#like i heard it being in ace and aroace circles

[cosmicredcadet]

Y'all realize garlic bread started as an asexual symbol first right? The whole start of it was in reference to "garlic bread is better than sex" idk where the idea came about that it started as an aromantic symbol with "bad garlic breath saving you from kissing"???

Not saying garlic bread can't be a shared symbol but it's super weird to hear ppl claiming it was an aro only symbol and completely ignoring the roots it has as a symbol in the ace community??

[aego-weaver]

Asexual characters getting laid

So, the recent discussion around a certain demon has brought a certain subject to the forefront of my circles. So, in this essay, let's talk about asexual characters getting laid, usually in fanfiction, but my advice applies to original work as well.

Glossary

As I discuss this, I will be using the relevant terms. For your convenience, I will define them here. Those in the community, you can skip this section.

Asexual: Often shortened to Ace, an asexual is a person who experiences little to no sexual attraction.

Gray Ace: Notice how I said "little to no" in the previous definition? gray Aces are why. Still falling under the field of asexuality, gray aces experience sexual attraction only on rare occasions or in specific situations.

Demisexual: A person who only experiences sexual attraction after a close emotional (not necessarily romantic) connection exists. It is a form of gray ace.

Aromantic: Often shortened to Aro, an aromantic is a person who experiences little to no romantic attraction.

Alloromantic: Alloromantic is opposite of Aromantic, being a person who regularly experiences romantic attraction. For this essay, I will use the abbreviated form Allo for this meaning exclusively. In more general parlance, Allo can also be short for allosexual, the opposite of asexual.

Sex Repulsed: A person who is sex repulsed has a strong negative reaction to sexual situations. This can manifest as fear, disgust, anxiety, etc.

Sex Favorable: A person who is sex favorable has a positive reaction to sexual situations. This shouldn't be confused with being sex positive, which is about your opinion regarding sex in society and sits outside the scope of this essay.

Opening Principles

The main question is this: Is it okay to write a story in which an asexual character has a sexual encounter or long-term sexual relationship?

The answer, in my opinion, is yes, if you do it right.

The question you need to ask is why are they doing this? You should really ask that question for any character getting laid, but it's really important when you want an asexual character to do the dance.

Asexuals and their relationship to sex

Now, as I start this section, I feel the need to drop my credentials... I am a sex-favorable aroace with an axe to grind. That's it really.

As far as a stereotype exists for asexuals, it's a sex-repulsed aroace who is usually so extremely repulsed they just about faint at the sight of a bare breast or is so naive they wouldn't know what a dildo is.

Now, both of these people exist, I'm sure. But, they aren't the only options. You can have sex-neutral or favorable aces, you can have allo aces, you can have gray aces and demisexuals. Asexuals can like kinky stuff or keep it vanilla. The options are limitless.

Libido is different from attraction. I'm sure you've heard of people who just need it more or less often. Guess what? Asexuals can get aroused just like everyone else; we just have less of an outlet for it.

A good but honestly overused analogy is food: libido is getting hungry while attraction is thinking something looks delicious. Some of us aces (like myself) are just sitting in the kitchen, hungry as all hell, but nothing catches the eye. We still might eat something and enjoy it, but it's a different process.

The only unifying factor for asexuals is experiencing little to no sexual attraction. That's it!

Reasons your asexual character might want to get laid

I'm going to run through a bunch of reasons why an asexual person might find themselves getting laid. I'll go over story ideas they make me think of (which you are free to steal; please steal them, I beg you) and potential pitfalls you need to avoid.

Do note the phrase "want to" in the title of this section. I'm only covering story reasons that are at least mostly consensual.

These aren't in any particular order; I'm just writing them as I think of them.

Personal Gain

Perhaps they benefit in some fashion from the arrangement. For example:

An asexual prostitute is an easy example.

A con artist, using sex to influence their victims, but not feeling anything real towards them.

This one is a great choice for dark character exploration. It's also one of the few options that works well if the character is sex-repulsed; put the reader in the shoes of a sex-repulsed character who needs to have sex for some reason and you've got something I've never seen before and really want to see done well. Tread lightly though, that idea is very easy to get wrong.

For a loved one

This one's for the allo aces out there. An asexual character could have sex for their partner's sake. Just like you, for example, might see a movie you don't care about because your SO wants to see it.

That's a fine reason... with a major caveat: it shouldn't be a transactional thing. Nothing in relationships should be, but I'm calling it out. Your ace character doesn't owe their loved one sex, but if they want to make their love happy, it's an option.

That said, if you want the audience to hate the loved one, get as transactional as you want. You don't have to write healthy relationships, just be aware of what you are doing.

For pleasure and fun

If your asexual character isn't sex-repulsed, they could just... want sex for its own sake. The only caveat here is treating the issue with respect. The characters approach to sex is different from attraction, being more something they want rather than a need.

Exceptions

You could explore an ace character drifting into gray ace territory, struggling with new emotions... or even just a character who already identifies as gray asexual.

My main concern here is avoiding invalidating the character's identity: they are still asexual, just with some shades of gray.

A common refrain from those opposed to asexuality is "you just haven't found the right person yet". Two things about that:

Don't unwittingly write a story where those idiots are right.

If a person experiences no sexual attraction, and then finds themselves doing so for a specific person, usually one they are close to, we have a word for that. It's in the glossary, starting with a D.

One-offs

Rapid fire time. These are all reasons an asexual character might have sex on a short term basis. If you're writing a short story, that might be all you need.

Peer pressure to stop being a virgin. Not a fun reason, but I'm sure it happens.

Curiosity about sex.

Manipulation by their partner. Be careful with this one, it borders on non-con... unless that's what you're writing.

They are trying to have a baby.

Some weird magic thing in your setting.

Fuck, they could lose a bet if you feel like it.

Conclusion

Just because you're writing about people doing the horizontal hula doesn't mean the few ace characters we have need to be stripped of their identity just to be stripped of their clothes. Keeping that identity in mind can help open new story paths, paths that are currently unexplored.

Side note: if you can find any well written smut featuring an asexual lead, please tell me about it. I want to read it.

[variousqueerthings]

Coming back to this laaaate, but @brilliantfantasticgeronimo hope it's okay I pull this onto a post, because it's easier for me to focus on than in replies!

this idea that the Doctor lands someplace and ruins everyone's day by being so Badass and Awestriking isn't really a Thing in Nu!Who "is also contrasted with the theme of the doctor inspiring *others* to do things (v Explicit theme in s1 but it's present in all those other CoDs you mention)... re:2, i think the one exception would be 7 but i think with 7 the chess-god-manipulator thing works bc we see the consequences of it thru ace. we also see it w/ amy and river but (cont) but i feel we never quite grapple w/ it emotionally (they adore the doctor anyway in the end) (except for a handful legit, hard-hitting eps like the girl who waited or town called mercy). .. and altho in both classic who and rtd who the companions function as a very important role *in the text*, u can still find fandom completely ignoring that and treating doc's 1-10 as power fantasies as well. so it's smth always there but that moffat rlly made literal also i've really liked your posts on asexuality on dw and idk if you've written this but just in case, i think it's also relevant to the very specific way some het guys are so protective of the doc's asexuality/aromancy(+the show's): "asexuality" as it functions in dw is celebrated by those guys ( i suspect) bc it gives the fantasy power over the "womanly wiles" - it's a proof of how the doc is so "enlightened" and "above" the temptress or seduction trope. (cont) (csdkjf sorry for going ott on replies rip) and it's also why i think in moffat's who the doc's sexuality is kind of tied to the idea of it like... """humbling"" or ""humanizing"" the character (as problematic as those ideas are,,, i think there's a basis to deduct that they come from before in canon)

OKAY SOOOO HI!

I just watched The God Complex right after The Girl Woman Who Waited so I'm riding that high of Consequences! Emotional Follow-through! Mmmm good plots!

I have not actually seen 7 yet outside of cute clips with Ace and ofc when he died due to the American healthcare system + gang warfare if I'm remembering correctly? and became our beautiful bouncing boy Eight, so iiiinteresting that this is a Thing, I didn't know that 👀👀👀👀👀

again, God Complex + Girl Who Waited feel like the most this era has explored Eleven's kinda... vibes around in terms of being some big Machinator who ruins peoples lives by dragging them into his shit, because he cannot Not: "I stole your childhood and now I’ve led you by your hand to your death. But the worst thing is I knew. I knew this would happen, this is what always happens. Forget your faith in me. I took you with me because I was vain. Because I wanted to be adored. Look at you. You’re glorious, Pond, the girl who waited for me. I’m not a hero. I really am just a mad man in a box. And it’s time we saw each other as we really are." Mmmm good stuff

we'll see how the next episodes do/season 7, but I've heard good things about Town Called Mercy which is an episode that I was not taking in at allll last time, because I was kind of... annoyed... by then.... and not really taking in good stuff (unlike this time)

ASEXUALITY ON DW IS LIKE! LOOK I'M WRITING OUT A SCRIPT FOR A YOUTUBE VIDEO BECAUSE IT'S SO FASCINATING RIGHT??? BOTH IN TERMS OF HOW THE CHARACTER EMBODIES AN AROACE IDENTITY AS ALIEN AND AS OTHERED WITHIN THEIR OWN SOCIETY AND AS A PERSON WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE THESE THINGS --- AND IN HOW FANDOM THINKS ABOUT THE WORD "ASEXUALITY"

(will I ever actually put together a youtube video, who knows, but I could, I edit professionally for parts of my job, and I have the Receipts!) (but the energy of it all youknow)

I am so pleased you spelled out the "womanly wiles" trope, because yes, I hadn't quite seen that, but had been circling around like... the Enlightened Asexual (or the Celibate Monk as I believe M*ffat once called it with reference to Sherlock) (and then someone like Irene Adler is the epitome of that Temptress in his version of the story...)

and what you're saying about "humbling" and "humanising" is so fascinating, because ofc to a bunch of us aces and aros and aroaces the part where the Doctor struggles to form normative relationships is one of the the most humanising factors, and ofc M*ffat especially likes the "Godlike" Doctor quite a bit but it comes back to these ideas of allosexuality and alloromanticism

but then also rejects a lot of those ideas, from memory, for being too simplistic after all, because people struggle to write the Doctor as simply alloromantic and allosexual (I've heard because the Doctor is alien, because the Doctor is more compelling when lonely, because the narrative couldn't sustain it, etcetcetc, but in the end it all comes back to "the Doctor as Character cannot get into these relationships for... reasons...." and that becomes compelling character)

(also Gomez!Master is like "we're so beyond this, we're the best thing ever, we're nemeses, we're besties, my homeboy, my rotten soldier, my silly rabbit," etcetcetc... paraphrased. but that's in M*ffat era)

(the more the show flirts with allosexuality and alloromanticism the more nuanced the Doctor becomes to me as an aroace character! because no longer is it an Enlightened Mightier Than Thou Cannot Be Touched Celibacy type Concept, it's someone who's being affected by deep relationships and very often unable to equate them using simple terms!!!! arghhh it's sooooo!!!! SOOOOOO!!!!!!!)

[wolfjackle]

Hi, I am writing a book about the history of asexuality through the lens of my and others personal experiences of being asexual and I saw your post about the time you spent on AVEN with regard to the terms for the community. I wondered if you would be willing to talk to me about your experience of being in the community and if you had an suggestions for historical moments or resources?

Thanks for your time!

I'm absolutely happy to talk to you, but I don't know how much help I'll be. I discovered Asexuality around 11 or 12 years ago (early 2010s) and have been in and out of online ace spaces since.

I didn't have any doubt about my identity. It went from reading the word in a fanfic and going "huh, that's a thing?" to "Oh, that's me" within a week. Literally, within hours of actively looking up the term, I accepted it for myself. It didn't distress me, it didn't bother me. It did make the rest of the world make a lot more sense, though.

IRL, I'm half out. As in most of my close friends know, but for my family, I've never bothered to use the word "asexual" or "aromantic". I just tell them I don't plan on dating/getting married and now that I'm in my 30s, they rather believe me.

I managed to miss the worst of the Discourse™ by simply not being on tumblr at the time. I was in school (18 credit semesters + part time work), then moving and starting a new career. I also dropped off online social spaces for a while with the death of forums. By the time I came back and got comfortable, the worst of the discourse had passed.

Now, though, I'm not really in ace circles very much. I think it's because I just can't get into how they're organized. Having to rely on reddit (which I stopped using in July due to API changes) or Tumblr is...very slap-dash. I prefer the organization of forums. Where you have one specific area for memes, one for serious discussion, one for jokes, one for people new to the idea and settling in, etc. When it's all mixed together, I find I have to sift through a lot of what I'm not in the mood for to find the stuff I want to engage with.

I feel like I probably know more than what I think I do. I'm always surprised when I come across aces who don't realize certain things. The amount of tags and comments on my addition to the allosexual post prove that. So many people hadn't heard the ace definition of "self contained sexuality" and found it resonated with them. I'm glad I could teach them that bit of history as the definition is the one I relate most to as well.

I've seen people who think that only the ace of spades is a valid ace symbol when really it was the entire suite. Ace of hearts = alloromantic ace, Ace of spades = aroace, ace of diamonds = demiace, ace of clubs = grayace.

Most people know about the black ring, at least.

Anyway, if you think I can be of help, please reach out! I'll answer what questions I can and tell my (admittedly rather boring) story.

[landscaping-your-mind]

In regards to the redemption, I absolutely agree. The redemption isn't a circle like thoschei usually is, it's a line. Once you've redeemed the Master, they stop being the Master, and then the cycle ends. Besides, why can't they just be cartoonishly evil? Cartoonishly evil, bit suave, third act breakdown sometimes. You can shake stuff up in that formula, but breaking it completely... :/

I agree with you with Moffat. Female Master is a cool idea, and I mean, he has been known to add the occasionally Thoschei jokes, hello the Master's beard. I don't think he's homophobic per se, I think the action kinda is.

Fun fact, haven't finished season 12. One day I just... stopped watching. What the Moffat era does to you, honestly. To be fair, Simm!Master isn't exactly known for his fond feelings towards the Doctor. Tensimm are a disaster, we've all heard it. But still, having Missy be very romantic and Simm not is... yeah.

I'm kind of ambivilant towards bringing the Master back or not. I think if RTD does it, it will probably something I personally enjoy, but also I agree that the Master probably needs a bit of a break. To be honest, most of my Doctor Who stuff recently has been 7/8/9/10 EU, I am so divorced from what's happening in actual Doctor Who. I do know there's not enough selfcest though.

I will say though that the worry with me is that Thoschei is very much, especially as treated in New Who, an unhealthy relationship. I feel like that makes it a bit harder to get it to be gay, yknow? Maybe I am just saying stuff, but I worry that there's the worry that by making Thoschei explicitly queer, they'll be promoting harmful stereotypes, leading to them deciding to make them not queer. But idk what goes on in BBC writer's rooms so.

RE: Ace bit. I'm not entirely sure what you mean? Uh but Doctor Who stop being aphobic challenge (I am still not over the nineriver audios why did they do that to my very implied to be aroace special guy)

Felt like talking more, hi. I don't think this is hot at all but like, kinda had a thought about Missy, then was like, well I can't just say I don't like the redemption, that is ice cold.

But then I thought about how Missy kisses the doctor. It's fun, genuinely I love it. "Death in Heaven" (i forgor the other's name) is one of the better moffat season finales, mostly because of Twissy.

And I know it was like, 2000s, 2010s, and before that it was 1960s-80s, but still, I kinda wish that the first explicitly romantic thoschei moment wasn't M/F. Like, they've been gay for every appearance before Missy, but then they're only allowed to be explicitly romantic when it's straight/looks straight. And then we haven't gotten another gay Thoschei since, which is just a shame.

So much is counting against gay Thoschei being explicit. "Can't have the Doctor be gay" turns into "can't portray this unhealthy a queer relationship." But it's still homophobia. Not as big a deal, sure, but it's homophobic to let straight Thoschei get to be romantic and get to be fucked up, but not let queer Thoschei do the same.

I don't think we're going to get queer explicitly romantic Thoschei, at least in the show, any time soon. There's too many hoops to jump through — first it's gay, second it's toxic. But I really hope there is.

God, I wish we got the Fiveainley book, this would've fixed everything, they deserve to be divorced.

Don't worry, criticising the "redemption" arc in s10 will never be too hot or cold for me, though I guess for me it's less about morals and personal development than about poetics... Like, what exactly do you do with a "redeemed" Master? Are they now to be tag-alongs? Jack or River-alikes, except more long term because of recasting potential? Let's be real, the most honest thing to do would be killing them off, in which Moffat was true to what the story demanded if in nothing else!

But yeah, the twissy kiss is one of those things that work great on their own until you start contextualising them. I'm not as cynical as to think Moffat first decided he'll do the first thoschei kiss and then cast a woman for the Master, but yeah, it still feels like the relationship was made explicitly romantic only once it was hetero looking. Piled up with the judging by Sherlock actual belief by Stevie that you can just be "above" sex? Then why go for an explicitly sexual gesture (talking about having Missy make 12 grab her boob #subltety)? Thanks, this asexual does not agree. Like, that press article saying that this was the "introduction" of romance into the relationship. The fandom can laugh all we like, but for a good deal of the audience this was the case. Not helped by making the case of Saxon in s10 being purely antagonistic towards 12.

Would it have violated either actor's contract sooo much if John Simm got to smooch Peter Capaldi too? It's not like the twissy kiss made much narrative sense in the first place, just have 12 grab Saxon's arm as he's about to leave in TDF and do a looong, spinning camera and all, French kiss shot, before the latter pushes himself away in fake disgust or sth!

Sorry, drifting off into my own "that salt and pepper goatee deserves a gay kiss" dreamland.

As to the potential for a same sex looking thoschei kiss in forseeable future... Well, for one, I am in a definitely hot thoschei take group saying the Master does need a break in general, it just really doesn't make much sense to bring them back until it's established or forgotten how the Doctor feels about the whole ttc thing and Gallifrey in general, so there's that... That is, unless RTD, or whoever takes over from him, will bring back the character in a way that doesn't revolve around the personal relationship, it's not like the world lacks for power crazed people right now, arguably more deserving of parodying as a maniac from space than Tony Blair ever did... But even then, I think a cool down on the Doctor's part is needed for their next interaction to not come off as either too detatched from latest developments or too antagonistic to focus on political parodies. So there's that.

But I think the 15/Rouge kiss is a good sign?... Apparently the mouse did give moneys for that, so, cultural winds granting, they'll go along with, if not physically, then at least verbally romantic thoschei?

Just, IDK, show how progressive and conservative at the same time you are, big company, and show the tragic results of an unthoughtthrough divorce or sth!

And of course, a woman can always dream of explicitly attracted to men Fourteen meeting the salt and pepper goatee. For charity of course.

[angryaromantics]

I will literally never understand the automatic lumping of aro and ace people, when those two labels are being used as separate identities. I think it's because people see the lack of something, and figure they're similar enough. But the way most alloaros interact with the world compared to their alloroace/romantic ace counterparts is too distinct to usefully compare past a certain point.

As a matter of fact, I don't think there's a label I could identify with less. As an alloaro, sex IS one of the fundamental ways I approach the world, and romance often makes me uncomfortable. If I relate to anyone on a fundamental level, it's polyamorous people!!!!

Like, we are shaking hands 🤝 over Doing Romance Incorrectly according to societal norms. We are fundamentally viewing romance differently than the norm. We are often fast and loose with dating and labels and the lines we blur between different relationship statuses. This isn't even touching on the way we're often both seen as predatory if we take just the tiniest step outside of our labeled circles.

I understand fully that other people's labels are More Complicated then this. Sometimes I relate greatly to people solely using the asexual label, or the aroace label, or labels I'm sure I haven't even heard of. But the way it's almost Expected that we group ourselves together like this has never felt relevant to my lived experiences.

[dreamswap-crackhead-council]

Maybe y’all should learn how to block people instead of airing your drama in fandom tags. Being called a pedophile is a very serious accusation, and you have every right to be upset, but going “fuck you” to an entire fandom because of some drama from mods of a past blog is ridiculous.

Can't wait until you've realized I've already blocked all of those people and they're still harassing me on my personal blog and this blog, alongside the ds defunct council when it ran. Hope you have eyes to know that that message I got was anonymous too.

In fact, here's the blocklist I had set up before this little weasley cunt decided to show up in MY blog, barge into MY space, and call ME a pedo.

note: majority of these people in the old image have had their name cleared for the most part? so i changed the image. Pls kindly do not harass the people in the old dni, just like King Fox/Foxxism - do not harass him! DO NOT HARASS HIM!

Clearly they're still getting support somewhere, and whether that's from Kai and Frey, or the IBVS gang, or some random fuckwads with an iq of a sponge and the usefulness of dirty soap, or they're doing it cause they think they can get away with it in this fandom, clearly whatever I've done so far (which was: generally keep it in this circle) has not deterred them from harassing me, so I guess I gotta reach for bigger and bigger guns.

You know what's also serious? King Fox going around into people's DMs and whispering to them about all the shit I supposedly did, and not allowing me to tell my side of the story. But the second I exclaim what happened in a public space, apparently I'm the bad guy. By speaking out about the abuse I'm going through, I'm "causing too much of a ruckus".

Imagine telling that to the victims of Glitchtale's creators, who've undoubtedly have experienced that already. Imagine having the GALL on telling that to the people who were sexually harassed and raped by others in the #MeToo movement.

Imagine telling this to any victim, as if this fandom is a religious place and I need to keep hush-hush about the abuse the pastors and popes put me through.

You know what that sounds like to me? That sounds like victim blaming. Oh, don't hold the people harassing me to their actions, it's my fault apparently for not liking that. Oh, it's my fault apparently for being sensitive about sweammare or jmv in the past, even if the shit in that hit a little close to home. How dare I tell a snot-nosed kid to stop fucking being a bitch to me, I must be an absolute fucking predator aren't I? /sarcasm

It's amazing too. Hey Mod Smoke, remember when we used to date before you realized you were aroace, and Frey and their ex-datemate kept claiming to others that I must be abusing you because you're ace and I'm dating you? Oh, but if I mention that, I must be rocking the boat, as if those accusations weren't still standing to this day for some people who heard that from them, because bitches would rather sweep that shit under the rug or "well acktually 🤓" explaining it away rather then apologize for their fucking shenanigans and tell others they were wrong, even if that have or had real-life consequences for me.

Or that time I was excluded from the fandom at the ripe age of 15 with a mom who "homeschooled" me so the only friends I even had were in that fandom, and then I was proceeded to be called acephobic, and now years later Frey claims to "not remember", even though I'm the one with the disorder that causes memory lapses, so what is their fucking excuse? Amazing how universally, bullies don't remember their bullying, and yet when the victims call them out, they're making a fuss and "they were just a child, they need to move on" as if bullying doesn't leave people scarred for many years to come, and that apparently because being a kid excuses every single action in the past. You know who's also still a kid (16-17 range) as far as I know? King Fox. You going to excuse his shitty and vile behavior because he's a kid still too?

I'm so glad I have better friends then the lot of you. Might I also note the closer circle of my friends are also ace, and if any of them thought I was an acephobic asshole, I'm sure they would have ditched me after four damn years?

This fandom is a fucking fermented vat for abuse to spring up, and it's fucking epidemic. This fandom has excused shitty actions from people who should have been held liable. Clearly you don't remember the shit Kai and Frey did to another 15 year old (not me, shockingly enough), who they literally called a reverse pedophile, or the bullshit they said about Joku when they hopped on that train of "joku bad us good". Huh, it's almost as if they seem to target the people who happen to also have autism, too!

I'm so tired of people who don't even bother apologizing.

Does any of this make you uncomfortable? Then good, because clearly that means I'm doing my job right in showing you the ugly heart of this shitty place outside the area I've carved from the flesh.

And just because I was an extra good boy for Christmas, I'll fucking treat myself to tagging this in the fandom again, cause clearly those in the back need to hear it better.

And just to smear it in your face: go fuck yourself, anon. You have no say or power here.

[swords-and-aros]

Hi - I'm really confused as to whether I'm aroace, or lesbian or some combination of that? Could I use lesbian if I want a QPR with a girl? I've never had crushes, but always felt 'attracted' to women. Idk if this is internalised lesbophobia or I'm just looking to be more represented and special and different. Any advice you can give would be great tbh. Xx

I’ll do my best to assist you in this journey, I went through a similar confusion

First things first, there are two things I want you to keep in mind:

One, you don’t need a label if you don’t want it, some people hold off on labels until they are sure of their identity, some people never use a label, for me, not having a label felt like my own personal circle of hell, but everyone’s relationship with identity is different

Two, it is ok to change your label, maybe you’ll identify as aroace now, but as a lesbian later, or a lesbian now and aroace later, or maybe you’ll identify as a different label, sexuality can be fluid, so can our understanding of our identity, how you label now, isn’t necessarily how you’ll identify later, choose a label for present you, not who you might be in the future

You don’t have to be aroace to be in or want a QPR, it’s more common with aros since we tend not to want romantic relationships, but you can be allo (not ace and/or aro) and be in a QPR

I’ve heard of people being platonically attracted to a certain gender, I don’t have a preference, so I can’t speak to this, if anyone reading this experiences platonic attraction to only one gender, if you could add in your experiences, that would be great, I don’t want to spread misinformation for something I have little knowledge on

It’s possible to be aroace and a lesbian, aroace is it’s own identity, but it is also an umbrella term, there are many aroace identities, I probably don’t even know them all, I’ll list what I can, other people, feel free to add on

Demi - needing a strong emotional bond before attraction occurs

Grey - very rarely experiencing attraction

Fray (also called Ignota) - experiencing attraction until attraction is reciprocated

Ace/Arovague - attraction is affected by neurodivergency

Cupio (also called Kalos) - doesn’t experience attraction, but still desires a romantic/sexual relationship

Lith (also called Akoi) - experiences attraction, but doesn’t want it reciprocated

Ace/Aroflux - attraction fluctuates

Ficto - attraction is affected by fictional characters

Quoi (also called WTF) - not being able to separate attraction, not wanting to separate/categorize attraction

With the exception of acevague, arovague, aceflux, and aroflux, sexual and romantic can be added to the end of any of these, for example, lithoromantic or WTFsexual

It is possible this is internalized lesbophobia, I can’t speak for that, I remember questioning if I had internalized lesbophobia as well, looking back I was experiencing internalized aphobia (there were many moments I came across the word asexual, only to immediately dismiss it as a possibility for me), internalized phobia of any kind is hard to dissect and understand, I wish I had a way to figure it out so that I could share it with you, but I don’t

You’re last line really hits close to home, it’s why I thought I was straight for so many years, I figured, since I wasn’t sure, I must have been straight and just wanted to be special (I’ve actually been told this), I don’t know you, but I can say with confidence that you aren’t looking to be special or different, you’re trying to figure out who you are and that’s ok

The journey to figure yourself out can be a long one, I still have moments of questioning myself, but that’s ok, you’re ok being whoever you are, I’m always going to be here, I promise, if you have more questions or simply want to talk, don’t hesitate, I wish you the best of luck in figuring yourself out, and remember that you aren’t alone

[ayy-spec]

Survey Maker’s Notes

I was surprised by quite a few of the results of this survey.

The first thing that really stuck out to me was the popularity of the quoi/WTF label. I’ve seen the flag and term plenty of times on tumblr, but I don’t think I’ve ever followed someone who identifies as quoiromantic or quoisexual, so I assumed it was not as common.

On the flip side, when I started getting involved in a-spec tumblr a few years back I saw the term “fray” very often, and assumed it was a common label. However, no one identified as frayromantic and only 1 person identified as fraysexual.

I was expecting to see a few demiromantic demisexuals, but I believe I only saw 2 people who identified with both labels. There were more people who identified as demiromantic asexual. On that note, more people identified as demiromantic (78) than demisexual (53) by a significant margin.

Nearly 70% of respondents were both aro-spec and ace-spec, and nearly 50% identify with the term aroace. I’m not sure what I was expecting, but this majority surprised me. 

Although the number is dwarfed by the amount of aroace-specs, I was surprised to see 39 alloaros. I tend to see way more asexual and ace-spec content on this website, so I tend to think of alloaces and aroaces as being much more common than alloaros, but that’s not necessarily true. 

I’ve done surveys like this in the past, and I always get people of writing in labels like “gay”, “hetero-demi”, “bi”, “panromantic”, etc. These all should go under “an allo/non-a-spec orientation”. I don’t know if there’s a way to word that option in the future that will make it more clear that that is its purpose. The main issue with this is that it makes it harder to accurately portray results; every time a person writes in their own answer under “other”, it’s usually worded or capitalized slightly differently than other write-ins saying the same thing. “Bisexual”, “bisexual”, “bi”, “Bi”, and “bi i guess” are all shown as different answers, so I have to go through all of the write-ins, tally them up, and add them to the “allo/non-a-spec orientation” number.

The 2 notable exceptions to this are “queer” and “Bambi lesbian”. 2 different people wrote in Bambi lesbian under 2 different questions. These results were counted as their own thing is because Bambi lesbian is a term often used by specifically asexual lesbians (which both of these people are), making it an a-spec identity. Terms like “bi” are not inherently a-spec.

“Queer” was given its own category because it is a purposefully vague word with a very broad definition. For some people being queer is part of their a-spec identity, and for others it is not. Nearly 50% of respondents identified with “queer” as a romantic label and nearly 80% identified with it as a sexuality label. In hindsight, I probably should have had the option for question 3 as well.

I forgot to add cupio as an option in questions 1 and 2. I thought that I had, because that’s a term I also have seen quite a bit. 

There was a typo for a day or 2 that listed terms like “aroflux” and “arovague” as options for question 2 instead of “aceflux” and “acevague”. This is because I copy pasted question 1 and just changed some parts to create question 2, and missed a few. This may have effected the results.

I think it’s important to consider that the available options likely influenced the results in some way. For example, for question 3 more people may have chosen “queerplatonic” if it had been an option, and less people may have chosen “alterous” if they had to write it in. I did consider adding queerplatonic as an option, bur I don’t identify with the term so I wasn’t sure if it would be appropriate to call it an a-spec label, or a label at all.

I was glad to see that there were people who did not choose labels that could have technically described them, because people do that all the time. I was worried that someone who is alloromantic and allosexual may click the “alloace” option even if they didn’t actually use that term for themself. This is the reason I did not give definitions for terms: I wanted people to indicate the words that they already use.

There were some specific respondents that I found interesting. The first that comes to mind is a person who said that they are graysexual, but specifically not in an a-spec way. I’ve never heard of the term being used outside of an asexual context, so now I want to look into that identity to learn more about it.

 I was surprised to see so many people identify as only queer, without also choosing the allo or a-spec modifier. It was a road bump data collection wise, but a lot of times the way people actually are is hard to put into boxes. 

There wasn’t a more appropriate place to put this, but under the blog rec question one person write “i do not know a damn thing my dude” which I thought was very funny.

There were quite a few answered along the lines of  “questioning”, “confused”, “???”, “allo-ish”, “it’s looking less and less allo by the day lmao”. The reason I didn’t include “questioning” as an answer is because the main purpose of me doing this survey was to figure out what flags to use in edits, and although there are questioning flags I don’t see many people actually using them. In hindsight, a should have added that option. I feel like questioning an a-spec identity can tend to take longer than allo identities because you’re trying to figure out if something isn’t there.

I thought it was interesting that there were at least 2 people who prefer the term “ace” and pretty much never use “asexual”. I tend to think of them as exactly the same, but they definitely have slightly different connotations. 

If anyone has any questions about the survey and its responses, feel free to reach out to me! I had a lot of fun compiling the data and learning more about this specific circle of the a-spec community. 💚💜

[shades-of-grayro]

i really hate how the aspec community is at each other's throats lately but i feel like it's such a recent thing. a year ago this just wasnt happening and then suddenly this person comes along and starts pitting alloaros against aces. before the blog quiet-times was around no one had any issues and then suddenly theres all these problems magically appearing out of thin air. i've identified as aroace for 3 years and been on tumblr for much longer (1/?)

and i NEVER saw any of these issues that they bring up constantly. i think that yeah some people are terrible but at this point it's a such a small portion of the community that it just doesn't matter but they make it seem like its everyone but they're just trying to get tumblr discourse points. it doesn't help that theyre so violent towards aces and constantly attack anyone who disagrees with them. (2/2)           

sorry for the rant but i just had to get this out and you were the only person i felt i could tell this to. and i didnt want to post about it on my blog because i'm genuinely afraid of them attacking me and sicking their deranged followers on me            

I can definitely relate with not wanting to directly confront that particular user. To be fair, I don’t think they genuinely hate aces, but they do seem to see everything as black-and-white, and when they say “aces” (as in “aces shut up”) it does tend to mean “people who disagree with me”, as they seem totally fine with aces writing to agree with them (and not okay with allo aros disagreeing, the couple of times it’s happened).

--

I will say that when you say “a year ago this just wasn’t happening” that’s not actually true, though I believe that’s your perception of it. A year ago this was actually at its height, and I took a two-month hiatus from tumblr exactly because this was happening (see: Feb. 2019 Carnival of Aros). Though the voices that used to be the loudest and angriest are much quieter now, I think because they’ve gotten a bit more involved in activism and have found a productive outlet for that (understandable) frustration.

I’d say this current environment has been building for about the past two years, though the lack of allo aro representation within the aro community has been an issue that’s been on my radar since I joined this blog five years ago. So I think the feeling of “this is just popping up now” is probably just that you managed to avoid noticing it until now, not that it wasn’t happening.

--

I also want to affirm that there are significant intracommunity issues that allo aros face, even if you aren’t seeing the ones that quiet-times is complaining about. I’ve personally heard other aces say some nasty things about allo aros. Honestly my biggest criticism with the issues that are brought up most often (by everyone, not just quiet-times) are that they’re like... the least serious of the issues that could be addressed?

Like, the kind of issues I’ve seen are aces saying things like “well allo aros have hookup spaces like tinder and dances so do they really need aro community spaces?” and “If we invite allo aros into this space, then it’s going to turn into a hookup space and I won’t feel safe”. I kid you not - other than the paraphrasing, these are real things I’ve heard irl aces say.

But then the issue I see talked about most is mistagging which is like... 1) no longer an issue, 2) it’s mostly non aces doing it, and 3) half of the posts they target aren’t mistagged they just don’t get it. Why is this what they’re focusing on? (And sometimes straight-up made-up issues like “aces stealing aro terms” that were created by aces in the first place smh.)

And this weakens their argument in the eyes of people like you, because when all the things you see them complaining about are questionable at best, you stop believing them.

--

Then my second issue is that they (and again, I mean multiple people here), act as though being allo aro makes them immune to being acephobic, or that since they perceive aces as oppressing allo aros, it’s not possible for them to be acephobic, which just... isn’t true (and I think they know that?).

Like a lot of the criticisms of queeragamic were uncomfortably close to the classic “asexuality is tmi; don’t tell me about your sex life.” Which... you can complain about the word without... saying that? Thanks?

Speaking of queeragamic, there was also a lot of generalizing that ALL aces will immediately flock to that word. Which, if they stopped telling aces to shut up for one minute and engaged in a conversation with them about the term, they’d realize that the vast majority of aces (at least within the circles I talk to) dislike the word queeragamic, meaning they’re fretting (and harassing people) over nothing. And it’d be a whole lot less stress on them honestly.

--

I will say that whatever nonsense has been happening lately with allegedly ace people trying to join allo aro community spaces is pretty messed up. I say allegedly because it’s so ridiculous that I have a hard time believing that the people pulling this actually believe the things they are saying - it just seems like they want to make allo aros feel unsafe and/or stir up community drama. Which seems like something that a non-ace/aro aphobe would be as likely to do as a misguided/hateful ace person.

--

Lastly, I highly recommend just blocking people or taking a break from tumblr. I don’t take my own advice when it comes to ace and aro intracommunity issues (until someone devolves into sending me anon hate), but I really recommend that you do so. It will be so much better for your mental well-being.

[acegimmickblog]

Vent post ahead!!!

You don’t need to read this post, I just wanted to have my thoughts written down somewhere in the world and out of my head.

(This post is about my first time coming out to anyone and does contain aphobia, specifically arophobia, so please don’t read if you are sensitive to this!!!!!!!!)

July, 2019 (yes this is very recent). I’m at a mission trip with my church and we have completed all the tasks for the day so everyone is hanging out around the church we are staying at. Some people are downstairs where all of our beds and luggage are but me and my closest group of friends (with some mutuals) decide to stay on the main floor.

We are sitting in some couches that we have arranged into a circle and there are about 5 different conversations going on. Me and my best friend (who for the sake of anonymity we’ll call Sarah) are just talking to each other one on one. There is a pause in the conversation where the thought that nearly every LGBTQ+ kid has enters my head..... should I come out to her?

Sarah knows me really well, so the second that thought comes into my head she notices and asks if I’m ok. There’s a long pause. I tell her that I have something important to tell her. Keep in mind that she had told me that she’s bi only a few weeks ago. After what felt like the most excruciating few seconds of my life, I told her “I’m Asexual!!”. she looks shocked but also understanding. There is a knowing smile on her face and she offers some comforting words. She puts her hand on mine in comfort. “So, who are you romantically attracted to?” are the next words out of her mouth. I wasn’t quite planning on coming out as aromantic as well as asexual but the feeling of acceptance she was giving me gave me the courage to say “Actually, I’m aromantic, so no one”.

The understanding smile on her face is immediately replaced with something else. it takes a couple seconds to pinpoint what it is and this is where things go downhill.

Her face was one of pity. She pitied me for being aromantic. Something I couldn’t control and was perfectly content with being.

SERIOUSLY???!!! THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS??? I’d always heard stories about people being belittled and pitied because they don’t feel romantic attraction but I thought she would be different. She should’ve understood!! She has to understand!

“Oh my gosh! That’s so sad! Don’t you feel lonely? You have no idea what you’re missing out on”. She gave me every line in the aphobic book.

At this point I’m trying to hold it together. My body is shaking from her words and how she felt SORRY for me!!

I quickly explain to her that “No, I don’t feel lonely” and “No, I don’t think I’m missing out”.

Her hand of “comfort” feels like it’s there to console me for losing a loved one instead of saying she accepts me.

I’m not sure she ever realized how hurtful her words were but I do hope that one day she sees the pain she caused in my heart. I had never! ever! told anyone! about my identity and she was PITYING ME FOR IT!!

We continue the night with me feeling like crap and her probably thinking she was completely supportive. I end up telling one of my other friends (his name can be Jack for the story) about my aroace identity and he just said “Oh, ok. That’s cool. That means you don’t like anyone, right?” “Right” “Alright, cool.” and with that he resumed his conversation with some of our other friends. We almost told one more of my friends but he was saying some very homophobic things so we didn’t. A few minutes later, Sarah says she was heading to bed early.

I’m sitting there stewing in my thoughts and how I was probably never going to come out to anyone else. So far I’d had one negative reaction and one indifferent reaction. Not great.

One of the freshman girls (I’m a sophomore so I didn’t know her) who was on Jack’s team and kinda knew him was sitting on the couch next to mine. She had obviously overheard me and my friend’s talk because she called out the words that were probably what stopped me from never talking about my orientation and pretending I had made it up.

“I’m asexual too”.

I was snapped out of my thoughts of unintentional rejection. I stared at her in shock because A. I didn’t know her and she just straight up came out to me and B. she had said it loudly and everyone else in the circle momentarily glanced at us but ultimately ignored it.

She moved over to the couch I was sitting and we started talking. I learned her name was, for the story, Jenna. She was (and still is) asexual and biromantic. We quickly ended up bonding over other things we had in common (like P!ATD, MCR, Umbrella Academy, etc.) but the conversation remained mostly on us being ace.

Turns out Jenna had been rejected by people in the same way that I just was. She also talked about how she thought that what my other friend had said was wrong and that I was valid, aromantic or not.

Her openness and willingness to share made my confidence shoot back up. My pride was back.

I’ve only come out to two other people in my life since then (I know, soOoOoOo many). One (her name can be Lily) had just told me she was a lesbian earlier that day and was talking about how much she hated aphobia and how they should be allowed to live how they want and don’t need romance or sex. I told her that I was aroace pretty quickly after that.

At a party where I knew no one, there was a mutual friend that I was chatting who slipped she was pan accidentally. She had a brief moment of freak out but I told her I was cool with it and would keep it secret since I knew how it felt. I never talked to her after that.

I’m still friends with Sarah, Jenna, Jack, Lily, and even that one homophobic kid (but he’s changed a lot since then and is much more accepting towards LGBT people).

The reason I’m posting this is because 1. It is important that people realize how hurtful they can be with aphobia and 2. my mind has been torturing me with that moment all week.

I never fully recovered from Sarah’s words and they are often a source of doubt for me.

She still pulls that same pitying face when my aromanticism comes up in conversation and I try to ignore it but my heart breaks more each time.

All I want to say is that aphobia sucks. Jenna has gotten threats about correctional rape and one guy even tried to follow through on it. I’ve had guys try and forcefully kiss me since I had told them I don’t like boys.

It’s things like this that makes me so mad that people are trying to block aces and aros out of the community.

we are real and our pain is real

alright. I’m finished.

[famous-aces]

Henry David Thoreau

Who: Henry David Thoreau

What: Author, Philosopher, Abolitionist, Activist, Naturalist, Critic, Surveyor, Yogi, Historian...ah, Jeez, what wasn't he?

Where: American (active largely in the US)

When: July 12, 1817 – May 6, 1862

(Image description: a photo of Henry David Thoreau from 1861, it is obviously in black and white but has faded to sepia. He is a white man in a jacket and what appears to be a scarf or cravat. He has a long, tired face, circles around his eyes. He has a thick beard and mustache and slightly messy hair, his hair is dark but graying.  End ID)

You have probably heard this name even if you don't know why. He is best known  for his memoirs, essays, and his role in the founding of the Transcendentalist movement. His progressive philosophy remains relevant to this day. His influence has lasted well over a century and he served as inspiration for the likes of JFK, Martin Luther King Jr., Hemingway, Tolstoy, Shaw, Gandhi, among dozens of other names of equal note.

Thoreau was a Transcendentalist through and through, meaning he believed in the inherent goodness of humanity and nature in conjunction with science, and the power of the individual. His writing is generally practical, thoughtful, detailed, and observant, and he wrote extensively on a number of subjects. Perhaps most notably on environmentalism (he is one of the inspirations for and a precursor to the 20th century environmentalist movement), nature, ethics, simple living, direct action, civil disobedience, abolition, tax resistance, anarchy, among countless other topics.  

Thoreau's most famous and popular works include Walden, which is the published version of of the diary Thoreau kept over his two year social experiment at Walden Pond (written beginning in 1845, published in 1854), "Civil Disobedience,"  which helped both Gandhi and Dr. King form their philosophies, and states that in an unjust society the just must rebel, (it was originally titled "Resistance to Civil Government or Civil Disobedience", 1849), "Walking" an instruction manual on how Thoreau thought, observed, and wrote (1862), "Slavery in Massachusetts", a speech given at a rally to protest the re-enslavement of escapee/fugitive slave Anthony Burns (1854) and Excursions, collection of essays, published posthumously in 1863 with biographical introduction by fellow author and Transcendentalist Ralph Waldo Emerson.  He also wrote on John Brown and his execution ("A Plea for Captain John Brown" [1859], Remarks After the Hanging of John Brown [1859], and The Last Days of John Brown [1860]).

(Image description: a replica of Thoreau's cabin in Walden. It is a very small wooded. Cabin in a clearing, one room at most, brown/gray in color. It has a white multi-paned window and a brick chimney in the back. The whole cabin is not much taller than its door. Behind it is a shed or outhouse.  They are surrounded by trees. Touching one of the closest trees is a brown metal statue of a man walking, presumably Thoreau. End ID)

Probable Orientation: Gay ace or possibly aroace with a desire for a male QPP.

I am very confident in Thoreau's asexuality, if a little shakier on his romantic orientation. As far as anyone knows (and his life has been repeatedly and heavily scrutinized since the 19th century) Thoreau never had a romantic or sexual partner. He was a public figure with a wide circle of friends, someone would have known at some point during his life and if somehow a partner escaped notice the historians who dedicated their lives to studying his life specifically would have uncovered them. Thoreau wrote on male/male relationships, some more platonic, some queerplatonic, some vagulely romantic, none sexual.

Thoreau, like Elizabeth I, is one cishets hold onto, turning away from the idea he could be anything but heterosexual regardless of the evidence to the contrary.  Like Andy Warhol he is one exclusionists refuse to acknowledge was ace, although they have even less of an argument here. Many aphobic fans of Thoreau are terrified by the idea that maybe, just maybe, the thing Thoreau loved most was nature. Some outrageous arguments from either side include: one historian claimed a poem Thoreau wrote for a man was actually meant for that guy's sister, some say he was being hip in writing about Achilles, some say he was too repressed to have sex, especially since he was gay. One blogger got heated in his admantness that Thoreau wasn't ace but was "a human being with feelings and needs." Nice aphobia there, dude.

But here is the thing about any of those arguments: Thoreau broke every other rule in his culture. He was not afraid to be different, and separated himself from society.  He was all about the individual breaking away from society and its traditions and going with your human nature. Thoreau did what he believed to be right.

He had a following, many friends and aquaintences, almost certainly suitors, he spent a lot of time alone in the company of men he seemed to find attractive e.g. Tom Fowler (who was his sole companion and guide through Maine) and Alek Therien (who visited Thoreau alone at Walden). I firmly believe that his percieved "prudishness" was not artificial but came from a genuine disinterest and failure to even really understand sexual attraction (his journals imply as much, you will see). If he did sleep with any of these men Thoreau never documented it, not even in his own journals. But what he did articulate in letters is that society's refusal to discuss sex/physical relationships was proof of its problems. Sex was natural so dismissing it wasn't. 

His feelings about sex are contradictory, he thinks it must be natural but he also finds it repulsive and dirty. He makes note at one point of how beautiful pollination is (he is quoting and translating J. Biberg but agrees with the sentiment and indeed only uses the quote to prove his point on the beauty of sexless flowers), but he vilifies or dislikes human intercourse. Thoreau seems to like the idea of sex without the sex, he likes closeness more than intercourse. He wants to like sex but can't, the closest he gets is the desire for these things to be open.

Quotes:

Hang onto your hats. There are some long ones here, but Thoreau, like Chopin, is pretty overtly ace. Like he couldn't make it clear without waving an asexual pride flag, would be hard considering it was invented in what? 2010? And Thoreau had already been dead 148 chaste, chaste years.

"What is commonly honored with the name of Friendship is no very profound or powerful instinct...I do not often see the farmers made seers and wise to the verge of insanity by their Friendship for one another. They are not often transfigured and translated by love in each other’s presence. I do not observe them purified, refined, and elevated by the love of a man…I do not often see the farmers made seers and wise to the verge of insanity by their Friendship for one another. They are not often transfigured and translated by love in each other’s presence. I do not observe them purified, refined, and elevated by the love of a man…Nor do the farmers' wives lead lives consecrated to Friendship. I do not see the pair of farmer Friends of either sex prepared to stand against the world...Even the utmost good-will and harmony and practical kindness are not sufficient for Friendship, for Friends do not live in harmony merely, as some say, but in melody. We do not wish for Friends to feed and clothe our bodies,--neighbors are kind enough for that,--but to do the like office to our spirits…[the ideal friendship] will make a man honest; it will make him a hero; it will make him a saint. It is the state of the just dealing with the just, the magnanimous with the magnanimous, the sincere with the sincere, man with man.”

-Henry David Thoreau, from his journal 1839. This entry on friendship the hope for something deeper than what most people call by that name, but still looking for friendship. He is looking for a partner, an emotional, spiritual, partner. This quote could be read as romantic or queerplatonic. You know which one I am leaning toward, queerplatonic, especially because he specifies these relationships as unique from marriage (which he equates in other texts with sex and maybe romance) also he was writing while on a trip with his brother, John, to whom he would later dedicate the publication after John's death in 1842. But it could easily also be a sexless romantic relationship, what he is looking for is not explicitly either.

The following are all from 1852 letters written by Thoreau to his friend and proofreader Harrison Blake. One of these letters was overtly written on the subject of "Chastity and Sensuality" and contains his complicated feelings on sexuality:

"What the essential difference between man and woman is, that they should be thus attracted to one another, no one has satisfactorily answered."

(Note: self explanatory)

"If it is the result of a pure love, there can be nothing sensual in marriage. Chastity is something positive, not negative. It is the virtue of the married especially. All lusts or base pleasures must give place to loftier delights...The deeds of love are less questionable than any action of an individual can be, for, it being founded on the rarest mutual respect, the parties incessantly stimulate each other to a loftier and purer life, and the act in which they are associated must be pure and noble indeed..."

(Note: in the above quote he seems to believe that in marriage sex must eventually stop because there is something better. As if they have gotten the sex stuff out of the way.)

"Love and lust are as far asunder as a flower-garden is from a brothel.

(Note: this was part of his description for his disdain for human sex vs human love, his confusion about sex but love of human relationships. It is part of that desire for sex without sex thing I mentioned but harsher than his tone in a later letter.)

"'The organs of generation, which, in the animal kingdom, are for the most part concealed by nature, as if they were to be ashamed of, in the vegetable kingdom are ex posed to the eyes of all ; and, when the nuptials of plants are celebrated, it is wonderful what delight they afford to the beholder, refreshing...'"

(Note: this is Thoreau quoting and translating J. Biberg. Part of the same letter as the brothel line. In this letter he discusses how perturbed he is by sex and lust, but how it should be something beautiful. He celebrates pollination, while finding human sex distasteful, again sex without sex.)

"The intercourse of the sexes, I have dreamed, is incredibly beautiful, too fair to be remembered. I have had thoughts about it, but they are among the most fleeting and irrecoverable in my experience."

(Note: Also self explanatory)

(Image description: the original title page of Walden. It has an illustration on it drawn by Thoreau's sister Sophia. Above the illustration it reads "Walden; or Life in the Woods by Henry D. Thoreau, Author of "A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers". Then is the illustration showing Thoreau's cabin, it looks very much like the modern replica if with a slightly different treeline.  There is a path leading from the cabin down to the bottom of the image directed at the words below. The text continues after the drawing "I do not propose to write an ode to dejection, but to brag as lustily as chanticleer in the morning, standing on his roost, if only to wake the neighbors up. -Page 92. Boston, Ticknor and Fields. M DCCC LIV.". End ID)

[arotechno]

Carnival of Aros: April 2019

In terms of being out as aromantic, there has never been a time where I wasn’t occupying some sort of gray space between being out and not being out. Up until relatively recently, I had never come out to anyone at all, and yet from the very beginning it was never a secret.

The first person most people come out to is themselves, but I don’t know that I really did that, either. Growing up, my aromanticism would have been obvious, had it been a term that really existed when I was a child. I never really had crushes, and this was not strange to me. I knew it was relatively uncommon, but I figured I couldn’t be the only one, and so I continued to pass off my lack of crushes as not liking anyone simply because I had been around the same people my entire life. I was 15 when I discovered aromanticism and asexuality, and I can’t pinpoint a moment where I really came out to myself; it was a gradual acceptance of a label that described what I always knew to be true about myself. In a turbulent period in my life, realizing I was aroace was the only thing I was sure about, like the quiet resolution to a story I hadn’t known I was even a part of.

I never came out to my three closest friends from high school. Over time, my aromanticism simply became fact, but there was a period of about a year where I was treading water in some sort of limbo, unsure whether they really knew or not, and it took even longer after that for me to get comfortable ever mentioning my aromanticism out loud.

I’ve always been more open about being asexual. Maybe it’s because that piece of my identity always felt less close to my core, or maybe it’s because more people have at least heard of it before. Maybe it’s because it was just easier that way. I’ve been taught, even by some sectors of the ace community, that my aromanticism is something to be kept in line, hidden from view, left as a secondary piece of my identity. For that reason, even if I was openly asexual, I was still always floating within some gray area where my aromanticism may have either been understood by association or rejected entirely.

This past October, I made a post on my private Instagram coming out as aromantic and aromantic alone. While I wasn’t hiding my asexuality, it was a conscious choice to subvert my previous trend of being open about being ace and hiding my aromanticism. It was an effort to have my aromanticism viewed as whole, rather than a secondary piece of who I was. Making that post was difficult; I was sweating, waiting for my college friends to see it and for the other shoe to drop and the social circle I’d finally built for myself to come crashing down. But for better or worse, on the whole it was quiet. I received some supportive comments, mostly from my high school friends who knew how hard it was for me to make that post, but my college friends were quiet. And really, when coming out as something so widely unheard of and rarely understood, a quiet, uneventful acceptance of the facts was all I could have asked for.

It took me over four years to properly come out at all, and I’ve still never come out to anyone in person. Most of my family is still in the dark, with the exception of my sister, and to this day it’s still incredibly hard for me to talk about my aromanticism out loud. Even so, being out to my newest friends and having them acknowledge me with no questions asked has done away with some of the shame I felt for so long about being aro. Every time one of my friends makes a joke about me not being into romance or lets me joke about my queerness, every time my roommate acknowledges me as being lgbtq+, I feel a little lighter. I don’t think I’ll ever be out to everyone in my life, and it’s always going to be hard for me to push past the internalized feelings of shame and imposter syndrome that have taught me that my aromanticism is wrong or “cringey” or that I’m not queer enough to have my identity honored. But I’m willing to take it slow and savor each and every tiny, hesitant step through the in-between space I call home.

[diagnosed-crazy]

AroAce

Here is a fun story about how I found out I was asexual and why I believe myself to be aromantic.

tl:dr I knew that I was aromantic and asexual because I never felt any type of attraction towards anyone.

When I was in late middle school years, I overheard two of my female classmates (I am also female) talking about how they felt when they looked at someone they thought was “hot”. One of the was like, “Yeah, when I see him, its like a waterfall.”

At the time, I had no idea what the fuck that meant, and not because I was some sheltered child who had never heard a bad word or watched an R rated movie (my family did not care what I watched and I used to play drinking games with my parents and older siblings while drinking a juice box. I was not sheltered). I just could not relate to that experience.

It stuck with me. It was something that I noticed more and more as more of my classmates got into relationship and would share their experiences. I never felt like that, and it wasn’t until I came across the term Asexual that things started to make sense. I wasn’t just a weird kid who hadn’t talked to enough people or looked at enough attractive people or gotten emotionally close enough with someone to feel that way. I just didn’t feel it and there were other people like me.

I came out to my friends junior year of high school because we were at speech practice and someone said something about the not being asexual because they like women too much and I was like “I am.” and that was it.

As for why I suspected I am aromantic, that took me a little bit longer to understand. I considered and accepted that I was aromantic towards the end of my senior year of high school. I hadn’t ever felt romantically attracted to anyone ever. I hadn’t been in any serious relationships. I wasn’t ever interested in anyone, but I kept making excuses of: “Oh, I just don’t talk to many people who aren’t my friends.” or “If I wanted to date someone, I could start talking to someone and I could develop romantic feelings.”

It came down to me thinking about the past relationships that I had been in, and the previous “crush” that I had. The fact that I had only ever had one “crush” should have probably been a factor already, but after I realized I was ace, I started thinking about why I said I had a crush on someone. A close friend at the time was always pressuring me to say something. “Who do you like? Why do you like them?” so finally I gave them a name. A boy with really pretty eyes who was involved in the same things I was, but who I was not friends with or in any of the close circles around me. He was just close enough to not be strange to like, but not close enough that I would ever be asked to socialize with him. (Also I say pretty eyes from an artistic perspective. They were a really cool color and I always wanted to try and paint them.)

I had a hard time accepting that for a while though. I didn’t like the idea of being alone in my life, and while I thought being asexual would make it hard to find someone who would want to be with me, being aromantic to me meant that I was doomed to be alone forever and left behind by all the people around me. I know that this was a stupid thought, but it was how I felt for a while. When I first starting thinking about it, being aromantic to me meant a concrete black and white state of not feeling attracted to anyone or having life partners. That is just not the case. Like everything, being aromantic is also a spectrum, and I have come to feel very comfortable in this little aroace range I am occupying.

I learned that I could still feel romantic attraction, it could just not happen very often (haven’t had it happen yet, but your never know). I learned that even if I never feel romantic attraction, I could still be in healthy and loving romantic relationships. I learned that if I didn’t want a romantic relationship, I could still have a platonic partner.

But most of all, I learned that I am okay with being the crazy mountain lady living alone in the woods that I will probably turn out to be. And I have come to greatly appreciate the fact that I have yet to feel the warm fuzzies because my friends all feel them and it seems like a bunch of unnecessary bullshit. Love triangles and cheating and heartbreak. Granted not all of them have the greatest taste in partners, but I’m good. I don’t want to deal with that first hand. Second hand was more than enough.

[aroacehogwarts]

Aroace agender Charlie being the sibling everyone goes to for help? (Examples: Aromantic bisexual Fred, heteromantic asexual Percy, biromantic demisexual Ron, grey-aromantic polysexual George, and panromantic asexual bigender Ginny)

“Weren’t you supposed to take the big brother role here?”

Bill laughed. “I have. But I’m the cool big brother you come to with the bad secrets you don’t want mum to yell at you about. You’re the sibling who came out first - and in a more, um, spectacularly memorable way - so you’re the sib to go to for that kind of advice and those kinds of secrets.”

“Spectacularly memorable? It wasn’t that big?” 

Bill snorted into his drink in response, causing Charlie’s face to redden. 

“Oh, come one! I’ve got to be allowed to live that down at some point.”

“Live down setting the house on fire? Sorry, Charlie, very doubtful.”

“I didn’t set the Burrow on fire! I just... got excited.”

“Angry is more like it.” The smile on Bill’s face betrayed no anger or upset over the memory.

“Well, mum told me I should just try dating a nice girl! And then said had to clarify ‘not that Tonks, though, she just can’t follow the rules and that makes her not a nice lady’!”

Bill burst out into laughter, burying his head in his arms to try and hide his amusement. Charlie groaned and rubbed their face.

When he finally gathered himself, Bill sat up and patted Charlie’s shoulder. “Sorry, lil sib. You literally burned that into all of our memories, though.” Sensing a subject change was in order, he added, “Merlin, I think that might be the only time I’ve actually seen dad mad. That was impressive.”

Charlie rubbed at their hands and grimaced. “The only time he’s handed down punishment, too. I was scrubbing burn marks out of the walls by hands for ages. Thought they’d never clean up without magic. Mum would not let me quit, though.”

“You had the rest of us the most well behaved we’ve ever been that month, too.” At that, Charlie finally gave their own laugh, low and deep and genuine.

“So who was it this time?”

“Percy. Poor stuck up little thing is finally realizing he may not be as straight as he’s always thought.”

“I could have told him that,” Bill muttered.

Charlie grinned, having no trouble catching the words. “We all gotta go at our own pace, don’t we?”

“Oh, shut it,” Bill teased. Charlie was, of course, referring to the fact that Bill had lamented over his ginormous crush on his classmate Phillip for a year before realizing it was a crush and he didn’t just really badly want to be Phillip’s friend. “So he’s ace, right? Been guessing that one for ages.” 

Charlie nodded. “Most likely. He still hasn’t admitted it, though. He’s just coming to terms with thinking about it.”

“Well, he’s lucky to have you.”

Charlie’s blush returned. “Whatever. He’s gotta be easier to talk through it than George, who could not wrap his mind around grayaromanticism, and definitely easier than Ron who straight up was just deep in denial about being bi much less demisexual. You shoulda heard some of the ways he talked me in circles trying to say neither of those were really things while trying not to invalidate the rest of us.”

“Gotta admit, sib. I do not envy you. I prefer hearing about things like Fred and George trying to figure out how to sneak a toilet seat out to the owlery and convince enough owls to carry it back to Ginny or Ginny telling me shi’s transfigured a boy into meerkat for calling hir a - well, a not very nice name - and that shi can’t figure out how to transfigure him back.”

Charlie looked stunned for a moment, then choked, then erupted into laughter. “Ginny did what!?”

“I didn’t tell you?” Bill raised an eyebrow. “Damn, that was good gossip, too.”

And the rest of the evening was spent dishing about their siblings (Charlie even dished on themselves, revealing how they’d convinced some friends to sneak into Hogwarts to pick up an illegal dragon that Hagrid had somehow gotten a hold of). It’d been a long time since Bill and Charlie had just gotten to hang out and enjoy each other’s company. It was a night very well spent.

~Hufflepuff Mod

[iamchrissi]

We leave only a mark

AroAce!Natasha for the world

“He's friends with a member of the World Security Council. You know, the guys who basically rule the world? Yeah, he's friends with one of them.” He looks at her, desire to impress and desire for sex written all over his face, and Natasha plays along, let's herself gasp as though she is excited about this. “I saw him once, after a meeting. Looked like a regular guy, white hair and all, but, you know... rules the world.”

He's also a member of Hydra, and probably recruited the CEO of Mikros Engineering into it, as well. Which explains at least some of the tech Hydra has, and why Michael Mikros doesn't seem afraid of AIM.

Natasha quickly leaves the party after that. She gives Mikros a fake phone number, bats her eye lashes a bit more, and resists the urge to roll her eyes as she feels his eyes on her ass. She doesn't really like jobs like this, job that rely on her sex appeal, but she doesn't hate them, either. She's good at them, good at making them see a woman for the night, and as long as they only see that, they don't see a spy. And it's easy, so, win win.

“You know, there's a queer cafe in town. I go there every now and then, I could take you too, if you wanted.” Laura says one day, walking a fussing Lila around while Natasha is trying to feed Coop some mashed potatoes.

“I... I don't know.” Natasha says. It's... not something she's ever thought about, really. Not about Laura being bi, the giant bi pride flag that decorated the wall being something of a tip off about that, but about... being out to strangers.

Natasha's body is a weapon, and her sex appeal is part of that. An important part. Once people know that she's not into sex... well, most of them either stop seeing her as human, or they want to fix her. As though being ace means she is broken.

“You don't have to, of course. But everyone knows you as Clint's sister anyway, so that wouldn't be a problem. And the people there are really nice. Clint's been there a few times, too. You could go with him, if you wanted.” Laura tells her, walking in a small circle now. Lila seems to calm down a bit.

“I... maybe. I think I'll... need time for that. But maybe.” Natasha says, trying to concentrate on Coop, and on getting the food into his mouth. It's more difficult than it seems, given that Coop doesn't really seem interested in eating.

“But thank you for offering.”

She used to wonder, if being ace was something that was done to her. If it's just another part of her that the Red Room broke. If, had she never been a Black Widow, she wouldn't be ace.

At some point, though, she decided it doesn't matter. It's part of who she is. Like that wry sense of humor that still surprises her sometimes, or the way she builds herself layer over layer, or the fact that it turns out she wants to believe in doing the right thing.

Natasha changes her hair, her name, sometimes even her eyes. She changes her accent and her nationality and her loyalty, but she can't change that. Being ace is part of her. She decides she's proud of it.

Stark gives them all rooms in his tower. Well, technically speaking, it's the Avengers Tower now, but Natasha doesn't think it well never not be Stark's. She's pretty sure everyone else knows it, too. Maybe Stark will realize that someday, maybe he won't.

“Look, I've got you everything you could ever need.” He says, pointing at her rooms. They are full of tasteful, expensive furniture, which means that it was definitively Pepper who got everything, not him. Natasha raises her eyebrow at him, and he sighs.

“Bed, wardrobe, bathroom, kitchen, books, weapons storage... hell, I even got you a fully stocked naughty cupboard. Condoms, Lube, whatever you need... I promise I won't ask about anyone you bring up here!” He points at a black cupboard. Natasha rolls her eyes.

“I won't use any of the stuff.” She says, stifling a sigh. The bed looks comfy, she will admit that. Not as nice as the bed she has at the farm, but she is willing to admit that that's probably down to the fact that the farm is home, and this will never be. She's biased. But this... this is Stark trying. So... it's not terrible.

“You're the hottest woman I know, of course you'll have the opportunity to use it. But, like I said, I won't ask. It's a rule. Pepper insisted. Any partners that are brought to the rooms are not talked about unless you bring it up.” Stark tells her, looking somewhat sincere.

“That's not...” Natasha starts, but then shakes her head. She's not in the mood to explain asexuality today, and really, she doesn't know Stark enough for that yet.

He doesn't seem to have heard her anyway.

The trainers taught them about sex. Mostly about how to use it to get what they want. How to seduce, and how to pretend to be seduced. How to fake attraction and desire, even when the target was disgusting. How to pretend to consider a ninety year old hot.

They didn't teach them about their own sexuality. It wasn't important. They weren't people to them, after all. Just weapons. Weapons don't have desires, Weapons simply function, or they don't function. Then they get fixed.

When she was a little girl, Natasha thought that desire was a male thing. That's what the teachers talked about, that men would want pretty girls, and that it was their duty to make them want them. That good little dancers could make anyone want them.

She was twelve when she was told about seducing women, and thirteen when she realized that Warwara wasn't just friends with Galina.

She wasn't sure what she thought about that. Maybe she was jealous, because they were so close. Because they trusted each other in a way nobody here did. Because they could trust each other like that.

Maybe she thought she was superior to them, not distracted by love like this. Not having to deal with feelings. Or loyalties to anyone but their trainers.

She thinks it was both. She's not proud of the latter, but at thirteen, being the best, the most focused, was still important to her. These days, she's just sad. She knows how they died, can still see Warwara curled around Galina, Galina's blood all over Warwara's hair, a knife sticking out of Warwara's back.

They were children. All of them. The trainers wanted to turn them into weapons, but they were children, too.

“Want to go on a date?” Maria asks, straight forward and precise as always. Natasha appreciates that. She can read innuendo, and implications, but she likes it when she doesn't have to. She likes it when things are clear.

“No. I'm aro ace.” She says. Direct and clear. No ambiguities or possibilities for misunderstandings. She knows that Maria likes it that way, too. Something about being the deputy director of a huge secret organization. Or possibly just something about Maria. Her friend nods.

“Okay. Want to be my wing woman?” Maria asks, and Natasha smiles.

“Sure.”

Clint and her teach themselves how to knit during a long, cold mission in Belarus. They are mostly waiting for their marks to make their move, and are stuck between hiding in their safe house and staking out the human traffickers.

They've been working together for three years by now, and Natasha's been to the farms a few times, enough that she feels almost as though she's part of Clint's family. Almost. She's an assassin after all, a Black Widow. THE Black Widow. She doesn't have a family.

They make scarves. It's the easiest pattern in the book they've brought, and they figure they can use them immediately.

“The blue will look cute on you.” Clint says, looking at the tangled mess in her lap. She picked out the color so carefully, but apparently, knitting takes more practice than she'd thought, because what she has so far just doesn't really look good.

“I actually thought about giving this one to Cooper, but the way it looks... probably the next one, instead.” She says, almost shyly. She's held Coop, has babysitted him, she knows that Clint trusts her with him, that he approves of her caring about his son, but it still feels... weird, to talk about Clint's family like this.

His eyes light up, and it makes Natasha feel warm inside. Wanted. Not sexually, not like all those men who ogle her whenever they have a chance, but as though Clint really wants her to be part of his family.

“He'd like that. Even if the scarf is a bit tangled.” Clint says, smiling genuinely, and Natasha knows that he means that he likes it, too. And that he is touched by the gesture. She smiles.

“And yours? Purple is definitively your color.” She teases. It's true. Clint has always had a thing about purple, though the shade he's using isn't really... him, somehow. Which is strange, because he wears all sorts of different shades of purple. It just doesn't feel right for him, she thinks.

“It's not for me.” He says, but refuses to elaborate.

When they leave, he hands her the scarf, and she realizes it's not only purple, but white, gray and black too, arranged like the ace pride flag. They've never talked about it, she'd never brought it up and he'd never asked. They don't talk about it now, either. But she grins, and he smiles, and that's enough.

“Are you lonely?” Nick asks. Natasha looks up from her book. The question is kind of out of the blue, really, especially given that Nick knows where and more importantly with whom she is going to spend Christmas.

“No. Why would I be?” She asks in return, fixing him with a searching look. Nick doesn't do personal questions, not really. Not usually. Not when he is most likely going to show up for Christmas, too.

“Do you...” He stops, shaking his head. It's awkward, and he knows it. “Do you want to date someone?” And, okay, this is not something Natasha ever thought she'd talk to Nick of all people about. She knows he cares, but dating? Really?

“Nope. I'm good. And ace.” She tells him, and he nods. He won't ask what that means. Whether he knows, or is just going to look it up later, she's not sure, but it's not like he'd say either way.

“Are you lonely?” Natasha asks. She doesn't think so, but if he's asking her... he doesn't have a girlfriend, or a boyfriend, either, as far as she knows. And Natasha knows a lot.

“To busy to be lonely. And I've got people.” He smiles, that rare smile that he reserves for her and Clint and Laura and the kids. She smiles, too.

It's Sam who drags them to the bar. He says something about doing normal people things, and about letting go, and Natasha thinks that it might be what counts as a bonding exercise for him.

She's not good with bonding stuff. She usually just... makes sure she can trust a person, and then... sort of acts as their friend until they catch up. Which usually takes ages. She thinks she's copying that from Clint. He'd essentially acted as though he was her brother more or less from the moment he had decided not to kill her.

Steve has caught up, finally. It took fighting Nazis to get there, but he's realized that their friends. And Sam is a friend too, sort of. She's looked him up, has memorized his file and picked up a lot through his reactions to things, but she doesn't really know him yet. So... bar.

It's an old bar, not ugly but with character. Two exits, Natasha notes, plus the way through the kitchen. A few people, but not too many. She can keep an eye on them, and the bartender. It's nice. And judging by the way Sam looks at her, he knows that that's what she would appreciate about this place. She allows herself to smile.

“Nice place.” She says, and Sam grins. Steve nods. His hair is a muddy brown, just like hers. She had insisted. No point in getting recognized as two Avengers and Falcon. Not when the fall of SHIELD is still so fresh in people's mind.

They order their drinks, talking about all sort of things, none that are important. The alcohol doesn't really affect Natasha, whether that's due to her being Russian or due to her being a Black Widow, she's doesn't know, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't affect Steve, either, and Sam is drinking a beer. It's... nice. Not like going out with Clint or Laura, or Maria or Coulson, but... nice.

“See those guys over there?” Sam asks after a while. “They're cute. And they've been staring at us for a while.” Steve looks over immediately, and Natasha sighs fondly. Subtly is not his strong suit.

“They look... nice?” He says. The question mark is obvious in his voice. Natasha chuckles. The group Sam is referring to is composed of three men and two women in their late twenties, all of them conventionally good looking.

“None of them catch your eye? Both of you could do with a distraction, you know.” Sam says, and Natasha knows he's teasing them, but she somehow answering honestly feels right, anyway.

“Nah.” She says, taking a sip of her drink, preparing herself for questions and judgemental idiots. “Not interested in sex.”

Steve stares at her. She wonders if she should explain things to him. She's not Stark, she knows that queer people didn't pop up in the last twenty years, but asexuality isn't commonly known even today, so...

“I'm asexual. It's a sexual orientation, like straight, gay or bisexual. It means I'm not sexually attracted to anyone. There are asexuals who like to have sex anyway, but I'm not one of them. Honestly speaking, I'm the cliché asexual. I prefer cake.” She explains, feeling slightly self conscious. Which is stupid. Steve doesn't do judgy about stuff like this, she knows that.

“I know what asexuality is, I looked it up when I woke up. I just... didn't realize I knew another asexual.” Steve says, and wow, Natasha had not expected this to be where this conversation was going.

“Wait, you're both ace?” Sam asks, looking genuinely interested, and maybe Laura is right and Natasha actually does have pretty good instincts when it comes to friends.

“Well, I'm demi. And biromantic. Or panromantic. Haven't really figured that part out, yet. But... definitively on the ace spectrum. I... I never knew anyone else that was on the ace spectrum, too.” He seems relieved to say it openly, and suddenly Natasha can't help but think of how all those conservatives thought that Steve was the perfect icon for the rich, white and straight. Oops.

“So... what you're telling me is that nobody here is straight. Nice.” Sam says, grinning at them. Natasha smiles. She's pretty sure he's been trying to flirt with both her and Steve since he met them, so...

“Bisexual?” She asks.

“And proud.” He says with a grin. Steve's grinning, too. Natasha smirks.