#misrepresented morally grey

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

The Finals for Misrepresented Morally Grey are here!

In One Corner, we have the Super School Subject: Math!

And in the Other Corner, we have the Supposed Morally Pure "Girlboss" from the Morally Grey Murderer Series, MILGRAM; Yuno Kashiki!

[morallygay]

So yeah like i said: girlboss

[antispopausandstuff]

aside from Adora and Catra...

.

Glimmer - too much potential wasted. her relationship with her mother is never fully realized and developed, her friendship with Bow feels oddly surface-level and like it's relevant only because Glimbow is a thing, and i personally don't like how the whole conflict between her, Adora, and Shadow Weaver was written.

Bow - the black best friend, nothing more to him. every opportunity of development was wasted, and he just ends up being a supporter for everyone else ( mostly his lighter-skinned friends ) with no arc, no importance, and no actual happy conclusion beyond ending up with Glimmer, who he had no legitimate romantic chemistry with. his backstory and the arc he had were so interesting to me, but no one did anything with them. that, and he honestly wasn't as angry or on guard with everyone as he should've been, in my opinion.

Mermista - i would've thought she was just another black stereotype, but she's apparently Southeast Asian, so never mind that, i guess. predictable, doesn't seem to care for Salineas at all, her relationship with Sea Hawk is forced and creepy, the only time i've seen her invested ( as far as i recall ) in anything was when Salineas was destroyed, which she didn't care about after 5 minutes, and the stupid Mermysteries episode.

Sea Hawk - unfunny, nonsensical, and creepy. serves no purpose other than to be a romantic interest for Mermista and occasional supposed comedic relief.

Perfuma - eugh. toxic positivity, two-faced, and simply a hypocrite. none of these issues are realized or resolved, resulting in her spouting bullshit about friendship and its 'powers' while she continues treating people she doesn't like ( namely Entrapta ) like trash. completely oblivious or willingly ignorant and irresponsible with Plumeria.

Entrapta - very much wasted potential. severely infantilized by both the writers and cast, even in her design, only considered 'morally grey' because her 'low empathy' ( i tried to look up the scientific name, but all that came up were misinterpretations of autistic people, NPD, sociopaths, and psychopaths, so. ) isn't portrayed well and misrepresents, and it gives a bad taste in my mouth that her time in Beast Island is entirely about her 'not understanding friendship' and not at all about the fact she was betrayed and sent to die. i'm equally for villain or reformed Entrapta, either one is very nice to see from other creators.

Frosta - gonna be honest, though i prefer her character introduction over how she is in the rest of the show, she's kinda an ass for no reason. kinda felt like they were trying to make a 'Toph' like character without understanding Toph at all. there's no explanation for why she feels the Horde isn't a threat to her, especially considering that the two noticeably Horde members ( Catra and Scorpia ) invaded only because Frosta let them, then pinned the blame on Adora for 'causing a scene' at her party?

Spinerella & Netossa - we don't know much about them, and we know nothing about their Kingdoms. literally nothing. we know Net is a strategist and doesn't take shit from anybody ( even if that only came s5 ), but Spin doesn't seem to have... much going for her? i didn't like the "calm lighter person angry darker person" thing they did, that wasn't cute, and i didn't like the thought of Netossa using the fact that Spinerella was involved in a cult and chipped as a way to avoid doing chores in the future.

Scorpia - honestly, there's so much we don't know about her that it drives me nuts. i really wish that we had Catra actually earn something for once, and it would've been awesome ( and tragic, considering s3-s4 ) if it was Scorpia's love, trust, and respect. a lot of her lore is just said, not even really referenced or implied, and hardly ever shown, if at all. and i would've loved her to be called out for her enabling by someone other than Lonnie, since... well, that's kinda just hypocrisy, isn't it?

Angella - ohhh, how she hurts me ( /pos ). one of the better written characters, but still had wasted potential and should've been respected much more, even if it wasn't going to be by Glimmer. dying // being trapped between dimensions while believing that you had been a coward all this time when you actually weren't and not being able to reunite with your husband because he turns out not to be dead is fucking tragic, and, at the very least, her death deserved to be respected and remembered.

Micah - uhh, man, where do i begin with this one? kooky man trope in the beginning, that wasn't cute. don't even recall why he was on Beast Island to begin with. he only got to grieve his wife for a minute or two. the rest of his character either has to do with just being a dad ( when Glimmer isn't even there ) or being chipped, so yay. also, for a supposedly women empowering show, they changed Castaspella from being one of the best sorcerers on Etheria to Micah. and also made them related, with him being the older brother. hm.

Castaspella - speaking of. she's just the unbearable aunt until s5, and even then, she doesn't have much relevance to the plot. the show also made her dynamic with Shadow Weaver fucking weird for no reason. just make them similar ages, if that's the case, you cretins. there's not much input from her about Micah's supposed death, even though, according to the show, Angella doesn't talk to her, for some reason.

Shadow Weaver - RAAAAAH ( /pos )!!! i'mma say it, she was another one of the better written characters and i love her. that said, she does fall under the 'would you look at that, your racism is showing' still, for similar reasons to Hordak and Horde Prime. basically, the bad people... the colonizers... are black. yeah. okay. also, demonizing disfigurement ( ableism ) is not cute, go fuck yourself 🤍.

Hordak - wasted potential, 100%, and could've been an angsty badass bastard if it weren't for how weak the writers made his character. instead of a domineering, powerful lord, he's kinda just a sad blanket that's sometimes cruel and effective. also deals with the racism and ableism issue, wooo.

Horde Prime - ...he's boring, made to sound smarter than he actually is, and falls under the racism ( and potentially under the ableism? ) category, second verse same as the first.

Wrong Hordak - i don't appreciate how he was never taken seriously, in terms of his traumas and struggling to come to terms with it, meanwhile everyone was catering to Catra's. that, and i don't like his name. i prefer calling him 'Horro'.

Lonnie - angry black woman trope. again. is also a bully, never gets that resolved, and somehow ends up with her victim and her enabler?

Rogelio - ... i don't know what to say about him, to be honest, aside from him enabling Lonnie's bullying and not really having a reason for it, considering he's supposedly Kyle's friend. oh, and the fact the only mute character ( apparently he has a speech impediment??? but i don't recall him ever talking??? ) is a big lizard is also not cute.

Kyle - 'everyman' trope, but i love him, and he deserves better than the abuse he faces for literally just existing, and i love when people acknowledge him. i genuinely feel like he deserved either a way out or a villain arc, i don't care how unserious it sounds.

DT - 🤮!!! only non-binary character is a lizard, a creep, act smarter than they are, and simply a plot device for future Catra angst and setting up drama between other characters for no reason.

Flutterina // Peekablue - does it even matter? they're not even real, apparently. ...okay, fine. Flutterina is just a damsel in distress who's pretended ( by the writers ) to be bigger just because it's DT in disguise, and Peekablue could've saved me a lot of headaches if he was introduced to the series earlier. but then again, they never used his abilities when he was introduced, so never mind.

Huntara - repeat after me, everybody: 🎉WASTED POTENTIAL🎉 just like the Crimson Waste, Huntara's character isn't ever explored beyond one episode and, half of the time, it's not even taken that seriously. she could've been an interesting foil or parallel to Adora.

Mara - tragedy. pure tragedy. i think there were a lot of missing details, but i still really like her character and her story ( except for the finale, but i honestly don't consider that the real her? maybe i'm just nitpicking and favoring, though ), and i will always believe she deserved better.

Light Hope - this might get me some heat, but i think she deserved better, too. i would've loved if her character was taken to a 'chained by protocol' route ( COUGHtotally not because i did the same thingCOUGH- ), especially since there were moments we saw her warmth and friendliness, and her attempt to comfort Adora was always kinda nice for me. i get that most people don't like her, or only like her because of her interactions with Mara, but after knowing of how she ( he ) was in the original, i feel like she was wasted and used as an obstacle.

Madame Razz - uhhh... i mean, kooky old grandma trope. once again, lots of waste of potential, especially considering i'm pretty sure that, in the original show, she's the reason the Rebellion could even hide in the Whispering Woods in the first place? or at least part of the reason.

Swift Wind - i prefer elegance and wittiness over this, sorry not sorry.

Imp - i mean. he's. there. that's kinda it.

Melog - deserved sooooo much more than just being Catra's therapy cat. lore was never utilized, the entirely wrong person was comforting them ( Catra. you cannot tell me an overtly aggressive, hostile person would be able to actually help an alien creature that doesn't trust anyone. especially since Catra has no positive relationships. why is she suddenly calm in the face of someone she attacked? ), and they're just an excuse for a 'shipper friend'. that, and i really wish that Melog was able to have an amazing transformation after Adora heals them, like in the original. Melog could've been a great friend to Adora and co. and a powerful asset to the Rebellion. someone talked about the possible trans metaphors Melog could've had and i am FERAL.

essentially, the show's writing is basically:

you had potential. and you fucked it up.

[bitter-sweet-coffee]

Sounds so much clearer when you put it like that. It's not overly sappy,but it's also not a problematic ship! Good to know

hi anon thank you but please never ever use the word “problematic” again. please. i am not being aggressive or condescending, and i don’t just mean this just in terms of my posts. rant incoming, don’t take it personally i promise i’m not mad at you.

please, everyone reading this, STOP using “problematic” to unironically describe pieces art. there are better words.

if a ship is abusive, as in, depicts an actual form of abuse that you can match to the real legal and psychological definitions of abuse, call it an ABUSIVE ship. not problematic.

if a ship is something that a lot of people write poorly, in a way that glorifies abusive behaviour, call it a POORLY WRITTEN abusive ship.

if a ship contains something like an imbalanced power dynamic or significant age gap that is intended to be negative, call it a PREDATORY ship.

ultimately, when people use the word “problematic” they are reducing an entire conversation about form, content, and immersion, to an inappropriate bastardization of what it means to engage with art. you are LITERALLY fucking with the integral structure of the art-artist-audience relationship which transcends all mediums.

if a ship at its core is flawed, then say that.

if a ship is portrayed in an intentionally unhealthy way, as this is part of the message an artist wants to convey, then SAY THAT AND DON’T EQUATE THE ARTIST TO THE CONTENTS OF THEIR WORK! rather, engage in a discussion about how this can develop characters or tie into larger themes. alternatively, you can discuss the approach the artist used, how you view their methods, and state your opinion on how effective you find the outcome to be.

and most importantly, if a ship is written poorly because the author unintentionally glorifies morally grey or even immoral behaviour… this is still not problematic. it is inevitable, because everything that exists is capable of being misinterpreted or misrepresented. do not attack a person for what they do not know, instead, use this as an opportunity for an educative dialogue. or just block them idgaf

the moral of this response: please, if you find yourself using the word problematic, stop. think about what you actually mean to say. do not generalize, because that’s how you get art which depicts and endorses immorality equated to “someone’s au that i saw on twitter made sonic an alcoholic which promotes underage drinking, and i want them to leave the internet before they poison the innocent minds of children and trigger a bunch of recovering addicts” when these are not NEARLY the same thing.

shadow and infinite are morally flawed, as everyone is. you can write them being abusive. you can write them being so abusive that it borders on snuff. you can also woobify them and ruin their characters in the process. or, you can do what i do and throw in a bit of everything with a splash of insane lore and references to other media. BECAUSE THIS IS HOW FICTION WORKS!

fiction is a sandbox. you can build a castle, draw a dick in it, flood it with water, eat the sand, craft it into glass, shit on it, or leave without contributing anything. but regardless of what you do, it is a sandbox. don’t reduce it to just what one person did with it.

[fantasyinvader]

I think I just reached a point of numbness with this whole thing. It just comes down to the fact these localizers saw the original script and for some reason decided to alter it. They tried to make Edelgard a hero in line with the rest of the game, that her route is all about the power of friendship and all that jazz... except they should have known that wasn't what the game was saying.

I think about the end of White Clouds, where Edelgard tells Byleth that she wishes Byleth could have been swayed by her words and actions. In the English, she says she WOULD have done anything for that to happen, but in the Japanese she admits she was trying to sway Byleth. It's the game admitting that whatever she said to Byleth in that route, she was attempting to manipulate them which backs up with Jeralt says earlier when he met the Flame Emperor. Her words were meaningless because they were never truthful.

Oh, right. They also changed Cornelia's “We thought Edelgard was dancing to our tune, but really she made us dance to hers” to just saying that Edelgard was their puppet in order to downplay the manipulation, but to try and downplay “Edelgard was tricked by a bunch of racist goth assholes into killing Rhea” by making the Church needs to be “rehabilitated” rather than restored.

And then there's her S support, where she says that up until that point she was walked the path of hadou. That's her saying she has used her power to impose her will on others, it's not meant to be a good thing. S supporting her reveals to the player that they chose to side with a tyrant after the route made it very clear that Edelgard lies and keeps her allies in the dark about what's really going on. But the localizers saw this and changed it to her walking a solitary path instead, invoking sympathy rather than smacking the players in the face with the cold hard truth. This leads into how that ending is supposed to reveal that Edelgard's reforms were designed to push people to be “independent” in the sense she wants them to self-reliant in spite of her big speech to Rhea. Her reforms invoke the same ideals she spouts to Dimitri in Moon, so instead it's changed to her striving for a “free and independent” people (Just ignore Hubert putting down rebellions in the shadows) to make it appear as though she had actual character growth thanks to Byleth, rather than her lying and faking it while hiding her true beliefs.

And of course, the example of the Japanese version of Verdant Wind having Edelgard admit her ideals AREN'T like Claude's. You know, Claude's “I want to create a world where people aren't othered based on their beliefs and places of origin.” Edelgard wants to impose her will upon Fodlan, getting rid of anyone who opposes her in what would be considered genocide. Her ideals are not like Claude's. Claude's are actually something good, so of course the localizers make it sound like Edelgard isn't too different from Claude despite being a genocidal dictator.

They had these kinds of things, stuff that should clue players in that Edelgard is not a good person and needed to be stopped... and they decide to try and say “No, she's a good person. She'd be just like Claude and Dimitri if you help her. This is morally grey everybody.” Except the game wasn't meant to be morally grey, Edelgard was the villain all along. Trying to change that messes up the messages, themes and whatnot of the game even if the localization tried to erase the themes. Hell, they even tried to alter the script and blame the Church to back up Edelgard's fraudulent claims when the game has themes about seeing the truth and not being swayed by propaganda. And in the process, they inadvertently gave justification to the Agarthans even when they were supposed to be nothing more than Saturday Morning Cartoon villains.

I swear to god, the translation was pretty much a fanfic itself, and not a good fanfic either. It's like one that misrepresents the source material, like stories where Shinji Ikari is a complete badass outside of Super Robot Wars.

[lilithfairen]

So I just saw the funniest shit, and that's someone declaring Loghain Mac Tir from Dragon Age: Origins to be "the most morally grey character in the DA series" in an idiotic rant against Veilguard (which I won't reblog because it contains vague and blatantly-misrepresented spoilers in it).

And this is funny because there is absolutely no fucking universe in which you can say that Loghain Mac Tir is "morally grey" without showing what an utter piece of garbage you yourself are. Loghain Mac Tir in Origins is an utterly vile person. He betrays his liege, his allies, and his army, directly causing the deaths of numerous soldiers under his command and countless deaths across Ferelden at the hands of the Fifth Blight. He seizes power for himself and hunts down those he frames for his actions. He allies with and by extension enables numerous individuals who perform vile, amoral actions in their own right. His motivation for doing all of this? His own narcissism and his xenophobia towards people who were fighting a mutual threat alongside his country.

And the best part about this particular screed?

He tried to do right in his own way, but he failed and made a terrible mistake which he realises in the end, and he accepts the players judgement to be executed or to join the Wardens.

No he fucking doesn't. He is defiant to the end, and only submits when he is fully aware that he has been utterly defeated—politically and in direct combat. The only way in which he grows into a decent person is through the player forcing him to join the Grey Warden and giving him years to realize what a colossal fuck-up he was.

But hey, he's a white man who does shitty things because he believes they're necessary. No matter how wrong he is, that still makes him sympathetic in the eyes of pathetic people who think a white male character is entitled to all the power and privilege he thinks he deserves, no matter how many lives he destroys in the process of his own vanity and head-up-assery. Doubly so if those people are the sort whose lives don't matter to the kind of losers who stan such characters.

[helluva-dump]

Originally this was an oc I’ve had since teen years since she was originally a black butler oc.

But I decided to give her a massive redesign and recycle her to Hazbin hotel/Helluva boss

I know, I have such mixed feelings about the show and I really am not a big fan of their creator but idk… the nostalgic talk of ideas I had with friends during the early days of the fandom and I just kind of miss it.

But yeah that’s Lucinda aka Lucy, she’s guardian Angel (who later becomes a fallen Angel) that’s a descendent of Ruth. She’s very loyal, caring, and a compassionate person that wants to make the best for heaven. She mainly goes by the New Testament and feels like Heaven has an issue with the higher angels still clinging onto the Old Testament. (Much like our political climate lmao )

I was gonna scrap these ideas for her but idk… lately I’ve been thinking about Catholicism again and I recalled hearing how evangelicals and Republican “Christians” are now calling Jesus woke and I’ve been watching documentaries about Christianity and how it wasn’t really always linked to republicans

And I just been looking back at Bible stories I loved when I was really into Catholicism and I got inspired by friends who made Angel ocs and ahhh it made me wanna look back into the religion, it’s mythos, folklores and angelology and it’s been inspiring me with ideas.

I always been fascinated with the folklore with Christianity whether it’s angelnology or demonology, there’s just so many interesting ideas you can do to with a concept of Heaven and hell.

I was sooooo disappointed that Vivziepop was gonna go super biased and go with the “Lmao piss of Christians” root and just make heaven evil and hell good….

Okay, so I’m not exactly super Christian as I used to be but I can tell you why that’s gonna mess up the world building.

How the hell can hell be better than heaven when you get r@pists, n@zis, p3dos, serial killers, and hell a huge captilism problem as well as classism??? That to me doesn’t sound better than Heaven at all and I don’t see how Viv sees why this could mess up her world building.

Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t want Heaven to be 100% perfect but tbh… I wish she went with a morally grey route for both Heaven and hell. Showing both the pros and cons both places have.

But yeah sorry rant aside, I’m bothered she didn’t do research on such folklores befofe wanting to do a story on Heaven and hell. I get she doesn’t wanna offend Christians that may take it personal…. But she literally had already made pagans and witches angry with how she badly misrepresented Voodoo and potrayed Stolas. (I won’t lie that bothered me too )

And I get religious trauma, but I would still take wha to learned from the Bible and make it work with world building. It’s possible to make a good story while still showing respect to the mythos and faith. Moral Orel was a good example of that and it never was disrespectful to Christianty, but to those that use the religion to harm others. I was so hoping she can take that route but didn’t.

anyways rant aside, I wanna have fun doing more things with Lucy

[crof-fwf]

What the….?! and this alucín?

Okay, I can't blame anyone for looking for content on the "fun social network". However, the comments of a certain person have caught my attention. And it wasn't until my curiosity have rewarded me with something that really left me with "My honest reaction". And this was My honest reaction:

And specifically, this was the "compilation" of posts that prompted me (in these moments) to simply share my thoughts on his comments. NOTE: It seems confirmed that the user is probably CanonSeeker [yeah, "Ese loco del centro de la ciudad"] so the "exposure" to his twitter profile can be useful for Content Creators or simply fans who want to avoid him. So do not think about debating with him since it would be in vain,and in addition to wanting to talk about his comments.

Now yes, to the posts that I want to dissect

First the antecedent

"Everytime somebody triest to "FIX" RWBY" ?

Here he expresses himself on how the "Fanworks" of the "Fix Fic" category are based on misrepresenting every aspect of the canon.

Although here I will say that I have no references regarding "Fix Fic" in general beyond Celtic Phoenix's "Fixing RWBY".

I start about how he falls into the "generalization" that he gives to the "Fix Fic". And my comment is about how prejudiced he is when talking about said FanWorks.

Although, it may be that before I fell into this fandom there was a time when this type of FanWorks abounded but coming to sin the same or worse errors than those of the series or simply wanting to be pretentious.

But even so, it is not about invalidating that at the end of the day a "Fix Fic" can be considered a fic where the author has to be committed to fixing aspects of it without having to separate so much from the canon, being like a challenge for the author.

And now let's get to the subject.

This user has commented on suggestions to consider for a "Fixing RWBY" and here is the "short" list of suggestions that Dori/CanonSeeker has shared...

My quickest and most sincere reaction:

It is an exaggeration to consider this list as very long, but it is the specifications shown that are "eye-catching". So well lets see line by line the list. My points are mainly focused on the "Fix Fic" section. In which, from my perspective, a "Fix Fic" tries to stay within the events of the canonical series, while at the same time deciding to rewrite elements that were not satisfactory within the canonical execution or additionally add elements that do not try to unbalance of the canon. So, let´s begin:

"Try to focus on the female protagonists." "jaune is a side character. " "Do not make a cis white male have more of a role than them."

For a "Fix Fic" section it is somewhat understandable to keep what would be the main cast, but still it would not be bad to have to explore other characters (and yes, also include the male ones).

"Do not have a straight white male shame them for their actions."

I don't know what he mean by "shame". But if he mention it as a form of "consequence" for the cast for non-positive actions. I don't know what to say, that the team is can be "shame" by any character that doesn't fall into that category… and in case we take it into account I doubt that's the answer, because imagine if other characters [outside this "category"] "shame" the cast, and Doris/Seeker gets angry anyway, it only makes it more ironic.

"No straightwashing. " "keep bumbleby canon."

At this point I don't know what it means, since let's say that the "Fic Fix" is in charge of "fixing"… this "Ship", either due to the lack of growth, moments, or rewriting the "conveniences" of its development.

At this point I can't find a purpose for it because… "A Fix Fic" would not seek to carry out that type of "washing"

"And NO Fanservice. "

Short: If it turns out that he was always Seeker, then this would be… laughable.

But in no short: I think that such situations would not be necessary for a "Fix Fic"…

Don't make evil men "morally grey"

Here I have a question for my estemeed…. If there can be gray morality in the male antagonists or not?

And the answer: Honestly, it's ironic to settle for "cartoon" for the male antagonists but both the fandom and the series want to take it upon themselves to give depth to the female antagonists…

Don't have jaune or adam date anyone in team rwby.

Okay, and I ask again: Is a romnace necessary for a RWBY Fix Fic? And I want to apply this in general. Because if you are going to make a "Ship" in a "Fix Fic"... it would be with too much care and detail

Ruby is to be idealistic, and it shouldn't be a character flaw.

Doesn't the fact that a character has no mistakes make her a "Mary Sue"? and even more so for the fact that he wants Ruby to be idealized.

Yang is not a party girl, not alcoholic, and not a slacker.

From a "Fic Fix" point of view, ok, it's well aimed to NOT downgrade a character to be a "party girl, alcoholic, and a slacker."

BUT : ) , they can simply be aspects or defects so that there is a challenge or a purpose to overcome, but not reduce the character to what was mentioned

(But ironically to reduce it to half a Ship, there they are quiet)

Adam taurus is irredeemably evil. So is torchwick.

… I don't have anything relevant to comment except for the fact that you can make an "irredeemable" character, BUT : ) the same is how it is written / handled…

One (Adam) being able to offer more crumbs and (Roman) the other would be a "enough but I wouldn't complain if there were more"

Don't call it a rewrite or a fixit fanfic. Call it an AU. A fan AU.

In short: Depending on the story you write, as well as the one you want to "tell" is what would classify the "Fanfic" as an AU or "Fic Fix". As I said, the "Fic Fix" in the end would enter the category of FanFic but its purpose would be a more ambitious one. (in the sense of giving yourself as a challenge to "improve" the deficient aspects of a series)

That will show your respect to the show and its writers. And showing CRWBY writers Miles and Kerry that respect will cause others to give your work a chance.

And the only salvageable thing at this point is basically: "The impression", honestly you would cause a lot of distrust to most of the fandom by being "rude" with the CRWBY, but hey, it's not like it's not a guarantee that the fandom will give a chance to a "Fic Fix" for the same reason that the fandom is also very "defensive" when it comes to aspects of the series, to such a degree of humiliating or harassing the author because "he had ideas that could hurt the canon" . A good impression does not guarantee a positive reception from the fandom to your "fix fic".

And to give a quick conclusion: Apparently the "Fixed" version or idealized for Doris/CanonSeeker is the "over exaggerated" representation (or flanderization) of what RWBY is... And last: I know that I argue when it is a "Fic Fix", and in the case of an "AU" I will only tell you that: Have fun as you also have fun when structuring and making your AU story.

Now to "Mimir".

[saa-na]

re: people reblogging my posts about finland;

i'm not upset about people misrepresenting finland because i'm patriotic or a nationalist but because the popular image of finland, which is a result of a hundred years of propaganda, is so fake and narrow. on a geopolitical scale i'm fundamentally against the idea of "good finland" that is perfect and does no harm because i find that gives the state far too much leeway to make morally grey decisions, which directly results in suffering of people in and outside finland. on a smaller scale i'm upset about the clean image of finland because it ignores the cultural history of working class, lower class and underworld finland and reduces these diverse cultures to mystified legends; "dark history", "secret history"... as a historian who uses class as a category of analysis i have found that the "official story" of finland ignores class and the "official narrative" includes poverty only as something we've risen out of instead of something that still excists in finland. i find that this sort of attitude makes poverty look like an issue of lazyness and gives the idea that poor people live fully miserable lives with no joy. maybe i feel like the irritating issue is that people who reblog my posts seem to have no curiosity and present themselves as experts instead.

[violetsiren90]

Yes! Serious was the other word I was trying to think of.. Those angry, annoyed, stern, serious, "death stare" expressions are very attractive.

I'm repeating myself again.

I mention that because I was recently seeing pictures and videos with those expressions right before I found your story. Which is ironic? Or.. I don't know. That might not actually be the word I was thinking of.

Anyway!

I was trying to keep my vulgarities to a minimum, just because I never know if I tend to cross boundaries in being too vulgar around people. I never know how comfortable would be with me saying or doing some things. Especially if you don't know how someone might act or react.

Back to what we were saying though...

I think another reason why I'm attracted to those serious expressions is because, well, most men - including the BTS boys - are a lot bigger than me. I'm a short person. They are literally three times my size too.

So that whole experience is on a whole other level in some ways.

Like manhandling.

And I know about bdsm. I've experienced it. I've read about it. So that isn't what I'm worried about though. I've read smut stories with bdsm involved. But not so many give me the serious expression" vibes to it.. And you researched it? Which is great! Not many people, that I know, actually attempt to research certain topics before really adding those details into the stories. So I'm happy someone actually researched it.

But the more morally amoralistic the fictional men are, the better that story is. In my opinion. So now I might have new stories to read.

I didn't actually mean for my message to be this long.

That is very ironic that you stumbled onto my story just off of a Bangtan serious-mode high!

I completely understand trying to respect the sensibilities of others! That being said, you are free to thirst on my page! It is ho-hours pretty much around the clock here... 😂💃

Oh man, do I understand you on the size thing! I am a 5'2" shorty myself, and with Namjoon especially I get dizzy at the mere concept of being tossed around! ����🥵

Ah, I see what you mean about the content including the serious expressions specifically! You know, I think that I was really focused on presenting that in Make Me because the inspiration was that one picture where he's in the studio with the other members of rapline (you know, the one where he's just got his head tilted back like the world is his bitch? 😩). I think since that was the kick-off for the whole concept I wanted it to be integral to his character as well.

Wow, what a huge compliment that you're someone who has participated in BDSM and enjoyed my little story! Yes, I did research beforehand because I wanted to be sure to really pay respect to the dom/sub dynamic and not misuse or misrepresent it in an attempt to write a trope. My friend @orchidyoonkook also helped me greatly with her contributions of knowledge about the community and their practices. I know you mentioned that you enjoy fics and smut with darker themes, and she has an absolutely delicious reader-insert oneshot (The Devil Wears Valentino) where Yoongi is the prince of demons himself!

And yes, morally grey characters can be so incredibly compelling! I'm not great at writing darker characters myself, so it's a skill I greatly envy!

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

Do you think your favorite Morally Grey Blorbo is mistreated by the fandom? Do people not understand them? Are they constantly compared to the likes of Satan?

Or, on the flip side, are people saying they did nothing wrong? Constantly overlooking key characteristics, making it seem like they like the character in their head more than the character you got? Making them into a morally pure saint when they really aren't?

TL;DR: Does the fandom not seem to know the Definition of Morally Grey?

Well, I have good news!

WELCOME TO MISREPRESENTED MORALLY GREY!

RULES:

-No Harry Potter Characters

-No Real People

-2 Submissions or More guarantee entry

-DO NOT USE FAN ART!

-Morally Grey is Subjective. If I get an Ask saying that *insert Character Here* does not deserve to be here, I will make a poll for you to decide

-Cutoff date is February 29th, 2024

-There will be 4 Brackets, 'They Did Nothing Wrong' (A-Side), 'They Did Everything Wrong'(B-Side), Both (C-Side) and Mixed (D-Side)

Edit: PLEASE STOP SUBMITTING EDELGARD VON HRESVELG!!! ESPECIALLY IF YOU AREN'T GONNA CAPITALIZE HER NAME CORRECTLY!! She has guaranteed entry anyway!

Edit Edit: THE SUBMISSION FORM IS CLOSED!!! Thank you All for Submitting!

*tags for exposure*

@tournament-announcer @yall-hate-kids-tourney @look-how-they-massacred-them @morally-grey-girlbosses @godsspecialestlittleguyskirmish

[cockroachgirl1997]

seriously not sure how people in my social environment didn't suffer from whiplash considering i used to shift from one political extreme to the polar opposite; meninism to feminism, atheism to (a very brief phase of) christianity, anti-activism to veganism and environmentalism. and of course i couldn't just be normal about any of these either, but had to go the militant route (doesn't help that i was born a contrarian and polarizing is just in my nature)

but the more time passes, the less i feel inclined to ridicule myself for it, because what it boils down to in the end is: i was a very young person still figuring out my moral compass and the political climate around me. if i had to reason about it, i'd probably describe that development as "having initial pick-me-ism get replaced by actual education on the topics, as well as a more conscient application of empathy, and then hopelessly overcorrecting to compensate"

nowadays i don't even want to put myself in any sort of camp anymore, because those boxes usually come with an already built-in set of instructions on how to fill in grey areas that maybe are better left grey for a multitude of reasons, and leave less room for the individual person to make up their own opinions (especially since those groups operate on the basis that they agree and disagree on the same things, which means you make yourself a target for abuse when you stray from the median). i'm also not a fan of overgeneralization / oversimplifying complicated topics just to make them more digestible at the cost of misrepresenting realities (such as when entire demographics get demonized). i absolutely do possess views that overall may be assigned to certain camps, but occasionally i will also hold an opinion that does not fit within that cluster.

anyways whatever. i used to be very this or very that and now i like to be both as well as neither simultaneously. life is fun and i love learning or un-learning and changing my mind whenever i feel like i've gotten it all wrong before

[devout-of-the-elder-scrolls]

Morality and Daedric Princes

I wanna start this post for anybody who isn't aware of my blog that I believe the Daedric Princes are generally either misrepresented or only represented from one side of the debate within TES canon (that they are more than just evil, cruel, dastardly beings that want humanity to suffer). I do not take TES canon lore to be infallible worship canon. This post also comes from my own personal perspective and experience with these wonderful beings, so... UPG.

So, in my experience, the Princes as a whole are, as I can understand them as a human, morally grey. They both do and don't agree with the morals of us humans. (Note, this doesn't mean a human perspective is inherently the right one, that's centering on myself which isn't right for Godly worship and interaction. It's just the best way I can think to describe them to others.)

While the Nine Divines seem to align much more to human morals in TES lore (which may also be a misrepresentation of them), the Princes do not. For example, to a Prince, baneful magic, a common hot topic within Witch spaces, is perfectly valid and accepted in the eyes of a Prince.

In my experience, and in my knowledge, many Princes focus more on individuality and personal power. Unlike a Nine Divine who focus more on community, a Prince will tell you "You're the center of your own universe. Fucking act like it."

So, should a baneful spell be in your sphere? You feel you've been wronged heavily enough you want to perform it and maybe even curse that who wronged you? A Prince would entirely encourage it, even if some humans absolutely wouldn't.

This isn't to say either that they are necessarily good or evil. Every single god can be both, even the Nine Divines and the Tribunal, even gods outside of pop culture worship. They're all so beautifully and wonderfully multifaceted, afterall.

Boethiah can just as much tear you down as She can build you up. He'll break you into pieces so you know exactly how to piece yourself back together again in a crisis. But He'll stand by you the entire time you're piecing yourself back up.

Molag Bal, who within TES canon is perhaps the worst of the fuckin' worst (not necessarily in my worship but this isn't the post for that), takes you and makes you strong. It might be brutal and difficult, but you are made it in the end.

Even Azura, who within TES lore is generally kind (except for in one singular Arena questline where She asks you to kill someone), can be quite harsh and tough love-y. She'll give you the cold shoulder until you can learn to cry to Her in which She'll embrace you with all of Her love.

All of that seems cruel, but it's done with a good reason, and that's, in my perspective, pretty morally grey, when we're talking about a god.

If you can't handle a god doing tough love and being a bit brutal with you, then the Princes maybe aren't for you. But that's the best way I can think to explain how the Princes are morally grey. They do things that us humans might call cruel or unfair, but it's done with a good goal in the end, that if you're the right person for that kind of love, makes it worth it.

(I'm unsure if I made my point well in this post, but let's get to hoping!)

[web-novel-polls]

Other Tournaments Masterpost

[Last Updated: March 11th, 2024] 

Upcoming

N/A

Ongoing

Alloaro Swag Tournament

URL: alloaroswagtournament

Tag to Check: #tumblr tournament or #poll 

My Tag: #alloaro swag tournament 

WN Contestants - Bracket 2: Li Lianhua/Li Xiangyi, Shu Yanyan, Pei Ming (Eliminated) 

Best Webtoon Female Leads

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

Tags to Check: #polls

My Tag: #best webtoon female lead

WN Contestants: Penelope Eckhart from Villains are Destined to Die, Shuri from A Stepmother’s Marchen

Eliminated WN Contestants: Athanasia de Alger form Who Made Me a Princess, Deborah Seymour from The Perks of Being a Villainess, Eris Miserian from Kill the Villainess, Rosentine Arzen from Secret Lady, Raeliana Macmillan from The Reason Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke’s Mansion, Roxana Agreche from The Way to Protect the Female Lead’s Older Brother, Valeta from I Failed to Oust the Villain, Rudbeckia de Borgia from How to Win My Husband Over, Maxi from Under the Oak Tree, Keira from Actually I was the Real One, Abigail from I’m Only a Stepmother but My Daughter is Just So Cute, Leticia Halstead from My Husband Hides His Beauty, Judith from The Villainess Flips the Script, Hillis Inoaden from Untouchable Lady, Reilynn Candimon/Raylene Shan Kandmion from Today the Villainess Has Fun Again, Aria Roscent from The Villainess Reverses the Hourglass, Kayena Hill from The Villainess is a Marionette, Dillon from For Better or For Worse…. (Stopping here to save Mod’s brain) 

Gay Books Tournament

URL: gaybookstournament

Tag to Check: #gay book poll

My Tag: #gay book poll

WN Contestants: The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System

Eliminated WN Contestants: Heaven Official’s Blessing, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

Gay Dragon Tournament

URL: gaydragontournament

Tournament Tag: #gaydragontournament or #polls

My Tag: #gay dragon tournament 

WN Contestants: Xue Xian from Copper Coins (Round 1, Part 3)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Shi An from After the Abyss Dragon Woke Up

His Pussy Popping Tournament 

URL: myfaveisfuckable (Multiple Tournaments)

OP’s Tag: #poll or #tournament

My Tag: #his pussy popping tournament

WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian, Shen Zechuan, Wen Kexing, Zhou Zishu

Eliminated WN Contestants: Qi Rong, Hua Cheng

Misrepresented Morally Grey

URL: misrepresentedmorallygrey

Tournament Tag: #misrepresented morally grey

My Tag: #misrepresented morally grey

WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian (Bracket A), Jiang Cheng (Bracket B), Luo Binghe (Bracket B), Shen Jiu (Bracket C)

MLM Ship Bracket

URL: mlmshipbracket

Tournament Tag: #mlm ship bracket tournament 2024

My Tag: #mlm ship bracket

WN Contestants: Weilan (Guardian), Wenzhou (WOH/TYK)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Chuguo (Guardian)

Most Breedable Twink Tournament

URL: mostbreedabletwinktournament

My Tag: #most breedable twink tournament

Round 2: Shen Qingqiu (Side A) & Wei Wuxian (Side B)

Most Fucked Up Webtoon Couple

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

Tag to Check: #polls

My Tag: #most fucked up webtoon ship

WN Contestants - Ilyana and Magnus from The Beast Tamed by the Villainess 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Ariadne and Cesare from I’m the Queen in This Life, Valeta and Reinhart from Failed to Abandon the Villain, Chloe and Damien from Betrayal of Dignity, Layla and Matthias from Cry, or Better Yet, Beg; Charlize and Dylan from I Tamed a Tyrant and Ran Away, Karloi and Rue from Wished You Were Dead, Ophelia and Alec from Why Ophelia Couldn’t Leave, Chloe and Kairos from I Shall Kill that Sweet Devil, Erna Hardy and Björn Denyster from The Problematic Prince, Cierra/Sierra and Claude from Cierra/Sierra, Eilec and Rose from The Empress of Ashes, Syriana and Azester from Villains Behind the Curtains, Odette von Dyssen and Bastian Klausitz from Bastian, Carcel Escalante and Inés Valeztena from The Broken Ring: This Marriage Will Fail Anyway, Selena Evan and Ignus from I Was Discovered by the Villain

Old Hag Tournament 2024

URL: oldhagtournament

Tournament Tag: #old hag tournament 2024

My Tag: #old hag tournament 2024

WN Contestants: Granny Wen from MDZS 

Queer Book Character Tournament 2.0

URL: queer-book-character-tournament

OP’s Tag: #queer book character tournament 2.0

My Tag: #queer book character tournament

WN Contestants: Hua Cheng (TGCF), Shen Qingqiu (SVSSS), Lan Wangji (MDZS), Wei Wuxian (MDZS), Yin Hanjiang (DVAWTK) 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Wenren È (DVAWTK), Shen Qiao (Thousand Autumns), Xie Lian (TGCF), Luo Binghe (SVSSS), Yan Wushi (Thousand Autumns)

Queer Book Tournament 

URL: unrequitedbrainsidianangst

Tournament Tag: #queer books

My Tag: #queer book tournament 

WN Contestants: The Husky and His White Cat Shizun / 2ha

Eliminated WN Contestants: Case File Compendium / BAB, Heaven Official’s Blessing, Female General and Eldest Princess, The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System, The Imperial Uncle, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, JWQS, Guardian

Serial Adopters Tournament

URL: serialadoptersbracket

Tournament Tag: #tumblr polls or #tournament poll

My Tag: #serial adopters bracket

WN Contestants - Round 2 (begins Feb. 26th): Cale Henituse (Day 3), Xie Lian (Day 13), Han Muchun (Day 25), Kim Dokja (Day 27), Wen Kexing & Zhou Zishu (Day 29) 

They Should Have Been At The Club Tournament

URL: should-have-been-at-the-club 

OP's Tag: #should have been at the club tournament 

My Tag: #should have been at the club tournament

WN Contestants: Luo Binghe (SVSSS)

Tortured Artist Tourney

URL: tortured-artist-tourney

OP’s Tag: #tat2023 

My Tag: #tortured artist tournament

WN Contestants: Han Sooyoung (ORV), Wei Wuxian (MDZS)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Yoo Jaeha (Tomb Raider King) 

Ultimate Webtoon FL

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

OP’s Tag: #polls

My Tag: #ultimate webtoon fl

WN Contestants:

Abigail Freidkin (I’m Just a Stepmother, but My Daughter is Just So Cute) Aisha (Into the Light Once Again) Ariadne (I’m the Queen in This Life) Aria Roscent (The Villainess Turns the Hourglass) Asha Pervaz (The Age of Arrogance)  Astina (The Lady and the Beast) Athanasia de Alger Obelia (WMMAP) Bianca de Blanchefort (Marriage of Convenience) Charlize Ronan (I Tamed a Tyrant and Ran Away) Chloe Verdier (Betrayal of Dignity) Daisy (Tricked Into Becoming the Heroine’s Stepmother) Deborah Seymour (The Perks of Being a Villainess) Dillon (For Better or For Worse) Edith (I Thought It Was a Common Possession) Elise (Doctor Elise)  Eris Miserian (Kill the Villainess) Estelle (From a Knight to a Lady) Fiona Green (Author of My Own Destiny/I Become the Wife of the Male Lead) He Yan (Who is the Prey) Ilyana Glayne (The Beast Tamed by the Villainess) Judith (The Villainess Flips the Script),  Karen Heyer/Carynne Hare (Resetting Lady) Kayena Hill (The Villainess is a Marionette) Keira Parvis (Actually, I Was the Real One) Lariette (I Thought My Time Was Up!) Layla Llewelyn (Cry, or Better Yet, Beg) Lyrica (Mother’s Contract Marriage) Maxi (Under the Oak Tree) Melissa Foddebrat (Beware the Villainess) Navier (Remarried Empress) Penelope Eckhart (VADD)   Pereshati Lapileon (My In-Laws are Obsessed With Me)  Raeliana Macmillan (Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke’s Mansion) Reinhardt (I Tamed My Ex-Husband’s Mad Dog) Rosalite (Touch My Brother and You Die) Roselyn (Shadowless Night) Rosentine Arzen (Secret Lady) Roxana Agreche (The Way to Protect the Female Lead’s Older Brother)  Ruby de Borgia (How to Get My Husband On My Side) Selena Evan (Caught by the Villain) Seria Stern (The Tragedy of the Villainess) Shuri (A Stepmother’s Marchen) Tia Lombardi (I Shall Master This Family) Valeta (I Failed to Oust the Villain) 

WN Eliminated

Autistic Headcanon Tournament

URL: autistic-hc-bracket

Tag to Check: #autism

My Tag: #autistic hc bracket

Eliminated WN Contestants: Lan Wangji, Chu Wanning

BPD Blorbo Bracket

URL: bpd-blorbo-bracket

Tag to Check: #polls

My Tag: #bpd blorbo bracket 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Luo Binghe

God’s Specialest Little Guy

URL: godsspecialestlittleguyskirmish

OP’s Tag: #tournament poll

My Tag: #god’s specialest little guy

Eliminated WN Contestants: Mobei-jun (SVSSS), Yoo Joonghyuk (ORV), Kim Dokja (ORV), Xie Lian (TGCF), Hua Cheng (TGCF)

Most Fucked Up Ship Tournament

URL: fucked-up-ship-tournament

Tournament Tag: #most fucked up ship tournament

My Tag: #most fucked up ship tournament 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Beefleaf from TGCF, Bingqiu from SVSSS, He Yan and Fu Shenxing from Who Is the Prey, Claire and Balt from The East Wind of the Atlas, Eucenielle and Tes from I Hold the Tyrant’s Heart, Estelle and Khalid from From a Knight to a Lady 

Queer Media Tourney

URL: queer-media-tourney

Tournament Tag: #queer media tourney

My Tag: #queer media tourney

Eliminated WN Contestants: The Untamed

Sleepyhead Tournament

URL: sleepyhead-poll 

Tournament Tag: #sleepyhead poll

My Tag: #sleepyhead poll

Eliminated WN Contestants: Jing Beiyuan (Round 3C)

Sword Gays Showdown 

URL: badass-queer-couples-battle (Multiple Tournaments)

Tournament Tag: #sword gays showdown

My Tag: #sword gays showdown 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian (Bracket 1), Zhou Zishu (Bracket 1) Yin Hanjiang (Bracket 1), Di Feisheng (Bracket 1), Hua Cheng (Bracket 2), Luo Binghe (Bracket 2), Liu Qingge (Bracket 3), Xie Lian (Bracket 3), Lan Wangji (Bracket 3) 

Victims of Yaoi

URL: victimsofyaoipoll

Tag: #poll

My Tag: #victims of yaoi tournament

Eliminated WN Contestants: Han Sooyoung

Completed

MXTX Swords Tournament

URL: mxtx-swords-tournament

Tournament Tag: #mxtx swords tournament

My Tag: #mxtx swords tournament 

Ultimate Shizunfucker Tournament

URL: ultimate-shizunfucker-tournament

My Tag: #ultimate shizunfucker tournament

[thequasarwinds]

(KEEP IN MIND IM NOT TRYING TO BE ARTICULATE WITH THIS- THIS ISNT AN ESSAY JUST ME SAYING STUFF BUT I CAN PROVIDE CONTEXTUAL EVIDENCE IF NEEDED)

THIS EXACTLY THIS

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN BUT NEVER AS WELL PUT

GENUINELY THANK YOU SO FUCKINH MUCH FOR THIS

the message of EPIC is INCREDIBLY important to me- for reasons I won’t get into I relate HEAVILY to Odysseus’s arc and I wish I had Epic in my life back then when all of that was happening

That’s why I get so heated about people missing the point of Epic. Because it isn’t “Hehe Ody’s villain arc” that would insinuate that taking necessarily measures to protect yourself automatically makes you a villain- and on a personal level I don’t fuck with that

I don’t even fuck with people calling Odysseus morally grey- sure he’s done morally grey things- but your actions don’t always reflect your actual morality depending on the circumstances. For Odysseus he was repeatedly shoved into a corner over and over again. Barely being given any choice to do anything good- it was ALWAYS bad or worse, and Odysseus often chose what he thought was better! Both him and Eury tried their absolute hardest to do good for everyone but it ended up conflicting in the end.

to me being morally grey means that on a baseline level most of their actions can be considered morally questionable or ambiguous. Being cornered in that way doesn’t fall under that.

People often forget that Odysseus’s main motives are inherently selfless- inherently about someone else. He wants to be with his family for his family not necessarily for himself.

(I have a longer rant about all of this sitting in my drafts I’ll post it soon)

A MASSIVELY underrated and misrepresented trait of Odysseus is just how truly sacrificial and selfless he is. He threw away his own morals for his crew for goodness sake! And it clearly pains him! People often act as if Odysseus doesn’t carry any guilt in his heart after Nonster- but that’s plainly untrue. It’s SO CLEAR that he hates himself over every little choice he made- to the point of asking Penelope if she’d still love the man he is now. Not to mention the way he consistently humanizes his foes but never himself

(Also not to mention how he interacts with Cal but that’s an ENTIRE other thing that I don’t feel like getting into at the moment)

Let's talk about "Monster" ... and one of Odysseus' criminally underrated traits: his lack of judgment.

I was re-listening to "Monster" the other day and it kind of just hit me... Overall, that song isn't my favorite (it's somewhere in B tier; the lyricism is great, and the part after "So if we must sail through dangerous oceans..." absolutely slaps, it's just not one that I go back to frequently.) But there are some things I genuinely adore about it because I adore the way it progresses Odysseus' character arc as clearly not a "corruption" and how this is conveyed through the way the song is set up and presented.

First of all, I simply have to yap about how Odysseus isn't justifying his foes' actions the way that I have seen some people falsely assume. He's describing what they did or do and essentially saying, "They aren't letting themselves be stopped by guilt from doing what they think they have to do, so why should I?"

Polyphemus doesn't overthink whether it's right or wrong to kill some people because they harmed him or his sheep.

Circe may deep down feel guilt but isn't letting that stop her from turning men into pigs to prevent any more harm from befalling her nymphs at their hands.

Poseidon isn't losing sleep over drowning a fleet because that is what gods do to retain their infamy and status.

Odysseus and the rest of his soldiers didn't use the Trojan horse tactic out of malice or bloodlust, but out of pragmatism. It was the most efficient way to win a war that would have only cost more lives on both sides if they hadn't ended it then and there.

You look at that and you may think, "That's all very fair, but that doesn't mean any of those actions are justified" ... and you'd be right. None of the actions above are actually right or justified.

But the thing about "Monster" that I love so much is that it's specifically NOT something like, "These people I've encountered are all evil and ruthless and they are right and justified in being that way; I'll be the same." It's actually, "These people I've encountered act with ruthlessness; it clearly aids them in achieving their goal, and they seem to have figured out how to not feel guilt over their actions. I want to reap those benefits too. So far, I've been acting with mercy, which seems to have disadvantaged me. If they can do it, I can and should do the same to level the playing field."

Odysseus isn't saying that their actions are right, wrong, or justified. He's simply exploring why these people act the way they do. And he does so entirely without judgment.

I'm not surprised about him not judging Circe; while she was still wrong since she went overboard and struck preemptively against people who were not guaranteed to ever cause harm, she was pretty much redeemed in the end and her point is the easiest out of these to understand.

But the rest? Polyphemus killed his best friend. Poseidon drowned his whole fleet. The Trojan horse? It never comes up anywhere else but since he mentions it here, I think it's safe to assume that Odysseus feels guilty for using a tactic such as this. And still... Odysseus talks about his foes' actions with understanding and an open mind. He acknowledges their points of view—all of them, even if none besides Circe ever acknowledged or understood his.

The only time we genuinely see Odysseus act out of resentment is when he tells Polyphemus his name... After that, he never shows anything of the sort ever again. If he ever held any resentment toward any of his foes, I feel like this is where he lets it go for good.

Hell, even Poseidon, whom he would have by far the most reasons to resent, Odysseus doesn't actually judge or resent. I wrote a whole mini-essay on why the Vengeance saga proves that Odysseus doesn't actually seek or want vengeance on Poseidon. One might argue that he sounded like he was avenging his crew in "Six Hundred Strike" but it's important to remember that he offered Poseidon forgiveness one song earlier. He didn't lead with vengeance or resentment, but he rekindled his anger when Poseidon rejected his mercy.

My point is that Odysseus doesn't judge or resent any of the people who attempt to stand between him and his home... which shows incredible character strength in and of itself. This occurs later, but he acts similarly toward Calypso in "Not Sorry for Loving You" as well.

This is such an underrated trait of his, especially considering it fits perfectly with EPIC's themes, which revolve around seeing every perspective and balancing between ruthlessness and mercy. Honestly, I don't think those themes would even work with a protagonist who isn't so open-minded.

Coming back to "Monster," as we've established, Odysseus doesn't pass judgment on his foes. Similarly, he isn't saying that his decision to embrace ruthlessness and "become" a Monster (read more to find out why I put that in quotation marks) or any of his future actions as this Monster are justified.

I genuinely despise it when people call his arc a "villain arc" or "corruption" because that's pretty much missing the entire point. He isn't actually becoming a monster, corrupting, or genuinely changing his personality—hence why I put those quotation marks earlier. He is deliberately choosing to embrace a certain ruthless way of acting, fully knowing that it is not actually right or justified. "So what if I'm the Monster?" is self-gaslighting. He knows it's not "so what?" But he's doing it anyway because he has seen this way of acting aiding his foes. He literally says, "I must become the Monster / And then we'll make it home." He is convinced that this is what he must become because he keeps being told this by everyone.

From the top, his values or person isn't actually being corrupted. He's not really internally changing. He's merely adapting a way of behaving because he thinks it's the only way he'll still get home, and only because of that. It's really f*cking sad actually. Especially because he is wrong; his not being ruthless is not actually the problem, as we find out later.

Genuinely, his monster act lasted exactly 3,5 songs; in the second half of "Mutiny" it's already all gone because he is so afraid for his crew and what they're about to do to themselves that he instinctively goes back to wanting to save them despite how they just led a mutiny, despite how they don't listen to him regarding the cows.

Odysseus' entire arc can be described as, "He tries out mercy, and it doesn't get him home. He tries out ruthlessness, and it doesn't get him home either. In order to get home, he needs to learn balance, in Hermes' words "Every trick in his domain"." And that is also, as I believe, the main theme of EPIC: Neither ruthlessness nor mercy by itself is the solution. Both have their place; one needs balance. Or: treat people as they ask to be treated.

Only by the time of the Vengeance saga does Odysseus seem to have finally figured this out, and that's where he genuinely starts succeeding.

So no, Odysseus is no longer "The Monster" by the time of the Vengeance saga, no matter how much the visuals in "Six Hundred Strike" try to convince us otherwise. But he isn't "Just a Man" either. Did anyone besides me notice how he stopped calling himself this or justifying his weak moments like that in "Monster" and how he doesn't go back to it even after dropping the monster act?

And here we have the perfect segway into an essay I haven't written yet that might answer the question, "If now he's not a man and not a monster, what is he then?"

Well, technically Odysseus told us himself that one time he acted out of resentment... "Neither man nor mythical." But that's an essay yet to be written... I'll get to it soon, and there we might answer what actually happened in "Six Hundred Strike" and why the line "If you dance with fate I know you'll enhance your state", that I see is mostly overlooked, matters so much more than we probably all think.

Until then, know that I am not actually the first one to address the "Neither man nor mythical" significance. Credit goes to @glisten-inthedark; coming across her post on this matter genuinely enhanced my understanding of what happened so much and I need all of you to read it because it's a truly brilliant conclusion. I'll write my own essay on this topic soon, I promise. But without that post, I would've probably not come to this realization for a long while.

Either way, we end this essay with words that I will never tire of repeating: Stop villainizing Odysseus, y'all. It's not cool, not only because it's undeserved but also because it pretty much shows that you have successfully missed the point and core theme of this musical.

... See you when we inspiration for another essay strikes me. In the meantime, have a brief introduction to what that essay will cover in meme form because I can.

[jasperjv]

I have a lot of time to think about all the psychological torture I've been through within the past 5 years. Teenagers tried to warn us. I brushed it off as inexperienced kids not knowing what nuance is. But no, my adult abusers misrepresented and weaponized what they had painted as the "morally grey" or just "an asshole personality but still a good person" because they fucking had good politics or whatever.

Even if it did make me feel sick to my stomach, frustrated, upset, enraged, even crying my fucking eyes out until I got a migraine, I thought I was too sensitive, since I didnt keep track of all that was happening and how I was being treated. I didn't trust anything about my own judgement or feelings. I basically asked other adults (who were also trapped in the abuser's web, mind you) how I was supposed to feel.

Sometimes kids really should be trusted in that way, because they are less prone to have been brainwashed with adult life experiences to just be okay with fucking bullshit. Maybe they wouldn't believe the justifications I would have parroted at them. Because the reality was that I was emotionally abused. And the reality was that even if the way I was hurt was nothing but collateral damage, that would not make it okay, and it wouldn't be my job to MAKE it okay.