#like one thing about byler is you have to read in between the lines

[strawberrybyers]

convinced that when mike and will both tell each other about how “it’s been a year, mike!” and “the truth is is the last year has been weird” isn’t in the context of talking only about the byers move to california. considering the byers haven’t lived in california for a year, then obviously they aren’t only talking about the move. you know what has been going on for a year though? mike and el dating.

mike and el started dating in season 2 at the snowball dance in december of 1984 and we catch up with their relationship in season 4 in march of 1986. this is when mike and will both bring up how the last year has been weird and they have felt disconnected from each other. i know we have theories on time being weird and everything, but i don’t think the use of the word “year” is to hint at a screwed up timeline, but to hint that el and mike’s relationship for the past year has been a problem between mike and will’s friendship and the relationship they have with themselves. they’re both feeling disconnected from each other and in season 3, their rain fight literally shows how el begins to get in between them.

it would make sense for will to feel like mike hasn’t been as connected to him as before because in season 3 he literally expresses that in their argument! will just wants to play d&d and have his friend pay attention to him, but mike is too focused on el. mike then mentions in season 4 when they’re talking that he was “too focused on el” and relates that as a contribution as to why things have been weird between him and will. i say that throughout the past year for mike he feels it’s been weird not only because within that space of time will moved, but because he realizes that he is in fact in love with will, or at least acknowledges that what he feels for will is not what he feels for el. this explains why he wouldn’t really call or write to will, but spent most of his time writing el because that was a way for him to convince himself that he is attracted to el. hence why when will questions mike on him not writing him, mike’s immediate defense is “we’re friends. we’re friends”. just like when will calls out mike on not being a good friend and only focusing on el, mike hits him with the “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls”. like bro, your responses have absolutely nothing to do with what will is trying to communicate to you!! anyways, the problem now is that el catches on to how he actually feels because he writes “from, mike” instead of “love, mike”. he then can’t even defend why he does it except for telling el she’s “ridiculous” and that “mouth breathers” are the problem. once again, mike is not addressing the issue at hand.

so yeah, mike and will express that their relationship has been disconnected and weird for a year, not because of only the move to california, but because mike being in love with will while dating el is not working for him and el, therefore, his actions then affect will and their friendship.

[greenfiend]

The Significance of Lover’s Lake and Byler (Theory) Part 2

Sequel to this post

(Warning: mentions of sex and drugs)

Okay so first of all, if you haven’t seen my previous post on my theory involving Lovers Lake and Byler, please read it first. I go over my theory and predictions for Byler and the heart shaped lake. This is a secondary post to it, outlining some VERY interesting details involving the owner of the lakeside house, the lakeside house itself, and all the romantic and sexual elements present. I’m saving the best for last here.

Let’s start with the owner of the lakeside house.

Reefer Rick

So I recently made a silly post arguing that the most queer coded character in Stranger Things is not Mike nor Will (nor Robin, Henry, Eddie etc), and I stand by this statement. The most queer coded character is: Reefer Rick. Now, I know we never see the guy, but literally all the information we have on him is either queer coding or drug references.

Synonyms of his name are literally f*g Dick, with a shared last name with the famous tea company founder who so happens to have been a homosexual: Lipton.

We know he doesn’t have a family, thus he’s a single man who occasionally has his buddy/fellow dealer Eddie stay over. Hm, not very heterosexual of him.

Then we have his movie list.

Now, as many of us know, the movie “Fast Times” is used within Stranger Things as a way to gage if someone is attracted to women or not. We have Steve, Dustin, Lucas, and Vickie all confirmed to have enjoyed this movie… specifically for that shot at 53 minutes and 5 seconds. Sure, Reefer Rick rented the film, but why is it the only movie he rented that was returned on time? For context, he’s the only character who had films listed as “late” returns. So, he obviously enjoyed Cheech & Chong a lot more. Two guys doing drugs is more interesting to him than a sexy lady. Okay, noted.

Now, how is he perceived by the people of Hawkins?

Oooof. Okay. He’s not well liked it seems. He apparently is causing some fear and anger amongst the Hawkins residents. Kind of similar of a reaction these people would have towards an openly gay man during the 1980s.

Also I have to include @/conflictofthemind ‘s excellent point that injectable drug use and unprotected sex (specifically between two men) were both commonly associated with HIV/AIDS… a major epidemic during the 80s and a major subtextual theme within the show.

Now, where’s this guy live while outside of jail?

I don’t blame the guy for “hiding” when the town is not too fond of him. Of course he is a drug dealer so there’s that as well. But interesting they used the word “hide”, which has been associated with queerness within the show already (plus this line was said by Robin (featured in the middle of the shot!!!) who is queer herself).

(Both of these screenshots are from 1x02 interestingly enough.)

Wouldn’t it make sense for these two “hiders” to hide out in “a perfect place to hide” together? Seeking refuge in a fellow gay man’s secluded house?

I will say it’s also worth noting that he does not have any women featured on the walls within his house. Also, he has a phallic shaped bong (we’ll get back to that soon).

Phew okay so that’s Reefer Rick. Are you still with me? Hopefully I didn’t bore any of you with this. I promise you this all leads back to Byler.

So, moving on to his house.

So as @/therainscene kindly pointed out, this poster with the smiley face can be related to rave culture and ecstasy in the 1980s. So a drug reference, in a drug dealer’s house… shocker I know. But I gotta say, ecstasy is also a term often related to sex. I also have to add this little tidbit from one of our favourite directors of Stranger Things, Shawn Levy. Keep in mind, he knows what’ll happen in the next season… and he’s directing episodes after 3 and 4…

Interesting word choice, no?

So, back to the symbolism within (and near) the house.

Let’s talk about the phallic symbolism that appears in pairs in these shots. It’s a choice, isn’t it? With two males in each shot. We know the Duffers love details and foreshadowing… I doubt it’s a coincidence. Also, anyone else notice that phone in the background? Just had to mention it, since our boys are frequently associated with phones and calls.

Then, of course, I gotta bring back this shot.

The bed. Blue meets yellow. You know it! We all heard it a thousand times by now. Let’s look at what else is in the shot. A closed closet. Another reference to our boys. To the right, you’ll see a toilet paper roll. Now, if you have a brother, you might see the same thing in his room. Sure it can be used as a tissue for your nose but let’s just say there’s usually another use for it. I’ll call it “self love”. So, basically, another sexual reference.

To sum up this house: lake/water, drugs, and ecstasy/smiley face. Now, let’s go back to a scene featuring our boys with all these elements in the background.

Makes you wonder doesn’t it?

I must also point out the “Paris” poster in the background. City of love, anyone? Plus the fireworks. They’re really trying to tell us something here.

Also, @/foodiewithdahoodie pointed out how Paris specifically was one of the first places to decriminalize sodomy.

You know, I also wouldn’t rule out every aspect of Murray’s prediction here.

Shout out to the Hylers out there!

Perhaps after a lot of stressful days of fighting interdimentional demons, these boys want to wind down and de-stress in their hiding spot. I can see Reefer Rick as a fellow Nintendo player, leaving his console behind, as well as his weed, for our boys to use. I also wouldn't be surprised if Eddie left a few of his beers behind. I mean… Murray has a pretty good track record for predictions. This would also really double down on the message that Mike and Will “aren’t kids anymore.”

Also, wouldn’t it be fun to look back at Murray’s predictions and realize that they’ve all come to be?

Okay, now let’s finally get to the romance elements!

First thing I want to start with is this shot:

So… they had to show us a mailbox, didn’t they? With that name “Lipton” which as I mentioned in my previous post… is associated with Thomas Lipton who had a lover named William Love.

1 point for #lettergate

And…

“Hope Our Love Lives/Lasts And Never Dies”

WWII solders used the acronym H.O.L.L.A.N.D. to convey a love message in a letter. The whole love letters association with Mike and Will never end, do they?

2 points for #lettergate!

As for the “2121”, I think it’s possible that it’s referencing multiple things… number references are tricky like that in my opinion. But I will say that @/thestrangestthing89 brought up the fact that “2121” could be a reference to “Twin Flames” which is yet another reference to romance.

Continuing on with the romance…

Let’s return back to the scene where Reefer Rick is first mentioned. After Max mentioned him, we are cut to Steve talking about a movie.

A movie filled with action and romance, you say?

So… Doctor Zhivago.

Basically a tale of two people in love during a difficult time (Russian Revolution) being separated, with other people, then finally reunited. Not completely unlike our boys. Notice how the “adult” sign is noticeable in the background. Not kids anymore.

He mentions action, which I’m sure there will be some of as well at the famous lake.

Okay enough with the silly details, let’s stop and look at the bigger picture.

Our beloved lake. Look how gorgeous it truly is. Plus the fact that it’s a literal heart? You can’t get more “on the nose” than that.

Now, who else is known as a heart? (Tough question I know…)

This boy is, without a doubt, narratively tied to the lake. He is “the heart”… he is THE LAKE (symbolically).

Thank you to @/everaster for bringing attention to the fact that after Mike was pushed to deliver that monologue to El by Will, Max “died”, then the gates opened WIDE. One of those gates, as we know, is located within Lover’s Lake… known was “watergate” (term coined by Dustin).

So, as of now in this story… Lover’s Lake is literally broken in two. A broken heart in need of mending.

Who better to accomplish that task than the boy who has known him for a decade and loves him completely and selflessly?

💌📬❤️‍🩹

Hope you enjoyed these posts as much as I enjoyed making them! It’s honestly so much fun looking for evidence and finding such interesting stuff. Some of it may be reaching, and that’s okay because it’s all in good fun! That’s what fandoms are all about.

The level of attention to detail in this show never ceases to amaze me! There’s so much depth and clues to look for and play around with. I hope to have sparked some inspiration and creativity for some people! 💛💙💚

As always, would love to know your thoughts!

[fiendforbyler]

wait y’all i just realised something that is probably niche as fuck but anyway! if you know/have read the Keeper of the Lost Cities series in it’s entirety you will understand the relationship/love triangle between sophie, fitz and keefe. from the beginning fitz is set up at sophie’s love interest, even as young kids (i believe she is 12 in the first book? and he is maybe a year older? not 100% it’s been a while). she crushed on him for majority of the series and finally in book 7/8 they get together with a seemingly very romantic gesture from fitz, with many hints during the series that fitz liked her back. point is: we were all rooting for them. it is imprtant to note that it’s also always been hinted at but later in the series confirmed that keefe has major feelings for sophie as well. for me, this is representative of mike/el/will love triangle, with sophie being mike, keefe being will, and fitz being el. now, i don’t really like fitz but i LOVE el so yeah this isn’t a flawless comparison but ANYWAY back to my main point!! keefe (will) is so likeable with a tragic backstory, troubling plot line, has a lot of trauma AND a sorry crush on a girl (boy) who (supposedly) has eyes only for one person since the beginning- something that has been clearly set up and formed into a seemingly sweet relationship readers have been rooting for from the beginning. yeah this is sounding familiar? here’s the problem (or solution for sophkeefe/byler shippers like i): ITS NOT WHAT SOPHIE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE. fitz pressures her into trying to find her bio parents so they could be matched, he is aggressive and possessive over her (not in a good way) and she breaks up with him. during this, i’m pretty sure she begins to crush on keefe as well- keefe in permanent denial she could ever like him back of course- and feels terribly guilty about it, because she still has feeling for fitz. (yeah i told you, not the perfect comparison but you understand what i’m getting at right?) while things with fitz get worse, sophie starts genuinely discovering how she really feels about keefe, with lines like “if she was really really honest- and really really brave- she had to admit that the idea of being with keefe sounded… kind of amazing. Yes, it was scary. and yes there were risks. but wouldn’t it be worth trying?” wouldn’t it be worth trying? ladies and gents, we just discovered mikes inner monologue!!! scary, risky, but worth it? its what will is to him! mike has always been “too insecure to let (him)self see what’s right in front of (him)” (a line taken from the book!!!!!!) will is in front of him. he is being so distracted by his internalised homophobia that he has NOOO idea what he is missing!! “‘SERIOUSLY, STOP!’ she told herself again…/ adding those kind of feelings to a friendship pretty much ruined everything. ( talking about fitz)”

and it’s all oh so familiar…

BUT WAIT! THERES MORE! finally, FINALLY, during our long awaited kiss scene, she says this:

“some tiny part of her head had always wondered if kissing keefe could really be as great as everyone claimed. but kissing keefe was so. much. better.”

yeah. and then blah blah they get interrupted by who? of yes of course fitzy the ex boyfriend is here. and he says what when he finds out? OH YEAH. “you kissed him? you didn’t even kiss me!”

THAT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE “you never say it/i say it” AND “i didn’t say it/you didn’t have to” or pretty much the same way mike acts around will vs el.

you know what else? mikes inability to say i love you to el (hasn’t kissed fitz) but so clearly communicate it to will (kissing keefe)

if you haven’t read all this (and i don’t blame you!!) just read this next paragraph!

but back to my main MAIN point. sophitz was the ship EVERYONE (except maybe a select few) wanted right up until they got together!! it was perfect on paper, cute, with history and seemingly ‘connected’ character (as per the plot), and as soon as they got together, everything fell apart, as well as sophie closing herself off and beginning to lose fitz even before the downfall of their relationship due to her suppressed feelings about keefe. (cough cough MIKE) they need to break up for her to realise keefe was the better match all along. keefe, who never thought he as a chance. keefe, who loved her from the start. KEEFE, WHO LET HIS BEST FRIEND HAVE HER IF IT MEANT HAPPINESS TO THEM.

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? please tell me i’m not crazy!! thank you for reading this it took me a long time to write but it also felt great to write this out even if no one reads this. hail to byler and a reminder we are one day closer to seeing them on screen. have a great day/night!

[bylrlve]

Warning! Spoilers for Stranger Things Season 5!

1.) (El talking) ‘what if you prefer us more as/than friends’ (note: each denotes a very different mindset in el than the other)

2.) (El talks) well, if we win/live, we can have a happily ever after

3.) (El talks) No. You should have (I am 99% certain of this considering what I can reasonably say I know about the hospital)

4.) (you should have been there?) but so much has happened, if it’s too much, you know…

5.) if it’s too much, you know… Will was with me…. you’re all friends to me

6.) so it’s okay, yes!

7.) El says something beginning with ‘but what if’)

8.) Of of course, you can X with me, whatever you’d like! - El seems to laugh at this. Perhaps Mike exaggerates her original words?

9.) but I mean…whatever happens… shrug

Notes:

I was running these for comparison against a partial m*leven transcript I’ve seen on twitter. The only plausible line,as far as I can see, is their reading of the first one as “but what if something happens to the both of us?” They read the next line as “… whatever happens, happens” and I can kind of see it but overall I think his mouth is too busy. They posited he was proposing running away or leaving Hawkins after everything ends and framed it around that, but I don’t agree with the choices they made - eg “I will come with you” instead of what I see: “of course you can still…with me”

The ‘Will’ part is obviously the part I’m least sure of. I’m really just conjecturing based on leaks. The best I can say is that I’ve checked it against clips of Mike saying Will’s name and it looks roughly the same but not conclusive. I am quite sure of ‘you’re all friends to me’.

I used @byler-endgayme’s excellent AI enhanced video here and put it into gifrun to make these gifs. It’s important to note that, between takes, Millie was wiping her eyes and nose. She was on a roof in January so she could have just been tearing up (and her nose running) from the cold. Finn doesn’t seem affected in the video here (from @cloudycleric) but women do have lower basal body temperatures than men. However, she could also have been tearing up in-character as Millie, suggesting it’s an emotional and heavy/cathartic scene. It’s also very important to note that this video is catching them in the middle of the conversation, and that there’s undoubtedly crucial stuff at the start that we’re not privy to.

It’s also worth noting that m*leven have had problems in episode 2s since season 2 - El reaching out to touch Mike and him walking away from the call, their breakup, and their disastrous roller rink date. Atlanta-filming insinuates in a comment that this occurs after the hospital plot in episode 2, and I will be discussing all of that in a big post out later today - and I have discussed it here already. The TLDR is that Mike is injured at the hospital and Will shows up distraught, but El is nowhere to be found - hence, why I’m reasonably confident that what he says is “no, you should have, you should have been there…”

[lucystark12]

Read your post on your opinions on Byler and why you think it’s a genius love story. I’m curious though you mentioned Mike being gay, rather than Bisexual. I’ve been in the fandom since s1 and never actually thought abt it that way, what’s some evidence that made you see gay Mike instead of bi Mike?? I’d love to hear your thoughts!

up until i got on tumblr a few weeks ago (very new to this business haha) i didn't really have super strong opinions on his sexuality either way. i was kinda just like, okay, mike is queer in some sense of the word, but the more i've read theories and thought about it, i feel it's almost more powerful if he's explicitly gay. this is in no way biphobia- i'm bi- and i don't at all believe that him being bi would discredit the importance of his character being queer in the grand scheme of queer representation, but i do feel like having a character who actively grapples with feelings of inadequacy out of insecurity based in not being able to love his girlfriend the way he thinks he's supposed to and deep seeded disgust and internalized homophobia with himself and his own faults especially when there's just SO MUCH beautiful and real love between straight couples around him- think lumax and jancy- is really intelligent and insightful writing. as far as evidence goes, i think there really is a lot of importance in him not being able to tell el he loves her. yes, you could say that it's just because he flat out doesn't love her, but you could also say that he knows that he doesn't and could never love her in the way he thinks he should should, in the way she deserves. that's why will's real and genuine love confession through the eyes of el makes him think "okay, maybe this could work. she loves me in the way she's supposed to, maybe it's possible". the reason will's words are so fueling for him is because they serve as proof and validation that he isn't doing anything he deems wrong and that there is the same level of beauty and intimacy in their relationship that there is in lumax or jopper or jancy. this leads in to my painting theory and how i think learning the truth about the painting will ultimately be the thing that makes mike face his internal conflicts head on because he will realize that he doesn't and can never have this perfect heterosexual relationship because he isn't heterosexual.

wow i just went on a crazy rant there hello

also- lucas's season one line about mike only liking el because she's the first girl to look at him or something like that is a good one too

[wisehearts]

what do you think are Will and Mikes favorite spots to mark each other? in the fics I’ve read it seems common for it to be the junction between the neck and shoulders and I like that for them but idk…. I just feel like there’s so many other options to choose from

ohhh very fun question... so much potential you're right! Even though that spot is so good and so melt worthy, there are other places to be their favorite/most drawn to...

okay hear me out on a similar thing though. I think even if the neck is something common to mark up, we do have a great reason for it with byler -> I think mike would end up really liking marking up the spot where will's connection with vecna is (was, in their future). I can see will loving that, reacting more when mike's lips reach there. it's a way for mike to clear will's mind but also claim will, help him start associating those goosebumps with something better, with him.

For me immediately one of mike's favorite places to mark will has to be his inner thighs. god. he just becomes a mad man between will's legs of course he spends plenty of time nipping at the tender skin while will squirms over the pleasurable pain.

and of course, most obviously, I'm sorry but it's will's ass. more tender smooth skin for him to nip at. lovingly and sloppily. not just biting but marking with his handprints and bruises too 🥰 his hips too. I've also had a specific headcanon for a while that will has a mole where the top of his left thigh/under his ass meet, and I think mike should suck the skin around that because he loves it so much 🫶

will... lately I've been thinking about him loving mike's chest since it's gotten so broad. I'm sure collarbones is a popular place for him to mark (and I do love that too with mike's paler skin) but let him travel down a bit, squeeze a pec with his hand, kiss them before lightly sinking his teeth into the skin. hickeys near his nipples, right on the swell.

I think he'd like marking mike's tummy too. easy to mindlessly and obsessively mark as he trails further down to the main event, doing it almost out of his own excitement. dark spots blooming on the skin near the even darker trail of hair leading to his cock. even the lines of the V will likes to run his tongue along. will always feels mike's stomach cave in as he breathes from the little stings and presses soothing kisses to the ticklish area

aah I need to stop here before I just type out their whole bodies 😭 but in terms of marking with their mouths yeah I lean towards these!

[willbyerswithpowersblog]

Controversial opinion but although as a queer person I understand why some might be bothered by how byler would be like a "queer plotwist" I can understand why the writers would do it this way and why, one as a writer would want to do it this way.

Why them don't get together until the last season, why make Will's feelings for Mike super obvious in the penultimate season, why blur this line between what is romantic and what is platonic between Mike and Will.

One of the major goals and objectives of most writers is to surprise the audience, but not to surprise the audience with things like "the killer was actually this character who never appeared or was mentioned before, surprise!" that feels cheap. But the kind of plotwist that upon re-watching something or re-reading something makes you think "wow, how could I not have seen that coming, the clues were there all along", the ones you could have predicted if you had paid enough attention to it.

If we think about it for a lot of people Will being gay and liking Mike was like a plotwist despite all the clues and queercoded around Will and the Duffers knew this, this is why the actors and others were always so vague about Will's sexuality before vol2, "it's up to interpretation", "he's just afraid to grow up".

And the hints for byler are there. Regardless of whether someone likes it or not...

«If you've been watching the show you should know Will isn't interested in El he's interested in someone else in the group»

— David Harbour.

«We talked about it a lot in the writer’s room and the best twists are ones that you go, “Oh, I should have seen that coming.” As opposed to the twists that go, “Oh, well that just came out of nowhere.” »

— Ross Duffer.

«You'll look back and say “we've been seeing this story the whole time, we just haven't realised it” To me, that's wonderful»

— David Harbour.

[castlebyersafterdark]

I've been wanting to make my own list of fic recs for this side of the fandom. this is just a short little quick recollection. i love so many fics and writers - this micro-fandom is really talented. but these are my personal favorites:

i've never done this before, can you help me out? - I actually almost find it difficult to talk about this one? It's just so good. THE (infamous?) orgy fic, first off. And it's one of the sweetest, most romantic fics ever? So engaging. The characterizations, the sex scenes, the emotions, the depiction of that culture. Really good. But, there were some parts about Will's character that just, in admission of full vulnerability, really sat with me and felt familiar and it was almost too much! Even if my life is nothing like the lifestyle depicted here hahaha. Like. I got it. I understood him, in some ways. I only read this one sporadically as it updated, looking forward to sometime in the future sitting down to re-read it from beginning to end. This fic was also the push that made me decide to switch over to this side of the fandom and make a real account. Made me want to try writing again after half-assing it and neglecting my interest in fic writing❤️

time is a perception, love will cure depression - This one is actually Steve/Will and honestly - here for it. So hot. Will is VERY relatable here. It just feels authentic for a kid like Will coming into his own, understanding and acknowledging his desires. And the way Steve treats him with such care??? Oh, this fic is honestly everything to me. And it really captures the formative experience of lusting after some older guy in hot swimwear which is so niche to me but damn, this is it. I was so excited to find this little gem.

in the midnight hour - I have re-read this one about half a dozen times and honestly, I'll admit this specific fic inspired so much of how I tend to characterize Will and Mike just because they are PERFECT as to how I also view them. So many little moments just blew my mind. I have such a thing for trusting, loving, and intoxicated sex scenes in fiction and irl and this one is perfect perfect prefect for that kind of specific trope? It can be so caring and hot in the right context and this was just so good. Please read it for the first time or read it again! This was the other fic that made me want to try writing seriously again. Not only was it a really sexy story - it's just a lot of fun. Love that.

no lifeguard on duty - Cannot wait for this one to continue/finish but it's so good so far. I like the hyper-realism, the summer vibes. The whole scene with the bathing suit was soooooo interesting, I was reeling, I'm here for it. Anything that explores experimentation between these two pre-relationship is great, one of my favorite Byler tropes.

any semblance of touch - I'm weak for a good 'Mike and Will get high and it leads to them shotgunning and making out and grinding together' fic and I feel like I've read a few like this, but this one is A++ and sticks in my brain.

asking too much - I was hooked from the line "Not to be too graphic, but all I want is a nice, good-looking man who can fuck me hard" and I was obsessed the entire read. WILL you are so valid, babydoll. Love this fic a lot.

privacy - Another really interesting fic focusing on experimentation and all that lovely stuff. Mike is ridiculous in this and I'm obsessed with him and his gay little journey here as Will just absolutely loses his mind.

sexual healing - What can I say, always love a really well done 'classic porn set-up' fic, let's be honest hahaha. Masseuse/client??? All you needed to say. Fantastic.

my baby lives in shades of blue - Anything that depicts Mike and Will as super codependent and obsessed with each other is gold in my eyes. This one delivers. All the best things here. Slutty halloween costumes? Byler getting supremely handsy with each other? Clingy boyfriends? Accidental admission of kinks through dirty talk mid-fuck? Love it all.

There's a lot of other really good ones as well! These just stick in my mind. Love this fandom, everyone is so talented ❤️❤️❤️

[sterlingarcher23]

Max's memories are forshadowing: ElMax & Lumax

Inventive foreshadowing creates a sense of unity in a story even when the audience may not be consciously aware of the foreshadowing and payoff., David Trottier

Sort of. The happy memories actually give us the basic structure of Max's character arc in regards to relationships in Season 5. (As far as there is scene material because I think there's something else.)

Now the first thing is Lucas & Max from S4, but then they start to show us several scenes but completely out of order.

Lucas "I'm right here" (at her bedside - S4 or 5?), Swallowing the red Skittle/the ghost like Pac-Man mid flight ("You were wearing that yellow benny's burgers t-shirt and it was so big it almost swallowed you whole")=consumption of a ghost, followed by the linking sequence, going back to S2 apso out of order, the boys meeting the killer & Lucas and Dustin teaming with Max, the ghost trap, photos of ElMax, like frozen in time (Doctor Who=single moment in time). Lucas and Max when he calls her Madmax (like Mad Max Rockatansky), again ElMax together ....

...even Mike appears (a talk between him & Max like Kota and Lucy having a conversation?), foreshadowing the movie date, ElMax hugging, Lumax not unhappy and, Highfive! Winners.

Lover in the mind - lover in the physical world.

Lucas speaks to the dying (physical), El speaks to the going (mind).

Both have patterns that need another verse in order to rhyme bc of a tiny change midway through (similar to a certain D&D bridge puzzle😉)

Elumax Endgame.

Byler on the left, ElMax on the right, both when Will or Max respectively, have their possession phase.

Oh, and the movie date scene is a basic story writing technique: a promise. And this needs a payoff. The question isn't IF but HOW. (And how you get abilities is been established in Season 4.)

It's you and me won't be unhappy.... Promise, progress, payoff.

So, they made a promise, are now (with the revival) in the process of a progress which will be added through the way how Max will wake up....

...and this will get a payoff. Simple. Right now, most can't imagine how, given the circumstances even though the writers gave us the rules for doing it and every foreshadowing possible that will lead to a payoff. Max can't feel nor see - both! So, either both will be mended or none. Excluding one is bad writing. - So, its both. We learned how, therefore it's not a Deus ex machina, and we will learn why. Max only needs to take his, I mean her medicine. Darn pronouns.

That payoff is only possible through ElMax and note how they use sequences with them in which they are physically close to one another after the mall scene in which they link, like they are...inseparable.

Here separated...

...after this they are combined. Linked. "Love goes through the stomach"

It's all One and One for all = 11

A bit dated (admittedly)

[spicybylerpolls]

It’s so funny to me that people don’t allow you to talk about actors’ chemistry without mentioning shipping. Is this a fandom thing or an immaturity thing? And does shipping mean that you harass the actors or make your opinions widely known? Or can it mean thinking it would be cute for them to be together but leaving it at that? 

Cos surely anyone can read the body language and tension between Noah and Finn in interviews. This may be due to the awkwardness of them portraying a romance together, sure. But it could also be more? Like, if you grew up around a friend like that and then realised you were gay and had been playing a character who was in love with that person’s character for half your life, and you now had to portray intense romantic (and possibly sexual) scenes with them, you think there won’t be some feelings or imagining going on? It’s just biology.

It doesnt mean they belong together or should be together or are even compatible, but just that there’s an attraction there of some kind. Just watch Noah in the s4 interviews and it tells you everything you need to know. He can’t take his eyes off Finn and in the yearbook one with him and Millie, when the interviewer mentions Finn’s music taste he starts blushing and fidgeting in a way he didn’t at the mention of literally any other actor. 

Yeah, it could be awkwardness at not wanting to give the twist away, but that kind of awkward looks different. That’s what Finn’s is like. Noah’s is definitely more crush behaviour. It’s adorable tbh, but does it mean I ship that? I just noticed it. I wasn’t even a byler at the time. These details would be swooped on in a second if it were Mike and Will, and yet if you mention them in relation to real people, it crosses a line.

As for Finn, I think he has a soft spot for Noah but their personalities are so different that he finds him a bit overwhelming at times, but as they grow up that will level out into respect (as long as there aren’t any major conflicts). There’s also that one interview for GQ of Finn answering the internet questions and his body language and expressions also change at the mention of his and Noah’s heights. It’s kind of flirty and cheeky… sort of the way Mike looks at Will in the bedroom scene (“I didn’t say it”). 

I think they’ll make s5 something really beautiful, if the way they worked together in s4 is anything to go by, and I don’t think that appreciating these two actors’ connections makes me a bad person or a toxic real person shipper. Humans have always been fascinated by chemistry and connection and attraction and it shouldn’t be shamed as long as you’re not engaging in toxic behaviour or harassing the actors. 

That said, byler are infinitely more interesting to me because they're a completely fabricated story where everything is intentional. But I’m curious about why people don’t like recognising irl chemistry. So...

I don’t think there’s anything between noah and finn at all and neither am I interested in that

It violates a boundary and you should only focus on the characters

Of course they have a connection but who even cares? *BYLER ONLY SIGN*

I don’t think they have a connection but I would enjoy it if they did

There’s definitely something there and it’s fun to notice!

I think they have something but it's not our place to speculate

I’ve picked up on it but am scared people will judge me so don’t talk about it

I’ve stopped shipping irl people because I’ve had disappointing experiences before

I've stopped shipping irl because I was harassed in the past by fans

Please note that the purpose of this blog is not to be creepy or to make anyone uncomfortable. That's why I created the #spicy byler tag (I will tag all polls with this). If you don't want to see this blog or anything related to it on your feed, please block that tag. Not everyone is comfortable with this sorta stuff, and that's okay.

[chirpsythismorning]

Hi.what make you believe byler is endgame and how do you think The Duffer will make them endgame?

There's a lot of different factors for why I believe byler is endgame. If it was only one or two or three or a single digit amount of things, then I'd probably be more skeptical. Instead it's so many things that I don't think I can even quantify with any number?

Long post ahead so queue for later if you must!

I used to ship milkvan back in the day, and that's probably because I watched the show once and fell for the whole boy meets girl trope as peak romance, without even thinking about it? Like my first time rewatching the show pre-s3, I remember only focusing on their scenes and even going as far as to skip entire episodes in s2 without them in it, so it's really no wonder I missed details that might have helped me understand the full picture.

I also don't get queer-baited, like ever. I have watched shows like Teen Wolf where fans loved sterek, and even though that show had a gay show-runner, it was obvious to me they were never going that route, despite kind of feeding fans over the years with banter between them. The problem was the details weren't pointing to them being endgame, they were pointing to stydia. With stydia, they were using color coding in their costumes and had the fucking red string of fate in the frame with them multiple times and they were having entire plot lines built up around sort of their feelings for each other. Then there's all the other shows out there like Supernatural and Sherlock, and to me, it just felt like two guys that had chemistry that fans read as romantic and were having fun with it, only for the writers to try to profit off of that hope fans had, just sort of fucking with fans for years without really going for it literally in the text of the story.

And even if they did (albeit extremely subtly) that's when you would see shows tend to kill off the characters. Because after years of queer-baiting, the only solution is to kill at least one off, after tricking a sector of your audience for so long. Because unfortunately, no, they're not going to end up together, so we just have to get rid of one of them to make it clear that it won't happen.

While I don't vividly remember the moment I dropped Milkvan and picked up byler, I do remember watching s3 for the first time and feeling like something was off. And then to humor my confusion, I went online and came across an analysis for the end of s3. Even though it did really made me think like 'woah.. what was that?', in the moment, I was still in a position to not want to fall for it because of all the queer-baiting out there. I'd never fallen for it before and I wasn't going to start now basically.

And then I didn't read any more theories after that, I just basically jumped into rewatching the show for fun again, without really thinking about it even, and without skipping this time. And I vividly remember the shed scene definitely had some romantic undertones going on. When the camera was focused on Mike talking to Will, we didn't get any reaction shots in between of Joyce and Jonathan. Whereas when Joyce and Jonathan talked to Will, we got Mike's reaction and both Jonathan and Joyce's kind of reactions to each others speeches in that moment, which was to obviously convey the familial bond going on. And so in contrast, seeing Mike's monologue to Will be isolated, without any cuts to the others reactions during, with intense close-ups of Mike and Will, with Mike literally having one by one teardrops falling down his face and him repeating softly you said yes, you said yes... That... Like it made me really start to consider it in that moment, based on my new potential understanding of the end of s3 and based on what I had found upon rewatching that time.

Even still though, I didn't let myself believe it. And maybe in large part it was bc I did like the idea of byler I guess? And so that made me want to be more cautious? Other times when I came across fans shipping queer pairings that weren't canon, it felt like harmless shipping to me, where like I got the appeal, but didn't like feel genuine intentional slow-burn chemistry? It was always a thing that at most I liked merely as fanon. And so I guess I was trying to prepare myself for that inevitable disappointment that it wasn't going to go any further than what it had?

Maybe it was also because I was holding onto this idea of milkvan I had at the beginning? An idea that in large part contributed to my ability to get hooked with the show in the first place? Boy meets girl is like the most universal trope in our society and it was easy to just go along with it when everyone else was.

But more than anything I do think it was because I thought it just had to be queer-bait like it's always has been. At best I thought maybe it would continue very vaguely in the subtext in s4, with like 1 or two scenes at most hinting at attraction? But we all know that's not what happened..

S4 promo dropped, and I remember being like well here goes. It had been over a year, almost two since I'd been exposed to the possiblity of byler, though I was going into it prepared to see Mike and El being perfectly in love and that they were just going to act like nothing had ever happened between Mike and Will.

But then that Cali poster dropped. And that had me reeling. I remember sending a text to my sister like 'QUEER-BAIT?' and she was like yep queer-bait. But that's also because she's in the mindset of someone that hasn't seen anything outside of watching the show, and while half paying attention at that. This is the first piece of evidence she is being presented with and so of course she is viewing it from a don't hope or assume that could ever happen bc it never happens lens.

Even that I took as maybe a reality check, that this meant nothing, but also at the same time, this is the Duffer Brothers? They're smart? Why would they apply the if boy is pointing his feet at you he is in love with you rule via New Girl, with Mike and Will in the Cali poster, for shits and giggles? When the whole point in those posters is to hide foreshadowing?

Regardless of how much it genuinely shocked me they were appearing to really play with this concept of Mike having romantic feelings for Will, I still didn't fully let myself think about it too much...

And then as s4 got closer and more stuff dropped and there was like a lot of promo hinting Will having feelings for Mike, that's when it really kicked in for me. And that's when I went back and rewatched and holy shit it suddenly became clear as fucking day. My excitement for Vol. 1 was insurmountable because I was just about to have all of these recent built up theories confirmed or denied.

When Vol. 1 finally premiered and it turned out Mike couldn't say I love you to El? And Will very clearly had feelings for Mike, staring at him constantly when he wasn't looking and conveniently with Mike's POV missing by comparison? There was just too much at play that perfectly set-up byler.

Mike having a hard time telling El he loves her, while also having a best friend beside him who is in love with him, like, that's sort of what makes it clear that this is them trying to create a conflict that easily transitions into this revelation that the reason why Mike couldn't commit to El was because he was struggling over repressed feelings for his best friend.

And then that doesn't even include all the details along the way that support it. Like closet scenes for example weren't able to be harmless anymore post-s3, they just weren't. That scene at the end with El and Mike in Will's room established this idea that Mike is in the closet, and s4 did not let up on that idea whatsoever.

We were being bombarded with very basic film techniques that any filmmaker would be thinking about to establish the story and setting and create a feeling to convey a message through all of that.

They did not need to have Mike sitting in front of his closet at the very start of s4. They did not have to have a one way sign pointing to it. They did not have to have two dudes with muscles on his walls while most of the other guys either have stuff completely unrelated to the human form or bikini clad woman. They did not have to show Mike in focus more while staring at Eddie fondly as he talks about DnD and getting out of Hawkins. They did not have to have Mike go searching for DnD replacements in the wrestling room and the art room followed by saying, I hate high school.

The I hate high school line is viewed by most of us as a throw away comedic sort of line. But it really isn't. In fact it's arguably as deep as without heart we'd all fall apart, which is why they literally had that be Mike's quote alongside that one being Will's quote for the season.

Mind you, all of this shit in 4x01 is happening after Mike just episodes ago, in the previous season, sort of treated playing DnD like it was something kids did and told Will he felt this way, by essentially saying he assumed they'd be getting girlfriends and moving on from this idea that they can play games for the rest of their lives.

So Mike in s3 went from I want to grow up and have a girlfriend and stop playing dnd bc it is childish, to in s4 Do you want to play with me? I will literally settle for an absolute stranger rn, literally anyone? No? Uh. I hate high school aka I don't want to grow up. Now he thinks that he's the childish one when really, it doesn't have to be, if he just opened his mind to it.

Watching s3-4 back to back is actually so real bc it's showcasing Mike's complete shift, a shift that basically got flipped from s1-2 to s3 to s3 to s4, and it's directly related to his relationship with El and Will (along with his parents who all of s2 punished him by taking away his toys when he acted out bc of trauma/called his toys hunks of plastic and to essentially be used as collateral bc he's going to need to grow up eventually anyways). And we see how that is conveyed when he shows up to Cali unlike his true self, he just reverts right back to trying to be someone else like in s3. Only now he's trying to pull off a Cali look on-top of it, wearing sunglasses as he mumbles an incoherent sound, something like, 'eahauw' as he rushes up to kiss and hug El, putting the flowers between them so he had an excuse to separate sooner than later, followed actually voicing words to will, moving his duffel back out of the way to hug will properly, w/out sunglasses, visibly very happy to see Will, only to not even be able to hug him by cutting it short. AND for Argyle to confirm our suspicions by calling him a knock off?? NOW I'M REALIZING IT'S TOO MUCH YELLOW? Come on!?

That's another thing, the end of s3 hug between Will and Mike literally ends with Mike looking like he is in physical pain. Like dude looks like he was burned. He looks like a mixture of angry and heartbroken. And so having that, followed up with Mike barely even being able to properly hug Will properly 2 episodes later..? Gee I wonder why?

And then it just spirals from there.

The entire season Mike is by definition emotionally cheating on El, assuming that they are even technically still together atp. There's a reason they had her say From El, and it's so that there was this sense of maybe they were technically broken up now or even just on a break rn, since they wouldn't see each other for who knows how long? Maybe never again? And so that was a writing choice made in large part to allow all of these moments between Mike and Will throughout the season to feel romantic coded and for us to comfortably view them as such. Same with how they did that with Jonathan and Nancy in s2. They create conflict that is near breakup territory, without outright saying I want to break up, and then they throw them with their other love interest and create tension.

When it comes to like how I think s5 could go down with byler, I have a few different thoughts about how that would play out. Obviously I love byler but there's a lot of other stuff going on so this would just be one aspect of the greater overall story. But for the sake of this post I'm going to focus on Byler possibilities.

Them holding off until Vol. 2, literally 2 weeks exactly after the premiere, to have Noah officially release a statement saying We now know Will is 100% gay and in love with Mike, that is them clearly knowing the gravity of revealing stuff too soon to an audience that might not be ready for it. They saw the reaction to s4 and they waited and then they made that choice to discuss it the way they did. That was the point they decided they were willing to tell the truth of the situation, including Noah admitting for the first time, that they've been hinting at Will's feelings since s1, and so he had to always be vague about things to avoid spoiling the Duffers surprise. And while they're doing this, when they talk about Mike's feelings about the situation, it is always that he has absolutely no idea.

There would be no justifiable reason to hold off on admitting Will's feelings for Mike outside of canon, only to admit they've been hinting at it since s1, if there wasn't actually something yet to see be revealed, making this revelation so late in the game, justifiable.

The main thing that we get from Mike being oblivious of Will's feelings, is that if Mike doesn't know, then technically he hasn't rejected Will yet. Because how can he have rejected Will if he has no idea? Answer, he can't!

And so now there is one season left and they are choosing to hold off on Mike's knowledge about Will's feelings? After they just finally admitted after 4 seasons that they've been avoiding telling us about Will's feelings, despite hints from the beginning because they didn't want to ruin the surprise?

What surprise though bro? Slow-burn unrequited love??? There isn't any such thing. Because that wouldn't be satisfying!

It takes us right back to the line Will makes in s3 (mid-series) to Joyce about how he's never gonna fall in love. It's not that he doesn't want to or even hasn't yet at all, it's that he doesn't believe experiencing mutual love with the person he has feelings for is in the cards for him, bc odds are, that person is going to be straight.

But... How is it satisfying to hold off on even admitting Will's feelings for Mike until the second to last season, only to hold off on Mike's POV of the situation until the last season, just to say at the last minute, Well, Will, you were right!...? Like, no.

And so I genuinely think the same thing they did with Will is happening to Mike in a sense, in that by sort of dancing around the situation with answers that don't even allow you to answer the question, by saying Mike is clueless, they can avoid delving into what exactly Mike would think. They can just say Oh of course he will accept Will and leave it at that.

The thing is, if I'm supposed to be rooting for Mike and El, these choices that they've been making, to practically infect all of their scenes with Will in the frame looking like a kicked puppy, it's not giving endgame, it's giving I should be praying for this kid to get a happy ending who is fully convinced that he won't get it.

The main question I have, is are they going to hold off the slow-burn for as long as they can, or are they going to do something unprecedented and make it happen sooner than anyone expects?

I guess for now I think that it's the most likely they will hold off until 5x07 for like the big obvious endgame moment? Slow-burn tends to thrive in it's true form, aka slow-burn until the very end. So it would make sense to have these barriers in place that prevent Mike and Will from truly realizing they have mutual feelings or something of that nature, and then acting on it. That doesn't mean the audience wouldn't be clued in on those feelings earlier in the season, but I think them both accepting those feelings and coming together and choosing to be together is something that won't be like established fully until the end.

THOUGH I will say there is one scenario I could see them manage to have Mike and Will realize those feelings sooner than we think and it's because of the satanic allegations... If Will and Mike were to ever get caught in a precarious situation, by someone in the town already accusing these kids of being the cause, specifically Mike as a member of Hellfire and specifically Will as the kid who has been connected to all of this, it would be sort of visceral seeing how that could play out with them being viewed as like a symbolic indicator of the incoming apocalypse.

Though then again, they still might not get together until like episode 7, bc with the last couple episodes being like 2 hours long, it's possible the homophobic/satanic aspect of it could come into play around then. I think it would be really critical to see other peoples reactions in the story to them getting together, including their family and friends, but also potentially the community bc that would go full circle with what went down in s1 and how like the whole community had an opinion about Will's sexuality even as a kid.

Early s5 is a big indicator of how everything will go down though. I don't think that they'll get separated and be apart the whole season, bc they made a point to convey in s4 that they want to make sure to give the audience a lot of groundwork to root for them and so I think s5 has to be much of the same for it to end in a way that has most of the audience full-on rooting for them and just screaming at their screen for them to kiss already.

However, I do think it's possible we could see them get separated for like 1 episode, maybe 2 but probably not 2 full episodes, I think the reunion would happen sometime at the end of 1 or 2 episodes.

I think Will is likely going to be targeted by Vecna, arguably already was at the end of s4, and then there's birthdaygate to address. Maybe he gets forgotten by everyone as a result of the memory/time trickery that Vecna has going on. And so we could see that play a role in them being separate for a bit while that is resolved, which would likely be early s5, to sort of mirror early s1. But then I think they would reunite by like the 3rd episode and work together most of the season as a team. And we will probably be aware of Mike's feelings in these moments because we would've just presumably gotten a bunch of parallels to s1 and considering Mike and El are broken up, it's going to be difficult to see Mike be so up in arms about Will after all of that romantic subtext, only to be with him and be looking at him like he hung the stars and shit. Even if Will isn't doing the same bc he's like convinced himself at this point Mike doesn't like him back, that would just make it even more clear bc it would be them finally showing us Mike's POV, after hiding it so much in s3-4. It would also sort of wake up those fans who had insisted Mike couldn't feel the same bc there would be no reason to do all of that for nothing.

Another way I could see it going down is by Mike basically somehow making 'a deal with god' (Vecna) that takes him instead. Maybe it's about saving Will who is trying to sacrafice himself already. Or maybe it's a way to save Max and it's sort of a last minute thing that is intended to cause them a lot of grief. Bc we know Vecna loves fucking with them. This would fit into the whole without heart we'd all fall apart, and the whole how am I gonna survive a whole week w/out you guys and Mike getting out in the DND game at the start of s4, along with like the whole theory about how if a paladin breaks an oath they basically have to go on a mini self discovery journey and can essentially be reinstated and forgiven by a cleric (Will). That would fit very very well into the imagery we got of Mike sitting down on Jonthan's bed with the upside down tapestry behind him, followed by Will sitting down beside him + Mike sitting down on the upside down couch at the cabin, followed by Will sitting down beside him. Meaning basically Mike would end up in the upside down and Will would follow behind him.

And I think in that scenario we might be seeing some things from Mike's POV that we have overlooked before, or maybe even things they have deliberately kept from us for the sake of saving it for later. Maybe that unused footage of him crying biking home after they found Will's body, or maybe they re-contextualize the cliff scene in a way that sort of frames Mike as feeling like he deserved to die that day bc after everything that happened with El, maybe he doesn't feel like he deserved to be saved by her, like Vecna just overwhelms him with the guilt that's been piling up for years, which led him to that failed monologue.

Also I think there is a very specific reason they chose to not use the song Time After Time in Max's memory of the Snow Ball in s4, and that's because they're saving it for s5. Every Breath You Take was regarded by most the fandom as a Milkvan song, and if anything it fit with all of them dancing more than it did specifically with Max's memory from that day. So them bringing that back for s4 felt like a combination of the Vecna foreshadowing and also them refusing to use Time After Time quite yet... Time After Time started playing right when Lucas asked her to dance, they easily could have used that song instead and left Every Breath You Take for s5 for a milkvan montage, hell Time After Time even would have fit well with the whole clock theme going on in s4.

But, I genuinely think it's because they're holding off on fully, in canon, re-contextualizing our understanding of that Snow Ball scene when it comes to Mike and Will's perspective of it. And how that song would fit into that revelation is a little to perfect to pass up, again on a show that has made a big deal about clocks and also has connected Will/Mike to the clock in Starcourt with the Yellow and Blue hands ie you say go slow I fall behind-- the second hand unwinds is fucking clock coded bro???

They are 100% saving that clock ass song for the end and that just tells me byler has to be endgame bc that song literally ended right before El entered the gym, it has no association to them, only to either Lucas/Max, Dustin/Nancy, or Mike/Will. That's it.

And so arguably the build up of Mike and Will is the only way to satisfyingly bring that song back full circle.

I guess I'll keep it simple and say that I think one of them are going to go missing/dissapear/be taken (something along those lines) early s5, and the other is going to find them and they're going to be a team basically. I think there could be 1-2 episodes of them alone sort of in the pits of the UD (Hell vibes). Maybe there's an almost kiss in those moments, or maybe even an official one bc them being alone finally is what grants them the courage to do what they haven't been able to do in the real world without the fears of the real world stopping them?

Though I do think that they will reunite with the others after 1-2 episodes alone. And so most of the season will be them teamed up with the og party and also having interactions with other characters along the way as well.

I do think a Murray/Byler confrontation is inevitable. I do think a Will & Robin confrontation is inevitable. I do think it's possible Mike could be exposed to the idea of having a gf then a bf (and vs) by Vickie in the case that Mike finds out bisexuality is real and an option. Bc tbh it's still something people today don't know about. So I don't think Mike Wheeler in 1986 Hawkins, Indiana would, though again maybe an interaction with Vickie could change that. Either that or Robin, Vickie and Steve are going to see Mike call Fast Times overrated and they're all going to share a look and that's when we'll know...

I do think that Will is going to have a hard time believing Mike could feel the same, even when presented with evidence? Not only does he have his insecurities in the way, but he also views El as his sister now (hell she might even actually turn out to be his twin). Even though Mike is his best friend, he's going to want it to be crystal clear that El supports it before Mike ends up being in their family via them being partners at some point. That's just who Will is as a character. He's just going to assume he is wrong for wanting that considering everything that has led up to this point.

And i think El is the kind of character that, no, she wont be like ecstatic about how this all played out and how she didn't need to get her heartbroken, but I don't think that feeling will last forever. I think they might have a little sibling talk about lying, assuming she finds out about the painting and what he said to Mike about her commissioning it. That would be a good parallel to her and Will at Rink-O-Mania when he chastised her for lying to Mike? Essentially an Oh how the turntables moment? Even so, when it's all said and done, she's going to make it clear to Will that she supports him fully.

And I think the same applies to Mike who also is going to want closure that they are okay and still friends and love each other as friends/family.

I think how all of this plays out would be very intricate, yes, but largely keeping in mind that they want us to like this ending and not be bitter about it, and so they're going to have to convince us that we want to fully let go of Mike and El and to root for Mike and Will.

This so called love triangle doesn't have equal stakes to the stancy/jancy one because we're dealing with an audience that has been completely left in the dark, now being bombarded. They have to try really hard to convince the audience to be on board with this, and also avoid homophobia in the process. They're going to have to make it very, very clear there are no more romantic feelings for Mike and El happening. Especially since we're ending the show with them in a sibling dynamic because of their relationships with Will. It would be gross to have this level of well maybe one day he could change his mind I mean he did that once before. Nope. It would be okay to have that sort of left unanswered with the stancy/jancy parallels bc we're not dealing with people being related to each other and swapping back and forth. That's why it needs to be clear in their situation.

And I do think that's why they did the whole I love you 9 times with Mike's monologue. Because it can't go up from there, there is nothing left for them to do after going all out like that, only to reveal Mike meant it deep down platonically? I mean what could they possibly do to backtrack? Have him give her another love confession where he says it 20x and adds no but fr this time?? No. They had to go all out like that to give those viewers what they wanted, the most they could possibly get and then say, sorry it's not happening. It essentially made it impossible to hope for it bc there's nothing left to hope for.

When it comes to byler and like these major moments that are bound to occur between them, I am genuinely most looking forward to them hugging again for the first time since the end of s3. That to me is going to be even more exciting than a kiss honestly (not saying I don't want a kiss but you know what I mean). And it's bc from a hug alone, I think we'll be able to tell that what's going on between them isn't platonic and that will in turn add so many layers to past seasons. I think it's also likely we'll get an almost kiss or two before the inevitable, and that would then make the slow-burn stretching until the end worth it, to me at least? Because just throwing them together never works when the formula has always been to hold off.

And that's also why the show has to end now. We can't have 6,8, 10 seasons of slow-burn, it would be exhausting. 5 seasons is the perfect amount. And having all of that angst and tension and heartache lead to a happy ending is going to make all of those moments in between that fans fought over for being critical of, sort of just dwindle to epic angst that was necessary to appreciate the happy ending.

[parkitaco]

I'd love some 55 byler with a bit of 29 in it. Sending sunny days and hot chocolat your way.

It’s quiet in Will’s room today, and Mike can’t find it in himself to mind. He’s laying on Will’s bed, staring up at the ceiling in a vaguely dream-like state, relaxed and calm as Will sketches beside him, one hand hooked loosely around Mike’s. They’ve been having lots of nice days like this, lately, quiet and calm and safe, and Mike never thought he’d appreciate doing nothing as much as he does when it’s with Will.

Absently, Mike twists around on the mattress, head resting against Will’s thigh as he flips their hands around, spreading Will’s fingers out between his own and trailing his thumb back and forth against the palm of Will’s hand. Will glances at him over the top of his sketchbook, eyebrow raised, and Mike sends him a small grin as he presses a kiss right to the center of his palm.

“What are you doing?” Will laughs, flexing his fingers as Mike goes back to tracing his fingertips over his hand. 

“M’ reading your palm,” Mike murmurs, Will’s hand warm in his own. “That’s a thing, right?”

Will sets his sketchbook aside, watching carefully as Mike trails his pointer finger over the longest line on his hand. “Yeah, but I’m almost positive that’s not how you’re supposed to do it,” he says, amused, and Mike shoots him a fake glare, dropping his hand.

“Fine,” he sniffs, pretending to turn his head away, and Will laughs lightly, “I’ll stop.”

"Okay, I’m sorry,” Will laughs, grabbing Mike’s wrist and bringing his hand up to the light. “Here, it’s like this," he murmurs, the tip of his pinky brushing over the lines of Mike's hand as he cups Mike's wrist gently. “There’s, like, different lines that mean different things-”

He’s cut off as Mike squeaks, clenching his fingers around Will's pinky to stop the movement. "That tickles," he says, and immediately regrets it when an evil glint appears in Will's eye. 

“Oh, does it,” he starts, and Mike immediately rolls off of him, snatching his hands away and curling into a ball on the mattress, which does approximately nothing to save him when Will pounces on him, spidering his fingers under Mike’s shirt and brushing his fingers right over the sensitive part of Mike’s ribcage.

“Will!” Mike shrieks, laughing a little despite himself as he unfurls, Will climbing on top of him and straddling him as he leans over to press a flurry of light, tickling kisses to Mike’s neck. 

“Mike,” Will replies evenly, fingers still jabbing into Mike’s sides as he continues kissing Mike’s neck, rapid-fire and unrelenting, and Mike’s natural instinct is to tell him to stop but when he thinks about it, this is sort of nice, Will’s lips against his skin and his hands on his ribcage.

“You’re a menace,” he huffs instead, and Will sits back on his heels, grinning proudly down at him as his fingers still at Mike’s sides.

“You love me.”

Mike rolls his eyes. “They’re not mutually exclusive. And I thought we were reading palms?”

“Yes, because that’s definitely something I know how to do,” Will says, eyebrow raised, but even so he grabs Mike’s hand again and brings it up to his face, examining the lines on his palm before nodding approvingly and pressing a firm kiss to the center of his hand. “You win,” he says, deadpan, and Mike squints at him.

“I win?” he questions, as Will continues pressing kisses to his fingertips.

“Yeah. Your lines are all- good,” Will says, screwing his face up in an attempt to seem knowledgeable and ending up looking sort of lost, if very sweet and adorable at the same time, “You win.”

Mike laughs, light and breezy, and Will gently folds his fingers over to kiss his knuckles. “What do I win?”

Will purses his lips, considering. “My undying love and affection?” he offers, as Mike’s free hand drifts to rest against his waist, and he kisses Mike’s hand again.

Mike grins. “Sure, Byers. Sounds like a deal.”

[will80sbyers]

I don't know if you were really asking on your last post but I'm among the people that don't believe in queer Mike in canon (but still ship byler and read fics and enjoy headcanons and etc but can't really post in the tag cause it is not very welcoming of us to say the least). I think seeing the airport scene as a romantic one is only one of the possible interpretations of this scene and of course if byler ends up being canon, it would be the most convincing one (still not the only one though). As I sadly don't think byler will be endgame (basically to me there are more in script and off script reasons to think they won't than to think they will), I interpret the airport scene as yet another sign that Mike is written as a brave, deeply caring, somehow fighting normativity guy, who is just often socially awkward as a result. In other words, I think Mike behaved this way because they haven't seen and spoken to each other in a while, and Mike only got updates through El (about the painting among other things). And because his relationship with Will IS different than his relationship with the other members of the party, but that doesn't make it romantic in nature, Will is his best friend and has a more obviously sensitive temper than Dustin or Lucas. Again, it's of course left to interpretation, but everything is. And whether or not we believe in byler endgame, our interpretation will necessarily somehow reflect it

I respect your opinion, but I think this choice doesn't make any sense as a narrative for Mike unless it's for starting a romantic plot line between them, it's just making him look like an asshole to the public because they didn't even catch the fact that Mike actually called Will, they automatically thought he was calling El even if it's risky for El to use the phone because of the government possibly listening... and like maybe if it was only that scene where he's acting awkward BEFORE they resolve their miscommunication issues I could agree with you... but the fact is that it is not only that scene, Mike keeps acting awkward after they have already talked about them not communicating as much in the past months and they have resolved that in theory...

I think this is a clear sign that Mike must have feelings for Will otherwise the writing and the framing and the direction they gave Finn on how to act doesn't make ANY sense... this scene would be absurd if Mike wasn't feeling love for the words Will is saying about him

the '' Will is different only because they are best friends exactly like the others, but he has a more sensitive temper'' doesn't hold up for me because in season 1 Mike had that conversation with Dustin where he told him he thought of ALL of them in the same exact way, but we know Will has always been different, and their relationship is more intimate than just being best friends... one of them is in love with the other... like, they could never be really ok if Will got rejected, that would keep hurting Will for a long time if not forever and the end of the show would be depressing and unrealistic if Will just ''got over Mike'' randomly after they showed just how deeply he loves him... and Mike this season he expressed out loud that he felt different and like Hawkins was not the same without Will specifically, he didn't even mention him missing his own girlfriend...? I believe this is because Mike has always had romantic feelings towards Will even if he didn't realize it, it's that type of loving without knowing where he always felt like this for Will, but he never considered what those feelings were until recently

plus we have the scene at the end of season 3 where Mike looks back at the byers home to confirm there is something more to the story of Mike and Will from Mike's side <3

I think you will be pleasantly surprised by Mike loving Will back too! 💕

[most-canon-non-canon-ship-poll]

literally hoping they break up in the last season

Why Mileven is shit - a submission-based essay, part 2/3

Mileven - a currently canon het ship from the Stranger Things fandom between Michael (Mike) Wheeler and Jane (Eleven) Ives/Hopper/Byers/IDK

they NEED to breakup (AGAIN) in the final season let's start w their character arcs rn. el was born in a lab and was raised VERY strict to be a weapon and shit. she escapes and now her whole arc is finding herself and being who she is separate to what people tell her she is. mike comes from a lowkey conservative family with parents who are married only to fit into the normal, not because they love each other. his arc, similar to his sisters' struggle in earlier seasons, is to not fall into conformity just because you feel like you should. both of these stories line up with the main moral of the show: be who you are even if it isn't "normal" ot whatever now how does mileven go against this? mike, and a bunch of ppl around el, in the earlier seasons keeps telling el what she should do/be. even in the later seasons we see mike refering to el as a "superhero" (which she doesn't like). neither of them feel free to be themselves around the other (shown by el lying to mike and mike being WAY out of character around el, etc). mike literally can't tell el he loves her while not under pressure. mileven sometimes parallels mike's parents' and sta.cy (a failed conformity relationship) and other bad relationships ANYWAYS it also reallyyyy pains will byers (who's been canonically in love with mike for like years, and mike's best friend) to see this. also, milevens keep harassing will/mike shippers on anon even months after the last season. like they have a hate discord server just for it. anyways i love mike and el but ohhh my god there is still SO much i haven't mentioned about how bad they are together (and how bad shippers often are, sometimes being violently homophobic and calling bylers delusional and shit)

OOOH IT FUCKING SUCKS THEY ARE SOOOOOO BAD FOR EACH OTHER JESUS THEY DON'T COMMUNICATE LIKE EVER THEY ARE BOTH CLEARLY IN IT BECAUSE OF THE EXPECTATION OF A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN'T CONFIDE IN EACH OTHER THEY DON'T SHARE ANY INTERESTS THEY'RE HAVING CONFLICT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THANK *GOD* I AM UTTERLY CONVINCED THEY ARE HEADING FOR A CANONICAL PERMANENT BREAKUP. NOT TO MENTION THEY ARE BOTH GAY AS HELL TO ME. YOU SEEN THAT "THIS SHIP IS SO CANON AND IT'S A LESBIAN AND A GAY MAN" TWEET? YEAH. FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING SHIP NOT TO MENTION THE SHIPPERS ARE FREQUENTLY OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC. UGHHHHHHH KILLING BITING (this is my fave btw)

they have no chemistry or buildup unlike the other st couples. they kissed season 1 right after she asked if he would be her brother. hes very obviously compensating for something. i think i gagged when they made out in season 3. speaking of. thats all they do. make out. they dont really have meaningful conversations. this also comes from the fact that when mike met her she was fresh out the lab that abused her for like 11 years. she was not socially ready to understand the bounds of a platonic relationship let alone a romantic one. anyway mileven break up s5 will happen i believe it. if nothing else. cross ur fingers gamers

the sheer homophobia and general toxicity that the fans of this ship create is absolutely insane when their perfect (read: mischaracterized) straight (read: homosexually-coded) couple is judged for having toxic or incompatible elements is insane. the only good romantic aspect between these two characters is in a cringefail "wow this really doesn't work at all" i-want-to-put-this-dynamic-under-a-microscope-and-study-it-because-it's-an-absolute-trainwreck" kind of way. el has been abused and cut off from society her whole life and at 12 years old she immediately gets together with this guy at whose earth shattered after his best friend went missing who then has surviors guilt after she almost does which is misconstrued as romantic rather than unhealthy obsession and trauma. and so on and so forth.. there's just so much wrong they lie to each other So Fucking Much despite truthfulness being very important to them and they ignore their friends to make out (which is filmed in a way that is meant to feel uncomfortable btw lmao) and el doesn't understand mike's trauma from bullying and he doesn't understand how she doesn't want to be built up into being a superhero etc etc. and it's just so increasingly bad I want to rub my temples just thinking about them. they're just so bad for each other and their relationship has done nothing but make them worse in general but for some reason their ship is viewed as fluffy or cute or whatever the hell. anyway mike is so heavily coded to be fucking gay and in love with his best friend (and el can be interpreted to be lesbian coded) and I just need to get them out of there amen

I'm gonna make a list bc the reasons are many: 1) their first casual interaction they get together but in the same conversation she asks him if she can be like a sister to him 2) all their "cute moments" are them making out in the 3rd season with still absolutely no chemistry 3) their only actual cute scene is them dancing at the snowball yet in the same scene they portray the same way two couples that are not romantic 4) mike becomes a terrible person when he's with eleven 5) eleven literally GOT OUT OF A LAB SHE WAS RAISED IN and this is the first guy she dated 6) she can't even say he's a good kisser 7) mike can't tell her that he loves her (bc he doesn't) and the only time he does he makes this whole ugly ass speech up about how she's his "superhero" even though she doesn't want to be seen only for her superpowers 8) in said speech, while listing the things that he loves about her, he only names her superpowers + he lies multiple times 9) EVEN AFTER SAID SPEECH she is still mad at him and won't talk to him (probably bc she saw right through his bs) 10) she spent a whole 6 months lying to him about all of her life 11) mike is clearly gay and is meant to be with his childhood best friend will 12) mike idolizes her and doesn't see her as an actual person 13) eleven needs to be her own person (ffs she just got out of a lab) 14) the ship sucks and even the authors and actors say so

they have NO chemistry. they kissed after one week of knowing each other when they were 12 and eleven didn't even know what a romantic relationship was at the time, given the fact that right before mike kisses her she says "will you be like my brother?". they spent the entirety of season 2 apart with mike calling el on his walkie and el watching romantic movies on the tv for a year (then will is in trouble and mike says 'fuck it' and goes full protective boyfriend mode but this isn't about byler so i digress) and start dating soon after they meet again even though they haven't had a SINGLE conversation and are barely friends. season 3 comes along and the writers do their utmost best to show us how incompatible they are. their makeout scenes are uncomfortable, they break up at the beginning of the season and neither one of them seems particularly bothered that their first relationship is over. in fact, the happiest we see el in the entire series is during the time they're broken up, when she gets close to max (who she actually has chemistry with, by the way) and finally experiences freedom, being a teenage girl and etc since mike had been "keeping her all to himself" for like, a year. aside from that, he doesn't go after her at all after she dumps his ass (literally) but when he and will have a fight, he bikes across town in the rain just to apologize, that boy is GAY. finally, the theme of season 4 is lies and once again, mike and el spend the season apart (once again, mike spends the season with WILL) and right before they part ways, they have a big fight about mike being unable to so much as WRITE "love, mike" on his letters to el, let alone say it, and he bullshits his way through it and refuses to say the actual reason until vol. 2, when he apparently "confesses" that he's afraid he'll lose her if he says it (okay, amigo, you're gonna lose your girlfriend who was literally begging you to say 'i love you' not even a week ago, aham, totally valid excuse). conclusion: they don't know each other and they don't act like themselves when they're together. mike hides his nerdy nature, el feels like she has to be the amazing superhero he's always viewed her as or else he'll lose interest and it just feels like they're both grasping at straws because this relationship has been dragged on for too long that they don't know how to break up permanently. they are afraid of losing each other, but not romantically, as mike was el's first semblance of family after escaping the lab and mike feels like it's his duty to protect and care for el. also, mike is gay. in other words, FREE THEM.

[bookinit02]

HI HELLO GOOD EVENING

I'm dead tired bc I got barely any sleep last night + braindead because I've spent the past several hours binging through your Stranger Things Byler retelling and I'm a bit out of words, HOWEVER. It finally clicked in my head that you have a tumblr and I, also having a tumblr, can use said tumblr to throw my appreciation upon you in a more direct manner.

On that note... the retelling is AMAZING and I love it so very very much!!! (I've also been leaving a whole stream of comments on the fic itself, so a lot of my feelings have already been described in detail there XD). It makes me feel so very many emotions, both good AND bad, and for a fic to trigger THAT MUCH of an emotional reaction in me is really an achievement. It's so beautifully sad and tender and joyous and realistic, and all the more painful for it—and all the more beautiful IN that pain. I haven't actually been a big active part of the Stranger Things Fandom (TM) for several years, but I still often return to Byler fics, sort of like a comfort blanket in story form—and yours are some of the BEST (I think it was also you that wrote one of my favorite ever painting scene fix-its; I'll have to go back and re-read that as well!!)

I started reading season 4 last night (which is in part to blame for my lack of sleep) and finished up the rest of it today. I'm so extremely excited for season 5 and to see what you've done with it—I already started reading the script for episode one and it looks amazing (god, I bet that Mike having a panic attack/Vecna episode hurts WAY more in prose)!!! I can't decide between reading all the script first, then reading the fic; or reading the script episodes and then reading the according fic chapters; or just barreling on ahead in the fic and coming back to the script if it strikes my fancy later (which is, if I'm being honest, the most likely outcome). All will have to wait til tomorrow, however, as I have dinner and a warm bed to get to. All the love to you and your fic!!

(Love how I said "I'm so braindead I've run out of words" and then proceeded to give evidence to the EXACT OPPOSITE claim. I'm really a bit like Mike lmao, even if I'm struggling to actually describe my specific emotions or feelings about something, I can run my mouth about any old thing for ages XD)

hi hello good morning!!! i have been watching ur comments come in with so much joy and happiness—hopefully i get time to respond to all of them within the next few days! i hope that you have gotten so much rest and that you are all refreshed for the next day🫂💗

thank you so much for all your kind words, in this ask and otherwise! the rewrite is really a labor of love that has been sustaining me for over a year now, and it is always so impressive and awe-worthy to me when new people discover it and start from the very beginning. that is SO much to read!! several novels worth!

as for the script, read it in whatever order you would like! my recommended order was originally to read the script first, then the fic chapters—but i know that some people want to experience the plot twists and developments as they happen, so really any way you decide to read it is completely fine! the byler scenes are all the same (with a bit extra in the fic), it’s really just the other characters and plot lines that are expanded.

thank you for “running your mouth,” as you’ve called it—but i prefer to think that we’re just chatting🥳 i really love interacting with people through both comments and asks, so feel free to do both (and to talk as long as you’d like)! i am super grateful and honored that you’ve chosen to read my story, and i hope that you enjoy what i have so far of season 5!!💗🫂

[lucystark12]

what am i doing to cope with the byler drought? reading richard siken and pointing out all of the byler coded things, of course!

this is mike in reference to fighting with will- hence “it isn’t over.” i’d imagine this being a thought of his after they fight next season about halfway in between still being mad at will and realizing why he cares that will lied about the painting.

“green yellow, green blue” could this be more on the nose? hello? this is how their both always going to be tired together, and the line “it’s green. it’s still green” is the poetry equivalent of the classic wattpad “it’s you. it’s always been you.”

i’m sure if you are a literature queen who was on byler tiktok in 2022 you’d recognize this passage (aka the reason i bought this book in the first place). this might be the most “you’re the heart” scene coded thing i’ve ever seen. this could be interpreted from both of their perspectives-

mike: he’s listening to will confess his love to him under the pretense of it being el’s feelings. “he won’t tell you that he loves you, but he loves you.” it’s up to interpretation whether or not this confession from will elicited any kind of feeling from mike, but if it did, that next line about him feeling like he did something terrible is SO spot on. in the next line, it talks about choking down the feeling. SO mike coded. hello? the last line is mike kinda having an “oh” moment.

will: mike obviously won’t tell will that he loves him. then we have will giving this entire monologue about feeling like a mistake, aka having done something horrible like siken describes. will is quite literally trying not to tell mike he loves him by pretending to be speaking from el’s point of view.

also, the line “like a prayer for which no words exist” churchgate who?

in this one i see a bit of will in the upside down. the first bit of it draws comparison to the fantastical nature of their d&d campaigns, with the line about the princess “just getting to be a princess” reminiscent of el being able to love mike freely without having to worry about the scrutiny from the people around them. will is having to cope with the weight of his feeling towards mike while mike gets to be the hero- he gets to “have it all”- love and be loved freely.

below that is will in california, where he’s essentially having a tolerate it by taylor swift moment. we had this heartfelt goodbye, and now i haven’t heard from you for months? what happened? do you even care about me?

now, “inside your head, you hear a phone ringing, and when you open your eyes, only a clearing with a deer in it. hello deer.” obviously mike spent the better part of the time between season 3 and 4 trying to reach will via phone but wasn’t able to, likely because of vecna messing with time or even the phones themselves. mike in his head thinks he’s hearing a phone ring, aka will, but it turns out to just be “a deer” which i am going to take very out of context and use to say “a dear” aka a letter from el. “hello dear”- which serves to say- okay, you’re hear, cool, but you aren’t what i asked for.

below that is will and vecna presumably in season four as vecna is construing every memory will has with mike and will is forced to remind himself of how mike truly is and make a mock up of him to save himself from vecna.

this one literally has a margin note from the first time i read it in 2023 when i wasn’t even in a stranger things phase. this one is obviously mike arriving in california and seeing will- he’s frightened, he’s realizing “wait, maybe this is real now.” we even get will’s drawings mentioned.

“this doesn’t look that much different from home” is because will is there, and will is his home. “the black sky and all those lights” presumably references a movie set which i am interpreting as somewhere were everything is formulaic. mike having to use “the power of love” to save el in a literal formulaic movie trope, even though he DOESNT LOVE HER. this isn’t home, this isn’t where he can be himself with will, this is where society expects him to conform and put on an act.

“where we pulled the bodies out of the lake and dressed them in warm clothes again” feels very much like reviving a deceased person. and where was will’s body discovered? A LAKE. this is a young mike having a dream of finding will safe and happy and coping with will’s presumed death. “how it was late” it was nighttime.

“it’s not like a tree where the roots have to end somewhere” reads to me a bit like a person’s life, mike interpreting this “dream” of his where will comes home safely as a continuation to something. where there doesn’t have to be an end to his and will’s story.

“policeman’s radio” hopper mentioned

the bottom of that reads to me as will and mike during season for OR after their happy ending, with this whole poem being mike recounting his grief over losing will in a love confession type monologue.

anyways!! that was really fun