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maiface23 · 5 years ago

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SUBMISSIVE:

The Masturbation vs. Sex Debate

Note: If anyone listens to the VIEWS podcast, then you would know David said before he prefers masterbation over sex. That's where I drew inspiration for this fanfic for Sub!David. Also drew inspiration from @dd-imagines . I really enjoy Dom!David, so this was a new way of writing for me, This also might turn out long, so I hope you're ready, and I Hope you enjoy!

Warning: Smut, Fluff, Choking, Aggression

You've been with David for a while now. Time has flow, by your not really sure for how long. Maybe 6 months? Maybe more? Either way, the connection and chemistry you have with him is undeniable. You've done everything in bed with David that is possible.... So you thought... knowing everything about each other's bodies. Your relationship is just bliss.

One day you realized you havent been catching up in David and Jason's podcast. There was some shows you havent listened to before, shows that they made before you two became involved with each other.

You were bored, laying in your bed, wishing you went with David to New York. But you couldn't, So all you could do was wait for the time to go past untill everyone came back home.

You scroll though the shows, waiting for a title to catch your eye, when you finally find one, titled "$400,000 to quit drinking".

You start to listen, missing David's voice, comforting you as you lay alone, wishing he was there with you, holding you. Then something David states that catches you off gaurd.

David on VIEWS podcast- "I think masturbation is better"

Your eyes wide, feeling confused.

David on VIEWS podcast- "I just think- that- one- you know what you want the most... it's so convenient, you can do it whenever you want... You can do it where ever you want.... one part of your body helps out the other. It's almost like- kinda magical."

You gasped. You feel so offended, but you start to realize that this was before you guys got together. Maybe single David just thinks differently, and he changed his mind. Even having these thoughts, you are still upset. Am I not good enough? You think to your self. You honestly didn't even want to finish the show, you feel like you might just get more and more offended if you do.

You decide to distract your mind with other things, cleaning your apartment, listening to music, painting, anything to make you forget about that podcast, Waiting for David to be home.

Two days later:

You're waiting for David at his house, you let yourself in with the key he gave you. You were so excited to hug him, to kiss him. And also egar to ask him about that part in VIEWS. You're sitting on the couch, when you hear the door open and bags shuffling.

David- "Y/N...?" He called out, wondering if you made it to the house before him.

You jump up out of your seat and make your way to him quickly, David smiling wide as he sees you rushing to him. He drops all of his things to wrap his arms around your body, embracing you. He smells like your David, his warmth comforting your body. You pull away slightly so you can give him a kiss. You wrap your hands around his neck and pull him in, His lips taste like your David as well. You stop kissing and look up at each other.

David- "Hi." He says as he smiles

Y/N- "I missed you so much."

David- "I missed you too, I wish you would have been able to come with, but I'm glad you're here now."

You lean in and give him another passionate kiss. His lips so wet and soft, you really did miss him so much, but you're still thinking about what he said in his show. You start thinking about when would be the right time to bring it up.

Hours go by, you are all watching random stuff on TV while you lay on the cloud couch. You and David cuddling, Nat, on the other side eating mac and cheese, Jason making some joke about how much of a dork the guy on TV looks like. You really want to ask about the podcast, so you say fuck it.

Y/N- "So I was listening to the old podcasts..."

David backs up a little bit to get a better look at you.

David- " Yeah?" Waiting for you to elaborate

Y/N- "You think masturbation is better than sex?"

Jason cackles in laughter. Natalie stops eating and looks up and giggles.

Natalie- "Oooh David... you're screwed now." she says as she laughs

David smiles as his face gets red.

David- "Well... I said all that before we were together. I dont know... yeah, I- I think like- it can be better. Sometimes- I dont know."

David stumbles over his words, you know hes trying to make a point without hurting your feelings. You blush at the thought of David trying to be nice to you, but still hold his opinion as his own. Suddenly you're not as upset as you once were, but you get a good idea instead.

Y/N- "I think I'm gonna have to change your mind then." You smile

Jason- "Awww shit, Dave... looks like you're gonna be a lucky man tonight."

Everyone laughs

You shuffle yourself out of David's grip, standing up to move over near Natalie.

Y/N- "Well.... actually... No." You start to grin

David- "Come on Y/N, dont be upset."

Y/N- "Oh, I'm not upset. But I promise you, you're about to be."

The room goes silent, waiting for you to speak again, David's face looking very confused, not sure how to respond.

David- "Why'd you move away from me then?"

Y/N- "Cause I'm going to change your mind. For the next week, You are not allowed to touch me, unless I say so."

David's eyes widen

You lean in close, wrapping your grip around David's neck.

Y/N- "And if you touch me without permission, you will go longer and longer without my body, do you understand"

Jason and Natalie start dieing laughing, David almost loses his breath, instantly being turned on. David has always been the dominant one, this is something you both have not played with before. The sudden shift in control changes everything in that one moment. The power you feel over David, with holding your pussy from him. Suddenly, hes small beneath you, yours. In your hands, your toy, his Dom. For once, David being the Submissive.

5 days later:

Things have gotten pretty intense around the house. David tried talking you out of it a bunch of times, apologizing, but he was always a good boy. Not taking his chances on missing out on you. Always gets within arms reach, but never reaches. It's almost like he doesnt want the game to end. You can tell he likes feeling weak and helpless, not in control.

You've done little things here and there to make him whimper in desires, making him wanting you. Walking around the house in a thong and tight tshirt with no bra, skimpy dresses when u go out, making sure you bend down right in front of his face when you need to pick something off the coffee table, eating ice cream and popsicles seductively.

You're both sitting on the couch away from each other, you keep noticing David glancing over at you, missing you, missing your touch. You know you miss his as well, But you're having too much fun torturing him, making him your slave, following your rules. It was so exciting, even for David. You start to have another idea, hoping with what you have planned, it will push him over the edge.

Y/N- "I'm going to go take a bath."

David innocently looks up from his phone

David- "Okay, have fun."

You go straight to his bathroom, getting the tub ready, making sure it was filled with soap so it would be filled with bubbles. You tie your hair up so it doesnt become wet, taking off your shirt and your shorts, then your bra and underwear. You step in and instantly become relaxed. You lay back and enjoy yourself for a while. Playing with the bubbles once in a while, washing your face, pampering yourself.

Soon, you decide it was time.

Y/N- "Daaavid!" You shout, wanting him to come into the bathroom.

He walks in and smiles

David- "What's up?"

Y/N- "Can you help me out, I dont want to slip."

David becomes surprised, since this was the first time in days you asked him to touch you.

David- "Y-yeah... O-okayy"

He reaches out a hand, waiting for you to do the same. You wait a moment, until he locks eyes with you, you slowly stand up, letting the bubbles fall slowly down your wet naked body, falling down your tits perfectly, some soap staying stuck to your stomach, and legs, a goddess. You reach out an arm.

Y/N- "You can only touch my hand, NOTHING else, Do you understand?"

David drops to his knees, his face becomes pained.

David- "Oh my God, baby. I need you so badly, please. I'm so sorry, FUCK."

Y/N- "Touch me anywhere else and you will fucking regret it. Do you understand." You say with a smile

David's head drops.

David- "Y/N I said I'm so sorry, I promise I will ne-"

You cut him off.

Y/N- "Quite!" You yell

David instantly becomes silent. He really has mastered the art of being a slave.

Y/N- "No more whining, or I will give you something to whine about. And my name is not Y/N to you, its Mistress. Do you understand?"

David- "Y-yes.... I'm sorry"

Y/N- "Sorry what!?"

David smiles.

David- "I'm sorry.... Mistress."

He stands back up and extends his hand. You grab it and slowly step out, letting water drip on the floor, your eyes locked in together again, You decide to play with him a little more

Y/N- "Dont look at me until I tell you to."

David's face drops in seconds, and admires your body, aching for it. At this point he knows not to take any chances by prolonging his suffering, so he listens to every command like a good boy.

You take your towel, and try to dry off, David standing there looking at your body and at the floor. He doesnt even know what to do with himself anymore, hes like a child, waiting for direction.

Y/N- "Go sit on the bed."

By command, he turns on his heels and does exactly that. You hear him in the other room, shifting himself into his side of the bed. You put on your bra and underwear, leaving your clothes on the floor. You said you were going to make him suffer for a week, but at this moment, it feels right to reward him.

You walk into the bedroom, David looks up for a moment, but quickly looks back down to the floor. You walk towards him, your body inches from him

Y/N- "I think you've been a good boy, I think you deserve an award, dont you?"

David looks up at you and in your eyes, smiling, he reaches out and grabs your waist. You slap him across his cheek, wrapping your hand around his throat and pushing his back down on the bed.

Y/N- "Did I fucking say you could touch me, or look at me?"

David loses his breath once more

David- "N-no, No I'm sorry."

Y/N- "SORRY WHAT?"

David- "I'm sorry Mistress." He says as he closes his eyes and puts his hands over his head. You grin

Y/N- "look at me."

David does as hes told.

Y/N- "I'm not about to give you what you want, I'm going to give you what you need, do you understand?"

David- "Yes, Mistress"

You're straddling his lap with your hand around his throat. Your words echo straight to his dick, you can feel his hard cock trying to break free. You get up off him, he doesnt move a muscle, frozen, afraid of making the wrong move, he looks up at the ceiling, powerless. You start to un button his pants, and pull down his boxers, seeing his throbbing dick break free from the torture that is his clothing.

Y/N- "This is mine. This is for my enjoyment, do you understand?"

David- "Yes, Mistress, my cock is yours"

Pleased with his progress, you reward him by taking his size into your hand and into your mouth. David let's out a moan.

Y/N- "Do you like that, slave?" You say with a smile

David- "Y-yes, Mistress."

You start pumping him, faster and faster, you feel his cock twitching.

Y/N- "You better not fucking cum."

David- "Yes, Mistress"

You've never seen him like this, pained with pleasure, scared to react. The thought of any moment, you could get up and leave him there terrified his desires. He was aching for affection from you, he would do anything for you to please him, or for him to please you.

Y/N- "You're a good boy, arent you?"

David- "Yes Mistress, I'm a good boy, Mistress."

You continue to pump his dick, and torture it with your mouth. You started to be come aroused as well. You stop, and stand up.

Y/N- "Get up on the bed, all the way."

David follows his commands, sliding his way up, rest his head on his pillows near the head board, still looking up at the ceiling. You take off your underwear, and climb up onto the bed. You take off his tshirt, then straddle yourself onto David's lap, hovering over his wet, warm, throbbing dick.

Y/N- "Look at me."

David looks down at you with his beautiful brown eyes.

Y/N- "Do you want my pussy on your cock, slave" you say smiling

David smiles back

David- "Yes, Mistress"

Without hesitation, you drop down, letting his dick fill you up, you didnt even need to prepare for it, all this excitement has you dripping wet already. You put your hands on his chest and start to slowly bounce.

Y/N- "You have permission to touch me."

David swiftly grabs your waist, hard. The way it felt was like a weight was lifted from him, finally being able to get what he wanted.

You start to bounce faster, his hands keeping you steady, you take one of your hands off his chest and wrap it around his throat once more, your finger tips gripping tighter, enough so he could still breath. His eyes roll in the back of his head in pressure.

Y/N- "Are you feeling pleased, slave?"

David moans- "Yes... Mistress..."

You keep bouncing, faster and faster till you can feel yourself orgasming. You tilt your head back and ride out your high. Moments later, you feel his dick twitch inside you.

Y/N- "Tell me when you're about to come."

David- "Yes Mistress, I'm about to come Mistress."

You hop off of him, wrapping your hands and mouth around his cock so his load could fall down your throat. David moans as he finally gets the release hes been working so hard to get.

You lay down next to him. Both of you breathing heavily. Laying there in silence until you catch your breaths. David turns on his side to get a better look at you.

David- "I think I'm inlove with what just happened. I didnt know being so powerless felt so powerful. I think I'm gonna have to piss you off more often." he laughs

Y/N- "If that's how you feel, I'm really going to make you pay."

David- "Please make me pay, baby." he laughs

You reach over and wrap your fist around David's neck again.

Y/N- "Please make me pay, WHO?"

David smiles- "Make me pay..... Mistress."

#david dobrik #david dobrik fanfiction #david dobrik fanfiction smut #david dobrik imagine #david dobrik vlogs #david dobrik x reader #fanfic #sub!david

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cheddar-the-dog · 5 years ago

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b99 podcast episode 2:

relationship goals

@jake-and-ames and I have summarized what we think are the highlights of the second episode of the brooklyn nine-nine podcast. maybe those of you who can’t listen to the podcast for whatever reason can profit from it a bit

it’s under the cut because it’s quite long

[[MORE]]

Part 1 with David Phillips, Tony Nahar, Dirk Blocker, Joel McKinnon Miller

a season that’s focussed on Ensemble rather than singular performances

not filmed on stage usually but practical locations (rooms with walls)

3 cameras and their crews —> “single camera” style but multiple cameras that open opportunities to cross-shoot scenes

MEJ plays in the B99 softball team

they have 35 background actors of which 90% were there since s1

Scully and Hitchcock almost never have full storylines and often have punchlines or chime in (requires timing)

S7 spoilers around minute 14 but I blanked out tbh

Episode 12 of Season 2 The Beach House is a very significant episode for the cast and crew

Beach House Cold Open is where Holt spilled soup on his pants and Andy only needed one take for him to go into Holt’s office and spill soup on his own pants

Whole episode was originally Boyle story and his divorce but they went ensemble because it didn’t work

the Amy-Drink-Scale and 6-Drink-Amy (aka Gina’s Sasquatch) is elaborated throughout the episode (not revealed though if there is a 7-Drink-Amy)

Boyle’s borderline creepy lines are discussed around Minute 25

they spent 2 days shooting on location in Malibu and some of the cast stayed overnight and got to know each other more (Andy, Joel, Joe, Melissa and Chelsea and her then boyfriend now husband Jordan Peele)

it was so far away that on the first day when their call time was 7 AM they started shooting at 10:30 AM and it was hot but they had to pretend it’s winter

“Scully is a quintessential rennesaince man” - Joel McKinnon Miller

The bubbles in the hot tub were silent

there were lots of alts and the cast and crew just had fun and tried making each other break and corpse the scene - especially Andre

they intentionally made Holt apologize as an example of how a boss can behave vs how he would be expected to behave (Jake apologizing to him)

Part 2: Stephanie Beatriz, Laura McCreary, Luke Del Tredici

relationships (friendships, romantic relationships, bromances and Rosas coming out)

Steph doesn’t get recognized on the streets because of voice and mannerisms

in the beginning it was more focused on the Rosa/Charles relationship than Jake/Amy because Jake needed a lot of character work before they could think about getting them together/ him more fitting to Amy

Jake/Amy: pacing but also they don’t know how long they have, there’s no opportunity to really plan years ahead - if they would’ve know how long they have they would’ve held back longer with the romance but they knew from the beginning that they’re endgame

they try to avoid making Amy only “the wife”

“RIP Cheddar Number 3” - Laura McCreary

Rosa/Charles: they had Charles pining over Rosa in the pilot and according to Luke you repeat a lot of storylines in the beginning of a series because you’re trying to figure out who these characters are but as the show grew older so did the writers and eventually they realized it felt very inappropriate to not take no for an answer (Luke describes it as a “mistake” to not resolve it sooner)

Steph felt like it was inappropriate early on but didn’t have the courage to go to the writers and tell them how she felt because she was scared of losing her job and she didn’t know how things worked in that particular workplace bc she originally is a theatre actress

Charles and Rosa remain friends though and their relationship grows stronger. So much so that Rosa comes out to him first which Steph loved a lot

MEJ is still waiting for the vow renewal of Holt and Kevin (he pitched another idea during that episode)

Boyle/Peralta: McCreary said that because Jake can’t really mess up at his job because of stakes and he’s not perfect they made him mess up a lot with Charles’ friendship (also the ladies but mainly Charles)

Rosa had a good amount of relationships

“She’s trying. I don’t know if she’s living it but she’s trying.” - Steph

Rosa/Adrian: very opposite characters and she described Jason abd Pimento respectively as loose canons. Mantzoukas also taught Steph how to relax more in scenes (she’s praising his improv skills a lot as well as “he’s like a thorough bred dressage horse but kinda like crazy” - Stephanie Beatriz)

Rosa/Marcus: first on screen relationship that the writers used to get a Rosa/Holt dynamic going

Steph played Rosa queer from the beginning (she built on talking about Tonya Harding being hot for example)

the coming out episode: Steph was involved in creating the 99th episode and the coming out of her character a lot - she wanted Rosa to use the word bisexual repeatedly and the language that was used is a lot of what she had to hear personally. She talks about bi-erasure as well

The writers wanted to incorporate real life experiences into their show more to make it authentic and it was important to them to involve Steph and not just go for it because they had nobody who could speak for her specific experience

they emphasize the complexity of the characters and not just token diversity for brownie points. also different takes on classic masculinity tropes (a subject that repeats often also in Episode 1)

it’s meant to be a socially relevant show but they want to normalize the subjects they target and don’t make it 30 minutes of education and “here’s everything that’s wrong with x”

Terry/Sharon: a stable loving marriage between two black people

“Title of your sex tape” is a favorite joke, and since the series starts with established dynamics everyone in the squad is cool with joking about it/ it doesn’t feel inappropriate in their workplace because they’ve known each other for quite a long time

there’s a cut scene from the s6 finale where the vulture heard Jake say “title of your sex tape” and stole it to use himself which Jake in return hated more than anything he did, ever. And a similar instance (also a cut scene) where Hitchcock heard it and stole it as well

#b99 podcast #b99 the podcast #b99 #brooklyn 99 #brooklyn nine-nine the podcast #brooklyn nine nine #brooklyn nine nine podcast

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goddessdoeswitchery · 4 years ago

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Hellenic Polytheism 101: Pillars of Hellenic Polytheism, Kharis A Transcript

The episode can be found on various podcast platforms, including anchor, breaker, stitcher, spotify, google podcasts, overcast, pocket casts, radio public, and on YouTube.

Welcome to today’s episode of Hellenic Polytheism 101, where we will be discussing the Pillar of Hellenic Polytheism, Kharis. Again I want to remind you that the Pillars of Hellenic Polytheism were never actually a “thing”. Unlike the 10 commandments, the pillars were never taught as a set of rules that everyone knew by the name “Pillars of Hellenic Polytheism”, or any variation thereof. What modern day practitioners of Hellenic Polytheism call “The Pillars” were essentially religious and cultural practices that were taught by family and friends via every day practices. The pillars were an essential part of the culture of Ancient Greece, taught to them the same way customs like tipping, saying “bless you” at sneezing, and the now-common practice of wearing a mask everywhere are taught to us today. In recreating Hellenic Polytheism for the modern age, the Pillars grew out of a need for a set of guidelines to help us recreate a very old religion. Kharis is the reciprocity inherent in Hellenic Polytheism, a devotional act for the Theoi with hope a return favor in kind. It is also so much more than a transactional behavior. Its not bribery, its not a quid pro quo. At the same time, it is not the Christian act of praise worship.

One of the most common actions as a Hellenic polytheist is devotional acts. Whether it be offerings, prayers, hymns, or the increasingly common Devotional Actions (like beauty routines for Aphrodite, studying for Athena, singing for Apollo, housecleaning for Hestia, etc); we worship by engaging in acts of devotion. Oftentimes, that act of devotion is also accompanied by a request. This act of devotion is not a bribe. This is an offering, and a plea. The deity in question can respond or not, it won’t change the fact that we made the offering and it shouldn’t affect how we give in the future. We give without the expectation of getting something in return, as an act of worship and of thanks for everyday blessings. We give to just give, and a lot of the times, the deity or deities in question will respond. We then give in thanks, and then they give to us. We give in thanks, they give to us and so continues the circle of praise and of blessing. This circle of reciprocity is Kharis.

And yeah, I completely understand how confusing that would be, so let’s try using some more relatable examples. I know not everyone will be able to relate to these examples, so there will be a few of them, and hopefully one of them will resonate enough that the concept of Kharis will become less confusing.

The first example I will use is of a couple. Let’s call them Kate and Ashley. They are very much in love. Kate is out grocery shopping and next to the checkout line is a display of flower bouquets. One of them has roses and lilies, Ashley’s two favorite flowers. So Kate grabs that bouquet and places it in a vase on the table for Ashley to see when she gets home. Kate isn’t getting the flowers for a birthday, or anniversary, or holiday. These aren’t apology flowers. These aren’t get well soon flowers. They’re the best kind of flowers. These are “Just Because I Love You” flowers. That night at dinner, Kate asks Ashley to take the trash can to the curb before bed and Ashley does so. The flowers weren’t payment for the favor of taking the trash to the curb. The flowers and the request may have come at the same time, but one wasn’t required for the other. The next morning, Kate makes Ashley breakfast in bed and Ashley starts Kate’s car so it’s warmed up and defrosted before Kate goes to work. Both are acts of love that aren’t reliant on each other. Now, say this cycle continues constantly. They do each other favors, they get each other small tokens, for the rest of their relationship. No one but the most cynical would say that they have a transactional relationship. Their tokens aren’t required for favors, and their favors aren’t required for tokens. Their actions are out of devotion to each other. That’s an example of how Kharis works.

Another example, this time between family members. My sister, my mom, and I have lived together for a lot of our lives. As adults, we have lived together for the last 5 years. My mom has a tendency to not eat, and there have been times when I’ve sent her a pizza while she’s at work, because I know then that she will eat. The food is an act of love, a way to show I care. When she responds in kind by cooking dinner for the house the next day, it is not a payment for the pizza. It’s a continuation of the circle. When I was off work for 3 weeks, I cleaned the whole house, reorganized their closets to be easier to navigate, and cleaned out the cabinets and cupboards. Its another way I show I care. My sister usually watches the kids all summer long, and my mom and I will get her flowers, as a way to say thank you. Every day of our lives as a family, we show love by doing favors for each other and getting things for each other. The favors are not a payment for the things and the things are not a payment for the favors.

Hopefully that explains what Kharis is a little better, so we can go a little deeper into what it means as a worshipper, as someone who calls themselves a Hellenic Polytheist.

Now, remember how I said that the pillars weren’t exactly a thing, and instead were a modern invention to assist those who weren’t raised in Ancient Greece with learning the customs and cultural behaviors that were common knowledge in Ancient Greece? Let’s keep that in mind. On a historical note, Kharis required something real. Having faith and good thoughts was not a part of the reciprocal circle that is Kharis. It required something real, and in Ancient Greece that did not mean devotional acts like making playlists. It meant something solid, offerings, like libations, food, incense, coins, seashells, and other solid, real items. If you have an altar, think about what you leave on it. On mine, I’ve got an incense holder, coins left at the foot of the statue of Hermes, corn from the field next to us, a nature ball with acorns and leaves and flowers in it, devotional drawings, fortunes from fortune cookies also at the foot of Hermes’ statue, dried roses and lilies in an empty wine bottle, seashells, pins, a book of myths, and a plate and cup where bread, oil, seeds, fruit, wine, and other food offerings can be left. Some of these are permanent, some of them get removed as they go bad. When I light incense and pray, when I leave food, when I leave seashells or coins or fortunes, I’m engaging in my part of the reciprocal circle that is Kharis. That means, historically, offering something real that goes above and beyond simple faith.

Now, not everyone can do that. Not everyone has the ability to have an altar, and not everyone can afford to burn incense everyday, and not everyone has the time to bake bread everyday. Now, that doesn’t mean that someone who lacks those abilities, or doesn’t have that time can’t engage in the reciprocal relationship that is Kharis. Remember, a huge part of practicing Hellenic Polytheism is bringing ancient worship into the modern world. Devotional acts are something real. You can offer a devotional act to the Theoi as your part of the Kharis. I’ve seen some stunning works of art created in devotion to the Theoi. I’ve heard songs wrote in devotion. I’ve read some deeply moving poetry. And I’ve seen prayers, prayers written with such devotion and love that they could bring you tears. Those actions are fully capable of being classified as part of the circle that is Kharis.

Kharis is not just actions, its a relationship. Much like how Xenia was a way of life ingrained into the culture of Ancient Greece, so too was Kharis. All the rites and rituals, sacrifices, prayers, hymns, offerings, everything that was offered to the Theoi; it came from the understanding that a relationship had to be built and maintained. You couldn’t just say your prayers and call it a day, you lived with the Theoi, and dealt with them every single day. Everyday, you had the opportunity to build the relationship, and the expectation that you would was built into society. Indeed, the concept of Kharis was so built into society that offerings and sacrifices were a part of their stories. Examples can be seen in many myths, plays, and epic poems from them. The reciprocal nature of Kharis is shown in the Illiad, the Odyssey, and the writings of Aristotle.

I’ve learned that Kharis can be hard to understand, especially when you’ve grown up in a society where the love of a deity is just…..constantly there. Kharis is the idea that the love of our deities is not unconditional, and our love for them need not be unconditional as well. We don’t have that relationship with our gods that is bondless. We build a relationship with them, and they build one back. That, to me, is one of the appeals of Hellenic Polytheism. The relationship is a reciprocal one built up over time, using something that is definable, real, an offering that you can hold and see. So, we give, they give, we give, they give, until you’ve built a solid foundation for a solid relationship. That relationship, built out of Kharis, is what makes the worship we engage in so beautiful.

Thanks for listening to today’s discussion of Kharis. For today’s episode, I relied on the Illiad, the Odyssey, Kharis: Hellenic Polytheism Explored by Sarah Kate Istra Winter, The emotions of the Ancient Greeks: Studies in Aristotle and Classical Literature by David Konstan, and the Center for Hellenic Studies. You can always find a transcript of this and other episodes on my tumblr blog at goddessdoeswitchery.tumblr.com, as well as a link to the sources I used. Feel free to ask any questions, and don’t forget to tune in on September 6th, when we will be discussing Arete.

#transcript #hellenic polytheism #hellenic polytheism 101 #pillars of hellenic polythiesm #kharis

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2am-euphoria · 5 years ago

Note

Asking you for writing advice since I look up to your fanfic writing so much!

Aww! Thank you! I’m not a perfect writer by any means, but I’d love to share what helps me write:

-My dad used to tell me I was a good writer because I loved reading. I read a lot growing up and I still do now, though admittedly the only fiction reading I get to do these days is other people’s fanfictions (unless someone has suggestions for fiction books, IF SO SEND THEM MY WAY). I read a lot of nonfiction true crime that feels like fiction though, in the way it’s written- I’ll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara and The Stranger Beside Me by Ann Rule are two favorites. And I read a lot of clinical reports, which help me remember to grammar and spell-check when writing fanfiction.

-I also get inspiration from screenwriting. Quentin Tarantino and David Fincher are masters at their craft.

-I’m big into the “show, don’t tell” aspect of creative writing, which is also a huge part of screenwriting. I can’t remember where I read this, but there’s a quote somewhere that says something like “don’t treat your readers like they’re clueless.” I know my readers don’t need to get everything explained directly to them, so I try not to write matter-of-factly whenever I can. This is still something I’m working on, though!

-Do as much research as you have time for. I use books, reputable websites (e.g. I’ve downloaded a booklet from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for Butterflies Out of Reach), reputable podcasts (e.g. In the Dark from APR Reports) and other sources for research on facts.

When I’m researching personal/subjective experiences, however, then I dabble in more laid-back sources. I read a lot of FWB turned lovers stories all over the web for Heart or Hospital (I’m too damaged for FWB so I’ve never been in one myself lmao)

-I like to go back to my favorite shows, books and movies to understand what I loved about them when I’m trying to write. I loved how Mindhunter gave me chills, and I realized it was because of the unsettling dialogue and Fincher’s “show, don’t tell” technique. I used that as inspiration for Sunrise and Your Sins.

-I don’t think this is a good idea for everyone, but I like to incorporate my own personal experience into what I write-just be careful. Sunrise and Your Sins got a little personal for me; Malcolm’s C-PTSD and related depression, guilt and ideations in the story drew much on my own experiences as a survivor of childhood and adult trauma. Using my experiences helped me tap into the emotional aspects of the story. If you feel like you’re getting too close to something in your writing, though, step back-take a break from writing it, talk to someone, and find a book/movie/show that you can draw on instead. The movies Ordinary People (which is also a good book!) and Good Will Hunting can help, for instance.

-I get a lot of compliments on my dialogue... Which is the hardest for me to give advice on. It just...feels natural to me when I write dialogue? A lot of it comes from watching shows with great dialogue (COUGH Mindhunter COUGH)... I also listened to a podcast that talked about each character in a dialogue having their own goal. E.g. in Sunrise and Your Sins, Ch. 6:

I wondered...” He murmured. “I’m glad. Here’s the thing, though: I don’t want you to be with me if I’m a killer. You don’t need this-”

“What do you mean, ‘this?’ I want all of you-”

“If I have to stand trial, when I don’t even remember-”

“Malcolm, I don’t care!”

He scoffs. “You, a cop, having a homicidal boyfriend-”

She tries to take his hands in hers. “You’re not a killer, though-”

“But what if I am, Dani?” He jerks away from her. “Can you prove that I’m not a murderer right here, right now?"

Malcolm’s goal in this dialogue is to convey that though he has feelings for Dani, he’s giving her (and inadvertently, himself) excuses as to why they shouldn’t be together, because internally he’s battling with guilt and distrusting his memories. Dani’s goal is to convey that she doesn’t give a crap about any of these excuses; in her eyes, these excuses don’t matter. But to Malcolm, these “excuses” do matter. Therefore, Malcolm and Dani are on two separate tracks of thought, even if they’re discussing the same thing (being together), and there’s tension in this conversation because of it.

^I hope that helps?

-Finally... If you’re writing creatively for fun like I do, don’t sweat it too much. I write fanfiction as a release from the chaos and burnout I regularly experience as a master’s student. I make no money off of my works, own no royalties, have no sponsors. Nothing I’m writing is saving the lives of the people I care for. If I make a typo, forget to stay consistent in my tenses, write an ungrammatical sentence, get a fact wrong? I apologize, and I’ll edit it when I can but also oh well-as long as I’m not harming anybody, it’s not the end of the world. I barely edit before I post, which is why you guys often see an accidental ‘(ITAL)’ (the reminders I put in a Word Doc to italicize in HTML when I upload to AO3) left in here and there, or a spelling error, or inconsistent tense changes (present and past tense? Those are totes the same, right?)... I admit I do go back and edit my fics often, but I try not to get wrapped up in making everything immaculate. It’s just fanfiction, not a published story, and I hope both writers and readers alike understand this!

This was an annoyingly long post lmao, I’ll go tack in a “Read More” to split things up. Thanks for your support, Anon, and I hope something in this post helps you!

#a boring treatise on writing-by Caroline #::asks #::anon #I’m rambling I’m sorry I do this SO FREAKING EASILY GAH #prodigal son fanfic #prodigal son fanfiction #fanfiction #AO3 #::myfics #::advice #::writingadvice #::CarolTalks

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zanesgirlfriend · 6 years ago

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Show Up | David Dobrik & Jeff Wittek

Description: The day after a party where the reader cheated on David with Jeff.

Disclaimer: the format is a little weird bc i had their argument in between the story, but i liked the way it came out, if it gets confusing read the normal print first and the italics second.

Requested?: Yes by @samanthaaaa18 : an imagine where the reader is dating David and cheats on him with Jeff

with additional ideas from @obesionoffandoms

A/N: I based this off of a song called "Show Up" by Catey Shaw, the lyrics seemed to fit with the theme of the story sooo. Also I think this is possibly one of my favorite things ive ever written wow okay thank yall for requesting this, enjoy.

_______

Natalie loved to tease David and Y/n about their relationship. It was one of the only perks of being in the house when they had sex. She always made it seem like an inconvenience, loving to hear their embarrassed apologies. Y/n should have paid attention to this teasing, for remembering it could've saved her relationship with David.

Dizzy. She was dizzy in the best way, and the tingles moved through her whole body. She usually never drank this much, and David knew that. He decided just to let her go wild in the saftey of his house. She couldn't do anything dangerous in his house, right?

"How did any of this happen?"

The alcohol made her horny. She wanted someone, anyone, to do nasty things to her. David was the first option, and should have been the only option.

"This wouldn't have happened if you would've just fucked me!"

He didn't want to take advantage of her, and besides, being drunk wasn't attractive. He needed to edit, his job comes first.

"I was busy! I didn't want the vlog to be late!"

He didn't want to stay up all night again. It was tiring. He wanted to upload before sunrise.

"The vlog is always late! Maybe if you would pay more attention to me I wouldn't feel the need to get wasted!"

She wanted attention and he refused to give it to her. He stayed in the living room editing until 6am. He had his headphones on, and didn't hear a thing. Natalie did.

"I should be able to trust you around my friends without worrying that you'll fuck them by accident!"

Everyone slowly trickled out of the podcast room, returning home one by one. David assumed Jeff had left with someone else. So when he went to bed, and Y/n wasn't in it, he was fine to leave her passed out somewhere else alone without even checking on her.

"Maybe if you would've came to check on me, even just one time, you could've forced me to go to sleep or sober up."

She and Jeff were naked, tangled beneath a Vlouge blanket. David's printed face smiled at them. They had both gotten what they needed before blacking out. When she woke up, the hangover was intense. Her head pounded as she tried to make sense of what was happening. The feeling of regret ached through her whole body.

"Why is it always my responisbility? Why is it always my fault?"

She woke Jeff up, forcing him to put clothes on before he fell back asleep. She went to the bathroom and cried.

"If you would show up to our relationship once and a while it wouldn't be your fault. It's like you're constantly running a marthon, but you never cross the finish line. You've fixed up a beautiful car and then you never drive it. The work was done, but you didn't show up, so I left."

She was up all morning, just sitting in the living room, staring at the blank screen of the TV. She watched Jeff leave without saying a word. She faked a smile as Natalie passed through the living room. She faked small talk as David sat next to her. She thought about how fucked up their relationship was. How he paid attention to her in the beginning, and built this beautiful relationship, but now its stagnant. It hasn't grown or moved in a while. She is always second in his mind, when really she should be first.

"Okay, then fucking leave."

She held back tears from her eyes as she realized she's been done with this relationship for a while. David didn't notice the how red and puffy her eyes were.

"I did, David. I've been fucking gone. You're just too far up your camera's ass to notice."

Natalie entered the room, sitting on the couch opposite the broken couple. "Can you two please try to stay in your bedroom next time? You kept waking me up with all of your moaning." Natalie waited for their cheeks to turn red and for them to say sorry. She quickly realized that something was wrong.

"You know I fucking love you, right?"

David turned his gaze to Y/n. This time he noticed the tears as they poured out of her eyes. His heart shattered, realizing what she'd done.

"No. You don't love me. Even if you did, how the fuck would I know?"

His voice cracked as he asked her who it was. "Jeff." She whispered.

"Why haven't you talked to me about this before? Why do I only find out about your feelings after you go and ruin everything?"

He got up and went to his room, leaving Natalie to watch her bawl her eyes out.

"David, I've tried to tell you! You never want to listen! I've tried to save this relationship countless times and you haven't even noticed anything was wrong with it!"

She got tired of crying. She was mad. David's door burst open and the argument started.

"I'm sorry."

#david #david x reader #david dobrik x reader #david dobrik imagine #david dobrik #david dobrik imagines #jeff #jeff wittek imagine #jeff imagine #jeff x reader #jeff wittek #jeff wittek x reader #vlog squad #davids vlogs #vloge squad imagines #vlog squad imagine #vlogsquad natalie #natalie mariduena

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leupagus · 6 years ago

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I’m just a lovey-dovey bitch

More musician AU, because I wanted an excuse to send these losers to Nebraska and @broadlybrazen wanted some drunken handstroking, and I’m easy like Sunday morning.

Through some combination of magic and Stevie — “I’m hoping I had something to do with it,” Patrick says mildly when David finally gets hold of him, words tumbling out like so many dropped cards — Patrick Brewer gets invited to play at the Maha Festival. On the main stage, even if it’s an early set.

There’s been buzz about a long-shot nomination for Best New Artist, which he’s been encouraging as much as humanly possible between managing the growing entourage that travels with them and managing Patrick, who still wears his shitty Costco jeans — “I put you down on my card, if you want to go back sometime,” Patrick’s eyes big and brown and totally fucking with him — and brings the fringed vest on the bus to use as a threat if David gets too bossy.

“I’m supposed to be bossy,” David protests as they pull off 80 just past Council Bluffs. “I’m your boss.”

Patrick smiles at him. “Do I need to get you another copy of The Rights of Man?”

“OK we’re both Canadian, so you need to stop with that,” David says, and Patrick threatens him with the fringed vest again.

Despite this the Maha set goes off without a hitch; Patrick plays the single, a few others from the album they’re hoping to push in the next few months, and some song about tractors that David’s never heard of but the crowd seems to love. People come up to David with smiles instead of sneers, to leave a number, talk over collaborations, get some small piece of Patrick that they can use. David’s still a relative neophyte in this industry, compared to Stevie or Jocelyn or hell, even Roland, but this part is very familiar.

By the time Patrick’s done signing and selfie-ing and listening to earnest infants tell him how much they love him, David’s vacillating between pride and a sick dread in his stomach. Patrick Brewer is someone now, someone that tiny children adore and that security guards recognize and that gets invited to festivals and if David’s any good at this he’ll keep being more and more of a someone, until he’s too much of a someone for David to hold onto. And that was the plan, that’s what everyone agreed on going into this. The Roses sell the company and get back to some semblance of their old life, everyone goes their separate ways. This is exactly what David used to want.

They end up at a bar next to the hotel they’re staying at, one of those basement-type claustrophobic affairs with sports on every flatscreen and flatscreens on every wall. “Reminds me of the Glockenspiel,” Patrick says, sliding onto a stool.

“The what now,” David says, sitting next to him.

Patrick smiles. “The bar where we met, remember? The open mic night.”

“Oh god, that place had a name?” He makes a face and Patrick laughs.

There are three other patrons in the entire bar and the bartender looks like she’d rather be killing a deer with her bare hands, but she gives Patrick some local brew and David an italian soda with minimal glaring. Patrick notices the drink and his eyes narrow, but he just talks about the festival and where they’re going next: Kansas City, then Austin and Houston, concerts alongside radio interviews and podcasts and a few other social media “events” that Alexis keeps texting him about.

The conversation meanders, like most conversations with Patrick do; there’s another argument about going to see a game while they’re in Kansas City, because Patrick’s love of baseball is deeply nerdy but also weirdly sentimental and he’s convinced somehow that if only David watches a game, he’ll become some sort of convert. This devolves into a discussion of the seventh-inning stretch, which David insists sounds dirty and Patrick insists is because David’s deeply disturbed. Stevie’s new boyfriend gets mentioned and they agree that he’s not good enough for her, although David thinks that’s mostly because no music critic is good enough for anyone and Patrick seems to think it’s because he’s not attentive enough to what she wants.

“If I let that kind of thing stop me from dating, I’d still be a virgin,” David says, signaling for another soda.

Patrick snorts, then hiccups and blinks. “I think I’m drunk,” he says, thoughtfully.

David frowns as he does the math. “You’ve only had—“ a thought occurs to him. “Patrick. Did you eat anything before the show?”

Patrick’s blush makes David relieved that he’s stone-cold sober, because otherwise this night would end really badly. “I definitely thought about it.”

“This is why I can’t leave you alone for a minute,” David mutters, and waves at the bartender. “Hi! Yeah, do you sell food of any kind? A burger or some sort of grilled cheese situation?”

The bartender looks like she’s fantasizing about gutting that deer. Or maybe him. “We’ve got pretzels.”

“Great. We’ll take some.” He tries smiling at her but she’s too terrifying to make it convincing, so he ends up kind of grimacing as she trundles off. Next to him, Patrick is laughing.

“Never knew I’d cause you this much grief, did you?” he says, leaning his head on his hand, half-sprawled out on the bar. They should’ve gotten him drunk for that last photoshoot, had him lean against a bar or a pool table, loose and smiling and color spread down his neck.

“Oh, I did,” he says instead of saying any of that. “That’s why I didn’t want to sign you in the first place.”

Patrick’s jaw drops, outrage in every curve of him. “You what?”

David shrugs and takes a sip, keeping his face bland. Moments like this, where he can fuck with Patrick, should be cherished like the rare jewels they are. “Stevie talked me into it. I thought anyone who drank Red Mountain wasn’t going to be worth the hassle.”

Patrick laughs again. “Little did you know.” He looks around, although he doesn’t seem to be taking in the depressing, dingy decor. “It’s funny, you know. I wake up and keep expecting today to be the day where it’ll get interesting.”

“‘Interesting’?” David echoes.

“Not interesting,” Patrick amends, patting his elbow in drunken apology. “I mean it’s just — work, you know? Which is great, I like work, and this beats my old cubicle any day of the week. I guess it just doesn’t feel… like anything’s happening.” Patrick shrugs and takes another drink.

David squeezes his eyes shut so he doesn’t have to watch Patrick fellate a bottle. “You just performed on the main stage at Maha,” he says. “Last week we shot a music video with Zia Anger. I’m pretty sure three different girls asked you to sign their breasts tonight. Things are happening—“

“I know,” Patrick says, putting his hand on David’s wrist this time. “‘m sorry, I don’t mean — I’m grateful, David. Really.”

It would be a spectacularly bad idea to ask him how grateful, and in what ways he’d be willing to express that gratitude. “You’re welcome,” he says instead, trying to sound flippant and failing miserably, if Patrick’s smile is anything to go by.

Patrick is still touching his wrist; he turns David’s hand over, palm up, and runs his fingers across his lifeline. “Have you been taking palm-reading classes from Twyla,” David says, too high-pitched. He tries pulling away but Patrick’s pulls back, his brow furrowed in concentration as he slowly spins one of David’s rings, the one he perches on the second knuckle of his middle finger whenever he has to go on tour with Patrick.

“It’s so strange,” Patrick says. The callouses on his fingers catch on David’s skin. “You do all this work — I see you working, all the time — but you’ve got the softest hands I’ve ever seen. Even though they’re strong and really big. You have big hands. And strong. But really soft. Do you put something on them?”

“Um,” David replies, cleverly.

The pretzles arrive with a clatter. “I’ll put it on your tab,” the terrifying bartender says and leaves.

“You should eat these,” David says, trying once more to get his hand back. Patrick makes a very unsettling pouty face and holds tighter. “Patrick—“

“David,” he replies, voice low and those big eyes looking at him and David hates everything about his life, every individual thing.

#schitt's creek #ficcage of interest #david/patrick #schitt records #I can't decide if they get interrupted by a phone call or if David just spills his soda #either way: more pining and wistful eye contact pls

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dream-beyond-the-fantasy · 5 years ago

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Saturday at GalaxyCon Raleigh

I was too exhausted to post on Saturday, so I will try to recount everything now.

My cousin Alexis and I left out at a little after 7 am, making a few stops (atm, gas, Starbucks). We took back roads instead of taking the interstate. Still a roughly two hour drive, but it was scenic and low traffic. We talked about favorite Tim Curry movies and horror movies (good vs. bad, remakes) and listened to some of her favorite podcasts during the long drive. Parking wasn’t a problem and we ended up arriving like fifteen minutes before the doors were meant to open. There was a huge line that we had to wait in because there were so many attending on Saturday and they weren’t opening doors for anyone unless you were con staff or a vendor. The waiting in line wasn’t too bad; it was mostly the people with VIP or 4 Day badges who were whining that they couldn’t get in yet. As our line got closer to the building, I spotted @boxofficequeen2416 and said hello. Thankfully, it wasn’t too hard to find the pre-registration desk or a bathroom.

Our first stop was the Exhibition Room. We decided to walk the outside first and work our way in before trying to find the celebrities and Tim Curry photo op line. God, it was so fucking crowded and suffocating. We saw how long Curry’s line was and decided to wait a few hours, checking out out other celebrities.

Our first stop was Chris Sarandon, as he was on the end and was a main draw for my cousin. She had planned to do just an autograph, but decided to do the combo. Alexis got her Jack Skellington Funko Pop figure signed. When he asked her name, Chris mentioned that he has a daughter named Alexis. He also asked if he could put his arm around her in the table photo.

My first stop was Barry Bostwick, as he had hardly anyone in his line. I did the autograph/table photo combo. I brought something to be signed by him. It was an oversized movie postcard that came with my Cult Films textbook from college. Barry hadn’t seen anything like it and had to take a picture of it with his phone. He signed it “Dammit Kristi, I llove you!” He took two selfies with me. He was super sweet. He had asked me what I went to college for (Media Studies). When I told him that I didn’t get a job in that field mostly because I didn’t know what I wanted to do, he was very kind and told me that it was okay and that I would find something that I was suited for.

My next stop was Daphne Zuniga. Out of all the photos for her to sign, there was only one for Melrose Place. Can you believe that? One of the two roles she is most famous for and only one photo for it! Naturally, I had to get that autographed. I also told her that I was currently watching the show and had just watched an episode that morning. She asked what season I was on. I told her that it was the third season and I think it was maybe the nineteenth episode of the season. Daphne couldn’t even remember what had happened in that season. That struck me as a bit odd, since she was only in the first four seasons. I told her that Jo was pregnant that season.

Next up was selfies with Kristy Swanson. She was really sweet and patient while I tried to get my phone ready. She took four pictures with me. I told her that we shared the same name, but one letter different.

After the panel was over, I met boxofficequeen2416 again. I really wanted to join her for the Anthony Michael Hall Q&A. But I knew my cousin was waiting for me. We were going to try and get into the Tim Curry line. No go, the staffer said try again at 2:45. So, I got in line to get an autograph from Jonathan Frakes. It didn’t look so bad, compared to how it was earlier in the day. OMG, I was in line for a fucking hour! My cousin tried calling me three times and texted twice while I was in line and I was worried that con staff would freak out because I had a phone out. It honestly wouldn’t have been so bad if it wasn’t for VIPs and their “fast lane”. Damn line jumpers, ugh. But Frakes is such a sweetie who loves to talk to everyone getting an autograph and/or selfie. Sadly, that also makes things take longer. I got my DVD cover of Star Trek: First Contact signed by Frakes. He starred in and directed that film. He told me that it was is favorite movie.

I went over to Anthony Michael Hall’s booth, as there was hardly anyone there. I had my DVD cover for The Breakfast Club signed. He was really nice. He shook my hand and thanked me for coming. When he was about to sign, he asked how I spell my name, as there are about twenty different ways. I got compliments on my shirt, which I told him I wore just because I found out he was coming and that it has been my favorite movie for years.

We walked around a little more. Alexis bought some things for herself and a Bucky print for a friend. I found the Bard’s Tower booth and immediately spotted Timothy Zahn. They did free signings! I had Heir to the Empire signed by him. I also had a promotional Decipher card depicting him as Talon Karrde, Michael A. Stackpole as Corran Horn, and Shannon McRandle as Mara Jade signed. I received that card eight years ago at StellarCon 36 after I told Mike Stackpole that Tim Zahn was my favorite author. Stackpole signed it and hand it to me, telling me to hold onto it until I had the chance to get Tim to sign it. About 11:45 or so, we headed over to buy food. I got a pepperoni pizza from Papa John’s. She got some macaroni and pork, as well as a bottle of tea. The food was so good, but she felt hers wasn’t worth the $14 she paid.

Nearly four o’clock, we decided we were exhausted and ready to start our two hour journey home. There were several people that I missed out on seeing, but we had a great time. I hope to be back next year.

Then we decided to take a break from the Exhibition Room. I unfortunately missed out on Catherine Tate’s Q&A. But I knew Jason David Frank’s would start soon. Alexis went out to the video gaming section and watched a few games being played. JDF was nearly twenty minutes late to his own panel. When he finally showed up, he apologized. That man looked damn good in a suit. I wish I could have gotten a clearer picture of him. He is such a nice, down-to-earth guy. He even stated that it is perfectly okay for fans to try and take a picture of him, despite the con rules. He told us how he got into acting, how he received his role on Power Rangers, his cameo in the 2017 movie, and showed us the trailer for The Legend of the White Dragon, a Power Rangers fan film that he and Johnny Yong Bosch are trying to film with other ranger actors for the fans. OMG! We need this so badly! I’ve never donated money online or done anything with Kickstarter, but I am so tempted to do it for this.

After that, I think I went to see Christopher Daniel Barnes. I was originally just going to get an autograph, but his handler talked me into the combo since his prices were so cheap ($40 for both). Poor guy barely had anyone at his table, compared to his costar (Barnes voiced Prince Eric in The Little Mermaid and the mermaid herself Jodi Benson was always swarmed by fans). Of the potential photos to be signed were mostly Prince Eric, at least four different 1994 Spider-Man: The Animated Series prints, one which I didn’t recognize but also had Robert Hays (which I have since learned is Starman), and only one Greg Brady from The Brady Bunch Movie/A Very Brady Sequel. Naturally, I chose Greg Brady. Barnes is definitely a nice guy.

I believe our final venture was the Tim Curry photo op. The line was considerably shorter, thankfully. I knew that Curry had a stroke a while back and was in a wheelchair. But as soon as we went behind the curtain, I wanted to cry when I laid eyes on him. I am aware that he is in his 70s, but it appears that his stroke has definitely taken a toll. And the hours of exhausting photo ops probably hadn’t helped (he started at 11 am and was supposed to go until 5 pm).

#galaxycon raleigh 2019 #galaxycon raleigh #my weekend #jonathan frakes #anthony michael hall #barry bostwick #christopher daniel barnes #kristy swanson #daphne zuniga #jason david frank #timothy zahn #tim curry #chris sarandon

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popculty · 5 years ago

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New Podcast Episode! Jessica Jones, Part 2: A.K.A. She Said “Smile”

In the second part of our Jessica Jones retrospective, sociologist/friend-of-the-show Bethany and I dig into the queer subtext of the series (#Trishica) and David Tennant as Kilgrave. We relive the life-giving season one finale (Jessica did that!) and the game-changing second season finale (Trish did that!). Special guest, author Reuben “Tihi” Hayslett shares his own story about intimate partner violence in “We Don’t Need Another Hero: How Netflix’s Jessica Jones Saved My Life.”

Listen here.

Or read the full episode transcript below.

(TW: General discussion of sexual assault and domestic abuse.)

Next time, in our final JJ episode: Sallinger, Hellcat, and THAT finale! There's still time to submit your thoughts on Jessica Jones! Send a voice memo to [email protected] or tweet @popculty to have your voice included in the next episode! Please help us reach our Patreon goal, to keep this show going! Become a Supergirl-level patron or higher by May 15th, and get a signed copy of Girl of Steel: Essays on Television's Supergirl and Fourth-Wave Feminism!

SJ: Welcome back to The Popculty Podcast. I'm your host, SJ. How's everyone doing? The world's a little topsy-turvy these days. I hope you all are safe and well as you listen to this. First I want to apologize for having to take such a long break from the podcast. That wasn't planned, it was just kind of a snowball of life stuff, which obviously turned into, you know, global pandemic. So I got a bit caught up in that, found myself in a bit of a hot-spot and, uh, shit's been crazy. What can I say? But recently I have found that just throwing myself back into the work is really getting me through this. So that is what I'm doing. It's times like this when escapism and diversion and entertainment can be our saviors. We need them more than ever. So I'm gonna do everything I can to bring you more great discussions on the pop culture you love that is getting us through quarantines and crazy times.

Before we jump back into our Jessica Jones convo, one big announcement at the top: The Popculty Pod has launched a patron drive to determine its future. We, and by 'we', I mean currently me, but hoping to be we, if this patron drive is successful. That's kind of the purpose of it. We're trying to get up to $250 a month through our Patreon. If we reach that goal, I'll be able to finally hire an assistant for the pod. I'm looking for a college student who's having a hard time right now, but who is really good at social media and promoting and editing and all these things that are really slowing me down. It's just not sustainable to run a podcast all by yourself - Anyone will tell you that. You really have to have a team, and I've kind of gone as far as I can go on my own. That's why I'm having such a hard time getting these episodes out. There's a backlog of content and I just can't push through it. So in the spirit of making this more of a team effort and getting you episodes more regularly, we really need to hit that $250 goal as soon as possible. The patron drive is going through May 15th, so please donate by then. We're already more than halfway there. We really just have to keep this momentum going. If everyone listening chipped in $2 we would easily make that goal. So I really need you guys' help to get us past that finish line. You can see all the tiers we have set up as well as the rewards that each tier gets you - Everything from on-air shoutouts to personalized TV recommendations. And for the next two weeks only, a special bonus offer: If you sign up at the Supergirl level or higher, I will send you a signed and personalized copy of a book I recently co-authored that was just released called Girl of Steel: Essays on Television's Supergirl and Fourth-Wave Feminism.

I want to give a huge shoutout to those listeners who have already stepped up: Wayne, you rock buddy. Cat, I've gotten so many good pop culture tips from you. Kara, I really miss our TV nights. Charles, thank you for becoming my very first Supergirl level patron. Aur, one of our very first supporters. And lastly, I want to shoutout my family - Mom, Dad, sis, Auntie Suzy, thank you all so much for supporting my work, my writing, giving me a place to stay... I wrote the chapter in the book on the importance of chosen family, but sometimes bio family really comes through for you, and you guys have. You too could get a little personal shoutout in the next episode, if you sign up at the Ms. Marvel level or higher. That's just $5 a month that goes directly to supporting the show and gets me closer to taking this thing to the next level. Together we got this, let's do it!

All right, let's get back to my conversation with Bethany about Jessica Jones! Last time, we left off talking about the relationship between Jessica and Trish. This episode, we're gonna dig more into those nuances, before we talk about David Tennant as Kilgrave. Obviously, some trigger warnings for when we get to that part of the episode: we will be talking generally about abusive relationships and sexual assault. We'll end our season one discussion by hearing from a special guest and then get into season two a bit before we break for the final Part Three. Last thing before we jump in, you're gonna be hearing the word 'queer' a lot in the first part of our discussion, and I just want to give some contemporary context for that. For LGBT folks of previous generations, the word 'queer' was often used as a slur against them. My generation though, Millennials and Gen Z-ers, have really reclaimed that word as a great umbrella term to encompass the entire LGBTQIA+ spectrum. It's also really helpful for people who are still figuring out their sexuality, or who just don't want to be labeled as one thing, because we now understand that sexuality is fluid. The term has become more or less mainstream, and it's used by not only members of the LGBT+ community, but also by scholars and academics. Relevant to our discussion today, it can also just mean a general subversion of a heteronormative text. All right, here we go! Part two of Jessica Jones starts now.

[Jessica Jones theme music plays]

SJ: So I think it's worth mentioning at this point that a lot of people saw the relationship between Jessica and Trish as more than friends. They saw romantic undertones to that. And I have to say, looking back at season one in particular, there is an enormous amount of queer subtext going on. I was wondering if you picked up on that?

Bethany: If you could just jog my memory with some of the examples? I think you've watched the first season more recently than I have.

SJ: Well, right off the bat, their very first scene together on the balcony...

Trish: You could have used the door.

Jessica: I wasn't sure you'd answer. It's important.

Trish: It must be.

Jessica: It's, uh, for a case.

Trish: Right, you became a private eye.

Jessica: You've been keeping tabs on me?

Trish: Making sure you weren't dead, since you never called.

Jessica: I need money.

Trish: Wow. Uh, I don't even know what to say.

Jessica: It's important.

Trish: You said. But I don't hear from you for months - six months, actually--

Jessica: I needed breathing room.

Trish: You shut me out. And now you show up here asking for money?

Jessica: This was a bad idea.

Trish: No, you talk to me! You tell me what the hell is so important.

SJ: There's very much a..."je ne sais quoi" to the things they're talking about, and the way that they are with each other. I was not alone in thinking that they were exes or had some type of romantic history. I saw a lot of reviewers who had only been given the first episode to screen writing articles like, "We may have gotten our first queer superhero!" And in fact, Krysten Ritter has said that she thought the exact same thing after she read the pilot. This is her talking to Gold Derby in June 2016.

Krysten Ritter: I mean, there was some stuff that I worked on with a different thing in mind than... For example, I didn't know that Rachael Taylor's character, Trish, was going to end up being my sister. I knew there was, like, real history there. I actually couldn't tell if they maybe were lovers at one point, just because their relationship was so dynamic and complex and so real and so alive that I just felt like there had to be more there.

SJ: So a lot of people read into that, including her. I remember the actress Chloe Grace Moretz tweeting at Krysten Ritter:

A lot of people were on board with this ship. It was almost mainstream within the fandom, because there's so much within the show that supports that reading of it - Everything from that first scene to their jealousy over each other's partners, and then the season one finale is pretty darn romantic, in my opinion. Telling the girl you love her and then killing the bad guy to save her? I mean, that's the typical hetero hero move at the end of every movie, right?

Bethany: As she's falling mid-air.

SJ: Right? All that was missing was Jess catching Trish falling off a building, Lois Lane style. [both laugh] And then there's even a lot of sexual undertones, especially in season one. The thing that always jumps out at me is how every time Trish is having sex with someone, Jessica either ends up physically or figuratively in the room, in a really obvious way.

Bethany: [laughs] Right.

SJ: For example, Simpson is going down on Jessica-- [record scratch] Or, sorry - Simpson is going down on Trish!

Bethany: I was like, "Wait, I missed that episode!"

SJ: Nope, that was a deleted scene! [both laugh] Simpson's going down on Trish and Jessica barges in. Or Trish and Simpson are having sex and Jessica calls and then Trish starts talking about her in bed. Or even in season two, when Trish and Malcolm are post-coitally laying in bed...

Malcolm: Where are you?

Trish: I'm right here.

Malcolm: No, you're not.

Trish: [sighs] I can't stop thinking about Jessica.

SJ: Like, every single time! There seems to be some sort of insertion of that relationship into the bedroom [laughs], and it seems very deliberate. I don't see how you could do something like that, from a creative standpoint, without knowing how the scenes were coming off. Did you pick up on that? Do you remember that?

Bethany: Yeah, now that you're mentioning it, I do. And I think maybe why I wasn't thinking as critically about it in that sense is because the show does a really interesting thing, playing with their relationship as siblings - especially in the first season when you understand that Trish is the adopted (whether that was official or not) sister of Jessica - there's a play on the incest taboo. The History of Sexuality talks about how much of a taboo incest in any form is, but the fact that they're not actually related by blood kind of adds this extra dimension where they can play with that incest thing. Because you kind of ask yourself, "Is it incest? Is it actually bad?". It seems like it's also playing with female intimacy, which I think is sometimes rightly and sometimes wrongly coded as being sexual, when it's actually just a different type of intimacy, you know?

SJ: Yeah, for sure.

Bethany: Or when you talk about gender differences, it is. And so I think that's kind of an interesting thing to push those boundaries: What is female intimacy without it being overtly or explicitly sexual? And then is it sort of queer? Is it romantic? Or is it just intimacy in a way that we're not used to being presented with? And I don't know the answer to that. I think it could be any or all of those things.

SJ: Totally. That's kind of the other thing that I keep coming back to, is that we were just so taken aback by this presentation of a relationship between two women that we had never seen before, right? And that's exactly how Krysten Ritter talks about it, that's how Rachael Taylor talks about it in one of their very first cast interviews at New York Comic-Con with Entertainment Weekly...

Rachael Taylor: You know, the relationship between Jessica and Trish is just so wonderful, damaged, complicated, loyal, there's shades of jealousy... There's so many honest, human, relatable little iterations of this relationship as the show progresses. So it was just kind of a pleasure to play something that I've never seen in a script between two girlfriends. It just doesn't fit into the traditional kind of patriarchal form of what girlfriends are supposed to be like together.

SJ: Bonus points for calling out the patriarchy. But she's absolutely right. It's usually these male creators writing what they think relationships between women look like, while really having no clue about the complexities involved. It's always either been explicitly gay or explicitly like best friends. And this relationship does not fit into either one of those really neatly because, like you said, it's also playing with a familial dynamic. Their relationship absolutely exists on multiple levels and can be interpreted in many different ways that are all just as valid. That's kind of what I love about it, at the end of the day. I'm totally fine with the fact that Jessica and Trish never got together or whatever, because the show never lost sight of the fact that they were the most important thing about it. But the cynical part of me still kind of sees it as a little bit of queer-baiting, especially in season one, because it is so heavy-handed [with the subtext] and then they do seem to back-pedal in season two and three. They start laying down actual definitions for their relationship. It's the first time they actually call each other 'sister' - They didn't do that in the first season, they really left it open.

Bethany: Ohh-kay.

SJ: Then in season two, the show's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa - No homo, bro! They're sisters." That kind of irks me a little bit, just knowing the history of shows using queer-baiting to get viewers, with no intention of actually following through on exploring that type of relationship. The only time the show directly addresses the queer subtext is in season three with that scene with Dorothy:

Trish: Mom, it's complicated and actually kind of private.

Jessica: I think you should tell her.

Dorothy: Please, don't tell me: You're a couple.

Trish: What?

Dorothy: There are much better lesbians out there.

Trish: Mom, I'm not-- No!

SJ: Look, I laughed, it's funny. Especially Jessica's incredulous reaction like, "Really?" Part of me appreciates that they even addressed it at all. But another part of me is kind of sad that they just wrote that whole aspect off as a joke. They knew that people were really invested in that particular reading of this relationship between Jessica and Trish and they just used it as a punch-line. That really doesn't sit well with me. It kind of has a bit of a 'gay panic' vibe to it. Do you see any queer-baiting in the way that it's portrayed?

Bethany: Yeah, I do see that. And I see it not even just in the relationship with Jess and Trish, but I also see it in the presentation of Jessica. She doesn't represent your stereotypical feminine female character in some ways, and I think that could attract people to make stereotypical judgements about her sexuality based on how she looks or how she acts. What's so interesting about Jessica and Trish for me is that they do play with a lot of sexuality and kind of queer stuff and female intimacy, but then they both present them as extremely hetero in a lot of ways - I mean, really, pretty explicitly. Jessica is with men who are very stereotypically masculine. And Trish is too, for that matter, although I think her brief relationship with Malcolm is a little deviant from that. I think his sexuality is a little more queer or fluid. And then there's the support characters where that is much more overt - Jeri... who else am I forgetting?

SJ: I mean, her wife, Wendy, her girlfriend, Pam, her myriad other girlfriends throughout the series... There's the cop, Detective Costa, in season two and three...

Bethany: I have kind of torn feelings about it, because I feel like with Jessica, if she has her androgynous style and she has some of these "masculine" traits - like aggressive and violent and very confrontational - in some ways it would be falling into the stereotype of a butch lesbian, in a way that I think would be kind of disappointing. Like, we've seen that, right? That's something that some people would expect.

SJ: I see what you mean.

Bethany: So in some ways, I like that she represents not stereotypical femininity, and then has a sexuality that isn't necessarily stereotypically in line with that. But then at the same time, I'm kind of disappointed that they fall back to such a hetero-explicit character, when there is this subtext. I don't know if that was intentional or if it was just maybe them not knowing how to, or being comfortable with, allowing it to be fluid. It sort of seems like they didn't want it to be ambiguous.

SJ: Yeah, I do wish that they had played more with Jessica's sexuality. It didn't necessarily have to be with Trish or anything - There are many interactions with other female characters throughout the show where there is some sexual tension or something going on. You see that with Jeri sometimes... When Rosario Dawson comes in at the end of season one as Claire, A.K.A. Night Nurse, there is some serious flirtation going on there, which I was not hating.

Claire: If your leg gets infected, you're not going anywhere. Take off your pants.

Jessica: I usually like a little more romancing.

Claire: Don't we all.

SJ: The show just never followed through on any of that. It's an interesting thing, and I don't think that there's a right or wrong answer, really. I have mixed feelings about it, and I know the fandom does too, as to whether this falls more into queer-baiting or more into just subverting our viewer expectations.

Bethany: And I think the hype or debate or disappointment or people talking about it at all points to the larger cultural phenomenon of us feeling like we need to understand people's sexuality, or that we need to have access to it, particularly if it's not normative.

SJ: That's a good point.

Bethany: For me, it's okay that I didn't see all representations of her sexuality, because part of me is sort of like, "Well, what does it matter? That's her sexuality, and we shouldn't give a shit." But, of course, part of it's about representation, part of it's about accurate representation... But then there is that other piece too, of recognizing that there's something a little bit voyeuristic, in my opinion, about how much we demand answers to people's gender or sexuality.

SJ: Right. It is this tricky line between representation and voyeurism. And that was actually something that Melissa Rosenberg, the showrunner/creator, mentioned when she was asked, "Are Jessica and Trish going to get together at some point?" She said something like, "Well, we're sort of hesitant to go down that road because I feel that it's often this prurient thing." And I think she's right, to an extent, like you're saying. But to be fair, I don't think the people she thought were clamoring to see this where who she thinks they were, i.e. a straight male audience who wanted to see two girls make out or whatever. That's not who it was. The people who were really interested in seeing Jessica in a queer relationship were women, queer and straight. Every woman I know who watched the show was like, "Yeah, I kind of wanted to see that." So I think you also need to know your audience in order to better understand why they want something, and to decide whether or not you should give it to them. It does strike me as more relating to representation in this case though, because this was never a show that was pitched for straight guys. It's very much a show that skews female and queer.

Bethany: I think that's a really good point. And I think it also highlights that it's really important for us to remember that if you're gonna create any kind of art form, like a movie or television show, ultimately you're making decisions about representation. So what you choose to show or not show, or what character arc you follow, has a big impact. It's what people see. It's not like those things are just arbitrary or somehow organic, like people in the real world. They were fabricated in a very intentional way.

SJ: [to listener] I'm really glad Bethany brought up this idea of the responsibility of representation. That's something that's gonna come up again in our discussion of season three. [to Bethany] Okay, we got to talk about the purple elephant in the room, obviously. So Kilgrave has kind of become an iconic villain by now. He's definitely one of the creepiest and realist villains we've ever seen, especially in the MCU. He's not some Thanos character who could never possibly exist. He's very much rooted in reality, and a lot of women in particular recognize him as that stalker/harasser/abuser that unfortunately most of us have encountered. So he really resonated with viewers as a very real threat in this fictionalized world.

However, I also saw sympathy for Kilgrave, from what I would call a minority of the viewership, that I was not expecting. And they would point to things like his backstory, how his parents experimented on him as a kid. But I look at those scenes and I think, "Wow, this show is striking the perfect balance of creating this fully fleshed-out villain, and explaining his behavior without ever excusing it. I mean, this show refuses to let Kilgrave off the hook for his actions. Jessica is constantly calling him out on his bullshit.

Kilgrave: Jessie!

Jessica: Do not call me that.

Kilgrave: We used to do a lot more than just touch hands.

Jessica: Yeah. It's called rape.

Kilgrave: Which part of staying in five-star hotels, eating in all the best places, doing whatever the hell you wanted, is rape?

Jessica: The part where I didn't want to do any of it! Not only did you physically rape me, but you violated every cell in my body and every thought in my goddamn head.

Kilgrave: That is not what I was trying to do.

Jessica: It doesn't matter what you were trying to do. You raped me again and again and again.

Kilgrave: How am I supposed to know? Huh? I never know if somebody's doing what they want or what I tell them to do.

Jessica: Oh, poor you.

Kilgrave: You have no idea. I have to painstakingly choose every word I say. I once told a man to go screw himself, can you even imagine?

Jessica: Jesus.

Kilgrave: I didn't have this - a home, loving parents, a family.

Jessica: You blame bad parenting? My parents died. You don't see me raping anyone!

Kilgrave: I hate that word.

SJ: But then you have a handful of people who cite that little backstory the show gives us to incur sympathy for him. Do you see Kilgrave as sympathetic at all? Do you think the show treats him as sympathetic?

Bethany: I mean, I basically agree with you. If we're watching this kid be abused in real-time, obviously you're going to sympathize, you're gonna be horrified. But we have this character who is an awful, murderous human being. I mean, at the point that we are introduced to him, he's committed countless acts of murder, violence, rape, and god knows what else, right? We get hints that he's used his mind control in any sorts of ways. I just feel like, "Okay, fine, give me a backstory for this awful person,” but he's a psychopath, and I just don't think you can have sympathy for someone at that point. I don't think any kind of backstory somehow redeems or justifies or excuses [his behavior]. You must follow all these forums where people are talking about these things. I had no idea that there were people who sympathized with him. Because as far as I'm concerned, he's a total villain, and I don't see him as a villain who has some kind of redeemable qualities. And I do think that there are villains, in Jessica Jones and a lot of other shows, you feel sympathy for. I never felt like Kilgrave was one of those characters.

SJ: I mean, neither did I. But you're right that I do pay attention to fandom discussions and what people are saying on social media about this stuff, because I often find those reactions and discussions are almost as interesting as the media itself. And in this case, I'm kind of sitting on the sidelines, watching people have this back-and-forth on how sympathetic Kilgrave is, and I realize that it basically boils down to one thing, which is casting. David Tennant is such a beloved actor, from especially Doctor Who, you have a lot of fans watching Jessica Jones because of David Tennant's presence. They come into the show loving him and project their positive feelings about the actor David Tennant onto his character, Kilgrave.

Bethany: That's so interesting to me, because I can see that that makes sense. I love David Tennant as an actor. I loved Broadchurch, I'm a big fan of that show. And he, in some ways, is kind of playing the opposite of Kilgrave in that show. He has some remorse about how he's affected people's lives... Then, of course, I'm a big Harry Potter fan, so I've seen him be Barty Crouch, Jr. He's just a really compelling, fun person to watch on screen. And it kind of makes me wonder if people would view his character differently if they had chosen somebody who maybe wasn't such a beloved actor.

SJ: I wonder, too.

Bethany: I do wonder how [casting a familiar actor] changes the way we think about their characters. I think another good example is the actor who plays Moriarty in Sherlock. He's been in Fleabag recently--

SJ: Hot priest!

Bethany: [laughs] Yeah. He's been in a variety of things, and he just did a Black Mirror episode. And people like him so much, but Moriarty is the villain of Sherlock, and he's a horrible person, but people love him as a villain because they love him as an actor. So you get the same feeling of, "How are you, in a sense, rooting for or enjoying watching somebody who, at their root, is the embodiment of the most evil thing you could think of?"

SJ: Yeah, he (Andrew Scott) is another really good example. And I think for people who do have a hard time separating the actor from the character, it lessens the impact of a character like Moriarty, or like Kilgrave. By the same token, I think it was really important to cast someone as charming as David Tennant in this role, because from what I've heard from people who have had an experience like Jessica's, that tracks with their own abusers. How they present themselves to kind of lure you in - They might be enigmatic, they might be charming, they might be good-looking. And that's a trap, right? And people really responded to Kilgrave fitting that profile. He's good-looking, he's British, he's a natty dresser - all these superficially attractive qualities that a lot of people recognized in their own abusers.

Bethany: Maybe part of the brilliance of the show is that the casting of David Tennant in that role specifically does that. It gives you a sense of wanting to like a character who you really should hate. Although the one thing I don't think it quite captures is you can know that he's done these things, but you still don't actually have a sense of experiencing it in any real way. So it does sort of complicate wanting to like him. Most of the relationship picture that you get about Kilgrave and Jessica you get in this retrospective way. That also changes how you view it, because you're not watching these things in real-time, you're watching these memories or things Jessica is blocking out.

SJ: And memory is subjective. Yeah, there's that great scene towards the end of season one... We get a flashback of this moment where she's with Kilgrave and they're on this terrace overlooking the city. And for just a few seconds, he stops mind-controlling her.

Jessica: I had waited so long for that moment.

SJ: She imagines jumping off the building and riding away on a white horse. But then we realize she didn't actually do that - She's still standing on the terrace. Of course, in Kilgrave's mind, he sees this and thinks, "Oh, I gave her two seconds of freedom and she didn't run away, so she must have wanted to stay with me." And Jessica sets him straight:

Kilgrave: You didn't jump.

Jessica: Because I wasn't fast enough. Getting you out of my head was like prying fungus from a window. I couldn't think.

Kilgrave: I know your face. I saw you.

Jessica: You saw what you wanted to see.

Kilgrave: I remember!

Jessica: I remember everything.

Kilgrave: Come down now, Jessica! Why don't you listen to me?

Jessica: Because I don't want to.

Kilgrave: If you don't listen to me, what is the point of having ears? Answer me!

Jessica: To listen to someone else.

Kilgrave: You never appreciate anything I do for you. If you can't listen, you don't need ears. Cut them off.

SJ: She starts to do it, before he stops her.

Kilgrave: You wanted to stay with me, admit it!

Jessica: You admit this.

SJ: When she pulls back her hair and shows him the scar, it's undeniable at that point. There was no consent, because she had no free will, and what he was doing to her was rape. But what we don't see, which is absolutely revolutionary in a show that is inherently about sexual assault, is the actual assault. We don't see the act of rape at all in this series. Melissa Rosenberg has said that was something very intentional from the beginning. She never wanted to show it. There's way too many scenes of sexual assault on TV, it's constantly in our faces, and it's triggering left and right for the quarter or more of people in this world who have experienced sexual assault. So Melissa Rosenberg said from the get-go, "I never want to show it. We don't need to show it in order to show the consequences of it." And I thought that was such a smart thing to do, and I so appreciated it, as someone who is so sick of seeing rape on TV--

Bethany: Yeah, same.

SJ: --someone who stopped watching Game of Thrones for three years because it got so rapey.

Bethany: That was gonna be the same example I was going to use. Sensationalizing it for the sake of putting it on the screen, to be at best, provocative and at worst, just triggering and almost glorifying something like that. The decision to not put it on screen I don't necessarily think has to be a gendered thing, but I think this particular show, Jessica Jones, making that decision does feel like it was a decision made by a woman. Because there's a sensitivity to it in the way that it's constantly referenced and it's constantly in your mind, you know that it's part of the story, but it's never put in front of your face. We're never watching that scene. Yeah, there's something that's realistic and poignant about that. It really tackled that issue in the forefront, it was never trying to hide, it was never trying to pretend like that wasn't a part of her relationship with Kilgrave, but also it didn't need to constantly have it in your face for it to still be completely acknowledged.

SJ: Totally. The show is not afraid to call a rapist a rapist. It doesn't tiptoe around anything, but by not focusing on the act of sexual assault itself, that actually requires better writing. Because that's honestly a pretty lazy tactic that we have seen over and over and over, and I think it is totally affected by gender. Women are much more sensitive to the effects of what they are showing other women in particular. I think male directors are very quick to have their female characters experience sexual assault or at least reference the fact that they have had this trauma in their past. Male directors fucking love that. You see it a lot in the form of the "Women in Refrigerators" trope, where the female character is raped or murdered or tortured or whatever, solely for the purpose of moving a male character's storyline forward. It's one of the oldest tropes in the book - You see it in the Bible, you see it in comic books, you see it in all those male revenge movies. But we so rarely see any kind of resolution for the victim. There's no exploration of what something like that does to a human being on a psychological level or an emotional one. It's so often framed as, "Here's this horrible thing that happened to this poor woman, and here's how the men in her life reacted." So most of the time you see this being done, it feels, like you say, very gross and voyeuristic. That's how it always came across in Game of Thrones, that's what happens when you have an all-male writing room. That's what happens when you have all male directors. You don't have input from women who are much more sensitive to this sort of thing saying, "Hold on, do we really actually have to fucking show this and re-traumatized people who are watching? Is that really necessary? And could we actually tell a better story and do better character work by talking about what happens after?" And I think that's exactly what Jessica Jones does.

Bethany: I completely agree with that, and I think especially because so much of the first season in particular is about her dealing with the after-effects of it, and how it has shaped the way she views relationships and the way she approaches people. So it really isn't about the fact that it happened to her as an act, it's more about the effects that it had because it was a thing that happened to her. You know, it destroyed what little trust she had in humanity and in people she was close with. And because Kilgrave's power completely removes consent, it amplifies that feeling of powerlessness that I think comes hand-in-hand with so many experiences of sexual violence

SJ: Now I have also seen the argument made that not showing the rape was not the right call. Some people say that it should have gone there and just shown it explicitly, so that people could stop saying these things that we've been talking about - sympathizing with Kilgrave, or "I just really love David Tennant." I have heard some people say that that could have all been avoided if the show had just straight-up shown it and laid the entire thing to rest. What would you say to that?

Bethany: I mean, I disagree with that. I think that is sort of along the same lines of victim blaming or victim questioning, [in real life]. When we hear about these things happening to people, there's these questions of like, "Do you have proof of it?" or "Can you tell me exactly how it happened?" As if there needs to be some kind of thing that people can tangibly see or hear to validate it. That's just my own take.

SJ: No, I totally agree with that because when I was initially presented with that argument, I kind of doubled down on my position of, "Melissa Rosenberg made the right call by not showing it." Because it's basically a giant fuck-you to not believing the victim and to rape culture in general - How we ask what she was wearing, we ask for receipts, we ask [a victim] to recount the experience in graphic detail, and even then we don't believe her. It's like, would it really have made any difference if we had seen it? I'm not entirely sure that's true, and, like we said, it would have been triggering to people to watch. I think the benefits of potentially showing that are far outweighed by the harms it would have caused. And I think this show made a stronger statement by ultimately not showing the assault itself. I can see where people who would make that argument are coming from. They kind of just want to stop hearing people make excuses for Kilgrave, and so do I! But I don't think that's the solution.

Bethany: I think for people who also have to question, "Was sexual violence part of their relationship?" To me, that's kind of naive. Or wanting to err on the side of caution like, "Well, we don't really know. They didn't show us." I mean, how much do you have to allude to something to know that that's what it's getting at, what it's saying? I think that's pretty clear. It doesn't need to be in your face to be effective. And they did some really interesting things, even past the physical violence and the rape - They also do these flashbacks where Jessica is dressed really differently, and you get a sense of how he was forcing her to present herself as a different type of woman. And what a woman looked like for him was a very demure kind of person who he could control.

SJ: Right! That great scene we were talking about, where she's in the yellow dress...

Bethany: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of.

SJ: Yeah, that's true! Jessica Jones would literally never wear yellow or a dress of her own free will. That, to me, was more effective than any sexual violence that we could have been shown.

Bethany: This is a really interesting piece too that ties into representations of femininity in the show: I think if you had removed Trish's character from the show and you had this arc where Jessica, when she was with Kilgrave, was being forced to wear these dresses and looking extremely stereotypically feminine, and then you see her character after she's not under his spell anymore (and she, of course, dresses more androgynously, she's kind of a badass), your conclusion might be that there's something kind of wrong with that more traditional feminine dress. But I like that Trish is there, as a character who was still really, really classically feminine in the ways that we often understand it, because I like that the show doesn't leave you thinking that to be strong, you have to dress like Jessica Jones, or as a woman you have to reject traditional femininity. Because Trish doesn't, and Trish is still an extremely powerful and effective character. And whether it was intentional or not, I thought that was a really cool piece of the show that was kind of important for some of the gender representations.

SJ: I never even thought about that! That's such a good observation. Okay, the moment we've all been waiting for: Season one finale, A.K.A. the most life-giving thing I have ever seen on my TV screen. To set the scene for you, just in case it's been a while: A few minutes before the big showdown, Jessica and Trish are in Trish's car making a plan on how to deal with Kilgrave.

Trish: I'll wait here. Just text me.

Jessica: You won't know if I'm a minion of evil.

Trish: Well, we need a signal. Something you would never say, like "sardines" or "pickle juice"... You say it, you're still you.

Jessica: Something I never say. Like, "I love you." [car door opens and then shuts]

Trish: [quietly] That'll do.

SJ: That comes into play in a big way, just a few minutes later in the final showdown between Jessica and Kilgrave. I've never been more nervous watching anything than I was when I watched the scene at the docks. Kilgrave has taken Trish under his control, he's sexually assaulting her right in front of Jessica, he's about to kidnap her and sail away on a boat...

Kilgrave: If Patsy or I ever hear from you, ever see you, see anyone who looks like you, she will slit her own throat. It's the ultimate contingency.

SJ: The stakes couldn't be higher. He's about to get away with everything he's done. Jessica only has this one tiny chance of convincing Kilgrave that he still has control over her, so she can get him close enough to save her best friend and take out Kilgrave once and for all.

Kilgrave: Oh god, it’s true, isn’t it? You would let me take your beloved sister? My god...It's finally over. You're mine now. No more fighting, no more--no more of these ugly displays. You'll be with me now. Look, after a while, however long it takes, I know-- I know you will feel what I feel! Let's start with a smile. [he laughs, pleased] Tell me you love me.

SJ: She looks directly past him, right at Trish and says...

Jessica: I love you.

SJ: And then! [Kilgrave yelps, music intensifies]

Jessica: Smile. [neck snaps, body thuds on pavement]

SJ: I literally gasped, had to rewind the scene to make sure I had actually seen this happen, and then I was just on my feet cheering.

Bethany: [laughs] Yeah.

SJ: I mean, line 'em up, knock 'em down: the safe word coming into play, the "smile" motif being turned back around on Kilgrave, the sound of his neck snapping?! Just boom, boom, boom. Oh, my god. Do you remember your reaction to the finale?

Bethany: Oh, yeah. Throughout that whole first season, I was shocked at how quickly and just without a second thought, Jessica would beat somebody up or Kilgrave would have people commit violence. Because I don't think we're used to seeing things happen at that speed, right? Usually there's some kind of suspense that builds up, which in some ways is unrealistic, compared to how it would happen in real life. So there's this added shock factor of things just hitting you in the moment they're happening. You don't get prepared for it at all. I was so excited when I watched that scene. You knew it had to resolve, in some way, but you didn't know how it was exactly going to happen. But you know the season is ending, the show is called Jessica Jones, you know that she has to triumph. But she really, really triumphed. I almost wanted to, like, cheer and cry at the same time, because it was just... It was exciting.

SJ: Yeah! I mean, I felt the same way. I was on the verge of tears of joy, and I have never had that reaction to a TV show before. Never seen anything like it. And it was so well-earned. You know, we feel like we've been on this journey with her, and she's been suffering so long, and this fucking guy has been in her head, causing her all this pain... To have her just silence him once and for all, and in that way - The whole season he's been telling her to smile and mind-controlling women to smile at him and fall in love with him. And what does she do right before she snaps his neck? She says, "Smile." And it's like [sings choir note]. What a satisfying moment, as a woman. We are all so sick and tired of being cat-called, street harassment, being told, "Smile, you'd be prettier." That was such a fuck-you to this stuff that we have to put up with. There was so much catharsis in that scene... I'll never be over it!

Bethany: Yeah, even if it was a little bit almost cliche, just in the sense that "stop telling women to smile" is such a buzz-phrase now. Even though it really was that, it was still so satisfying to see. I didn't care that it was maybe a tip to that. And again, I feel like it fits in with the fact that it is still a comic book, and we expect there to be some of these kind of quippy phrases, right? I think that's part of why people like comics so much is because the dialogue is fun. And the sense of relief. Kilgrave's character hangs over you the whole first season. As soon as you realize who he is and what he has the capability of doing, I was so anxious knowing that he could make somebody powerless in an instant. And realizing that he was finally once and for all dead - especially because we so often don't get that finality with comic book characters, right? Like, we see them in a crash and then their hand moves or something, right? So to see him really dead, I was just really relieved. And I just let go of that tension.

SJ: Yeah, completely. I honestly wasn't sure that they were going to kill him off in the first season because David Tennant is so beloved. I thought maybe they would keep him around. And honestly, I'm really glad they didn't because it felt like his time had come. I didn't want him hanging over Jessica anymore, because, like you said, it felt like he was hanging over us, and it was so stressful! Honestly, we deserved closure, and she deserved closure, so I'm really glad that they didn't try to extend his stay on our screens, just because it's a well-liked actor. I really appreciated that they knew when it was his time, and they called it, and let her do her thing in a very satisfying way.

[to listener] I wanted to wrap up season one with a special guest. If you remember in the last episode, I mentioned an essay called "How Jessica Jones Saved My Life." Well, that article was written by Reuben "Tihi" Hayslett, a queer writer, activist and storyteller living in Long Beach, California. I reached out to him for this podcast to see if he'd be so kind as to read that article for us, and he graciously agreed.

Reuben: This is Reuben "Tihi" Hayslett, reading an article that I wrote for The Mary Sue, published on December 15th, 2015 titled "We Don't Need Another Hero: How Netflix's Jessica Jones Saved My Life." Like you, I'm addicted to Netflix. So when Jessica Jones started appearing on subway ads during my daily commute, I knew I was watching. What I didn't know was that Jessica Jones would save me in ways I didn't know I needed saving. You see, Jessica and I (we're on a first-name basis) are both survivors of intimate partner abuse. For over a year in my early twenties, I was powerless to escape my attacker. That is, until, like Jessica, suddenly I wasn't. It's been nine years, and I still didn't know that I had undiscovered triggers until my first binge-watching session. Jessica Jones explores, more than anything I've seen, the true terror of intimate partner violence. It's the mind control. But even further, Jessica as a character explores her fear, shame and baggage more authentically than even I have. If you know a survivor, you know, mind control. When my abuser told me not to go anywhere, I froze. I recalculated. That's how much power he had over me. In the beginning, our relationship was mind-numbingly easy. He decided what we'd eat for dinner, where to go on weekends, he even picked out the clothes I wear every day. In the beginning, his charisma and confidence were hypnotizing. He was like a choice drug, or a favorite drink I could order up, kick back and get lost in, which made that first blow to my face all the more startling. Even immediately after, in those first few seconds that it took to register, his will was more powerful than mine. A simple, "I'm sorry. I'll never do that again" turned into, "It never happened. You did something wrong." I don't know what a one-off encounter with mind-control feels like, but I trust the experiences of the Kilgrave support group. My life, though, was more like Jessica's, where being controlled, no matter how you feel about it, becomes the new normal.

Months before my escape and his last attack, I tried to run. My coworkers at the time, helped me develop a plan: wait for him to leave work first, even if that meant being late, then come to work, cash my check, take the first cab to the airport, buy a one-way ticket West, doesn't matter where, and start over. I kept counting through my $100 bills, Googling flights to Los Angeles or Texas, but at the end of the day, there I was, still at my desk, confused. How could I not get up? Why can't I leave? Instead of boarding a plane, I came home, confessed, took my licks. A couple of months later, when I finally told him I was done with him, he stabbed me. Life is over or beginning when you leave your abuser. Where Jessica has cheap whiskey, I have 40 ounce malt liquor. Where Jessica counts street names, I count old college classmates who made me feel safe. I've been struggling like Jessica for nine years with this idea of heroism. Hers is super-powered, fueled with strength and not-quite flying. Mine is political activism, social and economic justice. It's not possible for Jessica or I to rewrite history, to undo what was done to us, but it is possible to try, when we can, to do better for others. I work in activism because I want to prevent the system from creating the same kind of man that abused me, in the same vein that Jessica fights for Hope's innocence. But let's not get confused. Neither one of us is a hero. The first time I spoke out publicly about my abuse was at a Take Back the Night rally. A good friend pulled me aside after and told me that she too had an experience but couldn't talk about it. I was her hero, she told me. But what that felt like in the moment was nothing like a hero. It was shame. Talking about your abuse doesn't change that it happened. And helping others doesn't change that it happened to you. I never get to be the same again, not since him and all the times he hit me. For years, I thought I was okay with that. But Jessica taught me better and gave me tools that, in hindsight, I always knew were there but never thought to try.

Spoiler alert: Jessica at one point goes back to her attacker in a house that he set up for her in hopes of rekindling whatever relationship they had. An outside observer could say that this move was unwise, and a keen outside observer could say that Jessica's act with selfless, that she was trying to save others. Both of these are wrong. Jessica needed to go back for herself. She did what I could never think to do. Meet her attacker on open ground, as much as equals as possible. The harsh side of abuse is that it's always about power, about mind control. You can never really be equal, but Jessica bucked up and faced the kinds of fears that I still have nightmares about. Watching Jessica confront her attacker honestly, without shame or reservation, was like an exorcism for me. More than all the therapy sessions I sought, Jessica Jones allowed me to mentally play with the idea of closure in ways I never thought possible, and in ways that I'm sure she never thought possible - You know, she has her whiskey and I have my forties. I tried for years to move on, only for a Netflix series to glaringly and embarrassingly show me that all I've ever done was cope. Heroes, Jessica and I aren't. What makes a hero is the central emotional arc of the show. We're given lots of examples, good and bad of that: We have Malcolm versus Simpson, Hogarth versus Trish. But everyone is flawed because at the core, the hero is a facade. It's a role we play.

I hate being called brave, especially in reference to my abuse. I've attempted to date men who used "brave" as a term of admiration, a compliment to throw out before the clothes come off. But brave would have been leaving my attacker the first time he hit me. Brave is resisting mind-control, and even the super-powered, super-sexy Luke Cage couldn't do that. In my experience, brave is what comes after, not what you do in the days following your last attack, but in the years. Brave is the idea of opening yourself up to love, when the first person you loved tried to literally kill you. Brave is what I wish to be, and maybe, hopefully, can become, because of what Jessica taught me. Jessica never knew she was immune to Kilgrave, (sorry, that's another spoiler alert) and neither did I until I was watching the show. We become immune because our bodies, not our minds, not our hearts, build up a resistance. I'll confess that sometimes I still display really odd behavior while sleeping next to someone. Sometimes I'll unconsciously insist on not being touched, not being near anyone. This has happened to one-night stands as well as men that I've been in years-long relationships with. It's my body, unconscious yet somehow still mind-controlled, trying to immunize.

So Jessica wins the day, not by being a hero. She doesn't sacrifice herself. She doesn't triumph in a punch-trading battle. Yet somehow, more than even watching King Joffrey's death, Kilgrave's death became cathartic and necessary, even in its quick unceremonious end, and I'm starting to understand why: Our abusers don't need to see us live happy, productive, rewarding lives, and they don't deserve a thousand cuts either. What they need - what we need - is for them to end. For Jessica, that's murder. For me, that's something I'm still left to discover. I need the ghost of my attacker to end. Nine years has been far too long. I need a release and I don't know how to get it. But Jessica has been more than a role model for me. She's become a beacon of the kind of hope that only somebody traumatized can understand. Jessica faces her past with all the ugliness, with all the danger. She doesn't have a plan, she isn't always sober, but she stands and she faces her attacker. She says to Kilgrave, "You raped me." And one day, [takes a deep breath] I will, too.

SJ: Reuben's fiction and nonfiction has appeared in the Splinter Generation, the Oregon Literary Review, the Surreal South Anthology 2011, and Translit magazine. His debut collection, Dark Corners, received a coveted star review on Kirkus. We'll be hearing again from Reuben in our last episode, to reflect on what the show means to him all these years later. We've talked a lot about abusive relationships in this episode, and I want to take this moment to speak directly to listeners who may be in quarantine with their abuser right now. A number of reports have come out recently, indicating that there has been a steep increase in domestic violence, and I just want to offer some resources for anyone who is dealing with that right now. If you're in a dangerous situation, please reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline, @ndvh or call 1-800-799-7233. You can also chat with someone at thehotline.org. We'll take a quick break and be right back to talk about season two. [contemplative music]

SJ: As Bethany and I got into season two, we realized we didn't have as much to say about it as we did about season one. And not because it wasn't as good or we didn't like it as much, but just because so many of the things that we loved about the first season were still true for the second, and we didn't feel the need to rehash all that. I just rewatched season two again in quarantine, and I was reminded of how much I really liked it. It perfectly bridges the gap between season one and season three, dealing with the same elements, just within a different context - Questions like, "Can I control this monster?" "Am I a killer?" "What is a hero?" It also continues to be prescient in ways, like the subplot involving Trish confronting a director who assaulted her when she was a child actress. All of that was being written well before the #MeToo Movement really exploded. The two things we did end up talking about a lot were Jessica's mother, Alisa, as the antagonist and the season two finale.

Bethany: Jessica's mother is a character that I do feel like I had some sympathy for at some points. She goes through this really traumatic accident where she loses two of her family members - her husband and her son - and then kind of effectively Jessica too, because she becomes this monster. She's in the hospital for a number of years, and by the end of the season, we see her lose her other current love interest, Dr. Carl. So she's dealing with all of these extremely traumatic things. She's also portrays different representations of impulses or struggling with demons, wherein she has these outbursts. And she too is a murderer, she's extremely violent, she's done some really awful things. I don't think she's all good. I didn't like her at times, I felt like she was just a bad person, or a bad character even, but I definitely had more sympathy for where she was coming from. I felt like she had moments that were more redeemable, and I think Jessica's attitude towards her mom was almost like a reflection of the redeem-ability of her character. We didn't see Jessica have that at all towards Kilgrave (which I think is what we would expect), but we do with her mother. And I think not just because it's her mother, but because Jessica is always trying to pick to make sure that innocent people don't get hurt. She doesn't know what to do with her mother, because she doesn't know where her mother falls on this scale of innocent to guilty.

Jessica: I don't know what to do. What's the right move here? Because I don't know.

Trish: There's only one thing you can do - You gotta put her down. You're the only one powerful enough to do it. If Carl had finished what he started--

Jessica: [scoffs] Are you serious?

Trish: If I was powered, I wouldn't hesitate.

Jessica: Bullshit. How many times have you forgiven Dorothy?

Trish: Dorothy is not a mass murderer.

Jessica: But that's not who my mom is.

Trish: Jess, if you don't do it, how many other people are gonna die trying?

SJ: That was, for me, the most interesting crux of season two in general - Trying to figure out is this person really even still her mother? How much of her mother is still there? And does that mean anything, in the face of everything she's done and all the people she's killed and will continue to kill? And, you know, Alisa is another really good example of female rage: Over the course of the series, you have Jessica, really in season one, you have Alisa in season two, and then Trish in season three. It's this great trifecta of ways in which different women express their anger. And Alisa is very much the uncontrollable rage incarnate. Even Jessica can barely get through to her.

Jessica: Look at me.

Alisa: [long pause] I almost put your face through the floor. Where's your sense of self-preservation?

Jessica: You're still my mother.

Alisa: No. I just have her voice. Carl is all I've got.

Jessica: Then you're a goddamn idiot.

SJ: For most of the season, Alisa kills anyone who's a threat to her or will expose her. She very much wants to remain free and will do whatever it takes to do that. Meanwhile, Jessica and pretty much everyone around her is convinced that she needs to be put away. She's simply done too much damage, and she's not controllable in a consistent way. By the very last episode though, that's essentially been reversed, with Alisa now coming to realize that she is a liability to everyone around her, including her daughter. But Jessica has started to become attached to the idea of having her mother back, and this hope of running away together and being able to keep Alisa in check. In the climax of season two, after being on the run, with the police closing in on them, Jessica and her mother have a final conversation on this ferris wheel at an abandoned amusement park that Jessica's family used to go to when she was a kid.

Alisa: "Hero" isn't a bad word, Jessica. It's just someone who gives a shit and does something about it.

Jessica: Well, I don't. I don't give a shit.

Alisa: Yes, you do. You do. It sucks and it hurts, but you do. You are far more capable than I ever was. Maybe I don't have to be amazing. Maybe I just made you.

Jessica: No, I won't-- [gunshot, body thuds]

SJ: Jessica looks out of the moving ferris wheel car to see Trish down on the ground, holding a gun. She leaps over the side, enraged.

Trish: No!

Jessica: You killed her!

Trish: Before she could kill you! [sound of impact, Trish cries out in pain] The police would have shot you both. I had to save you! [suspenseful music] Jess! Jess...Jess...

Jessica: [voice almost a growl] Run.

SJ: Trish really did that! I mean, she kept talking about it, but she literally got up out of that hospital bed and shot Jessica's mother in the head. That was pretty shocking to me.

Bethany: I almost feel like it was a necessary plot choice that Trish be the one to make that decision for Jessica. Because I think the alternative for that would be that Jessica has a period of time where she picks her mother and is with her, but because we come back to Jessica's actions every time being about her sense of morality, being there for innocent people, being a protector as much as she's begrudging about it, I don't think that would have been a sustainable resolution. And I think that the show didn't have the ability, or wasn't going to give us a whole season of her struggling with that. But I think inevitably, regardless of what she chose in the second season at the end, I think ultimately she would have been the one to somehow do that to her mother. But the plot, out of necessity, has Trish do it, one, because it's interesting for the relationship between Jessica and Trish, but also because it it closes what, in my opinion, eventually would have been kind of the same conclusion, but taking that responsibility away from Jessica.

SJ: I agree, it felt inevitable. And not only is it seriously foreshadowing where Trish is headed next season, it's also such a clear example of the way Trish has all these different motivations to do the same thing. Rachael Taylor talked about this in a Build Series interview at the beginning of season two:

Rachael Taylor: In the first couple of episodes, you know, Trish really pushes Jessica to dive into her very painful past. And I think there's a little bit of betrayal in that. It's something Jessica would rather not look at. She's been through some incredible trauma, and I really push her to go after that. And I think Trish has some-- and this is what I love about the the way Melissa writes: she always writes characters that want more than one thing at the same time. I think Trish really is trying to help Jessica heal, and I also think Trish has an ambition for personal gain.

SJ: I think that's a really good observation that pretty much all the characters in this show have more than one coexisting motivation, but especially Trish. And it's so clear in this scene where she shoots Alisa that she does want to save Jessica, she does want to be the hero, she does want to remove Alisa from the equation (and perhaps from getting in the way of Jessica and Trish's relationship), and she also wants to spare Jessica having to do that herself. All of these things can be, and I think are, true for Trish in this moment.

Bethany: Jessica's mother, for me, was a stand-in in some ways to develop Trish and Jessica's relationship more, like you said. Because her mother comes back not really as her mother as Jessica remembers it, and so she has this brief moment of hope, right? Jessica's entire persona that we meet in the first season is a loner. She's lost her whole family (or her whole given family, I should say), and is sad and shutdown about it. And then she has this brief moment in season two, where maybe her mother is gonna be back and she can have this life that was taken away from her. So in some ways, Trish doesn't really take her mother away as much as she takes away that hope for Jessica to no longer be the person she was in the first season. Trish destroys that for her.

SJ: And that's maybe a more unforgivable thing.

Bethany: Although I think we, as viewers, already knew that there was no hope. That's part of the reason why they had Dr. Carl end up killing himself in the lab explosion - he was the hope for us that Jessica's mom could potentially be cured, right? So when you take away his character, you realize that Jessica is stuck with this person who is very flawed, has these uncontrollable fits of rage and murder. I think Trish knows that because she was there at the laboratory, which is another thing that maybe allowed Trish to shoot the mother is that there was no foreseeable hope that she was gonna get better.

SJ: And I think Jessica knows that too subconsciously, even though she's not really able to articulate it for quite a while. A couple episodes into season three, Trish not really apologizes, because she still believes it was the right thing to do, but she says, "I wish I didn't kill your mother." And Jessica says, "I wish she wasn't a mass murderer." That's the closest Jessica Jones is going to get to saying, "I forgive you." But even right after Alisa dies and her blood is still drying on Jessica, first she looks like she's gonna beat the shit out of Trish, but she doesn't. She tells her to run, so that she can take the blame or the responsibility from the police of having put her mother down. To me, that was a really clear indicator that she also knew in her bones that it was the right call, and this was kind of inevitable. I see that as even the first steps to forgiveness for Jessica, even though she will not say it for what we find out is a year later.

Bethany: That scene with her on the ferris wheel with her mother, right after Trish shoots her, and she's in that little car thing, and her mother is dead across from her, and the police are on their way... That was probably one of the scenes actually out of the entire series that has stuck with me the most. Because Krysten Ritter's acting was incredible in this scene, but also for Jessica, we're seeing her in this devastated, vulnerable state. When the cops find her, she's like curled up... The idea of being stuck in this little container with this person who you love, but they also were this really awful person in some ways, and you just dealt with significant loss and trauma... Yeah, that scene really stuck with me, and I think was probably one of the most powerful scenes for me of the whole series.

SJ: I can see that. It was definitely something I found myself mulling over for several days afterwards. It was really heavy. And again, like the season one finale, the staging of that scene is so precise, so as to hit you with maximum emotional impact - The fact that Jessica and her mom are on this ferris wheel from her childhood, talking one minute, and then the next it's Jessica and her dead mother's body... The layers of tragedy on top of nostalgia here are just...oof. You're right, it's devastating.

Bethany: We don't see on television that moment of death with a lot of main characters, when it's that sudden. We either miss the moment of death and see them a few moments after, or you see it happen slowly in some way, or you just hear about it. We see it [here]. And it's really shocking and traumatic. This is a totally random show to tie it to, but one of those last scenes in Breaking Bad, where we see--

SJ: I haven't finished Breaking Bad. I've only seen a couple episodes. Sorry!

Bethany: Okay, I'm not going to say anything then. You have to watch Breaking Bad!

SJ: Yeah, I know. I know.

Bethany: Krysten Ritter's in it. That was how I was familiar with her first, I saw her in that show, where she has a semi-significant role.

SJ: Right.

Bethany: Anyway, so we'll go back to--

SJ: So the last season of Breaking Bad is similar? We don't have to get into spoilers, but people who have seen Breaking Bad will know what you're talking about maybe?

Bethany: Yeah, we don't have to get into it or whatever. But basically, seeing this character, who you don't know if you're ready to say goodbye to, and then [they die] and it is a tragedy and a total devastation for the main character... Yeah, it affects you. It's like when you're reading a good book and you lose one of your favorite characters. You know, there's a sense of loss. And Jessica's mother wasn't one of my favorite characters, but the impact it had on Jessica kind of was [the equivalent].

SJ: [to listener] We really feel the weight of Alisa's death, continuing into the next season. At the beginning of season three, Jessica is still kind of in mourning, and we find out she hasn't spoken to Trish in over a year. Join us next time for the conclusion of our Jessica Jones series, when we break down all of season three: Sallinger, Hellcat, that finale, which...we both had a lot of feelings about. Next week we laugh, cry, rage and say goodbye to the show that meant so much to us.

If you'd like to share your thoughts on Jessica Jones, you can still do that. We'd love to hear from you. Just record a voice memo on your phone and send it to [email protected], or tweet at me @popculty. I'd love to include your voice in the next episode. Many thanks to Reuben "Tihi" Haylsett for sharing his writing with us. You can find his book Dark Corners available on Amazon. Thank you again to L'orchestra Cinematique for letting us use their great Jessica Jones main theme cover throughout this series. Check out their album Geek Tunes available on Amazon. If you've been enjoying the show, please consider chipping in just a few dollars to help us reach that goal. Your support keeps the show ad-free.

The show is produced by yours truly. All clips used in this episode are property of Marvel and ABC Studios, used herein under the Fair Use clause of Section 107 of the Copyright Act. Interview clips used in this episode are courtesy of their aforementioned, respective owners. Until next time: Support women directors, stay critical, and always demand representation!

[Jessica Jones theme plays out]

#the popculty podcast #podcast #transcript #jessica jones #kilgrave #david tennant #trishica #alisa jones

1 note · View note

hencethebravery · 7 years ago

Text

Title: “Beating Hearts,” (1/1)

Summary: He assumes he’ll tell him before he leaves for active duty. That’d make sense, right? Only his tongue kinda gets caught in the back of his throat and all he can offer is a platonic pat on the back. David Nolan falls in love with his best friend. It is a mistake. CC AU.

Notes: @mahstatins sent me a snail mail fic prompt and this was it. Bask in the glory of her lovely handwriting. Title from “Beating Hearts” by King Charles. Which you should def listen to. Also on Ao3.

+ Killian’s practically one giant bruise the first time they meet. He’s small and thin and David overhears a library aid refer to him as “wild.” But he likes to share his lunch even though there’s not a lot of it, and he likes spitting in August Booth’s milk every time he picks on one of their classmates. The first time he’d caught him doing it, a giant glob of mucus hanging from the corner of his mouth, David had just sat there, slack-jawed, as Killian offered up a very lame “wink” using his left and right eye—mere moments before it plopped quite mercilessly into the carton below.

Thinking back, he’s shocked that they ever became friends. David was what some lovingly referred to as a goody-goody; a bright eyed, well-behaved little gentleman who very rarely got into trouble, if ever, and who performed quite adequately in all of his classes. As far as the rest of their community knew, his family was relatively normal, at least when they knew people were watching.

“Your da yells a lot,” Killian had observed one morning after their very first playdate, his brow furrowed as he searched around the table for the right color to use.

David hadn’t really known what to say, because yes, of course his father yelled a lot, but no one was supposed to know that. And if they did know, they certainly weren’t supposed to say anything about it.

“That’s ok,” he had continued, furiously filling in a ship’s sail with a bright, neon pink, “my da yells a lot too.”

If David had to pinpoint a guess, he’d have to say that was it. The moment he’d decided Killian would be a good friend. He never made a big deal of anything, or at least, he never made a big deal of the things that were bigger deals inside your own head. And a lot of things were insurmountable in his own head.

“Just put these in his drink,” Killian had suggested one day in middle school, dropping two pills into David’s hand. “Liam used to do it all the time. Old man was out for hours.”

It wasn’t all doom and gloom of course, the both of them faced their fair share of challenges, but it was also idyllic in a lot of ways. Growing older was a blessing for them both, but David couldn’t help but think of it as a bit of a curse when all his memories started to blur further and further together. Before Killian leaves for his first tour, he tries to think back and it’s not unlike sitting on a train. When you’re on the train, right? You look out the window and the world is just speeding past you without a care for how slow you’d like to be going—caring very little for what you’d like to remember, and if you try too hard to pick out anything specific you grow a bit nauseous.

There’s a few moments frozen in his mind, aside from the traumatic ones, which books have informed him he is helpless to forget and slated to remember for the rest of his life, that he returns to again and again, moments with Killian he prays he’ll never forget.

15.

It is August, school starts in one week, and they are mere days away from becoming high schoolers. Technically, Killian still has one more year in middle school, but his grades were so off-the-charts awesome, the administration had no choice but to advance him a year. Everyone was surprised, but David wasn’t. Not really. He’s seen the chest in Killian’s room—the one full of books that only Liam knows about. Secretly, he’d always hoped more people would notice how smart Killian is, even though it’s not really the “cool” thing to be. Regardless, he is proud to be one of the few people that always knew, and where have these people even been?

“You can’t really blame them, mate,” Killian says from his place at David’s side, legs dangling over the edge of the railing, “I was an ill-formed beastie.”

“I still don’t see why we have to do this,” David answers, swallowing nervously, the heat on the back of his neck almost unbearable. “The public pool would work just fine.”

“My apologies, do you prefer swimming in urine? Because I’d rather not.”

A lot of kids make this jump, it’s not a totally out-of-the-blue suggestion, but it is quite high up, and for all his righteous indignation, David’s never been as brave as he’d like. Not as brave as Killian. A truck zooms behind them, ruffling his hair and for the love of God, urine sounds damn fine right now.

In his memory, Killian is in technicolor and the rest of the world is sepia-toned. Kind of like The Wizard of Oz. He can remember the warmth of the air that day, how it had been so oppressively warm, even the odd breeze had failed to offer any relief. The smell of the lake beneath their feet, the fetidness of of still water and heavy, bloated plant life. At some point, Killian’s hand comes up to smack at a mosquito buzzing around his neck, and that’s when he’d noticed it—the shape of his jaw, the smattering of hair on his neck and chin, the elegant length of his fingers, the tips of them callused from all that guitar playing.

“You ready?” he had asked, seemingly oblivious to Dave’s attention, his eyes practically sparkling with excitement. “Shall we count to three?”

“We don’t need to ‘count to three,’” David mumbled, trying to ignore the tumult of anxious butterflies beating their wings against the inside of his stomach.

Killian grinned knowingly, grabbing David’s fingers and releasing his death-grip on the railing. The whole jump probably happened in about 5 seconds, but in David’s memory, time came to a grinding halt as they stood on that lip of concrete, the hot metal of the railing digging into their backs. He can recall the final squeeze of Killian’s fingers, the distant shout of a child, and then, “Three!”

Into the dark water they plunged, with Killian’s fingers still curled around his own.

It’s been two years since he laid eyes on Killian Jones. In that time he’s finished two years of undergrad, moved out of his parent’s house, adopted a dog, and written terrible poetry about Killian’s hands.

“Seriously, it’s fucking terrible.”

“Don’t be so hard on yourself buck-o,” Ruby warbles pleasantly, falling onto his shoulder to maintain her balance. “I’m sure it’s perfectly lovely.”

Ruby is David’s roommate, but she’s almost never there. Which is... odd, but he can’t really judge her for it. He’s the idiot who’s been in love with his best friend for three years and never said anything. The unbelievably enormous idiot who let his best friend leave for the freaking Navy without telling him the truth.

“What if I never see him again? Do you realize that at any given moment this country is prepared to go to actual war? Like with… bullets and... stuff?”

“Excuse me, ‘and stuff?’” Ruby cackles, taking another swig of tequila, “I think it’s a little more complicated than that.”

“I don’t think so,” he answers, grabbing the bottle before it shatters against the pavement, “I listen to a lot of podcasts. I know what I’m talking about.”

12.

Killian’s father leaves around Christmas. Which is around when, incidentally, they get into their first big fight. They’ve had fights before of course, they’re full of weird hormones and their brains are basically on fire, it’s a miracle they can even hold a conversation. But this is one of those fights that makes David feel as if his heart has dropped into his stomach; and his throat is always sore, and even though his mom says it’s because he’s catching the bug that’s going around, he knows it’s because he hasn’t spoken to Killian in a week.

He had wanted to ditch school and steal cigarettes from the gas station on the corner. Started taking sips from Dave’s father’s liquor cabinet, not to mention blowing off all their friends so he could listen to angry music on his headphones and throw eggs off the highway overpass.

“You need to calm down or you’re gonna get in trouble,” Dave had insisted forcefully, the moral compass spinning wildly inside his head urging him to save his best friend from a terrible fate. In hindsight, he definitely made it worse. Nothing an angry, hurt kid hates more than being lectured by an equally dramatic, equally small know-it-all.

“Oh, I need to ‘calm down?’” Killian answered quietly, pulling the headphones down around his neck. “Why don’t you mind your own business for once?”

“I’m just trying to help you!”

It would be the first and only time they’d get into an actual, physical altercation. David doesn’t like to think about it much, but it is, unfortunately, one of those signs or landmarks that might catch your eye while you’re staring out the train window. The feeling of Killian’s hand against his shoulder, his own feet staggering backwards. The sound of his choked voice, the suspicious, wet sheen over his eyes.

“I don’t need your help!” he yelled, shoving him again, “No one asked you to be here. Go back home to your perfect little life, Dave.”

He’s not proud of how he reacted, he could’ve just let him walk away. But, ya know, he was twelve. He was living at home with an alcoholic father and a mother who didn’t do much to get him to stop. Killian knew exactly what buttons to push, even when they were too young to really know why. David Nolan, the perfect, polite student. Everyone spent so much time assuming his life was a fairytale, any adult worth their salt had consistently failed to notice that he was drowning. Except Killian. Which was probably why it hurt so bad.

The next thing he remembers there’s some unnamed teacher pulling him off the best friend he’s ever had, wiping some blood away from his lips.

“Don’t bother coming over for Christmas,” David hissed, his face red and sweaty, “no one ever wanted you there anyway.”

“Not a problem,” he answered with a suspicious sniffling of his nose, swinging his backpack over his shoulder. “See ya never.”

That had been the only Christmas they’d spent apart until recently, and it had taken David months to forgive himself, even though Killian had forgiven him fairly readily. As twelve year old boys are wont to do.

“I was a prat,” he had said softly, his lip still a bit swollen. “I just miss him. And Liam’s angry all the time.”

“It’s okay,” David muttered quickly, “do you wanna come over and play video games?”

This past Christmas, Killian had sent him a card with an old, vintage illustration of a whale hunt gone wrong. “Mistakes were made,” is printed across the bottom, and David actually snorts when he tries to contain the literal guffaw.

“It’s cold here,” the letter reads in Killian’s steady, artful hand, “I miss my bed, and the freedom to eat shite and watch television whenever I’d like. Hope you’re well, mate. Miss your pancakes.”

It’s signed with a dramatically large “K” next to a poorly drawn Christmas tree, and David’s heart clenches in his chest. He wraps up a paperback copy of Moby Dick and sends it off to Killian’s fleet, but not before writing a note on the inside cover about how the whale probably isn’t worth losing a limb over.

17.

The first time he wonders whether or not he might be a little bit in love with his best friend is right after he finds out that he’s enlisted. Not that he’s thinking of enlisting, or considering his other non-collegiate options; no, he’s already enlisted. To say he’s blindsided by the whole thing is an understatement, not to mention the scar on his hand from the second degree burn after the fact.

A camping trip in June, right after high school graduation but a few months before Dave leaves for college in Canada. Which Killian was sure to give him endless grief about, only after he was sure David would bring him anything and everything flavored like maple syrup. There’s this spot in the woods they’d discovered when they were kids, it’s the absolute perfect camping spot. Far enough away that you can’t hear the highway, but close enough that you could walk there mildly intoxicated and not vomit.

There’s a creek nearby, some convenient tree-cover for those hotter days, and the fire pit they’d built years ago is still intact, so at this point in their lives, the trip itself could barely be considered “camping.” Regardless, it’s still a blast every time they go, packing up Dave’s dad’s truck with snacks, booze, sleeping bags, and Killian’s shitty telescope. Dave’s in the middle of throwing a log on the fire when he hears the news, hence the burn.

“So, I know I told you I hadn’t decided on a school yet,” he begins, taking a drag of his cigarette, “but really it’s because I decided to enlist in the Navy—”

Dave hisses at the flame licking up his thumb as Killian continues as if he hadn’t heard, “...with Liam.”

David likes Liam just fine, ok? The two of them had it real rough growing up, and it’s not like David can say he’d do anything different. He didn’t raise a younger brother when he was barely grown himself, working multiple jobs and paying off his father’s debts. He certainly didn’t raise a Killian Jones, all honor and stubbornness and a tendency towards making truly boneheaded mistakes. But still, while he understands Killian’s adoration of the guy, he’s also heard the backhanded compliments, the unrealistic expectations. The freaking hour long lectures about what Killian is supposed to be doing with his life. And he’s seen Killian afterwards, pretending that he’s not absolutely crushed at this summation of his character by the one person he loves most in the world.

“Oh,” David finally says, cradling his injured hand towards his chest, “Why?”

“I don’t know, seems a bit more exciting than sitting in a classroom, doesn’t it?”

“I… guess.”

It’s hard to know what to say when his hand feels like it’s still on fire, afraid to look down and see deformed, burned flesh. It’s doubly hard to know what to say when his heart has started to pound in a familiar, yet entirely unfamiliar way. It hurts in that same way it did when he’d seen Katherine at the dance with Jefferson in 8th grade. This hopeless, aching echo inside of his chest. What the hell is that?

“Bloody hell, Dave. You want some ointment for that?”

And then there’s the hustle and bustle of Killian’s movements around the fire, searching around for bandages and water and more alcohol, only there’s a buzzing in Dave’s ear that just keeps getting louder with every passing moment.

“You’re leaving?” he asks as Killian kneels in front of him, gingerly wrapping gauze around his hand. He pauses about halfway through and sighs, his eyes never straying from his task.

“Yeah, mate. In a few weeks.”

They don’t talk for a bit after that, their silence made louder in the wake of the crackling fire and chirping insects. His hand still kills, but he figures it must be the adrenaline—the way Killian’s eyes shine just a bit bluer in the glow of the dying fire, how his breath sounds steady and safe in his ear. The feeling of his rough fingertips every time they pass over a piece of unburned flesh, the hair on the back of his neck standing up.

It’s the next morning, on their drive back home that he considers just how long he’d let their hands linger together in the quiet of Killian’s revelation. How maybe it stopped being about his totally avoidable injury and more about the fact of their impending separation.

“We’ll go for a jump off the bridge before you leave, right?” he asks in front of Killian’s house, trying for a smile and failing.

“Only of course,” he’d answered winningly, his features betraying not even a hint of distress. “I wouldn’t miss it for the world.”

He doesn’t pick him up from the airport because the ambience of the airport is just asking for trouble. It’s a veritable melting pot of emotion. Whatever anyone’s feeling inside the airport at any given moment, chances are they’re feeling it at the absolute most that anyone could feel anything. No one is simply “happy” to see their loved one, rather, they’re overjoyed. You’re not “tired,” no, you’re fucking exhausted. He’s worried that, were he to pick Killian up from the airport, he’d do something ridiculous like run towards him in baggage claim and tackle him to the ground—or worse, make some bumbling confession of love. So, no, picking him up from the airport was definitely not an option.

He does have to show up at the welcome home party though, otherwise he’s just a dick.

“Dave!” Killian yells from somewhere in the crowd, his voice young and booming as he limps across the kitchen. “Was afraid you weren’t planning on showing, mate.”

“Of course not,” he answers, trying to avoid staring at his injured knee. Killian had already told him about the injury in a letter, something about an explosion below deck and being tossed into military grade hardware. No big deal. Sure.

“D’ya want a drink?”

The party is loud and hot and seems to go on forever. Killian and Liam’s house is filled with old friends from school, all of their faces blurring together with every new beer in his hand. Normally he’d be perfectly happy to catch up and reminisce, but on this night he plays the wallflower, awkwardly moving from conversation to conversation, trying to avoid the sound of Killian’s laugh and Killian’s voice and Killian’s hand on his shoulder every time he thinks he’s managed to escape.

He finally manages to stumble outside around 1 AM, his head only just starting to pound, and the notion of collapsing on top of his small, childhood bed is unlike any other feeling of relief he’s ever known in his life. He hears the “Oi!” at his back and tries very hard not to wince, turning to face Killian’s eager and slightly dejected grin.

“Where you off to?”

“Bed,” he answers sleepily, hoping to skip this conversation entirely, “gotta be up early in the morning.”

For one blissful moment, Killian looks contemplative, his hand coming up to artfully scratch at the almost-beard on his face. It had been too much to hope that he’d be able to leave with his dignity still intact, his secrets and bad poetry locked ever so carefully away. Far, far too much.

“How about a quick walk, then?” Killian asks quietly, suddenly appearing far more sober than David had thought. “For old time’s sake?”

They wind up at the old bridge of all places, a full moon shining dramatically over the surface of the still lake. It’s early fall, so it’s not bitterly cold yet, but pre-dawn hours in Maine can get pretty brisk, and David’s thankful for the thickness of the flannel around his shoulders. Killian’s outfit is far more impractical, which is just par for the course, really. Leather jacket zipped open, button-down shirt as equally revealing as the jacket that should do little in the way of warmth, but he seems to be faring just fine. Must be all those nights on the open ocean; far, far away from here.

“Do you recall the first time we jumped from here?” he asks in a whisper, his forearms leaning heavily against the rail.

“Yeah,” David replies, easily, as if he hadn’t obsessed over it for months. “Yeah, I remember.”

Killian pulls a cigarette out of his back pocket, and David makes a note of the slight shake in his hand as he lights it.

“So, you’re done now, right?” he asks hesitantly, breathing in the smoke and the cool crispness of the night air around them, the worn leather of Killian’s jacket. “You’re sticking around?”

“I don’t know,” smiling, crushing the butt of it against the railing and turning to stare up at the stars. “I was thinking of visiting Canada for a bit. Getting a look at the sights.”

This is it, David thinks, tracing the shape of Killian’s face in the moonlight, trying to ignore the new scar on his cheek, this is one of those things. Those memories, the ones you’re lucky enough to remember? It’s happening, right now, and he’s trying to be in the moment and appreciate it for what it is, only he’s having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that this could very well be one of those fleeting things—one of those inconsequential moments he won’t need to remember in 30 or 40 years.

That’s when he feels the warmth of Killian’s hand around his fingers, their roughness almost exactly as he can recall it in his memories of that night. It’s almost as if he can feel every line in his skin, every new layer of grief and hardship and happiness and it’s curving so wonderfully against the softness of his own.

“You are thinking far too loudly.”

Killian’s voice his hovering somewhere near the shell of his ear, soft and husky and full of delicious, heated breath that smells of tobacco and rum. The tip of his nose is somewhere around there too, perhaps resting closer to his earlobe, maybe at the corner of his jaw, but then it’s the brief wetness of his lips, the tip of his tongue.

“Killian—”

You know a kiss by the way it urges you to forget yourself. You can guess at its merit by how little you concern yourself with what might come after, or even what might have come before. The only other thing he can feel in that moment, aside from Killian’s lips against his own, is the feeling of his hand on the back of his head, his fingers tugging on his hair. He’d make a joke about trying to get his attention, only it’s pretty well in hand at the moment.

“I’ve been wanting to do that for ages,” Killian breathes the words into his mouth, his fingers loosening their grip in order to run down the length of his neck. “All I could think about.”

“Since when?”

“I don’t know,” he laughs, a strange shyness overtaking his countenance, “since I ever started wanting to kiss anybody.”

“I wish you’d told me sooner, could’ve saved the both of us a lot of trouble.”

“I know,” he answers, pulling away to look him in the eye. There’s a contentment there, something David had rarely seen in all the years they’d known one another, and he can only hope that it’s reflected back in his own; this feeling like maybe they were supposed to end up here all along.

Their fingers weave together and David can hear a dog bark, a car revving it’s engine, the water rippling beneath them with the breeze. It’s not totally unlike any other time they’d been here together, waiting for the jump, that feeling of weightlessness carrying them through one moment to the next. And but for the moon shining overhead the moment is the same, the two of them, side-by-side, falling through the air.

#ouat ff #cc ff #cc fanfic #captain charming #cc: saved my life #@hencethewriter #fic requests #mahstatins #ilu clare #i hope this meets ur expectations

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the-u-b-w-blr-blog · 7 years ago

Text

Apologies!

Hey there everyone! We were hoping to release episode 2 today, but it seems that won’t be possible. However, one of our voice actors did write up a transcript of the episode! Technically we could share the script, but a few things were changed up in the recording process so it doesn’t count much. So let’s thank AJ, our VA for David, for setting this one up! If you’d like to read it, just click the read more!

Xavier Washington: Hey Leon, did you- oh. Headset again.

Leon Hall: Huh? Oh- Xavier! Sorry. I was watching a video. A friend filmed us playing paintball, and I wanted to make sure there was nothing too embarrassing here before he decides to post it everywhere, because the guy has like, no self restraint at all.

Xavier Washington: We have homework, though. Did you actually do it or are you stalling?

Leon Hall: Man, we both know I always do homework early. What about you?

Xavier Washington: Basically done. Can I watch too?

Leon Hall: Sure, if you’ve got earbuds.

Xavier Washington: Always got those.

Leon Hall: Podcast nerd.

Xavier Washington: I like podcasts and you’re obsessed with any game involving shooting people, I vote myself the one in better condition.

Xavier Washington: Oh. You’ve got pretty good aim!

Leon Hall: Nah, not really. Plus, staying away from the other players doesn’t make for a good strategy. I was pretty bruised from the last match, though. Didn’t feel like getting hit as much this time.

Xavier Washington: Hm, that’s why I stick to laser tag. All the fun and none of the pain whatsoever.

Leon Hall: Yea, sounds too good to be true. Though I’ve heard there’s a group that uses the funds the school provides for clubs to go play that?

Xavier Washington: Oh? You mean people have finally noticed?

Leon Hall: Yea, I- wait, what?

Xavier Washington: Member of the U.B.W. and a siphoner of school funds, at your service!

Leon Hall: We’ve been friends for two years and you never told me you had access to free laser tag?

Xavier Washington: Well, I can’t tell ANYONE all willy-nilly! What’s that phrase Cici and Maria love? The best secrets are the ones you haven’t told?

Leon Hall: Explain telling me now, then?

Xavier Washington: You’re my best friend, you’re responsible, interested in games with guns, AND already aware the group exits. Doesn’t really break any promises anymore.

Leon Hall: Promises?

Xavier Washington: All of us made a deal not to tell unless it was to a friend who already knew. I really wanted to tell you though! I swear that, at least.

Leon Hall: Dude, it’s fine. I get it, even if I would’ve liked to know. Question though. What the hell does U.B.W. stand for?

Xavier Washington: Okay, that- that joke requires backstory. And I don’t tell it as well as the others. Actually, maybe they could tell you. And maybe you could play with us! We meet Fridays- would you want to join?

Leon Hall: Free paintball minus pain? Do you even need to ask?

Leon Hall: I swear to god, Xavier, if you don’t hurry up, I’m going to take off and leave you behind!

Xavier Washington: Labor to keep alive in your breast that little spark of celestial fire, called conscience.

Leon Hall: That was another founding fathers quote, wasn’t it?

Xavier Washington: George Washington, yes. I’m going fast as I can, Leon!

Leon Hall: I know, I know- Sorry! I’m just excited!

Elizabeth Lee: Where are they? I know Xavier’s usually late, but this is insane! We’re going to have to go in without our scout, at this rate. How do we take down the base and cover ground without both of our scouts?

Julia Taylor: I can always take a scout position, Lizzy- besides, David can handle scouting on his own for one day. It’s the small arena today, right?

Elizabeth Lee: Yes, it is- that’s why you can’t take scout position, Julia. We need defenders. It’s too easy for them to reach our base on such a small turf.

Cici Diaz: Hey, why does Julia get to call you Lizzy? You never let us call you Lizzy!

Kane Jones: The girl is stressed and distracted, she could care less about nicknames. Elizabeth, since it’s so small, and I remember it having lots of tall walls and obstacles… one of us could take a scouting position? Sniping them when there’s a thousand walls in the way gets a lot harder with no higher ground.

Elizabeth Lee: True, but it usually makes the difference in how many people reach our base either way. No, best we stick to the usual spots- you, in the hidden room by the side of the blue base, and me behind the wall next to ours.

Xavier Washington: H-Here! We’re here!

David Williams: We?

Xavier Washington: I brought a friend! From coding class, remember? He’s really good at paintball, so I invited him to join! I bet he could be great at laser tag, too! Oh, uh- Leon, everyone. Everyone, Leon!

Leon Hall: Uh… hey? I know, like, half of you. Did NOT expect this to be the group that uses club funds to play laser tag, honestly.

Julia Taylor: Hey, I know you! You’re the one that falls asleep in English every class!

Leon Hall: To be fair, who stays awake during Smith’s lectures?

Elizabeth Lee: As much as I dislike those who fall asleep in class, he has a point. Xavier- aren’t we NOT supposed to spread the word of what we spend club meetings doing?

Xavier Washington: I mean, I got excited when I watched him play so I sort of invited him?

Kane Jones: Well, if he’s cute and can handle a gun, I’m not complaining!

Maria Barrios: Seriously, Kane? No es tan lindo. Me parece que nunca sale de la casa.

Leon Hall: Wait, what? Maria?

Kane Jones: My cousin speaks spanish when she doesn’t want someone she’s friends with to know what she’s saying- which is RUDE, but she won’t listen. She’s saying that you aren’t that cute, cause you look like you never leave the house, but personally I think the neon green headphones, slightly baggy sweater, messy curly hair, sort of gamer look suits you!

Leon Hall: I… uh, thanks?

Kane Jones: You’re welcome!

Elizabeth Lee: We… don’t have time to continue introductions, I think. The match starts any minute- we should get into the arena, get into position. Leon? You’re on trial run. Get an accuracy score of at least 50%, and more points than David, and I’ll consider letting you join us in matches. Deal?

David Williams: You should know I never score below 15,000 points a match.

Leon Hall: So, strong silent type I need to best to complete the quest? Sure, I can do this.

Xavier Washington: Then welcome to the team! For now. Come on, I’ll show you a good starting point to get to the enemy base without getting spotted!

Julia Taylor: Are you sure about this, Lizzy? We pass as a generally academically inclined club, and I’m not sure what adding him to our roster could do. What if the new principal starts to question the sudden new member?

Elizabeth Lee: I don’t think he’ll bother a club that’s been standing a solid three years, now. Not his first year, at least. By the time he tackles clubs, we’ll be gone. What harm could it be? And who knows, we might find a new friend here.

David Williams: I don’t know, Elizabeth. Chances are that the increase in club spending might draw his attention. I keep us mostly under wraps, but there’s only so much paperwork you can hide the spending under.

Elizabeth Lee: Oh come on, have a little faith! Xavier hasn’t been this excited about someone in a while- and he’s the one that brought us all together, remember? This could be good for us. Now, let's get in position. And David?

David Williams: Yes?

Elizabeth Lee: Guarantee this is a challenge, would you? And tell Cici… she can have free range this match.

David Williams: Yes, Ma’am.

Announcer: Heeeeelllo there everyone! Now, both teams signed up to battle today have been fighting here for a few years- they’re the best here! So let’s give a huge round of applause fooooooor- The U.B.W! Reigning champions, their team is a well oiled machine, ready to bounce and cover each other at any minute! Their team captain, with alias Zenith, is notoriously hard to find and harder to hit- let’s see if they can keep rising to the challenge against…. The R.E.D! Always coming close behind, never quite winning but conquering anyone else below them! Team captain, with alias Hellfire, operates much like U.B.W. member Paragon- a wild card, you can never tell just what trick they’re going to play! This promises to be an interesting match- so lights out, vests on, and let’s see how it goes!

Xavier Washington: Alright, we can’t talk much- go for the base, and I’ll stay close for cover! Do you remember the path I showed you?

Leon Hall: I- yeah, I do, but I think I’ve got another idea. Do you mind if I split off and go for it?

Xavier Washington: If you think it’s a good idea? Just don’t tell Maria. She’s the one that keeps us working as a team when we're in training- she doesn’t like the whole separating thing.

Leon Hall: Guess I’m not telling Maria, then. Good luck, Xavier!

Maria Barrios: Shoot- Cici, we need backup! They’re already here!

Maria Barrios: Nevermind- they weren’t that fast.

Julia Taylor: We’ve got this. Kane has kept most of them running for their respawn point the moment they get close enough to start attacking- we’ll be fine.

Maria Barrios: I know, I know- I hate this small field, though. So many obstacles- it's so easy to lose sight of where you’re shooting!

Julia Taylor: That’s life, Mari.

Leon Hall: Almost there- hey, do they not have defenders….? A wide open base… Hold on!

Leon Hall: Sniper- that’s how they defend the base, and let the rest of their players run towards ours! If I can just hit the base, it’s instant game over- wait, no, it’s three times in a row, isn’t it?

Cici Diaz: Oh, by the way boys, if you all run in groups I can shoot you all down at once before you spot me! Try to spread out, maybe hide a little! Then, just maybe you’ll land a hit!

Leon Hall: Did you just-

Cici Diaz: Give advice to the enemy? Yep! They hate it when I do that. Toodles!

Leon Hall: That- sure. Ok. Now… got to take down the sniper…

Leon Hall: Shoot! Nearly got them-

Leon Hall: Got it! Base undefended, just gotta….

Announcer: Aaaaaaaaand it’s game over folks! The U.B.W. may have taken some heavy fire, but in the end their newest member took down the defense and the base while the rest of the team focused on getting through enemy lines! Better luck next time, R.E.D! And that’s the match!

Kane Jones: That was a fun match! Oooooh, I got so many points, I don’t know what to do with them!

Cici Diaz: Ah, not as many as me, though!

Kane Jones: I did get an overall higher accuracy stat than you did, though. That counts for a lot.

Cici Diaz: A happy trigger finger takes a few sacrifices, Kane. And that’s all I can say! Oh, Leon! How’d you do?

Leon Hall: A… 47% accuracy, and 10,354 points? Plus the base claim.

Xavier Washington: Oh, that’s super good for your first time though! Even if it… probably isn’t enough for Elizabeth to let you on the team.

Elizabeth Lee: Who said it wasn’t enough? All I did was give him incentive and a goal. It was too much to ask of someone who had never played the game before- but his score surprises me anyway.

Maria Barrios: Even I admit, the gamer boy has potential.

Leon Hall: So… am I in?

Elizabeth Lee: If you’d like to be. We practice Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays, time varies. Matches are always on Fridays. You’re free to join and improve your accuracy- you could make a good Wild Card, with a little work.

Leon Hall: Thanks! I’ll do my best not to let you guys down- this was fun! And way, way less painful than paintball, honestly.

Julia Taylor: It’s part of the reason we picked it! Keeps the clothes less dirty, too.

Xavier Washington: You know what doesn't help keep clothes clean but is incredible anyways?Pizza! I say we go get some and celebrate a new member!

Cici Diaz: oooooh, can we go to the pizza place next to Nitrogen ice cream, please? Pretty please?

Elizabeth: I don't see why not. Can all of us go?

Maria: I can go if Kane skips his skincare routine for the night.

Kane: For pizza and ice cream on a Friday night? I can sacrifice some time. Does anyone else need a ride?

Xavier: Me and Leon can go on our bikes. Do you have a ride, Cici?

Cici: …No. My mom dropped me off here and I don't want to bother her on such short notice.

Maria: You'll come with us, then. Julia, I'm guessing you'll go with Elizabeth?

Julia: Do I ever not? Oh wait- can I, Lizzy?

Elizabeth: Do you ever not? Of course you can. David?

David: I borrowed Ms. Lissa’s car for the night and she doesn't need it back till tomorrow. I've got my way there.

Elizabeth: Then it's settled! We’ll meet up there!

#The U.B.W #transcript #apologies

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tuckinpodcast-blog · 7 years ago

Text

EPISODE 5: EVERYONE WANTS TO BE CARY GRANT

LISTEN: SOUNDCLOUD / iTUNES / GOOGLE PLAY

NOTES: None of any real consequence, except that this week, I’m going to try and start some new features on the blog this week, including a movie and book recommendation and some extra information pertaining to episodes.

SOURCES: listed at end of transcript

TRANSCRIPT:

Hi, I'm Jack, and this is Tuck In, We're Rolling: Queer Hollywood Stories. This week, we're going to be talking about Cary Grant and his husband. I think I've mentioned before that I've been in love with Cary Grant for most of my life – the funny thing is that after I had to watch To Kill A Mockingbird in high school I thought he was Gregory Peck, but then I realized my mistake. I don't remember what I saw him in first or why I even ended up so fixated on him, but I very vividly remember watching Arsenic and Old Lace and just being completely captivated. Maybe I'm just sort of into tall, dark, and handsome, but for whatever reason, I collected information and little tidbits about him for forever. Like the bit about how he and Clark Gable would swap monogrammed presents if they didn't like what they had gotten, or that he had once been married to the girl from City Lights.

I really started this podcast for two reasons. The first one is that I'm totally and unbelievably in love with Montgomery Clift and when David Thomson talked garbage about him in The Whole Equation, I wanted to set the record straight, and I'll get to that in a future episode. The second reason is that, as I've talked about before, when I decided to get angry at David Thomson and write a massive rant on my personal tumblr, I mentioned that I had only recently learned that Cary Grant was gay. Someone replied to my post correcting me that he was actually bisexual, and kind of a shitty person. I'm not the type to accept things at face value, and I also like to look at famous people as real, complex people who might be twenty stories tall in our memory, but were really just actual human beings, out in the world making terrible decisions and drinking too much wine when they were supposed to do something important.

So, I went digging. I went digging and I didn't really stop. I read everything I could find about Cary Grant – I read the things that denied that he had same-sex relationships, I read the things that said he was exclusively gay, I read the things that said he was bisexual. I watched his movies – mostly for entertainment, but also as an excuse to try and peel back the persona. My favorite thing about Cary Grant has always been his face and the way he could contort it. He actually got his start as a tumbler and acrobat, and he's this very tall, gangly thing – but somehow, even with all the physical acting he did, it's still the way he expresses his emotions on his face that I like the best. It's pretty well-known that he put on the Cary Grant persona deliberately. He almost considered “Cary Grant” to be someone entirely different and apart from his real self.

At the end of all this digging, what did I come up with? As I'm sure you're not surprised to hear: the content of this podcast.

Cary Grant was born Archie Leach in Bristol on January 18, 1904. His parents, Elsie and Elias, were working-class, and dysfunctional as hell. When he was nine, Elias told Archie that his mother had gone away on holiday, then changed the story to say that she had died. He didn't find out until he was 31 that he had been lied to, and his father had in fact put Elsie away in a sanitarium. Eventually, Elias abandoned Archie and moved away to marry someone else and start a new family. Archie ran away from home at one point to join the Pender Troupe of acrobats, but when they found out that he was seriously underage, he was dragged back to school. At that point, he did a pretty good job of being a very poor student, until he was thrown out of school. He toured with the troupe full-time starting in 1918 at the age of fourteen.

I think here I'd like to pause and reflect on Grant's childhood. It's very clearly a messed up situation, with his father running off and the whole thing with his mother. It's been said that the way his mother was very standoffish and selective with her affection directly contributed to the way Grant handled his relationships with women in his adult life, and I think that's true. I also think that the kind of pain of a childhood like this really directly impacted his acting. I'm not terribly familiar with the things he did with Hitchcock in the 50's and 60's, but I am familiar with his screwball comedies of the late 30's and early 40's. That old line about depressed people being the funniest really rings true in this case.

So, in 1920, Archie gets on the RMS Olympic to come to America to tour with the Pender Troupe. There's been some biographers who claim that Dougie Fairbanks Sr and Mary Pickford were on the boat and took a shine to Archie, but accounts vary. He wouldn't star in any movies until 1930, and he wouldn't become really famous until about 1937. That's a lot of years touring – whether he was tumbling or acting in plays – between his arrival and his big break. So you know, what was he doing in that interrim?

Cary Grant met Orry Kelly – who went on to become a very famous costume designer – in 1925. Still Archie at the time, he was twenty-one, broke, and had nowhere to go. Orry-Kelly took Archie in, and so the rumor goes, they became romantically involved. In Cary Grant: A Biography, Marc Elliot talks about this relationship quite a bit, mentioning the drama and the arguing that went on. Elliot says that the two had a row at a party and the host sniffed and asked if everyone was just going to sit there and let this blatant homosexuality continue in front of them. In Kelly's lost autobiography, he mentions that he was annoyed with Archie's penchant for blonde women, but proudly said that Archie “always came home to me.” While I was researching this podcast, I also came across some information that pointed to Grant as being abusive towards Orry-Kelly. And the things that I came across were pretty shocking – Grant supposedly knocked Kelly out several times and threw Kelly out of a moving vehicle once. This isn't entirely out of character for Grant, I'll admit – it was well-known that he was abusive towards his wives, going so far as to fly into a blind rage and crash his car into Virginia Cherrill's parked one while she visited an ex of hers. But the things he did to his wives was well-documented. I had never heard of him acting this way towards Kelly, and even though I shouldn't be surprised and it didn't take all that much digging to find out about it, I wanted to take this moment to sort of talk about how domestic violence in queer relationships really is a problem that people don't like to talk about or look into. At least at the time, two men being in a relationship with one another – it's been said that physical violence was almost expected, just due to the nature of the times and the nature of the toxic masculinity of the time. There's a part of me that kind of just thinks that's a bullshit excuse for queer abusers, but if we go back to our Valentino episode and remember the way that the general public reacted to a man just being pretty, and even if we look at the pressures of traditional masculinity and how violence is a supposedly “masculine” trait – maybe, at least, back then, it's half bullshit excuse and half explanation. It might be an explanation, but it doesn't have to be forgiven. You can be expected to do something and still know that it's wrong. I don't want to come off as apologizing for Grant's behavior, because it was unacceptable then and it's unacceptable now, but at least we can look at the times and the environment and get a better picture of the entire situation.

Cary Grant was a very famous man, a very neurotic man, and I think also, a very lonely and scared man, but the fact remains that he was abusive towards his partners, and I'll admit that this has changed my overall picture of him and dimmed my crush on him – and there's a whole other discussion to be had about supporting people who were known to be abusers or even just not very nice people after they've been dead for a long time, you know, things that maybe weren't known or at least well-known while they were alive, or supporting someone's art versus condemning their personal behavior, but I think it's a thought for another time.

So, Archie and Kelly, despite their tumultuous relationship, are more or less together through 1932. When Archie goes to Hollywood in 1930, he stays with Kelly until he gets his feet under him. In 1931, he changes his name at the urging of Paramount studios. Archie Leach becomes Cary Grant – or I think maybe I should say, Cary Grant becomes the persona that Archie Leach could slip into comfortably, allowing him to kind of become someone else and minimize the anxiety that existing in the world gave him. In 1932, Cary Grant meets Randolph Scott, and the two move into a beautiful house by the beach together, known in the press and to their friends as “Bachelor Hall”.

As with Garbo and Dietrich, Randolph Scott was the polar opposite of Cary Grant. He was born into a well-off Virginian family and wanted for nothing when he was growing up. He went to private schools, had a large family, and went off to serve in the Army during World War 1. He returned home in 1919 after attending an officer's school in France, and went to Georgia Tech with dreams of becoming a football star. He transferred to the University of North Carolina after a back injury put his football dreams on hold, but he eventually dropped out of school altogether to go and work as an accountant at a textile firm where his father also worked.

It was around 1927 that he went to Hollywood. His father was friends with Howard Hughes, and sent Scott along with a letter to meet the millionaire. Hughes plays into our early Hollywood stories quite a bit, as I'm sure you've realized by now, and he eventually gave Scott a part in a romantic comedy. Scott did a lot of stage work as bit characters, and eventually got a deal at Paramount – where he met Cary Grant on the set of Hot Saturday. At this point, a lot of biographers start to differ. The two certainly did meet on the set of Hot Saturday, but Orry Kelly's autobiography itself points to Kelly being the one who introduced the two. They moved in together almost immediately, by some accounts to “save costs” and by others because they legitimately cared for one another.

The two would live together on and off for twelve years. Scott became a point of contention in Grant's first marriage – the one to Virginia Cherrill, of City Lights fame. Grant refused to move out of the house on the beach at first, and Cherrill was furious over it. The marriage itself was rushed and was basically the studios putting the squeeze on Grant to marry someone, anyone, lest the gossip columnist Heda Hopper call him “not normal” in another one of her rags. The marriage would last less than a year, when Cherrill would claim that Grant had no sexual interest in her whatsoever, and he was drunk and sullen throughout most of their time together. She also claimed that he hit her – and we've already talked about that a little bit in this episode, but I want to share with you a thought I had while I reading the Elliot biography of Grant.

So, let's pan back and look at Grant's life for a second. He was abandoned by his father, had a troubled relationship with his mother, and basically made his own way in the world without any real influences to base his life and actions on. The way he acted with Cherrill, flying into jealous rages and acting possessive, was, in my opinion, Grant's caricature of a straight man and how a husband was supposed to act. I'm going to talk a lot about the way that queer men internalize misogyny and homophobia in the Monty Clift episode, but I think this is a good jumping point. Again, this isn't an excuse for the way that Grant acted towards his wives and partners, but I think that it's interesting to look at the way that society shapes a person's perceptions. Grant acted like a jealous lunatic because he thought that's how a man should act. He should have known that it was wrong and he should have been better than that, but he didn't and he wasn't.

Getting back to the story, it's very interesting to me that a lot of the articles on Randolph Scott that I find cast doubts on a romantic relationship between him and Grant. Scott's son flat-out denied the rumors, and Bud Boetticher, who directed Scott in seven films over the course of his career, called them “bullshit”. Even Scott's biographer says that there's no evidence that Scott and Grant were ever romantically involved. But, when you go on over to source material on Grant, they're very much on the other side. And, now, I'm going to try and get a link up to a series of photographs that were shot of Grant and Scott at the Bachelor Hall – they document a sort of “day in the life” of the two men, swimming in their pool and running lines while Scott reclines in a chair and Grant lays with his head at Scott's feet. There's one of them in the kitchen together cooking, both of them wearing aprons. There's one of them just looking at each other lovingly.

So, maybe the rumors are true, and maybe they aren't. The pair lived together through at least one marriage each, until the studios finally pressured them into moving out in 1940. They made a movie together the same year – the only movie they would make together – called My Favorite Wife, and instead of choosing separate hotel suites for the location shots, they roomed together, raising more than just a few eyebrows. Most of the first-hand material I've found says that they weren't intimate partners, which – okay. Fine. Even Grant's daughter claims they weren't true, but adds that Grant liked to let the gay rumors fly, so that when he bagged a woman, they felt “special” – gross. Gross, and a little creepy. And honestly, not out of character for Grant, knowing what we know about him now. There are people who claim to have caught Scott and Grant holding hands in a semi-private moment late in their lives, and there are people who claim to have been involved with both of them in the menage-trois sense of the word.

So, where does this leave us? As with most early Hollywood queer stories: we're in gay limbo. Were they, weren't they. There's evidence that goes both ways. Is this just a story about two men who were very close, very good friends, but in American society, we can't view that as anything but gay? Marc Elliot posits that Grant's same-sex attraction goes back to his school days in England, when boys just messed around like that. Maybe it's that. I think I've done an okay job of explaining what a complicated man Cary Grant was – abandoned, neurotic, hypochondriac. He had an addict's personality – first with smoking and drinking, and then later in life, he micro-dosed with acid to keep his anxiety and depression in check. I personally think that Grant is one of the best examples of stars being, ultimately, human. He was deeply flawed and seriously insecure – famously, he sued Chevy Chase for calling him a “homo” in the 80's. Me, personally? I think Grant was a confused, lonely person who took solace from the people that gave it to him, no matter their gender. Regardless of the stories, the rumors and even the truth, what we're left with is: the story of Cary Grant. A man with a charming smile, a devastating personal life, and the acting chops to be named the number two actor of the twentieth century, sliding in right after Humphrey Bogart.

A quick aside before I leave you: I'm going to try and do something a little new starting this week, and that's posting up little blog entries on our tumblr called “Things We Missed This Week”. Basically, it's the parts of a story that ended up cut out of the episode for time or clarity's sake in blog post form so you can have a little extra information. There's a lot I didn't talk about on our last episode, and there's enough information about Cary Grant to fill several books, so I thought that maybe it would be a nice way to give you guys a better picture of what I'm talking about here. This week, I'm also going to start leaving book and movie recommendations on the blog so you guys can maybe get a chance to watch some of my favorites and we can open up some discourse there.

Thank you so much for listening to Tuck In, We're Rolling: Queer Hollywood Stories. This episode was written, researched, edited and recorded by me, Jack Segreto. I wanna take a minute to pause here and give a special shout out to tumblr users amiddleearththemedbarinhogsmeade and detectivejoan for saying nice things about the podcast and blowing up my head a little bit. Thanks, folks. It really means a lot to me. You can find a transcript of this episode and all of our episodes, along with facts, photos, and recommendations, on our tumblr, tuckinpodcast.tumblr.com. You can also give us a like on Facebook at facebook.com/tuckinpodcast. We accept messages on both of those platforms, so feel free to shoot us any suggestions for show topics or comments you might have. We put out new episodes every Wednesday, and you can listen to us on SoundCloud, iTunes and Google Play, so don't forget to rate and subscribe to us! We'll be back next Wednesday to discuss Marlon Brando, gay rumors, and his impact on Hollywood masculinity. See you next time!

SOURCES:

Cary Grant: A Biography, Elliot, Marc ()

Cary Grant & Randolph Scott: A Gay Hollywood Romance

Inside Cary Grant’s Secret Life With Men

Was Cary Grant Secretly Gay?

Cary Grant & Randolph Scott: A Love Story

Wikipedia. You guys know I only use it for biographical facts and pertinent details, right?

#( TRANSCRIPTS & SHOW NOTES. )#( EPISODE 5. )#queer history #queer history podcast #hollywood history #hollywood history podcast #cary grant #orry kelly #randolph scott #new podcast #[ i'll get a few of the photos from the shoot mentioned in the episode up in just a hot one #they're g r e a t ]

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