#mostly pre 52

[necrotic-nephilim]

as much as I love the common "Tim worships/stalks Jason" trope in TimJay fanfiction because it's Good and making Tim a weird little freak is Fun, I think the underutilized dynamic is where Jason is the one weirdly obsessed with Tim and makes it Tim's problem.

Like, the moment Jason is confronted with the information that a third Robin exists, the first thing he does is cover his wall with pictures of Tim so he can just obsess and torture himself over it. That is the behavior of a man who is Unwell over Tim's existence and I love it.

red hood: lost days #4

And as much as a shitshow as The Titans Tower Incident™ is characterization-wise (though I think it has far more merit in depicting Jason's character than people give it credit for but I digress-) there's something very fun about the fact that even after kicking his ass, Jason respects Tim and is impressed by him.

teen titans (2003) #29

And on top of that, Jason can't seem to stop trying to ask Jason to Tim to work with him in some capacity.

robin (1993) #177

batman: battle for the cowl #2

While Battle for the Cowl is an exceptionally bad comic, especially for its characterization of Jason and the "be my Robin" bit is taken deeply out of context, I do think it's interesting how obsessed Jason is with believing that Tim is extremely competent, only held back by being "brainwashed by Bruce". (hence him leaving Tim for dead later on in the comic.) Jason seeing a darker side of Tim and wanting to bring that out of Tim, wanting to see what Tim could be if he let go of his loyalty to Bruce is so fun to me, tbh.

And in Robin #177, Jason seems genuinely upset Tim doesn't want to work with him. Jason sees such a raw potential in Tim and is obsessed with it, constantly wanting Tim to work for him and see Tim be the type of person Jason is. And despite Tim rejecting him, Jason doesn't shoot to kill Tim. I just cannot get over the fanfic potential of Jason obsessing over Tim, tracking him and seeing what he's capable of and what he could be capable of. Wanting to make Tim see things the way he does. To Tim it's corruption, to Jason it's freedom. Tim trying to 'save' Jason is fun and all, but Jason trying to corrupt Tim? That's even more fun to me. Watching that power struggle between them, Tim unable to get Jason off his heels as Jason gets more and more possessive and bold with each attempt.

And when Jason sees Tim successfully get Gotham back under control after a gang war, he's impressed. He praises Tim, even. And then Tim just. Breaks him out of prison.

robin (1993) #182

The way they're constantly trying to see something in the other that isn't there, hoping the other will come around? That is the most fucked up hate/love dynamic ever. Jason keeps coming back to Tim, keeps trying to find ways to get Tim onto his side. They're always chasing each other. And I think Jason would be the one to confess love first, the one to do anything to make Tim his. And when you consider after all of this, Tim has his Red Robin arc and is at his lowest, getting the closest he ever gets to considering murder? I think it'd be so fun to see Jason take advantage of that and worm his way back into Tim's life and finally push Tim over the edge.

[spacetrashpile]

oh kid eternity we’re really in it now

[volfoss]

i am so relieved that the aquaman vol 5 run that was like 60 issues of most over the top 90s writing from peter david ended on SUCH a strong note with dan jurgens run

[lena-oleanderson]

my version of "i wonder what else they have written - RPF hockey???" is my 22 ghostbusters (2016) fanfics i wrote within 2 of my 8 years on ao3

[cutiekaijumuseum]

A little trivia for those that just got introduced to Ultraman thanks to Ultraman Rising

You know that part where baby kaiju Emi is shown a kids cartoon with an earworm of a song?

That cartoon is real!! It's called Kaiju Step Wandabada and it stars cute kid versions of different monsters from different Ultraman series (mostly the original from 1966 wich Rising is also based on). The opening shown in the movie is in stop-motion while the cartoon itself is in 2D.

The Ultraman heroes don't appear in person, but bizarrely enough they seem to exist as fictional superheroes in-universe, with the kaiju kids having toys and dolls of them. It's no surprise Emi liked it so much! She would be right at home in this show!

The episodes are 5 minutes long, there are two seasons of 26 episodes each for a total of 52. The official Tsurubaya channel has the first episodes of both seasons uploaded...

...but the rest were sadly only up for a limited time cuz gotta sell the dvds. What is officially available online right now is a series of educational shorts.

Some years ago Marvel Comics got the rights to make Ultraman comics and made a mini-series called "The Rise of Ultraman" (no relation), and these Kaiju Step designs got to appear as part of in-universe instructional videos about dealing with monsters and aliens:

So let's have a quick rundow on the little monsters and where each comes from:

Pigmon or Pig-chan is the main protagonist and new kid in town (forest). This coral-looking guy is one of the most iconic and recurring ultra monsters and the go-to kid-friendly one, as he stood out among the original set of kaiju for being friendly and heroic (as well as human-sized). He has the bad habit of dying in many of his apperences but fortunately that's not the case here.

Kanegon or Kane-chan is the second member of the protagonist trio, and the most energic and simple-minded. A coin purse monster that eats money, and usually a human kid under a curse. He actually pre-dates Ultraman, appearing in the black-and-white anthology series Ultra Q wich had monsters but not superheroes. Fortunately this one doesn't need to eat money and was born a kaiju.

Alien Dada or Dada-chan is the reliable but temperamental inventor of the trio, he dreams of building a rocket ship. One of the most iconic villains from the original 1966 Ultraman (and that's saying a lot), it's a weird alien with weird powers looking for human subjects for his weird experiments, like testing his shrinking ray. He really earns the name of a weird art movement.

Gomora or Gomo-chan is probably the most iconic ultra kaiju of all. Remember how in Ultraman Rising there is this whole sequence where the dad omniously talks about fighting him? There is a good reason for that. Gomora had the only two-parter in the original 1966 series, and was able to actually defeat Ultraman in their first figh. He's essentially Godzilla if he lived underground rather than underwater (He's even been a good guy and had a robot counterpart). Here, however, Gomora is a chill guy who's passionate about agriculture. (btw, you can also spot Gomora in Rising on a screen around an hour and eight minutes into the movie).

Red King or just Red is another iconic ultra dino, that looks like corn. In the show he's brute but well-meaning, and has a friendly sport rivalry with Kemur-chan. But in the Ultraman series he's a sadistic and murderous bully who beats up weaker monsters but gets his butt kicked rather easily by Ultraman (although more recent incarnations have have been more positive, both in his fighting ability and sometimes even becoming a loving father). (and yes, you are right, he's not red).

Jamira or Jami-chan is a passionate archeologist and fossil collector in the show, whereas in the original Ultraman he was a human astronaut that got infected by a virus. He hasn't appeared much beyond his debut... but doesn't need to, as his episode was very memorable in how sad and tragic it was. I can't imagine the target audience's whiplash seeing this cute creature one moment collecting fossils and the next having a horrible sad death. I guess one could say the same for most of the characters, but this one takes the cake.

Miclas or Mic-chan is the youngest character, a baby, and loves bugs. He was one of the "capsule monsters" from the second ultra series, Ultra Seven. Sometimes the titular ultra wouldn't be able to fight himself so he would summon up to three very loyal monsters from little capsules to do the fighting instead (or at least buy some time, they weren't very strong). One was a triceratops, another was a robot bird, but the most iconic had to be Miclas because really, what even is he? Some kind of bull toad hybrid? (By the way, fun fact, the capsule monsters were one of the inspirations for Pokemon).

King Joe (yes, that's his name) or Joe-chan is a robot controlled by alien invaders and is to Ultra Seven what Gomora is to the original Ultraman: he's the subject of a two-parter and was able to beat the hero to a pulp at first, made harder to fight by his ability to divide into three flying parts. Fortunately this Joe is very shy and very friendly.

Eleking or Ele-chan from Ultra Seven is another of the "mascot" ultra kaiju. If two ultra kaiju have to appear in anything, chances are they will be Gomora and Eleking. In fact, in Ultraman Rising you can see Eleking in a monitor right next to Gomora (around an hour and eight minutes in). It's a dinosaur-like eel monster with (of course) electric powers, and the enforcer of an all-female bug-like alien species set to conquer the earth, that are nonetheless very affectionate towards their pet-weapon dino-eel. The fact that Eleking's masters are always women may explain why the Kaiju Step one is a very femenine and elegant girl despite having King in the name, though no less dangerously electric.

Alien Guts or Guts-chan here is a very little alien bird child who can multiply into three separate individuals to cause all the destruction in their sincere attempts to help out. The original duo from Ultra Seven meanwhile are ruthless alien invaders that are infamous for freaking crucifying the aforementioned hero, leading to decades of japanese media having christian imagery for the sake of looking cool, most notably Neon Genesis Evangelion, because these birds did it first and it looked so cool.

Alien Kemur or Kemu-chan is a very agile alien that comes from the distant future of 2020 to consume humans and extend his lifespan. Here he's a friendly but competitive ninja from the present, and has a rivalry with Red King being the speed to his strenght. Like Kanegon, he pre-dates Ultraman, being from Ultra Q.

Motokureron or Kureron-chan originates from the whimsical, fairy-tale like Ultraman Taro. A kid found him as a baby and fed him until he grew to giant size, but when the kid couldn't feed him anymore he turned destructive; fortunately he was easy to pacify with food, including the kind that made him shrink. He retains his glutonny and clumsiness in Kaiju Step, often doing the bad thing (tm) so the others can teach the kids in the audience why you shouldn't do the bad thing (tm).

Nova or No-chan originates from the surprisingly dark Ultraman Leo. This creepy and bizarre ghost-like alien created a red mist that made people go crazy, and manipulated a kid with illusions of his deceased family, and under his cloth there are lots of tentacles and a scythe. So of course, in Kaiju Step she's a happy and energic little girl that loves to sing.

Mugera or Muge-chan is by far the most obscure kaiju of the cast. She's from the 2001 series Ultraman Cosmos, the one where the titular hero protects monsters instead of fighting them. Mugera is an ET-like cryptid that lives in an amusement park that only kids can see, with the ability to fix toys and heal wounds with her magic. After the amusement park closes down she phones home and the protagonists have to protect her from the goverment wich is a little too eager to shoot down the UFO that came to pick her up. In Kaiju Step she likes reading and plants.

And that was your daily dose of kaiju sugar, that may be overdose because you probably already met Emi. Cheers!

[cluescorner]

Tim Drake fumbles so many bad bitches that the one time he DOES hold down a stable relationship a bunch of people are like 'ok but where is the catch?' It's been several years and you'll still sometimes hear people wondering how it's gonna end/if Bernard is actually evil.

TimTam could last IF Tim could kick his habit of self destruction via blowing up all of his relationships. Which doesn't happen super often but when it does it sure is not good.

[roseworth]

who are the people you think jason actually cares about?

ohhh this is such a good question bc jason shows "caring" in so many fucked up ways <3 im only going off pre-52 canon because i do not like acknowledging rhato or anything that happened after that. so unfortunately i will not be going into an extensive rant about jason and rose 😔

so firstly and most obviously. jason cares about bruce a lot. everything in under the red hood and lost days and everything after that hinges on the fact that jason genuinely cares about bruce and cares what he thinks about him. if jason didnt care about bruce, none of it would've mattered. but the fact that he cares changes everything

with bruce, its not really care in the sense that he wants him to be okay and safe, but more that he wants bruce to show that he cares about him. he doesnt really give a shit about protecting bruce, mostly because he knows that bruce can protect himself so jason doesnt need to do anything. but even when he wants bruce dead, its still more about what bruce thinks of him than actually wanting him to die. its not main canon but the arkham knight comics show this really well since jason's only goal in that universe is to kill bruce, but every time he's close to death in the comics jason steps in to save him because he won't let bruce die if it isnt jason who kills him. then a good main canon example is ofc in lost days when jason puts a bomb in the batmobile, then chooses not to detonate it because bruce would die without knowing it was jason who killed him

red hood: lost days #2

also worth mentioning that jason actually explains what hes thinking In Depth to bruce. he wants bruce to understand him so he lays out exactly what hes doing and why. jason is so open about his emotions to Only bruce because hes desperate for his father to understand him. if he didnt care about bruce he wouldnt care what bruce thinks, but he openly shows everything to bruce because he WANTS him to understand. obviously this is not open honest healthy communication because its usually communicated by screaming while theyre punching each other. but its still worth something

another obvious one to me is talia <3 shes the only other person that hes ever really open and honest with, and hes not even screaming at her! he tells her what hes thinking most of the time, and he constantly goes back to her for help when he needs it.

lost days #3

im not gonna sit here and say that jason and talia have a super healthy relationship but. its by far the healthiest relationship he has post-death! even though iirc we never see them interact again after lost days (🙂) he still cares about her a lot and shes such an important part of his life

moving on. dick

dick is one of the only people we see jason go out of his way to talk to without fighting (sort of. they do end up fighting but he still just wanted to chat). without going into whatever the hell is going on in brothers in blood (affectionate! its camp!) he just wants to find dick and talk to him. hes being an asshole about it because hes jason but he became nightwing because there was a need for A Nightwing so he filled in, then he goes "omg dick my favorite brother lets team uppppp 😁 itll be so fun 😁"

nightwing #119

then in outsiders, jason comes to dick just to give him information. they end up fighting again because they both suck but there was no secret plot or ulterior motive, he just wanted to help black lightning and tell dick what he could do

outsiders #44

once again hes an asshole so its hard to tell but he does actually like & care about dick

okay. now its time for a controversial one. in a weird way i think mia is one of the few people he cares about

LISTEN. listen. im a mia fan so this is not just me being a jason fan and making everything with her about him. and im not saying "everything he did was fine actually because he did it out of love ☺️" NO he did it because hes fucked in the head. and i love him

so heres the thing. we see him with people he doesnt care about all the time. he beats the shit out of tim for no reason and generally makes peoples lives harder for fun. but its so different with mia. in a way he sees her as an extension of himself because he recognizes how similar they are, so hes genuinely just trying to get through to her. hes fighting her because its the only way he can get her to listen and really drive his point home! again, he sees so much of himself in her so hes basically using this moment to tell her everything that he would tell his past self after everything hes gone through. hes not trying to convince her, hes trying to convince baby jaybin.

green arrow #72

i love this scene so much. there are emotions you can only unlock by being insane about jason and mia at the same time and reading this scene. he is projecting so much onto her in this moment that in a roundabout way he really cares about what happens to her. i am the only person on earth with correct opinions about the jason and mia fight btw

anyways moving on to sasha/scarlet

honestly i dont like talking about scarlet because i feel like everything in that story is out of character for him, especially the idea that he would take in a kid sidekick. but if im talking about people he cared about pre-52 i dont want to leave her out

batman and robin #4

he doesnt really show care like this a lot (which is part of the reason it feels out of character but whatever) and its so significant to see that he just. actually cares about her. he knows that shes going through something difficult so hes there for her. in a way the same feelings are there as when he talks to mia (he sees himself in her and wants to tell her everything he wishes he had known at that age) but shes a lot more receptive given that he was the first person that took her in after what happened. that is not a good thing because he took a traumatized child and got her to kill people but we've already established that hes fucked in the head <3 but he actually cares about her and wants to protect her, so its the most normal way he shows that he cares about someone

and now i NEED to talk about donna

if you notice a pattern you'll see that most of the people that he cares about are either people he knew before he died or people that he projects onto. and lucky for donna shes both!

countdown #48

he still looks up to donna like he did when he was robin, and after what she went through (im not gonna bother questioning why he knows all the details of everything that happened to her. comics) he sees so much of himself in her but she obviously went down a completely different path and he doesnt agree with her but he clearly respects her for it. and she is once again one of the only people who he goes out of his way to just! have a conversation with! without fighting her! he just wants to chat with his buddy donna :( not to mention idk who pointed it out but i once saw someone say that he specifically destroyed donna's statue in teen titans #29 because!!! he cared about her!!!! they got along when he was robin and he wanted to see her!!

and even throughout countdown jason was rarely mad at donna. he fought with kyle allllll the time and sometimes donna yelled at him because hes an asshole but he never tried to pick a fight with donna! which means that donna is the only person on this list that he has never tried to fight and/or kill <3 donna & jason #1 one-sided besties of all time

okay anyways ill stop yapping now <3 in conclusion: bruce talia dick mia sasha donna

[wesavegotham]

"Damian shouldn't be Batman because he was told it's his birthright, so he doesn't deserve it"

...I mean, let's be real nobody is ever going to replace Bruce as Batman, DC will nuke their continuity before that happens so why do people keep asking who will replace him, but also, that is not quite true?

In some stories DAMIAN thinks he's entitled to the cowl, but except for two not main continuity stories by Tom Taylor where Bruce dies (DCeased and Batman One last day: Ra's al Ghul) I really don't recall Bruce ever saying to Damian that he wants or expects him to be Batman after him. Either because he believes he will doom them all (Morrison run), expects him to be a hero who knows how to take care of the stuff Bruce will leave to him, but never says he wants him to be Batman (Batman and Robin 2011), created a cloning machine so nobody but Bruce will need to be Batman (Snyder's Batman run) or because he pretty much forgot/ignored Damian existence (pretty much everything between 2018 and 2021).

And Ra's and (modern, not classic) Talia wanting him to be Batman makes little sense either because they want an heir for the league of assassins to take over because the lazarus pits might stop working for Ra's. Batman is mostly focused on Gotham, their plans are about the world. It wasn't their goal to raise the next protector of Gotham.

In Pre New 52 and then in New 52 continuity Damian wasn't even told who his father was until he was ten.

Thinking he should become the next Batman was Damian's own idea.

[cheezeybread]

Hello! I've been reading your Jamil [L/N] Headcanons and I am in love with your stories. I would like to make a request just to make the Viper Family regret disrespecting Jamil & His Husband. 😈

Request: With some planning and the right moves, [Y/N] becomes rich - EXTREMELY RICH - and surprised his husband with the news. Somehow, Jamil's Parents hear about the news and go to the The [L/N] House Party for obvious reasons. I wanna see Jamil and his Husband shut them down: It's the [L/N] Wealth!

Sorry this oneshot is a bit all over the place, I had a coffee and now I feel SO sick and my hands won't stop shaking lolllll

mmmm not proof-read either T^T

°。°。°。°。°。°。

The good thing about not being born and raised in this world was that you could easily see the various loopholes and "cheats" in their economic system. And other things, such as their gambling games.

Since the people in Twisted Wonderland grew up with all of these things as a constant, they lacked the ability to see any flaws in their systems. However, you could see right through them. First was their currency. Thaumarks were relatively easy to reproduce if one could find a skilled enough mage- of course, you weren't going to stoop down to that level of counterfeit behavior. Second was their card games. While your own world's average card deck housed about 52 cards, Twisted Wonderland's average card deck held 14 to 25 cards (all depending on what sort of deck you were purchasing- region-wise, people added cards to the deck for aesthetic reasons). This lower amount of cards would normally mean that you'd have a better chance of winning, but their game's rules were...stranger than most.

The main game people gambled and bet over was called "Mage Hunt". In this game, a player (or however many were playing a game) would be dealt with seven cards- these cards all representing a "kingdom", with kings, queens, knights, and the like. It was the player's job to find the "mage" in the group (The mage being either a specifically-made card, or a pre-determined card from the dealer), but they could only receive four extra cards before guessing. And they couldn't look at anyone else's cards. No hints were given.

It was a confusing game, when you first started playing it with Jamil. But you quickly learned that the dealer would more often than not pick their mage from the deck out of instinct. You found that their "instinct" was to pick a mage from the card with the most symbolic imagery in it. Crows and ravens, an absurd amount of flowers, stuff like that.

It was for this reason that you began to play the game a lot more. Professionally, even. Every time Jamil left the house to go run errands or explore, you would sneak off to the local gambling area (sometimes it would be a tavern, sometimes an alleyway in town, under a bridge, anywhere was fair game for these people) and play "Mage Hunt" for money. And since you and Jamil were out traveling as part of a Honeymoon, it made it surprisingly easy to win as much money as you could, then skip town before the locals caught on to your proficiency with cards.

And when you and Jamil finally made it back home, after months of traveling, you surprised him with the news of your success! He was mostly amused that you found it necessary to sneak off and play card games while traveling, but he only shook his head and smiled as he suggested you bring out all of your earnings.

His eyes got wider when you brought bags upon bags into the living room and began counting it out.

It was well over thirty-three thousand thaumarks. All from playing card games. It wasn't a grand fortune, by any means, but it was enough to make Jamil pass out briefly. And once you went to some higher-level Casinos (the real deal!) to bet all that you had earned before, you and Jamil went back home with twenty times that amount!

Now you were a wealthy couple- wealthy enough to live heartily and uneasy for the rest of the foreseeable future, without worrying about jobs and other stupid things. Hell yeah.

How the Viper family caught wind of your newfound riches was anybody's guess. Although the blame could...most likely lay with Kalim, who was absolutely over the moon about your card game knowledge (having lost most of his monthly allowance over playing it with you). That poor boy couldn't possibly keep his mouth shut around his family, and since the Viper family worked for his family...well...

In the end, you and Jamil walked into your home after running out to grab groceries, and who else was sitting in the living room but one Mister and Missus Viper?

Jamil tensed up as soon as he saw his parents, but he tried not to let his discomfort show as he squeezed your hand lightly and let go, setting down the paper bags in one of his arms on the kitchen's counter before returning.

"Mother, father," He said casually "I believe my rules were clear, and you followed them...let's see, not at all. So therefore, you're trespassing."

You hurriedly went to stand by his side, wrapping an arm around your husband's waist.

His father wasted no time in getting to the point, ignoring his son's words "We've come to realize that you're hiding wealth from your family, Jamil. But, of course, we wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that perhaps you just haven't found the time to give us our due," he held his hands up in a submissive gesture, although his eyes were almost predatory in nature "So we came to save you the time and effort."

"What are you on about?" Jamil laughed callously "Your due?"

"Jamil, you know good and well that that kind of money can get our family out of servitude-" Jamil's mother started.

He shot her down immediately, twisted out of your loving grip and taking a loud step towards her, the floor vibrating with the force of the movement "Excuse me, I thought serving the Asim family was your pleasure? And now, after all of this fuss-and-nonsense you gave me after marrying YN and choosing to raise our future family freely, away from serving a rich family, you come crawling back to us the moment you hear about money that my husband has earned?"

"You're being a selfish-" the dad started

"NO, YOU'RE BEING SELFISH!" Jamil shouted, making you flinch "GET OUT OF OUR HOUSE- This is not the Viper wealth, it's the LN wealth!"

"I think it's best you leave," you tried to speak motioning for the parents to exit the house. Best to leave now, before Jamil got himself in trouble for murdering his mother and father...

"This is a family matter, fuck off!" Jamil's mother snapped at you, the first time you've been directly addressed by his parents since, well, the wedding, almost.

The room went quiet, devoid of talking. The only sound was Jamil's heavy breathing as he tried to keep himself from flinging himself onto his mother right then and there. He closed the distance between him and his parents, his footsteps eerily silent

"Snake charmer," He whispered, his eyes flashing a brief glint of red. Having not seen Jamil use his signature spell since college, you took a step towards him, putting a hand on his shoulder to remind him of your presence. While he didn't say anything to you nor take his focus off his parents, you could feel his shoulders loosen up.

"Listen to me now," Jamil hissed "You are going to leave our house immediately and forget where it is. You will never interfere with mine nor my husband's lives ever again- and you will not ever, ever speak to me nor him, over the phone or otherwise."

That was the last time you saw the Viper parents. They stood up immediately, as per their son's instructions, and with a glazed look in their eyes, trudged to the door and opened it, disappearing into the outside world.

[sasheneskywalker]

looking at the recent poll about dc's biggest misconceptions on @/dc-polls and generally existing in the dc (mostly bat) fandom on tumblr has really showed me that a lot of people tend to call "a misconception" or "not canon" anything they personally dislike or any character interpretation they don't like, even when it's a plausible reading. there's this total refusal to accept as canon anything that contradicts their favorite era of comics (post-crisis most of the time), builds upon it in a way they disagree with or portrays their favorite character doing something they hate. i often see these people acting with condescension and arrogance towards fans who enjoy newer eras of comics or even arguing that because they believe something is out of character, it's not truly canon or claiming that their subjective opinion is actually a canon fact. i have no problem with people saying "this didn't happen in post-crisis/pre-flashpoint era" or "this doesn't seem like something this character would do" but these statements are often extended to "and therefore it's not canon, an utter misinterpretation, and anybody who likes it or uses it in their character analysis isn't a real comics fan."

some examples of "misconceptions" from the aforementioned dc's biggest misconception tournament:

"Bernard is a great partner for Tim." -> that's a personal opinion

"Batman is a dick to poor people." -> bruce is a multifaceted character and doing good things (donating to charity, giving scholarships, building orphanages, etc.) does not preclude you from being a dick other times and holding harmful biases (calling poor people some heinous names and being prejudiced towards them) (*yes, it's often the writer's fault for making bruce their mouthpiece but it happens often enough that at this point it's a consistent part of his characterization)

"Damian has tried to kill Tim Drake multiple times." -> as another person has pointed out in the reblogs, it is perfectly reasonable for fans to interpret incidents when damian seriously hurt tim as murder attempts. there may be disagreement over this interpretation, but it's not a misconception.

"Roy Harper and Jason Todd are best friends." -> jason and roy have canonically been friends for 13 irl years, across multiple reboots and comic runs. just because you don't like it doesn't make it not canon. (it's similar to jason & tim. yes, they weren't close in the post-crisis era. however, they started being portrayed as friends in the new 52. you might hate it, but it is canon.)

"WFA is a good way to get into the world." -> that's a personal opinion

For me it just feels like calling out these "fandom misconceptions" is mostly a way to make yourself seem superior and dismiss other people's thoughts.

[zahri-melitor]

What was the purpose of the New 52? Was it really a failure?

There’s a loaded essay topic!

The purpose of the New 52, to my best understanding, was stated to be the opportunity to tell stories that were less weighed down with continuity and allow a clear starting point for new fans to hop on board and start reading comics.

Basically, COIE and Post-Crisis is a successful version of what they wanted! COIE did in fact reset the universe and make a nice clear boundary for fans, and while if you dig in, particularly to 1980s comics, it wasn’t always as clean or tidy as people think of it being, and it created some weird discontinuities requiring additional retcons (Donna’s everything being the most famous, particularly to tumblr), it created a 25 year long largely coherent story where characters grew and changed over about 5 in-universe years of narrative.

Let’s look at Wally, because he’s emblematic of it. Wally in 1986 was a young adult who just lost his father figure, was expected to step up and take on a role he had never expected to need to take, especially that young, and was a kid from a fairly conservative background who had never examined his views.

Wally by 2011 was a fully grown adult who had a wife, kids, extended family, a career, was fully respected in his role as the Flash, and had found his views becoming significantly more progressive over time as he was exposed to more of the world.

This is fantastic long form story telling. The problem is to tell long range generational storytelling is that you have to be willing to allow those legacies to occur and the character focus to shift. And that makes fans of older characters, particularly the ones giving up their legacies, mad and long for their faves to be back in their prime.

Enter the New 52.

New 52 was an attempt to cut this Gordian knot. If they created a new timeline where superheroes only had 5 years of history, then that meant that the classic Silver Age headline characters couldn’t be ‘too old’ to still be realistically running around doing what they do. They had to be in their late 20s-early 30s! Young! Hot! Spritely! Relatable to a new generation!

While some of these characters did have 70+ years of history, the thing is that nearly 50 years of it (1938-1986) had already been compressed and glossed down to basics. Nobody can actually tell you what happened the year Dick Grayson was 14 years old. You can build one from old storylines if you wanted to have it! But it's not as easy as pointing to a run of comics and saying "during this Dick was 14".

This left two significant problems in tension with each other:

The intention to make Bruce, Clark, Hal, Barry, Ollie, Arthur, Diana etc about 30ish years old and the key adult members of the DCU to revolve stories around.

Everyone from the Titans on down therefore had to get significantly younger to fit into a 5 year history, but a lot of these characters ALSO had active fans and writers wanted to use them.

And then, on top of that? Because the intention for resetting to a new universe was to remove the burden of backstory from storytelling, the editors and various offices...never sat down and worked out together what the new history contained.

This led to the wild situation where The Flash, for instance, was reset to a pre-1986 state where there wasn't even a KID FLASH, and basically every member of the Garrick-Allen-West-Chambers-Mercury Flash Family not named Barry Allen or Iris West had ceased to exist (and uh, given it's the Flashes, only ONE character with each of those names existed). While over in Batman, the writers tried to hang onto everything and they cut ten years out of the timeline mostly from discarding Dick's history, so that Bruce had 4 Robins in 5 years.

This obviously created a lot of the issues. Because there was no structure as to what was in or out in the new universe, writers just...did whatever. And contradicted each other. And when they realised the contradictions, tried to write retcons to excuse it. (Was Tim Drake Robin or not? Depends on which writer you ask!)

Was it successful?

In the short term, in terms of sales? Yes, absolutely. DC managed to get a bunch of new readers in, as was the financial intention. It also did allow for a shift in focus on some characters: it's where basically all of Damian Wayne's stories that people like as stories (and not as concepts) exists; it's where Jason Todd's modern characterisation as an antihero and dynamic with the other Bats was established; it brought back a bunch of older properties that hadn't been seriously used in years back into the spotlight; due to the fixation on having 52 titles running at all times it gave a lot of characters opportunities to headline titles that hadn't got that in a long while, and the opportunity to try out different styles of storytelling; it provided the opportunity for modern rewrites of origins for some characters that needed some retcons applied - Morrison's Superman is well regarded and both Aquaman and Green Arrow's origin rewrites for instance put things together more coherently and discarded some outdated elements. Blue Beetle's rework of Jaime's history to keep the main elements but excise the fact it was so reliant on Infinite Crisis was actually better considered than people give it credit for.

The bigger issue was the lack of planning meant that the timeline became a burden on the whole initiative, particularly given how many fans were asking for the return of beloved characters and dynamics that had been wiped away or rendered unrecognisable in the reset. On top of that, there was the conception that they could just abandon the whole timeline again at the end of 5 years and start over, so large radical changes were fine and wouldn't have ongoing effects.

Also, the initial boost of sales from being able to announce brand new titles, like every time an #1 is announced, trickled away. Yes, it was the entry point for a generation of new fans. But also it wasn't any more turnover in terms of new fans than in any other period, on the long term view. There were still more people who were comics fans of DC who were long term fans than there were new fans, buying comics 2-3 years in, and those are the sort of fans who DO want the continuity back. They've got decades of favourite stories that they were told no longer mattered, and they wanted them to matter. And they lost a whole chunk of fans who reacted to New 52 like it was a contact poison and...stopped buying DC comics.

And so, like a pyramid scheme or a shell game or a company expanding too fast, it started to fold in like a pack of cards. DC found itself frantically relaunching more and more titles in 2014 and 2015 as they tried to regain the new feeling momentum of 2011. Their timelines needed people who cared deeply about the characters to go over things and reinterpret them to make things flow, and most of the people interested in doing that were trying to reinstate pre-Flashpoint continuity elements.

And that's why eventually, in 2016, we got Rebirth.

I don't think it was an outright failure. There are salvageable elements. But I think the damage it did to the company reputation and to their ability to exploit what makes cape comics distinct and unique as a storytelling form far outweighed the benefits gained.

And the recovery process from trying to turn the situation around has been long, drawn out, and is still ongoing for some characters.

[necrotic-nephilim]

I’m here to bother you again!!!

You don’t have to if you don’t want to but maybe dark ship bingo with timjay or brudick????

hELLO i love being bothered by you this is delightful omg thank you, i would love to

Here is JayTim, I can't believe I only got one bingo for them. Ironically I genuinely don't view Jason and Tim as family, even when I'm not shipping them, I think they're tentative allies at best and you can only brother-ify them if you're doing very generously OOC fluff, a la WFA-style. They're absolutely toxic and codependent on each other's existence, Tim wouldn't exist without Jason and Jason is Undeniably Weird about Tim, but not brothers so I can't check off the familial squares. Also, I have no idea if I've been blocked by 10+ people, but it'd be funny if I am. And funnily enough, I don't think Tim or Jason are vanilla in any capacity even when they're not fucking. Especially not Tim, that boy is Certified Weird.

and ofc BruDick I nearly blacked out the whole board because they absolutely are weird and unwell. Some of these only apply to certain AUs of BruDick (like an idea I have rattling in my skull rn with Talon!Dick) but most of it applies to them all the time. I really need to write some fucked up BruDick, it's tragic I haven't yet. Right now the two fics I'm working on are a weird JayDick and a more fluffy DamiDick, but I have Plans™ for BruDick too. They are the OG and deserve their flowers for being the most toxic mess you've ever seen.

[ave-on-main]

“Pre-boot Roy's dynamic with Slade is what fanon wishes Dick's relationship with Slade would be” is a bad faith fanon myth.

I’ve seen this statement go around since Dark Crisis ended last year and wittnessed people actually believe it, so here we go: It’s not true.

First of, lets talk about what allegedly makes pre-boot Roy the person that fanon thinks Dick is to Slade:

One panel that gets taken out of context to prove the statement above is Slade talking about Roy as his “ace in the hole” in Titans (2008) which gets equated to Slade calling Dick a “trophy” in Dark Crisis (2022). In context, these two instances are not the same. Comparing them makes no sense. More on why in the Roy section of this little essay.

Another point of contention is that Rebirth Dick secretly works together with Slade to protect the Titans (2016). People claim that is a rehash of what happened when Roy worked together with Slade while Roy was the leader of the Outsiders (2003), but the premises are entirely different. In Titans Dick works with Slade to protect the other team members. In Outsiders Roy uses Slade’s intel and funding without knowing he’s speaking to Slade. He thinks Slade is Batman.

It is also worth noting that the Rebirth version has more in common with the Apprentice arc of Teen Titans Animated 2003. TT 03 came out at the same time Outsiders did. Slade was revealed to be Roy’s contact in Outsiders #21 (February 2005). The first time Slade appears as Batman is Outsiders #4 (September 2003), but it is not known to readers or characters that Batman is not Bruce. The Apprentice arc of TT 03 started in Season 1 Episode 11 (October 2003). The show didn’t copy the comics, nor assumably did the comics copy the show. It could be a weird attempt at synergy to reveal Slade in 2005 but it is unlikely because DC cared very little about synergy at the time. Worth noting though is, that Slade’s role in Outsiders is extremely limited. Once his identity is revealed, he is no longer part of the plot.

Now, in fanon, the Rebirth version of events is largely ignored. If anyone in fandom wants to talk about Dick working with Slade, they’ll mostly use the more thought out version of the show as a blueprint or the Renegade arc of Nightwing (1996). Both comic and show are also actually written by writers who like Dick unlike Deathstroke 2016.

That Roy is important to Rose’s developement isn’t true. She babysits Lian but she barely talks to Roy or any of the adult Titans while she appears in Titans (1999).  Nightwing: Renegade retcons that Dick was there while she babysitted Lian, but all Roy does is villify Rose, not once implying that he had anything to do with getting her on the Titans.

Equally as untrue is that Slade is actually obsessed with Roy over Dick. It’s a purely fanon take.

There’s also this conspiracy going around that Slade & Dick stans working at DC are retconning things to make Dick look better, which is, I can’t say it differently, an insane statement to make. Dan Didio erased the Slade-Dick rivalry from existance, so much so that Higgins could not use them in the same story even though he was writing both New 52 books. Seeley & King could merely put Deathstroke into Grayson (2014) as a papershield target practice. Christopher Priest dislikes Dick, which he not only states on his blog but is also obvious in his writing (Deathstroke #4). Interestingly, the people screaming about retcons ruining everything had nothing to say about Rebirth Roy being part of the NTT roaster while Grant attacks the team (Lazarus Contract).

Infinite Frontier ties Dick and Slade together once more, but it is almost all talk and no show. It’s a distant echo of their pre-boot relationship. There was zero build up to their reconnection. Frankly, a Dick & Slade stan would put a lot more effort into it. The only reason DC brought a semblance of their rivalry back was because of Red X nostalgia and it shows. Dick only dons the Deathstroke mask in Future State: Teen Titans to complement Red X and his hunt for Deathstroke in Teen Titans Academy is mention but never shown, not even as a one panel flashback.

Meanwhile Green Arrow is now the first hero Deathstroke fought (Deathstroke Inc. Year One) and Slade encounters Roy soon after (Infinite Frontier: Secret Files #2). DC is still trying to tie Slade to the JL rather than to the Titans.

But what are their actual Pre-Boot relationships?

Vastly different, that’s for sure. 

At first, Dick is largely tied to Slade because of Joey and the similarities (skill-wise) Slade sees in Dick. Later Dick’s ties to Slade’s children and what that causes makes respect turn into hate. 

Slade gets involved with Roy because of Cheshire and to manipulate the Outsiders by orders of Dr. Sivana. 

Roy Harper and Slade Wilson

Roy in Deathstroke (1991)

The first time Slade and Roy properly meet (aka actually share a word) is in Deathstroke The Terminator (1991) #18. They are both undercover and pretend to work with Cheshire.

Jade introduces Roy to Slade, and Jade “asks” for Slade’s help by using what amounts to a slave ring she can reactivate any time to control him. Together with her other underlings they set out to steal nuclear warheads.

Not knowing they could be on the same side, Roy betrays the team by going after Slade. Slade defeats him, and Roy is left in enemy territory.

Roy makes his way back after Cheshire has already nuked Qurac. The destruction makes Slade and Roy temporarly work together to apprehend Jade and reveal their allegiances to each other (#20).

While Roy is on the Titans when Rose joins the team in the following crossover event, she doesn’t interact one-on-one with him. All he does is give Impulse relationship advice because Bart is crushing on Rose (The New Titans #126).

Titans (1999)

Roy and Slade meet when Tartarus attacks H.I.V.E. which at that point is lead by an incognito Adeline Kane but don’t have a one-on-one interaction in thie story.

Their first true confrontation takes place later. Slade’s been contracted to kill Cheshire due to her nuking Qurac. As Slade and Roy fight, Slade mentions Nightwing as a comparison between the two, and even though Roy temporarly gains the upperhand, Slade escapes to go after Jade. (#22)

Rose starts to babysit Lian after the Deathstroke & Qurac incident, but weirdly enough, she barely shares a word with any of the adult Titans. She’s really just kind of there.

Outsiders (2003)

Roy believes Batman is giving him intel and is funding the Outsiders  (#6, #11) . In truth, the Batman who he’s been talking to is Slade.

It's when Dick learns that Roy hasn't been talking to the real Bruce, that Slade reveals himself. Slade fights Roy, taunting him about killing him and adopting Lian to make her an assassin. Slade realizes Roy isn't on top of his game and sees the five direct bullet wounds he's received on an earlier Outsiders mission. Taking pity, Slade decides to leave him alive (#21).

In #43 the Outsiders learn that Slade was hired by Dr. Sivana. The mad scientist saw potential in manipulating the team. It was not Slade’s idea to go after the Outsiders.

Titans (2008)

When Slade creates his own Titans team, Cheshire convinces Arsenal to join the team with her. She wants to use the opportunity to kill Slade. Roy pretends to have switched allegiances and joins the team.

Slade knows not to trust them. He uses Roy’s drug addiction against him by switching out Roy’s “regular” drugs with a substance called “Bliss”. (#27)

Later Slade uses Roy as his “ace in the hole” when the Justice League confronts them. He threatens to blow up his ship with a warhead. The League, lead by Dick as Batman, retreats as not to harm Roy. In this case, “always his ace” means the reason Roy is on the team is to be used as a human meat shield because other heroes still care for him (Annual #1).

At the end of this arc, Roy betrays the team and decides against resurrecting Lian and with that stops Slade from resurrecting Grant. Slade swears revenge on him because Roy literally did what the New Teen Titans did. “Killing Grant.” The Titans comic and the entire Pre-New 52 universe end with Roy and Joey deciding to reform the Titans because Dick still believed in the teams value.

Apart from the initial Qurac storyline, there’s no canon Slade and Roy story in which Dick doesn’t at least get mentioned.

Pre-New 52 Dick Grayson and Slade Wilson

New (Teen) Titans

Dick belongs to the six New Teen Titans that Slade originally takes on a contract against (New Teen Titans (1980) #02). Slade contacts the team soon after their first meeting to take them out. Dick plays the voice of reason during that second encounter and makes the Titans listen to Slade’s plan. Slade fails to kill them (#10).

During the Judas Contract, Slade learns Robin’s secret identity through Tara’s spying on the Titans (Tales of the Teen Titans #42). Slade attacks Dick in his office, telling him he won’t kill him if Dick doesn’t resist because H.I.V.E. wants the Titans dead or alive. Dick knows he can’t win a hand-to-hand fight against Slade and manages to trick him. Slade admires how Dick escapes, ascertaining that Dick is the leader for a reason. He’s the hardest to catch because powers don’t make a man. Just like Dick, Slade was the best even before he got augmented. It’s a first for Slade to loose his target. He blames it on being worried about the contract.

While Adeline and Joey get in contact with Dick, Slade delivers the Titans sans-Dick to H.I.V.E. (#43). Adeline proceeds to tell Dick how Slade became Deathstroke the Terminator. Afterward Joey and Dick team up to save the Titans (#44).

After Tara loses herself in her rage and dies, Dick concludes Slade and she were manipulating each other (Annual #3).

Dick remains in contact with the D.A. office to ensure the Titans are still going to testify against Slade but a Deathstroke imposter attacks Lilith. Slade’s attorney spins a defense out of the imposter (#53). Gar has his own plans for Slade while Dick and the Titans want to focus on aprehending the imposter. Dick gets sworn in as an expert witness on matters of identity, and he tries to use what Adeline told him about Slade in court, but Slade’s attorney uses Dick’s words against the Titans. Slade doesn’t go on further trial but will remain detained in prison and has a small confrontation with Dick. (#54)

Wildbeests are hunting the Titans and Slade gets hired by Dayton to save Gar and the others. He would have gone after them regardless to save Joey. He ends up searching out Dick’s apartment first, probably in hopes he hasn’t been captured yet (#71). Slade doesn’t realize that Dick is one of the Wildbeests he encounters, and the one who helpes Slade escape from the second Wildbeest.

The Wildbeests realize they have a spy and overpower Dick. Slade catches Pantha just as she finds pieces of Dick’s costume (#74). Slade invades the Wildbeest base, and Joey reveals himself to Dick and him (#75). The two end up fighting Joey, but can’t get through to him. Dick implores Slade to calm down and focus as they escape to Titans Tower. There, Slade stops Pantha when she attacks Dick shortly before the Wildbeests attack the base. Slade and Dick escape together. While Slade can’t believe Joey is doing this, Dick is the more realistic of the two. 

Later, Slade gets them out of a tough situation by morally questionably methods. Slade expects a response from Dick but gets a proverbial shrug (#76).

Shortly before their final confrontation with Joey, Slade decides he has no other choice than to kill Joey, which Dick is against. Slade kills his son because he knows the real Joey regarded the Titans as friends (#84).

Slade and Dick meet on the Titans Tower island afterward. Dick notices him, which according to Slade not many are able to do. Dick asks why he couldn’t be bothered to show up at the funeral of the son he killed. 

Dick attacks Slade in his grief over Joey, telling him to fight back. Slade does if only to tell him he lost someone too. Their fight ends when Dick admits he doesn’t get how Slade and Bruce can just keep bottling their anger up, he’d explode. Slade tells him that losing control hasn’t done him anything good and that he has to believe he freed Joey. He then shows concern for having injured Dick, but Dick denies his help, and they part ways without anything truly resolved (#86).

Dick in Deathstroke, The Terminator (1991)

Bruce calls Dick to get intel on Slade. While Dick knows how dangerous Slade is, he calls him a good man, to which Slade later responds by saying Dick’s wide-eyed and idealistic. (#7)

When Deathstroke gets into crosshairs with the Justice League and has lost much of his powers, the Titans set out to confront him. He encounters Dick and Koriand’r while he tries to escape. Dick tries to stop him and explains to him that if he’s an innocent man, he’ll stand by his side and help him get free of the charges (#14). In fact, the Titans saw what was happening to him on TV and Dick made the decision to help him or take him down depending on whether Joey dying pushed him over the edge (New Titans #89).

Dick and Slade end up working together when Eclipso tries to take over Earth’s heroes. Slade heads to Salvagion to get information about his current situation where he meets Nightwing, who’s been caught spying. Salvagion isn’t the enemy, though, Nightwing is there to retrieve information about Cyborg’s files to heal his friend. The files were lost when Titans Tower got destroyed. 

Dick and Slade fight against enemy mercenaries, who are attacking Salvagion,  and figure something is wrong. Dick then hires Slade and Pat to save the Titans.

By 1993 Dick’s appearances in Deathstroke and The New Titans apruptly ends because he had been taken back by the Bat Office. Editorial was quite strict at the time, demanding him to be written out of New Titans.

Slade in Nightwing (1996)

As Dick tries to apprehend an out of control Man-Bat, Slade shows up to do just that with tranquil darts, shooting Dick too in the process (#17). Dick learns that Slade has been contracted to capture Man-Bat alive and knows Slade doesn’t work cheap, so he and Barbara figure out who Slade has been hired by.

Dick ends up fighting Slade on a boat, treading barbs throughout, and ultimately taking Slade out long enough to escape with Man-Bat (#18).

While Dick’s working at the BPD, Dick one day comes home to find Slade in his apartment (#79). Slade reveals that he’s searched him out because he has a contract in town. Dick and Joey were such good friends, Slade feels it’s fair to tell him. Dick asks for the name of Slade’s target, but Slade hasn’t come to betray all of his cards, he’s simply trying to make a deal, so Dick stays out of his way. Dick considers calling for backup, but there’s no one he wants to put in Slade’s path.

During his police work, Dick sees Slade again and goes after him. They have a short confrontation in which Slade reiterates for him to stay out of the way, but Blüdhaven is Dick’s city, he’ll protect everyone in it. Slade threatens Dick and shoots when Gannon Malloy, Dick’s partner at the BPD, draws a gun at him. Dick saves him but gets shot in the arm (#80).

The Batfamily visits him at the hospital, and Dick asks Cass for help with Deathstroke. She fights Deathstroke and retrieves a disc from him that reveals who the target is (#81).

Dick succeeds to save Amy from Slade’s first attack, fighting Slade until he takes advantage of his injury. Dick tells Amy to run, stating Slade won’t hurt him. Even though Slade implies that he will, Slade doesn’t further fight Dick, going after his target instead. Dick ignores his own safety to attack Slade in close proximity again. It allows Amy to get far enough away for Slade to temporarly stop his hunt and punch Dick unconscious.

Dick remains by Amy’s side as much as he can, stopping Slade from shooting her by dropping bills on him and fighting him long enough to tell him that Dick s overbidding the contract put on Amy.

Slade responds by saying that he always knew that Dick had a heart (#82).

When Blockbuster dies some time later, new villains want to take his spot and as Dick learns Deathstroke will be the hired help, he considers how he can stop them while Slade knows his secret idenity (#110). Dick hunts down Westbrook to get into contact with Slade. By the time Dick returns home, Slade has received his message (which leads to the famous shower panel) and Slade witnesses how Dick has gotten involved with the Blüdhaven mob (#111). Dick tries to convince Slade that he is one of the bad guys now, but Slade claims he doesn’t have an interest in seeing Dick be a “selfloathing mercenary” now that he has to take care of Rose.

Dick wishes Rose good luck after both Grant’s and Joey’s deaths, and Slade ultimately decides through Rose’s input to let Dick train her. Rose tells Dick she was a nanny to Lian (paradoxially because he knows. He was there in Titans (1999)). They save Sophia Tevis and Rose tells her father, asking him if Dick gets to have a private life from them, which Slade replies to with “obviously not” (#112). 

While Rose and Dick investigate another crime, Slade seeks out Amy Rohrbach, telling her he won’t hurt her because she is permanently off his hitlist. He can still kill her family, though. He is searching for Sophia Tevis behind Dick’s back and confronts Dick with her existence and proof that Dick in fact remains a hero (#113). Rose’s training continues, and while Slade does not trust in Dick’s loyalty, he lets him investigate the villains Slade is currently working with (#114). Slade decides to monitor Dick as he sends out Rose and Dick to hunt Superman. Dick has been given a glove through which Slade can monitor and change his heartbeat as well as hear what is going on. Dick uses the fight to show Rose that the ideology of her father is wrong. 

When Dick is later confronted by Slade, who is threatening to kill him, Dick reveals that Slade cannot kill him for two reasons: 1. Slade killing Dick would cause Rose to betray him and 2. that Slade has always failed to kill him and that it never fails to make him mad. Slade lets Dick go, but knows Dick is messing with something too big for him (#115). 

After Slade betrays Dick, Dick plants geiger counters in Slade’s house and makes sure Rose learns that her father has been poisioning her with the Kryptonite in her eye. Slade and Dick are fighting during the conversation. Slade tries to stay in control of the situation, but Rose ultimately believes Dick, especially when Slade tries to silence him even though Rose wishes to hear what Dick has to tell. Dick makes sure Slade knows he’ll get back at him someday for what he did to Blüdhaven (#117).

Titans (1999)

This Titans story takes place before their fallout. Deathstroke is fataly wounded by Tartarus and goes to the Titans for help. Dick reluctantly offers him a temporary place on the team, but not without putting a tracker on him (#10) and reminding Slade continuously that if he fights with the Titans, he must follow their rules (#12).

Deathstroke brings Dick up while fighting Roy, claiming Arsenal is no Nightwing (#22) and Rose later becomes the carekater of Lian but hardly talks with the Titans on panel.

Teen Titans (2003)

When Slade defeats the Teen Titans by manipulating several young heroes, the original Titans aren’t happy about it. Dick tells Slade to leave (#45). When he doesn’t, Dick and he fight while the other Titans take on his crew. During the confrontation, Slade taunts Dick, but Dick still stops Cass from trying to kill him.

When Slade tells the Titans they’ll never be able to trust Rose and Joey, Dick replies that they have proven themselves and will always have a place on the team. Slade gets away, revealing it was all a test to see if his children will have a good life with the Titans (#46).

Infinite Crisis (2005)

After everything that has happened with Grant, Joey and finally Rose, Slade blames Dick for his misfortune (#7). (The page this panel is from was apparently accidentally erased in the digital version of this issue. It can only be found in the digital collected edition and the print editions.)

Batman & Robin (2009)

Talia hires Deathstroke to kill Dick by letting him take control of Damian’s body. She states that Slade has a “long and eventful history” with the “foolish young Batman pretender”. Slade has waited a long time to get rid of Dick per his own words (#11). Slade wants Dick to know who is going to cripple him, so Talia intensifies the neural bond for Slade to be able to speak through Damian. They are working together because they have both lost their children to the hero community because of Dick.

Damian is resisting the control, which makes Slade unable to do much more than to reiterate his desire to kill Dick. Dick electroshocks Damian, knowing Damian can handle it, but Slade likely can’t because of his enhanced senses making him more vulnerable while connected through the neural link. Slade goes into shock, and Dick later searches him out after infiltrating Talia’s base to give him payback. 

Titans (2008)

Deathstroke makes a deal with Mad Hatter, which causes his group of Titans to cause havoc in Arkham Asylum. Dick, then Batman, stops him from taking an inmate with him (#28). Slade calculates whether fighting Dick is worth it and decides to do so. Dick is still furious at Slade for what he did to Damian.

Dick is forced to let Slade get away to save two Arkham guards but pursues him, getting confronted by the new Titans team Deathstroke is leading (#29). Dick and Roy shortly work together. Dick tries to convince him that he is not a villain, but Slade tells Dick Roy is now on his side.

Slade and his Titans are able to leave while Dick deals with the freed inmates off-panel (#30). Ray Palmer point out to Dick that he is taking the confrontation badly, initially only blaming it on the appearance of Slade, who Dick has fought “more times than any [hero]” (#34). Slade reveals to Roy that he chose him for the team to ensure the League could not act in fear of putting him in mortal  danger. Dick gives the order for the JLA to fall back but both Slade and Roy know they’ll still be pursued.

As usual, Dick and Slade share a snarky exchange before the serious fight begins. Dick leaves Slade to Ray while he engages with Roy. The hero Isis stops the fight because they are in her land. Dick makes it known that they should have killed Slade long ago but retreats with the League, giving Roy hope in the process to stand against Slade’s goal (Titans Annual #1).

Conclusion

Fans who enjoy the Dick-Slade dynamic whether at DC or in fandom aren’t erasing Roy to slot in Dick. Slade obsessing over Dick isn’t a new concept. He grew obsessed because their paths crossed many times over the years, and Dick has ties to all three of his children. Slade never felt obsession toward Roy.

If you want your fanon Slade to be obsessed with fanon Roy, and you want to transform canon moments, go ahead, nobody is stopping you, but don’t pretend it’s canon simply to erase Dick.

And before you all come with the Gar argument: Simply because the Gar-Slade and Dick-Slade dynamics came up around the same time does not mean they are the same. Gar and Roy are mostly tied to Slade through one person (Tara and Cheshire). Dick was initially tied to Slade through Grant (as were the other NTT) and then Joey, but their dynamic transcended that to something much more personal and the groundwork was laid by Wolfman himself when he made Slade point out how much Dick's capabilities remind him of his younger self.

The Slade-Dick dynamic is unique because it was allowed to transform and build-upon with each appearance (except for Dixon's). Enemies turning to frenemies then bitter enemies is not a story usually experienced like this in comics. It happens, but it happens as a backstory or under the same writer, not in real time.

[riggedbones]

making a dashboard simulator post from my octopus world that is so inscrutable .

2 notes

🐕 themodernwisdom

stop fucking telling me it’s problematic to have “humans dni” on my carrd none of you understand how traumatizing a symbiosis breakup can be.

👨‍💻 typical-hue-man follow

traumatizing for who 🤨 lmao you weren’t even the one dependent on them for survival

🐕 themodernwisdom

do you not know what dni means.

#blocked. #youd think after all these millennia they’d evolve some reading comprehension

52 notes

⚡️ psychiclesbian

like i don’t esp like how often were asked about our sex life but like yea i mean they’re right. tentacles 👍👍

#minors dni #like if they rly want to know just find an octopus whos dtf not that hard #i mean. okay maybe a bit hard. but idk they’re online sometimes?

3 notes

🎛 oldstructuremusings

just got the most insane piece of fanmail what the fuck. why is this child learning local human language from my radio show. in the middle of the fucking ocean. apparently they can’t pick anything else up that isn’t the occasional raven station but like i feel like i have some sort of responsibility to not teach this kid how to say fuck every five seconds.

#text #its probably too late tbh #if the kid is seeing this. get off of tumblr

12 notes

🦋 lonesomedreamer 🔁 why-no-pigeon-emoji follow

🐦 why-no-pigeon-emoji follow

does anyone know how human symbiosis works i saved this guys life right after his cat friend died and i think he is getting attached. or something.

🚧 mazemaster follow

ur not a dog or cat ur fine.

🦋 lonesomedreamer

it’s a common misconception, but humans can actually form symbiotic bonds with any sapient creature, actually! the relationship mostly helps with their social and mental requirements, and if there are enough humans in an area to form a community, they’re actually not at all reliant on forming interspecies symbiotic relationships! doesn’t really happen where i’m from though, i think last i heard there are maybe 6 humans in the area max 😅

🐦 why-no-pigeon-emoji follow

everyone stfu he made us matching outfits im gonna cry

#omg this is so cute 🥺 #i'm glad things worked out

5,923 notes

🌿 grasstoucher 🔁 toogenericusername follow

🐚 molluskfan12 follow

currently keeping some smaller snails atm after you-know-what >_> their shells are a more fragile but the meat is better imo. hope it'll work out still!!

🪶 aviandinosaurs follow

cottagecore bloggers off the shits lmao what is this

🐚 molluskfan12 follow

what the fuck is a cottagecore

10,239 notes

⚡️ psychiclesbian 🔁 undereclipse follow

🗼 prehistoric-structures follow

i'm curious!!!

🌅 sundownscare follow

op i appreciate the button for humans in theory but are you under the impression that we don't show up in our own creation myths???

🕸️ veryseriousmonkey follow

maybe they just want to know about other species, like humans appearing in their own myths is p much a given lol

🗼 prehistoric-structures follow

oh yeah thats... totally why that's there

#they forgor 💀

42,143 notes

🌿 grasstoucher

do you think they had discourse like this pre climate disaster like it was just humans at that point how bad could it rly be

[gorogues]

1. What’s the most accurate/canon depiction of The Rogues relationship with each other for both pre-New 52 and post-New 52 comics? (eg what Mark is to Lisa and vice versa, what Digger is to Sam and vice versa, Len and Mick, etc until you’re done listing how everyone’s relationship with everyone else is like)

You can add others (Owen, Axel, Evan, etc) if you want, but this question is mostly aimed at the main Rogues.

2. I swear I saw a post from someone on this platform, I don’t know if it was you or somebody else, but they basically said something along the lines of: “You’d think that it would be out of character for Barry to leave his villains in Iron Heights, knowing how unethical the prison is and all. But the more I thought about it, the more I agreed that no, it isn’t actually that out of character for Barry.”

That thought has been stuck in my head ever since, and as someone who doesn’t really know Barry’s characterisation all that much (a crying shame, I know), I just wanted your opinion.

Is this statement true? I’d like to hear your reasoning for if you agree or disagree.

I didn’t know if I should keep these two questions on separate asks or not, so I just combined them both onto one. Hope you don’t mind all that much. I know it will probably take awhile to answer my questions, if you decide you want to that is. If you do then no pressure, take as much time as you want. If you decide you won’t answer, that’s also completely fine with me. Either way, hope your happy and safe wherever you are and have a good day/night.

Buckle up, because this is a long ride. To start, I'm leaving out stuff like when a Rogue was mind-controlled into doing something, or when they weren't in control of their actions due to being puppeted by Neron or Nekron (although the Black Lanterns were speaking from their victims' memories and thus may have had relevant things to say. It wasn't that person committing evil acts, however). That stuff wasn't voluntary, though of course the people harmed by them during those periods might not see it that way.

--Pre-Flashpoint--

Lisa and Len: Their relationship has varied depending on the era. In the Bronze Age they were often indifferent and sometimes hostile to each other (she didn't seem upset about Len's purported death), but occasionally got along well. After Crisis they frequently worked together and were generally friendly, but tensions built and things turned bad -- originally, Lisa was intended to have murdered her brother for his cold gun, but that was nixed in favour of her just stealing it. By the Johns era she was dead and Len was overtly mourning her, and we'd see in retconned flashbacks that they were very close due to their shared traumatic upbringing. One flashback showed her saying she'd become a criminal to be like her big brother, although Bronze Age comics were quite clear that she did it to avenge her dead boyfriend.

Lisa and Mark: They didn't interact much (just a few issues), but she poisoned him in one story to get him to do her bidding. It doesn't seem like they were close.

Lisa and Digger: Again, they didn't interact much, but she poisoned him in one story to get him to do her bidding. After she died, the tabloids claimed that she and Digger had a secret love-child -- which wasn't true -- but maybe they had more interactions that we never saw. Or maybe the tabloids just assumed Lisa was the mother because she was the only female Rogue in those days.

Lisa and Sam: They never interacted with each other back in the day, but in a later retcon Lisa wanted to be introduced to him because he was "cute".

Lisa and Roscoe: They were dating, and were very close. Eventually death separated them several times and they didn't get back together for unknown reasons.

Lisa and Mick: She and Len once tried to kill Mick in the Bronze Age, but he doesn't seem to have held a grudge; the three of them got along fine after Crisis, and they worked and socialized together. In the Johns era we saw an early flashback of Mick being exceptionally rude to Len about Lisa, so maybe their early relations weren't always great.

Lisa and Hartley: They only appeared in a few stories together, and in one (Blue Devil #30) they didn't interact much but seemed friendly. In DC Retro-Active: The Flash: 1980s they got along quite well, and seemed to get along when the heroes were rescuing Wally from the Turtle Man. Overall they were civil and friendly with each other.

Lisa and James: They co-existed well enough at Len's party, but she later poisoned him to get him to do her bidding. And the relationship between James and the Rogues (including her) was rather sour in Blue Devil. They seemed terse with each other at best.

Len and Mark: Len's been kind and supportive to Mark over the years, especially since taking over the team's dad role, but interestingly he didn't list Mark amongst the Rogues he liked. (There was also a panel in which Len listed Mark amongst three Rogues who were his "real family", but that was right after saying he was glad Lisa was dead -- it was from Johns' first arc and he quickly retconned his own work). Mark seems to like him, and trusted him enough to confess to Clyde's killing. The two had a good relationship of mutual support in Rogues' Revenge, which was probably the best they've ever had and the closest they've been.

Len and Digger: In Len's spotlight issue, he claimed Digger was one of the few Rogues he liked. They did get along well, including working together outside of the Rogues/Central City, though Len didn't treat Digger very kindly near the end of his life. Len was also cool-to-hostile to him after he returned from the dead and wanted to rejoin the Rogues, and actually beat the shit out of him (admittedly Digger had just done something stupid). That said, Len wistfully said "what are friends for, eh, Digger?" when Digger was dead and told Owen that Digger "was one of…my friends", so it seems Len always did retain a soft spot for him even despite his growling. He was probably taking a tough-love approach, even if he was a jerk about it.

Len and Sam: They got along fine before Sam was killed, and even liked each other enough to work together outside of the Rogues/Central City. They didn't seem close or anything, but Sam was one of the few Rogues Len said he liked in his spotlight issue.

Len and Roscoe: They seemed to get along okay or were mostly indifferent to each other before Roscoe died, but after his death Len made it very clear he didn't miss him (although interestingly, Len seemed sad at his funeral). This may be because Roscoe had recently tried to kill the other Rogues if they messed with his plan after he'd died (which they did), but the fact that Roscoe dated Len's sister surely didn't help. By the Johns era the two of them hated each other, and Len opted not to treat Roscoe like he did most Rogues -- leaving him to languish in prison and not helping him when he clearly needed it. Things eventually devolved to Roscoe threatening to mind-control the other Rogues to make them fall in line, and Len killed him. Afterwards, we learned that at some point in earlier history Len had turned the other Rogues against Roscoe to become the group's leader, but unfortunately we don't know the details of what happened.

Len and Mick: A very complicated relationship, which goes from friendly to openly hostile and back again…sometimes within the same issue. Mick said he got along with all the Rogues but Len, which is basically true, and Len was a major reason Mick spent long periods estranged from the Rogues. In the Bronze Age, Len (and Lisa) tried to kill Mick, and previously Len had tried to traumatize Mick by manipulating him into killing an innocent person. Len's been openly insulting to Mick at times, who'd then retaliate in kind, but Len has also been supportive and helpful with Mick's many psychological issues. Sometimes Len watched out for his well-being in ways nobody else did. The end result is a complicated and not very healthy frenemy relationship between them, though they generally work well together with their complementary tech.

Len and Hartley: They seemed to get along okay until Hartley reformed (though there was a flashback to Len being callous to him in the early days), but Len's been low-key hostile to him ever since. There must be an underlying reason for it, because Len didn't really treat other reformed Rogues that way (even if he wasn't always thrilled with them) and I think he just doesn't like Hartley.

Len and James: In Len's spotlight issue, he said James was one of the few Rogues he liked. Which is interesting because I've never seen a particular bond between the two of them, but Len did accept James back quite readily after a long period of reform (which even involved fighting against the Rogues as part of the FBI). James doesn't seem to have much fondness for Len though, and has cheerfully tricked and pranked him a few times.

Mark and Sam: They seem to have gotten along okay, though they didn't interact much.

Mark and Digger: They were generally quite friendly to each other, though Mark didn't have the nicest things to say about Digger after he'd died. The Rogues can be like that with each other, however, so it might not really mean anything.

Mark and Mick: They didn't interact much but got along well when they were on the same side. However, the two of them have frequently been on opposing sides (or at least one was reformed and one wasn't), so there may have been ongoing tension between them from the time of Mick's first stint with reform. But things were fine between them when Mick rejoined the Rogues after that, so it seems like there was no lingering grudge.

Mark and Roscoe: They didn't interact much but seemed to get along okay. In Blackest Night, Roscoe's zombie (which wasn't actually him, but had his memories) spoke flatteringly to Mark and reminded him that at some unspecified point they'd once planned to take out Len and run the Rogues together, which was a bombshell never addressed again. They probably would have turned on each other if the plan ever came to fruition, but there was either mutual respect or some intended backstabbing going on there.

Mark and Hartley: They seemed to get along reasonably well back in the day, though many Rogues were frosty to Hartley after he reformed and Mark was probably no different. Hartley didn't seem as though he had fond feelings for Mark after reforming, as he was pretty apathetic when he saw Mark distressed in Iron Heights and potentially exposed to a lethal virus, and Hartley was as cold to the Rogues when he 'returned' undercover as they were to him. It's not clear whether Hartley knew Mark was part of the Rogues who'd killed his parents and framed him for it, or if he'd even blame Mark for that since Mark wasn't directly involved in the scheme. But it's fair to say that they didn't get along well from at least the Johns era until Flashpoint.

Mark and James: They got along well before Crisis, and socialized in a friendly manner up into the Waid era. But things had probably changed by the time James joined the FBI, in which he was working to take down the Rogues (including Mark). James rejoined the Rogues in the aftermath of Rogue War and interacted civilly with them, though he was openly contemptuous of their behaviour in Countdown and we later learned that he was there undercover. I think it's likely James didn't have particularly warm feelings for Mark or most of the others, and perhaps there was just too much bad blood before James was killed and the universe soon rebooted.

Roscoe and Mick: They didn't interact much but seemed to get along okay; they looked cheery when chatting during a flashback in Mick's spotlight issue. However, Mick's narration stated that he got along with Roscoe even though Roscoe talked over everyone's heads, so it seems probable that Mick tolerated him more than liked him.

Roscoe and Digger: They got along well before Crisis, but haven't been shown interacting since. Both have done personality 180s since Crisis, and I can't imagine either of their newer personalities would like or even tolerate the other, so they probably wouldn't get along and likely avoided each other. Roscoe did attend Digger's funeral, though.

Roscoe and James: In the Silver/Bronze Ages they never actually interacted with each other on panel, though they must have met behind the scenes because James was at Roscoe's funeral and complained about his sense of humour. (We've also seen a flashback of them together from a comic published later.) And James spoke dismissively of him after his death, calling him the least of the Rogues. It's difficult to say what their relationship was, though James clearly wasn't impressed by him, and probably wasn't thrilled with Roscoe when his mind-whammy was undone…and Roscoe died soon after, so they never spoke again before the universe was rebooted. It doesn't seem to have been a good relationship, but we've seen so little of their interactions.

Roscoe and Hartley: They seemed to get along okay before Roscoe died, but things took an ugly turn after he'd returned and Hartley had reformed. Roscoe tried to goad Hartley into killing a presidential candidate and then tried to frame him for it, and did so by being a homophobic asshole to him and Hartley understandably thought he was a monster. My opinion, based on what Roscoe said in the issue, is that he was trying to seriously rile up Hartley to accomplish his plan and might not have actually believed the stuff he said…but it doesn't change that he said and did it, and was in fact acting like a monster. What's interesting is that later (in the Johns era) Hartley was lamenting having no living family left, and Roscoe told him "You still have family. Me for one." Which was probably cold comfort and Hartley wouldn't agree, but it's still very interesting that Roscoe would say that.

Roscoe and Sam: Roscoe was generally quite friendly to Sam, but Sam tricked him into losing a million dollar bet and left him to die in a booby-trapped prison, so Roscoe resentfully helped Barry ruin Sam's plan. Roscoe secretly swore to get payback, but never seems to have acted on it and Sam screwed him over again by later stealing his loot. For whatever reason, Sam was the Rogue that Roscoe chose to inform of his death, though he also had a scheme to blow up the Rogues if they messed with his revenge plan (which they did). They had a weird relationship, but I think Roscoe liked Sam more than the other Rogues.

Sam and Digger: They were generally great pals, despite some hiccups here and there -- Digger was a dick to Sam in Gotham and then tried to hypnotize him into doing his dirty work. Sam was pissed enough that he tried to get a cop to shoot Digger dead. But otherwise they got along quite well and worked/socialized together even outside the Rogues and Central City, and after Sam died his costume and tech ended up in Digger's hands and he used them to commit incognito crimes. The other Rogues were furious (not knowing who was doing it), but Digger thought Sam would appreciate the joke, and he was probably right.

Sam and James: They mostly got along okay, although Sam robbed James of his loot once, and all the Rogues of the late Bronze Age tended to snarl at each other for some reason.

Sam and Hartley: Their relationship didn't seem particularly notable until Hartley was hospitalized for a nervous breakdown, and then Sam and Digger went in disguise to free him. Both were somewhat dismissive of Hartley, claiming he wasn't a great pal or anything, but the Rogues sometimes do that to downplay their feelings (perhaps to seem like tough guys?) and they went to a fair bit of effort to spring someone they didn't really care about. They obviously cared.

Sam and Mick: They seemed to get along well before Mick had a traumatic experience and left the Rogues. We don't know what Sam thought about Mick's reform.

Digger and James: They generally got along in a friendly jocular manner before Crisis, though one time Digger disapproved of James trying to unmask an apparently-deceased Flash and kicked him for it…they ended up squabbling and yelling at each other. After Crisis, Digger turned his back and suggested that the Rogues should let James fall to his death. Later, after Digger had been away from the Rogues a long time and James had reformed, Digger repeatedly begged him for money and James completely cut him off, calling him a "mooch". So perhaps relations soured after their time apart.

Digger and Hartley: As noted above, Digger and Sam went to some trouble to free Hartley from lock-up. That aside, they didn't have a good relationship; Digger criticized Hartley's battle tactics and Hartley thought poorly of Digger's intelligence even before Crisis, and we know that Digger made a lot of shitty comments/jokes about Hartley's sexuality. And Digger was openly hostile when he saw Hartley at Linda Park's funeral. Post-Crisis' Digger's personality is obnoxious enough that he'd definitely get on Hartley's nerves (and vice versa, to be honest), so it's no surprise they don't get along.

Digger and Mick: They seemed to get along well, though as noted above Mick could get along with almost everyone. Digger may not have appreciated Mick's stints of reform, but he still accepted the situation when Mick sometimes returned to hang out with the guys, so maybe it didn't even bother him. And Mick was willing to lend him money (likely knowing he wouldn't get it back) after James cut him off, with a bit of gentle chiding about getting his shit together. They appear to have had a good relationship.

James and Hartley: Best friends, at least when they're being written properly; we'll leave Countdown out of this because we all know how OOC it was. James was friendly with Hartley when they were both Rogues (it's not known whether he knew Hartley's sexuality then, but he might have), and he accepted Hartley once Hart had reformed and become a pariah to the Rogues and was openly gay. Later Hartley was accused of murdering his parents and James refused to help him when he was on the lam, but it's very possible that was due to the general mind control James was under, so it's debatable whether that was really his fault. Ditto for James basically press-ganging Hartley and Mick into the FBI. Either way, all those shenanigans aside, they're very good friends who like, accept, and trust each other. James also left his will and data for taking down the Rogues to Hartley, and told him that the information was hidden from everyone else by invisible ink.

James and Mick: They've never seemed particularly close, but later in life developed the commonality of reform or semi-reform and both are quite easy to get along with. As stated above, James drafted Mick and Hartley into the FBI and that may not have been their choice, but James was supportive of Mick's mental health and ensured he received plenty of psychological support…which was definitely necessary. He also encouraged Mick to train and remain physically healthy, so overall he was very considerate of his needs and well-being. They weren't close after the two of them went back to the Rogues, but that may have been because Mick sincerely wanted to return and James was (apparently) undercover. Overall they had a friendly and supportive relationship, despite some occasional bumps.

Hartley and Mick: Their relationship before Crisis wasn't particularly notable one way or another, but in the Johns era they were firm friends and allies during a time when most of the Rogues neither liked nor accepted Hartley. Hartley was a fugitive at the time, and Mick was the only person willing to help him with no questions asked. They later worked well together at the FBI, but weren't close when Mick rejoined the Rogues.

--Post-Flashpoint--

Digger and all other Rogues: Only Digger and Len have had significant interactions, and that story inexplicably depicted them as not knowing each other. However, a later issue showed Len offering Digger a place with the Rogues via text message.

Roscoe and all other Rogues: He's only interacted with them in passing, although Len tried to kill him again so it seems their relationship hasn't improved :>

James and all the other Rogues: He's only interacted with them in passing (aside from Axel), and he mind-controlled them into doing his bidding so there's probably no love between them and him. A past version of him also worked on the Legion of Zoom with the Snarts, but they were cool towards each other.

Lisa and Len: For a while she blamed and hated him for giving the Rogues metahuman powers, which left her seriously injured/ill and her boyfriend trapped in the Mirrorverse, but those problems are over now and the two are fairly close despite occasional differences. She opposed his regime during "Year of the Villain", but still cared about his safety and his conscience, and she broke him out of custody after his defeat. For his part, Len made a lot of mistakes during the New 52 and was selfish at times, but he went to great lengths to keep her safe and healthy during her illness.

Lisa and Sam: They almost got married and were very close through many struggles, but eventually broke up and she's been cool towards him since. He reacted by becoming a sullen hedonist, and their breakup is probably a big part of why he's not been with the Rogues for a while.

Lisa and Marco: He admired and respected her and wanted her to be team leader before seemingly falling back towards Len's leadership. They treat each other with mutual respect, though he put her life at risk in Rogues Rebellion when he'd had enough of the ongoing shenanigans. He later returned to do the right thing and help her and the others.

Lisa and Mick: He's frequently been surly towards her as he is with everyone else, but clearly cares about her and treats her with about as much respect as he has for anyone.

Lisa and Hartley: The first time they interacted on panel, Lisa got revenge on him for being a "traitor", but later that was forgotten and he went to a fair bit of trouble to keep her safe from danger. His narration stated that she'd supported him and helped him come out to the other Rogues before the New 52 began, indicating that they'd been good friends, so I don't know if they ever reconciled the 'traitor' thing or he simply let it go.

Len and Sam: They had/have something of an uneasy relationship because Sam was dating Len's sister, and Len was responsible for tearing them apart and nearly getting her killed…and after getting through all that, Lisa and Sam broke up and left Len somewhat in the middle. But Len has much better relations with Sam than he had with Roscoe before Flashpoint, and they mostly treat each other with friendliness and respect. But there's obviously anger and tension at times too.

Len and Mick: An extremely hostile relationship throughout most of the New 52, though Mick calmed down somewhat in Rebirth. All the meta Rogues were angry at Len, but Mick took it to another level of resentment and bitter violence. That's mostly behind them now, but Mick's still somewhat surly and it's probably a legacy of what happened to him. Len, on the other hand, didn't really take much responsibility for what he did to the other Rogues who weren't Lisa, and it's not surprising his relationship with Mick wasn't good. However, when the Sage Force was sorting out Mick's trauma it (or his mind) conjured up 'Len' to talk sense to him and calm him down, and by "Year of the Villain" Mick proclaimed that Len was his best friend, so obviously the situation significantly improved over time.

Len and Marco: They formerly had a terse relationship due to resentment about metahuman powers, though they seem to be on good terms now that it's behind them. Marco can be moody though, so that's probably a challenge at times.

Len and Hartley: They haven't interacted much, though Hartley saved Len from dying in an accident and Len seemed happy to see him -- but he also wanted Hartley to let him go, so maybe he was just buttering him up. Hartley was working as a hero at the time, so he wouldn't budge even for old times' sake.

Marco and Sam: Their relations have ranged from friendly to antagonistic during times of stress, but overall they treat each other with respect and have a brotherly relationship. They seem like actual friends.

Marco and Mick: Mick's intense anger issues and Marco's brooding moodiness was kind of a match made in hell and probably why they've never been close. They seem to get along okay now that Mick has mellowed a lot.

Marco and Hartley: They haven't interacted much.

Mick and Hartley: They haven't interacted much.

Mick and Sam: Mick was surly to everyone for most of the New 52, though his relationship with Sam in Rogues Rebellion was surprisingly positive and friendly. Sam tried to talk sense and the brotherhood of Rogues to Mick, who mostly dismissed him but still sacrificed himself to save the others, showing that Sam had gotten through to him. Mick later turned up alive, and was afterwards restored psychologically and physically by the Sage Force, which calmed him down significantly. But Sam turned into a jerk after he broke up with Lisa, and Mick yelled at him for it and finally got through to him somewhat, indicating that both of them listen to the other and are the better for it. Their relationship has never been warm and fuzzy, but it seems like there's enough respect to get the other guy to be better, and for both to accept advice.

Sam and Hartley: They were friendly during their interactions, which makes sense because Hartley was helping to save Lisa.

Question 2: I swear I saw a post from someone on this platform, I don’t know if it was you or somebody else, but they basically said something along the lines of: “You’d think that it would be out of character for Barry to leave his villains in Iron Heights, knowing how unethical the prison is and all. But the more I thought about it, the more I agreed that no, it isn’t actually that out of character for Barry.” That thought has been stuck in my head ever since, and as someone who doesn’t really know Barry’s characterisation all that much (a crying shame, I know), I just wanted your opinion. Is this statement true? I’d like to hear your reasoning for if you agree or disagree.

This is a bit of a tricky question, because Iron Heights was introduced and got most of its panel time when Barry was dead, so he wasn't around for the 'heyday' of its development when Ashley Zolomon and Wally West grappled with what was going on inside. We don't know what his position would have been before Flashpoint, though I don't think he would have liked it. Classic Barry was very much a law and order type (a cop, obviously), but that was in the days when prison brutality generally wasn't addressed in comics. We do know he was horrified by what was done to Clive Yorkin, which was an experimental and arguably cruel treatment of a prisoner.

But there's no question that Iron Heights has been around since Barry came back, that there's been abuse shown on-panel since then, and he hasn't really done anything about it. He was shocked by what happened to Axel in solitary and seemed like he was going to rescue him, but that just kind of petered out and it was Kristen Kramer and David Singh who did the work to stop Wolfe. I do think that's out of character….to a point. There's no question he's a cop and someone who follows the rules more often than, say, Wally. But that can also work both ways, and overt cruelty and harsh punishment isn't following the rule of law either. I think Barry wouldn't lose sleep if Wolfe took away prisoners' material comforts and privileges, even if we think that's wrong, but IMO he should find a beaten prisoner or a prisoner with his prosthetic arm removed unacceptable and take action. He's a person who has shown mercy towards reformed and even completely unrepentant villains before, and he's not perfect, but nobody is.

TL;DR I don't agree with how Barry's Iron Heights plot was handled.

[bluerose5]

Pre-Veilguard Claudia/Emmrich Interactions

Note: This is a rough outline of some headcanons I have in mind for these two, regardless of what happens in my Veilguard playthroughs with Claudia (she/they). I just love exploring a Mourn Watch Rook x Emmrich dynamic so much and wanted to expand on it for a Rook that is older than what the game seems to imply. Claudia is also of Rivaini, Antivan, and Nevarran descent but was raised in Rivain, to clarify on that beforehand. For the part about their meetings, these are the major ones noted that happens over the span of years but I'm pretty sure there were plenty more sprinkled in, in between. :)

Timeline

8:99 Blessed: Emmrich Volkarin is born.

9:10 Dragon: Claudia Ardeen Rivero Vordalenski is born.

9:15 Dragon: Claudia's magic manifests. They begin their training in the Rivaini Circle of Dairsmuid.

9:26 Dragon: Showing exceptional skill, Claudia is allowed to undergo their Harrowing at a young age. (Headcanon/Note: Rivaini Harrowings are different compared to elsewhere. For those who are deemed candidates to become seers, they must survive being possessed by a spirit rather than avoid it entirely.) However, Claudia's rite of passage goes awry when the spirit that possesses them starts to turn into a demon. Since they are able to escape from its clutches (mostly) intact, they pass their Harrowing.

9:27 Dragon: Claudia requests an official transfer to study in the Necropolis. With the help of their father, a former guard of the Grand Necropolis, authorization is granted.

9:30 Dragon: Claudia first meets Emmrich when they are running late for their class, featuring him as a guest speaker.

9:37 Dragon: The Chantry explosion in Kirkwall occurs.

9:40 Dragon: The Circle of Dairsmuid in Rivain is annulled. Claudia's mother survives. Claudia returns home to speak with their father, but they ultimately avoid their mother and spends the majority of the mage-templar war tending to their duties in the Necropolis. (Their family situation is complicated, to say the least.)

9:41 Dragon: The events of Dragon Age: Inquisition begin. Rebel mages are freed, allies to the Inquisition.

9:52 Dragon: The events of Dragon Age: The Veilguard begin.

Meetings

First meeting: After a late night of experiments and study, Claudia (20 at the time) oversleeps again, arriving late to their class when Emmrich (31) is a guest speaker. He gives a lecture on reanimating corpses, and of course the topic of whether or not the departed's soul is involved comes up. A peer goads Claudia into answering, and Emmrich is both intrigued and impressed when they use their knowledge of spirits and their Rivaini perspective to address the matter. He manages to tell them as much after the lecture before another student pulls his attention away from them.

Second meeting: Not too long after their first meeting, they pass each other in one of the Necropolis' libraries, and Claudia is surprised that Emmrich even remembers them. While they talk, Claudia keeps hiding a book behind their back, and they eventually reveal it to be a copy of some of Emmrich's research on corpse whispering. He's flattered, of course, and offers to give Claudia a demonstration in person. After all, wouldn't that help develop a deeper understanding in addition to his research? Claudia has a prior engagement to deal with, a haunting that they volunteered to help with perhaps, but agrees to take him up on the offer some other time.

Third meeting: Emmrich is passing through the halls of the Necropolis when he happens across Claudia teaching a class full of apprentices. Claudia lectures about Rivaini —and, surprisingly, even some Antivan— customs and beliefs in relation to death, mourning, etc. The Necropolis teaches diversity in such subjects, but they definitely prefer to have people from other nations to pass on firsthand knowledge if they can. Emmrich stops and listens, and Claudia falters a bit when they notice him before they continue on. They meet up for a chat after class where Emmrich compliments them on keeping their students engaged, and they mention that his lecture they first attended actually motivated them to agree to teach the class. He's delighted to hear that, but they're soon alerted to an urgent matter between undead that requires their assistance.

Fourth meeting: While Claudia is running experiments in their lab, they start to get distracted when several wisps start to circle playfully around them. The wisps demand their attention. They demand that they take a break, and Claudia finds themself humming along to the tune they create —or is it the wisps who hum along to Claudia's tune? Regardless, they can't help it as they start to do a little dance as they make their way around the lab, the wisps delighted by this development! They dance around Claudia, encouraging their movements to grow a little bolder until they catch sight of Emmrich in the doorway. Claudia nearly jumps out of their skin, unable to meet his eye while he beams at them. He brought Claudia some coffee and asked if they would accompany him for lunch, because when was the last time they ate? Claudia eventually accepts the offer, but not even a second later, an apprentice comes barging in to tell Emmrich that Johanna requests his presence immediately. Claudia promises to go eat something at his insistence before he departs.

Fifth meeting: While Claudia is performing an autopsy, they pause for a split second as they're making an incision to keep from jolting when Emmrich's voice surprises them out of nowhere, complimenting them on their technique. Realizing his error, he quickly apologizes, but Claudia assures him that it's fine. They spare him a glance, smile, and then tell him that his presence is a welcome one. They claim that their hand feels a bit steadier with him around, but that's nonsense, he insists! They already deal with such delicate, precise methods of wielding magic without him there —referencing their latest research published about the magical applications of lightning/electricity in the process of animating the dead— that surely any effect his presence has is negligible. Both flattered and shocked that he read their research, they ask what he thought about it, and they launch into a long discussion together, Emmrich making it a point to mention how… skilled Claudia is. To which, Claudia returns the compliment, their attention focused on the corpse all the while.