#ml senti kids theory

[nothingtherefornow]

I wholefully agree ith all you said T^T This is such a beautifull analysis

I think my favorite thing about sentiadrien and the sentikids theory is that at its core, it's a lesson about being kind to those who are different from us and that even with those differences they are still worthy of being loved and heard. Being a senti doesn't make Adrien any less worthy of our love and time, it doesn't make us relate to him less. He's still our little sunshine boy, and I really like that.

We got to see him rebel and fight back in little ways. We saw him experience all these firsts and learn what it means to love and be loved. We watched him be happy and sad and angry and frustrated. We see him feel the way we feel sometimes, we see him be real. And we are going to see so much more.

We get to see him be human, and it's great because it reminds us that even though he is "different" he is still one of the most human of all the characters on the show.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I’m personally a bit mixed on the senti-kid stuff.

I like it in concept because I’m a big fan of angst and existential horror, especially involving the “am I really a human/person? Am I a monster?” character arcs. Then you add in the horror of “they can have their free will taken away incredibly easily” (and be killed at someone’s whim) and that adds a whole other layer. I know that’s part of why a lot of people don’t like it, but I like the angst stuff a lot.

Having said that, I am still on the fence about it, because as much as I like the aforementioned reasons, I really hate how it was handled narratively. They do address the “can be killed easily” part a little, with Sentibug and Felix, but I think they don’t expand much on it, and don’t really stay consistant with it (like how they treat other sentis- LB controlling Sentibubbler, for example).

But the most glaring part of it for me is: having Adrien be a senti feels more like yet another reason for them to take him out of a significant action role in the story. They already did this with Chat Blanc: “oh he can’t know his dad is Hawkmoth bc he’ll destroy the world!” Then again with Ephemeral, though this time with the obvious use of the amok (Gabriel twisting the ring as he akumatized him). S5 shows him using it more and more, and has the finale with him still in control of the main villain, making it incredibly risky for Adrien to even have the Miraculous. Astruc and other fans can talk all they want about how feather kids are just magical IVF babies, and while I agree that they are human still, it blatantly ignores that having them be controlled by someone that dangerous makes them a huge risk, even if they get their amok (which is why I think there should have been some way to at least break them free of the control aspect, even if not their lives being tied to an object). (It’s also incredibly scary for the senti kid themselves.) Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world. It’s harsh, but powers like these, despite how they’re treated sometimes, can’t just be given out like candy to anyone, they need to be given selectively and carefully. Something like this can’t just be put in the hands of someone who isn’t even in full control of themselves. That’s so much responsibility to have. The narrative gave us two huge reasons that the narrative gave us for why Adrien can’t be a part of defeating his father and isn’t fit for the miraculous: 1) he’ll destroy the world, 2) he can be magically controlled and they can’t do anything about it. Why are they trying so hard to come up with reasons for why one of their main characters shouldn’t be in the role they gave him? The senti story would fit far better if Adrien wasn’t Chat Noir- I’ve read a lot of fics where things do work out, but they usually always take it in a direction that the show wouldn’t (in terms of story style and episode outline), so I don’t really think it can be successful in a canon style (though fic writers always surprise me, so I’m happy to be proven wrong).

That’s not even bringing up how Adrien’s arc was all about him obeying his father because he wants approval, not bc of magic, which… I guess can be explained away by Gabriel acting on the assumption that they made him perfect, therefore he doesn’t need to be controlled (like why Tomoe let Kagami keep her amok), but they don’t really address that on the Agreste side- how far is Gabriel willing to go? Why is he using it more now? Did Emilie use his amok? What for and why? Did the couple have a discussion beforehand? There’s just too much left open for the giant hole they created.

Sorry if this came off as ranty, but I wanted to share my thoughts as someone who does like the senti plotline, but still has frustrations with the show’s writing quality and inability to pull it off.

In another show, the sentikid stuff would have been amazing, so I don't fault anyone for liking the concept! It's a fantastic setup for a dark and twisted take on the genres that Miraculous is playing with. I could easily see that more serious show being considered a sort of sister show to Madoka Magica in terms of what it's trying to do.

The problem is that Miraculous isn't Madoka Magica. It's not trying to be a dark fantasy for teens and adults. It's trying to be a rom-com for little kids and the sentikid plotline has no place in a rom-com for little kids. It's way too serious for many of the reasons that you brought up.

For me, the biggest one is probably this point:

Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world.

Because sentimonsters do not have true free will, Adrien is a massive liability who should never be trusted with a miraculous. The risk is simply too great. He should also never be with Marinette or anyone else whose job is high stakes as he's a massive liability to them. A perfect sleeper agent who could be commanded to fool everyone until it's too late.

Great stuff if you like psychological horror, terrible stuff if you're here to see the power of love and friendship triumph over all!

There's also the issue of when the sentitwist was introduced. Madoka Magica goes from classic magical girl team show to psychological horror within the first few episodes, which is perfectly reasonable. Shows often take a few episodes to establish their tone. Miraculous doesn't introduce the sentikid stuff until season four, well over 24 hours into the show's runtime, way too late for a massive tone shift!

Add in the issues with how the sentitwist is used to downplay Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's reactions to it and, yeah, this was not a good move. I have no idea how the writing team got the higher ups to approve this twist. I'm still stunned that Disney okayed it.

I do think that Miraculous could have kept its lighthearted nature and done the sentitwist, but it would have required the sentikids to have a way to truly break free. After all, Pinocchio is a children's story and it has similar elements, but we didn't get Pinocchio. Instead we got Ephemeral, the episode where our hero stared his love in the eyes and doomed the world because he is totally incapable of being her hero when someone else has even one of his rings. That isn't a love story. It's a tragedy.

[overworkedunderwhelmed]

You know how something strikes you later?

Remember the look Felix gives Kagami in the Gabriel Agreste episode? I mean Kagami kind of glares at him because she knows he’s done things Adrien didn’t like.

Of course, we know from the end of Season 4 that Felix has known more.

Emotion (ep 18) spoilers behind the cut...

Meaning Felix probably knew by then what Kagami’s role was supposed to be in the grand scheme of things. He knows she’s supposed to their parent’s pawn and marry Adrien.

Just as he’s known he was a Senti and likely for a while, he probably also got more than a little glimpse behind the curtain...by the Gabriel Agreste episode, if he didn’t know it before.

I bet he thinks he’s saving Kagami, too. 

If there are other Senti, as I’ve theorized before it is interesting that he didn’t know or bother to save them.

Plus, Felix knew Marinette liked Adrien from her recorded confession in the Felix episode. He just never considered that Adrien would ever return her feelings...or that she even mattered as a non-Senti.

The fact that he is even considering Adrien’s or Kagami’s happiness here is growth... and that he reverses his plans for his cousin’s happiness is the power of the wild card we’ve been missing this far.

You have to wonder if it was seeing Emelie’s body in the basement that made Felix change his mind about Adrien.

Felix had to realize just how much Gabriel was keeping from Adrien.

Considering he is the only one who knows that truth of what Gabriel has been hiding in Adrien’s basement... I think the ride really is about to start.

[infinitysgrace]

hi! i just wanted to post a question about the sentimoster theory. would you gen find it less fucked up if A. its MEANT to be abusive. (astruc as mentioned multiple times that gabriel and nathalie "arent abusive" and its like??? HELLO??? WHAT DO U MEAN???? so like, if it WANT intended for this to be abuse is what im posing here) and B. its WASNT being done in the context of a "kids show" (thus, allowing them to actually EXPLORE the topic of WHY it's fucked that he's a senti) tldr: do you think it'd be any better if it was intended to be a horrible thing, or do you personally believe there is NO fixing the "senti adrien" situation? ty in advance, i love how ur brain works /gen

... I'm gonna split this post into pieces

would you gen find it less fucked up if A. its MEANT to be abusive.

not really (also i don't keep up with things astruc says anymore so i have no comment on what he says about gabriel and nathalie). My problems with sentidrien that i've posted about are all under the assumption that it is meant to be abusive and i still think it's royally fucked up, a really bad idea, and they shouldn't do it.

B. its WASNT being done in the context of a "kids show"

I mean I still wouldn't like it. under the context of it not being a kids show would just highlight how unnecessary of a thing it was to. In the eyes of a lot of people it being a kids show is framed as a reason for why it was necessary so it not being for kids erases that idea entirely even if it's wrong which it is, and just leaves it being lazy and not needed.

it's like... it wouldn't just have to be "not a kids show" it would have to be either literally Madoka Magica or one of those genre subversion shows that obviously hate the source material and are using subversion as a means to complain about the parts of the genre they don't like for it to justify sentidrien's existence. ML is not madoka magica, and i'd rather the show not be made at all than see the latter happen, but hey that's just me.

tl;dr: no there's no way to make sentidrien not fucked up

[nothingtherefornow]

@kisilinramblings, your analysis and explanations are very good and accurate and probably enough to answer all questions we fans often asked reguarding Adrien being a sentimonster and what this entails :)

And with all of that being said, an idea came to me : what if Chat Noir were to learn to have more control over his cataclysm ? To have his power evolve in sa similar way Ladybug's power did when she found a way to create the magical charms ?

What if instead of making sentimonster go beserk and going mad, Chat Noir's cataclysm could break sentimonsters free from the control of their amoks ? It's been confirmed that what the cataclysm destroys when it touches a sentimonster is their magical link with their amok right ?

What it fthe key for Felix, Adrien, Kagami and any other potential senti-human to be safe from ever being puppeted and controlled with the power of ther amok was the black cat's cataclysm ?

I had this discussion with my friend regarding the sentimonster status of Adrien and while the ambassador said that it's canon, the scene in Mirsculer episode stood out the most with us because it seems to be proving otherwise.

Case of point : Sentimonster will goes berserk upon making a contact with Cataclysm, Adrien didn't.

The answer that I get when I I asked around about it prior to s5 is that :

The Cataclysm is a fake and it didn't have the same power as Chat Noir.

The suit protect him.

I once saw Astruc tweeted regarding the first answer : No, the cataclysm isn't fake. It had the same power and strength as Chat Noir's and the second point is proved to be wrong or not 100% true either considering Monarch got the damage from the cataclysm and it slowly killing him.

In fact, Adrien's reaction and his comment about his fractured (broken?) Ribs in that episode is basically the same as what happened with Gabriel in s5.

We're just confused because at one point the show seemed to give up proof that Adrien isn't a sentimonster while other moment the fandom seemed to give us proof that he is.

I'm asking because you're one of the rare blog that seems neutral enough in discussion so I hope you won't mind if I ask if those hints that I keep seeing about Adrien is sentimonster in concrete enough as evidence that he is or it could be read as ambiguous hint?

I'm sorry if you had similar question before.

Ok, but mind you, I haven't watch past Transmission as I want to follow this season in order as much as I can. So if I am missing elements that come later this season, this is normal and I ask people who would want to reply to this to NOT SPOIL ME.

And just to make it clear for those who don't know me, my stance about the SentiAdrien-theory is the following : I may not overall like it because of some elements, but after Ephemeral, I have accepted SentiAdrien is implied enough to be real despite no official verbal confirmation in canon so far. In other words, to me, SentiAdrien is present in the subtext, but I don't like some implications related to it that comes from my own interpretation as viewer of the source material.

Anyway, let's re-establish some facts first. We know that Cataclysm causes something "bad" to happen to whatever it touches depending on its nature.

Against most superpowers, Cataclysm neutralizes them. It can even destroyed an alternate plane dimension like we have seen in Pixelator.

For an object or machine, it will make it malfunction, break or rust to the point it can turned to dust. Uncanny Valley, for example, is a android who after taking a Cataclysm on herself stop functionning and the Lucky Charm was used to reboot her.

For living beings, Cataclysm effect are transposed. Bones will fracture / break or tissues will decay. Those are the two known and observed effects in canon. And just like an object can be completely destroyed because it is too much degraded, Cataclysm can potential kill a living being if the damages are unstainable for the body to function either instantly (see the Akuma in Chat Blanc -- which is a real butterfly at its core -- which is the closest we got of that) or on the long term (Monarch).

In the case of Sentis, the magic link with the Amok is severed, making them uncontrollable. And yes, the first modus operandi with all Senti created for battle so far by the Bad Guys is to go berserk as a result. Also, despite them cracked mark they get after tanking a Cataclysm as if they were objects, Sentis are ultimately living beings even if they more or less look like it and no matter if they are intended as a weapon or not. They are not artificial intelligent beings like Uncanny Valley.

Those are the facts.

Another thing we tend to forget, but Chat Blanc did Cataclysm himself during the alternate timeline. Instead of attacking either Hawkmoth or Ladybug, he turned his attack on him... before losing control of his powers. Months passed and despite this, physically, he looks fine. Which can make one wonder... if Monarch's body is progressively rotting after taking a Catasclym and Chat Noir's ribs were fractured until he was healed, what was Chat Blanc Cataclysm effect on him? Could it have been something else than physical? Of course, his unstable mental state later during his fight with Ladybug is mostly due to the trauma he has lived and the months of his solitude in this post-apocalyptic world he has caused. There is no way someone would remain sane of mind under the same context. But there is the possibility Cataslym contributed to that unstability as well. However, there is no way to fully determine it because it is not visible.

Now, time for my theory. I suspect how the Senti was created plays a role there. All Sentis are created from one emotion in the first place. And the Creator can shape and program the Senti however they want during creation. They can make them look a certain way, have skills or powers the creator has predetermined. The Sentis meant to battle against Ladybug and Chat Noir are most probably made to tank a Cataclysm. But while Cataclym can't physically harm a Senti created to be a living weapon, the only thing that remain with which it can mess under these circumstances is the Peacock magic itself.

So what if we and the heores are actually misunderstanding the Berserk effect? What if the Senti going berserk is merely the result of them being confused, scared or having their core emotion overtaking them because Cataclysm actually messed with their emotional regulation? In most case, the Senti is created out of a negative emotion such as anger, thus why they tend to be mostly destructive.

And if so, it begs the following question : if the Senti was never created with the intention for them to be used in a magic battle and defend against superpowers, to just be and pass as a normal living being, would them being hit by Cataclysm actually have similar consequences to what actually happens with other normal living being as a possible effect? Making the body malfunction in some way instead? Of course, that doesn't mean those Senti are immune to become berserk. Just that Cataclysm has more options to hazardly choose from.

Anyway, food for thought.

Also, adding this because I expect this counter-argument to pop out, but in the context of SentiAdrien, the reason why Chat Blanc didn't vanished despite the Twin Rings probably being turn to dust judging by the state of all Paris citizen in that alternate timeline including Hawkmoth, is probably due to the fact the Twin Ring wasn't in one piece when they were destroyed. Just like the record disk in Crocoduel. Breaking the parts separately doesn't release the Akuma in this context. The object needs to be broken as one for it to happen. And Akuma and Amok work roughly the same, so there you have it.

[chatonnoir]

People cheering their Senti theory is confirmed. What do you have in mind about it?

Haha I knew someone would eventually ask me about it since I never really share my opinion on it

I really hated it early in the season, especially because of how people were acting after Wishmaker. Like, a lot of people saw Adrien say he wanted to be what his parents wanted him to be/didn't have any dreams of his own, and their response was a bunch of posts being like "OMG!!!! HE DOESNT HAVE ANY DREAMS!!!! THATS NOT NORMAL!!!!! SENTIMONSTER CONFIRMED!!!!!!" (yes I saw people talking exactly like this and saying things about how its 'not normal') and it was insanely insensitive and obnoxious. Things that were very obvious signs of abuse that a lot of us abused kids related to were turned in to "oBviOuS sIGnS hE's nOt HuMaN!!!1!1!!!1!" by the fandom. Truth be told, the fandom's behavior regarding things that "confirmed" the theory was far more upsetting to me than the idea of the theory becoming canon. I also personally felt like Adrien turning on Gabriel would be more impactful if Gabriel is Adrien’s biological father. Going against your birth parent(s) is immensely difficult to do when you’ve been conditioned to be submissive to them, especially because they often use the fact that you’re “blood” to manipulate you in to being loyal. That's not to say adoptive/non-blood related relatives can't be abusive and that going against them is any less difficult, of course. It's just coming from my perspective as an Asian person, since for us, filial piety and loyalty to our families is instilled in us from birth, and often used to manipulate us in abusive situations. The theory also just felt excessive to me. By which I mean, on top of Adrien already having a dead mother and a villain for a father, adding him having to find out he's a magical being who can be thanos snapped from existence felt like his story was crossing over from angst to just straight up tragedy porn.

On the other hand though, as time has passed and I’ve given it more thought, I don't think it's as unnecessary a plot development as a lot of the people opposed to it believe it is. I've seen people say that ML doesn't need to use metaphors/symbols for abuse when they've already been depicting an abused child from the start and that adding the magical element simply waters down/detracts from the abuse story, but I'm not sure I agree with that. You know I specifically like to talk about the differences between the English script and the French script, and the trend I've pointed out repeatedly is that American networks seem a lot more strict about what they deem "appropriate" for children's shows, resulting in the English script significantly toning down/softening/censoring things that were particularly romantic or emotionally heavy in the French script. I've also talked about how Astruc had originally wanted ML to be a show for teens, but ended up making it a children's show instead for economic/marketing reasons, while still trying to make ML a show that tackles more mature/heavy themes and that can be enjoyed by all ages. Those two things are, in fact, relevant here.

There’s a lot of things kids' media, especially kids' media that is affiliated with The Disney Corporation, can’t show without being blocked by executives or forced to raise the rating etc. Magical “loopholes” like Sentis let them get away with showing things more blatantly than they usually would and allow them to delve in to "darker" themes they otherwise wouldn’t be able to tackle, like explicit abuse/trauma and death (think of how Disney villains usually have to die offscreen by falling to their doom/being engulfed in flames/turning to dust/etc.) You may be thinking, “but darker things like death and physical abuse were shown by other Y-7 rated cartoons like Avatar: The Last Airbender!”, but remember that ATLA aired on Nickelodeon, not Disney. Nickelodeon has always been a lot more lax than Disney when it comes to what is “appropriate” for kids (and even then, ATLA always had to have those things happen offscreen). Did you ever notice how ML Season 1 was significantly more risqué than the later seasons, between Chat Noir flirting with Ladybug by saying he “looks hot in a swimsuit,” Ladybug implying that she’d like to see Adrien without his clothes on, and Ladybug being pinned to the ground with Chat Noir on top of her while they kissed? Did you also know that ML Season 1 originally aired on Nickelodeon in the US, after which the rights to the show were acquired by Disney? TOTAL coincidence that these teens got significantly less thirsty after the network switch /s

They've already been using magic as a loophole to push the boundaries like this, like all the times characters have "died"/disappeared, and when they actually showed Chat Noir accidentally “kill” someone onscreen (Aeon), and when they were literally able to show one of their leads eradicating all life on earth. They could get away with all of that because they have Ladybug’s Reset Button and because they kept it vague/magical enough to be able to defend that “they didn’t die they just disappeared/short-circuited/got turned in to statues/etc.!!!!“ (they absolutely did die). They can have Émilie's corpse on display in the basement because they never outright say she's "dead" and leave it vague enough that they can convince children and/or network executives that she's in a Snow White-esque endless sleep caused by magic. Characters being Sentis opens new doors for them in terms of storytelling which lets the writers bypass the limitations of being a children’s show. They can more blatantly depict Adrien being terrified of and submissive to his father without being censored/forced to tone it down because they can defend it with “no it’s not actually too dark/heavy for a children’s show, we’re not blatantly showing a child who has been traumatized and beaten in to submission! Its just because of his father's magical control! Perfectly appropriate for a children’s show! :)”

And that reasoning makes even more sense when you consider the way pretty minor/inoffensive things already get censored in the show. Chat Noir simply saying “I thought I’d lost you” was inexplicably turned in to “that was a wild ride” in the English dub of Animan??? Because apparently even having one of the leads get emotional while admitting that they thought their partner died was too much? They have a lot of constraints to work around when writing a show which is rated for ages 5+, is affiliated with Disney, and has a runtime of ~20 minutes per episode, and I don’t think enough people take those facts in to consideration when they criticize the show. Plenty of people have already made a lot of good points about how it could be beneficial for children who are victims of abuse (check out @gentil-minou's posts on it) so I won't get in to that. I just wanted to talk about this specific aspect since I haven't seen anyone taking it in to consideration in their criticism. Also, the people who are opposed to it really need to stop acting like there is one correct way to represent child abuse and that there aren't child abuse victims who actually find comfort in/relate to SentiAdrien.

My feelings are mixed and I'm waiting to see where they go with it instead of casting judgement before they've even had a chance to tell the story, but I don't hate it and I definitely don't believe it's the unnecessary plot development that the people opposed to it say it is.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Gale reviews: ML Season 4 episode 18 Wishmaker

-So basically career day for students. But there is like a fair for it.

-Chloé says she is rich and that it doesnt matter.

-Adrien has a crisis over what he wants to do. Confirmed that adrien only models because his dad asked him to.

-Adrien saying that Ladybug will eventually replace him... ( Oh hi rocketear, Optigami and Sentibubbler. The angst is still there

-Plagg being more successful cheering adrien up.

-Marinette felt sure until her kwami started questioning her purpose.

-So she goes to the Fair and Alec proves he is litterally an awful human being.

-Andre getting roasted! XD

-Well gotta give points for Andre the ice cream man. He really believes he has value.

-Andre just DECIMATED ALEC! WOW. I respect the Ice cream man now. i gotta move him off the list.

-Andre backstory revealed.

-Well Luka's voice got deeper in the english dub.

-Luka is an instrument maker? You know what that makes sense. Side note... He is like 15 right? Boy already has a career making instruments...

-Well this platonic Lukanette sure is interesting. He actually makes a decent Tikki. Maybe if he was a kwami it would be better

-Alec swinging in with a guitar app to roast Luka. Points on that one but My bet is it doesnt work

-Oh! Luka pulls out the Violin. So this was how it was confirmed

-OH MY KWAMI THE CRINGE OF THAT MONOLOGUE! But yea, Luka is right tho.

-And Alec showing cracks in the persona.

-Marinette impressed with Luka for a moment and Luka just like "Oh Adrien is right there."

-So now we get to Sad adrien

-This episode is sending mixed signals. I dont like it.

-Also Adrien's fear is legit

-Oh wow Lukadrinette moment. Is this going to be their version of loveater?

-Luka is basically the Andre of Music.

-Okay so he is listening to both.

-And he plays the violin. Well this was nice

-Alec just keeps taking the L's today. Point is if you are doing what you love, you cant let others shame you for loving it.

-Alec just had a breakdown. Dude... please give him a hug

-Shadowmoth you are doing that same s*** to your son

-PEOPLE! DONT JUST STAND THERE AND LET HIM GET AKUMATIZED!

-Wishmaker looks cool.

-A MAN TURNED INTO SANTA

-JAGGED'S CHILDHOOD DREAM WAS TO BE A CROCODILE. UNLESS SOMETHING TERRIBLE HAPPENS. This is amazing!

-GIANT ROBOT DREAM!

-Luka really prominent in this episode. I am on the fence on this

-Croc jagged doesnt know how to swim

-Chat noir takes down the robot.

-FIREMAN COWBOY!

-Someone wanted to be a cucumber... He got turned into a cucumber... That is the funniest s*** I have ever seen.

-Okay so the phrasing is Chat noir was confused on why Ladybug would get revealed if she got hit. Marinette admits to wanting to be the knitting fairy.

-Chat noir confessing he had no idea what he wanted to be. Just realized Chat noir really hasnt been making any jokes so far... Okay I am NOW CONCERNED

-Luka CHILLING WITH his crocodile dad is hilarious. "Dad Crocodiles know how to swim." "I didnt know that as a kid" DID THEY JUST EXPLAIN A PLOTHOLE AWAY!

-Viperion appears.

-I am getting a very bad feeling about this.

-OOO! They added sparks to the transformation. Cool.

-Wishmaker making a convincing arguement.

-Oh Luka screwed up

-And... Marinette just got exposed... Also the costume is adorable! But Luka knowing when it was his fault... WHAT THE FRIG?!

-AND LUKA NOW KNOWS ADRIENS IDENTITY!

-Also Adrien... sweetie. You deserve better than that dream

-So senti-adrien theory might hold more water than we thought.

-I am just gonna say it. Viperion... You SUCK TODAY.

-Luka outright LYING to Ladybug. HE KNOWS BOTH OF THEIR IDENTITES

-DINO HUGGIE!!! ITS LIKE A CAREBEAR BUT BETTER!

-And thats how they win.

-Wishmaker charm looks cool.

-Alec decides to make a new show.

-Dude... Luka F***ING LIED! Like I get why but... oh Kwami I have thoughts

-So no cap. ALEC'S new costume is amazing!

_____________________________________________________________

Luka knowing BOTH OF THEIR IDENTITIES?! WHAT THE F***

I am pissed for both of my children.

Marinette put her trust in Luka and when she asked if he knew HE LIED TO HER. He basically knows who she is and thats a danger she cant predict. Luka doesnt have an akuma charm! Luka is a danger to her. HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD HER! WHAT HAPPENED TO HONESTY?! WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TRUTH MATTERS?! THIS ISNT A MATTER OF FEELINGS LUKA! THIS IS A MATTER THAT IS CONCERNING!

And Adrien. Adrien has yet to tell anyone his identity. And the first person to find out is someone he never told? This is even worse because LAST EPISODE! Adrien found out about Carapace and Rena Rouge. His faith in secret identities is going to be shattered.

Despite my emotions.

8/10

I am still iffy on him knowing tho

[nierielfaegir]

I don't think it's a bad thing to use the peacock miraculous to create a child (they're still human beings), as long as one treats them with love and respect, just like any other kid.

I also think it makes sense for the story: a couple that wanted nothing more than to have a child and end up resorting to magic because everything else failed, but one parent dies due to the miraculous being broken and the other becomes a villain to save them. It's an interesting concept and gives a lot of weight to Gabriel's motivations and Emile's "sacrifice".

As for the amok, the parents should keep it safe and then give it to the kid once they're grown up and can understand what's going on and the gravity of the situation. They should never use it.

My problem with the "senti-kids" storyline is that I don't believe it was planned from the start (it's not even mentioned in the ML bible that leaked) and only introduced because Astruc read the fan-theories and decided to run with them, resulting in a poorly manged sideplot.

There were so many things they could have tackled, for example: how did Gabriel react when he discovered what was killing Emilie? Did he saw (even for a brief moment) Adrien in a different light? (personally I don't think he did) Did he blame himself? Or Nathalie? Why did Felix not say anything to Adrien and revealed it only to Marinette? Also, will Marinette ever tell the truth to Adrien? (According to Astruc it will not be mentioned again... unless he changes his mind, again)

In the Awakening movie we hear Gabriel say "I should have been the one to go" and "Adrien needed his mother more than he needed me", so immediately the audience knows he feels guilty about what happened to Emilie and never resented Adrien for it. Sure, the senti-kid thing is not mentioned, but that cliffhanger is pretty self-explanatory. The difference is that in that universe Adrien and Marinette have no secrets, so how that thread will unravel is open to endless possibilities.

Sorry for the rambling, but honestly the more I look at MLB the more I think Adrien should have been the main character/focus of the series, not Marinette (no shade to her btw).

Tell me, how do you feel about the show getting so much darker over time?

You mean MLB? I don't see it as "getting darker" as much as the stakes getting higher (as most shows do) and "the writing going off the rails and rushing through stuff to get to the desired ending" by s5.

Don't get me wrong, it tries to be "darker", but it doesn't really commit to it and ends up retconning characters or events, thus becoming very messy as a result.

For example, Gabriel going off the rails and getting corrupted by the power of multiple miraculous, pushing Nathalie to leave him and actively oppose him. That was a great idea and the writers could have done so much with it, such as having Nathalie team up with Felix or anonimously feed information to LB and CN, but they failed because by doing so it would have "taken away from other things/characters".

Or the most blaitant misstep: Chat Noir using the cataclysm on a human being. Sure he does look disturbed by it after the fact, but for the remaining half of the episode they have Marinette explaining what the audience had already understood to Alya. Adrien's trauma? Never mentioned again, not in that episode or the following ones.

Even Gabriel getting "cataclysmed" falls short because while they show how the toll it's taking on him and that it will end up killing him, in the special that followed s5 (that takes place during s5), the writers show us that LB always had the power to cure him (she cures the magic corruption that's killing AU LB and CN), making all of that drama meanigless, because we know it could have been resolved easly.

What it does achieve is unintentional, for example: Chloe being abandoned by her father with the woman who abandoned, verbally and emotionally abused her; or Gabriel winning in the finale by destroying the world and recreating it to his wishes. Both are really dark, but the writers portray these intances as a "good thing" and a "happy ending".

[luxuriant-starlight]

Miraculous, Simply The Best (A new ML Fic!!!) Ch. 1

Ch. 1: I Definitely Do Not Like Chat Noir

Hello everyone!!! I don't know if y'all remember but I've been talking about writing a new epic ML fic and this is the one!!! Here's my ao3 description:

"Aside from the fact that Hawkmoth still possessed most of the miraculous and Felix had taken the peacock and gone MIA, along with other secret-superhero-oriented issues, Marinette was also dealing with average teenage girl problems, like-

“Adrien. Nice of you to finally join us.”

I also have a separate chapter summary:

Summary: Marinette can't stop thinking about that night, and wondering if something might be different after all.

This is a fic I've had in my head for literal years, since I joined this fandom in like 2016, and I finally decided to write it after watching the season 4 finale. A slightly aged up AU/canon divergence where the kids are a couple years older, but mostly canon and set during season 5. This fic is basically just my idea of how the final battle with Hawkmoth will play out and how these crazy kids will finally get together. Essentially probably gonna be a 75k word headcanon. Lots of reverse love square antics and also normal love square antics. DOES FOLLOW SENTI!ADRIEN THEORY; but happy vibes."

Give it a read if you can either here or on ao3, but I'd really appreciate likes, reblogs, kudos, comments, replies, and the like! Read below or click one of the links to read on:

ao3 or ffn

Or

Ch. 1: I Definitely Do Not Like Chat Noir

Marinette had been thinking an awful lot about that night.

The one where Hawkmoth took all the miraculous.

She knew it had been a while since then. It was nearly six months ago, now. She was 16 already, and had even already started her last year of lycée. I guess it must just be trauma, like Alya said…

But no matter what, she just couldn’t get it out of her head. How could she have been so stupid? How could she have made such huge, glaring mistakes? She had been so, so focused on the whole identity thing that she completely forgot about making sure she wasn’t compromising the miraculous in other ways. She let that Felix kid play her…

Marinette shook her head. That was the past. Focus on the now. Mlle. Bustier was droning on about Victor Hugo and 19th-century French literature. She looked down at her notebook and tried to passively take notes, but she just ended up doodling, regardless of her efforts. She doodled a very unflattering picture of Hawkmoth, and smiled, despite herself.

At least we’ve gotten some of them back, Marinette thought, quickly glancing over at Alya, who flashed her a quizzical look. She swatted her hand in a “nevermind” gesture at her, and Alya turned her head back to Mlle. Bustier, the new braids she was sporting today bouncing softly as she did.

But then there was another problem with that night. Aside from the fact that Hawkmoth still possessed most of the miraculous and Felix had taken the peacock and gone MIA, along with other secret-superhero-oriented issues, Marinette was also dealing with average teenage girl problems, like-

“Adrien. Nice of you to finally join us.”

Mlle. Bustier’s voice startled her and tore Marinette’s attention away from her thoughts. She turned her attention to the door, where Adrien was sheepishly walking in with a tardy note, and her heart skipped maybe 30 beats.

“Sorry, Mlle. I have a note from my dad’s assistant. I was doing an early morning photoshoot and it ended up taking a bit longer than expected.” Adrien apologized, handing Mlle. Bustier the note and then passively ran his tanned fingers through that sandy blonde hair of his. Marinette couldn’t even help but sigh, a bit dreamily, despite herself.

Mlle. Bustier raised an eyebrow. “An early morning photoshoot? Oh, Adrien. I ought to speak to that father of yours. You’re still a minor. Your work should not take precedence over your education.”

“No!” Adrien shouted, suddenly, making everyone who wasn’t already looking turn their head to stare at him in confusion. “Sorry. I meant no, please,” he repeated, in a gentler tone. “We got caught in the rain after the shoot. That’s why I’m late. It ended way earlier, but the weather just complicated things. I promise I’ll try to be on time next time.”

“But, Adrien-” Mlle. Bustier began.

“Please, Mlle. Bustier. I promise.” Adrien gave her sad kitten eyes that made Marinette’s heart melt a bit.

“Well…” Mlle. Bustier sighed, clearly taken by Adrien’s begging. “Okay, Adrien. But just this once. If it happens again, I’m calling your father and giving him a piece of my mind.”

Adrien smiled so brightly Marinette felt like the world slowed down around her, and hugged their teacher, taking her off guard. “Thank you!”

“Alright, alright,” Mlle. Bustier warned, pushing Adrien off gently, despite the warm smile on her face. “To your seat. Nino can share the notes on what you’ve missed.”

Adrien rushed over to his seat and fist-bumped Nino, whispering some stuff to him too quietly for Marinette to hear. That was her problem. Sitting right there, in front of her, like he had been for three years already, since they first met when they were 13. Adrien Agreste…

She was still as madly in love with him as ever, and still as friendzoned as ever. Well, at least she was closer friends with him than before. Ever since she gave him all that support back when his dad tried to force him to go on a modeling tour with Lila earlier in the year, their friendship had improved drastically. They were actually hanging out a lot, and had even hung out alone a few times since then. He had even had dinner with her family.

She was glad they were closer friends and wanted to continue supporting him as much as she could, but she couldn’t help feeling a bit sad about it all. She wanted to tell Adrien how she felt about him and had had a few opportunities, but on top of not having the courage to say how she truly felt and knowing that he was dealing with some bigger issues, she couldn’t stop thinking about-

Thunder suddenly boomed outside the classroom, making everyone jump and Mlle. Bustier drop her dry-erase marker.

Marinette stared out the window, watching the rain pour down all over the Parisian skyline outside, and thought again to that night. When she and Chat stood on a roof before the Eiffel Tower as the people of Paris stared on, cheering Ladybug’s name as he took her hand, embraced her-- even after that awful fight they had had-- and told her-

“We’re gonna get them back… You, the greatest superhero there ever was. Them, the people of Paris! And me, your loyal partner.”

Marinette whined, slamming her head down onto her desk, onto her arms. Half the class turned to look at her, quizzically, including Adrien. She turned bright red in embarrassment.

“Sorry! Stubbed my toe!” Marinette laughed, sheepishly, pointing to her taupe ankle boots. Adrien shrugged, Chloe scoffed, and Mlle. Bustier turned back to the lecture. Marinette went back to her thoughts.

Her feelings for Chat Noir had definitely become… complicated. She didn’t like him like that! Not like how she liked Adrien!

But… she couldn’t deny there was something different about her relationship. She found herself… blushing around him. When he caught her in his arms after she fell while they were taking back the snake miraculous recently, she turned bright red like a tomato. She tripped around him, too. He was even seeming to catch on to her! He had been teasing her lately, accusing her of-

“Being clawfully bashful around me, lately, My Lady…”

Marinette squeaked quietly as she remembered that, and how Chat Noir had drawled those words out with an infuriatingly smug grin while he had kissed her hand on patrol recently.

Ugh! Marinette shook her head. She was not bashful, and did not like him like that. She was just more… aware. Of him. Lately.

***

The bell rang, signaling that class was over for lunch. Marinette quickly jumped up to gather her things. Alya elbowed her, and looked at her, quizzically.

“Are you okay, M?” She asked, looking concerned.

Marinette smiled, clearly faking enthusiasm. “Yeah. I’m fine.”

“Really? Is that why you have your serious Ladybug mode face on?” Alya asked, whispering the ‘Ladybug’ part and raising a perfectly lined and fluffed eyebrow.

“What? I do not.” She argued back.

“Do too! And you only get that look when you have one of two things on your mind- that... secret stuff or you-know-who.”

Marinette sighed. “Well, if you must know-”

“Marinette!” Adrien suddenly called, from a few yards away by the teacher’s desk.

“Adrien!” Marinette replied, a little too suddenly, tucking a bit of her bangs behind her ears. At least I don’t stutter anymore, she thought. “What’s up?”

“I was meaning to talk to you earlier. I really like the outfit you’re wearing today. Did you make it?” Adrien asked, his grass green eyes making him look so cute and innocent in Marinette’s eyes.

She looked down at her outfit. She was wearing a pink corduroy mini skirt and a magenta puff-sleeve button-up, along with her boots. She had her hair in a cute, messy bun on the top of her head, and was wearing some delicate silver accessories along with her miraculous.

“Um, yeah!” She said. “I found the skirt at a vintage shop, but I made the top a few months back with some fabric that Alya gave me for my birthday.”

“I like it a lot. I love when you wear pink and similar colors. It really suits you.” Adrien smiled, and Marinette’s entire face probably matched her skirt.

“Oh. Well, um, thank you.” She smiled, shyly, looking down at her shoes. “A-anyway. Was that all you were gonna say or…?” Well, maybe she still stuttered a little.

“Oh, no! I was actually also gonna ask you if you wanted to hang out this weekend just us. Nino said he’s taking Alya on a date, so we won’t be able to do our typical weekend hang. Maybe we could hang at your house and play some video games?”

“Oh! Sure. I’d like that a lot.” Marinette smiled, secretly kicking Alya who was trying and failing to hold back her giggling beside her.

“Okay, great!” Adrien beamed. “We’ll talk more about it after school?”

“Yeah, sounds romantic! I mean, fantastic! Haha, what a funny slip-up.” Marinette laughed super nervously, making Adrien laugh, too.

For a second, it got quiet, and Marinette thought she saw a small pink twinge on his cheeks, but he turned away before she could get a better look.

“Well,” Adrien said, picking up his backpack. “I’ll see you later!”

“Great! See you!” Marinette waved goodbye as Adrien went off to lunch with Nino, who signaled to Alya that he would wait for her.

Marinette sighed dreamily, watching as he walked away, leaving her alone in the classroom with Alya.

“So, you were saying?” Alya asked, making Marinette turn around suddenly to look at her.

She cringed. “I was really hoping you’d forget.”

“Call me an elephant, because you know I never do!” Alya said in a sing-song voice, before getting serious again. “But seriously. What’s going on? You seem more distracted everyday.”

Marinette sighed. “I was just thinking about everything. Hawkmoth and the miraculous and Adrien and Chat.”

“What’s wrong? I thought everything was going great.” Alya frowned. “You’ve already gotten a few of the miraculous back, plus you’re spending time with Adrien. And you told me your relationship with Chat was better than ever.”

She sighed again. “I don’t know, Als. I feel like I’m missing something huge with Hawkmoth. Like I’m on the edge of connecting the dots but just can’t. Plus, I’ve been feeling anxious about Adrien… and, like, my relationship with Chat is a little off since that night.”

“Okay. First of all, the Hawkmoth thing isn’t your fault. Maybe you are on the edge of something, but if you keep just staring at the evidence you have, the mystery is not just gonna solve itself.” She began. “Secondly, the Adrien thing won’t solve itself unless you make a move. And, thirdly, what do you mean ‘off?’”

Marinette looked up at her, having had her face in her hands. “I don’t know. I just feel like I’ve been so nervous around him! His flirting has even been making me… blush.” She looked at Alya through the spaces in between her fingers, feeling mortified.

Alya raised her eyebrows so high they almost hit the ceiling. “What?!”

“Don’t get it twisted, Alya! I don’t like him like that. It has to be something else.”

“Uh-huh.” She replied, smirking.

“I mean it.” Marinette pouted, puffing her cheeks.

“Of course. I mean, I believe you.” Alya nodded, patting her head.

“You do?” Marinette’s eyes sparkled in hope.

Alya crushed that hope immediately. “Yeah, totally. I mean, it’s not as if you’re blushing at every cute thing he does, thinking about him 24/7, dreaming about him, skipping other obligations in order to hang out with him, and staring at him when he’s not looking or something like that.”

“…shut up.” Marinette was tomato red and sulking.

Alya burst into laughter. “Chillax, girl. There’s nothing wrong with liking him.”

“I do not like him!”

She just kept laughing as the girls gathered up their belongings and walked out the classroom in order to go grab a bite to eat.

***

But, unbeknownst to Marinette, someone was watching her. A tall man, lurking in the shadows, hiding in the bushes outside, despite the rain. Waiting for his opportunity…

[cloudshapedpatch]

saw a post about the senti-adrien theory and i finally realized why it upset me so much. if you relate to adrien in any way, please consider reading if you're able (please don't if it's going to trigger you! stay safe above all else)

cw for emotional abuse mention

i started watching ml when i was 13, and during this time i was emotionally abused by my mother. i thought since she never hit us or withheld food or clothes or other things from us that it's wasn't valid, and other people have it worse.

then i saw myself in adrien. it was liberating, to see all the hurt he went through and yet gabriel never hit him, he gave him anything a boy could want. but he neglected him, refused to console him or give him love or let him make friends. it was even better for me to enter the fandom space, where people were constantly reassuring people like me that his abuse was valid and real. it was so nice to finally be heard, and it helped me gain a huge leverage in my own situation. im not gonna go into details tho, because that's not what this post is about (i'm moved out now with a super cool job and roommates, and i don't talk to my mother unless i want to. i'm doing really well for myself).

but i've been seeing lots of posts saying that if adrien is a senti being (i don't like the word monster in this context) then his abuse is no longer valid. that gabriel knew he's "not real" and after emilie was gone, there was no more reason to continue "playing along". and even worse, i've seen many people excusing gabriel's behavior because he's not a real boy. and it really, really hurts.

it hurts to see the whole reason why i was able to make it through high school and leave my abusive situation being told that oh sorry, everything you went through and experienced doesn't count. the same people that were up in arms about gabriel are now saying it didn't even matter in the end. it reminds me a lot of my mother's gaslighting.

if you're like me or you relate to this in any way, it's okay. whatever you went through or are currently going through, it's gonna be okay. you're not going to be in that situation forever, and the healing process really does start as soon as you're safe.

and you don't need to worry about the senti adrien theory. even if it does play out to be true, there's hundreds or even thousands of people here in fandom who agree with you and no amount of amoks is gonna change what adrien went through or make it okay. the past does not negate the present. try to remember that this is still a kids show and they aren't going to leave it on a bad note. both you and adrien will get your happy ending.

my dms and askbox are always open (and i keep anon on) if you need to talk or just have a thought to share. stay safe and much love <3

[gentil-minou]

Bushy (she/her)

You can also follow me on AO3, Instagram, or Twitter

I'm a child/adolescent therapist with a love for Miraculous Ladybug! This blog is multifandom, and I love talking about all my favorites so feel free to talk about anything is you see I'm into it!

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Always happy to take any and all questions, but please read this PSA first!

Tags of Interest:

ml psychology - posts by me and others related to mental health

ml meta - meta-analysis about the show by me and others

ml theory - guesses and theories about where the show is going

bushy overthinks things - posts by me specifically (tagging in progress)

bushy writing - I write fanfiction too!

asked and answered - my tag for answering questions

bushy rambles - the rest of my nonsense and mess, includes life stuff and when I rewatch episodes.

ml memes - sometimes I make dumb memes

ml headcanons - because this show makes me 🥺🥺🥺

Episodes are tagged as "ml [episode name]"

Other miscellaneous tags: posts for a rainy day, general mental health things, things i think are important, etc.

Links to specific analyses and posts below the cut!

New!!!!

Analyzing Adrien and Marinette (3/10/22)

Ladybug's hero is Chat Noir (Origins/Strike Back Parallel) (3/10/22)

Felix's Motivation (3/11/22)

Penalteam was setting up Mari losing the miraculouses (3/11/22)

COMMUNICATION (3/11/22)

Theory: Adrien and Marinette's dynamic in S5 (3/12/22)

How might Adrien act if Mari told him about Chat Blanc (3/11/22)

Mental Health Representation in ML

Psychology Analysis

Marinette and Generalized Anxiety Disorder

Adrien’s Depression

Marinette’s PTSD Symptoms

Panic Attacks within ML

Marinette’s ADHD by @rena-rain (with some commentary from me on the challenges of tracing symptomology in comorbidities)

Adrien’s Character and Emotional Abuse (with commentary by @heartfulselkie and @clover11-10)

Marinette and Emotional Intelligence by @ladyofthenoodle and I

Adrien’s Grief, and how it differs from Gabriel

ML Characters with OCD with help from @galahadwilder

Could Mari have Bipolar? (My opinion: No)

Miraculous Ladybug as a metaphor for CBT (coming soon)

Akuma and Emotion Dysregulation (coming soon)

How Plagg and Tikki are perfect for their respective holders. 

Sentiadrien Theory and Mental Health

Gabriel Agreste’s Emotional Neglect/Abuse of Adrien (2/1/22)

READ THIS FIRST

Sentiadrien Theory as a Narrative for Trauma Healing

The “Does being a sentimonster invalidate Adrien’s experiences?” ask

Why we need to stop using the word “sentimonster" 

Why being a senti doesn't excuse Garbage's abuse of Adrien

The “Are sentiadrien’s reaction a response to trauma or being a sentibeing” ask (AKA the metaphor for abuse vs trauma)

The “Sentiadrien Theory as a metaphor geared towards kids” ask.

SentiAdrien vs SentiFelix

Theory: How Adrien will get his freedom (2/10/22)

Why being a senti doesn't excuse Garbage's abuse of Adrien (2/11/22)

Sentiadrien as representation (2/21/22)

The thing about Sentibeings versus Sentimonsters

My tag for all posts related to the theory: #sentiadrien

Individual Episode/Character Analyses

Chloe and Her Parents

Master Fu's Trauma

Adrien Agreste's Soft Looks (TM) at Marinette Dupain Cheng

Season 5

Theory: Adrien and Marinette's dynamic in S5 (3/12/22)

How might Adrien act if Mari told him about Chat Blanc (3/11/22)

Strike Back

Analyzing Adrien and Marinette (3/10/22)

Ladybug's hero is Chat Noir (Origins/Strike Back Parallel) (3/10/22)

S3 vs S4 Finales and Ladynoir

Felix's Motivation (3/11/22)

Penalteam was setting up Mari losing the miraculouses (3/11/22)

COMMUNICATION (3/11/22)

Risk

Felix is Gabriel's foil (2/22/22)

Theory: Love Square Expansion in the Finale

Fight, Flight, or Freeze

Season 4 was about Adrien falling in love with Marinette

Characters taking Risks

Psycomedian

Kuro Neko

The lessons Marinette and Adrien learn

Is the ladynoir conflict is over?

What does conflict mean?

Learning about Adrien's depression: 1 and 2

Plagg's Cheese Metaphors in Kuro Neko and Therapy (2/26/22)

Ephemeral

Post-reveal Adrien discovering his "true self"

JUSTICE FOR PUPPETEER 2

WHY PUPPETEER 2 IS SO GOOD FOR ADRINETTE DEVELOPMENT

THE STATUE SCENE IS PERFECT

Note: because of Tumblr's limit on how many links can be in one post, you can go to this page on desktop for a more complete list

And remember kids:

(Credits to @ladyofthenoodle for the sticker)

[miraculous-monogatari]

Sentimonster!Adrien?

Freaking out since the new ladybug episode came out and some people came up with the theory that Adrien is a Sentimonster and it makes a little sense. Just trying to gather thoughts to unscramble and may add on later with more info.

Maybe this is too dark for a kids show but remember the PV! ML was originally supposed to be much darker!

They have been referencing the PV a few times throughout the series too.

Remember the one concept art where Adrien has a cane? He is clearly NOT PERFECT THERE but okay.

Sentimonsters are sentient creatures. Some more elaborate than others. Chat Noir called Senti!bug "perfect".

It was strongly hinted that Emilie was the previous Peacock miraculous holder. Also pointed out the damaged miraculous was the reason Nathalie was getting weaker.

Uhhh. Gabriel very obviously disregards his son's feelings and safety. He exerts the bare minimum to show how much he cares. I think he cares about Adrien the same way he cares about the miraculous book from Tibet: one of the last few "things" left to him by Emilie. He is starting to make me uncomfortable BUT if Adrien was a Sentimonster and not really his son, some of the things that are said by him, especially as Hawkmoth, that sounded contradictory might be less contradictory if he doesn't believe Adrien to be his true son.

Maybe he created Adrien together with Emilie with peacock & butterfly combined and that's why he's more desperate to get Emilie back.

We've seen it pointed out that both Gabriel (in Simon Says) and Astruc (Twitter response to Marinette & Adrien's flaws) called Adrien as perfect. And Marinette/LB said she could never be perfect like the Senti!LB was. Note, he also said Adrien's flaw is that he is not accustomed to the "outside" world. With quotes on "outside".

We've seen many times Adrien mentioning never having friends before.

We have also have seen Adrien Agreste & Marinette's name meaning interpreted.

Adrien is the French variation of the name Adrian, commonly "Of the coast" but less commonly "Dark/Dark Richness". Hmmmmmm. Agreste apparently the word for greyling butterfly, but I couldn't find a good source for that that linked the name meaning but here we go.:

We see Marinette Dupain-Cheng's name translated as "The Girl Who Rises to Make the Bread" which. Makes sense because her parents are bakers.

But uh. What about if you think about the biblical meaning of bread? Where bread = life? There aren't many Bible references in ML but hear me out.

Wow! Bread = miracles in the New testament! But what is fecundity??? I've never heard of that word before.....

HOLY SHIT.

The ability to produce many new ideas. Kind of like. What Mari!LB does with the lucky charms.

I don't know. Maybe... Marinette is going to Pinocchio the shit out of Adrien and turn him into a real boy. Or something like today. A miracle. She wanted to leave Senti!bug (and free, she said) but Mayura made that a bit impossible.

You know who hates and fears being caged up and locked up? Hmmmm????? *ADRIEN*

Y'all. Y'ALL. IT'S MIDNIGHT and I'm sorry that I'm not very coherent and maybe tomorrow I can make more cohesive thoughts. I didn't want to lose my train of ideas so I'm trying to get it all out now. Maybe someone younger and smarter than me can figure out how they all connect. Or I'll try tomorrow when I have time to write down everything in some kind of order.

Sorry for the rambling. Goodnight.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

(different Anon here) I too enjoy reading your ramblings on ML. I have a question about the last one: "Along the same lines, the love square should never be canon unless Marinette gives up Guardianship because Adrien is a liability to the safety of the miraculouses even if he didn't wield on himself. " I don't think I really understand this, can you give an example what you meant or what consequences you thought about this?

Sure! Adrien is basically a sleeper agent. All the senti kids are.

Let's say that Adrien retires while Marinette stays Ladybug. Someone then gets their hands on Adrien's amok and says, "Wait until your wife is home, then murder her and take her miraculous."

As Ephemeral showed us, Adrien WILL do that. His love is not enough to overpower his amok even what it means the end of the world. You could also ask him to tell you all of the secrets of the miraculous and he'd sing like a canary! You don't even need to say please! Therefore, he cannot stay with Marinette because Marinette is the kind of person who will have enemies that want to kill her in order to get her miraculous or the miracle box. The only way to get around those issues is for Marinette to give up her guardianship and her miraculous, turning her back into an ordinary civilian.

I cannot overstate how massive a liability Adrien is to the safety of the world. He is the perfect way to get to Marinette and all of the other miraculouses. If the love square stays together, then Adrien will have access to Marinette at her most vulnerable, meaning that villains don't have to come up with some sort of clever plan to get to her or him or their children. They just have to steal one of his amoks and tell Adrien to do the dirty work for them.

Wearing the amoks doesn't keep them safe, Felix has shown us that. Locking them away doesn't keep them safe because that still means that someone could steal them. Can't destroy them, then Adrien dies. You could post guards on them and pay those guards well, but you'd still have to trust that they wouldn't betray you. You could possibly lock the amoks in a box and throw them into the ocean and pray that no one finds them, but that's still got risks.

Basically, Adrien's free will will never be truly his because his free will is reliant on something external to him, which is horrifying. He will never truly have the undeniable basic freedom to say "no" that we enjoy as humans. He cannot ever say "death first" to protect his wife and children. He will always obey the amok.

Obviously the miraculouses are physical objects too and so they also carry the risks of being stolen, but it's a different kind of risk, imo. If someone gets the black cat, then Marinette and Adrien can team up to try to get it back and you can't hide the fact that it's been taken. Plagg disappearing will be immediately obvious. If someone steals one of the amoks, then you'll only know whenever you try to give Adrien a command and he doesn't obey. Are they going to do a nightly command check to make sure that the amoks are real? Like this is just a very dark setup and I am baffled that they didn't have Gabriel use the wish to undo it.

If you've ever seen Fruit Basket, just think of how Kyo's bracelet is treated and how much that messed with his mother's mental health. I picture Marinette developing similar habits for very understandable reasons.

I try not to overthink stuff in kids shows, but I don't think this counts? Like this was all really obvious to me as soon as I heard the basic concept of the senti theory. A character being able to be mind controlled leading to him being controlled to do horrible things seems really like a natural expectation in a superhero show.

[gentil-minou]

Hi! Thanks for all of your posts about sentiAdrien, it's been enlightening to read. At this point, I'm pretty sure the theory is going to be confirmed and I feel like it's important to be ready to approach discussions like these in a thoughtful way, something you seem to be very good at.

I've seen a lot of people object to the idea of the theory because it takes an abusive scenario some people relate to and have experienced themselves, and gives a 'magical explanation' for it. Some people feel that it the theory being confirmed would mean that Gabriel has some kind of 'justification' for his treatment of Adrien.

My personal thoughts are that the theory might explain some of Gabriel's reasoning without justifying it or making him any less of a shitty parent. But I can see why irl victims might find the idea of 'this abusive situation actually has a magical explanation that adds a whole different dimension to it and that might even give the abuser some semblance of a way to excuse their actions' extremely invalidating.

Do you maybe have any advice on how ml fans can approach the sentiAdrien theory in a thoughtful way without invalidating the experiences of abuse victims who relate to Adrien?

(Sorry if the ask got a bit heavy)

Never apologize for something you are curious about! And I always appreciate hearing what people might be thinking as it gives me insight into real-life concerns.

And certainly, there are a lot of concerns about how this may invalidate or minimize Adrien's abuse or give Gabriel an "easy way out". Abuse victims are already deeply stigmatized and invalidated for their experiences, so I can very much understand the concerns related to how the Sentiadrien theory might make them feel dismissed or their real-world experiences shoved to the side. I completely and totally validate and empathize with those feelings.

I think the best way to explain why I love and advocate for this theory so much is to explain some of my own work. I work with children as young as 6 who have experienced trauma. I have seen cases of both extreme neglect and signs of physical and sexual abuse in kids that age. And let me tell you something, kids that age don't know what abuse is.

It's easy for us adults to be able to see something and identify it as abuse. People caught on to that pretty much from the first episode of the series that Adrien was being abused in some way but his dad. We, who are older and wiser and have the capability to understand the complex situation that is abuse and trauma, can see it and label it for what it is.

In contrast, kids are not developmentally able to. The majority of ML's audience are young kids who are simply not going to pick up on the signs of abuse. And they can't show blatant signs, because they would probably lose their age rating and many of their fanbase because many parents are simply uncomfortable with a topic being shown so blatantly to their children, which is completely understandable to me.

The beauty of the sentiadrien theory is that it provides an example of abuse/trauma without having to explicitly show those themes. The central points, being manipulated and forced to do something, having no free will, being isolated or treated as "other", being neglected by a parent who is literally the villain of the show, are all themes that can be translated to abuse.

Then there's the potential trauma aspect, which I think we have actually yet to go into and most likely won't until after Adrien learns of Hawkmoth's identitiy and his senti-status, that can be addressed through sentiadrien as a metaphor for Adrien. Many traumatized abuse victims, even those who have successfully escaped from their abusers, still sometimes struggle with remaining complex emotions and stress related to the incident itself. Sometimes they even feel like they are still there, like they were never really free or like what little freedom/hope they will have is fleeting.

Here is where I think the sentiadrien theory has the greatest potential for the healing narrative, as getting back his freedom and breaking his chains isn't very different from a trauma survivor being able to overcome their trauma and be free while living their life the way they want to. It certainly doesn't go just how difficult that healing is or the complexities that come with it, but for a kid it gives them hope that the pain and trauma they've experienced won't be forever, that they too can be free.

I want to be able to talk to my younger clients about their trauma and give them that hope in a way that will make them feel like they too are heroes, like their favorite character Adrien/Chat Noir. I want to be able to point out the show and say, "Well this character went through something similar to what you went through. Let's see how he was able to heal."

That's why I love this theory so much. I love that there is an opportunity for a deep and meaningful message I have never seen shown to an audience that young in a way they will be able to understand and apply it to their own tragic situations.

And I love that it gives one of my all time favorite characters the chance to heal and truly be free from his abuse.

I also don't think "justification" fits in this scenario. Are people saying Gabriel is "justified" in manipulating someone against their will, just because they are different from him? I wrote about how we might liken Adrien's experiences to someone who identifies as trans (tw transphobia) and I think that same argument might apply here.

Abuse is never "justified". Are pet owners justified in abusing or harming their pets because they are animals and not human, and belong to them? I would love if someone could explain why they think sentiadrien "justified" Gabriel's abuse towards Adrien. That's not even taking into consideration that Gabriel is very clearly the bad guy. I just have a lot of difficulty understanding how being a senti would justify anything, since sentis in the show are victims just as much as akuma victims are (and in fact they are portrayed that way in cases like Sentibug). If anyone is able to talk about it in a way that they feel comfortable and safe to, I would appreciate seeing the situation from another perspective.

[overworkedunderwhelmed]

For the salt asks: 5 and 27?

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

I often multi-ship, though I am selective. I would have been okay with all the short-lived rival pairings at the end of ML season 3, but for two things:

Luka's white-knighting made me relive me of some old personal trauma from my teenage years and then immediately receiving:

intensely negative hate anons

attacks from fellow fans in multiple Discords

and seeing screed from old fandom friends about how you were an absolute piece of shit if you weren't 100% on board with Lukanette when it canonically happened.

I took a fair amount of time to process my feelings in my own way, but even in my own writing (ie, the way I was processing it), I was constantly receiving negative comments or hate anons if I was perceived to not being "nice enough" to Luka. Even in a pre-end of S3 era story where it was a Love Square public reveal scenario.

If you've wondered why I have way too many WIPs, people going out of their way to criticize me for my end of S3 feelings is basically the root cause of half of that timeframe's works.

I've still not decided how much of those I will bother to wrap up.

27. Least shippable character?

Right now? Gabriel Agreste. I 110% do not want to see the (fictional) man happy, given all that he has done or was willing to do in our etch-a-sketch, end-of-the-world scenarios.

That is not a good way of loving anyone, and shouldn't be awarded with affection.

(2nd Place is Bob Roth, who falls into the same vein, and proves even awful people do often find someone somehow...unless my "all the kids of Gabriel's secret club are Senti" theory proves out.)

Ask me another!