#male socialization

[a-polite-melody]

Hey

If you ever find yourself tempted to blame anything negative about certain trans women you’ve met on some “male socialization” which makes all trans women like that

Maybe stop and think for two seconds

“Is the thing I’m talking about also something cis women are taught or will do to other women?”

Because I guarantee you the answer is ‘yes’.

“Oh there’s a problem with trans women treating people like sex objects, especially if the people they’re attracted to are women.”

That’s not a trans woman specific problem. That’s a problem you can also find with cis women at similar levels.

“Trans women act in ways that are misogynistic and don’t question it because ‘by my identity I can’t be a misogynist.’”

That’s not a trans woman specific problem. I think I’ve actually encountered more of this attitude from cis women than I have from trans women, myself.

“Trans women use their status as ‘the most oppressed’ to claim that any of their behaviour—even if it’s creepy, even if it’s bigoted, even if it’s predatory, even if it’s abusive—is justified because it is always ‘against their oppressors’ anyway.”

…Are we forgetting that cis radfems exist? That’s their whole schtick!

“Trans women act entitled to all other women’s bodies, this must be because they were taught as boys to act entitled to women’s bodies”

Acting entitled over women’s bodies is a problem that exists within the population of cis women to the point where it’s even cited as part of what makes up transmisogyny.

All of these things (and more) are much more coherently explained as patriarchal socialization of EVERYONE in society and often then a compounding of using your identity as a reason you shouldn’t need to unpack that. This is a society thing, not an ~AMAB socialization~ thing.

[lorynna]

What's the fucking problem with these guys whining about "my wife doesn't make me coffee on demand but does so when her boss requests it of her at work, which she gets paid for" and implying said boss is a male "she respects another man more than meeee" and if she argues with the fact that at work she gets paid to do it they come at you with "so money is worth more to you than your family, you money hungry b*tch"

[silver4tongue]

Whenever I, a woman from a country where feticide prevails and they kill you in the womb for having xx chromosomes, watch libfems and TRAs write long ass paragraphs about how sex/gender are very complicated and indistuingishable; I wonder how our oppressors are always able to tell

And how, coincidentally, across all cultures and continents, the same demographic (males) has systematically oppressed one particular demographic (females) for eons. Without error.

Just goes on to show how liberal feminists would rather cater to their tim audience than grow a spine and acknowledge that our experience as women is sex based.

[redditreceipts]

female socialisation vs. male socialisation in one picture

[knightingael]

It’s really no wonder that men cling desperately to the institutions that don’t allow women out from under their brutality. Separatism terrifies them for good reason. Look at single-sex male spaces in prisons, schools, and industries. When men/boys are alone together, they quickly create castes where they treat their lowers like they treat women in broader society - and the abuse knows no limits. It’s often sexual, often fatal, and it always revolves around degradation. Males recreate patriarchy, even when they’re alone together. They’re terrified of their own brutality and need to use women as a buffer.

[nakanx]

this is why it’s so important for feminists to talk about motherhood as well, instead of just saying “everyone should be child free” and leaving it at that. this is a HORRIBLE double standard that i’ve even noticed with my parents (my mom works during the day and dad stays home). when my mom is sick, she still does what needs done. my dad, however, hides in his room and ignores all responsibilities. it has nothing to do with who does the majority of the household duties and everything to do with male vs. female socialization.

[livinginadumpster]

is it wrong of me to conclude that dead boy detectives is about male socialization. bc throughout the show we see characters being hurt and abused at the hands of boys and men who never saw the wrong in their actions, but at the exact same time you have edwin and charles, who were never taught how to deal with their emotions and traumas other than to shove them down, learning to process and express their most complicated feelings in a healthy way. is it wrong of me to say that what we get out of the show is that male socialization fucks boys up and the patriarchy is detrimental to men as well. can anyone hear me

[uter-us]

this sunday, it was dissapointing to see how easy it was for the boys to run around and get their energy out outside, but for the little toddler girls in impractical frilly puffy dresses and impractical shoes, it's an obstacle for their play.

the girls', clothes are made to be seen in as opposed to being made to be worn, unlike the boys which are still nice for easter but they dont have to trip over the edge of a skirt or dress, or have their shoes fall off or pinch their toes when running, they can move and play freely.

it's a problem too cuz when toddlers don't get that energy out, they get irritable and pitch fits, so then the boys look like easy kids, and the girls difficult. let the girls run around!

female subjugation starts from birth. these girls are praised for being beautiful in their dresses, while also learning they cannot play in them. this correlation will not be lost on them especially as they grow up. "If i want positive attention from the important people in my life (like my congregation), this is what i do." the whole "beauty is pain" narrative, while not incorrect, is often viewed as normal and a justified fact of life, like "beauty IS pain and thats just how it is! oh the things us women go through to look pretty haha!". stop teaching girls that their beauty is WORTH pain, because it's not! they should never sacrifice to look attractive.

if half the congression can dress both formal and practical, so can the other half. don't handcuff little girls to femininity at the cost of their happiness and energy and play.

[empress-hancock]

The idea that transwomen do not experience male socialization (or at least don’t internalize/retain it) because they’re not actually men and their brains recognize this or however they may say it, is entirely dependent on the idea that men are supposed to be socialized the way that they are. The only way this argument works is if you believe male socialization (and by extension female socialization as well) is totally natural. If we accept that male socialization is not the way things are meant to be and is instead a part of a larger manmade issue (the concept of male supremacy), we have to then accept that, in the proposed scenario of transwomen rejecting male socialization, there is an inconsistency. If socialization is not natural and is a tool to enforce patriarchy, we have to ask this question: why is it that, given that neither are supposed to experience male socialization as it is manmade, only transwomen subconsciously reject male socialization as something that they are not meant to experience? If it is unnatural for both, then why does only one recognize this? The idea that transwomen are not men and are therefore not meant to experience male socialization and so they don’t internalize it directly implies that men are supposed to be socialized that way.

This is not how socialization works. You do not pick and choose what you internalize, and none of it is supposed to be any particular way, and your subconscious can’t reject things that are not supposed to be the way that they are if none of it is inherent.

[dykeulous]

been thinking a lot about the “to create loving men, we must love males” quote by bell hooks. i have seen it be spread around recently, but i feel like a lot of people seem to be missing the point. yes, to create loving men, we must love males; but this shouldn’t be done at the expense of women. it shouldn’t be used as a justification for misogyny and sexist statements such as, “oh look these women are such feminazis and they’re the reason why all these men are getting radicalized”. if we acknowledge that misogyny is societal, and not biological– and that men are socialized to do evil, instead of being biologically hardwired to do evil; then we also have to prevent that evil, and deal with harm reduction. misogyny is learned and it can be unlearned. each and every man is misogynistic, each and every man holds, at the very least, benevolent misogynistic attitudes & microaggressive beliefs– and this can be unlearned! with the right socialization. instead of jumping to attack the feminist who suggests that every man has inner bias he has to unlearn, because somehow she is being a “man-hater” despite encouraging him to unlearn his bias– we should hear her out. men can be great and valuable feminist allies. they can choose to do good. nothing is biologically hardwired in them. nothing is holding them back from being a decent & respectful human being. they shouldn’t get defensive when we rightfully critique male socialization– they shouldn’t get defensive when we suggest that their environment & culture has indoctrinated them to even subtly hold misogynistic values. this can be left behind. it’s not revolutionary to constantly push this need to “love males” at women, what is revolutionary though, is to encourage both women & men to engage with their children, to raise their children properly (and even then, parental socialization can only reach so far; what the child picks up from the rest of their environment is still crucial, as is the analysis of misogynistic culture & societal indoctrination), to enforce the right values, and to create rehabilitative anti-sexist programs. it is not “male-hating” or “misandrist” to suggest that men should unlearn their learned bigotry. if they wish to be good allies, they will have to listen. it’s just how it works.

men are not inherently bad people. our activism must come from a place of love, not hatred. this is what the bell hooks quote was about. to unjustified violence, one must react with benevolent violence; one that will reform and rehabilitate society. benevolent violence, revolutionary violence, comes from a place of love– and from a wish to end misogyny through revolutionary measures.

[bullshit-tqia]

“Oh, abortion isn’t legal in your state/country? Why don’t you just do it yourself, dumbass?”

A lot of trans women go straight to belittling other trans people just because they don’t feel comfortable with injecting testosterone from untrustworthy foreign sources into their bodies, which is a crime.

If trans women aren’t male socialized…why are so many of them much more willing to commit the crime of illegally acquiring HRT than the female socialized trans men?

[basedandradpilled]

alcoholic man who stopped drinking and lost 18lbs now thinks he’s too good for his wife that’s spent years putting up with his shit……

[unhingedfenestration]

sorry but new gender post! so like you know those terms male and female socialization

ive been thinking about those again

some people use female socialization to basically just call transmascs girls and male socialization just call transfems boys

but like i feel like the variables they’re trying to talk about are all sorta independent of each other? Like, assigned female does not 100% mean you picked up “female behaviors”, and likewise for assigned male.

like, i’m a trans girl. i was raised as a boy, that’s usually how that works. I was always, like 100% aware of gender though, and tried to adhere to whatever signals i saw adults giving girls bc that just felt right to me? and i’ve just absorbed so much of those behaviors all my life that like. whenever i see a post about female socialization or whatever i’m like. hm this just sounds like they’re talking about me. like all the male socialization behaviors are things i have explicitly tried to avoid for my entire life since childhood because i read them as boy stereotypes. not only is this proof that like, transfem =\= “socialized male” but i’m also trying to reiterate that those terms are exclusively good for talking about stereotypes and gender roles, NOT for fucking ignoring or bypassing trans people’s genders. ugh

socialized also just feels like the wrong word bc of all of that. like i was definitely socialized as male if that means treated as male, but i didn’t really perform any of the behaviors that people say ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ALWAYS FOLLOWS BEING ASSIGNED MALE that well or absorb them that deeply. i’m sure this is the case for others, and i’m also sure that some people absorbed some behaviors and never really performed others. False binaries are stupid.

[boreal-sea]

We’re talking about socialization again so here’s my two bits as a trans person:

If you say NO ONE experienced the socialization aimed at the sex they were assigned at birth, you are wrong.

If you say EVERYONE experienced the socialization aimed at the sex they were assigned at birth, you are ALSO WRONG.

I could go on and on with more examples but I hope what you see here is the use of absolutes.

“Everyone experienced this and it’s transphobic to say they didn’t!”

“No, NO ONE experienced that and it’s transphobic to say they did!!”

Here’s my take on socialization:

It’s personal.

Every single person has their own unique experience with gendered/sexed socialization. You invalidate and insult and exclude people when you insist everyone or no one experienced it the same way YOU did. There are a million things that can affect socialization, like race and religion and ethnicity. There is just no other way around this.

[redditreceipts]

[musingsunderstarlight]

Thinking about the sheer amount of self-hatred I grew up with seeing women’s naked bodies plastered on ads and posters and every empty space available around me, seeing women and girls in every form of entertainment degraded, their purpose defined solely as men’s sexual pleasure, and their own pleasure spat on and dismissed.

And wondering how it could ever be possible for a boy to grow up into a man in this society with fully developed empathy for girls and women as human beings when he has been constantly fed propaganda establishing the opposite from the minute he is born.