#neil talks about mary

[shebsart]

That's her fun uncle!! That's his special little guy!!!

[02511213942]

I love your Neil so much 🤲😭 can't wait to see him again 🤏🤏

ME FREAKING TOO!!! THANK YOU!!! I MISS HIM trust me i still draw neil's head turned 3/4 to the left every day i've just been cooking on something more...! here's some neil bobbleheads from the archives

[theseyellowdays]

My new favorite personal headcannon is that Hatfords are descendents of the Peaky Blinders. That will be all.

[ravlykpavlyk]

...but he'd violently disliked her [Mary] for half his life.

I don't know why I find this part that fascinating. I guess it's the fact that Neil does understand what Mary did to him was wrong (considering the fact that he disliked her and was aware of that). Neil also realizes that part of his opinion is a bit biased because of being on a run and all of that.

Now I see lots of fics where Neil defends his mother and stands on the fact that she was a good mother, but then I reread his part and ... I'm not so sure now that he would. Yeah, he would shrug on the things she did to him and he might try to justify them even, but would it be because of believing that Mary was a good mother or simply because of being used to being hurt and being blamed for it?

[well-gosh-diddly-darnit-minyard]

mama’s boy by dominic fike as aaron minyard is understandable but may I propose mama’s boy as neil abram josten?

[lgbtqreads]

Fave Five: Asexual YA Romance

Forward March by Skye Quinlan (f/f) Let’s Talk About Love by Claire Kann (m/f) You Don’t Have a Shot by Racquel Marie (f/f) Tash Hearts Tolstoy by Kathryn Ormsbee (m/f) Planning Perfect by Haley Neil (f/f) Bonus: Coming later this year, Love Letters for Joy by Melissa See (m/f) and Wren Martin Ruins it All by Amanda DeWitt (m/m)

[brokenhardies]

emissary verse interpretations of the batman rogues gallery my beloved (they only exist in my head)

[aurathsmind]

book/tv show pitch a brother and sister from victorian-era england find a time travel device and get transported to modern day new york, they meet 2 modern people and they discover what the future is like, one of the siblings is desperate to get home and has a hard time adjusting and the other becomes obsessed with changing to fit the time and adapt into the future and at the end they decide to separate because the latter doesn't want to go back to their old life

[dykekarkat]

interesting to me that neil compares kevin's relationship with riko to his relationship with his father when i truly believe it is much more similar to the relationship he had with his mother when she was alive. OKAY GUYS JUST WALK WITH ME FOR A SECOND ALRIGHT HEAR ME OUT. okay so obviously there are some major differences like mary's physical abuse is justified as necessary discipline for neil's continued survival whereas riko's physical abuse of kevin was mainly due to jealousy plus the fact that riko and kevin are the same age does create a much different power dynamic, however if neil is gonna compare riko to his father i think i am allowed to ignore this one. but ANYWAY if u think about the extreme codependency fostered in the nest through the partner system it's very comparable to mary and neil's forced dependency on each other while they're on the run. like kevin and neil are both isolated from society and forced into a situation where there is only one other person they can trust or rely on in the face of external dangers (riko and mary respectively). but the bulk of the comparison comes from the fact that the deals surrounding kevin are Not about keeping riko from physically attacking or kidnapping him (like neil's father does to him) it's about keeping kevin from saying Yes. andrew + neil are working to keep kevin from agreeing to go back and that's why it is fundamentally similar to the abusive situation neil finds himself in with his mother. if mary was alive neil never would've gone back to exy, if she had survived and told him to leave the foxes he would've said yes!! he's been conditioned to rely on her the same way that kevin was conditioned to be riko's second!! neil talks about kevin like he only fears physical repercussions to himself from riko which is true but on a fundamental level kevin and neil are struggling with the same idea which is "i should not be doing this". plus kevin's love/guilt/relief surrounding riko (specifically his death) is like one for one how neil feels about his mother. I'm not really going anywhere with this post i just couldnt stop thinking about mary and neil's relationship and how overlooked it is due to neil's biases.

[fuckyeahgoodomens]

SFX Magazine Issue 368, August 2023

THEY’RE BACK – AND THIS TIME THEY’RE IN ALL-NEW TERRITORY. NEIL GAIMAN TALKS RETURNING FOR SEASON TWO OF GOOD OMENS

THE RASCALLY DEMON Crowley (David Tennant) and the neurotic angel Aziraphale (Michael Sheen) put aside their differences to pull off one doozy of a Hail Mary and prevent an impending Apocalypse in Good Omens’ first season. The task cemented the pair’s unconventional friendship. So what are divine beings, who have fallen out of grace with both Heaven and Hell, to do for an encore?

The answer lies with archangel Gabriel (Jon Hamm), who shows up unannounced on the doorstep of Aziraphale’s London bookshop. Suddenly, Aziraphale and Crowley are caught up in a caper of biblical proportions – but also a more intimate tale.

“It’s a mystery,” showrunner Neil Gaiman tells SFX. “It kicks off a story that doesn’t have giant consequences for the universe, even if it does have consequences for Aziraphale and Crowley. We have a lot of the marvellous Jon Hamm, who is the angel Gabriel and turns up at the beginning stark naked, carrying a cardboard box with no memory of who he is. In the same way, it is about Aziraphale and Crowley having to get involved with humanity in a way that they haven’t before.

“They get dragged in slightly against their will to try to sort out the love life of Aziraphale’s tenant,” he continues. “Her name is Maggie [Maggie Service] and she runs the record shop next to the bookshop. You’ll see the coffee shop over the road, which is Nina’s [Nina Sosanya]. The relationship between Maggie and Nina is one that Crowley and Aziraphale try to fix, and mess up, because they are not good at human relationships, even if they can do miracles.”

Truth be told, Gaiman never originally intended this arc to serve as Good Omens’ second instalment. The TV series was based on Gaiman and Terry Pratchett’s 1990 novel. The two collaborators had partially hashed out the details for a sequel to the fantasy comedy, late one night in a hotel room. This, however, is not it. Gaiman instead plotted a new narrative that could provide the connective tissue between the first season and a theoretical season three, if it happens.

“Because the hypothetical season three exists, there is a story that is there, and I didn’t feel that we could drive straight from season one into that,” Gaiman explains. “I knew what the stakes were. I knew what the parameters were. I also knew that I had David and Michael. I had the angels from plot number one.

I had demons from plot number one. And with anybody that I wanted to bring back, but didn’t have room for right now, I did not have to bring them back as themselves. “I had absolutely nothing for Madame Tracy to do in this plot, but I would be damned if Miranda Richardson wasn’t going to be in this. She is one of my favourite people in the world. She is hilarious and is so good. And I knew I was going to have a new demon replacing Crowley as Hell’s representative in London/ the UK. Miranda’s demon Shax is the best demon you could want.”

It’s late February 2022 and SFX is in Edinburgh for a set visit. A soundstage in Pyramids Studios has been transformed into a street in Soho. The visible local stores include the aforementioned book, coffee and record shops, as well as a magic establishment. In the middle of them all stand Aziraphale and Crowley, the latter in close proximity to his classic Bentley. It’s close to the end of the six-episode season, so exactly what the duo is discussing constitutes a spoiler. We can say, however, that Aziraphale has picked up the pace. Time is of the essence as Shax marshals her forces to descend on Aziraphale’s store and retrieve Gabriel.

“This is really Shax’s first time out on Earth,” Gaiman explains. “She is working very diligently and very hard in Hell for a long time. Now she is on Earth, trying to figure it all out. She’s just discovering what Crowley has known for 6,000 years, which is that if you’re a demon and come up with a brilliant plan to screw up the lives of humanity, people will get there first and do worse than anything you could have imagined! She’s coming to terms with that.

“She is having to deal with the first crisis on her watch, as well, which is the disappearance of the archangel Gabriel from Heaven. It would be fair to say that by the end of the story, she is leading as much as she can get from Hell’s requisition department – a legion of Hell – in an attack on a Soho bookshop.”

When audiences catch up with Aziraphale again, he’s enjoying his time among humans. He owns most of the block in a Soho neighbourhood, and he’s meddling in Nina’s love life. Meanwhile, Crowley has been living in his car, with his plants sitting on the back seat. He’s grumpy about his current status quo, but frequently hangs out at Aziraphale’s. The duo began as antagonists, but their history and blossoming relationship will be fleshed out in flashbacks.

“One of the enormously fun things I came up with is the idea of minisodes,” Gaiman explains. “They are 25-minute-long episodes within the episode. We have three of them over our six episodes. Each of them is like one of those chunks of episode three [in season one]. Whereas the longest one of those was four or five minutes, if that, these are full stories.

“You get to have the story of [put-upon Biblical figure] Job, and you learn Aziraphale and Crowley’s part in the story. Then writer Cat Clarke takes us to Edinburgh in the 1820s for a tale of body-snatching and attempted murder that the boys get involved in,” he adds.

“Finally, Jeremy Dyson and Andy Nyman reunite the League Of Gentlemen in a Nazi-period story that takes place very shortly after the episode in the church. That one was the only one I said had to be there, because I fell in love with our Nazi spies in the church. I kept thinking, ‘What would happen if they essentially came back as zombies, with a mission from Hell to try and investigate whether or not Crowley and Aziraphale were actually fraternising?’”

Gaiman admits that one of the greatest challenges has been filming Good Omens simultaneously with his upcoming show Anansi Boys. The two shoot within throwing distance of each other, but are both timeconsuming endeavours.

“If I could go back in time, I would go back to 16 September 2020, when Douglas Mackinnon [co-producer] and I got the phone call from the Amazon bigwigs to say, ‘We have good news for you and interesting news for you,’” Gaiman recalls. “‘The good news is we are greenlighting both Good Omens and Anansi Boys. The interesting news is you are going to have to do them both at the same time.’

“I would go back to then and I would throw myself on the call and say, ‘Neil, don’t! This is unwise.’ That we are doing them both together is great. The amount of sleep I am not getting is monumental and monstrous.

“It’s a little bit like childbirth, in that I managed to forget all the things that drove me nuts about the first one. Having said that, I managed to fix all the things that really drove me nuts making season one, which is great. We just have a whole new set of problems making season two…”

The Odd Couple - David Tennant and Michael Sheen talk character and sets for season two

Crowley and Aziraphale come off as the best of frenemies at times. Where do they stand with one other now?

DT: They are indeed. What’s different in season two is because of what happened at the end of season one, they no longer have head offices that they have to report to. They are in a very different position. Whereas before they were trying to get away with things, now they are kind of free agents.

MS: Although sort of fugitives as well. They are sort of in-between. But this amazing life they have created over a millennia, they are now able to enjoy in a slightly different way. They are not having to put on a front for their respective teams. There is a different kind of freedom.

DT: While at the same time being cut off, so they are also strangers in a strange land.

MS: That kind of connects them in a slightly different way. They have always been the only two beings who could understand each other’s position. Now they are pushed even closer together.

Now that they have the run of the place with no obligations, does that bring its own set of problems, being cut off?

DT: They have this sort of uneasy relationship. They are not entirely cut off from their head offices. Indeed, their head offices are quite keen to exploit that sort of adjacent connection, as we will see as the story unfolds. They exist in this grey area, neither the supernatural nor of the Earth.

MS: By the time we pick up their story in this series, they have appeared in time where they were kind of let alone a bit more. When we pick the story up, they are being bothered again.

The depth and the richness and the detail of what we are seeing on set here in Edinburgh is mind-blowing. How is it for you having it all in one place now, rather than having filming scattered around the UK?

MS: It’s completely changed the experience of doing it. Just being indoors… The Soho set on the first season was freezing cold.

DT: I was in a car park. Even inside the bookshop I was exposed to the elements! There’s a greater percentage of the show set here. There was a practical imperative to making it a manageable environment. If we had been in a car park, the elements might have impinged our ability to film.

Hellraiser - David Tennant is Crowley

You and Michael know these characters inside out. Do you have a shorthand?

It’s a hard thing to be objective about. Although I didn’t know Michael that well before we shot season one, it was always easy and exciting working together. It’s well-oiled now, for sure. It’s certainly fun to come to work. We enjoy bouncing off each other.

How comfortable are they about becoming involved with Gabriel?

I suppose Aziraphale is a much more enthusiastic detective. We are very much voting for the spin-off called The Azirafiles, which will follow this! As with most things, Crowley is reluctant to get involved or to exhibit any kind of energy or enthusiasm about very much. He is dragged kicking and screaming into this. Necessity forces him to get involved, whereas Aziraphale rather likes it.

Where does Crowley hang out these days?

He spends a lot of time in the book shop. He only has one friend. He can only have one friend. That is the great liberation, and also the great prison, that they find themselves in. They have no one else. They have come to rely on each other more than they ever did. And more than they care to admit.

Crowley is a rock star, in a way. Were there any particular musicians that inspired you?

Not consciously, no. The look was assembled accidentally during the first costume sessions. The Crowley of the book is of the mode when the book was written. He is more kind of Wall Street, the way he is described. We just decided that Crowley should always be of the moment he’s in. We were just trying to find a look that we felt fitted.

Divine Being - Michael Sheen is Aziraphale

How has knowing your characters better informed this series?

The first series was the first time we really properly worked together. It feels like we haven’t stopped working together since. Everything that has happened in-between plays into coming back to these characters. I am sure it is all feeding into it. It’s very difficult for us to know how that is informing the characters and their relationships.

With the flashbacks to various points in Earth’s history, is there a period of time Aziraphale enjoys the most?

One of the most enjoyable things for the audience and us is moving through different historical periods. It’s a great source of joy, and people thoroughly enjoyed that episode in the first series, so that has been expanded on in season two. But in terms of which Aziraphale enjoys the most, I think it’s not actually a period of time that we’ve seen him in on this series.

He would have been happiest at the end of the 19th century, in the Victorian era, which is considered the golden age of magic. He would have loved being with the greats like Harry Houdini. He loved the Victorian period. It was a great period of time for philanthropy and doing good works in a municipal way.

How has it been going from something dark like The Prodigal Son to a more whimsical show?

That’s the nature of an actor’s job. You go from one thing to another. In some ways, it’s even more useful to have big differences between the characters. What tends to happen, and I think most actors feel this way, is if you are playing one character for a long time, part of you yearns to play the bits the character doesn’t have. There’s a naivety and an innocence about Aziraphale. But at the same time, underneath that, there is eons of knowledge and experience.

[pandaseek]

Head cannon time: Neil is smart.

I know what you're thinking, Neil is a math major, he's a polyglot, of course he's smart. But that's not what I'm talking about.

I'm saying that Neil is smart.

There is a reason why Mary had to force to do average at school and not draw attention to himself, because that kid was bringing home straight A's and getting awards for damn near everything. Something he was very proud of because it was the only time both of his parents would be nice to him. They might even give him a treat.

Mary forces him to become paranoid to the extent of making average grades to go unnoticed, but do you know how hard it is to make a certain grade? You have to know every answer on the test to calculate how much you can get right to hit that perfect C.

I think Neil sat there through every lesson and test running calculations in his head about how many mistakes he needed to make to go under the radar. To never win an award. To never get asked to join any clubs. Because he KNOWS that Nathan and his people are scouring any news about up and coming kids.

They're looking at all the finalist in the state and nationals spelling bee's. The decathlons. The sporting teams. Just waiting for Nathaniel to grow egotistical enough to get the spotlight again.

But Mary doesn't celebrate his achievements anymore. At best he'll get a pat on the back if his report card is filled with the most mundane, 'I have no clue who this kid is' language from his teachers.

And Neil is desperate for that crumb of affection.

So he only goes back to Exy after she dies, and he plays down his talents until Kevin comes along. And when Andrew calls him out for knowing more than he lets on... Well, Neil is a real boy now, He doesn't need to hide anymore.

[jtl-fics]

Firm believer that if Aaron and Neil let themselves they'd be good friends. I think that joke would 100% be Neil going, "Dealing with group projects now makes me understand why my mom would slap me when I got excited for them before." and with that now in the air between them Aaron and Neil start to unpack their intricate and endless mommy issues through the guise of joking. Until one of them says something about what their moms did to them and the other goes, "Wow, that's really not okay." and it's coming from someone who actually gets the way that yeah it's not okay but they still love their moms. It was still them and their mom vs. the world. They really start to accept that...it wasn't okay. This is not over the course of an evening but months of dark jokes and sharing memories of both the good and the bad. It gets to the point that Aaron drags Neil to the sessions with Betsy ("You started this asshole" "Fuck you." "Wrong twin.") so that Neil can act as a sort of translator for Aaron's complex love for Tilda. Andrew has somehow missed their entire growing friendship until this point and when he mentions it Aaron just frowns at him, "I'm modeling behavior for you and Katelyn asshole."

What if Neil and Aaron find out they have a class in common during Neil’s second year and they reluctantly agree to team up for a group presentation because doing it together is better than doing it with unreliable strangers. Although a lot of snark is involved at first, they start warming up to each other the more time they have to spend together to work on their presentation and one evening, while it’s late and only the two of them are still awake, one of them—under the guise of exhaustion—makes a dark joke about his childhood that surprises a bark of laughter out of the other and that’s ultimately what makes them open up to one another. They find out they have more in common than they would like and this one evening marks the beginning of an unspoken friendly truce between them.

[indigovigilance]

Continuity Errors

Crowley can stop time. We’ve noticed buggy things about time. Let’s talk about it.

I’m going to start with an overview of every time he has definitely frozen time in order to establish the mechanics of Crowley’s time-stopping power in the GO universe. Then, I’m going to talk about other events where Crowley may have stopped time, and it wasn’t (directly) shown to the audience.

or read this 3,500 word beast of a meta on Ao3

edit: if you're deciding whether or not to read this, check out the reblog notes!

Opening obligatory "do not put anything about this in Neil Gaiman's askbox"

Crowley freezes time locally, selectively exempting individuals

S1E2

In S1E2, Crowley freezes time at the corporate training ground to interrogate Mary Hodges, formerly Sister Mary Loquacious (played by Nina Sosanya, actor for Nina in S2). It may seem like she’s just hypnotized and time is progressing normally around all of them, but that isn’t the case. Immediately before Crowley hypnotizes Hodges, we can hear gunfire in the background; a few seconds before Hodges is released from the trance, we hear shouting and sirens. But during the time that Hodges is entranced, all we hear is three things: the dialogue, music, and what sounds like the ticking of a kitchen timer. 

We could do a little bit of extrapolation from the fact that the beginnings of gunshots and siren sounds are temporally very close together, especially depending on how we measure time. Crowley turns the paintball guns into deadly weapons at 36:59. Crowley freezes Mary Hodges at 38:47. A ticking sound starts the same moment. We also hear what we will come to recognize as the “pause time” sound, a sort of wobbly sound. The ticking sound seems to stop around… 40:07? Right before the line about lovely little toesy woesies? It’s unclear with the overlapping tracks. At 40:11 Crowley says “let’s go” and we can hear sirens in the background start now. Aziraphale then snaps his fingers and unfreezes Hodges at 40:17.

So during 191 seconds of screentime, 84 seconds of it was spent with time frozen, if I accept the ticking sound to be the indicator. If time was only frozen locally, meaning just the paintball grounds and not the nearest police station and roads leading to it, then emergency services had just over three minutes from the time the first live round was fired to arrival. If time was actually frozen globally except for Crowley, Azirarphale, and Hodges, then emergency services got there in 85 seconds, or less than a minute and a half. Maybe Britain is doing something wildly different than here idk but I think the more likely explanation for the event timing is that Crowley is only freezing time in a local bubble. The shooters stop shooting but the police are still driving towards them while Crowley and Aziraphale are interrogating an entranced Mary Hodges.

The case with Hodges is kind of confusing because the audience is presented with a false dichotomy between “frozen in time” and “hypnotized.” It’s actually both. Crowley has frozen time around the three of them, but Hodges, like Aziraphale, was exempt. It just so happens that she was also entranced at the same time, which explains as well why Aziraphale can release her from the trance, since our best evidence indicates that he can’t control time.

S1E3 & S2E3

In S1E3, Crowley freezes Jean Claude, the executioner at the Bastille. Immediately before, we can hear the guillotine, screaming and jeering outside the cell. As soon as Jean Claude is frozen, however (13:29, complete with wobble sound), there is complete background silence, except for the dialogue between our ineffable aristocrats. When Crowley restarts time, background noise restarts as well. This evidence indicates that Crowley froze time for the surrounding area as well as inside the cell.

In S2E3, Crowley freezes Mr. Dalrymple. We don’t have definitive information about how much of the rest of the world is affected since the scene takes place indoors on a quiet night and there are no external cues of time starting or stopping.

S1E6: Freezing Out Satan

In S1E6, not only are Crowley, Aziraphale, and Adam pulled out of the normal flow of time: it seems that they are also pulled out of normal space. They appear to be in an ethereal desert where we can see their wings, but we don’t actually know where they are. The way we enter, inhabit, and then exit this time-stop is completely different from any of the other three explicit timestop scenes: Crowley must use his whole body to summon the power to cast the miracle, they travel elsewhere, then he must use his crankshaft to exit the time-stop.

I take this to indicate that freezing time when Satan is near takes a lot more power than freezing time around Mary Hodges, Jean Claude, or Mr. Dalrymple. Presumably, the power a being has, the more power it takes to lock them out of a bubble to stopped time.

Time Stop Mechanics

Here are my key takeaways from analyzing these four scenes:

Crowley isn’t so much freezing all of time as pulling himself and Aziraphale (and sometimes Adam) out of the flow of time. The effort this takes is dependent on the entities that they are “pulling away” from. It is easy to pull away from humans, so much so that they don’t have to pull away very far and can occupy the same space in a bubble of paused time. When he is “pulling away” from Satan, however, he must pull away much further, all the way to another plane.

Crowley’s ability is so powerful that he can use it to escape Satan. He could use it to lock out other powerful beings, if he wanted to, but it would take a lot of effort.

Aziraphale, a being with power somewhere on the spectrum between human and Satan, could be frozen by Crowley’s powers. The fact that Aziraphale is still present and active during all of these scenes, unaffected by the time stop is only indicative of Crowley’s choice to exempt him, just as he does with a hypnotized Mary Hodges and Adam.

Crowley has stopped time on Aziraphale

In a previous post I have addressed the possible symbolic meaning behind the Honolulu Roast sign that suddenly appears behind Crowley in the S2E1 coffee shop scene. This addresses the symbolic meaning of Honolulu with respect to Aziraphale, but fails to address the “roast” part, which I have the opportunity to do now. I begin by establishing two premises:

Crowley loves Aziraphale and after 6,000 years knows him very well.

Crowley is a dick.

Crowley sits down at the table across from Aziraphale and asks him what the problem is. At this point, there is no “Honolulu Roast” sign behind him. The camera flips to Aziraphale as he (badly) tries to deny that there is any problem. When the camera flips back to Crowley, a “today’s special: Honolulu Roast” sign has appeared behind him.

What does Crowley do next?

Crowley roasts Aziraphale.

Crowley proceeds to read Aziraphale to filth, rattling off all his tells and putting him in his place for even daring to think that he could mislead Crowley about his internal emotional state.

While we’ve seen a lot more of his soft side this season, we cannot forget that the demon Crowley, at the end of the day, is a prick. He really did pause time just so that he could go get a chalkboard, write a pun on it, and hang it on the wall behind him like a display card for open mic night. He’s still going to help Aziraphale, of course. But he’s going to make fun of him first.

Let me reiterate: Crowley literally paused time, got up from the table, put up this sign, then sat back down in (as close to) exactly the same position (as possible) to fool Aziraphale into not noticing the pause, because this joke is entirely for Crowley’s own amusement. We have some cinematographic evidence of this besides just the sign itself: the lamp behind him has moved slightly, and the camera angle focusing on Crowley has changed. Literally, the left hand side of the frame gets cut off due to the repositioning. From a production perspective, this scene would have been shot all at the same time, so should not have changed angles. That said, they did a by-hand follow-in of Crowley walking in and sitting down, then switched to a dolly, but… I have faith that they could have matched the shot line-up practically pixel for pixel if they wanted to. All to say: changing the camera position before and after, alongside the other conspicuous changes, seems like it was a deliberate framing choice used to indicate that Crowley tried his best to get back into exactly the same position, but was just a little off.

But Crowley’s prank is troubling from a perspective of honesty and agency. Based on the way the dialogue progresses, it seems pretty clear that Aziraphale doesn’t know that he was frozen. Whether or not Crowley could freeze Aziraphale was beside the point until this scene where we learn that Crowley would, even for a really dumb reason like making a joke at Aziraphale’s expense.

Before moving on, I want to note that the sudden appearance of this sign could be characterized as a continuity error, even though it was the result of a deliberate action by an in-world character. Jettison your traditional understanding of “continuity error” as “production made a mistake.” In this universe, we can have continuity errors by virtue that Aziraphale is experiencing time as if it is continuous, not noticing that he functionally blacked out for a few minutes and that things have changed around him. This is not a show-level continuity error. This is an Aziraphale-level continuity error.

Crowley can reverse time

Credit where credit is due: it was this comment on the Ao3 version of my meta, The Erasure of Human!Metatron, that became an earworm that got me thinking specifically about Crowley's abilities:

So thank you, LoveIsLove <3

Let’s go back to the Mary Hodges scene, or actually a few minutes before. Our ineffable idiots get shot by paintballs.

“Look at the state of this coat. I've kept this in tip-top condition for over 180 years now. I'll never get this stain out.”

“You could miracle it away.”

“Hmm… Yes, but… well, I would always know the stain was there. Underneath, I mean.”

Aziraphale finagles himself a favor without ever actually asking for it. Full points, princess. But let’s examine the actual content of the dialogue. This cannot be a complete 100% bluff; Aziraphale is not going to tell a straight lie to Crowley that they both know is false about the respective nature of their powers. It must be the case that there is some truth to this statement. There is a fundamental difference between what Aziraphale can do about the paintball stain and what Crowley is actually going to do about it. Furthermore, what Crowley does is something different than a miracle.

Crowley then blows on the stain, it disappears, and Aziraphale looks quite pleased. Yes, yes, he cajoled Anthony J Acts of Service Crowley into doing his signature move, but also, he’s genuinely thankful that Crowley did something for him that he couldn’t do for himself, because miracles don’t work like that. Notably, Crowley doesn't snap his fingers or make any other gesture that we normally associate with miracles, and we don’t hear the miracle sound, which is further evidence that this is not a miracle, but something different.

If you haven’t already, please read my meta entitled Jimbriel, Satan, the Book of Life, and what it means for Crowley. It explains in depth and with evidentiary support my theory about how erasure works in the Good Omens universe. The Cliff’s notes version is that erasing something, whether it be a name from the Book of Life or a paintball from a coat, is akin to erasing a pencil mark on paper; it’s technically gone but you’ll always know it was there. Underneath.

What Crowley has done, then, is not erasing the paintball stain.

He’s reversed it.

When he blows on the paintball stain, he is reversing time in a microcosm of the universe, truly making it so that the paintball never hit the jacket. In a world full of rubber erasers, Crowley has the only Control-Z. When things are “erased” by the Book of Life, they are changed, but when Crowley reverses something, they never happened (making Beelzebub’s description of the Book of Life actually a more accurate description of Crowley’s power). It is something unique that Crowley can do that Aziraphale can’t, and we haven’t seen any evidence of any other celestial being pausing or reversing time. Please feel free to reblog with links to relevant meta if I’m wrong about that.

In true Neil Gaiman style, Crowley using this power to do something mundane like get rid of paintball paint was an incredibly benign and subtle way to indicate that Crowley has an immense, untapped power that we have not yet seen him use for any major purpose. 

I repeat: we didn’t see him use it. Because usually, like Aziraphale, we the audience are exempt from the time freeze, and we get to watch what happens. But this time, we were frozen out with Aziraphale.

Clock Theory revisited: a reinterpretation of “continuity error”

A summary of clock theory

Neil Gaiman’s ask and answer on clock theory

Neil Gaiman responded to an ask about the clock jumping forward from 9:25 to 9:40 before and after the kiss with a single sentence: “It’s a continuity error, I’m afraid.”

In the usual manner, Neil is not lying, but he is relying on you making an incorrect interpretation of his seemingly straightforward and innocuous but actually ambiguous and incredibly meaningful statement. As I stated with regards to the Honolulu Roast chalkboard sign, do not interpret “continuity error” as “production made a mistake.” Interpret “continuity error” as “Aziraphale believes that his experience of time is in lockstep with the actual flow of time and doesn’t realize that 11 minutes passed while he was frozen.”

Let’s consider the evidence:

Image at timestamp 41:04 “[Hold that thought!]” the clock reads 9:25

Image at 45:04 “If Gabriel and Beelzebub can go off together, then we can” the clock still reads 9:25

Image at 47:56 the clock now reads 9:40. 

Image at 48:14 the clock reads 9:40

There are two four-minute gaps, from the perspective of the viewer, and we have views of the clock face at both ends of each gap.

Gap 1, from 41:04 to 45:04, the clock hands do not move at all, nor do they in any of the intervening shots.

Gap 2, from 45:04 to 47:56 (or 48:14, as you prefer), the clock hands move 15 minutes.

The Occam’s razor, Doylian explanation for why the clock hands don't move from 41:04 to 45:04 is that the clock is a prop. It does not have any timekeeping mechanism, the hands don’t move unless some human being opens up the glass, reaches in there, and manually adjusts it. They weren’t going to interrupt filming this moving scene to move the clock hands minute by minute, so it seems pretty plausible that the fact that it doesn’t move is just an artifact of production limitations.

The Watsonian explanation, which I do not favor, is that Crowley has frozen time for just the two of them. They are in a microcosm all their own. If true, this would have an abundance of implications, such that they are actually free to speak to each other freely, which they don’t. So I feel like with that alone, we can set this aside, but I’m open to being convinced otherwise.

If we accept the “clock is a prop” explanation for Gap 1, it doesn’t really hold for Gap 2 that they moved it a full fifteen minutes. So much care and attention to detail was given for all other parts of this show; I don’t realistically believe that a production staff member moved the hands a random amount. The music carries us from Crowley’s exit to Metatron’s entrance seamlessly, yet more time seems to have passed in-world than on-screen. There are two possible explanations:

There was more material that was supposed to be filmed to account for 15 minutes that got cut

We are supposed to figure out that there’s some “Greek play” style shenaniganery afoot

I will debunk explanation #1 with simply this: David’s contact lenses would sometimes rotate so that the slit pupils were not vertical. This error was fixed by VFX in post.

You might assume, when watching Good Omens, that Crowley’s serpent-like eyes are created using contact lenses. Or perhaps you’d presume they’re CGI. Actually, they’re a mix of both.

“The CGI versions were usually because the contact lenses had swiveled in David’s eyes … and we had to fix it,” says Mackinnon.

If they could fix Crowley’s eyes in post, there is absolutely no reason to expect that they couldn’t or wouldn’t have fixed the clock hand positions in post, especially if it was someone’s job to reach in there and change the positions to try to maintain set continuity in the first place. Additionally, there is deliberate use of clocks to symbolize various themes across both seasons. A Doylian error like this is not something that would have been overlooked and survived into publication.

So we are left with explanation #2. Time has passed that we, the viewers, don’t observe. What was happening during that time that we missed? More importantly, who knows that this time has passed? Aziraphale doesn’t seem to, and it’s unclear what the Metatron does or doesn’t know.

Some fans have posited that the Metatron is doing the time manipulations, but canonically, the only entity we have observed manipulate time is Crowley. We assume the Metatron is powerful because the angels are all afraid of him, but we’ve never actually seen him do anything, and so have no primary evidence for this. All over, he’s got some big “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” Wizard of Oz vibes happening; I’m not convinced he could miracle his way out of a wet paper bag, and there’s a chance that in Season 3 we’ll find out that he’s all bluff. Not so with Crowley.

My hypothesis is that Crowley froze Aziraphale and everybody else for a one block radius, including the Metatron, and did something important in the bookshop before it lost its protection. Please see my meta on Sovereignty, Citizenship, and the Bookshop for an evidence-based argument on why the bookshop was the only place in the universe that Crowley could have safely hidden something. Since Aziraphale is no longer the head of an independent embassy, whatever Crowley was keeping safe in there isn’t safe anymore, and needs to be moved. Universe time continued to pass and the clock reflects that, but Aziraphale and the Metatron aren’t aware that they were paused.

Which also gives us a new interpretation for the kiss.

The Kiss, revisited

Crowley didn’t want to send Aziraphale a message.

Crowley needed a plausible cover for the immense effort it was going to take him to freeze time against Aziraphale and the Metatron that he knew was standing outside.

How do I know he knew?

No nightingales.

Juliet. Wilt thou be gone? it is not yet near day:

It was the nightingale, and not the lark,

That pierced the fearful hollow of thine ear;

Nightly she sings on yon pomegranate-tree:

Believe me, love, it was the nightingale.

Romeo. It was the lark, the herald of the morn,

No nightingale: look, love, what envious streaks

Do lace the severing clouds in yonder east:

Night's candles are burnt out, and jocund day

Stands tiptoe on the misty mountain tops.

I must be gone and live, or stay and die.

No nightingales could be the end of a romance. I argued as much in my inaugural meta just six weeks ago (and what a six weeks it has been, people!) But “no nightingales” could also be a secret signal to two people who have a unique bond through Shakespeare that Crowley has realized he is not safe, and he needs to leave, and he’s trying to tell Aziraphale that without letting their spectator in on the message.

Now he has to stop time to secure whatever item he’d been keeping safe in the bookshop. But keeping Satan at bay required him to lunge upwards, using his whole body to freeze time. He can’t get away with anything like that here in the bookshop, that would give up the ruse.

But what if he lunged at the person everyone knows he’s in love with and violently kisses them on the mouth, his entire body tense with the effort of freezing time in the presence of two ethereal beings? No one would notice the difference, or think anything nefarious of it; a Class A surreptitious time-stop.

One last crackpot theory.

Aziraphale knows what Crowley did. Well, he knows that he froze time, and for the first time realizes that Crowley has locked him out, and that he used the kiss as a cover. The violation of agency, trust, and their romantic bond are all breaking across him in the instant that time restarts, after Crowley has gone away for 11 minutes and returned to almost, but not quite, the same position inside Aziraphale’s arms. It is an intimate act that Aziraphale is fully tuned into, and for the first time, he’s noticing the continuity errors.

His horror-filled expression is one of broken trust. But his bond to Crowley is too strong for even this to break it. He knows that whatever reason Crowley had to pull this trick on him, it must have been a good one. It must have been to protect him.

“I forgive you.”

***

One more completely crackpot theory based on the Gavin Finney interview at The Ineffable Con last weekend.

The camera was supposed to circle them. Finney says that this was to show that they are the center of their universe, and their world is spinning.

Okay, okay. But could it not also have represented the spinning of clock hands? I’m just saying.

Closing obligatory "do not put anything about this in Neil Gaiman's askbox"

Find my entire collection of metas here

[ifitmeanslosingyouthenno]

no wait wait

greys anatomy au

in which neil's life goes VERY differently, nathan isnt a serial killer, there’s no mafia or anything behind him, and exy exists but it's not the focus of his life no

he just really wants to be a surgeon

nathan is still very abusive and both mary and nathan are famous surgeons idk

and they live with nathan until he almost kills neil one time and the neighbors call the cops because they hears a huge commotion and wrre worried

but anyway

nathan is locked up behind bars, they move states (cali maybe?), neil does pre med and then he goes to med school and

and mary gets diagnosed with early onset alzheimers, and its advancing very very fast

neil changes his name at some point, obviously not wanting to be wesninski, but not wanting the fame of the hatford last name either

and since mary barely recognizes him anymore why not drop both last names anyway

so neil josten is born

and he gets in the residency program in palmetto, known for its excellent surgeon program despite its slightly problematic history

the first night neil gets to palmetto, he goes to a random bar bc he's fucking nervous and he's leaving mary at a nursing home and he cant believe he's gotten this far

a couple hits on him at the bar tho, and well he's never swung before for anyone, but something about these men lures him in that he can't help but be just as into them as they seem into him

they talk and talk and talk for such a long time, and eventually when they ask him if he wants to go home with them he says yes and well yeah lmao he gets literally railed an inch from his life thst night, its literally the best day of his entire life

the next morning he runs out of there before they get up because he panics bc he actually wants these men and he CANT have anyone, bc he has too much baggage in his mind and he's scared and-

and he starts his internship that morning so he rushes to his shitty apartment and rushes to get ready and he runs to the hospital he's going to be working on for the next like 6 years and oh shit

oh no

ohhhhh no

the men are here

they WORK here

they are both his SUPERIORS

kevin is THE kevin day first year neurosurgeon fellon who invented a method to cure xxx in his residency

and andrew is andrew minyard, the medical student with the highest score on the xxx test, remarkable despite still being a surgical resident and oh fuck

they both work here

neil is fucked

[elene78-blog]

I think that after the jerejean and the andreil, my favorite ship would be the jeaneil.

Okay, just think about this idea.

Nathaniel was thrown into the Nest shortly after Jean, because Nathan finds Mary and kills her. Jean is still number 3 and Nathaniel is number 4. Nathaniel is a mad dog that Riko cannot tame, and Jean, although he has been relatively docile after the first 5 months there completely alone, regains some of his initial fierceness because Nathaniel infected him with yours.

They both suffer the "domestication" of those 5. Nathaniel stops being so haughty because he knows that Jean will suffer the consequences, but Jean, not being alone and being able to talk to someone in the same situation, someone as fierce as his companion, does not lose hope or rebellion. The two lower their heads in front of Riko, but they are not finished. They are a firm pillar for each other.

Jean doesn't try to commit suicide because he has a partner. The two of them are together in this torture.

When the Ravens overtake Neil on the court after Jean's growth spurt, Jean attacks them with violent tackles and hurts them so much that they don't try again. When Grayson becomes “infatuated” with Jean after being "domesticated," Nathaniel puts rat poison in his food, causing a severe ulcer and burns to her digestive tract. The Ravens are much more careful about what they say and do, because they know that Nathaniel is unpredictable and unhinged.

Everything is going "fine", but then Kevin starts giving Jean postcards, magnets, starts distracting the other Ravens so they can take a break from the beatings they receive, and he asks Jean to teach him French.

Jean accepts because she really likes Kevin. Nathaniel doesn't see anything strange at first because Kevin is the player he admires the most, but when he sees Jean smiling looking at his postcards, Nathaniel feels bad.

He can't give Jean postcards because he's locked up there, just like him. And those magnets... why do they want magnets for anyway? They are stupid.

He doesn't understand why Jean looks at Kevin so much, nor at some girls on the team that way. Is it because of sex? They "tamed" him and it was horrible and humiliating, why would he care after that?

But Jean keeps getting postcards while Nathaniel gives her the ones he gets because Kevin is an idiot and he doesn't want his damn gifts out of pity.

Jean and Nathaniel fight more and more. Nathaniel warns Jean about Kevin. Warn him that he is too close to Riko and that Riko won't like Jean looking at Kevin so much. He tells him that Kevin is with Thea. He tells him that Kevin is not going to get him out of there to show him the places on his damn postcards.

Jean tells Nathaniel that he wants them both to go with Kevin when they graduate. Nathaniel yells for Jean to go with him, because he doesn't plan to go with them.

Nathaniel and Jean stop talking to each other.

And then, it happens.

Riko breaks Kevin's hand. Kevin speaks in French in front of Riko with Jean, he asks Jean to distract him and Kevin leaves.

Riko and Tetsuji believe that Jean is complicit in Kevin's escape.

Riko lunges at Jean like a madman and Nathaniel gets between the two, but Riko no longer has a partner to calm him down and it's pure anger.

Nathaniel is sent to solitary confinement for three months because Riko knows that he is the influence bothering Jean's taming. Nathaniel almost lost his mind in there thinking about what they were doing to his partner while he was gone. He becomes unhinged, crazy. He hasn't been a day without Jean around in years and he's starting to lose his mind. Having no one talk to you for three months in a dark room does not help your mental stability.

Jean is all broken bones, deep cuts, and panicking over the water when Nathaniel comes out. His rebellion has faded and Nathaniel doesn't know if he will get it back.

Nathaniel can't do anything against Riko and Tetsuji, because if he tries, they will attack his partner. He doesn't want anyone to get close to his partner after this. But Nathaniel needs someone to hate.

Nathaniel swears he will kill Kevin Day for what he has done.

(English is not my native language, sorry).

[neilljcsten]

to be know is to be seen and neil has spent his life with his feet firmly planted in the shadows. stefan, chris, and alex; cheap box dye and contacts; the changing of routines with each city. he wonders where the lies end and he begins. maybe, neil thinks, it’s better to not know.

telling the foxes everything after baltimore leaves him untethered - truth is not a familiar taste on his tongue.

on bad days, the secrets he’s given up since arriving in palmetto haunt him. his mind whispers don’t be seen don’t be known; once they know you, you can’t run. he feels mary’s hands tugging his hair, the sting of the slaps received for saying too much. his chest feels heavy and his feet itch to run. except.

dan meets him after class with a black coffee. matt keeps the fridge stocked with fruit, no vegetables in sight. allison keeps concealer in his shade for the next time he runs his mouth. kevin finds him to talk about the last trojans game.

sometime during his second year, he joins andrew on the rooftop. matching arm bands sharing cigarettes, fingers intertwined. neil leans into andrew, into the first person who saw him and didn’t look away until he worked his way through all the lies and half truths until he found abram.

neil realizes then, that to be known is to be loved. and he’s known.