#meta: daenerys targaryen

[rainhadaenerys]

From time to time, I see some people argue that Dany can't be Azor Ahai because Azor Ahai was a man who killed his wife and such a character can't be considered a hero. So Dany couldn't be Azor Ahai because she is a hero and because such a feminist character like Dany can't be associated with Azor Ahai.

I agree that Dany is a hero, and I agree that Azor Ahai killing his wife is not the most feminist story. But I disagree with the idea that this means Dany isn't Azor Ahai, because literally all the foreshadowing points to her, she fulfills every aspect of the prophecy. Just because we as readers might think there's a moral dissonance in Dany being Azor Ahai, doesn't mean that she isn't. Whether we as readers might not like her being Azor Ahai, whether we think it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai, it doesn't change the fact that GRRM wrote all the clues pointing to her.

Also, while some people may argue that it's not feminist for Dany to be Azor Ahai because the original Azor Ahai killed his wife, other people might argue that Dany being Azor Ahai is a feminist subversion, because everybody expects the prophesied hero to be a man.

[ladystoneboobs]

idt we talk enough about how a song of ice and fire is also the song of incest and cannibalism. i mean, sure, obviously both of those subjects are noted as present, but the saga feels much more known for its incest, which idt is fair or accurate to the later materiel. iirc, jaime fucking cersei next to their dead firstborn is the last instance of onpage incest happening in present tl, and after that it's all about the cannibals, baby.

(disclaimer: cw/tw sa, cw/tw rape, and i'm not counting cousincest as that's normal in-world even for non-targaryens and also still legal in many places in our world today, nor counting the faux-incestuous freudian mess that is littlefinger/alayne(sansa)/sweetrobin, nor any dark humor jokes and/or unfulfilled threats wrt forced cannibalism)

in fact pretty much all the active incest during the present tl happens in those first 3 books:

the twincest as a major plot point ofc, kicking action off when bran saw them fucking in a tower

and viserys creeping on dany and twisting her nipple

tyrion relating his backstory to bronn wherein he and tysha were both raped by proxy by his father, tywin (tho tyrion does not use that terminology)

craster still being alive to rape and impregnate his own daughters (resulting in dozens of forced incestuous relationships)

and theon unknowingly groping his own sister while she (knowingly) groped him in return

jaime's early pov recalled how he shut up cersei with kissing when they fought after bran refused to die

bella of stoney sept trying and failing to seduce gendry who is (unbeknownst to them both) her half-brother as both were sired by robert baratheon (only example in these 3 books where incest was averted before any sexual activity or incestuous contact occurred)

the aforementioned sept twincest next to joffrey's corpse

tyrion learning from oberyn about cersei twisting his penis when he was a baby

cersei's failed attempt to seduce jaime in wst, pulling out his dick for either a bj or hj until her talk of tyrion's death made him lose his boner

while incest is not exactly absent from the text after that, it seems to exist in the feastdance only in hypotheticals or past memories:

aeron's trauma flashbacks of his (implied only in published text) csa by euron

jaime still feeling lust when seeing cersei nude

and her fond reminiscing about them fucking behind robert's back/brief dream of them as a married couple before her walk of shame

victarion misinterpreting asha's offer of partnership as a marriage proposal and suddenly looking at his niece in a new way with "his manhood beginning to stiffen"

jaime's recollection of fucking cersei at darry next to robert as he was passed out drunk before cersei sent him to hunt arya (which would have happened back in agot and the point of this scene is more his failed hunt for a child just to make cersei happy)

arianne's "uneasy" memory of a past fantasy about being seduced by a man whose description is suspiciously similar to her late uncle oberyn

the aborted marital match of aegon/young griff to his purported aunt dany

illyrio saying (the now dead) viserys tried to rape dany the night before her wedding to drogo (another event from agot concerning a guy we already knew was into incest)

and tyrion once saying he wanted to rape as well as murder cersei

conversely, the cannibalism in the earlier books is most often only unproven hypotheticals alluded to as possible cannibalism:

old nan saying the others fed their dead servants the flesh of human children (which we have not yet seen with any wights so far, whether or not one counts walking undead eating human flesh as straight-up cannibalism)

the mystery meat in flea bottom's bowls o' brown which may or may not contain symon silver tongue after tyrion had him killed

renly's recollection that cressen kept stannis from catapulting their old master-at-arms by saying they may need to eat him later (which did not come to pass thanks to davos)

joffrey telling his people to eat their own dead (with no way of knowing if any actually did)

lady hornwood eating her own fingers (though bran's pov only notes them being chewed on, not swallowed. it's only in adwd that people talk of her eating the fingers.)

the mentions of the ice river clans being the cannibals beyond the wall (who are def not among the free folk jon snow gets to know onpage, making it just background detail)

bran's (possibly mythical) story of the rat cook

and biter chewing on people he attacked and other corpses (which seems to be just a side hobby connected to his killing method moreso constituting a snack than a full meal from a person butchered for meat. this tendancy of his is just background detail in acok, with biter chewing a corpse in the background after the weasel soup operation, and the hindsight implication that it could well have been him rather than dogs or wolves who had "been at" the corpses after the skirmish where yoren was killed)

while the feastdance feels much more in your face with cannibalism, having not only more total mentions of the practice but also more actual cannibalism (as opposed to the ambiguity of each and every bowl o' brown), for those who know how to look at the evidence:

jaime learned that his father's mad dog aka the mountain fed parts of vargo hoat to all his prisoners (including vargo himself) after recapturing harrenhal

and euron bragged about pulling a similar trick with the warlocks he captured (the only twist being that the warlocks knew what they were being forced to eat, which vargo hoat and wylis manderly etc at harrenhal likely didn't)

the elder brother of the quiet isle told of biter eating all of a woman's breasts at saltpans after she'd been raped and killed (prob the largest amount of flesh biter's confirmed to have eaten from one corpse)

bran and co. ate "pig" supplied by coldhands which had to be long pig aka human meat

brienne felt her face being eaten by biter in her own pov (which is so much worse than him chewing others in the background of the weasel soup scene)

theon was told that two ironmen at moat cailin were found eating their dead comrades

the astapori were said to eat their own dead while under siege by the yunkishmen

and then were said to do so again in refugee camps outside meereen

khrazz the pit fighter cut the hearts from his defeated foes to eat them

cotter pyke's last letter to jon snow said the wildlings were eating their own dead at hardhome

4 of stannis's men were executed by burning for butchering and eating other men (with asha wondering how many others had done so without being caught)

and ofc the frey pies with wyman manderly having his 3 former guests killed and serving their meat to their own kin and the other guests at ramsay's wedding while eating some himself too

two of these examples (involving gregor clegane and euron greyjoy) must have actually happened during the course of asos, but grrm chose to give us the gruesome details in affc, which was brand new information about men we already knew were villains but did not know were into that fucked-up shit specifically, unlike being reminded that agot-era jaime and viserys wanted to fuck their sisters. (and not unlike how adwd has the clarification of multiple characters saying lady hornwood ate her own fingers as opposed to bran's acok pov just saying she chewed on them.) it's as if after craster was killed and jc effectively broke up grrm decided cannibalism was the taboo subject matter he would fill the later books with, so we'd really feel the increasing danger of starvation-induced cannibalism with winter's arrival (and have no trouble believing rickon's new home of skagos really is a cannibal island). however, in-universe it feels like there's some sort of environmental balance connection so that the decrease in one formerly common behaviorial abomination just allows another such abomination to fill in the gap with a sharp increase in activity, like deer overpopulation resulting from lack of predators as if all the active incest somehow stopped more people from eating themselves or other people.

[jozor-johai]

This is just a short note I will expand on elsewhere, but GRRM has this somewhat infamous quote about LOTR, about what to do with the orcs after the story ends. This is about rulership—what happens after the conquest?

Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

Part of what I love to death about ASOIAF is that it seems fundamentally more interested in these questions than the excitement of the conquest itself.

I see this quote brought up about the Others every once in a while, but I also think that we might be seeing one iteration of this idea with Dany in Meereen and the children of the slavers:

“The Sons of the Harpy are laughing in their pyramids,” Skahaz said, just this morning. “What good are hostages if you will not take their heads?” In his eyes, she was only a weak woman. Hazzea was enough. What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children? “These murders are not their doing,” Dany told the Green Grace, feebly. “I am no butcher queen.” (ADWD Dany IV)

There are obvious differences—for a start, humans have the potential to grow up to be anything, rather than the known entity of the inherent evil when it comes to orcs.

In an ASOIAF-relevant context, though, the question is similar: you won, do you eradicate your enemies? Their remaining families? What if it looks like a direct path to peace for those you were fighting for? “What good is peace if it must be purchased with the blood of little children?”

Considering that slavery is some of the clearest evil we’ve seen in the books thus far, I think this is one way GRRM is be bringing his thoughts on fantasy rulership to a more human context in ASOIAF.

The issue of letting the children live (or not) also makes for another very interesting parallel between Dany and Robert Baratheon, who is another key figure in ASOIAF’s exploration for how one rules after the battle has been won. Barristan makes the connection nearly explicitly for the reader, standing up for Ned’s name:

“Your Grace,” said Selmy, “Eddard Stark played a part in your father’s fall, but he bore you no ill will. When the eunuch Varys told us that you were with child, Robert wanted you killed, but Lord Stark spoke against it. Rather than countenance the murder of children, he told Robert to find himself another Hand.” (ADWD Dany II)

Robert was faced with the same choice and, over the course of his reign, has been given two different takes, one to start his reign and one at the end of it. Robert’s peace was bought with the blood of Rhaegar’s children, the young Aegon and Rhaenys, delivered—albeit unsolicited—by the Lannisters, to cement Robert’s legitimacy and their own stake in his rule. At the end of his reign, Robert is faced with the premise of a new Targaryen baby being born and Ned offers an contrary opinion much like Dany’s own (in spirit if not in allegiance):

“Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?”

There’s plenty more to be said, but I just want to point out this angle for interpreting the GRRM LOTR quote. For one, sometimes people take issue with how literally GRRM himself is enacting his criticisms (saying things like, 'we never see Robert's tax policy either')—but this is a great example of how GRRM can raise a criticism that fits for a different series and make it work within his own world by adjusting the circumstances.

Also, I think that for discussions that attempt to predict where the story will go from here based on comments like this from GRRM, it’s important to see where GRRM is already exploring these ideas. In ASOIAF, this sort of application doesn’t require this idea to be explored with some kind of similarly-undying evil like the orcs or like Sauron, GRRM is applying these ideas to much more human evils, like slavery, and much more human applications, like any kind of military victory.

[winterprince601]

arya, sansa and dany get ALLLL the experiences of feudal girlhood. being torn from your family and forced to erase your connection to them at a young age. having a very dangerous pet!!! attending a wedding where at least one person dies. praying but in like, a non-denominational way. killing a man in your head. hoping your mother would be proud of you :( getting a new hairstyle and changing your identity!! killing a man.

[witchthewriter]

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

It baffles me that Dany gets the most criticism for punishing some of the Great Masters of Meereen. You know, people who not only benefit from slavery but who also crucified slave children in order to spite her. Instead of having meta on how inhumane these actions of theirs are, people are focusing on whether Dany's punishment on them was cruel or not. In my opinion, it wasn't. She could have killed all the Great Masters, like she did with the Good Masters ( again slavers) in Astapor. It would save her a lot of trouble dealing with them later ( see ADWD). However, she only orders the killing of the exact number of slavers as the slave kids that was killed by them. And kills them exactly the same way, they killed those kids. She's sending a clear message that such horrible acts of violence against those who can't defend themselves won't be tolerated on her reign in Meereen.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

I hate those Daenerys is going to sacrifice herself/die theories so much it genuinely makes me tweak and I have never been the type of person to get upset at all over fiction or any type of media, but this irks me so bad because not only is Daenerys my absolute favorite character of all time, it’s upsetting how the female character is always the one who has to die for others sakes and never achieve anything for herself. Yes, it’s her destiny as AA to fight the Others, but that doesn’t mean that she has to die doing it. Like, seriously, after we got F&B and saw how many Targaryen women struggled with misogyny and being passed over for the throne, it feels upsetting to me if the one who is supposed to break the wheel will never have a chance to do so. I do love Bran but I do not see him fit to sit on the throne, not to mention how young he is and will be at the series end unless George does a massive timeskip, and after the whole world is in shambles after the Long Night, who is more fitting to sit on the throne and help mend things and lead the people forward? A well experienced ruler and fighter who will bring along a new age of change, or a child with no such experience? Perhaps it’s just me being salty but I just really want the best for my favorite character who I believe deserves to have her shot at having a home and being able to rule and change the world together with the other characters. Especially after the end of GoT, which no I don’t ever believe that George will go that route, but with how everything happened in the show, it looked like Westeros was a completely and utter mess and there was nobody capable left to pick up the pieces, Bran’s ascension to the throne was so random too and didn’t even feel satisfying or like a good conclusion (not that those two incapable idiots could ever produce a satisfying ending, but yeah). What are your thoughts on this? I just feel sad that fellow Dany fans are literally enthusiastically waiting for her death in the upcoming books as if there isn’t a better destiny for her :( The female character who managed to rise to power and become a ruler in her own right dying or giving that up to the men in order to “settle down” leaves such a bad taste in my mouth and doesn’t look like the subversion George has done with her character at all.

I definitely agree with you anon, Dany dying/sacrificing herself really doesn't seem to fit with her story. Yes, Dany certainly would be willing to die to save the world, but that doesn't seem to be where GRRM is writing her.

Dany's story is saturated with life; which is pretty ironic since she's been called "Daughter of Death". She's closely tied to themes of fertility (mother of dragons, helloo), rebirth (Azor Ahai, entering the pyre), and survival/endurance.

Dany's story shares very little similarities to characters who have been set up for death. For example, Robb. Dany may share some superficial similarities to Robb, but the signs of Robb's impending death are not shared at all. GRRM always sets up the deaths of his major characters from their introductions. That hasn't happened with Dany; if anything we see a set up to her surviving.

You're so right about how people are foaming at the mouth for Dany's death. Her dying after everything she's been through and everything she stands for is just...no. It feels so gross and has some really concerning undertones.

The woman who actually fought for change and made a massive upheaval in the status quo, who genuinely cares for all her people, who understands the responsibility of ruling, who demonstrates incredible wisdom, who only wants to make the world better dying for the sake of the story is just wow.

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

Even if Viserys had named Aegon heir and no war took place, the dragons would have died out anyway.

The dragons died because a woman was denied the throne, House Targaryen lost its might for betraying their woman. It is not a coincidence that Morning dies so young, it is not a coincidence that is Daenerys who brings back the dragons. Steeling from women has terrible magical consequences in Asoiaf, the first long night and the dying of the dragons are great examples.

House Targaryen tried for centuries to bring back the dragons, but only a girl, Daenerys, could. Only a queen.

It can't be a coincidence.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Dany: *breathes*

Dark!Dany "theories": I honestly don't know how there's any question of Dany turning evil when we have such obvious foreshadowing like this in the books. In the first place, this is not just Dany exhaling...it is a violent expulsion of air from her body. It's a sigh, a sign of impatience which shows that Dany becomes frustrated and restless very easily. Not only that, the presence of oxygen strengthens a fire and can lead to a sudden explosion; when Dany gets impatient, intentional or not, her first instinct is to add "fuel to the fire". And finally, air is the very essence of life. She expels "life" from her body, rather violently at that, the moment she becomes impatient and unconsciously begins to turn to fire...do I really need to say more? It's so obvious that Mad Queen!Dany is being built up, George isn't even trying to be subtle lol

[prahelika]

3 am arya thoughts:

“You’ll need to carry me.” See? thought Mercy. You know your line, and so do I. “Think so?” asked Arya, sweetly. Raff the Sweetling looked up sharply as the long thin blade came sliding from her sleeve.

She took a step, and another, and with each she felt less a mouse. She worked her way down the bench, filling wine cups. Rorge sat to Jaqen’s right, deep drunk, but he took no note of her. Arya leaned close and whispered, “Chiswyck,” right in Jaqen’s ear.

“Why don’t you just kill me like you did Mycah?” Arya had screamed at him. She was still defiant then, more angry than scared.

She never forgets anyone. Never. Whether it's Mycah, the butcher's son she used to play with as a nine-year old, or Lommy who bullies her and attacks her viciously before they become friends. Lommy stays with her even as she tries to shed the name of Arya Stark, so much so that she remembers Raff and kills him using poetic justice. Even Layna, the innkeeper's daughter who was raped by Gregor Clegane, who she never even knew. Arya gives Chiswyck's name to Jaqen instead of say, Weese or Raff, who were incredibly cruel to her. All because he told Layna's story as if it were a joke.

There's only one other character who I can think of who remembers and cares about people so much.

No queen has clean hands, Dany told herself. She thought of Doreah, of Quaro, of Eroeh … of a little girl she had never met, whose name had been Hazzea. Better a few should die in the pit than thousands at the gates. This is the price of peace, I pay it willingly. If I look back, I am lost.

The thing that surprised Dany most was how unsurprised she was. She found herself remembering Eroeh, the Lhazarene girl she had once tried to protect, and what had happened to her. It will be the same in Meereen once I march, she thought.

They're really so similar... children forced to go through so much, who still retain their compassion, kindness and sense of justice, no matter what happens to them. I hope they meet up in the books, and finally, finally, get to have their happy ending with each other.

[vivacissimx]

A Game of Thrones' first chapter being Bran I and last chapter being Daenerys X, and those two chapters being in such strong conversation with each other will forever be what sells me on ASOIAF as a series. The set-up is just it. Consider: AGOT begins with an execution, of Gared the Night's Watch deserter who witnessed The Horrors. It's presented as a part of Bran's coming of age, this complex situation which he's now old enough to grapple with. Gared is sympathetic to us as readers (he witnessed The Horrors!!!) but his life is forfeit. He dies by Ice. After, Jon and Robb argue over whether he died brave or afraid. Ned says it doesn't matter—death is necessary, it is part of a larger Cycle which Bran will one day be a part of though he shouldn't enjoy it any more than he denies it... what makes it necessary though? What is this cycle—because if it's only about justice, well, Gared's execution doesn't feel just. Now we have our first true question of the book.

Daenerys X follows a similar format with a sympathetic Mirri Maz Duur having forfeited her life after killing an unborn Rhaego. Why? Well she also witnessed The Horrors. This time in the shape of a Dothraki invasion & the Stallion Who Mounts The World prophecy. She is set to die by burning (ice and fire babyyy). In the moments before, she appears defiant... but when Daenerys says it does not matter how she dies, then fear creeps into MMD's eyes. Again the interplay between bravery & fear. Again the seesaw, the balance. So now we can return to the first question. Why is this necessary?

Because only death can pay for life... and because you should strive for life. There should be hope and yearning for birth, for rebirth. Gared & Mirri have both given up on their own lives due to their fear while Bran asks, and Daenerys answers, that yes, you must reach for life even when life as you know it has ended. It's a coming of age for Daenerys too. When the dragons burst forth their newborn cries are called music—it's a song!! A Song of Ice and Fire. So yeah. Five fucking stars.

[rainhadaenerys]

The fake and the real Lightbringer

“You want to see Lightbringer? A blind man?” [...] “Tell me, Samwell.” Maester Aemon touched his arm. “It glows,” said Sam, in a hushed voice. “As if it were on fire. There are no flames, but the steel is yellow and red and orange, all flashing and glimmering, like sunshine on water, but prettier. I wish you could see it, Maester.” “I see it now, Sam. A sword full of sunlight. So lovely to behold.” The old man bowed stiffly. “Your Grace. My lady. This was most kind of you.” When King Stannis sheathed the shining sword, the room seemed to grow very dark, despite the sunlight streaming through the window. [...] Maester Aemon was lost in thought as Sam helped him down the narrow turnpike stair. But as they were crossing the yard, he said, “I felt no heat. Did you, Sam?” “Heat? From the sword?” He thought back. “The air around it was shimmering, the way it does above a hot brazier.” “Yet you felt no heat, did you? And the scabbard that held this sword, it is wood and leather, yes? I heard the sound when His Grace drew out the blade. Was the leather scorched, Sam? Did the wood seem burnt or blackened?” “No,” Sam admitted. “Not that I could see.” Maester Aemon nodded. - Samwell V ASOS

~

“No,” the old man said. “It must be you. Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother’s dream . . . Lady Melisandre has misread the signs. Stannis . . . Stannis has some of the dragon blood in him, yes. His brothers did as well. Rhaelle, Egg’s little girl, she was how they came by it . . . their father’s mother . . . she used to call me Uncle Maester when she was a little girl. I remembered that, so I allowed myself to hope . . . perhaps I wanted to . . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam. Daenerys is our hope. [...]” - Samwell IV AFFC

~

“I looked at that book Maester Aemon left me. The Jade Compendium. The pages that told of Azor Ahai. Lightbringer was his sword. Tempered with his wife’s blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm. In battle the blade burned fiery hot. [...]” Clydas blinked. “A sword that makes its own heat …” “… would be a fine thing on the Wall.” Jon put aside his wine cup and drew on his black moleskin gloves. “A pity that the sword that Stannis wields is cold. I’ll be curious to see how his Lightbringer behaves in battle. [...]” - Jon III ADWD

~

Viserion sensed her disquiet. The white dragon lay coiled around a pear tree, his head resting on his tail. When Dany passed his eyes came open, two pools of molten gold. His horns were gold as well, and the scales that ran down his back from head to tail. “You’re lazy,” she told him, scratching under his jaw. His scales were hot to the touch, like armor left too long in the sun. Dragons are fire made flesh. She had read that in one of the books Ser Jorah had given her as a wedding gift. - Daenerys I ADWD

~

“Drogon,” she screamed. “Drogon.” His head turned. Smoke rose between his teeth. His blood was smoking too, where it dripped upon the ground. - Daenerys IX ADWD

~

Black blood was flowing from the wound where the spear had pierced him, smoking where it dripped onto the scorched sands. He is fire made flesh, she thought, and so am I. - Daenerys IX ADWD

~

She remembered the dragon twisting beneath her, shuddering at the impacts, as she tried desperately to cling to his scaled back. The wounds were smoking. Dany saw one of the bolts burst into sudden flame. - Daenerys X ADWD

[daenerystargaryen06]

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi," the Lysene girl said. "Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat. A thousand thousand dragons poured forth, and drank the fire of the sun. That is why dragons breathe flame. One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Here we have a passage of a story Doreah tells Daenerys, a tale of two moons in the sky. One wandered too close to the sun, and it cracked from the heat, resulting in dragons. And that one day, the second moon will 'kiss' the sun.

Notice G.R.R.M's play on words here. In this story, the first time one of the moons cracks, it "wandered" too close to the sun. And for the second, it is said that the second moon will "kiss" the sun. This is deliberate.

"You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall." Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the Wall." -A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

Notice the same phrase of wording used here in Jon's passage. He has been "kissed" by the moon, etching his shadow along the Wall.

As I've stated in my post here, I believe that while Daenerys is the main focal point for her role as AA/TPTWP, she would be joined by others in this task. One of those people being Jon. He will be one of the three heads to join her side for the coming war against the Others. To unite the realm against the cold, and the dark.

"One day the other moon will kiss the sun too, and then it will crack and the dragons will return." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"You should look behind you, Lord Snow. The moon has kissed you and etched your shadow upon the ice twenty feet tall." -A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

As for these two passages- let's believe they are to be taken literally. It happens for Dany and Drogo the first time around: Drogo is the sun, Dany the moon. Dany "wanders" too close to the sun, Drogo, in his funeral pyre, and thus her dragons hatch.

Now how could this relate to Jon?

I believe Jon being "kissed" by the moon, is in reference to Jon and Daenerys' eventual future romance and union together. We have evidence for this, provided from me here and here. More quotes providing into Jon being Daenerys' last romantic interest and husband:

". . . three heads has the dragon . . . the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air. . . . mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . The whispers became a swirling song. . . . three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love. . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt. . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love. . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ." --A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"I don't . . ." Her voice was no more than a whisper, almost as faint as theirs. What was happening to her? "I don't understand," she said, more loudly. Why was it so hard to talk here? "Help me. Show me." . . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . . Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . ." -A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Notice that each prophecy given to Dany in the HOTU was given to her in three, each one ending in love. When asked to be shown what it meant, Dany is given visions. Two connecting her to Jon, both ending in three, as her prophecies for love:

"Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name" - this is clearly Rhaegar, Jon's father, dying upon the Trident. It is believed he is whispering Lyanna's name, Jon's mother.

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness" - Dany is seeing Jon at the Wall, through the metaphor of a blue flower (connecting him to Lyanna- blue winter roses). The air is full with sweetness- a metaphor to love, and sweetness- something Dany likes (also maybe this hints to Dany joining Jon at the Wall, giving him the three dragons he wishes for in another passage).

Dany will be the moon, who kisses Jon, her second sun. A reference to their love and union.

Now- how does this bring dragons into play? Who knows. The wording is a bit tricky here. The passage states that when the second moon kisses the sun, dragons will return. And yet dragons have already returned- Dany hatches her children the first time she "wanders" too close to the sun. So how do dragons come into play with her and Jon's union regarding this text?

Well, perhaps it may not be so literal. Maybe the return of dragons from Dany and Jon's union is that Jon will gain a dragon. Maybe Jon will discover ice dragons. Maybe they will find more dragon eggs at Winterfell or somewhere else. Maybe Dany's own dragons will breed and begin a second hatching of eggs, thus "returning" dragons once more with Dany and Jon's union. There are different possibilities for this.

Jon's resurrection can also lean more into him being the second sun to Dany, as he would be a wight of fire.

"Burning shafts hissed upward, trailing tongues of fire. Scarecrow brothers tumbled down, black cloaks ablaze. "Snow," an eagle cried, as foemen scuttled up the ice like spiders. Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the Wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared." -A Dance with Dragons - Jon XII

"That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened." -A Storm of Swords - Daenerys III

"And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

Both Jon and Dany experience dreams of fighting the Others.

-Both are wearing black armor and both are wielding fire; Dany with her dragons, Jon with a sword.

And while their dreams share similarities, they also bear differences:

-Jon is battling the Others upon the Wall, whereas Dany is battling them within the Trident.

-Jon sees Ygritte and realizes too late he's killed her (a person he views with grief and regret), Dany however believes herself to be Rhaegar (a person she sees as a fierce warrior and protector).

Both are also viewed by other people as the chosen ones, AA/TPTWP:

"On Braavos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo's talk of dragons had almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger." -A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

"Daenerys is the only hope," he concluded. "Aemon said the Citadel must send her a maester at once, to bring her home to Westeros before it is too late." -A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

"Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow. Whenever she was asked what she saw within her fires, Melisandre would answer, "Much and more," but seeing was never as simple as those words suggested. It was an art, and like all arts it demanded mastery, discipline, study. Pain. That too. R'hllor spoke to his chosen ones through blessed fire, in a language of ash and cinder and twisting flame that only a god could truly grasp. Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the sacred flames. Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow. "Devan," she called, "a drink." Her throat was raw and parched." -A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

Jon and Daenerys both have arcs of leadership. In which both have to make hard decisions that they believe is best. Both have the qualities of strong leaders, military strategists, and unifiers. It might turn out that Jon will wind up helping Dany in the books gather the people to face against the Others and fight against the cold and the dark. Perhaps even coming into acceptance of his true parentage and relation to Dany as well.

Both Jon and Dany are also known to have cultivated into, lived with, loved, and learned the humanity of the Freefolk and the Dothraki- two factions many view as "savage" and "barbaric", and yet I believe that the Freefolk and the Dothraki will come into a big play for both Jon and Dany against the war of the Others. The culmination of their work and efforts into unifying people to work together against one common enemy.

[jozor-johai]

Ghost as Jon's "white shadow" in AGOT Tyrion III:

They walked, with Ghost pacing along beside Jon like a white shadow.

Ser Mandon Moore as Joffrey's "white shadow" in ACOK Tyrion IX:

Joffrey was galloping at his side, whey-faced, with Ser Mandon Moore a white shadow on his left.

and then, with Ser Balon Swann, two "white shadows" to Tyrion in ACOK Tyrion VIX:

His two white shadows were always with him; Balon Swann and Mandon Moore, beautiful in their pale plate.

and again, more menacingly, later in the same chapter:

The knight was a white steel shadow, his eyes shining darkly behind his helm.

Ser Barristan Selmy as Daenerys' "white shadow" in ADWD Daenerys I:

Dany glimpsed Ser Barristan sliding closer, a white shadow at her side.

Five chapters later, Ghost as Jon's "white shadow" again in ADWD Jon II:

Ghost padded after him, a white shadow at his side

and again in ADWD Jon VII:

Ghost ran with them, a white shadow at Jon's side.

That's almost every instance of the concept of the "white shadow" in ASOIAF, and I think the limited context is striking: this is only in reference to the Kingsguard, clad in their pure white-enameled armor, and Ghost, Jon's all-white guardian.

If we are assuming Jon is a lost Targaryen Prince, then perhaps we might say Ghost is spiritually the first member of his Kingsguard.

I think it's a sweet thought.

However ... that's notably omitting the third context for the phrase "white shadow"

From the AGOT Prologue:

Will saw movement from the corner of his eye. Pale shapes gliding through the wood. He turned his head, glimpsed a white shadow in the darkness.

From AGOT Jon VIII:

"We have white shadows in the woods and unquiet dead stalking our halls, and a boy sits the Iron Throne," he said in disgust.

From ACOK Jon III:

"The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows."

and again:

We ride north, after Mance Rayder and these Others, these white shadows and their wights. We seek them, Gilly.

From AFFC Samwell III:

Maester Aemon's woken up and wants to hear about these dragons. He's talking about bleeding stars and white shadows and dreams and . . . if we could find out more about these dragons, it might help give him ease. Help me."

What can we make of that, then?

These are the only three contexts for this imagery, actually. I think it works if Ghost is sort of like Jon's Kingsguard but then... can there be some connection in this phrase with the Others? What could that mean?

[winterprince601]

symbolically, dany (probably) not being able to have kids is very powerful. throughout the first book, her worth as a queen, threat as a conqueror and value as a body is determined by her ability to breed: the prospect of a son overshadows all her achievements and her body is used and abused as the vehicle of her brother's, her husband's and various other men's conquests. that is why it is so radical when instead of her barrenness being depicted as defective, she births the dragons all by herself, all of herself, without any real male intervention. SHE is the true dragon, it's in HER blood, HER power and she flips the terms of reproduction so that she is the one inscribing meaning into lifeless matter, animating clay. any marriage she now enters will be far more on her bodily terms. in fact, there doesn't have to be a husband or a son or even a legacy - she defines daenerys and she defines targaryen.

of course, personally this is still heartbreakingly sad for someone like dany who desperately wants a home and family. even as it potentially grants her more autonomy and forges a very important maternal bond with her dragons, daenerys is still left feeling isolated from and through her body.

[witchthewriter]

𝑷𝑨𝑹𝑻 𝑶𝑵𝑬: 𝐇𝐨𝐰 𝐞𝐚𝐜𝐡 𝐟𝐞𝐦𝐚𝐥𝐞 𝐀𝐒𝐎𝐈𝐀𝐅 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐰𝐨𝐮𝐥𝐝 𝐫𝐮𝐥𝐞

a/n: I will be doing this by House! Also, yes it doesn't make sense timeline wise but think of each as an alternate universe ✧˚ ༘ ⋆｡♡˚

𝑯𝑶𝑼𝑺𝑬 𝑻𝑨𝑹𝑮𝑨𝑹𝒀𝑬𝑵

𝑫𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒆𝒓𝒚𝒔 | 𝑴𝒐𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒐𝒇 𝑫𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒐𝒏𝒔

・She did as she promised and liberated Westeros.

・No Mad Queen, but sacrifices were made. However, all three of her dragons survived.

・The Long Night was vanquished because Dany was The Prince Who Was Promised.

・In a turn of events, Viserion was not a male dragon. Dany didn't have three sons... she had two and a daughter!

・Viserion laid her clutch of eggs not far from Dany as she wanted her to be the first person to see them.

・Her clutch of eggs produced three beautiful dragons; the biggest was a deep blue with flecks of gold and bronze. The second was a gorgeous pink egg with light orange accents and the last was purple with pearlescent swirling details.

・Dany became a grandmother and as soon as she saw them hatch, she cried.

・Barely anyone was allowed to see the dragonlings; even though she had risen to power, she still felt the eyes of enemies on her back. Many would love to hurt these new dragons.

・Dany still did not have a pregnancy that came to full term; so her dragons were truly her legacy, with Viserion keeping the magic back in the world.

・The hatching of these new eggs made the realm respect her even more.

・She didn't have a traditional way of ruling; yes she had councilors, and a small council.

・But the wealth was distributed equally. With smallfolk able to have jobs and acquire ones that usually only nobles had.

・Speaking of small councils, she had two of her closest bloodriders, Greyworm, Missendai (yes she is alive, well and thriving), Ellaria Sand and Samwell Tarly (Gilly and their son live in the Red Keep).

・As Dany could not have biological human children of her own, she basically saw every child/orphan as her own, in some way or another. She saw herself in them. Her childhood of always on the run, dirty clothes, knotted hair, clasping her brother's hand.

・She didn't want that for any child.

・So Dany spent a lot of her time building safe houses, schools, places where children could go and feel seen, heard and feel protected.

・A different Westeros was forming and many did not like that. Uprisings were frequent. Always from the Faith of the Seven & the old nobles.

・But every time they were stopped. However, those that repeated were thrown into prison (and therefore used to create new buildings) or were put to death.

(P.s., Ellaria Sand is her book self, not her show self because they are entirely different. Some events from the show never happened because it made no sense for Dany to wait so long to break the wheel.)

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒚𝒓𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒐𝒇 𝑫𝒓𝒂𝒈𝒐𝒏𝒔

・She won against her brother and sat the Iron Throne with a tired heart. Rhaenyra lost a lot more than she could handle and her days were spent fighting off her grief.

・That did not stop her from being the best queen she could be.

・Her energy was given to the people, to the dragons and to the restructure of House Targaryen.

・Since the Greens had nearly torn what it was to be a Targaryen, Rhaenyra had a lot to do. So, she depended on those who were loyal to her. Baela, Addam, Corlys, etc.

・Oh, and not to forget Syrax.

・Syrax kept a lot of people in check when they came to court.

・As the dragon pit was partially destroyed (the dragons were okay though, they survived, help came just in time!) the living dragons now roamed to find a proper place to live. Dragonstone became a lot more populated.

・The love of the dragons would be reintroduced. One way she would do that, would be to reinstate the idolisation of the dragons. I.e., basically showing off the dragons.

・So, more royal processions atop dragons.

・As a skilled dragonrider herself, Rhaenyra may have placed greater emphasis on the role of dragons and their riders in the defense and governance of the realm.

・It would not always be easy. Especially with the fact that Rhaenyra's rise to power involved the killing of her own nephew, Aegon II. This would cast a long shadow over her reign and create lingering resentment among some factions.

・But through the influence of Mysaria, the smallfolk and those less fortunate would definitely be focused on. No more fighting pits! (Let's remember that Aegon frequented them...)

・Additionally, through Rhaenyra's victory, there would be a shift in the balance of power among the noble houses. For example; The Hightowers, who backed Aegon II, might have lost influence, while the Velaryons and other supporters of Rhaenyra might have gained prominence. This is all up in the air however, as Rhaenyra did have a forgiving heart... (I mean, before all the war...)

・What I know to be true, is that Rhaenyra would have maintained a strong dragon presence in King's Landing. Positively - this would have deterred potential threats and rebellions. And also led to a more prominent role for the dragonriders in the governance of the realm.

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒚𝒔 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝑾𝒉𝒐 𝑾𝒂𝒔

・Is in history books as one of the best rulers

・Balanced, open-minded and level-headed; Rhaenys didn't need a council - she was one all on her own.

・She grew up never thinking she would rule; so she was quiet and watched everyone's moves

・The Sea Snake was a brilliant King-Consort, still the leader of Driftmark

・Meleys was truly The Red Queen; her own horns and spikes resembled Rhaenys' crown and when they were together, they were utterly breathtaking

・As said before with the others, with Rhaenys and her dragon, Meleys, in a position of power, the presence of dragons would have been more pronounced in the governance of the realm. This could have deterred potential rebellions and solidified her authority

・A lot of her reign would reflect her own grandmother's - The Good Queen Alysanne. 100% Rhaenys would continue with the women's councils.

・The women of Westeros would be given opportunities. I think Rhaenys would take a lot of inspiration from Dorne. And how women were equal to men, because why the hell not?

・And as a dragon rider, who was going to tell her no? Meleys was definitely not about to let anyone defy her either.

・However, one of her greatest allies was the North.

・And due to the North's historical resistance to female leadership, her ability to assert authority and govern effectively would sway Northern lords to reconsider their biases against women on the throne.

・So, by demonstrating strong leadership, it fostered greater acceptance of her rule among Northern houses, and increased their loyalty.

・This is only one example of how she got herself written in the history books.

𝑩𝒂𝒆𝒍𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏 𝒐𝒇 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑺𝒌𝒊𝒆𝒔

・Known for her bravery and strong character, Baela brought a fresh perspective to the Iron Throne. She prioritized unity among tTeam Black and Team Green and those that chose between Rhaenyra and Aegon.

・Baela addressed the grievances from various houses and the common folk alike - making a more equitable society.

・Jace's death was a great grief. As was ... basically all her family. It was quickly pushed forward that she needed to marry.

・Baela shut that shit down quick.

・She swore that if she were to marry, she would choose who and when.

・The scars left by the civil war were still fresh in the minds of many houses. Those that aligned with the Greens, sought to undermine Baela's rule, viewing her as a representative of the Blacks. This historical animosity had led to plots and conspiracies aimed at destabilizing her reign

・But it is mainly through the dragons that Baela remained in control. As charming, bold and brave Baela can be, Moondancer ... reinforced people's loyalty. With the death of the majority of Team Green as well as their dragons, there was only other Houses to oppose her.

・She was also known as 'Our Queen of the Skies'. And after ruling for more than 20 years, the people saw Baela as a goddess.

・Some say she was part dragon herself, with how much she was in the air, flying on Moondancer (who many, many children adored.)

・Many rumors grew which made Baela seem impossibly mysterious

・It made the people respect her; and therefore they listened to what she had to say.

・Even the others in court grew to respect her.

・Baela, much like Alysanne, had a ladies court in which she listened to the problems they had.

・Spare food was always given to the smallfolk, unlike other rulers who gave it to the dogs or horses.

・Baela's approach to governance altered the trajectories of other key figures in the realm

・Her leadership focused on healing the divisions within the realm, strengthening alliances, and leveraging the power of dragons to maintain peace and order.

𝑹𝒉𝒂𝒆𝒏𝒂 | 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑷𝒆𝒐𝒑𝒍𝒆'𝒔 𝑸𝒖𝒆𝒆𝒏

・Yes! her name reflects Princess Diana's real life title, 'The People's Princess'!

・Her reign would be known as one of peace.

・Well, not only peace, but a unique one as well.

・Rhaena addressed the grievances of the common folk and fostered goodwill among the people of both regions through fair governance and an empathic approach.

・The People's Queen shocked many, many people with how strategic she showed herself to be.

・She did this by navigating the political landscape and carefully addressing the concerns of powerful houses in both the North and the South which led to stability.

・Used her access to dragons as a symbol of authority and a powerful military asset to deter rebellion and reinforce her position.

・Rhaena's dragon Morning, hatched during the Dance of the Dragons and kept growing

・She was a very friendly dragon - similar to Silverwing, and didn't mind being paraded around

・Her experience with the devastation of the Dance of the Dragons, made Rhaena prioritize healing the rifts within the realm.

・Rhaena had strong ties to both the dragonriders and the great naval power of House Velaryon. This continued an emphasis on the Targaryen dominance of the skies, and the Velaryon's dominance on the seas.

・Rhaena's reign ushered in a cultural renaissance. The People's Queen promoted the arts, literature, and education. Her leadership style encouraged creativity and innovation, reflecting a more progressive and enlightened era in Westeros.