#maybe they were a trans woman maybe they were genderfluid or nonbinary or multigender

[shredsandpatches]

Super gross that they frame it as "scandalous subterfuge" and "breathtaking deception" like those aren't the classic transphobic canards, too. Barf.

theres so few trans men in the past because theyre all fucking buried as women😐

[contradictory-label-culture-is]

Contradictory label culture is merely existing in a way that isn't conventional enough to have been considered by coiners.

Multigender people especially are affected (like me I'm multigender.) How can you be nonbinary and a girl? I'm multigender, they are my genders. How can you be midbinary, binary, and abinary? I'm multigender, which label I use depends on if I'm talking about myself collectively or just one of my genders. How can you be cisgender and isogender? Because my aporinity is not cis but is distinctly transn't. But I still relate to cisness because of my being a girl. How can you be enbian and a woman? I'M MULTIGENDER!

It's sad that multigender people basically can't win with sexuality labels, like seriously, I think it needs more rep in media because of it! And someone who ..I don't think was exactly multigender? I think genderqueer? They said something SO simple (no offense) it was being sapphic and Achillean, but it was on tiktok so you know even simple "contradictory" labels are weird to them (there were good comments, btw) but still, someone genuinely thought "sapphic = lesbian, Achillean = gay" I'm sorry WHAT

That's the whole reason for the term sapphic and Achillean!! It's so that multisexual people feel included in wlw or MLM without people saying "lesbian relationship" while one of them is literally bisexual or pan or omni etc!! HOW did they think sapphic was lesbian??

Of course, (TikTok wouldn't like this) but people can be gay and a lesbian (Gaybian) BUT even if you couldn't, you can be wlw and MLM!! It's SO simple and I can't people TikTok was rotting people's brains this much.

And again, it's like multigender people can't live with a sexuality!! I'm gonna go over a few.

3: "erm abrosexual!!" No?? Did they say it was fluid, my guy?? No?? Not every multigender person is genderfluid and not every genderfluid person's sexuality is fluid!!

2: "Gynesexual!!" Yeah you would want someone to just use a term that's basically woman romantic, right? No offense to people who are Gynesexual, but there is absolutely no rep for it anyway, and guess what? Lots of people feel connected to the lesbian label. (Believe it or not, someone pulled out Gynesexual and abrosexual when debating me on my sexuality. Not this next one tho)

1 (absolutely number one goes toooooooo): "that's just STRAIGHT!!" Boom we have a winner!!! 🏆 Of being the dumbest exclusivist! Maybe this should go on r/one joke or r/one comeback!!! Am I right?? Here's several reasons why they wouldn't be straight.

First off, actually tell me how you think a woman loving woman is straight. "Well it cancels out cause you're a man too!!" No it doesn't. That's just multigender transphobia, or @transmultiphobia-discussion (hehe had to tag them, sorryyyy) trans multiphobia! But actually thinking that it's crazy a woman would call herself a lesbian cause she likes women is CRAZY (reminder! Multigender CAN be straight, I'm just pointing out the logic)

And again, it's like double the gayness if they also like men! It's wlw and MLM! That's SO gay! So how the hell is it wrong if they're gay?? And it's like hell ok earth if a monosexual multigender even breathes, like GOD.

I just wonder what they'd say if a multigender person said they're straight so uh... If you want to rant about someone who hates multigender lesbians/gays that also hated straight multigender people... Tell me!

[t4transsexual]

we need to normalize using certain terms as short hands. theres a lot of ways to stealth and that may include someone medically transitioning to male and telling people hes a trans man, when in reality hes nonbinary or genderfluid or multigender or agender or maybe even just a woman who transitioned, or hes questioning his gender entirely but just knows transitioning and living as a man is the right answer no matter what he is. basically if you thought someone was one thing and they tell you theyre something else actually, even if this was a recent revelation or they were stealthing, believe them

[angelbambifemme]

you realise alot of bi lesbians and mspec lesbians are advocating for lesbians dating and being intimate with men right?

their whose shtick is "well action doesnt mean attraction and back in the 60s bisexual women were called lesbians too and back in the 60s lesbians and gay men used to be intimate with each other all the time so if a lesbian wants to sleep with a man who cares? go for it! do what you want forever!!! even if it means being with a man cos thats sooo queer and different"

you realise how dangerous that is to lesbians, right? not to mention alot of them are weird about trans women, transfems and trans lesbians too

I mean yes, I am fully aware that some mspec lesbians advocate for intimacy with men. I don't agree with that at all, and I'm only okay with the mspec lesbians who don't. Such a generalizing statement could be made about a lot of identities - like how some lesbians advocate for the eradication of transgender people and their rights. I don't agree with those lesbians at all.

I suppose that I am what could be considered an "mspec lesbian" but I really don't feel comfortable defining myself that way, as I feel it's just not really for me. Especially not with the giant stigma around that identity.

I'm attracted to solely women, woman-aligned people, nonbinary/genderqueer people, and multigender people. i.e omnigender, genderfluid, pangender, etc.

I don't experience even slight attraction to men. That's why I feel just lesbian is enough to describe me. I often see people argue that multigender includes men, and while I understand where they're coming from, multigender also encompasses female and/or nonbinary identities. To me it just comes off as you only seeing their male part and nothing else, therefore just invalidating their gender identity as a whole. To some multigender people who don't experience each gender equally, maybe their female, nonbinary or other gender experience outweighs their male identity. The male gender is still there, but their other gender identity or identities are just more prominent.

What I mean when I say I don't support lesbians who date men, I mean cis and trans men. Male-aligned is okay to me, because male-aligned doesn't mean explicitly male. Example, transmasc people or demi boys. They're usually nonbinary identities that only partially fall into the binary of male or female; not wholly.

Hoping this makes sense! <3

[freckliedan]

just u mentioned it in one of ur recent ask replies, whats a fagdyke /genq and how is it different to . a dyke (i am also a dyke LMAO)

quite earnestly i have no way of answering this for everyone who IDs as a fagdyke but i can answer for myself! for me (& many others, to my knowledge) it's a gender thing. the very short version is that my gender is both fag and dyke, the way some people's gender is dyke.

i first started both ID'ing as a nonbinary lesbian whose gender was just dyke & using they/them pronouns in 2018 (the same year i made this blog). for me the main part of my identity at that time was the lesbianism? being othered from womanhood was a result of my sexuality.

because like. a lot of cishet womanhood is shaped by being attracted to men and performing gender in a way that's attractive to men. i embodied neither of those things, which automatically disqualified me from many people's definition of womanhood. so i was nonbinary not because i identified away from my assigned gender but because the consensus definition no longer included me.

i embraced dyke as gender, it's something i did very intentionally, but being nonbinary was still a secondary part of my identity. it wasn't until 2019 that i more fully interrogated my gender and started viewing transness as a more central part of my identity?

i started doing that interrogation when i started questioning whether lesbian was the best fit for me. my then-recently-nonbinary-partner was just beginning to explore gender more and i knew that if they someday realized they were a man & felt misgendered by me being a lesbian that lesbian would stop being the right fit for me.

which. that came fully from me? i worry about phrasing this in a way that'd somehow paint my husband in a negative light but it genuinely was just a point at which i started thinking directly about my gender rather than bypassing it by focusing on my sexuality. (and yes, they're my husband now, he's since figured out they're a nonbinary trans guy).

i stopped being nonbinary as an afterthought of lesbianism and started just being nonbinary which was! quite honestly a lot to process because i'd been ignoring it for a long time. but it's been half a decade and i've done my processing?

i realized that what's true for me is that my gender is both fluid and not singular. i label myself as queer and genderqueer when talking to cishet people, maybe as genderfluid/bigender/multigender if getting into the specifics. but that's not how i label myself to me or to my community? (well. queer is).

what i've realized is that like. my attraction is always queer. in a relationship with a woman or dyke aligned nonbinary person, my gender would be more dyke than anything else. in my relationship with my husband my gender is more fag, & the same would be true in a relationship with anyone whose gender is more aligned with man/fag.

(i say more in both of those examples because like. my gender still fluctuates for other reasons. i have days where i feel very little internal sense of gender. i have days where i experience both fag as a gender and dyke as a gender at the same time. the list goes on).

my gender is contextual in a lot of ways—the way i experience gender is different in the more rural red state used to live in vs the big city in a blue state i now call home. but the context of relationships is one of the biggest ones, because it's one of the biggest impacts on how other people percieve me.

like, to strangers and aquaintences i am my husband's husband or spouse, because it's most important to me to be understood as queer. but in much more personal circles i also sometimes call myself his wife, because that's sometimes a more accurate reflection of my gender and the people who i'm comfortable calling myself that around already are familiar with how i experience gender & with the fact that our relationship is queer.

i know that a lot of people likely view fag and dyke as two mutually exclusive identities, as an extension of the binary of man and woman. but even when i was just IDing as a nonbinary dyke i had more in common with nonbinary fags than with cis women. and the fact that i am a dyke has not gone away now that i've also realized i am a fag.

in full i'd describe myself as a fairy fagdyke femme. fag goes first because it's how i more often present myself to the world.

i know i'm not the only person with seemingly contradictory identities like this, but it's not something i talk the most about? a LOT of the queer community constantly regurgitates subtly bioessentialist & transphobic ideas that make it like.. uncomfortable (at best) to be present in both lesbian and gay men's spaces as a bigender/multigender person.

so i primarily connect with other trans people, especially genderfreaks like me.

ummm my last note here is. for many other fagdykes or dykefags their definition of the label and personal experience is completely different from mine! it can be the same thing as being a dyke. some dykes are transmasc but still have dyke as their main gender and identity. i'm barely scratching the surface on this.

[cardentist]

I want to say this right at the top, because it's important to me and seems to be an undercurrent of where this miscommunication is happening.

I need you to understand, multigender people Exist. people who are both men AND women exist. genderfluid people exist. people who's gender and sexuality are complicated EXIST. and THAT is why there are trans men who are lesbians.

there are trans men who are women who exclusively love women. there are trans men who have Been lesbians for decades and decades who still identify, in some way, with the community for that reason.

and the same is true in every other direction ! there are trans women who are Also men, who are nonbinary, who are a secret third thing. there's people who are multi-gender or genderfluid but don't identify with any binary gender. there's lots of ways that people can have gender, and that impacts the ways that people interact with sexuality

to say that it's insulting or transphobic for trans men to be lesbians Fundamentally misunderstands what the argument is. to point at a multigender person and tell them that their relationship with their sexuality is Wrong because they aren't woman Enough to identify with it is harmful!

and again, I very intentionally did not make any assumptions about what you personally intended or what your beliefs are, because I didn't (and don't) want to make assumptions. but it feels to me (based on this interaction) that this isn't an aspect of the conversation that you're familiar with.

and I Do want to point out my blog description. I am trans masc and I am trans fem. I WAS a lesbian who wanted to look like a man, and now I'm a man who wants to look like a lesbian (and many other things, gender and sexuality is complicated and fluid and I'm intentionally wording this very loosely to fit the conversation).

and I'm not saying this to imply that I have More of a right to speak on this than you do, absolutely not. but I'm saying that I'm a multigender/genderweird person who has been in wlw spaces before (though I'd personally identify as pan or maybe bi nowadays). which is Part of why I engaged with the original post, and this repost.

part, because that's not the only aspect.

the wording in the first image (the one that you reposted by itself) could Very Very Easily be posted by a terf word for word. terfs very commonly say "men" when they mean trans women, and "why do women date men when they can have the real thing" ESPECIALLY can come off as extremely transmisogynistic in the right context.

THAT'S why the wording of the post read as off to me, taking bigots words and twisting them back on them only works when the context and intent is clear. this image by itself CAN read as transmisogynistic without context, though I assumed that isn't what you meant. but part of that is because I'd already seen the other post where it Also included an image about trans lesbians.

and it's Also, worth noting that twisting a bigot's talking points is no longer ironic when it's being used to hurt another minority group.

I was originally off-put by the wording of the post Because of how it tied back in to the way that terfs talk about trans women, but the post Also seemed to be in support of trans women, so I decided to check the notes and op's blog to see if it was safe to interact with.

and they were ALREADY putting down trans men and mascs, both on the post itself AND on their blog, before I had ever interacted with them. I did a little digging and found that they were already an open exclusionist.

these weren't assumptions on my part, I looked into it a Saw what they were doing. when they say that trans men CAN'T be lesbians, they meant that very literally. trans men and mascs noticed the word choice and the intent behind them because of the other moments where they've expressed these things before.

the first time I'd made my response to them on that post they locked it so nobody could reblog from me. then I made a separate post, namely because I felt what I'd written was important, and THAT'S when they'd unlocked it and then edited the post to say. all of this.

these happened within minutes of each other, it was a direct cause and effect.

I pointed out that they were an exclusionist borrowing radfem talking point to take a swing at multi-gender trans mascs, and they Admitted To It and told me to kill myself.

so you know. not great.

I don't know if you're willing to hear me out on any of this considering how things have already gone. but this isn't about pitting trans mascs and trans fems against each other. this is about taking care of the people who belong to BOTH communities. who share spaces.

[hella-aro]

Allosexual aromantic survey results

Hello! Here are the results of the survey I ran asking a few questions to allosexual aromantic people. I’m putting the data, together with a couple things I have to say, under the cut in order not to make this post too long. Just to be clear, the size sample is not very big, and since the survey link was only posted on tumblr, results will not necessarily be indicative of the whole community.

The first question was there as control. It asked if people were aromantic and allosexual, and if the person selected “no”, it took them at the end of the survey. Out of a total of 535 responses, there were 53 “no”s, which means the number of people who actually participated goes down to 482.

To the question, What is you romantic orientation?, out of 482 people

- 267 (55.4%) identified as aromantic

- 174 (36.1%) identified as arospec (demi, grey, etc.)

- 41 (8.5%) answered questioning

To, What is your gender identity?, out of 482 people

- 206 (42.5%) identified as cis women

- 72 (14.9%) identified as nonbinary

- 45 (9.3%) identified as trans men

- 33 (6.8%) identified as genderfluid

- 28 (5.8%) identified as agender

- 27 (5.6%) answered questioning

- 25 (5.2%) identified as cis men

- 20 (4.1%) identified as demigender

- 3 (0.6%) identified as trans women

These were the options I had given in the survey, in addition to this, 4 (0.8%) people identified as bigender, 3 (0.6%) people identified as nonbinary trans men, and 2 (0.4%) people identified as genderqueer. Other gender identities people included were bigender/genderqueer, guy (don’t want to disclose if trans), bigenderfluid, demigirl/demiboy, does not label gender, utrinque girl, fluidflux, nb/agender/transmasc/queer, neutrois, genderqueer multigender, neurogender, agenderflux, genderless woman, transmasculine genderqueer, all of which got 1 response each.

To, What is your sexual orientation?, out of 482 people

- 154 (32%) identified as bisexual

- 98 (20.3%) identified as pansexual

- 59 (12.2%) identified as heterosexual

- 41 (8.5%) answered questioning

- 39 (8.1%) answered I do not label my sexual orientation

- 31 (6.4%) identified as lesbian

- 19 (3.9%) identified as gay

- 10 (2.1%) identified as abrosexual

- 5 (1%) identified as polysexual

These were the options I had given, in addition to this 3 (0.6%) people identified as queer. Other identities were pansexual but multiple microlabels apply, androsexual/queer, toric, questioning grey-bisexual, homosexual but not comfortable using lesbian because of other attractions, homosexual, straight or queer with a strong preference for men or abrosexual, questioning bi/gay/ace, anyone except girls, questioning lesbian, omnisexual, both bi and ply, a combination of bi and pan, queer/questioning, fluctuating, all of which received 1 response each. One response was transphobic, and I will therefore not share it.

In addition, 7 (1.4%) people gave answers for identities that were part of the asexual spectrum (specifically, demi-bi, propeestsexual, pan-akoisexual, asexual, demisexual, acespike, greysexual), now while I have not erased any of these responses, as I suppose these people had their reason to take part in this survey and the number is low enough to not significantly skew the results, I would like to ask ace people to please, let allosexual aromantics have their own things. Aromanticism and asexuality are already very conflated, and while obviously aroace people deserve to be heard so do allo aro people. Can we please make our stuff, thank you? (More on this, towards the end)

On another note, the total percentage of m-spec people (counting bi, pan, ply people and those who put their own m-spec labels as well) is 55% of the total. This means statistically the most represented group in the survey was cis multisexual women.

To, Do you experience other types of attraction other than sexual?, out of 479 people

- 376 (78.5%) stated they feel platonic attraction

- 361 (75.4%) stated they feel aesthetic attraction

- 246 (51.4%) stated they feel sensual attraction

- 156 (32.5%) stated they feel alterous attraction

- 39 (8.1%) stated they don’t feel any of the above or don’t find them meaningful

In addition, three people stated they were unsure, one person stated they feel emotional attraction, one person stated they feel kindred spirit attraction, one person stated they feel queerplatonic attraction, one person stated they cannot conceptualize those attractions. One person has given a description of the way they feel attraction which I’ll quote, “I feel like it's a triangle spectrum, with aesthetic/sexual/romantic attraction on the corners, and sensuous/alterous/platonic somewhere in that triangle”. Keep in mind people were allowed to choose more than one of these, so the total numbers are higher than the number of respondents

To, If you experience any of the mentioned attraction, are they more or less important to you than your sexual attraction?, out of 460 people

- 221 (48%) said they are about equally important

- 174 (37.8%) said their other attraction(s) are more important to them than their sexual attraction

- 65 (14.1%) said their sexual attraction is more important to them than their other attraction(s)

To, If you experience any of the mentioned attractions, do they align with your sexual attraction?, out of 462 people

- 183 (39.6%) stated they don’t find it meaningful to label their other attractions

- 124 (26.8%) stated that some of them do, others don’t

- 121 (26.2%) stated that they are aligned

- 34 /7.4%) stated that they are not aligned

To, Do you feel the way you experience sexuality is different from that of an alloromantic person due to your aromanticism?, out of 482 people

- 303 (62.9%) said yes

- 143 (29.7%) said maybe

- 36 (7.5%) said no

To, Do you think your aromanticism made it difficult to identify your sexual orientation or viceversa?, out of 482 people

- 246 (51%) said experiencing sexual attraction made it harder to identify their aromanticism

- 126 (26.1%) said being aromantic made it harder to identify their sexual attraction

- 57 (11.8%) said they didn’t know

- 53 (11%) said they didn’t have issues like this

To, Do you feel your aromanticism or you sexual attraction is more important than the other?, out of 481 people

- 253 (52.6%) said they are about equally important

- 167 (34.7%) said their aromanticism is more important

- 61 (12.7%) said their sexual attraction is more important

To, Do you feel connected to the community of your sexual orientation?, out of 480 people

- 204 (42.5%) said yes, sometimes

- 99 (20.6%) said no, because of my aromanticism

- 90 (18.8%) said yes, always

- 87 (18.1%) said no, because of reasons unrelated to my aromanticism

To, Do you feel connected to the aromantic community?, out of 480 people

- 217 (45.2%) said yes, sometimes

- 170 (35.4%) said yes, always

- 71 (14.8%) said no, because of reasons unrelated to my sexuality

- 22 (4.6%) said no, because of my sexuality

Out of the people who said they don’t feel connected to the community of their sexuality due to their aromanticism, 45.5% stated they feel connected to the aromantic community sometimes, 36.4% feel always connected with it, while 10.1% don’t feel connected to it due to reasons unrelated to their sexuality. 8.1% said they don’t feel connected with it due to their sexuality.

On the other side, out of people who said they don’t feel connected to the aromantic community due to their sexuality, 40.9% said they feel connected to the community of their sexual orientation sometimes, 18.2% felt always connected with it, while 4.5% don’t feel connected to it due to reasons unrelated to their aromanticism. 36.4% said they don’t feel connected with it due to their aromanticism.

Now, a not: before I share data for the last two questions, I have to say that I made a mistake in how I made them. These questions asked people if someone ever assumed things about them due to them being aromantic and allosexual, however I did not ask beforehand if people had come out or not. Because of this, the answers also include those of people who never came out, who obviously have never had anything assumed about them upon doing so. I apologize for this mistake, once I realized it I had already received a high number of responses and couldn’t change it at that point. I’ll report the percentages I got, but remember the numbers are not completely correct.

To, Have you ever been accused of being predatory due to being allosexual aromantic?, out of 480 people

- 209 (43.5%) said no, never. This number also includes people who never came out

- 118 (24.6%) said yes, once or twice

- 94 (19.6%) said unsure

- 59 (12.3%) said yes, many times

To, Have you ever had anyone assume your levels of sexual activity due to being allosexual aromantic?, out of 479 people

- 196 (40.9%) said no, never. This number also includes people who never came out

- 116 (24.2%) said unsure

- 91 (19%) said yes, once or twice

- 76 (15.9%) said yes, many times

The last part of the survey asked people if they had additional comments to leave. I won’t copy paste all of them, otherwise this post would get terribly long, but I’ll give a basic rundown.

First of all, many people stated that being allosexual and aromantic leads them to being stereotyped as cold, selfish and sex-obsessed, and some said they refrain from engaging in sexual relationships even when they would want one because they are scared they will be expected to develop feelings for their partner. At the same time, some allosexual aros feel excluded from lgbt+/queer spaces. This hasn’t just come from heterosexual aros, but from otherwise queer aros as well, because they feel they will fall under the stereotype of the “bad” sexually promiscuous queer. I’ll give examples:

- even though i would like to have sexual relationships i’m afraid to pursue any because i’m worried the person will think i want to approach them romantically as well or i’ll accidentally lead someone on because they’ll think i have feelings for them so i don’t have sex with anyone and it makes me question my sexuality too because then it’s like “well if you’re afraid to have sex with anyone do you even really want to in the first place” so that’s my biggest issue currently if that helps 

- being straight (or generally perceived as straight; it's really hard to tell because my different types of attraction make it really hard to tell and it's generally easier to find male partners) and arospec makes me feel unwanted by both groups. Around non queer people I have to hide being aro to keep from being accused of being abusive or "just a whore". I've gotten accusations like "you only like me for sex" after coming out. Around other queer people I'm told I'm unwelcome and feel like I have to provide a thesis on my experiences and a stamp from like, the queer pope or something in order to be considered and even then I'm told to get raped and die. I feel like there's nowhere I belong, despite feeling connected to the queer community because it feels like that's where I'm supposed to belong. 

- I had a hard time realising what my sexual orientation was because of being aro AND being sexually attracted to people made understanding I was aro harder. I don't always feel connected to being gay and a part of that community Because I'm aro; I constantly feel unwelcome and "unallowed" to be there, and I constantly feel as if I'm considered one of the bad impure gays because of stereotypes of allo aro people. I feel as if I'm constantly erased by both non aspecs and other aspecs because of being allosexual and aro. the arguments to exclude me never even include me. I'm told "not wanting to fuck" isn't queer, and I'm also told that having sexuality while being queer is homophobic. I'm not thought of but I also am shamed and excluded. it's awful. Also, I'm gay, but my aromanticism has caused me far more problems, and aro problems are never talked about. I feel so invisible.

I’ve also received three different comments which can all be summed up as bi aro people feeling like the stereotypes around bisexual people and allosexual aro people align very closely, therefore feeling as if they are “bad” bi people.

At the same time, multiple people have expressed that they feel alienated from the aro community because they feel aroace voices are far louder than allo aros. Some people have even said that some people refuse to believe them when they say they are aromantic and allosexual because they see aromanticism being always connected to aceness. Examples:

- the reason i sometimes dont click with the ato community is because to me it feels like the biggest part are aroace people and they are the most vocal. and it feels like i lose my voice then. unless im in a non ace group.

- I feel that my attractions are all really deeply connected,  which i think may be at least partually due to my aromanticim. Like i think i connect aesthetic, platonic, and sexual attraction in a similar way to the connection an alloromantic allosexual might have between romantic and sexual attraction. This is not 100% of the time, though, and while i usually dont get squishes on people i am not sexually and/or aesthetically attracted to, i can still form platonic relationships with people i am not aesthetically or sexually attracted to just as easily. (im pretty young so i dont have experience with the other two (what would an aesthetic relationship be anyway lmao)). Also, on the subject of people assuming things based on the fact im an allo aro, i do have a lot of people assuming im ace based on the fact im aromantic. Oftentimes they will even forget that i told them i was aro in the first place, but remember the fact that I am supposedly “ace”, which i never said. This fact makes me rather uncomfortable, and also partially leads me to somehow having more of a connection to the term allosexual than any of the many sexual orientations ive tried labelling myself with. I dont know if this is problematic or not, but “Allosexual aromantic” is the way i think of my identity for the most part, not simply aro.

I had originally planned to not put personal comments on this post, but I find I must say something now. This is an, interesting situation, we could say. There are both allo aros who have been stereotyped as too sexual, and allo aros whose allosexuality has been completely erased. While the first situation plays into a lot of other issues, when it comes to the second I would like to ask aroace people: please, please, boost allo aros voices. I know many aroaces have said that they’ve felt erased by the ace community, try to not have the same happen in the aro community. Some aroace people are extremely supportive of allo aros, of course, but I find I can’t disagree when people say overall allo aros are very sidelined in the community.

To move on, a couple arospec people have said they didn’t feel included in the allo aro community on grounds of not feeling that their arospec identity is considered aro enough.

- The times I don’t feel connected to bi/pansexual community (I use both terms) are when romanticism is highlighted (e.g., “love is love,” “hearts not parts” – which is problematic for several reasons anyways). The times I don’t feel connected to aro community don’t have to do with my sexual orientation, but with being quoiromantic.  Sometimes people want to draw a hard line between aro and alloro folks, and I just can’t sort myself into either category.

Again, fellow aros, let’s support arospecs a little more.

And other than this, there have been people who have elaborated on how their aromanticism or allosexuality have made it harder to identify the other. Such as:

- An additional answer to the question about sexuality/aromanticism influencing the realization of each other: I'm exclusively attracted to one gender, and when I was first questioning one of the first things I noticed is that my romantic and sexual orientations didn't line up - there was such a clear, distinct difference between my attraction to men and other genders, but there was no such preference when considering the possibility of a romantic relationship, and so on one hand it made it more confusing for sure, but also established early on that my romantic orientation wasn't something typical, which did help out in a way too; this is a pretty unique experience I feel like, applying pretty much only to single gender-attracted aros, but I thought I would share it anyway!

- I struggled a lot between deciding if I could be a lesbian if I didn’t find myself romantically attracted to all girls, but was sexually attracted to most. I assumed it was misogyny and that I would grow out of it. That was not the case but coming to terms with that was hard. 

- Because of our aromanticism, i feel like many people don't know who they are sexually attracted to and it leads to confusion for many years. Heck, I still don't really know who I want to have sex with! 

- It wasn't until my mid twenties that I even learned aromanticism existed. I spent many years, especially in college, thinking that I was somehow broken and wrong because I couldn't love my partners like others did. I still find it way too easy to slip back into that mentality.

Finally, here’s a couple comments that brought up points no one else did:

- I'm also a relationship anarchist and just recently in that community someone said that "romantic attraction" is nothing but a con, it doesn't exist, and alloromantic and aromantic people are just dealing with the consequences of that fake idea in different ways. I felt invalidated as fuck.

- I don’t know what alterous is. Also I feel it’s important to mention that I personally consider my romantic identity connected to my autism as I view romance as an aspect of socialization. Thank you.

And that, folks, is all. I hope someone has found this interesting.

[zorilleerrant]

...but am I trans?

That’s a big question. Maybe too big. Let’s break it down instead.

Do I like my name?

Here’s a big thing people get caught up on: they either think they can’t be trans, because they like the gendered name they’ve been using, or they think they must be trans, because they like some other gendered name. There are plenty of reasons you might like a name, gender aside! Instead of asking yourself what it has to do with your gender, make a list of names you like, or stick with one (or several) you’re already using. You can use whatever name you want, even if it doesn’t ‘match’ your gender, and you don’t have to be trans to change your name. Pick one that makes you happy!

What pronouns do I want to use?

A lot of trans people like to stick with the pronouns they’ve used since they were little because they’re used to them, especially nonbinary people, who might not like any of the options we have right now. A lot of nonbinary people also prefer to switch to the other binary pronoun to reinforce that they’re not their assigned gender (since many people have trouble understanding nonbinary genders). Both nonbinary and binary trans people may use their assigned pronouns or multiple pronouns, to prevent people from trying to harass them using pronouns, or to make it hurt less when they do. And regardless of whether people are cis or trans, there’s a long history of women using he/him, men using she/her, or either using they/them or some of the longstanding neopronouns. Find pronouns that feel comfortable to you, and go ahead and ask your friends to use them. Even if you like more than one set! You can always change your mind if you stop liking them, or find something you like better.

What gendered terms do I want people to use for me?

This can be things like titles - Mr./Ms./Mx. - or things that refer to someone in a gendered way - brother, sister, sibling. These often won’t match up to the pronouns someone uses, so don’t worry if they’re different! Many people want to use things that are gender neutral in a political way, regardless of their gender. Other people might want to use gendered terms for the same reasons as pronouns, and that’s pretty common regardless of gender. Many people prefer a mix of things, or prefer different things in different situations. Figure out what makes you comfortable! Don’t try to figure out what gender label you like first, because that’s much harder; instead of asking whether people should call you things like man, woman, nonbinary, ask whether you want to be called boyfriend, girlfriend, datemate. There are a lot more possible combinations here than with pronouns, so take your time.

Do I want to change my body shape?

This is a difficult question for a lot of people, because they focus only on what they find upsetting about their bodies, and then try to gauge whether it’s upsetting ‘enough’. That’s not the question, though. If there are things that it would make you less upset if you changed them, that’s important! But if there are things that would make you happier if you changed them, regardless of how you feel right now, that’s important, too! It may be difficult to weight the pros and cons, but you should try out some shaping garments if that seems like a thing that might be helpful to you. You could also try wearing clothes that emphasize or deemphasize different aspects of your body. Many trans people don’t feel this way, and many cis people do feel this way, so you don’t have to figure out whether you’re trans first. If you feel this way only some of the time, that’s pretty common, too! A lot of multigender people feel like that regularly, but binary people (cis and trans) do too sometimes. There’s a lot of different experiences out there, so you should try different things and see what makes you happy.

Do I want to change how my body looks to other people or to me?

If you only want to change how other people see your body, how they read your physical form, or what you look like in public, you probably don’t want to do much to change your anatomy. That’s likely to make you feel worse, if anything. You should look into shaping garments, prostheses, and makeup. Then, when you’re alone, you can take it all off. If you’d like to change your body even if you were all alone and no one could see it, then you should think about hormones and surgery. Not altogether, though! Think of each potential step separately, and consider it independent of everything else. If you’d like only part of it, that’s usually possible! A lot of people have undergone modified hormone regimens, and more are being designed all the time. Surgeries usually have a lot of potential variation, too! There’s actually a pretty long history of people who identify with their agab getting HRT and/or surgery, so you can do this even if you’re pretty sure you identify with your assigned gender - you would just need to find doctors who are supportive of patient choice above gatekeeping. Many nonbinary people also get HRT/surgery. Many nonbinary people don’t, and many binary trans people also don’t. Don’t worry about how it reflects on your identity, just ask yourself whether you’d like to change your body, and if so, how.

What flags do I like? What words sound good to me?

Just look around. If there are words that call to you, even if you’re not sure how you feel about their definitions, go ahead and use them for a while. You can try telling a few of your friends. You don’t have to tell anyone at all. Just try on the words, and if you like them, keep them. If you don’t, find new ones. If you change your mind later, go ahead and pick new terms! You can keep them as long as you want, or change them as often as you want. And you can definitely pick more than one! Same goes for flags. Shop around and see which ones you like best, even if they don’t seem to fit your identity. You can get stickers or make little drawing on sticky notes and keep them around you while you’re deciding, if you want - some of them will probably start to make you happier or mean more to you than others. And you can have as many as you want!

How do I want to dress?

This might be a different question in different circumstances. Maybe you want to wear things at home totally unlike what you wear in public, or wear things with some friends and not others. This will be different for everyone. Many people don’t feel comfortable wearing different clothing to work, even when they’re very sure they’re trans, for example. Ask whether you want to wear ‘men’s clothing’ or ‘women’s clothing’, or things that are considered masculine or feminine. Many cis people wear gender non-conforming clothes, and so do many binary trans people. Nonbinary people often have strongly gendered presentations. And almost everybody wears something androgynous at least some of the time. This is likely to change over time and in different circumstances, too. For some people this is totally unrelated to their gender. For other people, this is an important factor in their gender, both because presentation can influence how you feel about your gender, and because your relationship to your gender can influence how you want to present. It’s not necessary for you to figure out your gender before you figure out how you want to dress, and for you personally, it might not be important at all. In any case, figuring out what clothing and accessories you like and what makes you feel good will help you be happier and more at home with yourself, regardless of your gender.

What groups make me feel most accepted? Where do I feel like myself?

If you spend time in different community spaces, some of them will seem to speak more to your experience than others. Some of them will seem more welcoming. Some of them will feel like you’re just playing along, others will seem more authentic. This isn’t foolproof by any means, because lots of communities don’t resonate with people for reasons unrelated to gender, and sometimes there are just mean people around. But these kinds of feelings can sometimes tell you what direction to look in to find your gender. Look for positivity and advice posts, too; some of them will feel like they’re addressed to you more than others. And remember, this can change over time! Sometimes quickly, especially in the case of genderfluid and genderflux people, but sometimes after many years. This might mean your identity changed, or your understanding of it changed, or just the way you most want to express it changed. Any of those is okay! If you feel confident in some identity, find a group that supports you in that identity, because groups all have different dynamics. Or, if you find a group you really relate to, try to find other groups with a similar feel if you’re still questioning. You can question for as long as you need to, and as many times as you need to. No harm in that, especially if your feelings changed.

Do I like the word ‘trans’?

Well, how do you feel about it? Do you feel happy when you think about it, does it make you smile? Or maybe you feel indifferent. Maybe you feel discordant thinking about that, like it’s off somehow. If any of the above questions seems to address your concerns, you definitely fall within the wider trans umbrella, the one that was originally invented to create solidarity around gender identity and presentation. So you can feel free to call yourself trans if you like it even a little bit. Or, if you dislike it, there’s no reason you have to call yourself trans. The label is there to help people, not put you in yet another box. If you don’t have much feeling about it either way, or you can’t tell how you feel, there’s no reason you have to decide. Think about the things that will make a difference in your day to day life, instead of getting hung up on a single word, no matter how much weight it might seem to carry socially. You can always decide later, and you can always change your mind.

[lavenderphoenix99]

wow. just wow.

this is why i'm sick of queer people creating yet another binary like "women and nonbinary vs non women" "women and nonmen vs cishet men" "trans and nonbinary vs cis"

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

like quick, tell me, you transmultiphobic person, what is the definition of nonbinary again? what is the definition of genderqueer again???

why do we, as a community, shove a group of people who identifies as something that is LITERALLY OUT OF THE BINARY, as one category, yet again!!!??

why do we, as a community, not understanding and learning more about people whose identities literally q u e e r s gender, and to think that maybe, just maybe, they can't and won't be ever be quantified within "basically cis" or "basically trans" in their gender, just for a DAMN second????

like, just, just, THIIIINK about it, what @/transmultiphobia-discussion just said (with some addition of mine) about why genderfluid people might not identify as trans, you transmultiphobe bitchass:

genderfluid people can be fluid between genders that are close to their assigned gender at birth, and they damn well are welcome to identify as cis, and they're no less genderfluid because of it

maybe a genderfluid person feels like their cisgender part of their identity wants to be acknowledged, and so they don't wholly ID as trans, and like, you should respect that actually??? to acknowledge the wholeness of a person's gender??? crazy shit!!

and then i'll go over the main shit show from that piece of damned shit of a transmultiphobic human being:

HOW FUCKING INFLATED YOUR DAMN EGO WAS WHEN YOU TYPED THAT??? """MY COMMUNITY"""???

NOT ONLY YOU'RE DEAD WRONG, BECAUSE YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY NOT THE ARBITER OF THE NONBINARY/GENDERQUEER COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY WITH SUCH SHIT ASS ATTITUDE,

THERE IS LITERALLY NO OWNER OF NONBINARY/GENDERQUEER COMMUNITY, YOU'RE JUST BEING MASK-OFF GATEKEEPING, PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY BEING SHOVED OUT OF IT, THE SPACES THAT ARE SUPPOSEDLY ACCEPTING OF ANY AND ALL KINDS OF NONBINARY/GENDERQUEER PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

AND YOU KNOW DAMN FUCKING WELL, AS A NONBINARY PERSON YOURSELF, WHAT IT WOULD BRING TO US, IF WE WERE FORCIBLY EJECTED FROM OUR OWN COMMUNITY????

like... oh my goodness,

sorry not sorry for the extreme wording about this, but as an ambonec agender transmasc myself, i just can NOT stay silent about the erasure and ignorance about transmultiphobia issues anymore, i just CANNOT stand it when i see people erase one of my identity, erase my whole fucking transness, just because identify as a cisgender straight woman sometimes

i'm sick and tired of seeing me, and many many other people like me, treated as "JUST x" or "JUST y" not "x AND y" regarding our gender, and thus weaponize our multigenderedness against ourselves in order to feel good and... what? powerful? authoritative? inside your silly "safe spaces" (that are probably not safe in the first place)????

man, just... grow the fuck up. touch grass. go to a real life queer community event/spaces/communities, i promise there are people there who are being themselves and don't give a rat's ass about who is ackshually trans or who is ackshually cis, as long as they're being respectful there

anyways, OP, i hope you don't have to face those nasty ass gatekeeper again in your life, ever, and i suggest just swiftly block and report, if possible, people like those, and i'm sending you love <3 <3 <3 you're always welcome and supported here

and @transmultiphobia-discussion thank you SOOOOO DAMN MUCH for starting this discussion and bring our issues to light; the multigender/bigender/genderfluid/poly/pan/omnigender community are not going away anytime soon, we're here, we're queer, we won't be silenced anymore and we WILL fuck shit up if you dare mess with us

like the cool kids say: play stupid games, win stupid prizes

bye <3

(oh and btw, @transmultiphobia-discussion if you want me to take down this reblog because of the strongly worded response, please do tell me in the DMs! I understand if my words are making you uncomfortable)

I'm so pissed off right now

My mutual reblogs a post disrespecting genderfluid people who don't identify as trans. I'm not looking at the post so I might get some things wrong but the wording was approximately this:

"not all genderfluid people are trans" ...are you smoking crack? No one's AGAB is genderfluid. If you don't exclusively identify with your AGAB, you are trans. That's all the word means. By definition, all genderfluid people are trans. Stop being stupid.

Now, I'm not genderfluid, but I'm bigender so I share the multigender community and larger nonbinary/genderqueer community with them. I am also not trans. I'm isogender and I'm cisgender. I reblog with a long takedown of their claim, explaining why some genderfluid people (and why I, a person who doesn't exclusively identify with my AGAB) may not identify with being trans. I went over why personal identity matters more than the definition of transgender, that it's inclusive so people are welcomed into it if they wish to identify that way, but it's not an enforced identity. That they have to respect the identities of genderfluid, multigender, and nonbinary people who are not trans. I thought this person might just be meaning well but needing some opposition, but this bitch responds with (approximate wording again:)

So, just to be clear: You, a self-identified cisgender woman, come onto My (nonbinary and been out for 10 years) post about MY community to call me stupid for saying trans people are trans? Cool. #transphobia #enbyphobia #cis people shut the fuck up challenge

I just. That really showed their transmultiphobia. I am the gender that better suits their argument. The way they contrasted me being a cis woman with them being nonbinary, then calling it "MY community" very implicitly is degendering me, stripping me of my nonbinary/aporagender identity because it's easier to feign a point by saying I'm a cis woman, therefore an outsider who has no right to argue with them, a nonbinary person, on the topic. Also the fact they accepted my identity as a cisgender woman despite the fact their post that I replied to would have categorized me as transgender.

I am not a fucking outsider in the discussion! I don't identify as trans but that's irrelevant because the post wasn't about the trans community. It was about the nonbinary community. It was about the multigender community that I share with genderfluid people. IT WAS ABOUT NON-TRANS GENDERQUEER PEOPLE. MY COMMUNITY. NOT THEIRS. MINE. The post was blatantly disrespecting my identity, even if naming genderfluid people. I had every right to respond! I had every right to be in the discussion! I had every right to defend genderfluid people who might identify in the same way I do! Or the way *I* identify!

Clearly they didn't have a real response but they didn't want to read my response with an open mind. Didn't want to consider that there are non-trans genderqueer people. So I'm degendered, for the purpose of painting me as an outsider instead of acknowledging that I am a fellow genderqueer person who just doesn't identify as trans

classic example of "multigender people are whatever gender category that is most convenient to the person" folks!

jeez that makes me so angry. make a post about how all people like yourself are trans no matter how they actually describe themselves, and when you say something, suddenly you are, in fact, cis to them. may seem contradictory, but this happens to multigenders all the time. I've been called a predatory male, a confused trans man who won't fully accept is transness, and a cis woman invading trans spaces just by being a bigender lesbian. none of it is consistent nor makes any sense! but since I exist in multiple gendered categories, people refuse to accept them simultaneously and put me in whichever one fits their worldview. is convenient to their argument, by how much they like me and tolerate me.

and it is very telling that they view genderfluid as a gender in of itself, rather than a descriptor for someone's genders- the same way people go "multigender women/men aren't women/men, they're multigender!" The case of not seeing multigender people's identities as legitimate as monogender people's and having to settling for just "multigender," or else you're an invader or a predator to those monogender people. because if they did, it would make total sense why a genderfluid person might call themselves cis- some only switch between genders closely aligned to their assigned gender, for an example. like it's totally up to the person to describe their experiences with their gender identity and if cis more closely describes that than trans, even if they're not perfectly binary, that's fine!

I feel like messing with the cis/trans dichotomy and blurring the lines a bit is necessary is normalizing transhood and dismantling cisnormativity. like they're built off of the phenomenon of assigned gender at birth and forcibly assigned gender roles, "cis" being the default and "trans" considered divergent. if they're no longer assigned to people, is the gender binary is no longer relevant, then what significance would those terms really have anymore? if there is no "cis" or "trans," just people that exist as they please right from the get-go? isn't that what we want? why strictly enforce them onto anyone?

[redtail-lol]

You stop being stupid. Not all genderfluid people are trans. Not all nonbinary people are trans. Not all multigender people are trans. You have to respect our identities based on our own lived experiences and what feels right. You have to believe us more than you believe the definition of transgender.

Identity is complicated, especially fluid identity. Whoever decided there should be a binary of "trans" and "cis" and it should be enforced on nonbinary people was an idiot. The meaning of trans is that inclusive so that it can welcome everyone who is nonbinary, genderfluid, multigender, etc. not so it could be forced onto people who don't want it. You have no right to force the transgender identity onto everybody who is genderqueer in some way if they don't want to be called trans. You have no right to say every genderfluid person is trans when there are genderfluid people in the world who do not identify as trans!

There's more to words than definitions. There are connotations, and when it comes to words that describe an identity, community and history. Like it or not, "transgender" has binary connotations. When most people think of trans people, they think of trans men and trans women. There are genderfluid people that find themselves uncomfortable with that. There are other nonbinary people who do too. There's also the expectation of a trans person to transition in some way - changing their wardrobe, hair, name, or pronouns for social changes, and though not all trans people do medically transition, HRT, top surgery, bottom surgery, and facial surgeries for medical changes. If a genderfluid person decides to do none of these things, or decides to just do one or a few social things, they might not feel like they relate to the trans experience enough to comfortably call themselves transgender. You can't make them. They are welcome to but it is up to them.

Isogender is one such gender modality they may identify with instead, for those who do not feel they fit into the cis/trans binary. Intended primarily for nonbinary people because of course you can't expect to sort nonbinary people into a binary. Isogender might appeal to them if they don't feel they fit into either, or relate to the cis or the trans experience.

Or maybe they'll identify as cis. If they live their everyday life as if they were a regular cis person, or if they more often than not identify with their AGAB, then they might feel more like a cis person than a trans person. And that's okay. If they feel more comfortable calling themselves cis, if they feel more like they're cis, then they're cis. Full stop. Regardless of the definition of transgender. That's what they say they are, so that's what they are.

I am bigender. I am a woman and I am aporagender. My aporinity fluctuates and my primary identity is as a woman. Seeing that I'm AFAB, I identify as an isocis aporagirl. I do not feel transgender. I am not transgender. I do not relate to transness, or the trans experience. I would not feel comfortable calling myself transgender. I'm isogender and I'm cisgender. I experience life mostly like a cisgender person, and though my aporinity is not cis, it doesn't feel trans either. It's isogender.

Quite disappointed in my mutual for reblogging this garbage as if the definition of trans invalidates people's right to self identify

"not all genderfluid people are trans" ... are you on crack?? No one's agab is genderfluid. If you don't exclusively identify with the gender assigned to you at birth you are trans. That's literally all the word means. By definition every genderfluid person is trans. Stop being stupid.

[woodlandscab1n]

The dialogue went something like this:

Leon: "Hmmm...sometimes I wonder what's i'd been if I was born a woman"

Claire, a trans woman: "🤨❓"

Leon: "Why are you staring at me like that..."

Claire: "😏❓"

Leon, flustered: "It's not like that! I'm just curious...is all...Yeah."

Claire: "😌 mmmhmmm..."

Then there was a second comic where Leon comes to her again 🤣

Leon: "okay so...maybe you're right but like, I still like to be a man so idk if that counts tho..."

Claire, staring at him dead in the eye: "have you thought about multigendered or nonbinary genders."

Leon: "what ❓"

Claire: "Yeah, like bi/pangender, genderqueer, genderfluid, maybe even demigender, your pick. :]"

Leon: "I...did...not know there were that many."

Claire: "You'd be surprised. 😌"

my greatest mistake is not double checking if I had the "leon gets his egg cracked when talking to claire" sketches saved because now it went down with my twitter and I am so sad