#moderate Muslime

[heplev]

„Moderat“ oder „radikal“?

Würde der echte Islam bitte aufstehen? Raymond Ibrahim, FrontPage Mag, 12. Januar 2023 Muslime bestehen weiter darauf, dass einer Lieblings-Zweiteilungen des Westens – radikaler bzw. moderater Islam – eine Mär ist. Ein muslimischer Kleriker widmete vor kurzem eine ganze Predigt diesem Punkt. Scheik Yunus Kathradas, ein kanadischer Imam, lud sie am 16. Oktober 2022 auf YouTube hoch; in ihr…

[ilmtest]

The Balanced Path

al-Imām al-Bukhārī may Allah have mercy on him reported (in his Ṣaḥīḥ) #5036: قال الإمام البخاري رحمه الله (ج 9ص 104) ح��يث (5036): Anas (may Allah be pleased with him) reported: حدثنا سعيد بن أبي مريم أخبرنا محمد بن جعفر أخبرنا حميد بن أبي حميد أنه سمع أنس بن مالك رضي الله عنه يقول: Three people came to the houses of the Prophet's ﷺ wives to ask about the ʿibādah (ie: worship) of the Prophet ﷺ. جاء ثلاثة رهط إلى بيوت أزواج النبي صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم يسألون عن عبادة النبي صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم When they were told, it was as if they thought it little, فلما أخبروا كأنهم تقالوها، And said: “We are nowhere near the status of the Prophet ﷺ! فقالوا: وأين نحن من النبي صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم He has been forgiven his past and future wrong actions.“ قد غفر الله له ماتقدم من ذنبه وما تأخر؟ Consequently, one of them said, ”I will pray all night every night.“ قال أحدهم: أما أنا فأصلي الليل أبداً، Another said, ”I will fast all the time and not break the fast.“ وقال آخر: أنا أصوم الدهر ولا أفطر، The other said, ”I will withdraw from women and never marry.“ وقال آخر: أنا أعتزل النساء فلا أتزوج أبداً، Later, the Messenger of Allah ﷺ came to them and said, ”Are you the ones who said such-and-such?“ فجاء رسول الله صلى الله عليه وعلى آله وسلم فقال: «أنتم الذين قلتم كذا وكذا By Allah, from all of you, I am the one with the most fear and awareness of Allah, أما والله إني لأخشاكم لله وأتقاكم له but I fast and break the fast, لكني أصوم وأفطر I sleep and I marry women. وأرقد وأتزوج النساء Whoever disdains my method is not with me (ie: upon my path).” فمن رغب عن سنتي فليس مني». Reported by Muslim 2/1020. أخرجه مسلم (ج 2ص 1020). Muqbil b. Hādī al-Wādiʿī, Nashr al-Saḥīfah fi ḏikr ʿl-Ṣaḥīḥ min aqwāl Aʿimmah ʿl-Jarḥ wa ʿl-Taʿdil fī Abī Ḥanīfah 1/38 مقبل بن هادي الوادعي، نشر الصحيفة في ذكر الصحيح من أقوال أئمة الجرح والتعديل في أبي حنيفة ١/٣٨ https://shamela.ws/book/96868/39 @ilmtest [https://t.me/ilmtest]

[royalberryriku]

I'm still pretty sick with the flu and I'm still figuring out how to move past being frozen with hyperempathy so I'll try to be brief with this. But I want to touch on a thing I've been thinking about pretty much this entire past year.

In the last decade, or my whole upbringing and childhood as well to be honest, I saw a horrific amount of dehumanisation of Arab culture, language and idenity. All of it was associated with the Taliban, ISIS, war and terrorism to the point most young people would assume that and be suspicious when they'd see a mosque, hijab, brown skin, arabic written somewhere or any display of Arab culture. Like, no, the west has always been violently racist and you all aren't immune to that upbringing of assuming anything written in arabic to be ISIS propaganda, anything to do with Muslim holidays being seen as oppressive and bad or homophobic; a reason for suspicion. We've all been brought up with that shit.

I now want us to think about that upbringing with Jews today and how the antisemetism ingrained in the west actually defines Israel in ways much like how Islamophobia defines the Taliban or ISIS. We KNOW they aren't the same as being Muslim or being Jewish, but that doesn't stop us making associations and assumptions. It doesn't suddenly make demonizing Jews in the same way Arabs have been dehumanised okay. Both are people that deserve love, respect and protection from hate. Political Zionism, Mossad and Modern Israel are western inventions that aren't Jewish at all, just as much as ISIS and the Taliban are western inventions that aren't Arab or Muslim. They were created by western powers for western interests (and hell, even if they weren't that wouldn't justify shit) and should never be used as a reason to automatically suspect our Muslim, Jewish and Arab siblings. These are groups that's exist irrespective of this and require our respect all the same.

I'm staunchly antifascist, pro/ part of the Intifada and for a one state solution with a free Palestine that includes all and respects all equally. Doing that means, fundamentally, that we can't use the weapons and tactics of the western colonial entities; of hate, of demonising an entire culture, language and people. We have to be better.

Just as we have to be against the Bush administration's dehumanisation of Arabs and Muslims, and their targetting of the entire race, various cultures, religion and language, we have to actually put in work to not let ourselves be taken in by western antisemetism that is deeply ingrained within our society as well. There are many stigmas in western society around Jews, and we cannot let it be suddenly exempt from scrutiny because we decide one is okay while the other is not. Both are equally bad, if not good indicators that these same people likely have anti Arab and anti Muslim beliefs internalised as well. They often go hand on hand from what I've seen of liberal racists who have said "I'm not racist" then proceeded to say they think Muslims are all homophobic and that all religions are bad because "Muslims created ISIS" without realising the horrific racism in that. It's these same people who often say "all Jews are responsible and must stand up against Israel or they're actually Zionists". It's the same logic and it always comes back to a general internalisation of racism. That is something we, as leftists, must fight against.

Like, the same people who now say "I have to check and make sure the Jews I know aren't Zionists" are also the same people who have said "I think Arab Americans deserve to see Gaza get flattened because they didn't vote blue". Like it's the same old racist shit and the same post Bush suspicion based on "all Muslims and Arabs are ISIS right?" It's the same shit, like modern Israel, ISIS, (and I'd also include Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc.) and the Taliban are all entities created/ taken control of by the west and then used by the west to expand their own access to resources. It's the US just expanded so if anything y'all should be way more inherently suspicious of white Americans being the CIA in disguise than Jews all being Mossad and Muslims all being ISIS members. Like they are different things, Zionists aren't Jews and vice versa. Basically, just don't assume shit and listen to antizionist Jews when they call you out on antisemetism. The west has deeply ingrained anrisemetic roots and you all still have to unlearn that shit if you really want a free Palestine and a successful Intifada (both in Palestine and, I hope, for successful land back movements in other western colonised nations).

If you see a Jew celebrating their holidays without mentioning Palestine or condemning Israel? Shut up and let them celebrate. If you see a Muslim celebrating their holidays without condemning ISIS or Afghanistan and Iran's treatment of women? Shut up and let them celebrate. Entire groups of people shouldn't be expected to be held to account and put in all the work of unraveling western colonialism, all because you're already suspicious of anyone who isn't white, atheist or just live differently to you. Respect people and their culture, unlearn western racist imperialist propaganda.

Unlearn that shit and learn to unite under one banner of antifascist resistance that sees all as equal.

[thedreadvampy]

sorry I'm on one now. Narnia is one of my Big Rant triggers.

but like. I would be lying if I said I didn't love Narnia

(everything except the Horse and His Boy, which a) even as a tiny kid made me uncomfortable with how fucking racist it is (literally there is ONE. ONE. character of colour who isn't evil, selfish, greedy and violent. even when you're 5 and white and don't really understand racism it's like. sorry there are just no nice people in this whole country? and every Narnian is lovely?) and b) is just fucking DULL partly bc of the 2 dimensional racist caricatures populating the world)

but I can't pretend for a second that it isn't specifically built around a Christian theology that's explicitly racist, hierarchical, supremacist, colonialist and The Bits I Like Least Of Anglicanism

and my FAVOURITE books in the series (except the Silver Chair which tbh is WAY less theological and way more mythology-nerd) are the first and last, which are by far the most explicitly Christian. even more so than TLTWATW.

and I can just about stand by the Magician's Nephew bc it's mostly just a mix of Christian creation myth and CS Lewis's sci fi interests in the esoteric and multiverses and it honestly feels fine. but my all time favourite most iconic Narnia book is The Last Battle and I just. cannot. justify it for a second from a political or philosophical standpoint.

it's got it all bc it's the book where Lewis is like ok hold up let me lay out explicitly what my theology is. and what he thinks it's important to say is:

Almost all Muslims are bad and evil

They worship Satan by doing Bad Evil Deeds to please him

There are a couple of Good Muslims who do good deeds. they need to be brought to the light, understand that the voice calling them to do good deeds is the Christian god, and they too can achieve the kingdom of heaven

Some people will use Christianity as a mask for exploitation and mistreatment. They are bad and their faith is false (ok fine)

...and they're doing that because they're CONSPIRING WITH THE EVIL MUSLIMS TO OPPRESS GOOD CHRISTIANS

...and THAT'S THE ONLY REASON ANYONE WOULD TELL YOU THAT GOD AND ALLAH ARE DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THE SAME GOD. because they're either conning you or because they've been misled and can't really think for themselves.

DID I MENTION. THAT MUSLIMS ARE EVIL AND TRYING TO BRING DOWN CHRISTIANS.

and other than the GOD AREN'T MUSLIMS JUST THE WORST of it all, he also goes back over to more fully explain several points he's made throughout the series, such as:

white Christian public school kids are the god ordained leaders of the world and attempts to think otherwise are heretical

god places people where they need to be to serve his purpose

free will is largely an illusion - your only choice is faith or chaos, and as a godly person your actions are preordained

the problem is though. he's kind of a really good character writer? and in The Last Battle he pulls out most of his best classics (hi Reepicheep! hi Frank! hi Jill!) and gives us a whole wealth of really fun new characters (Tirian and Jewel, Emeth, Puzzle, Shift, Griffle and Ginger are all just SO FUN) and it's such a solid adventure. for me it's hands down the most FUN Narnia to read and an effective and affecting end to the series.

but like. god its unjustifiably fucked philosophy is baked into every single character and event. it's so hard to ignore. it's my favourite book in the series. it's the book that makes me angriest. it's everything right with Narnia and everything wrong with Narnia. I like it cause it asks me to engage critically with Lewis' philosophy and I hate it cause it requires me to engage critically with Lewis' philosophy.

in conclusion, Narnia is a land of contrasts. also occasionally brownface.

[religion-is-a-mental-illness]

[severalowls]

Oh my GOD was there ANOTHER bit of ao3 site drama which resulted in a rabidly racist frenzy with no basis?

[i-am-keith]

Is it just me, or do people on Bumble/Hinge/whatever app that put "Moderate" and "Christian" give a vibe of being homophobic?

[papirouge]

What did you think about those Swedes burning the quran? I feel like this back and forth between the west and Islam is tiring. Like why live there if the rules aren’t compatible with your values? I don’t live in Sweden but my neighbor got arrested because he was angry about happened there and threatened to blow out our apartment building in protest

Wasn't it a Turkish man who burned the Coran?

But anyway: not my monkey, not my circus🎪🐒

[mainfaggot]

People treat me so weirdly just because i don't drink it's like.. you're the freak here not me bc i can respect your decisions but you can't even be civil enough to respect mine..

[whimsycore]

Still thinking abt not knowing my skirt had a slit in it so I wore pants underneath and my mom made a joke to her friend who was taking a picture of me like “remember she’s Muslim….very modest” like because the woman wanted me to show off the slit (???) Why would you say that are YOU not Muslim ? How can you say that to someone you forced into full hijab while not wearing it your goddamn self.

[traegorn]

while i completely agree with your assessment of realistically what a trump vs harris presidency will look like, i think the issue me and a lot of other leftists have is that there is no need to tell people (and effectively tell harris) that oh ofc we are gna vote for her despite these issues because trump is THAT bad and if you say you don't want to vote for her because her party is pro-war, pro-genocide, then you are condemning americans to a trump presidency. we know trump is worse! i don't want him to win AT ALL, but why would harris even consider even changing the language she is using (i'm looking at the absolutely stupid speech she was giving in michigan, given the large arab & muslim-american population there and given its a battleground state) if she thinks she is going to win on a not-trump basis? i know who i'm voting for on nov 5th if it comes down to it, but we need the democrats to THINK they are going to lose until the very last minute, we need them to feel like they can't just rely on being the lesser of two evils if we want any chance of a shift on palestine. because they very well might lose, for this exact reason (and i'm speaking again more to the votes of the arab & muslim-american population which is far more demographically meaningful than the votes of leftists) and if that happens, they have no one to blame but themselves.

So I'm going to tell you something important: You don't have the leverage you think you have.

Political campaigns are a machine that's been operating the same way for a long time on the Democratic side. The Republicans may have abandoned a lot of the old ways of doing things, but the Democratic party hasn't. And you've got people running these campaigns who are steeped in the "wisdom" of how you win.

And when a block of voters says they're not going to vote for their candidate, they tend to believe them. So they decide to go court the people who they think will vote for them. That's why you've seen the Harris campaign trying to court moderate Republicans who might be iffy on voting for Trump a third time.

Right now one of the reasons Netanyahu is refusing to commit to a cease fire is because he thinks Trump can win. If Trump wins, he has no reason to ever agree to one. One of the reasons he thinks Trump can win is because the polling is so close.

If you want to know why they've gone to the right recently, it's because they think they've lost the left. And since a lot of those leftists are claiming there's a line in the sand that they don't have the power to appease (because -- again -- they can't get Netanyahu to do shit right now), they're going to go for the centrist Republicans.

Also, there seems to be this weird notion that the only way to move the Democrats is during the election. That's not how you move people. You keep pressuring them during their term and it works. Like Biden is continuing to work on forgiving student debt even though he doesn't have an election ahead of him. Because they know that what he does reflects on the future of the party. Voting doesn't end this game, it's the start of it.

But none of it will matter if Trump wins.

[jessicalprice]

how can you be so controversial and yet so brave

(reposted from Twitter)

Hey so, have I ever told you about the time I was at an interfaith event (my rabbi, who was on the panel, didn't want to be the only Jew there), and there was a panel with representatives of 7 different traditions, from Baha'i to Zoroastrian?

The setup was each panelist got asked the same question by the moderator, had 3 minutes to respond, and then they moved on to the next panelist.

The Christian dude talked for 8 minutes and kept waving off the poor, flustered, terminally polite Unitarian moderator.

The next panelist was a Hindu lady, who just said drily, "I'll try to keep my answer to under a minute so everyone else still has a chance to answer." (I, incidentally, am at a table with I think the only other non-Christian audience members, a handful of Muslims and a Zorastrian.)

So then we get to the audience questions part. No one's asking any questions, so finally I decide to get things rolling, and raise my hand and the very polite moderator comes over and gives me the mic.

I briefly explain Stendahl's concept of "holy envy" and ask what each of theirs is.

(If you're not familiar, Stendahl had 3 tenets for learning about other traditions, and one was leave room for "holy envy," being able to say, I am happy in my tradition and don't desire to convert, but this is something about another tradition that I admire and wish we had.)

The answers were lovely. My rabbi said she admired the Buddhist comfort with silence and wished we could learn to have that spaciousness in our practice. The Hindu said she admired the Jewish and Muslim commitment to social justice & changing, rather than accepting, the status quo.

The Christian dude said he envied that everyone else on the panel had the opportunity to newly accept Jesus.

I shit you not.

Dead silence. The Buddhist and Baha'i panelists are resolutely holding poker faces. The Hindu lady has placed her hands on the table and folded them and seems to be holding them very tightly. Over on the middle eastern end of the table, the rabbi, the imam, and the Zoroastrian lady are all leaning away from the Christian at identical angles with identical expressions of disgust. The terminally polite Unitarian moderator is literally wringing his hands in distress.

A Christian lady at the table next to me, somehow unable to pick up on the emotional currents in the room, sighs happily and says to her fellow church lady, "What a beautiful answer."

anyway I love my rabbi to death and would do anything for her

except attend another interfaith event

[tamamita]

how is isis different from hamas?

Gonna make it easy and comprehensible:

ISIS or DA'ISH is a transnational terror organization consisting of Iraqi Baathists, former Syrian rebels or moderates, recruited fighters from all over the world, former US captives in Iraq, and oppressed and disenfranchised Sunnis. Wahhabi in nature, ISIS subscribes to the literalist tradition of Islam, based on a strict adherence to Tawhid (Islamic monotheism), rejecting the concept of intercession and saint venerations, seeing them as an act of idolatry. Their religious verdicts are based on the literal interpretation of the Qur'an and Sunnah, rejecting metaphorical exegesis. They aim to establish a global caliphate, seeking to eliminate anyone who opposses it regardless of religious or ideological differences. They see their cause as a hastening of various Islamic end time prophecies in their interpretation of Islamic eschatology. Like many Salafis, they reject Taqlid, which is to conform to one of the four schools of thought in Sunni Islam. On top of that, they reject religious innovations (Bid'ah), which is the idea that anything introduced to the religion without any religious basis is heresy. Whether it be practical or theological, they deem any Muslim who engage in Bid'ah to be an apostate or heretic. They are notorious for their intolerance of non-Muslims and application of Takfirism (excommunication) on Muslims, whether Sunni or Shi'a. Christians had to pay the Jizya (poll tax) in their territories, while in other cases, they were murdered, expelled and had their churches destroyed or converted. They have no tolerance for Shi'a Muslims and will kill them on the spot (see: Speicher Massacre), and have often targeted them with IEDs or suicide bombers. Non-Muslims, like the Ezidis or Ahlul Haqq, were often subjected to execution whereas their women and children were either married away, converted or used as sex slaves. DAESH is not interested in national liberation, seeing it as a blasphemous innovation. DAESH does not consider Hamas to be Muslims due to struggle for national liberation which is supported by Iran and various Shi'i proxies.

Hamas is a political and military resistance group that consists of Palestinians. After the failures of the Oslo accord, Hamas broke away from PLO and formed their own political party. They either subscribe to the Shafi'i school of thought or some form of Ikhwani Salafism (Salafism as envisioned by the Muslim Brotherhood). They're a semi-governmental power in Gaza and are responsible for upholding the social and civil institutions, such as hospitals, schools and etc. Hamas' specific aim is localized and seeks to destroy the Zionist entity in order to form a one-state solution under an Islamic emirate or Islamic democracy. Their only enemy is Israel and any of its allies. As of the Hamas charter of 2017, they do not have an intolerance for non-Muslims or people of different religious and ideological comportments, as seen by them holding ties with both Shi'a and Socialist militias, such as Hezbollah and the PFLP/DFLP. Hamas is concerned with the national liberation of Palestine and the Palestinians. Being an entirely localized resistance group, they do not engage in global jihadism like ISIS nor do they carry out attacks internationally.

[herunswithscissors]

This Jewish-Muslim divide is artificial. It is created by Crusader nations.

When the fucking Aristocrats dumped the most traumatized of the Jews they couldn't kill in the Camps onto the already inhabited Palestine which is the Holy Land for 3 world religions, told them it was theirs if they could keep it, and gave them tanks.

Muslim and Jewish neighbours in a Jewish house in Istanbul, 1980s

[booasaur]

I think there are some takeaways here, if we want to learn from this.

First: third-party voters were irrelevant. In no swing state did left-leaning third-party voters add up to enough to push Harris over.

Second: many progressive policies and politicians outperformed Harris.

Third: appealing to Republicans did not work.

It has never worked, in the US or in Europe, we've seen time and again that giving ground to right wing policies only legitimizes them and voters then prefer the original. For example, if you worry about immigration, and both sides are saying it's a problem, who do you trust more to handle it?

Fourth: polls were pretty accurate. There were months, years, really, of debate about polling being broken, which demographics were underrepresented, which were overrepresented, herding, hopes that they were overcorrecting for the last two misses on Trump, but they ended up closer than anybody wanted. Which also means that Biden would have lost by even worse.

Fifth: on the one hand, people should hopefully see this graphic and realize there's no minority to scapegoat:

On the other hand, I'm seeing a lot of people take it as a sign the country has simply shifted to the right in a huge, undeniable way that's depressing and ominous and feels hopeless. After all, Trump will win the popular vote by a lot, the first time a Republican has in decades.

However, this should be taken in conjunction with these numbers:

Now THIS is something that's open to further analysis and that can be worked with.

Why did so many Democrat voters not show up?

Here are some potential reasons for this, the truth most likely being a combination of at least several of them:

She's a Black-Indian woman. There's no denying the racism and misogyny among the US electorate, but given earlier polls where she was leading, I don't think this was the main or certainly only reason.

She was seen as too progressive/leftist. Again, by virtue of our racist, misogynistic electorate and our billionaire-owned media, Harris was seen as too extreme left by a lot of people, not just because of policies, but because inherently, her identity itself is extreme left to them. I personally don't think this was a crucial factor because, again, she had been leading when she was going stronger on the progressive messaging, other progressive policies and politicians outperformed her, and a lot of the people who think she's too extreme are Republicans who'd never vote for her. I just don't think it's a good enough reason for the millions of Democrats who didn't show.

Palestine. There's a coalition of pro-Palestine people, not just Muslims and Arab Americans but leftists and other POC too, but numerically, their vote for third parties made no difference. Did enough shift to Trump or not show up at all? Certainly in Michigan they swung to the right, but would that have made a difference? Did they matter in other less tangible ways, e.g., a lot of the same active progressives who'd have been out campaigning simply voted quietly for Harris and left it at that? How much of a distraction was this for Dems, having to constantly address Gaza as opposed to putting forth their own policies, and did it contribute to the overall perception of them being incompetent and weak and bringing chaos when people were tired of it? I think Palestine did have an effect, but enough to swing it overall...?

Not being progressive enough. A lot of people will point to Palestine and immigration, the decision to campaign with Liz Cheney and Mark Cuban and court Republican moderates, stifling Walz, and various other shifts that abandoned the left for the center and then the left didn't show up while the center went for Republicans as they always do, but the left isn't that large. I think, if this one point is a factor, it's more that it was simply difficult for normal voters to show up when they didn't really know what the candidate stood for, aside from "more of the same" and "not Trump".

Biden. When you have a ton of people unhappy with where the country is going, including their biggest priority, the economy, being tied to an unpopular incumbent was going to be tough, especially when, as a Black-Indian woman, she would be judged as disloyal if she broke too much from him. Nevertheless... People were unhappy with him and his administration.

Ultimately, I think there's a lot to learn and I hope Dems will.

I think we're in for a tough time and we're going to need community and solidarity, not fighting among ourselves.

[former-leftist-jew]

“Jews are willing to give up land for peace.” Bull fucking shit!!! Have you seen what’s happening to the West Bank??? Are you aware of how many Palestinians have lost their homes to Israeli settlers? In settlements that are internationally recognized as illegal!!! This isn’t just an Israeli thing either. Diaspora Jews are being recruited to move to the West Bank but Israeli real estate agents.

“We are NOT willing to bare our necks before the executioner's axe just because Islamists demand it.” But you expect Palestinians to bare their necks for the executioner’s axe because Israel demands it.

Jews are not the fucking victims here. I know Jews have been the victims of a lot of violence throughout history but the situation in Palestine is perhaps the one time in history Jews are the perpetrators.

I see you didn't read or watch a single source I gave to back up my claims, and didn't cite any sources to back up your claims either.

Since you're not going to bother to read, I'll keep it brief:

Are you aware of how many Palestinians have lost their homes to Israeli settlers?

And are you aware of how many Jews were violently driven out of their homes due to Islamic aggression after WWII--mostly in retaliation for Israel being formed?

Are you aware that Jews were living in and around the "West Bank" (historically Judea and Samaria) for centuries before Arab Jordinians invaded and violently expelled all the Jews living there in 1948?

Are you aware that most so-called "illegal settlements in the West Bank" are places where previous Jewish communities were forcibly expelled by Arab armies or militia, and many "Israel? (Or slaughtered, like Jewish community of Hebron in 1929?)

Are you aware that about 2 out of 9 million Israeli citizens are Israeli Arabs--most of whom are descended from Arabs who chose not to leave to make it eas

Meanwhile, most of Israel's current 2.2 million Israeli Arabs are descended from Arabs who chose not and annexed

But you expect Palestinians to bare their necks for the executioner’s axe because Israel demands it.

No, I just want them to stop attacking and trying to kill all Israelis/Jews already.

Like the so-called "moderate" Palestinian Authority's infamous "pay to slay" Martyr Fund, which incentivizes West Bank Arabs to attack and kill Israelis/Jews, since they get more money for every act of violence they commit against "the state of Israel."

Like Hamas firing rockets Israel non-stop after the latter completely withdrew from Gaza and effectively gave them a Palestinian state to run as they please, without Israeli.

Jews are not the fucking victims here. I know Jews have been the victims of a lot of violence throughout history but the situation in Palestine is perhaps the one time in history Jews are the perpetrators.

I want you to stop and think about that for a moment.

What logical sense does that make? "Yeah, Jews were victims of violent persecution throughout history, but THIS TIME all the evil things people say about you and do to you are totally justified!!"

a) Isn't that what antisemites say every time they attack Jews?

b) Have you ever considered that maybe the said extensive history of violent antisemitism might have contributed to Palestinian Arabs being complete hostility towards and refusal to accept a Jewish homeland?

For example: After the Ottoman Empire lost against the European Allies in WWI and ceded territory to the victors, France gained control of "Greater Syria" while Britain gained control of Palestine and Mesopotamia (now Iraq).

About the same time that Britain thought about dividing Mandatory Palestine into an Arab State for the Arab Muslim majority to the east and a Jewish state for the (existing) Jewish minority to the west...

France was ALSO dividing Greater Syria into a larger Arab State for the Sunni Muslim majority, and a smaller state for the Maronite Christian and Druze minority.

Yet, no one ever questions why Arabs grudgingly accepted a state for the Maronite Christian/Druze minority, but threw a raging bitch fit against a homeland for the Jewish minority?

No one ever accuses Maronites/Druze of "stealing Syria land!" but they do constantly accuse Jews of "stealing Palestinian land!"

Speaking of, roughly 3/4 of the original Mandate for Palestine became what is now Jordan, yet no one ever accuses Jordan of "stealing Palestinian land"?

IF NOTHING ELSE, I would like you to AT LEAST read this detailed and well-researched article about historical attitudes and treatments towards Jews in Islamic lands, and how those same attitudes and treatments carried over into the Islamic world's reaction to Jews emigrating to and eventually creating Israel.