#ml s5 kwami's choice

[wackus-bonkus-maximus]

Oh no :(

OH YEAH.

summary:

Marinette and Adrien give up their Miraculous. Ladybug and Chat Noir never meet again.

excerpt:

“Can you tell me where to find him?” “No.” Plagg’s eyes gleam an understanding that pierces her, shriveling through the years she has wielded the counterpart to his magic. “I can’t tell you anything except that last time I saw him, he looked happy.” “Why didn’t he say anything?” Marinette whispers. Plagg’s green eyes burn her into the ground. “Why didn’t you?”

this au came from me wondering, "what would happen if adrien and marinette never took back their miraculous after kwami's choice?" the idea lived with me for weeks until i wrote it, so here you are <3

hope you enjoy!

[beguilingcorpse]

people complained SO MUCH about kitty noire's design but like. look at her

she has dip-dyed neon green hair and highlighter lipstick to match. she has entirely useless zippers on the upper part of her sleeves. her bangs are totally uneven and look like she did them herself with craft scissors. she's wearing a crop leather jacket over a leather undershirt and SUSPENDERS. zoe lee is 14 years old and designed her cat superhero oc to Kick Ass and if i was 14 i literally would have done the exact same thing

[izanogi]

so that dance scene, huh?

[shapes-nd-colors]

I just finished Perfection and I gotta say I really like the way that Chloes bullying like permeates Marinettes and others insecurities and stuff. Like when Marinette is talking down to herself she says how she's being "ridiculous" over and over and like that's shit Chloe says all the time about her and even though in these later seasons the class like fights back against her bullshit I like that it shows just how much of a negative impact her antagonizing has had on the people around her

[pinkikiwi]

what do you mean lila is the next monarch???? Give it to my poor kwami a break! Jesus!

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

Why were Tikki and Plagg’s goodbyes different?

In "Transmission", after Plagg and Tikki take back the miraculous and free Marinette and Adrien from the burden of their hero lives, their goodbyes to their now former holders are noted to be similar yet different to one another.  In short, their goodbyes were different because what they experienced with their holders was different. Tikki said she will never forget Marinette as she was by far the most amazing holder she had grown to understand and connect with. 

Leaving Marinette was hard for Tikki not only because she grew attached to her, but because Tikki herself had realized Marinette helped her do something she never thought she could do, learn. Since the moment Tikki came into Marinette's life, Tikki took her duty as a kwami very seriously and ensured that Marinette could be properly informed of her duties as a hero.

If Marinette had questions, Tikki was always there to answer to the best of her years upon years of knowledge . When Marinette was nervous and unwilling to accept her new duty as a hero, she would always be there to try and lead Marinette in the right direction and help her take a chance to try and save the day, each and every time something shocking came her way. 

When Marinette fell prey to her own confusion and began to act out in ways that made her attempt to solve problems which did not need solving, Tikki acted as the one who ensured Marinette could hear the reality of her situation when no one else was around to tell her so.

 It was normal for Tikki to be a mature Kwami and act as the voice of reason to ensure her holders would learn and develop the confidence they needed, but in all her years, Tikki never knew she could learn from Marinette as well. In "Dearest Family", Tikki learned the power of self control from Marinette to not allow her cravings for sweets take the better of her and lead her to lose control of herself and her powers. 

When it came to love, Tikki learned that despite not being capable of experiencing such an emotion (since kwamis can’t fall in love), watching Marinette struggle to accomplish success in her love life made Tikki realize that love was genuinely something other living beings valued deeply, but that love could very easily empower or destroy a person.  

(In “Elation”, Tikki watches Marinette break down as she struggles to find a solution to her presumably unattainable love life)

In “Furious Fu”, when Su-Han demanded Marinette give back the box and the miraculous, Tikki agreed to follow Su-Hans every word without question, why?, because abiding by the guardians authoritative ways was all she ever knew she should follow. However, thanks to Marinette standing up to Su Han so many times, Tikki learned you do not need to abide by the book, change was a good thing, and learning to adapt and stray away from what was traditional was often times necessary and better for the changing times.

(Su-Han explains that Kwamis have been managed with extreme authority due to the nature of their powers)

However, unlike Tikki, when Plagg says his goodbye, he instead says that Adrien will never forget him, it was a peculiar goodbye, but looking back on the series, its understandably why Plagg said such words. A large part of Plagg and Adrien's relationship revolved around the two of them obtaining a sense of freedom from each other, a freedom which was restricted to them as a result of who they were viewed as.

Plagg had always been accustomed to causing destruction on his own, eventually, his rebellious nature prompted the order of the guardians to consider him as the only kwami to never be left alone in fear of what destruction he could cause next should he ever accomplish to evade not only them, but whatever holder he was entrusted to.

(Master Fu’s reaction to Plagg wanting to go off alone to help Ladybug in “Style Queen”, as well as Su Hans alarmed and concerned reaction to Plagg not being present with the other kwamis in “Furious Fu”, reveals that Plagg had a complicated reputation among the guardians if and whenever he obtained a moment of freedom.)

Even when he became Adrien’s kwami, Plagg’s experience with others trying to keep him within a close proximity, had prompted Plagg to believe Adrien was still someone he would need to evade if needed. In “Sandboy”, Plagg could not accept the possibility that Adrien would trust him enough to leave his side for the night to attend the kwamis gathering. As a result, Plagg created a sock version of himself in order to fool Adrien so he could have the chance to slip away and return undetected.

However, seeing just how much trust Marinette was willing to give Tikki, regardless of her mistakes, made Plagg realize that their standing with their new holders was much different than those of the past. Plagg had grown attached to Adrien the more he realized how alike they were, but more than that, unlike the guardians, Plagg appreciated that Adrien was more than willing to allow him to do whatever he wanted. 

There were of course some boundaries Plagg had to abide by to not cause a potential disaster like in "Rogercop", but regardless, not once had Adrien made him feel as the kwami who needed to be locked away. Adrien explained to Plagg that he knows what its like to have ones freedom be taken away since he is viewed by his father, and many others, as someone who should be constantly sheltered and restrained from the outside world, preventing him from experiencing the wonders of being free to explore the world and his own life. As a result, and just like with Tikki and Marinette, Plagg had become loyal to Adrien and ensured he could learn to express and act out on his own rebellious nature rather than just sit idly by and continue to be someone else’s well behaved puppet. 

(In “Party Crasher”, Plagg once again tries to persuade Adrien to consider himself by inviting Friends over while his father is out of town)

Adrien’s rebellious nature was something he could not easily express in his civilian form due to the high expectations his father, and everyone else, had of him. His fears of disappointing and potentially hurting others who were willing to love him, restrained him from properly speaking his mind, but ever since Plagg came into his life, Adrien gradually learned to be just as sneaky and mischievous in order to try and accomplish what he wanted for once.  

Some attempts succeeded, such as in "Party Crasher", when Adrien decided to take the risk and have friends over, while others led to consequences, such as in "Megaleech" when his father showed disapproval and anger for Adrien's willingness to join the protest against "Project Oxygen". However, although Plagg is greatly known for being reckless, rebellious and oftentimes arrogant, given the consequences Adrien faced in the past from Gabriel, even Plagg understood Adrien would need to tread carefully if he were to ever defy his father directly.

(In “Risk”, Plagg was worried of  the situation Adrien was about to start with his father. Confronting his father would be no easy matter given how difficult he was to talk to in previous situations)

But regardless of the outcomes Adrien faced, both good or bad, those moments made Adrien learn more about himself none the less, and made him realize that many peoples (mainly his father) demands and expectations of him  were unfair and unjust. These emotions of his gradually built up over time until finally, they surfaced all at once in “Risk”. 

Plagg understood Adrien's way of life was unfair, and even though Adrien knew this as well, such talks would often be kept between just the two of them in fear that no one else would truly understand him, just like how he felt no one would understand his complaining in “Risk” about not wanting to go on the world trip his father arranged. 

However, thanks to Marinette, Adrien understood it was perfectly healthy for him to have feelings which would otherwise break the image of perfection others had of him. Those like Marinette, who knew and loved him, would be willing to understand his circumstances if he took the chance to speak out.

And so, when Plagg said that Adrien will never forget him, Plagg had expressed that although he will no longer be a part of Adrien’s life, he knew Adrien would never forget the time they spent, the trouble they made, the freedom he obtained from being Cat Noir, and the impact he had being with someone like Plagg who wasn’t afraid to take his own happiness into consideration. Plagg showed Adrien he always had it in him to stray from the line that was drawn for him by those who believed knew him, all he needed to finally stray from his original way of life was a push from Risk and the right motivation to keep him going and not go back to the way things were, that motivation being of course, Marinette.

[aalissy]

Yes Hand/No Hand

Andddd here’s the second and final chapter for today! I hope you guys like both! Lemme know what you thought. Ooh, but also please don’t read this if you haven’t seen Kwami’s Choice yet bc it contains spoilers!

AO3

Adrien’s eyes instantly lit up as he spotted Marinette. She was humming quietly to herself, carefully placing books in her backpack from her locker. He practically skipped over to her, desperate to see her after their conversation yesterday. He had gotten her to reveal her true feelings to him yesterday. And, though Adrien now had his kwami back he was determined to be in a relationship with Marinette. 

He loved her. It had just happened so slowly over time that he hadn’t realized it until it was almost too late. She had almost given up on him because of how long it took him to realize his feelings. So, from now on, Adrien was focused on making sure Marinette knew just how much he completely and utterly adored her. 

Plus, it didn’t hurt that he had a new method that helped her to speak her mind.

“Guess who?” He breathed quietly into Marinette’s ear, enjoying her adorable squeak as she whirled around, bumping against his chest lightly.

There was a pretty pink flush to her cheeks as she stuttered, “A-Adrien! H-hi! W-what, um, what are you going here? D-doing! What are you doing here?”

A slow, adoring smile grew on his face as he gazed down at her. How could she be so cute?  

“I’m getting my books from my locker.” 

“O-oh, right.” Marinette bit her lower lip, peeking up from beneath her lashes.

Boy, that look was going to absolutely kill him. Adrien’s heart stumbled in his chest and he allowed himself to get lost in her eyes. How had it taken him so long to realize his feelings were more than just friendship? This felt so familiar.

Slowly, though, as he found himself at a loss for words he saw Marinette’s eyes begin to widen with panic. Shaking his head, Adrien snapped himself out of it before he completely spooked her and caused her to bolt out of the locker room. 

“That’s not the only reason I’m here, though. I was also looking for you.” His voice was quiet and soft. Unable to stop himself, he brushed a stray strand of hair out of her face, his hand lingering on her cheek.

“M-me?! You were looking for me?” Her eyes practically bulged out of her head and Adrien felt suddenly anxious. 

Too much too soon! Snapping his hand back to his side, he scratched the back of his neck, feeling suddenly awkward. Clearing his throat, he said, “Yeah. I, uh, actually had a few questions I wanted to ask you.” 

Marinette still looked tense and ready to bolt. Determined to make her more comfortable, Adrien exhaled for a while before asking, “Did you maybe want to do what we did last time? Remember? With your right hand for yes and your left hand for no?”

Instantly, her shoulders loosened and he felt relief consume him. Slowly, she nodded at him, looking adorably shy. Her right hand came up as an indication of yes and slowly he began to feel nervous. It was time to finally ask Marinette out. 

Sucking in a shaky breath for courage, Adrien asked, “I was wondering if you’d like to hang out with me.”

There was a small pause where his nerves began to get the best of him before her right hand rose again. Joy like he’d never felt before flooded his senses, making him almost envelop her in a giant hug. 

Stifling the urge, he continued to ask the series of questions he had prepared, “Are you free this weekend?”

Faster this time, Marinette’s right hand rose. 

A giant smile stretched across his face at her answer. “Would you like to go see a movie?”

She looked a little dazed at his question and Adrien wondered for a second if she’d prefer something else before her right hand eventually rose. Yes! He was now three for three.

Feeling more confident, he continued, “And would you be alright getting ice cream with me afterward?”

Once again, her right hand rose. Marinette was nibbling on her lip, gazing up at him hopefully. 

This was it. It was time for his final question. Adrien suddenly felt overwhelmed with anxiety. This was the most important question. And, truthfully, it felt like all his hopes and dreams were resting on her answer. 

“A-and is it alright if we call it a date?” He held his breath, crossing his fingers behind his back. Please, please, please ! I promise that I’ll always love you and treat you right, he pleaded in his thoughts. 

Quick as a flash, her left hand rose and his hopes crashed to the floor. Adrien was rather certain that his face fell right along with them. He was flooded with an even worse sense of rejection than he had ever gotten from Ladybug. 

But it didn’t matter! Marinette had loved him for so long whilst he had no idea! The least that he could do was try to be her friend once again. Even if all he wanted to do was kiss her again. Slowly, though, he’d prove that he was the right guy for her! 

He’d somehow manage to calm his feelings down and be her friend first and foremost! But, somehow he’d woo her! If he made her fall in love with him once he could definitely do it again.

Nodding to himself with determination, Adrien opened his mouth to agree that it was too quick. 

Before he could, though, he heard Marinette giggle. “Oh, oops!”

Slowly she took down her left hand and rose her right one. She bit her lip even as she smiled. “S-sorry. I, um, got my right and left confused again.”

Adrien sputtered out an exhilarated laugh. Shaking his head at her amusedly. “You have to stop doing that! There’s only so much my poor heart can take.”

She flushed, looking down at the ground embarrassedly.

“But that’s a yes, then? Yes, it’s a date?”

Waiting with bated breath, he watched as Marinette rose her right hand even higher, nodding her head. Adrien let out a cheer before scooping her up in his arms and twirling her around giddily. He planted a quick kiss on her cheek, enjoying her squeals of laughter. 

“I love you so much!”

Marinette covered her face with both hands, still a mess of giggles when he finally put her back down on the ground. “So, this weekend will be our first date. Can I pick you up at noon?”

She uncovered her face, a bright red flush on her cheeks before she nodded. “T-that sounds wonderful, Adrien.”

Kissing her one last time on the cheek, he sent her a bright beam. “I’ll see you then. I’m looking forward to it.”

Leaving the locker room with a skip in his step, Adrien completely forgot about the books he was still missing. But it didn’t matter! He was going on a date soon! With Marinette! Best day ever!

[rena-rain]

Reacting to Deflagration

Yeah yeah yeah, I'm late to the party, but I can't keep this to myself

...bi Zoe? Lesbian Zoe?? Queer Zoe???

Plagg is such a bro. What a loyal little pile of chaos

High key wondered if I was hallucinating Gabriel's dance scene. DANCE. I haven't seen him move like that since Simon Says!

I am increasingly convinced that Nathalie loves Emilie way more than she loves Gabriel. I'm quite happy with her character arc thus far.

There's another one...and another one...and another one...Gabriel is going to properly lose what shreds are left of his sanity if he keeps using half a dozen miraculous at a time. Marinette got tired just wearing all of them.

This feels like commentary on surveillance. I know that's obvious and an understatement but it must be said.

Oh sure, NOW the writers remember Ladynoir's relationship.

Aw, Nino's sweet in this scene. I'm having such flip-flopping feelings about his character these days.

Creepy. Creepy, creepy, creepy, Gabe. I don't even know why I'm surprised to find him lurking in a school basement spying on teenagers. WHY am I surprised

This lunch date is just the pinnacle of "relationship in exciting early state where every interaction causes unspeakable anxiety"

Is it just me, or is Chloe getting more and more cartoon-villain-ey?

I LOVE ZOE

He's got the miraculous! I don't know how we're gonna get out of this one, folks...Is Sass gonna save the day?

PLAGG'S GOING TO DESTROY HIS OWN RING????????

This is the Plikki content I live for

I was really, really hoping the trash can would bonk him on the head when it came back down

"We'll turn you into singing shoes!" lmao

Okay, Adrien nabbing the earrings is one of the coolest, most cathartic moments in this whole series

We deserved more Zoe and Plagg's relationship.

Ladynoir is BACK BABY - THE DREAM TEAM IS BACK

[zukoandtheoc]

no thoughts, just the stupid fucking dance Gabriel does at the beginning of deflagration

[dadplagg-mamatikki]

You right and you should say it louder.

“They were never in love or in a relationship and neither are we!”

“So far… anyway.”

“Of course not! We just met.”

[ilikekidsshows]

I've recently watched the ML London special and had to think about your words several times. Mostly about Maribug's pity party and coddling.

My negative coddling highlight (which also made me laugh in disbelief) was when Marinette questioned her decision to keep Adrien in the dark to "protect him" and she "had no choice" so Tikki tells her she isn't the Kwami of Truth (???) and Marinette should "stop thinking and take some rest". What the heck. That felt like they wanted to show a worried, sympathetic Marinette, but quickly brushed aside anything else. A simple "we don't know" of the Kwamis would have felt more natural, too, instead that cryptic Kwami of Truth nonsense. Plagg apparently doesn't care much about Adrien anymore now that he's under Marinette's wings, he has shown no emotions or opinion about Adrien's wellbeing. Sad, very sad.

Also, seeing the whole conversation in which Marinette decides that Nathalie has to be Adrien's surrogate mother, while Nathalie was not convinced of that but was ready to go to jail instead....wow. Forced motherhood onto a woman who clearly didn't feel called for that position and who rather atone for her very real crimes... feels kinda sexist to me. Why is Marinette the one to decide that for Nathalie and Adrien? And Marinette and Nathalie suddenly having a bond strong enough for hugging and that shit? Where did that come from? Everything for coddling Marinette, apparently, everyone but the new villain is on her side.

The only scene that felt worthwile to me was the very short moment in which Adrien lashes out at Bug Noire. He finally felt alive and as his own person for the first time in forever (S5 essentially), even going as far as - gasp - making Ladybug uncomfortable. Chat Noir also was completly forgotten the whole special, only to come back into existance for that empty Ladynoir scene at the end in which he has to spout his obligatory "you and me against the world" speech.

I did like the background music, though, and the fighting choreography, which actually made me realize that Ladybug never before has fought hand-on-hand that long on her own. Which, of course, she had to here, since there was no Chat Noir to do it for her this time. I couldn't not think about your "Chat Noir fighter" post then.

Sorry for the wall of text. I just wanted to let you know that I had to think several times about your posts and answers during the special.

---

Thanks for the peer review, Anon! In media analysis, someone watching or reading the work and finding the analysis a good match for the source material is a clear indicator that the analyst has hit a resonant reading.

I think what we have in the Nathalie example is a writers' crutch becoming obvious. I can point several instances where Marinette gets instant or near instant support as soon as she needs it, but the Nathalie situation is extra glaring in how little in-universe sense it makes. Cat Noir propping her up in ‘Origins’, ‘Miracle Queen’ and several other times makes sense; he’s her superhero partner. Alya makes sense, she's her best friend. In ‘Love Hunter’ Luka almost magically drove past and happened to notice she was upset and could drop whatever else he was doing to tend to her instead as soon as she needed someone to cry against. That one is a bit ridiculous, but it was used to set up them getting together later so it feels organic after the fact.

The notoriously stoic Nathalie, who has zero bond with Marinette up until now suddenly holding her more gently than she's ever held Adrien while she cries happens only because no one more appropriate was around to do it instead. It's an escalation. Luka’s super timing was stretching believability so much people started to joke he had actual empathy-based superpowers. With Nathalie, it's completely out of nowhere, but the stans ignore it because the show has made it a staple that someone will always prioritize Marinette, and because they're just so glad Marinette has someone to comfort her because she's such a miserable wretch who never gets enough support. Finally, there's an adult she can count on! Except, Nathalie also starts immediately taking marching orders from Marinette, so it's just even weirder.

It's not that Nathalie is actually being set up as a confidant to make up for her past misdeeds, she's just instantly a Marinette groupie because the writers needed someone to prioritize Marinette's feelings. It functions as a way to make it clear to the audience that this is what they should worry about: how Marinette is feeling. And it worked; just as Adrien started voicing his own emotions, he got shut down by our lead and a big part of the fandom was more concerned about Marinette being upsette than Adrien, who is infinitely worse off than Marinette.

[purrincess-chat]

Hi Cat! May I ask you to rank S5 episodes aired so far? and what did you like the most about each of them?

Finally getting around to answering this now that s5 is officially over. Overall, I'd say s5 was definitely not as bad as people have made it out to be, and I'll share my full thoughts on it later and go over some of the notes I took upon rewatching, but I'd say this season on average was pretty mid? Adrinette hard carried a lot of episodes that otherwise were just okay. Again, I've said it a bunch, and I'll say it a bunch more times, ML's biggest problem is pacing. S5 is probably the most ambitious season of this show by far, and they crammed a shit ton into this one season that would have been more digestible if it were spread out I think.

But anywho, I'll discuss more later. For now, here is my episode rankings for season 5! The ratings are rough, and I will likely adjust them to be a bit more specific when I eventually do my complete episode ranking with all the other seasons, but for now these ratings correspond to how I relate just the s5 episodes to each other. None of them got a 10, and tbh most of these eps sit around 6-7/10, so ranking them was actually kind of hard because as I said, Adrinette hard carried some of these eps, and I just did not care for the other things going on in them. Okay, here we go:

Protection: 9.5/10

Anyone who knows me or is in any way familiar with me probably knows why this episode is here. The picnic will go down as one of Adrinette's iconic moments. The whole set-up was incredibly sweet, and I could stare at that scene for hours.

2. Emotion: 9/10

Outside of thinking that Felix should have come back sooner and that perhaps this should have been the mid-season conflict rather than the Kwami's Choice eps (I'll talk more about why in another post eventually), I really liked this episode. I love how much Marinette has grown. I enjoyed Felix being a lil gremlin man. Idk, I liked it.

3. Elation: 8.5/10

"Cat, but you always shit talk MC-"

Incorrect. I shit talk toxic stans. I'd be lying if I said seeing those two losers kiss didn't make me feel things. I also appreciated the realness of this ep on why they couldn't be together, and that Chat Noir/Adrien had enough respect for Marinette to realize that there was a power imbalance between them. It was very sexy of him.

4. Revolution: 8.5/10

This one honestly surprised me being this high, but so much shit happened in this episode. Like I needed to sit for a sec after watching it because it was a lot to process. While I was rewatching it, I had moments where I was like wait, is this a new episode? But then I'd remember, nope. It's still the same one where all this other shit happened. And weirdly, it didn't feel too rushed? A lot of episodes this season felt like they were moving a million miles a minute and rushing to get to the point, but I felt like for as much shit as went down in this episode, it flowed pretty well.

Also, I'm Adrinette trash so of course I'm gonna rank their first kiss high fucking sue me

Also, hardly anyone talked about the LadyNoir power up! Like hello???

5. Deflagration: 8/10

I know I just dunked on the Kwami's Choice arc, and I will probably do it again because these two episodes were HARD carried by Adrinette. I didn't care about Kitty Noire or Scarabella at all. Their fight was lame, why the fuck did they start talking like that, just, ugh-anyway. I felt like part 2 was the stronger of the two episodes, and not just because of the Ladrien crumb! (though the ladrien crumb was v nice) I enjoyed the Resistance swooping in to help. I enjoyed Marinette outsmarting Gabriel. I enjoyed Adrien ripping the earrings off his dad like how dare you touch her things, you crusty eggplant. I liked the Adrinette scene in the cafeteria. I dunno. I don't think giving up their Miraculous was really necessary, but I appreciated several of the moments in this episode.

6. Passion: 8/10

So, in prior seasons I came to really not care for Nathalie when she was simping for Gabriel, but I gained a lot more respect for her this season. I just kind of wish she'd been like that from the beginning. There to make sure Gabriel doesn't go too far, someone to love Adrien and carry out his and Emilie's wishes. I wouldn't have minded even if GabeNath happened as a result if they were able to talk Gabriel down from his madness and truly let Emilie go in the end. But alas, we didn't. I loved the Adrinette moment in this episode where Adrien just immediately tells her what's wrong. It was such a huge step for him as someone who usually just buries his feelings. And the kwami swap was much better this go round.

7. Jubilation: 7.5/10

My cat is sleeping on my notes, but I remember enjoying this episode. A thought that I had in regards to the fantasy that they saw is that the gift sees beyond the masks, even if they don't. Like, yes, of course they want a life together because they're soulmates. They just can't quite see the whole picture yet. Idk how to explain it, but anyway, it was a cute episode. The nightmare children need to be burned at the stake, but overall, it was nice.

8. Transmission: 7.5/10

Listen. I did not give a single fuck about the new heroes, and their battle was very anticlimactic and lame, but god dammit, the Adrinette in this episode! Adrien audibly recognizing he shouldn't have played with her feelings as Chat Noir. Him seeing his photos in her trash can and telling her he loves her! The motherfucking hand game! Nothing else happened in that ep. It was just them.

9. Determination: 7.5/10

I absolutely loved seeing Adrinette go all pink sparkles when he looked at Marinette, and how Kagami was like stop being a fucking wuss and ask her on a date. As much as I cannot with the statue scene, I loved that Adrien was just like lol yeahhh you kissed me, it was kind of awesome. Like baby boy XD I liked him being lowkey jealous and wanting to be more with Marinette and trying his damnedest to get closer to her when she was freaking out. His patience with her this season has been so sweet.

LN stans can roast me all they want, idc, but I have a lot of thoughts about her switching her affection to CN. Not to say that she doesn't genuinely have feelings for him because I think she definitely does deep down, but I have always seen her pursuit of him this season as a means to run away from her problems. (i.e. her feelings for Adrien) Because she never got over Adrien, and that much was obvious. And Alya even called her on her bullshit. Marinette was trying to force herself to stop loving Adrien by throwing herself at Chat Noir, and while her feelings for him might stem from a genuine place of love for him, she was trying to love him for the wrong reasons. Rather than it being a natural thing, it felt very much like she was only doing it because she thought it would be easier, and she was refusing to face and process what had happened as a result of her loving Adrien. I just wish that the reversal were handled differently. She can and absolutely does love Chat Noir, but in this context, it just felt a little cheap to me. Not as genuine because she was still clearly hung up on Adrien and avoiding that.

10. Multiplication: 7/10

We have reached 6-7/10 territory. A loooot of eps are in this range, so it was actually pretty difficult to rank. I went solely on vibes for this section. Any single scene that sticks out in my memory for each episode were the breaking points on these.

Idk why, but I liked this episode. I loved the scenes of Adrien trying to greet Marinette. I loved everyone getting progressively more bored with waiting for Monarch to show up again. It was cute.

11. Derision: 7/10

Do I think this backstory should have come way, way, way, WAY sooner? Yes. Like s1-s2 sooner. Did I still slurp up all of the Adrinette anyway? ...Well, I'm only human.

12. Evolution: 7/10

I actually skipped this episode in my rewatch to save time because I know it's solid. Bunny Cat was cute. Seeing Gabriel fucking wreck himself because he's an idiot was funny. Alix being the GOAT was fun. Yeah. It was a nice start to the season.

13. Pretension: 7/10

I'm not a Feligami hater like some people. I think it was a bit rushed, but I think that's more of an issue with ML's general struggle with pacing rather than a reflection on the viability of their relationship. I liked seeing how Felix has a softer side because he was always meant to be morally grey. Emotion talked about that a little bit. He had no dog in the fight between Gabriel and LB/CN. He has his own motives for doing what he does, and he's not a bad person, just has done some questionable things to get what he wants. And I think Kagami would be good for him. I loved her roasting him and kicking his ass (and he loved it too).

14. Confrontation: 6.5/10

As the pilot of the Lila downfall plane, you'd think this episode would rank higher, but like, listen. Was Marinette's plan very sneaky and big brained? Yes. Did I enjoy seeing them get caught? Yes. Did this shit need to happen way sooner? Yes! The fact that Alya said with her whole chest in the episode before, "You know we're always ready to believe you." When she fucking wasn't? Like, bitch, your bestie is LADYBUG. Perhaps if she doesn't like someone, recognize that it's for a good ass reason? And I hated how dismissive they were of Adrien when he tried to speak up in that scene too. My honest reaction to Lila being outed was just fucking finally. I rank this one lower as well because they cut a small moment that I wish they fucking hadn't where everyone apologizes to and hugs Marinette after they're exposed. Because they fucking gaslit her for months about this bitch, and she absolutely deserved that apology!

15. Collusion: 6/10

Ya know, I'm not much one to care about Andre. They really tried to paint him as a victim this season, and I just was not there for it. It's okay for him to just suck too. They're all rich, sucky people. It's okay to just say that.

A note I did make that I might talk about later is on the topic of Chloe and her alleged redemption that everyone is mad about and how Astruc just hates Chloe, and I'm not going to say he doesn't. I just think that overall what happened there is when they started planning out future seasons, it was more plot convenient for her to be mean than it was for them to put in the effort to redeem her fully. And looking at some of the other redemptions they've done in this show, we know they would have botched it anyway. They kept her mean because it served their purposes for making things happen. That's it.

16. Revelation: 6/10

For reasons mentioned above in Confrontation, I ranked this episode lower because I wanted to fucking strangle everyone. Everyone in that god damn class knows Chloe is a bitch and always will be. The fact that they all turned on Marinette, including fucking Alya who knows she's FUCKING LADYBUG just ugh. Honestly, when their future plans got fucked in the next episode, I was lowkey like GOOD. Suffer, dumbass bitches! It's what you get! But I'm also just really petty, and I wanted to see Lila finally get shut the fuck up.

17. Adoration: 6/10

This one was fine? Let's go lesbians, I guess. Idk, in comparison to the myriad of other shit going on in s5, this one just felt like filler. Gabriel is an asshole, what else is new? I kind of wish Marinette got a better confession, since, ya know, we've been waiting for it since s1. I wish it were a bigger moment and more heartfelt, but like, eh, I guess.

18. Intuition: 6/10

Seeing Gabriel fuck himself over was nice. Other than that, it was just okay. Get dunked on, you moldy cheeto dust of a human being.

19. Perfection: 6/10

"Cat, did you rank this episode this low because of Adrien's cringy-ass song?"

AND I'D DO IT AGAIN! And the fight was kinda boring. I love Kagami, and she deserved the love in the end, but like c'mon.

20. Illusion: 6/10

A big thing I noted from this episode that became kind of a recurring thing throughout s5 is the illusion of choice. I'll talk more about it in my s5 analysis, but I think that illusion of choice extends to Gabriel's wish too in the end. I did love Nathalie fucking bodying him the second Adrien walked away. It's what he deserves.

21. Destruction: 6/10

This one was fine, I guess. I wasn't super into the format of it being a flashback that Marinette was explaining to Alya at their sleepover after the fact? And that it kind of just glossed over them Cataclysming Monarch, since that was kind of an important thing for this season. ML made some weird choices for big moments throughout this season that kind of cheapened the impact, imo. Idk. Baby girl is smart and all that, we been knew.

22. Representation: 5.5/10

Adrien fighting his dad was the highlight of this episode. You go off, king. The play was incredibly info-dumpy, and I feel like this information should have been spread out more organically. Rather than hinting at all of this shit in s3-4, they should have just sprinkled in these details as actual confirmation back then rather than dumping it all in our laps now.

23. Reunion: 5/10

Listen, this episode wasn't bad, and Adrien being a horse girl is funny, but in the context of this season and compared to the other episodes, this one is honestly just filler. Like, it's cool lore, but feels a bit out of place in this season, especially because she didn't call on her past holders for advice on how to like, idk fight her villain, she called on her for love advice. Just felt very unserious in the context of this season.

24. Conformation: 5/10

This one was fine-ish? The whole finale is definitely the weakest finale we've had. And I've ranked Miracle Queen in my bottom 10, yall. This is saying something. I'll go ahead and continue in my next point because

25. Re-Creation: 4.5/10

Both of the finale eps were just... They happened? I feel like they were pulling at too many threads bringing in everyone the way they did. I feel like the perfect alliance thing was an okay choice? I kind of dislike that Adrien was just no where to be fucking seen for most of these episodes. I know a lot of people are upset that he doesn't know about his dad, and there was no reveal between him and Marinette. Which, no identity reveal, I can live with, but I feel like letting Gabriel make his wish was such a weird choice. I'll talk more about it later, but we've been following this show since s1 and rooting for Ladybug and Chat Noir, and they just let the villain get what he wanted? And you can argue that he didn't really get what he wanted because he died or whatever, but like he got the Miraculouses and made a wish. Stop being obtuse about it. Like what is the ultimate lesson here? What's the message? I'm willing to give s6 a chance, but my future with this show is going to depend on how they unpack some of the fallout of this finale.

And for those arguing over Emilie v Amelie in the ending scene, it was Emilie in the original script and storyboard, and her memorial statue is gone, meaning they no longer have to memorialize her because she's not dead, so unless they randomly decided to not bring her back last minute, that bitch is his mom. Also, they removed a scene where she and Adrien smile at each other, but I digress

26. Migration: 4/10

I'm not going to explain this one, but anyone that knows me, knows why this one is here, and why I didn't care about this episode.

Anywho, my biggest takeaways from this season were that it was a bit too ambitious at times, and I think in general it lacked a lot of the heart of ML. Big moments we've been waiting for fell flat because they got lost in the mess of them trying to cram storylines we should have been getting this whole time into one season. It's not a bad season, and I think it is definitely a step in the right direction. ML just needs to get better about pacing its story arcs so that it maximizes its time and doesn't have to rush through shit to get their point across.

[ijustliketoreadstuff]

For the record, during her fight against Monarch in "Deflagration", Marinette did not have the benefit of the magical suit from her miraculous to protect her, meaning she pushed through whatever pain she felt until the luck charm healed her, the situation was that desperate!

[aalissy]

Balcony

Andd day 25 is doneeee now :). I hope you like this lil identity reveal hehe. I loveeee writing them! Lemme know what you think <3

AO3

All of Chat’s breath escaped him in a whoosh. He stumbled, almost tumbling off of the top of the roof that he was standing on.

He and Ladybug had patrol today. It had gone by quickly and smoothly—no akuma attacks.

That worked for him just fine because Chat was eager to see Marinette. He had somehow managed to woo her back to him as Adrien and now all he could think of was spending every second by her side. Even if she didn’t exactly know that it was her boyfriend that she was talking to. One day... one day he’d be able to tell her.

After patrol ended and he began his journey to her balcony, though, he didn’t notice that Ladybug must have been following a similar path to him. While Chat paused on a nearby rooftop wondering how he was going to invite himself into her room, he heard someone else land on her balcony. 

His head had tilted curiously when he saw that it was Ladybug who was on Marinette’s balcony. Did Ladybug also visit Marinette? He knew that she had given her a miraculous at one point. It wouldn’t surprise him that Marinette had other superhero visitors. After all, she was amazing.

Instead of knocking on Marinette’s trapdoor like Chat had expected Ladybug to do, she instead shouted out her detransformation phrase. Before he could register precisely what was happening or even find the time to look away, he watched as Ladybug transformed into the exact girl that he had been searching for. His eyes widened into saucers and his mouth gaped open.

This led Chat to where he was now. Just barely managing to catch himself from falling off a rooftop onto the ground below. His head was spinning dizzily. Because of course, Marinette was the same girl that he had been in love with prior to realizing his feelings for her. He had fallen in love with her twice and hadn’t even noticed.

Marinette must have heard his stumble on the rooftop, though, because her head swiveled and landed on him instantly. She looked terrified for a brief moment before her expression transformed into one of wary hesitance. 

Chat quickly realized that she must not have been certain about whether or not Chat saw what he did. But he did see it. Suddenly, he was awash with confusion. Should he tell her that he knows now or should he keep it to himself?

Already he was dying to tell her what he knew. He wasn’t exactly sure if he even could keep it to himself. 

But it was time to figure that out because Marinette was now waving over at him. A small, unsure smile was on her lips. “Hi, Chaton.”

He landed next to her, his limbs shaky and unsteady. He gazed down into her blue eyes, wondering how he could have ever missed that they were the same. “M’lady,” he breathed out, the nickname coming out before he could stop it.

And there went his plan of keeping her reveal to himself. His palms itched to slap his face. How could he have messed this up already?  

Instantly, Marinette’s smile fell. Her face fell with it, transforming into one of pure panic.

Chat choked, overcome with the desire to assuage her fears. He didn’t know how to though. But her breaths were coming out in short, quick pants and he knew he needed to do something.  

He placed his hands on her shoulders, squeezing gently as his words came out of him in a rush. “I’m so sorry! I didn’t mean to see anything! I didn’t even realize that we were both coming here! I-I just wanted to see you. We’ll be fine! I-I promise you can trust me.”

After his last sentence, Marinette blinked up at him. Her face slowly cleared and she gave him a stiff, simple nod. “I do trust you.”

Chat breathed out a quiet sigh of relief, giving her a small smile. “Then we’ll be fine. We just have to be more careful from now on.”

Her lips quirked once before she met his gaze, looking slightly nervous. “S-so why did you come to see me then?”

He shifted nervously, scratching the back of his neck. “Well, I sort of just wanted to spend some time with you.”

Marinette’s lips twitched once more before she dissolved into a fit of giggles. She leaned down on her knees, shaking with laughter. Chat joined in hesitantly, her beautiful laughter inspiring his own. 

When she gained control of herself and leaned back up, she wiped a tear of mirth from her eyes. “We just spent a few hours of patrol together, didn’t we?” she asked, her eyes sparkling with humor.

He wanted to sag with relief. She didn’t hate him! This was the best news he could have possibly received. 

“I didn’t exactly know that now, did I?” Chat replied, sticking his tongue out at her.

Marinette stuck her tongue out at him back, crossing her eyes. And, just like that, it felt like everything was back to normal. They were fine. They would be fine. He’d make sure of that.

Shuffling on his feet, he couldn’t help but murmur, “So you’re really okay with this? With me knowing your identity? I know you didn’t want to share them until after we defeated Monarch.”

A long, drawn-out, shuttering sigh left Marinette’s lips. She placed a warm, soft hand on his arm and squeezed it lightly. “You’re right. I didn’t. But I also know that both Alya and Luka have known my identity for a while now and everything’s been alright. We’re also getting close to figuring out Monarch’s identity. I know we’ll defeat him soon. And, like you said, I trust you.”

Chat’s heart soared at her words. There was a smile on her face that left him dizzy with happiness. She trusted him. As both Chat Noir and Adrien. And he trusted her too. As both Ladybug and Marinette. 

It made him giddy to know that they both loved each other this much. They really were meant to be together from the very start.

He threw his arms around her, clutching her to his chest in a tight hug. He never wanted to let her go again. “Thank you, Marinette. I trust you too.”

She giggled and the sound was like music in his ears. She patted his arm and he felt butterflies flutter to life in his stomach. “Of course, mon Chaton. I never would have gotten this far without you. You’re my best friend.”

His eyes clenched shut and he pressed even closer to her. He was struck by an overwhelming urge to kiss her. But he couldn’t. At least not yet. 

He’d have to wait until after he could see her again as Adrien. And even then he might have to wait a little longer until they could share their first kiss since after the Grevin Museum. But he could do it. He could wait. For her, he’d spend years waiting. She was the love of his life.

Marinette was the one to end the hug. Because, at this point, Chat didn’t think he was capable of letting her go. She tugged on his arm, motioning to the trapdoor. “Why don’t you come inside? We can eat some croissants and maybe we could devise some ways to trap Monarch together.”

“That’d be absolutely lovely,” Chat whispered, pressing a soft kiss to her cheek.

Marinette’s eyes widened, a hand coming up to touch her cheek before she grinned at him. She flipped open the trapdoor and motioned for him to go inside. He jumped down, excited to start their journey together. They were going to be stronger together because of this, he was absolutely certain of it. Especially now that he could hopefully help her to sneak away as Adrien as well.

[biastromedae]

you came so far, you two little shits. im proud of you.

[generalluxun]

I'd like to expand on some of this, and contradict a bit in the spirit of discussion. I *don't* think a lot of the terrible choices in S5 can be dropped onto networks or extended contracts. I have several reasons for this:

1)The bible explicitly states *Adrien must never know about his father*. So this is a fixed point for the show. It plays into the 'reverse fairy tale' as well. Adrien must remain the pure trophy princess for knight Marinette. Also- they have spent several episodes explicitly laying the groundwork for *why* Adrien must never know. (The ML writing team never passes up an opportunity to tell us why things *must* go the way they do .)

2)In writer commentary they make a point that the Bugganoire battle was something envisioned from the very beginning. Coupling Bugganoire with 'Adrien must not know' leaves us very little wiggle room for 'fixing' the problems people had with the finalé.

3)If the series were going to end, none of the problems would have to be addressed. The loose ends could be just that, loose and handwaved. Again, the writing team has a history of handwaving. TA himself has intimated there is a 'right' way to interpret ML and things he finds unimportant are simply not to be brought up.

Now- there might be some things that are an artifact of the process. I think how drawn out Chloé's villainy feels is one. Lila, if there was still a chance for more seasons, 'couldn't' be used too soon. So they had to keep going back to that tired well all the while upping the stakes.

No reveal feels like it might have been a change, but I wouldn't weave it in too early in S5. If anything it would be at the end, a part of the victory lap. You can't have a reveal during Kwami's choice then still have all the 'slow adaption and confession angst' that filled up the second half of the season. Once they know each other's IDs, it has to fall into place. That's the romcom promise.

So, you aren't going to be rewriting half a season for an extension. I mean, you could, but not the odd way ML seems to handle things.

“it could mean that they didn't think further than season five and we're about to get a lot of awkward writing.”

Genuinely, I’m pretty sure this exact problem is about to rear it’s ugly head into the plot so hard. Once it becomes obvious enough next season, I think this is about to become the biggest gripe people have with the show.

I don’t subscribe to the “Chloé was rewritten by TA out of spite” theories—however—it is almost **impossible** that season 5 didn’t, at the very least, have the bones of the plot laid out *when it was still intended as the final season,* and then those bones were **heavily** rearranged when contracts were signed for Miraculous Ladybug to continue production beyond that point.

This is quickly having a domino effect on the plot, where storylines are being re-sculpted left and right to somehow tie-up the arc of the previous 5 seasons, whilst still maintaining pre-reveal status quo for the seasons still to come. The most glaring problem with this is, of course, that they had to royally shoot Marinette in the foot to make that work.

I don’t want to put my tin-foil hat on too much, but Adrinette getting together sans reveal is just a symptom of the show continuing past it’s original intended “end of life”. We were likely supposed to get exactly what is holding Adrinette back from being interesting right now—the reveal—in the original midseason finale of season 5 instead of Kwami’s Choice.

What’s an even more cynical thought—if season 5 was the end of the show like intended at one point, there is ZERO chance that Marinette would have even NEEDED to lie to Adrien about his father. *THAT’S* what frustrates me most about the season 5 finale. Not that it’s shocking, not that it subverts expectations, that it’s so glaringly obvious the main character is making a decision simply because the plot for future seasons implodes on itself if she thinks logically for 1.2 seconds. It’s not interesting. It’s only there because they wrote themselves into a corner they never intended to be in 5 years ago.

And as the seasons tick on and on, the cycle is just going to continue to chase itself in circles under the guise of “drama” and “plot”, but in reality the episodic nature of the show means that none of the plot lines will ever conclude in a satisfying way

(Post that inspired this ask)

it is almost **impossible** that season 5 didn’t, at the very least, have the bones of the plot laid out *when it was still intended as the final season,* and then those bones were **heavily** rearranged when contracts were signed for Miraculous Ladybug to continue production beyond that point.

Now that is a theory I can get behind and will even admit to subscribing to. Season five absolutely feels like it was written to be the final season and we know that it was, originally, supposed to be the final season. It's not a conspiracy theory to say, "I think that they may have committed to elements of season five before they got a sixth season and that ended up making season five into a bit of a mess."

I'd be fascinated to know the behind-the-scenes timing of things and what was written before the season-six greenlight and what they were allowed to change after season six became a thing. Things like scripts, lore bibles, and plot lines get signed off on by a lot of people! It's entirely possible that the writers' hands were tied on certain elements of season five. If the leaked, season-five Bible is to be believed, it says that it was signed off by TF1 & Disney and has a date of 1/29/21, about three months before season six was officially announced, implying that major elements of season five may have been set in stone all the way back in early 2021:

[Image description: footer for the leaked Bible reading "Ladybug - Bible FINAL VERSION updated season 5 - approved by TF1 & Disney 1/29/21 - CONFIDENTIAL]

This may mean that the writers literally weren't allowed to make major changes to season five because they'd already gone through the approval process for the overall plot. It's also possible that they could have redone things, they just didn't have time based on production timelines or maybe they did have time and just couldn't think up a new version of season five in the time they had. There's no way to be sure with the limited information we have. Maybe season five is exactly what they wanted it to be!

It's hard to buy that, though, because a lot of the awkward writing makes so much more sense if there was supposed to be an identity reveal at the end of Kwami's Choice. Like why Adrien is worrying about how to tell Marinette that he's leaving, but he never once stops to think about Ladybug. If he knows they're the same person, that's suddenly perfectly understandable.

I also full agree that the lie at the end of season five feels like another stalling tactic and not a piece in a well-crafted narrative. It's really common for the writing to get stilted in TV shows and movie series that get renewed past their expiration dates because no plot can last forever. Even the best writers can't draw a concept out to the end of time and Miraculous doesn't seem have the best writers. Now that they've been greenlit for ten freaking seasons, I think we're in for a wild ride and I don't mean the fun kind. Serious identity shenanigans like the love square are not designed to last for 86+ hours. (The show has 26 20-minute episodes per season, so if you multiply that by 10, you get a little over 86 hours + specials and such.)

I just don't see how they're going to draw out the identity reveal for another five seasons without making the love square a toxic waste dump, but I also don't think that they're ever going to do an identity reveal in the mid game. They're saving that sucker for the end no matter how much it ruins the story. (Watch season six prove me wrong, lol. You never know.)