#laodice

[blue-lotus333]

Guessing who’s who

The Greek Heroes Drawing Lots for the Captives they made in Troy. 1808. Paul Duqueylar French 1771-1845. oil/canvas.     http://hadrian6.tumblr.com

[literallyjusttoa]

I started a project where I redraw all of my Trojan royal family designs, but I spent too long on it and now I just wanna restart the whole thing. But! I didn't want to throw away the ones I have finished, so here's the first nine, with a promise that soon I will have all 21 redone for y'all's viewing pleasure.

[mt-isnothere12]

i didnt add the more normalized names like helen, penelope, kassandra, or hektor

i didnt add most children of priam bc well…yk why

achean ver

[katerinaaqu]

You mentioned this in a post reply that made me remember I meant to ask (as always, just point me if you have already spoken about this): opinion on Agamemnon and Clytemnestra's daughtes?

In the Iliad I seem to remember three daughters are mentioned, Iphianassa, Laodice and Chrysothemis, while in the plays they are usually Iphigenia, Electra and Chrysothemis (bless her unchanging name).

Do you identify Iphianassa as Iphigenia and Laodice as Electra? Or do you prefer them being all different people?

So often female names (not only here) are conflated, recording people probably didn't care enough about them to be precise about it :(

I think mentioning Iphianassa in the Iliad (in the context of being offered in marriage to Achilles) suggests that in that early tradition the sacrifice of one of Agamemnon's daughter had not been added to the canon, both because Iphianassa could be the same of Iphigenia and thus still alive and because offering a daughter in marriage to Achilles after the last time he was 'bethroted' to one ended up being a sham would be tactless to say the least (and Achilles is just so sensitive about honor and pride).

Plus there is that Iliad line listing the throne passing from Atreus to Thyestes to Aga without mentioning the horrors™️, which with Iphianassa being alive could mean at that point of the traditions Agamemnon was just a commander and not the last scion of an extremely cursed royal line.

...unless Homer is alluding stuff that the audience is already supposed to know and offering another daughter to Achilles was meant to make up for that whole fiasco (unmentioned in the Iliad)?

The notes on my Iliad say that the 'embassy to Achilles' chapter may even be a slightly later addition (like possibly the night raid chapter) since later part of the story proceeds like it didn't happen, so this all is speculative squared ahah

Yes I have had a talk with @emmikay in fact on one of my posts about contradicting sources and you can see my reply here:

But the subject is always fascinating!!!!

As I mention to that reply of mine, it is hard to tell whether we speak for example on Iphianassa as the same person as Iphigenia or if it is a different daughter that kinda got lost as a version in the centuries and eventually the two names were used interchangeably for the same person. It is also possible, as I mentioned to that reply of mine, that Agamemnon is insinuating the substitution of his daughter with a fawn as a homeric tradition thus if "Iphianassa" and "Iphigenia" are one and the same person then Agamemnon insinuates a "happy ending" to the tragedy of Iphigenia and her sacrifice (as I mentioned to my reply and that Agamemnon Analysis, the essence of Agamemnon lashing out to Calchas seems to be indicating that Aulis incident is a homeric tradition given how Agamemnon doesn't fully elaborate as to why Calchas "never had a good prediction for him" as opposed to the idea of later on suggesting the marriage of Achilles to "Iphianassa"

Iphianassa seems to be simply an old variation of the name "Iphigenia" given how similar the names are (as opposed to "Laodice" for example) and both seem to be insinuating her noble birth as "Iphi" stands for "strong" (Another character in mythology that has it is for example Heracles's brother Iphicles) and "anassa" means "queen" while "genia" implies "bloodline" so she is named either "Strong Queen" or "Of strong Bloodline". Either way the names seem to be similar so it does seem at times that it is a variant of the same name, although the actual possibility of that being the name of another daughter of Agamemnon seems to be on the table I would lean more towards the first idea, that it is a variation or alternative (one can even blame the metric system in Homer that required the syllables of the name to fit his metric poem) given the lack of sources indicating otherwise.

Frazer for instance supports the idea that Homer didn't know the sacrifice tradition yet or doesn't quote it (explaining the existence of the betrothal with Iphianassa in the Iliad) or that the name Electra was unknown to him but I disagree with the first mainly because of the passage that as I said Agamemnon claims in distress that Calchas always has a bad prophecy for him. It is the second part that I am mostly intrigued by. As to whether Laodice and Electra are the same person or if they are two different traditions. Given how "Laodice" translates roughly as "people's judgement" seems pretty royal name to give. Whilst "Electra" simply means "Amber" or "Of amber color"

I am actually taking a leap here but I feel like Laodice was the name given to her at birth but "Electra" was a nickname given to her because of the color of her eyes or hair or both, pretty similar how Neoptolemus is nicknamed such ("new warrior" or "new conqueror") by Phoenix. In my brain it creates a fine parallel between Achilles and Agamemnon through their children, how their children have a different name by birth and got known later on by another. Of course I have no actual proof on this but it also seems to me like a parallel with Electra's tragedy as well given how Electra brings "justice" or "judgement" upon Clytemnestra later on.

Actually...no offense but I kinda am not fond of this interpretation dunno why, when we always say "they didn't care for female characters thus the names change" because honestly I think it is unfair. We have unchanging or relatively steady names of main female characters in mythology (Helen, Clytemnestra, Penelope, Chrysothemis etc) while others change depending on tradition, local names or history etc. With the same logic why aren't we promoting more that mythology "hates men" when out of the 108 suitors of Penelope only around 20 are named in the Odyssey and out of the 600 men of Odysseus only a handful are named or why aren't we speaking on "erasure of humanity" of characters that their name allegedly changed such as Lygiron being Achilles's original name or Alcides of Heracles etc. I understand of course where the idea and the interpretation comes from but honestly in a world of myths where women play a deuteragonistic role we often see names change indeed but so we do with men who are oftentimes not named at all when they play deuteragonistic role or their origins are misread or misinterpreted or confused or oftentimes is hard to tell who is who (Like Eurybates in Iliad and in Odyssey being unclear if he is the same person or different etc) Hehehe sorry parenthesis closed! back to the original point! -that is just me interpreting it by the way. It doesn't need to be more correct than the interpretation you give, it is just that it is my opinion in regards to the matter that we do not need to see "erasure of women" everywhere. Just that deuteragonists in a story often are indeed not steady or omitted unfortunately-

Anyways moving on; For the line of Atreus and Thyestes not implying the violence in the whole thing seems to me very similar to how the violence of the downfall of Tydeus is not touched in Homer. Tydeus's cannibalism which was the reson of his doom was never mentioned in Homer. If anything Tydeus is being praised throughout the poem and compared with his son. Similarly the way the line of succession between Agamemnon and Thyestes is not mentioned or touched upon can mean to me

It is not directly related to the story and potentially already known and spoken tradition that doesn't require much explaining

Creates character realism, given how the last thing Agamemnon or any of his peers would need would be to mention a story of betrayal and cannibalism before the army.

As you state later, Homer could easily be citing events that most of his readers and listeners already knew too well or were at least familiar with, so he didn't feel the need to elaborate further. The second is that it seems natural for the characters who aim for glory not to mention the least glorifying things of their past because the point would be for the heroes to be seen in battle as they are now and in one way the way that Iliad seems to be creating the pattern of "glorious men that try to reach and surpass the glory of their families" doesn't correspond with the monstrous details of their pasts. But also as I said their past or family lines are not directly linked to the story so they are not given much mention. For example the mention of the coup Hera made IS made mention in the Iliad because it was important for the pleading Thetis made to Zeus.

Of course the possibility any of these traditions not being part of Homeric story and lore or even not be invented till later on is always on the table but personally I like to think that a large number of these were rejected because the story didn't call for them and they had different focus.

Honestly if I had a dime every time we had a theory about this or that part of Homer being "later addition" or "being written by a different writer" came out I would be rich! Hahahaha jokes aside though even if it is valid critisism and a very valid point I kinda do not align with it. Maybe I am too biased with Homer or my own idea that Homer is one writer and that the poem seeming seamless to me but still I am not sure why would that prove the "later adition" thing. Many events in Homer do appear and then they are not mentioned again because they are not relevant to the next parts of the story. See for example the obvious strong bond created between Telemachus and Nestor's son Peisistratus which was mentioned thoroughly during the trip in Telemacheia and never was mentioned again Telemachus mentions his trip to Pylos but never mentions "I made a friend along the way" because it was not THAT strongly relevant to the story which was the purpose of Telemachus being on a cognitive trip to find information on his father. We also do not see much on Helen mentioning the horse ever again even if that seems to be critical to the story of Troy, it is not directly linked to the Odyssey or the messages it wanted to pass. The fight with Irus is not mentioned again in the Odyssey as if it never happened even if it was also another clear event that Odysseus proved his strength and was one of the first steps towards recognition with the suitors etc. The events that are directly mentioned on are usually the ones directly linked to the story (for example Polyphemus, Circe, Calypso etc or in Iliad the taking of Briseis, the wounding of certain heroes or the killing of others and the fear of the people related to them)

Certain events in the Iliad and the Odyssey are being mentioned before (see for example how Diomedes and Odysseus and Agamemnon are wounded in later rhapsodies after rhapsody 11 because their wounds are actually relevant to the story and the way it moves at that spot) as opposed to the one failed attempt to bring Achilles to battle at first. It doesn't seem to be offering any news to the story if Odysseus came out and said "here we are again to you Achilles" given how the reader and viewer already knows that we have an embassy or rather the attempt to give gifts to Achilles when Achilles lets go of his anger free of charge to Agamemnon.

But I agree it is all speculative given the lack of any other information apart from readings and speculations of other writers and scholiasts (ancient or contemporary) which is why the mystery behind the identity or lack of it of Homer is still on and open for discussion.

Hahahaha gosh this got massively long! Hahaha I am sorry! I would love to hear some of your thoughts onto mine! ^_^

[amostcuriousmythicist]

The Affair of Laodice (daughter of Priam) and Acamas (son of Theseus)

It was told of Laodice that, when Diomedes and Acamas came to ask for the restoration of Helen, she was seized with the strongest of desire to have to do with the latter, who was still in his first youth. For a time shame and modesty kept her back; but afterwards, overcome by the violence of her passion, she acquainted Philobia, the wife of Perseus, with the state of her affections, and implored her to come to her rescue before she perished utterly for love. Philobia was sorry for the girl’s plight, and asked Perseus to do what he could to help, suggesting that he should come to terms of hospitality and friendship with Acamas. He, both because he desired to be agreeable to his wife and because he pities Laodice, spared no pains to induce Acamas to come to Dardanus, where he was governor: and Laodice, still a virgin, also came, together with other Trojan women, as if to a festival. Perseus there made ready a most sumptuous banquet, and, when it was over, he put laodice to sleep by the side of Acamas, telling him that she as one of the royal concubines. Thus laodice accomplished her desire; and in due course of time a son, called Munitus, was born to Acamas by her. He was brought up by Aethra, and after the capture of Troy Acamas took him home with him; later he was killed by a bite of a snake while hunting in Olynthus in Thrace.

Parthenius of Nicaea, love Romances. 16

[dagondelrio]

Second poll for my book. I want to get a couple of points of views of multiple women on each side of the conflict.

[dc-megatournament]

DC Ladies Only Tournament

Round 1

Laodice's feats:

H-Dial

Jinx's feats:

Animation

Blast Power

Earth Manipulation

Fire Control

Illusion Casting

Magic

Precognition

Probability Manipulation

Psionic

Water Control

Wind Bursts

[erinoma9]

Moments from the Age of Bronze - The Story of the Trojan War Comics - #3 & #4

#4

[dilfaeneas]

Hecuba!!!! And Her first Babies!

[tototavros]

omg I finally figured out why the mithridatic wars weren't just some random jockeying between tiny Turkish kingdoms

you have laodice, daughter of mithridates v of pontus, who weds ariarthes of cappadocia, who then gets couped by nicomedes of bithynia and laodice marries him and nicomedes' son by another mother, nicomedes (of bithynia) becomes the enemy of the son of mithirdates v of pontus, mithridates vi (of pontus).

[theriverpointace]

realizing that priam having so many kids has given them attention issues. most, if not all of them, are motivated by some kind of need to be seen or heard.

alexandros - used to being an only kid, is spoiled with attention even after his joining the half-crowns due to being a novelty ... and he suffers for it! feels like he's always performing and/or that nobody gets him. super lonely, Just Wants A Friend.

deiphobos - used to being the overlooked kid. mama's boy all the way. also has daddy issues. wants to prove himself to priam, prove he's worthy of the respect hektor gets, or at least the special treatment/spoiling alexandros gets.

helenos - mostly happy to be left alone by his parents. eventually realizes he needs somebody to consider him outside of his duties as a prophet/strategist (idk yet) once in awhile, but he doesn't realize this consciously enough to actually ask for it. he goes into some kind of spiral that would be self-destructive if he were any braver. he defects to the achaians and cries himself to sleep.

kassandra - wishes people would just fucking listen to her, she's right, she's right, she's been proven right over and over, helenos'll tell you she's right but nobody sees him either so what even the fuck.

[kashilascorner]

I really should get back to writing that story about Helen and Hector because I was on absolute fire when writing the flashbacks to Hector and Andromache's wedding even if I have to say so myself

[simstrouble]

Laodice Hairstyle (2 Versions) by simstrouble

A long, shaggy, and wavy hairstyle with bangs. Softly inspired by our supreme mother, Stevie Nicks 💃🏼

Base Game Compatible

24 Swatches

All LODs, Hat Compatible, All Maps

Ombre Overlays Accessories found in Face Paint: 24 swatches + Color Wheel Enabled

Two versions are shown below 👇🏼

Download (Early Access, Download & Info). Public Release: April 24th. | Instagram | Pinterest

[that-greek-mythology-girl]

I'm very sensitive to minor characters in stories, I'm always mad when the author and readers treat them like random people who died or just another casualty, when no, those people had lives and dreams and hopes and I want to know them.

Like, in Epic, there's 600 Ithacans. We only know five. (Polites, Eurylochus, Elpenor, Perimedes and Odysseus himself.), in the Odyssey, we know of 3 others (Antiphus, Eurylus & Amphidamas.), they were 600, I WANT TO KNOW ALL OF THEM. I want to know if they were married, if they longed for their wives as much as Odysseus did, if they also had children they never met but wanted to, or sisters they wanted to see again, or mothers they longed to feel the embrace of. We only ever briefly know Eurylochus was married to Ctimene, but what else? And the trojan women? We know of the important ones, (Briseis, Andromache, Creusa, Hecuba, Laodice, Cassandra, Polyxena, etc..) but there must have been tons of women suffering there, who were they before the war? Did they have fathers, brothers, sons who died? Or were they enslaved with their mothers, sisters and daughters? Do they ever get to feel happy again? I hate in when a book goes: "The poets won't sing of this person" or "The Poets don't care about this person" LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER, I'M THE POET, I'LL SING, I CARE. LET ME EAT UP EVERY SINGLE STORY EVER. All to say I'm considering writting fanfics about either Odysseus' crewmen or the trojen women.

Would y'all read that?

[blueiscoool]

Painted Scylla Statues Found in Turkey

Excavations in ancient Laodicea have revealed a rare collection of painted Scylla statues.

Laodicea was an Ancient Greek city on the river Lycus, located in the present-day Denizli Province, Turkey.

The city was founded between 261-253 BC by Antiochus II Theos, king of the Seleucid Empire, in honour of his wife Laodice. Over the next century, Laodicea emerged as a major trading centre and was one of the most important commercial cities of Asia Minor.

After the Battle of Magnesia during the Roman–Seleucid War (192–188 BC), control of large parts of western Asia Minor, including Laodicea, was transferred to the Kingdom of Pergamon. However, the entire Kingdom of Pergamon would eventually be annexed by the expanding Roman Republic in 129 BC.

The many surviving buildings of Laodicea include the stadium, bathhouses, temples, a gymnasium, two theatres, and the bouleuterion (Senate House).

Recent excavations led by Prof. Dr. Celal Şimşek from Pamukkale University have revealed a rare collection of painted Scylla statues during restoration works of the stage building in the Western Theatre.

In Greek mythology, Scylla is a man-eating monster who lives on one side of a narrow strait, opposite her counterpart, the sea-swallowing monster Charybdis. The two sides of the strait are so close (within an arrow’s range), that sailors trying to avoid Charybdis’s whirlpools would dangerously come into range of Scylla.

Scylla is first mentioned in Homer’s Odyssey, where Odysseus and his crew encounter both Scylla and Charybdis during their voyage back to Ithica following the conclusion of the Trojan War.

In a press statement by Nuri Ersoy, Minister of Culture and Tourism: “These extraordinary sculptures are quite important in terms of being rare works that reflect the baroque style of the Hellenistic Period and have survived to the present day with their original paints.”

The archaeologists suggest that the sculptures were made by sculptors in Rhodes during the early 2nd century BC and are the oldest known examples from antiquity.

[erinoma9]

Moments from the Age of Bronze - The Story of the Trojan War Comics - #9 & #10

#9

End of Vol 1. A Thousand Ships

#10

Vol 2. Sacrifice