#most panels are from Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011)

[evasive-anon]

jason todd inspo for dpxdc

So I know not everyone is gonna read through comics so here is some dope Jason panels that I think absolutely SCREAM danny phantom xover material.

After coming back from the dead, Talia dropped Jason off with the All-Caste which is like a sect of warrior monks who do magic.

The All-Caste have a nexus chamber that can go ANYWHERE and ANYWHEN and looks absolutely insane and is filled with door ways. It absolutely screams GZ/Infinite Realms material. Jason has been in it multiple times both when learning magic bullshit as a teen and again as Red Hood when trying to track down The Untitled after they killed off all the All-Caste.

Below is a pic of Jason just after he left the All-Caste after getting kicked out and I do think his hair looks like Danny's here so I'm dropping it in for all those ppl who like writing fics where Jason is Danny's universal variant.

I have not found any panels where Jason actually has glowing green eyes but he does glow with occult symbols when meditating.

If you don't know about the All-Blades then just know are fire swords Jason can summon and use to destroy evil. Also they come with a mystic disembodied voice talking about balance and shit sometimes. They're powered by your soul so you can do some real weeb shit with that.

Bonus, sometimes Crime Alley or Gotham are referred to as Jason's Haunt and I think that's beautiful.

[disniq]

Hi so uhhhh, not actually making any sort of relevant point about anything but I saw you guesstimating Jason's kill count and I have to justify the fact that I went panel by panel to hand count his kills SOMEHOW so like have the data please!!

Skipping dear Filipe's moldering corpse due to uncertainty, we start with Lost Days

Human Trafficking Truck Driver Ian, Egon, Steel Beam mercenary crew estimated at least five strong, three more of his teachers, eleven nameless russian mobsters, a cousin and a running buddy of a russian mobster: 23 people

Under the Red Hood

Eight heads in a duffel bag, four thugs with Freeze (Freezy boy does not die), Two confirmed on panel delivery man kills (Five-ten more suspected but we won't count em), Ten goons in the doorway when he swings the minigun on them as he and Onyx retreat, five more goons, Rocket launcher blast kills "most" of a security team with at least three members left alive so we'll call that three kills (far more deaths are implied), shoots a guy holding a lit molotov catching him on fire, then kills Captain Nazi (yay), forces Black Mask to kill six of his men, forces Some Guy to fight Black Mask to the death for him, and finally dear old Black Mask's PA is thrown through a window (his cycling class will miss him dearly): 42 people

(So, yeah, your ballpark of about a hundred give or take sounds about right, he's only got ~65 on panel, confirmed notches on his knife by the end of UtRH, and the implications seem to imply between 20 and 75 kills off screen)

That Time He Kidnapped Mia

Short and sweet, he only ices a pack of "brain donors": 5 people

Brothers in Blood

Two human traffickers, three more drug runner goons, two more goons later on: 7 people

Red Haired Foolishness Phase part one

Starting the running with two cops, lightning bug assassin, six mobstery big wigs, a guy, Flamingo: 11 people

Red Haired Foolishness Phase part two

Littleman Beaver's brother and his brother's fourteen goons, fifteen of his fellow inmates, then the grand poisoning of eighty-two people (well he poisoned more but we only get eighty-two confirmed as dead): 112 people

This is not even slightly a complete list, so consider this final number a lowball of:

Two Hundred people even!

as Jason's body count... at least pre-new52, don't ask me what's going on over there in modern canon, idk

Hope this was entertaining/useful to you in some way!

Best wishes -redhoodinternaldialectical

This is an amazing reference, thank you so much for sharing!!

I can fill most of the later stuff, because there's tragically little of it.

Nu52's attempt at giving Jason a concrete kill count was laughably low;

Red Hood and the Outlaws (2011) #21

Rebirth was mostly non-lethal, with the notable exception of the gang Jason uses to establish his new edgy loner lifestyle after the famous rhato 25 beatdown from Bruce.

RHATOs (2016) #26

I count 11 of them, and I think it's safe to say they're all dead.

But then he teams up with Batwoman, and then Bunker, and then becomes a teacher at Lex Luthor's school for potential supervillains so it sort of tapers off again.

And then... there's the piece of shit dad he killed in Cheer in 2021.

Batman: Urban Legends (2021) #1

As far as I'm aware, that's the last time he killed in main continuity.

When will my son return from the war

[pluckyredhead]

Red Hood and the Outlaws #6 (2011)

Hey, remember when I was recapping this series? Well, unfortunately for all of us, I'm gonna do it some more.

I will admit this is a pretty good cover.

This shit, however, makes me so mad. What an absolutely lazy waste of space. This comic is 20 pages long, not including the cover. That means that this two page spread is literally an entire tenth of the story, and it's used to convey...what? That Jason just fought some guys who were trying to smuggle nukes into Miami.

A two-page spread is meant to deliver impact: a crucial moment in the story, a stunning piece of art, an impressive sense of scale (Galactus looming over the Earth, whatever). This does none of that. Most of the page is just a teal gradient; Rocafort didn't even bother to draw an impressive underwater scene. (I kind of don't blame him, because it would have been a waste of his time, since this scene is NOT NARRATIVELY IMPORTANT.)

Also, the page before this is also a splash, and the one after is three panels depicting Jason caught in an explosion, and that's a generous description considering that one of the panels has nothing in it but bubbles. So now we're up to TWENTY percent of the comic, a full FIFTH of the story, and we have conveyed LITERALLY NOTHING except "Jason got caught up in an underwater explosion."

This is lazy writing and lazy art. This is charging the reader for 20 pages of story and delivering maybe seven, content-wise. It's shamelessly ripping off the audience, and they aren't even trying to pretend they aren't doing it. I don't know if Lobdell didn't have enough story in him or if he was trying to give Rocafort more time to drawn stupid little lines all over everything, New 52-style, but it pisses me off.

Anyway, Jason wakes up on an island a few days later (and a narration box on the first page established that this takes place before RHATO #1):

This page has six panels which is a very respectable amount, although I still don't think it's a great use of space. But I guess Rocafort was really busy adding wood texture to all the panel borders for no reason. Anyway the little pile of leaves Kori has graciously dropped over Jason's dick is very funny.

Jason wakes up, tries to demand his pants from Kori at gunpoint, and passes out again. He has a flashback to the world's most hideous Nightwing costume:

Awful. Also, Jason flounces off in a bratty little fit in the next couple panels, but I support him, because if you actually read what Dick's saying, it's meaningless filler.

See, now this is an appropriate use of a two-page spread for impact and scale. Much more effective. Imagine how effective it would have been if every other spread for five issues hadn't tried and failed at this!

Kori offers Jason some clothing, which turns out to be the hideous Nightwing suit, and Jason flashes back to Under the Red Hood: Shitty Version:

Who needs "Because he took me away from you" when we have whatever the fuck this is?

Jason gets all upset. Kori sniffs Dick's costume and says she can't remember his name, but she has fond memories of the guy who used to wear it. There's a flashback of her and Dick and Roy in action together. Okay, so she clearly remembers Dick and Roy at least somewhat, which is probably Lobdell starting to walk back the controversial amnesia bullshit in the first issue.

Jason tells Kori his connection to Dick and asks if she's mad, which...even setting aside Kori's memory issues and general lack of grudge holding in any continuity, why would she be mad that Jason has the same mentor as a guy she remembers fondly? Anyway, she is indeed not mad and they hug it out. If this is supposed to be depicting Jason's smug "I've been with her" in the first issue, it...really doesn't read like they boned.

Jason's narration on the last page further obscures things:

"Friendship and romance are really the same thing. Anyway LET'S TALK ABOUT ROY HARPER." Okay I know that's me reading with ship goggles but it truly is a very funny transition.

So that's how Jason met Kori! She...pulled him out of the water, and they discussed how they both knew Dick. Definitely worth spending a whole issue on that very interesting story!

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

PROPAGANDA

STARFIRE (DC COMICS) (CW: Sex Trafficking)

1.) She is frequently put down in the og 80s comics due to being more expressive and open with her emotions, and ever since the og she has frequently been painted as just eyecandy (ignoring her sexual trauma) when her character is so incredibly complex. Special mention goes to red hood and the outlaws (2011) (written by a sexual harasser) for just terrible stand out awful reasons which will be seen in the below photos and her 2015 solo for combining her vapid portrayal there with her cartoon quirkiness to culminate in a trash comic that is just her basically being the born sexy yesterday trope.

2.) 2011 reboot, in RHATO she was turned into a walking fetish by retconning most parts of her character and erasing all personality displayed in the past 30 years of comics. in that iteration she is only interested in sex and is dehumanised and ‘exotic’. she ‘forgot’ all her past relationships because she doesn’t care about them only sex. her only purpose in that book is as a powerhouse and a sex/love interest for one of the male characters who view her as a trophy because she used to date someone he dislikes (in this continuity) let’s also not forget that she was first created just to be a love interest and although she did grow into a hood character at some point, she is treated horribly time and time again by writers because of conflicting ships. she’s written as a ‘vixen’ as opposed to another ‘good girl’ female character who is shipped with the same guy in canon

3.) Her original characterization was fairly decent, however it still had her stuck in relationships with men that weren't very good for her and had overtones of racism with how she was written. Post that her characterization was slowly chipped away at, some writers with harder sledgehammers than others, culminating in current writing where she's dismissed as "just a fling" to her original counterpart (Dick Grayson) to prop up a different ship (Dick Grayson/Barbara Gordon) and frequently has been used as eye candy in other comics. Simply open the first comic of Red Hood and the Outlaws, which obliterated her personality to make her associate/be subservient to the Red Hood, and you'll find plenty of panels of her appearing simply for eye candy in the boobs and butt pose for absolutely no reason. This is not the only time she's been used to cater to the male gaze (I'd argue even in her original context that was part of her appeal) but in this comic she essentially has no personality beyond "i want sex" as her memory of all past events has been erased. She's essentially just a tool for her male counterparts in the comic to bounce off of, and eye candy to bring more male readers in. She does eventually get more storylines later on, but that doesn't excuse the bad writing she was put through. Her own solo series also cashes in on her sex appeal, by infantilizing at the same time as drawing her in skimpy outfits + more boobs and butt poses galore to go for the "born sexy yesterday" misogynistic trope.

NYA SMITHA (LEGO NINJAGO)

1.) it would take way too long to talk abt all of it but like… in the series colors are very important for characters and everyone has their own color but from episode one for the next 8 seasons her colors were specifically tied to her brother.. and then when she finally got her own ninja outfit she wasnt given her own color the colors were specifically red for her brother and blue for her boyfriend. shes constantly diminished to just the men who are closest to her. also every time she meets someone they Must become a love interest (including the man who was significantly older than her and trained her to use her powers. and also she was kidnapped and forced to marry a thousand year old djinn (when she was like SIXTEEN) because she looked a little bit like his dead wife. weird as hell.)

2.) she was given NOWHERE NEAR as much development as the guys (except for the bullshit love triangle!!!) despite being at the time leagues more competent than her brother in their debut, was damsel’d so he had to Save The Girl. again, the Bullshit Love Triangle. even after she got her own “thing” she was just boiled down to “oh look it’s the girlboss!! she’s just as good as the guys!!” while still getting sidelined. as time went on and flanderization increased she pretty much just became The Team Girl, and she was ALREADY The Team Girl!!! they left her behind with the fuckin grandpa!!!

3.) Left behind to take care of the kid simply because “she’s the girl” for the first season and a half, is fairly blatantly excluded from the team, is believed to be unable to protect herself or others by antagonists throughout the series, and repeatedly dehumanized and referred to exclusively as “girl.” When the ninja are public figures in season 6 she is shown dealing with misogyny from the press in several ways, and in her focus season (Seabound) she speaks out against how she’s been treated as an object rather than a person. All around a girlboss who deserves better

[assemb1e]

assemb1e: indie comic multi muse featuring characters from dc and marvel. crossover and oc friendly. paneled by molly (25). you can also find me over at @svpe. temp rules and muse list under the cut:

muse list:

artemis of bana-mighdall / prime earth / pre n52 and red hood and the outlaws (2016) influences

emma frost / earth 616 / generation x (1994-2001), new x-men (2001), marauders (2019-2022) & wolverine and the x-men (tv show) influences

jessica cruz / prime earth / n52 and rebirth influences @greenlanthern

jennifer walters / earth 616 / slott and rowell influences

jim gordon / prime earth / batman: year one and batman: turning points influences

kyle rayner / prime earth / green lantern (1990 - 2004) influences

miles morales / earth 1048 / insomniac influences

peter parker / earth 6160 / ultimate spider man (2024) influences

stephanie brown / prime earth / batgirl (2009-2011) influences

yara flor / prime earth / wonder girl (2021-2022) influences

if you're interested in writing with any of them, please read the rules below 😌

rules:

hi,i'm molly, 25, she/her, gmt, and this is my comic multi muse. i'm very familiar with dc comics and pretty competent when it comes to marvel comics. i have also watched most live action superhero films, but will be keeping all of my muses comic based. however, i am happy to interact with live action based muses.

i am always up for plotting and starting threads, so don't be afraid to just slip into my IM's if there is a plot that you would like to try between our muses. my writing style is extremely flexible and will adapt to that of the writing partner. replies can get lengthy, especially when it comes to plotted things, but matching length is never mandatory. as long as there is something that i can reply to, i'm good.

this is not a 'shipping first blog', and most romantic ships should be natural and discussed beforehand. if nsfw appears, it will be tagged #nsft. i will obviously not write this with anyone under the age of 18 or with muses under the age of 18. if you try, you will be blocked.

if we already have a thread and you would like to start another, let's do it! there is no limit to the amount of threads i have with one partner at the same time. please note that sometimes i'm super fast when it comes to replying, and other times i an take up to a week or more. it all depends on muse and time i have to come online during a week.

my default for format is small text, normal spacing, and icons. want bigger text? want to go iconless? done. i don't mind how you format as long as it's legible. also, never be afraid to turn an ask meme into a thread!

i don't do follow for follow, so if i hit that follow button, it means that i want our characters to interact! if you follow me and i don't follow back within a week of myself being active on tumblr, it probably means that i won't follow back, sorry. ocs, multi-muse blogs and characters from other fandoms are always welcome. the only blogs i won't ever consider following are personal blogs. if you don't follow me back within a week, i will unfollow as i assume you don't want to interact (and that's perfectly okay!) when it comes to unfollowing, i may do that if you post more ooc than ic. i will definitely unfollow if you fill the dash with negativity and drama. i prefer to keep my dash a friendly and safe space. this is, after all, a hobby that we're supposed to enjoy.

[stxleslyds]

Yes but only in the recent Infinite Frontier era that DC is going through, before? Not so much. Stephanie wasn't around when Jason was first introduced and in his *actual* comeback to the land of the living in Under the Red Hood they also didn't interact. Jason's comic appearances after UtRH and 2009 were scarce and as far as I remember (I am a bit rusty on Jason lore) they didn't interact over there. From 2009 to 2011 it gets difficult because he was usually involved in all of these "Bat-Family" and universe-hopping things but it still doesn't ring a bell that they shared panels. After 2011 there was some "panel sharing" between the two, if it meant that you could put them in a room with Dick and throw a lil hate towards him. This era was full of the most boring and never-ending "Bat-Family" arcs so I would say that they did exchange some words over there. From that era I remember specifically Batman and Robin Eternal #4 in which Jason and Stephanie argue. Rebirth had some insufferable "Bat-Family" arcs that sometimes included Stephanie but I wouldn't quite say that they crossed paths in them either. Most if not all of their interactions come from the last DC Comics era and most of them were written by Matthew Rosenberg who sadly took on one of DC's classic tactics of "don't show, just randomly tell" and one day decided that Jason and Stephanie were besties (I don't quite remember but I think it was Task Force Z #9) and now in this weird Joker book.

OH, Stephanie never appeared in a Jason-solo book (Red Hood and the Outlaws) in either New 52 or Rebirth so there is also that.

have jason todd and stephanie brown ever actually had a one on one conversation in the comics

[bitimdrake]

so what color is the lazarus pit? I mean, i know that its generally accepted to be green, but in UtRH it looks yellow? it was yellow in tower of babel too, i think.

There are many Lazarus Pits of many colors! There's plenty of variation in the red/orange/yellow/green range.

So green isn’t a totally invalid color, but it's just blatantly false to claim all Pits are always green. Indeed, most are orange/gold.

Considering that many different Lazarus Pits have appeared in canon, multiple colors aren’t a contradiction. And I'm not sure how often we've seen the same pit colored multiple ways, but I wouldn't even consider that to be a contradiction since...it's magic goo. It can change colors if it wants.

The first ever appearance of a Lazarus Pit (located in Switzerland) is in Batman #243, from 1972. It’s sort of a dark teal with green smoke?

1981's Batman #335, shows a different pit on Infinity Island that is orange.

1986's Batman #400, we find yet another pit in Gotham that's bright yellow.

The three issues above are from an era with a more limited color palette available to comics. For more modern references:

The pit in 2000′s Tower of Babel (this page from JLA #46) is red-orange.

2001′s Birds of Prey #34 sees Dinah Lance healed in a yellow-orange pit. In 2006, Cassandra Cain is resurrected in Batgirl #73 in an orange pit that might also be on fire?

Jason Todd was resurrected in a gold/orange pit. Top three panels are from Batman Annual #25 in 2006, part of the Under the Hood arc. Bottom panel is from Red Hood: Lost Days #1 in 2011, and totally matches.

Batman: the Resurrection of Ra’s al Ghul in 2008 shows the only lime green pit I can think of off-hand. This panel is from Nightwing #139.

And in 2010, Kate Kane is resurrected in another orange/gold pit in Batman and Robin #9.

No pics, but in the New 52, Red Hood and the Outlaws #0 shows Jason being resurrected in a green pit in the new continuity so...I guess the entire source of this is people only reading the worst comics. (brb back on my ‘jason fans please read a decent comic’ hill.) And then a number of animated adaptations ran with the Pit being green, and now fans everywhere are convinced that’s universal.

[ectonurites]

i would love to see someone explore jason both as an adult who makes concious decisions about murder, who creates his own moral codex, and who doesn't hesitate to spill blood if he thinks it's right, and as someone who has ptsd from traumatic life in poverty, seeing his own parents die/rot away, and from being murdered slowly and painfully at the age of 15 and then coming back and mentally comprehending that still in his teens, and all the rage he feels, like angry and murderous jason in control vs angry and murderous jason out of control (also the fact that he came back as 18/19 year old and never had proper stationary/human support in his life afterwards, and how much also that fucked him up...)

ok im finally starting to go back and answer some old asks BUT YEAH!!! YAH YEAH YEAH!!! 

Jason has some of the most interesting potential as a character, there are so many complexities and layers to his actions and why he does things the way he does, but I just feel like DC has dropped the ball on him so bad because Jason basically exists as a challenge to Batman and even though everything Jason does isn’t right he does make points! And DC never wants Batman to look bad or wrong for more than maybe part of a story at a time, but it won’t be part of their status quo. So he gets watered down and shipped off to go do Outlaws stuff (2011 putting him on a team with two heroes who don’t really kill, and 2016 setting him in Gotham adopting a no-kill rule to fit in with the fam) or he’s there for all the big batfam group stuff but again not... doing the main thing he was reinvented as the Red Hood to do: Challenge the bats. 

Like, man, I absolutely understand a desire for the bats to be a big happy family but making Jason be part of that just with ‘oh ya know Jason our little black sheep’ rather than actually looking at the huge difference in morals he has from the rest of them... it just cheapens his character. Like for fan content go wild and do what makes you happy that’s what fan content is for, but in terms of the actual official comics Jason should not be included in group things nearly as often as he is. (Like, Joker War makes total sense for him to be part of because of his Joker trauma but like, man, even though I thought he was handled pretty well when there in the Batwoman Trial thing in Detective Comics 2016 him being included in a round table about the morality of another person in the batfam killing someone at all just feels so wrong to me. That’s just a completely different Jason than the guy I became interested in from before the reboot, ya know?) 

I really enjoyed the first part of Zdarsky’s new Jason story though in Urban Legends, and based on the new preview panels for the next part (which includes Jason talking about the difference between killing nameless faceless guys who were attacking him vs him impulsively killing someone, and how much the second thing was fucking him up, I think that’s definitely an interesting take that feels in line with Jason. Because when Jason knows someone is evil and bad and trying to hurt innocent people he will take them down, that’s what he does, but when it’s a heat of the moment thing and he knows the little kid who he’s gonna have to break the news to that his dad is dead, that’s so much harder) I think he’s taking a really cool route with him as a character. 

But yeah in general I just... want nuanced Jason takes, from fandom and official content. Not just ‘oh hes crazy from the pit sometimes but otherwise hes fine’ or chalking it up to just angst or whatever. I just... care the him, and am so glad Lobdell is hopefully never gonna touch him again 😌

[northoftheroad]

The Wayne family

Sometimes, when I read Batman fanfiction, I wonder whether the writer has been reading the same comic books as I have. Because they paint a picture of a big, happy Wayne family where the kids are very close and sometimes the whole bunch even live together. 

Now, I do know the difference between canon and fanfic. And I get that wishful thinking and selective reading plays a big part. But still, I'm curious where these conceptions come from.

Just to be clear. I do think of Bruces adopted/foster children as a family because they have a common father(figure). But they have not grown up together. It depends on what DC continuity you're playing with, of course, but most of them are in their teens when Bruce Wayne comes into their lives and they can’t have lived more than a few years with him. Several of them have not lived together. So even if I let my imagination run amok, I can't see them living at the Manor together as a tight-knit family, and I don't think all of them know each other very well.

Batman and Robin vol 2 # 10. By Peter Tomasi, art Patrick Gleason and Mick Gray.

Dick Grayson had moved out (or been kicked out, depending on what version you go with) when Jason Todd came along (and Bruce suffered from empty nest syndrome). Jason was dead when Tim Drake came into the picture, and Tim lived with his parents or boarding school in the beginning. Even if Dick kept in pretty close contact with Tim, he had a permanent home elsewhere.

Batman: Gotham Knights # 45. By Scott Beatty, art Roger Robinson and John Floyd. 

I admit I haven't read a lot with Cassandra Cain. As far as I understand, after Flashpoint she has never lived in the Manor. Before Flashpoint, she was adopted, but I don’t believe she lived long in the Manor, and the only other Wayne adoptee she can have shared the home with is Tim. 

Edit: At least, Bruce probably did have time to adopt Cass, even though he promised to do it in Batman: Redemption Road (2008), just before the story arc Batman RIP where he, presumedly, died. They certainly did not live together as a family for long. 

Batgirl: Redemption Road # 6. By Adam Beechen, art Jim Calafiore and Jack Purcell.

I’m sure there are cute panels of Tim and Cass out there, but I’m picking some from comics I know of.

Batgirl # 50. By Dylan Horrocks, art Rick Leonardi and Jesse Delperdang.

Batman: Family # 7. By John Francis Moore, art Steve Lieber and Stefano Gaudiano.

Tim was an older teenager when Damian al Ghul/Wayne dropped into the house and immediately tried to get rid of Tim the hard way, and I don’t think they spent a long time under the same roof until Bruce "died", and soon after Tim left (at least partially). 

Batman # 657. By Grant Morrison, art Andy Kubert and Jesse Delperdang.

Dick moved in with Damian and raised him (for about a year). When Bruce first came back he travelled with Batman Inc, and Dick and Damian continued to live together. There were times when you could find Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian and Alfred in the Manor at the same time, but not living permanently together. 

Batman & Robin vol 1 # 20. By Peter J. Tomasi, art Patrick Gleason and Mick Gray.

Now, Flashpoint, New 52 and Rebirth makes it even more impossible to puzzle together a credible timeline for everything Bruce Wayne is supposed to have done and everyone's relationship with each other. We’ll end up with Jason being Robin for about a month... But, anyway...

At the start of New 52, Dick has gone back to Nightwing and moved into his own flat in Gotham. He’ll continue to move around in different cities so he’s clearly not living with any other Wayne. By then, Cassandra is retconned out of the family and I haven’t seen any sign that Jason lives at the Manor with Bruce and Damian (and I don’t know about Tim either).

Fast forward into Rebirth, and Duke Thomas stayed and trained with Bruce for a while. If any of the other kids lived there at the same time is anybody's guess, but you can see the whole Bat-family (including, for instance, Stephanie Brown and Luke Fox) share a happy meal in the Manor, so at least they socialize from time to time. I’ve read somewhere that Duke since has moved in with relatives.

In canon right now, as far as I can make out, the only one who (at least sometimes and varying between the books) lives with Bruce and Alfred in the Manor is Damian. 

Another fanon exaggeration on the opposite part of the scale, in my opinion, is the penchant for portraying Dick and Jason's relationship as extremely bad from the start.

There are three different versions of how they met before Flashpoint. The first time, when Jason was a circus-boy Dick clone, Dick originally wanted to take him in, but Bruce stepped in instead (DC needed a new Robin for Batman, after all). The second time, Bruce had fired Dick from Robin because he was shot by the Joker and then promptly picked up Jason, after Dick had left. The third time (Nightwing Year One), Bruce fired Dick and kicked him out (I tend to ignore this version mostly, to be honest, because Bruce is ridiculously much of an ass here) and then, as you know, took in Jason.

And it's not that Dick loves Jason straight away, or the fact Bruce took in a new Robin by the blink of an eye, in the two later versions. But he still gives Jason his old Robin suit and his phone number in version two and in version three, they part on decent terms, and Dick tells Bruce (by recording) that he could have done worse.

After that, they hardly meet before Jason is killed because Dick is working with the Titans and doesn't live in Gotham. Pre-Crisis on Infinite Earths Jason helped the New Teen Titans a few issues (Dick was busy getting in the hands of Brother Blood and being brainwashed, at the time) in New Teen Titans vol 2 # 20–31. And there is a snapshot of Dick and Jason hanging out as civilians in Nightwing vol 2 issue 63. That's about it. 

Nightwing vol 2 # 63. By Chuck Dixon, art Trevor McCarthy and Karl Kesel. 

Then, of course, Jason came back from the dead slightly unhinged (2005). I don't know the whole picture of meetings or confrontations between the Bat-kids between Jason's comeback and Flashpoint (2011). I do know he dressed up as Nightwing and killed people in Nightwing vol 2 # 118–122. When Jason was abducted, Dick struggled a bit with the question "Is it ethical for me to save someone who's a danger to society?" before he went to save Jason. In the end, Jason sends a telegram where he says "Thanks for coming for me, brother. I know we don't agree on much. I just wanted to believe we could be family again." Tim and Dick also had a confrontation with Jason in Teen Titans (2003) # 47, and Dick and Jason had a not very amicable meeting in the Outsiders v 3 # 44.

Nightwing vol 2 # 118 –122. By Bruce Jones, art Joe Dodd, Paco Diaz, BIT and Nathan Massengill. 

And then we have Battle for the Cowl, where Jason shot Damian, left Tim for dead and tried to kill Dick after he had refused to become Robin to Jason's Batman. (I guess there are Jason fans out there who think that Dick was not justified to put Jason in jail after that. Obviously, I'm not one of them, but if anyone dislikes these years in canon and decides to ignore it to the best if their ability, who am I to judge?)

So, the Wayne boys definitely had a partly antagonistic, partly close, partly distant relationship. After Flashpoint, I think it has in been portrayed as better. At least, I haven't seen them try to kill each other...  Tim calls Damian "gremlin", Jason is Damian's secret mentor (or so I've seen somewhere), they sometimes meet on the rooftops and work together. On the other hand, the previously close relationship between Dick and Tim seems pretty much forgotten. (Let's hope they start remembering that soon again.)

Detective Comics # 975. By James Tynion IV, art Raul Fernandez and Alvaro Martinez.

Somewhere in Batman and Robin Eternal, Jason says that Tim is the only of the other Robins that he likes. (I honestly don't know where that came from, I never noticed them seeing eye to eye before. Still, it's not like I've read every Bat comic ever printed. But then, I rather believe the same goes for a number of DC writers... Edit: I’ve been informed that it’s probably from a flashback in an issue of Red Hood and the Outlaws.) In RH and the outlaws annual 1 (I think that’s the only issue of that series I’ve read, to be honest), Jason narrates that there was a time when he would have killed Dick on sight. "Not my proudest moment. We've made up since then." They have a complicated relationship, but they are still somehow clearly brothers, and Jason thinks back to when he saw the Flying Graysons perform and how Dick was a hero to him then (another retcon after Flashpoint).  As far as I know, it's the only post-Flashpoint retelling of how Jason and Dick met, and the story is that Alfred puts Jason in Dick's room so he wouldn't have to clean a new one. Dick is not happy to find someone in his bed when he comes home to visit. They fight. Honestly, I can't imagine Alfred doing that, so that's one version of the canon I’m happy to overlook...

On the other hand, we have Jason and Dick hanging out on the rooftops in Blüdhaven in Nightwing vol 4 # 15, and Dick, Jason and Damian certainly bicker like siblings (together with Duke) in Batman vol 3 # 16 and # 33.

Nightwing vol 4 # 15. By Tim Seeley, art Minkyu Jung. 

Batman vol 3 # 16. By Tom King, art David Finch. 

On the whole, I think the only thing you can be sure of about the relationships between the Wayne family members these days is that it varies quite a bit between titles and writers and has had its ups and downs over the years. But that they have never lived together as one big, happy family.

Of course, all this is based on the comic books I’ve read, and there might very well be stories out there that paint a different picture. But on the whole, I’m pretty confident that this panel is about as close to a happy family gathering we’ve seen. And then it’s not only the Waynes but the Bat family.

Batman and the Signal. By Scott Snyder and Tony Patrick, art Cully Hamner.

[secretlystephaniebrown]

I'm new to the Batman comics and was wondering if you could answer a question? I saw another blog talking about Batman adopting kids and how it helped him recover which I follow for the most part. But then they said he relapsed after Jason. What happened to Jason? I don't mind spoilers, it helps me get through the darker parts.

… oh gosh you poor soul. 

Okay so um. 

Well first of all let me start off with saying that if you can find it, you should track down the animated movie Under the Red Hood. It’s a very solid, if streamlined, adaptation of everything I’m about to tell you, and it probably will do a better job than I ever could.

Let’s continue this under the cut, because this got long, and I have pictures, some of which will be… unpleasant, as will be the topics discussed. Warnings for violence, death, and references to sexual assault below! 

Now, since you’re new to comics, I’ll give you a quick rundown. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #368)

Jason Todd was the second Robin, and he had the misfortune of being the first attempt to make the role a legacy. 

He was a very controversial figure. Dick Grayson was widely beloved, and while Jason had his fans, he also was present in a time in comics when many people, both among the readers and the writers for DC, believed that kid sidekicks weren’t dark enough, and fans of Dick often found Jason to be unlikable and too edgy. Jason smoked, he was lower-class and drew attention to a lot of the less palatable parts of Gotham, his mother died of a drug overdose, and he became Robin by stealing the tires off the Batmobile. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #408)

And infamously, towards the end of his run as Robin, he might have possibly killed a rapist who would have gotten off otherwise because of diplomatic immunity. 

Batman (1940-2011) #424

… yeah. That was a thing. 

A lot of Jason’s “bad Robin” stuff which he has become slightly infamous for was in fact retconned in after… everything else, but, as seen in this story above, Jason was a character who was pushing a lot of traditional boundaries in Batman comics, and the violence and temper were there from the beginning, but it was presented as something that Jason was relatively in control of, and that Bruce was helping him with.  

(Batman (1940-2011) #411 - for context, Two Face killed Jason’s father)

But Jason had some bright spots; he joined the Teen Titans briefly, he was Robin present for For the Man Who Has Everything, one of the most famous comic stories during that time, and had a pretty decent relationship with Dick Grayson (which… they retconned later.) 

(Batman (1940-2011) #416)

And then, in 1988, one bright DC executive decided to try a gimmick to drum up publicity for the upcoming storyline Batman: A Death in the Family. (Because those always work out well.) It was decided that in the upcoming story, they would have a phone poll, to see if Robin lived or died. 

The vote was taken, and the people spoke. Jason was to die. 

(I’ll note here that there’s a LOT of controversy about the vote; apparently there was a robo-calling scam, people were charged per-call so younger readers couldn’t vote, people weren’t sure if the question pertained to Dick or Jason, and some people voted just to see if DC would actually do that.) 

So Jason undertook a rather fascinating story where he discovered that the woman who had raised him wasn’t his birth mother, and began to track down his birth mother. After a few false leads, including Lady Shiva, he eventually tracked down his birth mother, Sheila Haywood, who was a volunteer doctor in Ethiopia. Jason and her had a relatively cute reunion, before it was revealed that Sheila was involved with the Joker, who was blackmailing her. 

Batman (1940-2011) #427

Jason, against Bruce’s advice, revealed his identity as Robin to Sheila and offered to help. She then lured him into a trap, where the Joker beat Jason to near-death with a crowbar.   

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

While she smoked a cigarette.

Batman (1940-2011) #427 

The Joker double-crossed Sheila, because he’s the Joker, and left her and Jason both to die in the warehouse with a bomb. Despite his injuries, Jason tried to rescue Sheila and get them both to safety, but he wasn’t fast enough. 

(For the record, anyone who blames Jason for his death here can fight me. He was trying to help his mother, and it bothers me a lot that most interpretations cut out this angle.)

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

Sheila, possibly having some regrets, managed to tell Bruce that Jason had tried to save her before she died. Jason had no such opportunity to exchange last-words with Bruce. 

(Batman (1940-2011) #427)

Bruce had arrived at the warehouse just in time to see it blow up, which shook him to his core, and for which he blamed himself.

I can’t emphasize enough how huge this was to comics at the time; the death of Robin was a major shakeup to the status quo, and for years Jason Todd was defined as one of the three perma-dead characters in comics. (The others being Bucky Barnes and Uncle Ben.) 

The Joker then… went off and had a wacky sideplot about getting diplomatic immunity by becoming the ambassador for Iran, and then he tried to blow up the United Nations. It was… weird. 

But back to Jason, his death severely shook up Bruce for years. 

Batman: Gotham Knights (2000-2006) #45

His costume literally haunted Bruce in the Batcave in the form of the memorial case, and Jason’s death affected Bruce’s relationships with the next three members of the Bat Family; Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain, while the Joker became cemented in his place as The Man Who Killed Robin. 

Batman: Gotham Knights (2000-2006) #44

Batman (1940-2011) #629

Brucefrequently hallucinated Jason, and his fears of losing anotherRobin/Batgirl/protege (compounded by the fact that The Killing Joke happenedjust beforehand) lead to extremely over-protectiveness towards Tim, and shaped hisentire relationship with Stephanie Brown prior to her run as Batgirl. Butthat’s a post in and of itself.

Jason came back from the dead in Under the Red Hood. (The movie version of which kind of… simplified Jason’s death by cutting out the bit about his birth mom. But the details vis-à-vis the Joker and the crowbar remained the same.) In the comic, we don’t see how Jason got resurrected, but it was revealed in a later comic that, in a major event called Crisis on Infinite Earths, a character named Superboy Prime punched the walls of reality and resurrected Jason Todd. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Yes. Really.

Anyways, Jason then had to dig his way out of his own coffin in one of the most horrifying sequences ever. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Jason then wandered Gotham in a catatonic state, living on the streets and scavenging for food, until he and his still-retained fighting skills were recognized by someone, who called Talia al Ghul. Talia tried to help Jason recover on his own, before realizing that wasn’t going to work, so she shoved him in the Lazarus Pit (against her dad’s wishes), which solved the catatonia, and, depending on your interpretation, possibly made Jason violent and angry. 

Most more recent adaptations/continuity reboots chose to place Jason’s resurrection solely as a Lazarus Pit endeavor, which I’m iffy on, simply because Jason digging out of his own grave was an image that really stuck with me when I first read the comics. 

After escaping from Ra’s, Jason started to figure out his new place in the world. Jason discovered that the Joker was still alive, and that there was a new Robin. 

Batman (1940-2011) Annual #25

Red Hood: The Lost Days (2010-2011) #4

This enraged Jason, who set about on a multi-year journey to learn the “skills that Batman never taught him”, before making his return in Under the Red Hood. (Which, I should note, occurred almost directly after the infamous War Games saga, where another Robin, Stephanie Brown, was killed. This isn’t actually addressed in the story itself, but on a meta narrative level, it’s interesting to note.)  

Batman (1940-2011) #635

Jason became a Crime Lord known as only The Red Hood, which was the Joker’s original nome-de-guerre. He played a series of mindgames and plots, before finally revealing his identity to Bruce. His endgame eventually lead to him kidnapping the Joker, beating him with a crowbar, giving Bruce a gun, and telling Bruce that he’d either have to shoot the Joker, let Jason kill the Joker, or shoot Jason. Bruce found a way around that, because he’s Bruce, but Jason vanished afterwards, leaving Bruce dealing with the fact that his greatest failure, to save Jason, had literally come back to haunt him. 

Jason went on to be a villain/anti-villain of various flavors, featuring in Battle for the Cowl, and the preboot’s Batman and Robin by Grant Morrison, before getting an image shift in the Nu52, primarily in Red Hood and the Outlaws, which shifted him into anti-hero territory. 

But that’s another story entirely. 

Hopefully this has answered your questions! Panel credits all go to @renaroo, who’s always the best to call up for screenshots.

[pluckyredhead]

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 (2011)

It's been a while since I've read RHATO, so I figured I'd reread it - and if I'm doing that, why not make you all suffer with me? I will probably get tired of this before I finish all the various series, but let's see how far we get.

Roy, that would probably work better if your bow had a string.

The issue begins with Roy in a prison in Qurac for trying to overthrow a dictator. He's rescued by Jason, in disguise as a pastor in a fat suit (sigh). There's so much wrong with these opening pages: the fat suit, the writing off an entire Middle Eastern nation as evil and corrupt, the fact that there's no way even a collapsed bow would fit inside a hollowed-out bible, the lazy way the panel layouts waste space...and yet. And yet.

These pages. THESE FUCKING PAGES. "His name is Roy Harper. He's an idiot. Nice guy, but an idiot." "His name is Jason Todd. A lot of people say he's crazy...Let's just say the Red Hood is my kind of crazy!"

This kind of parallel narration always makes me think of the 2003 Superman/Batman comic, which used it extensively, to extremely (and likely unintentionally?) homoerotic effect. After I read this issue, I told a friend that I got it now: Red Hood and the Outlaws was Superman/Batman for edgelords.

Which is to say, I'm pretty sure I started shipping these assholes just from these first terrible pages.

(But seriously, there are three pages up there and only five panels. Five panels! Plus some pointless maroon boxes that don't do anything! I want my money back.)

This panel is super misleading, because it implies that Roy and Jason know each other well enough for Jason to tease Roy about being a chatterbox, but later issues will show that barely know each other at this point. But then, trying to keep the backstories straight in this or any Lobdell book is like watching sand run out between your fingers.

And again here, it implies that they were already friends, a team, partners...something. But later we'll learn that they only met once, and it was years ago, when they were kids, so...what gives?

(This page is actually interesting, because Jason is constantly saying playfully mean things to Roy and Roy never seems to mind, but here he clearly hurts Roy, and he knows it.)

Siiiiigh.

To add insult to injury, Jason immediately announces that he's fucked Kori. You'll notice I aggressively ignore this in every fic I've ever written. Part of that is because I love Secret Virgin Jason, but also it just doesn't mesh with his and Kori's relationship throughout the rest of the series or his hilarious lack of game in general, and it's also so inextricably part of Amnesiac Sex Doll Kori that I just want nothing to do with it.

HATE. HAAAAAATE. The devious smile on Jason's face in the bottom row and Roy's calculating expression are so deeply disgusting to me. "This woman can't meaningly consent! She's like a cave fish with a vagina! Sweet!" Scott Lobdell is a vile human being and so is everyone who signed off on this piece of shit. (Fun fact: this was a HUGE controversy when the New 52 launched and the outcry was so loud they walked it back in a later issue when Kori tells Roy she...just lied about all of that for no reason? Okay.)

Also, "ask her about the gang you used to hang with." Uh...what gang is that, Jason? Because Donna didn't exist at this point, Wally was 12, Garth was a literal baby, Vic joined the League immediately upon getting his powers, and Gar was a child being tortured in a lab somewhere. So was it just Roy, Dick, and Raven? And they certainly weren't the Titans, because Tim's team was the founders in this continuity...which Lobdell should have known, since he was also writing that book.

The person asking to speak to Jason is Essence, his ex, who tells him something cryptic about murder victims with missing organs.

YOU DON'T KNOW MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE EITHER, ROY!!! "Remember Garth? The baby?" (Literally, he is a baby who shows up for one panel. In Atlantis.) And who the fuck is Dustin?

Anyway, Kori propositions Roy and he's like "Sure, why not." Did the target audience actually think this was hot? It's so depressing.

Essence tells Jason that something called the Untitled has attacked something called the All Caste, and Jason makes a surprised Pikachu face.

Elsewhere, a guy in a basement looks at a picture of Kori online.

I will admit to liking two things about this page: the fact that Jason's helmet is in the nightstand implies that Roy and Kori fucked in Jason's bed, which is either hilariously rude or an invitation that sailed right over Jason's head, and the red hand print on Roy's chest. It's the first glimpse of a recognizable Roy in this book; he did always like getting manhandled by scarily powerful women, pre-Flashpoint.

Jason goes...somewhere, to a temple of sorts with a lot of vague cultural appropriation going on, and kneels over the corpse of an old lady. "I'm sorry I wasn't here for you, Ducra," he says, before a bunch of people attack him. END OF ISSUE!

And that's Red Hood and the Outlaws #1! It's confusing, misogynistic, lazily drawn, and not very funny, and there's no reason to be invested in whatever the fuck happened at the end because I know nothing about Ducra, Essence, the All Caste, or frankly, this version of Jason. And yet I am absolutely going to read nine more years' worth of this shit. See you in issue #2!

[pluckyredhead]

Red Hood and the Outlaws #2 (2011)

I'm continuing to make choices.

At least Roy remembered to string his bow this time.

When we last left our hero, he had returned to the headquarters of the All-Caste to find a dead old woman named Ducra. Issue #2 begins with a flashback of Talia taking a recently resurrected Jason to "the Hundred Acres of All," which I guess is supposed to sound cool but just makes me think of Winnie the Pooh. Jason meets Ducra, he sasses her, she kicks his ass but agrees to train him.

Cut to "three hours ago" and Jason and Roy on a plane:

Jason dresses extremely formally in this run and it does feel pretty incongruous to me because Jason doesn't strike me as someone who cares for formality or appearances. I've chosen to headcanon this as Jason rigidly emulating Alfred and Bruce's notions of adult male fashion, especially in situations in which he's uncomfortable, because if he can project wealth and power the way Bruce does, maybe people won't see his painful backstory and soft underbelly. It doesn't really work with Jason's love of telling everyone his trauma to make them feel bad for him, but...look, man, RHATO is incredibly bougie, I don't know what to tell you.

Roy, meanwhile, is essentially just a series of scribbles. "Stage three clinger" is kinda funny, though.

(Roy is actually historically very, very good at not clinging to the people who are constantly abandoning him, but he latches onto Jason for dear life. I know that's because this Lobdell has never read a Roy comic before this, or anything at all including a cereal box or his own sentences he has just written, but I choose to believe it's because Jason is special.)

Oh, Isabel, honey. Don't bother climbing unprofessionally into the next seat like a lunatic. The man is Undateable.

(I'm not posting every panel but on the next page she gets him a second drink - "Soft drink, extra ice" - and Jason's like "Good memory!" "SOFT DRINK" IS NOT THE NAME OF A DRINK. "Liquid in a cup." "Good memory!")

Anyway Isabel hurls herself at Jason for a few more panels and then gives him her number and Jason fully and completely cannot process it for some reason:

I know Jason is supposed to come off in this series like a cool macho dude getting all the ladies, but scenes like this just...don't work? If Jason is supposed to be a stud who has already hooked up with Talia, Essence, Rose, and Kori, why can he literally not complete a sentence here? I feel like this reads much more like a very, very young man who missed most of his teen dating years to death and vengeance and has very little experience.

They arrive in Hong Kong, where Kori meets them in a limo. Why fly away from Kori and then meet her in a limo? Apparently just to show Jason and Kori both spending conspicuously so that readers will know they are rich and therefore cool, and for no narrative or characterization purpose. How did Kori get money? Hush your mouth.

Is the "gorilla" in the room Dick? Both Kori and Jason explicitly stated in the previous issue that she doesn't remember him, so why would she be upset here? Is it that Jason and Kori have supposedly slept together and now Roy and Kori are sleeping together? Both Jason and Kori have ALSO explicitly stated that they don't care. Is this dialogue meaningless? Yes!

Jason refuses to take them to his safe house because last time he did they "soiled [his] sheets," which I'm taking as confirmation that they did in fact fuck in his bed last issue. In the safe house, he finds a woman named Suzie Su and her henchmen, who he quickly shoots a bunch and seemingly kills. We don't know who Suzie is or why this matters.

Cut to the team jumping out of a helicopter over the Himalayas during a freak thunderstorm, where we learn that Jason has gloves with metal wings that allow him to fly or at least glide. This is dumb, but it's extra dumb when you remember that Lobdell gave Tim an almost identical gimmick at the same time in Teen Titans. (He writes Jason and Tim identically in general: hyper competent and extremely bougie Gary Stus with the comebacks of a dull 12-year-old.)

They land in the All-Caste HQ to find everyone dead.

NOW HOLD ON JUST A DING-DANGED MINUTE. In issue #1, we explicitly saw Jason leave Roy and Kori in bed and come here for that scene in the middle panel, alone. Now supposedly Roy and Kori are there? We are an issue and a half in and there's already a massive continuity error? WHY DID THIS MAN GET PAID TO WRITE THIS BOOK FOR TEN YEARS???

The All-Caste come back as zombies (why? not explained) and the Outlaws fight them while Jason flashes back to being trained by them, which is just another generic fight scene. At one point Jason calls the All-Caste warriors "the greatest people I have ever known," but like...we haven't gotten a chance to know any of them, so who cares.

Anyway. Jason is sad, and then tells the others "Let's go kick some ass...team." THE END.

Here's the thing. Whenever you're starting a new story, a new comic, a new universe, whatever, there are always going to be things the reader doesn't know, and gradually learns as the story unfolds. It's not a bad thing that there are some unanswered questions.

However, we don't have any actual sense of who the All-Caste were, what they can do, or how long Jason stayed with them. We aren't shown any significant interactions or relationships between him and Ducra or the generic warriors, none of whom have names or distinguishable faces. There's a little uncreatively quippy dialogue from Ducra, but no actual reason for us to care. To follow this plotline, we need to either like Jason or understand the importance of this relationship or the stakes of the Untitled, and none of that has been sold in these two issues. In fact, I don't think the Untitled are even mentioned in this issue. (I mean, I do like Jason, but not because he wore a fat suit, bragged about fucking Kori, and killed some people, which is all he's done so far in this book.)

We also don't know who Essence is or what her history is with Jason or the All-Caste. And we don't know who Suzie Su is, why she was in Jason's safe house, or whether it matters that he (apparently) killed her. We know nothing about Kori except that she knows nothing about herself, and even less about Roy.

Again, some questions are fine and even good, but this many questions makes the book a parade of disconnected, uninteresting events we don't have any reason to care about. Which isn't a big deal when you're marathoning the series through dubious means in 2023, but I sure as hell wouldn't have paid $2.99 every month for this shit back in 2011.

[aikoiya]

Yes, mofo!

I love this!

jason todd inspo for dpxdc

So I know not everyone is gonna read through comics so here is some dope Jason panels that I think absolutely SCREAM danny phantom xover material.

After coming back from the dead, Talia dropped Jason off with the All-Caste which is like a sect of warrior monks who do magic.

The All-Caste have a nexus chamber that can go ANYWHERE and ANYWHEN and looks absolutely insane and is filled with door ways. It absolutely screams GZ/Infinite Realms material. Jason has been in it multiple times both when learning magic bullshit as a teen and again as Red Hood when trying to track down The Untitled after they killed off all the All-Caste.

Below is a pic of Jason just after he left the All-Caste after getting kicked out and I do think his hair looks like Danny's here so I'm dropping it in for all those ppl who like writing fics where Jason is Danny's universal variant.

I have not found any panels where Jason actually has glowing green eyes but he does glow with occult symbols when meditating.

If you don't know about the All-Blades then just know are fire swords Jason can summon and use to destroy evil. Also they come with a mystic disembodied voice talking about balance and shit sometimes. They're powered by your soul so you can do some real weeb shit with that.

Bonus, sometimes Crime Alley or Gotham are referred to as Jason's Haunt and I think that's beautiful.