#liberal antisemetism

[royalberryriku]

I'm still pretty sick with the flu and I'm still figuring out how to move past being frozen with hyperempathy so I'll try to be brief with this. But I want to touch on a thing I've been thinking about pretty much this entire past year.

In the last decade, or my whole upbringing and childhood as well to be honest, I saw a horrific amount of dehumanisation of Arab culture, language and idenity. All of it was associated with the Taliban, ISIS, war and terrorism to the point most young people would assume that and be suspicious when they'd see a mosque, hijab, brown skin, arabic written somewhere or any display of Arab culture. Like, no, the west has always been violently racist and you all aren't immune to that upbringing of assuming anything written in arabic to be ISIS propaganda, anything to do with Muslim holidays being seen as oppressive and bad or homophobic; a reason for suspicion. We've all been brought up with that shit.

I now want us to think about that upbringing with Jews today and how the antisemetism ingrained in the west actually defines Israel in ways much like how Islamophobia defines the Taliban or ISIS. We KNOW they aren't the same as being Muslim or being Jewish, but that doesn't stop us making associations and assumptions. It doesn't suddenly make demonizing Jews in the same way Arabs have been dehumanised okay. Both are people that deserve love, respect and protection from hate. Political Zionism, Mossad and Modern Israel are western inventions that aren't Jewish at all, just as much as ISIS and the Taliban are western inventions that aren't Arab or Muslim. They were created by western powers for western interests (and hell, even if they weren't that wouldn't justify shit) and should never be used as a reason to automatically suspect our Muslim, Jewish and Arab siblings. These are groups that's exist irrespective of this and require our respect all the same.

I'm staunchly antifascist, pro/ part of the Intifada and for a one state solution with a free Palestine that includes all and respects all equally. Doing that means, fundamentally, that we can't use the weapons and tactics of the western colonial entities; of hate, of demonising an entire culture, language and people. We have to be better.

Just as we have to be against the Bush administration's dehumanisation of Arabs and Muslims, and their targetting of the entire race, various cultures, religion and language, we have to actually put in work to not let ourselves be taken in by western antisemetism that is deeply ingrained within our society as well. There are many stigmas in western society around Jews, and we cannot let it be suddenly exempt from scrutiny because we decide one is okay while the other is not. Both are equally bad, if not good indicators that these same people likely have anti Arab and anti Muslim beliefs internalised as well. They often go hand on hand from what I've seen of liberal racists who have said "I'm not racist" then proceeded to say they think Muslims are all homophobic and that all religions are bad because "Muslims created ISIS" without realising the horrific racism in that. It's these same people who often say "all Jews are responsible and must stand up against Israel or they're actually Zionists". It's the same logic and it always comes back to a general internalisation of racism. That is something we, as leftists, must fight against.

Like, the same people who now say "I have to check and make sure the Jews I know aren't Zionists" are also the same people who have said "I think Arab Americans deserve to see Gaza get flattened because they didn't vote blue". Like it's the same old racist shit and the same post Bush suspicion based on "all Muslims and Arabs are ISIS right?" It's the same shit, like modern Israel, ISIS, (and I'd also include Iran, Egypt, Afghanistan, etc.) and the Taliban are all entities created/ taken control of by the west and then used by the west to expand their own access to resources. It's the US just expanded so if anything y'all should be way more inherently suspicious of white Americans being the CIA in disguise than Jews all being Mossad and Muslims all being ISIS members. Like they are different things, Zionists aren't Jews and vice versa. Basically, just don't assume shit and listen to antizionist Jews when they call you out on antisemetism. The west has deeply ingrained anrisemetic roots and you all still have to unlearn that shit if you really want a free Palestine and a successful Intifada (both in Palestine and, I hope, for successful land back movements in other western colonised nations).

If you see a Jew celebrating their holidays without mentioning Palestine or condemning Israel? Shut up and let them celebrate. If you see a Muslim celebrating their holidays without condemning ISIS or Afghanistan and Iran's treatment of women? Shut up and let them celebrate. Entire groups of people shouldn't be expected to be held to account and put in all the work of unraveling western colonialism, all because you're already suspicious of anyone who isn't white, atheist or just live differently to you. Respect people and their culture, unlearn western racist imperialist propaganda.

Unlearn that shit and learn to unite under one banner of antifascist resistance that sees all as equal.

[sakebytheriver]

...

[everythingsinred]

i absolutely love the tone-deafness of someone who is sitting in a safe suburb in the us complaining that ukrainian refugees have white “privilege” and are having everything “handed to them” i just need these ppl to look inward and try to find their hearts bc they seem to have lost them

[open-sketchbook]

i'm super high so forgive the rambling but

as somebody who grew up catholic and read the bible a bunch because it was words in a book and that's what i did in school, a thing thats fucking insane about christianity is how, like, the foundational text of christianity and christanity-the-institution are basically completely the opposite of one another

original observation i know but this isn't me like, doing a new thing, its reeling over an old well-worn thing because its just so insane

like fundamentally the pitch of christianity, as presented in stories about jesus, is "god made himself into a guy, but not just a guy, a poor working man in roman-occupied judea. this guy went around telling everyone how god is on the side of the poor, the oppressed, and the downtrodden, and against the rich, the occupier, and the authority. to be kind to each other, help each other, even the ones you're supposed to hate, and take solace in the face the day is coming when those in power get what's coming to them."

but then the romans decided christianity was theirs now, and i dont think we like... understand how fucking weird that is. its like if the president of the united states one day got up and declared that actually, its Soviet America now. nothing is changing materially, capital still rules america, but the flags are all red and there's hammers and sickles on everything and people call each other comrade

because that's exactly what it is, right? none of the stuff in the jesus parts of the bible are really, like, conducive to the state religion of a giant conquering slave empire, especially not the part where the romans killed the dude. so like, basically every single thing about christainity is this bizarre smoke and mirrors game with theological wordplay to get around that. the institutions of the church exist to undermine the core stuff that's written in their foundational document through a game of theological telephone.

and again like, i keep coming back to the soviet america example idea thing. because that's exactly what it is, right? imagine its like, a thousand years from now, and in some liberal government culturally descendent from the united states you got an election and the two candidates get up and cite the parts of Capital where Karl Marx is like "alright i'll hand it to the capitalists they sure built a lot of machine tools" to show their devotion to communism, which of course teaches that capitalists should own the means of production

its exactly that! they literally took a religion built around a dude who really fucking hated the roman occupation and talked endlessly about giving to others and sharing with others and helping those unlike yourself and made it into the religion of rome, of taking and keeping and hurting those unlike yourself.

its so fucking wild man (again; i am so goddamn high. to be clear, this isn't a defense of christianity or of issues with jesus as portrayed, like im not saying that actually we should be Original Jesusers, i fully agree that christanity has antisemetism at its core, its more just musing on how wild it is this happened)

[batmanisagatewaydrug]

hey weird question but, with the context that while conspiracy thought in and of itself is just a sort of dangerous logical fallacy, most conspiracy theories have some kind of tie to antisemetism, are there any antisemetic aspects to gaylor theory? i can't think of how but somehow it almost always weasels in there, no matter how innocently silly something seems on the surface.

DEEP SIGH okay it's time to talk about Scooter Braun and his place in the Gaylor conspiracy

I'm not going to recap everything but will instead link you to this US Weekly article (I know, sorry) which is basically a fine summation of events despite being a bit sensationalist in calling a business disagreement between two adults a "feud"

tl;dr for anyone who doesn't want to read all of that (it's not actually that long, I prommy): in 2019 talent manager Scooter Braun acquired Taylor Swift's former record label Big Machine, giving ownership of the masters of her first six albums. Swift objected to this very publicly on the grounds that she wanted ownership over her own work and had repeatedly been denied the opportunity to buy it outright, while also alleging that Braun has been harassing and bullying her for years. ultimately, Swift has remained unable to buy back her work, leading to her steadily re-releasing expanded versions of her first six albums under the "Taylor's Version" headline.

obviously, given my stance against speculating on the personal lives of famous rich people, I'm not particularly interested in debating whether or not there's merit to Swift's accusations against Braun, although given the exploitative nature of the music industry I hardly think her claims are implausible.

regardless of whether or not Braun sucks as a person, it's important to note that he was only very briefly in ownership of Swift's discography: as the linked article above notes, he only owned them for about a year and a half before selling them off in 2020.

despite this, Braun holds what I would consider a rather outsize role in a lot of Gaylor conspiracy theorizing, with many apparently believing that Swift fully intended to come out in 2019 with the release of her seventh album, Lover, but was prevented from coming out by Braun purchasing her discography. I've seen some claim that he actively subjected her to homophobic bullying and others saying that she didn't him to financially benefit from any career boon she might have after coming out (although no one ever seems to have an answer for why she still hasn't come out three years after he sold her discography).

I can't say whether or not the majority of Gaylors, like, know or care that Braun is Jewish, but it feels tragically predictable and yucky that a Jewish man is given such a disproportional share of blame for why Taylor "can't" come out and is made a scapegoat in the ongoing effort to evade reality with "arguments" like this

(source)

... hang on, what's that?

oh man I love when a Jewish family gets put n SCARY ALL CAPS

okay so let's talk about Karlie Kloss and Josh Kushner!

as many of you probably know by this point, Karlie Kloss is the pinnacle of Taylor Swift's platonic gal pals that she gets relentlessly shipped with; I think it's fair to say that "proving" a romantic relationship existed between the two of them is the primary focus of a lot of Gaylorism.

since 2018 Kloss has been married to Josh Kushner, heir of THAT Kushner family. his infamous brother Jared is in fact Donald Trump's son-in-law and probably guilty of, like, a lot of federal crimes. that doesn't inherently make Josh a shithead or anything and he and Kloss both claim more liberal politics, although it should be noted that like a lot of rich liberals Josh does also suck pretty hard. he and Jared own a real estate management company together and were suing their tenants and evicting them during the COVID-19 rent moratorium, so that's kind of everything you need to know about him and Karlie Kloss IMO!!!

having said that, Josh being a bastard landlord doesn't make it appropriate to frame a Jewish family as having some kind of sinister interest in suppressing a queer woman's sexuality or imply that Kloss and Josh Kushner are in some kind of sham marriage. for YEARS Kloss' marriage to Kushner, including her conversion to Judaism and their two living human children, have been dismissed as elaborate turbo-bearding, with some Gaylors going so far as to allege that Kloss and Swift have actually been married for years and Kloss is just having Kushner's children for... reasons unknown... which feels like, you know. a pretty gross dismissal of a Jewish family in favor of pretending two WASPiest WASPs to ever WASP are secretly scissoring.

anyway I certainly don't think it's the most egregious or deliberate anti-semitism that's out there in the conspiracy world but are there some Gaylors blaming The Jews(TM) for forcing poor innocent Taylor to stay in the closet? resounding yes.

[paranormeow7]

I’m probably going to get harassed for this post but. As a Jew who fully and entirely supports Palestinian liberation and is horrified by the carnage in Gaza and the crimes Israel has been committing for decades, please don’t use this terrifying situation as an excuse to share antisemetism. I have seen otherwise well meaning and completely helpful posts peppered with additions and wording such as “lying is in their(Israelis)blood” “Israel’s dominion/control over the West” “All Jews need to be held accountable” calling any Jew they don’t like a Zionist, and other wording that bears similarities to Nazi dogwhistles shared around innocuously by people who I KNOW only want to help. Even by people sharing posts like “Zionism≠Judiasm” and “Israel does not speak for the Jews”, which is true!! They don’t!! But it doesn’t stop a lot of antisemites from sharing posts that are basically just nazi dogma, but replacing “Jews” with “Israelis”. The worst part is, it doesn’t help Palestinians at all. I understand that right now is terribly scary time, and that you’d want to get as much information as you can, help any way you’re able, and that we’re all being bombarded with posts from all kinds of sources, and that in the chaos, we can forget to check if what we’re sharing really has good intentions or not. Because that’s what Nazis do, they feed off of your confusion in an attempt to get you to not look at the fine print and join their cause. The Nazis don’t care about Palestine, they only care about using this horrible tragedy to justify their hatred of Jews. And Jews aren’t Israel!! Israel, in fact, isn’t even on the side of most Jews (look up their rejection of Mizrahi/Sephardi/non Ashkenazi Jews). So yeah idk, random shittily written tangent. Fuck Nazis, free Palestine.

[xclowniex]

An idf solider who posted that pic to a non idf account aka a personal account. Bestie thay isn't pink washing. Individuals cannot pink wash, it happens on a organizational level.

You are just further proving my point. An Israeli queer person can't hold any opinion, whether right or wrong morally, without being screamed at for pink washing.

Then with the whole "using homophobia as an excuse for Genocide" is also again not pink washing as individuals are saying that, not representatives of the Israeli government. The Israeli government pointing out homophobia existing in Gaza is not using it as a reason. The reason for the war always has been to get the hostages back.

Please don't use terms you do not understand the meaning of as, say it with me now, pink washing is done on an organizational level by an organization, individual people cannot pink wash

"Israel is pink washing"

Oh so you think that queer folk in a country can't celebrate their rights?

I thought that queer rights for every person was a good thing?

Or is it only a good thing if you like the country and if you don't like a country, queer people there should suffer?

Cause that doesn't sound very "Queer rights!" to me.

[traegorn]

Do you have any theories on why modern pagans are so obsessed with the idea of Lilith that they refuse to let her go? What is it about this false idea that sucks people in so deeply? It's maddening to see so many people just blatantly spout antisemetic rhetoric because they just REALLY want Lilith specifically for some reason.

Strap in, this is gonna be long.

There's a whole mess of events that kind of lead to this. First we start with the whole "Mesopotamian goddess" which (as I said in that other post) stems from Kramer's translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh in the 1930s and the subsequent misidentification of the Burney relief by Kraeling and Frankfort.

So we get that seed is floating around.

Now dipping out of the nonsense above, some folks in the feminist movement found inspiration in a specific interpretation of Lilith from Jewish folklore. They viewed the story of Adam's first wife as an act of anti-patriarchal feminist defiance. Whether this interpretation is accurate or not I'll leave up to folks way more educated in this than me. But that's where they were coming from.

Then you get the goddess movement starting in the 1970s, which publishes a bunch of stuff -- sometimes poorly researched. And, like, if you're not an academic, I kind of get it? Like you find academic sources talking about the Mesopotamian "Lilith," you don't necessarily have the discernment to look further? And what you get are a bunch of things that will talk about the Jewish Lilith (or at least say they are whether they get things wrong or not), and then just drop in "But she was also actually a Mesopotamian goddess" (without, like, any supposed related mythology) as a justification for the appropriation.

All of this kind of comes to a head in like the 90s and 2000s -- and you get this nonsense published all over the place. And suburban white folks eat it up. And, like, let's be honest -- they probably don't know any Jewish people to correct them. Like I went to high school in a suburb in a major metropolitan area. My graduating class was over 300. As far as I know, there was only one Jewish person in my graduating class.

And so these folks get on the internet. Suburban liberals who think they're progressive, who suddenly get told that they're repeating misinformation about something, and that it might be antisemitic. And they hear this and go "But *I* couldn't be antisemitic! I'm a good person!" -- and rather than listen and adapt, they get defensive.

And they dig in.

And that is, uh, kind of a pattern for a lot of things many white "liberal" suburbanites do when confronted with problematic behavior.

[violottie]

I want to make it clear that anti-zionist Jews are always and have always and will always be welcome on my blog

The voices of anti-zionist Jews are important in our advocacy for Palestine's liberation from the occupation.

Do not discount them. Do not disregard them. Do not attack them.

Our fight against "israel" and zionism is not a fight against Jewish people collectively.

The collective punishment of all Jews for the war crimes of the israeli government, the institution of zionism, zionist israelis and zionist Jews is antisemetic, especially when there are countless anti-zionist Jews equally enraged at the israeli governments occupation and assault on Palestine and the genocide of the Palestinian people.

Antisemetism is not welcome here. If you are using our collective fight for Palestine's liberation to be antisemetic, and harass Jews for simply being Jewish, you are scum and can fuck right off.

[elliescoolerwife]

you know who hates "zionists"? (which is just the current acceptable way of saying "jews" btw.) nazis, islamic fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists. you may think you're on the "right side of history" by siding with Palestine here, but you mustn't be too upset when it turns out you're just on the.. right. when you're out there in your Etsy keffiyehs waving your anti-Israel cardboard signs, remember you're in esteemed company. scarf-wearing proud boys waving swastikas chanting "jews will not replaces us!" were doing the same thing a few years ago. but you go right ahead. stay self-righteous. imagine that it's progressive and liberal and moral to yell slurs at jews on the internet and tell them (in your infinite expertise) what is and isn't antisemitism, where jews do and don't belong, what jews can and can't do, say, feel. keep boycotting jewish businesses and defacing kosher delis. keeping throwing hot soup at wait staff, blocking jewish women from using the bathrooms and knocking yarmulkes off peoples heads. keep smashing up menorahs. and while you're at it keep telling yourself you're on the right side. because you are. the far right.

This has nothing to do with jews you moron.

You’re calling palestinian jews self hating? Jewishvoiceforpeace is a self hating organisation? Israelis that are protesting in israel - self hating? The black jews that are angry that they’re getting sterilized - self hating? The rabbis that are praying everyday for the downfall of israel - self hating?

What do you think a jew is?

If you are a murderer I don’t fucking care about who you are. Just because they’re jewish they don’t get a free card to just create a genocide and say ”we’re jewish and you can’t say anything cuz people who hate jews are on your side”. Are you fucking dense? You are destroying the meaning of antisemitism. Everything is antisemitism nowadays.

Talk about creating problems that don’t exist. While you’re blaming pro-Palestinians for nazis actions, you don’t put any blame on israel for murdering 700.000 people, displacing 2 million, kidnapping, torturing and putting 800.000 behind bars without trial. Many of them children.

But God forbid Menoras are getting destroyed by nazis (not a Palestinian issue) and ZIONIST supporting companies (not jewish) are getting boycotted for sending food and money to the IOF. Okay. Definitely on the same level as the 75 year old genocide happening.

Zionists are an embarassment. Zionism is destroying judaism. Not us. Zionism is making jews look like murderers. Colonizers. Animals. Not us. They are describing themselves as superior and everyone that hates murder and occupation is antisemetic. What does that say about Judaism? Absolutely nothing - but zionist themselves seem to think their God told them to do this.

You are destroying the beautiful religion and destroying the meaning of being Jewish.

NOT IN THEIR NAME.

[former-leftist-jew]

So how do you know they're "lies" if you won't engage with them or cross-reference them with neutral sources?

You remind me of the ultra-conservative Christians who bleat:

-"Harry Potter is Satanist propaganda meant to corrupt our youth by teaching them the Devil's witchcraft! / Universities are woke liberal indoctrination camps!"

-"How do you know? Have you read Harry Potter / been to college?"

-"Of course not! I avoid Satanist/liberal propaganda."

"... Okay, so how do you know what you're talking about if you never actually read the book / visited the place you're talking about?"

Like them, you're confusing willful ignorance with moral superiority.

“Jews are willing to give up land for peace.” Bull fucking shit!!! Have you seen what’s happening to the West Bank??? Are you aware of how many Palestinians have lost their homes to Israeli settlers? In settlements that are internationally recognized as illegal!!! This isn’t just an Israeli thing either. Diaspora Jews are being recruited to move to the West Bank but Israeli real estate agents.

“We are NOT willing to bare our necks before the executioner's axe just because Islamists demand it.” But you expect Palestinians to bare their necks for the executioner’s axe because Israel demands it.

Jews are not the fucking victims here. I know Jews have been the victims of a lot of violence throughout history but the situation in Palestine is perhaps the one time in history Jews are the perpetrators.

I see you didn't read or watch a single source I gave to back up my claims, and didn't cite any sources to back up your claims either.

Since you're not going to bother to read, I'll keep it brief:

Are you aware of how many Palestinians have lost their homes to Israeli settlers?

And are you aware of how many Jews were violently driven out of their homes due to Islamic aggression after WWII--mostly in retaliation for Israel being formed?

Are you aware that Jews were living in and around the "West Bank" (historically Judea and Samaria) for centuries before Arab Jordinians invaded and violently expelled all the Jews living there in 1948?

Are you aware that most so-called "illegal settlements in the West Bank" are places where previous Jewish communities were forcibly expelled by Arab armies or militia, and many "Israel? (Or slaughtered, like Jewish community of Hebron in 1929?)

Are you aware that about 2 out of 9 million Israeli citizens are Israeli Arabs--most of whom are descended from Arabs who chose not to leave to make it eas

Meanwhile, most of Israel's current 2.2 million Israeli Arabs are descended from Arabs who chose not and annexed

But you expect Palestinians to bare their necks for the executioner’s axe because Israel demands it.

No, I just want them to stop attacking and trying to kill all Israelis/Jews already.

Like the so-called "moderate" Palestinian Authority's infamous "pay to slay" Martyr Fund, which incentivizes West Bank Arabs to attack and kill Israelis/Jews, since they get more money for every act of violence they commit against "the state of Israel."

Like Hamas firing rockets Israel non-stop after the latter completely withdrew from Gaza and effectively gave them a Palestinian state to run as they please, without Israeli.

Jews are not the fucking victims here. I know Jews have been the victims of a lot of violence throughout history but the situation in Palestine is perhaps the one time in history Jews are the perpetrators.

I want you to stop and think about that for a moment.

What logical sense does that make? "Yeah, Jews were victims of violent persecution throughout history, but THIS TIME all the evil things people say about you and do to you are totally justified!!"

a) Isn't that what antisemites say every time they attack Jews?

b) Have you ever considered that maybe the said extensive history of violent antisemitism might have contributed to Palestinian Arabs being complete hostility towards and refusal to accept a Jewish homeland?

For example: After the Ottoman Empire lost against the European Allies in WWI and ceded territory to the victors, France gained control of "Greater Syria" while Britain gained control of Palestine and Mesopotamia (now Iraq).

About the same time that Britain thought about dividing Mandatory Palestine into an Arab State for the Arab Muslim majority to the east and a Jewish state for the (existing) Jewish minority to the west...

France was ALSO dividing Greater Syria into a larger Arab State for the Sunni Muslim majority, and a smaller state for the Maronite Christian and Druze minority.

Yet, no one ever questions why Arabs grudgingly accepted a state for the Maronite Christian/Druze minority, but threw a raging bitch fit against a homeland for the Jewish minority?

No one ever accuses Maronites/Druze of "stealing Syria land!" but they do constantly accuse Jews of "stealing Palestinian land!"

Speaking of, roughly 3/4 of the original Mandate for Palestine became what is now Jordan, yet no one ever accuses Jordan of "stealing Palestinian land"?

IF NOTHING ELSE, I would like you to AT LEAST read this detailed and well-researched article about historical attitudes and treatments towards Jews in Islamic lands, and how those same attitudes and treatments carried over into the Islamic world's reaction to Jews emigrating to and eventually creating Israel.

[spacelazarwolf]

Idk man. I’m trans in a conservative area and my life is getting materially worse, I’m kind of wanting to go after anyone who pushed the ideas that got us to this stage, and asking how to do that without marginalizing these people on the basis of a valid identity (being jewish). But bets that you’re in a liberal area not being affected by this shit, bets are that you get off on being some high and mighty tumblr dot com activist instead of caring abt the queer people you pretend to. Good night and thanks for yelling at me to shut up when I asked about how to avoid antisemitism right after you posted about being mad leftists are antiSemetic. Really some uh, good material there

i live in fucking missouri and am losing coverage for my hrt at the end of the month bc my government is trying to make it illegal to be trans ❤️

anyway antisemitic goyim jump in a lake and drown challenge!

[to-dance-beneath-the-diamond-sky]

Hey followed you for some time ago. I want to know your opinion about phrase 'from the river to the sea, palestine will be free'. Do you think that phrase is antisemetic? I read from Palestinian side that it just phrase for liberation. But some Jewish people ssaid that was antisemitic. Thoughts? Thank you.

it’s 1000% not antisemitic and anyone trying to tell you it is is a Zionist (or has been brainwashed by Zionist propaganda, which at this point is honestly pretty much the same thing). Claiming that Palestinian calls for freedom from oppression is somehow antisemitic completely dilutes the meaning of antisemitism, which then opens the door for actual real antisemitism. Don’t listen to Zionist propaganda. Literally nothing in the world is more antisemitic than Zionism.

if the “safety and security” of a society relies on the oppression and deprivation of rights from a whole group of people, then that society is not actually ever going to be safe. Because oppression and the denial of rights will ALWAYS lead to violence on all sides.

Israel is a terrorist state. Full stop. Free Palestine 🇵🇸

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

[knifegrrrl1312]

some people must realize the existence of the country of israel will not protect jewish people, it will not help with antisemitism, its not ""black and white thinking"" to think the country of israel is unnecessary, and nothing more than a fascist dream unfortunately. I think that making all the jewish people go live in israel to escape antisemitism is kinda antisemetic because i know for a FACT all these politicians are drooling at the mouth sending jewish people to israel so they aren't in their country- its fucking antisemitism im sorry, other people support israel for their OWN personal prejudices and thats not protecting jewish people, it never will.

The kingdom of Israel was something that existed in ancient history, as far as i'm aware it exists now to colonize Palestine, to excuse genocide, and the country of israel has done nothing but push actual antisemitism often for their own needs. People will say they support Palestine and Landback and the liberation of Palestine but you also say that Israel as a country is a necessity for jewish people??? and you think you "support" jewish people?? like ur just a fucking liar then :/ jewish people can live in palestine, alongside palestinians, without colonizing or genociding them. (no im not talking ab a two state solution 🙄)

like are you people even interested in fighting antisemitism? are you really interested in figting systemic antisemitism? Do you Really care about jewish people or do you just not want to look like a antisemite. Like fuck don't say from the river to the sea if you think that israel is a 'necessity' for jewish people when its not.

[royalberryriku]

Also I'm hyper focused on the history again so I want to do a brief rundown of a few things I've looked into as someone who's just been generally invested in the origins of Zionism. Removed from Israel, Palestine and the general horror of it all, I've found the history itself utterly fascinating from a historic standpoint.

See, the hope to return is an important Jewish thing that is genuinely a part of Jewish culture worldwide. However, this doesn't explicitly mean it's a desire for ownership, just to go back to the land and return to old practices in the place they view as holy and as "home". This isn't wrong, but it is different to Zionism when you consider what Zionism has become over the course of, say, a century and a half post the French Revolution. To be more precise, since the creation of a political ideology centred on western nationalism and socialism. The two are very distinct, but at the turn of this specific event in history, the two became conflated and thus Zionism as we know it came into being. It's why, today, Jews who are anti-Zionist are seen as "Self Hating", because of this conflation despite the strong differences in both origins and historical contexts. Obviously, this will all be me simplifying and paraphrasing, and just generally explaining as briefly as I can to the best of my ability and the knowledge I've acquired thus far. My knowledge isn't perfect, but it is something I've been studying for long enough to create a sort of internal timeline while understanding how Zionism formed.

So, returning to the French Revolution. For the first time, Jews were granted the same rights and citizenship of other groups in France, meaning that they could live however they like, including in traditionally "non Jewish" ways. This was an amazing step forward for human rights and equality, but with the merging of two cultures, sometimes you get strange hybrid subcultures, one being the introduction of socialism and nationalism into the Jewish sense of the hope for return. Mix that with different perspectives of how that should be done and different reasons why one would want to achieve it, you'll evidently get something fairly messy. Even so, it became a common held belief for many socialists, (arguably) this included Karl Marx himself and many others who saw Zionism as a fellow socialist movement and a potential usage to help with the then "Jewish Question" of Europe. Marx himself was said to have been Jewish, yet seemed reluctant to associate with the label. From the beginning, I would argue there is a considerable overlap in anti religious socialism and the socialist nationalism of Zionism, though that in and of itself would require further study. For now, it is something I have been considering due to how much overlap I have observed over such an extended history of the two interwoven movements.

For many Jewish communities, there wasn't really a linear type of Zionism that everyone agreed on. Not until around 1897 when Theodore Hertzl created a more unified ideology of Zionism and propelled the ideology forward. In Hertzl's vision, assimilation and the concept of a homeland in a westernised ownership sense of the word became more mainstream. It wasn't as widely accepted as nowadays, but it was something that became very popular amongst European Jews and, to note in particular, the European Jews that immigrated to historic Palestine. Before, during and after World War I.

As a sort of side note/ tangent (since I find it really interesting, but it isn't exactly directly related to Zionism per se), a European-Ottoman Jew created the beginnings of Modern Hebrew from Ancient Hebrew and Ottoman Arabic. Ancient Hebrew is somewhat like Latin in that it had become a dead language that lacked an ability to be spoken. Yiddish, a compensation of ancient Hebrew with modern European languages, became the norm in Europe, while modern Hebrew (what would later become Israeli Hebrew) originated from Arabic in order to be spoken and ancient Hebrew in terms of base words and structure that could be utilised. There were other forms of Hebrew as well iirc, but these two became the most prominent. I still need to understand the potential relations or there lack of when it comes to ancient Berber (Amazigh), Armenian and Assyrian, I do know that Aramaic specifically was widely spoken alongside Greek. Hebrew was a written language more used by the wealthy and upper class, as I understand it. Which is quite interesting when you consider the different languages used, the immigration in a biblical context, etc. but that's a tangent for another time.

Back onto Zionism, Palestine and generally just the history of how it all developed into what it is. In the aftermath of the defeat of the Ottoman Turks, Europe created the British Balfour Declaration in order to come to a sort of agreement amongst European Zionists and the British government. However, there is much controversy on if this was to appease the Jews, or to simply get rid of them and create a place to "better manage and control" the Jews. This is particularly pushed due to the rising antisemetism in Europe, particularly within the government itself at the time. It had no respect or love for Jews and likely sought a way to "get rid" of them through mass immigration. Again, this is more theoretical and contemplative of the potential reasoning. I personally see the logic, but I wouldn't say it's "a historical fact" rooted in concrete events. Basically, there's a lot of evidence, but I won't claim it as fact.

In the post Ottoman British Mandate of Palestine, we begin to see a strong push from Britian to control Palestine and it's affairs (irrespective of Arab or Jewish prioritisation iirc). It created much tension in the region between native populations of Arabs and Jews to any Europeans and Britons who immigrated there. To the local diaspora, they were seen as invaders and a potential avenue for the Mandate to further wrest more power over local resources and to limit access to the land and their own practices. A fear of colonisation, more so than any fear of religion, began to fester in the British Mandate of Palestine. However, irrespective of the native Jewish population, the European Jewish immigrants were seen in a different light to their indigenous counterparts. Namely, they were seen as European settlers rather than simply just Jews. That isn't to say there were many different perspectives born from this and potential antisemetism, but the main cause was indisputably the context of a foreign entity resting control of the area and seeing immigrants of said entity as potential dangers. This would accumulate and continue to boil over until the Arab Revolt, when tensions flared even more out of the rejection of European immigration and the desire for assimilation from European Jews in the midst of British oppression and colonialism. The mixture was violent and something that, in my view, was a sad inevitability considering the pretext of the British Mandate Itself. Had Palestine been self-governing, while still having many issues, I believe the tensions would never have been so high had it not been for the control the British government sought at the time; those sparks would exist, but the fuel added created an explosive environment that was bound to erupt at any moment.

In light of such tension and violence amongst the different groups involved, Jewish resistance forces were born, or in other words, European Jewish resistances more specifically or "terrorists" in the eyes of the Britons, certain indigenous Jews (specially anti Zionist groups that formed at the time) and Arabs alike. Internationally they were also legally recognised as the terrorist organisations; Haganah (which intersected with the Histadrut, a socialist nationalist union to create and preserve immigrant Jewish settlements), Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang. These three would eventually merge and create the basis for Israel's governmental systems and agencies, as well as it's military.

The 1920s-1940s, if not before and after as well, saw a great deal of hardship and violence, against both Arabs and towards Jews who did not conform to the Zionist movement in Palestine. Namely, the bombing of the King David Hotel which was counted as one of the reasons for the later UN resolution to create a state of Israel in order to prevent further violence (this didn't work very well evidently), and the assassination of Jacob Israël de Haan, a Jewish antizionist. That isn't to say they didn't protect Jewish settlements, they did and prioritised Jewish sovereignty. However, this was done with indiscriminate violence towards Jews and Arabs alike who expressed any dissemination or push against said settlements and Zionist views. These were sparks that were ignited from the history of western colonialism irrespective of Jewish immigration, but also evidently a new issue arose from this of westernised Zionism using colonialist methodology and ideologies of nationalism, borders and ownership to further flare preexisting suspicions towards European settlers. Zionism created a further distaste for Jewish immigration as a result of all these factors merging into one larger issue.

Meanwhile, back in Europe, antisemetism was on the rise which saw further immigration to Palestine, until the British Mandate began to reject refugees, just as Australia, the USA, UK, Canada and New Zealand, amongst many others, began to ban Jewish refugees from entering the country. Meanwhile Nazi Germany supported Zionist efforts in Palestine due to the potential "solution" of expelling Jews from Nazi Germany completely via Palestine. The Haavara Agreement also came into effect from 1933 to 1939, another example of collaboration between Zionist entities and the Nazi party owning to the shared belief in a Jewish Palestine and a "Jew-free" Europe. Though there are other factors as well, many of which I am still researching myself, it is clear that Zionism shared much of the end goals of (early) Nazism when it came to mass immigration, as well as Nazism in general when it came to socialist nationalism. The history of socialism and Zionism itself is a long one of comradery, one I would compare almost to a parental ideology and it's subgroup, owing to the fact political Zionism originated from socialism and the French Revolution. What's more was the emphasis of nationalism and ethnic essentialism in the two ideologies, which further created a unified solidarity between Nazis and Zionists in Europe before, and even during the Holocaust. It also just be understood that Zionists themselves were not necessarily Jewish and didn't necessarily have the interests of Jews in mind, rather, the interest of a Jewish Palestine and a solid socialist nationalist movement within Palestine.

Overall, it can be very clearly seen throughout history that Zionism, as a political entity and movement, is one with political motivations rather than purely cultural or religious. It cannot be claimed that it is merely "a desire for return" when compared to the history, unless one would ignore this history and claim there were two distinct "Zionisms" at play; the Zionist Movement (the socialist nationalist ideology) and the Zionist Sentiment (the Jewish cultural ideal). However, due to the harm calling both Zionism has caused in relation to the evident increase in antisemetism from those fearing and/ or rejecting the political movement, who then conflate the two different ideologies, I would confidently say that referring to the Jewish right to return ought to be considered separate. The history, owing to its violence and severity, as well as the antisemetism interwoven into the Zionist political movement, would create more issues for the Jewish people rather than assist them. This is my own opinion here, of course, but the above has indeed contributed to such a conclusion. It is based on historical evidence that has more or less seemed consistent in its overarching intention to push socialist nationalism, rather than purely a home for the Jews. I would even go as far as to claim that Zionism would continue to exist and prosper without the Jewish people, it would merely seek another group to explain the expansion of socialist nationalism.

Anyway, those are my thoughts so far and, of course, I'm still looking into this so take this all with a grain of salt. I also need to look further into the Russian side of things and more into the Zionism in Russia. Either way, better to look into these events in history yourselves and expand your own knowledge of these events. These are just my own observational insights and conclusions thus far.

If there's one thing I've respectively noticed from Zionists and defenders of Israeli war crimes, it's that every source, argument and potential avenue to explore each explanation is riddled with cherry picking, moving the goalposts and mental gymnastics to explain why their conclusions, which typically are barely even related to the sources they use, somehow overshadow literal reality and what we see with our own eyes.

While scrolling, one example I came across was the repetitive misrepresentation of BLM, antifa and quotes from Martin Luther King Jr, as well as statistics, scholarly journal articles and government website information. These are all good sources, yet every single time they're mangled completely until the only possible "interpretation" of any of them is "well Israel is right to defend itself after shorting rockets beforehand because the retaliation was brutal and all Arabs are bad by default therefore". As if any of these sources are even about individual exceptions of Israel versus hatred towards Arabs.

I think what I find most absurd, as someone in the middle of their own studies, is how every bit of critical thinking and logic goes out the window as they do every single thing possible to do what professors worldwide say NOT to do when evaluating sources. It's like watching a race to see who can tangle and misconstrue scientific information to fit their world view the fastest. Then said people say "um actually I studied at university before so it's actually not wrong that I'm doing this exact this everyone is warned not to do because I have a permit". Ignorance I can forgive, but willful and arrogant manipulation? That's another thing entirely.

[bookwyrminspiration]

what are your thoughts on israel?

I am going to assume you mean well with this, though I'd caution it can very easily come across as not so.

First, if you want specifics and well-composed familiarity and a history lesson alongside it, I'll have to direct you elsewhere. I was almost entirely unaware of Palestine and Israel's ongoing colonialism until October, and I still have a lot to read/learn.

What I can say is: genocide is wrong, colonialism is wrong, and it isn't antisemetic to criticize and condemn that. The cruelty, inhumanity, and massacres Israel is currently and actively perpetuating against Palestinians cannot be justified and must be stopped immediately. And it is infuriating how much resistance efforts to do so are receiving.

It is the responsibility of those able to do something to support Palestine and its liberation to do that something. Here are few things you may be able to do:

Daily Click for Palestine

Operation Olive Branch

Donate E-Sims

Donate to Families Directly

Donate to UNRWA

Contact Your Representatives to Demand Ceasefire (I can't find the post I saved with a walk-through guide, so if anyone has another I'd be happy to link it)

Look for Protests and Events being organized in your area (I don't have a good, broad resource for this; if someone does, I'm happy to link it)

Peruse This Palestine 101 Masterlist for even more

Do what you can, and Free Palestine