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stuckyevanstanfan · 5 months ago

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Tumblr is annoying...this was supposed to be under a read more and it is glitching...

So I've mentioned stuff in real life is cutting into my internet time. Sometimes I'll write comments in my notes app that I don't end up posting.

I've decided to compile them into one large part to get them out of there and hopefully move on from those feelings. The first bunch were written in April pre-hiatus and the second batch in May after 7x07.

The purpose is to let the thoughts go free so I can feel peace etc. Most of them probably don't apply any longer anyway.

Feel free to ignore this…if you do want to respond they're numbered.

(I actually have no idea if I posted or commented any of these thoughts before…just went through my notes app and copied and pasted the 911 ramblings I did, so sorry if you've seen one before)

1. I don't get this fandom...I see comments saying they haven't made Buddie cracks since season 2, they are so respectful of buddie's relationship, long-form storytelling, etc.

Then comments about how the way Buddie fans act will make them not reward Buddie fans with Buddie and that fans don't deserve it.

This implies they don't respect Buddie or long-form storytelling and they're willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

2. I don't know why people say they'd prefer Buck and Eddie stay friends rather than get together in an unsatisfying way.

I didn't like the way Booth and Bones got together and ended up stopping the show. However I'm still glad to know that they are canon and in love. That's out there in the universe even if I never finished watching their story.

It would have been so upsetting if Bones and Booth hadn't gotten together at all.

Unsatisfying is a matter of perspective.

3. I'm very curious to know if all the tuck fics that feature just Buck/Tommy (no pining Buck or eventual buddie) imply that Buck and Tommy are a for now couple or if they're thinking of marriage and spending their lives together.

I won't read any of them though 😂

4. "Tommy can't replace you. No one can. You're the most important person in the world to be, besides Christopher."

#Buddie wish list

(This was presumably something I wrote when we thought the Tommy Eddie friendship was making Buck worry Tommy would replace him. And I had made a note to add it to my buddie wish list tag. As an aside, Tumblr is useless - I know I've had that tag or even mentioned "wish" on my blog before but when I search the posts don't appear

Anyway..... Now I feel I need reassurance in the opposite direction. Buck needs to make it clear that Christopher and Eddie are his priority over Tommy. This is why I don't understand people who want Buck and Tommy to get married, or write fics where Buck thinks Tommy is the one. Just make it clear you don't care about Christopher&Buck and Eddie&Buck and don't care if their relationship changes. If you're writing him to have the thought about Tommy being the one and he wants to marry him and he's the most important person to him, then he can't have the same thoughts he used to have about Christopher and Eddie.

If Christopher and Tommy are both injured in the hospital asking for him, Buck should choose Christopher.)

I’ve seen posts trying to argue the opposite and how they can all be his priorities and how Tommy loves that Buck loves Chris and Eddie, but they’re not good arguments

5. This is what I need Tim to say if he wants to convince me to drop Buddie:

"I know we said we'd leave it open and we like how you interpret Buck and Eddie, but I don't see them in a romantic sense and they never will be. These two men can love each other completely but have no desire to have sex with each other. Even if one or both is queer, I am writing them to love each other in a way that is not sexual or romantic. You may think they complete each other in a romantic sense, but I think it's in a platonic, familial sense. You can't control who you have that sexual spark with."

If he's not willing to say it, then that means buddie canon to me.

If buddie didn't go canon, then he baited fans. Relationship baiting is extremely annoying and I can't stand showrunners who act like that because they must not respect their fans enough. They care more about money than integrity.

I'd also be willing to accept this:

“I'm really sorry for stringing you all along, but buddie is not something I'll be writing. I know I put in so many parallels to the other canon couples, and that was a dumb thing for me to do when I never intended to make them a canon couple. I realize now that there were other ways I could have written their friendship not to come across as romantic at times. I'm owning that mistake, and moving forward I will not try to bait you into thinking buddie will ever be canon.”

6. Did they ever address Tommy talking about sleeping with grateful victims??

No one is willing to talk about it.

I've even tried using tumblr's search function to find posts about it but there is nothing (I’m not sure if people aren't talking about it or if tumblr's search function is that bad)

7. I always thought they'd be able to make Buck and Eddie get together while still feeling like Buck and Eddie, but something is off

The gifs I saw of 7x04 seemed OOC

8. I know we're getting buddie eventually, not from anything we've seen in the episode (because I haven't seen it - this was about 7x04), but because of Tim's quote in this interview:

Minear much preferred having Buck go through this experience with someone the audience already knew, rather than having to “invent some bi character for Buck to have an awakening with.” Fortunately for Minear, when he finally got them together, “they had chemistry!”

And it isn’t lost on Minear that Buck’s dynamic with Tommy echoes the one he once had with Eddie, calling it “almost a reprise of the dynamic from [Eddie]’s first episode where Buck was super jealous of the new guy. Now he’s jealous for a different reason.”

Tim would not be dumb enough to talk about the bucktommy situation echoing what happened with Eddie if it wouldn't eventually lead to Eddie.

If he wanted bucktommy to be a valid relationship on its own, he wouldn't piggyback off what happened with buddie and expect it to work.

9. Why did they have to make Buck and Eddie into pod people? There were better ways to do this storyline than turning thirty something year old men into fanfic teenagers

10. Honestly at this point with some of the sexual posts I'm seeing about bucktommy, I'm expecting those former buddie stans to say that Tommy will be the best sex Buck ever has and that Eddie will be a step down that he'll have to settle for just because he loves him, but he'll always dream of Tommy and hope for a threesome to have a proper dicking down again because Eddie can't find his prostate 🙄

I have no idea why fandom is gassing up an average white dude, none at all

[adding on: I ended up blocking tags during the hiatus so I haven’t seen anything since then and I’m not sure if this is still the case]

11.I know people are enthusiastic about Buck's first kiss with a man, but imagine if it were Eddie - wouldn't it be a disappointing kiss after all this time? It would be like the feeling after that pirate show kiss

12. Buck, who screams out "Eddie! Eddie! Eddie!" every time Eddie gets hurt or is in danger - that Buck, injuring Eddie and having no reaction? Illogical.

13. People can like the bi Buck storyline without needing to become a bucktommy shipper. People offline do it all the time: watch a show and like it and not become shippers.

14. Buck has been turning down Eddie’s invitations to basketball for a while??? What?? Since when?? Why does that not sound like Buck?

And then the show expects me to believe he has a crush on Tommy so he finally goes when it's not just Eddie but Tommy will be there?

(Apparently some thought it was because he wanted Eddie's attention but someone pointed out he stared at Tommy the whole time?)

Why are they writing Buck to be so annoying just to reach bi Buck?

It feels like they're changing Buck and Eddie's friendship and even minimizing it

15. What are the best buddie scenes and why are they

The shooting

The will

Buck falling asleep on Eddie’s couch

Some of 6x13

16. What were the buddie friendship moments in 7x04 since everyone liked them so much? It seems there were Buck/Tommy and Eddie/Tommy moments but I haven't heard anything good about buddie

I just heard about the 7x05 scene about Buck wanting to help Eddie, but no one was talking about that when the episode aired. So I feel like there were possibly other moments no one decided to talk about.

17. In what characterization of Eddie would he have Marisol watch Christopher twice in one week to hang out with Tommy instead, then ask Buck for a third time? I really don't get it.

18. Kristen introduced Marisol

Tim implied it wasn't a good job since he knew nothing about her

Tim wants this storyline to get to know her since he didn't know her

Yet Kristen had the nun idea?

He threw Kristen under the bus for not introducing her then decides to take her bad ideas?

19. I believe buddie is happening because I like believing the best in people. Based on various comments Tim has made and the way so many scenes have been written (jumping ship, wanting to help, etc.), he would either have to be dumb or cruel if it doesn't lead to buddie. Dumb if all of those insinuations and winks and nudges mean nothing, and cruel if he is doing them deliberately but it doesn't lead to buddie.

Why would I want to think that he is dumb or cruel?

-> within a day of writing this, I ended up seeing a post that basically said that Tim is cruel enough to do this… I don't understand why people want to think that Tim is gleefully cackling at stringing fans along 🤷🏻‍♀️

20. It's so interesting how both sides think the other is fetishizing:

Bucktommy fans think the other side just cares about a noncanon ship and should support the actual queer couple

Buddie fans think the other side just wants Buck to kiss a man, any man, and don't care who it is

21. So... Controversial opinion... Buck fans don't seem to understand Eddie, Eddie fans don't seem to understand Buck, and buddie fans don't understand either

I say this as a self-owning buddie fan: there are so many things I feel are out of character, but they happen on the show, so the show clearly thinks they're in character, meaning I don't understand their characterization

Those were the initial batch of thoughts I had in April. Here are some May thoughts:

22. Hey, so at least Buck and Eddie are both cheaters 🤷‍♀️

23. Anti-buddies were right but got the reason all wrong... they said Buck and Eddie won't get together because they're both in other relationships and wouldn't cheat....

But Eddie ended up cheating anyway 🤷‍♀️

I assume the Bommy fans are ecstatic whereas the Medisol/Eddisol and Eddie fans are upset

In a way I guess this is more proof for buddie though, since Eddie can't end up with either Marisol or Kim after what happened. Both those relationships are tainted so he needs a new one

24. I know it's supposed to be about the journey as well as the destination, but the journey to Buddie has been horrible so far.

People who said "Just enjoy the journey on the way to buddie" - how is this Eddie storyline enjoyable??

I really hope the payoff is worth it and not fizzle out like so many other storylines on this show

25.If buddie doesn't happen, how do you fumble such an incredible story? It's honestly like a train wreck.

26. I’m confused about what bommy fans think about the name for Tommy/Thomas. Earlier they thought it was Thomas and how it was all red string of fate because of the old man Thomas telling Buck not to find it but to make it. Then fans were happy the plaque said Tommy. What made people want Thomas and now want Tommy? It seems very inconsistent. And then out loud they said his name was actually Thomas?

27. The way people talk about Tim really makes me think buddie will happen because people seem to think he cares more about his reputation and what people think of him. He wouldn't want to be known as the showrunner who fumbled this.

28. Eddie may have been the misdirection/bait and switch (whatever people are calling it) for 7x04, but Tommy will end up being the misdirection on the eventual Buck/Eddie relationship

#random buddie thoughts from the past few months when I wasn't online #some negativity and some positivity #911 on abc

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mimetic-mice · 1 year ago

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i am experiencing something very strange as a result of spending all day doing research. 8 hours a day reading books and being alone, more or less, with my mind. for as long as i can remember, i’ve felt like someone going through the world with someone else, or more aptly, rather than view myself as an individual, i was part of a group, a pair, a team.

this isn’t to say I *wasn’t* an individual amongst these people, or that they weren’t appreciating and loving me for who i was, just that i felt unburdened from self-perception or any of the pressures that come with viewing oneself as, well, singular. I didn’t have to be ‘me’, i could just Experience the world. the closest i could get of a self-image was looking at, essentially, the negative space-- that empty space which i supposed i must be standing in, that space that experienced everything i was seeing and doing, that space where i knew something existed that my friends understood and loved (because i could feel that understanding and that love)

going into college was scary, because i was now far away from my people-- i no longer had teammates, and my queer found family was no longer physically in the same place. and my reliance on other people to define who i was became, i realized, unreliable. when some of my first friendships in college fell through, i think one of the reasons it destabilized me so much was because i’d comfortably began to define myself through my relationship with them, which i could no longer do when their perception of me became negative. even amongst my later good friendships, i felt some level of idiosyncrasy with my ability to identify myself solely through these relationships; even as i felt properly loved and understood, their perception of me was based only on the Me they’d known so far, unlike my friendships in high school who’d not only been friends with me for many years, but had known me and lived in the same place as me for many years before we’d become friends. existing like this, i did not emerge as an individual but rather remained unstable and unsure how to see myself. i tried to turn towards and find some central concept of ‘Self’ but could not. eventually, by the time last summer came around, i’d felt an absolute relief at finding something of a Pack again. i was with a small group of classmates every day for hours at a time, and being part of a Group relieved the burden of being an individual. likewise, every weekend i saw the same two friends, and learned to feel absolutely at ease with them. i could filter my thoughts through sharing them with them and experiencing the world with them. Once again, I wasn’t “me”, I was “us”. being amongst these people, however, also gave me the stability to develop a new kind of individual identity: i was coming out as trans for the first time. and in doing so, for the first time, i think i began accessing a version of myself that i could comprehend. fast forward a year, this summer i’m spending hours a day... alone. more time alone than i’ve ever had. i’m working on getting friends together to parallel work so i don’t feel quite so. wah. but in the meantime i’m sitting in coffee shops reading books. reading always makes me feel the most. grounded? written words make my thoughts feel tangible and comprehensible in a way they usually Aren’t.

and perhaps because of all that time alone, this weekend, when i went to a party, i had the strangest realization. for context, i was only close friends with one person there (the host). although I knew and was maybe starting to become friends with one or two people there, it was a crowd that was nonetheless very new and exciting to me. the first realization was that part of me felt an intense loneliness. i wanted the people that I Experience Life with to be with me and experiencing it with me. I wanted a group that was ‘us’, who knew the way i think just how i know the way they think, to interpret and experience all these interesting new people with me. Besides the host of the party, none of my friends even knew where i was-- no one waiting for me at my apartment, no one was wondering about what i was up to. no one was going to text me to ask what i was thinking or feeling in this moment. it was just me, experiencing it by myself. the second realization was that, although i felt some kind of abject terror at acting as an individual, the truth was, i understood precisely who i was and felt comfortable interacting with these people as someone Seperate from their groups. I had a wonderful time. people seemed to like me-- i infodumped and i talked loudly, and amongst a group of trans autistic people this seemed to go over quite well, two of them texting me the next day to say it was nice meeting me and that we should hang out again sometime. from these two experiences, i was first struck with a kind of fear. was this life now? now that i was burdened with myself as an individual, was i always to feel... seperate from people. like a separate entity reacting and being reacted to by others, rather than a piece of a puzzle in a group all experiencing the same thing together from a shared vantage point. of course, this is utterly silly. the people i Experience Life with, many of whom follow me here (hi friends reading this lmao), still know me in a way i can let my guard down around them, experience ‘us’ around them, not worry about codifying Who I Am around them and just kind of Chill.

But even keeping that, i suppose i am tentatively gaining that strange ‘sense of selfhood’ i’ve always heard people talking about. it’s become easier to talk to those people whom are not and will not become One of My People. i am still riddled with social anxiety and woe, but i am often able to interact with strangers or aquantances now where i feel they see me for who i am. in high school, if i felt admired by a stranger i often felt, accurately or not, that it was due to my ability to conform to the system or ‘play the game’, so to speak-- for being a Good Student, maybe. compliments on my appearance were muddled by the fact that i was, in hindsight, Not Cis and that many of the ‘compliments’ were expressed as girls envying my body. but now when strangers make me feel cool or admired, it feels directly correlated to well... me. my hobbies. my interests. my point of view. my style. my... self. I don’t know. i’m not quite sure where i was going with this post other than to say i’ve felt lonely recently, but that’s okay, because i think it’s the kind of lonliness that leads to connection. that will allow me to push through some discomfort and try to reach out for closer friendships

#tuesday

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triflesandparsnips · 2 years ago

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A brief follow-up re: this shit right here

Am I using another gif of the exact same scene just so I can watch it again from a slightly different artistic perspective? Yes, absolutely.

Since posting my feral feels regarding this scene in OFMD, I've seen rather a lot of reactions, and to be absolutely clear holy shit I love everyone in this bar & grill.

I would like to break down the reactions, though, and provide some additional commentary because it turns out I have EVEN MORE FEELINGS.

1. "My heart, my eyes, I'm screaming, I'm gnawing wood" and variations thereof

Amazing, no notes.

2. "Now that Stede knows he loves Ed, his Game will become Too Powerful"

I feel it's important to state that the beauty of this moment is only possible because

"On-Purpose Queer-Coded Language To Identify Each Other Safely"

and

"I'm Gonna Be Real Careful With My Wording Because I Like Pretty Things But I Don't Need Broken Ribs Today"

are often indistinguishable in the moment. To Ed? Stede has just done an elegant bit of coded communication. (THERE WAS A HANKY FOR FUCKS' SAKE.) It's part of why he goes in for a kiss-- and then promptly does a quick slide into a homosocially acceptable bro-punch when Stede doesn't immediately lean in too. Ed's still doing safety checks, and he'll continue doing them for several more episodes, but he's definitely added at least one tick mark -- possibly the first tick mark -- in his mental "does Stede do ~dalliances" tally sheet.

To Stede, though? He got to Be Himself and he did it Right so Hooray he didn't get his Face Caved In. While my dude needs to take some time to consider why it's so important to him that he Be Himself around This Particular Guy in This Particular Way, he is definitely not reading from the same set of notes as Ed. His mental tally sheet? Is still labeled "is this a Friend y/n." Because in Stede's past even trying to form friendships ended up with verbal abuse and weirdly sexualized violence so, like, Stede has a VERY different starting point than Ed on this one.

(And tbh, I think @kohlrabisabi's reply to the original post really hits a lot of this well. Stede is absolutely just… doing an extension of his own learned "safe" behavior and it HAPPENS to correspond with what Ed "knows" safe behavior like that "means." From a queer narrative point of view it doesn't particularly matter that Stede does in fact turn out to be in love with Ed-- he still betrayed the shared language that was supposed to finally make it safe for Ed to believe there was an Understanding between them, and therefore the fact that Stede didn't show up at the dock isn't just heartbreaking, it's an actively traumatic experience for Ed as a queer man.)

(The flip side of this is that it's not particularly fair of Ed to depend entirely on The Secret Code of Gay to interpret Stede's full thoughts on this extremely life altering situation, and perhaps spending five goddamn minutes just talking openly and making sure everyone's on the same page would've saved us all a lot of toes, okay.)

ALL THIS TO SAY: Lol no, if Stede tries to woo Ed now, it's going to be awkward straight-guy courtship outta manuals because that's what he thinks you're supposed to do, it'll be amazingly awful and I cannot fucking wait. We'll only see our slow and coded queer seduction vibes when Stede is, once again, trying not to get stabbed by Blackbeard.

3. "How does a television show do this, how is All This Meaning done by thirty people in a clown car driven by HBO"

The queer experience is nonetheless the human experience; we've been humans for a long time and our stories tend to repeat a lot. Also, all art is collaborative, and the audience is doing the bulk of the heavy lifting when engaging with any work of art -- therefore it's not thirty people in a clown car, it's millions of people collectively recognizing a shared/lived experience as accurate within our own contexts and imbuing it with yet further meaning because our ability to do so has neither directly nor indirectly been contradicted by the narrative.

tl;dr: Magic.

#in hanky code yes Stede is theoretically telling Ed he wants to get fistfucked super hard if Ed is also into that thanks #I realize that's a little unfair to leave in the tags #but oh no guess you'll have to write a fic about it to punish me #oh nooooo #not that #our flag means death #ofmd #meta #stede bonnet #edward teach #ed teach #queer narratives #moonlight scene #homophobia #and all the traumas that come from living in a homophobic world

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gettin-bi-bi-bi · 3 years ago

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What do you think of the idea a that everyone is little bi ?

There’s a study they say that straight women are more attracted to women than they are into men when they showed them erotic pictures of women, I’ve read comments saying that everyone is bi or somehow bi …. These type is studies gives by more fear of being fake and gives me extra fears about being straight because when of things I went through when I was a kid is being attracted to women who are in kind of erotic pictures , I know that I am into women and would want to have gf but I just feel anxious about this that if everyone attracted to women ( and straight women are more attracted to women that men ) then I worry it would be hard to know about sexuality

Same anon : also the idea that straight women are more into men than women makes me think about bisexual women who likes men more, it feels like telling them straight women are more sapphic than you.. maybe it’s my head ??

Hello anon,

you should take those kinds of studies with a grain of salt. Not to be anti-science here, I think it's great and important to research human sexuality. It's also very interesting. But when someone says they are measuring "attraction" I get genuinely skeptical how they are supposed to measure that. It's either gonna be by asking the research subject how they feel or they can measure physical responses to different stimuli. What they are measuring by showing sexy pictures to people isn't attraction but just physical signs of sexual arousal. And there is a difference because almost everyone will react physically when shown pornographic material - even if that doesn't align with the gender(s) they are attracted to OR the sexual practices they enjoy. Straight men will often also have a sexual arousal response in studies like that when shown male-on-male porn. A lot of people watch types of porn and get aroused by sexual acts in porn that they would never actually like to do in real life.

Are there some "straight" people who don't realise that they actually have homoerotic desires? Sure. And I hope one day bisexuality will be so accepted that they feel more comfortable exploring that. But also it is still up to each individual to define their own sexuality so those scientific studies cannot change anyone's sexuality or reliably reveal "the truth". If a woman has arousal responses to being show pornographic material of other women that's one thing - basically a physical reflex and not totally voluntary. But the other thing is what she actually wants to do in real life. If she has no desire to actually fuck a woman then she's probably not actually sexually attracted to women. Or she is a closeted queer, of course that's a possibility and hopefully she'll realise that one day. And also if some women in these studies have shown stronger arousal when shown women instead of men, then maybe the men were just not their type. Like, I am bisexual and still there are types of men that would literally do NOTHING for me, especially if those studies use "conventionally attractive" men that wouldn't really get me hot and bothered at all (meanwhile I am very much attracted to other kinds of men). You see, those studies cannot look into someone's brain and they cannot accurately show someone's individual understanding of their own sexual desires. They can only document bodily reactions.

Don't let any of these "scientific" studies (I put it in quotation marks because some of the ones I've seen didn't even live up to proper scientific standards) determine your own sexuality and the way you understand and interprete your own feelings of desire, attraction and arousal.

Personally I also think that "everyone is a little bit bi" isn't a helpful statement for anyone. It's true that there are more bisexuals than most people think - because we are so invisible and because many people don't even realise that the label could apply to them. But it is a reality that a lot of people are monosexual = exclusively attracted to one gender. And some people are asexual = not attracted to any gender. Saying that "everyone is a bit bi" invalidates those people AND it's also a shitty thing to say to bisexuals. It downplays our struggles and the dificulties of coming-out as a bisexual when someone responds with "well, everyone is, you're not special".

To wrap this all up: you are what you want to be. You want to be bi? You like the idea of identifying as bi? You recognise that you have the potential to be attracted to more than one gender? Congrats! You can call yourself bisexual. You are the only person who has the authority to decide that for yourself, no scientific study can change any of that.

Maddie

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love-n-pirates · 4 years ago

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The Harm of Accusing DNF of Queerbaiting + Ignoring The Issue

I like to keep the stuff on this blog lighthearted and jokey and I like to just reblog art but I did wanna make another post about the kaceytron issue but specifically the accusations of queerbaiting. This is gonna be a long post so sorry about that but this stream made me really mad and I’ve put a lot of time into gathering my thoughts and reviewing the VOD again to ensure my citations and interpretations are accurate.

TW for mentions of homophobia and ableism and please remember no matter how mad this might make you as well. Don’t send any hate. Best thing to do is unfollow, block and move on, she’s already had enough of a stage to perform on.

I’ve sectioned the post into summary and thoughts with pictures in case you only want to briefly look but I tried to be cohesive enough without going on too long so hopefully you’ll give the whole thing a read. Particularly a part I wrote at the end about her using Dream as a scapegoat (titled such) I just think it’s important to keep in mind. I watched this shit a second time so you don’t have to! It wrecked my head but I’m unhappy with how they spoke about queerbaiting, which is a serious issue in media, and wanted to talk openly about it here.

At first I did feel bad for her and thought that some of it was blown out of proportion, things that she could learn and grow from but ultimately she showed no remorse and after how she handled speaking with Dream and the immature nature of the whole ordeal I can’t feel entirely awful for her anymore.

This is the tweet that started it all. Kacey is in a very similar circle to Dream and George so it makes sense that Dream stans would find it. Ignoring the sort of humour behind the fact that so many assumed it was about them, it is a shitty tweet and seems kind of irrelevant. Ironically enough, she was getting called out moments later as stans brought up prior racist, ableist and homophobic issues with Kacey. Cancelled for a little more than breathing it seems.

One thing I wish had been asked from the get go was “Who is this tweet supposed to be about?” Kacey said it wasn’t even about them and that people were assuming incorrectly. She could’ve saved herself from the wrath of all the mc stans that came her way if she just said who it was really about. But she didn’t, which indicates to me that it definitely was about them. Not a great statement to make as a cishet woman, unprompted, especially when your influence often intertwines with theirs and when you share mutuals.

I did speak about queerbaiting before in reference to George just a couple posts down but it's blown up massively recently and I wanted to get detailed in a more general sense while using this event as a sort of case study.

For clarification I am a queer woman so I've had my fair run ins with queerbaity content etc. This is gonna be a detailed rundown of what was said with my own thoughts on it and some time stamps are included if you feel the need to see for yourself.

TL;DR

Dream and George are not the malicious straight boys they’re being made out to be. Saying they’re Queerbaiting is a disregard for their own emotional autonomy and they have been open with the fact they do not date nor do they use it for views. This argument is being used to shift focus from the important conversation which is Kaceytron’s use of slurs and arose from a stream that was made about Dream and forced him to be involved. She’s doing it for attention and should be ignored.

WHAT IS QUEERBAITING?

First of all, queer baiting is defined as "a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation."

Technically twitch streams do fall under entertainment although I would argue that there is a certain nuance to this. We know that streamers often put on a certain persona when streaming (Tommy and Quackity are very loud in their own streams because that's their brand, then on their alts they are very laidback) but I would say that Dream and George are two streamers that are often just themselves while streaming. Particularly when they are together, it makes sense that a stream has a change in vibe when the cc is talking with a friend rather than focusing on talking to chat. Since these two usually only stream when they're with friends, we tend to see a more authentic side. We very much feel that they are real people showing their casual side. Their streams do not feel performative, this is part of their appeal.

Don’t forget that Kacey, a cishet woman, puts her streams under the LGBTQIA+ tag on Twitch. A tag only usually used if the streamer is LGBT.

SUMMARY OF EVENTS IN THE STREAM

Now, the stream. During the stream Kacey had her sister and two friends(both gay men, important for a later point) to back her up. Dream joined at about 3hr and 55 mins and already there was a distinct power imbalance in Kacey’s favour within the call. They titled it a debate yet it felt more like relentless high school bullying. They spoke for about an hour and the entire time, Kacey’s chat was spamming for her to ask about queerbaiting. Finally, one of her friends, Shaun, brought it up at about the 4hr and 43min mark.

Now, the reason I have a few issues with this is that it seems to me that he doesn’t really know what he’s talking about. You can see on his stream(in the background of Kacey’s) at one point that he has a massive text post from tumblr up that is accusing Dream of queerbaiting, saying that he gets to benefit from maintaining a queer audience but without the issues that come with being a gay man as he prefers to keep it ambiguous. That text post is super problematic, a creator is not there for your wish fulfillment or to be your idol. Also, there is a lot of assumption coming with saying he isn’t ostracized just because he doesn’t label himself. Instantly it’s clear that this post is the basis for the accusations that Shaun is making. I’m using accusation lightly here because over all I think the Shaun guy was very civil, (at least to Dream’s face) but the rest of the group were quite on the attack, particularly Kacey’s sister, Holly. (I’ll come back to her)

Shaun says that he feels that Dream and George, possibly unintentionally, are guilty of queerbaiting. Dream handled it well and said he would like to open that dialogue and asked Shaun to expand on what he means by queerbaiting and if he has any specific events that would be prevalent. Shaun says he has examples that he can pull up, which he never does, and continues to be very vague and general about it in saying that there’s been a “culture” going on for years that he’s noticed.

At this point, the other guy (I didn’t catch his name, sorry) jumps in and says there's a “clear flirtiness in attitude and undertones” which Dream agrees to. He points out that this is how he interacts with most friends, male and female, on the Dream SMP. He also points out that he acts like that with his friends both on and off camera and it’s not like he’s only approaching gay men and flirting with them. It’s clear that this line of joking is a constant in his friendships, where comfortable, and is never malicious. He even asks what their thoughts would be if he only did it with gay men and how that would differ, they don’t answer this question and the conversation moves on.

At the 4hr 46min mark is where Holly jumps in and tells of VERY personal experiences from Shaun’s past of him being tormented by straight guys in school, being called slurs and jokingly flirted with. She even tells a story about how a homophobe hit him with their car. This was very uncomfortable as it was not her experience to share and Shaun was IN THE CALL. She said that Dream’s flirtations with George could be a trigger to people like Shaun because of that experience. This shows again a lack of awareness for other people, she’s using Shaun's personal story for her own gain and not even letting him be the voice that tells it. This sat poorly with me as Kacey was already being accused of speaking over LGBT voices rather than lifting them up with her, then her sister goes and does it live. Maybe Shaun was ok with this, maybe not, it just didn’t sit well with me. At 5hr and 05mins, after Dream is gone, they mention this again and Shaun asks them to point out when he said he was triggered after he talked about his experience. He was clearly uncomfortable with the use of the word and it seems to have been put in his mouth.

Shaun then says that he doesn’t like it because here are Dream and George exhibiting behaviours that some people are often scared to do because of homophobic violence. To me, this was probably one of the only valid sort of feelings against it (Shame he wasn’t let speak more). I understand why someone might look at it that way, but at the same time there is a clear difference between messing with your friends and real life romantic flirtation. In my own personal life I know that I’ve been afraid of any sort of pda with a partner but when it comes to my own joke flirting with friends, I’m never afraid to do it. This can differ from person to person and maybe is very different for gay men but this is my own gay experience as someone who understands that fear. I think that the line is fairly clear between the real and the jokes and I honestly have no doubt that Dream and George have probably had people throw homophobic language their way but it may not have had to same effect as they don’t present themselves as homosexual.

Worth noting that during this exchange Dream does say in passing he’s straight but it’s said in a hypothetical sort of way which leaves it unclear and he’s stated before that he doesn’t like labels and he wants to keep it ambiguous so it would be more respectful to continue thinking of him as such. Ambiguous is the way he chooses to present his sexuality and this should be accepted by everyone instead of making assumptions that he is straight. He was under pressure from four other adults to explain himself and handle accusations, anyone would say they were straight if they were being pushed like that and felt it wasn’t a safe environment. Which it definitely wasn’t and I advise that anyone who does want to watch back the VOD to turn off chat because they’re extremely toxic.

Holly proceeds to say that this makes gay people the butt of the joke, Dream says that he sees it more as the flirting with his friends as the joke, again, I’d agree with him. Depends on your humour I suppose, but arguably, anyone who watches Kacey interact on egirl rejects and stuff like that will see she often makes flirty jokes with Minx and other female friends, for some reason this isn’t seen as queerbaiting, but it’s unfortunately not brought up. I can understand why, Dream wasn’t trying to make any accusations in return, he was legitimately trying to have an earnest conversation which quickly went sour.

Holly goes on to explain how Shaun feels, by speaking over Shaun, and asks Dream what he thinks about that. Dream agrees that Shaun’s feelings are valid and says “That’s why I started this off by saying ‘lets talk about this’“. Holly gets extremely patronizing and asks if he understands it now that it’s been explained.

Dream is still very patient with them and agrees that he’s said things and learnt from mistakes and criticism that he’s received. He speaks honestly about his original cancelling and how he handled it poorly but learnt from that and has grown to be more careful and thoughtful with the things he says.

I have a real issue with this again because words are continuously put in his mouth. He’s asked several times throughout the whole call to denounce things, from people hating on Kacey to actual MASS SHOOTERS. He’s barely given space to defend himself and is ignored when he tries to say that he can’t control his fans. They just ask him time and time again to denounce multiple things.

The only time where Dream seems actually riled up by anything they say is when Holly, at the 4hr 11min mark, mentions the hashtag “Shooters4Dream” trending and says its Dream stans promoting gun violence (which was just a handful of idiots being insensitive under the tag). Dream responds to this with his classic “Oh come on” but before he can say anything else, Kacey does talk over him and says that the tag was mostly people denouncing it and tries to change the subject, but Dream brings it back and says that the tag was stupid and wrong. Holly and Kacey talk about how people were making jokes about it and Holly asks “Is it funny to you? Because your community think it is.” She’s playing such an abrasive blame game with him and he talks about how he spoke against it on twitter, they discount him, and Holly can be seen laughing at him. When Dream tries to explain the issue properly and Kacey just says, “Lets skip this, let's move on.” Dream points out that it is bad that the tag was trending, but he didn’t want to speak about it too much otherwise it would become a bigger thing. Ultimately, he doesn’t control his fans and the meaning of the tag was misconstrued massively. A matter of poor use of language and appalling timing.

Love or Host

Love or Host is brought up a few times as an example of him flirting with George which I found interesting as he’s only been in one episode (George’s) and he was talking mostly to the girls on the show to figure out who is good for George, as that was his role. During this there was joking about how he should come before the girl and even female guests joined this line of joking. This is all part of the show and most played along with the bit, it’s not an uncommon bit for guests on the show to do. Not just Dream and George, but other guests in their respective episodes.

I also find the mentioning of Love or Host interesting purely because, if anything, it’s the exact type of content that Kacey should hate, right? False relationships being formed? It’s not like there’s only straight people on the show as well, there’s been gay and bi love or hosts so queerbaiting, under the parameters which Kaceytron has set, is on the table. I’ve yet to see a real romantic relationship come out of an episode of LoH. This is a show purely for content and Kacey knows this, she’s appeared on multiple shows and even won Sapnap’s episode. She knows their date wasn’t real. Her sister says that many women are afraid to be on LoH because of hate they receive in the aftermath of the show and she claims it’s running its course because of this. I’d have to disagree with this (it’s a super successful show cmon) and, though a lot of people do get hate on the show, I think it’s often outweighed by the benefits they get from that type of exposure which is why people like Kacey continue to appear on multiple episodes.

What I found most interesting was what she said about her appearance on George’s episode. Mostly jokes were made about this costume:

admittedly, it was kind of funny albeit rather creepy. However, if Kacey felt so strongly about Queerbaiting, why would she dress like that. Why wasn’t she a passionate advocate then? Where’d the sudden fire come from? I think we all know the answers to these questions.

In response to people bringing up how she pandered by using this costume, making her a hypocrite, she said that in dressing like that she knew she was appealing to children. Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t know many kids that want to sit through a four hour long dating show filled with adults they don’t know and stuff they don’t understand. I don’t think the Austin Show’s demographic contains an awful lot of kids, no matter who the guest on the show is. Also, the point of the show is not to appeal to the audience per se, but to the person whose episode it is. It felt like a weak excuse and another chance to try take a dig at mc stans for being younger and trying to brand them as immature.

INITIAL AFTER THOUGHTS

As I said before, creators do not owe you anything, especially not a window into their personal lives. We’re lucky that Dream shares so much and is a very open person, you don’t need to pry any more than that. When you get upset about him queerbaiting you, what you say to me is that you don’t see him as a person. It’s a level of objectification that leaves me feeling uneasy, if you feel robbed of something because of this then you need to set your priorities straight.

As Dream said in the stream, he hasn’t misled anyone. He has specified that him and George are not dating nor do they plan to (I included a SS at the end of this as well where he states this again). If he were queerbaiting then he would title his videos as though George was his boyfriend, he doesn’t do this. He makes it clear that they are friends, their chemistry is never used as a marketing device or as the main attraction of a video.

Many pointed out the hypocrisy of Kacey’s claims. Some pointing to her own channel where she has a playlist of 16 videos titled “gay videos”

These are just a few of the videos. Within one of these videos, titled “The F Word”, she complains about reclamation of slurs and repeatedly says the r slur. She shows no remorse for saying slurs and this is part of why it’s difficult to forgive her.

I don’t even know what to say about this video. This is extremely offensive, even if the people involved agreed to it, it doesn’t mean it's not offensive to other gay people. This clip features her sister and Shaun, who were on the call, kissing while clearly intoxicated. The narrative that gay people can be ”turned straight” is extremely harmful and is an unfortunate reality that many LGBT people are forced through. In the call with Dream, they mention how maybe some gay people are fine with Dream and George’s flirting but people like Shaun weren’t and so they should be more respectful. When it comes to a video, like the one I’ve shown above, you’d think they would follow the same thought process. This is far more offensive and harmful to the LGBT community than any harmless flirting between friends. The hypocrisy is blatant.

Sometimes streamers are tricked into saying slurs by donos etc. but instead of saying sorry I didn’t mean it and here’s what happened, Kacey tends to jump on the defensive. Dream said to her around when he first joined the call that he understood how difficult her position was because when he was first cancelled he felt like it was very unfair. He told her that even if you don’t think you’re wrong you can’t control how other people feel and you have to acknowledge that. He did mention how he handled his cancelling badly (something he still gets shit for today despite the fact he learnt from his mistakes) and that instead of getting upset about it now, he knows you should just take accountability and move on. Kacey doesn’t register this and goes on about how terrible it is for her.

MISOGYNY AND AGE DEMOGRAPHIC

Part of me wonders if the reason she continues to fight with mc stans is because she knows she can just call them stupid kids and call it a day. This is interesting to me as I think I’ve seen more 15-24 year olds in this group rather than young children. Maybe this is just the content I’m looking through but I actually think that her demographic is more similar to Dream’s than she thinks. It’s just easier to write them off as snot-nosed minecraft playing children. This is a theme she sticks with as she makes half-assed jokes about bedtimes and parents etc. etc. It’s boring.

Also, despite the accusations at Dream, calling him a misogynist, it actually was both Kacey and Holly who came in with the sexist narrative as they go on about how his fans are just teenage white girls. This is a clear double standard as they are trying to use both age and gender to discount the validity of their feelings.

For someone who says she doesn’t care, it sure is interesting that she’s tweeted constantly about it and streamed for hours at a time. The stream with Dream was seven hours long. She blames the fact that she accidently read a slur out on stream on her lack of sleep. As a creator, you should know your limits and when you are and aren’t emotionally ready to be on camera. Kacey clearly does not know her limits and it effects her greatly. On the first watch I skipped forward in the VOD to the six hour mark and found she was still chatting shit about Dream with her sister while playing Roblox.

Ironic that she goes on about stupid minecraft kids while being a 30 y/o woman playing Roblox. Nothing wrong with playing stuff at whatever age but not when you’re ragging on kids for the same thing.

USING THE GAY NARRATIVE

I finally wanted to come back to the use of her two gay friends in the so called “debate”. At 6hr and 08mins she reads out a message in either chat or from twitter.

“Listen up here cishet woman, you are cishet, shut your mouth and do not talk about queerbaiting ever again, ok?”

I don’t think people should bother going to her chat to say this stuff because it only fans the flames and will not change her mind but it’s what she said after that left me thinking that she knew exactly what she was doing when she included two gay men in the narrative on her side. She says

“That’s why there were two gay people on the show who talked about queerbaiting and how it’s offensive to them. Are they trying to speak over gay voices? Like, who are they playing?”

I find it difficult to consider this a valid point as they quite literally spoke over said gay people themselves and as I mentioned, it was pressure from Shaun’s chat that made him bring it up when it was clear he wasn’t educated on the specifics of who he was speaking with. It all felt very false and like a set up to try catch Dream out. They were essentially there for the clout they get for being plants for Kacey as long as they go along with the narrative she was pushing. They seemed dispassionate about the topic and were more interested in drama. It makes them unconvincing debators.

KACEY’S CHAT AND ABLEISM

I could barely look at the chat the whole time because they were very toxic and some even used slurs in there. Kacey claims to have created a safe space for people, particularly LGBTQ people, yet from what I saw, it was only really a safe space for bigotry and toxicity. These are just some screenshots that I took during the call.

Blatant ableism in the first one, maybe they didn’t know about his ADHD, but this was one of many and even Kacey and her sister made fun of it when he was out of the call.

Gaslighting is a serious accusation. The definition is this: “Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where a person or group makes someone question their sanity, perception of reality, or memories. People experiencing gaslighting often feel confused, anxious, and unable to trust themselves.”

This does not apply to Kacey; she is not questioning her sanity or being confused. She’s outright denying things. There is no gaslighting going on here, yet the chat was FILLED with it. Bitches will learn a new word like gaslighting and queerbaiting and really use it for everything oof.

Not once did he invalidate the fact that there is misogyny in the community and if anything he has expressly supported female creators very vocally and without being asked to. Writing off anything he says just because he’s a white man is not even an argument; he accepts the privilege he has and has never claimed that others don’t experience issues because of these things. This is not a misogynistic attack, this is a grown woman being asked to own up and apologize for her mistakes.

Chat continued to be extremely toxic towards Dream and even people in game with Kacey made multiple jokes about him. Here’s an example of just one.

It says ”What I wear omw to dream’s court hearing.”

They say a lot of horrible things about him and Holly even makes implications of him being inappropriate with fans which is an extremely serious thing to say and is based in NO truth.

SHIFTING FOCUS

Right before Dream left, they reiterated that they didn’t think he was a bad person because of his “queerbaiting”. This was something repeated many times throughout the talk. The implications of this language use is that Dream should be the one apologizing and that Kacey and her friends somehow were the ones with the power to forgive him. Overall, it was misguided and gross. He shouldn’t have had to be defending himself from four people at once all by himself, especially when the conversation was not supposed to be about him. And to clarify, he did not make it about himself, he started by talking about Kacey and how he had been trying to dm her about her cancelling. It was them that turned it on him to flip it in their favour.

There was an insistence that they were the victims, direct quote from Kacey at 5hr 55min and 40sec Kacey says “I am a victim, I am literally a victim of cancel culture.”

Yes, I think the doxxing is too far and constant hate doesn’t do much but Kacey needs to acknowledge that her words hurt a lot of people and she needs to own up to that.

Even after Dream left, they continued to chat shit about him, with Shaun even saying at about the 5hr 16min mark that he thought Dream had “perfectly scripted” his responses in a way that meant he wouldn’t have to denounce his fans. Of course he won’t talk crap on his fans when they’re the reason he is famous and he knows it’s a minority that ruins it for everyone else, he’s said he doesn’t like people who spread hate calling themselves his stans. The idea that Dream could have prepared a response to the questions and accusations thrown at him from a cast of half high and fully ignorant strangers who are all almost 10 years older than him is ridiculous. He was clearly out of his comfort zone and was a complete curveball for him. This leads me on to the main reason I think Dream was dragged into this.

SCAPEGOAT

If we’re being real, this is a clear attempt to change the subject away from Kacey. Dream is someone who people come for often, whether it’s accusations of cheating or scripting or bringing up past mistakes which he has apologized for and showed that he has grown from. He even said to Kacey that he does get death threats and he’s been doxxed before. He constantly gets in trouble because of the more radical “stans” who are a problem starting minority for the rest. Dream separates himself from those people as best as he can, but he knows himself that he can’t escape that brush he’s been tarred with. Kacey also knows this.

By bringing Dream into the narrative, she’s successfully shifted the focus of the conversation in a way that favours her. That stream conversation should’ve been about Kacey and the things that she has said, instead it was a grilling session from four strangers for Dream. Now people are very focused on that aspect of the whole thing (myself included ofc but this post is specifically about qbaiting accusations so) rather than the important part which is holding her accountable for her use of slurs.

It’s not her first attempt at this as she made a twitter post about how she was no.1 trending despite a mass shooting taking place. Of course this is terrible that that would be higher up but it was an obvious blame passing as this reply points out.

She knows what she’s doing and has shown no sign of stopping. It’s best that she’s not given any more attention now but just try not to watch anymore content with her in it. As I said before, don’t bother with any hate, just block and move on. For a creator complaining about all the “kids” coming for her, she doesn’t act all that much older despite being fully grown at 30 years of age.

CONCLUSION

At 6hr 42min 30sec Kacey mentions that she is number 2 on trending to which her friend replies “Good job Kacey”, she laughs. It’s clear that she does this for attention, her friends are there for clout and they are all irrelevant clowns looking to get a career boost out of creators more successful than them. They don’t stop to consider others’ feelings or empathize towards anyone. Kacey will say herself that she got her start from baiting on 4chan, this is her brand. It’s just unfortunate that she seems to think that she’s doing something just when, in actuality, she is causing a lot of damage to the LGBT community and invalidating many people with her unapologetic use of ableist and racist slurs. Her friends congratulate her because it's obvious it’s the attention she wants, this is why she streams for so long and tweets so much. She hit a far higher viewership on this stream than she normally would. I’m sure this sort of hatred does affect her negatively, whether she notices or not, I hope she gets the help she needs to become a less selfish person and to become more productive with her time.

Remember again to not send hate, just block and move on. I also recommend that you don’t watch this stream but if you are going to then watch a reupload on YT so she doesn’t get money out of it.

I was very uncomfortable after watching the stream, especially with all the false allyship with the LGBT community. People like Kacey act like this to get views whenever they’re losing their following. Just don’t fall for any bait and petty jibes that they throw this way. Don’t let any anger get the better of you and just lets move past it as it can’t be healthy for people like Dream to have to see this on his TL as well, which he will if we keep interacting. Though I do think that for now, it’s pretty much over.

For all the talk of how hateful this community is, I couldn’t disagree more. I’ve found most people very pleasant and the CCs themselves very accepting of all types of people. I’ll leave off with these tweets Dream made at the end of last year. Stay safe folks, be positive and kind to each other! Much love <3

#dreamwastaken #kaceytron #georgenotfound

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thoughts-on-bangtan · 4 years ago

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Just read your post and agree with everything, esp about bad ship theories. One thing you said, kinda stuck out. The voting argument where Jimin went without JK, so therefore they seem to live in different areas. Then does this mean you think Vmin live in different areas? I mean, if they have been together for years, why would they not be living together? IDK, I just always kinda felt Vmin low key live together this whole time, but now your answer has me doubting that. You don't think Vmin do?

Admin 2: Hello anon,

In my reply I will try to convey to you my personal point of view in regard to Vmin and their relationship and in this case, how I see the question of them of living together.

The fact that four BTS members voted at the polling stations of their district shows that not all of them are registered in Hannam in their shared dorm.

We know, and it is no secret, that Taehyung bought an apartment in autumn 2019 in which, as you can see, he also seems to be registered. We know that Hobi and Jungkook bought their apartments at the end of 2018 in the same building and supposedly even on the same floor. Taehyung has posted photos from what looks like his apartment more than once and it is no secret that he owns and stays in this apartment. During some program on TV, one of his Wooga squad friends talked to Taehyung on FaceTime, who seemed to be at home in his apartment and wondered what he should eat.

Of course, there is more information from illegal sources, but we will not touch any of that.

It is known about Jimin and his living situation that his apartments (building) are under renovation.

Ok that's official facts of things we know. However, we do not know what the actual living situation of the individual members looks like.

Actually, all options are theoretically possible, but based on some logical considerations, some arrangements can be deduced. The fact that Taehyung is not registered in the dorm does not mean that he does not live there, or at least that he does not stay for a long time.

Jimin likely being officially registered as living at the dorm does not deny that he could also spend some time at Taehyung’s apartment. Do you understand what I'm going for? However, I exclude that officially Vmin or any couple could officially be live together. We have heard more than once about the obsessiveness of fans, about the stalking of the saessangs, about them occupying whatever buildings BTS are staying at, about the way they even go after the members families to get their hands on any kind of information’s.

Therefore, the best solution for Vmin is that they have access to Taehyung’s apartment. I think that in the dorm, and anywhere else (except for their bedrooms within the dorm), it would be impossible to lead any kind of relationship in peace.

There are all sorts of people at the dorm, their staff (like their managers) have success to the dorm and could just walk in at any time. The mere fact that Vmin (we assume they are a romantic couple) is in a fragile relationship and therefore any kind of leak, so to speak, would lead to a catastrophe. Antis and alike are just waiting for such "interesting" details from the private lives of the BTS members.

I believe that it is not possible to have any romantic relationship in a classic way within the group, and it is completely impossible for two members suspected of a romance to live together. (The same applies to J/k/ok etc.)

However, I am personally convinced that Vmin spends a lot of time together, even if only because they study together for their now master’s degree. I suspect they stay a lot together because Jimin wears Taehyung's clothes (especially his oversized boots) because even after work he was supposed to go to Tae (or Tae to Jimin) during the Billboard H100 # 1 night. We have screenshots of conversations with fans during games where Tae said he had to stop because Jimin had just made ramen, some other time he’d mentioned he was planning on doing something with Jimin the next day etc. Jimin said during Vlive in April 2020 that him and Tae like to go driving at night and many other things.

"Someday, when these cheers die down, stay hey

Stay with me by my side"

And that is also my opinion: A normal relationship will only be possible for Vmin when they are no longer the most famous musicians in the world living in a very conservative Korea, especially since they (and other members as well) still have to go to their military service in the VERY conservative Korean Army. Actual suspicions of a queer relationship within the group could and likely would only endanger the members during their service, just like I previously mentioned in my reply to an ask about Jin’s reaction to Taehyung’s “Jiminah I like you the most”.

I would also like to add some observations and thoughts to members speaking about their situation in life.

I have a strong impression that it doesn't matter so much to the fans whether Namjoon or Yoongi or even Jin live at the dorm or anywhere else.

What obsessive fans care about is where and with whom the maknaes live.

Therefore, I often get the impression that some dialogues, some scenes in RUN or interviews or other shows are shown in such a way that there is some confusion about who with who and confusion about where the maknaes live and whether they live together or not. I may be delulu, but I often get such an impression, especially when it comes to Jimin, that he deliberately says certain things in a way that can be interpreted in multiples ways, or like they mean something, even though likely it doesn’t mean anything at all.

We know Jimin is very private and doesn’t readily share private information’s, so it just seems like he “feeds” obsessive shippers, of whom I’m sure he’s well aware they are listening and just waiting for it, something that really is empty just so they have something to do, like JK saying he wants to make pizza at the end of some RUN episode to which Jimin asked “at home?” which was asked (or at least translated by weverse/vlive) in such a manner that shippers spent the next two weeks discussing what home he meant and if that means they do live together. Because of that, really, Jungkook can keep his privacy, as can vmin, since shippers will hold on to those empty phrases (fanservice) while the members can do whatever they want away from the cameras. Does that make sense? So, in the end, even if it seems like Jimin shared some insight into their living arrangements, we really still know nothing at all about where the maknaes live and with whom. It’s very smart PR and fits with the media training Idols in general seem to receive.

Edit: I read your comments and I want to clarify what I meant with the above part about Jimin, since I really didn’t mean to shift the blame for bad shipper behavior on him in any kind of way:

I’m sure we’ve all seen bad shippers make the argument that the members that are part of their ship supposedly purposefully say certain things to send them “secret/hidden messages” or “hints” that “only they will understand” which in turn are meant to prove their ships. That’s what I meant by “seems to “feed””, not that he’s purposefully “lying” in their favor or feeding into their weird fantasies, but rather that the vague things he sometimes says, or his occasionally cheeky/teasing comments made in good fun with the other members, are taken by shippers and interpreted in ways to fit their narratives, even if what Jimin says has nothing to do with ships at all, he’s obviously just joking/teasing, or it’s just a vague “empty”/deflective statement to keep private info private.

In all those cases the blame is on shippers and their bad behavioral habits of twisting the members words instead of listening properly and realizing that Jimin is joking or that what he said isn’t a hint or anything at all.

After all, Jimin said so much, supposedly, and yet we know nothing, not even about him and Taehyung studying together, which was quite literally never mentioned by them. Not even once in passing.

Of course, everything I've written is just my personal opinion and point of view. I could of course be totally wrong.

From anon: I agree that "Feeding the Schipers" isn't the happiest phrase, but I get what is going on. I think what J/m says and how he says it is like fodder for ships. I don't think he's doing it on purpose, however. Definitely not. J/m has this style of teasing, joking and shippers buying it as "secret confessions or notices" but a cool comment in general.

Admin 1: I’d like to quote myself from my asks post yesterday as reply to this ask, since it fits here as well:

Besides, at the end of the day, their living arrangements are not something we are privy to and that we shouldn’t try to figure out either. The members say they still live at the dorm, and if that’s the version they want us to believe, that’s the one I’ll stick to, unless they tell me otherwise.

#BTS #vmin #Jimin #Taehyung #answered ask

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brawltogethernow · 4 years ago

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a while back you said that you don’t think mj is cis, and that you have specific scenes informing that idea abt her.... do u mind if I ask what are the scenes? and what’s the gender diagnosis? 👀

I don’t have a concrete conclusion, just a vague impression and a habit of getting out my phone at five a.m. and texting my brother stuff like, “I feel like MJ would try out the label he/him lesbian but like, primarily on a personal Twitter account profile.” But yeah, she has two recurring traits that inform the bulk of this for me.

The first is her habit of inserting herself into traditionally masculine roles. I figure the writers were probably gunning for an exaggerated/comedic level of feminism. (It didn’t all age perfectly, but the other women of the cast were already written as feminist.) If you think speaking up for equal rights is cool, wait until you see...MJ try to singlehandedly destroy the gender binary? In practice you get this theme where MJ observes dubious male-coded behavior and then instead of going, “Stop doing that,” goes, “I am also going to do that.”

We see her take the reins of a date more than once on panel to literally go, “Wait, let’s do some very traditionally gendered date shit. And I am going to be the man.”

Physically taking Peter’s key to open his own door for him in ASM 136.

Playing out the ancient ritual of carrying his books for him in ASM 141. Both times she lampshades this as chauvinism and dramatizes the problematic subtext of how these are supposed to go down. In 1974 when these were published I’m pretty sure book carrying as a courting ritual was already considered a dated, cheesy trope living on only through media.

I wish guys pathologically trying to get the door had gone the same way, buuuut. Sigh. But personally, when dudes slow down our travel progress by stopping me and then making a big production of opening a door for me, I follow their lead by slowing us down even further and refusing to go through the door until after they’ve gone through, and when I’m with dudes who are not trying to do a gender at me I full stop don’t think about these behavioral habits unless a recent encounter has left me twitchy. But I don’t get a hit of gender euphoria from doing man shit, and MJ...might?

What other interpretation of this is there, really? Preemptively punishing Peter to get in ahead of it just in case he comes over weird and traditional on her, three in-universe years into their friendship? Nah, she’s literally just having fun with genderplay.

Also... Peter going along with it but very visibly not Getting it with a single bone in his body... RIP. Or not, because this read intensifies the ways MJ acts as a foil for Peter and Gwen by contrasting their traits.

Gwen’s way of addressing gender stereotypes, to have a point of contrast, were more along the lines of calling Peter a chauvinist when he tried to make decisions for her, and jabbingly cheerful reminders that she was a cute blonde girl and a science major.

The second trait is weaker evidence but still, like...noticeable? And less dismissable as a kink thing. That being MJ’s recurring tendency to parse emotionally complex situations happening to other people by zooming in on one of them and going, That one is the me of this situation and analyzing through that lens. Her pick is always a dude. If there are four women and one man, she’ll pick the man.

^literally recollecting her own sister’s divorce by her deadbeat husband, who if anything she should be comparing to their deadbeat father

SSM 96, ASM 259, ASM: Parallel Lives

This could just be the writers themselves overempathizing with men and discounting women! It’s definitely not deliberate. But also, there are lots of other women in this franchise, who don’t do this as far as I can think of. There are lots of women in these parts of MJ’s story who she is deliberately compared against, like, the Bechdel test is being passed.

And yet, most times I can recall where MJ compares herself to women are explicitly aversive, like how she’s terrified of ending up living a life like her mother’s.

Parallel Lives, incidentally, is wild, because it is simultaneously going “here’s how a man and woman met and got married👫” and dishing a condensed Mary Jane backstory that has every single “the one queer relative” marker. Young Mary Jane, inexplicably different from her family members in an ostracizing but decidedly stylish way, finds her mother and sister’s insistence she follow a normal path through life re: romance and relationships “suffocating” and generally existentially abhorrent. The only one willing to humor MJ is her unmarried aunt, though Anna's support is in the form of optimism about MJ’s potential within the expected romantic paradigm. Simultaneously MJ’s sister, whose trauma as a child of a bad marriage is identical to MJ’s, does hit all the life path checkmarks people expect to see from MJ. Okay. MJ’s main emotional conflict is literally: “A man: Is that my father, or is that me? (These are the only choices.)” ...Okay.

Bonus points granted for self-identifying by the gender-neutral nickname “MJ” over other nickname options that were available if she just wanted to ditch her uncool two-part first name. (Dubious for obvious reasons but we know her father calls her “Janey”, for example.)

Off in some other area of the great gender blob, MJ performs femininity with deliberate, studied exaggeration, and has clearly sampled what she likes from the chocolate box of womanhood and thrown out the rest. Citations: Literally every scene she is in from her introduction up until at least the 90′s Clone Saga.

What does any of this mean!? I dunno. Smells genderqueer tho.

#mary jane watson #spiderman #spiderman meta #spidey #marvel #someone finally gave me an excuse to compile this #anonymous #asks answered #essays

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vietzuko · 4 years ago

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if we used to share a discord server, this post is for you!

hello! i am going to try to do this as anonymously and non-confrontationally as possible. i do not want this to be a spectacle or call out post, but i will say that i am quite disturbed by the way situations have transpired on the server.

in case you didn’t notice, i left! when i left, i wrote a little goodbye post in #general, which has since been deleted. either the mods deleted my goodbye or they banned me from the server (which automatically would delete my message). in case you didn’t see it, here was my goodbye message:

hi everyone, i’m leaving the server. if you’re a POC who is interested in joining an ATLA server where POC can talk about ATLA and critically discuss race, feel free to PM me for a link! otherwise, this is goodbye. see you all around.

i won’t rehash everything that happened in the events leading to this, nor will i name names in this post. if you were on the server, you probably saw what happened publicly or you can message me personally, either here or on discord. if we know each other through the server and you want some clarity over names/events in this post, please PM me.

if you are a POC in the ATLA fandom who is concerned by the events of this post and you would like me to clarify which server i’m talking about, please PM me.

i just wanted to share the very long message that i sent to the mods (on their prompting!) because i feel that it shows my perspective on what transpired. unfortunately, this message did not result in any meaningful change, except for me getting banned/my messages removed from the server. i suppose that’s a type of meaning! haha.

anyway. here’s the message. cw for racism, yellowface

hi MOD 1 (and presumably the other mods who will read this message)! thanks for reaching out. i’ve had some time to dwell on the situation and discuss it with other people in the server who witnessed it and reached out to me personally. this is going to be an unbelievably long message, so i apologize in advance and thank you for your time in reading it.

i think the first thing i’d like to do is give some context for the incident and to give my perspective on why i said the things i said.

i have PMed a mod about a racist incident in the server exactly once. it was when i first joined, and i saw a picture of a white person in yellowface in the cosplay channel. i didn’t know any of you personally yet (and this was before some of you even joined on as mods). i have since told SERVER MEMBER 1 about this incident and i’m pretty sure they mentioned it to you because i noticed you’ve changed the yellowface rule. but i think that the context of me pinging a mod about a racist incident and then witnessing another (although less egregious) instance of racism by the mods might explain why i am, in general, hesitant about talking to mods about racism on the server. i am just trying to live my life and experience as few micro-aggressions as possible.

i also think the fact that i regularly educate and push back against white people’s racially harmful messages in the server is also important context. i realize none of you likely know this, but about every two weeks i receive an unsolicited PM from a different white person apologizing/asking for forgiveness/asking for reassurance/asking further questions about their racism on the server. i’m glad people are learning from me, but this is a huge amount of emotional labor that i put into the server and its members because of course i have to reply and explain things and tell them not to worry and thank them for apologizing, etc. i know that these messages aren’t your fault, nor am i asking you to do anything about this. but it feels important that you know the price that i (and perhaps other poc in the server, although i can’t speak to that) pay in order to share space with you.

MOD 2 has even messaged me personally to thank me for educating people in the server and responding to racist messages, saying: “really appreciate how much effort you put in and everything, i was trying to type something up but floundering badly.” it was a nice message, and i appreciated it a lot! it also led me to believe that the mods would prefer if i engage with racist messages myself, rather than ping them, because it felt like i was just going to be more able/willing to articulate a response anyway.

so when SERVER MEMBER 2 messaged the zukka channel “thought that lives in my head rent free: Sokka's hairstyle in canon is just a warrior's hairstyle and has meaning because of that. Sokka wearing the same hairstyle in a modern AU is undisputably queer-coded” and nobody replied for a while, i assumed that it was because they had seen what i had seen-- a racially insensitive message that totally ignores sokka’s indigenous heritage and the history behind indigenous hair-- so i decided to step in with what i thought was a balanced response.

SERVER MEMBER 2 then replied with a cheery “Fair enough! I will defer to your greater knowledge,” which i couldn’t tell was sarcastic or not, but i decided to be generous and to believe they were genuinely thankful for my reply, so i responded with a “you too can have great knowledge. i only know things because i read things. anyone can read things and learn,” which is something i firmly believe and also a way to divert the conversation away from SERVER MEMBER 2’s mistake, which i felt was the most dignified solution for them. i suppose this message could be read as aggressive because i didn’t use exclamation marks? but that feels unfair and ungenerous because i genuinely did not mean this message in a harsh way.

then SERVER MEMBER 3 jumped in and asked a few questions, which i read as a request for clarification, so i tried to continue to explain my point. it felt like SERVER MEMBER 3 wasn’t understanding what i was trying to explain, or at least i wasn’t able to articulate myself well enough, which was making me a little tired and stressy (and i was also thinking about my own race and queerness in stressful and triggering ways), so i decided to tap out of the conversation.

me: dude i love u and i respect u and i truly believe that u are trying very hard to understand, but this conversation is making me kinda heated

SERVER MEMBER 3: I’m gonna step back from it because it’s not my conversation to insert myself into, which is what I did initially and apologize for

me: i think it's so important to engage + ask questions & i appreciate that u respect my opinions on these things, but i think i'm just. i have said what i need to say and now must sleep. much love to all.

to me, this felt like me expressing that i was feeling tired and upset and leaving the conversation, while still attempting to reassure SERVER MEMBER 3 that i still admired him as a friend. i felt like the conversation had ended peacefully!

i hope this helps explain why MOD 3’s message came as such a surprise.

“the escalation to defensiveness and accusation regarding the original (relatively benign) statement was unnecessary and exaggerated. There’s an atmosphere of purity policing that’s been growing, which is why I took away the squick channel, as I assumed that a space that encouraged no repercussions was facilitating irresponsibility aggressive arguments. “

i truly didn’t believe i was being defensive. i was very careful not to accuse anyone of anything. in fact, i tried as far as i could to coat my language in “i” statements-- “i would personally not choose…”, “i would just. stay away from…” in order to avoid “accusations.” i was also trying very hard not to be aggressive, and i (and other poc that i have spoken to about this) believe that the idea that my messages were aggressive is racialized. just because a poc is upset about racism, it doesn’t mean they’re attacking you personally!

i feel so hurt that my messages were wilfully interpreted in this way, instead of being read generously and from a more compassionate perspective, especially since i voiced my own upset and discomfort during the conversation. it distresses me to think that me expressing negative emotions is seen as aggressive, rather than a cause for empathy or care, and i do believe that this is because of my race.

if a mod had asked me to take the messages to the DMs or to squick or even just let me know that someone was interpreting my messages as aggressive, i would have changed my behavior. (like i said earlier, i spend a HUGE amount of energy coddling white people on this server. i am very used to it.)

instead, i got the shock of 45 minutes after the fact, being publicly chastised and labeled as aggressive and being told that my conversation was “something nasty or unwanted.”

the idea that SERVER MEMBER 3 was de-escalating a “clearly escalating situation” feels untrue to me. i was ready to move on after i sent my message to SERVER MEMBER 2, but he kept engaging me on the subject! (no hate to SERVER MEMBER 3 on this.)

i think one of the most painful parts of this whole situation is the implication that i was attempting to “purity police,” as though i am a person who picks fights just because i want to feel good about picking fights?? or to act holier-than-thou???? i do not do this. if you have witnessed ANY interaction i’ve had with a racially insensitive white person on the server, you will know this.

i am simply a person of color trying to live my life. i do not want to fight about racism. i want to chill out and watch my cartoons. unfortunately, sometimes, someone will say something that i consider racially insensitive and i will do my best to engage and explain why i find this insensitive. that is all. (it is important to note that most of the time, when i see racially insensitive things on the server, i do not say anything because i am tired and it is a lot of effort to engage. i truly only engaged this time because nobody had replied to the message and i was just like, oh, fine, i guess i’ll educate, since no one else has!)

this whole incident has honestly made me really hurt and disrespected. i have enjoyed my time on the server and i have made some good friends there. however, it feels clearer and clearer to me that the server is a space where white feelings of safety (not being criticized for their racist content) are prioritized over poc’s feelings of safety (not having to witness and experience racist content). i sincerely considered myself to be an active and enthusiastic member of the server, maybe even friends with some of you, but it feels to me that all of our previous positive interactions have been displaced by this idea of me as an aggressive, overzealous purity cop who calls things racist for fun.

i don’t even know how to repair my relationship with the server after this because i really do feel horrible and sick about the whole thing. i have spoken to other poc who also expressed their concerns about the way the mods handled the situation, even if these other poc weren’t directly involved, and some of us are considering leaving the server, if we haven’t already. (i would also like to note that these people reached out to me, unprompted, to make sure i was doing okay after what they and i interpreted as a micro-aggression by the mods. like, we independently read the situation in this way.)

(also, not sure if this matters, but i talked to SERVER MEMBER 3 the morning after the incident because i wanted to make sure he was okay, and we both ended up apologizing to each other and having a really good and productive talk.)

thanks again for reading this. i hope that you’ll be able to better understand my perspective on what occurred. i truly appreciate the work that you put into the server (especially as someone who also puts work into the server lol), and i know it’s difficult to mod a large server (i also mod an atla server!), but i continue to feel hurt about this. i know it’s hard to read tone over server messages, but i really wish that my (and SERVER MEMBER 4′s and SERVER MEMBER 5′s ) server messages had been read with greater compassion.

...

and that’s all folks! i’m going to be remaking my blog soon, partially because this whole experience has exhausted me and partially because i have been meaning to anonymize my internet presence for some time.

#felix.txt

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crispyapplepies · 4 years ago

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AkuRoku Defense pt 2

Axel and Roxas’s ship has had one of the most bizarre fandom journey’s i have ever come to witness. It has gone from being one of the most popular ships maybe ever, to being dead cancelled over a supposed age gap and I find that completely unfair, especially when it speaks to so many innocent people who emotionally depend on the ship, (yes innocent includes the spicy people because art literally is not a crime). So its time to defend it.

Brief Review on Nobodies vs Aging

First of all, l already explained in part 1 what the Nobodies Don’t Age thing means but I’ll go over it again briefly, since it can be confusing, though also many people seem to demand their hands be held rather than use their imaginations to understand. Even so, here’s the short version just for a review:

-A person in KH is made of a heart, body, and soul.

-The body reflects the heart in KH. (See: replica bodies taking on the appearance of the heart that’s inside them).

-A nobody lacks a heart, making them just a body and soul. They’re advanced zombies of sorts.

Nobodies do not age because they have no heart for the body to reflect. This is why they won’t change until they form one. Change includes age

-Ergo, you can imagine any age you like for Axel to be nobodied, cuz he was frozen at that age and did not change for 10 years. Not until he met Roxas.

We’ll come back to this again later.

Axel Loves Roxas Canonically

Second of all, Axel loves Roxas and you are allowed to interpret that as platonic, familial, or romantic, I don’t care as long as you’re not forcing that idea on others like the ship police. That said, people are allowed to explore how romantic this love potentially is.

And what you might like to know is that the canon is even open to this. Axel’s love for Roxas is canonically expressed, and if you would like, you can even interpret that love as romantic. See below:

We are going to look at the japanese translation because AS ALWAYS good old SENA is here for the straights and erases the gay, like clockwork.

In English, Axel says this:

Axel: I wanted to see Roxas. He...was the only one I liked... He made me feel...like I had a heart. It's kind of...funny... You make me feel...the same...

Axel’s line here in Japanese:

Axel: I wanted to see Roxas... I loved him. Being with him... it made me feel like I had a heart. I feel it from you, too... the same kind of....

You may notice that as romantic as the line “he made me feel like I had a heart” sounds, the original can be read as wAY gooier, specifically cuz of this word:

好き: "suki"

Now here’s the thing. Japanese is a pretty vague language which is why context is so important for these things, as well as what you say, and what you don’t say.

“Suki” is a very key word here because it is often used in romantic confession scenes.

(I have no idea what this panel is from, I apologize lol)

It CAN mean something casual, like “I love video games”, but considering Axel is saying this with his dying breath, I don’t think we should be treating it as some hyperbole. He is referring to a person and it is meaningful. However. It is still a word with plausible deniability. Japanese has several words for love, “ai” for example being one of the most inarguable means of referring to romantic love. So choosing “suki” still leaves room for the homophobes to disregard it as something not romantic. Which makes it objectively inconclusive. Here is the thing though… they specifically chose that word, suki, a word which IS so often used in a romantic context in many anime and manga.

They also chose to use that word rather than something objectively platonic. Which means you also cannot conclude Axel did NOT mean it romantically. Given his devotion to Roxas, and the fact that they chose this word of all words for him to say… I’m personally going to assume it’s romantic. You are free not to interpret it that way. But I am because I am considering the fact that they did not choose something strictly platonic.

(My translator friend actually freaked out when I showed her this, she’s translated and seen enough confession scenes to know what connotations that particular word comes with lol).

If you’ve read my queer coding doc, you may recall I also go over how this is one of the most important tricks with queer coding. You write something that CAN be viewed as queer but with plausible deniability for straight people to ignore it. It’s a means of protecting oneself and the text from homophobic oppression. It is a legitimate practice. So even though it can be denied as a queer text, it can also very very well be viewed as a definite queer text. We are choosing to queer it here. It is not as explicit as it could be, but it is still very bold, suggestive coding considering the homophobic world we live in, and especially with KH2 being released in 2004.

“But Age Gap!” (ughhhhh)

We’re back to this cuz I also finally have the Japanese version of that infamous page in the Day’s novel to look at.

I hope you’ll forgive me if I get a little bit salty but I don’t like to repeat myself lol so I’m gonna try to keep this section short and to the point.

In this interview with Nomura, he expresses that nobodies do not age, and they exist as they were at the time of becoming a nobody. He then suggests Xemnas seems 30 ish.

Now I truly do not care to hold your hand through the process of thinking creatively because you should be using your own imagination, if you have one, to think critically and creatively about what this idea means.

Kingdom Hearts is a FANTASY game. Nobodies are a FANTASY concept. They can break ALL the rules about real life that you want them to. But I will go ahead and explain this for you even though I’ve already done it many times, in this very document even and in other meta posts.

The body reflects the heart. Nobodies are frozen as they are from the moment they are “born”, which is to say the moment they are created. Glorified zombies. They aren’t going to age unless they form a heart. Why does Xemnas look 30? He has a heart! Or he was formed 10 years after TerraNort defected. You tell me. Why did Ienzo age? I dunno, you tell me! Either he formed a heart and didn’t know it, (he’s passionate about his work, he loves Ansem the Wise, any number of things could’ve made him form a new heart), or he was nobodied later in life. Axel is frozen at whatever age he was when he was nobodied, all the while Ienzo could’ve been nobodied 10 years later. It’s a fantasy, and these are fantasy rules. That scenario can happen. YOU decide. Until the canon tells us for sure, your imaginations can run wild with explanations. Even if the canon does tell us, you can still imagine whatever you want for your own headcanons. Freedom is amazing, it’s salty and sweet.

Now let’s talk about that annoying page in the Days novel people keep shoving in my face.

This one right here. The official english translation is this:

That’s not the worst translation I’ve seen them put out there. But let’s look closer at the Japanese:

Here, Axel says he thinks Roxas is about 10 years separate from himself, but things like age don't exist for nobodies.

Already that’s making a lot more sense to me for nobodies since we are told nobodies do not age. As such Axel speaking like he is 10 years older would feels almost contradictory when he has no heart and cannot change.

This wording is important. Recall me saying that Japanese is very vague so all of the context matters. No one is denying that 10 years passed between Birth By Sleep and Axel meeting Roxas. However. Nobodies don’t age.

(please dont make me explain that a third time in this essay alone)

The Japanese and English both express that age does not apply to nobodies, (as discussed above^^^^) and the Japanese furthers this with its wording. They have 10 years of separation between Axel being nobodied, and Roxas existing.

Axel saying in English that Roxas is simply 10 years younger than himself is rather misleading considering the ambiguity of the original. I can’t fault the translators too much for not understanding this nobody concept so well because it is obviously confusing. However, I do not think Axel was saying Roxas is literally, in real life human somebody terms, 10 literal physical years younger than him. He is expressing that he became a nobody 10 years ago whereas this guy became a nobody very recently, and it shows with how little he can even function right now. A zombie who has been wandering around with no heart for 10 years meets a fresh zombie wandering around with no heart for 1 day.

I know antis are gonna use it against us no matter what, but at least know that akuroku is not inherently pedophilia nor is it inherently an adult/minor ship.

In many of our headcanons, Axel was frozen at age 18 or 19, with Roxas being 16. Absolutely no one is required to view them with a big age gap because imagination is free and you literally have no right to police it, but also because the canon expresses these nobodies as beings outside of the realm of age. They do not operate under real life rules or somebody rules. Think of Steven Universe where Rose was thousands of years old but only “grew up” as a person when she fell in love with Greg, a human in his 20s-30s who asked her to consider other people’s feelings. Consider the mind of a nobody as a state of Neverland. You aren’t gonna age unless you step out of it and change. Mature. Isn’t it sad that Axel did not feel like he had a heart until Roxas? No wonder people ship it!

Coding is Obvious

Finally I wanna conclude on a simple thought. This interview right here? I’d be curious what the original Japanese actually says lol but the english translation of it says that romantic akuroku was not Nomura’s intent.

Here’s the thing though. If you know anything about queer coding, you know that using romantic coding between 2 male characters is signaling something. It is not something you should ignore. It would not be there if the characters were meant to be viewed as objectively straight. And for something “unintentional”... there sure is a lot of coding at work here.

From Axel pinning Roxas down and asking him to come home in a very sexually suggestive pose,

to watching the sunset in sheer bliss together just enjoying the peace of reunion,

to watching the sunset together while talking about what LOVE is, specifICALLY romantic love,

To this. And I already told you what this was in Japanese.

I’m not saying Nomura lied…

But I am saying that a whole staff worked together to create these games, and it is very difficult for me to believe that no one thought to say “these characters appear to be romantic, let us change the scene to be more platonic” if the characters were not meant to be romantically suggestive.

Tl;Dr I wanna live in the timeline where people let you ship akuroku lol

#akuroku #akrk #axel kh #roxas kh #kingdom hearts

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therewrites · 4 years ago

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We Are Who We Are Overall Thoughts *spoilers*

This review will be discussing briefly some of the episodes so far, so SPOILERS

So I started watching the HBO original series, We Are Who We Are, and I am conflicted. When I initially watched it, the dialogue made it hard for me to enjoy it so I stopped. Then after a couple of weeks after its airing, I thought, what the hell? And this time, I was pleasantly surprised. I always maintain the belief that pilot episodes are either boring, messy, or just bad so I try to push past it in order to get to the good shit. The pilot for We Are Who We Are was...I’m not sure how to explain...different? It certainly wasn’t bad and it made an impression on me, but this show as a whole is hard to limit by just a few words. It’s really something that you should watch and experience yourself.

It was only after the first 3 episodes that I began to understand the tone and mood that Luca Guadagnino was trying to convey. A lot of the time, the dialogue is abrupt and choppy and can make no sense. It can be frustrating, especially when you have two characters that aren’t communicating effectively. But I think that was the point. Guadagnino is a very realistic director, he captures the most realistic elements in a film. A lot of the conversations between characters is meant to emulate real life. Like, what the hell do you say when a conversation becomes awkward? Well, nothing sometimes.

While Guadagnino’s typical cinematography may suggest whimsy, in WAWWA’s case the small structured and synthetic model of the military base is juxtaposed to the very concrete characters. When I started to view the show less as simply a televised airing of fictional characters and problems, and instead looked at them as people, I began to really enjoy it.

Take the main character of Fraser, played by Jack Dylan Grazer. Fraser is meant to be seen as an extremely complex and troubled kid, but the difference between him and every other teen in a coming-of-age drama is that he isn’t polished. His drinking and drug habit isn’t framed as romantic or beautiful, in fact most of the time it’s portrayed as his weakness of sorts. In the first episode, Fraser has one of his mothers drive him home after getting pretty wasted and Luca graces us with a direct shot of him throwing up. And before that, Fraser is stumbling on a bridge when he drunkenly falls and cuts his face. Everything the character does is messy, uncoordinated, yet extremely real and relatable. Hell, in one shot you can clearly see him do a Naruto run!

Caitlin/Harper is a character that I enjoyed watching, as well. Jordan Seamon did a fantastic job and I really connected with their character. Initially we see Caitlin as this mysterious girl, and in the pilot we are meant to assume that their relationship with Fraser is supposed to develop into a romantic one. This is not the case as it seems that Caitlin is trying to come to terms with who they are. The biggest shift in Caitlin’s character isn’t their friendship with Fraser but probably when they get their period.

This was a moment that even I related to, even though I am cis when I first got my period I didn’t tell my mom until the day after. The possible confusion and shift in their reality that Caitlin felt was only heightened with the conflict of their boyfriend wanting to be more physically intimate, and Fraser’s eventual discover of Harper. I would have like to see exactly why Fraser seemed drawn to Caitlin. I’m assuming viewers were supposed to think that Fraser is attracted to her, or something. But both Caitlin/Harper and Fraser are queer coded and their respective sexualities are alluded to not being straight. It would’ve made their standing as platonic friends more clear if this had been established stronger.

I definitely think the writer could have devoted more time to giving certain characters proper conversations. It would’ve given more development to certain characters and better context for things. However even without that, there is a lot that the audience is showed that can’t be told through dialogue. The power struggle between Sarah and Richard being one. So far, there hasn’t been any explanation as to why they have a such a volatile relationship other than Richard being a homophobe.

Through deeper inspection, I was able to interpret it as: Richard may heavily resent the fact the Sarah was promoted to Colonel and not him. It is never made clear who has the better credentials, Sarah or Richard, but assuming that she was the one promoted it is a safe guess. This may be highlighted by the fact that Sarah is a women, and also gay. Even before episode 7, it was clear that Richard did not respect her authority. I also interpreted it as Richard being upset that and openly gay women was promoted instead of him, a black man.

Of course this is just based on my own personal knowledge of how the U.S. military can be towards people of color and LGBTQ+. Regardless, the competitive tension between two parents is palpable without needing dialogue to explain.

When conflict happens, I can kind of figure out which characters are going to react and which one’s will stay silent. I think the show is trying to accomplish a drastically realistic and raw series. It took me while to adjust to it, but by maybe the 2nd or 3rd episode, it starts to grow on you. Despite not liking a good majority of the characters, I was very surprised by how invested I was in them.

Like, Danny is my least favorite character because he displays very abusive and explosive tendencies, and doesn’t seem to care about the world around him. However, getting glimpses into his character and seeing how Richard ignores him for Caitlin/Harper, his suicidal thoughts, and how he is trying to reclaim his cultural and religious background makes me empathize with him.

Even though I hate his character, I can see that he is struggling. I appreciate the way that this show freely shows dark skinned black boys dealing with mental health issues, and personal development. Rarely are issues like suicide talked about in the black community, so seeing Danny talk about it and Craig offering(admittedly poor)comfort was touching. This is a general vibe that I get from nearly all the characters on WAWWA. I also appreciated the how Danny is actively trying to convert to Islam. In shows, rarely is Islam ever portrayed in a positive manner. Especially when female characters are shown to be struggling with their religion, Islam is shown as this barrier that prevents them from living life. Hopefully it goes without saying that the “taking off the hijab” as a way to show that a female character is “liberated” is overplayed and does not offer any respect to the countless Muslim women who choose to wear hijabs.

Now I think the pacing of some of the storylines could have been handled a bit more gracefully. Like how we jump from Fraser and Harper being kind of enemies(not really but you know what I mean), to just them hanging out in Richard’s boat was jarring. I would have at least liked to see the scene of them talking on the rocks at the beach. It would’ve given more insight on Caitlin/Harper’s character and also on Fraser too. Also how quickly Maggie and Lu(Jennifer but I love the name Lubaba, it’s my aunt’s name)jump into a physical affair. I just would have liked to see a build up of tension between all these characters but I don’t think this entirely ruins the plot.

I was very iffy when I learned that the show would be focusing on trans identity and gender and sexuality, but not actually hire a trans male actor. I was afraid that the show would completely botch the experiences of being transgender, and honestly I don’t have the authority to speak on whether or not this affects the quality of the show. I am cisgender, and only can empathize with this particular situation as much as I can. But I would like to hear to the opinion of someone who is trans and elaborate on the ways that they did/didn’t like Jordan Kristine Seamón’s portrayal.

Now at the time I’m writing this, the season finale has yet to come out. But I’d also like to briefly discuss the most recent episode and how it developed Jonathan and Fraser’s relationship. I was VERY worried that Guadagnino was going to take their relationship in the direction of inappropriate. While nearly all the depictions of Jonathan and his actions have been trough Fraser’s pov, it didn’t stop me from side-eyeing some of the interactions they shared. Of course after it was mentioned that Jonathan was supposed to be in his late 20s, nearing 30 I was immediately uncomfortable with the very flirty behavior he exhibited.

So when the scene of Fraser going up to his apartment after Craig’s death, I was very on edge. If Guadagnino had gone the extra mile to show an even larger age gap then I would’ve been pissed. While I enjoyed Call Me By Your Name, the implication that sexual relationships between barely legal teenagers and adults well into their 20s was sensual is something that I see as very weird now that I’m older. So seeing Jonathan as the object of Fraser’s affections made me extremely warry.

And honestly, I’m still surprised that the scene even happened in its entirety. I’m sure that Jack was not in any danger of being exploited but there were definitely points while watching I thought, what the fuck is going on? I was very worried that it would escalate, but I was happy to see that Fraser was the one who stopped it from going further. It made sense to me that this scene took so many liberties to be as graphic as possible without being too graphic, in order to show why a situation like that would be scary and confusing for Fraser. It wasn’t lost to me that Marta and Jonathan were the one’s initiating all the sexual advances. They held all the power in that scenario, even more so because Fraser is younger and has the tendencies to not make the best decisions. Though it seemed that Fraser was trying, he knew that the situation was fucked up.

I’d like to hear what JDG felt and thought doing this scene. What was his character’s thought process?

I’ve seen a lot of people compare the show heavily to CMBYN, which is fine. Besides certain cinematic parallels that people pointed out, I don’t see the clear comparison. CMBYN is more of a love story and it’s more polished than WAWWA. Now when I say tat, I don’t mean it as a negative. Rather, We Are Who We is obviously more devoted to realism and its characters. I appreciate the inclusion of more LGBTQ+ people and black main characters with development, something that CMBYN lacked. And for some people who didn’t like the show based solely on the fact that it wasn’t a CMBYN tv show, I suggest just going into it with no expectations and enjoy the mess.

And I’d also like to take a moment to commend Jack Dylan Grazer for his job in We Are Who We Are. All of the main cast are amazing actors and actresses and did a really good job bringing their characters to life. Though, I had always associated JDG with supporting roles that, while highlighted his acting talent, only put him in a one-dimensional light. As good as It 2017 was, JDG’s role of Eddie is only meant to be seen as a comic relief. In WAWWA, I was able to forget that he was teen actor, Jack Dylan Grazer, and really see him as Fraser. It’s worth mentioning that in a GQ interview, Grazer also mentioned how this role made him reevaluate is approach to acting.

And after reading an interview he did with a Interview Germany, with him saying he spent months in Italy reading the script and trying to perfectly craft this character, I was immensely impressed. I hope that he knows that all his hard work payed off and made a really dynamic and interesting character. I really hope that in the future JDG continues with more mature or multi-dimensional roles because he displayed that he has the talent to do so. Him being so young makes me optimistic in knowing that he is definitely going places in his career. I also hope that there will be a season 2 of WAWWA because despite having hour long episodes, the show still felt way too short. There is a lot about Fraser’s character, and all the others’ characters, that I want more information and analysis on.

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bisluthq · 4 years ago

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*WARNING Domestic violence topic* Could you explain to me why seven could sound queer?, Like I can see how many Taylor songs can be interpreted in a queer way, but with seven I can't see it, like for me it's clearly about domestic violence and the only possible queer thing I can hear it's the closet part...but in this particular case I do not think it refers to sexuality but to literally hiding form your abusive parents. Sorry if this was asked before or if it's disrespectful to ask.

So firstly let me just say that victims of abuse who hear that in the song are so valid. And I’m not here to “take away” a song that speaks to that experience. If it brings you comfort and relief, that’s amazing.

Do I think Taylor meant it as a song about domestic violence or escaping from that? Honestly, no. Because she described herself in LPSS as longing for that time in her life and talked about how she misses being able to throw tantrums and feel more freely and without judgement; in her head she’s thinking about this period in her life very fondly. Now, this is one of those death of the author moments because if you’re an abuse survivor who found comfort in this you... shouldn’t care wtf Taylor meant by it, what matters is what it means to you. Same as how if betty speaks to your sapphic teenage love triangle, it shouldn’t matter that Taylor imagined James as a boy.

But yeah, so for Taylor it was not meant to be about abuse. It was about feeling stuff more freely. And let’s take a look and examine at why it feels so fucking gay to... like... basically every queer woman.

Please picture me

In the trees

I hit my peak at seven

Okay so Taylor is setting up a narrator - presumably herself. Especially in the context of her hyperconfessional marketing and the LPSS explanation we’re literally meant to picture Tay. But tbh that doesn’t matter so much - it could be any little girl. This little girl is “in the trees”... which isn’t really where little girls are supposed to be. In these very first lines Tay is setting up a little tomboy character.... and then she says “I hit my peak at seven” - ergo this rugrat period of abandon, where I was free to play in the trees, is “my peak”. It was the best time in “my” life.

Lots of people feel that, it’s not inherently gay, but for queer women - I don’t know about other shades of queer but suspect yes - childhood often represents even greater freedom than to hets because it’s before we felt deviant. There was nothing to compare ourselves to. Sure, we might’ve played families in het couples like heteronormativity is felt by children too, but that kind of thing was largely asexual and we didn’t know yet that other people felt differently about it all.

Like I only realized I was different in late middle school and I didn’t have the word for it for ages tbh. Like I just knew I didn’t get the fuss about boys. When I was a little kid? I didn’t know what the fuss was really. It was a kind of “peak” so yeah, I feel that in my bones.

Feet

In the swing

Over the creek

I was too scared to jump in, but I, I was high

In the sky

Here we have her playing, once again with reckless abandon - she’s standing on a swing (naughty!) and swinging high over a creek. But she’s slightly nervous. I relate to that too, it’s not a gay thought it’s a little kid thought I think - because while she’s enjoying her freedom and the chance to play, there’s an awareness of the risk. That’s a lot of childhood and what makes her such a greater songwriter is how she’s able to capture these feelings we’ve all had before, in this case the rumbunctious nature of free play paired with the cautious nervousness of knowing you can fall.

With Pennsylvania under me

I mean this simple makes it more autobiographical for her, like if we didn’t know her was her that was the me , now we really do.

Are there still beautiful things?

This is speaks to her nostalgia for this time period and serves to highlight how much she misses it. She wishes she was young and innocent and had that freedom of playing in the trees and above the creek and feeling like she’s flying just because she’s standing upright on the swing. This is meant to be her “peak”.

Sweet tea in the summer

Cross your heart, won't tell no other

The first line is setting up mood again, it’s innocence and suburbia and freedom and the hot days of summer vacation. The second is a common English phrase - for the ESL folks - that means “let’s keep a secret”. It’s extremely common for little girls especially to have secrets with each other. “You’re my best friend and I’ll tell you something I haven’t told anyone else before but cross your heart you won’t tell anyone else” is the kind of thing that has probably happened at a sleepover for every woman (gay or straight). So Tay’s whispering and telling secrets to her best friend aged seven in the heat of the summer and the neat rhymes kinda remind me of those clapping games you play as a kid.

And though I can't recall your face

I still got love for you

Again, I think this isn’t specific to gay kids necessarily - it’s that idea of having lifelong affection for your first best friend even when you don’t know where they are, can’t imagine them in adulthood, maybe can’t even remember their surname and frankly don’t really want to or care... but you still have warm feelings towards them.

Your braids like a pattern

Love you to the moon and to Saturn

So the friend is a girl. And here’s where the non wlw readers will have to work with me a little bit because as I’ve explained before a very common, enteral part of the queer female experience is obsession with other girls’ femininities. We notice things like hair and clothes and makeup on girls far more than straight girls seem to and waaay more than het guys do. A friend of mine who is v butch noticed like minor shit that any of us change in our appearance. Describing in detail a girl’s appearance feels - on a gut level - pretty gay. Now this isn’t a detailed description, but she links this physical trait - this pretty, braided hair her friend has - to loving her.

Now, she is a child in this story. This isn’t a sexual kind of thing in the child’s mind. She’s obviously not “in love” with her friend aged seven. But she is saying her deep, overwhelming love for her friend is inextricably linked - via rhyme scheme - to her feminine appearance.

This incredibly close, quasi homoerotic friendship is a near universal wlw experience and I’m sorry but it differs from straight girls’ close friendships because it’s... a lot. It is “love you to the moon and to Saturn” and obsessing over her clothes and hair and little habits.

And there’s no vocab for this, nothing to prepare you for it and nobody bats an eye because little girls are supposed to be friends with one another but like... you’re way overinvested and often that other girl isn’t and starts to drift away because she isn’t having this language free connection and it’s legit heartbreaking.

Passed down like folk songs

The love lasts so long

This childhood friendship becomes an anecdote, a moment of folkloric storytelling, but it never completely fades away and tapping into this first - not quite sexual but very sapphic - experience is super easy.

And I've been meaning to tell you

I think your house is haunted

Your dad is always mad and that must be why

And I think you should come live with

Me and we can be pirates

This sets up the narrative some people - I understand where y’all are coming from and I am here for it - hear of domestic abuse. The thing is, it’s not Tay’s character who is getting abused. Tay is a small child - and she’s envious of and nostalgic for that era of her life, when she thought that her best best best friend’s asshole dad was simply reacting to ghosts. It speaks to an innocence her character has which may not be shared by her friend, the girl with the braids.

But Tay is innocent and she says “come with me” and run away so we can be pirates together. Now, on a very basic and superficial pop culture level it’s worth noting Keira Knightley in POTC is pretty fundamental to any queer millennial woman’s sexual awakening. However, that’s not what Tay’s referencing here. She’s saying, at least on some level, let’s run away and be gender nonconforming. Again, she’s a small child. She doesn’t know why she wants that. But she doesn’t tell her friend “let’s run away and be princesses” - she wants to be a pirate. It links to the first scene in the song of her being a tomboy in the trees and on the swing, honestly. There were also a number of cross dressing female pirates, many of whom were gay back in the day so it’s a subtle nod to how a lot of childhood fantasies actually are rooted in possible historical fact.

But also come on, every queer girl wanted to be a pirate idk why really we just did. Like I say I can explain it as a desire not to conform to gender norms but it’s also just... another weirdly common fantasy that she’s tapping into.

Like idk this song is so fucking gay and it’s not trying to be but every line is just... felt in my bones. Like little me is seen by this song.

Then you won't have to cry

Or hide in the closet

This is obvi the line people go on about and look. The friend’s dad is clearly an asshole like that’s established. But the line has a double meaning. She’s saying if you run away with me to be a pirate on the high seas you won’t have to cry anymore and you won’t hide in the closet. It’s an innocent thought but it’s also a double meaning, right? You won’t be abused, you won’t be sad. And you’ll be with me out of the closet. It could’ve been “hide under the bed” or “behind the curtains”. But she picked closet. And that word gives this verse a second meaning, which is particularly palpable given as I say this is a very gay song from a thematic standpoint.

And just like a folk song

Our love will be passed on

Again, this is a deeeeep love. This is someone she wants to run away with. And she probably doesn’t know why, she probably doesn’t have the words. She’s a little kid. But this friend of hers is the person she wants to rescue and run away with and be together with even though she - Tay - is pretty content otherwise. In fact, she longs for this time in her life. It was full of beautiful things. And yet despite being happy, she was willing to drop it all for her little female friend she was clearly preoccupied with.

Please picture me

In the weeds

Before I learned civility

I used to scream

Ferociously

Any time I wanted

I, I

Again, this reiterates she is nostalgic for this time period. It was a good time in Taylor’s life. It was a time when she could be herself, before she had learned civility and what was expected from her by society. Which ties back to that thing I said right in the beginning, about how this first quasi sapphic friendship is cherished by queer women because we didn’t know it was weird. We hadn’t “learned civility” yet. We could scream, we could run around and climb trees, and we could ask our friends to run away with us not knowing those thoughts didn’t occur to them with the same intensity.

Sweet tea in the summer

Cross my heart, won't tell no other

And though I can't recall your face

I still got love for you

We’ve discussed this already. It’s still queer coded to me.

Pack your dolls and a sweater

We'll move to India forever

Passed down like folk songs

Our love lasts so long

So she’s once again cementing the fact that this is a little female friend with the dolls, and again suggests running away together and says even though none of that happened and she grew up and realized this... was actually a fairly specific experience not a universal universal one and she learned civility and heteronormativity but this foundational, pure, innocent gay love... will always remain in its complete innocuous harmlessness but immense power.

And so, yeah. This song is probably Taylor’s gayest shortly followed by Treacherous.

But if it means something else to you, I’m by no means taking it away. Anyone can enjoy her music in any way they like.

It’s just weird that most queer women feel their childhood selves are completely seen by this song if it was a complete accident 🤷🏻‍♀️

#tw domestic violence #tw domestic abuse #sapphic themes in tay’s music

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neednothavehappenedtobetrue · 3 years ago

Text

okay. this is a post about a new character, who is a person in the same 'verse as the main one for Robert and Isabelle, sci-fi and spaceships. she is a pastor in the one specific "limits on technology" religion I made up, but also, she is very cool. she does not live on their main terraformed colony, she lives in another colony with some definite cultural differences.

I am mostly posting this for my own future reference. there are definitely people who will enjoy Gwendolyn a lot, even with the extensive trigger tag situation here, but I think "a short story that has space for more nuance" would be a better venue for her than "my thoughts from Skype at 4AM"

if you do decide to read this, check the tags first, please

shoutout to @anonymus-maximus-er for being my thought partner on this.

but as I understand it now, there are, like , degrees of Intensity in Church Of Man

like, even their chillest followers are kind of intense about it because it's hard to be real, real chill about "god said we were only allowed to use these specific fifteen technologies" or whatever the exact rules are

but as far as incubators go, Aimee's community, the one you saw, would definitely have been like "well, too bad God wants that baby to die" and there are some other communities which would be more like "okay, probably make sure your baby does not die, do what you've gotta do there, but don't come back and talk to us afterwards"

and also for sure there are communities like "do literally whatever you have to do to make sure your baby does not die, we will be here with whole-made casseroles when you're home again"

and like, could some of those kids have benefitted from subsequent quality-of-life stuff they didn't get? probably, yes

to varying degrees

but hopefully Aimee finds a nice community where she can be like "this is so important to me but my babies and I experienced a bunch of technology in order to not die and we got excommunicated."

and they're like "wow that sounds like a lot of Not Your Fault would you like some whole-made casseroles and toddler clothes?"

and she's like "I got excommunicated" and they're like "did you know, perhaps you didn't, that there is no Central Authority for every Church Of Man church in the galaxy? there for sure is not! the people from New Maryland often pretend they are, but we didn't vote for them! your old pastor is just not at all the boss of us, is the thing"

that is the future epilogue I want for Aimee

I feel like the Tau Ceti Church of Man community is small and some people think they're weird, but they're nice neighbors. their pastor is a woman named Gwendolyn or something who is just constantly mad about Richard Brinton That Fucking Asshole

she has never called him any of those words because of decorum, she has just spent a lot of time talking to new people like "wow you seem very traumatized did you know he is not the boss of us?"

"we don't have a pope!"

"we've tried to have a council a few times, but it's logistically complicated"

"every church is supposed to make its own rules in accordance with the texts"

"yes, I have read every single one of his missives to the world, I know which bits of the Texts you probably have memorized, here are some bits I like a lot"

Gwendolyn has some opinions

like, churches are supposed to set their own rules about "necessary" technologies and she has quietly labeled almost all life-saving medical technology "necessary"

meanwhile, Brinton thinks it's necessary for him to have access to telecommunications equipment to he can send his editorials all over the galaxy, so people can be Educated

huh

of course, he does not actually physically touch the telecommunications equipment, he keeps like four people who know how to use it around so they can spread his word, but also, huh

the thing about Gwendolyn is that she has spent a long time watching traumatized New Marylanders join her community, many of them quite young and quite traumatized

also, she was never a New Marylander, she is fourth-generation Tau Ceti, which, crucially

means that her first set of principles is "Church Stuff, Misc" and her second set of principles, right there after the first is "you're not the boss of me"

even if somebody could point to actual scripture that said they were the boss of her, she would have some trouble with it, but some dude! who cannot point to anything at all! no justification whatsoever! nothing in the texts even a little bit! keeps trying to be the boss of her! and also keeps traumatizing all of the people in his community pretty badly! and making everyone else look like jerks!

"I'm more conservative than you, therefore, I am the boss of you"

NOPE

not for Gwendolyn

Gwendolyn votes in every local election and votes for her Senator, who she has met and quite likes. she occasionally goes to protests when the local government does some dipshit thing, but the Tau Ceti local government is pretty well-behaved because if it's not the citizenry will absolutely be like "fuck you, you're not the boss of me" at its government

she has some Very Big Opinions about debtor employment. she's not thrilled about the like, severity of the gang situation in her city, but she doesn't have a lot of optimism that the Government is gonna fix it, so she does community groups instead

also, in recognition of the fact that she can't just throw these traumatized New Marylanders right off into the personal autonomy deep end she is like "okay, if you need someone to tell you what to do sometimes, I will be the temporary boss of you until you are ready to be the boss of you"

she does not Love that aspect of her job, but sometimes you gotta

you can't bring people from "obedience all the time" to "you must make every choice in your life with no backup" overnight, they'll just collapse in on themselves or become targets for worse people

so she does the thing

she and Brinton have a <very> passive aggressive correspondence going as church leaders

there are many many long letters back and forth

they are very polite and also, if any of them are preserved, historians will find them fascinating

"wow these people just fucking loathed each other"

Anonymus, 5:05 AM

your obedient servant, A. Burr

5:05 AM

if they did not live on separate planets, legitimately maybe

like, if she could get to Brinton's house on a horse to yell at him in person, she would have by now

she didn't swear a lot in real life, but sometimes she wanted to

she got real good at saying "that man" or "sugar" or "nonsense" in A Tone, but you could tell

I can't decide if she has a husband or a wife

Aimee's church definitely thinks gay people are Modern and therefore Wrong, but like

I feel like probably their specific religious texts don't even have that much on being nice to people? like, there's definitely a few pages on like "kindness is an ancient value, we hold fast to ancient values, these are them"

but it's like 70% Rules Minutiae

it's also not a super long book

so everybody has very different opinions about how to interpret the Rules Minutiae in light of the 30% of the book that's like "here are our actual values"

"modesty" and "fidelity" are both in the Ancient Values bits for sure

and I feel like different denominations went in different directions on the "modesty" and "fidelity" implications of "gay people"

no, I've decided, Gwendolyn definitely has a wife

show her in the actual rules where she can't have a wife

yes, fidelity, that thing she has with her wife

Anonymus, 5:13 AM

can the wife be a very proper rebbetzin?

organises all the casserole chains

5:14 AM

yes, she can definitely organize all of the casserole chains

5:18 AM

right

Gwendolyn's wife's name is Tara and she came from an Earth Church of Man community where they were like "technically it's not illegal for you to be gay, but, like, ehhhh? we'd rather you didn't and also you definitely cannot have children if you're gay"

5:20 AM

and she got to Tau Ceti and met Gwendolyn who even in college was like "show me in the texts where it says I cannot have a wife."

"show me."

Anonymus, 5:21 AM

sounds like excellent breeding ground for Very Textually and Theologically Conversant, but not actually a religious authority

5:21 AM

the thing is, Tau Ceti is Bad At Authority

if they had a motto on their coins it would just be "you're not the boss of me" but maybe in Latin

but maybe not even in Latin because people who know Latin often think they are the boss of you

Anonymus, 5:22 AM

WHO MADE U KING

5:22 AM

for real

I think there is a dude who is technically the "boss" of Gwendolyn and they take turns giving the sermons and calibrating which parishoners they support based on like, communication styles in a way that often ends up with just all of the women and queer folks being Gwendolyn's people

she is smarter than him, he handles all of the Local Politics things that require you not to go "EXCUSE me, where is the LAW ABOUT THAT"

Anonymus, 5:24 AM

different type of smart

5:24 AM

if he ever tried to pull rank on her, she would either be so startled that it would work or she would unhinge her jaw and eat him

so he's never tried

he doesn't want to! very few people on Tau Ceti even want to be in charge, both because it's like herding cats who will hate you if they catch you herding them and because the finely honed distrust of authority doesn't go away when you become authority

Anonymus, 5:26 AM

"I'm pretty sure I'm up to some bullshit"

5:27 AM

yeah, Gwendolyn spends a lot of time with these sad transplants from other communities, nearly all of them women (because for SOME REASON women tend to get excommunicated WAY MORE OFTEN. HUH. are there ADDITIONAL RULES for WOMEN? I DON'T SEE ANY)

and they're like "please I am so sad and scared just tell me what to do"

and she wants to be like "I am not the boss of you, you have to be the boss of you" but they often are not ready for that, so she just tries to get a sense of what they want to do or what might be healthiest for them and tells them her strong recommendation is that they do that thing

everyone in her community knows she is passionate and can get fired up about some of this stuff, she doesn't hide that, but also, there are some conversations she (a only has with her wife and also (b has had with her wife a number of times

they are basically "our community is like 55% traumatized exiles from other communities and like 30% traumatized people from This One Dude's Community specifically. he traumatizes women and girls and girls he calls women and gay people and parents with sick babies!"

"we have so so many people we take care of now who are so so shaken and traumatized and sad"

"and we only get the people who don't leave the faith entirely!"

"it's not fair! it's not fair that he gets to do that! it's not fair!"

because when you carry the faces of like twenty good people all traumatized by the same garbage person and all you can do is try to take care of them and send passive-aggressive letters, sometimes it sucks!

if they lived on the same planet and she could get there on a horse, she would have done something ill-advised by now. yelled, certainly

but then again, if she had been born on New Maryland she would be a super different person and if he had been born on Tau Ceti there would have been a hard upper limit on how much he could get anyone to listen to him

like, bad bullshit happens on Tau Ceti, but the first time he married a fourteen-year-old girl off to her rapist, his neighbors would have set him on fire

church of man neighbors, regular neighbors, possibly neighbors who are criminals, just all the neighbors

5:37 AM

so her wife listens to her cry and reads over her letters to Brinton to make sure she doesn't actually say anything Too Impolitic (I think her boss also reads them, but he's less invested)

and her wife has these new folks over for dinner and helps them find clothes for their kids and adapt their modesty rules to the thing where it's like, as hot as it is possible to be in Tau Ceti

5:38 AM

like, most of the summer it's like 120 degrees, on a brisk day in December it drops into like, the low nineties

5:39 AM

sometimes people from other communities are like "we do modesty more modestly than they do" and they have to be like "okay, your choices are us dressing this way or us using air conditioning, because people do die in real life of heatstroke sometimes, that is a thing that can kill you"

also, even before Gwendolyn came along, her previous pastor was definitely like "we're gonna make electric fans permissible. we're just... heatstroke sure does kill you in real life"

"particularly in Modest Dress"

she liked him. they had meetings like twice a month when she was young because she had A Lot of questions and her parents were less invested in the answers than she was

when she was like twelve, he was like "maybe they'll give you my job one day" and she was like "I don't want your job! you're the boss of people!" and he was like "they very much would not give you my job if you wanted my job, kiddo"

(even 50% of the organized crime leaders on Tau Ceti are like "hey, I'm not the boss of anybody, I'm just a guy you don't want to fuck with because of all of the friends that I have got"

"I am not the boss of you, but I do have this gun")

5:49 AM

final thought on Gwendolyn: she had a real hard time when Robert Thompson died, because that dude thought her faith was a good reason to murder a husband and father.

and like, that dude is a fucking asshole, obviously, but it's hard

and then Brinton puts out an editorial about it and it is the only time Gwendolyn and Tara's children ever hear one of their mothers swear

because she is usually super meticulous about that

but also, sometimes

there is a limit

she makes several attempts before she writes him her next letter and the subtext of the entire letter is just "fuck you SO much, I do not generally believe in Hell, however, I will make an exception"

there is a limit! a man is dead and his wife and daughter are grieving and then a dude who everyone thinks is, like, the pope of her puts out some bullshit like "of course we don't do hate crimes but also that dude who got murdered deserved it" bullshit

there is a limit she is past it!

5:53 AM

also, they have seven adopted kids

#rape for ts #religion for ts #religious abuse for ts #there is a bit about babies dying in here #because their religion does not always allow for medical technology #I don't know what the succinct tag is for that #hate crimes for ts #organized crime for ts #is that a thing?#guns for ts #briefly #the ghost and the machine #as inappropriate as the gun #her tag would be #show me in the texts #I might legitimately need to write this

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yurimother · 5 years ago

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Top Yuri Anime Poll Results

Whether it is subtext or explicit, cute or sexy, school love or gay action thrillers I love yuri anime. These series either focus on or contain elements of female same-sex relationships. Pride month is the perfect time to look back and reflect on the best of this genre. I teamed up with OG Man of The Yuri Nation (yurination[dot] wordpress[dot] com/) and together we put out a poll asking what you thought the top yuri anime series were and over 1000 of you responded submitting almost 5000 different entries. We spent hours combing through the data, analyzing and commenting on the results and we would like to share our thoughts with all of you. Enjoy the reflections of me the yuri critic and OG the dedicated yuri fan!

These are the Top 20 Yuri Anime as voted by you

1. Bloom Into You - 692 Votes

OG: Be it East or West the YagaKimi took the world by storm. Citrus and BiY once again taking the top two spots remains unsurprising.There is something undeniably fascinating about our leading ladies consisting of an asexual slowly coming to love her senpai back but restraining herself for various reasons. The biggest one being said senpai having a deep case of self-loathing and a fear of romantic reciprocation, also for various reasons. She is like “I love you but please do not love me back”. Then there is one of the most popular “cursed” lesbians of all time in Sayaka, the fantastic adult side-couple (The world needs an anime starring lesbian adults/mothers) and the various other characters who have their own interesting tales to tell. The series absolutely deserves a spot in the Top 10 though it would not be in my personal Top 3. Oh and as Yurimother said the presentation was fantastic.Visually stunning from start to finish in my opinion. Special mention goes to the criminally underused first-person “camera”. So cool.

YuriMother: I agree with this series deserving a spot in the top ten even if not the number one slot. For me, it was good but not great. Moments such as the aforementioned adult couple as well as stellar art and a phenomenal score made this series enjoyable but they were not enough to overshine the problems of the narrative. For the love of the Yuri Goddess, this series is crying out for asexual representation but insists on carrying on with its confused romance. Enough complaining though, many people love Bloom Into You despite its faults and I agree. The characters are interesting and lovable and it manages to tell a yuri story more real and complex than the typical fluffy girl meets girl narratives.

2. Citrus - 452 Votes

YuriMother: The presence of Citrus and Bloom Into You prove two things to me, the importance of recency, as both anime aired only last year, and the sheer popularity of these series. Both had established and extremely successful manga runs which were adapted into English by the publishing masters of yuri, Seven Seas. Citrus is a contentious series, to say the least, as it includes elements of (non-blood related) incest and non-consensual actions as part of Mei and Yuzu’s “relationship.” However, if you possess the magical power to turn off the part of your brain screaming at you that those aspects are deeply problematic or if you seek a different interpretation then Citrus can be downright WONDERFUL. I actually loved this anime series for its characters, amazing animation, and salaciousness. As OG said, it is an operatic concussion of emotion (seriously everyone in the series needs therapy) but my is it fun to watch. The Citrus anime also holds a special place in my heart, as the first serious piece I ever wrote was a review for it over on Okazu (nice plug)! Citrus is certainly not for everyone but those that stuck with it and overlooked some of the problems ended up loving it.

OG: Here we are again with Citrus at #2. My thoughts on the series remains the same as in the previous two lists I discussed (the Akiba Research and goo Ranking Japan lists), overrated. Good soap opera/telenovela-esque series but my feelings on the cast are mixed (which I imagine was the writer’s intent). My main issue has always been the obstacles repeatedly challenging Yuzu and Mei’s feelings for each other instead of it focusing on “Hey. We like each other but our parents got married. What do we do? Can we keep our desires for each other in check?”. Instead it is one newcomer after another who want to eat either Yuzu or Mei and Yuzu repeatedly asking herself if she really wants robo-stepsister patties? I will give the anime adaptation credit. The story was easier to enjoy animated than drawn. It also helped that I grew up in a telenovela loving family. The characters’ actions, reactions and emotions were depicted better in the anime. I still consider the show’s greatest accomplishment being the humanization of Mei-Tron. In the manga it took a post-epilogue continuation to show readers “Hey everyone. Mei-Tron was human all along.” whereas in the anime I sensed the small bit of humanity quicker than in the manga where I continued seeing her as a block of wood with a brain up to the point where I dropped it. Harumin though is the greatest regardless of anime or manga adaptation. Bless her. Regardless of how I feel about the series I get its massive popularity. After all, were the rest of the story to get an animated continuation I would gladly pick it up...Not the manga though.

3. Sakura Trick - 342 Votes

OG: There are fans who understandably would disagree with Sakura Trick’s praise but I will always defend it and the anime as one of the very best in the genre. First off it aired at a time where animated on-screen close up kisses (specifically consensual ones) between ladies were rare. Haruka X Yuu’s relationship was believable for the most part. Even their season finale resolution, them not getting what being “in love” meant at the time, made sense though I get why it left some scratching their heads. Probably not the best “manga lure/bait” end I suppose. On the bright side Kotone X Shizuku’s story definitely did not have the two doubting their true feelings for each other. I do hope Kaede X Yuzu eventually hooked up in the manga as they too had potential to be a lovely couple.

YuriMother: Sakura Trick has no real narrative, no great insight, and offers little intellectually. As a teacher, it makes me furious, as a fan of yuri, elated. The anime is beloved for its plentiful soft service, presenting a plethora of kisses, cuddles, and awkward thigh shots (ew). However, it was one of the first anime to include this much explicit yuri service without being pornographic. All the characters were cute and fun, even if there was little in the way of development or complexity, it worked for the series. If you want something to make you think or to learn about yuri, pass over this one. But, if you want a cute and meaningless anime definitely watch it.

4. Yuru Yuri - 337 Votes

YuriMother: OG may not be a fan of Yuru Yuri but I certainly am, which is fairly obvious to anyone who observes that a solid 20% of my communications occur in the form of gifs from this series. It is hilarious, cute, and playful. Just like Sakura Trick, this anime is an easy watch with ultimately little substance. However, the part of me that is not rolling of the floor laughing every time I watch Yuru Yuri lives in a state of pained existence with the knowledge that this work of all things ended up being so popular when people are telling interesting stories about queer women and people in actual relationship that manage to still be funny and adorable while having something to say.

OG: The undisputed most mainstream friendly yuri series there is. It is also one of the funniest. My one gripe is that excluding a select few the main draw of the show besides the comedy and yuri is the ship wars, meaning (almost any girl can be shipped with each other). Not a fan of that but hey, it brought Namori the big bucks so who am I to judge? In any case not much else to add. It deserves all the adulation it gets but the free for all shipping irks me. Reminds me of how they botched Chika X Riko in the Love Live! Sunshine!! Anime. If you were going down the Riko X Yohane route from the start then why give us Chika X Riko in the first half? Ship wars yo. Tch. Hopefully I properly explained myself..

5. Kase-san and Morning Glories (Asagao to Kase-san) - 289 Votes

OG: Still wish this got a 12-13 episode anime. The glorious movie showed how much it deserves one. Whether it will happen or not remains to be seen. In any case the beauty of Kase-san X Yamada is how simple their romance is. No strings attached whatsoever. It is as straightforward as a self-proclaimed “ordinary” cutie, Yamada, having a crush on the super cool school beauty Kase-san. Said beauty is revealed to be just as “adorkable” as Yamada. The other highlight is their story not ending once they officially started dating (as is the case with many romance stories) but that being only the beginning, like real life. From then on, side-stories aside, the two biggest challenges for the two is Yamada accepting that it is okay for someone as “ordinary” as her to be the “cool babe”s girlfriend and Kase-san finding different ways to express her love/hunger for the cutie. As for the OVA, cramming the second part of the first series in an hour definitely had the downside of excluding some important moments, yes, but it at least covered some of the best moments in the manga. The first half of the story was summarized in a five-minute music video. One last thing. The animation, though a bit too brought for some, was glorious. It also had some long pauses which were effective (The bus stop scene being the most infamous) but while I did not mind them at all even I will admit some pauses went a bit too long. A small nitpick all things considered. Fingers crossed one day we either get that 12-13 episode anime for the first series, the sequel or both. That is one of my dreams.

YuriMother: At last, an anime that I do not have to react cynically to! Kase-san is one of the single greatest works of yuri animation to ever to be created and its glory is rivaled only by the manga from which it originated. Despite being only a one hour long OVA this adaption told such an engaging and realistic (finally) story of romance and personal growth. We get to skip the meatless girl meets girls arcs and get into the depth and complexity as Yamada and Kase work to further their relationship. They struggle with the fact that they are two different people who want different things out of life and love and have to actually work on their partnership. Kase-san also includes signs of physical affection and love that are never lewd, immature, or gross, I do not even think I could refer to them as “service”. However, for me, Kase-san’s greatest victory (both the anime and manga) is in its escape from school romance, which in this genre is often a shelter from reality, allowing for women to be in relationships without actually being queer. Kase and Yamada instead make an effort to continue their romance and build a life that includes their relationship once they graduate in a triumphant final act. This anime is a slap in the face to the class S stories and sloppily sexualized works which proliferate the yuri genre. Asagao to Kase-san shines as a holy beacon for the greatness that this genre can achieve.

6. Puella Magi Madoka Magica - 286 Votes

YuriMother: Hurray!! For two entries in a row, I get to talk about series that I wholeheartedly adore without having to constantly attach caveats. Puella Magi Madoka Magica is not considered by all to be yuri, and that is certainly not what it is best known for. PMMM is however famous for twisting the tropes of the magical girl genre and creating one of the most cohesive and thoughtful narratives ever put to screen. This series summoned a new era for the magical girl genre (what OG humorously referred to as the “Moepocalypse”) but no other title managed to top Madoka Magica’s runaway success. Every aspect of this work is highly polished including character designs, a phenomenal soundtrack, and superb writing. This is not only the definitive work of its genre but of all postmodern anime. Whether or not one is a fan of yuri every anime fan should give Madoka Magica a watch.

OG: Meduka Meguca. Its impact in the “Moepocalypse” (Shows where cute and sexy girls consistently suffering physically and emotionally. These are usually dark magical girl shows.) genre and legacy are undeniable. It deserves all the praise it gets. It scarred many unfortunate souls, Homura is a legend in yuridom, Kyouko X Sayaka are glorious (Especially in Rebellion), Meduka’s Mom Junko is a Top Tier Sexy Mama, Charlotte the Witch is a very strange girlfriend and of course Hitomi is a walking anti-fun meme. The animation, especially the creepy doodle like monsters known as Witches are memorable. However, it is not my favorite Moepocalypse show. That honor goes to Yuki Yuna is a Hero.

7. Strawberry Panic - 224 Votes

OG: Like it or not Strawberry Panic is a yuri classic. I have a strong feeling that like many readers around my age (31 during this writing) this was their first 100% yuri anime. The cheese is real but it is the yummy kind of cheese and I loved almost every minute of it, except Amane X Hikari. That was the weakest of the love stories going on. Poor Yaya trying too hard (Not saying this in condescending way. She literally tried too hard). It is like a young adult lesbian novel but more fun. I mean Nagisa X Shizuma might as well be “Lesbian Twilight but not crappy”. Let us be honest, Shizuma is a vampire. Chikaru is an undisputed goddess and Kagome is the cutest.

Oh and I will repeat this statement till my last breath…

#TamaoWasRobbed.

YuriMother: I may be almost a decade younger than OG but even for me Strawberry Panic was my first yuri and it more than earns its nickname as the “gateway yuri,” although last year’s Citrus and Bloom Into You may be presenting serious contenders for this title. If for no other reason than nostalgia, Strawberry Panic remains my favorite yuri works but this ridiculous soap-opera of an anime does deserve a fair amount of recognition. I see Strawberry Panic as the culmination of the S subgenre revived by Maria Watches Over Us. However, this work succeeds at both parodying many of the tropes of S and yuri while breaking a few. However, its greatest accomplishment is introducing many of the young western fans of yuri to the genre. Strawberry Panic, you are an overly dramatic mess but thank you for all you have done.

8. Revolutionary Girl Utena - 176 Votes

YuriMother: Another gem of the yuri genre, actually scratch that, if works like Kase-san are gems then Utena is the minerals from which gems form. I think that is how it works, I am not a geologist. My poor analogies and subtle nods to Steven Universe aside, Revolutionary Girl Utena is one of the single most important works of yuri anime, possibly even more so than Sailor Moon. These two works were the dawn of the current age of yuri, an era spurn on by social progress and the internet into a place where more yuri works featuring honest depictions of homosexuality are flourishing. Utena laid the groundwork for queer representation in anime and for that I remain forever grateful to this masterpiece.

OG: I must confess. While I saw the movie long ago and thought it was cool I have yet to sit down and finish watching the main series. I cannot say much about this show other than it is another yuri classic. Possibly one of the biggest. I think I will leave this to Her Holiness because even if I had seen it I do not consider myself someone who possesses the sufficient intellect to properly explain why this is a legendary show.

9. Flip Flappers - 132 Votes

OG: I would need an essay to explain why this show is legendary. Let me see. It is a story of a girl who discovered her gayness thanks to her growing attraction to a lovable idiot/genki. There are references to Western media, dimension hopping (including Class S Hell), self-discovery, a sexual orientation journey, a tree, armored wedding gowns, crazy third wheels, Ku Klux Klan stand-ins…You know what? Just watch Flip Flappers. It is a hot mess of random, crazy, creative and thought provoking awesomeness with a wonderful dose of gayness. Glory be to PapiCoco. However, as Her Holiness mentioned this is essentially Ikuhara-san levels of weirdness (though not as complicated I feel) but as the plot thickens it all (sort of) starts making sense...eventually. That tree yo.

YuriMother: Flip Flappers was almost too strange and abstract even for me, and that is saying something. However, upon further examination, one of the most interesting works of yuri is revealed. This heavily stylized anime delves deep into the sexual maturation of its protagonist while examining the yuri genre and representation in media. Flip Flappers is the perfect marriage of heavy visual style and intellectual substance. Definitely give them one a.. err better make that three watches, as you will want to be sure to get everything out of this beautiful series as possible.

10. Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid - 131 Votes

YuriMother: This series is the closest anime fans have to a lesbian couple having a family that we have, and that is a shame. I LOVE family narratives, outside of the yuri genre Usagi Drop is my favorite anime. To me, seeing women balance life, a relationship, and children is some of the best queer representation there is. However, for every point in Kobayashi’s favor, there is also a glaring fault. Kobayashi is a modern woman in the workforce providing for herself and her “family,” but is borderline abusive to Tohru. Kanna is an inquisitive child being raising by two women, but there are weirdly sexual scenes featuring her. As previously mentioned on this list, if one can silence the reasonable part of the brain this work becomes enjoyable, hilarious, and adorable. Unfortunately, its faults prevent it from being more than an amusement and I seriously doubt that they will fade in the second season. But hey, it sells a ton of figures so… YAY!

OG: This series is one of the closest yuri fans have to a series starring a lesbian couple with a daughter and it is wonderful. Is the tale of an eternally grateful dragon who wanted to repay the human who saved her life, albeit drunk, by becoming her live-in maid. Tohru being a dragon girl had incredible power and could easily crush everyone in sight but preferred to try and understand humanity so she could live in peace with the woman she loved. It of course was hard at times but thanks to Miss Kobayashi slowly growing to accept her back (romantically she had a ways to go) and the two raising the adorable bundle of mighty puff known as Kanna they became a happy family. How long this relationship will last and whether Miss Kobayashi would come to fully love Tohru back romantically remains to be seen. I have high hopes it can and will happen. Kanna X Riko is precious (Yes. Even that scene). We even have a potential BL couple, which is nice. Not a fan of Lucoa X Shouta the shota. Not because of the age gap but it not being my kind of romantic comedy. It is the same reason I have a hard time buying Tsubame X Misha from UzaMaid. Mya-Nee X Hana from Wataten...maybe. At least Mya-Nee showed she is patient. Back to Dragon Maid. Great series. Naughty of course but great.

11. Sweet Blue Flowers (Aoi Hana) - 119 Votes

OG: Megane girl falls for a cutie but has a hard time confessing to her to the point she gives a relationship with another girl a try. Said other girl has troubles of her own courtesy of her own views on what love. Do not get me started on the OTHER girl who likes megane’s girlfriend. I did not even mention megane girl’s first love interest who she herself eventually begins questioning her feelings for the glasses wearing maiden. While this is well known throughout the history of yuri anime Aoi Hana made it clearer than ever that Yuri + Classical Music go hand in hand. Plus the show is quite pretty. Ultimately enjoyment of this series depends heavily on viewers’ patience.

YuriMother: Aoi Hana was ahead of its time in many regards. Most yuri during the early twenty-first century was unrealistic and melodramatic, especially with the revival of S stories. Aoi Hana instead presents a calm and realistic story that we still rarely see in yuri anime today. Instead of relying on tricks like service or comedy Aoi Hana presents a serene and character-driven story which is matched by equally calming scenery. It is certainly not the most thrilling watch, but a slow and beautiful slice of real life that remains one of the all-time strongest yuri works.

12. Yurikuma Arashi - 99 Votes

YuriMother: Yurikuma Arashi is strange, to say the least, but this is not out of the ordinary for legendary director Ikuhara, who also directed Utena. Parallels are easily drawn between this work and Flip Flappers, as they are both complex and encoded with enough symbolism to drown a bear. Yurikuma is one of my favorite works in the yuri genre and I have had more than a few heated discussions about interpretations of the work, including one memorable occasion when I was visiting a college professor and we ended up in a shouting match in the middle of the hall. However, while Flip Flappers holds a high degree of polish the same can, unfortunately, not be said here. Yurikuma Arashi has more than a few scenes of fanservice many of which overly fetishize the characters and relationship and some of the symbols, particularly lily flowers and the word “yuri” are practically beaten to death with an object I refuse to come up with because I am starting to have my fill of symbolism. However, despite some of its sloppiness, Yurikuma is one of the single most interesting and well-formed anime out there and analyzing it is practically a right of passage for seasoned yuri fans.

OG: Yurikuma Arashi is my favorite of Ikuhara-san’s series. To me it was the least complicated of his works but even so I needed help to understand the show. Luckily I had plenty of assistance. The meat of the story is more complicated but put simply it is about a war between a group of bear girls (and some human girls) who want to freely express their love and/or desire/hunger for each other and another group that amounts to Right to Censor from WWF. Like I said it is far more complex than that but that is the gist. The anime is quite ecchi and it has good reason for it. Again the gay bears are the more liberated of the groups and them getting more sexy scenes is meant to showcase that. Our heroine has good reason to be grumpy and a divine entity was introduced alongside a certain someone from a certain dark anime we already discussed.

In the end it is a show starring lesbian bear girls. I love love stories between women and i love bears. It was obvious I would end up enjoying this one. Like other complex stories it is not for everyone. Shows like Flip Flappers, Utena and Yurikuma have something of a learning people will have to get accustomed to in order to enjoy them.

13. Whispered Words (Sasameki Koto) - 88 Votes

OG: To me Aoi Hana and Sasameki Koto were always connected despite the former being a drama and the latter a comedy. Both star a female protagonist struggling with how to best tell the girl she likes her true feelings whereas their love interest for one reason or another makes it all the more challenging to get their feelings across. Both shows aired during a time yuri was not as popular of a genre as it would become over time. Perhaps if they had come out a little later when yuri was becoming more popular in the mainstream they would have fared better…Then again they may have helped set the groundwork for future yuri shows so it’s just as well they came out when they did. In any case both good shows worthy of “best of yuri” lists. SK has the dynamic of the megane in love and her somewhat airheaded love interest who specifically likes “cute girls”. Poor megane has a hard time figuring out what the airhead defines as “cute”. The show also features an amusing side-couple of an ojou-sama and her tsundere girlfriend. Not to mention the somewhat controversial side-girl who plays a more prominent role in the 2nd half of the anime. Heck, even Mr Crossdresser himself is cool. Let us not forget Miss “Ha Ha Ha!” Another really good show that I would love to see the rest of the manga get animated someday but considering most anime are essentially manga commercials and the SK manga ended the odds of a 2nd season are close to 0.

YuriMother: 2009 was a great year for yuri anime, with both Sasameki Koto and Aoi Hana, among other works, airing. But while Aoi Hana sought to resist many of the common tropes of the genre and tell a simple grounded story Sasameki Koto appears to have looked a the list of every convention possible and say “yeah I can do that.” It has melodrama, comedy, one-sided love, friend love stories, I worship this genre but even I think there is a limit. However, Sasameki Koto is one of the most competent yuri anime works of the current era. While all the tropes are present most of the problematic aspects of the genre are not. The story is well written, characters enjoyable, and art that is really well done for the time. I enjoy every watch and if I ever want to quickly download the genre’s tropes into another person's head I need only duct tape them to a chair and throw on Sasameki Koto.

14. Riddle Story of Devil (Akuma no Riddle) - 77 Votes

YuriMother: Akuma no Riddle was highly anticipated back in 2014, sporting a premise of student assassins that, while certainly not unique, was outside the norms for the yuri genre. It promised a dark and thrilling take on the yuri genre that would not become popular until the yuri horror trend a few years later. At first, it looked like this would be successful with an excellent setup and some pretty compelling characters but ultimately Akuma no Riddle fell flat and became more derailed as it continued. The monster of the week style of episodes left little room for complex plots and plans or proper character development, which is a shame because of how engaging so many of the assassins were upon original presentation. However, this show still has some of the best action in the yuri genre, placing it alongside series like Cannan and Utena despite its flawed storytelling. If nothing else, the anime may compel one to read the manga, which expands the story and characters more than the show was given time to.

OG: Professional assassins secretly gathered at an academy in an attempt to take the life of a seemingly innocent cutie to win the ultimate prize, one of whom wishes to protect the adorable redhead. Yes the manga, which is pretty much a Director’s Cut, is better and the anime would have benefited from having 20+ episodes instead of 12 and a delightful beach OVA but the show did a good job of showing viewers what each assassin was like, their motivations (though many of their origin stories were summarized in written biographies during commercial breaks viewers needed to pause to read) were clear enough and the duels, as brief as some of them were, had enough spicy goodness in them to be memorable, especially the ones in the latter half of the show. Oh, and although the manga wrapped up after the anime it had a very similar ending.

15. Revue Starlight - 72 Votes

OG: Gay theater girls who strive to become the top star, meaning the best actress or lead actor of the cast. How do they do it? By working hard and overcoming their personal hardships? Yes. That. What makes this show so wonderful despite being almost a year old as of this writing is not only do the ladies all have interesting stories to tell but so does the stage. Every song, prop, movement, dance, gesture etc. It is like the performers and performances are united. It is like in Spongebob where not only does the person in the boots tell a story but the boots as well.

Oh yes. I almost forgot to mention the mysterious underground theater and talking giraffe. Never forget the talking giraffe from Hell. #Wakarimasu.

Super cool and super gay.

YuriMother: Bushiroad continuously gets better at what they do, creating media franchises of cute girls filled with music and making mountains of cash from smartphone games. Inspired by the likes of Love Live, they created BanG Dream and last year Revue Starlight. However, where these franchises fell short Revue Starlight success. It never twists its characters to tell a story but rather creates compelling arcs around them. I thoroughly enjoyed and agree with its place on this list.

16. Konohana Kitan - 68 Votes

YuriMother: I know of Konohana Kitan for its constant presence at yuri events more so than the anime or even the manga. It is adorable, relaxing, simple, and fun. While it does not add anything super substantial to the genre it does not take anything either or present any objectionable material. The “plot” is nonexistent but that does not matter, as it is not trying to tell a story or make commentary, just be fluffy and simple.

OG: Konohana Kitan to me is a Girls Club (Cute girls doing cute things) and iyashikei hybrid anime. It is visually stunning as it is relaxing with Yuzu pretty much one of the cutest demigoddesses in existence. She of course is a chick magnet but her heart will forever belong to Satsuki.

17. Destiny of the Shrine Maiden (Kannazuki no Miko) - 65 Votes

OG: The other stuff on the show is still not that great but ChiMeko will forever stand the test of time as far as I’m concerned. Top 10 for their love story alone. Yes. I know THAT ONE SCENE continues being controversial and talked about every time curious new yuri fans witness greatness…but I will forever defend Chikane because I get where she was coming from. Would I have done something different? Yes. The thing is you need to put yourself in her shoes and understand what she wanted to accomplish and how far she would go to get it done. Kotoha is best side-character and Souma Ogami is real man’s man who does not deserve the hate. He was an honorable warrior to the end. He fought well and accepted defeat like a man. Plus his yell is inspirational.

YuriMother: My feelings on Kannazuki no Miko are incredibly mixed. It has many of the worst facets of early current era yuri anime, tropes include S, rape and… am I reading this correctly, demon mechs? Worst of all it presents a cycle, a never-ending loop that haunts the characters in the overarching plot and it does not resolve it. If a work ever presents such an element, like Puella Magi did, it must be overcome or confronted at least. Its presence makes the already cringy story feels cheap and lazy. However, I love the two female leads and their difficult relationship. I love the music, especially the hauntingly beautiful ending theme, and the final moments of episode 11 are some of the greatest seconds I have ever seen in an anime. I cannot wrap my mind around my view of this series but at the end of the day, I understand it. I do not believe that work like it would ever be warmly accepted today but for its time it does stand as a breakout piece of yuri anime.

18. Princess Principal - 61 Votes

YuriMother: Princess Principal is one of the best anime of the past few years. It had everything, an interesting premise, great characters, an incredible soundtrack. Alongside all this is the sharp writing and thrilling story. Princess Principal did everything Akuma no Riddle wanted to with an intriguing and action-packed story featuring strong characters. On top of all this, the animation is top notch. A six-part movie sequel is planned which has me somewhat concerned, but I am glad to see that it is being continued as the ending to the series was one of its weakest aspects. Now if you will excuse me, I need to listen to some jazz.

OG: Cute and sexy gay spies in a dramatic British Steampunk setting. What more do readers need? Allow Her Holiness to elaborate a bit further. Currently waiting for the multi-part cinematic continuation.

19. Izetta: The Last Witch - 60 Votes

OG: I am known for loving shows people do not think as highly of. Izetta: The Last Witch is no different. I love this show so much. Besides how certain events transpired some complained about the depiction of WW2. Basically think about people ranting about storylines and content featured in certain Call of Duty and Battlefield games. Here however, it is clearly a fictional great war inspired by WW2. I was invested in the following:

-The cute and sexy ladies.

-Seeing two badass lesbians lead an army against an evil empire.

-FiZetta’s romance. This of course being the major highlight. I love FiZetta so much. My sexy lesbian babies and Anne X Grea’s mentors. They taught them everything they know after all.

It is similar to how I felt watching Kannazuki no Miko where my focus was primarily on the leading ladies’ developing romance. The difference is that unlike Kannazuki I was also somewhat entertained by our heroines’ enemies along with their allies. Basically viewers’ enjoyment of the show depends on how seriously they take their history and are willing to overlook the liberties this story takes with its depictions of the weapons, military and the familiar evil empire. FiZetta are one of my favorite lesbian couples of all time.

By the way, in that famous scene, yes they did. Viewers just have to squint their eyes to see “it”.

YuriMother: Another show that I consider to have squandered its potential. I know that lots of people enjoyed this one, including OG but I could not bring myself to finish this constantly mediocre series. Perhaps I am tired of alternative light-fantasy European-war inspired plots. Trying to stand out in this bloated genre is difficult and Izetta fails. Izetta started strong and hooked many viewers with its amazing visual and auditory polish but this was quickly lost in the plot which, while set up well, struggle to gain any ground of pay off what had been established. On the yuri side, it did not really do anything interesting or satisfying, with plenty of scenes feature the character’s standing next to each other looking cute and one or two moments of actual yuri. I am glad that some of you were able to enjoy this one more than me at least.

20. Maria Watches Over Us (Maria-sama ga Miteru) - 57 Votes

OG: Like Strawberry Panic this is a “Like it or not” classic. Despite being a Class S show it did its own thing and became a pioneer for . It’s also responsible for the many yuri jokes related to all-girl schools in anime.Shimako X Noriko best Grande and Petite Souer! Yumiko X Sachiko were great too as the two grew to better understand each other. Most memorable scene for me was the panda costume. Even Sei is a sleeper icon in all yuridom. Yoshino X Rei had a very interesting dynamic. I actually think they are the real pioneers of relationships between cousins. Thank you YoshiRei. HaruKana, Kaede X Sara and several others owe you two much appreciation.

YuriMother: Another great and significant series, Maria Watches Over Us, took the tropes of early yuri works, Catholic schools, a lack of men, piano scenes, and emotional relationship rather than physical ones and turned the dial up to 11. For better or worse, it single-handedly revived the Class S genre and was copied (and parodied) endlessly for over a decade. However much I complain about S I actually do not think that we would have the current age of yuri without its popularity and proliferation at the beginning of the century so I owe a big thank you to Maria Watches Over Us for that. Ignoring its historical importance and literary significance the anime still presents an engaging plot with wonderful characters and more butchered French than my last trip to Europe. It is certainly worth a watch and worthy of a place on this list.

What do you think should be on this list?:

YuriMother: As I previously said, this is a pretty perfect list. As far as missing titles I can think of the following.

Simoun - not the greatest in terms of plot or animation but it had cute service and a fun action-packed plot.

Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl - This series may be strange and present the dreaded love triangle but it did its best to tell a transgender narrative in 2006, naturally this involved aliens, and I applaud it for its attempts.

Cannan - This series is light on the yuri but heavy on the suspense, action, and amazing character designs. The terrorist plot is exciting and the final train fight featured in the series is one of the greatest action spectacles in anime that somehow manages to remain grounded.

OG:

-Harukana Receive: Best all-female sports anime ever made. Plus the gayness is not subtle at all.

-Mikagura Gakuen Kumikyoku: Eruna Ichinomiya is an underrated yuri icon. While not the first of her kind (That honor, I think, goes to Galaxy Fraulein Yuna) she set the standard of cool and inspirational badass lesbian protagonists who are proud of who they are and...also happen to be super perverts. Eruna made it cool to be such a protagonist. It is nice seeing a lesbian lead who does not care what anyone else thinks. She is hungry for cute girl booties. While she often loses her control in the presence of pure beauty she, as an inspiration for others like her, has enough self-control to not go overboard (most of the time).

-Symphogear: Symphogear is love, Symphogear is life. Hopefully Season 5 will keep up the good work.

-Rinne no Lagrange: My favorite mecha anime and the reason I embrace OT3s when the signs are there. Not the greatest but man was it fun. Plus Madoka Kyouno is still sexy.

-Yuki Yuna wa Yuusha de Aru: My favorite Moepocalypse anime of all time. Yuna X Togo taught me to love and trust some people outside my closest family again.

-Mouretsu Pirates: If someone were to ask me “Hey OG. What to you is the perfect anime?”. I would tell them Mouretsu/Bodacious Space Pirates.

-Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl. Thanks to the first fan commenting and reminding me of it. Definitely worthy of a spot. #HazumuWasAlwaysFemale

Final Thoughts:

OG: Pretty good list and close to what mine would look like were I to make one. Reason I have yet to do so is because I do not feel confident enough to pick a favorite yuri anime of all time. Favorite yuri manga and couples? That I can do, but anime always seems to give me a hard time choosing my absolute favorites. Like I said though, a potential yuri list of mine would look something like this. I also found it interesting how similar the Top 10 are among both our respective fanbases and visitors to the poll conducted by the Akiba Research Institute.

YuriMother: I may have done most the complaining and left the praise to OG but I actually and really happy with this list. I think that every title presented is a worthy addition and while I would certainly move some higher or lower than their current placing I do not believe that these are too far off from my own opinions, which is surprising for a popularity poll. More than anything I am thrilled to see that works I dislike that I thought to be popular did not make this list. Perhaps I should have more faith in people and their opinions. Everyone did such a wonderful job voting and I am so grateful!

Thank you so much everyone for reading and for voting in the top yuri anime poll. To see the full results of the poll and to support yuri news, reviews, and content, check out the YuriMother Patreon. Happy Pride Month

#yuri #lgbt #lgbtq #lgbtq+#pride #pride month #queer #gay #anime #cartoon #tv #lesbian #lesbians #girls love #wlw #gl #poll #manga

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fullofbeautifulmistakes03 · 4 years ago

Text

Okay let me put some points out there. As you guys know English is not my first language so sorry any mistake.

I'm going to start by talking about how Jodie Comer was TT last night because she's supposed to be dating a Trump supporter.

I'm not afraid of losing "followers" so I'm going to say what I really think: Jodie Comer is first of all, a human being, an excellent and talented actress, with many capacities and nuances that I had not seen in this generation for a long time, not only for her amazing performance of Villanelle but for everything she has done throughout her career, so unless you have seen each and every one of her projects and have not a shred of taste for good talent, interpretation and delivery, don't come here to judge this woman's talent based on her personal decisions.

JodieComerOverParty honestly, what the fuck is that? That weak, senseless and hateful "cancel culture" under which nothing but haters and repressed people who do nothing but put their hatred and issues in the lives of others, has to get out of your heads. Can you think that you have to be really screwed up inside to sit down and do that creepy quest for someone's intimate life just to satisfy your own hatred, resentment and problems? And worst of all, this generation is being so powerful but so weak at the same time, so easy to influence; they literally see any TT and they just decide to join, for what? to look cool? Bc is it what you supposed to do if you have more than 3K followers? Or is it because you really want to speak and give an opinion that is not influenced by what people say but by what you really think? Because honestly I see nothing like that. Some Twitter, Ig and Tumblr stans are not only sheep that follow a shepherd without any purpose, but they defend something without any other purpose than to hate and keep their followers.

Do I have to give my opinion about Jodie dating a Trump supporter? No. Am I giving it? Yes. Because it's my fucking problem but I also understand that it's not my fucking problem what kind of dick is she sucking. Who she's dating doesn't give me any right to get into her private life, her family, and look for shit just because you reflect your fucking hatred on her.

Like, do you feel hurt because you think she has been a hypocrite for saying that she is an ally of the LGBTQ + community, supported BLM and read the letter to Virginia? But also dating a trump supporter?

Well, you have every right, you feel cheated and betrayed, I understand it, being a trump supporter represents everything that goes against our community and minorities and you are also assuming that by dating him and knowing his ideals and beliefs she accepts and adopts them which is not necessarily true but i understand. So, yes, I understand that you do not see congruence between her actions and the people with whom she has around her, especially her supposed boyfriend, I understand that she has a social responsibility when interpreting a character so dear to different communities, I understand that the fact that Jodie having a boyfriend who is Trump supporter can mean different and valid things for many of us, I understand that you feel somehow hurt, I can understand all that and I'm nobody to tell you that you should not feel it or that you're wrong or you're okay.

But what is definitely not right and I cannot understand is believing that you have the right to decide what is right and what is wrong in someone else's life. What is not right is that you feel you have the right to believe yourself with so much moral superiority as to point out to a person that point 1. You don't know and that point 2. You don't know. What is not right is that you support hate and suicide messages towards a person who point 3. You don't know. And that even if you knew and everything will prove true, you also have no right.

You have the right to give your opinion and your opinion has the right to be respected but your opinion does not have to be the opinion of your followers or your friends or your family, so the next time you decide to do a thread and a crap search think about what would happen if someone decides to do the same to you. I mean, they didn't find anything about Jodie so they went to get shit from the people around her. SICK.

Do I support the fact that she is dating a Trump supporter? No. It does that matter? Let's be honest, no, it doesn't matter, because at the end of the day I don't have to reflect or set my own expectations in someone else's life, especially in the life of someone I don't know. Do I support trump? No man, I hate the guy. But that doesn't give me the right to send hate and suicide messages to Jodie just because her boyfriend is trash. I love Jodie, but I do not idealize her, I know that she is a human being, I know and I hope that she knows of her privileges, I am aware of that, I know that she is an extraordinary actress, I know that I want to see her in many many more projects, I know that she deserves all the awards in the world, but I know that at the end of the day, Jodie is not only a talented actress but there are many things that neither you nor I know and that is why you cannot idealize your fav, that's all I know about Jodie.

You can't impose your expectations and create a weight of that size in them because simply at the end of the day when they make the first mistake, you, the one who loved her from the beginning for idealizing her and believing that she was perfect, are the first person to cancel her. So, if you are going to support someone because of their talent, do it, if you are going to follow their career, do it, if you are going to create an account in honor of that person, do it, but do it knowing that you are not following some perfect God or person, do it with the knowledge that your dreams are not their dreams, that your ideals are not that person's, that your expectations are not and do not have to be that person's but above all do it because despite the fact that at some point your fav disappoint you or make a mistake, you will be there to continue supporting them regardless of the man or woman they decided to be with. That is what a true fan does. Supporting the person's talent and work, a fan has the right to judge a misinterpretation, to say you don't like it, to say anything about any movie or tv show, but being that fan doesn't give you the right to invade someone's life in such a way that, that person feels shit to the point of committing suicide as it happened earlier this year or as it happened with Taylor Swift some years ago that she had to hide for more than a year for all the shit that those who called themselves fans threw her.

I would also like to say that Sandra Oh, she is an excellent actress, her talent is simply incredible and she deserves all the awards in the world, all the recognition in the world, and throughout Killing Eve, I have only been able to see how some insist on putting Sandra and Jodie against each other, despite seeing that they have a genuine and beautiful working relationship, I have been able to see how the "fans" of Jodie judge Sandra and those of Sandra Judge and blame Jodie for many things, my big question is, Why? The injustice that the television industry commits against minorities today is not Jodie's fault, in this case. It is not Jodie's fault that the writers of Killing Eve are white, it is not Jodie's fault that according to you Jodie has more screen time than Sandra, it is not Jodie's fault that some of you have so much hatred in your soul that they reflect it not only damaging a beautiful production but also to your fav.

Sandra is a powerful woman, not afraid to speak, she literally co-produced the series to precisely have a voice, Sandra is a woman in every sense of the word, which means she is strong, free, powerful and she can speak for herself, one thing I'm sure of is that Sandra Oh, she deserves everything good in this world except those toxic "fans" who believe that a woman like Sandra needs to be defended or to speak for her.

Sandra Oh, she knows what she deserves and how well she has said it, she is at the stage of her career where she can decide which project to take or not, basically she can do whatever the hell she wants. Sandra Oh, she does not need a handful of children to believe that they have the right to decide or say "this is what Sandra wants, this is what Sandra needs" Sandra Oh, she does not need you to defend her from anything because she has a voice that knows how to use and does not necessarily have to be as you all expect. So the next time you feel like you have the right to say "this is what Sandra wants or needs" take a second to review your frustrations, to review your expectations and stop putting them on the shoulders of your idols.

Finally, know that Villanelle is not real, she is a character played by this extraordinary actress named Jodie Comer. Know that Jodie Comer is not Villanelle and know that Jodie Comer has every right to be straight and play queer characters, she has the right not to be what you in her fantasy world expect her to be. I say this because I have seen how the anger of some is not even that she is dating a Trump Supporter but that she is dating a man and not a woman. Like, put your shit together.

I love Jodie, I support her career, her talent I hope to see her in many other productions.

I support Jodie, I support her because I judge her by her talent and not by her clothes, makeup, hair or boyfriend.

I support Jodie because I doubt that her commitment to her work, so far, is fake. I support her not because is my idol, because I do not idealize her, I support her because I admire her talent and I enjoy her work. I have nothing to say about her private life, each one makes her own karma, it is Jodie's problem if she goes out with a Trump or Bolsonaro supporter, Jodie's problem is the footprint she leaves on the road, it's Jodie's problem if she date a man or a woman, it's Jodie's problem if she lives in Boston or London, it's Jodie's problem her fucking ass. It is her problem, not my problem. Jodie owes me nothing, absolutely nothing. And I'm not so influential as to let this change my opinion about an actress who so far has given me nothing but her talent, I am not so influential as to take advantage of this situation and throw the repressed hatred at someone for some personal issues.

To those who take advantage of the situation to say what they really think of Jodie, go ahead, do it, have the ovaries to hold what you say but then go. To the weak stan who immediately changed their photo or their bio, look in the mirror, you are a fake, have the ovaries to hold what you said and go as well please.

The day I see that Jodie Comer is really a fake, that day I take her out of my life myself, but not based on the twisted mind of some sick person who decided that it is time to hate or cancel the amazing Jodie Comer.

#killing eve #villanelle #villaneve #sandra oh #jodie comer #stan twitter

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