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batsplat · 3 months ago

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so in assen 2004 comms talk about how valentino helped melandri with riding yamaha A Lot, and how they are two great friends. and indeed those two have known each other since childhood/or at least their teens right? (seen a lot of their photos w matching terrible dye jobs) but then fast forward to 2010 and melandri is going full conspiracy theorist about the freaking chair affghhhkgjk. like what happened here? is it any interesting or is it like mostly one sided bitterness from melandri or something. like that can’t really be about 2005 season for vale bc come on melandri wasn’t his main rival that year.

even if it’s not interesting feud or drama wise it is another friendship that vale had (and unlike w sete vale&melandri go way back) that eventually fell apart as a result of competing in motogp…….hm

yeah, we don't actually have a great sense of what happened there! it's funny the coldness seems to have crept in during the 2005 season specifically, because I'm very much with you here on the 'come on valentino why bother' stance - melandri was aggressively not a proper title contender that season and really not even the main on-track rival... but actually I do think this fits in rather nicely within my sete thesis, which we'll get to. the subsequent public bitterness has been entirely one-sided, with melandri occasionally saying something kinda mean-spirited about valentino in recent years and valentino... not doing any of that

anyhow, they definitely WERE close, which was hammered home not just through repeated mentions by the commentators but also when you read the columns he was dictating every race for mat oxley in his early years. here, from his 250cc days:

mugello 1998

I wasn’t so confident before Mugello because while I was at home I played football and lost, I played tennis and lost, I rode motocross and lost. The only thing I won was minicars – I am the champion! We got beaten in a five-a-side soccer match, six-one, then a friend beat me at tennis, six-one, then Marco [Melandri] beat me at motocross. I’m always fighting with Marco on motocross but he’s faster than me. I’m getting better though – at the start of the year he’d beat me by five or six seconds, now it’s only one or two. I have much fear when I ride motocross because I’m not good at flying. We don’t go crazy; it would be stupid to get hurt doing that. Motocross is great for my muscle power though. I don’t go the gym much in the summer because I want to be outside, so motocross is perfect.

paul ricard 1998

As usual, my break between Mugello and France was full of battles with my friends! First we played football and my team won on penalties. I scored the winner. I never make a mistake from the penalty spot. Next day I did motocross with Melandri and he beat me, as usual, but we had some very funny races. Then I raced with Melandri again, but with electric cars. He’s bought a Honda NSX – it’s fast. Before I left for France we raced minimoto at a track in Rimini. There were about 20 of us: me, Melandri and a load of fast, young Italian riders. We had a lot of really crazy battles. Lots of fun! I don’t think it’s dangerous because the bikes aren’t so fast, maybe 60kp/h. I had some big fights with Melandri, we hit each other all the time – BANG! BANG! BANG! – and we crashed together maybe two or three times.

madrid 1998

I’m doing motocross three times a week now to help build up strength, but Melandri is still faster than me, so I’ve started practising in secret. I get dressed into my motocross gear, then ring him to tell him we don’t need to ride today, then do a few hours riding in secret! Soon I will be faster than him! Anyway, I beat him in minimoto before we went to Jarama.

assen 1998

“Hooray, finally I am first on a 250! It was the day of the teenager at Assen, the Italian teenager! I was so happy when my friend Melandri won the 125 race, so it was fantastic to go out and win the 250. A perfect day, except Marco and me couldn’t party on Saturday night, because I flew home to celebrate with my friends, while he stayed at Assen. I guess we’ll make sure we have a beer together before Donington.

donington 1998

We had our own paddock World Cup at Donington on Thursday, which was really shit, because we played three games and lost three games. I played in the Italian team with Melandri, Boscoscuro, Scalvini, Locatelli, Borsoi and Carpani. First we played the Suzuki 500 team and lost, then we played Team Rainey and lost, and finally we played Dorna, and lost. Dorna were all Spanish and very good. But the games weren’t so much fun because the pitch was tiny and really bumpy. Last year we had the paddock World Cup at Imola on a full-size pitch, and I scored twice. Nice!

sachsenring 1998

Now we have a four-week holiday before Brno, but I’m going to spend most of my time on the beach near my home – it’s sunny and the girls are nice, that’s all I need! But I am going away for one week – a racers’ holiday with Loris Reggiani, Roberto Locatelli and Melandri. We’re going to Tunisia to mess about with jet skis and fast boats. Should be a lot of fun!

sepang 1999

The winter was fun. Usually I don’t like the winter because it’s too cold, but where I live, near the Adriatic coast, there are so many people in the summer. That didn’t used to be a problem, but now everyone recognises me, so it’s Rossi! Rossi! Rossi! all the time. I don’t like it! I spent a lot of time with my friends, as that’s when I’m happiest. We went skiing a few times, a big gang of us. Mad! Snowboarding is more fashionable nowadays but I’m faster on skis, so it’s better! Melandri came with me once, he’s my best mate in the paddock, plus Alessandro Brannetti, a new Italian 125 guy.

mugello 1999

Before Mugello I spent some time at home, riding my 250 road bike and going motocrossing. I have a new motocross bike at home, but I can’t tell you what it is, because it’s not an Aprilia! But it’s a lot of fun on the new motocross track I’ve built behind a friend’s house. I dug the ground myself with a JCB digger we hired. I have designed the track to be safe for me, because modern motocross tracks have near-vertical take-off jumps, which are very dangerous if you don’t have good control in the air. And I don’t! So I’ve built low and fast jumps which I can take in fourth or fifth gear and be safe. Big fun! I’m looking forward to racing my friend Melandri, who hasn’t been doing motocross since he broke his wrist in Malaysia.

sachsenring 1999

Now we have a four-week holiday, hooray! All I really want to do is sleep. During the break last year I went to Tunisia with a bunch of friends like Melandri, but all I want to do now is stay home and rest. My home is near a holiday resort anyway, near the Adriatic Sea, but to be honest I don’t like the sea so much. I prefer snow...”

argentina 1999

I already have some plans for the winter. The World Championship may have finished, but I already have two more races over the next few weeks. No rest yet! First is the X Race at Misano. This is a special event for GP and world Superbike riders. I’m racing go-karts, motocross and cars with [Carl] Fogarty, Melandri, Capirossi, Harada and a lot of other guys. They ran this event for the first time last year and I won it. It’s only fun of course but I want to win again because winning is always important. Then at the end of November I’m doing a car rally at Monza.

so yeah, clearly close buddies! I'm sure there's more out there about their friendship, but I've never been that invested in digging into the details lol. about the collapse of the relationship... well, there's this from the barker biography, which kinda lumps melandri into a generic section about valentino's rivals:

Marco Melandri, who had been a close friend of Rossi's for years before he started winning races in 2005, noted the same shift in attitude: 'When I started to race well with him he changed a lot. When we were growing up we were very good friends. Valentino plays games with everybody... the way he talked to the media - he tries to never say something good about you.'

in 2007, after valentino had finally lost a title fight (and was in the process of losing another), there's another oxley column where a few key figures like his teammate edwards, his rival hayden, and his crew chief jb were asked about what made valentino so good. and valentino's crew chief jb was kind enough to give his own take on the melandri dynamic:

“He only uses mind games when people make a serious challenge, then he pulls out that extra tool in his armoury, which he did with Max, with Sete and to a lesser degree with Marco. Then there’s Loris, who is also serious challenge, but there’s a different understanding between them, there’s a respect. When I first worked with Valentino he was mates with Marco. Whenever there was a dinner or a party, Marco was always there. When Marco came to MotoGP it was still fine, then when there was any sort of a challenge their friendship cooled off a bit."

and then by 2010 you get melandri be like. full yellow chair conspiracy theorist. now, he also mentions how his own celebrations were received, and we do actually have jorge himself give his review of said celebrations a few years earlier (x, x):

I don't really have a point here, I just think it's funny

whereas from valentino's side.... well, there's really not much. his autobiography goes until the end of 2004 and is published in 2005 - so if melandri was already a 'proper' rival when the book was finalised, it will have been a very recent thing... but there's literally one reference to melandri in the whole thing, and it's something generic to do with the yamaha's development. valentino himself has said pretty much fuck all about this friendship falling apart. it's a bit frustrating because... when melandri says that valentino tries never to say anything good about you in the media - look, that's probably referring to something substantive, but we don't really know what exactly valentino supposedly said. we just have to take melandri at his word.... when you go that far back, it's a lot trickier to hunt down specifics if it's not a big news story, if there's not been a major controversy

you do have this from mid 2005:

"No. I think this is not true," replied Rossi, when asked if he deliberately avoided friendships with his closest rivals. "With Melandri, when this year he start to go fast, especially the Italian journalists, try to put some bad things between us - to make fight like what happened between Biaggi and Doohan. "But I go to speak to Melandri after Shanghai, on the podium, because I say one thing and the Italian journalists they modify and say to him another thing - and also the same journalists come to me and make the same. "I know Marco from minibikes when we were friends - we've been friends for more than ten-years - so I try to keep a good relationship because I don't like a bad relationship with anybody," he insisted. "For sure I have had a bad relationship with Biaggi and Gibernau but I don't think that is the right result."

now, according to the article, there were already rumours at the time that the relationship had grown colder that year. which is mainly funny insofar as valentino had quite literally double melandri's points - and the latter still hadn't won a race. again. what's the point

which, well. I do think jb's mention of capirossi is kinda interesting, as another rival valentino had known forever and one who wasn't like. dramatically less likely than melandri to end up a serious challenger to valentino, beyond being a bit older already. jb mentions they have an "understanding", a "respect" between the two of them... it's also maybe worth bringing in what hayden, the man who had actually managed to beat him in 2006, had to say about valentino for the same oxley piece:

“I can’t say it’s just his approach that makes him good. Some guys take their racing real serious, others are really laid back, it’s whatever works for that rider. But regardless of whatever he does he definitely gets around the track fast, that’s what’s most important. “One thing I noticed when we were team-mates is that he looks like it’s fun, fun, fun, he definitely cuts up a lot, but once you’re in the garage that dude is so serious, so focused. Everything seems perfect, right down to the windscreen sticker and the colour of his boots. He doesn’t overlook anything and I think that’s a big part of it. “More than anything it’s the racer in him that makes him so strong, it’s obvious the guy wants to win. He’s got a lot of natural talent but I know a lot of guys with natural talent and it gets some guys in trouble. It’s the whole package that makes him strong: the desire, the focus, the talent. “I think sometimes maybe he’s not as laidback as he comes across. He knows what to say and when to say it to make it look like things aren’t really getting to him. He knows how to play it, on the bike and off the bike. “It’s hard to say what he’s like with mind games because I can only comment on how he’s been with me and I’ve never seen him play any games with me, especially last year when he was taking chunks out of my points lead. The guy didn’t really change, maybe he just knew that I wasn’t going to roll over. Maybe some of the guys he can break down mentally, maybe he knew it wasn’t going to get to me. “Him and JB (Jeremy Burgess) haven’t won all those titles just through his riding, they know how to play people, they know how to play their cards, when to show their hand, when not to show their hand. I don’t think he plays as many games as other guys – you don’t need to play a lot of games when you can ride like that.“ "On track sure he’s aggressive but he’s totally clean and he definitely has a lot of tactics. He knows when he wants to race just one guy, how to separate groups, how to slow down. Like Phillip Island in 2005 I was on him the whole race and he eventually saw that he wasn’t going to get away, so he slowed down, brought the next group up to us to get me caught up with them, then tried to make another break. He’s got a lot of race craft. “I’d say his biggest strength is that he can adapt. If the tyres go off and he needs to slide he can slide, when the bike need to be ridden in line he can ride in line, he can definitely adapt to situations. I can’t say there’s one area of his riding where he just kills guys. It’s not just braking or corner speed or this or that, I’d just say that when he’s in a rhythm and putting those laps down he can break a guy. Like at Jerez this year he broke Pedrosa by about half a tenth a lap, he just kept putting those laps down, riding on that edge. He doesn’t ride 95 per cent, he rides on that razor edge for a long time. “I don’t know about weaknesses, it’s hard for me to point out a guy’s weakness when he’s won all those championships. In fact I’m not going to say he’s got any weak points because I don’t need to motivate the guy! That’s why I don’t want to say anything negative, I’m a big believer in not motivating these guys anymore, that’s why I don’t talk trash.”

like, you do have to bring up the context that valentino had four title rivals in 2006 - melandri, hayden, capirossi and dani - and he really only seems to have cooled off towards one of them. I'm not saying it's melandri's fault! I think it's more... hm, it's a bit telling, isn't it? competitively, there's not really any reason for melandri to be singled out in any way. I mean, you'll note he didn't win the title - and the guy who did explicitly says he didn't think valentino was fucking with him. valentino says in 2005 that he's made an active effort to not let the melandri relationship get worse... which could be true insofar as he didn't want any drama, but clearly he did allow that friendship to grow cold. why do that? is melandri really such a threat? I feel like if valentino said something particularly egregious about melandri, we would have some kind of a record of it - but let's say he was just mildly bitchy about the guy. you'd want to take him to one side and tell him 'dude, you really needn't bother', right? like, no offence, but is THIS guy worth it?

except. well. it is a little interesting that in the immediate aftermath of 2004, valentino had another friend of his (who he had considerably more history with than his last title rival) head over to honda gresini, turn into a more serious challenger... and valentino went. 'hm, yeah, maybe let's not do that again.' whether consciously or subconsciously, he does seem to have drawn back from melandri a hell of a lot quicker than he did from sete - and let's not forget that sete was actually beating him in dramatic last lap duels, which melandri extremely did not do. now, look, of course there COULD have been some sort of private spat here that nobody involved ever talked about... or maybe valentino just decided for completely unrelated reasons he'd had enough of melandri. but isn't it just. a little noteworthy. that when it comes to the 2006 title rivals, valentino is on good terms with all of them, who he seemingly does not piss off too badly with any sort of off-track antics... except melandri. his coldest relationship is with his childhood friend. one might conclude that melandri was the one who had the most power to hurt valentino, if he had been allowed to remain close. one could argue that there the sete rivalry marked a bit of a turning point in terms of how valentino approached his rivalries, that after this point he really didn't want another rivalry that could affect him in the same way. one might point out that some of the details of the melandri rivalry sure feel like they could be used to back up this framing

all that being said. what valentino is doing here is... well, it's basically fine, isn't it. everyone and their dog agrees it's tough to remain friends with your actual close rivals. jb describes it as their friendship 'cooling off', which is also the kind of thing that can just... eventually happen with childhood friends, even when you don't have pressures of competition warping interpersonal dynamics. there's not all that much to suggest valentino was massively treating melandri differently from any of his other major rivals at the time - it's just that his prior relationship had been closer and melandri seems to have taken the shift poorly. given how little of a paper trail there is, it feels like any mind games on valentino's part were generally on the subtler side, perhaps just the occasional snide comment or insinuation or ambiguously shady line that never made it to an article we can still access nowadays. more in line with what nicky "I don't think he plays as many games as other guys" hayden is describing: how valentino knows how to play his cards without necessarily escalating it into full out war. when melandri's talking about the rivalry, at times he does seem less annoyed by anything valentino actually did than he is by the media pressure of being an italian rival of valentino's, of being subjected to a more hostile media environment tan valentino, etc etc. after a certain point, valentino was often a passive beneficiary of his own successes in that regard. it's not like he's telling the italian journalists to put extra pressure on melandri... but he's also hardly going to complain

in general, the timing of it does have a certain charm to it as useful evidence for my great big 'the sete experience changed how valentino approached his rivalries' thesis, but I'm always a tad wary of analyses that flatten valentino's rivalries and by extension valentino by treating the patterns of behaviour in each as identical. it's also worth pointing out that... well, melandri isn't exactly a neutral source here, and his 2010 great big yellow chair theory does maybe suggest his resentment was getting in the way of his judgement where valentino was concerned. in the end, people didn't enjoy melandri's celebrations as much as melandri would have liked. and at some point in 2005, valentino apparently decided he didn't like this guy's vibe any more. c'est la vie

#trying to find a diplomatic way of saying I never exactly got the impression melandri was the sharpest tool in the shed #and I failed which is why I'm putting it in the tags #idt jorge has ever managed to say anything as quietly devastating as the lines “but he never managed to make it as funny”#and “but the chair was green”. like it's so understated so un-jorge but he randomly struck that man stone cold dead. twice #jb's such a fun presence he's so matter of fact about it. yeah fair enough my boy will occasionally crank out the mind games if he has to #very target-oriented man. he's basically fine with anything if he thinks it'll help valentino win - from partying to mind games #this is why I still stand by my thesis he would've been a positive influence in 2015 and told valentino to just. cut it off occasionally #all this pit board faffing about he would've put a stop to y'know. plus you've got to keep the mind games productive #//#brr brr #batsplat responds #this says more about my own competitive impulses than anything else but I am. so aggressively fine with how vale handled this relationship #if it helps you to not be friends with a guy to beat him then... don't be friends with him...? dude none of my business that's the job #the biography is so LAZY on this like yes I get you maybe don't have the space for the psychological deep dive here #but if you're just throwing together a quote from sete and melandri and casey and call it a day it's a bit. well these are different things #character flaw this character flaw that well this is a Sport. we are here to Win. if it helps him win that's the main thing innit #clown tag

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