#katie di solace

[ottpopfic]

Its been very entertaining to watch the 6’3” wall of muscle attempt to chase down his goddaughter to get her ready for school, especially with the newest foster kid on his hip. Four-year-old Cole is having a blast being lugged around as Katie and Jason do laps of the main room. It extremely comical from Piper's point of view, all she can see behind Leo is the top of her niece’s head speed by back and forth followed by a frazzled Jason and giggling toddler

“Hang on a sec Pipes” Leo finally gives into helping, turning on his stool to call to his god kid “Nena! Pantalones, vamonos!”

“No!” a little voice yells back

“Di Solace, es hora de ir a la escuela! Pantalones!”

“NO!”

“One sec ill be right back” Leo tells her before taking off after his god kid

Leo is a lot less gentle than Jason is, and he's not lugging a toddler around. From Piper's view in her rainbow it's a solid minute of screaming in Spanish, a crash, and then a squealing Katie is flying through the air onto one of the many couches. About eight pairs of paints follow, burying her under clothing as Leo stalks up after her

“Elige un par” Leo demands hands on his hips, being the only adult who can truly rough house with the kid has its perks

“No! No pantalones!” Katie wails back under her fabric tomb, kicking in distress

“Falda?” Leo tries to bargain

“She has gym today” Jason informs

“Doesn't she have one of those, what do you call them? The combination skirt thing?” Leo asks

“Skort?” Piper supplies

“That!” Leo says, snapping his fingers “How ‘bout a skort Chiquita?”

Katie thinks for a moment and then chirps her confirmation, Jason groans in relief before leading the kids off to find the aforementioned garment

“The sensory issues on that kid” Leo complains as he joins Piper again, running his hand through his hair “and I thought Jason and I were bad”

“Is it always this rough?” Piper questions

“I think it's her braces” Leo says “They just sized her up so her legs have to feel different. She's especially sensitive around her legs”

“I don't blame her with those knees”

“Me neither, but they sure as fuck don't slow her down”

“For real, but how did Jason not catch her though?”

“He babies her” Leo sighs “he can't help that he's a big softie and she triggers ‘the runt of the litter’ in his brain”

“Remember when you triggered ‘the runt of the litter’ in him”

“Shut up!”

[ottpopfic]

👀💦

NO ONE TOLD ME NICO AND WILL CANNONICALLY GET MARRIED AND HAVE KIDS WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME?!?!?!?

EDIT: i was lied to :( they do not cannonically get married :((

[pjotwitter]

500 followers post special featuring all the characters that have been in my posts + a few new ones ! ty for 500 followers 💖

[apollocabinrep]

PJO PRIDE HEADCANONS (FEATURING CAMP HALF-BLOOD) Pt1?

The Apollo cabin is by far the one filled with the most lgbtqia+ members. They hold late night gossip sessions and will tease each other /relentlessly/.

Followup for above; Austin, from canonical characters, as the resident aroace sibling has the most blackmail on his siblings because of these sessions.

Camp Half-Blood has always been a safe place for lgbtia+ demigods no matter what time period (the gods have had lovers of both genders since ancient times + Chiron training Achilles & Patroclus). Members of the community were often year-rounders for this reason, because even if they died young they could be their authentic selves.

Drew Tanaka is on the aroace spectrum and when she was younger thought there was something wrong with her due to not falling in love like her siblings. Silena Beauregard is the one that helped her through it.

Annabeth has to be careful in the state of Florida because a camera caught her beating up a homophobe. (Yes, it was a mortal. She had gone with Malcolm as support for him to come out of the closet to his mortal dad and step-mom.)

Every year before Manhattan, Jake (Mason) and Michael (Yew) would risk getting eaten by harpies to stargaze on top of the Apollo cabin roof. After the Battle, Travis and/or Connor would help Jake get up there and let him stargaze for the night. Mysteriously, the harpies avoided the area as if they had orders to leave it alone.

Cecil is the biggest ally in camp, so much so that he says things no straight man would ever dare.

Cecil: "I'd kiss a guy to show my support."

Lou: "That's not how it works. Also, you're dating me!"

Cecil: "Yeah, but allyship Lou Ellen. Don't be homophobic during pride month."

Lou: "I'm literally pan!"

The Hermes cabin has a list with everyone's flags and are like pride flag fairies.

Clarisse was the first person Will came out to as bisexual. She found him crying by the lake because he didn't think he would be accepted. They got to talking and she told him she was bi as well. "Take a look around, Solace. Times are changing and we can like who we like. Hades, look at your own cabin. You guys may have a single straight ally in there, because the rest of y'all sure arent straight."

Katie and Miranda help everyone decorate with flowers and put bouquets together.

Mitchell and Valentina have a betting pool on which couples are going to 'do the most'.

Nico's first pride month is definitely interesting. He had no idea that the camp would be so accepting or that there would be so many others like/similar to himself. (He spent most of it in a state of shock and talked Jason's ear off over Iris message.)

[raphael-angele]

If Hades raised Nico and Bianca Part 31 (Gay)

Mini Headcanon: Since Nico and Bianca are also Persephone's kids, they technically count in the Demeter children so they can sit in the Demeter table

At the Demeter table:

Will: Hey, Nico

Nico: Oh, hey, Will. *wipes food from his mouth, trying to act cool*

Will: Uh...Lou Ellen and I were gonna head over to the Apollo cabin's table. You wanna join?

Nico: Oh, I- uh- *looks at Bianca*

Bianca: Go ahead

Nico: *secretly excited* Cool, cool. Sure, why not? *goes with them to the Apollo table*

Bianca, watching Nico from afar: I never understood crushes

Katie: What do you mean?

Bianca: Like...how can you just look at someone and just...feel that way?

Katie: Well, love is complicated. But that's the Aphrodite cabin's territory. So, can't really say much

Bianca: I just don't get how you just see them and your whole day is made.

Zoë: Hello, Bianca

Bianca: *turns to her and instantly fixes her posture and fixes her hair* Zoë! Hey, hi.

Katie:

Zoë: *softly chuckles* What are you doing here? We've been waiting for you at our table.

Bianca: *small blush* O-our table?

Zoë: Yes, the one designated for those who reside in the Artemis cabin?

Bianca: Right! Right, right. Uhm...sure. I'll be right there.

Zoë: ...alright, then. *walks away*

Bianca: *picks up her plate and follows her* Sorry, hope you don't mind.

Katie:

[beuatifulbuttercup]

pjo tweets even tho twitter is DEAD

inspired by @phoenix--flying post go check out those posts^^

[moss-the-irishman]

Riordanverse race/nationality headcanons (Main characters and background characters alike)

This may be a very long post, and I’m throwing in little tidbits about appearances, so with no regard to any particular order, strap in:

(Seriously, this is a huge post)

Edit: Changed Luke from just Korean American to mixed Argentinian/Korean American, inspired by @tagthescullion

The Seven (Including Nico and Reyna):

Percy Jackson: Biracial White/Latino, Cuban American (Sally was born in Havana, she had Percy shortly after moving to the US)

Annabeth Chase: Biracial Black/White, Irish/African American (with Swedish, Ghanaian and Polish descent)

Jason (And Thalia, by extension) Grace: White German American (Beryl moved from Germany to the US)

Piper McLean: Native American, Cherokee

Leo Valdez: Latino, Mexican, Born in Texas

Hazel Levesque: Black, African American, New Orleans (1940's French Creole)

Frank Zhang: Chinese Canadian, Vancouver

Nico Di Angelo: White, Italian with Russian descent, 1920’s Venice

Reyna Avila Ramirez Arellano: Latina, Puerto Rican

Camp Half Blood:

Will Solace: Biracial White/Bangladeshi American, Texas

Luke Castellan: Mixed Argentinian/Korean American (Born in the US, May (or Mi-Hee) grew up in a Argentine Korean community in Buenos Aires before she moved to the US and met Hermes)

Malcolm Pace: White with albinism, Scottish, Glasgow

Travis and Connor Stoll: Mixed Scottish and Laotian, Edinburgh (Source: @freddie-77-ao3)(I think in the TV show, they cast two Asian boys as the Stolls, so I've made them Asian)

Alice Miyazawa: Japanese American, Los Angeles

Julia Feingold: White Luxembourger, Luxembourg City

Cecil Markowitz: White Austrian/Northern Irish (Born in Graz, grew up in Belfast since he was two, has dual citizenship)

Katie Gardener: White Scottish, Aberfoyle

Castor and Pollux Vintner: Black, Irish (Pollux is Albino, Castor wasn’t), Donegal

Michael Yew: Mixed Irish and Chinese, Limerick (Granny moved from China)

Lee Fletcher: White Irish, Donegal

Clarisse La Rue: Mixed French/Pakistani American, Arizona (Mother moved from France)

Chris Rodriguez: Afro-Latino, Nicaraguan (Moved to the states when he was seven, lived in the same neighbourhood as Clarisse)

Silena Beauregard: Blasian, African American and Filipino, Mississippi (French descent)

Charles Beckendorf: Black, African American

Jake Mason: White American, Wyoming

Harley Smythe-Davidson: Biracial White/Aboriginal Australian (Source: @freddie-77-ao3)

Nyssa Barrera: Latina, Panamanian, Panama City

Shane O’Doherty: White Irish, Laois

Christopher Chalkevas: White Greek/English (Born in Larissa, moved with his mother to Hackney, London at age five, has dual citizenship)

Clovis Karlsen: Wasian, Welsh (Welsh/Norwegian grandad, Indonesian granny, Source: @ashthenerdtheythem)

Chiara Benvenuti: White Italian, Florence

Alabaster C. Torrington: British Indian, English, Westminster

Lou Ellen Blackstone: Black with vitiligo, British Ghanaian, Birmingham

Drew Tanaka: Japanese American, New York City

Valentina Diaz: Latina, Colombia

Mitchell Singh-Donovan: Mixed Indian and Irish, Cork

Lacy Alfsen: White Danish, Copenhagen

Ethan Nakamura: Japanese, Tokyo

Damien White: White Irish, Northside Dublin

Miranda Gardiner: Vietnamese American, Massachusetts (Distant Irish ancestry)

Billie Ng: Wasian, Irish/Thai Canadian, Toronto (She grew up in Longford till she was seven, then she and her mortal dad moved to Canada)

Sherman Yang: Chinese American, Alaska

Marcus (Mark) Dooley-Wallace: White Irish American, Georgia

Ellis Wakefield: Black, Algerian

Holly and Laurel Victor: Sri Lankan American, Seattle

Meg McCaffery: Wasian, Irish/Vietnamese American

Camp Jupiter:

Dakota Cheshire: Black, Bermudian

Gwendolyn Nunez: Hispanic, Spanish American

Bobby Herrera: Latin American, New Mexico

Lavinia Asimov: White Russian, born in San Francisco

Larry Schumacher: White American, North Carolina

Leila Grunfeld: White American, Colorado

This has been a very exhausting post to make lmao. I gave some of the characters who don’t have canonical surnames my own Hcs for their surnames. Also, I am yet to read through trials of Apollo, so maybe I’ll come later back to add more Roman names to the list.

Tagging my moots that I like to see their opinions for this (as well as the ones I tagged within the list as well):

@aki-bara @ravingcoffeeaddict @ebony-reine-vibes @squiggle3worm @sleep-needer

[vallettamango]

Camp Half-Blood Headcanons

Things that probably would happen at camp. (Also ik that its set in the 2000s but just ignore I wanted to include some newer pop culture)

They have a annual memory/yearbook for the summer 

Chiron will pick a few kids from different cabins and give them old film cameras to capture moments from camp

Chiron takes the “yearbook” committee  group into nyc for a weekend they develop the pictures and make a single yearbook which Chiron keeps a stack of in the big hall where any campers can look back at past ones in their free time

A few years back at the request of some summer only campers he has started scanning the books digitally and emailing it to campers/parents so everyone can have a copy

They take one big camp group photo on the last day of summer

 There’s a section at the end called “camps most likely to” and/or voted most ____

Here’s a few of them: 

Connor Stoll is most likely to win a pie eating contest

Will Solace was voted most helpful camper

Austin Lake was voted to have the best smile 

Cecil Markowitz was voted to have the best laugh

Alice Miyazawa was voted most likely to stay calm in a stressful situation

Drew Tanaka was voted best dressed (Piper and Leo still think that’s not true camp opinion and that the voting was tampered with)

Nyssa Barrera is most likely to shave her head

the stolls obviously sell contraband to other campers (snacks, weed, makeup etc) 

Apollo cabin has 1 of 2 CD players in camp. When their older siblings would go home for the summer they would burn CDs with requests from everyone in the cabin and bring them back the next summer 

The other one used to be in the big hall and used communally 

It got broken during an intense food fight, everyone blames Ares cabin because their the ones that flipped their table over 

The secluded area at the top of the strawberry field is known as the date spot for older campers 

Aphrodite cabin made an initiative to have the camp supply campers with sex Ed and started a bowl of condoms in the infirm for anyone to take 

Will Solace (and the other counsellors before him) will have dance partys to cheer up their younger siblings. like they'll just turn on music and jam n dance, they even have a specific CD for it. (Lee Fletcher started tradition)

Katie Gardner from demeter and Rachel Dare started baking as a new camp activity during free periods. They also teach about growing your own ingredients and nutritional value 

Hermes cabin (Travis probably) once tried to make slap ass Friday a thing, it didn’t end well.

Definitely at some point some older campers in Demeter were growing weed in the greenhouse and selling it to other campers (in partnership w the stolls who distributed it)

they were stopped after about a month or two by Chiron who was not happy at all 

Once Sherman yang became head counselor of Ares they all got matching pjs (I’m sorry I just love that idea)

Valentina and Mitchell’s from Aphrodite like to braid the mains of the Pegasus 

Athena cabin loves to compete amongst each other of who can do sudoku the fastest, do a crossword first or win scrabble

Clarisse used to take ares cabin on morning jogs everyday 

Once Hephaestus cabin built a giant nerf gun that shot meatballs 

Aphrodite cabin covers their walls in posters of fashion and pop culture icons like: vivienne Westwood, the devil wears prada, Marilyn Monroe, 10 things I hate about you, destiny child etc 

they’re currently obsessed with Sabrina carpenter. Lacy brought the CD of short n sweet and they’ve been listening to it non stop (Apollo cabin has been nice enough to lend them the CD player when their not using it)

A bunch of the younger ish campers were obsessed with the magic tree house book series (iykyk) because the camp had a box set in Ancient Greek (somehow?)

They thought it was cool how the magic treehouse was kind of like the human vs demigod world so relatable in a way

Kids from all the cabins would share them so they got pretty beat up but they were very well loved until the day the binding literally fell apart

For year round campers their end of school year Summative for social sciences (geography, history, Ancient Greek/english) they each research an event in American history then explain how it’s related to a specific god and the impact they had on the event 

They all present them and they can present the project in any form they want (an art piece, a speech,  a retelling of the event etc)

When campers go for their last summer they sign their bunks

After the battle of manhattan or a demigod dies before they get to turn 18 their sibling will sometimes write their names on the bunks for them

Once Aphrodite cabin snuck into other cabins during the day and hid a photo of Channing tatum's abs under the bed slats of all the head counselors

Everyone was just confused when they found this random photo months later  

 If you walk by the communal showers on Apollo cabins shower day and you’ll definitely hear all them harmonizing to baby by Justin beiber

[thorntopieces]

assorted pjo/hoo headcanons

part 1 - part 2

autistic!will. i mean. i was one of the first people to write it (and post it on ao3, but i had stuff about it on my long gone old blog before then). this is true. to me. it's not incredibly obvious unless you know what you're looking for because 99% of the time he's eloquent and very passionate and maybe it's just the hyper healer in him and he'd like to think he passes well. but for people who know they can just tell. it's the voice, man /gn. gives you away every time /lh

pots!hazel. she ends up (mostly!) recovering from the fainting episodes associated with her flashbacks but still faints and feels unwell a lot of the time. she spends a lot of her energy and magic on staying conscious and aware, leaving her foggy and with flare-ups. will ends up diagnosing her half-way on accident during the three days nico stays in the infirmary. she doesn't faint a lot, but she will frequently have her vision black out when she stands and feel nauseous if she has to stand still for more than ten minutes (more or less depending on the day). together with jason and nico the three of them make up the fainting trio

reyna speaks excessively formally and politely when she's uncomfortable and the moment she feels safe around you she will just loosen up completely. it becomes very clear very quickly how much of her time is spent being uncomfortable

genderfluid!lou ellen. most of the time she's happy to be referred to as a girl, but some days it just feels wrong and she prefers to be referred to either gender-neutrally or masculinely. it's not something she's out about to anyone but her closest friends, partially because there's kind of enough stigma around being the child of hecate and also, it's not all that obvious, even to her.

nico is a bit like a social interaction vampire. he's not as shut off as others seem to think, he just needs to be given explicit permission to talk about his interests because he's worried about annoying other people, especially after bianca essentially abandoned him. he could talk for hours and hours about his special interests (because yes, he's probably autistic too) like mythomagic (he picks it up again with percy's encouragement), ancient languages and literature

will and katie (gardner) friendship. they bond over liking star wars and when lou ellen join their circle she manipulates the mist to recreate scenes from the movies. as she gets better at it she manages to make the light sabers glow, much to will and katie's delight

after the battle of manhattan and will/kayla/austin almost dying from being overworked, the camp gets together with mr d and chiron without the apollo kids' knowledge and figure out how to run the infirmary in a more sustainable way than just forcing apollo and athena kids to be there. eventually they settle on apollo kids doing 8-hour shifts but none at night unless someone is severely wounded. for the night shift, other campers work in rotating pairs where one sleeps for the first four hours and the other for the last four hours. a lot more campers gain appreciation for the amount of work the apollo (and athena) cabin put in to keep them alive and healthy and the apollo cabin doesn't die of burnout

t1 diabetic!kayla. she's been sick with it since she was six, but thanks to having a very supportive dad and a team of professionals around him considering his status as an olympic archer, her condition is well-managed (most of the time, war time is unpredictable) and she knows how to treat and manage it considering her demigod lifestyle. accompanying headcanon to this: while ambrosia and nectar is mostly to heal injuries and wounds of a divine and/or serious nature, it can short-term manage blood sugar. mortal intervention is always needed to fix the problem though. a bit like how narcan delays but can't entirely fix an opioid overdose

cecil wasn't properly accepted as a child of hermes at first considering he didn't express exceptional skills at the more obvious and everyday traits associated with the cabin (multilingualism, athleticism, thievery). first when he was found to accidentally being an exceptional saboteur was he properly accepted by the rest of his siblings. due to this he tended to hang out with the unclaimed children in the hermes cabin rather than his own siblings, especially lou ellen

hjs!cecil (hypermobile joint syndrome; double-jointedness). he's not good with most physical activities because of this and easily discouraged to even attempt most sports due to how his cabin alienated him for not being exceptionally agile, a trait associated with their cabin. it's not uncommon for his wrists and ankles to not work well (such as the twisted ankle in boo). however, he feels like he "compensates" for this by working in the shadows. when properly encouraged and supported, he prefers fighting with knives (close combat or throwing), relying on being obnoxious to throw the enemy off

[t1oui]

so i randomly started fleshing out a pjo au i've had in my head for a while now where oceanus attempts to take back the sea or whatever

it would take place during percy's senior year of hs and features everyone in the seven (except for jason - in this au toa happened entirely during the school year and therefore jason died earlier) + reyna, nico, will, clarisse, malcolm, katie, the stolls, and one of my ocs who is one of percy's mortal friends from high school

also features a few other characters like drew tanaka and jake mason who aren't part of the prophecy, lester/apollo and meg will also likely make an appearance. and percy's siblings ofc since it's yk... about the ocean. tyson of course but triton and kymopoleia. there are a few others who will show up but some of them i want to be surprises (yk, if i ever write this, which is honestly pretty unlikely)

other random details:

piper & drew reconciliation

will, nico, and clarisse friendship

exploration of side characters like the stolls, katie gardner, and malcolm pace (ft malconnor and tratie bc i'm a weak man and cannot exclude them)

jake mason and drew tanaka are 1) best friends and 2) depressed as hell but hey, jake knows a lot!

ghosts. that's all i'll say

percy being the extremely op guy he is

percy, triton, and kymopoleia being siblings (the past two bullet points are definitely inspired by the fic fishing in alaska, which i totally recommend)

instead of caleo we have past (unrequited) valgrace. and probably queerplatonic caleo but i haven't decided

also past jake x michael bc out of everyone in the series jake mason is the one i like to make suffer most <3

might add on to this post as i figure out more

[ottpopfic]

Something about Jason Valdez just attracts Venti

There is a herd of the storm spirits that lives in the midwest, running north to south during tornado season. The lighting in them is so kin to Leo’s husband that they always seem to find them. It's not an issue, not really, but every time they come through the static just builds and builds in Jason until he can't be touched without dangerously shocking those around him.

They always find him, once on their way north and then again on the way back south, pulling in huge lightning storms in their wake. it's better to just greet the herd so they are not confused by what they are feeling from him and move on naturally, Jason spending part of the day on the roof of the Way Station or flying high above the clock tower. After they are gone he can let off the extra electricity safely

The only bad part is that their goddaughter Katie doesn't understand why she can't have Uncle Jason cuddles right now. The kid is completely unafraid of the adults in her life's powers, totally trusting that they will never hurt her. And for nearly the year they have had her that's been true, but this is an innate aspect of Jason’s gifts, something he can't control. He would be shocking anyone right now with how much static is in the air

The freshly turned nine-year-old doesn't understand the passive part of that, she's too used to giving Jason the eyes and then getting picked up and toted around. The blond can't say no to her, especially not about that, even if they are all trying to get her to practice walking more with her new knee braces. Katie is a cuddly little kid, she loves to be held and carried, and Jason loves carrying her. It's not uncommon to see the other man going about life one-handed because he has the kiddo perched in the other arm, superpowered demigod strength used for evil

So when Jason called a ‘Blue’ with the oncoming storm, verbal explanations were not enough for the kid. All she knows is when she asks her Uncle Jason will hold her, and now for a reason that makes no sense he won't. Cal had been the genius for them to just show her, so here they are post hair day shower, sitting on the roof green while Jason flys high above them as Leo picks his way through the multiple products he needs to work into Katie’s hair

Leo has his back resting on a dozing Festus curled around them, using his metal as another grounding tool with all the lightning. It makes it easier to do Katie’s hair when she is as distracted as she is, a lengthy process of separating chunks to condition and detangle then add curling mouse, Leo’s god kid has a ton of long thick dark hair.

Usually they do it in Leo and Jason’s room, plopping the kid on the floor at the end of the bed and turning on Transformers as they pick their way through the routine. But today's show is something special, today it's all Uncle Jason

Katie is full of wonder as she watches Leo’s husband up in the sky, air spirits all around him. It's quite a sight, Leo keeps getting distracted himself. The storm they are pulling is rumbling low in the distance, the clouds a deep gray all around them, pausing as the horses greet their friend. They are bunting their big cloud heads against their husband, asking for pets and treats and to exchange electricity.

The air is full of the smell of ozone and heat lightning, each time one of the spirits connects with Jason they light up inside with the trade of static, the rolling vapor visible with the internal light. From what Leo can see with him so high above, his husband has a small soft smile on his face as he greets each creature in turn

[bugwolfsstuff]

I decided to start a oneshot of all the head counsellors having a party at cabin 12 set sometime after TLO but before Percy dissapears.

And I have a scene where mid way through the younger counsellors are sent away (Connor, Damien, Chiara and possibly Lou?) and it's just the older counsellors (Percy, Annabeth, Pollux, Travis, Katie, Drew, Nyssa, Jake, Clarisse and Chris because Clarisse invited him)

And now i'm wondering how old are Nico and Will?

Cause the wiki says Nico is 14 and Will is 16? (why does that age gap look so odd to me? I know its only two years but 14 just feels younger) but those numbers just feel off to me? Is Nico canonically 14?

[darlingtheflowers]

who do you thinks should have been part of the seven (Greeks)

[westanovencleaner]

help I need to figure out what each pjo character would order at a diner

[unubinary]

The head counselors are a master class in parenfication

-Pollux probably

[beuatifulbuttercup]

I’m back in my decedents phase

I hate Rise of Red cause it wasn’t even that good but i’m now obsessed with descendents-

Anyways here’s PJO/HoO characters and who their fairytale parents would be

VKs

Percy- Ursula

Nico- Maleficent and Hades

Hazel- Maleficent and Hades or Dr. Facilier (Idk I can’t chose)

Piper- Evil Queen

Leo- Gaston

Grover- Cruella De Vile

Reyna- Captain Hook

Rachel- Drizzela

Auradon Kids

Jason and Thalia- Belle and the Beast

Annabeth- Cinderella

Frank- Mulan

Connor and Travis- Jasmine and Aladdin

Katie- Fairy Godmother

Drew-Snow White

Will- Rapunzel

Lacy: Bashful

I can but also can’t explain all of these