#níniel

[riding-with-the-wild-hunt]

"In the first beginning of the year Morwen gave birth to her child, the daughter of Húrin; and she named her Nienor, which is Mourning." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, "Of Túrin Turambar"

[ID: an edit comprised of six posters in muted shades of grey, brown, white, and green.

1: A close-up of Charlotte Carey Tampubolon, an indonesian-british model with light brown skin and bleached hair. She is looking at the viewer with one hand raised to her face, and wears a jeweled ring and earrings. White text in the center of the image reads "niënor," and below it in cursive, "mourning" / 2: Rapids and a steep waterfall among outcroppings of rock and a few conifers. Same format as Image 1, but the text reads "níniel" and "tear-maiden" / 3: The hand of a white marble statue, reaching out from beneath sculpted robes. Same text as Image 2 / 4: A tan-skinned person in a white dress walking away from the viewer amidst tall shrubbery. Same text as Image 1 / 5: A close-up of the eye of an alligator. It is yellow with a slit pupil. Same text as Image 4 / 6: Charlotte Carey Tampubolon, this time facing the viewer with her hair fluffed out around her face and a worried expression. Same text as Image 3 //End ID]

[paula-zotter]

Looking down upon Túrin she cried:

'Farewell, O twice beloved! A Túrin Turambar turun ambartanen: master of doom by doom mastered! O happy to be dead!'

[sea-of-machines]

I went to check Níniel's page on Tolkien Gateway and this was sending me although it's not funny

[who-needs-words]

Listen listen. You’ve probably heard of Finduilas/Nienor and maybe you’ve heard of Nellas/Nienor. I’m proud to introduce Finduilas/Nienor/Nellas.

Timelines don’t matter when you have two immortal elves. They [spins wheel] save Elurín and Eluréd and raise them before [spins wheel] Finduilas becomes Gil-galad.

This is coherent and definitely not me throwing darts at a board labeled ‘fun silm AUs’

[anghraine]

Another Tolkien rant before I (finally!!) go back to BG3:

By and large, heredity and ethnicity in Tolkien cannot be understood through blood quantum logic. I don't think this is even seriously debatable, really—it does not work.

Yes, Imrahil of Dol Amroth is many generations removed from his nearest Elvish ancestor. Yes, he's still visibly part-Silvan to someone like Legolas, and is Silvan-style pretty to everyone else, and his sister was mystically susceptible to Mordor's miasma and died of sea-longing.

Yes, Théoden has as much Númenórean ancestry as Eldacar, a literal Númenórean King of Gondor, and has the same Elvish ancestor as Imrahil. No, Théoden is not a Dúnadan and does not inherit Silvan features. Tolkien specifically contrasted the visible Silvan Elvish heritage of Imrahil and his nephews Boromir and Faramir with Théoden and Éomer's lack of them, though in some versions, Éomer inherited remarkable height from his Númenórean ancestry (but not specifically Elvish qualities like beardlessness).

The only known member of the House of Eorl to markedly inherit the distinctive Elvish appearance of the House of Dol Amroth is Elfwinë, son of Imrahil's daughter Lothíriel as well as of Éomer, and Elfwinë's appearance is attributed firmly to Lothíriel-Imrahil rather than Théodwyn-Morwen.

Aragorn and Denethor are descendants of Elendil removed by dozens of generations, and Elendil himself was many generations removed from Elros. Aragorn and Denethor's common heritage and special status results in a strong resemblance and kinship between these incredibly distant cousins, including innate beardlessness and various powers inherited from Lúthien, and a connection to the Maiar presumably derived from Lúthien's mother Melian (great-great-grandmother of their very distant ancestor Elros).

Galadriel has one Noldo grandparent (half as much Noldorin heritage as Théoden has Númenórean). She has ties to her Telerin and Vanyarin kin and inherits some of their traits (most notably her silvery-gold hair), but she is very fundamentally a Noldo.

Túrin Turambar is a member—and indeed, heir—of the House of Hador via patrilineality. However, he's strongly coded as Bëorian in every other way because of his powerful resemblance to his very Bëorian mother, while his sister Niënor is the reverse, identified strongly with Hadorian women and linked to their father, whom she never met.

Elrond and Elros have more Elvish heritage than anything else, but are defined as half-Elves regardless of choosing mortality or immortality. In The Nature of Middle-earth, Tolkien casually drops the bombshell that Elros's children with his presumably mortal partner also received a choice of mortality vs immortality (and then in true Tolkien style, breezed onto other, less interesting points). Elrond and his sons with fully Elvish Celebrían are referred to as Númenóreans as well as Elves, with Elladan and Elrohir scrupulously excluded from being classed as Elves on multiple occasions. Their sister Arwen, meanwhile, is a half-Elf regardless of how much literal mortal heritage she has but also is identified with the Eldar in a way they never are.

There's a letter that Tolkien received in which a fan asks how Aragorn, a descendant of Fíriel of Gondor, could be considered of pure Númenórean ancestry when Fíriel was a descendant of Eldacar, the "impure" king whose maternal heritage kicked off the Kinstrife. Tolkien's response is essentially a polite eyeroll (and understandably for sure), but it's not like ancestry that remote (or far more so) doesn't regularly linger.

The point, I guess, is that there's no hard and fast rule here that determines "real" ethnicity in Middle-earth or who inherits what narrative identification. It's clearly not dependent on purebloodedness (gross rhetoric anyway, but also can't be reconciled with ... like, anything we see). It's not based on upbringing or culture alone. Túrin and Niënor, for instance, are powerfully identified with the Edain narratively despite their upbringings. Their double cousin Tuor, however, is a more ambiguous figure in terms of the Elves, whom he loves and lives among and possibly even joins in immortality—yet Tuor's half-Elf son Eärendil, whose cultural background is overwhelmingly Elvish, is naturally aligned with Men and only chooses immortality for his wife's sake.

Elladan and Elrohir, as mentioned above, are sons of an Elf, Celebrían, and of Elrond, a half-Elf who chose immortality and established a largely Elvish community at Rivendell. But the twins have a centuries-long affinity with their mortal Dúnadan kin and delay choosing a kindred to be counted among long after Arwen's choice.

Patrilineal heritages are more often than not given priority, which has nothing to do with how much of X blood someone has, only which side it comes from. Queen Morwen's children and descendants are emphatically Rohirrim who don't ping Legolas's Elvishness radar (though Elfwinë might, later on; we're not told). King Eldacar is firmly treated as a Dúnadan with no shortening of lifespan or signs of Northern heritage. Finwë's children and grandchildren are definitionally Noldor.

But this is by no means absolutely the case. The Elvishness of the line of Dol Amroth is not only inherited from Mithrellas, a woman, but passes to some extent to Boromir and Faramir through their mother Finduilas. Denethor and Aragorn's descent from Elros primarily comes through Silmariën, a woman (and also through Rían daughter of Barahir and Morwen daughter of Belecthor for Denethor, and Fíriel daughter of Ondoher for Aragorn). And of course, Elros's part-Maia heritage that lingers among his descendants for thousands of years derives from women, Lúthien and Melian.

So there's not some straightforward system or rule that will tell you when a near or remote ancestor "matters" when it comes to determining a character's identity, either to the character or to how they're handled by the narrative. Sometimes a single grandparent, or great-grandparent, or more distant ancestor, is fundamental to how a character is treated by the story and understands themself. Sometimes a character is so completely identified with one parent that the entire other half of their heritage is negligible to how they're framed by the story and see themself. It depends!

[theworldsoftolkein]

Niënor Níniel

[bretwalda-lamnguin]

One of the most heartbreaking things for me about Túrin and Nienor is that Nienor, unlike a lot of characters, never seems taken in by the idea of Túrin as a great warrior. Most other characters praise and admire him for his skill at arms, but Nienor actively discourages him from war. She doesn't romanticise him for his bravery or actions, she loves him as he actually exists, the real man, not his image or myth. She doesn't want to be the wife of a great hero, she just wants Túrin to be with her, in safety and peace.

[findekano]

Just wanted to say your tags on that Niënor art are such a gut punch I love them

-@outofangband

i am having a normal one about niënor today... the glue of níniel & its dissolution after glaurung and how niënor can't be niënor anymore without níniel - níniel is the one who loved túrin and married him; her identity is tied up with a self that shouldn't have existed. niënor-níniel cannot be uncoupled without the whole person falling apart but to niënor, níniel is horrific and to níniel, niënor is bereft of a brother and a husband and a child.

who is she? who can she be? who should she be? she can't and won't decide.

[anghraine]

I was looking for a different old post on my blog and found your art for the Túrin/Tuor/Niënor AU! I hadn't thought about that AU in a long time, but this is still so cool <3

anghraine: hadorian OT3 

[velvet4510]

I don’t think any of us should ever overlook Celeborn’s love for Galadriel, because it’s really something.

Usually in Tolkien’s texts, it’s the girl following the guy. Lúthien followed Beren to Tol-in-Gaurhoth and Angband and later into death itself, Níniel followed Turambar to Cabed-en-Aras, Elwing followed Eärendil to Valinor, Éowyn followed Faramir to Ithilien, Arwen followed Aragorn to Gondor and later into death itself, etc. Not that this is a bad thing, not at all. (It should never be deemed disempowering for a woman to follow a man she loves and who loves her and treats her right, if that is her choice.) But overall, considering the wide variety of couples in Middle-earth, it does get repetitive sometimes.

Yet with these two, it’s the opposite. Celeborn always followed Galadriel.

When Galadriel departed Doriath, Celeborn went with her. He left all his kin behind to be with her. We don’t know for sure how his kin reacted to his relationship with a Noldo, but it could very well be that they eloped. She was just that important to him.

Then for the next 2 ages, they endured all sorts of trials and tribulations together across Middle-earth and eventually settled down in Lothlórien. There, Celeborn never tried to make Galadriel subservient to him. She had as much say in how things were run as he himself did. They were true co-rulers, equals in every way.

Then finally, Celeborn temporarily let Galadriel go. He was alright with her leaving on the White Ship to see their daughter and her parents and brothers again, while he stayed behind to finish what needed to be finished. He didn’t force her to stay with him when he himself could not (yet) leave. He didn’t hold her back from reuniting with people she loved and had lost so long ago.

And ultimately, Celeborn followed Galadriel once again. Though he was a Sinda born and bred, and never before had any desire to cross the Sea, he left his own homeland behind forever to reunite with her in her homeland. She still was just that important to him.

This guy was down bad for this girl. He lived his whole life drunk on wifeguy juice. Respect Celeborn.

[salmonhere]

!!! TW: suicide!!!

Fate of Nienor Níniel

My small old comic

[tolkienosaurus]

If you have a different favourite quote, choose your favourite one of these and then comment yours down below. Only dialogue quotes.

[bretwalda-lamnguin]

Thank you! I love your thoughts on this. Morgoth definitely isn't honest or consistent, I think you're right about him altering Húrin's perception day to day if he thinks it will hurt him more. I really hadn't considered Húrin's own mental state though, and how him being so deprived of kindness might make him more sympathetic to Túrin and Nienor. In that context restricting Húrin's view of their happier moments makes sense.

I’ve been having thoughts about Húrin’s vision being twisted by Morgoth and wondered if you might have any ideas about this? Particularly how he sees Túrin and Nienor’s relationship. Do you think Morgoth would show Húrin them being happy and caring for each other, and relying on the context of this to horrify Húrin? Or do you think he would be more likely to try and twist it, and portray it as an abusive relationship, e.g. Túrin taking advantage of Nienor? I’m wondering if in general Morgoth lets Húrin see his children being happy, so that the happiness being crushed has greater effect, or if he just tries to hide anything good about their lives. Morgoth can clearly alter some things (Húrin doesn’t know about the slaying of Glaurung until he reaches Brethil) but can he hide that much? And would he want to?

I think there are several possibilities here!

More in my Wanderings tag!

cw: canon incest, discussion of abuse, etc

-One is just blatant inconsistency. One day their relationship appears kind and loving and the next thing Húrin knows he’s watching abuse. Húrin likely saw Glaurung's attack on Niënor and Morwen and the aftermath of that, might have even seen it as it was until Túrin found her.

It's also worth noting that he can't read Túrin's mind, he doesn't know that Túrin truly doesn't know his sister. Perhaps Morgoth shows him things out of context that makes it appear as though Túrin does actually know her but is pretending ignorance to take advantage of her.

Morgoth is likely aware of this to some extent, he knows the basics of Húrin's mind and he's had lots of experience with captives. And he is also fully willing and delighted to twist this into something that he can hurt Húrin with still further.

-Another is that he doesn’t let Húrin watch too much of the actual happy moments. Morwen is still alive after all and he might still have other surviving distant kin who are suffering (on that note I’ve always wondered if Húrin saw any of Aerin’s suffering). Húrin might be aware of Túrin and Niënor���s relationship being a kind one, with as you said, only the context to horrify him, but he doesn’t get to see many of their actual peaceful moments

Húrin has been a captive for nearly three decades. That's half of his entire life. He is likely desperate for kindness in ways he doesn't even fully understand. He's had no contact but his tormentors for almost thirty years. I've talked about this in my Wanderings posts and on the extraordinary impact this would have on his psyche but I can imagine it making him more sympathetic to his children, even if he believed they knew. He doesn't know what he'd do or who he'd turn to just to feel as though he was anything but hunted and tormented without reprieve.

As for how much he can hide and if he wants to, I think that the question of how much he can hide is complicated. He can hide or obscure big events though I imagine even if Glaurung’s slaying is hidden, his final confrontation with Niënor is not. I think Morgoth would have wanted Húrin to see every part of that. If it was as disturbing as it was to me I cannot imagine how it must have been for Niënor’s father.

As for how much he wanted to I think honestly if it would further his torment, Melkor will do it. I don’t think he has much need for intellectual honesty or consistency here .

More on this specifically here and in my the Wanderings of Húrin tag

Thank you so much for the ask! I hope I don’t disappoint!

[thelien-art]

Nienor Níniel

That one time she ran through the forest :/

[ladyespera]

Niënor Níniel

[anghraine]

I just cleaned my kitchen and did some boring stuff for class, so that means I get to give myself the gift of another poll I won't vote in:

Vote for the best as siblings, not necessarily as best characters or best people.