#like yes there can and should be more than one queer main character in things

[magic-owl]

there is a CANON LESBIAN MAIN CHARACTER. has her storyline been totally perfect? no! it could be better! but she has a healthy and loving relationship that is fleshed out and explored and her identity is treated with respect and it matters so so much to the story and it would not be the same without her.

but here people go flinging around “queerbait” and “homophobia” like wet monkey poo because their fandom flagship ship isn’t canon come on you guys

[scarefox]

Haven't watched anything KristSingto recently but he's right

You can think of fanservice what you want. But the moment you want to police or censor it, it turns into something really problematic. And this stance comes from 2 or even 3 different oppinioned sides but they ironically melt into the same outcome.

But at the end of the day most people forget / ignore, regardless of anything, fanservice still helps normalising public queer affection. And let's be real, most of the stuff in those stage and event shows are that... a show or even a performance! Do you protest at your local theater when they have queer characters kissing? Do you notice how this sounds in a sentence? Yes actors are real people and not characters but especially BL actors & idols still perform stage shows and kind of have a public enertainer persona. You notice how different they are on stage vs. in their personal live streams + nowadays most actors are even very honest about just doing fs for show & fun and often genuine (platonic) affection towards their acting partner but don't pretend to be actual dating (and the ones who do will most likely not lightheartedly come out with it like that... apparently there are exceptions but I have not enough insight on them to judge). You should watch some serious interviews or live stream (translations) of your favs now and then maybe to learn more about them and the industry, they are more than just pretty faces... Actors in just my bubble who talked open about the fanservice topic as far as legally possible at least: JamesSu, Perth Nakhun and I guess we can count Pavel and Nut as well.

What fans make out of it is a whole different story.... and one of the reasons people want to shut down fanservice as a whole. But imagine how lighthearted, fun and easy going this whole thing could be if we didn't had all these toxic naive fans who think every interaction is proof of actors dating (or worse: cheating) in RL. That mindset of "we are BL fans of course we are delulu" is not a joke anymore among some of them. They srsly take pride in that... babes you are part of the problem, stop encouraging it!

Then on the other side, being critical of some of the practices of the industry is one thing but it should not lead into backwards queer censoring... but that's what some are swaying to with their "real people queerbait" agenda or getting the cringes when (samesex) people interact romantically or erotically during live events (that's a bit of a you thing my dears. not necessarily in a queerphobic way but in a purity / shy way and that is a you problem to deal with not anyone elses problem)....

And a lot of people don't even understand or get what most people criticise about fanservice and just jump onto the ban-fanservice train. Without understanding the nuances nor the actual industry circumstances. Like one main argument here isn't even true. Lot of people assume actors get forced into fs. Which is not true (source: one of Perth Nakhuns Q&A vids, the 2. vid i think). BL actors usually know what they get into by entering the industry, decide with eo how much they want to do. Now that can still cause internal personal conflicts like one going over board or not playing enough but that's human miscommunication. Or companies can still be bastards but it's unfair to generalise it over the whole industry when we nowadays have companies who give their actors that freedom.

There are still some points to criticise, definitely. Like I personally dislike how MCs and sponsors sometimes treat actors during events or how fans scream at every little move or glance like crazy.... But the topic is a bit more nuanced (as always in this world) than how most people look at it. I just mean it really always sticks out when you talk with people about their reasons why they are anti fanservice that they just repeat after another with no sources or without actual up to date information or only look at it from one side.

I personally am in the middle. I only like fs when the actors have fun with it and are transparent about it. In the end it comes down to actors consent what they want to give to the audience (reason why it annoys me when people write "i feel like i am interrupting something here / am intuding their privacy" the actors consented! they want you to watch if you want to see it! consent babes! it is fine)

(when i see someone coming in with "but Krist is a homophobe" I will bite you. I am not even his fan and already researched what happened back then when I first saw those accusations when I got into BL 2021ish. It is really not that hard to look up the source and reports of people who were live pressent at the time to understand what went down back then. Ya know instead of believing rumors that twist and lie for rage bait)

[poggersbathwater]

vivziepop: this show is about criticising Christianity"

proceeds to: woobify sinners and make them overlords as a reward,for some reason all or most sinners (cannibals, rapists,murderers....etc) are queer,villainized Adam the first human (had nothing to do with Christianity at the time he got created and it's not his fault that god made him for a woman and just wanted peaceful life with her) who lost two women because of lucifer,made lucifer the good innocent guy (let's ignore that he is the main reason why humanity is suffering), "7 DEADLY SINS ARE GOOD FOR YOU ACTUALLY! LUST IS ABOUT CONSENT AND GLUTTONY ARE ABOUT SELF CONTROL,EXCEPT FOR GREED CAUSE THERE'S NO SUCH A THING AS A GOOD GREED CAUSE FUCK RICH!....btw please buy my Valentino cups! (I Wonder why 7 sins are deadly in a first place if they're caring and healthy according to viv)" "Wait.....are you telling me that stolas is a wise high ranking demon who give knowledge to those who summon him? Nonsense! Stolas is a horny softie who needs his imp slave to protect him! Screw accuracy! And you know what? I am making the rest of ars goetia and turn them into birds and had nothing to do with their demonology because I just need to use their names to make more characters"

(Yeah sorry about stolas accuracy part,it's just that I am tired of "not everything should be accurate" argument,that's like making thoth a Egyptian god of wisdom into a weak softie hypocrite character who is obsessed with sex and have nothing to do with his wisdom and knowledge,actually there's a lot of interesting things about thoth that makes him respected amongst gods and if viv wrote him he would be nothing but a joke character that have no personality outside of sex and victimhood mentally)

Alright lightning round here

Woobifying (idk what that means but i imagine it means glorification) sinners: I think the overlords are there to run businesses and industries in Hell, not to reward them exactly- but I do see the point you're making. The worse they are, the more power they have, which doesn't look too good for Hell's case.

Having most of the sinners be queer: Yeah I.. also get this one. It's weird how no fascists or.. well, generally bigoted people are there, but all the characters that ARE there happen to be queer. And I'm not saying queer people can't be bad, they can, but when there's more queer people than bigots in a place that's supposed to have the bad people... yeahhhhh no

Villainizing Adam: Yeah I hate how they turn Adam into a righteous douche- though it could make sense, since he did eat the fruit too (it probably changed his behavior a lot), turning him into a righteous douche who's bitter he lost his wife was.. kinda messed up.

The characterization of the sins: YEAH ACTUALLY THIS ONE SUCKS !! The whole point of Gluttony is that you just keep indulging without a care- the whole point of lust is that it's forced and it hurts people- if it wasn't about force, it'd be called love. Because consent is love. Force and betrayal (cheating/infidelity) is lust. The sins being characterized as good people takes away from why they are sins.

Stolas: Okay I don't know much about demon stuff, so I'll leave that alone (the ars goetia isn't talked about in Christianity so that's why I can't answer it), but I will say that stolas being the victim all the time is fucking ass. Yes, stolas has been forced into an arranged marriage. That sucks, it does. But that doesn't excuse any of his actions towards Blitzo, or his emotional unavailability towards Via.

I've never gotten this many asks Holy shit

[mwesrik]

Okay bit of a different post for the finale than my usual meme rant because I’m just done with everything today

Fandom is my safe space. It has been since I figured out what the internet was. And frankly I’ve been having a really shitty time recently.

And what the OFMD fandom is doing rn is frankly making me really fucking pissed

I understand being upset at character deaths. I understand being upset over budget cuts or lack of character development that you wished for. I understand being upset over the direction a show has taken.

But the way people are literally ABUSING the writers of a show that has been GROUNDBREAKING makes me sick.

YES! The budget cuts messed up the pacing and character development. You can think of Izzy’s death whatever you want. But to drag down a show, that has done so much for the queer community. With writers and actors and crew who have done their absolut best to make us feel seen and heard and to give us a mainstream story which is filled with queer joy. It just sets my teeth on edge.

I liked the finale. I cried over Izzy and wish HBO were less of a cunt firm and had given the show more episodes. I wish Ed and Stede had talked and I wish we had more episodes.

But I was overall happy. Because the main couple had their cheesy, happy moments. They literally said they loved each other for fucks sake. And everyone is fucking focused on Izzy and not even talking about the the main couple anymore. Not because they suck but because they’re not their blorbo they can project their angsty fantasies onto. And I like Izzy, I really fucking loved him but he was a side character. One that was quite obviously doomed to die since season 1. So saying the show is ‚literal dogshit now‘ is just such a wild jump to me.

His death was also obviously rushed because of the lack of time. It’s not the fault of the crew!!! that they had to adjust their script to the funds and time they were given.

I can’t come onto the internet to be happy about my favourite show being queer and dramatic and campy, and sure a bit messy because everything is fucking DRENCHED in toxicity and whinging.

Sorry if this offends anyone, if anyone even sees it but this really pissed me off today. My one thing that cheers me up made me even more depressed today because people have no inhibitions anymore as soon as their favourite media isn’t perfectly aligned with their image of how it should be.

TL,DR: I’m really over the OFMD fandom being toxic over Izzy and other issues while ignoring all the brilliant things this show has given us.

[twig-tea]

Lately I’ve been feeling like Thai bl is truly all over the place with so many shows airing at once and some of the best ones flying under the radar while discourse is focused on a couple of the big messy ones. I think you’re the only person I know who is actually watching ALL of them and has been here for the whole evolution of the genre, so I’m curious what stands out to you about this current moment. Do the shows feel different to you? Is the way fandom is interacting with them changing? And what are your current favs?

I ended up writing a thesis, sorry friend lol To be fair to me there are 3 questions in there, all of them meaty! I've done my best to give a sense of where I'm at with Thai BL and how it feels like it's changed over time.

Caveating all of this: I am just one fan who I'm sure has had specific experiences that will colour my opinion, also a lot of this is just vibes so I'm open to being told I've forgotten something major or misremembered what it was like! If you are reading this and your opinion or experience is different please share, with stuff like this I'm always interested in hearing about differing opinions because the fandom experience will depend at least partly on where you hang out. For years, my main fandom space for BL was the YouTube comments section (RIP me).

Overall feel

Honestly, things overall don't feel all that different to me in Thai BL in particular, even though I'm about to talk about a lot of changes and ways it actuallyd does feel very different below lol And after reflecting about it, I think it's because these things still feel very much in flux, in a way that they've felt in flux this entire time. Producers are still figuring out the best funding and distribution models and merch models to make money; creators are still calibrating how queer these shows can be and still be popular; actors are still figuring out how to do BGP (business gay performances) without having fans interfere in their private lives off the clock. Writers are still trying to figure out how to write 12-episode arcs that don't drag in the middle or fumble the ending (which is also not new). The tension between established ships, fan expectations, and genre requirements has honestly been there almost the whole time, though the reverberations of missteps is louder now because of the larger fanbase that is (comparatively) more plugged in to live viewing. The core question in BL has always been 'how do we make this marketable', and that unsurprisingly hasn't changed, though the answer to that question has over time, if that makes sense?

Shows

Do the shows feel different? As a whole, I'd say yes. The biggest differences are of course total quantity and overall quality, but the actual distribution of % of shows that have high(er) production values (i.e. quality) feels close to the same--it was close to 50/50 in the late 2010s and now is maybe more like 40/60 with a higher percentage coming from more smaller production companies. But the numbers we're talking about are something like 15 shows in e.g. 2018 and something more like 50 shows in 2023 (being vague because there are shows that people could argue over whether they should count). The quality overall has increased, even the pulps look better, sound better, and tend to feel a little bit more put together than the pulps of even 2020 (please note that these are all relative qualifiers, most of these shows are still not objectively good). 2020 in particular was a watershed moment for high production value BLs; we get colorists and special effects artists, and sometimes decent sound production now!

There has also been an improvement in terms of what is depicted and how certain subject matter is treated very generally, though I think that's still in flux. Things like evil ex girlfriends are less common than they were and the women in BL are more likely (in general, still not always) to be treated as realized characters. We've gotten more and better femme representation in ensemble shows, and the "gay for you" trope is much less common. Consent is now considered sexy and is much more common than it was; non-consent as "sexy" has eroded and is much less common. Things that used to happen in almost every BL now happen in a much lower percentage. I also feel a little bit less worried about some of the actors on pulp sets because there is more general scrutiny about things like minor actors, intimacy coordination, BGP (business gay performance) expectations, and sexual exploitation. Overall, show recommendations these days come with fewer caveats.

The assumption that if you worked with someone on a BL once you would stay with them as an established pairing was surprisingly early in BL; I don't know if it's just because there were a few shows that had side pairings then get main shows, so the actors did work together on a few shows in a row, which made them feel established, or whether it's because the BGP started early to build hype both before and after shows aired, or whether audiences just made homophobic assumptions about how if two actors had chemistry they had to be gay for each other, and otherwise nobody would want to "play gay" more than once, or would want to have to kiss too many other men....in any case, there were huge scandals and blow-ups around this in BL on even the earliest shows, and some early shows were snubbed because of the pairing alone. Similarly, it was established very early in BL (i.e. 2016-17) that an unhappy ending for a pair would result in your show being panned; cheating was also a guaranteed flop in BL circles (though some ensemble shows that had gay relationships in them such as Friend Zone did fine with cheating plots and unhappy endings). Overall it feels like some things were only depicted in early Thai BL and creators have avoided them since due to the audience reception at the time. I will say, generally, that there have now been enough examples of people in a "branded pair" moving on to a new pair or multiple shows, that it feels less like a death knell to a BL career if one of the actors says they no longer wanted to make BLs, or if they switched companies.

I pay a lot of attention to queerness in BL, and that has changed a little bit too, though not in the way I expected. I had been expecting a more clear and steady trajectory in BL, but we've instead had real swings, and I've realized there will just always be shows that feel more or less actually gay or queer than others, and that's ok. Early Thai shows really spoiled us for good queer content, GayOK Bangkok and Diary of Tootsies are still shows by which i measure what we get now, and both of those are from 2016. I would say that more "mainstream" BL (i.e. by one of the major production companies) hit what turned out to be queer saturation around 2020 and that's where I was most surprised not see a more clear trajectory; rather than things getting more queer from there, I'd say a greater percentage of shows overall feel more queer, but we haven't (and I now suspect won't) reach the queerness we had in Thai tv in 2016. That being said, my secret running list of things I want to see in BL gets shorter every year as entries get crossed off, so I would say the range of queer experience is slowly getting captured as more content continues to be made by a wider range of production houses (PrEP being mentioned in a mainstream show is my white whale).

I know some people assume that shows are higher heat now overall, but I don't think that's true. I do think Thai television producers and directors have overalll gotten better at capturing sensuality, and acting workshops have improved chemistry-building overall too. But from what I can tell the ratio of high head and low heat content is still pretty similar to what it's always been, maybe slightly higher (e.g. at a quick glance I'd guesstimate 30% of shows had a sex scene in 2018 vs 40% in 2023).

Fandom

The main differences in fandom from the really early days and now are the ways we, as international fans, are able to engage with each other, with thai audiences at the same time, and with content creators, and the entitlement that comes with that. In the 2010s we were almost always watching after Thai airing, with either fansubs or, later, official subs, trailing online releases by days or weeks, which themselves may have trailed the Thailand airing date by days or weeks or sometimes even months. That became less true around 2019ish, and especially in 2020 when I think Thai producers were desperate to reach audiences during the start of the pandemic (and when audiences were desperate for something to distract us from what was happening in real life).

As a fan in the mid-late 2010s, watching something was either unofficial via a fansubber, or you were wading through hundreds of Thai comments to find anyone else writing about the shows in English. Now, it's actually rare we don't have immediate international distribution, though it may be paid. If the subs are not up at the same time as the official upload, even on free sites, fans get furious. It's a bit surreal to see people complain about waiting a few hours for subtitles, especially on YouTube, when we sometimes waited months for a series to finish being subbed (not to say people didn't complain back then too, because they sure did! But there were fewer international fans overall, and it wasn't an expectation that there would be subs, so fewer people complained when it happened). This meant that a lot of people only watched shows when they were complete, and people were not watching with any kind of synchronicity.

With international fans moving into simultaneous watching with Thai audiences, we suddenly had the chance to talk about shows as they were airing and affect the conversations about them and even, sometimes, the decisions. Folks seem to have differing opinions about what makes a BL, and what makes a BL good, and they are vocal about when a show doesn't meet their standard. This has always been true, but the strong opinions have more of an effect on the discourse when they're expressed in real-time to the show being aired. Also, when we have literally 3x the number of Thai shows being aired (nevermind other countries which have also increased), it seems so much more egregious to me to complain if a single show doesn't meet your particular taste. Just go watch something else! That was less possible in 2016, but now nobody has any excuse lol Please note here that I'm not saying shows should not be criticized. But when you have one loud faction saying shows should have nothing but innocent kisses if any skinship at all and showing more is distasteful and possibly homophobic, and another faction saying a show should be panned if they don't have at least one sex scene and if there is no good kiss it's homophobic, I don't know where that leaves content creators but I see the tension and how it sometimes results in my least favourite tropes like "blushing maiden" even after a couple has canonically had sex. These factions have always existed in BL fandom, this is not new, they just both seem particularly silly now with so much content to choose from.

The shows that get attention and the shows that get snubbed feel the same too, in all honesty. You can ask yourself the following questions:

Is the show a little slower paced?

Are the story beats less melodramatic?

Do its characters feel more human?

Do they feel more queer?

Is it a comedy?

Is there any risk of an unhappy ending?

Do people not think one of the lead actors is hot?

Do people ship one of the lead actors with someone who isn't his costar?

Do people have to do anything other than go to YouTube to watch it?

If the answer is yes to any of those questions, and especially to the last one, fewer people will be watching, even if the show is good. That's always been true. [Shows I'm thinking about when I say that: Make it Right, He's Coming to Me, My Ride, You're My Sky, Oxygen (though the sides in this one are also at fault), YYY, Something in my Room, Ghost Host Ghost House, Dear Doctor I'm Coming for Soul, Cooking Crush.] All this is to say, there have always been shows that have been ignored, though I agree with you OP that with more shows airing, more are being ignored at any given time.

The other thing is that when a show is good, it doesn't necessarily invite discourse. The messes are often what encourage people to dig in, fill in gaps, linger in the adrenaline. The part that does feel different is also related to the increase in genre BLs; genre stuff in general tends to get more attention in fandom spaces, and the way people are functioning as fans feels different in that they're bringing the way they interact with genre content to BL as BL has started having larger and better funded genre content. I'm thinking about those early genre BLs like He She It, My Dream, Love Poison, Golden Blood, So Much In Love, Why R U....we started getting genre shows in BL in I think 2017 and basically had 1-2 a year until 2020ish and then it increased from there; and the ones that had funding and decent distribution got engagement until they started going off the rails, and then they had even more engagement and then fell off. I don't think it's a coincidence that the shows last year that got people to write meta were La Pluie, Be My Favorite, and I Feel You Linger in the Air. When a show is building a world, there's more to say and interrogate about it, and when a genre show fails, it can fail more spectacularly than a regular romance story. The most popular BL shows used to all be straight-up BL bubble romances, but I think genre shows really started to take over a greater percentage of the popular spots in 2022 and 2023. Again, the main difference here is that there used to be 1-2 stand-out shows per year, and now there are closer to 6+ per year, and as we got more stand-out shows the variety of what type of show stood out as popular has expanded. I do think the overall percentage of shows that are more standard romance plots has reduced, partly because Thai production companies are running out of popular y-novels to adapt. So I'm anticipating we'll continue to get more genre content going forward, and maybe a higher percentage of original works too.

Shows I'm Enjoying Right Now

Right now, the Thai shows airing that I'm watching are:

Cooking Crush

Dead Friend Forever

Cherry Magic Thailand

City of Stars

The Sign

Playboyy

PitBabe

7 Days before Valentine

For Him

Of those, I'd currently most recommend Cooking Crush as a generic BL recommendation. Dead Friend Forever is very good, but is not a romance and is difficult for some to watch (there are a lot of dark themes in addition to the gore and scary bits).

Cooking Crush is doing so many things I love. I've written about the way it's set up its major conflict to be amongst the friend group here, and way the show is depicting communication between the two main characters and how they improve their communication with one another as they get closer here. Two of my biggest BL pet peeves are a conflict for the sake of a dramatic penultimate episode that ignores or retcons a character's growth or the building of trust that a couple has already gone through in the series, so the fact that this show is working so hard to establish strong communication between its leads and then setting up the significant drama to actually about friendship rather than romance is something I cannot overstate my excitement about. To tie this back into what I wrote above, this reminds me of Diary of Tootsies and I mean that in the best possible way.

Dead Friend Foreever is, like I mentioned above, not a romance; it's a slasher horror melodrama with a very well established mystery, an ensemble cast of mostly hateable characters (which I admit isn't usually my thing, but since they're likely all going to die as a result of the genre they're in I'm finding that more tolerable than usual, and there is at least one character I like). DFF did a great job of structuring the story for the ultimate payoff of information reveals. There are a lot of shows that have been messing with non-linear storytelling recently, Cooking Crush being one of the ones that actually does this poorly in my opinion, but Dead Friend Forever effectively uses non-linear storytelling so that we find out important pieces of information about particular characters at a time when that information will have the most emotional impact on what is happening in the "present" of the storyline. Every time there is a reveal, it informs what we've already seen, recontextualizes it, and means we understand some of the character motivations and actions differently from when we saw them the first time. I mentioned above that there are dark themes in this show; one of the things that I really like about this show is that the impact of class is not glossed over, and that the consequences of these events feel very real for the characters; people do terrible things in this show, but these actions are not treated lightly by the show itself.

You'd think these two shows would have nothing in common, but there are things that they share that put them both in my top category. Generally, in both of these shows, the character arcs are clear and logical; when a character does something, even if I don't like the action itself, I can understand exactly why they that and can see how it matches where they are in their arc at the time. The shows show change in characters as a result of what they experience, and the relationships in this show really matter. When characters start acting in ways that feel out of character or against their own arc because they have to in order to drive the plot forward, I struggle to remain invested; that's not happening with either of these shows. Both of these shows also treat serious topics with seriousness, and consequences for actions are real and felt by the characters in the show (and if someone gets away with something, the show is clear that this is not just). Nothing has happened that hasn't been signalled or implied earlier. Both shows also have clear class consciousness and represent the disparity caused by classism in a critical/harsh light.

Whew! I think I got to everything you asked. Thanks again for the extremely interesting question!

[greisekinderschar]

Alright, guys, it’s been more than six months but it is time for a Radskier meta essay on why their storyline isn’t as badly written as many people say. (Includes spoilers)

Is it rushed? Yes. It’s a side-story of a side character and actually Jaskier’s first side-story on the show. Is it cliché? Yes. When I first watched the season I was terrified about where their story would be going, knowing what happened in the book and knowing how mainstream media treats queer storylines. (I did not know about Joey’s deep involvement in the writing until later.) But once I knew how it all ended, I was entirely sold. Of course, that’s a question of taste, Radovid just turned out to incorporate so many tropes I am obsessed with, but I am trying to say that compared to the overall writing of the show, their story is not particularly badly written, which blew me away considering it’s a queer storyline in a mainstream medieval fantasy show.

Yes, they gave Jaskier a queer story for the sake of having a queer story. That was another reason I was very anxious about it. But what they (read: Joey, and let’s be honest, Hugh too) made of it is so exciting to me.

Here’s the thing about them ageing up Radovid and making him Vizimir’s brother. I have seen people complaining that they could’ve introduced an OC instead of changing source material like that. But to me, the fact they chose Radovid makes it so much more than a queer storyline for the sake of having a queer storyline. He’s the prince and later the king of Redania. He is entangled in the greater scheme of things. He is /on/ the same chessboard as the main characters. Turning him into Vizimir’s brother rather than son is way less forced than introducing an OC to be Jaskier’s love interest. Because he is more than Jaskier’s love interest. He is the King of Redania, played by Dijkstra and Philippa. Also, he cannot be killed off.

As I already said because it’s obvious, their story is rushed. That’s just the fate of side stories in TV shows (that are not masterfully written, lbr). But to me at least it is amazing how much they managed to convey in these few scenes.

You have Jaskier’s role as a spy for the Redanian Intelligence. That begins his own side story where he has a role of his own, that has nothing to do with Geralt. He meets this guy who actually appreciates his music and openly flirts with him, showing that he is desirable, something new to the character of the comic relief (although he is the romancer but you know, we never saw it on screen, also this time he is being romanced). He is suspicious, because he knows the Intelligence is not to be trusted, and the Prince of Redania is kind of the enemy. But he is also Jaskier, and his interest is caught. Besides this interest, Radovid’s suggestion to bring Ciri to supposed safety is right up Jaskier’s alley, because he is one to rather avoid battles if possible. He ponders on whether it is a possibility.

Later, he uses this vague connection to Radovid to have some agency of his own. He negotiates with him about Rience without discussing it with Geralt. He’s following his own plan, checking out the possibilities. He’s like alright, this guy at least pretends to be into me, let’s see if I can put that to good use to help Geralt. He sweeps Radovid off his feet with his ballad, and then Radovid says things that blow Jaskier away. He speaks of his talents, of determination to get to know more about him, of how Geralt should be grateful for his loyalty and friendship. Jaskier, the comic relief, has never heard this before. He’s Weak and he’s Wanting™️. But he still knows that he is Jaskier, easily fooled by romance, and that there are great things at stake. At the same time, Geralt is also treating him with more respect to make the decisions harder on him. But Radovid stays on his mind, he doesn’t know what to make of it and discusses it with Vespula, and she knows. She sees what’s going on.

Then, Radovid shows up while he is looking after Ciri. He is still suspicious. But Radovid is different from the last time he saw him. He is scared and he is vulnerable, and Jaskier can see that the mask is gone, and that what lies beneath it is not a villain. He is still cautious, until Radovid sings him his own song and he cannot take it any longer. He is giving in, and he struggles still as he does, but he is Jaskier. He’s Weak and he’s Wanting™️.

The next morning, he is not surprised. Of course, stupid Jaskier got himself fooled by some pretty eyes once again. Of course such blatant desire and affection for him could have only been a lie. He never knew romance like this and he does not hesitate to believe it was simply not real.

But then, he finds Radovid surrounded by his dead guards, alone. The people he was supposedly scheming with left him behind, so he was not all that involved, maybe he really was their puppet. He’s scared and he’s full of regret, he’s a helpless prince in the middle of the outbreak of a war, but he’s telling Jaskier to not waste more time on him because he knows he fucked up beyond redemption. But he’s Jaskier. He has endless capacity for forgiveness. And now that their plans had failed and Radovid has no more reason to lure him in, he’s still begging for a second chance. He still wants to be with him. He wants to prove himself to him, even if that means leaving the court behind. Jaskier has other priorities right now and he’s still hurt, but if there is a chance that this affection he never knew before was real, he is taking it.

And Radovid? He’s the spoiled prince brat, underestimated by everyone (just like Jaskier), and he’s riding that wave, because he does not really care about state affairs. He likes Jaskier’s music, and when he sees him he thinks he’s hella fine. He has his fun and at the same time tries to show Philippa he’s capable of more than she thinks, but he was not expecting that Jaskier would blow him away like that. That he would challenge him (the Prince), that he would be honest with him, that he would see through his act and by doing that NOT underestimate him. Radovid is Vibing and he decides to enter Dijkstra’s and Philippa’s game until he realizes he Fucked Up with his arrogance and being a prince is actually worth shit. He knew everything going on in the castle is pretense, but he was not prepared for this level of violence. He is terrified when he meets Jaskier, and Jaskier is good to him. And, again, honest. Unlike anything he had known up to now, the courtly schemes that had only recently culminated to him being scared for his life. He is still a spoiled brat prince and wants to be with Jaskier very badly, so he Fucks Up again. It is that last mistake that makes him understand his faults. But when he sees that Jaskier still does not hate him, he is determined to fix it, and he will do anything. Fuck being a prince, I will leave everything I know behind to show this man that my feelings were true.

Jaskier changes this man’s entire life and Radovid is willing to do everything for him. Yes, the idea to just go off and find him WHEREVER was kind of idiotic, but that’s the beauty of these two. They are both smart and idiotic at the same time, and they let their actions be led mainly by emotions, which sometimes adds up to the idiocy of it all. But Jaskier has more experience, and Radovid learns from him how to be less selfish, he grows as a person through knowing him.

So yes, the love-betrayal-redemption story is hollywood cliché, but it fits the characters and leads to interesting character growth. And honestly, as a queer woman I enjoy seeing some queers having a cliché storyline in a mainstream media piece. Geralt and Yennefer had a similar story. It raises the queer love story to the level of the hetero story. They struggle and they suffer just as much as anyone else, and they have something that connects them, a story that has potential to be continued in an interesting way. They don’t just exist as the obligatory queers, and their storyline isn’t inherently queer either, to a point where it feels like they’re only queer so Jaskier’s love interest can be the gods forsaken King. (At the same time, the story has queer coded themes, like having to pretend to be someone else, but the way it is portrayed, it can be relatable to non-queers as well.) The cliché of it all does not feel more cliché than other storylines on the show (to me). Its not queered cliché, it’s just a story, and I love that.

Also, Joey and Hugh have actual chemistry. And - and no one really argues with that - immense talent that filled these few scenes with so many layers in the first place. We owe it to Hugh that Radovid is not just a romantic interest, but a layered, flawed character (although Hugh attributes it to the writing but he’s too modest).

The last thing I want to say is that I feel we are generally overly critical of queer storylines, which is not a bad thing per se, because we know how many harmful storylines there are, but I struggle to see how this one is harmful in any way. You have to relate them to the straight romances. The straights will just randomly smile at each other and then they will date, but no one complains about it being rushed.

I am obviously not saying everyone has to ship them, I genuinely do not care. I just think it’s unfair to drag their storyline when it is nothing but normal that they didn’t have enough time for an elaborate story, but they (meaning Joey and Hugh) put a lot of work into making it a good one regardless, an effort no one would have put into a straight love story, because they would not have had to.

[absolutebl]

Top 10 Cozy BLs!

Our Dating Sim made me realize we have a new sub genre of BLs happening right now: the cozy BL. 

I decided to invent/identify/name this new BL category because... I can. I crowd sourced (here in the hellhole) opinions of how to define it and what should go on it. The collective brainstormed and elected the following qualifications: 

low angst 

low stakes 

high domesticity 

a central relationship that is more cute than anything else

extra points for found family

AKA BLs that make you feel happy and comfortable. 

These BLs leave you feeling warm and safe, like a hot water bottle. I will list them in order of my personal preference when in the mood for “cozy.”

1. Our Dating Sim 

(Korea, Viki) 

Did I create this list for this show? Yes I did. It defines this category. It is a very low stakes, high domesticity, extremely warm and gentle second chance at love office romance. 

This is a fuzzy blanket of a story that perfectly suited KBL’s short-length tendencies. The pacing is... muuuuuah... chef’s kiss. 

2. Seven Days 

(Japan, grey in 2 parts Seven Days: Monday - Thursday | Seven Days - Friday - Sunday) 

 Popular first year Seiryo has a policy of going out with any girl who asks… for one week. On a lark, third year Yuzuru tests to see if that policy also applies to boys. Seiryo agrees that it does. Along the way they accidentally fall in love. Possibly my favorite BL of all time. It’s very gentle with us and its characters while still having that Japanese emo edge to it. 

A master class in quite yet riveting cinema. 

What, you doubted me? OF COURSE it’s on the list

3. My School President

(Thailand, YouTube)

GMMTV gave us a classic high school set Thai BL with tropes like messy boys singing their feelings that made this one Love Sick for the modern age with all the gentle sweetness and pining ache, but none of the dated damaging tropes or issues. Yes, we’ve seen it all before, but I still ADORED this, and that’s partly what makes it so comforting. Who let my BL be this wholesome and funny? 

4. See You After Quarantine?

(Taiwan, Viki) 

Be you never expected lockdown to be comforting? This under appreciated gem is Taiwan’s answer to Gameboys and is just as charming and adorable yet still as quintessentially Taiwanese as one might hope. It features a Japanese love interest and the cutest most confused disaster gay. Slow burn because the two have almost no actual screen time together and yet manage some truly amazing chemistry plus sweetly caring and earnest. Honestly how does Taiwan do it?

5. Ingredients 

(Thailand, YouTube) 

At the time (during lockdown) many of us referred to this as our “emotional support grocery store advertisement.” If all you want is two soft boys being domestic, cooking together, cuddling on the couch, cat sitting, and babysitting - just put this on and be comfy.

6. What Did You Eat Yesterday?

(Japan, grey) 

Basically the grown up version of Ingredients. Emotionally repressed, grumpy, salary man shows his hair dresser husband his love by cooking amazing meals. That’s it, that’s the whole show. There some queer fam drama, and blood-fam coming out drama, but mostly is husbands cooking and eating together and it’s great. Is it BL? Not really. Do we care? Not really. 

7. The New Employee

(Korea, Viki) 

This one is queer comfort, explicitly. If you aren’t queer you might not find it as warm and engaging. A near pitch perfect office BL with conflict derived from that setting. Also featuring found family and a lesbian bestie. Sweet & innocent (and out) Seung Hyun scores the office internship of his dreams. On his first day at work he gets into it with his cool reserved (and also v gay) boss. 

As you do. 

But things get romantic pretty darn quickly. 

As you gay. 

8. En of Love: Tossera & Future the series

(Thailand, YouTube) 

Tossera = Younger boy wants to court older boy and does and… that’s it. No really that’s the WHOLE STORY. There is actually no angst, drama, or, indeed plot. But are they the softest bois ever to BL as a main couple? Yes, yes they are.

Future is... exactly the same thing. 

Are we mad about it? 

Nope. 

9. Oxygen 

(Thailand, YouTube) 

Softest seme in the universe sings his affection to the older boy at the cafe. Let the slow burn courting commence. Oxygen uses every BL trope in the playbook for one of the gentlest lowest angst BLs ever made. It’s a hyung romance (younger boy courts older boy) but very very earnest about it. Am I biased? Sure. This is probably one of my biggest comfort watches. 

10. Our Dining Table 

(Japan, Gaga)

Lonely salaryman and talented cook gets accidentally adopted by a college kid and his little brother. It’s a quiet cozy little parable of found family alleviating loneliness. Possibly too slow for some but definitely high up there for me with the best of what Japan can do (like Restart After Come Back Home), it’s only flaw (if I dare say such a thing) is that it is not really “romantic.” Lovely & sweet but the romance beats are being used to build a family relationship, not just couple intimacy, it’s OK with me, but not totally BL.

For me one of the hallmarks of cozy BL is that as a chronic rewatcher I find myself starting to rewatch these ones even as they are still airing. Oxygen was an icon of this (also my first watch-along and the reason I realized I really had a passion for BL)

Shorts

Summerdaze - Singapore & Korea, YouTube

The 8.2 Second Rule - Japan, YouTube 

A First Love Story - Korea, YouTube 

Some More - Korea, Gaga 

Quite a few other Strongberry offerings.

More like this?

Top 10 Most Romantic BLs for Valentine’s Day

Top 20 Softest Couples in BL

Top 10 Cutest BLs

Fluffy Sweet Soft Thai BL

10 BLs Best Enjoyed with Hot Tea & a Roaring Fire

MOAR RECS?

From the blog comments. If I agree I gave it a description. 

Boys Lockdown (YouTube) - actually on this list because it go so many votes by everyone else, I haven’t watched it. 

My Ride (GaGa) - Thai BL grew up with this pulp - a truly lovely and special little show featuring the extremely rare pairing of sunshine/sunshine AKA a cinnamon roll couple. Mature explorations of relationships using one of the softest, sweetest and most innocent friends to lovers vehicles. Kindly, overworked doctor meets broken-hearted motorcycle taxi driver in an “other side of the tracks” slow burn romance. The support cast is excellent, making for great friendship groups and family dynamics. With honest queer rep that adds to, but doesn’t impede the story, and genuine conversation about the nature of class, wealth, and classism, not to mention communication, honesty, and respect for boundaries, you can’t go wrong with this show. In other news, I am a sucker for a single dimple. Full review.

Takara-kun to Amagi-kun (Viki & Gaga) - yes, high school angst but so sweet about it. Review here.

2 Moons 3 Ambassador (grey) - I love this odd little pulp, it’s oddly satisfying for all it’s awkward cheese-fest. Maybe that is why I like it. Review here.

21 Days Theory (YouTube) 

About Youth (Gaga) - A truly lovely little coming of age high school BL with a classic YA low drama but high angst and an earnest depth. Full review here.

Ai no Kotodama (Gaga) 

Be Loved In House: I Do (Viki) 

Cherry Blossoms After Winter (Viki warning dub con) - it’s here because a lot of people (like me) love it, but there are objections. Review here.

Cherry Magic (Japan, indie subbed) AKA Doutei dato Mahoutsukai ni narerurashii - the sweetest, fluffiest, most charming bit of adorable ever, full of found family and pastry and serious slapstick, the characters are utter spazzes, but so cute about it. Still that aspect makes me a little tense so I don’t find it as cozy as others do.  

Craving You (Viki) 

Destiny Seeker (grey) - see 2 Moons Ambassador 

DNA Says Love You (Gaga) - particularly the last few episodes. 

La Cuisine (GaGa) - sweet and kind of pure show, and like Thai desserts perhaps requires too much patience for a layperson. Because of the pacing and the focus on the bad girl character, I did dock it. But if you like stuff in the Oxygen vein, then this show is for you, and far better than most Thai BL pulps. That said, I suspect that I enjoyed it more than many would. Full review. 

Meet Me Outside (Gaga) 

Meow Ears Up (Gaga) 

Mr. Heart (Viki) 

Mr. Unlucky has no Choice but to Kiss (Viki) 

Nitiman (Thailand YouTube) - This Thai BL pulp had sympathetic characters, a solid tsundere uke redemption arc, and a fantastic pining seme who yearned without bullying, grooming, or gaslighting. Plus when they were together, they were ridiculously soft. But it also had a realistic portrayal of university life, bisexual awakening, and friendship groups. Ending is okay but a victim of lockdown.

Old Fashion Cupcake (Viki) 

Ocean Likes Me (Viki) 

Roommates of 304 (Viki) 

Wish You (Korea - Netflix or Viki, you want the movie version) AKA Wish You: Your Melody in My Heart - low stakes high pining romance about a pianist who falls in love with a busker who is on his way to being the next big idol.

There was quite a lively discussion coming up with this list, since everyone defines cozy differently but I am not alone in my top 10 choices, these mostly got the most votes. 

(source)

[alexwilltellyouthings]

Entirely self indulgent rating post about the top 10 TV shows that made me fucking insane for some reason

10. Sense8

God, this was so good. Such a blessing. I saw part of the cast during a Pride Parade and it's one of my favorite memories. I felt every possible emotion with this show, I love it.

9. The Last of Us

This is kind of a cheat, because the obsession comes from the games, but it is what it is. It's one of the few games that had a big impact on me and I closely relate it to my relationship with my dad. Can't wait to cry my heart out at season 2.

8. Good Omens

It's a given, isn't it? That stupid angel with his stupid demon and their stupid God. GRRRAAWW. A lot of thoughts and feelings came from the fandom, I have to point out. It's been very nice.

7. The Umbrella Academy

I have the first issue of the comics autographed by Gerard Way!! I mean, yes, it's because I'm a MCR fan, but it became even more precious after I got into the show. I'm rewatching right now, preparing for the last season. I'll be a mess when I say goodbye to them. Can't even really think about it too hard or I'll cry right now.

Continues under the cut

6. Our Flag Means Death

LISTEN THIS CHANGED EVERYTHING TO ME. What do you mean we can have a show THIS queer? It's all I want now. I ate it up. I smiled so much. I wanted this so badly and had no idea.

5. Interview with the Vampire

Feels like it should be top 3 honestly but I'll get there. This is also a cheat, I've been reading the Vampire Chronicles since I was like 15. Growing up with Anne Rice probably messed me up but hey at least I have great taste. And seeing them on screen? The way they made it BETTER? And Lestat?? Who has been haunting me for 15 years on and off??? And the second season and their reunion and and and?????????? I'm STILL insane about them and will be forever, I'm afraid.

4. Doctor Who

Listen. Listen. Okay. Yeah. What can I say? If you get into it, you're doomed. And I have been doomed for 10 years at least. I stopped watching for a while and got back last year, and it hit me all over again. I love this dumbass genius alien in a way that's calm, even. Just a permanent part of who I am now.

3. The Untamed

The year was 2022, it had been a while since I had a proper fixation and I didn't think it would happen with this danmei live-action, but then came Wei Wuxian. Guys, if I tell you I fell in love. Couldn't stop thinking about him. Everyday I was plagued by his smile and red ribbon and tragic backstory, yadayadayada. I really like other characters too, and their stories, but WWX did something to me that I still don't quite understand.

2. Queer as Folk (US)

This was a looong time ago and it didn't really persist over time like the others, but it was my first actual obsession. I was clinically insane over these gays. I had no one to talk to about them, so for every episode I wrote several pages of notes to comment to my (only) friend at school the next day, the poor thing. It was pretty much all I talked about because I spent EVERY MINUTE we had to talk going over the notes and explaining the episode. Like, between classes, during breaks, everything. Months of that. She held on firmly because she was a good friend, but I'm aware it must've been terrible. Like I said, insane.

1. Dead Boy Detectives

Maybe I'm putting this up here because it's my current hyperfixation? Maybe. But I don't think I have felt something hit as strongly as this since QaF over there. This time I can participate in fandom so I don't need to write every thought I have because it's all a big talk anyway, but I'm still pretty much having those thoughts all the time for *checks notes* nearly three months. I'm writing more than I have in years. I'm back at Tumblr after I don't know how long. I'm staring at GIFs over and over like I have the fucking time for that. I'm distracted at work daily. I talk about it in therapy. I have the main cast's notifications on. I'm getting involved in fandom discourse sometimes even knowing I shouldn't. It's a nightmare. I love it. I love them.

If you read all of this, congrats! Now you know how my mind works, kinda!! I'm open to talk about any and all of these shows. It's amazing how they mess us up. It's also scary, but anyway.

[yourstrulyray]

hi do you want to talk abt isaac.

basically i'm writing a cbs ghosts fic with a focus on some original characters but with a lot of nisaac and plenty of the entire cast in general

it'll have a lot of isaac's pov as well, with his thoughts about two people who can be openly queer in the modern era

but. since ive only watched like,, probably less than half of the show. i thought talking to someone else abt it could help me characterise everyone?? i also just want to talk abt it bc it's kind of a fixation right now haha

no pressure though!! hope you have a nice day

AAAAA yes please i would love to talk about my son hehdhd

let me list out some timelines pre-death first :3

isaac's marriage to beatrice: before or during 1773 the american revolutionary war: 1775-1783 nigel's death: 1776 isaac's death: 1777

so since the start of season 1, despite isaac's efforts we could all still see the fact he does not find women attractive (he literally called his wife, beatrice a handsome woman) so we're thinking bad comphet for our guy here.

(this only applies pre-nisaac) there are five male ghosts of the main cast, so when they all collectively agree that one girl is attractive (maybe not pete), isaac naturally plays along with it, but. plays along badly. everyone could tell that he did not find that girl attractive

as during nisaac, he is still obviously hesitant to be open because he had never been in a relationship with another man. a homosexual relationship. but not only is he hesitant, he is scared.

why is he scared? take a guess of what punishment you'd get for being gay in the 1770s (especially 1776).

the death penalty.

and we all know our guy isaac likes to talk about himself, he was so heavily disappointed to see that all he was in history was a footnote, and how he was jealous that his rival, hamilton, got a whole MUSICAL made about him (isaac loves musical theatre so thats twice the angy) so it's reasonable for him to be scared of death.

but hes already dead, why still be scared?

i actually dont know why but it's probably muscle memory for isaac to pretend. maybe he only found out that queerness was legalized/modernized through sam, not even through the recently dead ones. gotta hand it to him though i cant keep up a facade for more than a century XD

anyway, him being hesitant isn't the only problem, it's also the way he handles his relationship with nigel. his only other serious relationship was with a woman he wasn't even romantically interested in, so he has no healthy base to rely his current relationship with. also, his god-forsaken terrible communication skills, bros been pretending so much that even his personal feelings should be hidden 😭🙏 who hurt u man?

honestly his poo communication skills can still be linked back to his marriage with beatrice. maybe he had no problem with her, therefore no feelings were required to be shared, and he didn't have the need to communicate. but with nigel is a whole different situation.

oh yeah speaking of nigel, like isaac he doesn't have a healthy basis for a relationship. in this case, he previously was in a homosexual relationship, but it was only a sexual (?) one (with jenkins, but idk about the sexual part so jenkins fans back me up 🙏🙏).

we do see in the series that isaac is taking baby steps in the relationship, as opposed to nigel who rushes the starting-to-adjust stage, because this isn't his first gay relationship (whos gonna tell him) which then results to isaac having certain feelings about it, which then results to isaac not communicating as to pretend he can manage their relationship.

one thing about isaac's "certain feelings", it's usually about little things not even serious stuff. he had gone on many respites (temporary break up) with nigel because of their political beliefs (TGE WAR FUCKING ENDED GET OVER IT), hobbies, and personal likes. instead of adjusting to each other, they still choose to follow what they want instead of each other's wishes.

so, TLDR; nigel and isaac, despite having been in previous relationships, are doodoo at expressing themselves and adjusting to one another. (boo)

if you'd like the characterization of the other ghosts/sam and jay, my askbox is open at all times!! :3

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

It's so annoying to see people in the tag comparing Byler to other queer ships that didn't happen like no Byler is unique and wasn't made by bad writers. Idk if you were in one of those fandoms but it would be amazing if you could explain to all those people why Byler was written differently because I am tired of the classic: "they are queerbaiting you,deal with it". I am like :" wow they queerbaited the Lgbt+ community and the heterosexuals too then because a huge majority of the GA audiences who see Byler aren't from the Lgbt+ community". They also made the "main" ship do unlikeable that it lost at least 40% of their supporters between season 3 and season 4.

Well, I can see where they're coming from, even if I don't agree.

I have never been involved in a fandom before, but I have been a fan of shows/movies where I thought "so and so would make a good couple" only for nothing to come of it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, though. This is the first time I've ever thought it was going to happen, and I've felt that way since season 2. Each season since has left me disappointed, as I don't want it to be a final episode "twist" in order to avoid losing fans, but it's still only become more and more obvious to me that it's inevitable.

I think a lot of fans get caught up in headcanons, particularly between seasons. As a result, they end up forgetting what is actually canon, and they create elaborate predictions that just don't fit the reality.

Yes, queerbaiting is a thing. I'm not familiar with many of the fandoms that this is used with, but I'll give the fans the benefit of the doubt on it. If a show hints at a queer couple, that's not enough for it to be queerbaiting. But if they continually build it up, only for it to go nowhere, then it might be. If they actively use it as a means to market the show, then it definitely is.

Without knowing more about specific fandoms, it's hard for me to make any direct comparisons. I suppose, should, somehow, Byler not be endgame, then I'll probably understand a lot better. However, I will also be extremely confused and will have lost considerable respect for the Duffers as writers.

However, Byler is a unique animals, as far as I can tell. It's something that has had seeds planted to it from the very beginning of the show. It's not some response to fans that the producers felt they could then exploit for marketing/merchandising purposes. It may not have been obvious back in season 1, but the clues were there. There was no retconning done to make Byler fit. There was no sly stoking of the flames in the fandom to get fans excited about it. That all happened organically as more and more people caught on.

I don't think the Duffers are dumb. They built a slowburn same-sex romance between main characters over the course of an entire top-tier series. As much as it annoyed me that it's taken this long, it does make the most sense, both in-universe and as a matter of mass appeal. Both the fans and the characters themselves had to come to terms with teen boys falling in love in the 80s. That's not something to be rushed if it's to be taken seriously.

Will, the one we've been told was gay, has come to terms with his feelings, only to come to the conclusion that it's not meant to be.

Mike, the one we've seen to have more-than-friendly feelings for Will, is still not ready, yet.

Season 5 will be the catalyst for Mike to realize what his deep feelings for Will really mean, so he can show Will that love is something for him to experience.

[mariesstudying]

My thoughts on Benedict's possible queer storyline, Francesca's expected queer storyline and Eloise's hoped for queer storyline. Sorry, it's going to be a long one.

With Benedict, it's now been confirmed that he is bisexual in Season 3 Part 2. This doesn't actually confirm the gender of his love interest. The only hint we really got about his storyline next season is the mention of a masquerade ball, which is how he meets Sophie in the books. It's entirely possible that he could end up with a man as we know he is bisexual but it's still possible for him to end up with a woman, so I don't really want to speculate before any casting announcements are made for his season (which I think will be season 4). It's entirely possible the writers will think it's "too much" (which is a bullshit reason but I digress) to have more than one main character end up in a queer relationship and decide to just leave it at Francesca, but like I said, who knows.

For Francesca, I think part of the issue I think people have with Micheala is the fact that for years, but especially this season, people have been speculating that Eloise is queer, not Francesca, so I think it's disappointment from that. I've also seen people say that they are worried about Francesca's infertility storyline, but as I've mentioned in a previous post, Francesca later on being in a sapphic relationship after a heterosexual one doesn't take away from the infertility storyline, queer women can struggle with infertility too. I understand some may be disappointed due to seeing themselves in Micheal, but overall, I don't think the main plot points of Francesca's story will change simply because a woman is involved. People say it’s because part of her whole thing is that she wanted a baby, so why can’t she be torn between her feelings for Micheala and her desire to marry a man for a baby? I think people are forgetting that we're going to get 1-2 seasons with John before we reach Micheala so it's not like we're not going to get any storyline involving infertility issues in a heterosexual couple. Her season is happening for a long while so we've got time to just chill out.

Eloise is the character everyone's been saying is queer for years at this point and with season 3, everyone's expecting it to be Cressida. Just because there isn't anyone queer set up with Eloise in season 3, doesn't mean it may never happen. Yes, it's entirely possible that she could still end up with Phillip Crane, but she could still end up with Cressida. Cressida's moved to the countryside and will likely marry and have children with a man of the landed gentry and have children with him. Maybe he passes away young from a sudden illness, and she's now a widow, like Philip in Eloise's book. They strike up a correspondence because Eloise was Cressida's first real friend, maybe only friend, and she wants to reconcile and rekindle their friendship. Eventually, like in Eloise's book, Eloise runs off to Cressida's estate. Just because we don't know now, doesn't mean it may never happen in the future. I fully believe that Eloise is season 5 so there's time to set it up.

Overall, I don't think it's worth speculating too much as to whether Benedict and Eloise will have queer storyline's in their season's, though I do love good theories, because it's still totally up in the air which way things will go. For Francesca, I think we should all just chill out because her season is for ages and I bet that by the time we hit it, we'll all have seen a great storyline between her and John plus some good set up with her and Micheala and be totally chill with it when the time comes.

[olderthannetfic]

I think a lot of the lack of femslash criticisms also miss the fact that fandom emerges from canon and will reflect, for better or worse, what is already in that canon. So if we have a majority male cast, with the main character being male and the rival being male and the mentor-figure being male and the villains being largely male... I mean, just in terms of numbers and which relationships have the most emotional energy, fandom largely will have majority m/m. And genre fiction, which fandom tends to gravitate towards, is heavily biased towards male characters.

(And even when male side characters get a lot of shipping... usually they're fitting other common popular fandom tropes or they're essentially more fanon than an actual thing people ship-ship. You probably aren't going to be shipping the Female Love Interest™ with another side female character except in a Pair The Spares or background ship sort of way, but Those Two Guys are probably gonna get shipped and typically they're going to be dudes. And even those kinds of het or slash ships can come across as deceivingly popular when they actually aren't, because they're more like popular fanon so they pop up a lot in fics but only in the background rather than the main focus, and those are same ships I often see being brought up as "if you can ship two background men then why aren't you shipping this femslash ship!" wank alongside anomalies like Klux)

Even the Among Us fandom which has the gender-ambiguous characters often interpreted as male. Yes, from what I can tell m/m is way more popular but in terms of genre and setting which will influence how people write for it, it's mostly male characters. It's essentially The Thing In Space and The Thing had a male cast while Alien is notable for being an exception by having a female protagonist in that kind of space setting, and even then, it was still majority male characters in terms of raw numbers, all of which will influence fanfic writers and artists. Plus from what I've read there's often some kind of gender fuckery going on with the Imposter so m/m might even been entirely accurate for a lot of those fics. So while there are perhaps valid criticisms about the lack of female characters in those genres in general that fandom then reflects, it's unreasonable to suggest it's just fandom hating women. Plus everything we've already covered around how it's also related to what a majority queer women (and trans-people-who-were-AFAB) with potentially complicated feelings about female bodies find hot and fun.

But go to the magical girl genre and it's majority femslash, just like how even on ao3 any buddy-cop show with a male and female lead will primarily be het. And when there is a female relationship given the most focus, or when it's canon, the fandom will obviously be majority femslash even on ao3. And I get that it's frustrating when the genres you enjoy have a dearth of women in them or shittily written women, and I agree that we should do better with that, but it's not fandom's responsibility to do so (and it's not like there isn't an entire subgenre of fix-it fics that aren't "what if this female character was written well"). It feels kinda mean to say it, but if you want femslash right now you might want to look in different genres where the protagonist and the most significant characters related to them are all women, and one without a canon male love interest (or a really boring, blank slate one no one cares about).

--

I don't watch Xena for the dudes, definitely. Haha.

Re the Among Us thing, someone said a lot of the fic was clearly inspired by streamers anyway, so that's where the genders are coming from.

[bestshipsmackdown]

I think, for the record, it takes a lot less effort to say “JKR is a pos and has caused unequivocal and irrevocable harm to a minority/marginalized community by using her money and voice to advocate against trans people, and I do not support her,” than it does to go on a rant about how no one is entitled to your “political opinions” on your poll blog. Because trans people should not be treated as a political novelty instead of real human beings. And even if your blog has “nothing to do with politics”, queer people are surprisingly not just whittled down to a political stance you can take, and I have no problem publicly stating that this blog is safe for the lgbt community and is not founded on bigotry.

Yes, I agree that, curating your internet experience is important, and that fandom is not necessarily made up of people likeminded to their creators. HOWEVER with HP, it is much more likely that you are transphobic when you publicly tolerate it. Seeing as that is the main trend when we observe blogs still circulating HP content.

I really never had intent to even allow JKR/HP to even appear on this blog because I wanted to be as far removed from it as humanly possible. Hence why I have, in the past, just deleted HP submissions without even ever stating they weren’t going to be apart of this poll.

All this to say, I followed a blog that allowed HP characters be apart of it’s poll (explicitly stated in the submission process), which was already a red flag. And then, to truly no one’s surprise, when they were (actually very politely, considering this is the internet) asked for their stance on JKR to make sure that it was a blog they were okay with following, they had a very long winded answer, without ever actually condemning JKR [links to give an example of my first thought of how their answer sounded] besides a throwaway line about “sins of the creator.” Which, if you publicly post HP, yeah you’re gonna be scrutinized on if you’re transphobic or not. That’s the risk you assume at the current time. Just kinda what happens when you support loudly transphobic people with no reassurance that you actually can separate the art from the artist.

Now, I have made a post about my views on separating the art from the artist, previously. And I still stand by that post. When I said “There’s some creators you can’t avoid how nasty they are, because they scream it from the rooftops,” and “There are some people who do things that are so far beyond wrong that they cannot be looked at without that standing out as the most important thing about them. Their failures as a human outweigh any good that has or could ever come from them.” I specifically had JKR in mind. It is common knowledge what kind of person JKR is at this point. There is no question on what she is.

I recognize that the person behind the poll blog, that this post is about, may not like my view on this or on their statement regarding it. And I do in fact classify them under my general “no creator is a good nor perfect person” umbrella. But I will not be attaching their name to this, as I do not want anyone to harass them about it. I do not want harm to come to them about this. I would hope they would rethink how they had answered and perhaps actually acknowledge that they aren’t transphobic. But considering that would have been the easy answer to begin with, they probably are transphobic, and that really sucks.

And to anyone reading this, please do not harass the person this is about, if you do find them, or know who they are already. They are entitled to their privacy and safety, they are not actively spreading hate nor harm.

The fault I saw was in the way in which they answered the question. Because while no one is entitled to their political opinions, trans people were largely not a “hot political topic” until JKR stuck her nose in it and changed the political landscape drastically to include the prosecution of trans people. So yeah, people wanting to know if someone posting content, from that monster, is in line with her way of thinking, is actually them making sure they can curate their internet experience, by giving you the chance to be a part of that experience, given you weren’t a transphobe. Because HP itself does not condemn people for their gender nor call for their removal in spaces specifically for their gender, the writer does. The creator is 100% the problem.

People are allowed to post about HP all they want. While HP has other issues beyond it’s creator, such as the antisemitism laced throughout (also at the hands of the creator, fancy that), it is possible for people to enjoy it while standing against the creator. But those who are able to do that, are generally the kind of people who could actually articulate that they do not support JKR. And if you can’t articulate that, then it’s pretty glaringly obvious why that is something you would rather not talk about. And people who enjoy HP, but do not support JKR and would like to ethically consume HP media (without the burden of JKR supporters) are absolutely going to ask if you support JKR when you don’t outright keep HP off your blog.

TLDR: JKR is a pos and has caused unequivocal and irrevocable harm to a minority/marginalized community by using her money and voice to advocate against trans people, and I do not support her. I don’t actually think anyone is a good nor perfect person in the black and white of things. Don’t harass creators who aren’t using their platforms to cause harm to people. I will not be advocating for the removal of any content, because I have a perfectly functional block button and so do you. Make sure to register to vote/vote in your elections. Queer people are not something you can be politically/socially/economically against or for, because queer people exist and deserve to be treated as humans. And uhhh cis/cisgender/cishet aren’t slurs.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

Beefleaf isn't canon. Mxtx has said she doesn't like to write another gay ship different from the main (she struggled with svsss)

I have heard about this! The content I saw was just so insistent about Beefleaf that I wondered if maybe I was misremembering and the "no same-gender side couples" thing applied to MDZS only. (I have gotten similar vibes from Moshang and from whatever Yue QIngyuan and Shen Jiu's ship name is, but I've now obtained Vol. 1 of SVSSS and plan to read it, so if those two aren't actually canon, don't tell me! It can be a surprise!)

The "no side couples"--or, in MDZS's case, "no queer characters AT ALL besides the protag, his love interest, and the disgraced goth weirdo who annihilates himself to resurrect the protag"--thing confuses me, because... I guess I don't get the point of it? I totally understand not having the bandwidth to develop more than one couple. The challenge of adequately building up other relationships fully independent of your main couple without detracting from the exploits of your protagonist and his love interest could be daunting, as would expanding the story's focus and juggling multiple equally-prominent lead characters for an effective ensemble piece. But here it seems like people picked up a vibe between the characters from what was already there in the text and then MXTX was like, "oh, no, they're not a couple! there's just the one couple!" and THAT I don't get. If she's disinterested in writing women, but has a cast of attractive men who are all obsessed with each other, why not toss a romance in there between some of the guys? Again, you can keep it entirely as-is and just toss a kiss in there or confirm in interviews that yes, they were in love, and you're so happy readers picked up on that even though you didn't get to tell their full story on the page.

I am extrapolating based on the Xiyao situation specifically, so maybe this doesn't apply to her other works! But it is a choice that confuses me. A couple doesn't have to be that developed; Xuanli certainly aren't, but their existence is a major plot point. I should think that the presence of other m/m couples would bolster the main couple, if anything, because it sets a precedent for them existing in their world. There are situations where adding an expressly romantic element would change something fundamental about the relationship, but there are just as many where the addition of a romantic element changes nothing or makes it make more sense (case in point: Xue Yang's freakout after killing Xiao Xingchen).

Like I said, I get not wanting to devote energy to it, and I also get that sometimes a work or performance is received by the audience in ways the artist didn't intend (this is the Destiel website, after all), but to make it a conscious choice to have One M/M Couple Only? Based on what I currently know, this perplexes me.

[mintmatcha]

can u tell us what you didn't like about hazbin hot? I'm not a big musical person so I also tuned out when they started singing lol

Yes lol here's a long ass nonsense rant under the cut.

The creator of the show has done some really racist shit in the past and hides from criticism behind her queerness, but whenever that's brought up, it's immediately shot down and I'm told to separate the art from the artist.

that being said. here's my critique of the show itself.

but hazbin relies so much on material outside of the show. there's things you're supposed to know from twt and tumblr and other sources to make the show make sense. you can't say the show needs to exist in its bubble away from the creator and then make us dependent on the creator for information about the characters.

for me, it's less about "why is a show bad?" and it's more "what makes a show good?". Frankly, I don't think there's anything in this show to make it good.

First off- the show is ugly. The character designs aren't good and often repetitive (suits. same color palettes, same body shapes, etc) The animation itself isn't good either, unfortunately.

We have to stop pretending alastor isn't a crime to character design. He's so ugly. there's almost nothing redeemable about how he looks.

I thought the show itself had one of the weakest plots I've seen. it felt like the first draft of a 14 year old and tried to fit 5 seasons worth of ideas into 8 episodes, so the pacing was just awful. There's no semblance of time passing or real urgency in most episodes because vivziepop was trying to fit in all 50 of her OCs.

example: There was almost no reason for the V's to be in the show-- and the other overlords for that matter. None of them really do anything other than Valentino, who's just there to make Angel's story stronger in this season.

(not to mention Valentino and Vaggie, the series to latinx characters, fall into some fucked up stereotypes)

We are just told this collection of people is strong and scary, but we never really see WHY. It's a waste of time in a crammed show.

That being said, one of the main characters sir pentious had no real weight as a character and had less screen time than some of the nothing characters. Half of alastors time should have been used building him up, including, I dunno. all of episode three. There's no reason to introduce all of those characters other to give alastor the info that an angel has died, right? He's. The radio demon. he should just have some sort of news ability or connections to get him that info. (also that episode makes it really easy to know who killed the angel. there's no mystery to it.)

There are also so many things that simply don't make sense in the show? They are told almost immediately that their plan will not work, so they go to heaven to be told... the same thing.

Vaggie is amazed that angels can be hurt and killed when she is an angel who was hurt and almost killed. (Vaggie and Charlie have a super weak relationship btw. I think it's so poorly done. In a show about sucking dick and cock, it made me roll my eyes that the lesbians have such a pg relationship. how come everyone else gets to be horny other than the lesbians? Because its harder to fetishize? )

the ending was just. awful. Lucifer won the fight without that much of a struggle. It feels like he could have just done that. whenever.

Im going to get murdered for saying this but the songs aren't good, they just have a killer vocal cast. the backing music sucks every time.

[juniorfor2]

The amount of hatred specifically towards Emma this season, a non-binary person, and Olivia last season, a woman…I swear people think they’re not obvious but they so are.

But interestingly enough, it feels like most of the people being vitriolic towards Emma are LGBTQ themselves. And when they’re questioned if they are being transphobic or not, their only defense is ‘no I’m queer that’s impossible’…

Cause of course none of us have ever heard of a queer person excluding other parts of the community.

I get that the actors can say things totally off base from their character. I get that it’s frustrating. But most actors do not operate under the assumption that the writers absolutely hate a character or want to tell an original story when they are supposed to be writing an adaption. So if you’ve got a criticism of the writing, maybe blame the writers - you know, the ones hired to write this show?

The Dance of Dragons doesn’t have a lot of good characterization, least of all for Rhaenyra, whose whole narrative is absolutely engulfed in misogyny. And its parallels and connections don’t just span across Fire & Blood, but GRRM’s entire series, from The World of Ice and Fire to his main series around Daenerys. It’s not a light book in the slightest, so the actors were always going to need to trust that the writers knew what they were talking about.

I don’t know why people are trying to say that the actors should know the book characters inside and out - that is quite literally not possible for this book. They were always going to need to go off of what GRRM told the writers along with whatever creative license the writers took. That was always how it was going to be. Obviously Condal and Hess went off the rails here, but that’s not something the actors can control.

Would it be awesome if all the actors did not trust Condal and Hess, and did know exactly what their characters were like, and fought super hard to keep that characterization? Yes, obviously, but that wasn’t going to happen the moment C&H started to write their own misogynistic, essentially original story. How was Emma supposed to portray the book character when their show character is now a religious fanatic? How were they supposed to portray an excellent mother when every one of Rhaenyra’s lines is doubting her family? How were they supposed to portray a great love story with Daemon, when they’ve only got 1-2 scenes post S01E06 where they aren’t arguing with each other?

Matt Smith couldn’t do anything either to save Daemon this season, the writers changed him so badly. There was no way to make him better once he was made to be a completely different person.

Even when it came to Emma’s suggesting a kiss between Rhaenyra & Mysaria - if that had never happened, would it have suddenly removed all the romantic tension that the writers had already written in purposely beforehand? No, of course not - because they only suggested that scene when it went along with what was already implied. I wasn’t particularly a fan of the kiss when it should have been Laena and Mysaria should have been kept the sort-of-side villain, but that wasn’t going to happen regardless.

Emma is not at fault for the terrible writing this season. People have seriously got to let go of the transphobia, cause otherwise I know it’ll be off the rails next season. Why people view it as more acceptable to blame the non-binary actor rather than the writers who wrote the damn show, I will never understand, but people have got to quit.