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marcuspierce · 3 months ago

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okay, so while i was working on the formatting of my really really long answer, i tried to save it as a draft but the ask just... disappeared??? it's not in my inbox, not in drafts, not even in my queue! it's just gone???? so i am very sorry for not answering your ask directly, anon, but i did take a screenshot before that for ease of referencing + saved my answer in a word document so at least i can still answer your question, even if it's in a roundabout way!

here's the answer, exactly as i had intended to answer it before tumblr decided to be a bitch:

oh this is such a lovely question so thank you, thank you, thank you for asking!!! i just love anything that involves intimancy/vulnerability and commitment when it comes to these two and this combines those concepts so well!

before i put a read more (both for length and to hide some bitterness that slipped through), i will give a tl;dr and say that i have thought about it and my answer is yes! they would/could definitely end up considering having children, and they would/could even have some!

this is actually a concept i have previously explored some years ago in two fics and a post about adorable onesies, and, more recently, in two parts of my series of social media edits! at first i only wrote them with one child, but in my posts from this year they have two!

read more time now!

now, before i begin actually talking about the specific matter at hand i just wanna say... when you say that you wish rory's inclusion had been better executed do you mean that there should've been (more of) a built up around lucifer, who, even as far as season 4, said that he detests children and wants nothing to do with them, actually being downright enthusiastic about being a father? or at least that there would be some sort of a more specific exploration wrt his feelings about random children vs a child he has contact with (such as trixie or charlie, who are clearly dearly liked by lucifer) and how that would relate to a child of his own and how his life circumstances (being in hell - perhaps/hopefully there aren't many children down there => discomfort due to lack of contact, but as he lives longer on earth that diminishes, OR just in general his insane self-esteem issues/self-hatred that are deeply tied to his time in hell and the things he had to do there, which would push him away from fatherhood simply out of kindness towards his imaginary future child - or his own childhood - it is so so clear that at least on a subconscious level he is aware of cycles of abuse, due to his deep hurt and displeasure when he heard from adult!rory that he sucked as a dad, plus he sees a great deal of himself in his father, which would just contribute to his self-hatred and would result in a refusal of fatherhood in order to not "inevitably" repeat the abuse he endured at the hands of his father... or, if actually faced with the done deal, it would result in... well, whatever breakdown amenadiel had about charlie, but probably more extreme)? or perhaps it is about him being forced to be an absent father and therefore not break the cycle of harming your child that his own father started and that lucifer was shown to desperately want to break? or just a combination of all of these things?

ok, phewwwwww, i am done with the rant, but thank you for giving me the opportunity to rant about one of the two only negative hills about this show that i am willing to die on! cause well, i actually stopped watching the show some good seasons back because i realized that the writers and i had completely different ideas about how to approach things. and while most things i can just chalk up to that, well, everything i heard about rory and lucifer has left such a horrible taste in my mouth and nothing has been able to make me less pissed off about it!

on this note, my knowledge about seasons 4-6 is pretty spotty and therefore i generally only make use of concepts/plot ideas in my analysis wrt long term piercifer. so yknow, some characters, mainly marcus' parents, are most likely nothing like their canon counterparts!

ok, so now to get to the actual topic at hand, i think that the subject would definitely come up and it would be a huge issue, i think even on par with them needing to figure out how they work together and how to make their relationship fulfilling for both of them. which makes perfect sense, because this is a life altering decision, that affects both the individuals, but also the couple, AND, most importantly, the child. and the child truly is a faultless party in this whole thing, but also the party that would be hurt the most. it is not an easy situation and it requires a lot out of them. so both of them acknowledging and treating it like a big deal already is a step in the right direction.

for lucifer, i already outlined some ideas in the rant above:

firstly we have him just not being used to interact with children so he associates that uncomfortable feeling of inadequacy with a displeasure for children (tbh i feel like he is not used to interact with people, in general, outside of very specific contexts but that's a bit less related to my point) so point against fatherhood no1!

but, this is the easiest to solve, as it just takes time. after all, the more you do something, the better at it you become! but, because it is something that changes slowly over the course of years, that means that lucifer would be quite oblivious to it. everyone around him would notice, it would be hard not to. he stops being bothered by children just... existing where he also happens to exist. he starts getting along quite well with trixie and even starts asking her parents about her and buying her presents for her bday. when it comes to charlie, lucifer's thrilled to find out that he's going to be an uncle and he's quite emotional when amenadiel offers him to hold charlie, and he obliges very happily and afterwards he talks marcus' ear off about the moment. he is also very happy when it becomes clear that charlie likes him.

and everyone notices these things, except for lucifer. so when asked he still insists that he hates children and that he just cannot stand the little "parasites", but after a while people stop taking him seriously when he says things like that.

but not hating kids does not a father make, and lucifer's other hangups are far more complicated and deep-rooted, namely his own chilhood and the resulting trauma/issues. but for these things it is mostly a matter of realizing that you need help and then asking for it, which lucifer is trying to do. and i definitely think that finding the kind of therapy that is most useful to him would help him tremendously and that + a support system (which he has in his friends and marcus) would help him get to a point where most of the day to day stuff becomes manageable and then he can focus on more deep-rooted things, things that he may not even realize are influenced by his trauma or that he doesn't think affect him, such as how his trauma influences his views on certain issues and one of those issues would definitely be parenthood. and the conclusion would be that his self-hatred, both from him having to go against his morals and do horrible things to survive in hell, but also from seeing himself in his own (shitty) father and therefore expecting to turn out the same, has absolutely influenced how he feels about the topic.

for marcus, on the other hand, i feel like there would be a journey. like, i always saw his parents being young and inexperienced at just... life, in general, when they have him and they don't really have who to go to for help (well... i suppose grovelling for g*d's forgiveness - just so they could ask the guy some questions - was an option, but not doing that was the better option ny far), so they don't really know what raising a child means and because of that they end up being quite neglectful. as such, marcus had to learn how to fend for himself and attempt to fulfill on his own as many of his needs as possible really fast, especially once there was someone smaller and needier than him around, so he became very capable, responsible organized, as Knowledgeable as one could be in that situation, but also both cautious and quite curious and willing to try stuff out at the same time, and also someone who could fake maturity really well and who was really good at taking care of others, which extended into being good at reading and interacting with people. all of these things come from him, at least subconsciously, realizing that, despite being a toddler who's faking it, he's the one person in that house who has any idea what they're doing and that that position is one that desperately needs to be filled.

all of this results in him emotionally distancing himself from others and retreating into himself, starting to built the wall/armour that he would later on use as a jaded, heartbroken adult. and a consequence of that retreating into himself and of prioritising this role he has bestowed upon himself is that he doesn't really explore who he is and what he likes and wants until adulthood. as such, parenthood is, at first, something that he does to be fulfill a role that was assigned by society and by fulfilling that role he blends in with everyone else and the ways he is not like everyone else stay a secret, but also it's about doing something familiar, something that he knows how to do. but he likes. loves it, in fact. he adores that child, and is, therefore, a complete wreck when that child dies after having a life, growing and changing and getting older while he just stays frozen in time, looking the exact same way as he did when said child was born decades earlier.

but, the first tragedy would come before that, when he would realise that everyone around him is visibly growing older while he stays suspiciously young, and people will notice soon and no one can notice. and as he packs up he is forced to endure abandoning the child he loves so so much and miss out on the little time (by his standards) that he had left with them. and he couldn't even tell them. doing so would defeat the purpose of leaving.

still, he tried again and again and again, just like he had with friends, lovers and just about any connection one could make. and no matter how much he tried, it always ended the same way, until he decided to stop trying and he allowed his armour of apathy and his wall of isolation to fully encircle him and solidify cause then he wouldn't get hurt. we know how well that worked out and what it did to him... until he met lucifer, that is!

finally someone he can be fully honest with, someone who can see him exactly as he is and oh, he won't leave him either!

so really his issue, as with all things relationships and connection, is mortality, as it is a luxury he doesn't have, but one that any children he has will have. so it ended up being something that he considered to be off the table for him, and he didn't think to revisit those wounds and that issue in therapy even after lucifer came into his life and nestled himself a place in it because, well, for decades on end lucifer's stance on it was clear. and marcus was fine with it as that wasn't a wound he was keen on reopening and picking at.

but then those decades passed and lucifer reached a point where he had worked out through enough of his issues that parenthood did feel on the table for him. and trying to bring it up did not go very well, at first, because they just weren't quite in the same place... yet! but that alright, cause they had all the time in the world, and when they did end up in the same place all was well and all was easy cause they were, in fact, on the same page.

with one small potential caveat: marcus was all for it, he had loved being a father and he had always wished he could do it right, but he couldn't bear that pain, the pain of watching his child grow old and die while he stayed the same, ever again, nor could he bear the thought of lucifer ever feeling that pain either. that could be an issue... or not. i don't see how any child that is not completely human wouldn't be immortal lmao

and if that really is the narrative the show decided to go with well... loser behaviour! boo tomato tomato! good thing i don't care and, even if i did, there sure are ways around it!

but yeah, the child being related to lucifer and therefore immortal is exactly lucifer's argument and that realisation sways marcus pretty quick!

and i think in a scenario like this, where they both give themselves and the other the time to heal and to figure out how they work as a couple before bringing another family member into the mix, they would be wonderful parents! sweet, caring, attentive, affectionate, intentional, just all the good things. and it would be easy... because they have learned what not to do (well, that's not a guarantee, but all of that work towards healing sure brings it close to a guarantee).

i think that's it! going further than that would be off topic... and just excessive given the insane walls of text i already wrote lmao

so, again, thank you so much for the question and i hope this was a satisfying... and coherent answer!

#mine: q&a #mine: piercifer

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