#marika shut up

[drenched-in-sunlight]

Yesterday for the first time I saw a post in a public forum that actually points out Marika has every reason to be so cold & distant towards Maliketh... thanks God.

The Two Fingers/ EIden Beast stood aside & let her entire family die, then when it successfully entrapped her in a literal divine prison it said “here we gave you a brother lol” like istg WHAT are you even saying. Her entire real family is already in a ditch !!! No prayers to the Gods help them! And now these Godlike beings are like take this random guy as your bro???

It’s confirmed in the base game Shadowbeast is like sleeper agent that the Two Fingers put there to monitor their Empyrean & off them if they try to rebel, no matter how earnest the Shadowbeast sounds. Ranni and Blaid literally grew up together & we still have to get rid of him at the end of her questline 💀 Marika was a young woman who had lost everything then forced to recognize some stranger as family. To her that must be some fucked up joke.

And get this, I do believe Maliketh and Blaidd care for Marika & Ranni genuinely, it’s a tragedy that they were born to bring “nothing but bale” to the person they love. Just like how Messmer, the beloved son in the Shadow, also became a curse to the person he loves the most in the end. That’s the doomed narrative they are trying to portray.

[kenanas]

I am NOT finishing any of these !!!!

[maranull]

ALSO THAT STATUE OF MARIKA HOLDING MESSMER AS A BABY HELLO?????

WAS I NOT RIGHT WHEN I WAS SAYING THAT SHE LOVES HER KIDS?????

I WAS.

[willowthewiisp]

Really wanna point out there are actually living jars in the same gaol as the saints jars. Implying it's an evolution and the main goal of saints jars to turn them into living jars. Their lore implies the living jars are peaceful and nice and want to be better than their innards once were, because the saints jars were for sinners and thieves and the criminals of society to the hornsent. But also this proves that not only were living jars and the jarring practices of the erdtree not from the golden order and were indeed originally from the hornsent, Marika not only didn't help her people recover she also allowed the practice to continue on in some way shape or form, since we find these pots everywhere in the lands between especially around minor erdtrees because they get nourishment from the life forces of bodies.

[ilsrywaves]

how elden ring would feel if everyone was alive and they all had a great time together

[delsinsfire]

drawing hair is therapy to me

[barbieb0y]

IS THIS WHY THIS GAME IS RATED 18+???????

[sadlazzle]

ive dedicated myself to beating malenia before i go to radagon/elden beast. maybe placidusax too but he’s getting on my nerves tbh so we’ll see how it goes

[blasphemousclaw]

Do you have any ideas on the Messmer / Fell God and Melina / Gloam-Eyed Queen links? Are these Demigods sort of reincarnations of those guys? Or their curses? Or sort of karmic comeback for Marika killing both? Or maybe one thing for one and another for the second one?

(I lean towards the third option *voice of a guy who can't shut up about Marika wanting her and her Erdtree to live forever and discovering she could not deceive fate after all*)

OHHH BOY was this a difficult and confusing topic… there are just SO many unexplained parts of Melina and Messmer’s lore that I feel like I still can’t make sense of how everything fits together, but I did come up with some connections that felt really compelling to me, and I think I agree with you on the third option!

starting with Melina, I’ve decided that I don’t think she’s the Gloam-Eyed Queen or an aspect of her, but rather that she and the GEQ are similar because they both have their own separate connections to Destined Death…

so the first thing I did was go through literally everything we know about her — Melina tells us that she was “born at the foot of the Erdtree,” and that her mother (Marika) gave her her “purpose,” which is the reason she lives, “burned and bodiless.” She finds out later that her purpose serves to aid in passing the thorns blocking the entrance to the Erdtree… basically, the purpose given to her by Marika is to burn the Erdtree!

Then, there’s the link between igniting the Giant’s Flame and seeking Destined Death…

“The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death.” (Melina’s dialogue in her final cutscene; also in the Blade of Calling description)

“Flame” in this situation is represented by Melina — the kindling — and after the Giant’s Flame ignites, we’re transported to Farum Azula to confront Destined Death. Which means that Melina’s purpose as kindling is in some way intrinsically linked to Destined Death? don’t ask me how

Destined Death is also a part of Melina’s being: its power is sealed behind her eye, marked with a symbol that looks like a beast claw:

and if you do the Frenzied Flame ending, then the seal on Melina’s eye will fade and her eye will open, revealing a violet iris:

I think that Melina’s Destined Death eyeball was sealed with a beast claw symbol because Maliketh was the sole keeper of the Rune of Death; only he and those loyal to him can use its power… and Melina is certainly not someone Maliketh or the Two Fingers would trust with Destined Death. And, the reason why the claw symbol fades and Melina’s violet eye opens in the FF ending is because it’s the only ending where she’s still alive after Maliketh is killed and Destined Death is unbound.

I still can’t say for sure why Melina has an inherent ability to wield Destined Death, but my best guess is that it’s tied to her purpose being a sort of “hard reset” on the Golden Order… burning the Erdtree and unbinding Destined Death. I get the sense that Melina is very much like, “engineered” by Marika in order to fulfill her specific purpose… I think the fact that she’s even guiding us in the first place was Marika’s plan, because Marika also makes Hewg forge us a god-slaying weapon; she WANTS us to get inside the Erdtree and beat up the Elden Beastie! Melina even has some dialogue where she acknowledges that she’s following her mother’s plans, but she’s not just following them out of obligation, she really does believe in what she’s doing for her own reasons:

“There is something I'd like to say. My purpose was given to me by my mother. But now, I act of my own volition. I have set my heart upon the world that I would have. Regardless of my mother's designs. I won't allow anyone to speak ill of that. Not even you.”

“I have long observed the Lands Between. This world is in dire need of repair... and Death...indiscriminate... Are you prepared... To commit a cardinal sin?”

back to Destined Death… I think there’s some connection between violet eyes and wielders of Destined Death, because in addition to Melina, obviously the Gloam-Eyed Queen had purple eyes, but so do Maliketh and Blaidd:

Maliketh is the keeper of Destined Death, but Blaidd also wields Destined Death as a “Baleful Shadow” manifested by the Two Fingers!

if this link between purple eyes and Destined Death is intentional, then the fact that Melina has this in common with Maliketh and Blaidd as well as with the GEQ makes it less likely to me that Melina is literally the GEQ, and more likely that this is just a trait they all share. Overall, I just got the sense that Melina was so strongly tied to Marika and her plans and has enough of a unique identity that I don’t think it adds all that much for her to ALSO have been the GEQ who was killed and brought back? but that’s just my opinion!

Now all that was confusing enough, but then I got to MESSMER… man… I am still so deeply confused about how Messmer’s fire and the Base Serpent interact (and what the Base Serpent even IS, for that matter). The “fire” and “serpent” concepts combine within Messmer, which makes his fire magic behave in a serpentine way, which made me think, well, does that mean that the Base Serpent and Messmer’s flame are part of the same curse? but then I decided that no, they have to be separate concepts within Messmer’s body, because the Base Serpent is “shorn of light,” and fire famously gives off light. who knew! Also, the serpent is said to be “eating away” at Messmer’s kindling… which makes it seem like maybe Messmer’s vision of fire is the reason why the Base Serpent targets him in the first place? because it’s a thing of darkness that eats light? maybe?

“The kindling that burned inside Messmer the Impaler. A dark thing, eaten away at by a wicked serpent. Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins.” (Messmer’s Kindling)

Messmer’s kindling burns the sealing tree, and it can’t burn the Erdtree. I think that the sealing tree, and the thorns entrapping Enir-Ilim, are supposed to be like, manifested from the Scadutree:

“The caster wounds their own flesh using impenetrable thorns grown from the Scadutree, which then sprout from the earth.” (Impenetrable Thorns)

The Scadutree is able to manifest shadowy, impenetrable thorns, so I think it’s fair to assume that the ones sealing Enir-Ilim are tied to the Scadutree. Essentially that means that Messmer’s kindling can burn the Scadutree, or at least some aspect of the Scadutree… which would make sense, because his sister Melina is kindling for the Erdtree, and the Scadutree is the Erdtree’s “shadow.”

“Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire.” (Messmer’s Kindling)

the description specifically compares Messmer’s kindling to Melina’s, so I think we are supposed to see them as kind of a duality! We have the Erdtree, golden, symbolic of Order, and then we have its shadow, the twisted Scadutree:

“The Scadutree is the shadow of the Erdtree. Born of dark notions that bear no sense of Order, that twist and bend its stalk, rendering it brittle.” (Remembrance of the Shadow Sunflower)

it almost seems like each sibling reflects the tree their kindling burns… Melina being gold, Order, light, and grace, with a purpose given to her by Marika herself; Messmer being graceless, choked of light, a twisted thing that bears no sense of Order, someone burdened by his curses who Marika tried to save, but ultimately couldn’t.

(my son who has every disease)

Now to come back to your original question yes I know none of that even answered it I would say the Scadutree is kind of characterized as the inevitable “consequence” of the Erdtree:

“Miquella the Kind spoke of the beginning. The seduction. And the betrayal. An affair from which Gold arose. And so too was Shadow born.” (DLC story trailer)

“Incantation originating from Scadutree avatars. Creates a hail of golden projectiles which are fired toward foes after a brief delay. This incantation channels the force of the Scadutree's power, and its gold is accompanied by shadow.” (Land of Shadow)

I kind of see the Scadutree as being representative of what falls outside of Marika’s Golden Order, the lands and people that don’t get to bask within the Erdtree’s golden light… like in the Shadow Lands, you’ve got the Crucible, the hornsent, and “all manner of death” washing up on the shores, “only to be suppressed” (the Golden Order famously being without Destined Death)… it’s like all the dregs of the Golden Order exist here. no wonder Messmer’s soldiers feel abandoned the longer they spend in this place without word from Marika:

“Sorcery of those who abandoned the practice of incantations after devout faith rewarded them with only despair. […] The image of the twisted Scadutree is an edict: Denounce their ways. Do them harm. For they have abandoned us.” (Impenetrable Thorns)

Basically, I think if something in Messmer’s being is meant to reflect the Scadutree, all this characterization of the Scadutree points to Messmer’s curses as being something karmic that Marika manifested, like you said… maybe Marika’s creation of the Scadutree and all it represents was “the original sin,” and Messmer is the one who suffers for it??

Finally, I think this is where the Fell God could come in… Melina can kindle the Giant’s Flame in order to burn the Erdtree… Messmer is also kindling… his flame could originate from the Fell God because the trait of red hair is explicitly linked to the Fell God. (why doesn’t Melina have red hair then?? don’t ask me why) Maybe their kindling abilities both originate from the Fell God, but Messmer’s was forced upon him as a curse, and Melina’s was Marika later using that same power for a purpose? Marika originally intended to kill the Fell God, but discovered she couldn’t:

“Tricksome shield made from white stone depicting a malformed one-eyed god. The barrel of a firearm pokes through the open mouth. Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.” (One-eyed Shield)

“The Fire Giant is a survivor of the War against the Giants. Upon realizing the flames of their forge would never die, Queen Marika marked him with a curse. "O trifling giant, mayest thou tend thy flame for eternity."” (Remembrance of the Fire Giant)

Presumably, Marika was afraid of the Giant’s Flame’s ability to burn the Erdtree, so she tried to suppress it! But maybe, as a result, what she suppressed ended up manifesting inside her own son! With Melina, I guess she had a change of heart later on, and realized that burning the Erdtree could be a good thing??? did she know she would be imprisoned inside the Erdtree by the Greater Will??? was Melina meant to be some kind of failsafe??? DON’T ASK ME I DON’T KNOW

IN CONCLUSION… I don’t think Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen. I think she and Messmer are meant to reflect the Erdtree and Scadutree respectively, with the Erdtree being Gold/Order, and the Scadutree being Shadow/Disorder, a “consequence” of the Erdtree’s creation that exists outside of its grace. Melina and Messmer both inherited a “vision of fire,” perhaps from the Fell God… but Messmer’s flame could have been a result of that “consequence” of Marika’s actions, and Melina’s flame is something that Marika makes use of in the future! Messmer tried to reject his flame and it made him suffer, but Melina is at peace with her flame and accepts it. I wonder if this is representative of Marika’s early years of suppressing aspects of life and death (the Fell God of fire being one of those aspects, maybe?), but coming to accept change later on, helping us become Elden Lord in a world that has natural death again?

Is any of this like, verifiably true? absolutely not… with these two, I don’t think you CAN make any solid conclusions since there’s so much about them that just isn’t explained… I’m just trying to pull together disparate strings of lore into something that makes some kind of thematic sense lol

this became about WAY more than your initial question… SORRY

[zafulz]

Regarding SotE's ending.

Spoilers ahead, rant.

I'm a dissappointed on the fandom always wanting to take sides for the most nuanced narratives ever written in games, sometimes it feels like we play different games at all. They want to excuse other demigods and put the blame on the ones who wanted to changed the status quo, when we all should realize how the Greater Will and the Outer Gods had influence and have been the ones to actually be playing chess with their tragic fates. Radahn and Morgott wanted to keep and perpetuate Marika's / Golden Order rule, Miquella, Ranni and Rykard wanted to get rid of all the Gods (using the Stars/Moon, destroying gods or becoming God themselves), and Mogh, Malenia and Godwyn had their fates taken by Outer Gods/Plots. They were all played and incited by the horrors of Marika, under the Greater Will. Remember that Marika shattered the Elden Ring to rebel against the Greater Will due to all the grief and most recently Godwyn's death, so we can guess she realized too late.

Then, it surprises me how easy we are to label Miquella as a villain without taking all that into the equation. The game changers, following up Ranni's statements, were only Miquella, Malenia (as she was almost ready to become a goddess even before Miquella), and her. Ranni, probably the one who knew all of Marika's record and was already done with the situation of her family and the Lands Between, started this first with killing Godwyn. Miquella just could not keep at delaying the facts during the time he tried to revive his brother and revert his twin curse, leading to despising the Greater Will and deciding to ascend having learned the horrors of the Lands of Shadow and the current state of the Lands Between. The actions taken by them can't be honestly judged at certain human moral standpoint, since we are talking of literal demigods, SOME of them supporting the current status quote where Omens, Demi Humans, Albinaurics, Giants where OBLITERATED to keep the Golden Order's rule. The DLC covers the process in which Miquella decided to walk the same path as Marika, probably for similar "better world" goals, but Marika just followed the Greater Will. Miquella decided to become a god and strip himself from all essence, without any guidance. Is not a mending rune to keep the Elden Ring somehow. The story trailer show us how Marika called the Greater Will, now dried up after thousands of sacrifices, Miquella becomes a God by stripping himself of what attaches him to the world (reminds me of Tales of Symphonia, where Colette is loosing all senses to become an angel or the Avatar State) St. Trina asks us to kill him, because she understood this path will only create another Greater Will-like God, no feelings, just cold stare and control, a caged god.

Now, somethings that aren't clear is how the affection compelling powers works. Miquella shattered his own rune knowing this would remove his "charm" from others. Why he did that? What's the vow Radahn and Miquella made? The cutscene crystal clear shows Miquella is afraid of becoming a god, but taking that decision on this vow.

Probably a fight with Malenia before becoming Lord. Whispered this part on his ear like normal.

A LOT of information is missing, but the point was that there are no " villains" in this game, BUT THE GODS. It is a Man vs God narrative that is very nuanced. Thanks for your time.

Ps. Did you notice this?

Grace and the Gods influence reflect in the eyes. Messmer is final proof of it when he breaks his Grace and Serpent appears isntead, or Miquella showing up with eyes shut, becoming a God himself. Ranni Melina I wish we could have more dialog options and reactions from what we did in this DLC :')

[miquellah]

…..hornsent and the greater potentate both had gold eyes. they were graced….. shut up about potentate!hornsentnpc for a second. shush. shush. listen to me

grace is bestowed to Her People… post-her godhood transformation anyway. people under her rule, minus the blue of the carians i think. anyway

marika made her citizens immortal, so unless theyre outright killed, they dont die. and when they die, they just get reincarnated. this is the justification for a lot of the enemy respawning, yeah? and this is also present within the lands of shadow, yeah? i guess that place could essentially be a time capsule, sure, but otherwise. isnt it weird that all of those people there haven’t DIED died yet

also we, as tarnished, and all of her citizens are known as “marika’s progeny”, presumably noting that we come from her lineage in some form or way or distance. and even if not literal in that description— where the fuck did all of the citizens in the land between COME from? her entire village was decimated!! so many other villages lost to the saint jars!

anyway here’s my totally crackpot theory: the hornsent were REINCARNATED into becoming her citizens, lost of their original markers. its fucking. eugenics. that’s how she got her people, with only a very specific and direct subset of progeny becoming true demigods. and this is also WHY omens are born among her new people— it’s the law of regression at work !!!

this is also why it took marika so long to actually start exacting her revenge, she needed to build her own ranks. its why the hornsent said she betrayed them, having graced them in the first place. it is a TRANSFORMATION of the hornsent into something else. and also, my god, its a direct parallel of real-world eugenics and genocide

[catscraftsandcommentary]

I need Lambert/Milena in a Shrek AU.

Just imagine with me:

Duke de Roggeven insults a powerful wizard (we all know he would - he'd be lucky if it was only ONE) who then curses his daughters. All three of them.

(ETA: he pissed off Yennefer. Probably insulted her mixed elven heritage and/or her inability to have kids, so she went "alright. Let's see how you feel when YOUR daughters are inhuman and infertile monsters.")

By night, each of them transforms into a different non-human humanoid: Marta is a succubus (all her lust for power and a crown turned into a different kind of lust - and we'll pretend that succubi *can* live without sex, but they feel sick and hungry the whole time), Marika is an elf (still elegant and pretty, but inhuman enough to shock everyone - Marika didn't piss off Yennefer), and Milena is a witcher (Yennefer saw her strength and kindness and went "this suits you.")

Marta, of course, spends the entire time being FURIOUS at being some "sex obsessed half goat! I am the daughter of a DUKE! The ELDEST DAUGHTER! How dare she!" Marika isn't happy, per se, but she privately goes "it could be a LOT worse. I'll take it." Milena actually enjoys her new abilities - she's so strong! Her senses are much sharper! - and the eyes are rather pretty.

After being COMPLETELY HORRIFIED that his daughters (well, mostly Marta) are cursed to become non-humans by night, Duke de Roggeven locks them in a castle guarded by a dragon and then pretends that he's sent them abroad to stay with distant relatives.

Meanwhile, Marta is getting on EVERYONE'S last nerve with her constant bitching, Marika is trying to keep their lifestyle as pleasant as possible, and Milena...

Milena befriends the dragon. She thinks Villentretenmerth is fascinating, and when she learns that the three ladies who showed up to help the sisters are also dragons, she wants to learn as much as they can teach her.

(Marta refuses to acknowledge any of them. "I will not consort with beasts," she sniffs hautily, and locks herself in a private bedroom every night before sunset.)

So! Back in Redania, Duke de Roggeven has convinced everyone that Yennefer's line about "whoever breaks the curse will gain a treasure greater than gold or gems" means that they can gain literal treasure (and/or magical treasure) by rescuing and marrying his daughters, and not - to take an example COMPLETELY at random - their true love as a bride.

(Yes, true love is the cure. Of course it is.)

So the asshole king of Kaedwen hears about the supposed princess and holds a huge tournament - and Lambert shows up because "that fucker dumped a bunch of refugees in our mountains, the fucking bastard. Who does that?!"

Jaskier, being one of the refugees - and also a bard who can sense the potential for a good story - insists on coming with him. They 100% do the "Donkey won't stop singing until Shrek snaps at him to shut up - and then he hums" scene.

About five times.

(Geralt and Eskel either stayed home to help Vesemir manage the refugees or hang around the Kaedweni court to remind the king of his promise - and make sure he doesn't get any even WORSE ideas.)

(Lambert REFUSED to stay in Kaer Morhen when Vesemir was being bossy - "I get enough of him riding my damn ass during fucking winter, NO GODSDAMNED WAY." And his brothers very sensibly refused to let him stay in court longer than absolutely necessary because, uh, they've MET Lambert and they know exactly how badly it would go. So he gets rescue duty by default. At least the princess will be happy to get to Ard Carraigh and away from him. They send Jaskier with him to try to temper some of his, uh, Lambert-ness.)

Anyway! Lambert and Jaskier arrive at the tumbledown castle guarded by a dragon, and Jaskier is immediately like "oh how wonderful! How majestic! Look at that wingspan!" And Lambert is like "...remember how we're here to fight the bastard? We have to GET PAST HIM to rescue whatever noble bint got stuck out here."

Jaskier pouts.

Villentretenmerth finds all this terribly amusing, especially since he recognizes a witcher when he sees one. So he sticks his nose in their camp and asks (rumbles) "what makes you think that even a witcher can defeat the greatest and oldest of dragonkind?"

So Jaskier introduces them - as dramatically and fancily as possible - and states that they are here to rescue the princess.

Milena creeps out from Villentretenmerth's wing. "We are the daughters of the Duke de Roggeven, and there are three of us. I hope you will still take us home?"

Villentretenmerth sighs. This girl. Always getting underfoot. "I will let you take the ladies with you - but you must convince them to leave freely. If they refuse - now or later - I will take them back."

"He sent THREE girls to some remote fucking castle? Fucker. Yeah, I'll take you all. Jask, let's find 'em and get out of here."

So Milena leads them up to the tallest tower where her sisters spend their day. I can't decide if I want Marta to do the whole "sleeping beauty waiting for a kiss" thing (assuming that JASKIER is her princely rescuer and Lambert is just there as a guard.) If she does, she'll get a rude surprise when Lambert shakes her awake and tells her to pack anything she's taking with her, they're LEAVING.

So the guys get the ladies and lead them out - pretending to ignore the hissing and squabbling that said ladies are doing behind the men's backs - and are unhappily surprised AGAIN because not only are their rescuer(s) NOT a prince and his retinue, they don't even have HORSES.

The dragons, of course, are watching this with amusement...and no little relief at getting rid of Miss Complainer the Eldest.

I'm gonna say it takes less than two days for Marta and Lambert to have a truly nasty fight. She wants a horse. A private carriage, really, but she'll SETTLE for a horse. Purebred, obviously. And fashionable new dresses, and BATHS, and food cooked in an actual KITCHEN, and a private bedroom from sundown to sunrise, and...

Lambert is just like "look lady, I don't get any reward until I deliver you, I don't have the coin for any of that, and I wouldn't waste on stupid fucking luxuries if I did."

This does not go over well. At all. There are very angry words shouted about his lack of preparation, decorum, breeding, proper dress...the list is endless.

Lambert gives exactly zero shits.

Milena is watching the fight with interest - she finds him FASCINATING - and Marika is mostly trying to stay out of it. She agrees with Marta on most of the points - their tower-castle was reasonably comfortable, certainly more so than this long hike back to civilization - but also, freedom.

If only they were returning home instead of to a strange country...

Which is about when Villentretenmerth - as the human Borsch - walks into their camp, accompanied by the three dragon woman who have been tending to the sisters. "Marchionesses. Wolf. Bard. I warned you I would take the ladies back if they wished to leave your company."

"The TOWER is better than staying with this BARBARIAN," Marta sniffs. "And Father arranged for marriages for Marika and I already!"

(She knows she gets the crown prince - and she knows that Kaedwen's king is a murderous asshole. Being queen doesn't count if she's not alive to enjoy it...and she won't have allies there to help her plot regicide. She's ambitious, not stupid.)

Somehow, it works out that Borsch and his friends take Marta and Marika back while Lambert and Jaskier continue to Kaedwen with Milena. There is ABSOLUTELY a scene where Lambert is out hunting when bandits try to attack the supposedly unguarded noblewoman and bard, and Milena thoroughly kicks their ass.

Lambert runs back just in time to be HELLA aroused impressed at Milena. Jaskier is already composing an ode to her.

They arrive at Ard Carraigh. Stuck up knights send for the king, who pretends he's a decent person long enough to carry Milena off on a fancy horse. Half an hour later, just as Lambert is moping about losing his new friend, his brothers arrive and go "quick, where's the lady? We have to get out her out of here!"

A very confusing but short explanation-argument later, Eskel and Geralt are chasing after Lambert as he storms the royal palace BY HIMSELF, because like hell will he leave Milena to that monster!

The confrontation is absolutely the most dramatic thing Ard Carraigh has seen in decades, with the witchers storming in just after Milena is crowned but before she can kiss her new husband...

...whom Lambert immediately punches in the face. "HOW MANY WOMEN HAVE YOU KILLED?!? HOW MANY, ASSHOLE? Did you even bother to COUNT THEM?"

Everyone gasps. Eskel and Geralt keep the guards back with drawn swords.

"NO MORE! I *WILL NOT* let you murder Milena for your sick fucking games!"

The king tries to splutter something, but Lambert takes his head off before he can get it out.

And then the sun sets.

And Milena...changes.

Scars from her training with the dragons, greater muscles than any noblewoman should have, and her eyes...

She shrieks - not at the king's death or the witchers' violence, but at her own secret coming out. She's hidden it for so long, and so carefully...she'll never survive this. The Kaedweni court will turn her out, if they don't execute her with her (very briefly) husband -

And then Lambert takes her hand.

"Milena? Are you...okay? Did they hurt you? What happened?"

"I'm CURSED! My sisters and I are cursed - for years now!"

He looks at her. "Y'look fine to me. It suits you."

"Really?"

"I wouldn't lie to you. Never have, never will. And I think you look - good. Really good. The dress is kinda silly - "

Milena giggles. She thought the same thing, when her maids were lacing and buttoning her into the massive thing.

"But YOU are gorgeous. Always have been."

"You still like me? Even..."

"As mutated and scarred up as I am? I'd have to be a fool not to. You're the bravest, strongest, most amazing woman I've ever met."

And she kisses him. She has to, can't hold it back.

(Cue the curse breaking - and leaving her as a witcher.)

Obviously there's cleanup, but Milena IS the queen, and is suddenly betrothed to the man who killed the murderous previous king - so it works out.

And then Villentretenmerth comes back.

[willowthewiisp]

I just can't fucking shut up about this because everyone else is pissing me off calling Marika an unu poor baby she was justified bs as if genocide against any race is justified if they hurt you first. Look at real world examples.

Anyways.

Godfrey was banished not because he conquered all that could be conquered but because he fundamentally disagreed with Marika. I'm convinced she asked him to carry out the genocide against the hornsent society but because they hadn't attacked or given any reason to be attacked ( because the genocide came AFTER the banishment because messmer knows what a tarnished is AND was an older brother figure to radahn.) Godfrey refused because he's just a Chad like that and Marika stripped him of his grace and sent him on his way and instead gave messmer the grace and blessings to go crusade against the ones she needed to be rid of.

Why were the hornsent not exterminated the second Marika became a god.

Why did she run from the lands of shadow and not stay to save her people.

Because she ran.

She ran away because she had connections to the hornsent as an empyrean. The only reason she genocided them so late in her rule was because the hornsent did not submit to her religion and ideals of the golden order they were graceless and heretics to her, who spat in the face of her erdtree and worshipped the concept of the crucible. Why would she need to hide this war if it was for a good reason. I mean, if she used they oppressed my people and are a threat to the golden order why would she need to hide that, seems like as good of a reason as any to attack someone.

Because there was no good reason.

It's clear the hornsent weren't a warring culture by the time of the crusades if the dancing lion is any hint (that's not to say they weren't in the past, they had to have come to power somehow but as of the genocide the lion dancers were just that, dancers, that basically became guardians and fought during the genocide). They were caught off guard they were surprised and betrayed by Marika who they didn't have any bad blood with personally. If Marika truly was driven by revenge and hate over the shamans why didn't she slaughter them as soon as she became a god. Because she left them on neutral terms. She wasn't their enemy and they had no reason to attack her. What happened at the divine tower was the original sin. That's why messmer shrouded it so no one would know what Marika did to become a god. Massive sacrifice of hornsent AND shamans were needed. I'm almost tempted to say the hornsent got the idea to use shamans in their saint jars because of Marika. They saw this numen, this shaman, ascend into godhood. Marika used the blood of shamans, the flesh of shamans to become a god. They tried to replicate it in the jars, turning criminals and sinners into something that could become more. Maybe the shamans willingly sacrificed themselves for Marikas ascension. I would believe that. But the hornsent saw this and their zealotry drove them to hunt the shamans, so they could recreate what they witnessed at the divine tower. We see something similar in nokron. The nox attempted to birth their own lord to usher in an age of stars.

Marika returning to her village long after the shamans were gone REEKS of guilt. Because she didn't save them. She didn't avenge them. She left them to suffer and die. That's why she's fucking guilty. Messmer was the only one that seemed to care about them, and even then there was nothing to be done. Even IF the hornsent tortured and harvested her people and hurt Marika personally, that doesn't change the fact Marika waited until Godfrey was gone and radahn and messmer were old enough to be brothers to each other (almost implying it happened when Marika and radagon married but that's a stretch) to attack them. She waited an age and a half. Through her age of plenty and into the age of order. Why.

Why did she forsake her people. No wonder the black knife assassins did what they did. If they truly were close to Marika, they'd want revenge for what she did to their people in the lands of shadow.

Anyways.

[wxnheart]

𝐅*𝐜𝐤 𝐀𝐫𝐨𝐮𝐧𝐝 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐅𝐢𝐧𝐝 𝐎𝐮𝐭, 𝐄𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐧 𝐑𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐄𝐝𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧

Morgott - This is really the gist of your dynamic. You've fucked around so many times that Morgott was bound to snap. And snap he did. Time to find out, Tarnished. Next thing you know, you found yourself on the ground, looking up at the Omen's enraged face. And his angry, leaking dick. Oh. Oh. Need a little help there, Morgott? Guess he did, what with the way you're practically loving on it.

Mohg - You thought you were cute trying to fuck around but Mohg showed you he was cuter by making you find out. Too bad it comes with a side of orgasm denial and making you ride him ceaselessly as he reclines on his throne. Hah. Thought you did something there, didn't you?

Godrick - Fuck you, Godrick, okay? Just... fuck you. You don't know who's worse, you or him, but what you do know is that you tried him one too many times to the point that his multiple arms and hands practically rip your clothes off you and make you scream and beg for more. Bonus points for Godrick making you suck on two of his fingers to 'shut you up'. Not for long, you spineless bastard.

Godfrey - Um... lmao. Why would you even try him, love? He's a grappler at his core and you don't even try to wrestle yourself out of his grip. Your entire being goes slack when feel the telltale signs of his arousal press against you and by the Erdtree. No wonder Marika liked him so much...

Radahn - Well, you don't even finish fucking around before he has you suspended in the air, his tongue and fingers doing stuff to your body that you never thought possible. He told you he'd have you screaming his name. Don't know why you didn't believe him.

Radagon - He's soft-spoken as always. But there's an edge to his voice that makes you shudder, doubly so as he thrusts into you brutally. Ferally. The walls of your bedchamber reverberate with the sounds of his name. And all who has ears to hear knows Radagon has claimed his prize.

Varré - Varré is an ass so why not bother him? And so you do. And his response is to... not fuck you. Because that's what you weren't expecting. And so it turns into a game of cat-and-mouse and you're more than 1000% sure you two are going to hatefuck in the near near NEAR future.

Patches - In this scenario, it's the reverse. He fucks around because he wants to find out. He wants YOU to fuck HIM. He's glad you got the hint (finally) but did your epiphany have to happen while you're fucking him silly?

Godwyn - He's an adorable golden retriever that you never really took seriously until he fucking snapped. You didn't think the man was capable of fucking you senseless, did you? You were very pleased. And very satisfied. You also reveled in the love bites he blessed you with. And poor Godwyn is so flustered but you can't help but love the way his blush deepens when you flash him a lecherous grin. You'll have to do this often.

[izunias-meme-hole]

One Villainous Scene - The Impaler

Elden Ring's DLC, Shadow of The Erdtree received a mixed response, but if there's one thing everyone agrees on, its that the Golden Hippo and Commander Gaius were dogshit bosses, Radahn being alive was a jumpscare, and Messmer The Impaler lived up to his hype.

Messmer has been in promotional material for the DLC. presented as another cursed child of Marika, and a zealot at that. A lucifer-esuqe demigod with a demonic snake motif that was willing to do things his mother wouldn't. He has been presented like this since day one, and his in-game presence certainly matches the expectations that have been set. One of the first enemies we encounter is a Fire Golem, a tool of mass execution, and one of the few pieces of lore that learn about while roaming the damaged Land of Shadows are that of the Impaler's successful crusade to eliminate the Hornsent. So immediately, Messmer's presence is properly established, and it's expanded upon the more we run into his forces and see the damage he's done, and he certainly lives up to this imagery.

Then... we learn things. We learn about Marika's origins, we learn about where the living jars come from, we learn about the Hornsent's own brutality, but most importantly, we learn more about a different side of Messmer. At the request of his men he surprisingly authorized a museum in his keep preserve aspects the Hornsent's culture, he was trying to figure out how to cure jarred people, and overall Messmer carries a surprisingly level of compassion that cracks through his ruthless exterior. It becomes clear that there is more to this zealot than one would have originally thought, and ultimately one thing becomes clear. Messmer had a heart, but its one he shut off in order to do what his mother requested even if she never intended to repay him for his services.

As for his curse? Messmer's curse since brith involved the same serpents that are tethered to his body. An abysmal serpent had found its way into his body, and is constantly being repressed by a grace given glass eye that Marika gave her son. Yet this curse still affected his life. The curse put great fear into Marika, this curse caused some of his own to defect, and ultimately it was this curse that would make him the perfect scapegoat for the personal vengeance crusade against the Hornsent that Marika ordered. No matter how much he denied it, Messmer was abandoned by his own mother.

Now, let us enter the actual boss fight. The Tarnished enters his chambers, and gets noticed by Messmer immediately. At first he considers them as another pest, before realizing what they are, briefly thinking that Marika granted this graceless one lordship. He soon snaps out of it, declaring that he'll burn this graceless one in the embrace of his flame. After getting his ass handed to him for a little bit, Messmer begins to get desperate, looking towards a statue of is mother and apologizing before removing the grace that repressed his curse. Then, his body appears sicklier, his power multiplies, and subconsciously he's accepted that he might never be welcomed back into the arms of his mother. And his final words?

A curse upon his own mother.

So yeah... Messmer The Impaler everyone. A butcher, a scapegoat, a good leader, a loyal monster, and a child crying for mommy until accepting that she's not coming for his ass.

[librarytones]

Okay full on tin hat lore concept.

Most (all?) empyreans have an eye missing, maybe two. And some of them are marked by what looks to be a death bird claw.

Some people think Melina is the gloam eyed queen, and, while I'm not completely against that, it just doesn't feel like it lines up to me. However, no matter what, we do see Melina in the end of the Frenzied Flame ending with the dusk-colored eye, made to hunt you down.

What if... That dusky eye, the gloam eye, is a separate thing. What if Empyreans are as powerful as they are because they can host an outer gods power there, in the eye.

Marika's soreseals are evidence of her own power in an eye format. Messmer seems to posses one, and it also seals back the abyssal serpent. Malenia's eyes are rotted out, filled instead with the scarlet rot. Mogh's eye is pierced with horn and blood. Shabriri grapes are an entire thing to try and get maidens to start feeling the frenzied flame. We don't even see Miquella's/Trina's eyes, as they seem almost permanently shut in slumber.

What if, in the frenzied flame ending, Melina has gone and retrieved something like Gurranq's beast eye, using it to carry the power and influence of the blackflame to hunt down the Lord of frenzied flame?

Elden ring has a LOT of eye imagery, even beyond the empyreans...

Will think on this more...