#legacies 4x07

[forbescaroline]

235 FAVORITE SHIPS OF ALL TIME (ranked by my followers) 112. hope mikaelson and josie saltzman - legacies

[handonhaven]

#done with the nonsense

[hizzieheadquarters]

[imminent-danger-came]

Crying and shaking knowing that an MK V Sun Wukong fight is in the cards for us

[uncleasad]

From a conversation last week with TheDarkestHour13, wherein I muse about the Travelers’ creepy blood fountain and its misuse in Legacies: 

So we know from TVD that the Travelers’ creepy blood fountain was what created the anti-magic dome around Mystic Falls (powered by all the magic from the cemetery, IIRC, because I believe Kai went there to siphon all the magic and pull the dome down). And we know that the right-wing militia (sorry, Citizens Protection Squad, or something) used the anti-magic dome to kill vampires by chaining them in their creepy van and driving into town. And that it reverted Tyler from a hybrid to a completely untriggered werewolf when he passed through (thanks to someone saving him from, IIRC, drowning, or however he died to become a vampire). We also know that it turned Alaric from an Original back into a measly human, once Jo saved him from bleeding out. See where I’m going with this?

So when Veronica and Burke(?) and the rest of the Triad thugs invaded the School in S1, she knew from being on the Parents Council or something that Alaric had the Travelers’ creepy blood fountain stashed in the basement, and she turned it on before they invaded. How did it not kill all the vampires and un-transition all the werewolves (including Hope) at the School? You know, eliminate ⅓ of the student body? Conversely, how was Kai able to siphon the magic powering the dome inside the dome back in TVD? All it seemed to do in Legacies was neutralize any supernatural powers (vamp speed, werewolf strength and healing, witches’ magic, etc). Does the creepy fountain have different settings, like a phaser? And Veronica set it to stun? (Still, even if it had settings, how irresponsible was it of Alaric to keep it around if it was capable on one of those settings of killing ⅓ of the student body upon activation!?)

And…if it could turn Alaric from an Original back into a human, does that mean that if the original Originals had come to Mystic Falls during the Travelers’ dominion, would they have all reverted to humans-at-the-point-of-death-however-Esther-killed-them, white oak be damned? (Or was there something different about how Esther turned Alaric?) And so, if Alaric had this thing in the basement, couldn’t they have used it on Hope once she turned her humanity off? And since Freya killed her with magic, stripping away the magic of vampirism would have left her dead by magic, which would also have been stripped away, leaving us with a live, full-humanity, if very unhappy, teen witch? (Granted, Alaric was in a coma at that point, but, again, Veronica clearly knew how to use it, at least partly, so their plan to distract Hope with Salvatore Idol could have been, not (just) to give Josie time to get ready, but to give Veronica time to get there and turn the thing on….)

This macguffin is like swiss cheese, and I am driving buses through those holes!

[goodwhump-temp]

Ezra Bridger Whump | Star Wars Rebels

"Wait! Who's roger?" - The Great Jabba

1x02 Spark of Rebellion Pt.2 - Captured/imprisoned, abandoned, punched 1x03 Droids in Distress - Freaked out 1x05 Rise of the Old Masters - Annoyed, falls from the ghost, angry/neglected, thrown 1x08 Empire Day - Depressed/heartbroken 1x09 Gathering Forces - Emotional, scared/angry, passes out, carried/comforted 1x10 Path of the Jedi - Terrified, knocked down, manipulated, witnesses horrible deaths, angry 1x12 Vision of Hope - Blacks out, manipulated, scared 1x14 Rebel Resolve - Worried 1x15 Fire Across the Galaxy - Pushed, hit by lightsaber, falls, unconscious ---------------------------

2x01 Siege of Lothal Pt.1 - Crashlanding 2x02 Siege of Lothal Pt.2 - Pinned, heartbroken (Tarkin Town) 2x05 Always Two There Are - Pinned, captured 2x06 Brothers of the Broken Horn - Frustrated, restrained, pushed 2x09 Stealth Strike - Captured/imprisoned, frustrated, nearly falls, fingers smushed (Chopper) 2x10 The Future of The Force - Scared, knocked back, 2x11 Legacy - Vision, frustrated/desperate, crying 2x12 Princess on Lothal - Heartbroken, knocked out, dragged 2x14 Legends of Lasat - Briefly unconscious 2x15 The Call - Knocked down, suffocating, weak 2x16 Homecoming - Shocked unconscious 2x21 Twilight of the Apprentice Pt.1 - Falls x3, manipulated 2x22 Twilight of the Apprentice Pt.2 - Manipulated, almost falls, knocked back, knocked down ---------------------------

3x01 Steps Into Shadow Pt.1 - Confronted, emotionally abandoned, angry 3x02 Steps Into Shadow Pt.2 - Scared, reprimanded 3x03 Holocrons of Fate - Scared, angry, manipulated, knocked unconscious, unconscious, headache 3x04 Antilles Extraction - Anxious 3x05 Hera's Heroes - Shocked unconscious, carried 3x06 Last Battle - Shocked unconscious 3x07 Imperial Supercommandos - Shocked unconscious, captured 3x09 Wynkahthu Job - Fall (caught) 3x11 Visions and Voices - Schizophrenic, jumpscared x3, knocked unconscious, confused panic, manipulated 3x16 Legacy of Mandalore - Betrayed, worried 3x17 Through Imperial Eyes - "Captured" 3x19 Double Agent Droid - Airlock opened 3x20 Twin Suns - Extreme exhaustion, worried, scared, hallucinating, collapses unconscious ---------------------------

4x01 Heroes of Mandalore Pt.1 - Unhinged jetpack flying the whole episode, almost falls from cliff/sacrifice 4x02 Heroes of Mandalore Pt.2 - Clumsy, helmet shocked (17:35), pain 4x03 In the Name of the Rebellion Pt.1 - Frustrated 4x04 In the Name of the Rebellion Pt.2 - Shocked unconscious, restrained 4x05 The Occupation - Heartbroken (Lothal) 4x06 Flight of the Defender - Clumsy, 'hallucinating', crash landing, hunted 4x07 Kindred - Tackled, manhandled, hunted 4x08 Crawler Commandeers - Manhandled 4x11 Dume - Grieving, comforted, guilt, freaked out, lost, eerily interrogated 4x13 A World Between Worlds - Briefly unconscious x2, guilt/heartbroken, knocked down, collapses, held, exhausted 4x15/16 Family Reunion & Farewell - Shot, sacrifice

forced myself to make this better than my (now deleted) og post

[sneakyboymerlin]

I have one silly goofy rule: if you vague me, I won’t always be as transparent in return… especially when you call me a bitch. I also enjoy literary and media analysis as a hobby (there’s a reason it’s my best subject lol), so I don’t exactly mind a chance to talk on it.

Gwen’s boobs visible below the cut.

Breaking: Tumblr user “Arthur The People’s Princess,” who calls Arthur a “tsundere,”’calls ME a bitch and accuses ppl who think Merlin is not a villain of “babygirlifying” him 😭😭😭 very “do as I say, not as I do.” liiiike at LEAST say it on anon 💀💀💀

But this is even funnier because… the show’s main tactic to make Arthur appear superior was by only ever contrasting him to people far worse than he is (e.g. Uther or the villagers in 5x03). But they had a second tactic, where they would “make a character ooc so their fave would seem better.” For example, the 4x03 deleted scene btwn him and Gwen (thank god they deleted it), the format and characterization in 5x01-5x03, etc. It is quite clear that they set up conversations to tell-don’t-show how grand Arthur is, even though he is surrounded by people who have the exact same standards and more. He is coddled by the narrative as a form of overcompensation for his flaws and dormant character progression. This is also influenced by his status as a rich nobleman (prince, then king) wherein a servant like Gwen believing that commoners are just as worthy as nobles means nothing, yet a king believing in this somehow makes him uniquely worthy. Credit and reward is unevenly distributed.

This “babygirlifying” of Arthur (calling him a tsundere and princess) is a pretty obvious attempt to dismiss his serious faults (the bigotry that leads him to act tyrannical towards magical peoples, continuing his father’s genocidal legacy). Because white cishet women are typically viewed as weak and harmless, comparing or associating a character with “womanly�� traits/tropes can be used to give the impression of harmlessness or innocence. This is, of course, misogynistic, among other uses.

The slight against Gwaine is also very interesting, because it tends to be the type of merthur shipper that the op is, not the people who pay attention to Gwaine, who reduce him down to “clown manwhore.” But more on that later.

The show is centered on Arthur’s need to progress from a stuck-up bigot into the king who will fulfill the prophecies, bringing peace back to the five kingdoms and returning magic to the land… so why is it so difficult to understand why people might pay attention to Arthur fulfillment of (or lack thereof) the story’s structural promise? Other people possessing flaws does not negate Arthur’s flaws, which had a wide impact due to his excess of power, wealth, and reputation.

Gwaine being tentative towards magic, Morgana indulging in tyranny, and Merlin’s questionable navigation of prophecy do not in any way rescind Arthur’s central flaws. He is the one who continued to ban magic, despite Gaius making Dragoon’s innocence clear in 4x07, despite accepting the Dolma’s aid in 5x09, despite the unicorn incident in 1x11, right after a sorcerer saved his life in 1x10. And still, after a sorcerer saved his life in 1x04. After he recognized how many Druids had been slaughtered for their association with magic. These are events he knew about but chose to ignore to stay in his comfort zone (idolizing Uther and justifying his own privileges).

Also, the fact that op can only approach this topic through a merthur lens (the comments about Arthur and Gwaine both imply merthur) is more telling than any analysis I could write. Merlin and Gwaine do not exist only in relation to Arthur. We’re not the ones reducing him down to “clown manwhore,” because unlike op, we don’t see his character or connections as trivial by comparison. I know I for one have written multiple analyses on Gwaine’s characterization, traumas, and beliefs — flaws and all — because I believe there is more to him than many surface-level readings ascribe. Try looking in a mirror next time you say it.

Toodles 🛳️

[princeescaluswords]

Hello. I'm the Anon who asked the question about the hunters and their competency. I never thought of it that way, and I really like your take on these kind of things. So here's another one for you; what did the Hale's actually do for Beacon hills?

It may have been a narrative oversight in the background. However, within the story we are told of all these great things that Talia and the Hale's that came before her did for beacon hills. Yet by the time Derek shows up there is no one present to help him. Going off the lost Prince narrative, a take I've heard you talk about before when it came to him, usually there are still people around who are willing to help. Yet the individuals we are introduced to that knew his mom and the legacy she had have either turned to the dark side or said we're sitting this mess out.

In a debatably unfair comparison to Scott, during his departure all of his allies that stayed behind still continue to fight the good fight even 15 years later (according to the movie). So the question becomes what inspiration did Talia and\or the Hale family actually have on anybody if no one was still around willing to continue her mission? Or should we go off Deaton's word that her death was so impactful that everyone lost hope to explain the absence?

Textually, we can only draw evidence from four episodes: Visionary (3x08), Riddled (3x18), 117 (4x02), and Orphaned (4x06). While previous episodes had shown the wealth and the history of the Hale family, only these four (please correct me if I'm wrong) touch upon the relationship between the Hales and Beacon Hills. We know that werewolf packs would come to seek Talia Hale's guidance and that she had significant status, which could explain (along with the Nemeton) why there were so many werewolf packs present in Beacon County. We know that the Talia Hale saw protecting Beacon Hills as a duty of her family. We know that they undertook public service works, such as funding (and influencing) the construction of the high school. The clearest statement comes from the Benefactor's cassette-tape introduction.

Voice: Eventually settling in a small town in Northern California, this family used their wealth to rebuild the community around them while remaining isolated from it.

So, part of your answer was that while the Hales were involved in building and protecting Beacon Hills, they did so surreptitiously. Thus, it's not outrageous for Derek to not have any contacts or allies among the civil authorities. But what about the supernatural community? While Derek, Peter, and Cora did not know who Deaton was (though Peter figured it out quickly), there was Satomi. Derek remembered her in Weaponized (4x07). Why didn't he seek her out when Laura was murdered?

The answer is clear, and it's why Derek was an antagonist in Season 1 (and a villain in Season 2). Because of Paige and Kate, he didn't trust anyone. There's a reason he didn't go to the police for help with his sister's murder and instead buried her in his burned-down family mansion's side yard. There's a reason he chose to use Scott as bait rather than wait until Scott threatened to go to the police at the end of Pack Mentality (1x03). It's a fanon creation that he was only trying to help Scott, because you can't help someone you don't trust. This distrust in others (and in himself) lies at the root at everything he did wrong until he allowed himself to trust in Scott, the pack, and Braeden, which enabled him to duplicate his mother's power in Smoke & Mirrors (4x12). Derek didn't go to Satomi (or any other ally of his mother) because of distrust and shame, and so he hurt himself.

It's one of the reasons that the Lost Prince trope doesn't apply to Teen Wolf, and thus it became a source of frustration to fandom. Derek's story wasn't reclaiming his family's legacies, it was evolving into the best person he could be by letting go of the past. This was epitomized by his transfiguration at the end of the movie.

I'm not quite following the argument of your last paragraph, because one of your premises isn't true, and one of them is questionable. All of Scott's allies didn't remain in Beacon Hills. Stiles, Liam, Deaton, Lydia, and Jackson live and work elsewhere. It can be assumed that Isaac, Marin, Cora, Theo, Hayden and Corey are elsewhere as well if they are still Scott's allies. Derek, Peter, and Malia live in Beacon Hills, as do his mother, Parrish, and the Sheriff. None of them acted as if this were strange. The idea that a pack must live together in the same house is mostly a fanon invention. After all, Mrs. Finch was alpha of the Primal Pack and yet had rejected their ways. ("It's my pack, too.")

Which leads me to question your second premise, "still fighting the good fight." Against whom? There's no indication that the lives of the people of Beacon Hills are in danger 13 years after Monroe fled. Eli certainly acts like a normal teenager, not a child who grew up in a war zone. There's not the slightest whiff of resentment from the pack members who are in Beacon Hills about the pack members who aren't in it. This tracks, and to be frank, Teen Wolf makes a whole hell of a lot more sense if Scott McCall's teenage years are seen as anomalous in the lives of average werewolves. They weren't meant to be seen as failwolves because they weren't supposed to be superheroes. The idea of pack as a paramilitary unit always on guard against territorial intrusion or evil threats is a fanon invention with little backing in canon.

I hope this answers your question.

[milkwithginseng]

Thoughts on FAM 4X07

I always love it in The Simpsons when they have scenes that are being filmed and we cut to them watching it back so having that with Aleida on the Eagle News, fantastic bit of world building, having to turn it off when she starts cussing, perfection.

As if there was any doubt after last episode but I think Coral Peña is this show's secret weapon and as Aleida is the character we start the series with, it'd be wonderful to have her be the one it ends with, old age makeup and all.

Also we get the Baldwin family spaghetti scene, always a classic.

I really wish we got to spend more time with Sam, I think she's a really great character and really compelling as a union leader, and nothing says Ed Baldwin like just brazenly talking over a woman but it's an unfortunate trend of the legacy characters taking oxygen from the newer ones.

Ed and Dev really are competing for who can be the biggest shit on Mars but that needle drop, an asteroid heist? You crazy sons of bitches, I'm in.

[uncleasad]

[Image ID: a pair of GIFs from Hope and Josie‘s confrontation in Legacies 4x07. In the first GIF, No-Humanity Hope says, “You’re just never gonna stop trying to reach me, are you?” In the second GIF, Josie answers, “You never gave up on me. So, no. I’m not gonna give up on you.“ /end ID]

[rhcenyra]

HOPE’S COWBOY OUTFIT APPRECIATION

[landonmikaelson]

LEGACIES 4.03 | 4.07

[isagrimorie]

When the twins think they were on the same page, and it turned out they had different agendas.

TLDR:

[imminent-danger-came]

SWK being so flawed is like one of LMK's strongest bits. I feel like a different show would just have him be infallible or have him be like a twist villain or irredeemable or something. But he's neither of those, he's just incredibly flawed. It's also interesting that even though Mei and Pigsy are critical of him, they're still shown to care about him.

All in all, hes a more complicated character than people give him credit for :/

I 100% agree!

Honestly, if Sun Wukong wasn't flawed I'd find him a bit boring. You remove his flaws and you remove the meat of his character. Even all the way back in season 1 you get the feeling he's withholding information and concealing his past ("Show me the real Sun Wukong! The old you would have leveled this whole mountain range to stop me!"), and that only becomes more and more prevalent as the show goes on.

Wukong is first introduced as a hero, as the King who defended the world from DBK. Next he's introduced as a mentor, planning to make MK his successor (which I think is pretty debatable at this point, as I've said I personally think he just needed an excuse to train MK).

Slowly we learn SWK is pretty terrible at both of those things. He's not the hero or mentor anyone thought he would be—he's not even the mentor he thought he would be:

Macaque: “Haha, you saw a story about a hero who got handed everything, who didn’t have to work for anything, and you thought you were the other guy? The second the hero got real power, he couldn’t care less about his friends.” [ - ] "You know, I meant what I said—you really are a good kid. A good kid, with a really terrible teacher." (2x07 Shadow Play)

-

Pigsy: "Back from what? Your vacation? No- what could have been SO important you'd leave MK alone to face that- that thing! You're supposed to be his mentor!" (2x10 This is the End!)

-

Sun Wukong: "I know I can never make it up to you. Honestly I- I never thought I'd live as long as I have let alone be someone's mentor—turns out I'm not very good at it. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm sorry MK, for all of it." (3x14 Destiny Fulfilled)

-

(he's staring sadly at a bowl of soup, never a good sign.)

s1 of Monkie Kid, as well as the Revenge of the Spider Queen special, establish a baseline. We meet Wukong as we're meant to know him—the legendary yet cheeky hero. Now that he's retired, Monkey King is training the next generation to protect the world and be the heroes in his place.

Right?

Well, just like our perception of Wukong, our perception of the role of the hero slowly degrades as well:

Lady Bone Demon: “Heroes? Please, you’re mere agents of chaos, the very thing I aspire to eradicate in this new world. No more destruction, no more disorder, I WILL HAVE PERFECTION.” (3x12 The Corrupted King)

-

Curse MK: "We’re just like Wukong. A fraud! A trickster! Destructive! Why would our legacy be any different? Actually, no no- the chaos and destruction we’ll bring upon the world will make Wukong’s past look like nothing." (4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

-

MK: "That can't be true! Monkey King's a hero he wouldn't just—" Azure Lion: "You saw it with your own eyes! His betrayal, his brutality—he took the only friends I had from me." (4x08 The Brotherhood)

-

Heroes aren't people fighting for the side of good, or even for what they think is right—they're agents of chaos. Destructive. "All doomed to play a role in tearing this world apart." Heroes are introduced as one thing, and then slowly revealed to be another.

Heroes, just like Wukong and anyone else, are flawed. They still make wrong choices. They still hurt people. Of course Wukong isn't a twist villain or irredeemable, because ultimately he IS a hero with plenty of the positive traits that come with that. But heroes are also flawed, and this is something I think is at the core of Lego Monkie Kid.

You can love someone, and that someone can do plenty of good, but that doesn't mean they're not broken, or that they aren't capable of causing suffering. This isn't something that only applies to Wukong either—pick any character and I'm sure you could apply this to them.

Now, all this to say that Wukong's two fatal flaws are his lack of communication and his self-sacrificial tendencies. Like Azure Lion says—he has a habit of keeping people at arms length, and more often than not doing that to protect them. These tendencies lead to his downfall.

So! Let's make some lists of where we see these flaws in the show.

Wukong's lack of Communication:

"Look, I'm going to come clean—um, I've been kind of watching you."

Leaving MK and lying to him during s2 (this includes lying about both going on vacation AND that LBD had returned)

Keeping his plan to stop LBD a secret during s3

"Where I got my staff!" "Got or took, right? You took it?"

Not telling the gang about the 4th ring

Other lies I'm sure have yet to be revealed (such as the truth about MK's origins, if that's the direction the plot's going)

Him and Macaque's past

Wukong's Self-sacrificial tendencies:

Leaving during s2 to find a way to stop LBD on his own

"What!? You're not going I'm going!" "Yeah so, here's the problem, you guys have this thing called mortality, so-"

Gravely injuring himself to get the samadhi fire Map

Blocking the brunt of the samadhi fire to protect MK in 3x10

Originally planning to put the Samadhi Fire in himself

Going off to fight the Lady Bone Demon alone

Protecting MK from the curse in 4x01

(and this post here that travels into theory territory)

Now, most, if not all, of these decisions lead to something bad happening. It's very in line with MK's words in 4x08:

MK: It doesn’t matter if I want to help people or not! Everything I do just- it just makes things worse!”

Wukong, even if he has a very questionable way of going about it, is truly motivated by protecting the people he cares about. However, these choices also hurt those same people. Not to reference samadhi fire Mei another time, but this is EXACTLY what she points out:

Mei: "We trusted you! All of us! How could you lead us into the fight without a real plan? Time and time again I've watched you put MK in danger leaving him to figure out EVERYTHING on his own. Don't you realize you're hurting the people who care about you the most?" (3x10 The Samadhi Fire)

But that's the point, isn't it? Even with all these flaws and after all these mistakes, Wukong still tries (he's very much like Mei in that regard):

Sun Wukong: “Point is, mistakes happen, but so long as you leave the world in better shape than you found it, then it’s all good. Right?” (4x01 Familiar Tales)

-

Sun Wukong: “We can’t change who we were yesterday or in a past life, or a hundred life times ago! We live with the choices we’ve made, for what matter is the choices we make RIGHT NOW! Only we decide who we are and what we do with the power we have.” (4x07 Pitiful Creatures)

-

This is who Wukong is. He's not a hero or a mentor, but he's someone who cares (and maybe that's what a hero is). That's the tragedy of his character, really. That's the tragedy of both him and MK. They're people doing the best with what they have, but still failing anyways.

"Nice hero speech bud, but I know better—deep in your hearts, you don't believe a word of that."

-

But people still love you anyways.

[infiniteetcetera]

Time to expose myself now that’s she’s here (called it by the way): I simp HARD for Aurora and have since the originals so I simply will not be holding her accountable for any of her actions on Legacies. She murders anyone? She caught them slipping. Creates problems? Good for her. This is now an Aurora defense account

[bittersweetremains]

Danielle Rose Russell as Hope Mikaelson on Legacies season 4 episode 7