#no wonder bludhaven got nuked

[richdickgrayson]

If the movie fight club exists in the DCuniverse, how much trouble do we think that caused for heroes?how often are Bats and Supes and all the heroes that reside over major cities breaking up attempted fight clubs and attempted terrorist attacks against credit card companies ?

One of my homies said “there’s def a warehouse in Gotham somewhere that keeps popping up on Batman’s radar because the stupid fuckimg high schoolers won’t stop beating each other into a pulp for fun. At least Dick is *polite*. I bet he scruffs them if they’re mid-fight.”

And he’s so real for that.

Thoughts?

[charlietheepicwriter7]

Finally reading "Under the Red Hood" for my story, Dick Grayson V Gotham and some notes about what exactly happens here:

Jason's helmet really is a whole ass red circle with eyes, isn't it.

There's constant internal monologue about how much Batman cares about his kids. From Alfred and from Batman.

There's a whole ass woman who I have never seen referenced before called Onyx? Who's apparently the "only other hero allowed in the whole of gotham... other than catwoman".

Bruce recognizing Jason just based on how he fights and plans is beautiful, even if bruce doesn't believe it yet.

Superman's over here flirting with Bruce, going "we could have gotten tickets to the theater if you'd called ahead 😘😘" while bruce is traveling all over the world to figure out if his baby boy might be back from the dead.

Lowkey sad that Jason doesn't have the skunk stripe. I know it was fanon that occasionally became canon, but I still like it.

Wow, this Robin!Jason flashback is really giving us good views of the scaly panties, >:P

So, during the flashback, Bruce brings up the idea that Jason has a "mean streak" in comparison to how Dick was. But it's not that Jason was "mean" and Dick "nice"--Dick has a massive temper, even if canon rarely allows him to acknowledge it--but with Dick... Everytime he was Robin, I think he was still in the mindset of "performer". There was a bit more disconnect between him and the criminals of Gotham, because the fights were more like acts. Jason performs too, but he's very personal about it. This is his city, he's taking all these crimes personally and even when he's "performing" it's still Jason Todd, while Dick's Robin is more so a mask. IDK, this is just the vibes I'm picking up.

I really love the panels after Jason blows up the meth lab. The way the colors are... it makes Jason almost look like he's teared up? It's beautiful.

Oh great, Slade's here. No wonder this things so damn long

You know what, Slade? I'm on Black Mask's side here. A nazi and a hyena man? You can find better hired help on Craigslist.

Just finished the fight, and I'm STILL on Black Mask's side. Slade, who the fuck are these losers!?

Yes, Jason baby, kill the nazi!

Jason got them Christmas presents! That's sweet!

Slade, why the FUCK were you here? Did you see Nightwing was in town and go "lol, this'll be funny"?

Black Mask really calling himself Daddy around Jason... wasn't a joke. Huh.

There are some very nice parallels after Jason reveals his identity to Bruce. Bruce was too late to stop Joker's bomb, he was too late to stop the bomb in the meth lab. Bruce was too late to stop his son from getting attacked by a supervillain, but Bruce was faster now, good job! And Bruce never killed his son's killer, and he won't kill Stephanie's killer either. It's like he keeps testing Bruce to see if he really has to go through with his plan with the Joker.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if Jason's entire beef with Black Mask was because of his part in Stephanie Brown's death.

...I don't really like the idea of Jason calling himself a zombie after Joker did it.

Jason wiped the smile off his face, goddamn! (And don't think I didn't notice how similar Joker and Jason's laughs are, comic artists. Sure, maybe that's just how cackling laughter was drawn back then, but in literature, that smells like foiling).

...THIS is when Bludhaven gets destroyed!? Really???

Also, what is this depiction of Bludhaven just... being across a river? This feels unreasonably close, why hasn't Gotham just eaten Bludhaven at this point?

IT'S A NUKE???

THEY ARE LOOKING DIRECTLY AT IT, HOW ARE THEIR EYES NOT GETTING BURNT OUT OF THEIR HEADS

I'm just realizing how many explosives there are in this series. Between the bombs the Bats use, and the bombs Jason sets up, and... what happened to bludhaven. That, kids, is what we call a theme!

Bruce really is sympathetic in this. It's subtle, which is good, I don't think anyone would have appreciated the author blaring out "BATMAN IS IN THE RIGHT, HE'S THE BEST GUY, FUCK JASON."

And Jason is getting more and more unhinged as the fight progresses.

You know, it's occurring to me that this all could have been prevented if New Jersey had the death penalty. There's no way Joker could have gotten the insanity plea so many times if they could put him in the ground for good.

...I wonder if Batman votes to reinstate the death penalty?

"But why... why on God's earth--??! Is he still alive!!??" Is just... such a good reveal. Such a good line. No wonder we're all so fixated on this character, omg.

Oh. This is why Jason thinks Batman doesn't love him.

It's the lack of reciprocation. Jason sees "killing the Joker after he killed you" as an act of love. Batman cannot provide that act, so Jason sees that refusal as proof he is unloved.

The funniest Joker's ever been:

Oh, the batarang moment. Oh no.

Oh no oh no oh no

I still feel like resurrection via Superboy punching the universe hard is still a cop-out reason why Jason's alive, but the line "Until time decided to set things right." is speaking to me.

Oh god, the buried alive scene is brutal.

Okay, so Jason came back fully sane, he definitely knew what he was doing breaking out of the coffin, but his injuries that were unhealed and getting hit by a fucking car are what caused his catatonic state. He didn't just wake up not all there, that happened because no one was looking out for him.

Okay, so 6 months dead, about a... year in a coma. It says a year for his time catatonic on the streets, then a year with Talia, still catatonic... that's three and a half years, Jason really started being the Red Hood... like what, a few weeks after he got tossed in the Pits?

...I thought the pits were green. They look gold in my version of these comics, is that normal?

EW, WHY'D SHE KISS HIM

Also, there was no brainwashing this boy, Talia literally just said "you remain avenged" and it sent Jason on this whole murder spiral, she didn't do shit

Except kiss him. which, EW

Alright, good night everybody!

[mangoisms]

alfred visits dana at the hospital too ☹️ that’s so nice. i genuinely wonder what happens to her… i think i saw something about how since bludhaven got. uh. for lack of a better word, nuked, she is presumably dead? which is just so 🫤

[mzminola]

AN ENTIRE FUCKING YEAR WITHOUT A GUARDIAN???

Oh wow. I knew about the fake uncle thing but this timeline, geez. Okay. So. Tim’s dad dies, and his stepmom is not an option. There’s maybe a few days or weeks where Tim is just kinda on his own, and then Bruce offers to adopt him, framing it as keeping him out of the foster system because Bruce is incapable of telling people he wants them around.

Tim decides to fake an uncle instead. Like full on slew of fake documents and hiring an actor for in-person stuff like talking to the school. Moves out of Gotham to Bludhaven, fights some crime with Cass. Bruce figures out his uncle is fake, praises the skills it took Tim to pull it off, and offers to help him maintain the lie instead of bringing up adoption or fostering again.

Considering that Bruce was Tim’s legal guardian when Jack was in a coma, it should be fairly straightforward to just make Bruce Tim’s foster dad again if they wanted to keep Tim out of the system without adopting him. So Bruce is making it clear that he’s perfectly willing to let Tim, a massively traumatized teenager, live on his own with nobody making sure he eats, takes care of his health, or pursues his education.

Then the whole Infinite Crisis thing happens at the same time as Under the Red Hood, Bludhaven gets nuked while the heroes are out of town, and then there’s...

A one year time skip. An entire year goes by.

And it isn’t until several issues post-timeskip that Bruce makes his offer to adopt Tim again.

Tim has gone over a year in his mid-teens of having no legal guardian, none whatsoever, while Bruce just...does jack shit. Batman continues to be Robin’s vigilante mentor/boss, and after a world tour thing Tim lives at Wayne Manor, but he still went with no legal guardian for over a year. What the fuck.

I know Tim dropped out of school so parent-teacher conferences aren’t a thing, but he still needs to go to the doctor. Who’s been signing his vaccination forms? Has Alfred just been his primary medical provider and the Bats are faking his documents?

And then for the cherry on top of Tim’s self-worth nightmare, Damian moves into the Manor three issues later. He’s...ten? I think? Tim’s friendly and Damian blows him off, threatens him, and is rude to Alfred. Bruce privately explains that he couldn’t leave Damian with Talia (and her army of man-bats).

Tim immediately wants to know “What about us?” Yeah, that’s a pretty expected question for a neglected kid that just got some stability. He wants to know if he’s gonna be expected to fend for himself again.

Bruce says “This doesn’t change anything,” followed by a lot of reasons why Damian’s life has been hard, ending with “If he is my son -- even if he’s not -- he deserves some love and my respect.”

Tim: “So let him earn it, like everybody else.” /storms off/

When I read this issue the first time around that line seemed pretty harsh. Damian's a little kid and Tim’s usually friendly even to jerks*, but in light of that timeline up there yeah, okay, that’s a totally understandable response. Bruce spent over a year leaving Tim high and dry, after Tim had been Robin for three years and saved his ass multiple times, and only just now offered to be Tim’s parent.

Like. Fucking hell. What a kick in the pants.

Congrats, Tim, everything about your experience with Batman says that you do have to earn love and respect, that he thinks it’s perfectly reasonable to let you live on your own in your mid-teens when you’ve just experienced multiple major traumas in a row, and now you’ve finally been offered a stable home.

What’s this? A kid shows up out of the blue, not only doesn’t do anything useful but is actively hostile, and Batman says he deserves love and respect?

What the fuck is Tim supposed to do with this contradiction?

No wonder he nopes the hell out when Bruce is ‘dead’ and Dick makes Damian into Robin.

*And Tim’s still nice! He doesn’t say this in front of Damian, and later he says they got off to a bad start and offers to spar! He’s freaked out about his place in the family and still tries to be nice to the kid who was rude (it does not work, Damian throws a grenade at him).

[danny-chase]

like she freaking grew and learned unlike Jason who DC keeps resetting to square 1- See you and I agree which is why I said "Its her stories and their execution" that make her a wonderful character. Like this is a girl who stopped a mans heart to teach him a lesson about the horrors of death. Who slammed a man's head into a table in a fit of grief and rage. And she is still written as a kind moral person. Like we agree characters can do wrong things and be moral.

Sure but like, everyone's morals are different so pretty much anyone can be moral depending on the standards you judge them by. Cass's morals change throughout her run and everything she does comes from a place of good intentions whether or not they're 'good' or 'bad' things. They're well defined by her upbringing and the story - they make sense for her character. While she's the protagonist and it's written from her perspective, I feel like the writers leave a lot up to the audience in terms of whether we see her actions as justified or not (a good example of this would be the case where a father kidnaps his daughter - Cass didn't make an easily "right" decision, it's something the reader has to grapple with - and so does Cass to some extent). And that's why I think her comic is so brilliant - it's inviting us to look at the complexity of life and learn with Cass, not be taught by Cass.

This isn't really what we get with Jason's comic. Before the reboot he didn't care about morals, killed prisoners en mass, tried killing Tim, shot Damian, etc. etc. He wasn't doing that because of his morals, he was doing it because he was angry. And then the reboot just said, uh he's got a moral code now, and then never really expanded on it. His comics didn't ask any meaningful or deep questions, it was just hey look at this dude and his two best friends (who they stripped of all meaningful characterization), taking on the world together, plot? pfft... there's a plot here somewhere...

Honestly i get tired of certain comic fans acting like a character (Slade, Jason, Punisher, etc.) is so special and righteous because he sticks to a moral code. Like. Have you actually thought about their moral code? Reflected on whether or not it's right or wrong? Usually not. It's a pet peeve of mine when people try to justify actions because the character has morals (ie: Jason killing people is fine, because the people he kills are criminals because of his moral code). Legit, i once saw a Slade fan try to justify him nuking Bludhaven, because the people there were bad people and like... when you're trying to justify something, that implies that you agree with the character's moral code, and that's when i start to worry - in jason's case it comes off as people thinking murder is fine as long as the victim is a criminal and that just... really rubs me the wrong way 💀

[eastonia-blog]

Let's Chat about these Reversed Aged!Robins AUs

So recently I replied to @gentlemenpaws generalask!post which said…

And I thought I would go a little into my reply to him. Because and hear me out.

I can never take reversed ages Robin headcanons and stories seriously. Without turning off my brain a little. And please, please, please just hear me out.

There is a reason why.

(TLDR at the bottom of this long post)

1) This is the most important reason. Say it with me. THERE IS NO ROBIN WITHOUT DICK GRAYSON.

Think about all other ‘sidekick’ or 'junior partner’ characters. With the exception of maybe Speedy, what are their names and costumes? Aqualad, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Super Girl, Super Boy, Bat Girl, Miss Martian... You know, the famous ones? The ones that all based their costumes in echo of their mentors (and yes, I’m including Roy Harper here, Speedy’s costume is a mirror of Green Arrow’s - in red).

So why doesn’t Batman’s apprentice call himself Batboy? Why is his design so divergent from Batman’s? (Okay I understand there’s other reasons but I’m trying to stay in universe/lore here). Depending on the continuity, when Barbara Gordon/Betty Kane became Batgirl she followed the trend. Robin’s identity although associated with the Bat, can stand alone without context.

Why Robin? Why the traffic lights? Something that has been shown time and time again (despite continuity differences and all) is that Robin was Dick’s pet name, from Mary Grayson, his mum. Again depending on the continuity, Mary Grayson called Dick Robin because:-

1)  He was “...always bobbin’ along.” (Pre-Flashpoint Robin: Year One)

Interesting because it could either refer to his skill in acrobatics or a tendency to get underfoot because of his curiousity.

2) Born on the first day of Spring. 

Or...

 3) Just as a tease because he just really, really loved the stories of Robin Hood.

The traffic light colouration he chose for his costume, even the design of his costume? Well if you take a look at most of the Dick Grayson origin stories (Pre-Flashpoint: Robin Year One, Batman Year Three. Post-Rebirth: Batman #54 just to name a couple examples) the Grayson aerialist costume is... Red, Green and Yellow. The proportions of the colours and presence of a cape vary but traffic lights are Grayson colours.

Robin was Dick Grayson’s tribute to his dead family.*

*Part of the reason why Dick got so hurt that Bruce gave Robin away to Jason was because Bruce forgot that Robin was not his to give. This is why the other Pre-Flashpoint comics had Dick give Tim his blessing to become Robin. And then outright have Dick give the R to Damian. Jason eventually got Dick’s blessings but by that point, the relationship was never going to start from the best place.

2) Damian as the first 'apprentice’ would not work. Why? BRUCE WOULD NOT HAVE SURVIVED LONG ENOUGH. (I can hear all the cries of ’But he’s Batman!’ ring out).

Dick and Bruce met super early into Bruce’s career as Batman.

Remember how pre-Batman Bruce went about as a generic vigilante without a moniker or anything? And got his butt kicked so hard by the Gotham streets that it took a bat crashing through a window to convince him to try again?

Pre-Robin Batman was characterised by one thing:- Recklessness. He knew sooner or later Gotham was going to claim his life and that he would probably be going sooner rather than later.

He spent a lot of time recovering in those days. Maybe more than he did catching lowlifes or solving crimes.

And then everything changed when the Flying Graysons fell.

The crime that touched Dick mirrored the crime that affected Bruce. (It’s actually pretty interesting from a meta standpoint. The Waynes died in a circle of light - under a Park Row streetlight and the Graysons paralleled that with the spotlight remaining on them long after they hit the ground.)

And Bruce looked into the eyes of little 8-10 year-old Dick Grayson, and saw himself. But more than that, he (Bruce) saw an opportunity to change things for him (Dick). So that Dick would not end up like him.

(Want to know a cool thing? The reason why Dick’s relationship with Bruce is different to the approach Bruce took to Jason, Tim and Damian? Age difference. Bruce is about 14-18 years older than Dick. Putting him in that weird spot where you could simultaneously be a teen parent or an older sibling. Bruce has a more Older-Brother-Promoted-to-Parent relationship with Dick than father-son. It’s why in the Rebirth Nightwing vs Hush Prelude to the Wedding issue, Dick thought he could be a candidate for Best Man).

This is also the reason why I love Dick’s and Damian’s relationship so much is because it directly parallels Bruce’s and his. I don’t quite know what the age difference is post-Rebirth (and I tend to outright ignore the New 52 at times) but since Rebirth tends to mirror Pre-Flashpoint more than not, I think the age difference between Dick and Damian is about... 14-16 years? Again, simultaneously a teen parent and older sibling.

This is also why I don’t think a Damian as the first Dark Squire would work, because Bruce would not be in a good place to help out a child. Nor will there be the same connection that there was between him and Dick. Damian being first would probably ruin Batman for ever taking on someone in the ‘apprentice’ role.

So after Bruce (eventually, inevitably) takes Dick in, Bruce is forced to realise that he has to be more careful because he has to be there for Dick.

This is when Bruce fully embraces the amount of Crazy Prepared he’d need to be to be.

And then Dick (at 8-10 years-old! Seriously we talk about the amount of detective skill Tim has to figure out Batman’s and Robin’s identities... But we don’t talk about the amount of charisma, courage and will it takes to out-stubborn the Batman???) makes his way onto the streets (and Bruce can’t stop him so he has to help him). So now what does Bruce have to do?

There is a rule medics and first responders have to follow: Protect yourself in order to save others.

Bruce is no longer allowed to accept dying as an option (until Dick is old enough to take care of himself). This forces Batman to work situations to his advantage so Batman and Robin can both come home.

Basically, Dick made Batman evolve into the Batman we know and expect today.

Batman’s relationship with the police significantly improved after Dick Grayson debuted as Robin. Batman’s relationship with other Justice Leaguers improved after Dick Grayson debuted as Robin. Batman’s relationship with Wonder Woman and especially Superman/Clark Kent improved after Robin.

So let’s remove Dick from the lineup and stick him at the end as the youngest then. And... put Damian as the eldest son... that’s... not going to work.

Hey Damian. Where did you go?

Remember the timeline. Without Dick as the eldest Bruce can continue to be reckless. Batman was a suicide mission until Robin stepped in.

No Dick? Batman continues to be reckless. Reckless Batman? Dead Batman. The Al Ghuls and the League of Shadows/Assassins? Probably would have nuked Gotham and Bludhaven. Also Damian Wayne will not have his male genetic donor because... Without Dick Grayson as the eldest son/brother? Batman would not have survived to catch the eye of the League of Shadows/Assassins.

It is necessary for Dick to be the ‘eldest son’ otherwise the rest of Bat!Lore will not fall into place. Dick was Bruce’s more traditionally heroic foil from the start without which we would have a dead Bruce Wayne before Batman could take off. 

TLDR:

Robin was created as Dick’s Tribute to his dead family. If Dick wasn’t the oldest - Batman’s partner (if he would even have one!) would NOT be called Robin.

Bruce and Dick met very early into his career as Batman. If they didn’t meet Bruce would have carried on his reckless path and possibly DIED before Damian could even be ‘conceived’.

And that, my friends, is the tea.

Tagging @theflyingwonder as inspiration of this particular meta

[fantastic-nonsense]

Yes, I’m referring to the Teen Titans. The thing about the Teen Titans is that it’s one of the largest hero groups in the DCU. Most heroes end up in (or working with) one of the Justice League groups or one of the Titans groups at some point in their hero career, and various members of the Titans have “graduated up” into the Justice League over time. There’s a stable set of “core” members, but they have so many ancillary members it’s kind of ridiculous (seriously: so many). The “main” Titans are the ones that generally operate out of Titans Tower, but there’s satellite teams like “Titans East” and “Titans West”.

There’s also been several iterations of the team over the years; the most famous lineups are the “Fab Five” original members, the New Teen Titans (aka, the ones in the cartoon+some others like Kid Flash and Wonder Girl), Tim Drake’s Teen Titans (comprised of the ‘Core Four’ plus a semi-stable rotating roster that included members of Dick’s team), and the DC Rebirth Titans lineup (the current one that Damian Wayne is on). Occasionally, DC brings the “original squad” back together every so often to do joint missions, and they generally call that book “Titans” rather than “Teen Titans” since said group is now all grown up.

So is Bludhaven gone or still around? 

Bludhaven got nuked (more or less...it wasn’t technically a nuke but the effects were essentially the same) by The Society during the events of Infinite Crisis in 2005/2006. It was still around but got declared a massive disaster area and there were like...multiple storylines surrounding Brother Eye and OMAC and Apokalips/Darkseid nonsense and I don’t even know what, it’s been a long time since I’ve read those comics. The mid-2000s was a dark time in comics, especially for the Batfamily, and I lowkey try to forget about a lot of it. As of 2011 and Flashpoint rebooting the universe, Bludhaven is back, back to normal, and is just fine. 

How the hell does Damian get to go world wide and Tim? Isn’t Tim like the CEO or something of Wayne Enterprise/Drake Industries? So wouldn’t he have to be around more? When the heck did Tim sleep?!?!

Damian went worldwide for a very specific story arc in the 2015 Son of Batman comic; normally, he operates a) in Gotham, with his dad and the Batfamily, b) wherever the League of Assassins and his grandfather/mother are stirring up nonsense, or most recently c) wherever the Teen Titans need to be.

The tl;dr on SoB is that after his death and resurrection, Damian basically reassessed his life (including his childhood being raised and trained by Ra’s and Talia). A part of that training included spending a year doing seemingly impossible tasks around the world to prove himself “worthy” (called The Year of Blood), so in SoB he basically went off on his own to atone for his ‘sins’ and set things right (he called this the Year of Atonement). Sidenote: SoB is also definitely the best comic DC put out between 2011 and 2016.

As for Tim....well, Tim’s a difficult question, because the answer depends on whether you’re talking pre-reboot or post-reboot. Pre-reboot...yes, he is CEO of Wayne Enterprises, as of the 2009 Red Robin series. But that was after he went on a depression-fueled globetrotting mission to prove Bruce wasn’t actually dead after the events of Final Crisis (he was right....eventually):

He properly took over as CEO two story arcs down the line in ‘The Hit List’:

Post-reboot, Tim is not in charge of Wayne Enterprises and is currently swanning off with Young Justice, having multi-dimensional adventures, and being happy with his friends for the first time that DC’s let him do so since 2011.

Damian…isn’t he like 11-15? Or is he older? Also, doesn’t he need to be around cuz of school? 

Damian’s age fluctuates depending on the comic. Pre-2011, he was 10 (consistently). Post-reboot, they’ve allowed him to age. I think??? he’s now 13. I’m not positive, though. He’s not really...in school? He was briefly at Gotham Academy but got expelled, and there was a shortlived period where he went to school alongside Jon Kent in Metropolis a year or so back. He’s basically does homeschool+online school at the moment, I think.

Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t the newest comics for Red Hood have Jason outside Gotham? Is he even legally alive again? Is Damian (they are the only two that died, died of the kids correct?)

*big shrug* I’m not actively reading Red Hood and the Outlaws, so I couldn’t tell you for certain re: being legally alive, but yes: he’s left Gotham as of recently.

The Dead Robins Club consists of Jason, Steph, and Damian. Dick faked his death to go undercover at Spyral and everyone thought Tim had died for a bit (he was just teleported and held prisoner for a bit; it was a wild time), so they don’t count.

One last thing if you don’t mind. I know Dick probably gets money from Bruce but does he still work as a police officer? How though if he’s gone so much?

I mean, currently? Lol no, DC is still pretending like anyone wants to hear the adventures of Ric Grayson, resident Bludhaven taxi driver who refuses to be a vigilante. Dick hasn’t been a cop since the mid-2000s (out of universe), and he was gone a lot less during that time period (the most significant length of time he was gone was in the aftermath of the No Man’s Land crisis and the Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive storyline).

So question for Nightwing/Batman fans:

Is Dick mostly in Bludhaven or Gotham? Cuz, at least from fanfics I read, he's barely ever in Bludhaven. If he's there it's usually with a family member or the story is set there.

But Canon wise. Bludhaven or Gotham or both equally?

Also what about the others? Are they still Gotham or some other city? I think Cass is Hong Kong but I might be wrong.