#just. isn't queerbaiting. it can't be. by definition.

[bebrave-live]

Love the flavor of soulmates that is a main m/f partnership dynamic that's mostly platonic but also romantic but also dysfunctional and yet completely essential - like these characters would not work without each other, but they barely work with each other, and most importantly they know each other carnally better than anyone else, but it's also not about sex at all it's about the partnership and navigating the highs and lows of intimacy and letting someone in, but also maybe they do fuck, but also maybe don't, but also...

[lucystark12]

milevens are insane

warning now - i get extremely heated in this so if you're going to tell me to calm down leave. before any of you weird bitches tell me to go do something more productive or to touch grass- no. i'm fifteen, it's summer, and i'm a highly involved high school student. i'm not here because i have nothing better to do, i'm here because i understand good writing and am able to have hobbies ❤️

anyways

was on the mileven endgame hashtag just now and because i don't choose violence i wont be addressing any of them directly, but i will be addressing some of the ridiculous bullshit on there. term bullshit used intentionally

the love confession came as a result of mike "gaining the confidence" to tell el how much he loves her because he was afraid that he loved her more than she loved him.

are you listening to the words that are coming out of your mouth right now? i want to sit down and get a coffee with you and dissect what the fuck you meant by that. sure, right, yeah, he gained so much PRODUCTIVE confidence from his conversation he had with will where will was using eleven to mask his own feelings for mike. it makes so much sense narratively that this end all be all mileven event is sparked from will's feelings and not mikes! sure! right! this is such an idiotic piece of reasoning. you are literally saying that you are okay with your endgame ship only being endgame based on faulty communication and lies. are you joking? "you just gotta improve your motivation" ass piece of evidence

also, mike being insecure about loving her more than she loves him is complete, total, utter bullshit. el frequently expresses her love to mike via letters and youre here to say that mike would have any problem with doing the same thing if he were insecure about her love for him? that literally makes no sense. i wouldn't be afraid of loving somebody more than they love me if they are actively putting more effort into insuring me that they love me than i am to them. like, what does that even mean?

“Will Byers is a pathetic loser annoying character and contributed little to the plot of ST. "

yes that is a direct quote. no i'm not kidding.

what kind of fucking neanderthal watches stranger fucking things- a show about a kid who disappears- and thinks the kid who disappears isn't a central part of the narrative? the first episode of the goddamn show is called "the vanishing of will byers"! maybe this is hard for you and your confused brain to get your head around, but el and mike met when mike was out looking FOR WILL. mike and el are still together because mike gained courage from WILL'S LOVE FOR HIM. what a fucking idiot you must be. i would try to explain to you the myriad of other reasons why will is absolutely central to the plot of the show, but since the show itself has clearly gone in one ear and out the other, i probably wont be able to get through to you either.

“what if we learned to cope with world that doesn’t accept us as individuals by embracing each other completely?” said about mileven

um.. what. that's literally byler. closeted gay guys in the 80s. but sure, the ones that aren't being accepted are the two white and allegedly heterosexual individuals. the "world that doesn't accept us" in question is a few high school bullies in comparison with the stigmatization, violence, and ostracization that has longstanding been a part of what it means to be queer. be so serious right now. mileven is not important for being non conformist, the GAY SHIP IN THE 80S IS!!

“The only people who queerbaited, was byler fans themselves lmao.”

even if we're ignoring the horrible grammar there are still SO many things wrong with everything that was just said. what they're saying above for anybody who can't decipher the weird medieval english code this person is using is that bylers actively queerbaited themselves which inherently makes no sense at all.

below i have included the oxford dictionary definition of queerbaiting: "the incorporation of apparently gay characters or same-sex relationships into a film, television show, etc. as a means of appealing to gay and bisexual audiences while maintaining ambiguity about the characters' sexuality."

how is it possible that byler shippers themselves are the ones doing the queerbaiting? are we running the show? nope! before you come on and post something as offensive as this- which i will get into- at least make sure you know what you're saying. xoxo

to insinuate for even a second that mike wheeler not being gay would be anything other than deliberate queerbaiting is insane. there is something wrong with you. aside from the parts of the show where his queerness is deliberately alluded to like music, costuming, analogies, allegories, and set design, netflix has been, weather you like it or not, actively marketing in favor of byler and mike not being straight. all below come from official netflix accounts-

how is this not queerbaiting? genuinely what are you on about. this is literally textbook.

“will is fruity but mike didn't like the fruit on his pizza”

you seriously are basing your argument about mike not being gay on him not liking fruit on pizza? you seriously think that some of the most commended and celebrated writers of the last decade would use symbolism involving a word that can literally be interpreted as a slur when their show has two characters who are canonically a part of the group affected said slur? are you fucking stupid? that was harmless banter used to communicate the differences in habitual action across the country. it wasn't the duffers trying to do for you what they do for us in deliberate, straightforward NON-OFFENSIVE symbolism.

i saw somebody claim that mike's character arc in season four was inherently about not believing in his self worth nor in his competency to be in a relationship with el

while i do for the most part agree with you, i'm going to ask you a question- mike was never anxious about his identity and self worth involving el before season four. why do you think that just came up now if not for the fact that he's been having insecurities involving his sexuality and romantic attraction to women as a whole? in my opinion, mike realized that he might not like girls in that way circa the end of season three- a realization that only festered and grew through the absence of not only the boy he loves that is causing this insecurity but the girl whom he is using as a way to say hey, i can't be gay, i have a girlfriend! mike was clearly going through some serious emotional struggles as we can immediately see in this scene with how suddenly awkward he is with will and the immediate emphasis that's put on the "from mike" on the flowers.

i agree that his season four and part of his season five arc are about his feelings of insecurity about being in a relationship with el, however, i don't think he's insecure because he thinks she's better than him in the sense that she's some superhero, i think he thinks she's better than him because he knows that he'll never be able to love her the way she deserves to be loved. he's not going to outright come and say to will that he doesn't think that he can love her in the way she deserves to be loved. he's closeted. what he says in the van scene is the only way he knows to express his feelings. it's very similar to what will does in the same scene. it makes no sense for this insecurity to randomly manifest in him if it wasn't for an external factor that doesn't involve el, because nothing has really changed with the dynamic of their relationship other than the move. one could argue that mike is feeling insecure over el's supposed popularity she claims to have in her letters, but mike's arc has never been about caring about popularity in school. that's not something on his mind so much as the grand scheme of the world is. lets not forget that he joins hellfire in season four.

“When Mike didn’t say “I love you”, By*ers twisted it to their narrative. When Mike did say “I love you”, By*ers twisted it to their narrative.”

you literally sound like trump going on about the democrats. listen to what your saying right now. also, it's a ship name. there's no need to censor it you fucking weirdo.

wasted time building up mileven

i'm sorry, what build up? i'm confused. there's no "build up". THIS is build up:

above is will, possessed by a monster who feeds off of those lacking love in their lives, only being able to be broken out of possession by a heartfelt monologue by the PERSON HE LOVES detailing how the best decision he ever made was to befriend him.

above is will claiming he will never fall in love, then his love for one of the other main characters becomes a central plot point of the two seasons to come. joyce and i see through will and all of you weird milevens

mike telling will how it's not his fault will doesn't like girls only after he loses the person he's been using to cover up his own insecurity about the same thing- not liking girls. suspicious.

will's LOVE FOR MIKE being the thing to give him the confidence to help el SAVE THE WORLD, only episodes after we establish that mike is bound to be pissed that he was lied to. and theres no buildup? THERE'S REALLY NO BUILDUP?

if you don't see buildup i fear you are literally just a lost cause because it is so painfully obvious to anybody who made it past seventh grade english class that there is something deeper and more intimate than friendship going on between will byers and mike wheeler.

“Women can be independent while being in a relationship guys😭!!”

OBVIOUSLY! i am literally the biggest feminist on the entire western seaboard. i couldn't agree more with this, which is why we have arcs like nancy's where she actively becomes more independent while still maintaining a relationship with jonathan. the difference is that mike and el have been together since they were like thirteen. when el was immersed into the real world for the first time in season two she immediately leaned on mike for support in that. it's not that she can only be independent on her own, it's that mike is directly symbolic to her of a time when she was stumbling around the world with naivete and not quite knowing how to navigate that. by spreading her wings away from that relationship, it will not only give her independence, but also a way to see beyond the barriers of hawkins and a life where she was valued mostly for the qualities she brings to the supernatural equation. el's arc is one of my favorites. i would never claim such a thing and discredit the essence of what makes the emotions behind her character so interesting. she's somebody who was literally raised in a lab. she shouldn't be held back by somebody she is quite literally dependent on.

last but not least, i saw a post that said milevens always win.

"are you sure about that?" i ask, noah schnapp's most recent instagram post open on my phone, finn wolfhard's spotify playlist in my headphones, my mike holding will's painting funko on the desk in front of me, wearing a yellow shirt with a blue sweater over it.

thank u for listening to my ted talk 💙💛

[miwiheroes]

If Will were a girl, how do you think the average audience would react? Would they say she's also a homewrecker or a slut? Or that her and Mike make much more sense and chemistry?

I think there would still be a shipping war, like there is with Jancy and Stancy. Therefore, toxic people on the Mileven side of things would likely call her that yes -- but I think that's not the issue brought up by people who are asking the question of : What if Will were a girl?

If Will was a girl, people probably would see Byler as having more of a chance, people would be more receptive of the idea of it happening because it's straight. People would be much much more likely to see their romantic scenes as romantic and the showrunners and interviewers would definitely be asking the actors more about this love triangle.

But a lot of the reason why so many people , including queer people, think that Byler won't happen is because it's a queer ship. These are the common doubts:

Will's unrequited love is realistic. Many gay boys have crushes on their straight best friend.

Will's sadness is realistic because he is a gay person in the 80s.

Mike loves El meaning he is straight and can't love Will who is a guy.

The showrunners can't make a gay love story the main focus of a huge show like Stranger Things.

The showrunners might be queerbaiting like a lot of other shows.

Doubt number 1 is eliminated if Will was a girl because straight unrequited love is not seen as realistic.

Doubt number 2 is eliminated if Will was a girl because she would be straight and not discriminated against for being gay in the 80s.

Doubt number 3 is eliminated because both El and Will would be girls, meaning Mike can equally have a chance of being with either of them.

Doubt number 4 is eliminated if Will was a girl because the writers would not need to make as big of a social leap to make Mike and Will in love.

Doubt number 5 is eliminated if Will was a girl because.... well it's obvious.

I kind of don't like this argument. Yes, if Will was a girl, people would probably be more receptive to the idea of Byler happening. A lot of the reason people don't see it is because of heteronormativity. BUT a lot of the reason why I think Byler is happening is because MIKE IS QUEERCODED not just because Byler have romantic chemistry. Part of Mike's arc isn't just realising that he's in love with Will, it's realising that he's queer.

This is a gay love story, don't try to water it down by simply asking questions like:

"What if Will was a girl?"

"If Mileven were gay would you like them?"

Ignores the queer building blocks of the story. Byler is the dynamic that it is because they are queer in the 80s. Mileven is the way it is because they are a straight couple pushed together by trauma and guilt.

EDIT: GUYS LOOK IN THE REBLOGS

[gophergal]

Perhaps an obvious one, but for the ship ask game – HeavyMedic? :3

"What do you mean, obvious?" I ask dumbly, looking at my laser engraved HeavyMedic coaster

What made you ship it?

Funnily enough, I do this thing when I'm considering getting into a fandom where I just kinda peruse as much of the fanworks as I possibly can. Probably very common. I saw that Heavy and Medic were a popular ship, looked into why, was rapidly convinced. Definitely helped by the similarities they have to my other Main Ships from previous fandoms.

What are your favorite things about the ship?

I'm a sucker for ships that are dangerously devoted to each other. Mostly when they're dangerous to anyone who threatens their beloved. They make each other better, have one another's back, serve as a center point of the team. I think it's really beautiful how their popularity isn't just based on secondary source material (the animations and comics), but also the gameplay itself! A good Heavy/Medic duo in game is a force the whole team can rally around, and- honestly? I've got quite a few scenes in mind inspired by Heavy/Medic pairs I've seen in game (none I was part of though lmao. Forever alone medic main)

Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?

HEAVY IS NOT AN ACCESSORY TO MEDIC. THEY ARE EACH THEIR OWN CHARACTERS. THATS WHY THE SHIP IS SO NEAT. I can't STAND fic where Heavy's entire character boils down to "I Love Doktor <3". If you write it, thats fine, but man. I love Heavy, if I didnt like him as a character I most likely wouldn't be shipping Medic with him. Heavy CANONICALLY shows discomfort towards some of Medic's antics. Not only is is totally fine if they experience conflict on that front, it makes the ship more interesting. Let them argue and question if their relationship is going to make it. They dont need to be Goals to be worth shipping (though they certainly can be. Both Is Good is what I'm trying to say) While Red Oktoberfest is my favorite merc/merc pairing and I'm thus biased toward them, PEOPLE CAN SHIP HEAVY AND MEDIC WITH OTHER CHARACTERS. Even OCs. I know thats not specific to this ship, but by god do I see people try to enforce that "Heavy/Medic is CANON so you have to ship them". They are not canon. Makani's artwork that wasn't part of the published comics is Non-canon. The VAs' shipping them and making (psuedo official???) fanworks, despite how FUCKING COOL that is, doesn't make it canon. In the comics, SFMs, and games they are not explicitly shown to be or described as a couple in a romantic/sexual sense. Now, the ship is LAMPSHADED (alluded to by the creators) frequently. Which is fun! And they are meant to be close! But I feel like this very much a K/S situation. Yknow, since Gene Roddenberry was like "well, if I want Captain Kirk to be popular, then I have to make people associate him with Mr Spock, so now they're besties" then that close friendship and deep devotion read as homoeros to folks and was later alluded to by other writers of the source material? I'm not saying it had the same motivation. I don't think this was meant to be a way of making either Heavy or Medic more popular, but I do think Valve originally just wanted to depict them as a Duo. A well oiled machine. Doing so makes sense, given it mirrors how they work in the game. But over time they realized that fans picked up on homoeros undertones, and not wanting to alienate either the fans who saw HeavyMedic nor the homophobic fans (as alienating either would cut into their profits/cause a backlash), Valve began walking the tightrope of shipteasing, but not being too explicit I dont want to call it queerbaiting, because really? It's not used so much in the marketing. But it is kinda a frustrating thing to see. But uh, long yap short. I suppose my most unpopular opinion is "Red Oktoberfest isn't actually canon, even though it easily could be"

[inairthings]

The Magic of Eddie Diaz?

Another spoiler-heavy post, featuring an episode 8x17 of 911, which was very, very interesting. I don't know how reliable IMDb is because anyone with an account can vote, you just have to register to do so. The ratings haven't come out yet, but I suspect they'll be quite high. I planned this post in my head, but I didn't have anything handy to write down, and my phone's battery was running low, and I forgot my power bank at home. So, as I was writing this, I realized I was forgetting a lot of things I'd like to say. But it doesn't matter. If I don't write everything I have in my head now, I'll do it another day. After all, there's still one more episode left in the season.

POST IN SPANISH

Bobby is hinting that he’s 100% dead (I don’t want to believe it) so the show now needs something to pull it along, I don’t see any character having the pull that Bobby/Peter Krause could give it, not even the extraordinary Angela Bassett/Athena, whose stories lately I don’t know if they make sense or not, rather I think they are just to remind us that she’s still there with what I feel like they are wasting her potential, just like Maddie, with her kidnapping and now Baby Han who will supposedly be born in the next and last episode of the season, surely taking up a lot of unnecessary minutes. The thing is that last week they’ve done a lot of promotion for Buddie, and even Ryan Guzman and Oliver Stark have several interviews together scheduled next week, too much of a coincidence for it to just be smoke, right?, Are they going to use Buddie as a new hook?, How are they going to use him? That’s the matter.

This week's episode had a huge variable, and that's the return of Eddie Diaz, the episode had some intense Eddie content, like his conversation with Hen and Karen, and I realized that I want more moments between Eddie and Karen, from there a beautiful friendship could come out, also very intense scenes with Buck, like a fight in which they show us that Eddie receives the devastating call in the early morning being alone and with the complicated task of telling Chris, he shows his deep sadness for Bobby's death, even a lot of guilt for not helping, doubting if his presence would have changed things, like Eddie said: Bobby saved his life, we also have a scene of Buck calling Eddie a jerk when he left him a note saying he was going to the airport and obviously believing he returned to Texas, the scene when he returns home and sees Eddie to reveal that he only said he was going to the airport, not that he was going to Texas, to reveal that he only went to the airport to pick up Chris , who is shown to be very sad for Bobby, also a great conversation between Tia Pepa and Evancito, with Pepa calling him “Cariño” (dear, honey…), I think she sees something between Buck and Eddie, our Eddie.

If with everything we've seen, Buddie isn't canon, it's definitely something to want to cancel this show. They can't use Buddie as queerbaiting, they can't keep dragging it out to keep people glued to the television waiting for them to be canon and for Tim Mienar to slowly make it clear that it's always going to be a I can but I don't want to, no, right now Buddie has only one way out and that's to be canon, this episode has made it too clear, and it's something we can repeat constantly, they have so much chemistry on screen that I think it erases everything else, if they want the series to survive Bobby, it's time for Buddie to have a big weight, but not as best friends, but as a couple, although they take it step by step without rushing. Season 9 has to start with Buddie canon and they have to give a very clear proof in the last episode of Season 8 in a week.

If the ratings for episode 8x17 are high (they haven't come out yet), although those for 8x16 were high, I think it's because of the curiosity of the doubt of whether Bobby was alive or dead, and the scores too, on IMDb the episode has a score of 8.9/10 (I don't know if IMDb is very reliable), for me it's only going to be due to one factor, and that's Eddie Diaz and that there was already a lot of anxiety to see him, the mistreatment that we know was given to this character in Season 8B has been scandalous and I think that has made many people empathize with him, basically they treated him like a secondary character, preventing him from being in the episode I think was the most relevant of the show, even the franchise, and not being able to say goodbye to Bobby, something that I think is going to haunt him for a long time, he knows what it's like to lose coworkers who were also friends, and Bobby for Eddie was more than a friend, he was a mentor, a father figure, a savior.

We must stick with the fact that Eddie is back. From the very first minutes of the episode, we've learned that he's been offered a position with the El Paso Fire Department, the question is whether he's returning to Los Angeles or staying in El Paso for good. I think, why would he bring Chris back to Los Angeles if not to stay? We know he's staying home, in Los Angeles, Hen realized that he referred to Los Angeles as home. Now, there remains the question of how to integrate him into the 118 again, Hen said that there would be a paramedic position left because they had offered him the position of captain. In the end, I bet it's going to be Chimney, this leaves the other paramedic position free and Eddie could fill it. Is Eddie and Hen a working couple? I love it, and if Hen finally overcomes her fears and decides to be Captain, Chimney will be an excellent partner for Eddie, although they would be very dangerous if there are paranormal issues involved. They gave us one of the funniest episodes of the entire show, with a cursed bracelet as the protagonist, and Eddie would be back at the 118, the place where he belongs.

EDITED: The ratings for episode 8x17 have already been released. They weren't as high as other weeks. It didn't reach 4 million, although it was close to it. But I think there were major sporting events in the United States on Thursday, like NBA?, I don't know if that had anything to do with it, or if Peter Krause's forced departure from the series will have consequences. I imagine they haven't yet accounted for the global ratings from the streaming platforms.

I haven't had much time to review this post, so please forgive any mistakes. I have a habit of writing posts in Spanish and then translate them.

[the-yappstronaut]

Mike Wheeler will be mislabelled.

I think the most disappointing aspect of Byler becoming canon is the fact that no matter what, people will be in chin-deep denial about whatever Mike's sexuality is. Like they could have him state, on screen, point blank, "I am a gay male" and some people would still be ignorant and call him "straight" or "confused" or "bi", because that's unfortunately how it works when queer people are placed into popular media (e.x. how people still believe, in 2025, that Will is in love with El).

But I think that with Mike it will be especially disputed due to his past relationship with El, no matter how they express his feelings and label him.

If Mike is labelled explicitly as "gay", then people will say it came out of nowhere. They will scream from the rooftops that he can't be gay because he dated El, and gay guys don't date girls. They'll say he's bi, at least. Despite any and all proof of Mike's sexuality, people will continue to ship Mileven, just like they continue to ship Willel, Stobin, and whatever other weird ships they come up with, fully erasing Mike's sexuality.

But if he's labelled as "bisexual," he'll fall victim to the extremist bi erasure treatment. He'll get called "confused" from both ends of the spectrum; people will refuse to believe that he ever liked El (both bi and gay truthers can be stubborn about his feelings for her), and others will refuse to believe that he ever liked Will. It's still so normalized for bi people to be told that they can't like more than one gender, and that will extend to Mike, even if he's just a fictional character. Worse, they would call his bisexuality "lazy writing" and an "easy solution" to the love triangle, just because he liked both El and Will, and completely shit on the whole sexuality arc.

The craziest thing would be if a specific label isn't adressed in the show, if he's labelled as "unlabelled," or even if he just says something like "I'm not sure what I am, and I'm okay with that." People would go batshit insane, claiming that Will was just manipulating him into loving him and that he isn't actually queer, he's just "confused." On the other hand, some Bylers would be mad that they personally "don't know what he is" and say that they waited for him to come out for nothing (most people, like me, would support unlabelled Mike, but many others wouldn't).

On the other hand, there's the helicopter-crash-level queerbaiting we would have gone though if Mike is definitively labelled to be "straight." It would be damn near impossible for me Bylers to accept that Will's feelings weren't reciprocated. The creators would get valid backlash for the way it ended, even if it was "for the best."

Anyway, it's just sad that whatever way they decide to take Mike's sexuality in s5, homophobia or biphobia or whatever is inevitable. Like, in the end, I don't care, because the backlash doesn't affect me in the slightest, but prejudice in fandoms is always disapponting.

[eisforeidolon]

MISHA IS SUPERNATURAL BIGGEST MISTAKE.

CASTIEL COULD HAVE BEEN AN INTERESTING CHARACTER, IF HE HAD BEEN PLAYED BY A TALENTED AND PROFESSIONAL ACTOR. ESPECIALLY PROFESSIONAL AND SERIOUS.

WE DON'T DESERVE MISHA'S LIES AND QUEERBAITING.

BUT I THINK THAT MISHA ONLY TALENTS ARE LYING TO PEOPLE AND QUEERBAITING HIS DESTIEL FANS FOR MONEY. THIS ARE THE ONLY THINGS HE KNOWS HOW TO DO.

DESTIEL ISN'T CANON. JENSEN SAID THAT SO MANY TIMES.

HE EVEN SAID THAT WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT "THE CONFESSION 'S RESOLUTION".

HE SAID THAT THERE WAS NOTHING TO BE RESOLVED. BECAUSE EVEN IF THE "CONFESSION " WAS ROMANTIC, FOR DEAN NOTHING WOULD CHANGE.

DEAN ISN'T IN LOVE WITH CASTIEL. HE ADDRESSES CASTIEL AS DEAN 'S FRIEND AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE CLOSEST TO HIM. BUT THAT'S IT.

JENSEN NEVER ADDRESSES CASTIEL AS DEAN'S POTENTIAL LOVE INTEREST.

JENSEN (AND JARED) SAID MANY TIMES THAT SUPERNATURAL IS ABOUT SAM AND DEAN AND THEIR DEEP BOND AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

15X20 IS THE PROOF OF THAT LOVE. WINCEST IS MORE CANON THAN DESTIEL WILL EVER BE.

I'M TALKING ABOUT PLATONIC LOVE OF COURSE.

I SHIP WINCEST BUT UNLIKE THE HELLERS I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT IS CANON AND WHAT IS JUST A FANTASY.

15x20 SHOWS TO THE VIEWER THE ESSENCE OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SAM AND DEAN.

SPOILER FOR 15X20.

SPOILER FOR 15X20

SPOLER FOR 15X20

DEAN DIES, BUT EVEN IN HIS LAST MOMENTS HE COMMITS HIMSELF TO ONLY LOVE SAM. HE SAYS HE LOVES HIM AND THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THEM TOGETHER AGAINST THE WORLD.

" IT'ALWAYS BEEN YOU... AND ME". THAT'S WHAT DEAN SAYS.

THE PAUSE IN THAT PHRASE, THE WAY THEY EMBRACE, THE FOREHEAD TOUCH. EVERYTHING IN THE SCENE IS POINTING TO WHO IS WATCHING THAT DEAN GREATEST LOVE IS SAM.

THIS IS A CONFESSION. PLATONIC AND SO BEAUTIFUL. BETTER THAN ANY OTHER "ROMANTIC" CONFESSION THAT I EVER SEEN OR I EVER HEARD.

END SPOILER FOR 15X20.

OF COUSE DEAN IS ALSO SAM GREATEST LOVE, BUT I WANTED TO GIVE MY ATTENTION TO DEAN 'S BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS SAM VS DEAN BEHAVIOUR TOWARD CASTIEL IN THEIR LAST SCENE TOGETHER. THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO.

WE ALL KNOW THAT SUPERNATURAL WAS ALWAYS ABOUT SAM AND DEAN AND THAT A LOVE STORY CAN BE ABOUT TWO BROTHER WHO SAVED EACH OTHER AND FOUGHT MONSTERS, EVIL CREATURES, DEMONS, ANGELS, THE DEVIL AND GOD FOR STAYING WITH EACH OTHER.

OF COURSE WE CANNOT SAY SAM AND DEAN WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT JARED AND JENSEN. THEIR ACTING, THEIR CHEMISTRY INSIDE THE SHOW AND OUTSIDE TOO, THEIR KINDNESS, IS WHAT MAKES SUPERNATURAL A SHOW THAT CHANGED MY LIFE.

I ALWAYS GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT THIS SHOW. THAT'S WHY I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE LIKE MISHA WHO ALWAYS SAYS SHIT ABOUT THE SHOW AND THE ACTORS ( JARED AND JENSEN)

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY RANT, SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH, IT ISN'T MY FIRST LANGUAGE, AND I HOPE THAT I DIDN'T ANNOY YOU OR BOTHERED YOU.

MAY LOVE AND KINDNESS ALWAYS FIND YOU.

I have to agree. Also, your English is fine and I definitely understand the need to rant about all this nonsense sometimes, that's why I've got this blog! <3

I do actually feel like Misha was a perfectly serviceable actor way back at the beginning. I even get why they decided to keep him around when he proved popular with the fandom. It was indeed proven a mistake in so, so many ways as time went on, though.

Yeah, first and most egregious is the kind of person Misha turned out to be - or at least turned into after so many years of fans blowing smoke up his ass. A bitter, entitled, ungrateful, lazy backstabber who is perfectly comfortable telling blatantly obvious and contradictory self-serving lies and nonsense. Whether that's about the ship or his relative importance to the show directly, whether that's skeevy sexual comments about Jensen/Dean, whether that's trying to paint Jared as some kind of evil bully that abused him. He keeps proving again and again there is no bar he won't limbo under.

Next is I think his performance on the show and what his continued presence on the show resulted in plot-wise from the writers. He was fine at first when he was just playing a non-human mysterious figure that only appeared now and then and had a major role in the whole structure of the apocalypse. He even had a pretty good arc leading up to the Leviathans. The problem was they kept him around as a "fan favorite" after that when they really didn't have anything for him to do but eat up screen time to give J2 time off. Would we have really gotten so much bad, circular angel politics if there wasn't a need to give Castiel something to do to keep Misha employed? I personally doubt it. Even worse than that, though? As time went on, Misha seemed to recognize that his only relevance was baiting shippers and wasting time and leaned into turning Castiel into the type of character he gets written as in so much bad D/C fanfic - a pathetic mostly human woobie who is completely useless for anything but the projection of bizarre teen romance fantasies that don't make any damn sense. Which culminated in that bizarre ambiguous queerbait he and Bobo the Clown cooked up for Castiel's exit. Which doesn't even touch his later seasons' presumable attempts at acting where his choices for Lucifer!Castiel & AU!Castiel & Empty!Castiel were all ... entirely made up of bad accents and gurning. It wasn't about any of those character's motivations or places in the narrative, it was about the laziest possible attempt to differentiate them from his normal character. Even in latter season's SPN, which IMNSHO had so, so many issues dragging things down, Misha's lack of interest in anything but the size of his paychecks and con earnings played into some of the worst.

Which brings us to D/C and the whole supposedly canon thing. Canon is literally what happened. D/C didn't happen, it's that simple. Castiel rambled some ambiguous bullshit about love and got sucked into the Empty while Dean looked bewildered and sad at him from several feet away. Misha can make up as many stories about what the character was totally thinking and how he was totally coming back in the finale and queerbaiting about what will totes happen in a revival, but not a word of it actually makes what Castiel said "I'm IN love with you". Nor does it magically manifest a reciprocation from Dean. What doesn't happen on screen but actors or TPTB say about the canon is often called Word of God. Which yes, Misha's does not outweigh everything Jensen and Jared and various showrunners have clearly said. Jensen might have gotten less confrontational about shooting it down over the years, but the underlying message hasn't changed. Meanwhile, not only do the details of Misha's stories constantly change, but the general message of his claims has flip flopped so many times. The show was about the brothers, no actually the brothers and the angel! He joked about wincest, no actually he'd never heard of it! He didn't want to say what that scene meant, no actually feel free to attack anyone who says it wasn't a homosexual declaration of love! There's more, but Misha's not worth the effort of looking them up.

As you say, at the end of the day, anyone watching the totality of the show and seeing how it ended? It's very obvious the center of the story was a platonic love story. A complicated one, granted, but Sam and Dean so many times made it very clear that it was them ... and everyone else. Except in the same way that acknowledging that doesn't serve the hellers agenda in demanding a continuation must center their ship so they can finally have visuals to go with their fanfic, acknowledging that doesn't serve Misha's agenda of fleecing them out of money for telling them it will happen for as long as he can get away with it.

[readandwritesilver]

wwdits spoilers

if u disagree that's okay and i see you and i hear you however i fully don't think being canon was ever nandermo's future. there were a few things about the finale that i didn't like generally but nandermo isn't one of them. both these characters are so complex and maybe if we're talking about how going back the last 2-3 seasons should have been strictured differently then yeah sure there are definitely ways the story could have been told where some kind of definitive romantic conclusion made sense but at some point we're just talking about a different show.

yes i thought the plotline with nandor and the guide was really weird. yes i wish last season and especially this season had the emotional intensity and serious moments/plots of seasons past. but even if both those things were true i still don't think oh look we confessed our love now we are kissing yayyyy was the ending they deserved😭😭 seeing people comparing it to like supernatural or whatever other [insert queerbait here] just. idk i feel the pain that is being expressed and i understand deeply the place that it is coming from but i think calling nandermo queerbait is very misguided. those characters are both explictly queer. and they explicitly care about eachother a lot. they are also both explicitly not in a place for that kind of ending to be a legitimately satisfying conclusion.

the whole point of the finale is that life is going to go on (literally) infinitely for these characters. all the vampires are going to be there for a very long time. guillermo has grown exponentially in the last six years and while he doesn't know exactly what he wants to do with himself, he has a much clearer picture of who he is in the first place and we can feel sure he's going to make descisions according to that. nandor literally says to him when they're leaving canon capital, you're not just a human anymore, you can't ever just go back to that life, and he's right. they are both going to live their lives, and sometimes they'll be together and sometimes they won't, and eventually maybe they'll figure out something that works between them and maybe they won't.

i love nandor and guillermo together. i have written i think around 40,000 words just on the subject and made countless more posts on here. this isn't about the quality of them as a pairing, it's about telling a story, and i just don't think that was the story wwdits needed to tell in order to have a good conclusion.

tldr i think season six had a lot of sloppy moments and there are a lot of things about the season as a whole that i found disappointing, however nandermo not going canon wasn't one of them

[nokay08]

FULL OPINION ABOUT MOOMINVALLEY 4 SPOILERS FOR MOOMINVALLEY SEASON 4 ⚠️⚠️⚠️

THE CHARACTERS:

There were some new characters introduced (like Joxter and Aunt Jane) that I thought were really great, along with others we've seen shine this season (Snork and the Groke), which I’ve been very pleased about. I know some people have complained about Sniff, but I thought he was rather cute, even if a bit annoying.

I particularly loved seeing Moomintroll more mature compared to his season 1 arc, where he would cry to his mamma (lol) and instead actually take charge of "operations." Moominmamma was great as always, and Moominpappa was really funny this season. Snorkmaiden also seemed more mature than at the beginning.

Some characters were definitely more discreet (COUGHCOUGH Snufkin COUGH), but overall, each had their moments.

NEGATIVE POINTS:

As I mentioned, some characters were left out, like Snufkin. I think it's odd that he didn’t get any episodes focused on him, especially since (correct me if I’m wrong) it seems like most characters had their own episode in this final season. It feels like he was barely present, even at times when he could have easily been included (like the Midsummer bonfire).

Another point, which ties into my last, is the weird getting back together of Moomintroll and Snorkmaiden. While I love the pair, we’d already established in previous seasons that this couple was not working out. For example, in the episode where they have their own house, or in the last episode of season 3, where Moomintroll is said not to be Snorkmaiden's soulmate. I love seeing them together as platonic friends, but not as a couple—it feels weird and rushed that they’re back together in a single episode.

And this leads to the final, and maybe most problematic, issue: the Moomintroll and Snufkin dynamic. In previous seasons, their relationship seemed to be gradually leaning toward something more romantic, especially in season 3 with the "Lonely Mountains" arc. Even as someone skeptical of ships, I thought the show was hinting at a romantic pairing. So, for season 4, I had expectations, but we ended up getting less than nothing. While there were some sweet moments, the lack of Snufkin this season makes me feel like they were avoiding any development of that buildup.

I'm genuinely disappointed. Not because Moomin and Snorkmaiden got together—good for them, I guess! ✋😭✋ But it just feels like they completely disregarded the whole Snufmin relationship here. It really sucks that the representation ended up feeling fake, especially from a show with an openly queer creator.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time (looking at you, BBC Sherlock 🫵😡), but it really can't keep happening. I wouldn’t have minded if Snufkin and Moomin weren't hinted at by the show itself, only to give false hope and, I guess, use those hopes for economic reasons.

CONCLUSION:

Okay ! It seems like there’s ton of negative points there but I swear I love that show 😭 It’s just that I feel like queerbaiting is not talked about enough and I hate that it keeps happening even in 2024!

but anyways, the show was great, and kudos to the animation crew for that great looking show 🙌💙

[34saveme34]

A Hitshow/Gunshow/whatever you call WPNZxPuzzles rant

Okay so, I just wanted to say a few words and I'll try not to get off topic, considering how there's another rant in me that is tangentially related to this.

First of all: I love all the silly fanart so much! It's really fun to see it, I mean there's a reason it's all over my blog currently.

I love all the ways we discuss them, how they could maybe even flourish together, half jokingly saying "they could fix each other" or "they could make each other worse" for the sillies, drawing them making out is also so real. People telling you off for drawing them can go suck on a particularly sour lemon.

Now. That is of course not the thing I want to in any way go against because like, I love the different interpretations on how people want to make them work and all that. But. But but but.

THE REAL first of all of this: saying they're canon or confirmed is wrong. It was in no way confirmed to happen, didn't nearly have enough interaction to be considered canon and of course- Sometimes scenes can be misleading.

Because I've been thinking about their one single scene together, something that was hyped up but definitely only because of Puzzles's comeback. I didn't want to like, fully admit it for a bit as an overly emotional person, but the tease and such were way more about his comeback than them teaming up, the team up was secondary.

AND I don't know a lot about bladerunners, I'm actually not well versed in movies and shows in general so it shouldn't be a surprise but as far as I know and how I've seen this scene interpreted before, it's NOT inherently romantic! And I feel like it was way way more so for the nature of the well- recruit I guess. It just so happens that well- Puzzles can relate very very well in a way that I'm pretty sure couldn't be said about the bladerunners original scene? I think? I gen don't know sorry. I'm saying this after reading people talk about it.

Like what it IS about VERY inherently is loneliness. And I feel like the scene implies romance less but perhaps.... future dependence? Like, I cannot tell you what the dynamic will actually look like between the 2, you and I, we can spin many many many many different ways on it could go, but in the end we will only know when they show us. Like Puzzles could absolutely control the hell out of him, they could develop a very bickery relationship that makes them look like an old married couple, maybe they genuinely end up depending on each other in a very toxic yet gratifying way like YES at last there is CARE in the world and they CARE LIKE NO ONE ELSE and stuff like that Idk. Probably not the 3rd because I don't think they'd ACTUALLY make them canon.

And as I thought about it, if they don't become canon, which they won't, it wasn't really queerbait. The scene just CAN have romantic vibes is all.

And now, before I get any bullshit, I will explain to you what queerbait is. Queerbait is about promising us LGBTQ representation and then either not following through with it or it being so quick you miss it. I don't think it is queerbait here, as I've talked about how the scene can be talked about in a non romantic way too. Also 34 not being canon outright isn't queerbait, they're just so bad at pulling they can't even outright pull each other, they have to skirt around it and act like we don't actually know. Like 4 being pretty much confirmed bisexual and not being with 3 doesn't mean that we're being queerbaited, actually what we have here is bitcless bisexual, an equally important asset to our dear community, just like the meme "Get a girfriend son" "Or a boyfriend, he's bi" "Damn nobody want you fr". Besides I think his queerness isn't really blink and you'll miss it if I'm being real. Neither is SMG3's being blink and you'll miss it. People are just in denial. So yeah, stop saying that SMG4 is queerbaiting us please <3 leave that kinda stuff for actually problematic instances of it, like how disney handles it.

Also my kind of crack thing but I have a curse where I only like pairings that don't become canon, and since I'm clinging on this one for dear life, the chance is anything BUT big.

[nicolegendary]

ok i have just talked myself into drinking the buddie IS going canon kool aid

the lynchpin stopping buddie from happening is eddie being straight. there have been three lines of dialogue this season about eddie being straight (when it was never commented on before. it's the norm to not comment on the characters' sexualities... for the straight characters. hen, buck, josh, michael, have all commented on their sexualities. hm. now we're suddenly talking about eddies sexuality. and these lines all came from eddie and buck. hmm.)

if they just wanted to leave the window open to decide eddie's not straight later on down the line, then they wouldnt be raising his sexuality in the show now. if they HAVE landed down that eddie is simply a straight character, then they would be able to definitely answer the buddie questions with "no". no, buddie can't happen, because eddie is straight. it's been said on the show now, he's straight. we can all stop asking about buddie.

but that's not what's being said is it? what's being said is welllllll! maybe no! maybe yes, but also maybe no!! them dodging answering this means either,

eddies straight and buddie's never happening but they don't want to outright say that because they'd lose the people watching for the will-they-won't-they (which I have to believe isn't the case because of how conscious shows have become now of queerbaiting), or

eddie isn't straight and the three comments we've gotten about his straightness this season are part of an overarching eddie's-not-straight plot that we're already in the middle of

[fernslivers]

Let me tell you something LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING—

Okay, first of all, you and me r TWINNING on the taizu ranting. I could make a three hour presentation with visuals and eye witnesses as to why their relationship ISN'T ROMANTIC and just is sm better as an experience for taigen to improve himself bcs in my eyes that's the main point of his character rather than being her husband or some fucking shit LIKE CAN WE PLEASE PLEASE NOT DO THIS.

Secondly, js a little thing to add to ur point, in the ending there's this little scene of fowler looking out the prison window right AND THE CUT ON HIS NOSE ISN'T HEALED, BUT HIS EYES BRUISED so that js further proves the time skip between the fire and boat scenes aren't that large and like a few days at best.

Personally i think it makes the best sense for taigen to go to ringo and master eiji, rest for a while and decide what to make of himself now that he has abandoned the role of being an honorable person and all, and he doesn't have a lover anymore rather than.. going to london on a journey he's not supposed to be on. It js defeats the whole purpose of mizu's revenge. IT'S NOT HIS FUCKING WHITE DAD TO KILL WHY'S HE THERE😭😭😭

"I'm mizu. I'm here to kill you for demonizing me with your blood and putting your hands on my mother. This is taigen. I'm not sure why he's here, and neither is he."

SORRY I TOOK SO LONG TO ANSWER BUT WE'RE SHARING THE BRAINCELL ON THIS ONE

Firstly, YES GOOD POINT on Fowler's injuries! That's so true!!

I've been thinking about this, and you know what I've been thinking? Fowler is a smart bastard, right? So he must have known there was a chance at failure. I'll bet he had a boat already set up to take him out of the country if he did fail, and THAT'S the boat they're on. He probably guided Mizu to it thinking that he got one over on her, only to get shoved in a cell when they got there muahahaha.

Also, I definitely agree on it making zero sense for Taigen to be there, but his whole romance-thing with Mizu ALSO made zero sense to me, so my trust in the writers is just nil.

Wait

I'll put a cut so nobody has to stare at my Taizu rant (I'll make it as brief as I can)

Sorry this is not planned out at all it's just word vomit.

OKAY FIRST OF ALL: putting aside the comphet, I don't actually care if they want to make Mizu bi or straight in canon because frankly:

I'm from the generation where all we HAD was fanon/queerbaiting so I'm just: that sign won't stop me because I can't read ... she likes girls in my head and that's all I'm worried about.

BUT

in this case, it just DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NARRATIVELY for her to be into TAIGEN. Her ENTIRE motivation in the show is "being born mixed race made my life and my mother's life hell, enough that I will literally die to have my revenge for it". THAT'S THE SHOW.

So you're telling me that if she's got that much hate for these men that only theoretically tormented her from a distance, enough that she's fine with three of them being just collateral damage, she's going to have an ATTRACTION to one of the people that ACTUALLY, PHYSICALLY IMPACTED HER. Taigen literally TORTURED her as a child. Nearly beat her to death several times. FOR being mixed-race.

And you're going to tell me that her first moment of attraction came WHILE HE WAS TAUNTING HER ABOUT HER DEAD MOM.

It would be one thing if he'd met her and been apologetic, but he WASN'T, he was a dick the ENTIRE show right up until he couldn't beat her. If Mizu had been weaker than him, he would have continued to treat her like shit. Hell, he would have KILLED HER. And you want to make HIM the one thing she thinks about at Madam Kaji's?? Before he ever shows an interest in her? When he still actively just thinks she's kind of strong but he still wants her dead? You want to try to tell me that she remembers that as a desire, and that she is happy to see him again in the castle?!

EW.

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

Like Mizu, girl, I know you have self-image issues and all but this is just the writers doing you dirty.

I'm with you in that I don't actually hate Taigen or his arc. If they had gotten rid of the romance aspect (because it didn't make sense for MIZU to be into HIM specifically), then I think his character goes through a really fascinating arc, and he does grow a lot. and that's why I have a lot of fun fitting him in platonically in my writing. I like writing him a little pathetic but not a monster, because he's just a fucking mess. He's an asshole because his dad was an asshole and that's very relatable. Just KEEP HIM AWAY FROM MIZU.

[love-byers]

Hi!! I binge-read some of your byler analysis, along with other users', and I can't help but STILL feel on the fence about hoping for byler endgame. I guess I just don't want to get my hopes super high only for them to be crushed by whatever CGI fest the düff3rs got in store to "go out with a bang" (while, obvs, sticking to the status quo and what they think the GA wants to see). I've seen so many intelligent people write media criticism pieces and analysis in support of the ship, but I still dread that the writers cry plausible deniability on all the clues they DID lay, that the people behind the N*f1ix social media accs confess that they've willingly posted queerbait to boost their engagement and thus get a bigger paycheck (I wouldn't blame them if they did, obvs; besides, it still means that some higher-up approved those misleading posts) and, worst of all, that this whole thing may end up blowing up negatively like the JohnLock conspiracy or the Voltron shenanigans or, y'know, the Supernatural fandom after Castiel's introduction and up until that lame ass final season. In your opinion, what makes byler different? Is there real hope for a satisfying mlm relationship from a show made by het men that capitalizes on 80s nerd culture nostalgia?

Sorry for coming off so jaded: I do wish for a byler ending, but it's been hard to keep my hopes aflame against these worries :c

i think everyone has some amount of doubt, which is totally understandable.

lgbt representation has come a long way, but a lot of us fans who are a bit older grew up consuming media that either had no representation or shitty representation. we sought ourselves in the media we loved and never found it, and corporations exploited that. nowadays there's way more representation that isn't left up to interpretation or censored, but a lot of the time that's in shows that are about romance and drama, high school a lot of the time. which is great, but stranger things is a sci fi show with romantic sub plots. it's easy for queer characters to end up being left out of a show like ST, but they haven't been at all.

one of the big messages of ST is embracing weirdness and being different. loving whatever it is you love, unashamed. when a character strays from being their true self or pushes away the things they love, there are consequences for the character. they become less likable to the audience. the entire theme of s4 is living in the truth, not hiding things, embracing love, being misunderstood simply because you're different. all of that is very queer coded. and it happens to be the season where will's love for mike fully comes into light.

there has been so much thought put into stranger things. the duffers have said there are no coincidences. they put thought into everything, thats why it takes so long to make a season, because they care so much. there are endless details i could point out not related to romance. they've also said they've been set on the ending for a while and will not be changing it to please people. i believe they said some people might not like the ending, but they don't care because they're making the story THEY want. which so far has uplifted queer people and promoted being different. so some antis may call be stupid for trusting them, but im choosing to. i believe they'll do these characters justice.

and my favorite quote from them is "The best plot twists don't make the audience say "wow I never saw that coming!", it makes you say "I should have seen that coming."

as a writer and a creative writing major, i definitely look up to the writers of ST. they are all incredibly talented and i hope one day i can put this much thought and love into a project. and, as a writer, i cannot see them throwing mike and will's relationship down the drain.

so, what makes byler different? there's very few shows where this much thought is put into everything. its not debatable that they do that, they've said it and its evident if you watch the show. so i refuse to believe all of these things between mike and will are just coincidences or accidents. there's just no possible way. i definitely had a klance phase and i can confidently say voltron writing is nowhere near the level of ST, and neither is supernatural. supernatural is one of those shows that has a lot of seasons and has gone all over the place in terms of writing and plot. the duffers have known the ending to this story since season 1. and unlike those shows with lots of seasons, ST only has 5. it won't be dragged on and beaten like a dead horse like some shows.

you don't have to completely eliminate your doubt. even i have doubt even after all i've said and posted. there is simply no way to confirm what'll happen before s5 releases, and they want it that way. just hold on until s5 friend

[chocolate-cream-soldier]

Ok rant time so putting under the cut //

This is about the whole Peggy/Dottie and Agatha/Rio parallel thing that people keep talking about and yes it's been bothering me. I mean, we are what, kind of 2 months after the show's finale now? so I get to rant a little, and I won't do so on other people's posts and art cause I am not an asshole duh so this is the best way to get it off my chest ha ha…I've seen the parallel gifsets and I have seen some posts floating around about it and every time I see them I am like but but that is so not a parallel!! It really isn't… other than it being a kiss between 2 women and them both being marvel properties. Because then by that standard every wlw kiss is a parallel of each other lol!

Peggy and Dottie are antagonists ( u can read it as romantic. I am not gonna stop you. Hayley and Bridget had great chemistry) but there's no history between them prior to the show. Peggy doesn't even clock Dottie as a threat initially. The reason why the kiss comes off as a surprise to her, she never anticipated it and that's why Dottie was able to get so close without rising any suspicion…

Rio also didn't anticipate the Kiss and that's why she initially failed to realize that it wasn't just a kiss but also Agatha siphoning her power and surrendering to Death!

so if we are counting the surprise element as the parallel then ok this one I'll concede.

But that's the end of it right?

The two kisses are fundamentally different in intent and visualization. I need to know that people understand that, cause if not you are really reducing the magnitude of the vidarkness moment

The Peggy/Dottie kiss is a ploy , it's for shock, to frame Peggy and get her locked up, to buy Dottie time to execute her masterplan, also Dottie initiates the kiss and Peggy suffers the consequences so even from a purely visual angle they don't match up.

In contrast the vidarkness kiss has so much heart to it, Agatha chooses to kiss Rio and the consequences are faced by both, it's not merely done for shock value, they have been building up to it, this was the culmination of a season long narrative arc, for Agatha to finally reconcile her loss of Nicky and her love for Rio and that they can co exist cause she realized that the blame doesn't lie with them, that sometimes boys just die, that out of death comes life and viceversa, that life runs in tandem with death. So her choosing to sacrifice herself by surrendering to her love, it puts to rest (it might be temporary but still) the war that had been waging inside her, the immense guilt and heartbreak that they were both dealing with. Love can't conquer all neither can it lessen the impact of grief but as we all know and hopefully believe- it does persevere.

The point is-I know most posts are tongue and cheek but it doesn't take much time for it to shift in tone and for nuance to get lost in the process. I have seen that shift happening, people being annoyed that the only time we get to see women kiss in mcu they are just getting conned or that it's a cheap trick( or queerbaiting) but that's so not the story when it concerns Agatha and Rio. I don't really get bothered with bad readings when it's some random dudebro but when it's people who claim to be fans doing this, it definitely grates on my nerves. Not saying you can't have a different take, and this show had it's limitiations, the lack of a backstory for Agatha and Rio is still a stinger for me personally, but I also liked the show for what it managed to explore and I appreciate the care that they put in making the show. So I guess I just want to encourage these kind of creatives and want them to feel empowered and bold enough to create more diverse stories. I know this is * piss on the poor* website but please please I need people to stop reducing stories into 5 sentence badly written summaries as if it's been generated by chatgpt, cause that's really counterproductive imo.

// that's the rant, sorry anyone who stumbled upon this suddenly and had to deal with my wordy and somewhat nonsensical ramble lol. I will shut up and go back to scrolling for pretty arts and fics on my dash now. Thanks and goodbye.

[but-a-humble-goon]

for, https://www.tumblr.com/but-a-humble-goon/754670294342500352/name-a-character-from-one-of-my-fandoms-and-ill?source=share

Cassandra Cain, naturally.

If you already got Cassandra then I'll take a wild swing and go for Emerald Sustrai.

I ain't got Cassandra yet funnily enough. Cassandra Cain Three personal headcanon facts about them -Even after she learns to talk she's still trying to figure out what's going on via inference in 90% of social situations. Words are challenging and not the kind of challenging she likes. -Cass hates stakeouts more than anything in the world. She is a creature of pure motion, she must be free. It takes all of her considerable will and discipline to sit still for longer than an hour or so and it feels like actual torture. -She gets sincerely very emotional listening to Evanescence. She's got no idea about their pop culture context, she just feels very seen by their music. Like she senses a spiritual kinship. A reason they suck Basically everything about how she treated Stephanie in Batgirl 2000. Didn't trust her, didn't respect her, tried very hard to drive her away, completely took their friendship for granted, was generally insufferable and mean to her constantly, took Bruce's side against her and pushed her into getting herself killed. A reason they are great Cassandra Cain is genuinely the kindest soul in the entire DC universe. She is the very essence of empathy and compassion. She would take on the entire world to fight for the life of even the worst person who ever lived. I've said it before but no matter how much the universe tries to hammer the message into her that you can't save them all her response will always be "watch me." A reason I relate to them She's terrible with her emotions and even worse at social interaction and everybody around her misconstrues this as her being emotionless or just projects their own biases onto her. People talk about her like she isn't even there and even though she acts like it doesn't sting, it does. She feels like everybody around her got given a manual on how to be human properly except her. Top tier OTP I don't really ship Cass with anyone. If she's gonna end up with someone at this point it should definitely be Stephanie to give the middle finger to all of the queerbait between the two over the years. Five things that never happened to the character that I believe should have happened. -We should have actually gotten to see her seeing Steph alive again for the first time after War Games and gotten all the devastating emotional fallout of that. -they really should have done a Cass vs Jason storyline at this point, it's kinda ridiculous that they haven't. -Batgirl 2000 should have had a real ending and not just sort of fizzled out the way it did. -Bruce really does need to sort his fucking life out and admit he's basically been feeding her self-abuse, ruining her life and failing her as a father and mentor. -SHE NEEDS A GODDAMN SOLO BOOK AGAIN Five people that the character never fell in love with and why -Conner Kent, much as I think there's probably still some not entirely platonic feelings between them, I don't think anything could ever really come of it, that's why I like where they left off. -Tai'Darshan, because that whole plotline was stupid. -Rose Wilson. If you were to ask Cass she'd tell you it's because Rose is a punk ass bitch. -Zatanna. I know it's like the joke that every bat is at least a little bit in love with Z but Cass could never be with somebody cooler than she is. -Any of her brothers, no matter what people seem to think, because that's disgusting.

[olderthannetfic]

re: voltron being queerbaiting.

I feel like there needs to be a word for can't-believe-its-not-queerbait (suppose it could even be called that) because its a big enough phenomenon in 'progressive' stuff that ive seen that its hard to talk about.

Defining it like;

It spends months, sometimes even years hinting a character ~might~ be queer in something in the extra content and information (interviews, behind the scenes, official tweets, etc) in a way that is clearly to get more viewership and drum up the fandom interest by dangling Possible rep.

Interviews with cast and crew and promotional material treat the possible queer status like its a total spoiler and completely unreasonable to just say 'yeah they are bi/gay/trans it just hasn't become relevant yet' and be done with it.

When the rep finally does come it is either at a cost to the integrity of the plot/character development of the character(s) in question and/or they do a queerphobic trope (or multiple) like bury your gays or 'creepy pervert gay villain' whether or not its on the teased character.

With bonus points if:

The rep is blink and youll miss it in a way that it can be cut out of the media easily for marketing purposes

Its a company that isn't beholden to getting through to publishing (ie- indie company)

They act like they did the queer community a great service for giving lackluster rep after several years of taunting for views.

If you felt genuinely surprised that a media actually genuinely followed through on the tease and made a character gay/trans then it probably counts. It definitely counts if the bonus points get hit.

Its for stuff that FEELS like queerbaiting because they were being unnecessarily coy about it and then the followthrough was lackluster at best.

Examples include the aforementioned VLD and Supernatural.

The problem is I feel like people on tumblr would misuse it even harder than they do queerbaiting for shit like LoK that was genuinely trying to get around censors because its so contextual.

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I've said it before and I will say it again:

SPN, despite how it feels on Tumblr, had literally millions of viewers who didn't see it how we saw it.

I do very, very occasionally run into cases where I genuinely feel like what you've outlined. Far more often, I run into cases where that perception makes a lot of sense if you're hanging out on tumblr but much less sense if you look at the sum total of the audience and all of the various opinions and comments of the many people involved in making the canon.