#nettles and marilda of hull

[ride-thedragon]

Nettles as a contrast to Addam

Nettles as a character diametrically opposed to Rhaenyra

Nettles as an Alys Parallel

Nettles as an Aemond Parallel

Nettles as a Daemon reimagining

Nettles as a Marilda of Hull parallel

Nettles as a Rhaena counterpart

Nettles as a Dany Parallel and Counterpart

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

HOTD: No you can't have Nettles. Or Marilda of Hull. Or Black Aly. Or Sabitha Frey. Or Sara Snow. You can have a bit of Jeyne Arryn but only if she hates Targs now. No you can't have Jessamyn Redfort. No you can't have Sylvenna Sand-

HOTD: Baela and Rhaena may appear from time to time but don't expect them to be main characters - don't be greedy. You have two whole black women - you're lucky we didn't merge them into one.

HOTD: Rhaenyra's a lunatic now btw. Because DID YOU KNOW when a Targaryen is born the Gods flip a-

HOTD: BUT don't worry! Everyone's favourite slavers, the Triarchy, is now led by a lesbian!

[thevelaryons]

I’ve always found it interesting that of the lowborn/bastard women in the DotD, Marilda is the only one who doesn’t get slandered and insulted in the Westerosi history books.

Speaking specifically about the women who were rumored to have had affairs with noblemen, the women (Sara Snow/Alys Rivers/Nettles) in particular get derogatory descriptions for various reasons. The men they are linked to all either die or are unable to do anything about the rumors (Sara: her rumored lover Jace dies and her brother Cregan is far away in the North when those rumors become a thing in the South years later/Alys: her rumored lover Aemond dies and her son is obviously too young to do anything about the insults people are saying about his mother/Nettles: her rumored lover Daemon dies). Regardless of whether any of the rumors were true or not, it's still the women in the relationships who were described in a negative manner. Even men like Aemond or Daemon don't get as slandered, despite their more controversial actions.

Sara may or may not have existed (the fact that her existence alone is doubted speaks for itself) but in the history books she is described as an "unwashed" bastard. Even the fact she was a virgin at the time of her affair with Jace is called into question. Alys gets descriptors like "slattern" and "cow". She is reviled as a seductress and witch who would sacrifice her own children. Nettles gets insulted as well, both by characters around her and the maesters/septons recording the histories. Beyond the classism, there is also a racial angle to the insults with her skin colour always being at the forefront when she gets called "dirty" and "creature". It’s unfortunate but Westerosi society is unfair to women, especially those of a lower social class, and so they do often have to rely on the men in their lives, whether that’s a male lover/husband, their father, brother(s) or son(s) as a source of protection. Characters like Sara/Alys/Nettles don't get that protection.

Then you get to Marilda's descriptions in the book, and it's completely clean. Not a single insult is uttered against her despite her supposed involvement with two different Velaryon men. Whether her affair was with Corlys or Laenor, it occurred at the time when they were married men. Laenor is dead by the time when he's claimed to be the father of Marilda's sons. But Corlys is alive and well. Not to mention, he's a very well respected figure in Westerosi society. That being said, I can’t see Corlys doing any major PR control here since he does not have the means to do so.

Alyn, however, could ensure his mother did not get negative remarks. He's the one said to have fostered close ties to the Citadel and a positive relationship with the Faith. On more than one occasion, he was anointed by the High Septon himself, which is something that's typically reserved for the King or his Kingsguard. So I think Alyn might’ve used that influence to his favor.

While Alyn does seem like the type who doesn’t care much about what others think of him, he clearly respects his mother so I doubt he would want her to have a bad reputation. Even concerning the rumors of Alyn's potential affairs, the maesters are somewhat dismissive about them and call the rumors "unreliable". They don't give much credence to what third parties are saying on such matters. As for Alyn's mother, she is spoken of with nothing but respect and even flattery at times.

History is truly written by the victors.

[acewithapencil]

Meeting of the dragonseeds (1/2)

[bohemian-nights]

Since we don’t really know what happened to Nettles' mother(I can’t picture her just abandoning her so she’s passed on in my mind), I need Marilda of Hull to take Nettles under her arms and embrace her like the daughter she’s never had.

[claudiatherelentless]

Ok but I SWEAR TO GOD theres a brief clip of a Black Woman with Dark Hair watching a Dragon fly past her in the teaser and I'm screaming is that Nettles or Marilda of Hull? WHO ARE YOU?

*edit*

BAM! NAME THAT QUEEN!

[jacaela]

Of all people, these two idiots decided to make Jace out to be a hater of the idea of ​​bastards having dragons, and a smallfolk's hater. He always had good relationship with his mother, nobles and commoners. He was the one who came up with the idea of ​​putting bastards on dragons, not Mysaria. Jace is so good that dumb and dumber 2.0 decided to completely dismantle his character, they will give his characterization to the tent boy.

Not all those who came forward in answer to the prince’s call were seeds, nor even the sons or grandsons of seeds. A score of the queen’s own household knights offered themselves as dragonriders, amongst them the Lord Commander of her Queensguard, Ser Steffon Darklyn, along with squires, scullions, sailors, men-at-arms, mummers, and two maids. “The Sowing of the Seeds,” Munkun names the triumphs and tragedies that ensued (crediting the notion to Jacaerys himself, not Mushroom). That Addam and Alyn were dragonseed no man who looked upon them could doubt, though their mother steadfastly refused to name their father. Only when Prince Jacaerys put out the call for new dragonriders did Marilda at last break her silence, claiming both boys were the natural sons of the late Ser Laenor Velaryon. None dared name her liar, however…for it was Laenor’s own father, Lord Corlys himself, who brought the boys to Prince Jacaerys for the Sowing. Having outlived all of his children and suffered the betrayal of his nephews and cousins, the Sea Snake seemed more than eager to accept these newfound grandsons. Not long after Addam of Hull had proved himself by flying Seasmoke, Lord Corlys went so far as to petition Queen Rhaenyra to remove the taint of bastardy from him and his brother. When Prince Jacaerys added his voice to the request, the queen complied. Addam of Hull, dragonseed and bastard, became Addam Velaryon, heir to Driftmark. Yet none of these losses were felt so deeply as that of Jacaerys Velaryon, Prince of Dragonstone and heir to the Iron Throne. It is written that when the Sea Snake was congratulated on his victory, the old man said, “If this be victory, I pray I never win another.” The girl Nettles did not share their celebrations. She had flown with the others, fought as bravely, burned and killed as they had, but her face was black with smoke and streaked with tears when she returned to Dragonstone.

Though his fifteenth nameday was still half a year away, Prince Jacaerys had proved himself a man, and a worthy heir to the Iron Throne.

[goodqueenaly]

Let’s give Team Black the best case scenario where they win the war uncontested and there are no betrayals by any dragonseeds- where do you think Nettles would fit in the regime after the war? Ulf & Hugh get to be knights and have holdings while Addam is taken under Corlys’s wing, but Nettles is now a (presumably) non Valyrian lowborn dragonriding female- she’s kind of a conundrum for the powers that be.

Jace’s call to action is gendered- “…vowing that any man who could master a dragon would be granted lands and riches and dubbed a knight. His sons would be ennobled, his daughters wed to lords, and he himself would have the honor of fighting beside the Prince of Dragonstone against the pretender Aegon Il Targaryen and his treasonous supporters.”

Do you think the plan could have been marriage as opposed to knighthood for Nettles? But then that introduces the sticky situation of essentially giving dragons to other noble houses. I thought maybe Alyn (assuming Addam survived in this scenario), but I’m not sure.

(Obvious preface that this is not about That Other Show and anyone using this to talk about That Other Show is getting blocked.)

You ask an interesting question, because Nettles very clearly stood apart from the other non-Targaryen dragonriders in ways that I think would have left her without an obvious place even in a world where the black faction was victorious. Addam of Hull (and, by extension, his dragonless brother Alyn) fit most comfortably in the black faction’s political calculus: as the acknowledged bastardborn “grandsons” (really sons) of the Lord of the Tides, helpfully introduced just after that same Lord Velaryon had lost his designated male heir, Marilda’s sons could follow the same path as so many aristocratic Westerosi bastards before them (including knighthoods, lordships, and aristocratic marriages); moreover, as very evidently Valyrian descendants (with one riding a Velaryon dragon, no less), these boys could be logically accepted as Valyrian-blooded dragonriders. While neither Hugh Hammer nor Ulf the White displayed so open a connection to any such Valyrian heritage, their lifetime residence on Dragonstone and seemingly “natural” bond with their respective dragons (not to mention Ulf’s silvery hair) allowed for a satisfactory narrative which cast them as dragonseeds, ancillary dragonriding scions of House Targaryen akin, if not specifically equivalent, to other royal and aristocratic bastards. While it doesn’t appear Rhaenyra had specific careers, so to speak, in mind for either Hugh or Ulf - both were knighted and given small holdings seemingly only after the Rosby and Stokeworth inheritance dispute - their identification as male dragonseeds could, to some extent, smooth their transition into a level of aristocratic life for them within the black faction. 

However, where could Nettles fit in this socio-political universe? Nettles’ scheme to ride Sheepstealer did not simply demonstrate her cleverness (though it certainly did) - it also provided Nettles with a unique, indeed perhaps revolutionary, path to personal power. Rejecting Jacaerys’ proud declaration that “only Targaryens ride dragons” (emphasis in the original), Nettles, by her shrewd tactics,  argued that one did not necessarily have to be a Valyrian descendant to be a dragonrider. The singular Targaryen mastery of dragons, which constituted the source of their dominance during the Conquest, the cornerstone of their diplomacy afterward, and the foundation of their religious Exceptionalism, now potentially lost its potency; if anyone could ride a dragon, why should the Targaryens rest at the top of the feudal hierarchy? The black faction, in any post-victory scenario, would need to grapple with the presence of a woman whose very existence as the sort of dragonrider she was opposed the Targaryen royal narrative, even if she herself was no rebel against the black faction or the Targaryen political system. 

Furthermore, Nettles would still be subject to a variety of prejudices even in a post-victory world for the black faction. Sexist Gyldayn’s disgusting and typically derogatory commentary aside, Nettles certainly came from what Westerosi (and specifically blue-blooded Westerosi) would consider a rather unsavory background: “a bastard of uncertain birth”, potentially “the daughter of a dockside whore”, “foul-mouthed” and apparently considered ugly by Westerosi standards (at least in the opinion of the openly pro-green Septon Eustace, who in all likelihood never actually saw her). Hugh and Ulf might have been just as lowborn, to be sure - Hugh is identified as a “blacksmith’s bastard”, while Ulf is described as a man-at-arms, in other words a low-ranking soldier - but since Westerosi patriarchy is gonna patriarchy, these men could pursue careers and have levels of social standing that Nettles, simply by virtue of her gender, never could; consequently, these men could also be moved up the social ladder, to at least a limited extent, with some ease where Nettles, by contrast, could not. Even if Nettles never actually worked as a sex worker (again, Gyldayn can fuck off with any such notion), the surface-level associations would always be there, certainly in the eyes of those already prone to look down on Nettles - she was the (presumed) daughter of a whore, living alone on the streets without any obvious trade or skills, so of course she was no more than a whore herself, or at least so onlookers would assume. In a world where even aristocratic women born to power and privilege have a harder time than their male counterparts in asserting their rights and claims to authority, how could the orphaned, lowborn girl Nettles be left to enjoy the sort of independent power she had as not just a dragonrider, but as what we might call a self-made dragonrider?

Too, because Nettles was a person of color, she was that much more easily othered by Westerosi society. Rhaenyra might have been the most blatant in using Nettles’ appearance (which is to say, her race) to undermine her, Nettles’, accomplishments - calling her a “a low creature” and declaring that “[y]ou need only look at her to know she has no drop of dragon’s blood in her” - but Mushroom, Munkun, and indeed Gyldayn all define Nettles first by her race, in a way they very obviously do not for the non-POC characters. With the racial xenophobia and prejudice which can permeate Westerosi society - see, for example, the dismissal of the current generation of Westerlings for the “doubtful blood” inherited from their Essosi great-grandmother, or the exotification of the Myrish Taena Merryweather, or the long history of antagonism against the people of Dorne from their non-Dornish Westerosi neighbors - Nettles might have found herself very much alone even among a triumphant black faction. Would she too be seen as a lesser dynastic prize, or ineligible for holdings in her own right, by virtue of her race, someone excluded from the upper echelon of Westerosi power politics because of the color of her skin and the foreign ancestry it represented? 

So I could see where, even in a victory scenario, Nettles may not have found herself totally or indeed at all welcome among the black faction. Nettles was a young woman who challenged the expectations of Targaryen draconic power, and who did so despite her race, sex, and class all assigning her an otherwise likely permanently low-ranking position in Westerosi society. Sadly, Nettles’ actual choice at the end of the Dance IOTL demonstrates the limited options she faced even as someone ostensibly so powerful as a dragonrider; her best case scenario in a post-Dance world was to live in permanent exile from the only home she had ever known, among people who were completely alien to her in custom, religion, and background, left to be isolated, worshiped, and feared as a local god. 

[horizon-verizon]

I think people don’t realise what a nightmare Fire & Blood is to adapt compared to ASOIAF. Often, characters are named and placed in situations in order to flesh out the family trees and marriage alliances, and then many of them are left waiting around during all of the actual interesting stuff. This can’t happen in a TV show, and frankly this is (unfortunately perhaps?) the most logical thing to do with Rhaena.

Fans understandably want everything in the source material to be faithfully adapted but visual mediums are not the same as literary works. Storylines have to be consolidated and streamlined to save costs for ensemble casts and to provide faster-paced storylines that don’t bore audiences, unlike books which can take their time with a story and gradually develop their characters over hundreds of pages.

Characters like Nettles and Rhaena simply don’t work in visual medium, because both characters would just not have enough to do that would warrant investment by the audience. Combining elements of both into one character, if done right, can strengthen the overall character and subsequent story.

Besides, the jealous lover trope for Rhaenyra in the book being the source of her and Daemon’s fallout is uninspiring. Daemon being forced to choose between Rhaena and Rhaenyra is a far more compelling angle, and would provide a stronger perspective on Daemon as a whole, especially with how lacking of a father he was in S1.

Anon responds to several recent posts about the likely merging of Nettles and Rhaena of Pentos's storylines that starts HERE or HERE.

I understand that HotD might be very entertaining to some people...but implying that the writers couldn't have done better bc F&B is supposedly incoherent (when it's far from so) AND thus it is as good as any adaptation could get--thereby seemingly to admit that it's not great and then seemingly simultaneously saying that it is actually pretty good...

is not the vibe.

In all, a lot of the issues you bring up are ordinary issues with adaptations (and seem to make as excuse for these writers who point blank already said/showed they were intent on creating a totally different story with Rhaenicent replacing the original storyline) but the mess of storylines we get in HotD can't be excused by this idea of how "difficult" it is to adapt what does have pretty clear characters, events, etc. Also, good planning and foresight and integrity couldn't hurt.

A)

unlike books which can take their time with a story and gradually develop their characters over hundreds of pages.

vs

I think people don’t realise what a nightmare Fire & Blood is to adapt compared to ASOIAF. Often, characters are named and placed in situations in order to flesh out the family trees and marriage alliances, and then many of them are left waiting around during all of the actual interesting stuff.

A contradiction. So F&B is very detailed and a rich text with solid characterizations and definite events now?

B)

Characters like Nettles and Rhaena simply don’t work in visual medium, because both characters would just not have enough to do that would warrant investment by the audience. Combining elements of both into one character, if done right, can strengthen the overall character and subsequent story.

...So Gwayne Hightower, who was given a lot more material than he ever actually had...that made sense to you? Hugh the Hammer becoming a family man when he already had the Caltrops deal with Ulf the White? You can't show an increasing amount of frustration from Ulf and Hugh without trying to make us sympathize with either of them and make either underdogs? We can't follow Nettles as a young street "urchin"? We can't do the same for two separate girls, make up stories and backgrounds?! HUH?! We can't have flashbacks to Marilda of Hull and the Hull boys? No?

We did it for those irrelevant nutjobs, but not for Rhaena or Nettles? Anon, please. Address the misgynoir or at least this major discrepancy.

Besides, the jealous lover trope for Rhaenyra in the book being the source of her and Daemon’s fallout is uninspiring. Daemon being forced to choose between Rhaena and Rhaenyra is a far more compelling angle, and would provide a stronger perspective on Daemon as a whole, especially with how lacking of a father he was in S1.

You assumed two things: that Rhaenyra believed Daemon x Nettles was real AND that I believe they happened romantically. The first one, that's more than understandable since that is the prevailing impression the fandom has had for years and a lot of people don't really like F&B for how differently it's written from ASoIaF (I think it would have been improved just with some female voices put to paper, like Daemon and Otto in Rogue Prince and some of F&B...esp Rhaenyra or her ladies and a few history-loving septas).

I even am rethinking the whole "Rhaenyra thought Nettles seduced Daemon with magic and stole him from her" bc....SEPTON EUSTACE SAYS THIS HAPPENED THIS WAY, after he already describes Mysaria a "witch" who manipulates Rhaenyra as if casting a spell. The guy who speculated that she and Daemon were sleeping together as Rhaenyra gorged herself while a war was going on. Like the true religious sexist that he is.

Aside from that, I still think that Nettles being revealed as being Daemon's bio daughter is FAR more compelling AND sensical than Rhaenyra willing to kill her husband's daughter who she partially raised...or was supposed to and not treat as if she serves her like some servant....which, again, is very misogynoirist. For some reason, people keep ignoring this particular point I'm making...

Anyway, once again, like I said HERE about Rhaena at the Vale, you could have her flourish in diplomacy and meeting certain characters who will be important later in the overall storyline...plus imagine what we could have had as how Rhaena manages to finally hatch Morning?! The process and tension--from the suggestion of those different "experiments" she tries that are all different from what she did when she was just a child--that's built up to that by some specific egg-interaction scenes...some epiphany she could have had...something to tie her into actual magic! And this is just one way you could have written Rhaena at the Vale!

I don't think you guys understand what you've lost.

C)

A lot of the weird shit that happens on the show!blacks' side in terms of why Daemon kills at Harrenhal when he canonically doesn't and why it's made out to be as if he's paid for a bad prize in winning the castle is because they have Rhaenyra acting like there isn't a war already happening whether she likes it or not (their argument back in e2). If they hadn't made the woman who was canonically "tempermental" and just as willing to assert her rights as some people Robb Stark or Stannis Baratheon were more a reality-denying doormat as she was who only fights bc he dad said stuff abt the ASoIaF prophecy instead of having any ambition for herself (in the attempt to make her more "moral" or whatever)...we wouldn't have had the mess of a storyline we got now.

Daemon's magic plotline, I'm not that angry about. More how he got there and the taking reframed as him trying to prove a point to his wife after a nonsensical argument and not being very successful in getting allies for her. And him doing so without thinking of how his leaving the way he does could impact Rhaenyra's hold even further, and for real this time (no, B&C would and canonically does nothing to dissuade anyone from supporting Rhaenyra). Rather than him "requesting" or being sent to Harrenhal, an argument there or not but likely after an actually sensical argument.

A point that he instantly invalidates by again going off without first establishing plans they are both aware of. This is war, not sitcom TV suburbia where the father leaves the house for a bit and there's low stakes for that to make sense. A much different sort of war from the Stepstones as well. All their lives are on the line, not just soldiers...which they didn't have (or as much) at the moment. And Dameon (book-wise) was not that petty as to cross into dum-dum territory.

D) Other Stuff

"compared"....not "impossible", and the way they have for several characters were very unnecessary, so...I can't agree with this sentiment that these characters are so, so difficult to have adapted as they are, esp since if you read well, you find a lot of evidence that shows who some important characters are and a few of their critical motivations. Now if you didn't don't want to do that, all the power to you. Doesn't mean that it was impossible or valueless to do so in the first place, since that is what we were supposed to do with this FICTIONAL historical document.

Often, characters are named and placed in situations in order to flesh out the family trees and marriage alliances, and then many of them are left waiting around during all of the actual interesting stuff. This can’t happen in a TV show, and frankly this is (unfortunately perhaps?) the most logical thing to do with Rhaena.

...funny you say that, since there was a lot that could have been done for Jacaerys' diplomacy arc to the Vale, then to the Manderlys, then to Cregan Stark where he stays and becomes great friends. I don't think you realize how much we lost here. Jeyne Arryn's words to Jace abt women sticking close and the reveal of her female lover; Wyman Manderly and the court that they didn't show in GoT, here is where they could have showcased the Merman's court; flashbacks to Cregan's times of getting his regent greedy uncle out so he can reclaim his own seat as his father intended as well as showing us their Jacegan(?) bromance's development. Like, this is at least 3 episodes alone!

You act like specific words, events, and actions are not told or narrated and done so with good enough detail (and reliably) in F&B for us to understand the and glean truth from fiction. As if the entire project is a haphazard collection of just names...when those marriage alliances (one of Joffrey to Desmond Manderly's youngest daughter) was made fully within the larger, variously-detailed and overlapping-storied context of the current Dance/war.

Jacaerys was not "waiting around". He went to the North to get alliances for his mother and in one of them, he meets with a Manderly and that is how he gets Manderly's promise--Joffrey's betrothal to his daughter. This is not even the most well known accomplishment Jace had in his particular mission, he'd go on to meet with two other, more famed, leaders with pretty badass moments DETAILED in the book that even could have been depicted/expanded more live.

These writers simply didn't think his diplomacy arc was important enough to expound and show in their time crunch...meanwhile, we got one-liner Gwayne Hightower speaking nonsense to Criston Cole, Alicole sex scenes, Alicent bathing as if she wants to ice her entire head to block out the world up the wazoo. And NONE of the Daemyra-Dragonstone family scenes that the time jump of last season's epi 8 came from. We're told, canonically, more about this unit than we are about Gwayne, yet here we are.

Perhaps I'm just assuming, but like I said in this post, it appears that people think the Dance portion of F&B was just the Dance...no, it started with "Heirs of the Dragon, who were Jaehaerys' children/grandkids towards the GC of 101. Which means that with as much context and history F&B actually gets into a lot of detail for a historical document, these writers had a lot of material for bringing Princess Rhaenys properly to life, for example. Even if you don't include how she wanted to go fight the Myrmen with her father Aemon while pregnant, this fact from the book should be enough to let you know what sort of person she was. Which is supplemented by her plans for how to defeat the greens in the first black council. Also, how we hear her response to Jaehaerys choosing Baelon and the lords choosing Viserys over her and her kids. And we have her protest angrily and freely how Jaehaerys was taking away her and her kid's birthrights...That's at least 3 incidents showing the true, real and solid "Rhaenys" of the orig story. It is consistent.

There was so much from Jace, Daemon, Rhaenyra-Mysaria they could have done (note how I keep talking about the blacks...bc the green characters actually have some notable plot action going on from their characterizations aside from the Alicole nonsense...not Helaena, though, but she was always meant to further Alicent and be an accessory, not her own person to these writers, so....)

Apart from that, F&B has Gyldayn castigate Rhaenyra from going to war herself...while Aegon was burnt into useless pork at Rook's Rest. You can have Rhaneyra do shit without going to war at Dragonstone with Daemon and Mysaria planning shit out as a sort of "good" change from the canon. You could even try to argue that since...

Gyldayn was looking to rebuke Rhaenyra for being a woman and going to war at all for nay inheritance like a man and thus paoint her as incompetent, that she didn't actually fall into a graceless heap and have the men around her do everything in her mental absence...

that she/Emma was simply sequestered to collect herself and work behind smaller spaces while calling this and that person to her to make plans, etc. Instead, we have her impersonate a septa and go on endangering herself thinking Alicent of all people not only would but could do anything with or without her to prevent a war that's already happening...This is called working with the original to make something "new".

...............................................................................

I've seen too many logical inconsistencies or places where they could have improved some's scenes if they had just....though ahead or read F&B more than twice in total good faith.

Deliberate giving black-specific stuff to the greens as well, which they also didn't have to do but did...willingly and BEFORE S2.

The writers, I mean. This book may have been created like a historical book...doesn't mean that we nor actual historians manage to find truths in said documents...otherwise we wouldn't know anything of certain events and wittle some more ambiguous events down to a few LIKELIEST possibilities. And we still have made pretty great movies from ambiguously told historical-legendary events (Vikings, hello?!)

I don't see this as a proper excuse.

[queenvhagar]

if they decide to make daeron a bastard imma scream... aside from the fact that it makes alicent even more of a hypocrite daeron being valyrian looking is actually pretty fucking important. in the books jace and daeron are only a few months apart in age and everyone was like "omg look at the queen giving birth to another targaryen looking baby while the princess had a baby that looks nothing like her or her husband!" also how the heck did daeron get a dragon if he's a bastard!?

first they give us no nettles now possibly this shit... I'm so over them adapting grrm's work into a version of whatever they think is cool.

also who the heck was princess aeriana. ik some folk are saying that it's possibly a made up character before aegon's conquest ... but the targaryen's weren't royalty at that point so wtf are the show makers high on, and i'm still mad at the stupid northern plot where they have jace talking about how aegon the conqueror went up north, plus cregan talking about how alyssane and jaehaerys visited winterfell during his dad's time which again makes zero fucking sense ... it was during alaric stark's time and he's probably cregan's grandpa or smth.

don't get me started on how they switched up addam and alyn's ages, plus didn't give us anything on marilda of hull ... oh and rhaenys apparently is totally cool with corlys having bastards and even thinks the boys mom must have been so pretty ...

this season is so boring and overall without context. daemon spends his time being high on harrenhal. alicent is going through major depressio arc. helaena is her usual mumbling self without any agency of her own. aemond is terrible. rhaenyra is ... idk what they're doing with her but i don't like it. aegon ii seems to be the only remotely interesting character but now he's gone.

so glad there's only one episode left of this disaster to get through ... can't believe they made us wait so long for this shit ... personally won't be waiting for season 3 because at this point it's probably going to be just as boring.

so disappointed we never got to see... jace negotiation with manderly's, sara snow, nettles, rhaenyra going mad with grief over luke, b&c going according to the books with helaena offering herself instead of her children, daeron in oldtown, book! accurate alyn and addam and daemon doing something instead of imagining how it'd be to fuck his mom...

sorry for the rant lol everything's just piled up for me since i waited until now to watch the shows and avoided spoilers to the best of my abilities. please do feel free to delete if you wish.

When people tell people that Game of Thrones was slow paced and technically very little happened and this season is just like that and to cope... nope.

As you mentioned in the second to last paragraph there were so many interesting things they could've done with this season to fill the time and expand on the story and characters... Instead there are 3 locations where morning scenes happen that don't grow the characters at all, nobody has any realistic motivations or emotions and reactions to events (and if they do they're framed as incorrect, like Jace or Aegon). It's oversimplified and redundant. No thoughts to be provoked. No depth to explore. No arcs for characters except maybe Daemon but it's been stretched way too far out and made irrelevant. No intrigue or politics. No scheming. Characters seem displaced from the setting...

I hope season 3 is the last season, and I won't be tuning into any other ASOIAF adaptations based on the crap fanfic quality of this one that they're trying to present as profound, deep, groundbreaking television.

[duchess-of-oldtown]

House of the Dragon Season 2 Episode 6 "Small folk" Thoughts

Just clarifying, these are my own thoughts, you don't like them, don't bother telling me so. Also, I'm not a book purist, I like adaptions taking putting their own spin on things - if it makes sense to do so. So, here were my thoughts. Obvs, this post is dark and full of spoilers.

Am I sad to say I was excited to see House Lefford? Give us more houses.

Jason ordering Aemond to come to him, it's just... my guy do you know Aemond? Are you serious?

Alicent got her cumuppence at the Council. I'm loving Olivia's portrayal of her fear and unease around Aemond.

Another Red Kraken Mention!!

I like that they let Aemond be smart at the Council and it lays the ground for him leaving King's Landing.

Ewan Mitchell's lil mmms are such a great character tic

Alicent, you're giving Serena Joy Waterford and it's not a good look on you

Corlys taking his place as Hand, there's so much in it, you can see he's sort of like I got all the power I wanted but... The cost.

Oh great now we're just making up Targaryens. Ryan, wtf

Why didn't they use this as an opportunity to introduce the other Valyrian houses? House Celtigar?

PADDY

As glad as I am to see Viserys and Daemon scenes, I'm so done with Daemon at Harrenhal. Why couldn't we get him wandering the Riverlands actually doing something? Introducing new houses and such? New places?

Simon being so kind to Daemon, this isn't the first time that somebody went mad around him.

CARAXES MY BABY

These are the scenes we should have at Harrenhal, Daemon and Alys plotting and discussing magic

I loved the Seasmoke scene. You can really sense the awe in which they hold the dragons but also the true danger of them. It's something I never felt in GoT. Also Seasmoke was side-eyeing Steffon like one of the raptors in Jurassic Park, that man was going to be a snack from the outset

Jace shouting Mother as they watch Steffon burn... Oh the irony

Dyana scenes.

Slap that old man, Rhaenyra. Slap him

Rhaenyra and her sword = Visenya

Mysaria as Rhaenyra's mistress is so special to me. Canonically bisexual Rhaenyra.

Larys, you're about as subtle as a fart in church

Aegon and Aemond scenes. Ewan and Tom play them so well. Aegon holding the lil ball, remembering his lil boy

Rhaena is going to be Nettles. That's no Morning, no reason for Daemon to fight Aemond, nothing.

Oh lil Stormcloud 😍

Disliking Jeyne Arryn. Why did they do her as an expy if Lysa?

Also, how is Rhaena going for a walk in the Eyrie? Did they wynch them down for a jaunt?

The Gay Abandon 😭😭😭

Addam and Alyn discussing their dad. Why does Corlys not pay Addam any mind? What happened there?

Where is Marilda of Hull???

Jace giving Mysaria the "I'm not calling you mom look"

Alicent with Aegon, the miscommunication, ugh the tragedy

Gwayne being a good brother to Alicent, these are the relationships we want to see complicated but expressive

Daeron mention. He's kind. (tell that to Bitterbridge)

Both Hightower siblings looking at Criston like 👁️👁️

RIOT! RIOT! RIOT! EAT THE RICH

I love Helaena's fringe tiara.

Helaena's panic, Alicent defending her daughter. The SPIKES

It's the same carriage from Rhaenyra and Alicent's first scene, she still has it 😭

Daemon was hoping that kid killed his grandad, he was like "maybe that kid is alright"

#GETDAEMONOUTOFHARRENHAL2024

Seasmoke was choosing his own man like a mid-season Bridgerton

Seasmoke reminds me of my cat.

Apparently all dragons have stealth mode.

GAY WE GOT GAY

Rhaenyra's little "yes he does that" when they tell her about Seasmoke is me when my sister complains the cat is trying to sit on her shoulder.

[ride-thedragon]

There's something undeniably written into the fact that Ser Florian and Daemon are the same age. Call it author awareness, but having one acknowledging Nettles as a child while the other is bathing and taking baths with her naked is so unlike him, I was shocked.

I understand the idea is that this is how a man that age would treat her, and then there's Daemon, but the cynic in me is like....

Are we being self-aware?

Is this meta?

The same thing happens with Marilda of Hull.

She's the same age as Nettles when she is pregnant with Addam. Her kids aren't acknowledged until after both Corlys' kids and wife are dead. Does Nettles know this?

If she does, what is going on in Maidenpool?

Even if she doesn't, I'm sure she knows the stories of Dragonseeds on Dragonstone and on Driftmark.

Is Marilda also an acknowledgment of how the affair would typically go and how Daemon is defying the convention for Nettles?

Either way, my baby girls outlive the men that change their lives and actively put them in danger, some more than others.

[valyrianfreehold]

I’m desperately clinging to hope that Nettles hasn’t been nixed bc we’ve SEEN the stills of a black woman with other dragonseeds and she looks too young to be Marilda of Hull esp if they aged up Addam and Alyn

[lya-dustin]

Someone will remember us

Chapter 62

Cw:hormonal imbalance, teen motherhood, death and mentions of infidelity

Taglist: @stargaryenx @mercedesdecorazon

Gif by: @targaryensource

She wants him dead.

She wants him to pay for her father’s murder, but they cannot do that.

Patience has never been one of Aemma’s virtues, but life sure loves to make her wait.

Mother had known the truth since Teora’s funeral eight moons ago and done nothing.

“Why do you let him go unpunished?” she had asked only to be reminded that she is merely a mirror of her mother.

“The same reason you do not want Aemond to be punished.” She had said in tears.

Both in love with men who the law and reason tells them cannot live.

“I hope he fucking dies.” Aemma mutters as she goes and sees the shitshow known as the Sowing of the Seeds.

Turns out infidelity was incredibly common for Targaryens.

Mushroom was not the only Dragonseed here, nor his own children the ones boasting of descent from Jaehaerys.

Despite the many, many warnings given to those who do not have dragon’s blood, many still try to mount a dragon.

A dragon is not a horse.

Even if there are myths and stories about non-Targaryens claiming dragons, those are unlikely to happen in magic-less places like Westeros.

“Addam?” Jace asked looking at Addam and Alyn Waters with jealousy. Addam had claimed Seasmoke at grandfather’s suggestion and on the first try the rowdy gray dragon had claimed him.

Aemma had received the worst of news ever since she had given birth a month ago.

First, grandmother dies despite their attempts to cheat the Stranger, second, that Daemon killed her father and mother has known for most of the year and thirdly, that they have not just one brother, but two.

Even mother was shocked with that last one, especially because Addam was a dead ringer for father.

Well, Addam was their brother, Alyn was possibly Daemion’s, or Uncle Roger’s or uncle Malentine’s. Marilda of Hull was not sure, but all assumed Alyn was their brother as well.

Joffrey had accepted them, Baela found four- and ten-year-old Alyn handsome enough to make Jace jealous and only she and Jace knew the threat they were to them.

Alyn was of an age with Baela and Rhaena, Addam was only two weeks older than Aemma. Even worse, grandfather had suggested legitimizing them and to her horror, mother had agreed.

Addam and Alyn came after Joffrey in the line of inheritance, Rhaena was expected to marry Addam when the war was over like a fucking hand me down.

“Daemon, he killed our father.” She whisperers and Jace goes as white as his shirt.

“What?” it comes out strangled, and suddenly they are little children who have just been told father is dead.

“He paid Correy to kill him, grandfather confronted him when they were standing vigil for grandmother. Mother knows, grandmother told her the day of Teora’s funeral.”

“What does grandfather say, when are we to bring him to justice?” he asks with a pained look in his face.

Daemon was like a third father to him, he was Baela’s father and their younger brother’s as well, but tradition and law said he must die.

“He is to die fighting Aemond over the God’s Eye, rather poetic if you think about it.” She tries not to sound hopeful because part of her wants Aemond to survive that duel.

“Two kinslayers taking each other to hell, gods, I envy Aemond only because he gets to kill him.” Jace said surprising her.

He was like Harwin, too easy going and friendly to think capable of such dark words.

And yet, Harwin, good old Harwin who reminded her of their favorite hunting dog, was a warrior. A warrior just like Jace is.

A warrior who had taken grandmother’s plans and fine tuned them with the help of Aemma’s visions.

He will be her hand when the time comes. Only he can run Westeros the way they want to.

Aemma had seen Steffon Darklyn be burned and snacked on by Seasmoke, the dragon keeper named Hilda be killed by Vermithor after she tried to mount him and seen a shepherd girl named Nettles tame Sheepstealer by continuing the work her mother had done by offering him sheep every time they crossed paths.

Nettles was Daemon’s daughter.

Her mother had met Daemon who studied dragons on his spare time and both had struck up an affair after he succeeded in wooing the young woman who’s parents had been bought and freed by Corlys himself in the summer islands.

Mother had wanted to kill him, Baela as well because Nettles had supplanted her in his affections just like Addam and Alyn had supplanted Jace in Corlys’.

There are cheers and as the blacksmith’s bastard son is claimed by Vermithor.

The blacksmith was the son of Baelon or Aemon, no one was sure which prince had fucked Hugh the Hammer’s grandmother. Some say she was shared by both princes and even their wives.

Unlike Ulf the Sot who claimed Grey Ghost after boasting that his grandmother was Saera Targaryen and could prove it because his mercenary father had pressed his claim at the Great Council in 101.

And because Silverwing is hers, Aemma has had to get a wetnurse for Aemon and throw herself into training.

She was to have Hugh the Hammer as her sworn shield given how often their dragons coil, but in the off chance that he was not available, Aemma needed to be able to hold her own in a fight.

She hated it and had cried as the midwife had bound her breasts and Baela had laughed at her misery until Aemma told her the Sara Jace fucked was Sara Snow.

Now Baela flirts with Alyn of Hull and Aemma has forgotten to tell Jace why she is doing that.

“The last dragon has been claimed! We will feast to the bravery of these men and women and our enemies will know their days are done!” Daemon raised Hugh the Hammer’s arm in the air as those gathered cheered at their assured victory.

Only four people had died and ten injured, most of them commonfolk claiming descent from Maegor the Cruel.

Not bad, definitely not the bloodbath she had seen as she had taken Aemon for his first flight.

The new dragonriders are given places of honor, and with the exception of her new ‘nephews’ they stick out like sore thumbs.

“They are wearing Velaryon sigils.” Alarra looks ready to murder her goodbrother. “Have you no respect for your late wife?”

Five and ten years ago, Corlys had gotten in row with Rhaenys who blamed him for Laena’s elopement with a man who murdered his previous wife and fucked a young Rhaenyra after getting her drunk at a brothel.

Five and ten years ago, Vaemond had found his brother drunk and fucking Marilda the Mouse who according to rumor would open her legs for any man that paid her any attention.

Alyn was his, just as Addam was Laenor’s, but Rhaenyra agreed on the lie that both were Laenor’s because Laenor never repudiated the three boys she bore.

Poor Jace can’t help his jealousy and Aemma’s moods had not yet recuperated from the imbalance caused by pregnancy.

Joffrey adored his new brothers and Baela ran the risk of fucking her uncle, much like her stepsister and stepmother.

“They are Velaryons, Alarra, they will be treated as such.” Corlys said coolly and Alarra decided she would speak to her husband and see if he had any seashells strewn about the sand.

If he has any, she will kill him, stuff his Leviathan down his throat and leave him for the crabs.

She would avenge her honor Celtigar style and if Rhaenys’ spirit wished for it as well, she would be very happy to do the same to the man sitting beside her.

“How did your charges take it?” he asks now showing concern to his real family.

“Aemma dislikes the notion of them coming directly after Joffrey in the succession, Baela hates that Rhaena is being given to Addam like a hand me down and Jace feels left out as he believes that you do not love him as a grandfather should now that you have ‘real grandsons’.” Alarra quite enjoyed the look of guilt in his face.

Corlys had taken to the Strong Lads as if they were his own and not once regretted it, now the world could see he showed a clear preference for the Hull boys for actually having his blood.

“How do you suppose I fix this, goodsister?” he asked as he finally turned his attention to said grandchildren.

“Speak to them, write to Rhaena and ask her for her thoughts and opinions regarding this marriage you are pushing for and remember Jacaerys and Joffrey are your heirs not, them.”

[mejcinta]

Rumor had it that Alyn, Addam and their mom Marilda worked along the beach for the sailors. And that Marilda helps build ships.

Would be interesting if Nettles was also lurking around Hull at that time, although I'm not sure where this is she and the dragonseeds have converged.

There was no doubt in my mind that this is Netty, but I'd always envisioned she'd be wearing pants when we first see her. The skirt/dress thingy she's wearing is a surprising delight.

[sweetestpopcorn]

Why do you think Daemon cheated on Rhaenyra with both Mysaria and Nettles when he loved his niece and she was the mother of his son?

Hi 😃

Sorry it took me so long to answer you, anon, but I'm answering now so XD I guess it's something. I hate myself so much... 🤦‍♀️

Before anything, please, everyone, bear in mind that I am answering this ask according to my view points and to my interpretation of F&B and its characters. As I have said in the past, F&B is written in such a way that people can have a very different read. This is mine.

I think it's important to bear in mind not only the type of man that Daemon was but also the universe he lived in. Noble men having mistresses was not uncommon, in many cases even when they were said to love their wives dearly. Just look at Corlys Velaryon. We are told he loved Rhaenys yet he had a prolonged affair with Marilda of Hull having two children by her, yet no one questioned that he loved his wife, and I too think he did.

Daemon would never love a woman the way that, for instance, his father Prince Baelon did Princess Alyssa, or even as Jaehaerys loved Alysanne. I think he would love a woman in his own way which from what is known of him is in my opinion something similar to a "brownie-point" system, something of the sort of: Is she hot? One point. Does she love me and does what I want? Another point. Was she a virgin (I know it's disturbing, but hey it's Daemon)? Another point. Has she given me children? Point. Were the children boys? Extra points. You get the picture I think 😅

This being said I do believe he "loved" Rhaenyra, but in his own way, because of all the things she was and did for him. He does seem to have a god like complex which she definitely fed, and I do believe he very much liked to be the number one man in her life. Of all the women of his life - Rhea Royce (his one true love lol), Mysaria, Laena Velaryon, maybe Nettles - I don't think anyone quite adored him as much as Rhaenyra did, or was as serious about his love (to the point of it not being very healthy). Reminder that our queen was willing to kill a sixteen year old girl because there was a chance she could have Daemon's son and because he was in love with her (according to Mysaria) 😬 Not your proudest moment was it Rhaebae?

Now, before the Dance there's no record of him being unfaithful to her. In fact, they seemed to have an exceptionally boring marriage since the only events reported about them since they married was that they had two sons, that she had him collect Vaemond's head when he said the "Velaryon" princes were bastards, and that in 129 AC she was pregnant again (snore fest). Rhaenyra was also described, by George himself, as a proud and stubborn woman which definitely isn't very compatible with her turning a blind eye while Daemon collects women and possibly bastards and shames her.

Am I stating for a certainty that during this time he was faithful? Probably not, but he was at least very discrete about it. With how biased F&B is against Rhaenyra (and history books in general) I have no doubt that if he had mistresses we would have been told - as we were during the Dance. Adding to this her "sweet" temperament and how infatuated she was with him, I am convinced that if he had other women, she was kept in the dark.

What changed during the Dance you might ask? Well, at the time she ascended the throne Rhaenyra had suffered a very traumatic miscarriage, had lost three sons (Viserys was presumed dead), and was dealing with all of the sh_t that kept pilling up around her. It doesn't seem likely to me she was in the mood for... well Daemon.

Enter Mysaria, who we are told Rhaenyra knew about and didn’t care. 

If she wasn’t “keeping Daemon entertained” 💑 it did make sense for her to have him have some “fun” 🍆🍑 with Mysaria. Mysaria was older than her, no longer very beautiful, and likely at her age (and given the times they lived in) no longer fertile. Rhaenyra knew there was no danger of Daemon either leaving her for Mysaria, or fathering a bastard on her. As for Daemon, I don’t think he would be the type of man content with holding his wife’s hand in bed and not holding anything else. I believe that in his mind, Rhaenyra was his niece, his wife, mother of his sons, and his queen, but if she wasn’t willing to have him bed her, then he would find someone else to do it. Easy as that.

As for Nettles, to this day I am not sure what the truth was. By this I mean if she was his daughter, or his lover. On the one side given what we are told about their relationship, they do sound very much like lovers to me. Additionally, in “The World of Ice and Fire” where we have the short version of the story, she is ever only presented as his lover and no other hypothesis is raised. Now juxtaposed to this what makes me think she was maybe a bastard daughter of his and not his lover, is the fact that so much doubt is placed upon them being lovers. If it was so straightforward, why is it still so questioned by the sources of F&B?

In any case if they were lovers (I do lean a bit more towards this even though I wish it weren’t true because it just adds another point to Daemon’s darkness) I have two words for you: midlife crisis. What level? Yes.

Reading about their relationship gave me a huge Deja Vu. Allow me to elaborate.

1- Spending the days flying together? Check.💁‍♀️

2- Giving her countless valuable gifts? Check.💁‍♀️

3- Spending all of the time with each other, dining together, amongst other things? Check.💁‍♀️

Is this sounding familiar to anyone? Well, I have no idea, but it did to me. Now I ask, how similar was this to what had happened in 112 AC between him and Rhaenyra? And how likely it would be that Daemon, now almost fifty, older, no longer with his whole life ahead of him, likely no longer having a chick to worship the ground he walked on cof Rhaenyra cof would want to relieve his youth? To be in “love” again? To have a younger girl who loved him? I would argue that very likely and Nettles was the perfect opportunity.

In conclusion (I hate how long my answers are), Daemon “loved” Rhaenyra in his own way, but to a man like him I don’t think that “love” would be an impediment to having a little something something on the side every once in while, especially, if he wasn’t getting it at home.

People are what they are, and no one is magically changed or transformed by love, or by a person. Change, true change, has to come from within because only that kind of change will last. And some people will only ever love us in their own way. 

Moral of the story: Don’t ever think that if someone says they love you and then they do something like cheating that it’s your fault, or that they don’t love you enough. The fault is not with us, it’s with them. Love or lack there of isn’t the issue, people are.

XOXO, Gossip Popcorn 🍿