#myth rambles
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Look what I found on a random table. Gravity Falls fans r everywhere (no complaints here lol)
#gravity falls#the pines family#the pines twins#dipper pines#mable pines#bill#ford#stan#stanford pines#my random stuff#random stuff#myth rants#myth rambles#rambles#my ramblings
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I think, perhaps one of the funniest things to come from EPIC popularising the Odyssey is that now a ton of people think Poseidon wanted to kill Odysseus.
In the Odyssey, Poseidon has no intention of killing Odysseus. In fact, part of the whole reason Zeus lets Poseidon do whatever he wants even though he thinks Odysseus is rad and should get to kiss his wife is explicitly because Poseidon had no intentions of killing Odysseus. Poseidon wanted to pay back the suffering/inconvenience blinding Polyphemus would have caused. It's a really abstract thing tbh. How do you pay back someone permanently disabling your son? Poseidon's solution was just to amputate Odysseus from his other half; i.e. Penelope. The end game was never murder, it was always an endurance race.
(Od. Book 1: Zeus reassuring Athena that he is not, in fact, a part of Odysseus Hater-Nation. Trans. Robert Fagles)
Also, for those wondering if there's any sort of in text reason for why Poseidon wasn't around in God Games - at the time in the Odyssey when Athena petitions Zeus to let Odysseus leave Calypso's island, Poseidon was -checks notes- on vacation in Ethiopia. Yep. He left to Ethiopia for a festival and thusly was very much absent for Athena's whole "please let Ody go? Please? 🥺" request.
(Od. Book 1: While Odysseus was suffering, Poseidon went to party in the east)
I am begging y'all to read the Odyssey. It's a comedy for everyone except Odysseus and Penelope who are, in fact, suffering 24/7 365.
#ginger rambles#ginger chats about greek myths#Sorry for the quality of the quotes but I'm too tired to google a pdf vers of the Odyssey and then edit those so y'all are getting#my crunchy pictures from one of my physical copies of the book lol#it's reiterated multiple times that Poseidon doesn't want Odysseus dead too#he is literally just driving him mad on the ocean because that's what Odysseus condemned Polyphemus to by blinding him#Also there's no good way to mention this but the Odyssey starts#by Zeus lamenting how mortals blame all their troubles and miseries on the gods when that's just not fair#because the gods go out of their way to warn the mortals that will be saddled with the most wretched fates#and they ignore the gods and do whatever they want anyway LMFAO#It's a really smart way to tie in the whole Orestes plot that would have wrapped up in between Odysseus getting stranded on Ogygia#and Odysseus getting off of Ogygia#epic the musical#epic the wisdom saga#zeus#athena#odysseus#poseidon#the odyssey
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Strong Hearts are Mandatory tier list based on their huggability.
Teelia approved.
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When I think about Gale and Mystra, I'm reminded of the Greek myth of the moon goddess who fell in love with a shepherd and asked Zeus to place him in an enchanted sleep, so that he would never change. So he would be beautiful and hers forever.
There are different versions of the myth, but this is the one I knew as a kid - and it always made me so fucking sad. And now I see why, because Selene loves Endymion - and her love takes his life from him. A god could not love Endymion as a mortal loves a mortal; she wants his presence to gaze on, to soak in, his body to hold. Perhaps he's a balm to her immortal existence; perhaps his beauty is an inspiration to her - but she does not want him, not all of him, not really. She doesn't want his sheep flock, the evenings where his fingers burn from the cold. She doesn't want his voice, or the lines and experience he'll gather as he ages. She doesn't want to live a life alongisde his.
Selene would say she loves Endymion, and perhaps, yes, Mystra would say she loved Gale. But how can a god love a mortal in a way that a mortal can recognise as love? You soak up his company, you laugh with him, you value his mind and his talent and his deftness with words. His presence is a spot of bright difference in your endless existence. But will you change with him? Will you be vulnerable with him? Will you look him in the eye, as an equal? Will you stroke his cat and put a blanket over his shoulder when he falls asleep reading, make soup for him when he's sick? Would you love him as a person, not a treasure? You can't.
Gale wanted to be loved with a devotion to match his own. Mystra wanted him to live in the enchanted sleep of being hers, something to smile at and hold but never, never to live beside. And she knew - she must have known - how unequal their desires were. She kept him anyway, until she didn't. Until he woke up.
A god's love ruins mortals.
#myth of endymion my beloved. it's a fucking tragedy. compels me though.#bg3#bg3 spoilers#gale dekarios#gale of waterdeep#mystra#(love that 'fuck mystra' was the first tag suggestion when I wrote her name)#pls forgive me for going on weird poetic ramblings on main
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"but Pyramids of Mars established that Sut-" my friend this is the three-separate-explanations-for-Atlantis show, as far as I'm concerned they can have a free-for-all when it comes to real-world mythology
"but they're ruining the canon!!" buddy I got good news for you, Doctor Who canon is a buffet and you don't have to eat anything you don't want to
#to be clear this is NOT about disliking whatever they're doing with Sutekh#I'm going to try and watch Pyramids of Mars this week and I may hate the direction they choose to go in in the finale! who knows!#I wasn't a fan of a bunch of the choices they made for the Toymaker (though that is slightly different in that it's not a real world myth)#but there's a specific type of comment I've been seeing mostly in youtube comments which. yeah dead dove etc#but people getting worked up over the One True Canon is like. you know what show this is right??#I personally choose to ignore the buffet dish that is the First Doctor in Twice Upon A Time#anyway peace and love#the legend of ruby sunday#the empire of death#pyramids of mars#doctor who#dw spoilers#ramblings
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kicks down everyone's door folks I might have figured out how tall Sun Wukong/Destined One is in Black Myth Wukong.
Starting with a disclaimer that this is just my speculation and nothing is confirmed unless the dev state otherwise
So y'know how the collector's edition came with this amazing Wukong figurine:
amazing right? I want one too.
The description states that the figure is 40cm tall (according to playasia)
The figure is made by Queen Studio, specifically the INART team that makes 1:6 figures.
So we know that the figure is 40cm tall. It is not clear if that includes stand or not, and I was not able to find any information how tall the stand is
On another website (which I don't want to name because I don't know how serious the website is) lists up the figure as 315mm/31.5cm
If that is the height of the actual figure without stand, and it's a 1:6 figure, that means 31.5cm * 6 = 189 cm
So that means it is very possible Destined One/Sun Wukong is 189 cm / 6 feet 2 inch tall.
that is TALL. a lot taller than I thought he would be tbh LOL cause in the books he is usually described as the shortest (cause well, monkey)
which ALSO means.
Wukong better be paying for her chiropractor with the amount of crancking her neck up she has to do.
#the ham talks#you know you are down bad when you go down a rabbit hole to figure out the height of a fictional character#just to see how big the height difference is between them and your OC#so yeah anyway. take this all witha grain of salt.#I love height difference but I also think it's cute if Wukong was a wee bit shorter than my OC#black myth wukong#sun wukong#sun wukong x oc#sun wukong x reader#black myth wukong x reader#black myth rambling
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Me grabbing somebody by the shoulders and shaking them back and forth:
No, you don't understand, don't just focus on Patroclus as an aggressive warrior please, he was a complex character. Him being a healer was as important as him being a warrior
Don't let your irrational hate for a certain media blind you. he was a kind man, he was so kind even the horses loved him, ok?
He was a warrior, he was horrible in battle but he knew mercy and compassion outside of it
he was a kid that killed another kid, he was the only one to console Briseis, he was equal to Ares, he had 9 dogs, he entered a berserk state, he died alone
He could've have a peaceful life, he didn’t have to be another young man lost in war
Reducing him to just another aggressive warrior is as bad if not worse than making him a meek healer
Stop overglorifying violence, that's the point of the iliad don't you see? He was such an excellent warrior but that didn't save him from the horrors of war because nobody is safe from it and Glory is paid with blood of heroes and the grief of the innocent
PLEASEEEEE
#ramblings#greek mythology#tagamemnon#patrochilles#Patroclus#achilles#the iliad#trojan war#iliad#greek myth#also I'm not saying anything about how Patroclus nowadays is portrayed as a POC with dark skin and how I think that could be a factor#in a lot of people's portrayal of him as an extremely aggressive and violent soldier forgetting completely how he's supposed to be kind#I'm not saying anything about that#also I'm not answering any comments till tomorrow. I'm going to sleep#Goodnight#👍
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I love it when even Greek mythology also affects my music taste because what is this-
I- look man it's just good idk what to say
If you happen to know any other Greek mythology musicals please let me know I would love to add more to the collection :3
#[jackie rambles]#greek mythology#greek myth retellings#epic: the musical#epic the musical#warriors#warriors the musical#warriors musical#hadestown#lightning thief#percy jackson#pjo#percy jackon and the olympians#paris of troy#paris the musical#aristos the musical#aristos achaion#penelope the musical#how the odyssey is really written#the minotaur the musical#oh wow a lot of tags#if you haven't listened to any of these i highly recommend :)#they're ALL worth your time
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Respectfully, if I would live in Ancient Greece I would be SIGNIFICANTLY more scared by Dionysus than by Hades.
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I just realized...
The monkeys would be the most dangerous Yanderes (don't ask why this came to mind, it's one of my groggy morning brain thoughts). Like... Wukong D.O. (Destined One) Macaque (lmk only cause I have not seen him in any other adaptation.) AND MK TOO NGL
Just... Humor me for a moment.
It probably should be obvious. But it's not just danger levels from powers, but also their personality. Like, I can picture Mackie being on "Phantom of the Opera" type shit with his theater boi ass (what in the sweet heavens did I just type?)
Whereas, Wukong would be VERY clear on everything. He will not play around. Meanwhile the obsessive/possessiveness would probably just sneak up on MK. Like, he might not even realize it until he sees you around someone else and is like "Hold up- no. No, no, no. That's not right now, get back here."
D.O. on the other hand surprises you.
-------------- My thoughts/Headcanons
-------------- //Macaque\\
You can not convince me that this dramatic, petty, theater boy little shit (/aff) would not act like dude in "Phantom of the Opera". He probably would not make anyone sing, but dammit, he is manipulative and tricksy when he wants to be. And his shadow skills would make it easy to spy on you like bro in "Phantom of the Opera" does through the mirror. I don't know if he would set a theater on fire though- At most though, he'd be the stalker that tries to keep you safe. He does get possessive, but he would only kill if he had to. He's far more patient.
//Wukong\\
The yanderest of the yanderes in this list methinks, regardless of the version. Cause yeah no, bro is legit, book canonly, unhinged as is. He is already trigger happy to kill from the start. Yes, he does try, though not very hard, to talk things out. But there are certain things he won't even bother talking out. I feel, if yandere, this would be one of the things where peace was never an option. Like, I feel he would say, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" if you try to chastise him for killing someone who looked at you wrong hhh
//MK\\
^ See this? Totally not the face of a crazy person, right?
He is a little angel! There's the danger. He has absolutely no clue how crazy he himself can get, so... like Wukong, he is a loose cannon, but in a different way. There would be no warning signs until it's too late and he is covered in....
ketchup ^^ Yeah, that's what it is, don't worry, that person is just sleeping. Sleeping very, very, VERY still. In all seriousness, murder would not be his go to problem solving method. He is smarter than that, believe it or not. Murder is illegal, and would be highly counterproductive. He'd be aggressively affectionate. Lots and lots of gifts, hugs that are perhaps a tad clingy, things like that. (I do headcanon him as a hopeless romantic. So the tropey/cheesy romance things would be his natural go to)
His insecurities though, could build up and lead to an exploding steam pot if not careful. Basically... Give the boy your attention and he should be fine for the most part. Heavens forbid he catches you cheating though... No one will survive, not even him.
//D.O.\\
Speaks one or two words a year, legitimately one of the most calm individuals in any universe. I don't think anyone has ever seen him lose his shit. While Wukong is clearly unhinged, MK hyperactive, and Macaron is dramatic, this guy seriously comes out of nowhere if you don't know what to look for. He is open, his silence however hides that. The possessive/obsessive behavior would mostly show in his body language, expressions, and how he might hold you. If you don't pay attention, it will surprise you. That is, if he ever leaves any evidence for you to be concerned over :) After all, he knows you would not like it if you found out he killed someone who got too close. So why would he let his sweetheart find out...?
---------------------------- That's all! Have a nice day :D
#alexi rambles#early morning ramblings#lmk#lego monkie kid#lmk monkey king#lmk macaque#lmk mk#jttw#black myth wukong#destined one#sun wukong#liu'er mihou#qi xiaotian#yandere headcanons#phantom of the opera#lmk yandere mk#lmk yandere macaque#yandere wukong#yandere destined one
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Epic the Musical fans, I'm gripping you by the shoulders to tell you that Penelope has a sister who she is very very close with in the Odyssey who was named Iphitimene.
Not only a sister, but in each myth she is in, she has a lot of brothers. At least around 4 or 5.
The Potential for Eldest daughter Pen, Middle child Pen, and/or baby sister Pen is ENDLESS!!!
She is also half-naiad at the very least (in most myths) with her mother being a river nymph named Periboea. She can even be 3/4th naiad if you go with the myth of her father, Icarius, being the son of Bateia, another naiad.
#Mad rambles#shot by odysseus#was she close with Helen and eventually Ctimene? Yes. BUT SHE ALSO HAS SIBLIGNSSSS#please don't make my darling lonely ;~; she has many loved ones despite the shit that goes down in her life.#penelope of ithaca#penelope#penelope odyssey#odyssey#penelope of sparta#Water Wife#epic the musical#the odyssey#like I know Jay hasn't delved into her character much yet. but like... pwease🥺#she has SO much in her myths to possibly play with!!! It's so much funnnnn#(also possible angst options for possible brothers she lost in the war👀 as they likely would've been fighting under Menelaus)
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I can't watch heattstopper s3 until the 6th 😭😭😭😭 I'm gonna die I wanna watch it so baddddd
I get to watch it with my friend for the 1st time tho so yay!
#heartstopper#heartstopper season 3#heartstopper s3#heartstopper series#myth rambles#my rants#my random stuff
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In my Zeus bag today so I'm just gonna put it out there that exactly none of the great Ancient Greek warrior-heroes stayed loyal and faithful and completely monogamous and yet none of them have their greatness questioned nor do we question why they had the cultural prominence that they did and still do.
Jason, the brilliant leader of the Argo, got cold feet when it came to Medea - already put off by some of her magic and then exiled from his birthland because of her political ploys, he took Creusa to bed and fully intended on marrying her despite not properly dissolving things with Medea.
Theseus was a fierce warrior and an incredibly talented king but he had a horrible temper and was almost fatally weak to women. This is the man who got imprisoned in the Underworld for trying to get a friend laid, the man who started the whole Attic War because he couldn't keep his legs closed.
And we cannot at all forget Heracles for whom a not inconsiderable amount of his joy in life was loving people then losing the people around him that he loved. Wives, children, serving boys, mentors, Heracles had a list of lovers - male and female - long enough to rival some gods and even after completing his labours and coming down to the end of his life, he did not have one wife but three.
And y'know what, just because he's a cultural darling, I'll put Achilles up here too because that man was a Theseus type where he was fantastic at the thing he was born to do (that is, fight whereas Theseus' was to rule) but that was not enough to eclipse his horrid temper and his weakness to young pretty things. This is the man that killed two of Apollo's sons because they wouldn't let him hit - Tenes because he refused to let Achilles have his sister and Troilus who refused Achilles so vehemently that he ran into Apollo's temple to avoid him and still couldn't escape.
All four of these men are still celebrated as great heroes and men. All four of these men are given the dignity of nuance, of having their flaws treated as just that, flaws which enrich their character and can be used to discuss the wider cultural point of what truly makes a hero heroic. All four of these men still have their legacies respected.
Why can that same mindset not be applied to Zeus? Zeus, who was a warrior-king raised in seclusion apart from his family. Zeus who must have learned to embrace the violence of thunder for every time he cried as a babe, the Corybantes would bang their shields to hide the sound. Zeus learned to be great because being good would not see the universe's affairs in its order.
The wonderful thing about sympathy is that we never run out of it. There's no rule stopping us from being sympathetic to multiple plights at once, there's no law that necessitate things always exist on the good-evil binary. Yes, Zeus sentenced Prometheus to sufferation in Tartarus for what (to us) seems like a cruel reason. Prometheus only wanted to help humans! But when you think about Prometheus' actions from a king's perspective, the narrative is completely different: Prometheus stole divine knowledge and gifted it to humans after Zeus explicitly told him not to. And this was after Prometheus cheated all the gods out of a huge portion of wealth by having humans keep the best part of a sacrifice's meat while the gods must delight themselves with bones, fat and skin. Yes, Zeus gave Persephone away to Hades without consulting Demeter but what king consults a woman who is not his wife about the arrangement of his daughter's marriage to another king? Yes, Zeus breaks the marriage vows he set with Hera despite his love of her but what is the Master of Fate if not its staunchest slave?
The nuance is there. Even in his most bizarre actions, the nuance and logic and reason is there. The Ancient Greeks weren't a daft people, they worshipped Zeus as their primary god for a reason and they did not associate him with half the vices modern audiences take issue with. Zeus was a father, a visitor, a protector, a fair judge of character, a guide for the lost, the arbiter of revenge for those that had been wronged, a pillar of strength for those who needed it and a shield to protect those who made their home among the biting snakes. His children were reflections of him, extensions of his will who acted both as his mercy and as his retribution, his brothers and sisters deferred to him because he was wise as well as powerful. Zeus didn't become king by accident and it is a damn shame he does not get more respect.
#ginger rambles#ginger chats about greek myths#greek mythology#It's Zeus Apologist day actually#For the record Jason is my personal favourite of these guys#The argonauts are extremely underrated for literally no reason#And Jason's wit and sheer ability to adapt along with his piousness are traits that are so far away from what usually gets highlighted#with the typical Greek warrior-hero that I've just never stopped being captivated by him#Conversely I still do not understand what people see in Achilles#I respect him and his legacy I respect the importance of his tale and his cultural importance I promise I do#However I personally can't stand the guy LMAO#How do you get warned twice TWICE both by your mother and by Athena herself that going after Apollo's children is a bad idea#And still have the audacity to be mad and surprised when Apollo is gunning for Specifically You during the war you're bringing to His City#That You Specifically and Exclusively had a choice in avoiding#ACHILLES COULD'VE JUST SAID NO#I know that's not the point however so many other members of the Greek camp were simply casualties of Fate in every conceivable way man#Achilles looked at every terrible choice he could possibly make said “Well I'm gonna die anyway 🤷🏽” and proceeded to make the choice#so hard that he angered god#That's y'all's man right there#I left out Perseus because truthfully I don't actually know much about him#I haven't studied him even a fraction as much as I've studied some of the other big culture heroes and none of this is cited so i don't wan#to talk about stuff I don't know 100%#Anyway justice for Zeus fr#Gimme something give me literally anything other than the nonsense we usually get for him#This goes for Hera too btw#Both the king and queen of the skies are done TERRIBLY by wider greek myth audiences and it's genuinely disheartening to see#If y'all could make excuses for Achilles to forgive his flaws y'all can do it for them#They have a lot more to sympathise with I'll tell you that#(that is a completely biased statement; you are completely free and encouraged to enjoy whichever figures spark joy)#zeus
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We as a society need to start building lighthouses, castles, and remote stone cottages again
#we lost the vision#HOW am I supposed to be haunted#if I’m stuck in a modernist hellscape??????#where can a girl ramble around in isolation these days?????#where can I become a myth?????#smh#lighthouses#lighthouse#castle#cottagecore#seacore#aesthetic#my post
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Pose practice! ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
#these were actually pretty fun to do! ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶#lmk sun wukong#lmk macaque#lmk mk#lego monkie kid#lmk fanart#digital art#my art#I tried making mk’s outfit a mix of the two#shadowpeach#sorry Hetalia followers I have been on a wukong kick lately 😔#I like that little monkie man…#not just Lego but in general#yo I might do the black myth one next cuz that final boss had me giggling and kicking my feet#I literally looked like this 🤭 had to stop myself like GIRL GET UP. HAVE SOME DIGINITY 😭😭😭#either that game studio did not think about people with degradation kinks or they thought way too much of em#that boss was disreSPECTful#is young sage x og wukong a thing? if not they don’t call me a creator for nothin#it’s basically just clone fuckin to em anyway I’m pretty sure every iteration of wukong has done that already#including the jttw one#bet those parties on flower fruit mountain got fucking WILD#anyway here’s mk and his dads sorry bout the ramble :)#love that four ears headcanon for him that’s big brain#family bonding activity can just be one guy and his two divorced dads he’s trying to parent trap by himself#no I forgot their masks… o(-( cuz I usually just color them in…..no..
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Statistics of Apollo's Lovers
I was wondering just how unfortunate of a love-life our boy Apollo had, so - as one does - I did the research, math, and writing of said love-life.
such is the life of an adhd teen :)
In total, there are 59 people on this list. I have them separated into eight groups; Immortal, Immortal & Rejected, Lived, Died, Rejected & Died, Rejected & Cursed, Rejected & Lived, and who were Rejected by Apollo
Disclaimer: I am not a historian nor an expert in Greek Mythology, I am just a very invested nerd in Mythology, and in Apollo's mythology in general, and got curious about what his rap sheet actually looks like.
Sidenote: There will be some "lovers" not on this list. Reasons being;
No actual literary sources behind them
Said literary sources are dubious at best
Not enough information is given about the nature of their relationship to make an accurate take
So if somebody isn't on this list, it's because of one of those three reasons. Although there is still a chance I missed somebody! :)
Also, no RRverse lovers include in this list. Sorry my fellow ToA fans.
*I am currently missing about 4 other lovers, and will get them on here ASAP. Their inclusion, however, will not change the overall conclusion. 👍
(Edited 08/15/24 - ALL SECTIONS SOURCED)
Let's begin! :D
Immortal Lovers
Calliope: muse of epic poetry. Mother of Hymenaios and Ialemus (Pindar's 3rd Threnos) by Apollo.
Clio: muse of history
Erato: muse of love poetry
Euterpe: muse of music
Polyhymnia: muse of hymns/sacred poetry
Melpomene: muse of tragedy
Thalia: muse of comedy. Mother of the Corybantes (The Bibliotheca by Pseudo-Apollodorus) by Apollo.
Terpsichore: muse of dance
Urania: muse of astronomy
Boreas: the North Wind. The Boreads called Apollo "beloved of our sire" in Apollonius of Rhodes's Argonautica.
10 lovers total here.
9 Female, 1 Male
Immortal & Rejected
Hestia: goddess of the Hearth (Hymn to Aphrodite)
1 Interest. Female.
Lovers Who Lived:
Branchus: mortal shepherd, gifted prophecy (Conon's Narrations 33 & Callimachus's Iambus)
Rhoeo: mortal princess, eventually married an apprentice of Apollo (Diodorus Siculus's Bibliotheca historica 5.62 and Tzetzes on Lycophron 570)
Ourea: demigod daughter of Poseidon, dated Apollo during his punishment with Laomedon; had a son named Ileus, after the city of Troy (Hesiod's Catalogues of Women Fragment 83)
Evadne: nymph daughter of Poseidon, Apollo sent Eileithyia & (in some texts) the Fates to aid in their son's birth (Pindar's Olympian Ode 6)
Thero: great-granddaughter of Heracles, described as "beautiful as moonbeams" (Pausanias's Description of Greece 9)
Cyrene: mortal princess-turned-nymph queen, kick-ass lion wrangler, and mother of two of Apollo's sons - Aristaeus (a god) and Idmon (powerful seer) (Pindar's Pythian Ode 9.6 ff. and Nonnus's Dionysiaca and Callimachus's Hymn to Apollo 85)
Admetus: mortal king, took great care of Apollo during his second punishment, Apollo wingmanned him for Alcestis's hand - basically Apollo doted on him <3 (Callimachus's Hymn II to Apollo and Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.9.15 and Hyginus's Fabulae 50��51, and also written about by Ovid and Servius)
Hecuba: queen of Troy, together they had Troilus.
It was foretold that if Troilus lived to adulthood, Troy wouldn't fall - unfortunately, Achilles murdered Troilus in Apollo's temple. When the Achaeans burned Troy down, Apollo rescued Hecuba and brought her to safety in Lycia. (Stesichorus's Fr.108)
Hyrie/Thyrie: mortal. mothered a son by Apollo. Their son, Cycnus, attempted to kill himself after some shenanigans and his mother attempted the same. Apollo turned them into swans to save their lives. (Antoninus Liberalis's Metamorphoses 12 and Ovid's Metamorphoses 7.350)
Dryope: mortal. had a son named Amphissus with Apollo, who was a snake at the time. Later turned into a lotus flower, but it had nothing to do with Apollo so she's still on this list. (noncon; written by Ovid in Metamorphoses 8 CE/AD and later by Antoninus Liberalis in his own Metamorphoses sometime between 100-300 CE/AD)
Creusa: mortal queen. had a son named Ion with Apollo (Euripides's Ion). Please check out @my-name-is-apollo's post for more details because they make some good points about what's considered "rape" in Ancient Greece. I expand on this further at the end of the post.
Melia: Oceanid nymph. Had a son w/h Apollo named Tenerus. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.10.5–6)
Melia was said to be kidnapped, and her brother found her with Apollo. He set fire to Apollo's temple in an effort to get her back, but was killed. Melia and Apollo had two kids - but here's the interesting part. Melia was highly worshiped in Thebes, where her brother found her. She was an incredibly important figure in Thebes, especially when connected with Apollo. She and Apollo were essentially the parents of Thebes.
As I read over their story, it sounded like (to me, at least. it's okay if you think otherwise!) that Melia just absconded/eloped with Apollo.
Was kidnapping an equivalent to assault back then? Perhaps. But it's still debated on whenever or not that's true. However, one thing I've noticed reading up on these myths is that when Apollo does do something unsavory, the text says so.
It never says anything about Apollo doing anything to Melia. Her father and brother believe she was kidnapped, but, like mentioned previously, it seems far much more likely that she just ran off with her boyfriend or something.
But that's just my interpretation.
Moving on! :)
Iapis: a favorite lover. Apollo wanted to teach him prophecy, the lyre, ect. but Iapis just wanted to heal :) so Apollo taught him healing :) (Smith 1873, s.v. Iapis)
Aethusa: daughter of Poseidon & the Pleiad Alcyone. Mother of Linus and Eleuther. She is the great-great grandmother of Orpheus. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 3.10.1 and Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.20.2 and Suida, s.v. Homer's Of the Origin of Homer and Hesiod and their Contest, Fragment 1.314)
Acacallis: daughter of King Minos. there's a lot of variation on whether or not she had kids with Hermes or Apollo. Some say she had a kid with each. (Stephanus of Byzantium, s.v. Kydōnia (Κυδωνία and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 4.1492)
Chrysothemis: nymph queen who won the oldest contest of the Pythian Games - the singing of a hymn to Apollo. She had three daughters, and one of them is said to be Apollo's. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 10.7.2 and Hyginus's De Astronomica 2.25)
Corycia: naiad. had a son with Apollo. the Corycian Cave north of Delphi is named after her (Hyginus's Fabulae 161)
Leuconoe (also Choine or Philonis): daughter of Eosphorus, god of the planet Venus, and mother of the bard Philammon. (Hyginus's Fabulae 161) She was killed by Diana for her hubris.
Melaena (also Thyia or Kelaino): mother of Delphos, member of prophetic Thriae of Delphi. Priestess of Dionysus. (Herodotus's Histories 7.178.1)
Othreis: mothered Phager by Apollo, and later Meliteus by Zeus. (Antoninus Liberalis's Metamorphoses 13)
Stilbe: mother of Lapithus and Aineus by Apollo. (Diodorus Siculus's Library of History 4.69.1 and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 1.40 and Scholia on Apollonius Rhodius, 1.948)
Syllis (possible same as Hyllis, granddaughter of Heracles): mothered Zeuxippus by Apollo. (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 2.6.7)
Amphissa: Apollo seduced her in the form of a shepherd. They had a son named Agreus. (Ovid's Metamorphoses 6.103 and Hyginus's Fabulae 161)
(hey, has anybody else noticed that 'Apollo disguising himself' seems to only be a thing in Roman literature?)
Areia (or Deione): had a son named Miletus. Hid him in some smilax. Her father found him and named him. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 3.1.2)
Arsinoe: she and Apollo had a daughter named Eriopis. (Hesiod's Ehoiai 63 and Scholia ad Pindar's Pythian Ode 3.14)
Queen of Orkhomenos (no name is given): Mother of Trophonius (Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 9.37.5)
(my fellow ToA fans will recognize that name haha).
Hypermnestra: Either Apollo or her husband fathered her son Amphiaraus. (Hyginus's Fabulae 70)
(sidenote: @literallyjusttoa suggested that Apollo was dating both Hypermnestra and Oikles, and I, personally, like that headcannon)
Manto: Daughter of Tiresias. Apollo made her a priestess of Delphi. They had a son named Mopsus. When Apollo sent her to found an oracle elsewhere, he told her to marry the first man she saw outside of Delphi. That man turned out to be Rhacius, who brought her to Claros, where she founded the oracle of Apollo Clarios. (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca E6. 3)
Later, another man named Lampus attempted to assault her, but was killed by Apollo. She is also said to be a priestess who warned Niobe not to insult Leto, and to ask for forgiveness. Niobe did not. (Statius's Thebaid 7 and Ovid's Metamorphoses 6)
(Dante's Inferno places her in the eighth circle of hell, and let me just say- what the FUCK Dante! What did Manto ever do to you, huh??!! Don't do my girl dirty!!)
Parthenope: granddaughter of a river god. Mothered Lycomedes by Apollo (Pausanius's Descriptions of Greece 4.1)
Phthia: prophetess. called "beloved of Apollo". Mother three kings by him; Dorus, Laodocus, & Polypoetes (Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.7.6)
Procleia: Mother of Tenes, son of Apollo, who was killed by Achilles before the Trojan War. Daughter of King Laomedon, king of Troy. (Apollodorus's Epitome 3. 26)
Helenus: prince of Troy. Received from Apollo an ivory bow which he used to wound Achilles in the hand. (Photius's 'Bibliotheca excerpts')
Hippolytus of Sicyon: called "beloved of Apollo" in Plutarch's Life of Numa. I don't think this guy is the same as Hippolytus, son of Zeuxippus (son of Apollo), king of Sicyon Pausanias talks about in his Description of Greece. That would be a little weird taking the whole family tree into account - though it's never stopped other gods before. *shrug*
Psamathe: nereid, said to be the personification of the sand of the sea-shore. (Conon's Narrationes 19)
She and Apollo were lovers, but never had any kids. When another man assaulted her, she had a son and abandoned him.
(He was found by some shepherds dw - wait, he was then torn apart by dogs. Nevermind.)
Back to her, her father ordered for her to be executed and Apollo avenged her death by sending a plague onto Argos and refused to stop it until Psamathe and Phocus/Linus (her son) were properly given honors.
(I really like how even though Linus isn't Apollo's kid, and that Psamathe wanted nothing to do with the kid, Apollo still considered him worth avenging too <3 )
Okay, in a previous incarnation of this post, I said there was a version where she is raped by Apollo...however, I can't find any sources to back it up😅 Even her wiki page doesn't mention rape, and Theoi's excerpt of Paunasias's Descriptions of Greece about her doesn't either.
So where did I hear about this supposed version? (Don't shoot)
Youtube. A youtube video about Apollo. Yeah...
Lesson, kids! Don't trust youtube videos on mythology! Yes, even if they dedicated lots of time to it! They can still get things wrong! In fact, don't even take my word for it! Do your own research <3
Alright. 34 lovers here.
5 Male. 29 Female.
33 are 100% consensual. Creusa is questionable, depending on who's translating/which tradition you go with.
Lovers Who Died:
Hyacinthus*: mortal prince. we all know this one, right? Right? one and only true love turned into flower (okay that's my bias speaking but AM I WRONG?) (Plutarch's Life of Numa, 4.5; Philostratus the younger's Imagines; Pseudo-Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.3.3; Ovid's Metamorphoses 10.162–219; Bion's Poems 11; and various pieces of art)
Cyparissus: mortal. his DEER DIED and he asked Apollo to let him MOURN FOREVER so he was turned into a cypress tree (Ovid's Metamorphoses X 106ff)
Coronis: mortal princess. cheated on Apollo w/h Ischys, who in Fabulae was killed by Zeus. mother of Asclepius. killed by Artemis. (Pindar's Pythian Odes 3.5; Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 2.26.6; Hyginus's Fabulae 202; Ovid's Metamorphoses 2.536 and 2.596; Hyginus's De Astronomica 2.40; Isyllus's Hymn to Asclepius 128.37 ff.)
There is another version of Asclepius's birth given by Pausanias in Descriptions of Greece 2.26.1-7, where Coronis exposes him on a mountain and Apollo takes him in.
Adonis: yes, THAT Adonis. he's in this category because. well. he died. rip (Ptolemy Hephaestion's New History Book 5)
Phorbas: Okay so Apollo's lover Phorbas and another Phorbas sometimes get mashed together so this is what I was able to gather.
Plutarch's Life of Numa 4.5 and Hyginus's De Astronomia 2.14.5 cites Phorbas as Apollo's lover. The other Phorbas is said to be a rival to Apollo in the Homeric Hymn to Apollo. Personally, I separate the two because it makes more sense with Phorbas the lover's overall story.
Here it is: The island of Rhodes fell victim to a plague of dragons or serpents, and the oracle said to summon Phorbas for help. He defeated the infestation, and after he died, Apollo asked Zeus to place him in the stars, and so Phorbas became the constellation Serpentarius, also known more widely as Ophiuchus (a man holding a serpent).
FORGET ORION AND HIS ONE-OFF MENTION OF BEING DIANA'S LOVER HERE IS A CONSTELLATION TRAGIC LOVE STORY!!!!!
(*Hyacinthus was resurrected, as celebrated in the Hyacinthia festival in Sparta. Nonnus's Dionysiaca 19.102 and Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece 3.19.4 supports this belief as well.)
5 lovers.
4 Male. 1 Female. All consensual.
Sidenote: QUIT BURYING THE GAYS GREECE!!!!
Love-Interests Who Rejected & Died:
Daphne: do i nEED to say anything? Nymph. turned into tree to escape.
Daphne and Apollo actually go back a bit. Their story was used to explain why the laurel was so sacred to Apollo. It's in Delphi, Branchus planted laurel trees around the temple he built to Apollo, the laurel was even sacred to Apollo's historical forebearer Apulu, an Etruscan god! (I have sources to back this up :3 along with an Essay.)
Apollo & Daphne first originate from Phylarchus, but we do not have any of his work :( It's been lost to history...a moment of silence RIP. He was a contemporary in the 3rd century BC/BCE (first day of 300 BC/BCE and last day of 201 BC/BCE).
He was, however, cited as a source in Parthenius's Erotica Pathemata, written sometime in the 1 century AD/CE (sometime between 66 BC/BCE and the author's death in 14 AD/CE).
Then they show up again in Pausanias's Descriptions of Greece, written between 150 AD/CE and 170 AD/CE.
Hyginus wrote his Fabulae sometime before Ovid's because it's widely criticized to be his earliest work and Ovid wrote his Metamorphoses in 8 AD/CE.
The first two versions are roughly the same, and Ovid's shares similarities with the first in only the ending. Hyginus is basically like Ovid's but without Eros.
So in publication order, it's; Erotica Pathemata, Fabulae, Metamorphoses, then Descrip. of Greece.
In Erotica Pathemata, Daphne is the daughter of Amyclas and is being courted by Leucippus. She is not interested in any sort of romance. Leucippus disguises himself as a girl to get close to her, but his ruse is revealed when Apollo nudges Daphne and her attendants into taking a bath in the river. Leucippus is consequently killed.
Apollo then becomes interested and Daphne runs away, imploring Zeus that "she might be translated away from mortal sight", and is transformed into the laurel tree.
In Fabulae, Daphne's story is a bit more familiar. She's the daughter of Peneus, the river god, and Gaea is the one who transforms her into a laurel tree.
In Metamorphoses, Eros is added to the story and is the reason why Apollo is so enamored and Daphne is so repulsed.
(I would just like to say that in this version, it was 100% nonconsensual for both of them! And I don't mean with rape- Apollo never touches Daphne in any of these version. What I mean here is that Eros maliciously makes Apollo chase down a woman and makes sure Daphne would be repulsed by him. That is noncon behavior there on both sides.)
In Descriptions of Greece 10.7.8, Daphne is the daughter of Ladon and her and Apollo are only connected by way of why the laurel crown is the victory prize of the Pythian Games. However, in Descriptions of Greece 8.20.2-8.20.4, Daphne and Leucippus make an appearance here too, but Apollo is not the reason why they stop to take a swim and his ruse is revealed, resulting in his death.
Castalia: Nymph. turned into spring to escape.
First things first, Castalia was used to explain the existence of the Castalian Spring in Delphi. However, in the Homeric Hymn to Apollo, the spring is already there when Apollo was born. So there's that to consider first.
Anyway, to escape Apollo's advances, Castalia transforms herself into a spring. (Lactantius Placidus's On Statius's Thebaid 1.698. This was written between Lactantius's lifespan of c. 350 – c. 400 AD/CE, placing it firmly in Roman times.)
2 Interests.
2 Female.
Love-Interests Who Rejected & Cursed
Cassandra: mortal princess. Received the gift of prophecy from Apollo. Due to a broken oath, she was then cursed. (Aeschylus's Agamemnon)
It is only in Roman-era tellings where Cassandra is cursed for not sleeping with Apollo, and there was no oath made (Hyginus & Pseudo-Apollodorus). In Agamemnon, it was done so because of the broken oath- not the refusing to sleep with Apollo thing.
The version where she gains prophetic abilities by way of a snake licking her ears is not part of Greco-Roman literature, but rather by an American poet.
Nevertheless, even after the curse Cassandra still loved Apollo, and called him "god most dear to me" in Eurpides's play The Trojan Women.
1 Interests.
1 Female.
Love-Interests Who Rejected & Lived
Sinope: mortal. there are two different version of her myth.
In Diodorus Siculus's Library of History 4.72.2 and Corinna's Frag. 654, Apollo "seizes" her and they have a son named Syrus.
In Apollonius's Argonautica 2.946-951 and Valerius Flaccus's Argonautica 5.109, it is Zeus who abducts her, but she gets him to promise her anything and requests to remain a virgin. He obliges. Later, Apollo and the river Halys both try to charm her, but fall for the same trick.
Library of History was written between 60-30 BC/BCE, Apollonius's Argonautica between 300 BC/BCE and 201 BC/BCE, and Valerius Flaccus's Argonautica between 70-96 AD/CE, making Apollonius's version the oldest and Valerius Flaccus's the youngest.
Marpessa: mortal princess, granddaughter of Ares. Idas, son of Poseidon, kidnapped her and Apollo caught up to them. Zeus had Marpessa chose between them, and she chose Idas, reasoning that she would eventually grow old and Apollo would tire of her. (Homer's The Iliad, 9.557 and Apollodorus's Bibliotheca 1.7.8–9)
Bolina: mortal. Apollo approached her and she flung herself off a cliff. He turned her into a nymph to save her life. (Pausanias's Description of Greece 7.23.4)
Ocroe/Okyrrhoe: nymph and daughter of a river god. asked a boatman to take her home after Apollo approached her. Apollo ended up turning the boat to stone and the seafarer into a fish. (Athenaeus's The Deipnosophists 7.283 E [citing The Founding of Naucratis by Apollonius Rhodius]. The Deipnosophists was written in the early 3rd century AD, between 201 AD and 300 AD)
Sibyl of Cumae: mortal seer. promised to date Apollo if she was given longevity as long as the amount of sand in her hand. he did, but she refused him. (Ovid's Metamorphoses 14)
5 Interests. All female.
Okyrrhoe's story is the only one with any iffy stuff, although, when something iffy does occur, the text usually says so outright.
Rejected by Apollo:
Clytie*: Oceanid nymph. turned into a heliotrope to gaze at the sun forever after the rejection.
1 Advance. Female.
(*Clytie's story was originally about her affection for Helios. [Ovid's Metamorphoses 4.192–270; Ovid used Greek sources about the etymology of the names involved, meaning Clytie and Helios go back to Greek times] As Apollo got superimposed over Helios's myths, people have assumed it is he who is the sun god in her myth and not Helios.)
In Conclusion...
59 people total, and 33 of them have Roman-Era roots with (as far as I know!! Don't take my word as gospel truth!!) no relation to Greece except by way of shared mythology.
Here's the list:
Rhoeo
Thero
Hyrie/Thyrie
Dryope
Melia
Aethusa
Acacallis
Chrysothemis
Corycia
Choine
Thyia
Othreis
Stilbe
Syllis
Amphissa
Areia
Queen of Orkhomenos
Hypermnestra
Manto
Parthenope
Phthia
Procleia
Helenus
Hippolytus of Sicyon
Psamathe
Cyparissus
Adonis
Phorbas
Castalia
Sinope
Bolina
Ocroe/Okyrrhoe
Sibyl of Cumae
Meaning, 56%- and really, it's more like 57%, because Clytie is not Apollo's lover at all- of the lovers listed on this post are not entirely Greek in origin (AS FAR AS I KNOW-)! That does not mean ofc that you have to ignore them. I, for one, really like the story of Rhoeo, and Manto, and Psamethe- I find their myths sweet (Rhoeo & Manto) and bittersweet (Psamethe).
Let's get to the calculations now, yeah?
59 people total (Includes Clytie)
48 Women (81%). 11 Men (19%).
19% were Immortal (Including Lovers & Rejected)
68% Lived (Including Lovers & Cursed & Rejected)
14% Died (Including Lovers & Rejected)
1% were Cursed
2% were Rejected by him
58 people total (Not Including Clytie)
47 Women (81%). 11 Men (19%).
19% were Immortal
69% Lived (Lovers & Cursed & Rejected)
12% Died (Lovers & Rejected)
in that 12%, one was apotheosized - Hyacinthus.
Meaning 10% died permanently, while 2% were resurrected.
2% were Cursed
0% were Rejected by him
Additionally, I left off three male lovers and two female lovers - Atymnius, Leucates, Cinyras, Hecate, & Acantha.
Atymnius has no references to being Apollo's lover, only to Zeus's son Sarpedon. (Wikipedia why do you even have him listed? You need sources smh)
Leucates is another male "lover" left off the rack - apparently he jumped off a cliff to avoid Apollo, but I couldn't find any mythological text to account for it- and no, OSP's wiki page is not a reliable source. There is a cliff named similarly to him where Aphrodite went (by Apollo's advice) to rid herself of her longing for Adonis after his death. Also Zeus uses it to rid himself of his love for Hera before he...well, commits adultery again. 🤷
Cinyras was a priest of Aphrodite on the island of Cyprus. He was also the island's king. Pindar calls him "beloved of Apollo" in his Pythian Ode. However, looking further into Cinyras's life throws a bit of a wrench into it. He's also cited to be a challenger to Apollo's skill, and either Apollo or Mars (Ares) kills him for his hubris.
(honestly, I kinda like the idea that Mars went into Big Brother Mode)
I did consider leaving him on the list, since technically you could argue it was a romance-gone-bad, but among every other source Cinyras is mentioned in, Pindar's the only one who puts a romantic label on him and Apollo.
Plus, he’s been described as a son of Apollo too, and I personally like that more lol
Hecate, the goddess of magic and crossroads, is said to be the mother of Scylla (like, the sea-monster) by Apollo, but Scylla's parentage is one of those "no specific parents" ones, so I left her off the list.
Acantha has absolutely no classical references. There's a plant like her name, but she's made-up, so she doesn't count. *stinkeyes the guy who invented her and claimed his “sources” were reliable when they really aren’t*
(Of course, I could be wrong about any of these. Again, I'm not an expert.)
With all this in mind, this means Apollo's love life actually isn't as tragic as media portrays it, and he isn't as bad as Zeus or Poseidon in the nonconsensual area.
Does he still have those kinds of myths? Yes, with Dryope and Creusa; though, we can discount Creusa because;
1) Depends on who's translating it; and
2) Ion is given different parentage in the Bibliotheca, which yes, came much after Ion, however Xuthus was traditionally considered to be Ion's father rather than Apollo. This means there was probably a different oral tradition on Ion's parentage that just wasn't written down as early as Euripides's was- in fact, it may even just be an invention of Euripides's.
(and honestly Apollo's characterization in Ion just doesn't quite match up with the rest of his appearances in the wider myths (in my opinion, at least))
So that leaves us with just Dryope, who comes from Ovid, a Roman poet, and Antoninus Liberalis, a late Greek one.
Now I'm not saying we should throw her out because of Ovid's whole "wrote the gods even more terribly to criticize Augustus" thing, but it is something to keep in mind. Political mechanics have been used to change myths before, and this is certainly one example of it.
Additionally, I have seen many people discard Dionysus's rapes in the Dionysiaca because of how late it was written, so this one can be given similar treatment if one choses too because of just how late Ovid and Antoninus Liberalis's work was.
You can, in fact, pick and chose if you wish, especially if it'll increase your enjoyment of literature. That's certainly what I do :)
So overall, I'd say Apollo has a rather clean relationship past. He's doing pretty damn good.
Also, I think we should all take note that even if Apollo had noncon myths, that doesn't reflect on the actual god. The Ancient Greeks did not see the myths as "canon" to their gods- in fact, some were not happy with the myths showing the gods in such a light.
That's something else to keep in mind. The gods of the myths are not the gods of Greece, and are more like parables or fables for the Ancient Greeks I'd say. Lessons on morality and such, and of course, warnings against hubris and the like.
This was quite the journey, and I really hope you all enjoyed reading and learning with me! This really makes me wonder- if Apollo's love life is this good, I wonder how misinformed we are on everyone else's? I have no plans on doing Zeus or Poseidon or anyone else (not for a LONG time lol, this took a lot of effort and research!), but if anyone has any idea, or gets inspired to do something like this for any other god, please tag me!! I'd love to see it! :D
And since this was on a previous reblog, here be a meme from a while ago:
[ID: Me Explaining Me. On the left is a girl with her hands up, fingers pinched together, like she's intensely explaining something. The text over her says "Me giving a detailed diatribe about Apollo's love life and how modern media has done him and his lovers dirty". On the right is the girl's mother, wrapped up to her chin in a blanket, with a look on her face that screams "I hear this all the time". The Mother is labeled "My family". /End ID]
suffers in I'm the only mythology nerd in the family
#ramblings of an oracle#greek mythology analysis#apollo#greek myths#greek gods#greek myth#ancient greece#still gonna tag this as toa#just because#;)#the trials of apollo#toa#trials of apollo#tagamemnon#greek history#ancient greek#greek mythology#greek tumblr#ancient rome#ancient history#rome#greece#apollon#apollo deity#hyacinthus#hyacinth#apollo x hyacinthus#apollo and hyacinthus#cassandra of troy#the muses
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