#ml bibles

[sirani-8927]

I highly recommend giving this a look if you guys want to take a look at the previous concepts and especially the first 4(?) bible pitches. from what i can tell, its a source of all of the stuff the show writers were trying out for miraculous before what we ending up getting and, to me at least, its interesting to see what concepts they kept, tossed, or changed in some way.

My personal favorite bible at the moment is the 10.6.14 since its got the first hints of the Akumaclass we know and love (characters like Nathanael, Juleka, and Mylene), even though most personalities are different from how they are currently. And the full script of the first two episodes, Stormy Weather and Evillustrator. Again, with some changes to the stories. 

The full website is definitely worth a full scrub through. I’m kind of surprised that it's not as big among the fandom anywhere online at all. The Orb is definitely a more interesting concept to me as it gives a reason for the heroes gaining powers in both of the 2012 bibles.

I pulled these screenshots from the 2013 pitch bible, as they both had five powers each and, in this Bible at least, Chat Noir's miraculous was his cane:

Interestingly, Papillion was going to also, In a way, be possessed by the Akumas:

And Gabriel had a wildly different personality to the one we ended up getting:

Once again, I do recommend looking through it on your own, because it's very interesting and one of the most irrefutable archives of pre-show/Ladybug Classic that I’ve been able to find. I'll tag @arcadeology as they own the site, but be warned they aren't canon positive and they post AUs centered around the pre-canon concepts, so if none of that is appealing to you don't bother.

Also, keep in mind the translations will be a bit wonky as they were auto-translated.

[masternia]

⚠️⚠️ATTENTION⚠️⚠️ This is a serious post and I feel the need to talk about so let’s go. This is Ezra Weiz the Voice director (I think that’s the word?) of Miraculous Ladybug. He basically casts all of the lovely voices to the English cast of miraculous. I’m pretty sure everyone by now knows that everything from every script, to episode, to storyboard of season 5 has been leaked. The leaker has NOT ONLY decided to leak all of season 5 BUT HAS ALSO decided to leak all of the miraculous staff INCLUDING winny, Jeremy, Ezra AND the creator Thomas’s phone numbers and possible addresses. It’s one thing to leak a show but to completely dox a whole miraculous cast is wayyyy to far. Whether you like them or not this is NOT okay and will NEVER be justified. It’s plainly wrong. While there’s nothing that we can do it’s important that we are educated on stuff like this. Please do nothing but send love and support to everyone and let’s all hope they are safe and sound.

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

“it could mean that they didn't think further than season five and we're about to get a lot of awkward writing.”

Genuinely, I’m pretty sure this exact problem is about to rear it’s ugly head into the plot so hard. Once it becomes obvious enough next season, I think this is about to become the biggest gripe people have with the show.

I don’t subscribe to the “Chloé was rewritten by TA out of spite” theories—however—it is almost **impossible** that season 5 didn’t, at the very least, have the bones of the plot laid out *when it was still intended as the final season,* and then those bones were **heavily** rearranged when contracts were signed for Miraculous Ladybug to continue production beyond that point.

This is quickly having a domino effect on the plot, where storylines are being re-sculpted left and right to somehow tie-up the arc of the previous 5 seasons, whilst still maintaining pre-reveal status quo for the seasons still to come. The most glaring problem with this is, of course, that they had to royally shoot Marinette in the foot to make that work.

I don’t want to put my tin-foil hat on too much, but Adrinette getting together sans reveal is just a symptom of the show continuing past it’s original intended “end of life”. We were likely supposed to get exactly what is holding Adrinette back from being interesting right now—the reveal—in the original midseason finale of season 5 instead of Kwami’s Choice.

What’s an even more cynical thought—if season 5 was the end of the show like intended at one point, there is ZERO chance that Marinette would have even NEEDED to lie to Adrien about his father. *THAT’S* what frustrates me most about the season 5 finale. Not that it’s shocking, not that it subverts expectations, that it’s so glaringly obvious the main character is making a decision simply because the plot for future seasons implodes on itself if she thinks logically for 1.2 seconds. It’s not interesting. It’s only there because they wrote themselves into a corner they never intended to be in 5 years ago.

And as the seasons tick on and on, the cycle is just going to continue to chase itself in circles under the guise of “drama” and “plot”, but in reality the episodic nature of the show means that none of the plot lines will ever conclude in a satisfying way

(Post that inspired this ask)

it is almost **impossible** that season 5 didn’t, at the very least, have the bones of the plot laid out *when it was still intended as the final season,* and then those bones were **heavily** rearranged when contracts were signed for Miraculous Ladybug to continue production beyond that point.

Now that is a theory I can get behind and will even admit to subscribing to. Season five absolutely feels like it was written to be the final season and we know that it was, originally, supposed to be the final season. It's not a conspiracy theory to say, "I think that they may have committed to elements of season five before they got a sixth season and that ended up making season five into a bit of a mess."

I'd be fascinated to know the behind-the-scenes timing of things and what was written before the season-six greenlight and what they were allowed to change after season six became a thing. Things like scripts, lore bibles, and plot lines get signed off on by a lot of people! It's entirely possible that the writers' hands were tied on certain elements of season five. If the leaked, season-five Bible is to be believed, it says that it was signed off by TF1 & Disney and has a date of 1/29/21, about three months before season six was officially announced, implying that major elements of season five may have been set in stone all the way back in early 2021:

[Image description: footer for the leaked Bible reading "Ladybug - Bible FINAL VERSION updated season 5 - approved by TF1 & Disney 1/29/21 - CONFIDENTIAL]

This may mean that the writers literally weren't allowed to make major changes to season five because they'd already gone through the approval process for the overall plot. It's also possible that they could have redone things, they just didn't have time based on production timelines or maybe they did have time and just couldn't think up a new version of season five in the time they had. There's no way to be sure with the limited information we have. Maybe season five is exactly what they wanted it to be!

It's hard to buy that, though, because a lot of the awkward writing makes so much more sense if there was supposed to be an identity reveal at the end of Kwami's Choice. Like why Adrien is worrying about how to tell Marinette that he's leaving, but he never once stops to think about Ladybug. If he knows they're the same person, that's suddenly perfectly understandable.

I also full agree that the lie at the end of season five feels like another stalling tactic and not a piece in a well-crafted narrative. It's really common for the writing to get stilted in TV shows and movie series that get renewed past their expiration dates because no plot can last forever. Even the best writers can't draw a concept out to the end of time and Miraculous doesn't seem have the best writers. Now that they've been greenlit for ten freaking seasons, I think we're in for a wild ride and I don't mean the fun kind. Serious identity shenanigans like the love square are not designed to last for 86+ hours. (The show has 26 20-minute episodes per season, so if you multiply that by 10, you get a little over 86 hours + specials and such.)

I just don't see how they're going to draw out the identity reveal for another five seasons without making the love square a toxic waste dump, but I also don't think that they're ever going to do an identity reveal in the mid game. They're saving that sucker for the end no matter how much it ruins the story. (Watch season six prove me wrong, lol. You never know.)

[nobodyfamousposts]

We're getting our hands on a TON of pre-canon bibles now that were pitched by Astruc/Zagtoons and then micromanaged by the networks they were shopping to? (Looks like TF1 and Gloob had and continue to hold particularly strong sway here) and… Chat does seem to be treated as Ladybug's partner in earlier drafts. Felix/Adrien actually did things and was treated as a deuteragonist, with motives other than just romance and more powers, and as aspects of Felix's character got rejected/rewritten he gets turned into canon Adrien. Like the piano and martial arts were originally hobbies, not lessons. Fine/performing arts is listed as a particular passion and he wanted to be a scientist. Pre-canon stuff has him willing to stand up to Chloe and tell her off for bullying. He DID actually get mentored by Fu in other iterations and that got cut out. The development of his friendship with Marinette was originally a key storyline.

I've seen some of those. And it just...boggles my mind that they had all these powers and character aspects and storylines already set up and just...chucked all of that out the window.

These plots practically wrote themselves! They were RIGHT THERE! So much development and growth and characterization to be had!

I think it's why Felix is so popular. And why so many fans are hoping for a reboot that brings those lost concepts back.

[starguardianniom]

Adrien and Marinette screwing each other's character development

That's literally what happened in season 5.

5 seasons of Adrien trying his best to break free of his dad's abuse and control only for Marinette to honors Gabriel's wish and make him believe he was a hero and a good parent, despite having front seat at his abuse, on top of fighting him, and Gabriel made the both of time cry. So now Adrien will forever think his father was a good man, when he was not. He will like his abuser, when the last episode showing them together has Adrien showing nothing but hatred toward his father for thinking he knew better for him when he was just doing what he wanted Adrien to do and not what Adrien wanted himself.

We spent 5 seasons watching Marinette trying and failing to confess to Adrien, only for him to confess to her instead which rendered kind of all her efforts pointless, on top of not having to learn the many lessons that she should have, like regarding his private life, or start seeing him as a person and not a perfect angel who can't do no wrong. They even had some jokes at her behavior, behavior that they later learned was because she had a traumatic experience which made her decide that the next poor sod that would catch her attention would not be permitted to have a private life whatsoever, just because she made an error of judgement and didn't listen to her friend's warning, something she keeps doing repeatedly during the series. She just gets her boyfriend and never has to change her behavior, and he doesn't get to maybe get mad or creeped out at all the stuff she did for him while she could barely speak to him, let alone struggle to stay close less she ran away out of being scared to ask him out. So her toxic behavior also doesn't get to be toned down. Biggest example is after learning that Gabriel is Monarch, she goes to speak to him because she wants Adrien back, not to stop Monarch once in for all. She has to when he finds her in his house and she can't hide much longer.

The main difference, Marinette has been aware since forever that Gabriel was pretty controlling with Adrien and got depressed over it several times since it meant she couldn't hang out with him. And she still sided with his abuser because she didn't want Adrien to deal with the backlash of knowing his father was the local terrorist of the city. A guy she spent 5 season fighting, and spent the last episode of season 5 beating up because he prefered to go with his crazy scheme instead of respecting his wife's last wish. And she decides to respect Gabriel's last wish instead of being honest with Adrien and the rest of the city, which I'm sorry to say, is beyond horrible of her. People deserves the truth, so does Adrien, stop coodling him like his father tried, he doesn't need it.

Meanwhile Adrien just learned in the last season that she had a crush on him. And saw her doing some pretty weird stuff, but never truly saw the real depths as to how far Marinette was willing to go to get his love. He didn't see her bully Kagami, he didn't see her lie and manipulate her parents to make her follow him to Shangai and abandoning her uncle on his birthday just to go stalk him, among other stuff. So he isn't aware of the worst of Marinette, and half of it he thinks she's just weird because to him that's how she's always been, weird and quirky but still charming and cute somehow.

I kind of just realised that while reading other posts about those subjects and just saw that they both ruined each other's development, Adrien unintentionally and Marinette, intentionally.

EDIT: chocolatevoidpizza made me realize I was victim blaming Marinette for the cruel prank she went through in Derision via the line "just because she made an error of judgement and didn't listen to her friend's warning".

That is unfair on Marinette and I apologize for writing that and take it back.

I however won't delete it cause I need the reminder to not have a repeat of that and I need the lesson.

So thank you chocolatevoidpizza for opening my eyes and knocking sense back into me.

[theerurishipper]

I still remember when s5 bible leaked and in it, the ending stated : "Marinette will lied to Adrien about his father and she will use his amok to change his perspective toward his father." Or something along the line since I forgot the exact line.

And people were like "Lmao, there's no way she will do that. She knows Gabriel is a bad father."

Except now it's trully happened and people saying "She did it for him, out of love!" And "Even if she did give him command, "be yourself" isn't a bad command anyway" as if the idea of someone giving other a command isn't inherently wrong. Not a suggestion or motivation, it is a command! She has no business to control Adrien's life, even more so since she only know a surface level about his life.

Just because Adrien said "Only Marinette understand me" doesn't necessarily means she trully understand him, especially when she barely talk to him prior dating and her understanding of him is mostly from the magazine (and I bet a groupie group).

I don't think the bible mentions anything about Marinette using the Amok. I just read it through right now and it doesn't mention anything about the Amok, so it's up to personal interpretation. Personally, I don't believe Marinette used it, but the scene itself is rather ambiguous on that front. And the show is so broken in its view of the morality of using a mind control device on a fellow human that I wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed that she had done it.

But if people who believe that she did it are defending that decision, that's fucked up. There's no justification for controlling someone's mind like that without their consent. If she wanted to help him be himself, she could let him figure himself out on his own terms and support him, or she could, you know, ask him if he would like her to help him that way. At the very least, doing it with his full and willing consent is better than essentially violating his autonomy and free will.

Marinette does know that Gabriel is a bad father. She may not know the extent of it, perhaps, but she does know that he locked his son up for years and controlled his mind with a magic ring for years, and she still makes the choice to respect Gabriel's wish and lie to Adrien. There is no justification for this, I'm sorry. There just isn't. "Doing it out of love," is the most pitiful and frankly ridiculous excuse there is. Gabriel was also abusing Adrien "out of love." That doesn't make what he did any less horrible.

And you're right that Marinette doesn't understand or know Adrien that well. The show likes to tell us that she understands him like no other and that he feels free with her and all that BS, but it doesn't show us that. What it does show us is that Marinette does not have a clue that Adrien isn't perfection personified until Risk, after which she never put in the effort to get to know him as a person ever again. Instead, he chose to pursue her and literally felt obligated to change himself for her sake. Which is like, fucked up, cause his narrative is about learning that he doesn't have to change himself for other people and he's explicitly trying to be the perfect guy who asks nothing of Marinette for her, and the show pretends this is all fine and dandy.

This is a very unhealthy relationship, even more so now that Marinette is gaslighting Adrien into loving his abuser. This is super fucked up.

And for those who believe this will be dealt with in the future, the bible does have this to say:

So much for that lmao.

Thank you for your ask!

[iwasbored777]

Girl which mom???!!! You have twenty of those 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[yeet-noir]

ALL I am asking for is the season finale to be HEAVILY focused on the trials Marinette and Adrien will face as heroes and THEIR fight with Monarch. Please that’s all I want.

[crocojagged]

Free yourself from putting Canon on a pedestal. Take what you like from a source material and ignore/reject what you don't. Canon is neither the final objective truth nor the worst dumpster fire of all time. It is merely the take on the story and characters with copyright and financial backing behind it. And there is never truly one Canon anyway as multiple intentions bleed into the work and multiple perspectives interpret the work in turn.

[familyagrestefanblog]

Correct me if I am wrong (APPROPRIATELY THOUGH), but regarding the "Civilian Marinette gets slammed into concrete wall by Monarque to the point where the WALL breaks but somehow Marinette is still fine" in Déflagration, I do remember now that people are bringing it up that back when I read the leaks these two times that Kwamis Choice was described very differently in it.

I guess watch out, 100% outdated leak spoilers or maybe even not entirely correct memories of mine ahead? For this episode you already saw because it aired?

Zoe was Sole Destroyer + Kwami power of destruction (which makes ALOT more sense), Monarque had his own Lucky Charm (which is also something I found sad didn't happen in Canon) but most importantly, I swear to God I believe remembering that the initial Lucky Charm created by Tikki WAS the Ladybug-disguise suit with which Marinette could return into battle even without her Miraculous.

Cause I remember reading what Tikkis lucky charm is and immediately going "yeah that makes sense, that's how Marinette gets into battle" and that definitely wouldn't be the case if it had been a bin. So I do believe the initial Lucky Charm was a suit which is probably the reason why the wall-slamming moment is a thing in the first place.

Initially the magical lucky charm suit probably WAS supposed to be the explanation for why Marinette can endure that as civilian (which in my opinion would have been a perfectly fine explanation, I can work with a magical lucky charm suit) but then at some point Kwamis Choice got a massive rewrite and now we have a couple of awkward leftover elements of the old version that feel off in Canon (like Chloé for some reason getting akumatized into ZOÉ'S akuma form. Switch-arounds like that normally do not happen).

Of course the wall-slamming moment is the worst offender in this regard cause holy SHIT that should have killed civilian Marinette 10 times over! The show is normally pretty consistent with not overpowering civilian characters or making them realistically vulnerable in comparison to the Miraculous Holders ect, so that moment didn't just break every bone in Marinette’s body, it also broke LONG established world building.

I do wonder what caused this massive rewrite though and why old moments like this were still kept despite of not making sense anymore. The initial script also seemed to have been a stronger story, especially Zoe/ Kitty Noire wise.

[sweetcloverheart]

For you, what is the worst case scenario for how the fandom (or Astruc defenders) might react to the finale and what is the best case scenario?

(I'm suspecting anon is potentially spamming because I've seen this question on multiple blogs already and seemed to come right after the first on sent, so I will only answer this one as I do want to give my opinion)

Genuine best case scenario - the upset generated by the finale ends up becoming a bridge between the Salters, Sugars, and Neutrals that ultimately unites them against S5 and all the discourse it's generated (much like what happened with GOT with it's own finale and the HP fandom against JKR) because I honestly want to believe no fan in their right mind would consider that kind of end satisfactory in any scenario. At the very least, the AU and Rewrite fandoms will be eating well for a long time until S6 descends

Worst case - we end up with a Voltron finale scenario where the fandom becomes even more splintered and the discourse starts spilling into the real world to the point we get NYT articles about it in the following years. The term "Miraculous Fandom" ends up becoming synonymous with very unhinged and genuinely terrifying behavior and it will take everyone a long time to recover

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“After seeing the Bible Leak from Miraculous season 5, I’m really glad I dropped the show since it’s just getting worse and has officially become the next Voltron as far how disturbing it has gotten😖 (especially with the weird moral double standards both shows seem to have).”

[lesbiangiratina]

What are you up to.

[billiejean485]

Me, who read the leaked ML bible, watching all of you make one consistent huge mistake in believing something is going to happen in the future and I can't tell you anything about it.

[dizzying-faust]

Personally, my problem with leaks, aside from how it ruins the surprise or how it can hurt people's enjoyment of the shows, is when you have a fandom full of people that are negative Nancy's/salters/"criticals"/etc. it's that time they become even more annoying about being negative.

[starguardianniom]

Now that I think about it, at the end of season 5, at the very least 5 people on the miraculous team knows that Marinette is Ladybug. Alya, Kagami, Felix, Luka and probably Alix with the time travel stuff. Meanwhile Chat Noir still doesn't know. Somehow it annoys me to no end.