a 1:1 remake but they added in some major new themes and changes and if they ultimately ended up telling the same story id be very let down/disappointed. if you’re gonna add in changes do something different with it!

[unknown-lifeform]

12 and 23 for the violence ask game?

Sorry for taking a bit to answer, I didn't have time to get on my laptop and I hate answering asks on mobile

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

I've had to think about this one because I feel most characters I like are fairly popular? Or at least they have as much people who love them as they do people who hate their guts. Best I can give you from ff7 is that Rude is fundamentally far sexier and more interesting than Reno and that's the truth.

Most of my unpopular faves I would say are in the Tolkien fandom probably? Like Maeglin, I get why a lot of people hate Maeglin I get it he's a scumbag, but he also has the most fascinating story and themes going on with him. The tragedy going on with him, the cycle of abuse, the self-fulfilling prophecy... So much juicy material. The post-rebirth redemption arcs you could write for him, god all his interpersonal relationships would be so fascinating. Basically if you like forcing a bad guy to face his own past actions and deconstruct them and have to learn how to live with it why are you not grabbing Maeglin

I mean yeah I know why, because the Feanorians are right there.I know Feanorian fans who hate Maeglin and like. Bro. When Celegorm is shitty to women we can give him a redemption arc but not Maeglin? And yes I've seen this type of fan and they baffle me

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to

Cloti and Clerith. Sorry but both ships are boring to begin with, and have the most annoying ass fans. Deeply uninterested forever. I don't have the energy in jumping in the middle of a 20 years long shipwar over Generic JRPG Het Ship #34

[karxx]

Cloud and Aerith have got to be one of my favorite final fantasy ships 💔 (I’ll always love zakkura though, they where my first ship). At first I didn’t like Clerith because I was all like “wtf. That was Zacks girl!! That has got to be breaking some sort of bro code or whatever” but after finishing the remake and reading/watching advent children I finally understood what the hype was about

For some reason, I feel like it’s a very unpopular ship? Like, I know it isn’t- I’ve seen the whole Cloti and Clerith ship war to know that it’s a very popular ship. But compared to cloti, its not as popular.

Now I don’t like cloti a whole lot, just because I sympathize with Tifa a lot and think she deserves better (this is based off of my opinion from the advent children light novel). Not saying it’s a bad ship, I understand WHY people ship it but personally it’s just not for me

No matter how many fandoms I move to though I always have a place in my heart for Clerith, wether that be ship wise or platonically, they make me so happy :(

[springtimefroggy]

aacviirlytkfjd I can't stand remake/rebirth only fans who only characterize sephiorth as a hot gay man following cloud around it's the worst thing ever

like there is so to his character and he's so interesting but all I see with rebirth and remake fans is "oh he's so hot look how hot he is he sure does love cloud a lot"

no

there's so much more there but that's all I ever see him characterized as in rebirth and remake only spaces

same with cloud

it's just like "oh haha cloud mentally ill haha he's hot too we should ship him with the other hot guy(sephiroth) and make that the only part of the relationship that we talk about. Haha there's nothing else to him other than haha he has headaches and has hallucinations like" like shut up shut uppppopppppp stopppppppp

I saw someone say something like "I wish the ffvii fandom was bigger it's so small but if it was bigger it would be known for the sephiroth x cloud ship" SHUT UP DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUR SAYING.

ffvii is the biggest fandom I've been in it's huge. the amount of shit in it is so bad. Like what do you mean you wish it was bigger it's huge. It's got as much ehitty arguments about it as stuff like mha when it comes to shipping. And the othering that comes with it where it's the 'us against you' with the cloti and the clerith stuff. It's annoying like you don't need to argue what is right. Everyone can do whatever they want and clearly they are all dating each other.

Anyway ffvii fandom has some of the funnest people ever and some of the most annoying Twitter user teenager people ever. I'm not even tagging this I don't wanna get in trouble.

Moral of the story is I kinda hate rebirth and remake only fans that don't even look into the original and take the game at face value and don't think at all about it and they only really like the attractive characters.

Anyway cloud is a straight man who is also a lesbian but also bisexual and autistic

Sephiroth is agender aro ace because I said so

I have a lot of more to say about this shit

I kinda hate and love ffvii fandom

Ffvii is one of my favorite things ever and it just bothers me when people take it at face value and like the game cause the characters are hot.

THERES MORE TO SEPHIROTH AND CLOUDS RELATIONSHIP THAN SHIPPING

[strifelockhart]

Hello. I am the same anon who sent the "Fuck it!" post and honestly, I'm considering being a Clerith only to ease the pain of CloTi (my otp) not being canon. There's so much Clerith fan service nowadays in works such as Möbius that I believe that SE is foreshadowing the confirmation of Clerith in the remake/KH3. I even read essays written by @astoryofalove and (s)he used canonical evidence that are against CloTi. I'm sick of being bullied all the time by Cleriths and I even puked/cried about it!

I'm very sorry for overreacting, but I'm done with the arguments, the hate, and the rage associated with the LTD. I want Cleriths to stop being so rude to others who disagree with them and the same should be said to CloTis. Had SE been less ambiguous about CloTi/Clerith/Zerith, none of this shit would've happened. I want to like Clerith because it is a beautiful ship, but the fandom scares me so much that I began to hate it. Please help me because I don't want to be picked on anymore. 😖

There’s no reason for you to pretend to like something you don’t. If you ever need someone to talk about Cloti, come to the inbox (or send a chat message) and we will get back to you! There’s plenty of Cloti media out there (fanmade and otherwise) for you to enjoy. I say stick to your fandom and don’t get into the debates, because they can get rather ugly sometimes. There’s a reason I have stopped debating. And it’s not because I don’t love Cloti. It’s because I just don’t care anymore. I love Cloti, I think Clerith is cute//ok and I’m happy for my friends that ship it if they get anything. But I pretty much refusse to argue anymore. I will give my two cents and opinion on things, but that’s about all.

Let me ask you this, why are you reading Clerith essays? You should be reading Cloti ones and reminding yourself how great your own ship is. ^^ To me, there’s just as much evidence for one ship as there is the other (when it comes to fanservice). If we’re looking at the original game alone and Advent Children + Dissidia, ofc I believe that Cloti was/is canon. 

However I also know that is just the way *I* interpret things, and that other people interpret it differently. There’s nothing wrong with that or pointing out which parts of the game made you feel that way. I’m sorry if anyone is actually bullying you, thats not cool 2 do.

But I think you really need to relax from debates and reading things that dont pertain to you ;-; Surround yourself with people in your fandom, and ship stuff that actually makes you happy. I’ve been done with the LTD for a long time now. I’ve been arguing about it since 1997 and there’s only so far you can go before you realize that you’re tired. 

I don’t ship Clerith romantically, I probably never will. But I don’t hate seeing it , nor will I be upset if it actually did become canon. I’ll always be rooting for Cloti though, and I will always be happy if SE throws it a bone outside of canon. I was so super stoked when the Cloti event was announced and once again it focused on their promise, one of my favorite aspects about the ship. That didn’t happen too long ago! So I’m sorry if you’re feeling like C/T stuff is nonexistent lately... but I really don’t think that’s the case. c:

Like I said before , if you need an ear or a reminder on why Cloti is great, the CT fandom is pretty open and willing! Just ask any of us tbh, im sure there’s plenty willing to remind you why it’s a great ship. And plenty of people that will make you feel happy in the ship.

It’s exceedingly easy to ignore other shippers. Just don’t give bullies the time of day, and stay away from the LTD if it’s too stressful for you. There are also many friendly people in the Clerith fandom too. As a multishipper and someone with friends in both ships, I can say that honestly. So if you’re really interested in Clerith because it appeals to you, you’ll be accepted for sure. It’s about respect really, and as long as you’re being respectful to each ship that you like Im sure things can be fine.

I too would love for the arguments to stop, but thats unrealistic! The FFVII fandom is kind of up there with the Bleach//Naruto fandoms when it comes to shipping wars. People can get personal... It can cause hurt feelings and spite. If more people just stepped down and apologized and agreed that their own views were acceptable things would be a lot nicer! But for big fandoms like these, some people will just not change.

Anyways, if you need a friend in fandom like I said before there are plenty of shippers who are nice, willing to talk about their ship, and will encourage and be there for you. This blog will definitely count as one for Cloti. ^^ So I hope you cheer up and feel better! Please join us for future Cloti events and remake in the future. Don’t be sad!!

[altocat]

did you know that both clerith and cloti are trash

Literally where are you guys getting these takes from lmao

Cloti and Clerith are NOT trash. Sure, the shipping war can get extremely tiresome and YES there can be all sorts of unnecessary hostility and immaturity in how fans of the pairing interact with the wider fandom. But the ships themselves are not trash. They fit the narrative. They add to the characters. They connect with people on an emotional level. There is fundamentally nothing wrong with either of them. And there is nothing wrong with anyone who likes them.

And honestly, going after people for the ships they like is cringe. Policing the ships that people are allowed to like is cringe. Writing hit pieces about how certain ships are bad and how liking it is bad is cringe.

Cloti and Clerith are not trash.

And the sooner we can come together as a community and stop being so childishly antagonistic about something as inconsequential as fictional relationships, the better.

[dutchdread]

Hi, I'm sorry if this question has been answered before, but what are your views on the whole Cloud not answering Tifa when she asks if he loves her. I'm not entirely sure where it's from, sorry.

Sure, it might have been asked before, I know I've answered it before, but I've talked about this subject in many places so it might not have been on Tumblr. Either way, the question doesn't bother me, it's a good question since people bring it up a lot, so having a chance to reiterate the answer isn't a bad thing. The scene you're talking about is from the short story: " On the way to a smile - Episode Tifa". Like with all these supposed rebuttals to Cloti this argument fails when you look at the situation honestly for more than two seconds, and is actually Pro-Cloti. Firstly, this argument suffers from the same problem that I brought up a while back in my article concerning "the most misunderstood quote in the LTD". Namely that for this argument to make sense you already have to admit that Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship. There is not a person on earth who would walk up to random friends in the middle of the night and wake them up to ask them whether they love them. The scene is framed as Tifa being in Clouds bedroom, and since Tifa is never mentioned to go to his room and Cloud seems to not be surprised about her being there Occams razor will tell you the most likely reason she's in his room is because they're sleeping together. So even if we look at this situation in the most pro-Cleriths way possible then we still already have a situation where Cloud and Tifa are in a relationship, because only in a relationship does it make sense to talk about relationship issues. And since the very notion of stories is to have a resolution we can also surmise that by the end of the story these relationship issues are in some way fixed, either by them going their separate ways, or them working it out. And since we've discussed the nature of the issues Cloud is facing in depth on this page and have discussed how they are resolved, we know the answer to these questions. The issues are resolved by Cloud returning to Tifa and the children, as has been explicitly stated by the developers.

Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be back home where they belonged. ~ Nojima - Reunion files - pg. 70

Let me stress this again, the most PRO-Clerith version of this argument has Tifa and Cloud being in a relationship and working it out by the end. And in reality it's even more pro-Cloti than that. The very fact that Tifa is concerned about Cloud not loving her implies that him loving her is in some way the standard. It's not that Tifa and Cloud are friends and it's going so well that Tifa is wondering "wait, does he maybe like me more as just friends? does he perhaps....LOVE me?" no, the implication is that the accepted state of affairs is that they were two people in love, and that she is now questioning whether that's actually the case. Now note that Tifas insecurities by themselves mean nothing. Tifa can be extremely jealous of Aerith and completely convinced that Cloud is depressed because he actually loves another woman, and yet be completely wrong about that, as is clearly the case. Whatever insecurities Tifa might reasonably have, they're pretty clearly shown to be false by the sub-sequent events of Advent Children and all the quotes surrounding it. We know the reason Cloud was depressed, we know the reason he left. As I have discussed in depth here: "why does Cloud think about Aerith if he's not in love with her" as well as on other articles. In short, Cloud is depressed because of Cherophobia, PTSD, Fear of failure, and guilt, and his ultimate reason for leaving is due to his Geostigma. Tifas romantic worries are shown to be unfounded. Concerning the scene itself, a lot of people pretend that Cloud doesn't answer Tifa, that is incorrect. Cloud is asleep when Tifa asks the quote. When this wakes him Tifa changes the question to "do you love Marlene". The reason she does this is most likely because she's scared of the answer, she chickens out and instead of repeating the question, which he missed on account of BEING ASLEEP, she changes it to something less directly threatening to her heart, "do you love Marlene". The most important thing to note is that Cloud answers in the affirmative, he DOES love Marlene. Most importantly, this answer also serves as an answer to "do you love me?", either because Cloud straight up heard Tifa (I don't think he did, but some people pretend he did) and is answering her indirectly, or because this is how you use storytelling to provide an indirect answer to the viewer. The scene illustrates, in general, that Clouds issues are not due to a lack of love. There is a different problem, what is that problem? Well, I've already provided you with a link showing just that. Let me also quickly touch on what happens later on in the short story in general:

Cloud is looking for a way to atone, which he finds through Denzel.

“So the problem was resolved?” Tifa asked. “Which problem?” Cloud responded. “Your problem.” “Oh…” Cloud thought about it. “It’s ok if you don’t want to tell me.” “I can’t really explain it well…” Cloud warned before starting to talk. “The problem isn’t resolved. Well, I never tried resolving it for a long time, I think. You can’t retrieve lost lives.” Tifa nodded silently. “But maybe we can save the lives who are in a crisis just now. Maybe even I can do it.” “You mean Denzel?” “Yeah.” “Hey, do you remember what you said when you brought Denzel here?” “What did I say?” “A lot of things. Even if I opposed it, you would bring him back with you. I could just feel it.” “That…” Cloud was making a face like a kid who thought he would get scolded. “Tell me. I’ll decide whether I’m angry or not after I listen.” Cloud nodded and continued. “Denzel had collapsed in front of Aerith’s church. That’s why I thought Aerith lead him to me.” Saying all that in one breath, Cloud looked away. “You went to the church.” “I didn’t intend to hide it from you.” “You did hide it.” “I’m sorry.” “I’m not saying you couldn’t go. But next time, I’ll go with you.” “I understand.” “And you’re wrong, Cloud.” Cloud was perplexed as he looked at Tifa. “Aerith didn’t bring Denzel to you.” “Ahh, I only thought that…..” “I didn’t mean it that way.” “Aerith brought Denzel to our home.” Cloud gazed at Tifa and finally smiled. __________________________________

This provides further evidence that the issues between Tifa and Cloud weren't due to a lack of love, but were due to Cloud suffering from the guilt of failing to protect Aerith. He doesn't know how to deal with that because this is not something he can take back: "You can’t retrieve lost lives.”. However, he is looking for a way to atone and thinks he's found one by protecting those who are still alive, in this case Denzel. Subsequently his situation with Tifa seemingly improves. But then the story ends with Clouds sudden disappearance, and Tifa wondering if the improvement, and the accompanying smiles, were a lie. The story lets that question linger, it is a cliff hanger, the set-up for Advent Children, advent children is supposed to answer the question, and it does. The answer to the mystery of why Cloud suddenly disappeared when things appeared to be improving, is that he contracted Geostigma.

Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful living he’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.”-Nojima in AC prologue.

Case closed, Cloti wins again. Like always, whenever you look at any scene in the larger context you come to the conclusion that it perfectly fits the overall story and concepts proposed by Clotis. It's the remarkable coherency of this interpretation that in my opinion is it's best proof. Cleriths propose a very shallow story, they never look deeper than "Clouds actions revolve around romantic love, therefore, every action has to either directly prove romance, or disprove it, there can be no unrelated issues". There is no nuance there, no understanding of deeper concepts. There can't be, because as soon as you try to add those the interpretation falls apart at the seams, you run into a hundred conflicting quotes and a thousand themes that don't fit together or are downright bad. You get stories about a man abandoning sick kids because he wants to die to be with a dead girl, for no other reason than that he knew her for one week and now is obsessed with her. There is no story here, no beauty, no lessons, no morality, just a weird shallow death cult, and the biggest proof that it is a cult is how they can look at a scene like the one you proposed, and delude themselves into actually believing their shallow misrepresentations constitute "a good argument".

[silver-wield]

so i argued with a cloti in a tifa server. They said the biggest factor why c/eriff doesn't happen is because of Zack. Apparently it's bro code that saves the day😑. And i asked them when the fck do they see this. They told me for one he finds her attractive. Because of the dress they say for example. I said the usual points and they told me "yeah he's like oh? She can be this pretty? " And that we should all include this because it's in the game. They still haven't told me what the worst and mid dress means lol but.. that's in the game as well right? So why conveniently ignore that? So what's the common denominator then? It's the dress, not her. He DGAF about her facial features jfc, was the bikini reveal not enough she's literally half naked and DGAF. And they tell me that's because he met tifa first. Like wat?? I don't get why there are some clotis jerking off at high speed to give c/eriff a crumb and then insult them for being stupid. Sometimes i really wonder if they care about tifa and cloud or just wants her to be just another choice.

Isn't it nice that we have a character called Cloud whom the word loyal and devoted is an Understatement, because he's Never been tempted lol. He's just awkward, kind and nice but he knows what he wants. And he knows his type. And that ain't the assertive gal , Nope.

In any case, if that's the case do we thank zack because of him we didn't get a c/eriff k***? Seriously, they complain about the mischaracterization of him but these sepcific types of clotis do it anyway. It's in fanfics it's in fanarts. Goddamn Weirdos and I feel bad for him.

Does it never occur to them that by having a thing like this is basically saying he's a goddamn hypocrite for being jealous whenever tifa is with another guy. And this is the version they believe tifa deserves?? Okay. EWW🙄😬.

I'd rather stay with Canon lol.

Seriously what are these people smoking. He remembers Zack and suddenly it's about bro code (literally Not in the game, and Not necessary because he's All about Tifa from the get go) and not "holy shit how tf do i forget about my bf" the disrespect for Zack JFC. And don't get me started with some zeriths. They seem to like this BS "crush", but not once do they feel bad for Zack? UGH. Would they be happy if someone said Zack has a thing for cissnei and tifa?

Cloud literally feels bad about the Zack death thing and apparently nobody brings that up enough?? Wow, I'm getting a AC BS flashback. Guess it's the devs fault for not emphasizing enough, but why oh why Zack is Important, I'd say Actually important than that Bitch.

No he doesn't think she's pretty. He literally doesn't recognise her and those people should know that if they follow canon.

Sounds like they're cleriths infesting the server. No cloti would ever say he thinks that rancid corpse is attractive when he has Tifa.

[phantomsxng]

The worst thing about the announcement of crisis core reunion is having to see people on Twitter fight to see which ship is better (and censoring ship names like it's something bad)

People are allowed to ship whatever they want. And seeing someone talk about Cloud loving Aerith or Cloud loving Tifa isn't them saying that you aren't allowed to ship something else.

But it's funny seeing people trying so hard to tell others they're wrong

"cloud only loves Tifa, it's canon! They're in love!"

Yeah I know.

Good for them and good for you for shipping cloti. I would appreciate if you stopped trying to stop me from shipping something else or whatever you're trying to do by telling me what's canon and what's not.

And this isn't only for cloti shippers, it's for zerith shippers, for clerith shippers... Your ship is awesome, but let others enjoy their ship!

I love all of those ships. I ship all of those.

I ship Zack x Aerith x Cloud x Tifa. Poly relationship for the win for me.

Anyways, I just wanted to rant a bit agsjwgjse I think I'm going to see if here on tumblr things are better

[fauzhee10069]

FF7 meta posts archive

This is my collection of FF7 meta posts. Although some are written by myself, mostly written by fellow beloved fans of FF7 that I reblogged. Unlike my JJBA metas where all the posts are written by myself.

I created this archive not to steal their credits, but just to navigate easier as their writings are so precious to me.

Character meta:

Understanding Cloud’s mental health & depression

Aerith’s consistency and the problem with zerith

(Rant) Tifa’s undeserving tainted image

Sephiroth and his respect to women

Rufus’ shades-of-grey and his flaw

How Rufus is bad at PR

Rufus’ power-level

The Life Summary of Rufus Shinra

About Rufus, Shinra and the Turks

(JP dialogue breakdown) Rufus and The Turks in the first part of FF7 Remake

Are The Turks expendable for Rufus?

Reno’s remorse during Sector 7 plate fall

Jessie’s father, the horror of mako poisoning and Reeve’s motivation to side with Avalanche

Reeve, the angel of Shinra and his relationship with his underlings

The duplicity of Reeve Tuesti

Reeve Tuesti, his achievements and his leadership over WRO

Lucrecia Crescent, a tragic example of wrong decision

Character design breakdowns:

FF7 characters’ height

Remake Rufus’ headscratching design and headscratching bottom part

Remake main gang’s design review

19 y/o Tseng

World building:

(HCS) Costa del Sol

(GameSins) Law in AC’s post-apocalypse

Shinra’s propaganda things

Shinra’s domination and its parallel with VOC

The ‘possible’ history of Shinra’s domination through TOTP (aka. FF7 world building)

Trivia:

One-Winged Angel is Jimmi Hendrix’s Purple Haze reference

Shinra Inc: young President Shinra’s contribution & the founder

Sephiroth was Cloud’s parental figure

Tifa and Aerith’s fun facts from TOTP

Tseng and Cissnei officially become the youngest when joined Turks

FF7’s Japanese voice actors and their counterpart in JoJo

Theories:

How Gaia (FF7) and Spira (FF10) can be connected

(JP version) Sephiroth is not time-traveling and another possible threat

Rufus & Avalanche (remake)

President Shinra’s taste in women

GameSins/Suspend-Your-Disbelief:

Contradiction between Lucrecia and Gillian’s Jenova cells

Rufus’ ‘easy pass’ in meeting with Avalanche personally

Mutten Kylegate’s true nature had to be toned down (tw violence/sexual abuse)

Wutai war, tragedy or a sad joke?

Zack Fair as a plot device

(Animation Error) Reeve & Heidegger’s heights

Comatoze in FF7 be like…

Shinra Inc, the only relevant company in the world with its hilariously low qualification standard

The ups and downs of Shinra’s standard for its employees

Shipping:

Tserith, their age difference and my objection

Clerith in platonic view

Clerith (FF7) and its parallel with ranwan (2ha)

Aerith and her awesomeness outside clerith (or being anyone’s love interest)

Contradictory Tifa's chapter in TOTP and how it affects cloti

(YMMV) Personal issues in shipping cloti

Breaking down JP version of cloti’s moments

Let’s give cloti a chance (+ headcanon)

The problem in shipping FF7 best girls (+ aerti fanart)

Sephirus and my reason for this purely crack pairing

Headcanons:

The Story Behind Rufus’ Shotgun Dash Move

Tseng’s mental breakdown

Who killed Kyrie’s parents?

The Turks as babysitters

My Fanart:

Tsengru (ABO AU)

Sephirus (ABO AU)

OCs:

Ria Ferrer, Rufus Shinra’s secretary

Dr. Christine Citrias (ABO AU)

AU:

FF7 ‘Stela Nox Fleuret’ AU as Lucrecia’s secret granddaughter

(ABO verse) o!Rufus and o!Cloud’s wedding dresses

Shitposts:

The secret of Tseng’s longevity

Elena’s journey of the Turks (FF7FS)

Diaorith (Diao Chan!Aerith)

Shipping War in FF7 be like…

Tifa vs Scarlet’s slap fight better be like...

[footballandshenanigans]

You know what, I normally avoid screenshotting bad takes but this one really takes the cake;

I don't want to accuse but it seems this person is a part of either cloti/clerith faction of the fandom and I normally do give the benefit of the doubt but... this...is why you do NOT enter ff7 fandom without playing the game. This reeks "I don't play the game,I'm only here for shipping and I don't care about the story, hell I don't even bother to research,I just love hanging out with my shipper friends and swallow everything they told me as Gospel."

Sephiroth had a lot of reasons...

1. He stabbed Aerith because she was the one who could stop his big plan of dropping the meteor

2. He stabbed Shinra senior because Shinra has been using him as the Company's prop, a weapon, a capitalistic fodder. He was the one funding Hojo & the Science department to do all kinds of unethical human experimentation on him & those Deepground members. And I say GOOD RIDDANCE. You go Sephiroth!

3. I've seen some people from the fandom really FANON-ING the Turks as allies..really now? At this point of the game, the Turks are Villains. Just because they did not hurt the main characters it doesn't mean that they are the protagonists' friends. If Tseng was stabbed/killed, it is just a part of his job as a Turk. Why feel sorry for a team who dropped the 7th sector plate and killed Denzel's parents? There's no need.

4. The Nibelheim townspeople are the most unfortunate, yes. They are definitely victims of cause and effect, but still, reducing Sephiroth into this maniacal man killing people with no reason..is really obtuse. I'm not saying that you have to like him. But at least try to understand his POV, he has a LOT of reasons to turn bad. Some of his reasons are really close to what we, as real life humans are dealing with everyday. Grief,loneliness,depression,mental & emotional instability,not having a proper,loving upbringing,little to no social support- all of these things can break a human being.

It's pretty telling if someone in the fandom was really here for the story, or if they were here only for shipping. I'm looking at their understanding of Sephiroth,Shinra and the Turks characters as the catalyst. Rest assured I have no qualms in chain blocking people with bad takes like these. If you hate Sephiroth please refrain from giving stupid takes like these, man. I have no problem with people hating him. But I do have a problem if you tried to deviate his canon characterisation into some bastardized fanon stupidity. Y'all welcome to my blocklist.

[flowersoldier]

Sorry the Cloti cult is bullying you. It has happened since 1997 (DestinyFailed is the worst example — please research it). Oh, and thelifestream(.)net is pretty bad, too — stay strong & go to www(.)cloudandaerith(.)com if they try to manipulate you or others with lies involving “cLoUD IZ zAcK.” The original intent has always been Clerith (Amano/love points/“normally occurring” date). Most of the Cloti’s are fans through CC (retcon) & AC (not a “REAL” family). It’s no coincidence the OG & Remake fandom prefer Clerith. Same in Japan, too =^.^= 🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵 Haters gonna hate!! Keep spreadin’ that #ClerithLove 🌸🎀💒☁️🗡

I know, thanks though. I actually was into Clerith since Kingdom Hearts and only years after KH2 was I finally able to get my hands on a PS1 copy *-* Made me love them more. I was in another forum once and after I wrote a clerith thing and was brutally harassed over it I never logged in there again. It even happened in the comments of YoutubexD

But now I can only laugh at their stupidityxD I’ve heard quite a lot of bullshit Clotis try to disguise as proofxD I know the cloud&aerith site, I read through the entire thing in one goxD Oh and some clotis never even played a VII game or watched AC, they only believe what rabid clotis are telling themxD And I’m sure most of them (or all? since they’re mostly all around USA) don’t know anything about Japanese and try to spread lies that way. Or use google translater and I hope you know how ‘good’ it it at its jobxDDD (I know that because I have a friend in my Discord group studying jap and I asked her to correct the ‘translation’ someone made, as expected completely wrong)