#like he's jgy's sworn brother. he should have

[winepresswrath]

What chengyao need to be perfectly happy is a shared enemy they can direct their ''trying to work out childhood and personal issues by subliminating it into child rearing'' energy towards. They are so itching for chance to play overly concerned parents whose kid got hurt.

why couldn't literally anyone else* have kidnapped jin ling and sent him up zombie mountain we could have had it aaaallll. unless they got into a fight about how to do sieges. but i really think they could have gotten their shit together for the joint stomp down.

* Wei Wuxian excluded because Jiang Cheng cannot focus on other people when he's in a Wei Wuxian spiral and Jin Guangyao would be unable to resist publicly implying it was Jiang Cheng's fault for not finishing the job properly. This is not the way to Jin Ling's happiness.

[lansplaining]

LXC is so despicable he would continue to love JGY even if JGY murdered LWJ. He’s such a wet blanket & weak-ass pushover it’s impossible to respect him.

you know what, anon. you're right. LXC is freakin' sect leader, and he should have acted like it. his brother brings an exiled sex pest who turns out to be a known heretic and murderer into Cloud Recesses? turn that freak back at the gate!!

said masked weirdo starts getting pushy about the Lans' secret library, and about LXC's sworn brother? shut that shit down! he and JGY are sect leaders, every sect leader has secrets. the Nie have an entire secret man-eating tomb, and LXC's not allowed to have a secret library, or JGY a secret treasure room? come on. he should have stood up for himself and told WWX and LWJ to back the hell off.

literally if LXC had just been a little more willing to throw his weight around and act according to his status instead of letting LWJ and WWX walk all over him, the entire back half of the plot wouldn't have had to happen, and everything would have been fine. JGY would have had to time to figure out who sent the threatening letter, NHS would have been dealt with (speaking of weak-ass guys who don't act like sect leaders, jeez), and the jianghu would have continued to prosper instead of being plunged into leaderless chaos.

[thebiscuiteternal]

I would like to know... if you died and woke up as JGY in Koi Tower, how long would it take you to kill JGS and how would you do it, knowing what you do of canon?

HA.

It would take me exactly as long as necessary to set up a good alibi and method.

If he is still alive, Nie Mingjue is my best possible alibi. Everyone knows our relationship is currently precarious, and that he has called me out before. Therefore, if I am at his side, conducting his treatment (properly, as even if I don't particularly feel bad about killing him, knowing that it will ultimately gain me nothing and create an enemy in Huaisang means I also have no particular desire to finish the job), at the time my father mysteriously drops dead, there will be much less suspicion thrown my way.

As for the method, while I would like it to be particularly painful, that would draw too much attention and, potentially, healers. It has to be quiet, no matter how much less satisfactory that would be. I am very well-versed in conventional poisons -especially slow-acting, hard to detect, and still dangerous to mid-level cultivator ones- thanks to my... educational stay with the Wen Sect. Furthermore, while I know my father employs test-tasters (as he has used me for that role more than once), I also know exactly in which settings and with which food or drink he does not bother, and also exactly how drunk he has to be before he stops bothering in settings he usually would be more careful.

So!

To sum up: Several carefully-timed instances of spiked food and drink during his carousing over the course of a few months, while making sure to play the diligent and put-upon son son and sworn brother should be enough, culminating in his death of overindulgence while I am far away in the presence of someone who wouldn't hesitate to denounce me if he thought me involved in any fashion.

[touchlikethesun]

i understand why netflix doesn't bother translating all of the titles, honorifics and naming conventions for the untamed, because it probably would be pretty opaque to most audiences anyways. but that choice leads to so much loss of nuance and honestly it can be misleading or just a straight up mistranslation. luckily i've picked up most of the honorifics, so when the subtitles have lxc saying "Yao, you are sworn allies, you should call him clan leader Nie," but i hear the word da-ge, i know that he's actually saying jgy should call him "brother." clan leader and brother are two very different terms with very different connotations. and i feel like they've made a choice that changes the characters relationship when they really should not have. what's the harm in including the honorifics in pinyin??? just let people look up the terminology for themselves, that would be better than consistently mistranslating very important indicators of the nature of characters' relationships to each other

[evilhasnever]

who do you think is the initiator when it comes to intimate moments in the context of xiyao/3zun? I'm not a big fan of the 'all lans are only pretending to be pure and reserved, and are quite perverted on the inside' trope, but it seems to be the case for at least one lan. and lxc appears to be the most eager one to pursue reconciliation between his sworn brothers, which may indicate him taking the lead in other aspects

Hey anon! first, allow me a disclaimer: I enjoy platonic 3zun content, but I don’t ship it in any romantic/sexual way, so I’ve got nothing for you there. (In fact, I get a bit peeved when my gen 3zun art is tagged with shippy comments… but it is what it is. This is unrelated to your ask, sorry!)

Anyway, let me talk about xiyao, since that is my jam! I think saying Xichen’s support of the sworn brotherhood somehow informs his tendencies in the bedroom… is a bit of a leap. I’m with you on the “not all Lans have to be closet freaks”, but I definitely think they’re all repressed. I remember when in an interview Liu Haikuan said (paraphrased): “LXC is just as passionate as Wangji, but had to repress it even more because he was the sect heir”… ain’t that the truth! Poor Xichen. I don’t think his own inner freak would manifest in the exact same ways as LWJ though. If he is a freak, he’d be suave about it. ;) 

Honestly, I’m a fan of subby service top LXC, so I like to think he’d be waiting for JGY to ask something of him rather than taking unwanted initiative, you know? (Just imagine him vibrating while waiting for A-Yao to give him A SIGN. Oh, A-Yao, breach that divide because LXC wouldn’t dare to presume…! He will take the lead if A-yao wishes him to!)

BUT! JGY is also repressed for entirely different reasons (shame, trauma, etc.) so it’d be hard for him to want to initiate things, and thus xiyao were probably sexually frustrated for years. The UST is out of control. That’s why their gazing scenes should come with an adult warning.

[haunted-radishes]

It's a topic I've mentioned a few times before, but I want to do a proper explanation of why I think Nie Mingjue would not approve of the things Nie Huaisang did in pursuit of revenge.

First, let's lay out what I think NMJ values very highly

Honesty. He believes that you should be forthright about your goals, never hiding behind deceit.

Selflessness/self sacrifice. If you're going to endanger someone to achieve your ends, it had better be yourself. To offload all the danger onto someone else is selfish cowardice of the highest order.

Duty. Pretty self explanatory

Justice. His ideas of who counts as guilty can be pretty broad, but at the end of the day, he wants to punish wrongdoers and protect the innocent.

Now, what did Huaisang's vengeance look like?

It was deceitful and secretive. He relied on lies to carry it out, and even after all was done, he wouldn't admit his hand in it. In the end, he even tricked LXC into killing his sworn brother.

He was careful to keep himself out of the line of fire. Instead, he lead others into danger to get everyone where he wanted them, luring the juniors into Yi city, deliberately provoking JGY into trying to get rid of as many threats as possible, and putting the responsibility of the dangerous investigation in the hands of LWJ and WWX. All while he stayed on his throne, directing from the background.

He neglected his responsibilities as sect leader to pursue revenge, maybe even deliberately letting the sect fall into disarray to minimize suspicion.

While he did have one specific target who had done wrong, his plan relied on the suffering, endangerment, and even death of people who had absolutely nothing to do with the wrongdoing. MXY commiting suicide. The arm being released on the Mo family. Luring the juniors to Yi city. Revealing the truth about Qin Su's relationship with JGY in the worst possible way to both her and the entire jianghu.

Nie Mingjue would be disgusted. But would Nie Huaisang even care?

[sillygoofyqueer]

New chapter of losing hope has been out for a bit but unfortunately danganronpa dragged me back into that hell for a little while!

But now I am back to rant abt the recent chapter! Anyone miss me? :D

Tbh I thought there’d be more angst on “Wwx riding a sword for the first time since probably when he was thrown in the burial mounds” but tbh he has bigger issues rn probably and a whole LWJ distracting him so I’d see why it doesn’t come to mind. Him challenging LWJ to go faster was adorable tho. And we all KNOW LWJ is dying of cuteness overload internally.

Interesting that you touched on WWX’s weird relationships with resentful/evil beings. I like that it gives the implication that because so many awful things happened to him resentful/evil beings became attracted to him and that it’s only increased over time.

Wwx feeling confined and like he’s going to be thrown into some cell is nothing new but heartbreaking nonetheless. Good thing LWJ is here to confuse the shit out of our man by going against basically everything the Lan Clan stands for :3 especially with that dizi!!

I do love how you portray WWX especially when he knows he can and probably should be vulnerable with the man that has done nothing but help him all this time but he can’t bring himself to because of how that has been used against him in the past. So real.

Wangxian getting caught making out is so incredibly in character and on brand of them it hurts. Jfc. Can’t wait to see what Xichen thinks of all this as soon as LQR stops having an aneurysm. On one hand, ship has sailed! On the other, sworn brother kidnapped and tortured a man + his allies for 13 years and actively killed other sworn brother. Ouch.

LQR’s reaction is amazing tho. I mean, Imagine getting so incredibly traumatized that even someone who hates your fucking guys and has since you were 15, feels bad for you. Jesus. I do love seeing that LWJ knows exactly what WWX is panicking over tho. So sweet! Tho seriously. I know LQR was just told what happened but I can’t wait to see his face when he realizes all the implications of it. Including what will happen to his family.

As always, fuck JGY, and thank you for writing this blessed story Four! Always a joy to read your writing and I hope you don’t mind the late response. I wish I could give you more kudos and remember to take breaks and take care of yourself <333

Now off to read three blades!

HELLLOOOOO! I hope your visit to Danganronpa was interesting and fun and intriguing, welcome back to u s .

Okay, so, I was thinking about having more angst with him riding a sword for the first time, but he's been a little distracted - also, he's the kinda guy who will just not think about everything wrong with him when there's more fun things he can focus on. What's the point in holding onto that shit when he's wrapped up in warm arms and is actually flying? And yes, Lan Wangji is, in fact, dying.

I'm so going to elaborate on his connection with resentful energy more! It's going to be a bit of a key little thing, I've been thinking about it so so much. He's got such a funky sort of relationship with them, he's like a magnet n shit for all of that. His trauma could increase that, especially when linked with his use of the dastardly stuffs.

Lan Wangji casually destroying any previous negative ideas that Wei Wuxian has about him - he thinks Lan Wangji hates him? Bro protects him and doesn't hand him in to the Jin immediately. He thinks Lan Wangji thinks he's weak and pathetic? Dude comforts and takes care of him. He thinks Lan Wangji finds him disgusting because of his use of demonic cultivation? Man gives the grandmaster of demonic cultivator a dizi in case he needs to protect himself. Lan Wangji is going to make Wei Wuxian feel as safe and comfortable in the Cloud Recesses even if he has to break the precepts to do it - it's all worth it for him.

On a similar note, Wei Wuxian feeling confined and trapped? It'll be rare for him not to after that mess of thirteen years he has just been put through. Like, who would willingly traumatise that poor bastard? *Hides bloodied hands* Wh-Who would do that to him? He's going to be incredibly traumatised from it all for a while, and hey, who knows? Maybe it'll get worse- WHO SAID THAT. WHO'S DROPPING LORE IN MY ANSWER.

Anywhosles, of course Wei Wuxian is conflicted about being vulnerable with anyone! Last time he was even remotely vulnerable, he was literally shoved in a room and tortured for thirteen years. Anyone would be unable to trust people after that, even if those people have been nothing but kind and helpful even when they didn't need to be. Wei Wuxian wanted to feel safe, and he doesn't feel safe when being vulnerable anymore, even if it may look like he's all chill and fine with it.

Listen, I need you to be fully aware that them making out wasn't supposed to happen. I was writing them to have this big emotional moment, and next thing I know my brain's like "and now they kiss" like little kids with dolls, so of course I was thrown off and like "NOW WHAT?!??" and then I remembered that Lan Qiren was supposed to stumble upon Wei Wuxian in the Jingshi so I was like "yeah, that's right, that would happen" and made it happen.

I'm not going to say when, but Lan Xichen WILL find out (obviously) and when he does it will be utter chaos in his mind. Maybe we'll even get it from his perspective! He'll be awkwardly standing there, listening to all the proof and being like "....oh. Well. At least that went well..." And then just violently breaking down. (This isn't fully what's going to happen, but it will also happen).

Lan Qiren is just done with his nephew's bullshit. Also, keep in mind that he probably didn't even SUSPECT this because Lan Wangji never saved Wei Wuxian after the Nightless City Massacre!!! This is a Huge ass surprise for the fucker. He's... he'll have to deal with this one way or another, and maybe he's learned from his reactions to Qingheng-Jun. Let's see.

As always, you're my beloved and we WILL be married in Spring. It's not yours to decide lmao. I will keep taking breaks for you xoxoxoxo (/p)

[ohsweetflips]

i’m not brave enough to say it on twt but i’ll say it here: i feel some type of way abt how lxc’s seclusion is almost always centered 100% around grief and not abt how for all intents and purposes he is questioning everything he ever knew. like his grief for jgy (and nmj if we wanna split hairs) are huge parts of it But i feel like it’s a disservice to lxc’s character to leave the other parts out. like he grieves killing jgy but he was also preparing to die And Also was essentially just told that he clearly never cared abt jgy and now has debts to jgy that he will never be able to pay. i think lxc’s seclusion should be more than just grief but also questioning, uncertainty, anger, and the hollowness that comes with having to question decades of your life.

a part of him died in guanyin temple and he must reconcile with the fact that it’s never coming back. he will never walk the world the same.

it’s also just technically. not correct. to say that lxc ended the novel thinking jgy did nothing wrong when in fact he has every right to question everything he knew abt his sworn brother. the tragedy comes from the fact that 1) he killed jgy for the one thing jgy didn’t do and 2) he will never receive answers to any of his questions. some of his final lines from the novel were “what did he want?” for a reason. i think it’s crunchy for him to have to reconcile the jgy he knew with the jgy he met in guanyin temple and frankly i think it’s interesting to see if he reaches the conclusion of “both can exist at once” or “one eclipses the other.” i say this as someone who loves jgy dearly if u come onto this post saying everything jgy did and said in gyt was a ruse and he is actually the poor innocent defenseless victim of mean bully wx im biting ur ankles

[cuckoo-among-beasts]

what's your thoughts on jgy?

anon || random ask

I'm going to assume this ask for me, the mun, and not Huaisang, since I believe we're all pretty aware of what he thinks of JGY xD

What do I think about JGY? That's a complex, but also not complex, question. First of all, I do like the character, he is definitely well made and I love how he has done a lot of good stuff. The reason behind why he did the good things, I'm going to leave up to each person to decide. I personally think that some was due to genuine care and some was to further his position. However, this does not excuse the bad things he did. I'm not going to list those since I assume that you, the reader and/or anon, already knows this as well, but I especially dislike the innocent people he sent to their death (which includes the prostitutes involved in his father's death).

I know what some of you might say now, that Huaisang too killed innocents, but I personally disagree about that. MXY was probably an innocent, but Huaisang did not force his hand. How much he influenced him is unknown, but in the end, he didn't force his hand. Was it wrong of him to influence him? Probably, all depending on to what level he did so. And then there's Yi City, which I don't think Huaisang can be viewed as guilty for, that was XY.

Though, I do also think that pretty much as bad as killing innocents is killing "family" and that was what JGY did by playing Turmoil for NMJ. Should NMJ have kicked him down the stairs? No. But by then he wasn't really himself anymore either and tbh I wanted to slap JGY then too with the shit that came out of his mouth. Hurting in disguise of helping like that, like JGY did with NMJ, that is one of the worst things you can do imo. I'm very much about loyalty and that act was very disloyal, even if he also, in a way, were filial by doing so. Which is also something I find important, but I do draw my line for loyalty (to friends and family) when it comes to hurting others for personal or familial gain.

Do I understand JGY's reasoning and motivation behind his actions? Yes, I think so. The way he had been treated by many was wrong, very much so, but that still doesn't excuse murder.

Oh and while I'm at it, he said he never planned or had hurt LXC, I disagree. Why? Because he used a Lan technique to kill NMJ. He used something LXC had taught him, twisted it by changing a part (also found with the Lans) to kill their sworn brother. He used a gift to do an action he knew LXC would be against and I see that as hurting someone too (just like NHS made LXC stab JGY, even if that didn't technically kill him, at least not in the novels, I've heard it's different in CQL).

Did all of this made JGY deserve to get killed? No, but I'm also against death penalties and murder of any kind. I do think he deserved to be locked away for the rest of his life. Though, what I wish the most is that he didn't have to have gone to such lengths. That JGY had told his sworn brothers about what JGS wanted him to do, even if that would've caused a war.

[xiyao-feels]

One of the things that drives me nuts about the 'their name means the same thing' thing, for nie//yao, is that—

even assuming it's meaningfully true, which is really not obvious to me—

But taking for granted that it's meaningfully true, what a stupid damn thing to hang a shipping analysis on.

Like, first, these kinds of details can be meaningful but their meaning must be analyzed through context! Do I think the description of the gentians with "their petals adorned dew like stars" in the Lotus Seed Pod extra is meaningful in a xiyao context? Yes—but only because of the relationship between LXC and JGY which is actually established elsewhere in the text. I don't start thinking Xi//cheng must be real because the gentians are purple! These kinds of details can be fun but they're not in themselves arguments, in the way "nie//yao have names that mean the same thing!" often seems to be treated. If WWX and LWJ and Lan An and his wife and Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan all had names that meant the same thing, then you'd absolutely have a case for understanding this as evidence that the relationship was romantic or at least should be interpreted against those relationships. But of course that's not the case! And relatedly—

Secondly, if I were going to interpret this as meaningful, which again I am not convinced of.... I think the natural point of reference isn't romantic at all, but instead a pair of brothers famously known as the Twin Jades. Which I do actually think is an interesting and meaningful lens for NMJ&JGY's relationship! I've spoken about this before so I won't go into depth here but if you look at, for example, NMJ agreeing to the sworn brotherhood because it will give him "the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang" (ER trans ch 49, emphasis mine) followed immediately by the flower banquet which is the one scene where LXC and JGY are present but don't interact on the page but where the brother-pairs LXC&LWJ and WWX&JC are quite significant, and where NHS is of course not present; I might throw in LXC talking about going to help LWJ during the teacups scene during Sunshot, when MY was serving NMJ, though of course that would have to be examined in more detail in a proper analysis; and just in general consider the ways in which LXC and LWJ's relationship seems the best and most functional fraternal relationship we see, and the ways in which NMJ comparatively fails as a brother against that model for both NHS and JGY—

In any case, I do think that's an interesting lens through which to examine NMJ & JGY's relationship! And if I were going to interpret NMJ and JGY's names as meaning anything, I'd interpret it as pointing, narratively, to that parallel and contrast. But you'll notice that the argument from the actual scenes they're in is the important part; the names might highlight it or draw our attention to it but they cannot substitute for an argument. I would never say, "why do you ship nie//yao? Their names both mean jade and they're sworn brothers so obviously they're paralleling the Twin Jades, so it can't be romantic!" Because that would be a ridiculous argument.

[llycaons]

ep49 (1/3): a shocking numbers of fans watched this scene where jgy cried a lot and fully swallowed his excuses. guys. guys.

oh wwx is annoyed as hell that jgy is dodging responsibility for everything he's done when he, wwx, never once denied his actions and bore the full weight of them and then some

more evidence for my 'jgy actively encourages lxc's crush even though he has no intention of ever reciprocating because it grants him power over him' hc!!!!!

oh jeex lxc looks like shit. I mean I guess he's had a rough couple of days. look at those eyes bags

lxc: I'm not your sworn brother anymore. jgy (realizing he's losing his grip on lxc): NOOOOO 😭😭😭😭😭

okay to be fair I'm sure there is some genuine grief for losing the friendship and camaraderie of the one person who has always vouched for him, saved his life, supported him, etc. lxc was a wonderful friend and a powerful, steadfast ally. wasted on jgy!

you can practically see the forehead vein popping here. I don't think an lxc who fully understands jgy would ever love him. if xiyao is happening in some fic, either jgy is lying or someone's being mischaracterized. not that social factors didn't play a role in the things jgy did, but if you ignore his sadistic and vengeful nature, his willingness to murder innocent people, his unrepentant manipulation and deceptive nature, you're losing a lot of his character. for him to be someone who doesn't hurt others, he'd have to be someone guaranteed safety and respect and a position from birth. but that's so antithetical to his role in canon it wouldn't be the same person anyway

huh. why hasn't jgy tried to harras lwj more? I guess he got what he wanted and beyond lwj sealing himself, there's not much a reaction jgy can provoke

WELL. pretty clear choices here. jgy you could have packed up and fled the country before trying to kill a bunch of people and kidnapping children

lxc: why were you so cruel and murderous??? dude?? jgy: I HAD NO CHOICE BRO 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 you believe me right??? would it help if I did this 😭😭😭😭

compared to wwx's impassioned, rational, fair defenses of himself and the people he was trying to protect, this is so pathetic. wwx never denied what he did, never dodged responsibility. when he said he had no other choices, it was in defense of innocent people at risk of political persecution and mass murder, not in defense of killing people to maintain his own position, he apologized for the death of jxz and suffered his own death in retribution for even the best things he did

YOU COULD HAVE LEFT!!!! or idk, face up to the consequences of your actions

I am so so sorry to bring the marvel 'cinematic' universe into our beautiful liveblog today but this shot just screamed "Tony, you CHOSE to do that' to me

of course he ~nobly~ doesn't deny it ONCE IT'S ALREADY COME TO LIGHT. but he denied up until the breaking point because he's a slippery eel and it's impossible to get him to face any consequences for his actions!!! if I was lxc I would be exasperated to death too

NEAT FRAMING

ohhh this flashback is so skin-crawling. I really love how deathly pale the robes and jgy's face are. the red of the wedding robes and the decorations are so ominous and omnipresent, like something horrifying about to happen, like something inescapable. the music really adds to the eeriness of the scene

it always hurt so bad that qs was so excited for her wedding night. she was happy! she liked jgy a lot and always respected him and his mother! she was a good and kind and innocent person and she had no IDEA god I feel sick I hate him so much

jgy really never spared a single thought to qs's well-being. it was all about him, and his horror, and his choices, and his position, and the injustices enacted on him. self-centered to the very end. of course he didn't think he had a choice. he would never choose against his own self-interest no matter how many people he hurt. god, qin su should have lived. her suicide was such bullshit

oh my god SUCH bullshit. 'uwu but I worked so hard!' okay yeah I get it's a precarious political situation and the issue isn't even your fault but DUDE. you're placing your own power and ambition higher in importance than this woman's entire life. and you MUST have known you would have murdered any child you two had.

pretty sucky situation all around. shocking idea though. YOU COULD HAVE TOLD QIN SU

jgy truly goes through life as if it was a me-or-them battle for survival in every single situation. in his mind, whoever bore the burden here would be the one destroyed, and he never would choose his own destruction. and it does make sense based on his environment and upbringing. god, he's such a good villain. none of this at all excuses his actions ofc, but it's an extremely compelling and powerful motivator for a villain hell-bent on surviving, viewing every situation as battle to the death, and fully buying into being viewed as the victim of every scenario

another contrast to wwx! wwx hates being seen as someone who was hurt. he dislikes being viewed as weak or vulnerable in any way by his enemies (and often his allies), and the way he wins battle and arguments is though either his power or his own honesty. for someone who omits key information and lowkey manipulates many of his loved ones, his straightforward arguments are more often than not the complete truth

in case we needed a reminder of his active sadism at work. who gaf about his dad but those poor women were treated as murder weapons and then mass murdered themselves

oh I do not like this slap scene, and I'm glad lxc is horrified by it as well. the exposure of jgy's crimes has never retroactively justified the classism and oppression he fought against, nor does it grant permission to his social superiors to treat him like they're inherently better than him, such as with this slap

[lansplaining]

Been struck by the idea that right after NMJ dies NHS picks up a cursed fan in his grief that turns out to have the spirit of Shen Jiu in it. SJ starts being like his evil advisor and helps him design his plan to destroy JGY. After all, who else can relate to an older brother with a cursed sword being killed because of the actions of his gutter snake sworn brother. Add in the delicious irony of how much LXC resembles YQY and you get spirit SJ also trying to in his own twisted way save LXC from the same thing by making him drop JGY like he feels like YQY should have himself.

oh ho ho

oh ho ho ho ho ho ho

anon......... your mind...............

I have nothing to add, this is flawless.

[jaimebluesq]

For sangchengsu: Do A and B have a stronger bond with each other? Or do C and B or C and A have a stronger bond? Or are A, B, and C close together [equally]? Also, who proposes?

Yay! Thank you for the ask and giving me the opportunity to indulge in some SangChengSu headcanons :D Mine are all canon universe where they get together to take JGY down (I love you JGY but you killed Da-ge).

As for bonds, I don't think any one bond is stronger than the others, but they are all *different*. JC & NHS have the "we were school friends before the world went to shit and they're one of the only people left alive who remembers how I was when I didn't have the weight of the world on my shoulders" thing. JC & QS are linked by Jin Ling and their love and co-parenting of him. And QS and NHS have a bond through their love of JGY and torn feelings about someone they loved being the instrument of a loved one's demise - and even after JGY is dead, they commiserate on how they hate that they still love him after everything because the feelings don't go away, and nobody else really understands that.

As for proposing, etc, here is my post-JGY's death scenario. QS becomes regent of Lanling Jin while Jin Ling grows up, NHS remains Nie-zongzhu but begins to tire of it, and JC is where he belongs in Lotus Pier. When he comes of age and sworn in as sect leader, Jin Ling will be the one to look at his aunt and say "so when will you and Jiujiu get married?" because he knows at the very least about their affection for one another (don't know whether he'd know about the poly things with NHS). Marriage had never really been in any of their conversations before because their lives were in three separate places, but with Jin Ling now as sect leader and his position strong, QS now has the luxury to do something else with her life. It prompts her and JC to have a talk and they find they're not opposed to the idea - in fact it starts to grow on them - but they don't make a proper decision until they talk to NHS. NHS is thrilled for them, of course, and is enthusiastic every step of the way - but there are moments when JC or QS see a shadow over his expression, but when asked about it, NHS waves off their concern and kisses them to distract them.

So after QS is married to JC, and since she's not regent any longer, she has more free time, and she decides to regularly share time between Lotus Pier and the Unclean Realm. She begins to see how being sect leader wears on NHS more and more, and one night she catches him at a vulnerable moment, and he admits his heart isn't in it, but it's the only thing he has left of his brother and the only home he's ever known, so what else could he do or be? She plants the idea in his ear of at least finding an heir to take over for him one day - at the very least, someone needs to be next in line in case of an assassin or a disastrous night hunt or food poisoning. Then she returns home to JC and tells him about everything.

So JC shows up in Qinghe, follows NHS to his room, and when the door closes, NHS assumes he's there for some 'private time' and tries to kiss him. JC holds him back and then starts a long, long tirade about how he's worrying JC Qin Su by not taking care of himself, and why is he so miserable, etc etc. They get into a huge fight that an unknowing person might think would come to blows, but they've fought like this before and it never has. In the end NHS breaks down and says something about this being him paying his dues because he should have known something was up, he shouldn't have trusted JGY or allowed him to play for Da-ge without NHS knowing more about it and if only he'd known something, done something, then his brother would still be alive. JC calls him an idiot and holds him long past when he stops crying. Before he leaves from the visit, JC tells NHs he's enough, he'll always be enough, and that if he ever decides to make a change, there will always be a place for him in Lotus Pier.

So NHS thinks about it, and as the days pass he finds he looks out the window more and more with his eyes looking to the south, and then he just hits a moment where he just can't do it anymore. He quietly gets his replacement ready and talks to the elders and makes all the arrangements, and just as quietly they make the official change of leadership. NHS packs his things and takes one copy of the official announcement of the new sect leader - that will not be sent out for a week - and flies down to Lotus Pier. JC and QS are overjoyed to see him, thinking he's just there for a visit, and when the three of them are alone, he takes out the announcement and gives it to them. They look up in shock once the weight of what they've read hits them, and NHS asks if that place for him in Lotus Pier is still available, because it seems he no longer has a sect to run. And the three of them hug and cry and laugh in turn.

NHS eventually takes on the 'official' title of advisor to Jiang-zongzhu, and only those close to any of them know that the three of them share a bed and a life together(though they each have their own rooms because sometimes you just need your own space, or have a bad night and want to sleep alone). Eventually QS has a child, and then another, and none of them know who was the official 'father' but none of them care because they love them to bits. And JC's stress goes down by leaps and bounds with not one but 2 people dedicated to making sure he delegates responsibilities and relaxes from time to time - because it IS the job of two people lol.

So, um, yeah, I may have a thought or two on the subject >.<

[adhdo5]

I'm not sure why Lan Xichen should specifically trust the Yiling Patriarch? While he does clearly recognize that there's more to the story than Wei Wuxian's reputation, she is very much the world's most famous evil necromancer who has been dead for over a decade

Like who Lan Xichen trusted here is his sworn brother of twenty years with an extremely dedicated public service career that Lan Xichen has been present for the whole of! A career that people absolutely have been trying to undermine and smear for all sorts of reasons, a lot of which came back to classism! He says as much in his conversation with Wangxian – Wangji is asking Xichen to believe the anti-JGY allegations on the grounds of "my sketchy boyfriend saw it and I trust her" and Xichen is going "well. My sketchy boyfriend did not see it and I trust him so unless you provide evidence I think we're at an impasse"

And frankly WWX is a WAY sketchier boyfriend than JGY is, as far as LXC's knowledge goes! The fact that he's not dismissing them out of hand and kicking the YLLZ out of his house is something LXC only does by virtue of the same trust that causes him to ask for more evidence than "Wei Wuxian's word" before turning on Jin Guangyao – Lan Xichen is wiser than to listen to baseless he-said she-said callouts especially about people who are, like JGY and WWX, particularly vulnerable to such nonsense

I said in OP tags I have a decent amount of criticisms of Lan Xichen he is absolutely a flawed character but tbh I don't think this was a miscalculation on his part! This is not the part of his relationship with Jin Guangyao in general nor even of his excuses for Jin Guangyao that is a problem idt – I agree that his hope that JGY and NMJ could fix things was, but I think laying it at the feet of him being too trusting of people is a mistake, especially in a reading a story that is about love being more important than what society thinks is right!

Lan Xichen is not a himbo he's just a better person than you are

[untamedmetablogiguess]

Thinking about how Lan Xichen tells WWX that Wangji’s complicated feelings for him are mirrored by how he felt regarding their mother, but doesn’t seem to realize that his own feelings for JGY are equally shaped and mirrored by his feelings regarding their mother!

Like, he looks at his brother and sees that stubborn, unyielding love and is like ‘ah yes i recognize this’ but he cannot see in himself that his lack of desire to know the details of his mother’s crime are exactly like his reluctance to look at JGY’s actions with any real scrutiny.

because lwj has had to grapple with “what if the person you love did something unforgivable?” and made his choice, but xichen has been studiously avoiding thinking about that question at all for his entire life.  lan xichen wants to give everyone the benefit of the doubt!  he wants to believe the best of everybody!  and sometimes that means deliberately not asking the questions he really should ask, because if he did he’d have to hear the answers!

he knows his mother Did a Murder.  If he asks why, and finds out her reason, then he has to decide, is that a good enough reason?  And if it wasn’t, if the reason was just, like, he annoyed her and she lost her temper, then he has to deal with reconciling his memory of his sweet, kind, loving mother with the knowledge that she did something morally reprehensible and completely unjustified.  but if it was a good reason, if for example the teacher had attempted to assault her and she was defending herself?  well, then she’s vindicated but the rest of his clan is implicated.  now he has to deal with the knowledge that her punishment was absolutely unjust and that all her suffering (and his, and his father’s, and his brother’s) was a terrible injustice perpetrated by his family!  now he’ll have to look at his clan’s elders, who he is supposed to respect, and know that they did something inexcusable to a woman who didn’t deserve it!

by not asking the question, he maintains a state of shroedinger’s-cat-like paradoxical neutrality - he can assume the best of both his mother and his clan.

Likewise, he has carefully maintained a neutral state regarding his sworn brothers, trying to make peace between them and assume only the best of each of them, because if he looks too closely, then either NMJ is right, and JGY is a bad and untrustworthy person, or JGY is right, and NMJ is being cruel and unjust.  as long as he doesn’t actually look directly at the conflict, he can continue to pretend it is just a troublesome personality clash instead of a fundamental and irreconcilable difference of worldview in which he might have to make some kind of moral judgement call!

[littlesmartart]

@ebonykain said: I'm very curious what Meng Shi's opinions on her son's sworn brothers are

oh man, Meng Shi and Xichen were MADE to be mother and son-in-law. Xichen thinks Meng Shi is wonderful not only because she's the beloved mother of a man he loves, but also because they have a bunch of interests in common! the two of them spend ages happily bonding over literature and poetry and painting and music. also, Xichen has a lot of internalised guilt and grief about his own mother that he's never really gotten to process at ALL, and has literally ZERO other older women in his life, so hanging out with Meng Shi is very precious and theraputic for him. eventually, he does open up to her about what happened with his mother, and the compassion with which Meng Shi handles the story of a woman who was treated like a disgusting criminal who should be forgotten by the whole Lan sect means a great deal to him.

(the rest under the cut)

Meng Shi adores Xichen from the very start for no other reason that he seems to genuinely and earnestly respect her??? sometimes his attempts to talk about her profession are a little clumsy, but it's clear that he legitimately does not look down on her for it. once she gets to know him and sees how much he loves her son - when JGY tells her about the kindness Xichen treated him with even before they got together, and when she sees how persistently and devotedly Xichen cares for JGY - it's impossible for her not to not give her wholehearted approval. for her, their shared interests are just the icing on the cake.

things with Mingjue are a little more complicated - JGY certainly did not tell her all of the details of their No Good Very Bad breakup, so what she knows is that things were, uhhhhhhh not great for a long while, but they did their best to be civil for the sake of Xichen and A-Fu, and by the time Mingjue winds up meeting Meng Shi, he and JGY are reconciled. Mingjue feels oddly anxious about meeting her, given that he knows Xichen met her when they were hiding in the brothel and the two of them bonded over their love of the arts, so there's part of him that is worried he will come across as just a Big Uncouth Fighty Man in comparison :( but! he grew up with two mamas, and there are many older aunties in the Nie sect, so I feel like he does have a certain level of practice when it comes to interacting with older women. he genuinely respects Meng Shi for how well she raised JGY, and doesn't really have any personal issues with her profession, and there are many things about Meng Shi that low-key remind Mingjue of Huaisang's mum, which means once they're more comfortable with each other, Mingjue very much feels at home having his cheeks pinched and hands patted and being bossed around by a tiny older lady :)

on the flip side, Meng Shi finds Mingjue's awkward earnestness and quiet respect very charming! whilst Mingjue has a formidable reputation, and she knows he broke her son's heart many years ago, you don't get as famous as her in her profession without being exceptionally good at reading people, and it doesn't take her long to realise that Mingjue has a big heart under the famous temper and all those muscles. he is nothing but very polite and kind with her, and in the time that she sees them together, it is clear to her that whatever their history was, now that they are reconciled, Mingjue adores her son. they don't bond in the same way she and Xichen do, but Meng Shi is deeply fond of Mingjue all the same.