#mobius gets exactly the emotional responses out of loki that he wants. he gets loki to stop fighting back. even a genuine admission

[percheduphere]

Exactly @loki-us. Great gifset for the receipts!

It's also important to note that Mobius is the only person Loki doesn't need OB's TemPad for when "getting the band back together". He uses the TemPad to return to everyone else on purpose, including Sylvie (you can hear the time door opening and closing off screen).

When everyone spaghettifies, Sylvie's words "Do you think what makes a Loki a Loki is that we're destined to lose?" triggers Loki's emotions to control his timeslipping for the first time. But the question becomes, what is Loki afraid of losing?

And it is then that Loki arrives at the right answer: it is not when, what, how, or why, but who, and director of photography very pointedly holds the camera behind Don/Mobius as Loki says this before finally turning to Sylvie, who was the last person who pressured Loki for his true answer earlier in the episode.

One of the key differences between our two main Loki variants is that Sylvie was orphaned as a young child and has survived through apocalypses. She has never had the opportunity to live as herself in a society, and accordingly, she has never had to bend herself to society's judgment or supress her wants. Sylvie is very aware and blunt about what she wants and is unafraid of pursuing those wants without restraint.

It is telling that the script does not have Sylvie say, "with me." Their romantic relationship, as far as she is concerned, is not feasible because the TVA ruined her life and Loki, to her chagrin, loves the TVA (or rather the people of the TVA), of whom Mobius is the most important person to him.

Sylvie also knows what Loki means to Mobius and outright points out to Loki the genuineness of Mobius's feelings in S1E5:

It is with this combined knowledge that Sylvie knows that Loki's first answer, "to stop he who remains", is a cop out. She is not satisfied until Loki answers, "I want my friends back." Sylvie honestly could have drilled down deeper to the specific friend. What we've been shown in the series indicates she knows the answer beneath the answer.

Loki, who has lived what could be considered a "normal life" until Thor 1, has been othered and consequently learned to suppress and even outright reject parts of himself. This is why Loki struggles to answer Sylvie honestly, and Sylvie loves him enough to lead him to the real answer, whether she likes it or not. The narrative tells us Loki wants his friends back. That's a truthful response, but it somehow does not feel strong or specific enough.

The censorship put in place by studio executive power, which bends to the whims of capitalism, stifles creative honesty. As much as possible, we should please avoid blaming the artists because they are the lowest in the hierarchy of Hollywood power. The artists--the writers, actors, directors, set and costume designers, lighting team, and composer--have to find subtler ways to tell this queer story as a team. Whatever contradictions may appear is the direct result of corporate greed.

The true answer, which remained silent, can only be shown visually in the final moments of the finale. The final moments of the finale, like the final moments of a stage play, are a means of each character to say goodbye to the audience in descending order of importance. The final 2 characters we say goodbye to have traditionally been reserved for the lovers. We see this exact visual mechanic used in the Legend of Korra. we see Mako (Korra's former lover; a la Sylvie) is the third to the last to exit the stage before we are left with Korra and Asami.

Likewise, after squeezing Mobius's shoulder, Sylvie exits the stage and leaves the audience with a private moment between Loki and Mobius.

Out of all the places Loki time slips in 2x5, he really was just trying to get back to Mobius the entire time.

Time theater 25 where Mobius first took Loki in 1x1

The room with all the key lime pies where they shared a snack in 2x2

He appears at the store Don works at not once, but twice before finally going in

Out of all his friends, Mobius is the one he’s most relieved to see

And then finally finds him again, appearing right in Don’s front yard

[pennylaneforthoughts]

After some thinking, a conversation with my sister-in-law with a psych degree, and a couple of sessions with my godsend of a therapist, I think I've finally put my finger on the thing about Mobius that Loki (and a lot of the fandom tbh) so quickly latched onto like a man dying of thirst at the first sign of water:

Unconditional positive regard.

This concept is at the core of client-centered psychology and basically is a stance that a therapist will take in relation to their client, where they simply accept and support their client as a person, regardless of what they do or say.

My therapist uses this framework with me, and when the Loki series came out, I immediately saw Mobius and was like "holy crap, this man has the exact same energy as Sami what???" And I couldn't for the life of me figure out why until I was talking about it with my sister-in-law and she mentioned unconditional positive regard. And then it clicked.

Mobius radiates unconditional positive regard from the minute he meets Loki in episode 1, and arguably even from the first time we even see him onscreen. He approaches everyone he interacts with using a basic framework of "I see you and care about you as a person, and nothing you do or say can change that," so we immediately get the impression that this man is soft, kind, and shaped like a friend. However, it's most obvious and pointed in his interactions with Loki.

While yes, Mobius' primary objective in episode 1 is to interrogate Loki, it's important to note that it's not an interrogation where Mobius is trying to find proof of guilt for a crime like we'd see in a typical detective procedural. Rather, Mobius is trying to see if this variant of Loki is self aware enough to be able to help him in his hunt for Sylvie. It's fundamentally a test to find out Loki's current place in his emotional and psychological development. It is not maliciously intended, and it is not designed to harm Loki. On the contrary, the intent is clearly to help Loki begin to come to terms with the reality of who he is and the choices he has made.

In fact, the whole time this is happening, Mobius very purposefully strives to foster an environment where Loki knows that A.) Mobius sees him. Truly sees and knows him. B.) Despite knowing what Loki is and what he's done, Mobius loves him and regards him positively, and C.) nothing Loki can do or say will change that positive regard.

Loki, however, is super not used to receiving unconditional positive regard. He has no idea how to respond to it. He feels like it's a trick, like there's another shoe just waiting to drop. I related to him hardcore in this scene because that's exactly how I felt when my therapist presented me with unconditional positive regard for the first time. It's confusing and strange and difficult to believe at first. Especially because it sets the stage for honest self reflection and personal growth that can be incredibly painful.

Loki is not a perfectly innocent person. He has done a lot of really bad things and hurt a lot of people in his life. He has a lot of very deep seated trauma that has informed these actions, but he still made those choices and he needs to take responsibility for them. This is not a fun process. Mobius knows this is actually a really awful, sucky process. But he also knows that change and growth requires two things: acknowledgement that a change needs to be made and the expectation that change can and will occur when properly cultivated. Mobius clearly laying out the reality of Loki's actions and who he is in the Sacred Timeline is the first part of that equation, and his unflappable, unconditional positive regard towards Loki as a person despite knowing that reality cultivates an environment for the second part to flourish.

"By definition, it is essential in any helping relationship to have an anticipation for change. In the counseling relationship, that anticipation presents as Hope—an optimism that something good and positive will develop to bring about constructive change in the client's personality. Thus, unconditional positive regard means that the therapist has and shows overall acceptance of the client by setting aside their own personal opinions and biases. The main factor in unconditional positive regard is the ability to isolate behaviors from the person who displays them." (source)

Mobius is not Loki's therapist, but he does take on a therapeutic role in Loki's life. He shows Loki that he is fully aware of all of Loki's faults and mistakes. He's seen them over and over again and knows them by heart because it's his job. And in the face of all of that he looks at Loki and says that he doesn't see him as a villain. That he likes him anyway and believes that Loki has the potential to help him and what he believes is the cause of good. (Yes the TVA is corrupt, but neither of them know that at this point, and the fact that both Mobius and Loki believe this to be the side of good to varying degrees is important here)

Mobius maintains this regard throughout the series and his subsequent interactions with Loki and when talking about Loki to Ravonna and others, and it's a big part of why Loki so quickly trusts and feels comfortable around Mobius. I know some people say it's unrealistic how fast it was, but it made a lot of sense just based on my experience. I mean, after one (1) session with my therapist, I was 100% ride or die for him, and it was kind of absurd. But the feeling of being seen like that is so potent when you're starved for it, that extreme reactions to it make a lot of sense. And if anyone's starved for unconditional positive regard, it's Loki.

Mobius is only human though, and he's not perfect at this. Over the course of the series, it's clear that Mobius has emotionally invested a lot in his Loki, and he struggles to maintain a professional distance, though he usually is able to keep his head enough to give Loki that positive regard he needs. The only time we see this regard slip is in episode 4 when Mobius is feeling betrayed and jealous. In these moments, Mobius is unable to step back from his feelings enough to get into a headspace where he can separate Loki's actions from who he is. He calls Loki an asshole and a bad friend, and it comes from a place of hurt and jealousy. It's also what drives Loki into a defensive mode we haven't seen since episode 1. He's no longer receiving that unconditional positive regard from Mobius and he feels betrayed. He worries that maybe it was all an act in the first place and Mobius never really cared for him at all. For the first time, Loki feels like Mobius doesn't see the best in him anymore and it hurts.

Mobius' unconditional positive regard was genuine, though, and this is reinforced in the subsequent scenes where we see him act on his instinctual desire to assume the best of Loki and investigate his claims. We see it again when he returns to Loki and he reaffirms both his desire to trust Loki and his belief that Loki can be "whoever, whatever he wants to be, even someone good." At this point, Loki is able to accept it and no longer pushes back against Mobius' belief in Loki's goodness and that he "has within himself vast resources for self-understanding, for altering his self-concept, attitudes, and self-directed behavior." He's grown and begun to see himself in a more realistic and positive light and it's a direct result of the time Mobius has spent cultivating that relationship based on unconditional positive regard.

That's why their relationship feels so comfortable and satisfying. Unconditional positive regard isn't only a therapy principle. It's something everyone craves in a relationship. To be seen as you are, flaws and mistakes and quirks and all is terrifying and mortifying, but when that person then just smiles and says I love you anyway because you are not your mistakes and you are not your flaws and nothing you can ever do or say can change how I feel about you, the relief and joy and comfort is more than worth the discomfort. So I think the idea that Mobius can look at someone as deeply flawed, broken, and jaded as Loki and love him exactly as he is right there and then, eyes wide open and smiling, believing that beneath it all Loki has the potential to be good, gives us hope that someone could do the same for us. I know that's what Lokius does for me, at least. Mobius represents to me the ideal of unconditional positive regard, and having an image of what that looks like in the character of Mobius gives us the opportunity to apply it to ourselves when we may not get it elsewhere in our lives. And I, for one, think that's very sexy of him.

[dendrite-blues]

For a relatively short exchange, this scene is jam packed with characterization for Loki. 

It’s also our first reliable look into what Loki was like before Thor 1. Not as described by others, but first hand and from his own mouth. I think that deserves a closer look, to see what we can learn about Loki and how he thinks.

This scene is significant because it tells us what Loki’s personality is like when he’s not running for his life. It tells us who he was before his trauma and what his core beliefs are underneath those layers of humor and bravado.

Better yet, since he’s alone we can assume that every line in this scene is presumably true, or at least Loki believes it to be true since he has no audience but himself. 

The dialogue centers mostly around the statement “You deserve to be alone, and you always will be.” I’m not going to focus too much on the “alone” motif since I already dedicated an entire meta post to it.

What I think is more interesting about this scene is actually the looping, and the stages Loki goes through in trying to deal with it. There’s a lot of really interesting character traits on display in that progression.

Loop 1: A Warm Bath and Glass of Wine

The first loop entails Sif lecturing Loki about cutting her hair, kicking him in the balls, and storming away. Loki kneels on the floor and he gives us this great line:

“A bad memory prison? How quaint. Some punishment. I remember exactly what I did after that. I went and had a nice, hot bath and a glass of wine, and I never thought about it again. Because it was just a bit of fun.”

So we can take this to be Loki’s default reaction to pain and criticism. When put into an unexpected conflict without any forethought or outside influence, this is what he says/does.

1) Downplay the damage/threat. How quaint. 2) Dispel/soothe the emotion. Nice hot bath. 3) Minimize the impact. Never thought about it again. 4) Deflect responsibility. Just a bit of fun.

Keep those in mind as we move forward, since we���ll be using them to make sense of what else Loki says in this scene.

Loops 2 and 3: Okay, Sif, Hang On

This bit is about Loki realizing just how bad his predicament is.

L: Okay. Okay, Sif. Hang on. S: No, you hear this. You deserve to be alone... And I always will be. L: Alright, I get it. Listen. You are a reconstruction of a past event created by the organization that controls all of time. So you need to trust me and you need to help me escape. Yeah? S: Pathetic. (she kicks him again) L: (winces and groans)

As we all would expect from him, Loki’s first impulse is to try and talk his way out of it. What he says to achieve that goal is pretty revealing though. Because he doesn’t try to ease Sif’s upset by apologizing or explaining or offering to magic her hair back. 

Any of these would have been more likely to save his nads in the given circumstance, right? The present threat is Sif, and she’s mad about what Loki did to her hair. But Loki doesn’t really see that. Rather, he treats her as a means to an end.

“So you need to trust me and you need to help me escape. Yeah?”

To me, that choice reveals something of a blind spot Loki has to the feelings of others. Even if he doesn’t actively like hurting people, he does prioritize their problems below his, and quite shamelessly. And at least on his first impulse, he doesn’t seem to feel much remorse or empathy for them.

Usually in fanon we attribute this callousness to his trauma. He’s learned that no one can be trusted and no one cares, and so he doesn’t allow himself to care for others. 

But between his Loop 1 sentiment of “It was just a bit of fun” for an event which caused real hurt to Sif, and his Loop 2/3 behavior of “you, stop being mad and help ME” I think it’s reasonable to say that selfishness/low empathy are traits Loki possessed pre-trauma.

Loop 4-????: Happens Off Screen

It’s unclear how many times Loki loops while the camera is following Mobius, but the implication is clear that it was been many, many repetitions. Somewhere in this his denial and deflection must break, because we come back to a much humbler, more pleading Loki.

The Final Loop: I Crave Attention

S: You conniving, craven... L: Sif. Sif. S: ...pathetic worm. L: Please, please, no more. Please, I beg you. I'm a horrible person. I get it. I really am. I cut off your hair because I thought it'd be funny. And it's not. Uh... I crave attention... because I'm... a narcissist. And I suppose it's... It's because I'm scared of being alone.

HOOO BOY, so this is quite a tough bit to analyze. There’s a lot of interpretations you could make, and a lot of topics to delve into. For the sake of focus, I’m going to ignore the narcissism question. That one really needs an entire post, and I want to focus on something else here.

That being, Loki’s way of processing conflict/punishment.

I’ve always found it strange how Loki takes such pride in being called a liar and cheat when he simultaneously has this chip on his shoulder about how nobody likes him. 

Those two traits don’t seem to play well together, and I always scratched my head over how they coexist in his character. If he wants people to be nicer to him, maybe he should stop antagonizing them? Yeah?

Well, here we’re finally given a clear reason. Loki craves attention, he hates being alone. So how does he avoid it? Pranks and mischief. 

Fair enough.

But then, if all his pranks lead to this outcome--outrage, retaliation, insult--why doesn’t he ever learn? How is it that after 1000 years of this behavior, he hasn’t found a better way to get the attention he craves? 

Loop 1: Downplay, dispel, minimize, deflect. He accepts zero accountability for the impact of his actions, and doesn’t think at all about how they affect other people. Just a bit of fun. I had a hot bath and a glass of wine, and never thought about it again. 

The only reason he reaches the level of self awareness on display in the Final Loop is because the looping forces him to contemplate his actions and the impulses within him that lead to that behavior.

This is projection on my part, but to me he acts as though this kind of deep reflection is a new thing for him. He sounds like someone sharing a revelation that he’s just had about himself. We’re being shown that Loki is a man of action. He will always move forward if he can, possibly because looking back to so painful that he can’t bring himself to do it.

Circling back around to the pride Loki has for his knavery, let’s suppose that he’s been on this negative reinforcement cycle since childhood. He’s always acted out to get attention, then received retaliation and insults for it, and then pushed the bad feelings out of his mind with creature comforts and mental gymnastics.

What happens over time, when you’re being constantly told that you’re a pain in the ass and no one likes you? Most of us would take it to heart, but Loki doesn’t. He has a big ego, big enough to resist that constant barrage of hate coming at him.

So how does he marry these two conflicting realities? 

He turns it into an identity, the God of Mischief. 

In his head, Loki excuses himself of blame by shifting the culpability to his moniker. It’s not that he’s immature and petty, he’s just a “trickster.” It’s in his nature to cause trouble, so he can’t help it. You wouldn’t dangle a steak in front of a tiger and blame the tiger for striking, would you? And if other people can’t take a “joke” then that’s not his fault, that’s on them for not having a sense of humor. It was just a bit of fun.

Here we see the union of these two halves of Loki, the lonely ice runt and the mischievous scamp. (And a little bit of the original Loki who Thor accused of being incapable of growth!) 

By refusing to think about others, and excusing himself from responsibility, Loki successfully preserves his self worth and insulates himself to most of the negative emotions he experiences.

Pain, embarrassment, and grief aren’t pointless emotions though. They are vital feelings that serve to regulate our behavior, and that push us to conform to the ways of our social circles. Without them, we annoy and upset others. Be annoying for long enough and you will eventually find yourself, well, alone. As Loki is.

Thus “Mischief” is a self-defeating loop, and Loki is just as caught in it as the cell Mobius trapped him in.

In order to be free of both traps, Loki has to stop running. He has to take a deeper look at himself and realize how much he is getting in his own way. The entire scene is one big parallel between these two “loops.” Pretty neat, huh?

Sadly these kinds of thought loops are really difficult to break, they’re buried so deeply in our personalities and habits that we usually don’t notice them until life forces us to address them.

The cell is Loki’s wake up call, and thankfully he does seem to rise to the occasion. He tells Sif quite clearly what his problem is, and he does it with beautiful, painful honesty.

Which is why it’s so fucking awesome for Mobius to acknowledge that, and to finally give Loki a taste of positive attention. 

You don’t deserve to be alone. I believe you can be anything, even something good. Whatever you two did, it was powerful enough to bring this whole place down.

It’s a beautiful scene. Well written, meticulously acted. The clarity of vision in the pacing and shot selection, it’s really something special.

[lokiondisneyplus]

'Loki' takes over: Tom Hiddleston on his new TV series and a decade in the MCU

Ten years after Hiddleston first chose chaos in Thor, Marvel’s fan favorite God of Mischief is going even bigger with his time-bending Disney+ show.

Tom Hiddleston is Loki, and he is burdened with glorious purpose: After playing Thor's puckish brother for over a decade in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, no one understands the mercurial Asgardian God of Mischief as well as the actor. He can teach an entire seminar on Loki if given the opportunity — which he actually did during pre-production on his forthcoming Disney+ show. In conversation, Hiddleston quotes lines from his MCU debut, 2011's Thor, almost verbatim, and will playfully correct you if you mistakenly refer to Asgard's Rainbow Bridge as the Bifrost, which is the portal that connects Loki and Thor's homeworld to the Nine Realms, including Midgard, a.k.a. Earth. "Well, the Bifrost technically is the energy that runs through the bridge," he says with a smile. "But nine points to Gryffindor!" And when he shows up to the photo shoot for this very digital cover, he hops on a call with our photo editor to pitch ways the concept could be even more Loki, like incorporating the flourish the trickster does whenever magically conjuring something. The lasting impression is that playing Loki isn't just a paycheck.

"Rather than ownership, it's a sense of responsibility I feel to give my best every time and do the best I can because I feel so grateful to be a part of what Marvel Studios has created," the 40-year-old Brit tells EW over Zoom a few days after the shoot and a week out from Thor's 10th anniversary. "I just want to make sure I've honored that responsibility with the best that I can give and the most care and thought and energy."

After appearing in three Thor movies and three Avengers, Hiddleston is bringing that passion to his first solo Marvel project, Loki, the House of Ideas' third Disney+ series following the sitcom pastiche WandaVision and the topical The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Led by head writer Michael Waldron (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Heels), the six-episode drama sees Hiddleston's shapeshifting agent of chaos step out from behind his brother's shadow and into the spotlight for a timey-wimey, sci-fi adventure that aims to get to the bottom of who Loki really is. "I wanted to explore slightly more complex character questions," says Waldron. "It's not just good versus bad. Is anybody all good? Is anybody all bad? What makes a hero, a hero? A villain, a villain?"  

Even though Loki — who loves sowing mayhem with his illusion magic and shapeshifting, all with a major chip on his shoulder — has never been one for introspection, the idea of building an entire show around him was a no-brainer for Marvel. When asked why Loki was one of the studio's first Disney+ shows, Marvel president Kevin Feige replies matter-of-factly, "More Hiddleston, more Loki." First introduced as Thor's (Chris Hemsworth) envious brother in Kenneth Branagh's Thor, Loki went full Big Bad in 2012's The Avengers. That film cemented the impish rogue as one of the shared universe's fan favorites, thanks to Hiddleston's ability to make him deliciously villainous yet charismatic and, most importantly, empathetic. The character's popularity is one of the reasons he's managed to avoid death many times.

"He's been around for thousands of years. He had all sorts of adventures," says Feige. "Wanting to fill in the blanks and see much more of Loki's story [was] the initial desire [for the series]."

The Loki we meet on the show is not the one who fought the Avengers in 2012 and evolved into an antihero in Thor: The Dark World and Thor: Ragnarok before meeting his demise at the hands of the mad titan Thanos (Josh Brolin) in 2018's Avengers: Infinity War. Instead, we'll be following a Loki from a branched timeline (a variant, if you will) after he stole the Tesseract following his thwarted New York invasion and escaped S.H.I.E.L.D. custody during the time heist featured in Avengers: Endgame. In other words, this Loki hasn't gone through any sort of redemption arc. He's still the charming yet petulant god who firmly believes he's destined to rule and has never gotten his due.

Premiering June 9, Loki begins with the Time Variance Authority — a bureaucratic organization tasked with safeguarding the proper flow of time — arresting the Loki Variant seen in Endgame because they want his help fixing all of the timeline problems he caused while on the run with the Tesseract. So there will be time travel, and a lot more of it than in Endgame. As Loki makes his way through his own procedural, he'll match wits with new characters including Owen Wilson's Agent Mobius, a brilliant TVA analyst, and Gugu Mbatha-Raw's Judge Renslayer. The question in early episodes is whether Loki will help them or take over.

"One of the things Kevin Feige led on was, 'I think we should find a way of exploring the parts of Loki that are independent of his relationship with Thor,' or see him in a duality or in relationship with others, which I thought was very exciting," says Hiddleston, who also serves as an executive producer on the show. "So the Odinson saga, that trilogy of films, still has its integrity, and we don't have to reopen it and retell it."

Yet, in order to understand where Loki is going, it's important to see where he came from.

Hiddleston can't believe how long he and Loki have been connected. "I've been playing this character for 11 years," he says. "Which is the first time I have said that sentence, I realize, and it [blows] my mind. I don't know what percentage that is exactly of my 40 years of being alive, but it's substantial."

His time as Loki actually goes a bit further back, to 2009 — a year after Robert Downey Jr. big banged the MCU into existence with Iron Man — when he auditioned for Thor. It's no secret that Hiddleston initially went in for the role of the titular God of Thunder, but Feige and director Kenneth Branagh thought his natural charm and flexibility as an actor made him better suited for the movie's damaged antagonist. "Tom gave you an impression that he could be ready for anything, performance-wise," says Branagh, who had previously worked with him on a West End revival of Checkov's Ivanov and the BBC series Wallander. "Tom has a wild imagination, so does Loki. He's got a mischievous sense of humor and he was ready to play. It felt like he had a star personality, but he was a team player."

Hiddleston fully immersed himself in the character. Outside of studying Loki's history in the Marvel Comics, he also researched how Loki and the Trickster God archetype appeared across mythology and different cultures. "He understood that he was already in something special [and] it was a special character in a special part of that early moment in the life of the Marvel universe where [he] also needed to step up in other ways," says Branagh, who was impressed by the emotional depth Hiddleston brought to the part, especially when it came to how isolated Loki felt in the Asgardian royal family.  

There was a lot riding on that first Thor feature. For one, no one knew if audiences would immediately latch onto a Shakespearean superhero movie partially set on an alien planet populated by the Norse Gods of legend. Second, it was integral to Feige's plans for the shared universe. Loki was supposed to be the main villain in The Avengers, which would not only mirror how Earth's mightiest heroes joined forces in 1963's Avengers #1 but also give Thor a believable reason for teaming up with Iron Man, Captain America (Chris Evans), and the rest of the capes. Feige first clued Hiddleston into those larger plans when the actor was in L.A. before Thor started shooting.

"I was like, 'Excuse me?' Because he was already three, four steps ahead," says Hiddleston. "That took me a few minutes to process, because I didn't quite realize how it just suddenly had a scope. And being cast as Loki, I realized, was a very significant moment for me in my life, and was going to remain. The creative journey was going to be so exciting."

Hiddleston relished the opportunity to go full villain in Avengers, like in the scene where Loki ordered a crowd to kneel before him outside a German opera house: "It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation," says the Machiavellian god. "The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."

"I just knew that in the structure of that film, I had to lean into his role as a pure antagonist," Hiddleston recalls. "What I always found curious and complex about the way Loki is written in Avengers, is that his status as an antagonist comes from the same well of not belonging and being marginalized and isolated in the first Thor film. Loki now knows he has no place in Asgard."

Loki did find a place within the audience's hearts, though. Feige was "all in" on Hiddleston as his Loki from the beginning, but even he couldn't predict how much fans would love him. Feige recalls the reaction at the 2013 San Diego Comic-Con: "Did we know that after he was the villain in two movies, he would be bringing thousands of people to their feet in Hall H, in costume, chanting his name? No, that was above and beyond the plan that we were hoping for and dreaming of." It was a dream Feige first got an inkling of a year earlier during the Avengers press tour when a Russian fan slipped past security, snuck into Mark Ruffalo's car, and asked the Hulk actor to give Hiddleston a piece of fan art she created. "That was one of the early signs there was much more happening with this quote-unquote villain."  

Despite that popularity, the plan was to kill Loki off in 2013's Thor: The Dark World, but the studio reversed course after test audiences refused to believe he actually died fighting the Dark Elves. Alas, he couldn't out-illusion death forever. After returning in Taika Waititi's colorful and idiosyncratic Thor: Ragnarok, Hiddleston's character perished for real in the opening moments of Infinity War. In typical Loki fashion, before Thanos crushed his windpipe, he delivered a defiant speech that indicated he'd finally made peace with the anger he felt toward his family.  

"It felt very, very final, and I thought, 'Okay, that's it. This is Loki's final bow and a conclusive end to the Odinson saga,'" says Hiddleston, who shot that well-earned death scene in 2017.  

But, though he didn't know it yet, the actor's MCU story was far from over.

Credit: Charlie Gray for EW

When Hiddleston returned to film two scenes in Avengers: Endgame in 2017, he had no idea where Loki portaled off to after snatching the Tesseract. "Where'd he go? When does he go? How does he get there? These are all questions I remember asking on the day, and then not being given any answers," Hiddleston recalls. To be fair, it's likely the Powers That Be didn't necessarily have answers then. While Feige can't exactly recall when the writers' room for Endgame first devised Loki's escape sequence, he does know that setting up a future show wasn't the primary goal — because a Loki series wasn't on the horizon just yet.

"[That scene] was really more of a wrinkle so that one of the missions that the Avengers went on in Endgame could get screwed up and not go well, which is what required Cap and Tony to go further back in time to the '70s," says Feige. Soon after that, though, former Disney CEO Bob Iger approached Feige about producing content for the studio's forthcoming streaming service. "I think the notion that we had left this hanging loose end with Loki gave us the in for what a Loki series could be. So by the time [Endgame] came out, we did know where it was going."

As for Hiddleston, he didn't find out about the plans for a Loki show until spring 2018, a few weeks before Infinity War hit theaters. "I probably should not have been surprised, but I was," says the actor. "But only because Infinity War had felt so final."

Nevertheless, Hiddleston was excited about returning for his show. He was eager to explore Loki's powers, especially the shapeshifting, and what it meant that this disruptive figure still managed to find a seat beside the gods in mythology. "I love this idea [of] Loki's chaotic energy somehow being something we need. Even though, for all sorts of reasons, you don't know whether you can trust him. You don't know whether he's going to betray you. You don't why he's doing what he's doing," says Hiddleston. "If he's shapeshifting so often, does he even know who he is? And is he even interested in understanding who he is? Underneath all those masks, underneath the charm and the wit, which is kind of a defense anyway, does Loki have an authentic self? Is he introspective enough or brave enough to find out? I think all of those ideas are all in the series — ideas about identity, ideas about self-knowledge, self-acceptance, and the difficulty of it."

“The series will explore Loki's powers in a way they have not yet been explored, which is very, very exciting.”

The thing that truly sold Hiddleston on the show was Marvel's decision to include the Time Variance Authority, a move he describes as "the best idea that anybody had pertaining to the series." Feige and Loki executive producer Stephen Broussard had hoped to find a place for the TVA — an organization that debuted in 1986's Thor #372 and has appeared in She-Hulk and Fantastic Four stories — in the MCU for years, but the right opportunity never presented itself until Loki came along. "Putting Loki into his own procedural series became the eureka moment for the show," says Feige.  

The TVA's perspective on time and reality also tied into the themes that Waldron, Loki's head writer, was hoping to explore. "Loki is a character that's always reckoning with his own identity, and the TVA, by virtue of what they do, is uniquely suited to hold up a mirror to Loki and make him really confront who he is and who he was supposed to be," says Waldron. Hiddleston adds: "[That] was very exciting because in the other films, there was always something about Loki that was very controlled. He seemed to know exactly what the cards in his hand were and how he was going to play them…. And Loki versus the TVA is Loki out of control immediately, and in an environment in which he's completely behind the pace, out of his comfort zone, destabilized, and acting out."

To truly dig into who Loki is, the creative team had to learn from the man who knows him best: Hiddleston. "I got him to do a thing called Loki School when we first started," says director Kate Herron. "I asked him to basically talk through his 10 years of the MCU — from costumes to stunts, to emotionally how he felt in each movie. It was fantastic."

Hiddleston got something out of the Loki school, too. Owen Wilson both attended the class and interviewed Hiddleston afterward so that he could better understand Loki, as his character Mobius is supposed to be an expert on him. During their conversation, Wilson pointedly asked Hiddleston what he loved about playing the character.

"And I said, 'I think it's because he has so much range,'" says Hiddleston. "I remember saying this to him: 'On the 88 keys on the piano, he can play the twinkly light keys at the top. He can keep it witty and light, and he's the God of Mischief, but he can also go down to the other side and play the heavy keys. And he can play some really profound chords down there, which are about grief and betrayal and loss and heartbreak and jealousy and pride.'" Hiddleston recalls Wilson being moved by the description: "He said, 'I think I might say that in the show.' And it was such a brilliant insight for me into how open Owen is as an artist and a performer.'"

Owen Wilson as Mobius and Tom Hiddleston as Loki in 'Loki.'| Credit: Chuck Zlotnick/Marvel Studios

Everyone involved is particularly excited for audiences to see Hiddleston and Wilson's on-screen chemistry. "Mobius is not unlike Owen Wilson in that he's sort of nonplussed by the MCU," says Feige. "[Loki] is used to getting a reaction out of people, whether it's his brother or his father, or the other Avengers. He likes to be very flamboyant and theatrical. Mobius doesn't give him the reaction he's looking for. That leads to a very unique relationship that Loki's not used to."

As for the rest of the series, we know that Loki will be jumping around time and reality, but the creative team isn't keen on revealing when and where. "Every episode, we tried to take inspiration from different things," says Waldron, citing Blade Runner's noir aesthetic as one example.

"Part of the fun of the multiverse and playing with time is seeing other versions of characters, and other versions of the titular character in particular," says Feige, who also declined to confirm if Loki ties into Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and/or other upcoming projects.

Making Loki was especially meaningful to Hiddleston because they shot most of it during the pandemic, in late 2020. "It will remain one of the absolute most intense, most rewarding experiences of my life," he says. "It's a series about time, and the value of time, and what time is worth, and I suppose what the experience of being alive is worth. And I don't quite know yet, and maybe I don't have perspective on it, if all the thinking and the reflecting that we did during the lockdown ended up in the series. But in some way, it must have because everything we make is a snapshot of where we were in our lives at that time."

While it remains to be seen what the future holds for Loki beyond this initial season, Hiddleston isn't preparing to put the character to bed yet. "I'm open to everything," he says. "I have said goodbye to the character. I've said hello to the character. I said goodbye to the character [again]. I've learned not to make assumptions, I suppose. I'm just grateful that I'm still here, and there are still new roads to explore."

[kittyfandango]

About Sylvie

I’ve been trying to work out exactly how I feel about her as a character. 

On misogyny 

Sylvie fans are very quick to cry misogyny at critics. And you know, I get it. I do. Female characters often are treated terribly (the first one that comes to mind is Rose Tico from Star Wars and the horrific sexist racist abuse aimed at actress Kelly Marie Tran). It’s not nice to have to play “is this argument in good faith or are you just a bigot” when you want to find good discussion and critical analysis of media. And women and minorities can be held to a much higher standard, like they’re always responsible for representing their entire group. If they’re not perfect studios are just going to give up and cast all straight white men again next time because obviously it didn’t work out. 

(via XKCD)

But about Sylvie. I do think there’s misogyny involved. Just from the creators (not the critics) who haven’t done a good job of making her anything but “strong female” like they forgot the “strong character” part. I wouldn’t know how to describe her as a person - Sylvie mostly has two emotions: angry and smug (although to be fair she’s not the only one in the show that’s a bit one dimensional). I would like to note I don’t blame any of this on Sophia Di Martino - I don’t know what she’s like as an actress (if this was the only performance I had to judge Tom Hiddleston on I wouldn’t be very impressed either, and I know he’s talented).

The chosen one (not like other Lokis)

Sylvie’s is very much a chosen one story. In a multiverse of Lokis, she’s the one blonde, the one woman, the one who rejected her inherent ‘Lokiness’. The one chosen by Kang for his endgame (ok, Loki was there too I suppose). She’s both special and frightening, and nothing like all of the other backstabbing bickering ridiculous variants. She’s the only Loki who’s ever been a threat to the TVA while ‘our’ Loki (or what’s left of him) was just convenient for the TVA who needed help catching her. She has a very ‘not like other girls’ vibe.

If Loki and Sylvie were too similar I’m not sure it’d be very interesting either though. There’s not much point in having the same character twice. It just grates having the ‘superior Loki’ being superior by rejecting everything he’s supposed to be.

Is Sylvie a sympathetic character?

Sure, on paper she should be. She’s gone through a lot, of course what happened to her was horrific. The TVA took everything from her and she spent her whole life running from apocalypse to apocalypse (and plotting revenge). It’d be pretty hypocritical to condemn what happened to Loki and not do the same for her. The thing is though, they never manage to show this. The scene where she’s taken as child is sad, but that’s all we got. Contrast that with Thor 1 where Loki is very much cast as the villain, but we see his pain, how he reacts when he’s alone, we see the impact of these events on him. She got a lot of screen time, but that’s not the same a seeing things from her perspective.

She’s also framed as sympathetic at the expense of Loki. Everything he went through, she had it worse. She deserves to get revenge on the TVA, but he doesn’t - he’s just some asshole getting in the way who’s never had anything bad happen to him ever. If the only way to make your character look good is to make another one look bad, something’s gone wrong.

Is she a villain?

She does kill a lot of people. Although it is really common for action heroes to kill faceless mooks along the way without it being examined or framed as a bad thing (and maybe it should be, perhaps it stands out to me because she is female and I’m a bit more desensitised to the same sort of casual violence for a male character) her motivation being revenge takes it out of the heroic. But it’s revealed that the TVA employees are a bit more complicated than just evil henchmen and you end up with this weird impasse where Sylvie and the TVA are both framed as good guys and victims. Sylvie and Mobius sort of awkwardly non-apologise at each other and it doesn’t come up again. You know if it had been Loki murdering Minutemen the narrative wouldn’t let him off the hook so easily.

I think she could have been a complicated anti-hero if everything was written better. But we got what we got.

Sylvie’s relationship with Loki

If it hadn’t been for interviewers with the creators, I’d still assume it was supposed to be one sided. I think a lot of my problem with Sylvie comes from the people making this show not agreeing with what they wanted her to be. Kate Herron seems to want both a love story and a self-acceptance metaphor that don’t work together. Michael Waldron seems to have cast her in the role of the girl from his script “The Worst Guy Of All Time, And The Girl Who Came To Kill Him” who apparently despises the “worst guy” but is really horny for him. Without the sex part Sylvie just doesn’t seem to like Loki much. And then there’s composer Natalie Holt who compared her to his mother... 

So

Obviously this is all my opinion, and if you’ve found a new favourite character in Sylvie that’s great. I don’t hate Sylvie, but she never quite comes together a person to me. I can imagine versions of her that I’d like better, but as she is I think she feels incomplete and inconsistent as a character. I don’t find her particularly compelling and if she wasn’t supposed to be a version of a character I loved, I probably wouldn’t have given it much thought. One reason for the accusations of misogyny I’ve heard is that the characteristics we liked in Loki, we suddenly don’t like in Sylvie. But I honestly don’t see anything of original Loki in her (other than the clothes).

[kiki-shortsnout]

21. Listening to someone's heartbeat? From the intimacy prompts, With Loki/Tony, please? 💜

I could've written a whole story with this prompt! As it is I struggled to keep this near 2,000 words! Thank you for the prompt!

~~~~

Where is this place? What is this place? Loki asked himself for about the millionth time, glancing around the room and trying not to fidget on the hard-backed chair he was sat on. He stretched his neck from side to side, trying to relieve the irritating itch he felt from the collar chafing his neck.

He’d suffered through worse. He could endure this.

‘If looks could kill,’ Mobius mocked.

‘What do you want from me?’

‘Well, let’s start with a little cooperation.’

This man knew nothing about him, and Loki had already formulated a plan about how he was going to escape from here, possibly killing him in the process. However, that plan began to unravel the more they spoke, this TVA agent able to strip back every façade, every mask that Loki had constructed around himself.

Only one other person had been able to do that, strip Loki bare and see his vulnerable, true self beneath.

And that man was currently shining on the wall that was playing the movie of Loki’s life.

Loki didn’t react at seeing Anthony again, didn’t give away what they were to each other, feeling himself seethe as an image of them kissing after a battle was revealed.

His greatest secret.

‘A secret Avenger lover! How did you guys manage to hide that? I don’t know which is worse, a hero falling in love with the bad guy who murdered his people…’

Loki clenched his teeth, refusing to speak. It was no one’s business about how he and Anthony had gotten together, what drew them together in the first place. He knew what Mobius was trying to do, but it wasn’t going to work. He was going to escape, find the Tesseract, and convince Anthony for once and for all that they needed to leave their worlds behind.

‘Or the man who fell in love with the enemy, giving up his mission for glorious purpose because of a pair of pretty doe eyes.’

Pushing himself up and away from his chair, Loki paced the room, mind trying to think of a way out of this, to protect Anthony, find a way back to him while eliminating whatever threat this was to them both. If the TVA knew about the relationship, something Anthony had taken great pains to hide, then Loki needed to eliminate this threat.

‘What exactly is it that you want?’

‘I want you to be honest about why you do what you do,’ Mobius answered, still calm despite Loki’s growing agitation.

‘Liar!’ Loki called him out.

Even as Mobius gave a passionate speech back, something about wanting to understand him, Loki paid him no attention, gazing at the hideous orange panels on the wall, feeling the squeeze of the collar on his neck.

‘What makes Loki tick?’

The man reached out and tapped the orange ball on his desk, revealing more moments of Loki’s life, the invasion of New York, his shame, his weakness that he’d nearly harmed the one he…cared about in some misguided quest for glory, his true intentions warped by the Scepter.

He needed to get back to Anthony, to explain it hadn’t been him, that he had been beholden to some trick.

That he wasn’t the monster Anthony had needed to stop, led away by Thor in chains and a muzzle until an opportunity presented itself. Loki was forced to witness his shame again from an outsider’s perspective, the haze of blue in his eyes as he’d forced the Midgardians to bow before him.

Had Anthony known that wasn’t him, that he had been controlled? Why hadn’t Thor seen it?

‘I was... I am on the verge of acquiring everything I am owed, and when I do, it'll be because I did it. Not because it was supposed to happen, or because you or the Time Variance Authority, or whatever it is you call yourselves, allowed me to.’

That wasn’t quite the truth, what Loki truly wanted mingling with the aftereffects of the Mind Stone’s influence, his impatience to get back to Anthony and set things right overriding his rational mind.

Please don’t allow this to change your feelings for me. Please, beloved, please realize it was not me who acted.

‘Honestly, you're pathetic.’ Who was Loki speaking to, the TVA agent before him, or himself?

‘You're an irrelevance. A detour. A footnote to my ascent."

‘If you hadn't picked up the Tesseract, you would've been taken to a cell on Asgard.’

What sorcery is this?

‘What is this? This is nonsense, more tricks. This never even happened.’

‘Not to you, not yet. Look, the TVA doesn't just know your whole past, we know your whole life, how it's all meant to be. Think of it as comforting.’

All his thoughts, his arrogance, his plotting fled as he watched his mother die. For the first time in his life, he was speechless, his desperation making him babble.

‘Where is she?’

‘You lead them right to her,’ the man said, a hint of sympathy in his voice.

‘I don’t believe you. You’re lying. It’s not true.’

He couldn’t be responsible. This was a trick, it had to be a trick.

‘It is true. That's the proper flow of time and it happens again and again and again because it's supposed to, because it has to. The TVA makes sure of it.’

‘Where is she?’ Loki demanded.

What if they have Anthony locked up in his place too? What tricks are they playing on him?

‘Now why don't you tell me, do you enjoy hurting people?’ The man asked again, his voice increasing in volume, making Loki feel as though his chest was being squeezed with overwhelming pressure.

‘I don’t believe you,’ Loki paced in agitation.

‘Do you enjoy killing?’

‘I'll kill you,’ the words were hollow, and they both knew it.

‘Like you did your mother? Like how you attempted to kill Thanos and left your lover alone to sacrifice himself?’

His rage that had been steadily building the whole conversation suddenly dissipated, leaving him lightheaded at the swing between the two emotions, a cold fear now scrabbling up his throat, chasing away the burn of his anger.

‘What happened to Anthony?’

‘Who?’

‘Anthony! Tony Stark! What happens to him?’

‘Does it matter? I mean I know he was your secret lover, but he was an Avenger, an obstacle in your-’

‘Tell me!’ Loki screamed, feeling the furious tears burning his eyes, the onslaught of his emotions frightening him.

He’d shown his hand, exposed his feelings for the two he cherished. Loki had known this would happen, that emotions would make him fragile, defenseless. Now he had no way of saving either and had given the TVA what they needed to blackmail him.

‘You care for him that much?’ All the bluster and posturing from Mobius was gone, a genuine curiosity in his face as he watched Loki.

‘I love him,’ Loki admitted, words he’d never uttered to anyone, not even Anthony. ‘Please, I know you have no reason to trust me, that I’m everything you say I am, but please, let me see what happens to him.’

Sighing, Mobius reached into his pocket and pulled out a separate tape, revealing he held it all along. ‘Here…he was a great man, your Tony Stark. I’ve watched how you interact with everyone around you, your enemies, and the ones you pretended not to care for… it was hard not to be moved by Tony Stark.’

Loki wasn’t listening, trying to fumble with the machine, almost snapping his teeth at Mobius when he reached over to take the recording from him and set it up in the machine. He watched the film, waiting for the moment where Anthony’s life had twinned with his own, when Thor had first been banished and Loki had faced the man of iron for the first time.

Their secret meetings Loki initiated because he’d been intrigued by this morally gray Midgardian, their first kiss, their first tumble into bed. Loki treasured those moments, and now they felt tainted with Mobius’s scrutiny, his gaze leaving grubby fingerprints over their memories.

There were other moments, a future Loki still had to discover. The moment Loki finally confessed his feelings, the heartbreak of betrayal Anthony felt from Captain America (Loki threw the chair across the room at that). He watched as the Hulk creature passed on news of Loki’s death, the way Anthony’s sorrow hardened and was reborn as fury, the catalyst for why he launched himself into space after Thanos’s minions.

And then the end, the blaze of glory, standing alone and proud against the Titan, his beautiful mind destroyed under the effects of the Infinity Stones. Loki couldn’t breathe, his chest trying to move in short sharp pants, his teeth gritted against the pain.

No. Not like this.

He couldn’t see past the agony, couldn’t keep his heart beating with the vile poison of the truth. He could feel a hand on his back, a voice trying to call to him.

‘Please, let me go to him,’

‘Loki, I can’t-’

‘Please. You’ve brought me here for a reason. Whatever it is you want from me, I’ll do it without question. I won’t escape. I won’t betray you, whatever it is you want, but please…’ Loki trailed off, unable to speak past the emotions webbing in his throat.

‘In all my studies of you, I don’t think I’ve ever heard you beg, not sincerely anyway.’

‘You know my…my love for him to be true, that I would not jest about this. Please, Mobius, you have my word, my vow, just please… let me see him.’

‘Ten minutes, that’s all you get. No messing around with the timeline, no giving cryptic warnings. You do anything to divert the timeline Stark is in and I’ll send in a team to prune him and the branch you’ve created, understand?’

Loki didn’t know what pruning meant, but he made an educated guess it had to do with those glow sticks the TVA agents wore and the way they disintegrated the people they stabbed them with.

Nodding, he offered up his hands in a silent plea, sniffing back the tears. Mobius reached out to clasp his hands for a moment, before pointing towards a glowing doorway in the room.

‘Ten minutes and then I’m pulling you out.’

Anthony was asleep in his bed when Loki stepped through, and he rushed over to his bedside, crashing down to his knees as a wounded sound spilt from his lips.

‘You foolish, idiotic mortal, what were you thinking!’ he hissed, the words barely forming sound, not wanting to wake Anthony up or inadvertently cause his destruction. ‘I knew your self-righteousness would be the end of you, that you’d sacrifice yourself in some heroic deed.’ Loki brushed Anthony’s bangs back, leaning forward to press their foreheads together, trying to keep his tears at bay.

He glanced around the room, recognizing it as Anthony’s house in Malibu, no sight of the Avenger Tower. This had to be before New York, before his carnage of Anthony’s homeworld.

‘Lo?’ Anthony suddenly whispered, voice thick with sleep, hands sliding from the bed covers to reach for him. ‘You said…busy…’ he yawned, not entirely awake.

‘I know, dear one, but I made time.’ Loki slid into the bed beside him, taking care to rearrange himself so he could curl around Anthony, protecting him while trying to keep him asleep. He rested his ear directly over the arc reactor, his hand on Anthony’s chest. He could hear the thrum of energy beneath his ear, felt reassured by its continuous sound, knowing it was keeping his mortal alive.

He could feel Anthony’s heartbeat under his palm, never as strong as he liked it, but reassuring enough that Tony was here and alive.

‘I’m sorry. By the Norns, Anthony I am sorry.’

Anthony shifted in his sleep, hugging Loki close and kissing the top of his head.

‘Bad dream, honey?’ he whispered, still sleepy, but trying to comfort him.

‘Something like that. Go back to sleep, darling,’ Loki soothed, hiding the pain in his voice.

He knew what he’d promised Mobius, and his promise to help him stood, but Loki knew he’d twist the intentions of his help to suit his own purposes. He’d find a way to meet these Time-Keepers and bend them to his will. He wasn’t going to lose Anthony to Thanos, would save him from his fate and be together like they deserved.

For now, Loki focused on the sound of his heartbeat, the reassurance he was alive, committing the sound to memory for the next eight minutes.

[konigsfaerie]

Compass

Chapter One

Summary: Falling in love with two people isn't normal, but after fighting your way out of the TVA, you can't help but develop feelings for both Loki and Mobius. Hiding your emotions has never been your strong suit, and your resolve has been fading with each passing day you spend together at the compound.

Word count: 4,630

Loki looked across the common room to find Mobius rifling through papers, undoubtedly studying another timeline that would need to be fixed. Loki watched his hands turn the crisp pages, watched his index finger travel down to find a specific word.

He decided to break his gaze and clear his throat, shaking himself out of his daze. “Don’t you think we should take a break? We’ve been at this all day.”

Mobius looked up from the folder and raised a single eyebrow. “You mean I have been at this all day. You’ve been sitting there looking pretty while I have been isolating timelines we need to fix without so much as a lunch break.”

If not for his Frost Giant heritage, the blush on his face would be unmistakable. Suddenly words left him, so he decided to stare out of a window, his dark thoughts immediately returning.

He left who he used to be back in New York. The jealous god, the god who was angry at everything and couldn’t love anything simply out of fear. It seemed that all of the sudden there was too much love in his heart, the kind that made him feel the most guilty he had been in a long while.

Loki, Mobius, and you fighting through the TVA was no small feat, and even now there was no time to rest.

“Although I suppose we should check on y/n. She’s been cooped up in her office all day,” Mobius observed, pushing away from the desk and stretching his arms up. Loki noticed his torso as he stretched, the fabric revealing the slight V of his waist. There was that nonexistent blush again, the panging he felt in his chest.

“I’ll get her some food from the kitchen.” As Loki left for the kitchen, it was now your features that plagued his mind. Your soft skin, supple thighs, full cheeks, y/e/c. How could this be possible, to love two people at the same time? Just years before he would have destroyed an entire planet without thinking, and now every action he made, he’d run it over in his head before doing so just to make sure he didn’t say something wrong that could hurt yours or Mobius’ feelings. Although Mobius wasn’t exactly the most sensitive of the bunch, Loki cringed when he thought of all the terrible things he said to both you and Mobius when he first arrived at the TVA.

There were cooks of course, The Avengers Tower was huge with so many people coming in and out, but he wanted to make you food by his hand.

-

Your feelings for Mobius and Loki were… complicated at best. The passion you felt for Loki made your head dizzy, but the tender love you felt for Mobius made your heart ache. You ran a hand down your face, the guilt gathering up in the pit of your stomach again. How was this even possible? You loved them both, and while they probably didn’t even have a clue, you couldn’t imagine letting either one of them go. And if you lost both of them...

You heard a knock at your door, and you tried steeling your face into indifference again, but ultimately failed. “Come in!” Instead of indifference, you tried to look as happy as can be, providing a smile as bright as the stars.

As soon as you saw both of them come in at the same time, your face immediately fell. You tried to look away from their faces, your eyes pointing downward, pretending to do something you were working on before you were about to have a breakdown. You couldn’t actually be in control of your emotions when Mobius started acting all gentle and kind and Loki started a war of who could use the most sarcasm in one sentence. (Hint: He always won.)

“Is there something the two of you needed?”

Loki sat down in the chair in front of your desk, placing a covered dish in front of you, planting his feet on your desk, which he knew you absolutely hated.

“We can’t visit our favorite girl unannounced?” Mobius spoke, giving that little grin of his.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Favorite girl. Were you really… their favorite girl?

His excited smile faded. “Unless you’re busy… I don’t want to interrupt you.”

You slid a hand to Loki’s boots, roughly slapping his feet off the table and uncovering the dish. “No, I- Well, I guess I haven’t eaten all day.” Part of your job to create a new task force of Avengers to fix the timelines destroyed accompanied by Doctor Stephen Strange. He usually was in your office with you going over the candidates you thought would make a good addition to the team, but he was currently out convincing them to come back to the compound.

“Sorry. I should’ve brought food up to you a long time ago.”

Loki eyed you as you took your first bite into what had to be your favorite meal of all time. You started to shake your head at his comments, but instead you closed your eyes for a moment, letting a moan sneak past your lips. “This is so good! It tastes much better than what the cooks usually make for us. Who made this?” Usually it was all leafy green salads and juice the color of baby puke (doctor’s orders, and by doctor, you mean an overprotective philanthropist), but thank the gods, it was something actually cooked in oil.

“Loki cooked it for you,” Mobius said with a teasing smirk, but then his lips went into a pout. “While I eat this salad for the twentieth night in a row.”

A blush crept up on your nose and you giggled. “Guess I’m just that special.”

“Yes,” Loki remarked. “You are.” His eyes burned into your own.

The blush deepened into a shade of ruby red. Loki was always one for bluntness and didn’t always understand how humans communicated with each other. Yes, that was all it was. Just him reminding you how much he cared for you as a friend. The sentiment was new to him, after all.

You filled your face with more food, your eyes staring down so that you didn’t have to meet either of their pair of eyes. After finishing your food, you heard a bottle of alcohol thud on your desk. You laughed and gave a little shake of your head. “Don’t you know that the use of alcohol or other substances will hinder our training?” You mocked Tony, his strictness fueled by FRIDAY.

“Well,” Loki laughed. “I am not in training,” he continued, popping the cork off with his mouth. “Because I am already amazing.” He put the bottle to his lips and took two long swigs.

Both you and Mobius groaned, Mobius grabbing the neck of the bottle from him and doing the same. As he passed it to you, you thought that maybe this was a bad idea. You never really got too drunk unless you were “reveling” with Thor, but you were constantly afraid your feelings might slip out. One wrong look, and they might figure it out.

Mobius passed it to you, and you downed four long gulps. Maybe the alcohol would make you momentarily forget your feelings instead of bringing them to the surface. Immediately your head felt lighter as you passed it back to Loki, but instead of the smiles that were there before, two worried glances were presented on their faces.

Loki put the bottle down. “What’s wrong?” The concerned look on both of their faces made your heart thud in your chest. They really, actually cared about you. About what you thought, what you felt, if you ate, if there was too much on your plate. That was more than just being friends, right? When you were with them, you felt different. Lighter, safe, like nothing could really hurt you as long as you three were together.

“Nothing,” you defended, taking another bite of your food as the buzz you had started to ebb and flow. Trying to keep the tears springing from your eyes was no small task, but you couldn’t do this now, in front of them. You hated lying to them and you didn’t even know what excuse you could possibly make if tears started running down your cheeks.

But the truth was that you cried often. Late at night after hours of exhausting work, not only isolating timelines but trying to convince people with abilities to help your cause, usually wielding little to no results. After all that tiresome work, it wasn’t the universe or your collective impending doom you thought about; it was Mobius and Loki. How they take care of you, how it might feel to have Mobius’ lips on yours while Loki wraps his arms around you from behind and kisses your neck...

How long have you been looking at your empty plate without saying anything?

“Y/n? Sweetheart?” Mobius started, reaching for your hand across the desk which made Loki look at the pair of yours. Why did he call you that so often? Ever since coming to the TVA, even when it looked like he wanted to scream at Loki until he was hoarse, even when you joined forces with Loki and he couldn’t understand why in the world you would, he wanted to protect you. Both of them did.

It felt like your heart was just continually skipping beats. It was absolutely insane that one word was the thing that was finally going to undo you.

Sweetheart.

Our favorite girl.

Your eyes went back and forth between the two of their faces, your lip starting to wobble. Loki immediately got up from his chair in front of you, moving towards you and crouching down to your eye level. “What is it? What’s the matter, y/n?” His concerned blue eyes searched yours, his eyebrows knitting together in worry.

Mobius was hovering over you at your desk with that same look, waiting for your response.

There were lies you could tell, of course. I’m just tired. I miss my family. I want to piece this god-forsaken universe back together already. It was all true of course, but the real reason you lay awake at night with tears streaming down your face was because you were in love with the both of them and if you did anything about it, you’d lose them. And your heart could absolutely not handle that. They were everything to you.

You could only imagine it, which you did often. Their confused looks which would make you feel like the weirdest person on the planet, the neverending silence as they only talked to you about work. How could you possibly handle them not barging in on your space every night, not making you feel like the luckiest girl on the planet just to have friends like these?

Nevertheless, the tears came and the sobs started racking your body as they both came to your rescue, enveloping you in their arms, which only made you cry harder.

“Y/n-” Mobius started, but was cut short because of… that look you were giving him. The one that said everything, the one that also traveled to Loki. It was unmistakable. With them, you were an open book and your face were the words on the page.

Loki pulled away, but only to put a hand on your waist. Was he… giving you the same look? When you looked back over to Mobius, his hand was at your waist as well, his hand flying up to dry your tears. “Sweetheart,” he breathed.

As soon as your eyes fluttered, Mobius’ mouth was on yours, giving you the most tender kiss you had ever felt. His lips slightly pulled away as Loki’s finger hooked under your chin and his lips flew to yours. Back and forth you played this little game until your knees were threatening to buckle underneath your feet, both of them slightly rubbing your waist.

As you pulled back slightly, their lips finally pressed against each other. The kiss between them was more rough but just as loving.

You couldn’t believe this was happening. No, there was no way they felt the same things you did. Ever since spending time with the both of them in the TVA, the thoughts that plagued your mind were perhaps the darkest you ever felt. Not just because you knew without a shadow of a doubt whatever conclusion you came to you would get hurt, but because you might hurt them in any way. The love you felt for them didn’t seem natural, but it definitely felt it. But this…. They felt it too? Not only that, but they felt things for each other as well? For how long?

Suddenly you didn’t want to be cooped up in this office anymore so you grabbed both of their hands, locking their fingers with yours and started moving to the stairs that led to your room. As soon as you closed the door, Mobius was pushing you against it while Loki ran a finger down the length of your arm.

You didn’t need to say anything for now. Your faces said so much. Words might be necessary later, but now…

Loki nudged him over while his lips explored yours again and Mobius kissed your neck. A moan escaped your lips again, but this one wasn’t because of the pleasure of food, rather the pleasure of the two men controlling your every movement. Mobius’ hands were still pinning you to the door, and you couldn’t help it as your waist moved against Loki’s.

“Please,” you breathed. “I n-need-” God, it was hard for you to talk with Loki’s lips hovering over yours, the heat rising in you as you imagined all the marks Mobius was making on your neck, claiming you as his.

“What do you need, darling?” Loki whispered, moving to the other side of your neck. Mobius shoved his leg in between yours, your hips making quick work of him.

Apparently that was all the answer they needed. Mobius grabbed your waist, moving you to your bed as they both joined you and started on your neck again while Loki began slowly untying your top, testing to see if you were comfortable.

Usually you were shy around them, but you had enough of just fantasizing about them doing this. You would be perfectly happy if they decided to rip your clothes off and spread your legs.

“I’m tired of waiting,” Mobius snapped as if reading your mind, shoving your pants down as Loki threw your top onto the floor. They both beheld you in your matching lacy white bra and panties. They looked… hungry. Like they’d both been waiting for this, only now they realized all three of you wanted it just as much.

You swallowed as they stared into each other's eyes just a moment before taking each other’s shirts off. Even though you needed them to rip off all your underthings, you were nervous. They definitely had more experience than you, and Loki was a literal god who could get whatever or whomever he wanted.

As Mobius placed his lips onto yours again, his tongue teasing your own, you could feel Loki’s hands gripping your panties, sliding them down. He took in a breath, giving himself a moment to take you in. “You’re so beautiful,” he breathed, just before spreading you with two of his fingers.

“Mmm, fuck,” you moaned against Mobius’ lips, moving so that Loki had perfect access. All you wanted was his tongue on you, or even his fingers filling you up.

Okay, that’s not all you wanted, but it was a start. What you really wanted wasn’t just his fingers filling you up, but either - or both of their cock’s inside of you, hitting that one spot you really loved-

“Loki!” you gasped as his mouth connected with your clit, his finger easily sliding into you. You bucked against him, biting your own lip as Mobius slid down near Loki, giving him a kiss before removing his finger and sucking on it, tasting your juices. The look in their eyes when they looked at eachother - it was sending you over the edge already.

“Look at her, Loki,” Mobius observed. “She’s already wanting to cum on your mouth. Should we let her?” Was he teasing us? You were dripping at this point, coating his mouth with your juices, gripping the covers with your fists. The look in Loki’s eyes was feral as his tongue flicked over your clit and then swirled around it. The only answer he provided was a groan of pleasure from having his tongue play with your clit. He was waiting for permission.

“Not yet,” Mobius decided, grabbing a handful of Loki’s hair, pulling him back. Loki’s face was pure disappointment, which he soothed by licking his lips, tasting you again.

Loki moved towards you, his face hovering over yours. “You taste so good,” he whispered. “Do you want to taste yourself?”

You gave a nod, staring up at him and he gave you the most passionate kiss you’ve ever felt, his tongue enveloping yours. You sucked on it, moaning against his tongue as you savored yourself.

As you sucked on his tongue, you realized you were one-hundred percent more wet than you started off, and you couldn’t help but squirm as Mobius spread your legs ever father, his finger moving slowly up and down your clit. This was fucking agonizing. You didn’t want to be teased, you wanted them to take you right here on this bed.

“Good things come to those who wait, y/n.”

You stared at Mobius who was currently sliding a single finger into you excruciatingly slowly, a pleasured smile on his face, most likely because he knew how bad you wanted him, wanted the both of them to be inside of you.

“Please,” you begged as Loki started to unhook your bra, placing his mouth on your nipple. “I-I want-”

Mobius stopped pumping his finger in and out of you, joining Loki in playing with your nipples. “Yes y/n, tell me what you want and I may even give it to you.” Before you could speak, he slid his finger into your mouth which just made you buck your hips even more.

“Oh, is that what you want?” Suddenly, he grabbed Loki and started taking off the remainder of his clothes, finally sliding off his belt and undoing his pants, shoving them down with his underwear and exposing his cock. “Is this what you want? You need to be fucked?” You glanced at Mobius who was currently stroking Loki who tilted his back in pleasure. The sight was fucking angelic, and all you could do was speechlessly nod without abandon.

Loki was rock hard, probably from the moment he saw your glistening pussy. As you rose to your knees, you met his face as you pumped him with your hand, taking over from Mobius, exploring him. “Do you like that?” You wanted to edge him on. You wanted him to lose control, especially because you could see how much he was trying to contain himself. Mobius saw it too, which was part of the reason he was teasing the both of you so much. The other reason was because he wanted to see just how bad you wanted him.

No response, just another groan. You heard Mobius taking his pants off but was utterly focused on pleasuring Loki.

Suddenly you could feel Mobius’ cock against your ass, him coming behind you and feeling on your breasts. “Now tell Daddy exactly what you want.”

Fuck.

“Both of you. Inside of me.” You turned your head to look at him, biting your lip out of embarrassment.

Surprise lit his features. “Are you sure about that? I don’t want it to be too much for you… Yet.”

You nodded quickly. “I want both of you to fill me up.”

Mobius tore you away from Loki, pushing you face forward onto the bed, placing a hand on your stomach to prop your ass up. You took that as a clue to arch your back. “Good girl,” Loki remarked, moving you over momentarily to move under you. Loki started teasing you, placing his cock at your entrance.

“No, no more teasing,” you begged, letting out a little wine. “Please just… Please fuck me!”

“Isn’t she impatient, sweetie?” Mobius pondered, lubing himself up with something you didn’t recognize, then going to his fingers so he could stretch you out. From this angle, Mobius could control everything. He slid a finger into your ass which caused a moan to slip out. Honestly, this wasn’t a normal thing for you, but you had to have both of them. You didn’t want to wait or deny yourself any longer.

You bucked against his finger as he slid another one inside of you. It hurt a little, but in the best way possible. You could feel him stretching you out, taking his time, just as Loki rubbed himself against your clit. Loki’s little pants and quiet moans were only teasing you further, and even Mobius looked like he was losing his resolve to go slowly.

Words wouldn’t, or rather, couldn’t escape your mouth. You already felt so filled up with Mobius’ fingers pumping in and out of you, Loki threatening to slip inside of you. The feeling you felt was best described as… helpless. They were controlling your every move, how fast or slow you went, when or even if you would cum.

Mobius gave a look to Loki, silently giving him permission as he slowly slid his fingers out of you. “Are you ready, sweetheart?” Loki asked, his soft and wanting eyes staring up at you and pushing your hair behind your ear. “Would you like to feel me inside of you?”

“Y-Yes!” You leaned further onto him so that Mobius would have easier access to your ass and so that Loki could easily slip inside of you. His breathing turned ragged as the head of his cock teased your entrance, but you were tired of being teased. All those nights fantasizing about this, fantasizing about the looks they were giving you now. Never in a million years would you think they would want this too, but here they were, one under you and one on top, showing you how much they cared for you.

Even though Mobius wrapped his fingers around your hips, moving Loki’s legs slightly so he could have as much access to you as he needed, you slid onto Loki’s long shaft, sending shocks throughout your body. His grip tightened just as you could feel Mobius’ lubed cock slide into your ass.

Filled up is what you felt. You almost felt overwhelmed with it, but you could take it. You could take both of them as they started pumping in and out of you. You closed your eyes, almost feeling high, feeling like the universe was moving throughout your body.

Mobius couldn’t have possibly known your eyes were closed, but you felt one arm wrap around your waist as his fingers tightened in your hair. “Look at him pumping inside of you, y/n. Watch him fuck you.” His breath was ragged too as you moved between them, your hands tightening around Loki’s shoulders for purchase.

The moans coming out of you were loud, probably loud enough to wake the entire compound, but you didn’t care. They were stretching you out, filling you up entirely. You had never felt more loved than this exact moment. “Please-” you moaned. At this point, you weren’t sure what you were saying. You weren’t sure of anything, and you especially weren’t sure where you ended and Loki and Mobius began. “I don’t know if I can-” you started, pausing to look at Loki’s feral glance. You knew you were dripping with want, with need. You were wet, so wet, and so tight, and you loved the feeling of him inside of you. He was a god, and that almost all-powerful thing inside of him threatened to come out with every thrust, every new moan you made.

“What’s wrong?” Mobius asked, moving his hand from your hair to your chin, making you look at him. His eyes were almost glossed over, and he was still fighting his composure.

You shook your head, moving to buck back against him, which prompted him to move his hand back to your hair, controlling your every move, your every thrust. “I just don’t think I can-” Another shock rang throughout your body as they grew even more in sync with each other, picking up their pace. You felt totally dominated, and your mind was reeling from the fact that the two people you loved so much were fucking you into oblivion. The blush spread to your nose as you bit your lip. “I don’t think I can last long,” you moaned, rolling your head back momentarily as Mobius loosened his grip, kissing your soft lips.

Fuck, you saw stars. You were so close already, and his lips on yours didn’t help, his tongue exploring your own. His moans vibrated against your mouth as he grabbed a handful of your hair again, pushing you down to kiss Loki as he chuckled, some sadistic part of him enjoying seeing you on the edge. While you were usually so in control of everything around you, Mobius liked seeing you completely out of control, at his mercy.

Loki was close too. You could tell, because his grip was tightening even further on your waist, holding you completely in place while he slid in and out of you, his teeth gently pulling on your bottom lip. Through all three of your moans, you could hear the wet slap of his cock as he fucked you. He kept hitting that exact place you wanted him to, which made you cry out in pleasure. You were so glad they were both holding you, otherwise you didn’t think you could hold yourself up anymore.

Mobius’ hand moved from your hair to your throat, his grip tightening around you. Your eyes widened as any control you previously had completely disappeared along with your resolve to hold on. Your eyes squeezed shut for a moment as your pussy tightened around Loki’s cock, causing him to cry out in turn. Your eyes opened again, watching him shoot his cum inside of you. “Y/n!” He cried out your name as he reached for you, his hand tightening around your own.

“Fuck,” Mobius swore. Galaxies exploded inside of you as you gripped Loki’s other hand too, biting your lip as you felt Mobius shoot inside of your ass with a loud groan.

As your orgasm finally calmed, you felt the both of them slide out of you and let out an involuntary whimper. The feeling of being filled up, it was… everything. And now you felt empty. But as soon as they heard it, they came to your rescue, Loki turning over and pressing your face to his chest as Mobius laid down at your side, stroking your back and covering the three of you up.

“Better?” he whispered.

You nodded, moving your head to stare up at him, your lip wobbling a little. You felt completely exhausted, and the world felt like it was spinning around you, but as soon as you felt their arms tighten around you, you came back to Earth. He planted a small kiss on your lips, giving you a smile that made all dark thoughts completely disappear. You could see things in that smile, things that had been left unsaid.

“So much better,” you sighed.

[wrenhyperfixates]

Loki Series Thoughts—Glorious Purpose

Ok, I’m always nervous about posting my thoughts, but here we go. Spoilers ahead of course!!! (Disclaimer: Any gifs or images are not mine.)

Let’s start out with the episode’s name: Glorious Purpose. I know some people were a bit miffed about the emphasis put on the line, but I actually thought it worked well. It’s not so much that Loki actually believes in this “purpose,” but rather he is clinging to what he’s been told his purpose is. And by the end of the episode, he’s finally working through some of the things he’s been hurt by, abandoning what he’s been forced into and ready to be who he wants. Granted, it’s still going to take some time for him to come to grips with all that has happened, but I’m excited to see the journey.

The TVA. They undeniably suck. Whether or not it will be addressed directly, they are the (or one of the) antagonists in the show. What they are doing is, frankly, tyrannical. Three “time keepers” have taken it upon themselves to force countless versions of time and people into one single stream. And you know what? They can’t control that timeline. Not like they want to. As much as Loki’s line about “the weak” applies to himself, it applies to the TVA, too. It’s a facade of control that they cling to; if they truly had the right, the ability, to control time, everyone would follow their path. There would be no variants. Now, I could write a whole separate analysis on the MCU’s explanation of time travel. It’s convoluted and in a large way doesn’t make sense.

I’d like to talk about Loki’s characterization. I am, in a word, relieved. From the trailers, Tom seemed to be over-acting, something rather strange for someone so good at conveying deep emotions through nuanced actions. Now I believe any exaggerated lines from the trailers are just Loki trying to separate himself from who he’s been told he is, and trying to reinvent himself. I don’t think that’s a bad thing either; they’re not rewriting Loki, he’s just growing in a new way. And though this way is “new” I think it will be similar to what we’ve seen before. From what we’ve seen so far, there is good continuity, and they are addressing things about Loki that should be addressed in canon.

Loki projects. Most notably in the Avengers, but also a bit in Thor 1 and The Dark World, a lot of Loki’s lines can be applied to himself, though he is talking generally or towards another group. What comes to mind is actually something he touches upon again in the series. The illusion of freedom. And though it is not said that line in particular is him thinking of himself, it can be inferred based on his admission that the line in the gifs above apply to him. Also that little gesture when he says “weak” breaks me. He’s hurting so much.

Loki is not a villain. He may think he’s one because everyone else is telling him that, yet we’re already seeing it brought up that it’s not true. I can only hope that we’ll see Loki state this himself later in the series. He was largely forced to do what he did. It is not his fault, so how can he be a villain?

Loki cares. Tom’s acting is just *chef’s kiss* Seeing his mother’s death hurts so much. I love that his first response is denial. Loki is thrown into something he’s never known about before, being shown things that, to his knowledge, have never happened. But then when he’s had a few seconds to wander around the TVA on his own terms, he’s more come to grips with all that’s going on. So, when he’s by himself and see’s Frigga lying there, dead, it gets to him. Then seeing Odin still call him his son, he feels the slightest glimmer of hope, but also regret; he already knows in the back of his mind that he’s not actually going to get that. Loki’s living from second to second, trying to hold on. He probably thinks this ends with his death. (I do have issues with that Odin scene in context of Ragnarok but that’s more a tangential aside, so I’ll gloss over it for now.) Then seeing Thor and himself acting like brothers again is heartwarming. So just when he’s feeling uplifted, Thanos comes into the picture. He realizes how much control the titan still had over his life; he never really escaped. And in the end, Thanos made good on his promise. And that is terrifying! And he laughs at it. It’s a sad sort of laugh, one that’s slightly crazed. Loki feels that no matter what he does, it ends in pain. By the end of seeing all that, he is a man broken. Rather, more broken than he already was.

Loki is struggling. That’s nothing profound; it’s obvious. But where it really stands out to me is actually in a part I originally thought to be out of character. I am referring to “What if I was a robot and I didn’t know it.” Upon closer inspection, I realize it’s actually that his perception of himself has been so thrown that he really isn’t sure about his own chemical makeup anymore. Odin and Frigga keeping from him that he’s a frost giant made him so unsure of himself, he thought he might not even be a living being.

Nervous tics. Was I the only one noticing his leg bouncing when he talked to Mobius? And what about that scene when he’s sitting on the steps? He begins to pick at his hands. Note, that’s something he did in T1 after finding out he was a frost giant and while confessing to the Warriors Four about how he was the one who told the guard of their trip to Jotunheim. Just a little detail I really appreciated. (If anyone has gifs of any of these things, feel free to share :)

Mobius. I’ll be honest, I’m a bit undecided. I’m hesitant to say he’s evil. After all, we haven’t seen that much of him yet. However, I will say he is unscrupulous and manipulative. His questions weren’t to help Loki work through his trauma. Mobius was trying to goad him into helping, and likely was trying to gauge how much this Loki is like the variant he’s tracking. When Loki makes any admission of his feelings, it’s something he already knew, not a conclusion Mobius helped him reach. Mobius mocks him a bit and pushes his buttons because he sees Loki as a means to an end, and wants to know how easily he can get him to work with him. And what strikes me is how similar Mobius’s deal is to Thor’s deal in TDW. Thor doesn’t offer Loki freedom, he offers revenge. Mobius’s deal is just another variation of this. He can’t offer “salvation” but he can offer something “better”. Working for the TVA really isn’t better, though. So what does he mean? Well, I think he means a chance for Loki to prove he’s a hero. I hope as the show progresses it’s addressed that Loki doesn’t have to prove himself to anyone. That’s what he’s been doing his whole life, but I want Loki to see for himself that he doesn’t have to.

Miss Minutes. Propaganda. Plain and simple, it’s propaganda. Besides the way it praises the “time keepers” as amazing saviors, necessary to keep the world in order, it’s essentially saying “don’t think for yourself.” The whole point of the video is “the time keepers are great. The TVA is flawless. Trust us to decide everything. You have no autonomy in the world we want, so surrender your free will. Submit to the system we’ve decided is perfect and everything will be just fine.” Of course, by “just fine” they mean the variant will be pruned and the timeline will keep going as the time keepers see fit. The animation style was great though! It really fit.

The infinity stones. I think their inclusion makes sense. If you remember from Endgame, the stones being in the right place in the right time keeps the timeline from branching, and thus prevents the multiverse from being created. Likely, the time keepers used the stones to make their “sacred timeline.” Naturally, any variant time stones would cause a problem. That’s why they have so many extras. But think about how pointless so much of what happened seems. Nat, Gamora, Vision, Tony, everyone who was snapped, everyone who was left. So, literally the entire universe was flipped upside down for paperweights. It really puts Thanos’s pursuit of the stones into perspective, doesn’t it?

The cloaked figure. I think there’s some misdirection going on here in one way or another. Mobius says he’s chasing a Loki variant, then immediately it cuts to a scene with the cloaked figure. Our minds are likely to assume that is the variant then. But they don’t actually say it’s Loki, so I’m inclined to believe it’s not. Though, I don’t have enough information to say who I do think it is, I could make a couple of educated guesses and say Mephisto (he certainly interacted with Loki in the comics, plus there’s the stained glass window) or Sylvie. Well, whoever Sophia Di Martino’s character is. I know she was previously listed as Sylvie on sources such as IMDb, but that has since disappeared. But why would you have a “young Sylvie” (Cailey Fleming) without an older version? There is speculation Di Martino’s character will be Lady Loki, but I hope this won’t happen. If they make Lady Loki her own character, I doubt we’ll see Variant Loki get to be fluid. Even if it’s confirmed on the record, it’d be nice to see actually happen beyond a piece of paper. And with twist villains being such a prominent force in modern media, I’m interested to see who our cloaked friend really is.

Time travel. Like I said earlier, this is a lot. But I can’t talk about the episode and not mention this aspect in at least a little more depth. I don’t like how the MCU deals with time travel. I think it’s an unnecessarily complicated mix of a number of different, already complicated theories. However, I think Loki will ultimately escape from the TVA and create a multiverse too difficult to prune (and maybe he’ll actually get to burn the place down too!) This will then tie directly into Doctor Strange 2. Do you guys know what that’s called? The Multiverse of Madness. Actually, in the Miss Minutes propaganda, they almost exactly say “will throw the multiverse into madness.” Will we get to (finally!) see a certain raven-haired god meeting Dr. Strange? And maybe even the Scarlet Witch herself? Well, I’m not sure, but right now I think it’s looking pretty good!

And some random things that didn’t really anywhere else:

Peggy is in the background?! My thought here is that Steve wasn’t supposed to stay with her. This made not only a Variant Steve, but also a Variant Peggy. We may not see Steve, but I bet he’s been taken care of too!! And who knows? Maybe there will be a cameo later. Otherwise, it might be something that was cut from the show, or just a fun easter egg of sorts.

The score was so good! It sets the mood perfectly.

Loki is a good fighter. Even if he’s overpowered, he finds a way.

Some of the humor didn’t land, but that might just be a personal thing.

So now my final thoughts. It’s their strongest pilot yet. So much emotion crammed into less than an hour. A lot of exposition, too, yet it didn’t feel tedious (Endgame I’m looking at you). And then we get to delve into Loki’s psyche, something that really appeals to me! Overall, 9/10. I hope the rest of the series is as good!

Did I miss anything? Was there something you were hoping I’d mention and didn’t? Or do you have something to add or (politely!) disagree with? I’d love to hear it all! Remember, fandom is a safe space to talk about, analyze, and debate about things you enjoy. My ask box is always open with anon on. Reblogs and comments are great too. Thanks!

Me after watching the episode:

[i-dreamed-i-had-a-son]

Alright so I've seen a lot of opinions floating around and now it's time to add my two cents: the show's Loki is both similar to and distinct from the Loki we remember, and that is, or at least can be, a good thing

We have this idea of the "Loki we know," and we're frustrated that he's not being adapted faithfully--and to a degree, this is correct. Marvel very intentionally chose 2012 Loki as the version to resurrect, because that is when Loki was at the height of his popularity. By doing this, they could get the fanbase that Loki has always had to watch the show, while also avoiding much of the character distortion that came after TDW. A great idea! But then, instead of bringing this character into the show and authentically representing him, they smashed him up with Ragnarok Loki's portrayal. This was mostly done to engage general viewers and to maintain a slightly lighter tone, but both of these are mistakes: first of all, the general viewership has never been Loki's core, active fanbase. But I get it--you want to make money. The second, more egregious mistake, is that you absolutely could have kept a lighter tone with 2012's Loki, and then easily adapted him from there. At the end of Avengers, he's making jokes, and we see even more of these in Endgame. That's humor that's authentic to the character, and doesn't feel disrespectful like Ragnarok was. When we see the Ragnarok style of humor popping up, we immediately get defensive because of how that movie treated him, and we say, "This isn't the Loki we know." But the Loki we know is, to a degree...wrong.

This might seem a bit harsh at first, but I think the fandom as a whole is unwilling to let go of a slightly distorted version of Loki, and that's coloring the fan response to the show. Because we've spent so long with a character that has had relatively few instances of development or even screen time, we've become attached to the version of the character we think we know, sometimes without realizing that collective memory has shifted our perception of him slightly. We're unwilling to let the character change at all, even if at points this growth could be done well--and even if the character was faithfully adapted, he would be met with criticism because he wouldn't be "what we know"; he couldn't be, because we as a fandom created that character, over time and without really recognizing it. To a degree, that kind of misplaced criticism is mixing with the legitimate critiques of the series. It makes us unwilling to look at the good things that are present, even among the flaws.

As an example, let's talk about Loki as a planner, and how his actions in the series compare to those in the earlier movies. A common sentiment I've heard is that throughout episode two (and to a degree, episode one) Loki is just kind of going along with everything. He doesn't seem to have a plan, and this makes people uncomfortable, since the "Loki we know" was a great planner. Wasn't he?

Most of the basis for the "Loki we know," comes from Thor and Thor: the Dark World, so I'll be using those as my "proof texts," so to speak. In those two movies, we see plenty of examples of Loki making spur-of-the-moment decisions to take advantage of a situation; he's a very flexible, adaptable character by nature (as I've discussed before), so this makes sense. The trouble is, I think the fandom memory of Loki has shifted enough that we forget exactly why and how he makes these decisions, and how they turn out. In contrast to what those films actually show us, we tend to think of Loki as a very strategic character, who is too clever to be caught off-guard. That's not the case.

Loki, in those films, has very little grasp or consideration of the consequences of his actions, because his emotions cloud his judgement; because of this, his plans (which are created responsively), and even actions he does not plan, fall apart disastrously. In Thor, when Thor is banished from Asgard, Loki sees an opportunity to step into the role his brother had filled. Then he discovers he is actually Laufey's son, and in response to this news and Odin's falling into Odinsleep, Loki plans to double-cross Laufey and kill him to prove his loyalty, taking the throne in the interim. He does have a plan, but it's one that he developed rather spontaneously based on the circumstances--he didn't plan for Odin to fall asleep so that he could assume the throne, that just...happened, and Loki forms a plan to adapt to it. But when he hears that Thor is trying to return to Asgard, all of his insecurities, compounded by having just discovered that he's actually a Jotun, come back full force; desperate to keep the small bit of identity he thinks he's managed to find, Loki sends an Automaton to kill Thor--whom he loves, and has even said so several times in the film--and then tries to destroy the Bifrost to keep Thor from coming back. These are decisions Loki hasn't truly evaluated; if he had, he wouldn't have made them, because they don't line up with his actual goal, as we see when Thor arrives. When Thor confronts him, Loki essentially has a breakdown, admitting in tears that his real motivation for all of this was just to be considered Thor's equal. He didn't hate Thor, he didn't hate Odin, he didn't even want to be king--he just wanted to be loved as much as his brother. But along the way, his real goal was clouded by his emotional state, and he stopped thinking clearly, instead just lashing out in a desperate bid to protect himself from more pain.

We see something similar occur in Thor: TDW. When Loki sends the guards "up the stairs to the left," he's not thinking about who they might find--he's just lashing out because he's been abandoned by his family, and he wants to exert whatever influence he can over the situation. He wants to do something, especially if it causes problems for Odin and Thor, and he thinks the opportunity has just landed in his lap. He hardly planned for it, but he's not going to pass it up. So he takes it unhesitatingly--and his mother dies. (Coincidentally, after both his father's rejection and his mother's death, Loki nearly dies himself, and at least one of those instances was deliberate. Hmmm...Loki doesn't want to live with the consequences of his actions? It's too painful for him to face what he's done?? Hmm??? But that's beside the point.) Once again, Loki's goals are unclear, and things go wrong because he's just acting on emotion.

All this to say, for Loki, plans are very flexible things that are basically defined as "whatever works best to get what I want," so to say that Loki is just going along with things in the series, and is thus out-of-character, is a bit of an unfair criticism; despite our misremembering, he is, as he's always done, very much acting as a reactive planner. As I've spelled out before, when Loki is thrown into the new environment of the TVA, he immediately starts gathering information, and shaping his responses based off of what he finds. He takes the chances he has to feel things out (at the Renaissance fair, for example), but mostly he bides his time and actively observes until an opportunity arises. This is standard for him, but viewers haven't really been receptive to it, because it isn't what we're expecting.

Now, Loki claims to have a larger plan (something that we think we remember being common), but that's not actually the case. When speaking to Lady Loki/(Enchantress??), he says his ultimate goal is to overthrow the TVA--but he also framed his supposed overall plan as "get an audience with the Time Keepers" when speaking to Mobius. Neither of these are true. In order to more effectively manipulate others, he pretends to have large-scale motivations: with Lady Loki/Enchantress, he knows she will likely only respect him if he claims to have an endgame, since she so clearly does herself, so he manufactures one she likely wouldn't oppose. Mobius, on the other hand, would likely be suspicious without the red-herring Loki throws him; since Mobius believes Loki's trying to get an audience with the Time Keepers, he doesn't become suspicious about how quickly Loki becomes eager to catch the other variant, which would otherwise have been an appropriately huge red flag. But these are just misdirections, further things that Loki is doing to keep himself in the best position possible. That's why his claims of a grand plan (particularly to Lady Loki/Enchantress) sound sudden or unrealistic: they are. But because we think we remember Loki being someone who would have a larger plan, we aren't able to see that he doesn't need to.

This time, unlike in Thor and TDW, Loki's immediate goals are clear: escape the TVA. Be free. Despite Mobius' attempts to get him into a hyper-emotional, and thus, less careful, state of mind, Loki keeps his wits about him. He's intentional with his decisions. He's not lashing out. For once, he's aware of and considers the consequences of his actions--we see him weighing the options as he stands in front of the portal--and he makes the right decisions because his goal is clear in his mind. And this makes all the difference. Loki plays the game expertly, and for the first time, he wins--he escapes.

And I think this is an excellent development, one that deserves more appreciation than we're giving it. It's a good thing that he's not behaving how we think we remember him, as some master planner--that would be being unfaithful to his character. Loki isn't the same as Lady Loki/Enchantress. He doesn't have a grand plan. He just, finally, knows what he really wants. That shows growth, and that is the kind of change we have to want to see, and be willing to accept; so in that regard, it's even good that this Loki is different than he actually was. The Loki we see in Thor and TDW is a highly emotional, and very broken, character, who reacts to his environment often without thinking of the potential consequences; the Loki we're being shown here is still emotional, still clearly affected by what he's gone through, but is now able--or is now being allowed!--to demonstrate his actual capabilities. He ACTUALLY GETS WHAT HE WANTS. That's the first time that's happened, the first time his attempts to protect himself or outsmart someone have actually ended in success instead of disaster. And that's exactly what you should do with a character.

Now, a valid quibble with Loki's characterization is that these things are not obvious, and that is a very legitimate criticism. It's hard to see that Loki is manipulating Mobius by pretending to be helpful, because the show seems to be framing it in a way that encourages us to take Loki at face value. Loki's behavior is an intentional obfuscation, but it can be hard to realize that if it seems like that's what the show is telling us Loki really is. Personally, I justify this by saying that the show is showing us Loki as he wants to be perceived--when Loki is bluffing in episode one, he seems cartoonish and over the top, but certainly nothing like he actually is, and this is what he intends. When he seems too jovial and trusting in episode two, that's because that's what he's presenting to Mobius. It's about whether we buy into the act as much as the other characters do--which is why Loki's most in-character scenes come when he's alone. When he has no one to perform for, he stops performing for us, too, and we see the genuine presentation. But, I could be wrong--maybe this isn't intentional at all. Maybe the writers really are just trying to revamp a character from 2012 and are doing it clumsily, and that's why he seems out of character in moments like those. It's too early to say, and honestly, we may never be sure.

But there are real, valid, and undeniable moments of positive development, the likes of which Loki has never had the space to experience before. They are present if you are willing to look--but they are much less obvious to people who don't want to see them. I agree, they are hard to see, and if I'm being honest, I haven't loved the show anywhere near as much as I would have liked to so far. But I think the fandom as a whole is so caught up in this idea of the "Loki we know" that they don't see the Loki we have for what he is--people are too attached to a misremembering of Loki's previous actions to realize that the change in his behavior isn't a regression or a flaw in his writing but a sign of growth. We're too attached to his brokenness and weakness to let him become strong.

We are defensive about Loki's character because of how it's been mishandled in the past, but if you actually look, you'll find that there is actually a lot of good in what we're being given. I'd agree that the show has to get better about making that obvious if it wants to succeed. But I think some of the harsh criticism the show has been receiving is unwarranted. It might not be perfect, and some of these decisions on the parts of the writers might not be intentional, but Loki has always been a character we've had to think about in order to understand him. Just like this show, there is much good about him beneath the surface. And for as much trouble as it causes sometimes--I'm glad that isn't changing.

[mimisempai]

I am not drunk, I am intoxicated of you

Summary:

Loki, delighted by Mobius' behavior the last time he was drunk, tries to reproduce the same situation, but Mobius is not fooled. In this game of hide and seek, it is impossible to say who will win...

Notes:

Mobius and Loki, were as usual extremely undisciplined and did not go at all in the direction I wanted, but in the end it's perfect as is. I'll let you be the judge.PS : sorry for the extreme dose of fluff and sap, but that's what I needed today...

https://archiveofourown.org/works/33229249

1290 words - Rating G

"Another!"

Mobius jumped at the sound of the beer glass exploding on the floor.

This was definitely an Asgardian custom he would never get used to.

While he had only drunk a quarter of his glass of beer, Thor and Loki were probably on their fourth and both were in an advanced state of inebriation.

Mobius had seen through the attempt by Loki to get him drunk.

He was aware that Loki had greatly appreciated the way Mobius had behaved the last time he was drunk after partying with Thor.

But this time he knew the effect of Asgardian alcohol and had no intention of falling for it.

"Mobius!" Thor called out to him after grabbing Loki's hand, "I agree that you may marry Loki!"

Mobius ran his hand over his face, it seemed that this was the subject that worried Thor the most as his not-so-subtle hints revolved around his relationship with Loki.

Loki pulled his hand from Thor's and with a voice clouded by alcohol, he stammered, "I don't care about your approval, Mobius is already my fiancé!

Huh? First news!

Mobius couldn't stop his heart from beating a little faster at the thought.

Before Thor could protest theatrically, Mobius stood up, "Okay you two, I'm going to bed, have fun." For the sake of his sanity, it was best if he walked away for a while.

"No, I'm the one who's leaving, I'm tired." Thor drained his last beer in one gulp, stood up and as he was about to leave the room, turned and looked at Mobius and Loki with an eye that was meant to be suggestive, "And no fooling around guys!"

Mobius rolled his eyes.

He hadn't seen that Loki had approached.

Without warning, he found himself with a Loki astride him who had taken his left hand. He intertwined his fingers with those of Mobius and turning his hand in all directions, he stopped to stare at a point.

"Loki?"

Loki whispered, "It looks so good on you..."

Mobius, having no idea what he was talking about asked, "What?"

"Well your ring, your engagement ring."

Mobius blinked and asked again, « What?"

Loki looked sulky, and looked him straight in the eye, "Your engagement ring, a white gold ring, encrusted with small emeralds."

"Ahem, but Loki I don't have a ring."

"But come on Mobius, I had it made for you, and I put a spell on it, only you and I can see it!"

Seeing that Loki looked so sure of himself and that in the drunken state he was in, he would not be able to convince him, so he played along.

"And so I take it that you have one too?

"Loki looked up to the sky and exclaimed, "Mobius, have you lost your memory or what?  Of course I have one too! Look!"

Mobius smiled and brought the hand in question to his lips before gently kissing the finger in question.

Loki looked at him in awe and said in a trembling voice, "You know, Mobius? It's... it's the kind of life I always dreamed of having but didn't dare imagine or expect because I firmly believed that the future didn't hold such a thing for me. You're everything I always wanted but didn't know I needed." he leaned down to press a kiss to Mobius' forehead, "You know I went through a lot before I met you and I was a mess.It's... it's the kind of life I always dreamed of having but didn't dare imagine or expect because I firmly believed that the future didn't hold such a thing for me. You're everything I always wanted but didn't know I needed."

He leaned down to place a kiss on Mobius' forehead, "I don't know... you know I went through a lot before I met you and I was a mess. But you were able to see further through me than anyone else."

Mobius wondered if it was the alcohol that made Loki talk, that made him open up like that, but he couldn't not answer, so he whispered, "I didn't do anything more than what you deserved, I gave you the love you deserved. And I don't know what you'll remember tomorrow when you're sober, but if you've forgotten, I'll tell you again, I'll be proud to be called your husband."

Loki's response was immediate and nonverbal as he captured Mobius' lips in a passionate kiss.

When they parted to catch their breath and Mobius saw Loki's flushed cheeks, his soft, emotional smile, his green eyes that shone like the purest emerald, he could hardly believe that it was all true, that it was all his. He pressed a tender kiss on Loki's lips, tasting their sweetness, the light fragrance of alcohol and...

"That's not the kind I wanted!"

He had just forgotten that Loki wasn't completely sober and was snapped out of his romantic reverie by a pouty Loki again.

"Ah, and what exactly did my prince want?"

"Well, first of all, it's not supposed to be that short. Secondly, where are your hands? Usually they're in my hair or around my waist, or..."

Secondly, where are your hands? Usually they're in my hair or around my waist, or..."

"Cheeky brat!"

Mobius chuckled before actually carding his hands into Loki's hair as he hungrily pushed his mouth on his, and gave Loki what he wanted.

From the way he moaned into the kiss, Mobius must have succeeded.

He pulled back a little and took Loki's lower lip between his teeth and tugged a little, which caused his lover to moan again and open his mouth to invite him in. Mobius didn't hesitate and tasted every inch of the tempting mouth, brushing his teeth from time to time as they greedily devoured each other.

They were both out of breath, but neither seemed to want to stop, so they continued like this for a while, until finally Mobius stepped back and asked Loki with a teasing smile, "So is this what you wanted?"

Loki, who looked strangely much less drunk, leaned over to Mobius and whispered in his ear, "I'm not sure yet, will you show me one more time?"

"Little snake! How likely is it that you are actually drunk? Hm Sweetheart?"

Loki smiled shamelessly, "I don't know, but maybe you should look at your left hand again..."

Mobius' heart leapt in his chest as he felt something cold slide down his finger.

He raised his hand to eye level and was surprised to see a white gold ring embedded with small emeralds the color of Loki's eyes, just as his lover had told him.

"Loki... does this... mean... uh... that..."

"Have I managed to mute the legendary agent Mobius?"" asked Loki in a gently mocking tone before taking the hand in question and kissing the finger in the same way Mobius had kissed his just before.

Then looking up from Mobius' hand, Loki said softly, "I know I called it an engagement ring, but it can be whatever you want, I just wanted a sign that you are mine and I am yours. No obligation. I know I'm doing this rather-"

Mobius, who had come to his senses, pressed his lips on Loki's and silenced him in the way he knew best before pulling back and saying tenderly, "I only agree to wear it if you wear one too."

Loki laughed and showed him his hand.

Mobius leaned in and took a closer look.

The ring was similar to Mobius', except that instead of emeralds, there were small M's engraved on it.

Their engagement rings, commitment rings, whatever they would call them, were like them, original, different, complementary and indivisible.

A sign of their love.

_______

Series of Oneshot : Together, for all time, always

As always, bear with me as it is not beta'd and english is not my native language I hope you enjoyed it nonetheless🥰

[delyth88]

Loki episode 5 rewatch

It’s been a busy week so it wasn’t until yesterday that I had a chance to watch Episode 5 again. And I was a little worried I might not like it as much as I did on first watch, but thankfully I did still find a lot to like about this episode.

Spoilers below...

Firstly, I think it’s taken this long, but I’ve finally gotten used to this new variant of our Loki. To this overly emotive, sweetly stupid at times, often bewildered version of the character.  Let me be clear, he is absolutely not being presented in the same was at the first three films, Infinity War, or even Ragnarok. But I’m finding him easier to watch now that I have no hopes or expectations that he will be the Loki I was hoping we’d get to see again.  Sure, I’m sad they didn’t give us a continuation of the Loki we’re grown to love, but this guy seems to be starting to find his feet, and I’m curious to see what his potential is now.

I was again struck by the increased sense of purpose (no pun intended) of this episode.  It seems to be going places more so than previous episodes were. And again I loved the opening sequence and the music as we travel through the TVA and then out into the Void. It did make me wonder whether the destroyed city was actually a version of the timeline where Loki/Thanos win the Battle of New York, and that’s as far as the significance of that set goes.  My hunch is that we won’t see that long shot of Loki from the trailers in post-apocalyptic New York. They opted for the mirror of the Avengers scene instead as the way Loki finds himself in this place.

I laughed at Loki’s little rant this time too. Particularly the line “plus an alligator, that I’m heartbroken to report I didn’t even find all that strange!”.  In fact there were a few moment when I felt we were getting a little bit of Loki’s old humour. Such as, his “Delightful.” In response to kid Loki talking about cannibalistic pirates, “This is a nightmare.” and “Don’t die isn’t a plan, it’s a general demand of living”.

I do wonder though if this is just about comparison with the other Lokis?  Like they’re all so very much more on the extreme end of comical that it makes our Loki seem the straight guy in comparison? *shrug*

After several days I am still taken by Old Loki and his story.  And on watching it again I was able to appreciate the little moments leading up to his fighting Alioth. He gives the impression of being just so Over It and his crazy comics outfit also directs the audience away from how much he actually cares.  For example he is really quite upset at Lokis in general and presumably also himself after the betrayal by Boastful Loki. He says “We cannot change. We’re broken. Every version of us. Forever.”

And he seems quite affected by Mobius’ offhand comment that “it’s never too late to change”.

And then that look back towards Loki and Sylvie as Alioth approaches.

Gah! This is the kind of thing I wanted for our Loki.  I don’t have the right words to describe it, but it’s partly the back story, partly the change of heart, partly the stakes, the emotional depth. I’m really quite sad that we won’t see more of him.  :( 

@scintillatingshortgirl19​ you asked me what I thought of Loki’s response when Sylvie asks, “How do I know that in the final moments you won’t betray me?”

“Listen Sylvie, I…” Loki pauses and takes a deep breath “I betrayed everyone who ever loved me.  My father, my brother, my home.  I know what I did, and I know why I did it. And that’s not who I am anymore. Okay? I won’t let you down.”

To be honest on my first watch I think I just let it slide over me as yet another one of those lines where they keep telling us what we’re supposed to think of Loki (whether it’s true or not).  I think Episode 4 might have broken me – I didn’t even blink an eyelid.  I think I’ve just heard so many people saying things that I think are absolutely wrong about Loki that I’m just… used to it now?  I dunno. Maybe it was just my mood, or the fact that there were enough other things I enjoyed in the episode that I could ignore it.

But since you pointed it out I’ve been thinking about it and after my rewatch I kinda think Loki has been a little bit influenced by recent events and conversations.  He’s just watched with embarrassment several different versions of himself strike bargains and then betray each other, in such an extreme example of this behaviour that it seemed absurdly comic. Boastful Loki even says “I betrayed you, and now I’m king.” And as they leave the Loki fight behind Old Loki says “We lie and we cheat! We cut the throats of every person who trusts us! And for what! Power!”  So I can kinda see why betrayal is on his mind.  

And perhaps this is something he’s been thinking about for a while now.  Since he tried to strike a bargain with Sylvie before he even really knew her. Old Loki ask if Loki trusts Sylvie and he says” “She’s the only one [of the Loki variants] I do trust! “

But I guess the way I interpreted it is not just literal betrayal like he just watched with the other Loki variants, but also letting people down. Letting himself down. In this context betraying his father would be the events of Thor 1 where he betrays his father’s trust by letting the frost giants into the weapons vault (I think he’s talking about Odin here, not Laufey), and then by not being able to be a good king in the eyes of his father or even his own standards while Odin was in the Odinsleep.  I don’t think he would be thinking of the moment where he lets Laufey into Odin’s chamber because he always intended to betray Laufey and save Odin. Although maybe he feels guilt for that too, in terms of lying to his father.  In regards to his brother, I’d consider any of the times Loki is acting against his brother’s interests, in a serious way such as the times that he was evading and fighting against Thor in Avengers, or when he sent the Destroyer in Thor 1 as betrayals of a sort, and the frost giants at the coronation again. And in regards to his ‘home’ I assume from his perspective this is again about the coronation and the events that led to the destruction of the Bifrost and as far as he’s aware war with Jotunhiem.  Perhaps he’s thinking of the moment when Odin says to Thor “... you are unworthy of the loved ones you have betrayed!” Potentially he’s also thinking of Ragnarok and his actions in causing it after what he read in his file in the TVA. Personally I think he knows it was necessary but still feels a ton of guilt about being the one to actually do it. In this case it’s a betrayal in action but not in heart.

So I think he’s kinda focusing on the guilt he feels. And I think this is why he feels it could extend to Frigga, although he doesn’t mention it I think we as the audience are meant to assume it.  But again, this is in terms of the guilt he feels at a future version of himself inadvertently causing Frigga’s death – as he’s heard this story second-hand from Mobius. You know how if you start feeling bad about something it’s very easy to expand that to a whole bunch of other things you’ve done?  These are the times he feels guilty for his actions in hindsight.

I also think he’s kinda lumping a bunch of things together under the umbrella of the wording of the question that Sylvie has asked.  I think if she’d used a different word he would have echoed that back to her too.

I also think he starts of with “Listen Sylvie, I..” because he was about to defend himself, refuse to acknowledge that he would do such a thing and minimise it, by saying some version of “I would never do that”.  But he catches himself and takes the opposite approach of laying all his faults out plain. Admitting in a slightly exaggerated way that he has betrayed people in the past and he knows it, which he considers is more likely to be believed, and that he won’t betray Sylvie because he’s changed since then.

So I don’t know if I really have a conclusion to draw from this, but I think Loki is exaggerating out of guilt. 

But this is also one of those lines that where the character is telling us not showing us.  Which seems to have started in Ragnarok and is being continued in this series. It’s frustrating, I don’t like it, but it seems this is what they do now.  :/

***

So, it’s taken me a whole ‘nother day to get to finish writing this, and I’ve realised that this is the first episode in a while that has been on my mind since I watched it.  I’m actually invested again! Which I was very much not after Episode 4.

This episode had another piece of Loki’s story, in the form of Old Loki, and that was wonderful, and tragic.  And we’re starting to get somewhere with the plot now.  

And unlike in previous episodes where it looked like they’d left hints of things to come but that turned out not to be the case, I actually feel like we might get payoff for all those comments about Loki’s magic.  Probably not in a way I’d prefer, but at this point I’ll take any sort of change that gives Loki a bit more control over his life.

I’m also feeling again like this story matters.  With episodes 3 and 4 I wasn’t really feeling it.  I hope I’m not too disappointed. lol

I still don’t like the romance, but having resigned myself to the fact this is what they’re doing last week I was better able to watch this.  The fact that Sylvie is as utterly incompetent at personal relationships as our Loki does make it more tolerable to me, and if I take it as some weird AU (which lets be fair is exactly what this is) it is kinda cute. In a way I like that they’re both late 30s/early 40s in appearance, not teens or twenty-somethings. It adds this extra layer to their awkwardness and I think brings home how weird tit is that these thousand year old beings don’t know how to be friends if you can do the mental jumps required to believe this in the first place. I still want it to be platonic or at least not taken any further.  I will gag if they kiss in the finale. 

[scintillatingshortgirl19]

Episode 4 Rewatch Thoughts

So first of all, I would definitely say that I have...calmed down a considerable amount since my first watch, so to speak. @delyth88 said some things in her rewatch post about being able to adapt to things and enjoy the episode more the second time due to knowing what's coming rather than having to deal with the uncertainty - which I how I feel about it as well and is a trend I experienced with episodes 1-2 as well, and in some ways episode 3. Once I had a chance to recover a bit from the narcissist thing and the romance thing, it turned out there were a lot of things I really liked! The big issues I had haven’t gone away by any means, and honestly a couple of the biggest ones aren’t even things that specifically happened in this episode - the first is just the gradual realization I’m having that I don’t think they are ever going to properly address Loki’s past trauma, and all those plot points the MCU just dropped are probably forever going to stay that way. And that fucking sucks, there’s no reason it had to be like this, and I don’t see how I could ever not be upset about that or truly get over it. The other thing is that it’s just incredibly frustrating and sad to me that all those theories about Loki having some kind of other plan in episode 3 to explain the bizarre incompetence we saw, or payoff for the weirdness that was the TemPad breaking scene, literally just amounted to nothing. All these things I hoped were intentional subtext turned out to just be nothing more than...bad writing? So yeah, I’m pretty disappointed about that. But at this point I’m trying to enjoy the series for what it is as much as I can, and on the second watch I really did enjoy a lot about this episode. So yeah, long-ass intro aside, here are my (hopefully more coherent this time) thoughts about episode 4:

Damn, that scene with Sylvie as a child really highlights how inhumane and barbaric the TVA is. Seeing her in that little prison uniform was...oof. Not that we didn’t already know the TVA was terrible, but I appreciate that they’re making it unmistakably clear for the general audience.

It's genuinely a good thing that they're going into Sylvie's trauma, and it's important to the plot, but I can't even put into words how frustrating it is to see them do that while simultaneously refusing to address Loki's. (you know, the protagonist?)

"Kind of an asshole and a bad friend" LMAO Mobius the TVA was holding Loki captive and was eventually going to kill him, can you really blame the guy for trying to escape?? Also an additional episode establishing that friendship would have been good - as much as I'm glad they consider each other friends, it felt premature for either of them to use that word yet.

I have mixed feelings about the Sif scene - overall I like it, but I do have some issues:

Pros: 

-   Loki whump! Both physical and emotional! (I want to see Loki win but I also like whump. It's complicated. Also I'm confused about where exactly she kneed him? Everyone is saying crotch but the first time he's holding his inner thigh so I thought it was there? Anyway if it is the crotch I'm not a huge fan of that particular decision, but my general feelings about whump still stand.) 

-    Lots of sad Loki faces, talking about fear of being alone - good stuff!

Cons: 

-    The first of the dreaded "narcissist" mentions

-    It’s kind of odd that he never even tried fighting back?

-    This also could have been an opportunity to acknowledge Loki's trauma, and as usual, they did not take it. I would have maybe liked a scene where Odin was being a dick to Loki and we got an acknowledgement of some of the emotional abuse. They probably could've worked Loki's fear of being alone into just about any memory. Did it really have to be a scene about how Loki's in the wrong? And in itself I have no issue with Loki facing the mistakes he's made! But I've been waiting 10 goddamn years for just one character or even a single solitary line of dialogue to acknowledge that Loki was wronged too, and by all appearances it still isn't going to happen and I'm just fucking tired.

And about the narcissist thing - it's frustrating because if they would just do it right, it could actually be really good?? If an element of the story was Loki (and Mobius) thinking he was a narcissist and then realizing he actually isn't, that would be amazing. The problem is, I'm fairly certain they are not going to go that route. I feel like it'll be more along the lines of "yeah you're a narcissist but you can be Good!" instead of acknowledging that Loki was never a fucking narcissist in the first place. Tbh it makes sense that both Loki and Mobius might think Loki's a narcissist, or throw around the term without knowing what they’re talking about - there are great explanations and meta about that - the real problem for me is that, in the eyes of the general audience, it confirmed a harmful and unfortunately very popular misconception about Loki, and it also perpetuates an incorrect view of what a narcissist is. Those are the main reasons I'm mad about it; if they purposefully, explicitly contradict it later it'll probably be fine! I just really don't think they're going to.

Tbh, after the second watch I'm a lot less mad about the shitty things Mobius said while interrogating Loki - it still hurt to hear and I'd still love an apology, but from Mobius' perspective it honestly makes sense that he wouldn't pull any punches considering he thinks Loki is partially responsible for killing the minutemen and Hunter C-20, and is trying to bring down the TVA.

I do still think Mobius turning on the TVA felt rushed. I'm delighted he got there, and the way he realized things made sense - it just happened unrealistically fast. I felt like a lot of things were rushed, and honestly I think more things will probably feel rushed in these last two episodes as well. This is something I felt with The Falcon and the Winter Soldier too - like they needed at least eight if not more episodes to give proper space for the story and character arcs they were trying to squeeze in. Six episodes just isn't enough.

Although, that said, while I still think this episode had weird pacing it didn't really bother me that much on the second watch? Probably because I already knew what the sequence of events was going to be.

The scene when Mobius was pruned was amazing - I loved Loki's emotions, and the way he walks down the hallway still kind of crying but mostly just looking utterly dead inside? *chef's kiss*

The timekeepers scene still felt off to me, and I still can't really articulate why. It honestly doesn't matter that much to me so I don't want to waste time on it, but I guess it just felt...sort of low-budget? Like we already knew the timekeepers probably weren't real/weren't what they seemed, but did they have to look that obviously fake? Idk.

I'm going to make a separate post about the romance stuff, but basically where I’m at with it is: it's a terrible shame to see such beautiful platonic/sibling energy go to waste, I'm real annoyed about it but trying to make peace with it for my own sanity, and I think there are a million clues pointing to it not actually being romantic but I don't trust that any of those were intentional. So I guess we'll see? 

I'm very intrigued by all the Loki variants. Also I'm curious if Mobius is there as well, or if each variant person has their own world? Either way I'll be shocked if Mobius is actually dead (there's a million reasons for that but the main ones are that it's likely pruning doesn't actually kill any of the variants (not just the Loki ones) and anyway he's supposed to be in 5 episodes). I'm really curious about the variant world in general though and I wonder what exactly the dangers are - why Loki "will be [dead]" if he doesn't come with the other Lokis.

[thesaltofcarthage]

Loki takes over: Tom Hiddleston on his new TV series and a decade in the MCU

from Entertainment Weekly

Ten years after Hiddleston first chose chaos in Thor, Marvel’s fan favorite God of Mischief is going even bigger with his time-bending Disney+ show.

By Chancellor Agard May 20, 2021 

Tom Hiddleston is Loki, and he is burdened with glorious purpose: After playing Thor's puckish brother for over a decade in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, no one understands the mercurial Asgardian God of Mischief as well as the actor. He can teach an entire seminar on Loki if given the opportunity — which he actually did during pre-production on his forthcoming Disney+ show. In conversation, Hiddleston quotes lines from his MCU debut, 2011's Thor, almost verbatim, and will playfully correct you if you mistakenly refer to Asgard's Rainbow Bridge as the Bifrost, which is the portal that connects Loki and Thor's homeworld to the Nine Realms, including Midgard, a.k.a. Earth. "Well, the Bifrost technically is the energy that runs through the bridge," he says with a smile. "But nine points to Gryffindor!" And when he shows up to the photo shoot for this very digital cover, he hops on a call with our photo editor to pitch ways the concept could be even more Loki, like incorporating the flourish the trickster does whenever magically conjuring something. The lasting impression is that playing Loki isn't just a paycheck.

"Rather than ownership, it's a sense of responsibility I feel to give my best every time and do the best I can because I feel so grateful to be a part of what Marvel Studios has created," the 40-year-old Brit tells EW over Zoom a few days after the shoot and a week out from Thor's 10th anniversary. "I just want to make sure I've honored that responsibility with the best that I can give and the most care and thought and energy."

After appearing in three Thor movies and three Avengers, Hiddleston is bringing that passion to his first solo Marvel project, Loki, the House of Ideas' third Disney+ series following the sitcom pastiche WandaVision and the topical The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Led by head writer Michael Waldron (Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Heels), the six-episode drama sees Hiddleston's shapeshifting agent of chaos step out from behind his brother's shadow and into the spotlight for a timey-wimey, sci-fi adventure that aims to get to the bottom of who Loki really is. "I wanted to explore slightly more complex character questions," says Waldron. "It's not just good versus bad. Is anybody all good? Is anybody all bad? What makes a hero, a hero? A villain, a villain?"  

Even though Loki — who loves sowing mayhem with his illusion magic and shapeshifting, all with a major chip on his shoulder — has never been one for introspection, the idea of building an entire show around him was a no-brainer for Marvel. When asked why Loki was one of the studio's first Disney+ shows, Marvel president Kevin Feige replies matter-of-factly, "More Hiddleston, more Loki." First introduced as Thor's (Chris Hemsworth) envious brother in Kenneth Branagh's Thor, Loki went full Big Bad in 2012's The Avengers. That film cemented the impish rogue as one of the shared universe's fan favorites, thanks to Hiddleston's ability to make him deliciously villainous yet charismatic and, most importantly, empathetic. The character's popularity is one of the reasons he's managed to avoid death many times.

"He's been around for thousands of years. He had all sorts of adventures," says Feige. "Wanting to fill in the blanks and see much more of Loki's story [was] the initial desire [for the series]."

The Loki we meet on the show is not the one who fought the Avengers in 2012 and evolved into an antihero in Thor: The Dark World and Thor: Ragnarok before meeting his demise at the hands of the mad titan Thanos (Josh Brolin) in 2018's Avengers: Infinity War. Instead, we'll be following a Loki from a branched timeline (a variant, if you will) after he stole the Tesseract following his thwarted New York invasion and escaped S.H.I.E.L.D. custody during the time heist featured in Avengers: Endgame. In other words, this Loki hasn't gone through any sort of redemption arc. He's still the charming yet petulant god who firmly believes he's destined to rule and has never gotten his due.

Premiering June 9, Loki begins with the Time Variance Authority — a bureaucratic organization tasked with safeguarding the proper flow of time — arresting the Loki Variant seen in Endgame because they want his help fixing all of the timeline problems he caused while on the run with the Tesseract. So there will be time travel, and a lot more of it than in Endgame. As Loki makes his way through his own procedural, he'll match wits with new characters including Owen Wilson's Agent Mobius, a brilliant TVA analyst, and Gugu Mbatha-Raw's Judge Renslayer. The question in early episodes is whether Loki will help them or take over.

"One of the things Kevin Feige led on was, 'I think we should find a way of exploring the parts of Loki that are independent of his relationship with Thor,' or see him in a duality or in relationship with others, which I thought was very exciting," says Hiddleston, who also serves as an executive producer on the show. "So the Odinson saga, that trilogy of films, still has its integrity, and we don't have to reopen it and retell it."

Yet, in order to understand where Loki is going, it's important to see where he came from.

Hiddleston can't believe how long he and Loki have been connected. "I've been playing this character for 11 years," he says. "Which is the first time I have said that sentence, I realize, and it [blows] my mind. I don't know what percentage that is exactly of my 40 years of being alive, but it's substantial."

His time as Loki actually goes a bit further back, to 2009 — a year after Robert Downey Jr. big banged the MCU into existence with Iron Man — when he auditioned for Thor. It's no secret that Hiddleston initially went in for the role of the titular God of Thunder, but Feige and director Kenneth Branagh thought his natural charm and flexibility as an actor made him better suited for the movie's damaged antagonist. "Tom gave you an impression that he could be ready for anything, performance-wise," says Branagh, who had previously worked with him on a West End revival of Checkov's Ivanov and the BBC series Wallander. "Tom has a wild imagination, so does Loki. He's got a mischievous sense of humor and he was ready to play. It felt like he had a star personality, but he was a team player."

Hiddleston fully immersed himself in the character. Outside of studying Loki's history in the Marvel Comics, he also researched how Loki and the Trickster God archetype appeared across mythology and different cultures. "He understood that he was already in something special [and] it was a special character in a special part of that early moment in the life of the Marvel universe where [he] also needed to step up in other ways," says Branagh, who was impressed by the emotional depth Hiddleston brought to the part, especially when it came to how isolated Loki felt in the Asgardian royal family.  

There was a lot riding on that first Thor feature. For one, no one knew if audiences would immediately latch onto a Shakespearean superhero movie partially set on an alien planet populated by the Norse Gods of legend. Second, it was integral to Feige's plans for the shared universe. Loki was supposed to be the main villain in The Avengers, which would not only mirror how Earth's mightiest heroes joined forces in 1963's Avengers #1 but also give Thor a believable reason for teaming up with Iron Man, Captain America (Chris Evans), and the rest of the capes. Feige first clued Hiddleston into those larger plans when the actor was in L.A. before Thor started shooting.

"I was like, 'Excuse me?' Because he was already three, four steps ahead," says Hiddleston. "That took me a few minutes to process, because I didn't quite realize how it just suddenly had a scope. And being cast as Loki, I realized, was a very significant moment for me in my life, and was going to remain. The creative journey was going to be so exciting."

Hiddleston relished the opportunity to go full villain in Avengers, like in the scene where Loki ordered a crowd to kneel before him outside a German opera house: "It's the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation," says the Machiavellian god. "The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life's joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel."

"I just knew that in the structure of that film, I had to lean into his role as a pure antagonist," Hiddleston recalls. "What I always found curious and complex about the way Loki is written in Avengers, is that his status as an antagonist comes from the same well of not belonging and being marginalized and isolated in the first Thor film. Loki now knows he has no place in Asgard."

Loki did find a place within the audience's hearts, though. Feige was "all in" on Hiddleston as his Loki from the beginning, but even he couldn't predict how much fans would love him. Feige recalls the reaction at the 2013 San Diego Comic-Con: "Did we know that after he was the villain in two movies, he would be bringing thousands of people to their feet in Hall H, in costume, chanting his name? No, that was above and beyond the plan that we were hoping for and dreaming of." It was a dream Feige first got an inkling of a year earlier during the Avengers press tour when a Russian fan slipped past security, snuck into Mark Ruffalo's car, and asked the Hulk actor to give Hiddleston a piece of fan art she created. "That was one of the early signs there was much more happening with this quote-unquote villain."  

Despite that popularity, the plan was to kill Loki off in 2013's Thor: The Dark World, but the studio reversed course after test audiences refused to believe he actually died fighting the Dark Elves. Alas, he couldn't out-illusion death forever. After returning in Taika Waititi's colorful and idiosyncratic Thor: Ragnarok, Hiddleston's character perished for real in the opening moments of Infinity War. In typical Loki fashion, before Thanos crushed his windpipe, he delivered a defiant speech that indicated he'd finally made peace with the anger he felt toward his family.  

"It felt very, very final, and I thought, 'Okay, that's it. This is Loki's final bow and a conclusive end to the Odinson saga,'" says Hiddleston, who shot that well-earned death scene in 2017.  

But, though he didn't know it yet, the actor's MCU story was far from over.

When Hiddleston returned to film two scenes in Avengers: Endgame in 2017, he had no idea where Loki portaled off to after snatching the Tesseract. "Where'd he go? When does he go? How does he get there? These are all questions I remember asking on the day, and then not being given any answers," Hiddleston recalls. To be fair, it's likely the Powers That Be didn't necessarily have answers then. While Feige can't exactly recall when the writers' room for Endgame first devised Loki's escape sequence, he does know that setting up a future show wasn't the primary goal — because a Loki series wasn't on the horizon just yet.

"[That scene] was really more of a wrinkle so that one of the missions that the Avengers went on in Endgame could get screwed up and not go well, which is what required Cap and Tony to go further back in time to the '70s," says Feige. Soon after that, though, former Disney CEO Bob Iger approached Feige about producing content for the studio's forthcoming streaming service. "I think the notion that we had left this hanging loose end with Loki gave us the in for what a Loki series could be. So by the time [Endgame] came out, we did know where it was going."

As for Hiddleston, he didn't find out about the plans for a Loki show until spring 2018, a few weeks before Infinity War hit theaters. "I probably should not have been surprised, but I was," says the actor. "But only because Infinity War had felt so final."

Nevertheless, Hiddleston was excited about returning for his show. He was eager to explore Loki's powers, especially the shapeshifting, and what it meant that this disruptive figure still managed to find a seat beside the gods in mythology. "I love this idea [of] Loki's chaotic energy somehow being something we need. Even though, for all sorts of reasons, you don't know whether you can trust him. You don't know whether he's going to betray you. You don't why he's doing what he's doing," says Hiddleston. "If he's shapeshifting so often, does he even know who he is? And is he even interested in understanding who he is? Underneath all those masks, underneath the charm and the wit, which is kind of a defense anyway, does Loki have an authentic self? Is he introspective enough or brave enough to find out? I think all of those ideas are all in the series — ideas about identity, ideas about self-knowledge, self-acceptance, and the difficulty of it."

“The series will explore Loki's powers in a way they have not yet been explored, which is very, very exciting.”

The thing that truly sold Hiddleston on the show was Marvel's decision to include the Time Variance Authority, a move he describes as "the best idea that anybody had pertaining to the series." Feige and Loki executive producer Stephen Broussard had hoped to find a place for the TVA — an organization that debuted in 1986's Thor #372 and has appeared in She-Hulk and Fantastic Four stories — in the MCU for years, but the right opportunity never presented itself until Loki came along. "Putting Loki into his own procedural series became the eureka moment for the show," says Feige.  

The TVA's perspective on time and reality also tied into the themes that Waldron, Loki's head writer, was hoping to explore. "Loki is a character that's always reckoning with his own identity, and the TVA, by virtue of what they do, is uniquely suited to hold up a mirror to Loki and make him really confront who he is and who he was supposed to be," says Waldron. Hiddleston adds: "[That] was very exciting because in the other films, there was always something about Loki that was very controlled. He seemed to know exactly what the cards in his hand were and how he was going to play them…. And Loki versus the TVA is Loki out of control immediately, and in an environment in which he's completely behind the pace, out of his comfort zone, destabilized, and acting out."

To truly dig into who Loki is, the creative team had to learn from the man who knows him best: Hiddleston. "I got him to do a thing called Loki School when we first started," says director Kate Herron. "I asked him to basically talk through his 10 years of the MCU — from costumes to stunts, to emotionally how he felt in each movie. It was fantastic."

Hiddleston got something out of the Loki school, too. Owen Wilson both attended the class and interviewed Hiddleston afterward so that he could better understand Loki, as his character Mobius is supposed to be an expert on him. During their conversation, Wilson pointedly asked Hiddleston what he loved about playing the character.

"And I said, 'I think it's because he has so much range,'" says Hiddleston. "I remember saying this to him: 'On the 88 keys on the piano, he can play the twinkly light keys at the top. He can keep it witty and light, and he's the God of Mischief, but he can also go down to the other side and play the heavy keys. And he can play some really profound chords down there, which are about grief and betrayal and loss and heartbreak and jealousy and pride.'" Hiddleston recalls Wilson being moved by the description: "He said, 'I think I might say that in the show.' And it was such a brilliant insight for me into how open Owen is as an artist and a performer.'"

Everyone involved is particularly excited for audiences to see Hiddleston and Wilson's on-screen chemistry. "Mobius is not unlike Owen Wilson in that he's sort of nonplussed by the MCU," says Feige. "[Loki] is used to getting a reaction out of people, whether it's his brother or his father, or the other Avengers. He likes to be very flamboyant and theatrical. Mobius doesn't give him the reaction he's looking for. That leads to a very unique relationship that Loki's not used to."

As for the rest of the series, we know that Loki will be jumping around time and reality, but the creative team isn't keen on revealing when and where. "Every episode, we tried to take inspiration from different things," says Waldron, citing Blade Runner's noir aesthetic as one example.

"Part of the fun of the multiverse and playing with time is seeing other versions of characters, and other versions of the titular character in particular," says Feige, who also declined to confirm if Loki ties into Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and/or other upcoming projects.

Making Loki was especially meaningful to Hiddleston because they shot most of it during the pandemic, in late 2020. "It will remain one of the absolute most intense, most rewarding experiences of my life," he says. "It's a series about time, and the value of time, and what time is worth, and I suppose what the experience of being alive is worth. And I don't quite know yet, and maybe I don't have perspective on it, if all the thinking and the reflecting that we did during the lockdown ended up in the series. But in some way, it must have because everything we make is a snapshot of where we were in our lives at that time."

While it remains to be seen what the future holds for Loki beyond this initial season, Hiddleston isn't preparing to put the character to bed yet. "I'm open to everything," he says. "I have said goodbye to the character. I've said hello to the character. I said goodbye to the character [again]. I've learned not to make assumptions, I suppose. I'm just grateful that I'm still here, and there are still new roads to explore."

Additional reporting by Jessica Derschowitz

[peacemakersbeloved]

Glorius Purpose {Mobius M Mobius}

Angst!Reader Insert

*Loki*

⚠️!!WARNING!! MENTIONS OF DEATH, WAR, PTSD, TORTURE AND BLOOD!!⚠️

Angst... that's it.

《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》《》

You weren't even exactly sure what you did wrong. One second, you were in Wakanda, standing over Thanos' dead body and the next, you were being dragged away by uniformed officers and forced into a weird bureauratic building where you were deemed guilty of time crimes.

Now, you were sitting in a weird interrogation room, across from a strange man whom you'd never seen before.

"So, how's it going?" He asked you.

"Well, I started off today by watching my best friend get murdered in front of me by a mad titan before the space ship I was on blew up. Then I found an odd rag-tag group of space heroes with a talking raccoon and sentient teenage tree, who decided to join Thor and I on our journey.

Thor and I had new weapons wielded for us and went to Wakanda where many others were fighting the the aforementioned mad titan and his army of mindless lackeys. I reunited with Natasha, which I couldn't even really appreciate because we were in the middle of a battle. And then-"

"And then you killed the mad titan," Mobius interrupted.

"It needed to be done," you stated.

Mobius opened up your file, quickly read through it then looked back up at you.

"Deity of War, huh? That's an impressive title to have but not an easy one, I imagine."

"Well, there have been tough moments," you shrugged.

"It says here that you have been in every single war that has ever existed. And you have the ability to see how each one will end," Mobius began.

You tensed up, knowing exactly where he was going with this.

"You knew how the battle in Wakanda was going to end. You knew Thanos was going to snap and you would lose half of the universe. You knew that that was the way it had to be done and yet you stopped it."

"I had a good reason," you defended.

"And what about those other wars and battles you attended? Did you not have a good enough reason for those?" Mobius asked.

"Shut up," you ordered.

"Or did you just not bother because those lives were insignificant and barely meant anything to a literal Deity of War? A being that is responsible for some of the worst atrocities and tragedies of humankind. Or maybe it's the fact that none of those people meant anything to you?" he carried on.

"You don't know anything about me," you retaliated.

"Oh, I think I know quite a lot,"  Mobius responded smugly. "You see, here we have tapes of every single moment of your life. Let's go through some of them, shall we?"

Mobius then pressed a button on the projector that was between you two.

"Ah, World War one, remember that?" he asked as footage of you being surrounded by dying soldiers played.

You were seen running away to hide behind a boulder and curling into a ball.

"My favourite part is when you run away and leave everyone else to fight a war that you caused," he told you. "If you listen close enough, you can almost hear the others calling out for you."

Your hands began shaking. You've tried burying this memory so many times but you could never escape it. You could never escape any of them.

"Moving on to the next World War, you know, the second one? How did you do in that one again?" he asked rhetorically before switching to the next video.

You were sobbing over the body of your now dead teammate, mourning his loss when one of your fellow soldiers came up behind you. In a moment of panic, you immediately began shooting and only stopped when you saw him laying in a pool of his own blood.

"Yikes, that doesn't look too good for you," Mobius said.

"I didn't know it was him. I was scared, I thought... I didn't... if I did, I wouldn't have..." you tried but you couldn't bring yourself to complete the sentences.

"You knew it was going to end this way and yet you did nothing. You did nothing until it you who could have faced possible danger. And do you know why? Because you are a self-centered, selfish, self-serving..."

"No," you whispered while tears streamed down your face.

"Deity on a constant power trip who doesn't give a damn about human life. You are just like your mother," Mobius told you.

"No!" you screamed. "Don't you dare compare me to that woman! My mother was an evil, tyrant who dictated every aspect of my people's life and ruled the kindgom with hate. She despised me because I was nothing like her. Because people loved me and hated her. So she cursed me as a final gift before finally dying.

She forced this burden upon me. She made me this thing and made it so that every single war or battle that happens, I am there. All of them, multiple different versions of me happening simultaneously but me nonetheless. The fear that was coursing through my veins when the enemy drew nearer? I felt that. The pain that burned through me as I held my fellow soldiers' dead bodies? That was real.

All of them were granted the sweet release of death but I wasn't. I was alive through it all. The explosions, the gunshots, the bombs, the physical, mental and emotional torture. I lived through it all. I see and hear it all when I close my eyes and when it's too quiet around me.

I haven't slept in years because every time I do, I end up screaming myself awake with all of the memories ingrained into my brain. I didn't choose this, it was forced upon me. So don't you dare say I don't care about human life because I do! I care about every innocent life that Thanos was about to destroy and that's why I did what did.

I had the chance to stop an intergalactic crime against life and I took it. So you can shame, bully and criticize me all you want but I do not regret my decision and I never will," you finished.

Mobius stared at you blankly before giving a half-hearted smile.

"Well, I hope it was worth it because now you're stuck here forever and you're never leaving," he told you.

He stood, collected your file and headed towards the door.

"It was," you nodded. "I might not be around anymore but at least the entire universe can rest easy, knowing that their loved ones are there to stay."

He stopped before leaving and turned around to face you.

"Oh, you didn't hear? That timeline doesn't exist anymore. Your little stunt caused everyone to lose their life and their universe."

Your heart dropped down into your stomach.

"What?" you asked.

"I'll be back to check on you later," Mobius said before walking out.

"Wait, Mobius! Come back! What are you talking about?" you asked while running to the door but it was locked.

You began banging on it with all your might while screaming at the top of your lungs.

"What are you talking about? Mobius! Mobius, come back here! Please!"

[valkyrieandstrangeridingaragorn]

Wow I couldn't disagree more with you on this and I believe the main problem is that at one point in your text you say "his self-esteem is gone" and you think that's a good thing because it brings change.

There's a huge difference between letting go of your pride and letting go of your self-esteem.

There's a part of Mobius' session with Loki that I like. I like that Mobius is ruthless, he shows footage of the NYC invasion and Loki can't even bring himself to look at the screen because it's hard for him, which is exactly the reason it was there - he has to confront what he's done and what his actions have caused. No empathy, no nothing. What he did was awful, he gets called out on it. Cool by me.

The problem comes when Mobius tells him he led the dark elves to Frigga, then stops the footage so that the image of her, lying on the floor dead, is right there in front of Loki. First, because it's a lie (he didn't lead anyone to her, he lead Kursed to the shield room). And second for these two things:

- Loki: "I'll kill you" - Mobius: "What, like you did your mother?",

- "You weren't born to be king, Loki, you were born to cause pain and suffering and death. That's how it is, that's how it was, that how it'll be. All so that others can achieve the best version of themselves"

Those two lines are not therapy. Those two lines don't lead to redemption. The first line is a lie, the second is emotional abuse. Now, if you think the only way you can get a fictional character who has done villainous things in the past to look inwards and see why they behaved that way is by abusing them then... well, we're on different wavelengths.

Mobius was getting answers out of Loki during the first part of the session. Had he continued like that I wouldn't have minded it. But the second part is unjustifiable.

You claim throughout the show Loki changes and finds good coping mechanisms. The main problem with this is you link losing your self-esteem, admitting blame for everything (not only your actions but others' as well), ignoring the trauma and the reasons behind your actions and going straight into self-hate mode, to redemption.

You think having Loki kneeling and calling himself a narcissist and a bad person and weak and a villain is a good thing and means he has changed... but that's not true. That's not how therapy works, that's not how someone overcomes their trauma and insecurities and learns to move forward with their lives to become something better. This is how a traumatized person behaves: those around him belittle him or lie to him (or beat him), he kneels down and calls himself the worst things he can come up with - there's nothing learned, his ego and pride are gone, yes... so is his self-esteem.

And someone who doesn't love themselves can never be redeemed.

You think the only way a character can accept responsibility and accountability for their actions is by being abused by the supposedly 'good guys'? And the TVA are the right people to do this? People who kidnap little girls, prune people and entire realities, lie to their own workers and mess with their minds to turn them into slaves... have the moral ground in the show? Holy shit.

This isn't about responsibility and accountability and I swear so many people have no idea how to handle morally grey characters. This is about a character who was a villain in the past, who would need to be called out on his shit, who would need to face his actions and why not, apologize for them... and would also need to have his own issues addressed in a show that's supposedly about him.

You know what a real redemption arc does? Explain. Not justify no, explain. Touch on those issues and explain them, tell me why he did what he did, tell me why he felt the need to do it, why he thought it was right for him to do it, why he didn't stop as he was doing it... I don't want a damn justification for NYC, I want his past to be addressed, his insecurities to be talked about (instead of mocked), his past to be brought back, I want the audience to understand Loki without having to justify him.

What I don't want is episode after episode of Loki kneeling and calling himself all the bad words he can come up with then read fans call that change and improvement.

This post is going to be fandom-critical and Loki series-appreciative, so get out and block/unfollow/whatever while you can if that's not your cup of tea.

There is a trend in many fandoms of characters who are in opposition to the hero (villains, antiheroes etc) that is critical of the "redemption through death" scenario. The latest that comes to mind is Star Wars, but there are countless examples. The typical in-story narrative is that the villain had committed too many crimes and there is no place for him in the new world where the heroes won, so he's killed off - usually not by heroes but by tragic circumstances that allow him some positive light before the end (Loki in Thor2, Ben Solo in SW). Fans of the character argue that a fully realised, slow redemption would be an awesome storyline, and that it'd be both interesting and refreshing to look at the life post wrongdoing.

So far, no mainstream media has ever done a fully realised, psychologically grounded redemption storyline. Hollywood go-to idea to rehabilitate the villain is to make the villain useful to the heroes and ultimately just "forget" about the initial transgression. The initial bad deed is never looked back on, addressed or analysed except maybe as a funny oneliner. Because addressing shit is hard... And also because, as Loki series has shown us, the fandom doesn't really want to see the true psychologically grounded redemption storyline.

For the Loki series is exactly this: the first time a character must face uncomfortable truths about themselves, to better themselves. This is a process that isn't nice. It's a beatdown after a beatdown. It's humiliating, soul-destroying, there is much kneeling and grovelling and unflattering names. The character isn't shown as pretty and composed, he isn't allowed to wear nice clothes that give him a feeling of power. He feels useless, powerless and messes up a lot, for his self esteem is gone. He doesn't strut around showing off magic feats and yes, almost everyone around him is shown in better light. Because that's what a true redemption storyline is like. It's a deconstruction of the ego. Eventually, it will lead to a stronger and better sense of self, but first we must crawl on the floor. And the fans, who usually overidentify with the character and his background, just cannot take seeing him, and by extension themselves, in that light.

So what does the fandom do?

1) Insist that Loki does not need a redemption storyline. Because he was tortured by Thanos (this is fanon), because he was influenced by scepter (this is still mostly fanon but has a bit more substance), because he was emotionally abused by Odin (this is almost canon). Now before you crucify me - these are my favourite fanons, my go-to fanfiction, I adore them all. But. There is absolutely nothing incorrect or malicious with the Loki series going "You know what? Loki still carved out that eyeball, and I am not going to sit here and "address" the fact that Odin emotionally neglected him, because that's already been shown and is in the past. I am going to postulate that Loki, deep in his core, is ashamed of himself for his deeds, and that bringing up Odin isn't going to solve that shame, and explore how Loki can move forward from there. The story isn't not going to be about Odin or Thanos, who are both gone and dead, it's going to be about Loki -who is the one who gets to live with the consequences."

2) Insist that the series hates Loki and was written specifically to humiliate him. This ties back to my thesis that the fandom simply does not want to see what a true psychological work of a redemption storyline looks like, for the ego beatdown is the essential part of it. This is how the story of Ben Solo would have had to look like, had he survived Star Wars. This is how Thor 2 would have looked like, had we been following Loki and not Thor: Loki being chained by the same soldiers he commanded, being stripped of his armour, being led down the rainbow bridge and into the palace. In that movie, it would have been worse because he had personal history with all these people. In the series he gets TVA's indifferent approach, which should incidentally be easier to swallow.

3) Insist that Loki is not the protagonist of his own series. Apart from this not making an ounce of sense, this reading comes from the idea that only physical deeds are valid storytelling material. Sylvie is stronger than Loki, hence she's the protagonist. Mobius is in the position of power, hence he is more important than Loki. All the while Loki is out there, doing enormous self-work, changing by the hour and showcasing more stable coping techniques. But he's not glamorous while doing it and he's kneeling a lot, so it cannot be that the writers actually like him and wish him to do well in the long run.

4) Insist that the new Loki is OOC and give him a plain, insulting new nickname to differentiate him from the beloved and cool old Loki. The one who liberated eyeballs while clad in impeccable clothes because he was terrified of Thanos. Or the one whose non-existent coping mechanisms almost made him kill his own beloved brother in despair. The one who had plans upon plans and was always so ready for betrayal that he had no friends on his own. The one who would surely glamour awesome clothes onto himself to avoid signalling any weakness. The one who was incredibly high strung and could never allow any weakness. You guys want that Loki back? Ok, that's fair. That guy was deeply damaged, and very interesting to watch. But then, a story that takes these aspects from him (and make no mistake, all of them are maladaptive and trauma induced - all -of - them) isn't hating on Loki, or making him dumb, or exists to hurt you personally. It allows him to overcome his internal hurdles, lower his defences and eventually arrive to a better place.

So here I rest my thesis: actual well written redemption stories, of which Loki is the frigging first (and how groundbreaking is that) aren't really wanted by the fandom. Most fans would rather whitewash or cocoon themselves in the trauma aspect, leaving the actual responsibility and consequences out of it. Which is fine as a comping mechanism, fiction is escapism after all, you're all perfectly valid... But there should at least be enough self-awareness to differentiate between a good story that's uncomfortable/too heavy for you and a bad story with evil writers who either have no idea about Loki or specifically want to punish his fans.

The Loki series isn't the latter. It might not be the fantasy escapism most would have preferred, but it has a very specific and respectable goal and it's going about it in a grounded way which is - actually - fully respecting of Loki as a person. I swear that the series sees him as more capable of doing the work he needs to do than his own fans.

[mimisempai]

There's always a calm before the storm

Summary:

Mobius is extremely frustrated because they have to wait to go catch the Variant in 2050 Alabama. Loki decides that this time it's his turn to take care of Mobius.

I'm still exploring their relationship as I await the next episode. Think of it as a little interlude before they leave for Alabama.

https://archiveofourown.org/works/32095750

1646 words - rating G

Mobius was frustrated.

For whatever reason, logistical, administrative, they would not be able to leave to catch the variant in Alabama for another twenty-four hours. He didn't even listen to Revonna's explanation until the end and left her office, furious.

Loki, sitting in the corner of Mobius' open desk, was watching him with amusement.

He had noticed that Mobius was generally very controlled in his emotions, but there were two emotions that made him act unpredictably.

Joy and anger.

Loki blushed as he remembered how he had been on the receiving end of these unpredictable reactions, whether it was when he had pissed Mobius off in the elevator or just now when Mobius had been happy to finally have a solution thanks to Loki.

Unconsciously Loki brought his hand to his lips, as he wondered if he would be able to elicit a similar reaction now that Mobius was frustrated again.

A little embarrassed at where his thoughts were leading him when it was not time for jokes, Loki coughed discreetly.

"Time Variance, Time Keepers, Sacred fucking Timeline... for fuck's sake, they're the masters of time, and we have to wait to catch the fucking Variant! "Mobius, pissed off, kicked his desk, causing his precious jet ski magazine to fall to the floor without him noticing.

He continued to pace around the office, railing a thousand times against all those who he thought were preventing him from doing his job.

Loki stood up, picked up the magazine and looked at Mobius fondly.

There was something strangely charming about the man, though Loki couldn't quite figure out what it was. But there was no denying that something about Mobius drew Loki to him like a moth to a flame.

Loki was both curious and cautious. Something compelled him to expose himself to Mobius more than he had with anyone else.However, while the feeling was incredible, Loki also knew that rarely had anything good happened when he had allowed himself to trust.

Either way, this wasn't the time, and unless Loki tried to hit Mobius with the magazine like he had done with Miss Minutes, Mobius wasn't going to stop circling until they got the approval they needed.

Loki thought that maybe this time he was the one who could do something for Mobius.

He called him several times, but Mobius was so consumed with anger that he did not hear Loki.

So he tried another way, "Mo!"

Mobius stopped immediately, only the slight flush on the tops of his ears betraying his embarrassment.

"Mo? Loki, I'll have you know that my name is Mobius! Not Mo, Mobi, Bibi or any other such idea that comes to mind. Okay?"

Loki smiled with indulgence before replying, "That had the merit of getting your attention at least."

Mobius grumbled before snapping at Loki, "What is it that deserves my attention?"

Loki turned to him, spreading his arms in the manner of Loki when he was acting out.

"Lokiii...." sighed Mobius, "I don't have the time or the heart for this."

It was Loki's turn to be annoyed, but he didn't show it, after all the short time he'd been there, he had surely frustrated Mobius more than his share.

"Mobius, please sit down." said Loki softly as he turned Mobius' desk chair towards him.

Mobius let out a sigh of annoyance, but sat down nonetheless.

Good boy, Loki thought as he stood behind him. Then he asked Mobius, "Do you mind if I touch you?"

Mobius put his head back to look at Loki and said with a sigh, "Lokiii we said we would continue this later."

Loki gave him a small flick on the forehead, before replying with a slightly annoyed tone and eyes raised to the sky, " You idiot, I just want to help you relax.I'm probably not going to try anything while it's an open desk, even if there's no one else there but us."Then handing him the magazine, he added, "Here, flip through your magazine and admire your famous Jetskis."

Then handing him the magazine, he added, "Here, flip through your magazine and admire your famous Jetskis."

Mobius bowed his head and with a sigh gave his consent.

Loki began to massage his shoulders, looking for any strain to relieve.

Mobius grunted in response, "Hmmm Loki, where did a god learn to massage like that? I would have thought you were more of a massage receiver than a massage giver."

"Thank you!I thought you were one of the few who didn't have preconceived ideas about me, after all I understand very well, my exceptional and divine personality is so vast that it's hard to go around it in a human lifetime and-"

"Lokiii..." sighed Mobius

"Yes?"

"Shut up."

Loki quivered slightly as he remembered the last time Mobius had said that to him and the way he had shut Loki up. He replied in a playful tone, "I'd tell you to shut me up, but then again this is a public place."

Loki didn't need to see Mobius' face to know that he was rolling his eyes. He continued his massage, while explaining, "To answer your question, let's just say that DB Cooper wasn't the only bet I lost with Thor and I won't go into further explanation."

Mobius chuckled before replying, "In any case, I am delighted to be the lucky beneficiary of your talents, no matter how you acquired them."

Loki simply smiled and continued his ministrations, as Mobius flipped through his magazine while groaning his appreciation every time the god loosened a sensitive muscle.

"Mobius..." he murmured softly.

"Hmmm..."

"I'd like to do something more for you, but it requires that you trust me." Loki's tone had become uncertain.

"Well I let you take me to Pompeii and you didn't stab me in the back, so I guess that means I trust you right?"

A bit of a twisted way of reasoning Loki thought, but it would be enough for what he wanted to do.

"Second, do you trust me enough to take off my necklace for a few moments so I can use my magic?" He knew Mobius' answer would be slower in coming, after all, two kisses exchanged didn't mean unlimited trust.

Mobius surprised him once again though, he tilted his head back and looked at Loki with a smile, reaching into his pocket to activate the command that opened the inhibitor collar. Loki's throat tightened at this display of trust.

He pulled himself together and said, "Okay, then I want you to think of your favorite jetski model and close your eyes."

Mobius chuckled again, but complied.

Loki placed his fingers on the man's temples, without applying pressure. He concentrated and a faint green flash passed between his fingers and Mobius' skin.

With his eyes closed because he was concentrating, Loki did not see Mobius' expressions, but he heard his exclamations of glee and laughter.

They stayed like that for a few minutes. Then Loki slowly opened his eyes and gradually took his hands off Mobius' head. The man slowly came back to reality. He leaned his head back again and murmured a thank you, while squeezing one of Loki's hands that had lingered on his shoulder.

"So was it as good as you thought it would be?" asked Loki.

"Better even. I really felt like I was on a jet ski, out on the ocean, the wind whipping by, the spray, everything." He touched his cheek, "I still feel like I can feel all of that even though I know it wasn't real. Thank you again."

Loki awkwardly replied, "I know it's probably not as good as the real thing, but I hope it took your mind off it a bit."

"Don't underestimate what you did Loki, it was exactly what I needed."

"Good for you then," Loki muttered as he picked up the collar to put it back on.

Mobius' hand stopped him.

"Wait, don't put it back on just yet. Are you able to create an illusion where we both would be, if I project to you what I want?"

Loki simply opened his arms and said, "Hey you forget who I am."

"Idiot."

Loki replied, "Alright, it's going to be just like before, just gather what you want us to see in your mind. Are you ready?"

"Yes." replied Mobius firmly.

Loki repeated the same gestures as before and closed his eyes.

Anyone who entered at that moment would have seen the scene of one man sitting at his desk while another stood behind him with his hands on his temples. Both men sporting bright smiles.

A few minutes later, they opened their eyes at the same time and Loki moved back a little.

Mobius caught his hand before he could pull it away.

"Are you okay?"

Loki nodded but said nothing. He gently withdrew his hand and put his collar back on. Seeing that he was reluctant to speak, Mobius turned fully toward him and pulled him by the sleeve until he was standing between Mobius' knees.

Looking at him from below, he asked gently, "Loki, speak to me."

Loki replied just as softly, "Is this the kind of thing you like, the kind of thing you'd like to do...with me?"

"We could start with that after this whole thing is over, what do you say? Ah unless there's a rule that says gods don't date?" asked Mobius, raising an eyebrow.

Spreading his arms, a mischievous smile on his face, Loki said with his trademark emphasis, "Hey, I'm Loki, the god of mischief, since when do I follow rules?

Quickly checking behind his shoulder that no one was there, Mobius pulled Loki's head to his own with a gentle tug on his tie and proceeded to wipe the arrogant smile from Loki's lips in the only way he knew to be effective.

________

The whole serie here : The story of Loki and Mobius

Thanks for all the support, this fandom is incredibly motivating. Love you all!🥰

Not beta'd