#lucius was a victim of izzy too

[crimson-and-clover-1717]

The difference between abuse…

… and tough love

They both paid heavy prices for being too much in Ed’s business whether they deserved it or not. But one got to live and marry the love of his life, and well, the other didn’t get either of those things.

And I think that’s fair.

[carrymelikeimcute]

Going over the izzy/lucius/shark exchange is so interesting in the context of this being an episode about apologies. About making concessions and trying to fix things.

(In this ep there's a lot about ed making amends/accommodating the crew's triggers and trauma. It's also about stede having to fix things when he upsets the superstitious crew by not treating their feelings as valid.)

At the start we have Ed's (probably well intentioned) but evasive, non-apology. He does an 'I'm sorry you feel that way' sort of apology about 'whatever that bad stuff was'. It's a wish to do better, but it doesn't really cover what went before. A lot of people interject here, but Izzy remains completely still and silent, off to one side.

Lucius says he never used the word 'sorry' and rightly calls this out. Roach however, says he's never heard an apology before - and liked it - so this seems like as much as it's a first for Ed to take even some accountability, it's probably the first time some of the crew have seen a captain (or anyone else) do this too.

Archie says 'They just get away with it and we move on'.

Lucius rounds on Izzy, because obviously Izzy should have the biggest grievance here. But Izzy responds to the question about Ed's apology as if it was about piracy in general - clearly showing that the cycle of abuse is a feature, not a bug. This is part of his life and identity as a pirate. This is, actually, things going back to normal. You get whipped (and we see these scars on him later) no one apologises, and you just reset to how it was before, pretending nothing has been altered until it all bubbles over again.

Ed then tells stede that he's never apologised for anything. Confirming that most of the crew's responses are in line with their past experiences.

Then Ed goes to fix the door and tells it that it's not its fault that it's broken, it was just doing it's job. This directly parallels Izzy's rant to the figurehead about it failing to do it's job. Ed could be talking about himself here, as Izzy was talking about himself - but to me it doesn't fit that well, because what 'job' was Ed trying to do? He could instead be acknowledging, indirectly, that he is aware that Izzy was doing his job - trying to make sure they all survived and functioned as a crew. Ed probably broke that door, and he broke Izzy. But he has yet to talk to him about it.

Immediately following this, is when he scares the BEJESUS out of Lucius and tells him 'it would be faster to get all this out in one go'. It sounds like a reasonable suggestion, but we know that it doesn't actually work. Lucius pushes him off the boat and it doesn't help. Because 'I hurt you, so now you hurt me' doesn't benefit the abused, it's still about making the abuser feel better - making them feel punished and therefore redeemed, even when their victim isn't healed. I don't think Ed is trying to manipulate Lucius here - both of them think it might help to 'fix things' but fixing things takes emotional intelligence that's not really developed yet.

ENTER, THE SHARK

Izzy starts working on the shark, after the non-apology. He doesn't have it in the 'candle fighting' scene obvs - but he does receive an apology in that scene, when stede says 'feet' and then corrects himself to foot. It's a simple straightforward apology, even if he does sort of laugh awkwardly. Izzy also at least attempted to apologise to Stede in ep. 3 - so he clearly sees the use in apologies - AND right after the apology, Izzy agrees to help stede. Their relationship changes. It gets better and they're no longer stuck in those old patterns. Izzy is full-on gentle parenting stede - even when he shoots down a fucking sail.

He also, notably, states that the crew's feelings on the curse are important. Meaning, how the crew feels is important to him, period.

After this, we're back to Lucius throwing Ed overboard. But it doesn't work because Ed doesn't remember the talent show thing, he doesn't really know why Lucius was so blindsided by that betrayal of trust. It's not about who goes overboard. It's about the dynamics underneath that and those can't be fixed by just trading places for a moment.

FINALLY. We see Izzy finishing the shark, and he's completely unsurprised that Lucius pushing Ed into the water didn't fix things. Izzy's done this 'tit for tat' thing - betraying Ed to the English over being banished - and it ended terribly for both of them. It escalated things. He knows it's not as simply as getting even with someone.

The solution Izzy has chosen to the cycle of his relationship with Ed is to pretend that Ed hasn't done anything to him. A shark did it. Like with the non-apology, blame is being shifted to a third party 'the bad things' the 'bad times'. Lucius (rightly) points out that this is not healthy, but Izzy's response, that's better than not moving on, clearly resonates.

Izzy's response to being hurt was to 1. Get even and 2. (when that proved deeply unsatisfying and made things worse) to put the unresolved conflict behind him. Because he doesn't think Ed is ever going to apologise or change, and wanting those things just hurt more.

Anyone who has parents/a partner/friend who's NEVER apologised for anything, knows how he's feeling. You stop trying to have it out and fix the relationship, and it starts to wither, even though the other person thinks it's healthy.

'Not moving on is worse' is a warning, and it's one that Lucius takes to heart, immediately trying to centre positive things instead of resentment and anger. He shares his feelings with Pete, and their relationship thrives.

The issue here, is that denial doesn't work. Lucius might be able to move on from what happened to him without a proper apology from Ed, but that's because he's not in a relationship with him. Izzy's the one who's really in it with Ed - he's had DECADES of this shit. That can't be willed away.

Stede's resolution to the curse conflict models a healthier method and one that I'm hoping we see in a future episode between Ed/Izzy. He validates the crew's feelings, make a sacrifice (the suit) and TOGETHER they collaborate on a solution to the issue that is mutually satisfactory - he even gets to keep the shirt, as a sort of compromise. It isn't about just making stede or the crew feel better, it's about moving on together.

This happens with Ed and Fang! Ed actually apologises once he realises what, specifically he did wrong. Fang says they're 'sweet' because he beat Ed to death (oof) which outwardly seems like retaliation working - but there has also been an actual apology and Fang wasn't retaliating against Ed, he was standing up for himself - a physical version of saying 'that wasn't OK - you need to change'.

This method of resolution is echoed in the final scene, with stede and ed. They reach an understanding about the pace of their relationship and find a happy medium (holding hands) - mutually satisfied and moving forwards.

Bottom line? I hope we see 1. Ed actually apologise to Izzy and 2. the pair of them outline what it is they want to change in their relationship moving forward, ending the cycle for good.

Thank you for coming to my Ed talk.

[portraitofadyke]

what's been bugging me is how some people, especially steddyhands shippers, seem to ignore Stede's complete blind spot that is Ed. I've been rereading some post s1 fix-its, and it's amazing how almost every one of their reunions had Stede blaming Ed for marooning the crew and attempting to kill Lucius (same with ppl's expectation that there would be some sort of physical fight). And then he just. Doesn't.

Stede obviously cares for the crew. A lot. But the moment Ed's well being is in the picture, he becomes hyperfocused on Ed and Ed only. Obviously the crew told him about being marooned, but we don't see him mention that once in his letters. They reunite with Lucius, and yet all Stede talks about is Ed (and his poor portrayal on his wanted posters)- Lucius confesses about Ed throwing him overboard, and all Stede does is question 'why?', because he knows Ed wouldn't just randomly attempt to murder Lucius. The moment Lucius tells him Stede broke Ed, Stede is back to blaming himself, never Ed. He clearly cares about Lucius, because later in the ep, he tries to reconcile with him by giving him 'dating advice' and trying to save him from what happened to him and Ed, but Ed comes first.

We actually see it in s1 too, if only briefly, in s7 when Stede desperately tries to keep Ed abroad and becomes oblivious to the crew's concerns and problems and we get the iconic line "Eat and apple, for God's sake!" Stede cares, but Ed is at the front of his mind and it's hard for him to understand what could be more important.

In s02e03, he gets his ship and the rest of his crew back, but Ed is nowhere. Izzy is literally missing a leg and Stede just tells him to piss off.

And I've seen people questioning why Stede never questioned that, why he never bothered to ask about Izzy's missing toe or back scars or why he didn't care about the leg more. Izzy clearly lies again and tells Stede Ed shot it off because he told Ed he loves him, and yet stede just. Doesn't care.

And i mean, that question is valid. Because people see Stede as someone who's much more caring, more hero-coded. But Stede is far more a romantic hero to Ed than he is your general hero to the rest of the characters. Stede is selfish. Stede is blind-sided. Stede is willing to abandon his morals when it comes to Ed.

I think there are two reasons Stede doesn't question Izzy's Ed-inflicted-injuries, or any other, for that matter. First one is, Stede's blind spot for Ed. Yeah, Izzy got his leg shot off by Ed (not entirely true, but I digress), but there must have been a reason why. Yeah, Izzy got his toes cut off and hand-fed, but Ed had a reason. Stede knows Ed is not violent by default, so he knows something must have prompted him to do that. Is it completely justified? That's a differenr convo about people trying to portray Izzy as a victim rather than someone who kept pushing Ed over the edge until they were both too far.

The second is... Yeah, Stede just doesn't care. Especially about Izzy. Lie it's been pointed out, Stede just thinks izzy is a dick. He misnames him. He's rightuflly mad at him for selling them out to the english. He literally dreams about killing Izzy for that. Stede blames himself for abandoning Ed and everything that happened after (and yes, Ed's actions are Ed's actions, but that's how Stede sees it), but he clearly also blames Izzy for setting them up.

So, Stede sees Izzy's missing leg? Probably deserved that. Back scars, missing toe? Eh, probably deserved that, too, Ed would look absolutely lovely in a braid. Is that morally correct? No, but Stede isn't written to be a moral character. That's what makes him so real, and that's why so many other actors than Rhys would struggle making Stede sympathetic and likeable to the audiences.

That's not to say Stede doesn't see Ed's wrongs. He absolutely does. He just. Doesn't care that much in the end, because his love for all of Ed is that bright, to the point of being absolutely, utterly selfish. DJenkins said it from the beginning; this show is about Ed and Stede's relationship. Stede doesn't question Izzy's injuries bc in the end, it just doesn't matter to him when Ed is in the picture

[canonizzyhours]

I cannot ship sprizzy bc it just completely ignores Pete. I know there’s a lot of “Izzy is recovering from years of poverty and childhood abuse” headcanon lifted right from Ed’s character, but “falling in love and calming down about toxic masculinity” is Pete’s initial storyline. Pete is a foil. He is hostile to Stede and “women’s work” at first, but very quickly gets over it. He’s funny, he’s cute, he’s sweet, and Lucius and Pete are the happiest couple on the show. I adore Stede and Ed but their attempts to figure out their relationship drives the plot of the show, so they have more conflict. Lucius and Pete are good. They marry because they are ready to marry and they both know it. It’s getting difficult to find any Izzy-focused fan works that don’t actively remove parts of canon that I like. I like Pete’s story. It’s not Izzy’s story. Izzy’s story is that over the course of his 60 years alive he has hurt everyone around him including himself by being an asshole and behaving like the Masculinity Police. He thinks that enforcing behavior that conforms to social norms of what a man should be is the correct thing to do, and he doesn’t realize how much he is wrong until he is dying. His story is a tragedy, not because he was victimized by others, but because he victimized himself.

He is a cautionary tale. His obsession with enforcing gender norms alienates him from everyone around him. He doesn’t realize this until the end of his life. That’s his tragedy. The majority of the show says it’s never too late to change and be happy, and Izzy’s role is the message that while it’s never too late, you have to actually accept others as they are in order to cope with reality and accept yourself as you are.

#331.

[sky-fire-forever]

Being a Our Flag Means Death fan whose favorite characters are Izzy AND Ed is wild. Because I'll be in the Izzy Hands tag and I'll see posts about how horrible Ed is and how you shouldn't like him and how his arc sucked and actually he's terrible and unforgivable

And then I'll be in the Edward Teach tag and I'll see posts about how Izzy is the real villain and how him dying is so good for his arc and Ed is finally free of him

I genuinely think people who try to make either Izzy or Ed into the perfect victims who never did anything wrong are kinda... boring? I dunno. Imo pretending that either of them are completely innocent is a disservice to their characters. But so is acting like either of them are terrible, unforgivable people

Ed abused Izzy. He was nasty to him and incredibly physically violent towards him as a routine. He abused not only Izzy, but the entire crew. He was beyond cruel. He struggles with understanding the severity of his own actions and disassociates to deal with his more horrific crimes. He drives Izzy to a suicide attempt after abusing him directly and mutilating him repeatedly. He gives a non-apology and is grumpy when the people he tortured don't automatically forgive him

Ed is also a survivor of his own abuse, both from his father and Hornigold. He's someone who desperately wants to be a better person, but doesn't understand how. He's someone who loves people a lot, but who also genuinely doesn't understand what love IS. He doesn't understand romance or gentleness or how to exist in a world without violence. But he tries really hard to become something that doesn't come naturally to him. He tries to learn how to become a good person and gets frustrated when he makes mistakes

Ed constantly relapses into abusive tendencies or doesn't realize that his behavior is wrong. But he very genuinely TRIES. He's someone who clearly struggles with empathy, with understanding that what's fun for him is traumatizing to others. He struggles with understanding that just because he's ready to move on, that doesn't mean everyone else has to

I don't think that's a flaw in his writing! I think that's a character flaw and it's actually something about Ed that really, really interests me!

(I do think there's some issue in the way the narrative presents it, with the crew going along with Ed's non-apology and then Lucius being shamed for still being traumatized, but that's not the point of this particular post)

And then with Izzy

Izzy is a fucking dick. He's a jerk who lashes out against people who aren't part of the group he's deemed worthy of his protection. He views people as either allies or enemies, with very little room for something in between. His allies are only the people in his crew and everyone else can get fucked. He's quite selfish in certain ways and he doesn't care who gets hurt as long as it isn't himself or the people he cares about. He holds himself and others to standards of extremely toxic masculinity. He despises change and resorts to allying with his literal worst enemies just so he can get the guy he likes to be with him again. He's cruel and abusive towards those who are lower than him in rank, constantly making other people feel insecure.

He's also someone who is fiercely loyal, even to his own detriment. He's someone who admits when he's wrong and always tries to fix his own mistakes. When he loses the duel with Stede, he asks Ed to let him stay, but he doesn't actually fight it. He goes peacefully, even if he whines about it. He holds himself accountable to his word and to his bond. He's loyal to Ed as his captain and as his friend/lover. He's loyal to his own crew first and foremost. When he has the British attack The Revenge, it appears as though he saves Ivan and Fang, not just Ed. He expresses disappointment when members of their crew die saving Stede from the Spanish. He protects the Kraken Crew from Ed and even stands up to Ed when he realizes things have gone too far. He's someone who has longed for community, but has only found it recently

Izzy as a character is loyal to a fault. Loyal to Ed to the point where he'll get Stede killed rather than let Ed go soft and betray who he is. And I do genuinely think Izzy thinks Stede dying is the best possible course of action because he's an idiot who is going to get Ed killed because he's a fucking idiot. And Ed being so soft snd not being a pirate is also super dangerous when he's like. The most wanted pirate there is. Izzy is loyal to Ed and to his crew. He's someone who cares too much, but tries to act like he doesn't care at all. He covers up his own insecurity by insulting others and he has a LOT of insecurity

They're both just.... such great characters and I love them both. But neither of them are perfect. They're both so fucked up and that's part of why I love them

[suffersinfandom]

This is a somewhat-hingeless rant about disability and OFMD/Izzy takes.

Tumblr handed me a "recommended" post that made me so mad I ended up deleting a moderately unhinged reply and walking away for a bit. It's still eating at me, so I'm just gonna reply to it indirectly.

(I know this is cowardly, but anything I say will just lead to fighting and I'm tired. If anyone wants to discourse about whatever I post, please do me a favor and don't rant at me directly. Take caps and scream into the void like a gentleperson.)

First: I am physically disabled and I often use visible disability aids (just establishing my credentials so I'm allowed to not support this take uncritically). I also have mental health issues and less visible physical issues that honestly cripple me more.

Second: the title alone, man. My main issue with this whole thing is the disability gatekeeping, but that interpretation... hngh. I don't think OFMD was trying to meet a disability quota, you know? It's not "we have three disabled people so we can kill one off."

"Izzy shouldn't have died because he's the most clearly, visibly disabled" is a weird take because it conflates two unrelated things: Izzy's disability and Izzy's death. It's okay to be upset that Izzy died because his specific disability was something you related to. It hurts to have representation taken away! But his death had a narrative purpose. It had nothing to do with his status as an amputee.

And yeah, people are disabled in different ways, but is acknowledging that really an invitation to dismiss some disabilities as invalid? Sure, let's gatekeep disability. Let's decide that some people aren't disabled, actually. Lucius, Black Pete, Wee John, Spanish Jackie, and Ed aren't disabled in a way that's huge and traumatic and life-changing, so throw them out.

Except Ed is one of our protagonists, and I'd argue that his issues are way more important to the narrative than Izzy's. Ed's bad knee is technically fanon (fanon that I love because I too have bad joints and a shit knee), but I would argue that Ed is absolutely canonically disabled. Are we really supposed to disregard his crippling mental health issues because they're not visible? We're just going to shrug off the suicidal despair that drove a huge chunk of the plot? Wild that something so central to the story just doesn't matter because it's not the right kind of disabled.

That was a tangent, sorry. Back to Izzy and the injury that was "thrust upon him."

Yes, his injury is life-changing and traumatic. I'm sympathetic -- but not as sympathetic as I would be if he hadn't played a significant part in the events that led to the loss of his leg.

"That's victim blaming!"

It's a statement of fact. As Izzy himself admitted, he drove the darkness in Ed. He dangled his leg over the side of the ship and a shark bit it off. The injury wasn't thrust upon him so much as actively courted.

Izzy tried to shoot himself in the head at his lowest moment. If I may misquote OP: if you cannot see that there is a WORLD of difference between Ed's multi-episode suicidal arc and Izzy impulsively seeking an out, I honestly do not know what to say to you.

But the big thing about Izzy is that he is a secondary character in a story. If you take off the Izzy blinders, you can see that it's not all about him. His go at suicide killed the symbol of toxic masculinity that he had been up to that point so his story could progress. When he crawled along the floor whining pathetically, his sheer levels of wet cat-ness brought the crew together. The crew rallying around him and giving him the love and forgiveness that he did not ask for? That was about the crew and their growth, not Izzy.

Izzy did not have some deep-seated care for the crew before he was shot. He didn't throw himself in front of a bullet for them. He was not the crew's protector. Izzy's growth began when Ed essentially fired him, and the real changes happened post leg removal.

But here's something super important: Izzy was not suicidal when he told Ed he was ready to go.

Because yeah, I agree, it'd suck if a character who attempted suicide spent a few episodes being rehabilitated and accepting love and who he is turned around and decided that he wanted to die. It's a good thing that's not what happened.

This is what made me decide not to reply directly. Yeah, clearly a lot of disabled queer people are upset. And you know what? That's fine! I always support feeling what you're feeling, even if that feeling is negative. I'm sorry that other queer disabled people are hurting, and I don't want to add to that hurt by being directly confrontational.

Then OP said the last part and I was riled all over again. I was prepared to reblog since I meet their criteria (or maybe I don't -- I might not be the right kind of disabled), but what's the point? How miserable do I want to be? How much do I want to make them miserable?

I know I ranted a lot here, but what I'm getting at is this: Izzy DID NOT "go from wanting to die after a hugely traumatic disabling life event" to "wanting to die after finding acceptance and happiness." If he had, I'd totally understand why OP is upset and I'd think, yeah, maybe they should've run that by a few more people.

Izzy didn't want to die. He accepted his death as the inevitability it was -- inevitable not just because the wound was fatal, but because his death was important to the larger story and, importantly, Ed's story.

Izzy is piracy. Izzy is toxic masculinity personified. Izzy is anchoring Ed to Blackbeard. Izzy is not a character who overcame great obstacles and found acceptance just to decide that, actually, he'd like to be dead instead. He's not David Jenkins and company telling people who relate to Izzy that they should just die. He's not proof that recovery and joy are impossible for broken people.

Look at Ed. He went from wanting to die to wanting to live and do better. He's still working for his acceptance and happiness, and Izzy's last words are insistence to him that he'll get there.

Lucius said that some people are just broken, and this season does everything it can to refute that. One of the clearest themes is no one is broken beyond repair. People can change and they can heal and they can be forgiven by the people they hurt. This theme is so clear that I don't understand how anyone can overlook it.

I've been typing for ages and I'm honestly so sorry to anyone who takes me seriously enough to read this. It's a lot of negativity, and we have more than enough of that.

(And if you're disabled, hurt by Izzy's death, and also somehow still here, I sincerely hope that you feel better about it soon. I hope you'll come across meta that puts things into perspective in a way that lets you appreciate OFMD's positive messages and make peace with or move past season two. Barring that, I hope you find a new show to latch onto that gives you everything you want.)

[goayda]

Not My Place to Say - Part 1

First part of a Stizzy fic (it was getting too long to post in one go). As previously mentioned in one of my posts, Izzy meets Lestat on shore leave (I'm ignoring IWTV canon because I don't remember much of it, lets just say that Lestat traveled a lot and he happened to be there).

(As usual, set some time after 2x07, Ed is happy being a fisherman somewhere and there was no Zheng fight and no Prince Ricky attack. As usual too, no warnings needed.)

-------------

Izzy had noticed the man the moment he had walked into the tavern, but so had the rest of the people there. The man had been tall, blonde and handsome and his clothes had been colorful, expensive and more surprisingly, impeccably clean, which had made him stand out like a sore thumb.

He had also looked like the perfect victim in a place full of half-drunk pirates so it hadn’t taken long before one of them had pulled a knife on him to steal the noticeable bag of coins the man had been carrying. Big mistake.

The blonde man had known how to fight. In the blink of an eye the pirate had been knocked out on the ground and the stranger had simply straightened his outfit with a slightly annoyed look on his face, not a hair out of place.

The man had looked around the whole room with a cocky smile on his face as if daring any of them to try again, but before things could escalate, the owner of the place, a tough, short woman with more scars than many of the sailors in her business, had banged her fist on a table and had put a stop to it.

“Quarrels on the street!” she had yelled. “This is a serious warning!”

“Of course, ma’am,” the blonde man had said with a charming smile and a noticeable French accent. “I didn’t mean to cause any trouble, allow me to invite these gentlemen to a drink and put this unfortunate incident behind us. The next round is on me!” he had added loudly for the whole tavern to hear.

Everybody had cheered loudly and then they had gone back to their conversations and card games, ignoring the newcomer as long as they could get free rum. Izzy, who had been sitting alone in a corner while keeping an eye on his crew, had been ready to do the same, but suddenly the blonde man had appeared by his side and had offered him a drink.

Izzy had simply accepted it and god knew why, he hadn’t complained when the man had sat beside him, uninvited. Izzy had caught a glimpse of Bonnet’s frowning face and Lucius’ mischievous smirk then, but he had purposely ignored them as the man had introduced himself as Lestat de Lioncourt and had asked his name in that thick French accent of his, apparently unabashed by Izzy’s glare.

In the end Izzy had told the stranger his name and they had talked for a while and when a bit later the man had offered to share a room in the nearby inn, Izzy had looked at his silken shirt, his colorful jacket and the blonde hair framing the stupidly handsome face and he had said yes.

Still no idea why, Izzy thought as he walked back to the ship in the morning. He had been lonely, maybe. It had been too long since the last time he had allowed himself this, probably. So why the hell not? Right?

They had simply had a good time. The sex had been great and Izzy had enjoyed kissing that smug smile off his face and making him moan. The blonde man had been mindful of his stump, but hadn’t made a fuss over it and when they had parted ways he had not made it awkward or made cheap promises, he had simply smiled and wished Izzy safe travels before walking away.

So the thing was, why was Izzy feeling uneasy now, as he got closer to the Revenge? The image of Bonnet frowning at him kept coming back to his mind, but it was not as if the man, captain or not, could object to what Izzy did on shore leave. He did not have to, and he would not explain who he decided to spend the night with.

But still the image of Bonnet’s annoyed look persisted. Had he hated not being the centre of attention for once? Had he wanted the blonde stranger for himself? Well, it didn’t matter. He didn’t care. Or so Izzy kept repeating to himself as he reached the ship.

[wadinginthevelvet]

sorry but I love the Izzy “dangling my legs over the side of the ship” scene because like. he’s literally right. it DOES serve him right.

Ed was deeply heartbroken but coping healthily until Izzy got in his head & made him feel like all he deserved was destruction. Ed TRUSTED Izzy, and this person who he felt knew him & saw him & cared about him essentially confirming in his view that he doesn’t deserve good things and only has worth as a monster— that being soft was worse for him than being dead— made him feel that he truly was unloveable and shoved him over the edge into the Kraken persona. plus Izzy ASKED him to be violent! he grinned when he cut off his toe! the beginning of s2 is Izzy realizing that a. Ed is not actually happy as Blackbeard and is in fact destroying himself and b. Izzy himself has grown to care for this crew in a way he didn’t realize he had and maybe actually has some human empathy. and doesn’t want them to be brutalized. which I honestly don’t think he had a handle on before it was too late & he’d already set them up for this level of violence. and also clearly he did NOT know Ed in the way he thought he did! he didn’t realize he cared about the crew like that, but he also didn’t think Kraken-Ed would be that intense. he thought that horrible pep talk was what Ed needed to get back to being pre-Stede Blackbeard, not realizing that pre-Stede Blackbeard was a facade Ed was already deeply unhappy and insecure underneath, but also failing to comprehend (or even notice) the extent of Ed’s trauma and lack of self-worth and the fairly obvious (to anyone who actually knew or understood Ed) fact that telling him those things would shatter his very fragile belief that he deserved these tenuous but brave attempts at taking care of himself and trying to become who he wanted to be. Kraken-Ed was not who Izzy thought he would trigger when he gave him the talk, because he didn’t actually know or understand him like he thought he did. & that’s what he’s coming to terms with in s2 and it is a wonderful arc! lots of people have written fantastic metas about Izzy & his motivations and the complexity of his realization that he didn’t know Ed like he though he did & wasn’t close to him like he thought he was so I won’t bother to fully go into that here as interesting as it is. but like.. he asked for violence & he got it. he didn’t have a good handle on his own feelings about the crew/piracy and he evidently had zero handle on Ed’s (he is masterful at suppression but isn’t emotionally intelligent enough to be able to tell Ed is too), and while yeah it was Ed’s trauma and whole brutal career as a pirate and this glimpse at a different future and Stede’s betrayal all coming together to cause Ed’s eventual breakdown, Izzy’s talk is what made him give up and pushed him overboard into the Kraken era. he convinced him he was worthless if he wasn’t a monster, & in doing so unleashed that monster onto himself and the crew. he taunted the shark and lost a leg. I don’t think there’s anything unhealthy about him framing it like that— he isn’t suppressing his feelings about it or pretending it didn’t happen— he’s just processing & accepting the truth of the matter. when Lucius says Blackbeard cut off his leg and Izzy says “a shark did this”, he’s acknowledging it wasn’t really Ed who shot him, but a violent, hopeless, actively suicidal caricature of Blackbeard, a monster Izzy helped create. Izzy isn’t Ed’s victim— they’re an eye for an eye now. and I’m glad he acknowledged it like that

[rotatedaxis]

Izzy Hands: a not particularly well-organised essay (Season 2 spoilers ahead)

I love seeing Izzy accept Stede as a captain, maybe not as his captain yet, but definitely a captain, by the end of episode 5. He's moved on from all this talented guys ending up dead but this utter buffoon is still standing by whatever luck and starts seeing him for his behaviour when the guy gets up to come stab him (and screams, my guy that's not how you sneak up on someone) and he fires a warning shot and threatens him to not try him again. Part of it feels like it's because Izzy has started to see himself as part of the crew and not an outsider or last proof of Blackbeard's crew. Since the leg was left by the door (for the new unicorn), he's come off the alcohol and started to act alongside the crew instead of against them or just being a bystander - he coaches Stede to respect that the crew sees the suit as cursed, a threat, and gets him to apologise to them, see it from their perspective, and get rid of it with the crew in a way they deem fit. The gift of the leg to Izzy shows him that this crew, as angry as he made them and how much he's pushed them around and been cruel, ultimately are willing to respect him and invite him in to be one of them and by calling him the 'new unicorn' and using what remains of the ship's figurehead, he is part and parcel of the ship now, essential to it. This is furthered by Jim saying that “He’s our dick” about Izzy, when they talk about life on the ship meaning something because, as much as he wasn’t nice to them and isolated himself, he was already part of the crew even if he didn’t want to be or act like it. As mentioned above, this becoming one with the ship through the leg, may be part of why he's more willing to treat Stede as a captain and put trust in him to lead without immediately taking over because he is, too, part of the ship where Stede is the captain and trusted to lead the crew. When he's speaking to Lucius, Izzy says that it's a shark that took his leg when he was sitting on the edge of the ship and that he got what he deserved. This feels like a way of saying that he put himself in danger, standing up to Blackbeard when he was more volatile than ever, and that getting himself hurt was an inevitability. He put himself out to protect the crew, ultimately, and it got him shot. He lost his leg to Blackbeard, as much as he didn't personally amputate it, the crew did. Sitting on the edge of a ship isn't the safest thing to do as is standing up to a heartbroken, angry, volatile man with a history of violence that you are also a victim of. Izzy diced with a shark and got himself hurt. He uses the fiction of a shark taking his leg to distance himself from what really happened. This also displays the dichotomy between Blackbeard and Edward that comes up so much in season 1. Now that the crew have Ed again (as much as they clearly aren't all that happy about it), Izzy doesn't see the same man who took his leg - he sees a happy Edward who would've never done that to him - and so Blackbeard becomes Izzy's 'shark', a figure of violence and cruelty as he can no longer reconcile Edward and Blackbeard as one person since having seen what he really can become if pushed too far. So, it's a shark that hurt him, not his captain because his captain wouldn't hurt his first mate so severely.

The crew didn't know what kind of captain they were dealing with once Blackbeard was that gone - making them fight because he didn't want to see people in love, steering them into a storm that could kill them and getting rid of the wheel only to threaten to take out the sails which would've killed them all and who stopped it? Who allowed the crew the chance to mutiny and save themselves? Izzy. In shooting Blackbeard, Izzy gave the crew the opportunity to save themselves and put a stop to the man making their lives hell. “We cannot let this crew suffer anymore for our mistakes.” is what Izzy says to Stede when they meet again. Izzy watched the whole crew suffer under Blackbeard because of how he kept trying to get back the Blackbeard he was used to before he met Stede, and long before Stede broke his heart. Izzy himself suffered under an angry and heartbroken Blackbeard. Izzy sees dragging back up all of Blackbeard’s original behaviours, when magnified by heartbreak, as a mistake caused by him and Stede and has led the crew to suffer extensive trauma from raids, and fights, and surviving at sea instead of living like they had before everything went wrong. Izzy seeing what happened as a mistake supports the idea that he is truly a part of the crew and cares about them and what happens to them. Izzy is not innocent, of course, as he, initially, did try to follow Blackbeard as a first mate should. However, the cracks in this show early on, where the crew have to comfort him and talk to him about how Blackbeard has been awful to him as well and that it’s an unhealthy relationship and this leads to him standing up to Blackbeard about the state of the atmosphere on the ship and how it’s “fucked”. He actively took a stand to the man he wanted to be his captain to support what remained of Blackbeard and Stede’s original crews despite knowing how dangerous Edward was in his state which resulted in him losing his leg.

He lost his leg for the crew, and in return they gave him a new one and solidified his place onboard The Revenge and as a part of the crew.

[spheronite]

watching ofmd season 2 is like

STEDE IS FORGIVEN ED IS FORGIVEN LUCIUS HAS PTSD AND PROPOSED TO PETE THERE ARE LESBIAN WOMEN THEY LIVE AT THE SWAMP BUTTONS THE VICTIM OF YAOI TURNED INTO SEAGULL IZZY THE UNICORN THE KISS YOU GO TOO FAST FOR ME I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU STEDE TRYING TO BE A GOOD CAPITAN THEY ARE TOGETHER AGAIN COMMUNICATING TALKING TOUCHING EACH OTHER AAAAAAAaand im absolutely comfortable with it btw

[diamondcitydarlin]

far be it from me to interrupt the unnecessary character hate train some folks in this fandom insist on having but I have to say, what seemed a little unnecessary but still somewhat understandable from a separate POV in season 1 just doesn't make any sense now- that is, of course, a time-honored fandom pasttime of trying to force a character into the role of villain against the actual narrative. it's nothing new ofc I've seen it happen in just about every fandom I've been in and I've learned that there usually isn't a point in trying to debate with people that have made up their minds this way and with the way I've tagged this I'm probably just preaching to the choir but like...it seems to me this whole season is ALL about being flawed, the ways in which every character in the cast (beloved or otherwise) has flaws and issues that have hurt others, but most significant, the ways in which a person can grow and learn and mend and still deserve to be loved despite everything. this isn't really a story where you can pick out the 'good ones' with completely clean moral slates from those you've decided are irredeemable unless you're choosing to ignore the actual themes being presented (which like, fine, but that's a choice of interpretation that goes directly against what's actually there). Everyone has been victim of someone else. Everyone at this point has inflicted some kind of hurt on someone else. Stede hurt Ed, Ed hurt Stede, Ed hurts Izzy, Izzy hurt Ed, Ed hurt Lucius, Lucius hurt Black Pete and so on and so on and so on. There's really no one here who is just a completely blameless uwu victim and that's actually a good thing because most of us just fucking aren't either, as much as we may want to believe that or think of ourselves as morally superior to others bc of fictional characters we like or don't or whatever, as much as we may be caught up in our own victimhood (which I absolutely get I've found myself there many times too) we're all flawed, we've all hurt people, there's no getting through life without doing it at some point. it's not really about having or trying to manufacture the image of a clean moral slate, it's about learning and growing and trying to do better the next day and accepting those flaws with a gentle grace. the sooner some of yall wrap your minds around that truth the better off you're going to be, and maybe a good start is learning from these flawed, imperfect, sometimes hurtful characters that we've grown to love because we see ourselves in their actions.

some poignant takeaways from the last couple of eps I think are 1) when Fang suggests to Ed he should try sitting with himself for a bit instead of trying to talk through and shallowly justify everything. I think everyone can benefit from doing this, as so often we think of things from an external perspective rather than internal. It can be hard to introspect rather than blame the world or others and construct little superficial rituals that make us feel momentarily superior (like, idk, deciding one character in a show is the 'bad guy' and anyone who likes him is bad but not you you're not bad bc you don't like him so you must be a better person even though this involves you picking fights and harassing people trying to enjoy themselves, idk, just a random example). It's so much harder to ask yourself why you feel a certain way in the first place, to ask yourself if it's possible that you see aspects of yourself in a character you despise that you're not willing to face within, things about yourself you've buried deep and pretend don't exist at the cost of being 'morally superior'. It's possible, isn't it? Would it hurt to be still for a moment and think about that? I mean, maybe it would, quite possibly it would hurt a lot at first, but I think it's worth it in the end, far more than the effort to put up a morally superior front that no one even has.

the other one that I think the people I'm actually addressing won't appreciate because of who it involves- when Izzy gives Lucius the carved shark and explains that not moving on is worse than doing what is necessary to actually move on. Not necessarily advocating for lying to oneself (tho if I were a more reckless person I might say this can be a genuine bandaid tactic when you're in survival mode and just need to get to the next day, I get that too) but I do think there's a good point here about learning to let go of the things that only gnaw away at us inside. holding on to anger and spite can feel like a form of justice in the short term, but over time it only corrodes the host. at some point, at some time, to truly heal we have to figure out how to let go of certain things, if only so it won't poison us further. Lucius threw Ed overboard the same way he did to him, but ultimately it didn't help, did it? What changed was seeing the way his obsession with his hatred hurt the man he loved, what changed was introspection.

So, idk, really good show, very educational and emotionally aware and I think some of us could benefit from paying more attention to what's actually there than what we want to believe. Idk, it's a thought.

[canonizzyhours]

New Year New Vent, and this one's coming in hot.

I genuinely do not understand the obsession behind Izzy, or why he amassed such a cult following out of all the characters in the show. There, I said it.

I am aware that this opinion is somewhat rhetorical. Because, the reason lies in the troublesome fandom trajectory of "let's form a cocoon around the shitty white man and make him the saddest, wettest, poorest little baby boy and turn a blind eye to characters of color and women," so I know there's explanation to be had there, but even still. So much of what people argue makes him so special can be found in so many other characters, and then some.

Wanting prosthetic or physical disability representation? Lucius is right there with his prosthetic finger. Jackie is right there with her fierce prosthetic hand. Ed is right there with his knee brace.

Older queer representation? Broadly gestures to basically every single character, most of which have much more solid and visible representation anyway.

An older man coming into himself and accepting parts of himself he had long been fighting with? Aggressively gestures to our two leads.

A character having to deal with their past and with subsequent trauma? Once again aggressively gesturing to our two leads, but also many other characters, too. Jim had an entire subplot dedicated to them and their trauma in Season One for crying out loud.

A pirate stepping away from the harsher and more violent nature of piracy? Ed is right there, and with a solid character arc at that.

A man dressing in drag? Wee John is right there (and I feel like his performance and look really got eclipsed for the song but that's a whole different rant).

Gender non-conformity, or trans representation? Jim is right there, and I believe one of the writers pointed out how many of Ed's arcs have trans/gnc symbolic ties (Don't even know where the aggressive insistence that Izzy is canonically trans even came from either, but again, whole different rant).

There is just so much goodness and representation to be found in so many characters. They are all so rich and developed and wonderful. In my opinion, that makes it so easy to feel seen and heard, as there are pieces of comfort and visibility to be found in such a wide scope. The show wants us to feel seen in that regard.

Yet, the focus lands on the angsty masc white man once more. I mean, really? Is fandom racism and prejudice really so rife? Again, rhetorical, but it just boggles my mind.

Also, all of this isn't to say that people can't make Izzy their favorite character. Just the "he's the main character" and "he's a victim and no one else" and equivalent behavior is just unfathomable to me. The bullying and the toxic insistence when there are so many other wonderful characters with wonderful arcs is absolutely unfathomable.

It would just be so fun and nice to appreciate him for the character he is, ie an antagonistic presence who is later shaped and swayed by his environment. Putting him in a jar and shaking him around makes sense (big thank you for this space), not whatever we've been left with.

#228.

[adzeisval]

Waterboarding

Roach teaches a torture class. Major character death in this one. Also on AO3.

Roach always felt like he had a little bit of a duty to help out in the community. As he got older he taught young pirate cooks the best ways to make good food out of anything and everything that was at hand, he helped where he could teaching and passing on his medical knowledge. 

But most of all he liked to teach torture techniques. 

There was something about torture that was just so relaxing, especially when it was torturing the English. 

Roach had captured an English soldier on their last trip for supplies and had put out the call to some young pirates to head on to in to the inn for a lesson. 

“Welcome everyone, it’s so good to see you all again. Today I’ll be teaching you waterboarding!” 

There were some murmurs and few excited faces and Roach was pleased at that reaction. He had his teaching table, which doubled for both medical and torture teaching which was nice. 

“First, we’ll secure the victim,” Roach said tying the man to the table, having some of the students come up and practice good knot work. Once the victim was secure Roach tilted the table back with the man’s head facing downward. He made sure they knew they didn’t need a fancy table to do so though one was always a nice bonus. 

“Now we’re going to need a cloth to cover the face,” Roach said, “And we can start with it wet or dry, it doesn’t really matter.” 

“Can you piss on the cloth?” 

“That’s good! I like that!” Roach said and the student beamed. Roach showed the students how to pour enough water to get the victim truly distressed but hopefully not kill them because there was nothing worse than killing someone before you got your information or fun out of them. 

Roach let each of his dozen or so students take a turn and watch how demoralized the victim became after a while. 

“Now I’ll show you going too far,” Roach said and kept pouring water over the cloth long after the man had stopped moving, “Now it’s too late. You can end it like this once you’ve got your information or feel free to use any other method. Any questions?” 

“Is it really that scary?” 

“Yes, here let’s do a little exercise, we’ll just put wet cloths over our faces and try to breath, we don’t want to torture each other,” Roach said. 

Roach demonstrated how to do it safely and then watched the students mess around with it. As he talked with the students afterwards Roach felt a little ill. He’d been messing around with the chilly water all day, maybe that wasn’t a smart idea to do waterboarding in the winter, and in such an unusually cold winter at that.

` Roach packed up his things and headed back to the inn. By the time he had finished putting things away he knew he was getting sick. Playing around with the cold water had been a very bad idea indeed. 

Roach let the others know he was going to lie down and probably wouldn’t be up to cooking dinner. He made himself some tea and Lucius said he would bring Roach some soup later. 

By nightfall Roach was racked with chills, he was shaking and couldn’t get comfortable and it felt like he was burning up. His throat felt like it was on fire and his lungs felt heavy and fuck it was all coming on so fast. 

Days passed and things only seemed to get worse. Roach was in and out and hot and cold and could barely breathe. The fever would not break no matter how many remedies the crew tried. 

Roach was shivering again and felt so weak he thought he might shiver himself to death when he felt like someone was in the room with him. He looked up and at first didn’t see anyone then he noticed a shadowy figure in the corner.

Izzy. 

“Oh no…” Roach managed weakly. 

“I’m sorry Roach,” Izzy said. 

Roach went in and out and the next time he opened his eyes Jim was looking at him and trying to get him to drink. 

“Izzy,” Roach managed. 

“Ah fuck,” Jim said, “I’ll let everyone know.” Over the next few hours everyone came in and Roach tried to say something to every one of them. It was exhausting just to stay awake, it was exhausting to breathe. It wasn’t long before it was too much to stay awake and Roach fell unconscious. 

Roach sat up in bed with a gasp and looked around; everything looked the same and he wondered for a moment if he had dreamed about being ill. Then he heard a soft sniffle and saw Frenchie wiping away a tear. 

“Roach,” Izzy said and Roach looked over at the man, or the spirit. Roach hadn’t realized how young Izzy had been when he died, it didn’t seem like it at the time but it was jaring that Roach looked so much older. 

“Time to go,” Roach sighed.

“Time to go,” Izzy said and led Roach forward

[redshiftsinger]

So, I disagree with almost everything here. I'll try to articulate why, and I hope you'll take this as intended, an alternative perspective, rather than as an attack, OP. You've clearly put thought into your analysis.

The first aspect that stands out as a point I disagree with is the idea that Frenchie's "bottle it up" strategy is supposed to be interpreted as The Best Way To Deal With Bad Things. I just think it's critiqued in subtext more than it is explicitly the way it is in s1 when Frenchie suggests "bottle it up" and is told "no, that's the worst thing to do".

Frenchie is "handling it well" in the sense of, he can comparmentalize and focus on survival. The rest struggle to eat because they're disturbed; Frenchie can put the disturbing things aside and finish his cake. But he's NOT the one who makes any moves to fix the bad situation. It's Jim and Fang who do that. They're the ones who take the risk of initiating a conversation with Izzy about how toxic things have gotten on the ship -- and they're able to do that because they're not bottling it up. Once that conversation is initiated Frenchie joins in, but if someone else hadn't made the first move he would most likely have continued to go along with the status quo, drifting around in dissociation.

Later, he repeatedly fails to speak up when handed the opportunity to intervene in Ed's suicidal spiral the way Jim and Fang intervened when Izzy started showing signs of distress. He's there for Ed's "impossible bird" speech, which is plainly a cry for help -- Ed is all but begging Frenchie to tell him it's ok to stop now, he just doesn't feel safe to say it outright. And he sort of tries to gently suggest that never taking a break doesn't sound healthy, but quickly caves and goes back to bottling things up and not talking about them, instead of pushing a little bit more the way Jim and Fang pushed Izzy to acknowledge that yeah, this shit's kinda fucked up and no one is having a good time!

Which doesn't mean Frenchie is to blame for Ed's spiral, but the juxtaposition of the two scenes shows the relative effectiveness of talking about things instead of repressing them.

A lot of the rest of the examples also seem to illustrate, to me, that not talking about things *doesn't make them better*. Lucius can't heal until he works out some of his stuff. It takes him most of the season to really get through it, but even after talking to Pete he's doing better. And sometimes it is important to take your time and not overwhelm your listener with too much too fast. That doesn't mean you shouldn't talk about it, but dumping everything on someone who isn't prepared can be a LOT. There's a healthy middle ground between saying every single thing on your mind out loud all the time, and bottling everything up never talking about it at all. And then he also talks to Izzy, and then he talks to Pete again. But the other thing that Lucius' arc shows is that just talking about it isn't enough. Talking without also spending time on processing is just traumadumping, not therapy. And what finally actually helps Lucius really start to move on with his life isn't telling everyone what happened to him, but hearing that thinking he was dead also affected Pete. He needed a conversation, not just an outlet to talk, but an opportunity to hear what other people also went through. And he needed a metaphorical kick in the pants to work on letting go and moving on instead of curling himself into a defensive ball around his victimization complex, because part of what was keeping him stuck was coming from inside the house.

In every case where people don't talk about things, the situation gets worse for them as a result, or remains bad when it could have been getting better. Ed runs away to be a fisherman instead of having a conversation, and it goes terribly, and he comes back to find that the Republic of Pirates has been attacked and maybe Stede is dead. He ends up regretting how he handled that. The fact that he's lucky and Stede isn't dead doesn't change that he very much did come to regret the decision to run away instead of talking about it. And when people finally DO talk about things, their situation improves -- possibly most dramatically illustrated by Anne and Mary. They're both frustrated with their lives and not talking about it, but when Mary finally blows up about "we moved to a fucking swamp to sell fucking antiques to fucking no one", once that's out in the open, Anne torches the place and they finally reconnect over the mutual realization that they don't have to keep doing that if it's making them both unhappy.

And Ed's outburst and stomping off to hide under a blanket isn't the end of the scene. It's a catalyst to move things along, to prompt Stede to realize that yeah, he really needs to give Ed some explanation. So Stede goes and talks to him, pushes through the initial resistance (the way Frenchie didn't, in Impossible Birds) and that conversation brings them closer together again.

I DO think the message could have come across more effectively if more time was spent on the conversations that finally start to fix the messes, but given the harsh runtime constraints they were working with, I think they did a surprisingly good job of making the point that talking about things is a crucial part of making things better.

And it's also still important to remember that the end of s2 was only meant to wrap up the second act of a three-act play before an intermission. It doesn't retroactively become a final resolution just because everyone got kicked out of the theater and the theater closed down instead so the last part of the narrative didn't get to be told.

Bottle It Up: the most tangible theme in OFMD s2

So looking at s2 through the (super fucked up) lens that Jim asking Frenchie “How are you handling all of this so well?” And Frenchie responding by saying he puts all the terrible things in a box in his mind and never opens it again was the lesson everyone was supposed to learn this season and like, that’s there in the text more than anything else and I hate that.

Frenchie is handling everything well because he’s putting it in the box and never addressing it again.

Izzy finally says he has love for Ed, everyone is worried about him, the atmosphere is toxic and suggests talking it through and Ed goes on deck and points a gun at everyone as he asks them to talk about it, and when Izzy finally does address the reality of things and speaks Stede’s name aloud he gets shot in the leg.

Lucius isn’t talking about what happened. Avoidant about the Rat Boy name at first, says he fell off the ship, can’t remember when he picked up smoking.

Stede asks Lucius to talk to him about what happened after he was pushed off the ship, and Lucius starts to and almost immediately Stede runs away saying to save the rest for Pete.

Lucius says he talks to Pete and Stede says “please tell me you held back on some of the darker stuff” and Lucius confirms he did because Pete got nauseous and started crying.

Lucius tells Stede he should look past the man he loves and examine all the awful things he did, but Stede brushes it off and doesn’t do that.

No one will tell Stede they killed Ed. (Arguably this is for their own safety as well but it fits the whole “we’re not talking about the hard stuff” theme so I’m including it)

Ed finds out Stede went home to Mary through Anne Bonny. Stede begins to try to explain but instead, Ed smashes his chair against the wall and walks off. They have a very brief conversation without mention that Stede was kidnapped by Chauncey then watched him die.

Ed gives his influencer non-apology that was clearly written by Stede to the crew, and everyone but Lucius and Izzy seem to have forgiven him. During the “apology” Jim talks about how it made them feel and Stede shushes them so Ed can keep not apologizing. Afterward, for some reason, Jim says immediately says “I thought it was pretty solid for him” Archie says that’s how it goes in situations like this, Roach has never heard an apology before so they’re all good apparently now.

Lucius pushes Ed off the ship but isn’t okay yet. We’re addressing the trauma here and trying to make it right (even if it’s in a messed up way); we’re finally talking about it directly, but Lucius isn’t okay after this.

Fang tells Ed he’s not mad at him because he got it all out of his system when they beat him to death.

The whole Lucius/Izzy exchange “A shark did this to me. Dangling my legs over the side of the ship, served me right too.” “Okay, that seems healthy. Using a bit of fiction to cover up your trauma.” “Not moving on is worse.” (Another point at which Lucius wants to resolve trauma and he’s told no, don’t talk about it)

Lucius is clearly coping poorly and tries again to talk to Pete about how he almost died and Pete says he should find him when he’s no longer thinking about his trauma (“find me when Blackbeard isn’t living rent free in your head”) and that Lucius should talk about how he lived instead. Lucius then seems to decide that he’s fine, proposes to Pete, and is seemingly okay after that. (5th point in the story when Lucius tries to talk about something to heal and is told no in some way, and here is when he finally seems to moves on and is played as “better” after this)

Izzy’s drinking a lot even after he’s not totally dysfunctional like at the end of ep4.

The only Ed apology to Izzy is “Sorry about your leg.” With no eye contact as he’s walking away. To which Izzy responds “Fuck off.” After Ed’s out of ear shot.

Stede suggests Ed can absolve himself of everything by “turning the poison into positivity” and selling his treasure he got during the time he was abusing the crew to buy party supplies. Stede later says at the party that yes, Ed has achieved turning the poison into positivity, though Ed has done nothing by throw money at the problem.

Stede ignores Ed’s warning about not being able to come back from killing in cold blood and kills Ned Low.

Stede is visibly upset and Ed goes to check on him and begins to start talking, but Stede wordlessly grabs him and slams him up against a wall and then they have sex (which Ed has requested to wait on) instead of talking about it.

Ed decides he’s leaving to become a fisherman because Stede is infamous now and Ed’s been wanting out of that life so there’s a brief disagreement where not much is said and then he leaves.

“I’m sorry I was such a dick.” Is the biggest apology we’ve gotten all season. It’s immediately dismissed as “you’re not a dick. Life’s a dick.”

No one in the crew seems to be mourning Izzy’s death and we as the audience seem expected to move on from it very fast. Avenging his death is proposed by Zheng but then it cuts to nope, we’re done with that and we’re inn keepers now instead. Put the terrible thing you’ve seen in the box and never open it again.

I’m definitely sure I forgot some of these and it felt at first that these were being set up to be played negatively because this is the don’t-bottle-it-up/healing-from-our-traumas show but that just doesn’t play out. Like so much of it’s either dismissed without reason, played as a joke, or framed as acceptable and the fact that I could pull so much more of this stuff out of the text than I could any other potential thematic element does has me just so baffled. I don’t know what to do with it.

[ladyluscinia]

Looks like the topic of the night for the Izzy Hands tag is relitigating the Navy plot vs the toe scene, so I guess I can throw out some thoughts on that.

I think these scenes are only comparable because they are both disproportionate responses to what the other person was doing at the time. They are both part of the overarching narrative of Edward and Izzy's relationship exploding (in order to make space for them to build back up a new dynamic) which is why overall there is no "true victim" between the two of them, but Edward's actions in 1x10 are still NOT a response to Izzy's actions in 1x09.

For Edward, maiming Izzy was not a justified action. First because maiming someone is generally just a cruel and uncalled for option - if he was a threat it would have made sense to kill him or send him away, and if he wasn't then don't maim him. And mainly because Edward is pretty clearly framed as in the wrong here. It is so weird to me how many people look at the Kraken sequence and go "Oh, well, murdering Lucius at the start was bad and horrifying, and marooning the crew at the end was bad and horrifying, and the Kraken is bad and horrifying overall, but that middle bit? With Izzy? That was a reasonable and justified use of force against someone who deserved it and maybe more."

What.

Edward maimed Izzy to reassert control over Izzy when he realized he wasn't ready to give that control up. It doesn't make sense as a threat response, and it wasn't even revenge because Edward stopped caring about the Navy thing as soon as he returned without Stede. He doesn't bring it up. In fact, he banters with Izzy and treats him the same as he did in the early eps. He's not mad at him for the Navy! That punch and the exchange before signing was the end of it for both of them. It's also the end of it as far as the story is concerned, because once they arrive at the school, all focus shifts to Stede and Edward's relationship beats. Them being trapped / pressed into service is solved by mugging a guy offscreen for a dinghy. Not exactly a serious threat or struggle. The toe scene is only in response to Izzy's words in the cabin, and Izzy's words did not warrant that.

Now in another show, the maiming + context would be a moral event horizon or pretty damn close to it, and Edward would be a violent monstrous character. In this show, violence has a distinctly handwavy quality and we can definitely forgive him for being out of line without having to pretend he wasn't. Also Izzy can probably get an anachronistic and instantly effective insert for his boot and not have his fighting ability crippled until it gets him killed, which does make the situation a bit better. Handwaviness can apply to injuries too (Lucius's finger).

So that's Edward in 1x10. What about Izzy in 1x09?

For Izzy, the Navy plot is an overreaction. I don't think anyone disputes this??? Like... I think it's fun that he tries to murder the mistress in the same way I think it's fun that Edward makes his breakup everyone's problem. I think the framing is a bit more serious in order to give Edward's romantic sacrifice some oomph, but it's still ridiculous to act like trying to kill Stede is a traumatic and borderline unforgivable act when Mary will settle on the same solution to her problems next episode. But no, I don't think Izzy was warranted in trying to kill Stede because Edward was upsetting him.

In fact, I think Izzy betraying Edward - not so much the murder plot specifically as just taking initiative to force Edward to choose when he was trying very hard not to (something he thought he had sidestepped in 1x06) - is a significant part of why he goes all in on Stede in an inauthentic way in 1x09 and gets so unexpectedly hurt, and why he overcorrects in 1x10. His disproportionate response here does drive the dramatic explosion of their toxic codependency just as much as Edward's does. It just isn't a literal "I hit you and you hit me back" situation.

Izzy forces Edward to choose, Edward chooses, it goes bad but Edward tries to stick to his choice, Izzy "accepts" the choice by rejecting the person Edward chose to be and threatening to leave, and Edward overcorrects to the worst possible version of the person who gets to keep Izzy.

And since this is as good a time to nitpick 1x09 reads as any... Izzy did also try to get Edward off the boat. That was a pretty significant thing that took up most of the plot of 1x08. Like I understand where you are coming from here about it being terrible to have to nearly watch Stede die, but Izzy very much did put a lot of planning into getting Edward off the boat before any of it.

People bring that up like it was Izzy's dastardly plan or that he callously dismissed that Edward would be upset by Stede's death, but, like, he knew in 1x06 that Edward wasn't thrilled and offered to take care of it. He wasn't trying to make Edward a captive audience. He was quite literally trying for the opposite and still scrambling to keep Edward entirely unharmed when it got screwed up. You can be pissed at him for trying to off Stede, but the "in front of Edward" bit was not intentional. (And acting like he put Edward in harms way is also kind of a reach, seeing as it would have been very easy in the show to, well, show that was a risk. Instead Edward being perfectly safe makes his romantic gesture more significant.)

So yeah. No abuser / victim dynamic here, but it's not because either of them "deserves" to be mistreated by the other when they are. And maybe stop morally justifying mutilation as punitive justice, because the show doesn't frame it that way and it would be kinda fucked up if it did.

[johannestevans]

hhhh I'm just

i love izzy to death obviously but it's driving me a little mental about how people refuse to acknowledge his harms even when writing from Ed's pov and I'm just like. really

like thinking about mental illness and neurodivergence in the text and how to be izzy reads as very autistic + anxiety whereas ed comes off as very ADHD and BPD

and people are perfectly willing to accept that Ed has ADHD when it means that Ed is stupid or needs to be managed, and even besides the stigma against personality disorders in general, absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Ed's erratic moods, constant spirals between depressions and obsessions, violent lashing out, difficulty to commit or make decisions etc... might also be symptoms

and it's so blatantly fucking racist

like people do it already with white men's autism all the time, where it's like a get out of jail free card to be a rigid asshole, and the implication being that white autistic men are super duper special boys who just don't KNOW they're bigoted, or are incapable of learning not to be bigoted because they're frightened of change and difference

its the self-infantilisation argument that's inherent to a lot of white "ignorance" but it's turned up to 11, bonus points if the label used is "aspergers" to really hammer home the eugenics

meanwhile literally everything ed does is used as a cudgel against him? acting like Ed is manipulative BY being depressed or BY being suicidal, but also like

his up and down moods are not a nebulous "crazy" to blame and attack him for - he's a heavily traumatised, unbelievably lonely and isolated, indigenous man navigating an extremely racist world in a position of command constantly threatened by violence, esp of white imperialism, but specifically by individual white ppl holding up or echoing that power structure

like? are you really surprised he's erratic? are you really surprised he constantly mimics other people's personalities and gives them whatever they seem to want from him? are you surprised he does performance after performance and is very careful about showing his "real" self?

like i think about when lucius snaps at Ed and is like "most people aren't cool like you are" when like, Lucius has seen Ed be vulnerable several times, but also when Ed is doing that routine it's ultimately him worrying about his reputation which is. directly a worry about his own safety and survival

and when Lucius says that it's a mini revelation because like... oh, he doesn't HAVE to be cool here? he can relax? he can enjoy it?

(but also... can he really? who else is watching? where are the cracks in this fuckery? what's will happen to him if he lets his guard down too long?)

like I'm screaming bc ed constantly and continuously faces rejection, because he comes off as very ND, because people find him "intense" and "intimidating" and "hard to read" and "distant" and all of that is multiplied a thousand fold by the specific ways in which people racialise him, associating him with violence, lacking capacity for pain and especially emotional pain, and putting his "craziness" down as like, the uninhibited "savagery" in him or whatever

like, bro!

and especially to then paint all of that and the ways he holds his position as unthinkably abusive when izzy's abuse is JUST from a victim's POV, but also then specifically within their interactions to act like Ed is victimising Izzy and there's not, you know? some mutual mental illness things going on, sure, but also its a racially charged relationship between a brown man and his violently white lieutenant?

like. i just don't see how that can interest you when all of that is part of the POINT of the SHOW