#matilda goth | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

herefortheships · 23 days ago

Text

On media portrayals of older women

Commentary on Lydia's characterization in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. 🕷

This post was originally a response to a post from two months ago, but it got so big (and also I kinda moved away from the topic a little), I decided to make it its own post. It's a long ramble, basically, about my feelings around how women over 30 tend to be written and how disappointing it often is, especially now that I am a woman over 30 myself.

Before I get to Lydia and my issues with how she was written in BJBJ, I just want to say something. There is a blatant unwillingness to represent an older woman who isn't a mother or, at the very least, married or divorced, and often those women who are depicted as individuals outside of these roles, tend to be either toxic or unhappy characters (Cruella De Vil totally came to mind when I just typed that 😆 But even Cruella is married in the original story). As a matter of fact, the ex-wife or divorced older woman is often depicted as a cruel, bitter, or even evil woman (Miranda Priestly form "Devil Wears Prada" came to mind. Hey, another iconic fashion industry character lol). Single older women are often also depicted as "ugly", or flat out scary characters (Miss Trunchbull in Matilda came to mind).

It's like for many screenwriters it's impossible to visualize a mature woman who isn't or hasn't been married, and is childless.

The issue is not that they are given these roles; the issue is that their character arcs often seem to revolve around these roles and their identity is very focused on being either the mom, the wife, or the ex-wife. More often than not, female characters over 30 that are good are usually moms or struggling wives, and their identity is confined or greatly centered around her role as the mother or the suffering wife. (Chances are, if she's happily married, she's either not the protagonist or the story is over 💀). And if it is not centered around these, then motherhood is something adjacent to the story in some way, shape, or form.

Using the first "Beetlejuice" movie we have an example of a happily married woman in a leading role, Barbara Maitland. She's not an older woman, per se, but she is a happily married woman in a leading role. But what is one of her main concerns as a character? She can't have children. So she does have a motherly-adjacent struggle. At least Adam accompanies her in this story thread and it isn't just a struggle Barbara alone is facing; both of them are pretty balanced as far as their struggles go in "Beetlejuice". (I could have also used Delia as an example here, but she isn't exactly the main character as Barbara was in "Beetlejuice". That said, she is both a mother and wife.)

I'm pretty new to the Beetlejuice fandom (as in I was a fan who watched the movie a few times a year around Halloween, but never actually interacted with fandom or analyzed anything, until I watched BJBJ and became totally obsessed), and as a relatively new fan who has been here since September 2024, I'm not sure what the expectations around Lydia's future were throughout the years in the fandom. But, I'm positive a lot of fans never considered Lydia would choose to get married and to a pretty regular guy at that at some point and become a mother. I'm sure many fans shared Winona's idea of older Lydia being a goth spinster, living a pretty unconventional, but happy life, just doing her thing. She might have gone into photography and kept interacting with the dead and being her goth, "strange and unusual" self.

So it must have been pretty shocking to see that older Lydia is not only a struggling mother, but she is also anxiety-ridden and in an abusive relationship with some normie guy.

Lydia at least has something that separates her identity as an individual from her identity as a mother, in her show, but it's made clear that getting into making the show was considered by her as "selling out", a sentiment that came up in her conversation with Delia. I wish they would have gone into that a little bit more, because it's not entirely clear how Lydia felt about the show exactly and what her reasons were to do it in the first place. Lydia's interest in photography from the first film, and subsequently from the animated show as well (meaning this was an inherent and very characteristic part of her), is non-existent in the sequel.

While it's understandable that "life happens" and people just change over time, and a life of seeing and interacting with all sorts of ghosts must have taken a toll on her, Lydia's characterization was considerably far from the person she used to be, and it feels like a lot of it had to do with her mother role.

I know a lot of fans also appreciate this, too, don't get me wrong; Lydia as she is now is relatable to many women's experience, but what I'm getting at is that a choice was made to write older Lydia like this, and that choice is the same treatment that's given to too many older female characters in the media. They chose to make her a struggling mother, is the point I'm trying to make.

Her character has also become more reactionary; she isn't exactly in control about anything. Even making her show appears to be a reactive decision, too, rather than something she did because she genuinely wanted to. She's even taking medications to get through the day when she starts seeing ghosts (Nadja disappears after Lydia takes the pills, so one can assume she takes these pills to quiet down her psychic abilities and stop seeing ghosts; Rory's comment in the bathroom also supports this).

Lydia is indeed, overall, unhappy, and she has been for a long time. Not saying this is a bad thing; stories need conflict, and it would have been strange if she was living her best life at the start of the film. After Charles funeral we confirm that she wasn't exactly happy when Richard was around, either ("our relationship was over long before the accident", strange thing to say to Astrid when she's questioning her about why she cannot see her father). Things seemed to have ended amicably between them, but it looks like Lydia was not happy in that relationship by its end.

Lydia only seems to take control when her daughter is in danger, so that which spurs her into action is more linked to her mother persona over any other conflict that's more directly linked to her as an individual. If it wasn't for Betelgeuse's intervention, she might have even ended up marrying Rory, who, not only did she not love, he was also using her and being emotionally manipulative and abusive.

I know Lydia at some point became affected by seeing ghosts every other day through her life, as evidenced by the pills, but (and this is something I talked about before here) the way they ended the previous film, there was nothing to indicate that Lydia was in a downward spiral or that seeing strange things and dead people affected her negatively in any strong, life-altering way (unless Lydia was pretending to like the dark stuff before, and by the end she's more herself and admits to not like the creepy stuff; she does reject dissecting the frog in her science class, but then again, she asks the Maitlands to levitate her and pretty much do a ghostly possession in the house for the "Jump in the line" scene. But I digress. Lydia's character arc in the first film is an analysis for another post).

Moving on, Lydia's brief experience with Betelgeuse in the first film also does not justify her current emotional state for the reasons stated above and in that post I linked. Losing Richard also doesn't seem to be enough of a reason to have created the emotional issues Lydia is struggling deeply with in BJBJ, and it does seem that the movie pointed at that, but it was poorly done, when Lydia told Astrid she didn't have a relationship with him long before he passed away; she also didn't have a strong reaction to seeing Richard in the afterlife.

Whatever happened to Lydia that led her to this current state wasn't properly explored, is what I'm getting at, because the film decided to focus her character struggles mostly on her relationship with her daughter, over her own personal conflicts as a separate individual. Lydia as the suffering mom, struggling to connect with her daughter was the focus of her arc. Did we ever get to know exactly why she was willing to marry Rory despite clearly not loving him? (she even seemed disgusted by him kissing her and when he tried to kiss her lol).

Was it because she thought he was her only chance at being happy again? Was it because she thought she needed to be married for Astrid, to rebuild their family? Lydia's actions were entirely steered by Rory; he emotionally manipulated her so much, he made her believe she had feelings for him and start a relationship with him, even. Maybe it was him, the one who convinced her to start the show in the first place, to take advantage of her psychic abilities (which he totally believed to be bullshit, anyway, but he thought he could use her delusions/fake claims to attract fame and money), he was her producer, after all. (Actually I think it was him who convinced her?? Was she making her show before meeting him? Lol I totally forgot this bit. Fill me in because I've only watched the movie twice.)

By the end of the film, ironically, Lydia takes more control for herself when she sends Betelgeuse away (and I say "ironically" because, without Betelgeuse she would still be stuck in the same toxic situation she was with Rory. In fact, things would have gotten much worse as Rory would have gotten away with his plan. She also had no issues handling Betelgeuse during all scenes they had together; she would even raise her voice at him and act exasperated with his behavior--that is not typically how a person who is terrified or traumatized by someone acts around them, but ok...), and she makes a choice to be more focused in her life, assuming she did quit her job, which is up for debate, depending on when the dream sequence started.

Without Betelgeuse, Lydia would be stuck in a terrible relationship, where her life would have been ruined, and she would have also lost her daughter on Halloween night when Jeremy used her to get his life back. So it's really strange a choice (and poorly executed, again) to have Lydia's character resolution be sending Betelgeuse away like she's finally confronting some deep-rooted fear or trauma, when her character really wasn't explored individually all throughout the movie to showcase in what way exactly did her brief interactions with Betelgeuse over 30 years ago might have crumbled her emotional stability to that degree. The movie isn't clear if her depression and anxiety are related to losing Richard and therefore that's what she needs to heal from; or if it's more related to her past trauma around Betelgeuse, and then, that's what she needed to heal from.

There really should have been more of a focus on her as an individual apart from her struggles as Astrid's mother for her character to really have a good payoff at the end. And truly, if facing Betelgeuse was going to "fix her", then she's back at square one when he shows up on her bed at the end. Lydia's character and story are incomplete. More reasons why we need a BJ3.

What's truly going to heal Lydia is her finding herself again, as just Lydia; not the mother or the TV presenter. And she must get there herself, not have it all fixed for her by Betelgeuse yet again or another external force. She has to make a choice for herself. They need to show her picking up her camera again, and yes, enjoying the "strange and unusual". She needs to embrace her otherness and be herself again.

(And if she doesn't want to be alone... she shouldn't go after a guy like Rory or a normie. She needs another weirdo like Richard who loved scary movies, or, ahem, Betelgeuse, who has already proved he loves her more than any normie ever could.)

I can't stress enough how disappointing it is that mature women are mostly presented as moms or wives or even grandmas, without dreams and motivations of their own that are entirely separate from their (societal) roles. Mature men can be out there living adventures and doing all sorts of things, like James Bond for example. Meanwhile women are either divorced, mothers, wives, grandmas, aunts, etc and these roles are a huge part of what defines them as characters. And if it doesn't define them, they still are moms, wives, ex-wives, or grandmas. It's rare to see a single older lady doing her thing and being just a character and like, falling in love and going through a satisfying arc that has nothing to do with having kids, or dealing with estranged kids, etc. At least Delia was out there doing her thing in BJBJ; she was doing what she loved, while still being a mother and a grandmother, and a loving wife/widow to Charles. She was a realized character. And that's what I want to see, you know? I don't mind seeing an older female character who is married with kids (and even grandkids!), as long as she is also a fully realized individual when her character arc is wrapped up at the end.

If Lydia being behind the camera instead of in front of it in BJBJ is representative of her feeling lost in life, and her being in a toxic relationship and almost saying yes to someone she doesn't love or even remotely fit in with, then healed Lydia should be behind the camera again in BJ3, and saying yes to someone she does love and fits in with by the end.

I definitely want to see a Lydia who is more than Astrid's mom in BJ3; a Lydia who isn't easily manipulated and stepped on, and who has a firm grasp on who she is and a love for who she is. Yeah, I totally want her to end up with Betelegeuse (edit: And I am writing a post about why they are perfectly matched to complete each other's character arcs), but I also want to see her fully realized outside of the mother and (potential) wife roles.

#Lydia Deetz #Beetlejuice #Beetlejuice Beetlejuice #Beetlebabes #Beetlejuice x Lydia #Beetlejuice meta #things I write #This post was in my drafts for around two months 💀#But this is still not the long post I was talking about earlier #That one will take longer to complete #text post #long post for ts

57 notes · View notes

sarcastic-positivity · 1 year ago

Note

It was the middle of July and despite Tim’s aspirations as a kid, he did not, in fact, have a job that gave him summers off. As such, it was a miserable affair, getting to and from work. Usually Tim would be in an airy t-shirt and shorts but Jon had caught sight of his Hawaiian themed top last week and it had been a close thing to avoid being forced to go home and change. It would be a few weeks before he could get away with such a ‘blatant display of disrespect for work procedures’, as Jon put it, so here he was: sweating his ass off on the tube and praying to whatever god would listen that they’d fixed the AC at the Institute.

God never did like Tim.

“Christ above, does Elias want us dead or something?” Tim cried to the room at large as he dropped heavily onto his spinny chair. It was stifling. “What did we ever do to him, huh?? Did someone submit a statement about Bigfoot again?” He immediately started popping buttons on his ‘work appropriate’ shirt.

Sasha popped her head up from her cubicle and grinned at him. Her waist-length braids had been piled sloppily on top of her head and she looked about ready to topple over from the imbalance. She’d already shed her top layer down to a simple purple tank top but she still had a sheen of sweat on her brow that had her large round glasses slipping down her nose.

“Pretty sure it’s cause Gerry called him an old codger and compared him to the statement giver from the McGregor case last week. He’s out for revenge now.”

Tim wrinkled his nose. “What, the stuffy one with the cane who wouldn’t shut up about how the Tories are implementing a surveillance state?”

“The very same,” Sash confirmed, pushing her glasses back up with a hand. “Though I personally think Elias would be very pro Big Brother. Did I tell you he asked after my aunt the other week?”

“You told Elias about Matilda’s lung cancer?”

“That’s just it! The only person I told about that was you, and I’m pretty sure you didn’t run off to tattle to Elias.” She leaned forward in her chair conspiratorial and Tim couldn’t help but do the same. Sash was magnetic when she was like this. It had led to more than one rendezvous in their first year at the Institute. “I think he has cameras down here.”

It wasn’t the most insane theory she’d come up with, somehow. Just two months ago she’d followed Jon home because she didn’t believe he actually had a home; she’d thought he’d been sleeping in the Institute of all places. Besides, there was that feeling of being watched that pervaded this place. Still, Tim couldn’t help but laugh.

“I think we’d know if he had cameras, Sash. Did I tell you what he-”

“What fresh hell is this?” The voice from the doorway was flat and scathing and Tim immediately spun in his chair to grin at the intruder.

“Gerry!” He called happily. “I didn’t know you were coming in today!” He was wearing his signature black trenchcoat and a scowl that did things to Tim. Luckily for both of them, Tim was well guarded against Gerry’s scary-sexy goth vibe by virtue of sharing a flat with him. There were only so many times you could get a chub from simply looking at your roommate before your prick just gave up on the enterprise entirely.

“There’s a statement I need but this is fucking ridiculous.” His voice was as deep and rough as it always was but the angry edge to it managed to send a little zing down Tim’s spine. The days that Gerry showed up at work are always so interesting. “It’s at least 10 degrees hotter in here than it is outside. The fuck is Elias thinking?”

“Gonna rough him up for us, Ger?” Tim asked with a grin and Sasha laughed. “Stomp on him a little with those boots of yours? 10 quid says he’s into it.” Gerard shot him a look but there was a smile playing around his lips, pulling slightly at the snakebite piercings there. His makeup that day was the same as it usually was, eyeliner and three exaggerated lower lashes that made his gaze all the more intense. Thank god for the aforementioned Roommate Protection. Especially when Gerry’s eyes swept over Tim before meeting his eyes again and giving a mocking little smile. His eyes were slate grey and impossible to look away from.

“Projecting much, Stoker?” He asked in a low tone. It was teasing and Sasha cackled but Tim’s brain stuttered and properly died. What did one say when a hot goth implied that you maybe wanted him to stomp on you with his giant sexy boots? Especially when it was true.

“What, you wanna find out, Keay?” Tim shot back. That was good. Keep it light, let it plausibly pass for playful workplace banter – a little bit of light flirting to keep thoughts of the heat at bay. Gerry arched a brow at him, face betraying nothing but that same cool amusement. Sasha snorted and shook her head, turning back to her computer.

“You two are ridiculous,” she told them. Tim shrugged, eyes still on Gerry, and then Jon’s office door creaked open.

“Oh good, you’re here, Gerard.” Gerry’s eyes flicked away. “You said you needed the Anderson file?”

“Yeah, that’s the one,” Gerry said. He passed by Tim’s desk to take the file from Jon. Tim turned back to his desk. “By the way, your workplace is a HSE violation waiting to happen.”

“Yes, I am quite aware,” Jon said drily. “Make sure to get that one back to me by the end of the day. And not stinking of smoke this time, Gerard. I have more notes I plan to add to it.”

“No promises.”

・・・

Inevitably, it was Tim who had to go hunt Gerry down at a quarter to five to get the file back. Luckily the fire exit to the left of the stairs to the archives was conspicuously propped open by an unopened carton of cigarettes and Tim pushed outside into the slightly cooler summer air.

Gerard was lounged on the steps leading to the back alley, facing away from the door with the file open at his feet and a lit cigarette in hand. He’d tied his hair up sloppily, much like Sasha had hers, but it was so long that black sheets of it still cascaded down his bare shoulders. His trenchcoat had been completely abandoned, laid out on the step beside him, and he was left only in a crop top Tim had never seen before. It was made of a sheer grey material that matched his eyes and had no sleeves to speak of. Even worse, Gerry had a hand tucked under his shirt, shucking the top halfway up his chest. His alabaster skin shone in the dim light of the setting sun and Tim nearly took a tumble down the steps when Gerry tilted his head back to look back at him.

“What?” Gerry asked in a gravelly voice when he caught Tim staring. Tim opened his mouth to respond but he suddenly found himself incapable of speech. Gerry rolled his eyes and turned his head languidly back forward, lifting his cigarette to his lips. “AC’s broken inside but it’s barely any cooler out here. Don’t be a prude.”

That surprised a laugh out of Tim. “A- A prude?!” He choked out. Never in his life had he been accused of such a thing. And this, this was so far on the opposite side of the scale he wanted to laugh. Or cry. Gerry just blew a smoke ring.

“If you’re here for the file, it’s there.” He kicked at the manila folder at his feet and Tim could hear the wounded noise Jon would make if he were there. Right, Tim had actually come for a reason that wasn’t to ogle Gerry. Supposedly.

“Right.” Tim cleared his throat and picked his way down the steps so as to not step on Gerry. God, did his legs have to be so long? “This thing has gotta reek by now,” he said as he bent down for the file. “Pretty sure the boss man won’t be too happy with you about that one.” He turned back and around and Gerry quickly lifted his eyes. His eyes were a warm hazy grey, much like the smoke drifting around his head.

“Afraid of Sims then, are you?” He drawled. His piercings glinted as he grinned at Tim.

Tim rolled his eyes and made his way back up the steps. He very pointedly kept his gaze on the ground as he did so, enticingly bare torso be damned. “Everything’s a question with you,” he said. “‘Projecting much? Afraid of Sims?’ Just call me a bottom and get on with it.”

Gerry rasped out a chuckle right as Tim reached the top step. Tim hesitated but couldn’t help but glance back down behind him. Gerry’s head was tilted back, hair messy and top askew, and his eyes half lidded against the dying light behind Tim’s head.

“Now where’s the fun in that?”

He was sight to see, all stretched out and half clothed on the steps to the alley. Tim shook his head and turned back inside without another word. Gerry’s rapsing laugh followed him all the way into the archives.

Damn tease.

SPEECHLESS. SCREAMING CRYING THROWING UP. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I NEEDED AND MORE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE HOLY SHIT IM LOSING MY MIND

62 notes · View notes