#more obvious than oryms feelings

[screechingfromthevoid]

Orym is giving very "I have fallen in love again and that feels like a betrayal to my dead husband" energy.

He's also giving "I care so much about my friends and I have to protect them but the love I have for one is so strong that it's distracting me AND it's not fair to the others"

Like there is so much love contained in the Orym and also so much guilt.

[mareastrorum]

Been chewing more on how C3 wound up here. What’s throwing me is the strange shift from the cast’s unflinching “yes, and” game in C2 to a misplaced feeling that they need to choose correctly in C3.

I want to be clear here that this isn’t a criticism post because I genuinely don’t know what’s happening here. It’s just odd behaviors that seem to signal a problem, and I don’t know what solution would resolve it. I’m not going to be so presumptuous as to hypothesize about any cast member’s thoughts.

In the Cooldown for C3E118 (and offhandedly previously), Laura and Ashley expressed some nervousness about making big decisions because they’re worried about making the “wrong” choice. Without more, that attitude alone would explain much of the party’s indecisiveness about key campaign questions. After all, their characters are the two Ruidusborn of most interest to the campaign villains, and other characters (especially Orym, Laudna, and Ashton) have insisted that Imogen and Fearne take the lead on Predathos.

But this isn’t a story in a vacuum. C2 got completely derailed multiple times. The Mighty Nein decided to steal a pirate ship and leave the continent the campaign was set on; shortly after they returned, they decided to reopen a collapsed tunnel to go the opposite side of the continent; then Caleb returned the Luxon Beacon and made themselves heroes of an enemy nation instantly. That’s not even getting into the fact that Molly died before the Nein got to Shadycreek Run (which absolutely would have been all about his backstory) or that Twiggy left an incredible magical artifact that wasn’t supposed to be given to the Nein. Each time, Matt adjusted and made it work. Granted, C2 was more of a sandbox campaign, but Matt demonstrated his flexibility as a DM time and again.

Like, as a general rule of thumb, DMs shouldn’t offer options that would torpedo the campaign. It’s rational to avoid situations that have a genuine possibility of undercutting the game. Matt has been DMing for a long time; he’s done a very good job of finding ways to make the campaign work regardless of the decisions the players make. Even when players do something directly against the signals he threw out (like Ashton trying to absorb a second shard despite consistent, dire warnings that it would kill him), he works with the players to come to a reasonable solution (Ashton survived but the shard wouldn’t take, and he got some character moments out of the failure). We, the audience, know Matt is good at pivoting when he needs to.

In addition to taking the players’ curveballs like a champ, Matt also takes big swings for the sake of the story. In C1, Matt broke his biggest city with a dragon invasion, then made a new god leading an undead titan to go stomp out the world’s oldest civilization. In C2, he let the players go off the map whenever and still made the digression relevant to their character arcs every time. Not to be parasocial, but if we can figure out that that Matt can handle this sort of thing, the players certainly have a better feel for it than us.

So what is going on in C3? We know Matt isn’t scared of breaking Exandria or destroying the pantheon: he set that possibility in motion as the default ending if the players did nothing. CR literally did a mini series about the start of the end of the world with EXU Calamity. Laura and Ashley were also in Downfall and making big choices between the gods and mortals. Breaking stuff is what they do!

Where did this idea that there’s a “wrong” choice come from? That type of thinking kills a lot of great improv, and the whole point of the “yes, and” exercise is to shake it off. While it’s incredibly obvious to say not to think that way, the real issue is sorting out why that mentality has taken hold at all. That’s a problem no amount of fan discussion is going to resolve.

[shorthaltsjester]

obsessed with the fact that bell's hells won that fight explicitly because of their reliance on the gods. imogen and laudna both vocally saying 'thank you matron' at the beginnings of that combat as they use new skills or spells they've refreshed, orym wielding his sword, braius wielding his divine power, the entire party instilled with a hero's feast prepared by a cleric of the wildmother, imogen using power granted by the arch heart to bring down predathos -- an entity that has been described as welcoming her home, offering a womb she has longed to return to, her as its kin -- in imagery evoking the moment where the gods too decided to turn their backs on their home when faced with the monstrosity they were tied to, that they'd help bring about (something something, the arch heart gave mortals magic and imogen gave predathos its vessel). and the fact that bell's hells has slowly grown more reliant on the idea that predathos does not hunger for mortals -- something they in fact scoffed at when it came from liliana and ludinus' mouths -- predathos took several of them in his maw and tried to consume them.

viewing the story as one of a group of people predominantly blinded to the reality of their situations by the fog of their traumatized feelings -- as i've chosen to do for the sake of my sanity listening to them go on and on about gods that never gave them a lick in the same breath that they complain that the gods have too much power -- it is so extremely poetic that orym cut down ludinus with a sword blessed by the wild mother only for bell's hells to retread the path ludinus set up for himself. it is extremely ironic for a group of people who have implicitly raised complaints about the inherent manipulation that comes with the god's existence to come up with a plan that is explicit manipulation, demanding the gods become mortal or die [which to be clear, extremely interesting plan with interesting consequences that would be compelling to see! absolutely dogshit reasoning skills and moral assessment. but it is continually ASTOUNDING to me that a campaign that gets treated by some as the height of critical role's sociopolitical philosophical exploration features so many PCs who struggle (and not in the fruitful, developmental way but in the head-in-hands, can this student talk to the prof during office hours so I don't have to feel the second hand embarrassment of them making it obvious they haven't ever attended a previous lecture or done the class readings way) with ideas found in any first year philosophy course].

and to be clear this is not me devaluing the role of bell's hells in actually fighting the fight -- but all they've done is the same thing the gods were already doing, keeping predathos sealed, except now its in a volatile-at-best mortal who is on borrowed time re: being lost once again to its power. the only suggestion the hells have that this might be a justified and right course of action is the support of two gods -- one who has proven themself to be okay with the idea of death until it actually arrives before and the other one who is the only being on record who actually chose to be a deity -- out of a much larger pantheon, and their personal inclinations to agree with the ideology of a man who they have claimed to ardently disagree with but it turns out that was just because of his methods, I guess. scattershotting catalysts for change and hoping that change results in a Better World just. on its own (almost like. idk. fate) that you haven't even suggested practical (I'd even take theoretical ones atp) methods to achieve beyond Get Rid of a bunch of beings who are involved in actually extreme amounts of metaphysical and magical infrastructure isn't actually a course of action, its a course of chaos, and that is in fact worse than things staying the way they are if 'the way things are' that you keep referring to has only been shown to, currently, be that you and your friends feel sad and a little miffed that the gods you haven't offered anything to are only willing to do things for you when you serve them. unlike you, a group notorious for the way you do things for people you don't know without asking anything in return (this is sarcasm, if that wasn't clear).

anyway, I will continue to be frustrated by the lack of grounding for either (a) bell's hells having actually incisive and contextualized criticisms of the gods (either their own or from the actual mouths of the 'little guys' they are allegedly fighting for) or (b) more engagement with the fact that bell's hells as a party are not interested in making the morally right choice, they are at Best looking for a morally neutral choice. that said, if I ignore the actual story c3 has portrayed, the last few episodes have been a great wrap-up to a story about how singleminded trauma can make you and how that can lead you to place where there's no longer any Good choices to make, only potentially satisfying ones, where the question of who to satisfy takes the reigns over what is best.

[utilitycaster]

to me i feel like the hells were meant for a campaign more like cr2, which i feel like that's been discussed before even on your blog? like idk orym and braius were the only characters who actually fit this campaign, maybe imogen for obvious reasons. but laudna, fearne, ashton, chetney all felt like they belonged in a lower stakes, more personal campaign

Yes, I have talked about this extensively: honestly, either a Campaign 1 or Campaign 2 structure would have served them better. For what it's worth I feel like everyone other than Laudna managed to make something of it - Fearne and Chetney frankly did a lot of work to explore their concepts, it was just never rewarded or frankly in many cases revisited in any way (again, consequences do not mean punishment; they quite literally just mean that one's actions lead to results that follow from said actions), and while I ended up not caring much for Ashton as a character, I actually think Taliesin played them with a strong logical throughline. But it is true that the plot really, in the end, served none of them, not even Orym or Imogen (Braius it kind of did, but he was developed so late in the game that he was designed around its flaws). There was just never space to really explore the dark fairytale Ashley talked about early on; Tuyen and that other toymaker back in Marquet were never revisited nor was Ruidus's impact on Chetney nor was there an appearance of Doreo, and even Drixlich and the offers to the pirates vanished (side note but Travis is perhaps actual play's best plot thread generator and I think it's telling that he kind of gave up on that eventually because it never fucking went anywhere, after two campaigns where it consistently did). When it comes to Imogen I am reminded of the possibly apocryphal theater review for King Lear that went "the lead actor played the king as though he momentarily expected someone to play the ace;" she was a great concept but at no point inhabited her decisions meaningfully on the rare occasions she made them. Orym was never really given the opportunities Caleb had to explore grief and while I personally am okay with his deal with Morri being canceled, it plus the whole Vax thing really feel like a thumbing of the nose at Liam's RP choices across the decade. Ashton's temporary growth and then regression honestly feel very real, just deeply unsympathetic, though the ending of the story where nothing about the All Minds Burn or his talk with Shady Sally or the titans or the Hishari came up and the genuinely great moment of sacrifice turned into another "and then Essek fixes it for you" was narratively empty. But the more I think about it, the more this was largely a failure of Matt to tell a different kind of story with any measure of success. I think this campaign in many ways played hard to Matt, Marisha, and Laura's weaknesses in particular (and a little bit of Liam's if I'm being honest in the end) whereas the others embraced their strengths, and this is what happened; the rest of the cast kind of made the most of it.

[siensapsap]

C3 E95 SPOILERS AHEAD

An interesting point that I haven't seen anyone make (yet) (I could have missed it) is that Delilah wants Laudna to blame the trauma of her dieing on the sword.

Everyone was hurt by that sword, and that means two things.

1) Orym should have asked before starting to carry it for himself.

2) Laudna should have asked instead of trying to steal it for herself.

Now, for Orym the reasons are kind of obvious as to why he felt like he could take it. It has taken two more people from him than from the others, and I think part of him saw it as carrying the burden of the sword for the entire party. He still should have asked, but he wasn't being unreasonable.

(I don't think Laudna was either from her perspective, but hear me out for a sec.)

Now, why would Laudna feel like she had the right to take the sword for herself without consulting anyone? How does she feel more entitled to it than the others?

I think she connected the added pain from what happened to her after dieing to that sword. And I think that's a combination of a coping mechanism and Delilah playing into that.

Because from Laudna's perspective it's a lot easier to blame the sword for that pain than to have to deal with the fact that it was the person that's still living in your head. It's a lot easier to blame the sword than to accept that your abuser can still hurt you and you have no control over that.

And from Delilah's perspective isn't it a golden opportunity to both shift the blame for that trauma off herself and drive a wedge between Laudna and the party at the same time?

The sword did not hurt Laudna worse than it did Fearne or Orym, but Delilah did. Delilah forced her to live through that nightmare, Delilah refused to let her rest in peace, Delilah is the real problem, not the sword.

This goes for the entire night, btw. Laudna should have asked, but Delilah would never let that happen. That would have meant stronger communication and bonds with her friends, and that would make Laudna less vulnerable to Delilah's manipulation. So she poked and prodded until Laudna couldn't think clearly anymore.

I just think that framing it as if the sword has hurt Laudna worse because she wasn't resurrected immediately is exactly what Delilah would want.

Just like framing this as a Laudna vs Orym thing, instead of Delilah causing problems, is exactly what Delilah would want.

Fuck Delilah.

[nanierose]

I do love how Orym's internal monologue of being 'just a guy', and the actual mechanics of being a fighter, has fed into him making this deal with Nana Morri. If you think about it, fighters when they level up get stronger yes, but unless you take a sub-class like eldritch knight your power up is not as obvious as your cleric friend getting a roster of new spells or a dog sprouting forth from your friend's body. If you were in that world there's a high chance you would just see it as honing your skills, not becoming mega powerful.

So Orym sees himself surrounded by people with magic at their disposal, two with the power of titans now, and then there he is with a sword and a shield. He's been killed by one of their enemies already and got their butt kicked at the Malleus Key. It's only natural he would feel a bit inferior in comparison to his friends. And let's not forget that this was all he had when Will and Derrig were killed.

Last time the sword and shield weren't enough, but up until now he didn't think there was a way to be more than that. And then comes along Nana Morri, the Fatestitcher, who can do anything if only you make a deal with her. And Orym has already pledged life-long service before, so it's obvious to him that's what he should offer. He's a guard, just a 'lil guy, and if he can protect his friends with the power Morri grants it will be worth it. He wanted there to be a tomorrow for everyone and he intends to make sure there is.

[widogaspmauk]

I keep seeing people defending Laudna by saying that even after darkness dropped, Orym kept attacking.

No. He didn’t.

Darkness dropped on the first of his three attacks. Narratively, I can see how those three slide together in a rhythm and stopping after one would take effort. And he stopped. He switched to grasping vine. And when that failed, he used his second attack and stated he attacks the sword, doing a disarming attack. Yes, Laudna still took damage, but Liam specified that he attacked the sword. And then, with a third attack still available, he wastes it and action surges to get the sword. Orym did not keep attacking Laudna once he discovered it was her.

On the flip side, the people talking about Orym keep saying none of his friends had his back (sometimes no one but Dorian), which again isn’t true.

Let’s start with the most obvious: Chetney. Once awake, he had Orym’s back completely. Dorian supported Orym while also trying to diffuse the situation. Fearne didn’t want to get involved. She didn’t want to take a side. I’m sure that hurt, but she didn’t definitively stand with Laudna (although I can see the argument that she was more on Laudna’s side than Orym’s). Ashton might have moved to defend Laudna, but they told her to apologize AND made a comment about understanding why Orym feels the need to wear the sword (which again, I can see how that would hurt). Even Imogen asked Laudna why it was dark (although Orym didn’t hear this).

Orym’s friends didn’t abandon him. They stood between the two and tried to diffuse the situation.

[demigoddessqueens]

Hello may I request a reader whose a star druid and that whenever they're in battle they call upon the constellation to fight with them or become the embodiment of the constellation as they're willing to do whatever it take to protect the one they love. Can it be with Bells Hells or Vox Machina or Even both.

Yeah I’ll give the Bells some love 💕

Masterlist 11

Imogen

She may be at a standpoint with her abilities, coming to grips with her arcane heritage, but she feels inspired in seeing yours at work, the entire forces of the Celestials at your disposal and the unapologetic nature you wield it with

Laudna

Summoning hounds and the dark ichor magic is her trademark but she is in awed fascination at seeing how your magic works, as if it wasn’t obvious enough her ichor hound gets along so well with your constellation hunting one

Orym

He’s felt so down, so lost and seeing you in your element at your strongest is still a bit of comfort to his downtrodden heart, there is still the bits of hope that remain (that it won’t end in tears and more destruction) as you summon the literal heavens to protect him

Dorian

He’s heard of such of your kind before in story books that he would sneak away to read with Cyrus, to see you summon these creations fills him with bittersweet pride at who he used to be

Fearne

A witch in her own right, she’s confident of her skills and is never short in giving you praise as well. Always looking for an excuse to be near you and/or trace the silver dots and lines on your skin

Braius

He may be a paladin of the Hells but he’s completely awestruck when you form into one of the Hunter constellations, looking for any excuse

FCG

The automaton was wary of his powers, given how strong the surges can become but he feels a kinship with you because of how you both realize you’re stronger than what you get credit for

Chetney

He is one of the biggest cheerleaders of the party when he sees you using your powers, sometimes even suggesting if you can create a “werewolf” one for him

Ashton

The Genasi just lays it on thick with the compliments towards you, asking constant questions about your different constellations, how long you have been around, etc.

[caeslxys]

I am SO fascinated to get your take on BH's reaction to Ludinus and Downfall.

*****SPOILERS FOR 102 BELOW*****

As someone who left Downfall with a very negative view of the gods, it's interesting to me that BHs (in particular Imogen) kept saying "but you're just like them" about Ludinus and then not realizing that she was saying that the gods are no better than Ludinus fucking Da'Leth. Yeah, Luda is a hyprocrite. Do you realize that the gods are no better? The GODS.

And BHs comparing themselves to the primes/betrayers as this "fucked-up family" completely ignores the power differential. "They're just little guys! We all make mistakes" but you're saying that about entities that can literally sling 9th levels every 6 seconds without using any resources.

Nothing that can feel and be motivated by loss, rage, fear, and revenge should have that much power. Respectfully.

Sorry this took me so long to answer! I’ve been letting my own thoughts simmer and rewatching the episode in pieces to grasp the Many Many different things that happened on my own because it was Quite A Lot and some of it (the delilah of it all, funnily enough) left me immediately with an overall sense of disappointment that I wanted to sift through before talking Thoughts so that I could determine analysis from bias lol. BUT. I DO HAVE THOUGHTS

Long answer under the read more, but tldr: Apart from Orym, Ashton, and Dorian (simultaneously the most and least surprising!) I don’t think we’ve gotten the full breadth of BH’s opinions at all. In part because this a topic of discussion that requires them actually, well, discussing it to form fully rounded opinions on but also, crucially, because they were expressing opinions and emotions in front of Ludinus. This is important, because Orym/Ashton/Dorian make the most sense to have no reason for holding their true thoughts back in front of either him or the party (obviously in Orym and Ashton’s case, but I’ll be honest in not considering what is now obvious—Dorian has no idea who this guy actually is! Of course he wasn’t opposed to raising his perspective!), whereas other characters—namely Imogen—have many more internal steps and hurdles to actually reaching a conclusion that must happen outside of Ludinus’ eye.

Alright. Long version.

I think it truly speaks to the characters that the ones who reacted the most immediately decisive were Orym—the one whose opinions wouldn’t have changed regardless of what was held within that orb (which. sigh)—Ashton—the punk, anti-authoritarian character who has had an established perspective of the gods and their power for quite some time, perspectives that were in many ways cemented in viewing this piece of history rather than dispelled—and Dorian—someone who, as mentioned earlier, has the least amount of context for who Ludinus is, but who also himself was raised in a comparatively high position of social power so as to understand exactly what Ludinus is saying about the gods’ misusing theirs.

And, of course, Imogen. I’ll admit: I was immediately shocked at her response, but in hindsight of course she responded the way she did. I have talked and gushed and wailed before at how deeply empathetic Imogen is, and how it is also her ultimate fatal flaw (demonstrated explicitly here), so of course her first thought was how she saw the feelings and motives behind the decisions made in downfall and not how it was also an extreme over-reach of power and influence. Of course she did. I think the only person she’s incapable of empathizing with is Delilah lmao.

And to that point: A lot of that seemed, on a rewatch and to me, posturing on her part. So much of Imogen is defined by her guilt and shame and self-loathing and its especially prevalent when she is playing leader—a role she is naturally very good at, but doubts constantly because she does not consider herself “good”. So, often, she does what she thinks others perceive as “good” and “right” and keeps her more complex thoughts to herself until she is in a safe space (often with Laudna), and projects who she thinks others need her to be in the moment.

Laudna, in the same vein, also shocked me that she didn’t push the breach of power here. But, again, she is also right next to Imogen in “bells hells characters most driven by/capable of empathy” (though hers is, unlike Imogen’s, often in conflict with her desires in really compelling ways) so on further reflection—and especially taking into consideration the massive amount of shame she is feeling from swordgate—of course she focused on the empathetic side of it all.

Ultimately we didn’t get much time at all for them to actually discuss and dissect their take-aways on all of downfall in a setting and context that would be free of bias and performance. If i’m honest, I think those conversations need to happen individually instead of in a group, though maybe Dorian’s inclusion and obvious clear decision on his stance being more in line with Ludinus’ may just be enough for Orym alone not to break the conversational thread again with his personal grief (and guilt, but that’s another post lol). I think their real opinions have yet to solidify even for themselves, and we’ll see them truly form in the coming episodes. The Delilah of it all notwithstanding.

Speaking of Orym’s refusal to think about anything—I think he and Imogen both are suffering from Predathos tunnel vision. Honestly I’d argue a good portion of fandom is as well. None of that conversation is ultimately about Predathos, it was about the gods and the role they play and the power they use or over-use or deserve. By focusing so intently on what we all already agree is the wrong and bad solution to this problem, we ignore the problem entirely. It’s one of my main issues with Orym’s stance this whole campaign. If we don’t ask what is to be done with the gods, and the campaign just wraps up with “we defeated the bad guys, yay!” well. What of the ruidusborn, who we know are treated unfairly and unkindly and who suffer through no fault of their own. What of the young vanguard members—the kids—who, also, are only guilty of caving to the idea of peace. What of Aeor, what of Ludinus—what of the cycle that birthed them both. To not engage with the questions being asked for hyperfixating on the Predathos of it all is to leave this campaign, in my opinion, on both a deeply unsatisfying but also deeply hopeless note. The cycle will continue. We may not see it—it may be another thousand, two thousand years before another Ludinus rises—but another Ludinus or Aeor or both will rise, because ultimately no change will have been implemented in the problems which resulted in them.

And—final note, promise—I was talking to a friend about this yesterday but when it comes down to acknowledging the societal implications of downfall, especially in Imogen’s case, I do think it’s going to have to be pointed out first. A lot of Bells Hells are characters who have suffered at the very hands they are trying to save, but also suffered in part and specifically due to a lack of access to knowledge about it all. It does not escape me that the very first scene of campaign three is Imogen attempting to gather knowledge on powers that have made her miserable for a decade and being unable to access them in a library due to her station. That is, to me, more and more becoming the underpinning theme of this campaign—especially as all Ludinus is doing in this moment with the Occultus Thalamus is displaying it; again, obviously Ludinus is wrong in his means (and arrogant in his assumptions that just because of his failures that no one else could find a solution) but this, specifically, the spreading of knowledge—that, I 100% find myself in agreeance with. So it’s not that they won’t understand what characters like Ashton and Dorian, both hyperaware of the implications of power here, are or will be saying. It’s that they literally do not know to think about it like that. Why would they. It has been intentionally kept from them.

Anyway I have no idea if that was uh. Sufficient Enough of an answer adksfjd at some point I just started yapping but! I’m intrigued, especially because of Dorian’s adamant belief, in what conclusions they’ll draw moving forward as the discussions truly begin! Hopefully! Hopefully they will discuss it!

[tiredqueermushroom]

all of exu trio please?

Dorian

First Impression:

You're gonna be my favourite. There's more hidden underneath that classic bardic charm.

Impression Now:

Omg, he's just like me fr fr. An anxiety ridden master compartmentaliser, who is desperate for parental approval and desperate to strike out on his own. God I love him.

Favourite moment:

The entirety of episode 105 from summoning coriolis to his conversation with his father 10/10 no notes.

Honourable mention: His speech to dariax about real evil also "Kill your mother."

Idea for a story:

Just pure silken squall exploration. I want to know how dorian mastered his compartmentalision skill, more dorian childhood/lore please mister daymond!

Unpopular opinion:

A lot of people only like dorian because they ship him with orym and it's very obvious. So of the most egregious dorian takes come from these people, because they don't view him as an independent character but rather an extension of orym (disclaimer, I like do/my don't come at me.) Some of yall are weirdly racist about Dorian, especially when trying to 'defend' orym from rightful critism, it's kinda crazy.

Favourite relationship/s:

The exu trio! They keep each other grounded and sane. They also can see through each other's masks better than anyone else. Also, they shared a bed together what's not to love.

Favourite headcannon:

He's autistic! Also that hair is super important to squall culture, so dorian having his hair up and therefore shorter is his way of mourning cyrus.

Fearne

First impression:

I love this ditsy girl!

Impression Now:

Omg you are so much deeper than I gave you credit for. You hide your complex and real feelings behind a mask of smiles and giggles. Bet you related hard to when dorian said he finds strength in a smile, huh?

Favourite Moments:

It's a tie between the coin flip resurrection and the aftermath of watching ashton die. In both these moments, we get to see behind the mask fearne wears and get a peek at how much she is both terrified and angered by the idea of losing her friends, her family.

Idea for a story:

An in-depth exploration of her feelings of guilt about reviving orym instead of Laudna and how this interacts with her feelings of discomfort about being pressured about the shard. Specifically, her feelings around laudna and Imogen, saying they were disappointed in her during the truth trial.

Unpopular opinion:

Same issue I have with Dorian. A lot people don't care about how deep of a character can be with most of her bigger moments being overshadowed by other characters or not given the attention it needs. Some people only like her as the big-breasted ditsy thief.

Favourite relationship/s

Fearne & Orym! They both care about each other so much that they don't want to worry they other, so they lie/ tell half truths to each other. Orym would follow Fearne to the ends of the Exandria, and Fearne would carry him on her shoulders the whole way.

Favourite headcannon:

The coin actually landed on Laudna, but fearne could not and would not be able to stand the loss of her bestie, especially so soon after losing dorian. No matter what the coin said, she would have chosen orym, and the Fey are inherently selfish after all.

Orym

First impression:

Woah, slow down lil man you can only fit some much grief in your tiny body.

Impressions now:

My god I don't know how you can keep fitting all that grief and guilt in there!

Favourite moments:

Definitely, him crying at dorian, telling him he doesn't have to protect everyone. Orym had been carrying the weight of protecting everyone for so long, that he forgot that he's a person, not just a sword and shield to be thrown in front of people. Also, any time he's said he misses dorian because it sounds like an I love you. So much of how orym loves has been defined by longing and missing will, so naturally missing dorian is as easy as loving will. Bonus, him dancing in the rain with otohans sword and carrying that heavy weight with him was so cinematic.

Idea for a story:

Orym apologising to Dorian for his comment about cyrus during the post downfall talk. To recognise that he didn't trust that dorian would ultimately choose to save people despite his opinions on the gods. Especially after dorian revealed how heavily cyrus' death weighs on him as well as how important trust is to him.

Unpopular opinion:

While I acknowledge that orym has gotten some bad faith criticism in the past that doesn't mean all criticism he receives is unfair. Case in point, in some people's attempts at 'defending' orym after people were rightfully put off by his comment about cyrus. Some started using racist language towards Dorian and robbie, e.g robbie needing to watch his tone or that dorian needs to be 're-educated'. Which is especially crazy considering robbie is a native man. All that to say, orym is not above criticism and some of yall need to stop acting like it.

Favourite relationship/s:

Exu trio! Orym's need to protect fearne superseding his own safety is so juicy, he would die for his bestie. That man is so painfully in love with dorian that it makes him look stupid lol. The need to depend on someone vs the fear that the minute he let's his guard down everything will come crashing down. Both of them keep orym grounded, fearne reminding him how to let loose and dorian reminds him that he doesn't have to shoulder every responsibility by himself and that he can share his burdens.

Favourite Headcannon:

He has a tail and obviously he has PTSD. But the first night dorian was back was the first time he's slept well in a long time. The bed was perfect.

[screechingfromthevoid]

I don't think Orym is a jealous man. I don't think Braius flirting with Dorian is really doing anything. Besides making him insecure.

Orym will definitely convince himself that Dorian would prefer Braius. He's more on Dorian's level both physically and class wise. Hes only 3 inches taller than Dorian and they can bond over art. To Orym it'd the obvious choice, to choose Braius. It'd make sense that the tall beautiful bards would fall for each other. He doesn't see Braius' flirting as a threat because he doesn't even know he's in the running.

And because he's not a jealous man, if he truly saw Dorian show genuine interest in Braius, Orym would accept it. He'd understand. He'd swallow his feelings and keep them to himself. Because he doesn't think he should have these feelings in the first place. BECAUSE he doesn't want to get in the way or impose or ruin what they already have.

DORIAN HOWEVER is super jealous. As a younger sibling to a golden child I know how possessive someone can get over attention. That's why it was all shy smiles and biting pencils when Braius was flirting with him. But the moment Braius flirted with Orym he was immediately at attention. Because that's his little warrior. If anyone is going to flirt with Orym it will be him.

I think if Brauis (Sam) changed up his technique and started flirting with Orym more, we'd have Dorym love confession in like two weeks. I don't think Dorian can handle competition. Not about this. Not with Orym's heart on the line.

[astralleywright]

How do you feel about Orym's deal with Morri?

There was something kind of funny about Liam getting increasingly obvious - 'ORYM HAS DARK VINES IN HIS VEINS. YOU CAN ALL SEE THIS.' and it still going unacknowledged, but now it just feels like a damp squib. (to me at least)

anon i had no fucking idea what a damp squib was. i thought you mispelled squid. it makes perfect sense now that i've looked it up-you damn british-and i agree but i was SO confused about what squids had to do with any of this

anyways, onto the actual answer-yeah. it's a shame, because its one of the most interesting decisions Orym has made, and maybe the most interesting one that has managed to stick around and inform the character, but. it's been treated so underwhelmingly so far that its hard not to think about it as such.

and i don't blame the other hells at all, really. they were on the moon! and then FCG died and who knew if Orym's deal was relevant any longer! one of their own spontaneously learning to teleport is just an average tuesday for them! (as i've joked before, they might just think its ashari shit! [FCG voice] he's doing it! his aramante!)

as someone who's been playing a similarly reticent and repressed character for the last year and a half in a weekly COfD game, one thing i quickly learned is that if you sit back and wait for the other pcs to ask, you might be waiting a really long time. if you're waiting for the other pcs not just to ask but to push and prod over your continued avoidance, you might be waiting forever. the other players are fallible, and probably don't know your character as well as you, and have their own characters as well as a billion other things to focus on. they may be too wrapped up in their own problems or the problems of the pcs who already shared to (or might simply be playing a character that would not) ask about yours.

take the confession during swordgate: it was in the middle of a tense situation where one of the party members (Laudna) was in clear emotional distress, two of them (Imogen and Ashton) were completely focused on her, and two of them (Dorian and Braius) didn't know what Orym even meant by it or that it was a secret up to that point. that left Fearne and Chetney, and Chetney may or may not have been asleep at the time. so that leaves Fearne. she clearly clocked it and has the most reason to care, but Fearne is honestly even more emotionally repressed and avoidant than Orym, and with all due respect to Ashley, she is not who i would rely on for "initiating rp conversations" and "remembering things."

(Also Fearne tried to check on Orym earlier that day and this was his response, so like.)

TTRPGS are collaborative, yeah, but i would argue that part of that is not leaving the responsibility of your own character’s development largely to the other players. Or if you do, accepting that you might be playing a character whose vivid inner life remains entirely hidden, and also that that might not be as interesting to the other players as the things they can readily interact with. Which makes it less likely for them to follow up on it, and so on, until "sold the rest of my life to a hag to protect everyone" kind of feels like a damp squib.

[towards-toramunda]

i don't want to get my hopes up with ashrym because it's definitely a long shot, but whenever my hopes get too down i try to remind myself that at around this point in c2 both caleb and beau were in love with jester

I’ve been doing the same shit lol. Comparing ship timelines from last campaign and all and reminding myself I love a slow burn more than anything (and a slow burn makes more sense for Orym)

…my hot take is I feel that Orym is more obvious about liking Ashton than Caleb was with Jester by this point last campaign (to me) and I feel like Orym has been very very obvious in recent episodes with his attraction to Ashton (the naked lava ogling, the “they care about you, *I* care about you”, the forehead kiss, how distraught he was at seeing Ashton essentially die, etc) and to me it seems pretty clear that Orym has more than just platonic feelings for Ashton

[utilitycaster]

no d20 spoilers here since i know you know the gist of the drama but the fact that both kipperlilly (and the ratgrinders as a whole) and laudna are sending the their respective fandoms into meltdowns is FASCINATING to me!!! Especially happening at roughly the same time

I am now officially caught up and. not to brag but, called it re: the Rat Grinders, huh, except it's even more stupid. Like. The "but they're literally minors?" argument sort of falls apart given that they're the same age as the Bad Kids, and are actively trying to kill them, the "but redemption" argument doesn't mean shit since at no point did they make any forays towards redemption and indeed sicced a bunch of dragons on the Bad Kids, and so we're left with nothing but an impotent desire to not have a sick-ass battle in the finale of a D20 Campaign. And, perhaps, an uncomfortable realization that they are not unlike the Rat Grinders and the narrative said "lmao yeah you suck".

Laudna's shit? not that different actually. Like there's a lot of reasons why the arguments defending her are bullshit but the biggest one is that the "Laudna has never done anything wrong ever in her life and Imogen is her tether" crowd have painted themselves into a delightfully tiny little corner and they can't hide it anymore. Like, okay, so, is Laudna in control of her actions? Because if so she just attacked Orym in the middle of the night. Is she not? Because if so why hasn't she made the efforts that Chetney and FCG and Imogen (at least sometimes) did to address that? If the issue is trauma why is hers more valid than that of others? If it's abuse tell me how you feel about Caleb, Fjord, Beau, and Percy? Why is Orym shutting down the conversation when he says the Vanguard killed his family but Laudna's not doing the same when she tells Ashton not to speak to her of loneliness and Chetney not to speak to her of loss when she doesn't have a monopoly on either?

Why is it Bells Hells' job to endlessly accomodate Laudna and why are so many people suddenly talking about Bells Hells as an abstract 7-headed entity that didn't deal with Laudna's problems when those same people (if they were around at the time of the gnarlrock airing, and many of them weren't) were like "NO THEY SHOULD MAKE UP AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND IMOGEN IS A BITCH BECAUSE LAUDNA DIDN'T MEAN IT." Why wasn't it an issue for them when Laudna's ranting about her time in Issylra and how hard it was got shut down by Imogen kissing her because that's why it didn't stay in the spotlight. Why wasn't it an issue for them when Imogen said "if you need her, that's my answer"? Why is it Orym or "Bells Hells" in the abstract who never spent time on Laudna's trauma after months if not years of throwing a fit any time someone (often me) (not always though) pointed out how much Imogen and Laudna were shoving under the rug and not dealing with? What does it say that you can't even expect Laudna's partner to be the one supporting her through this- it has to be Orym? Why doesn't Laudna have any responsibility here? At minimum she could have spoken up about the sword at at least two if not three junctures and she didn't.

There's a lot of things I hold in contempt, and after the obvious things like bigotry, two I really detest are hypocrisy and dereliction of responsibility. It's been extremely telling with both the D20 and CR discourse that people do not like seeing the story and the fandom say "hey actually you need to take responsibility for your actions, you only get redemption if you work for it, and if you leave a room hoping someone will follow you without saying that's what you want? Don't be surprised if no one does." The reason everyone was preparing to stop Laudna was because she was, in every action and decision, showing herself to be a person in need of being stopped. Can you describe this perfect balance of gentleness in which she's never pushed too hard but she does talk about her trauma and work through it and in doing so leaves Delilah? Have you demanded any other member of Bells Hells be granted that same gentleness and patience and kindness or do you think Orym should get over his grief because it's inconvenient to your arguments.

Just as the Rat Grinders show the narrative saying "being an entitled, resentful, jealous person who hurts others from jealousy makes you an easy tool to be manipulated into cruelty and you need to deal with that," I think Laudna shows the narrative (and certainly the fandom) saying "you do have an obligation to deal with your trauma, especially if it causes you to hurt others, and you can ask for help but you can't just sit on your ass waiting for someone else to initiate the process for you" as well as "if you do hurt people because of your trauma they may be angry with you, this may shape how they see you, and they are justified in that because you hurt them" and I think people in both fandoms hate being told that because I think a lot of the people sparking the discourse really do think that you can shield yourself from criticism over your hurtful actions by claiming trauma or neurodivergence or mental illness or whatever and it's like, no, you do still suck, you just also had sucky things happen to you as well.

[isagrimorie]

[initial reactions] Critical Role C3x65

(This took a while to do because the first one I wrote vanished when I hit 'undo' to undo one action and it erased everything).

SO. Many things happened!

Out of the gate, Laudna aired her frustration about how Team Wildemount seemed to have had a better time than their team. And everything FCG, Imogen, and Fearne said just made things worse.

Until Laudna let out the 'And your new best friend' thing with Imogen and Frida. Imogen looked so bewildered, her 'excuse me???'

Ashton remains the heart of the group, I love that Ashton missed Chetney and his shenanigans (even though Laudna looked like she was a second away from throttling him). And I'm glad they were able to talk to FCG to calm down a little. FCG was working on my final nerve when they internalized Laudna's frustrations and made it all about them. It feels like Ashton had an epiphany and realization after seeing Laudna's breakdown, it was a wake-up call. Also for them, Bells Hells is:

We also get to learn more about Ashton's backstory and maybe they didn't pursue the direct Hishari line but maybe they can pursue that question in Zephra.

I love the whole thing with the Duskmaven. I love the vision and the realization that Vax is still suffering in that Orb.

The vision the Matron of Ravens gave to Orym, Fearne, and Chetney was fantastic. Matt���s description was so evocative. And then the doors slamming except instead of doors its the white mask of the Matron. She’s in mourning.

I continue to adore the differing views about gods, I love that both Ashton and Laudna’s view is— they don’t need to worship the gods to save them and the world. And after everything Ashton went through, maybe it’s the gods turn to reach for him, and that for Laudna, just like with FRIDA, her faith belongs with the people she’s with.

Let’s talk about Fearne’s ‘I won’t lose anyone else’? Because she’s not as vocal about it. But she’s equally as traumatized losing people but also she might not be possessive of her sexual and romantic partners but friends? Fearne is possessive of. Orym is her best friend!

I also love that Chetney had to deal with the consequences of his actions. He forgot about it but Matt didn’t!

Fearne and FCG are scrying for Ludinus and Liliana and find… that they’re both on the Rudius moon!

Even Ira is on the moon! So. I feel like the end game for this is Bells Hells going to the moon, on a race against time to stop Ludinus for doing his final thing to free Predathos (who will then eat him). I don’t know why Lililana is still following Ludinus since it’s obvious his promises were bunk, but I suppose sunk cost fallacy is a thing.

Also as Aabria said: “Are we all dancing around the fact y’all need to go to the moon?” Because she was RIGHT! They were dancing around the fact they’re all going to have to go to the moon! Thus kickstarting Exandria’s Space Race!

And now to the MAIN THING.

I love actually, that this whole thing with them: the misunderstanding, the kiss all happened with Imogen’s ability to passively mind read shut off. I also love that it all comes in the heels of Laudna airing out her frustrations. Because this time Imogen has to really talk to Laudna, she can’t just get the mental vibe from her. They have to talk. IMO this is the best thing that’s ever happened to both of them, I think they both relied on the fact that Imogen can just ‘hear’ Laudna’s thoughts.

Laudna never minded that Imogen can hear Laudna’s thoughts. But I love that Imogen not hearing Laudna’s thoughts at first pass is actually good for them. Because now Imogen has to learn how to communicate with Laudna through words and sometimes she’s off the mark — the first part where almost everything Imogen said just upset Laudna, to Imogen’s tentative: “Can I kiss you? Because I’m not sure anymore.”

Also, ‘Can I kiss you?’ both did and didn’t come out of nowhere this is a direct continuation of Laudna and Imogen’s conversation the eve of the Solstice. It all started with:

IMOGEN: I don’t know, since you came back, I’ve been almost scared to say anything. [a beat] LAUDNA: Say what? And Imogen did confess to Laudna but Laudna didn’t get it! And then the next second, they were separated from each other.

I can imagine Imogen thinking the next time she gets to see Laudna again she’s not going to chicken out and then Laudna misinterpreting her friendship with FRIDA seems to have resolved Imogen further. Her bewildered: “Excuse me???” was everything.

And then there’s Laudna’s everything, her stress and her breakdown, and fear that her worst self is her only self when it’s the furthest from the truth. Imogen would follow Laudna into the dark because she also feels the calls of temptation. She used to hate her powers but she’s accepted her powers and learned to love it because without her powers she would never have met Laudna.

But also, Laudna being in her Regency Romance era (to coincide with Laura’s ‘Pride and Prejudice’ era) they are so compatible with that Regency Romance with a large serving of Gothic romance.

I’m so intrigued at how both Laudna and Imogen are keeping their change of status from best friends to dating to themselves but it also makes sense they want to figure this thing they have with each other away from other people’s input and feelings.

I also can’t wait for Laudna’s new outfit and Pate backpack home.

And now they're in Zephra, off to one of the most beautiful places in Exandria when everything's on the edge of tipping into something. I can't wait to watch the next episode!

Also, it took awhile but I finally got to finish this not so initial reactions. Thanks, tumblr for the delay!

[theedeadpixel]

C3 EP59 Thoughts and Spoilers

Under the cut for obvious spoilers...

Team AOL is now confirmed to be Team Issylra, so I was right

Deni$e is my favorite of the guests, and even though I think it’s dumb, her outing her real name because she misheard someone else seems totally on brand.

I’ve never seen Utkarsh before but if he is an avid DnD player like I’ve heard he does an excellent job acting like he has never played before

I’ve heard he is likely method acting, as Bor’Dor would have no idea what he’s doing given he got his magical abilities literal hours before we met him (allegedly)

Prism is precious, and the first time I’ve ever seen a Scribes Wizard played before, which makes me excited to see what she can do.

Ashton, Orym, and Laudna are all depressed and that makes me feel things it shouldn’t.

Laudna, the one who doesn’t let anything get her down because the worst thing to happen to her has already happened, is heavily compartmentalizing and states that if she talks too much she’s scared she’ll just start crying.

Ashton who was glad they were doing something good and thought they did enough now has to come to grips with the fact that they weren’t enough after Bell’s Hells had done so much to build them up over the past several months and has gone back to their old world view after finally thinking they can make a difference

Orym, who has never let his size bother him, states that he feels small, when never before has he thought of himself as anything less than himself.

Now for my theories...

Bor’ Dor is hiding something and isn’t quite what he seems. I don’t know what it is but he almost seems a little too clueless.

Deni$e is a Totem Barbarian 5/Thief Rogue 4. The thief seems self explanatory but the totem stuff is pure speculation. Given her combat actions, we can safely eliminate most options, including Ancestral, Zealot, Storm, Wild Magic, and Beast, leaving Battlerager, Berserker, and Totem Warrior. Totem is just a hunch but what I believe she’ll more than likely be, and she has to have at least 5 levels to take two attacks, so we know that’s the minimum barbarian level she can have.

Prism will end up carrying the party through an encounter later, pure Wizard queen shit, that’s all I got.

Orym is finally breaking down and I hate that but at the same time he needs feel his emotions, trying to stay strong just isn’t helping at this point and he needs to just let himself finally cry, or flip the fuck out, or something.

Ashton and Laudna will feel bad when they find out what was happening while they were off trying to destroy a power source during the solstice and ending up being no help. This will only further their depression, compartmentalization, and self-worth issues as a result. One will have to be the rock for the other but neither of them are going to be emotionally available enough to do so (Ashton is trying, but he very clearly has his own shit going on that, like Orym, he’s just trying to stay strong through.)