#just. isn't queerbaiting. it can't be. by definition.

[lucystark12]

milevens are insane

warning now - i get extremely heated in this so if you're going to tell me to calm down leave. before any of you weird bitches tell me to go do something more productive or to touch grass- no. i'm fifteen, it's summer, and i'm a highly involved high school student. i'm not here because i have nothing better to do, i'm here because i understand good writing and am able to have hobbies ❤️

anyways

was on the mileven endgame hashtag just now and because i don't choose violence i wont be addressing any of them directly, but i will be addressing some of the ridiculous bullshit on there. term bullshit used intentionally

the love confession came as a result of mike "gaining the confidence" to tell el how much he loves her because he was afraid that he loved her more than she loved him.

are you listening to the words that are coming out of your mouth right now? i want to sit down and get a coffee with you and dissect what the fuck you meant by that. sure, right, yeah, he gained so much PRODUCTIVE confidence from his conversation he had with will where will was using eleven to mask his own feelings for mike. it makes so much sense narratively that this end all be all mileven event is sparked from will's feelings and not mikes! sure! right! this is such an idiotic piece of reasoning. you are literally saying that you are okay with your endgame ship only being endgame based on faulty communication and lies. are you joking? "you just gotta improve your motivation" ass piece of evidence

also, mike being insecure about loving her more than she loves him is complete, total, utter bullshit. el frequently expresses her love to mike via letters and youre here to say that mike would have any problem with doing the same thing if he were insecure about her love for him? that literally makes no sense. i wouldn't be afraid of loving somebody more than they love me if they are actively putting more effort into insuring me that they love me than i am to them. like, what does that even mean?

“Will Byers is a pathetic loser annoying character and contributed little to the plot of ST. "

yes that is a direct quote. no i'm not kidding.

what kind of fucking neanderthal watches stranger fucking things- a show about a kid who disappears- and thinks the kid who disappears isn't a central part of the narrative? the first episode of the goddamn show is called "the vanishing of will byers"! maybe this is hard for you and your confused brain to get your head around, but el and mike met when mike was out looking FOR WILL. mike and el are still together because mike gained courage from WILL'S LOVE FOR HIM. what a fucking idiot you must be. i would try to explain to you the myriad of other reasons why will is absolutely central to the plot of the show, but since the show itself has clearly gone in one ear and out the other, i probably wont be able to get through to you either.

“what if we learned to cope with world that doesn’t accept us as individuals by embracing each other completely?” said about mileven

um.. what. that's literally byler. closeted gay guys in the 80s. but sure, the ones that aren't being accepted are the two white and allegedly heterosexual individuals. the "world that doesn't accept us" in question is a few high school bullies in comparison with the stigmatization, violence, and ostracization that has longstanding been a part of what it means to be queer. be so serious right now. mileven is not important for being non conformist, the GAY SHIP IN THE 80S IS!!

“The only people who queerbaited, was byler fans themselves lmao.”

even if we're ignoring the horrible grammar there are still SO many things wrong with everything that was just said. what they're saying above for anybody who can't decipher the weird medieval english code this person is using is that bylers actively queerbaited themselves which inherently makes no sense at all.

below i have included the oxford dictionary definition of queerbaiting: "the incorporation of apparently gay characters or same-sex relationships into a film, television show, etc. as a means of appealing to gay and bisexual audiences while maintaining ambiguity about the characters' sexuality."

how is it possible that byler shippers themselves are the ones doing the queerbaiting? are we running the show? nope! before you come on and post something as offensive as this- which i will get into- at least make sure you know what you're saying. xoxo

to insinuate for even a second that mike wheeler not being gay would be anything other than deliberate queerbaiting is insane. there is something wrong with you. aside from the parts of the show where his queerness is deliberately alluded to like music, costuming, analogies, allegories, and set design, netflix has been, weather you like it or not, actively marketing in favor of byler and mike not being straight. all below come from official netflix accounts-

how is this not queerbaiting? genuinely what are you on about. this is literally textbook.

“will is fruity but mike didn't like the fruit on his pizza”

you seriously are basing your argument about mike not being gay on him not liking fruit on pizza? you seriously think that some of the most commended and celebrated writers of the last decade would use symbolism involving a word that can literally be interpreted as a slur when their show has two characters who are canonically a part of the group affected said slur? are you fucking stupid? that was harmless banter used to communicate the differences in habitual action across the country. it wasn't the duffers trying to do for you what they do for us in deliberate, straightforward NON-OFFENSIVE symbolism.

i saw somebody claim that mike's character arc in season four was inherently about not believing in his self worth nor in his competency to be in a relationship with el

while i do for the most part agree with you, i'm going to ask you a question- mike was never anxious about his identity and self worth involving el before season four. why do you think that just came up now if not for the fact that he's been having insecurities involving his sexuality and romantic attraction to women as a whole? in my opinion, mike realized that he might not like girls in that way circa the end of season three- a realization that only festered and grew through the absence of not only the boy he loves that is causing this insecurity but the girl whom he is using as a way to say hey, i can't be gay, i have a girlfriend! mike was clearly going through some serious emotional struggles as we can immediately see in this scene with how suddenly awkward he is with will and the immediate emphasis that's put on the "from mike" on the flowers.

i agree that his season four and part of his season five arc are about his feelings of insecurity about being in a relationship with el, however, i don't think he's insecure because he thinks she's better than him in the sense that she's some superhero, i think he thinks she's better than him because he knows that he'll never be able to love her the way she deserves to be loved. he's not going to outright come and say to will that he doesn't think that he can love her in the way she deserves to be loved. he's closeted. what he says in the van scene is the only way he knows to express his feelings. it's very similar to what will does in the same scene. it makes no sense for this insecurity to randomly manifest in him if it wasn't for an external factor that doesn't involve el, because nothing has really changed with the dynamic of their relationship other than the move. one could argue that mike is feeling insecure over el's supposed popularity she claims to have in her letters, but mike's arc has never been about caring about popularity in school. that's not something on his mind so much as the grand scheme of the world is. lets not forget that he joins hellfire in season four.

“When Mike didn’t say “I love you”, By*ers twisted it to their narrative. When Mike did say “I love you”, By*ers twisted it to their narrative.”

you literally sound like trump going on about the democrats. listen to what your saying right now. also, it's a ship name. there's no need to censor it you fucking weirdo.

wasted time building up mileven

i'm sorry, what build up? i'm confused. there's no "build up". THIS is build up:

above is will, possessed by a monster who feeds off of those lacking love in their lives, only being able to be broken out of possession by a heartfelt monologue by the PERSON HE LOVES detailing how the best decision he ever made was to befriend him.

above is will claiming he will never fall in love, then his love for one of the other main characters becomes a central plot point of the two seasons to come. joyce and i see through will and all of you weird milevens

mike telling will how it's not his fault will doesn't like girls only after he loses the person he's been using to cover up his own insecurity about the same thing- not liking girls. suspicious.

will's LOVE FOR MIKE being the thing to give him the confidence to help el SAVE THE WORLD, only episodes after we establish that mike is bound to be pissed that he was lied to. and theres no buildup? THERE'S REALLY NO BUILDUP?

if you don't see buildup i fear you are literally just a lost cause because it is so painfully obvious to anybody who made it past seventh grade english class that there is something deeper and more intimate than friendship going on between will byers and mike wheeler.

“Women can be independent while being in a relationship guys😭!!”

OBVIOUSLY! i am literally the biggest feminist on the entire western seaboard. i couldn't agree more with this, which is why we have arcs like nancy's where she actively becomes more independent while still maintaining a relationship with jonathan. the difference is that mike and el have been together since they were like thirteen. when el was immersed into the real world for the first time in season two she immediately leaned on mike for support in that. it's not that she can only be independent on her own, it's that mike is directly symbolic to her of a time when she was stumbling around the world with naivete and not quite knowing how to navigate that. by spreading her wings away from that relationship, it will not only give her independence, but also a way to see beyond the barriers of hawkins and a life where she was valued mostly for the qualities she brings to the supernatural equation. el's arc is one of my favorites. i would never claim such a thing and discredit the essence of what makes the emotions behind her character so interesting. she's somebody who was literally raised in a lab. she shouldn't be held back by somebody she is quite literally dependent on.

last but not least, i saw a post that said milevens always win.

"are you sure about that?" i ask, noah schnapp's most recent instagram post open on my phone, finn wolfhard's spotify playlist in my headphones, my mike holding will's painting funko on the desk in front of me, wearing a yellow shirt with a blue sweater over it.

thank u for listening to my ted talk 💙💛

[genericpuff]

Was the Hera×Echo thing for real?! Was it like planned??? It doesn't feel like it was planned! It feels like Rachel just wanted to queerbait to gather more new readers wtf

yeah it's exactly that tbh

FASTPASS SPOILERS AHEAD !!!

like what more realistically happened is she saw people headcanon'ing Echo and Hera and went "yeah sure I'll do that!" without actually writing the fucking relationship.

This was even a problem back in S2 with Echo's character as a whole, she's introduced as this mysterious 'double agent' character who's almost definitely working for Zeus-

-but then aside from two scenes involving Echo accompanying Hera to the motel to retrieve Persephone's things and Echo warning Daphne that Apollo clearly isn't 'over Persephone' (because he had, y'know, barged into Hera's office demanding Hera's blessing) the whole "Echo is a double agent for Zeus" thing was only confirmed after Daphne was turned into a tree and Echo said "FUCK YOU ZEUS, I'M NOT GONNA DO YOUR DIRTY WORK ANYMORE!" which ... huh? Where's the plot? It feels like there was an entire story there that just got dumped entirely so that Hades and Persephone could play golf with diamonds.

Like this was presumably where Echo ditched her obligation to Zeus, but it had nothing to do with Hera, it was because she heard (I'm assuming from Thanatos) what happened to Daphne.

After that we only ever see Echo again when it's implied that her and Hera had some kind of falling out. No idea what over, maybe it was Hera finding out that Echo was a double agent, maybe Hera called her a slur, we have no clue what. But it's sorta just tacked on during an ongoing monologue about how Kronos has affected her.

The only other 'hint' we got towards it was Ares calling Echo Hera's 'girlfriend' but that doesn't mean a whole lot when we've literally never seen these two have more than two scenes together.

So now Rachel making them kiss feels more like her taking credit for writing a plotline that doesn't exist and was fabricated entirely in the audience's headcanon. And this is something Rachel does a lot, she basically relies entirely on her audience filling in the blanks for her nothingburger plot and then of course gets to take all the credit for being a "smart and inclusive writer". Where? Literally where the fuck is the actual writing?

Imagine if we had gotten a proper B-plot showcasing the relationship between Echo and Hera. Echo is working for Hera as a double agent and doesn't want to blow her cover, while Hera is suspicious because she worries her husband is up to something. Over time they work together, grow closer, Hera realizes that Echo makes her feel a kind of happiness that Zeus hasn't made her feel in a long time, Echo realizes that she can't keep lying to Hera about why she was hired and decides she values Hera's loyalty and respect over Zeus' because she has feelings for Hera now. Maybe Hera finds out about Echo being a double agent, either by overhearing a conversation between Echo and Zeus or because Echo outright tells her, and eventually it resolves with them finally admitting their feelings towards one another and Hera realizing that she's felt trapped in a loveless marriage that's essentially serving the same purpose as her union with Kronos, sacrificing her well-being for the good of a King. They kiss and Hera confronts the original perpetrator of her trauma, Kronos, ready to end the cycle of her abuse once and for all.

Like, the plot is right fucking there but Rachel keeps dumping it in favor of focusing on the boring ass heterocis nightmares that are Hades and Persephone, who get SO MUCH FUCKING SCREENTIME of just telling each other how amazing they are and how much they're in love (meanwhile we didn't even actually get to see or hear what Hera wrote in the letter to Echo, we have to just assume) but still tries to take credit for writing queer stories by just vaguely hinting at a queer relationship that has had zero development or actual screentime. It's Hestia and Athena all fucking over again.

It also doesn't bode well for LO passing the whole "bury your gays" test because Hera is literally marching to what she's expecting to be her death. So she's established as a bisexual character, just for her to be sent to her death, while Echo will undoubtedly get shoved out of the plot again.

And, I shouldn't even have to remind y'all of this, but Hera has been racist to nymphs in the past and Echo was her direct subordinate, her personal assistant.

It just makes zero sense to me why Rachel would suddenly force in a queer relationship between two characters who weren't traditionally gay in the original myths (once again removing the queer aspects of CANONICALLY LGBTQ+ GODS AND GIVING THEM TO THE STRAIGHTS INSTEAD) when Hera's story had more than enough to work with through her trauma from both Kronos and Zeus and her loyalty as the goddess of marriage that's kept her trapped in a loveless and abusive relationship. So now instead of having a subplot that could have been about the goddess of marriage realizing that no one should have to stay in a marriage that's robbing them of joy and the "sanctity of marriage" isn't worth being miserable for life, we have a subplot where the goddess of marriage who is racist to nymphs routinely cheats on her husband and now confesses her love to a nymph who we never even saw her interact with outside of two instances where it was simply a working relationship.

[bess3714]

If I were in charge of DC here's what I would do to the Batfam comics in no particular order:

Batman and Robin:

I would send Bruce and Damian on a sabbatical/road trip across America. They of course keep running into crimes wherever they go and solve them, leading a couple of FBI agents to start investigating them for committing the crimes. One FBI agent will remind people of a chihuahua, and the other of a St. Bernard. Also Damian has his permit so he can drive, and since Bruce currently doesn't have a hand in comics I'd add in a plotline where they help an alien who grows back his hand as a reward but he does it wrong and now Bruce has an extra finger.

Batman:

With Bruce and Damian gone, I'd make Tim Batman and Stephanie Robin. They fight crime and bicker like old ex's, leading to some interesting rumors about Batman. I'd make a directive that Tim isn't allowed to be drawn as a twink anymore, but has to be drawn with the rippling muscles he had in the 90's and 00's. Stephanie also gets rippling muscles. Part of the b plot for a while is Stephanie's rivalry with her next-door-neighbor who turns out to be a drug lord, but the drugs he sells are like, insulin and ADHD meds that he and his gang steals because he's a doctor who lost his job for reporting some ethics concerns and now he's mad about the medical system. Stephanie gets mad because in hindsight all the clues were there that he was literally in a gang, and she didn't notice because she thought he was just an asshole. Also they definitely make out at one point.

Detective Comics:

I love what Ram V is doing right now but I think when he's done I'd put Duke Thomas in the main story investigating systemic corruption in Gotham, shining a light (because he's the Signal) on the worst parts of the government. At some point he's accused of murder and the police are all trying to arrest him so he blows up some cop cars and Batman calls to yell at him but he hangs up on Batman. Montoya has a dartboard in her office with a picture of his face on it.

I'd add in an ongoing run of a comic that resembles the original batman comics in style and content. Then I'd have a a bunch of stories with some lesser-known characters, like the Psyba-Rats. I'd really use Tec as a playground to experiment with unusual team-ups, fresh stories, and inventive artstyles.

Birds of Prey:

I like the current lineup but there needs to be 30% more queerbaiting between Barbara and Dinah. There's an issue where Barbara and Dinah pretend to be lesbians to get this himbo to leave Dinah alone because she's trying to let him down easy because he's so damn nice she doesn't want to hurt him. (Has anyone watched Rizzoli and Isles, coincidentally?) I'd also add Helena Bertinelli to the team but she has an eyepatch for inexplicable reasons (the reason is it looks cool). The eyepatch will be dropped without any recognition a few issues later. Barbara drops both Batgirl and Oracle and gets a new identity as the Cloud. Only the Birds of Prey know it's her; everyone else thinks the Cloud may or may not be an evil AI working for Lex Luthor.

Outsiders:

I'm not reading Outsiders so I can't really comment on what I'd do for that one, but if you guys have any ideas let me know and I'll do the opposite, inciting fan fury and starting a Twitter war.

Nightwing:

I would send Dick to live in New York and also I would make him broke and homeless. I thought about making him lose his memory too, but that's already been done so instead I'd give him violent visions of murder and assault so he thinks he's losing his mind but then it turns out to be a secret policy from the new mayor of New York City to quietly round up all the homeless people by releasing gas into the streets at night to knock them out, but Dick has had too much exposure to drugs and poisons for it to work right on him, so instead he gets hallucinations!

Batgirl:

That's right, you'd get a Batgirl ongoing from me! Cassandra Cain would be the main character, and in the first arc I'd have her join a dating app, but then every date she goes on turns out to be with a criminal who she then sends to jail, and just when she's about to give up on dating, on the very last date she goes on the guy tries to force a charter pilot to help him escape by plane but Cass takes him down and the pilot is like "so that was cool. Can I get your number?" and they start dating. After that Cass accidentally joins a gang but she keeps getting gang members sent to jail and no one suspects it's her, only at some point she actually becomes the gang leader. There's then a crossover with Batman where her gang beefs with Stephanie's next-door-neighbor's gang and Cass ends up giving her gang to him peacefully.

Batwoman:

While I'm at it, I'd launch a Batwoman comic. I'd get Chuck Dixon to write it and it would be both wildly homophobic and also the gayest thing you'd ever seen, but eventually ol' Chuck and I would have some creative differences and he would depart, and instead we would have a rotating cast of guest authors. I don't really know much about Batwoman but luckily knowing about a character in order to write them isn't a requirement at DC. I think we need some ghosts so there would be an arc about Batwoman getting haunted by a bunch of angry, vengeful spirits who she thinks are trying to kill her but who are actually trying to lead to their killer. One of the ghosts is a really hot woman and they share a passionate kiss before the ghost girl disappears after Kate gets them justice. The arc would be lauded in some articles as a 'major reversal of the bury your gays trope' because at one point Kate has to dig up their bodies to look for clues, while in other news outlets it would be decried as a 'vile depiction of the desecration of queer final resting places.'

Red Hood and the Outlaws:

Jason starts a club/gym for a group of teenagers where he teaches them cool stuff like 'how to throw a punch' but also 'how to buy and cook groceries'. The gym is threatened by various forces like gangs, developers, the city government, plus the kids all have personal problems they have to deal with, like mental and physical disabilities, generational trauma, homelessness, and poverty. The teenagers call the gym "The Saloon" and themselves "The Outlaws" because Jason always has a TV playing reruns of old western shows. There's a running joke where various people think Jason looks like a dead relative.

Poison Ivy:

I'm a few issues behind but this one I would leave alone. I don't think I could improve on it. Unless I made Janet from HR and Croc an item. That could be fun.

Harley Quinn:

Another one I'm not reading so I don't know what's going on there but it could be fun to have a crossover storyline with Poison Ivy where they grow and sell shrooms to rich college students and then influence them to do stupid stuff and get them arrested. You know, fun date night activities!

Conclusion:

My time in charge of Batman comics would be one of mass outrage and general fervor. My directives would be so unpopular amongst fans that petitions would be started to have me removed and violent death threats towards me would be de rigueur online. I would depart after a few short months and my replacement would almost immediately retcon all my creative decisions away into a dark universe that would then be blown up by Lex Luthor. Ten years later, a dedicated fanbase for the comics produced under me would emerge, and they would be so loud and annoying and insistent that fans would then clamor to get me back in charge of DC once again, but unfortunately by then I will have retired to start drama on Twitter and write a memoir after a failed attempt at starting my own comics company called Big M Comics and getting sued by McDonald's

[eisforeidolon]

MISHA IS SUPERNATURAL BIGGEST MISTAKE.

CASTIEL COULD HAVE BEEN AN INTERESTING CHARACTER, IF HE HAD BEEN PLAYED BY A TALENTED AND PROFESSIONAL ACTOR. ESPECIALLY PROFESSIONAL AND SERIOUS.

WE DON'T DESERVE MISHA'S LIES AND QUEERBAITING.

BUT I THINK THAT MISHA ONLY TALENTS ARE LYING TO PEOPLE AND QUEERBAITING HIS DESTIEL FANS FOR MONEY. THIS ARE THE ONLY THINGS HE KNOWS HOW TO DO.

DESTIEL ISN'T CANON. JENSEN SAID THAT SO MANY TIMES.

HE EVEN SAID THAT WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT "THE CONFESSION 'S RESOLUTION".

HE SAID THAT THERE WAS NOTHING TO BE RESOLVED. BECAUSE EVEN IF THE "CONFESSION " WAS ROMANTIC, FOR DEAN NOTHING WOULD CHANGE.

DEAN ISN'T IN LOVE WITH CASTIEL. HE ADDRESSES CASTIEL AS DEAN 'S FRIEND AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE CLOSEST TO HIM. BUT THAT'S IT.

JENSEN NEVER ADDRESSES CASTIEL AS DEAN'S POTENTIAL LOVE INTEREST.

JENSEN (AND JARED) SAID MANY TIMES THAT SUPERNATURAL IS ABOUT SAM AND DEAN AND THEIR DEEP BOND AND UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

15X20 IS THE PROOF OF THAT LOVE. WINCEST IS MORE CANON THAN DESTIEL WILL EVER BE.

I'M TALKING ABOUT PLATONIC LOVE OF COURSE.

I SHIP WINCEST BUT UNLIKE THE HELLERS I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT IS CANON AND WHAT IS JUST A FANTASY.

15x20 SHOWS TO THE VIEWER THE ESSENCE OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SAM AND DEAN.

SPOILER FOR 15X20.

SPOILER FOR 15X20

SPOLER FOR 15X20

DEAN DIES, BUT EVEN IN HIS LAST MOMENTS HE COMMITS HIMSELF TO ONLY LOVE SAM. HE SAYS HE LOVES HIM AND THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THEM TOGETHER AGAINST THE WORLD.

" IT'ALWAYS BEEN YOU... AND ME". THAT'S WHAT DEAN SAYS.

THE PAUSE IN THAT PHRASE, THE WAY THEY EMBRACE, THE FOREHEAD TOUCH. EVERYTHING IN THE SCENE IS POINTING TO WHO IS WATCHING THAT DEAN GREATEST LOVE IS SAM.

THIS IS A CONFESSION. PLATONIC AND SO BEAUTIFUL. BETTER THAN ANY OTHER "ROMANTIC" CONFESSION THAT I EVER SEEN OR I EVER HEARD.

END SPOILER FOR 15X20.

OF COUSE DEAN IS ALSO SAM GREATEST LOVE, BUT I WANTED TO GIVE MY ATTENTION TO DEAN 'S BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS SAM VS DEAN BEHAVIOUR TOWARD CASTIEL IN THEIR LAST SCENE TOGETHER. THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO.

WE ALL KNOW THAT SUPERNATURAL WAS ALWAYS ABOUT SAM AND DEAN AND THAT A LOVE STORY CAN BE ABOUT TWO BROTHER WHO SAVED EACH OTHER AND FOUGHT MONSTERS, EVIL CREATURES, DEMONS, ANGELS, THE DEVIL AND GOD FOR STAYING WITH EACH OTHER.

OF COURSE WE CANNOT SAY SAM AND DEAN WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT JARED AND JENSEN. THEIR ACTING, THEIR CHEMISTRY INSIDE THE SHOW AND OUTSIDE TOO, THEIR KINDNESS, IS WHAT MAKES SUPERNATURAL A SHOW THAT CHANGED MY LIFE.

I ALWAYS GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT THIS SHOW. THAT'S WHY I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE LIKE MISHA WHO ALWAYS SAYS SHIT ABOUT THE SHOW AND THE ACTORS ( JARED AND JENSEN)

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY RANT, SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH, IT ISN'T MY FIRST LANGUAGE, AND I HOPE THAT I DIDN'T ANNOY YOU OR BOTHERED YOU.

MAY LOVE AND KINDNESS ALWAYS FIND YOU.

I have to agree. Also, your English is fine and I definitely understand the need to rant about all this nonsense sometimes, that's why I've got this blog! <3

I do actually feel like Misha was a perfectly serviceable actor way back at the beginning. I even get why they decided to keep him around when he proved popular with the fandom. It was indeed proven a mistake in so, so many ways as time went on, though.

Yeah, first and most egregious is the kind of person Misha turned out to be - or at least turned into after so many years of fans blowing smoke up his ass. A bitter, entitled, ungrateful, lazy backstabber who is perfectly comfortable telling blatantly obvious and contradictory self-serving lies and nonsense. Whether that's about the ship or his relative importance to the show directly, whether that's skeevy sexual comments about Jensen/Dean, whether that's trying to paint Jared as some kind of evil bully that abused him. He keeps proving again and again there is no bar he won't limbo under.

Next is I think his performance on the show and what his continued presence on the show resulted in plot-wise from the writers. He was fine at first when he was just playing a non-human mysterious figure that only appeared now and then and had a major role in the whole structure of the apocalypse. He even had a pretty good arc leading up to the Leviathans. The problem was they kept him around as a "fan favorite" after that when they really didn't have anything for him to do but eat up screen time to give J2 time off. Would we have really gotten so much bad, circular angel politics if there wasn't a need to give Castiel something to do to keep Misha employed? I personally doubt it. Even worse than that, though? As time went on, Misha seemed to recognize that his only relevance was baiting shippers and wasting time and leaned into turning Castiel into the type of character he gets written as in so much bad D/C fanfic - a pathetic mostly human woobie who is completely useless for anything but the projection of bizarre teen romance fantasies that don't make any damn sense. Which culminated in that bizarre ambiguous queerbait he and Bobo the Clown cooked up for Castiel's exit. Which doesn't even touch his later seasons' presumable attempts at acting where his choices for Lucifer!Castiel & AU!Castiel & Empty!Castiel were all ... entirely made up of bad accents and gurning. It wasn't about any of those character's motivations or places in the narrative, it was about the laziest possible attempt to differentiate them from his normal character. Even in latter season's SPN, which IMNSHO had so, so many issues dragging things down, Misha's lack of interest in anything but the size of his paychecks and con earnings played into some of the worst.

Which brings us to D/C and the whole supposedly canon thing. Canon is literally what happened. D/C didn't happen, it's that simple. Castiel rambled some ambiguous bullshit about love and got sucked into the Empty while Dean looked bewildered and sad at him from several feet away. Misha can make up as many stories about what the character was totally thinking and how he was totally coming back in the finale and queerbaiting about what will totes happen in a revival, but not a word of it actually makes what Castiel said "I'm IN love with you". Nor does it magically manifest a reciprocation from Dean. What doesn't happen on screen but actors or TPTB say about the canon is often called Word of God. Which yes, Misha's does not outweigh everything Jensen and Jared and various showrunners have clearly said. Jensen might have gotten less confrontational about shooting it down over the years, but the underlying message hasn't changed. Meanwhile, not only do the details of Misha's stories constantly change, but the general message of his claims has flip flopped so many times. The show was about the brothers, no actually the brothers and the angel! He joked about wincest, no actually he'd never heard of it! He didn't want to say what that scene meant, no actually feel free to attack anyone who says it wasn't a homosexual declaration of love! There's more, but Misha's not worth the effort of looking them up.

As you say, at the end of the day, anyone watching the totality of the show and seeing how it ended? It's very obvious the center of the story was a platonic love story. A complicated one, granted, but Sam and Dean so many times made it very clear that it was them ... and everyone else. Except in the same way that acknowledging that doesn't serve the hellers agenda in demanding a continuation must center their ship so they can finally have visuals to go with their fanfic, acknowledging that doesn't serve Misha's agenda of fleecing them out of money for telling them it will happen for as long as he can get away with it.

[nokay08]

FULL OPINION ABOUT MOOMINVALLEY 4 SPOILERS FOR MOOMINVALLEY SEASON 4 ⚠️⚠️⚠️

THE CHARACTERS:

There were some new characters introduced (like Joxter and Aunt Jane) that I thought were really great, along with others we've seen shine this season (Snork and the Groke), which I’ve been very pleased about. I know some people have complained about Sniff, but I thought he was rather cute, even if a bit annoying.

I particularly loved seeing Moomintroll more mature compared to his season 1 arc, where he would cry to his mamma (lol) and instead actually take charge of "operations." Moominmamma was great as always, and Moominpappa was really funny this season. Snorkmaiden also seemed more mature than at the beginning.

Some characters were definitely more discreet (COUGHCOUGH Snufkin COUGH), but overall, each had their moments.

NEGATIVE POINTS:

As I mentioned, some characters were left out, like Snufkin. I think it's odd that he didn’t get any episodes focused on him, especially since (correct me if I’m wrong) it seems like most characters had their own episode in this final season. It feels like he was barely present, even at times when he could have easily been included (like the Midsummer bonfire).

Another point, which ties into my last, is the weird getting back together of Moomintroll and Snorkmaiden. While I love the pair, we’d already established in previous seasons that this couple was not working out. For example, in the episode where they have their own house, or in the last episode of season 3, where Moomintroll is said not to be Snorkmaiden's soulmate. I love seeing them together as platonic friends, but not as a couple—it feels weird and rushed that they’re back together in a single episode.

And this leads to the final, and maybe most problematic, issue: the Moomintroll and Snufkin dynamic. In previous seasons, their relationship seemed to be gradually leaning toward something more romantic, especially in season 3 with the "Lonely Mountains" arc. Even as someone skeptical of ships, I thought the show was hinting at a romantic pairing. So, for season 4, I had expectations, but we ended up getting less than nothing. While there were some sweet moments, the lack of Snufkin this season makes me feel like they were avoiding any development of that buildup.

I'm genuinely disappointed. Not because Moomin and Snorkmaiden got together—good for them, I guess! ✋😭✋ But it just feels like they completely disregarded the whole Snufmin relationship here. It really sucks that the representation ended up feeling fake, especially from a show with an openly queer creator.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time (looking at you, BBC Sherlock 🫵😡), but it really can't keep happening. I wouldn’t have minded if Snufkin and Moomin weren't hinted at by the show itself, only to give false hope and, I guess, use those hopes for economic reasons.

CONCLUSION:

Okay ! It seems like there’s ton of negative points there but I swear I love that show 😭 It’s just that I feel like queerbaiting is not talked about enough and I hate that it keeps happening even in 2024!

but anyways, the show was great, and kudos to the animation crew for that great looking show 🙌💙

[qilingxiong]

having actually gone and watched A Balloon's Landing (2024), i think its most widely criticized point of being queerbait isn't entirely warranted (although not NOT understandable). while the first half of the movie definitely seems like it's building up to that in a lot of scenes, once you're through, it makes more sense why the leads' dynamic didn't turn into a more explicit, fully gay romance. one character really isn't in the headspace for that throughout the film, and due to a certain plot point with the other, there just doesn't end up being room for that kind of relationship. i do think there are some interactions between the characters they could've committed to regardless, but it's alright enough as is.

if you approach the film as a pre-slash story, it works quite well, and the ending very much leaves room for a properly romantic relationship to unfold afterward. i don't think whether or not the main relationship is queer is a question. to me it absolutely reads as such, terrance lau and fandy fan knew what they were doing with their performances and their chemistry is fantastic (even on very low rated reviews, i saw people leave stars for their acting). on that front, i have few notes.

but where the movie made a mistake, and where i think the queerbaiting accusations all come from, is that the film wasn't marketed as a pre-slash story. based on the trailer, posters, and promo stills, audiences were encouraged to believe the movie would focus on an explicitly gay BL relationship and its development. the fact that fandy fan is a known BL actor probably helped this. for audiences who went into the film expecting that kind of story, and then didn't get it, i understand why they would feel betrayed. there's a lot of good moments, but the leads don't kiss, and even though some scenes in the first part of the movie feel very much like a BL premise it all abandons that eventually.

and hey, it's not like fans can't make feasts out of a solid bromance dynamic. we know this. it's just that people were expecting more than bromance (especially from a taiwanese film), as opposed to just having those kinds of moments between characters be a treat, like we might in a mainland drama, and that's what was irritating.

A Balloon's Landing: queerbaiting it is not, but misleading it still is.

[love-byers]

Hi!! I binge-read some of your byler analysis, along with other users', and I can't help but STILL feel on the fence about hoping for byler endgame. I guess I just don't want to get my hopes super high only for them to be crushed by whatever CGI fest the düff3rs got in store to "go out with a bang" (while, obvs, sticking to the status quo and what they think the GA wants to see). I've seen so many intelligent people write media criticism pieces and analysis in support of the ship, but I still dread that the writers cry plausible deniability on all the clues they DID lay, that the people behind the N*f1ix social media accs confess that they've willingly posted queerbait to boost their engagement and thus get a bigger paycheck (I wouldn't blame them if they did, obvs; besides, it still means that some higher-up approved those misleading posts) and, worst of all, that this whole thing may end up blowing up negatively like the JohnLock conspiracy or the Voltron shenanigans or, y'know, the Supernatural fandom after Castiel's introduction and up until that lame ass final season. In your opinion, what makes byler different? Is there real hope for a satisfying mlm relationship from a show made by het men that capitalizes on 80s nerd culture nostalgia?

Sorry for coming off so jaded: I do wish for a byler ending, but it's been hard to keep my hopes aflame against these worries :c

i think everyone has some amount of doubt, which is totally understandable.

lgbt representation has come a long way, but a lot of us fans who are a bit older grew up consuming media that either had no representation or shitty representation. we sought ourselves in the media we loved and never found it, and corporations exploited that. nowadays there's way more representation that isn't left up to interpretation or censored, but a lot of the time that's in shows that are about romance and drama, high school a lot of the time. which is great, but stranger things is a sci fi show with romantic sub plots. it's easy for queer characters to end up being left out of a show like ST, but they haven't been at all.

one of the big messages of ST is embracing weirdness and being different. loving whatever it is you love, unashamed. when a character strays from being their true self or pushes away the things they love, there are consequences for the character. they become less likable to the audience. the entire theme of s4 is living in the truth, not hiding things, embracing love, being misunderstood simply because you're different. all of that is very queer coded. and it happens to be the season where will's love for mike fully comes into light.

there has been so much thought put into stranger things. the duffers have said there are no coincidences. they put thought into everything, thats why it takes so long to make a season, because they care so much. there are endless details i could point out not related to romance. they've also said they've been set on the ending for a while and will not be changing it to please people. i believe they said some people might not like the ending, but they don't care because they're making the story THEY want. which so far has uplifted queer people and promoted being different. so some antis may call be stupid for trusting them, but im choosing to. i believe they'll do these characters justice.

and my favorite quote from them is "The best plot twists don't make the audience say "wow I never saw that coming!", it makes you say "I should have seen that coming."

as a writer and a creative writing major, i definitely look up to the writers of ST. they are all incredibly talented and i hope one day i can put this much thought and love into a project. and, as a writer, i cannot see them throwing mike and will's relationship down the drain.

so, what makes byler different? there's very few shows where this much thought is put into everything. its not debatable that they do that, they've said it and its evident if you watch the show. so i refuse to believe all of these things between mike and will are just coincidences or accidents. there's just no possible way. i definitely had a klance phase and i can confidently say voltron writing is nowhere near the level of ST, and neither is supernatural. supernatural is one of those shows that has a lot of seasons and has gone all over the place in terms of writing and plot. the duffers have known the ending to this story since season 1. and unlike those shows with lots of seasons, ST only has 5. it won't be dragged on and beaten like a dead horse like some shows.

you don't have to completely eliminate your doubt. even i have doubt even after all i've said and posted. there is simply no way to confirm what'll happen before s5 releases, and they want it that way. just hold on until s5 friend

[lemotmo]

Not to balance out the ask or anything, but there's something I picked up on during the season. For the record I'm a buddie shipper but I'm not blind to the fandom's fault.

There's a leaker in twitter who posted vague stuffs during the season that turned out to be true; implying that Buck will kiss a man who isn't Eddie, Marisol being a former nun, karaoke scene being cut et cetera. I can't remember exactly when but it's most likely during the heights of Buddies being mad that the karaoke scene was cut (I don't think it's queerbaiting since the show already went past that since season 1 but I understand people being upset) the leaker posted something about "Guys please be nice" or something to tone down the backlash, despite he himself encouraging the fandom to be louder for the karaoke scene, go figure and then shortly after Tim made that post about the karaoke scene on his FB. I then assumed that he got wind of Tim getting fed up with people asking for the karaoke scene despite he himself volunteering to post that disregarding the song license stuff.

While I've seen how crazy some of the Bummys have been lately, I'm not ruling out the possibility that Tim's also getting fed up with us Buddies especially since he's been exposed longer to Buddies than Bucktommys; it's just he perceived the toxicity to be twofolds since it comes from two queer ships. The fact that Buddies on twitter, his primary social media source of gauging fandom reaction before he decided to call it quits, has new people who uses similar modus operandi as some Tevans operate to farm engagement and content, makes the possibility of the toxicity among Buddie fandoms raising there to be higher.

I guess my takeaway is just for us to quietly ship harder on Buddie without engaging in the same kind of toxicity Kinleys are doing. Just focus on the good things on Buddie (and Bucktommy if you multiship), don't drag down actors/actresses or love interests they play to the same extent *they* did (in general, if you think your ship is THAT good finding every small detail to discredit other love interests is not needed because your own foundation should be enough) as your anon said, Tim can feel hurt from criticism so as long as the grievances were expressed in a more civil manner it should be good for us.

Yes Nonny. I agree.

The karaoke scene debacle is certainly a really good example of where the Buddie fandom went too far. I get the disappointment. I was disappointed too, but I ranted about it to the mutuals, took a deep breath and moved on.

I know that some people on Twitter (and even here on Tumblr) most definitely overreacted to that scene being cut. I don't know if I remember it right, but a few of the most crazy Buddie stans even sent him nasty messages. The fact that Tim had to publicly react wasn't very flattering for our fandom.

To me it's the way he reacted that stands out here. From his tone (which is always hard to gauge in a written message) he seemed calm but annoyed with the fans who kept on asking for that scene. He even admitted to liking Buddie and wanting to give this to the fans.

After that, most Buddie fans got the message and stopped demanding to release the scene, with the few exceptions of course. 🤷‍♀️ Whenever the karaoke scene comes up these days, it's mostly people asking nicely.

This last Tim interview felt very different. It was a direct call out to the BT people who had bullied and threatened some of the 911 cast and crew, to the point that some of them had to be blocked. These people kept on running to Tim's Facebook DMs to then post them on Twitter to 'bludgeon another part of fandom'. That's a direct call out, which is on a whole other level than the karaoke debacle.

But ultimately I completely agree with your conclusion. It is very important to keep the positivity and civility while shipping Buddie (and BT if you multi-ship). In that regard Tumblr is very different from Twitter. Although there are definitely a lot of great Buddie fans on Twitter who aren't afraid to call out toxic behaviour within our own fandom, which is a good buffer to keep out the worst of the toxicity.

Fandoms are fandoms. A certain level of toxicity will never be able to be avoided. All we can do is, like you said, quietly keep on shipping Buddie and keep it all respectful towards others.

Hope you have a great day Nonny!

[but-a-humble-goon]

for, https://www.tumblr.com/but-a-humble-goon/754670294342500352/name-a-character-from-one-of-my-fandoms-and-ill?source=share

Cassandra Cain, naturally.

If you already got Cassandra then I'll take a wild swing and go for Emerald Sustrai.

I ain't got Cassandra yet funnily enough. Cassandra Cain Three personal headcanon facts about them -Even after she learns to talk she's still trying to figure out what's going on via inference in 90% of social situations. Words are challenging and not the kind of challenging she likes. -Cass hates stakeouts more than anything in the world. She is a creature of pure motion, she must be free. It takes all of her considerable will and discipline to sit still for longer than an hour or so and it feels like actual torture. -She gets sincerely very emotional listening to Evanescence. She's got no idea about their pop culture context, she just feels very seen by their music. Like she senses a spiritual kinship. A reason they suck Basically everything about how she treated Stephanie in Batgirl 2000. Didn't trust her, didn't respect her, tried very hard to drive her away, completely took their friendship for granted, was generally insufferable and mean to her constantly, took Bruce's side against her and pushed her into getting herself killed. A reason they are great Cassandra Cain is genuinely the kindest soul in the entire DC universe. She is the very essence of empathy and compassion. She would take on the entire world to fight for the life of even the worst person who ever lived. I've said it before but no matter how much the universe tries to hammer the message into her that you can't save them all her response will always be "watch me." A reason I relate to them She's terrible with her emotions and even worse at social interaction and everybody around her misconstrues this as her being emotionless or just projects their own biases onto her. People talk about her like she isn't even there and even though she acts like it doesn't sting, it does. She feels like everybody around her got given a manual on how to be human properly except her. Top tier OTP I don't really ship Cass with anyone. If she's gonna end up with someone at this point it should definitely be Stephanie to give the middle finger to all of the queerbait between the two over the years. Five things that never happened to the character that I believe should have happened. -We should have actually gotten to see her seeing Steph alive again for the first time after War Games and gotten all the devastating emotional fallout of that. -they really should have done a Cass vs Jason storyline at this point, it's kinda ridiculous that they haven't. -Batgirl 2000 should have had a real ending and not just sort of fizzled out the way it did. -Bruce really does need to sort his fucking life out and admit he's basically been feeding her self-abuse, ruining her life and failing her as a father and mentor. -SHE NEEDS A GODDAMN SOLO BOOK AGAIN Five people that the character never fell in love with and why -Conner Kent, much as I think there's probably still some not entirely platonic feelings between them, I don't think anything could ever really come of it, that's why I like where they left off. -Tai'Darshan, because that whole plotline was stupid. -Rose Wilson. If you were to ask Cass she'd tell you it's because Rose is a punk ass bitch. -Zatanna. I know it's like the joke that every bat is at least a little bit in love with Z but Cass could never be with somebody cooler than she is. -Any of her brothers, no matter what people seem to think, because that's disgusting.

[mixelation]

oh yeah, i binged Buddy Daddies over the weekend! some thoughts (spoilers ahead)

If you haven't heard of it, Buddy Daddies is about two professional hitmen, Kazuki and Rei, who happen to be roommates (and they were roommates......). During one of their hits, they accidentally acquire a four year old girl named Miri and end up raising her. The set up for this is, and the escalation to them taking her in until they can find her mom to genuinely wanting to be her family, is zany but feels organic within the universe.

Now, the initial set up for this show is completely unhinged in a way that deeply entertained me. Kazuki, who is the "brains of the operation," is attempting to sneak himself and Rei (local pathetic wet man and "human weapon") into their mark's Christmas party by delivering a cake. Prior to this we see Kazuki cooking for Rei and feeling unappreciated for his efforts, with the implication that Rei never compliments his cooking, a hobby Kazuki greatly enjoys. Throughout this set up, we also see shots of a little girl walking around and asking strangers for directions.

The Christmas party is at a hotel. Kazuki pushes a cake cart into an elevator and Miri simply follows them in, a second before the doors close. She's amazed by the cake and Kazuki, who we are already having hints at having lost a previous family, and who is the more social of the two roommates, offers to let her try. Miri loves the cake, and Kazuki finally feels appreciated. Then they get off the elevator, and the entire assassination attempt goes to shit. There's a shoot out. The mark takes Miri hostage and aims a gun at her head. Shenanigans happen such that Kazuki ends up with Miri in his ams, and we don't feel bad at all when the mark is killed.

Not seeing anything else to do about her in the moment, especially since he can't go to the police, Kazuki takes Miri home with him. She doesn't know any information to help him get her home. She tells him she came to this city to find her papa, and she has a note from her mom explaining that.... her papa is actually the mark they killed, OOPS.

Oh, and Kazuki told her he's her papa as part of his rescue attempt.

The rest of the series is largely about Kazuki and Rei struggling with their personal demons and flaws, and learning to open up to each other and Miri and curb their negative qualities for both Miri's sake and their roommate's sake. Rei, for example, is a "shut in" who doesn't even try any household chores like cooking or cleaning. Kazuki has a gambling problem. They both have their own family dramas they have to face.

I've read a few complaints of queerbaiting in this show, but I don't think that's what's going on here. There's a couple jokes about Kazuki being a "mom," but they don't turn Kazuki and Rei into a "husband/wife, but they're both men!" style dynamic. They don't really tease the audience with forced semi-sexual or semi-romantic situations. It's made pretty clear by the end of the series that Kazuki and Rei love each other deeply, but they stay pretty non-romantic and non-sexual. The series just isn't concerned with this.

Miri is sort of a morality pet and doesn't really get her own character arc, but she still has her own personality. She also doesn't quite fall into "personalityless child is perfect cute prop"-- Miri gets obnoxious in fairly normal kid ways. The story is a little too afraid of letting her get hurt IMHO-- like, I get it's a zany fun comfort series, and certainly I don't want to see her in real peril and I definitely don't want her to be traumatized-- but she never has to overcome or deal with her own little four year old struggles. There's an episode where she has a hard time making friends, but this turns out to be because Kazuki insisted on dressing her in designer clothes, and the other kids don't want her to get them dirty. The problem is solved immediately by simply dressing her in cheaper clothes. Or, there's another episode where she "gets into a fight," but then it turns out it was an accident, and the other "mean" kid is won over simply by Miri liking the same video game as him.

I do appreciate that Miri witnesses two shoot-outs and also occasionally wakes up in strange new places and is not phased by any of these events. This series is a comedy, after all-- it's meant to be fun, and leaving the cute kid untraumatized is an important part of the tone staying fun. I'm not criticizing this choice with her. But I think she'd have been a stronger character and the family dynamic would have been deeper if, for example, she'd actually hit someone and her hitman co-dads had to deal with that.

My other big complaint is that the hitmen stuff is largely dropped after the first few episodes, but then comes up again in the climax, when Rei's mafia boss dad decides Miri and her mom need to die. Miri comes away unharmed in the resulting conflict, but her mom is killed. Kazuki then lies to Miri about where her mom is (although the last scene is post time-skip and it's implied Miri knows her mom is gone). Not showing Miri processing this loss at all takes away from her character. Also, the finale is that Kazuki and Rei quit being hitmen so they can raise Miri together.

My issue with this ending is one part I signed on for hitmen shenanigans, and one part that I think by leaning away from this premise, the ending feels..... kind of weird? Like it's heart warming that the papas want to change and be better for Miri, but also they are responsible for both her parents' deaths. How am I supposed to feel good about that? If they'd continued with the unhinged hitman premise, this stark contrast between "three unrelated people are a happy family" and "child living with her parents' killers" would have been easier to process thematically. Okay, that last characterization is a little harsh-- Miri's bio dad left her mom while she was pregnant and threatened to kill Miri, meanwhile her mom was killed by a different hitman, albeit explicitly for her involvement with Rei. But those technicalities are easy to embrace when I'm already leaning into a whacky show about morally loose hitmen, and harder to ignore when I'm supposed to take "no longer being a murderer for hire" as an important bit of character growth.

All that being said, I don't think the ending was a bad one. It was emotionally satisfying. The found family triumphed over Rei's shitty blood family. Rei and Miri finally made French toast. I was happy.

I found this show because it gets compared to Spy x Family a lot, probably largely because they aired concurrently. There are some similarities-- enough that I'd recommend Buddy Daddies to any Spy x Family fans without many qualifiers-- but Buddy Daddies is pretty firmly its own thing. While I think Anya is a better written kid character than Miri (see my paragraph about Miri not having to deal with her own conflict), I have been frustrated recently with Yor and Loid's lack of character development. Buddy Daddies largely delivers on its two "parent" characters' arcs. and yes, i realize part of this is that BD is a 12 episode complete series and SxF is an ongoing manga. Buddy Daddies is also entirely about family as a theme; Spy x Family goes into this a little, but I think it gets overshadowed by the dual-role and anti-war themes.

Overall, would recommend...... unless you hate kids. Then I think you will hate Miri's constant shrieks of joy LMAO

[ii-neg-confessions]

this is literally the Twitter of Tumblr 💀 how woke do you have to be to be mad at twelve years olds. ofc they didn't know better and it was a different time !! Imagine being queer meanwhile disrespecting someones pronouns just because you claim they're "queerbaiting".

Oh yes! the english spoon is a colonizer for having attitude towards an implied black woman.. Pay attention.. he was JEALOUS that's why he was such a prick! This blog might feed my urge to get mad but this is all rage bait. ( Though I admit, Silver isn't innocent.. BUT HE DEFINITELY ISN'T RACIST?????)

They "Villianized" Cabby. Alright. Try having everything written about you, without your consent / permission, ESPECIALLY if it's offensive! I'D BE MAD TOO. But she LEARNED from her mistakes. She got better, I don't understand why you expect there to be no drama in the show.

The creators did do a bad job with gender & other representation, I agree. But OPEN YOUR GODDAMN EYES!

imagine using "woke" as an insult

it's the fact that they just swept everything under the rug and deleted everything without even spending a SINGLE WORD to hold themselves accountable for their past that makes me and many others iffy about AE

you need to educate yourself and dig deeper into stuff. II has much higher standards (or so it claims to) so of course there's more than meets the eye. There is a correlation between silvercandle and the "colonizer x defenseless native" trope that has hurt many indigenous people and still stains indigenous rep to this day.

the cabby scene was ableist as fuck and AE ADMITTED using her memory issues as a cheap plot device. but y'all just choose to ignore it

my eyes are pretty damn open, can't say the same about yours.

[olderthannetfic]

re: voltron being queerbaiting.

I feel like there needs to be a word for can't-believe-its-not-queerbait (suppose it could even be called that) because its a big enough phenomenon in 'progressive' stuff that ive seen that its hard to talk about.

Defining it like;

It spends months, sometimes even years hinting a character ~might~ be queer in something in the extra content and information (interviews, behind the scenes, official tweets, etc) in a way that is clearly to get more viewership and drum up the fandom interest by dangling Possible rep.

Interviews with cast and crew and promotional material treat the possible queer status like its a total spoiler and completely unreasonable to just say 'yeah they are bi/gay/trans it just hasn't become relevant yet' and be done with it.

When the rep finally does come it is either at a cost to the integrity of the plot/character development of the character(s) in question and/or they do a queerphobic trope (or multiple) like bury your gays or 'creepy pervert gay villain' whether or not its on the teased character.

With bonus points if:

The rep is blink and youll miss it in a way that it can be cut out of the media easily for marketing purposes

Its a company that isn't beholden to getting through to publishing (ie- indie company)

They act like they did the queer community a great service for giving lackluster rep after several years of taunting for views.

If you felt genuinely surprised that a media actually genuinely followed through on the tease and made a character gay/trans then it probably counts. It definitely counts if the bonus points get hit.

Its for stuff that FEELS like queerbaiting because they were being unnecessarily coy about it and then the followthrough was lackluster at best.

Examples include the aforementioned VLD and Supernatural.

The problem is I feel like people on tumblr would misuse it even harder than they do queerbaiting for shit like LoK that was genuinely trying to get around censors because its so contextual.

--

I've said it before and I will say it again:

SPN, despite how it feels on Tumblr, had literally millions of viewers who didn't see it how we saw it.

I do very, very occasionally run into cases where I genuinely feel like what you've outlined. Far more often, I run into cases where that perception makes a lot of sense if you're hanging out on tumblr but much less sense if you look at the sum total of the audience and all of the various opinions and comments of the many people involved in making the canon.

[neonscandal]

Thanks for your posts and metas, @neonscandal .... Before I found your blog, actually I ship tododeku and kiribaku. But thanks to you, I became bakudeku shipper (until now). Your metas are amazing and always based on canon. Sorry, I'm not good with words, but I hope you know how great your blog is (you are definitely one of my favorite tumblr blog). 💐🌷

And WOW these last 10 - 15 chapter, really are the best. Even my mutuals who are anti-bkdk can't deny Bakugou and Midoriya's bond anymore. Also, love Uraraka and Toga's bond....

Do you think it's possible that at the end of BNHA, Bakugou and Midoriya have ambygous relationship (kinda like Tiger and Bunny)....? I know it could be hard to be canon in shounen series.....

P.s Do you think SatoSugu (from JJK) is queerbaiting?

⚠️ Vague spoiler warnings through chapter MHA 410 at best. Covers JJK S2 with a vague mention of a character who pops up later in the manga.

It's funny you say that because I also love a good tododeku or kiribaku situation. Like yea, people have their OTP but... realistically? Characters should be just as messy as people in real life. ✨ They're going to date around before things fit together with that OTP, right? At least that's how I look at it. So I love exploring offshoots.

You are far too kind in these rough times but I appreciate you saying that (and reaching out). The swarm of asks lately have been so funny. I tend to carve out time to address them quicker than some of the other things bouncing around my head (literally, the exact opposite happens with fic updates 🥺) so I'm just happy I'm writing something. If someone else enjoys it then that's the whipped cream and caramel on my sundae.

DUDE. I hadn't read 409 or 410 yet because holiday chaos but I feel like we're beyond allegations at this point haha ALTHOUGH, I didn't see the cliffhanger from 410 coming at all so I wonder what that means for the larger story.. Got any theories?

Regarding endgame... honestly the last two chapters gave me a little anxiety. "This is our tale?" Too good to be true. Especially when we know from chapter one "this is a story of how I became a great hero". Also, I've had some thoughts since 406 about how their connection is being framed up which I haven't had time to write but it feels like a lot of fanservice for Horikoshi (and subsequent editors, etc) to not commit. Additionally, in all the ways this story subverts the typical formula for shonen, it would also feel like a fumbled opportunity to turn everything on its nose with such a wildly popular series. So I'm holding out hope but conservatively preparing for one of them to just... not make it even if we get a confession *shudders in Supernatural flashbacks*.

I hope this makes sense as I struggled to recommend stories where this wasn't the case when asked about BL. In my opinion, good representation in mainstream stories (gender identity, orientation, race, religion, disability, etc.) is when, whatever makes a character different isn't their whole identity. Specifically in the context of more traditional stories (not centered on BL for instance), they should be involved if not just as integral to the plot as any other character wherein their diversity isn't sticking out like a sore thumb. But even that characterization requires nuance which is what makes it so hard to articulate? Maybe it's simpler to say that their character arc shouldn't just be based around identity. As a short answer to your question, I don't think that SatoSugu is queerbaiting. I think they are authentically and intrinsically coded to one another in subtext and out loud straight from Akutami but that, sometimes, relationships don't work out or love is unrequited. They may not have had the same feelings despite their inherent complement to one another and that's okay.

As above, characters should be just as messy as real people and that's what makes what didn't happen between them all the more tragic because it's heartbreaking in how relatable it is (not the cult leading and murder though). Seems like a convenient answer from a delulu shipper unless you take into consideration how Kirara Hoshi's identity is given the same level of subtlety. They aren't defined by their identity nor are the characters jarred by some particularly grandiose reveal nor are they perturbed by the nature of their connection to Hikari. I'm by no means an expert but I think that these characters are executed well in the sense that they have a complexity that doesn't hinge on what would otherwise make them different. They aren't "othered", it's just a fact of who they are and the story continues. It's a facet of who they are without cheaply being all they are. With Gege Akutami's own pronouns not expressly confirmed, perhaps that informs the care around those with differing identities.

I haven't seen Tiger & Bunny yet but now I know what to check out next!

[lover-of-mine]

I think purposely bad. And made worst. Because Tim didn't expect between episode 4 and 5 that those shippers would create a whole new character that never existed. Or that on the side Lou would financially gain and feed them head canons. So now he's like look... Don't you see he sucks.

I actually truly believe the medal ceremony was supposed to be his last scene of the season, then come back for an Ana style break-up. If you look at it organically, there was no reason for the daddy joke scene, and we know he wasn't supposed to be there. I think it was to create an off-putting scene where if he chooses, he could do an off-screen break up and avoid queer baiting accusations.

Lou has already created too much tension. He could still do a break up within a few episodes, but I'm not sure if Tim wants to have the head aches Lou brings... Closing down his cameo is the only reason I think he could be back for a bit. But if that's the case, then he definitely had a meeting, you know.

Okay, first of all, this may sound mean and not trying to and this isn't targeted to you I just keep seeing queerbaiting allegations and you used the word, but Buck is queer, the queerbaiting ship has sailed, a queer storyline not going the way we expected is not queerbaiting. Whatever they do with Buck's love life, there is no queerbaiting just because it feels unsatisfying to us. They marketed Buck as queer and Buck is bi. Not liking the way it was done doesn't change that.

But on the Lou thing, I agree that they didn't plan on having Lou stick around for the whole season, but the relationship was better accepted than anticipated and they are capitalizing on it. Full conspiracy theory, but I think that with how Oliver refuses to talk about bt, and how Ryan changed his tune after 706, something happened behind the scenes that went against what they were told the beginning of the season, because again, a tv show is a living organism that needs to adapt to the circumstances in which is airing, bt brought audience, keep him around a bit longer. The kink scene was there to remind us of how bad Gerrard is, but we could've had that reminder happen with Chim or Hen, so yeah, he didn't have to be there, but keeping bt alive during the hiatus keeps the numbers up while giving shippers time to cool off. And considering the publicity that came with Buck being bi, if they are planning on eventually getting to buddie, they are probably anticipating a similar level of publicity to come from queer Eddie, so they spaced it out to get the most out of both arcs. Especially because queer Eddie has to mean canon buddie and that would break the internet. I don't blame Lou for trying to capitalize from the ship, it keeps him on the role longer and it is exposure, but obviously, there's controlled chaos brought on by the high of a confirmation that a character is queer and there's *gestures vaguely* whatever is going on. There is a chance T will get the Ali treatment, there's a chance he will get the Ana treatment, but there is also the chance he will get the Taylor treatment and stick around while being a bad match for Buck, we don't know the plan and we don't know if Lou created enough problems for them to want to write him off. T is being shown to us in a very specific way, but they can still turn it around if they chose to, because we don't know enough. He is in the same spot Taylor was during s4 so it will all depend on how he will be handled during s8. Sure fanon T is not the character that exists on the show and Lou's cameos probably were shut down because it was creating a level of expectation they didn't plan on delivering, but at this point it could still go in any direction, we can't say anything for sure.

[itsclydebitches]

On the topic of the Curious Cat: As an enby, I don't know how to feel about the fact that the first major characters in RWBY who were canonically enby were a) animals from a whole different world b) killed off in the same volume that introduced them.

Actually, no, I do know how I feel about that.

Little: A mouse who has, by their own admission, no purpose in life and thus swears to help the group on their quest... except they don't. No time is spent developing Little or demonstrating how they're beneficial as an ally. They're squashed to death by the villain during a pseudo-suicide scene and then magically reappear as a totally different person, which is presented as a good thing. They're left behind by the story, presumably never to be seen again.

Curious: A cat who is first presented as an annoyance that the group doesn't want to deal with, then as an outright villain who has been manipulating them this whole time. The story refuses to engage with the ways in which their situation is both relatable and sympathetic, instead having them suddenly gain the power of possession/physical transformation for a lackluster fight scene. They're torn apart by the illusion of another villain that only existed for one episode and, for obvious reasons, will likely never be seen again.

Yeah. I wonder why fans, particularly enby fans, would be unhappy with this representation...

You know, I've brought this up before but I think it's really important to keep in mind that RWBY is an ongoing series. Any representation that's introduced to the canon is, for a significant length of time, the only representation we have and that severely colors our feelings towards the show as a whole. Lately there have been some angry posts about people calling Blake/Yang queerbaiting and they're right, by definition it can't possibly be queerbaiting because they were made canon... but we thought it might be for several years. That's the criticism. The later you're introduced to RWBY and the more you have to binge watch, the less likely you are to understand the issue with these portrayals—especially with a fandom that will talk up what you have to look forward to if you just keep watching to X Volume. Why would I be upset with a stalker, villain lesbian when Saphron and Terra are so cute and just around the corner? Why would I think trans rep is an issue when Mae is arriving in Volume 7? How can anyone possibly claim that the queer rep is bad when the flagship, main character couple kissed on screen and I've already seen the beautiful, romantic GIFs of the moment? Putting aside other issues here (how long queer characters last, the lack of rep for men, etc.) fans ignore the staggeringly long time we were not only waiting for rep, but then waiting for what many would consider positive rep. For years all we had was a lesbian who wanted to kill the parents of the woman who didn't return her affections (notably with the implication that Blake was might be straight...) and a super duper minor character who isn't actually gay because they wanted to kill him off. For years all we had was Coco leering at women behind her sunglasses in the novels, or the hint of gay side-characters in other teams, while Blake and Yang continued a multi-Volume will-they-won't-they dance. For years we've had queer character appear for a few episodes only—the cute couple, the trans activist—before disappearing from the story because they're not important enough to make a core part of the tale. The fact that we have Blake/Yang now doesn't erase those feelings leading up to their canonization.

Now here we are again. "How can you be unhappy with the nonbinary rep?" someone might ask in a few years time, if RWBY continues and we've gotten another cute, minor, short-lived character who uses they/them pronouns. Well, it's because in 2023 everyone was waiting to see if the show would even return and in that uncertainty all we had for rep were two literal animals who were horrifically killed by the story and then left behind, one a full-fledged villain whose death we're meant to celebrate. I'm all for a diversity of representation—I'm by no means saying all your queer characters have to be heroes, or even decent people. I love me a queer villain—but when that's all you've currently got in a show that's struggled both with its rep on screen and its treatment of queer employees... it doesn't feel great.

[suffersinfandom]

A Summary of The OFMD Meta (Part IV)

This is part four of an incomplete summary of A Meta-Discussion Of The Subtext by meratrishoslee (Mera) on AO3 (linked to, as the author requests). I’m trying to stay impartial and present the content fairly and with context. Like, I started reading this 140K beast after I saw a wild screencap and thought, "Surely there's context that makes this make sense," so I do want to provide at least that much.

This part includes interviews and a response to one of the “concern trolls that couldn't quite manage to wipe the foamy froth from their mouths long enough to keep it from dripping on their keyboards.”

No more chapter numbers because they keep being reordered.

Other posts Part I Part II Part III

Chapter The Vanity Fair Article - A Wondrous Fuckery

Here’s the article that chapter is about.

Mera suspects that the interview happened via text, giving David Jenkins time to sort out what he was going to say. They note that they’re “going on vibes and subtext, which is really more [their] wheelhouse.” You’re welcome to disagree with them.

“First off, I was trained in the House of Moftiss/BBC Sherlock fandom, where we just assumed that every word the showrunners spoke in an interview or on social media was a shameless distortion at best, and an outright lie at worst -- so that's where my mind goes first. [...] Having said that... so much of the Vanity Fair interview is an actual gift.  You do have to cherrypick somewhat... but again, DJenks just released an episode with a major character death.  He can't go back and reverse himself and suggest on any textual level that the death was less than permanent.”

VF mentions the happy endings in the finale, and Jenkins says, same-sex relationships end on a dour, downbeat note, where one of them dies and it’s unrequited or it’s unrealized; something horrible happens and they’re punished in a way.

“That's not a happy ending -- and that's exactly what you apparently fucking did with a central character.  Gosh, how weird of you to bring it up here.  So why?  Is it... is it something you left open for a third season?  That the horrible death of an unrequited love isn't what it appears?”

Jenkins says that Izzy is kind of a mentor to Blackbeard and that he is kind of a father figure. Mera says that “this is the closest he gets to queerbaiting us” because Izzy is definitely not Ed’s father figure.

“Notice we are still given the subtext here: mostly dead is slightly alive, and "kind of a father figure" feels like a limp gesture in the direction of explanation.  The rest of it... if you feel insulted on Con's behalf, that Izzy Hands was reduced to an old dog being put down at the vet's office here ("beautiful arc", "does a lot of things", "it's time", "full meal" -- god, a day at the dog park and a last fucking supper with cheeseburgers and pie and all the human food he never got to have otherwise she says sarcastically) -- YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO.”

Jenkins keeps mentioning “magic, love, turning, losing, changing, rebirth, resurrection, present tense about Izzy Hands, ghosts/life after death, or anything of those flavors.” He is “legitimizing repetition” in order “to prime your mind to see the subtext.  You can only look for something if you know what it looks like: he is giving you the key to the season.”

Jenkins reminds us that “he was not a straight white guy alone in that writers room, and he's telling you the story worked for everyone in that room of all queerness/genders.” 

“And then he brings our head back around and goes ‘hey, look at Izzy again. It's almost like he's the key to everything.  Hey, look at me using present tense on a character that's supposed to be dead and gone which would be past tense. God I love Con O'Neill, and I need you to hear that in every single interview I ever give EVER. His character IS a joy to write.’”

Mera mentions all of the “subtextual queer references and coding” put into Izzy. “You don't create a Queer Avatar by fucking accident. And these professionals certainly did not.”

Mera encourages their readers to read the Q&A that wraps the article “with the mindset that we will have an S3 where a queer self-sacrificing man rises from the dead in a damn near explicit Christ metaphor and our Izzy Hands is safe and whole and loved.”

“The Vanity Fair interview, as far as I'm concerned, is not some painful/cruel gloat. It is a subtextual love letter back to the fans, published just in time to be ready to soothe our hurting hearts -- if we know how to parse it.”

Chapter "Who Do Ya Trust If You Can't Trust God?"

“I'm finding myself tired at being the point of the spear. No one prepared me for how exhausting it is to be among the first to realize a massive truth.”

This chapter is about coping with fandom and contains some solid advice: “The block button is our friend. The unfollow button is our friend. The mute option is our friend. If someone's relentless negativity hurts your feelings or drags you down, mute/unfollow/block them as needed.”

But then:

“I choose to believe my daily-growing mountain of evidence that Izzy Hands is alive and that the writers intend that he be hollered home from the gravy basket. 

“Furthermore? If I can be painfully real for a minute? I am amazed at the trust the writers have given us. 

“Because we the Unseen Crew have been put into the position of Izzy's future lover -- to be to Izzy what Stede was to Ed.  We are called on for our audience participation now, to hold his hand and beg his return -- not for a minute, an hour, or a day... but potentially for the next several months, over a year or more, until we get Season 3. 

“I do tend to have this fatal flaw of wanting to uphold others' trust in me, and to be loyal to those who show loyalty in return.”

Mera reminds us that her word is not canon. She isn’t affiliated with the show and is just trying to provide hope and positivity.

“Even though I often will get tired... I am determined to stay positive. When I can't say something nice, I close the window or the app and say nothing at all. You will find me on my social media being as unrelentingly kind as I know how to be.”

Next: interviews and what we can take from them. “Interviews have exactly two purposes: pocket money for the subject of said interview, and promotion for the show. I was trained to never fully trust what is said in interviews.” Engagement and getting people clicking is more important than imparting useful and truthful information, and nothing engages people like anger.

That’s how we get the early “interviews that are half touching and half enraging, with seriously tone-deaf seeming self-conflicting statements from the writers/showrunners [...]. We can trust that if the interviews are live/verbal, they'll be more irritating rather than less. The showrunners would much rather say too little or say something wrong than give away something too big or too true accidentally, and in the pressure of the moment they will fall back on phrases they've memorized as safe to use.”

Don’t trust that interviews are telling you the truth (but they might be saying something truth-adjacent).

Mera has doubts about Jenkins telling O’Neill about Izzy’s death mid-season. She doesn’t think that Jenkins is that stupid. “It's not too far a stretch to think that this "mid-season" conversation occurred in the middle of filming the first season, and all DJenks is prevaricating about is the timing thereof.” 

Jenkins realized mid season one that Con is an amazing actor, so he takes him out for dinner and says, “Next season I want to kill Izzy 3 times. The first time will be Stede's dream sequence, and the next two will be actual Passion Plays, because we're setting Izzy up to be Jesus and Westley from The Princess Bride and Han Solo from Star Wars.”

“And Con takes up the challenge of being coded as an OVERT Queer Messiah (with an additional layer of subtextual HIV/AIDS)... because of course he does. Of course he fucking does. If he can pull it off -- and if anyone can, it's him -- it's the role of a fucking lifetime. It's a role for history books and media studies for the next fifty or one hundred years. 

“Doesn't that sound a bit more likely? Doesn't that sound a bit more real?”

Mera predicts that interviews and articles will start publishing ideas about Izzy still being alive, and talking about how weird and off the end of season two was. Everyone involved with the show, after all, will “know we inspect every frame and every pixel of every BTS and teaser they release,” so they’ll feed us enough to keep us guessing at the truth.

“Here is my promise to you: if/when I'm wrong about any of this, I will edit this chapter only to admit I was wrong and when and how. I will not remove my evidence.  I am comfortable being wrong.  If I was never wrong, I would never have tried and failed and learned from my failures!”

Chapter Until You Come Full Circle

This chapter is about interviews. “We’ve had, just in the last week, two very sweet and classy interviews with Con (which I did predict, although that was about as safe as saying the sun would rise in the east this morning) – and one that seemed… less so, with Taika.”

First interview with Con.

Con says to trust David Jenkins, which immediately makes Mera think of Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths. “Now. Am I delulu, as the kids are calling it these days, suggesting that Con might intentionally be throwing some religious vibes at us?”

Con is also “earnest and intense” in his praise of OFMD’s writing. This is a good sign; that means he thinks the show is written well, and that’s further evidence that Izzy will be back.

Second interview with Con.

Con “seems to me to be very reluctant to outright lie, which is awesome for a meta writer and squares with my experience of him. Lying is easy in the moment and difficult in the future – a person has to remember what lies they’ve told in order to remain sufficiently consistent in their stories. It takes more skill to tell just enough of the truth that it's both vague in the moment but pays off later.” This makes interviews with him extra valuable.

A short analysis of one of his quotes: “Everything Izzy is in Season 2 was there in Season 1, only understated and repressed. According to the actor who played him: he didn’t change who he was. Izzy just got safe enough to let what was inside him out to where others could see it too.”

One of Con’s quotes backs up Mera’s Sacred Heart meta, namely the part about Izzy trying to serve the crew that loves him. 

Now a Taika interview.

This interview bolsters Mera’s idea of Ed as Judas. 

From the article: When Consequence asks writer/director/actor Taika Waititi if he’s feeling optimistic about a third season of Our Flag Means Death, his initial response is this: “Have you seen the end?”

“I think we can safely assume that Taika’s not asking the interviewer if he’s literally seen the last episode of Season 2. This feels to me like the blunt, sardonic, dry humor Taika’s evinced (and occasionally gotten into trouble over) during other interviews, aimed at the word ‘optimistic.’ ‘Have you seen the end? How optimistic did you think it was?’”

It’s not an optimistic ending. The interview mentions the inn’s renovations, but we don’t see anyone doing any renovating. Ed and Stede don’t even have food as the Revenge sails away. 

From the article: For Waititi, though, the Season 2 finale “feels like a natural end to their story. Just because I feel like, you know, they’ve been through so much and then wind up in that nice place at a happy ending.”

What nice place? What happy ending? 

From the article: Waititi says, though, that “I don’t want it to feel like Rambo III suddenly, you know, when you’re like, ‘Oh man, they have to leave their idyllic life again.'”

“Okay, everything else was fucky as fuck… but that feels wrong enough to be a lighthouse.” So Mera went and watched Rambo III, which is more relevant than she expected. 

Rambo’s “idyllic” life isn’t that great. “We don’t see an emotional, human connection. We see a white guy who’s on tolerance in a place he doesn’t really belong, separated by a language he doesn’t fluently speak. We see a man tormenting himself with boredom and isolation.”

“When you look at John Rambo through most of this movie, you see a pretty good correlation to Edward at the start of the last episode of OFMD S2: on tolerance in a place that’s not truly his home, trying to fit a life and do a job he’s not suited to… and he gives it up without another thought because a man he cares about is in danger.” A hint to season three?

Chapter My Ridiculous Obsession With Love

In this chapter, Mera addresses one of her “haters.” 

For anyone who forgot the thesis of this meta: “The overarching hypothesis I'm building in this meta-discussion is that Izzy's death was more serious because HIV/AIDS and queer grief is serious.  He had to go into the grave and take the full journey of the passion play to be able to leave it behind him, and to re-emerge as someone that can touch, kiss, and love again.”

--

Commenter: “None of that makes this a definitive interpretation, or one that the creative team can reasonably be held responsible for.” 

Mera: “... yes?  Okay, sure? (Dear non-haters: just picture that John Travolta confusion gif again, because if I threw it in here every time I rammed up against an example of begging the question in this comment, there'd be like 30 of them and we'd all get tired of them.)”

--

Commenter: “The crew hold back because Ed is the person Izzy dedicated his life to and has not yet fully reconciled with- they're giving him space to sort things with Ed so he can go in peace. Etc etc.”

Mera: “I see a rapid parade of images and sounds. "He's a dick, but he's our dick." Jim snarling "He was your friend" up into their captain's face, even though they know for a fact that could get them killed. The crew make the unicorn's leg for him together but they leave it at his door because they know he can't (yet) let himself accept it if anyone's watching: what an incredibly emotionally intelligent maneuver. The easy way that we see Jim and Lucius and Frenchie and Fang interact with Izzy in later eps-- all touching him or letting him lean on him, just never skin to skin. The way that we see Izzy go into Wee John's arms and stay held there for a while as he commits the incredibly vulnerable act of singing for them. The way that Izzy lays his hand on Stede's knee while they're talking at Jackie's bar, and there's no real animosity from them on either side then.

“So I'll give you this one, 100%.  I can't say that you're wrong or prove it in any way.  Your reading is absolutely as valid as mine, no more and no less.”

--

Commenter: “Isn't it heavily implied that people touch him with bare hands while dealing with his leg? And if he is coded as having AIDS and being untouchable, why would the crew be so willing to dive in and get covered in his blood when they treat his leg, especially when they're also scraped up at the time?”

Mera: “I haven't had a chance to write up this meta yet, but in a nutshell: we see Jim and Archie amputate his leg (with their hands pressed together in visual union atop it).  They're covered in blood and this is one of the least realistic depictions of a survivable amputation attempt in media ever, frankly... and yet Izzy lives through it!  [...]

“Notably we do NOT see Fang cleaning up.  I need to go back and verify, but I'm like 99% sure. 

“Why? Is Fang lazy or unhelpful? No, I'd say two reasons. One, he's paralyzed with grief (and the men in this show are so emotional, as Auntie rightfully notes).  But two, certain classifications of men were more susceptible to Izzy's subtextual disease. [...]

“I think it's a direct subtextual sign post to the part that lesbians/wlw/AFAB people had to play in the care of queer men dying of AIDS. [...] Jim won't catch Izzy's subtextual HIV/AIDS, ever.  Jim's hands heal and comfort, with both Izzy and Auntie -- repetition (usually) legitimizes, as I've said elsewhere.”

--

Commenter: “...while I know I have no control over this... it's alarming to see other commenters accepting this elaborate interpretation as if it's definitive.”

Mera: “Ooooh, I'd pay a dollar to find out how many comments you leave on fix-it fics. Are they also dwelling in their delusions of a world where a fictional character in a show overcomes a fictional death in the same show? Is it a sign of mental illness to indulge in word count or WORSE -- for them to irresponsibly leave those insane words just out there online where other people can also continue their madness by READING THEM?!?! The absolute horror. We writers should be ashamed, etc etc. 

“There's every possibility all the words I'm spilling over this are worth just as much as you paid for them: exactly nothing. 

“So thank goodness we have you and others like you, willing to do the purely altruistic and entirely virtuous work of... leaving comments to tell us you didn't agree? I guess?  Honestly I don't have a full lock on what your goal was here, if something other than trying to make people feel bad but fortunately not being very skilled at it.”

--

Commenter: “I wish you and every other fan nothing but the best, and for that reason, I find this hard to watch.”

Mera: “My sibling in Shiva: the 'back' button and the 'x' to close the window are available in every single web browser I have ever used in the history of the internet, ever. But I appreciate your martyrdom in staying here and nobly suffering so hard in an attempt to save me and my readers from ourselves!”

--

Commenter: “It seems like you are setting yourself and others up for even more rage and heartbreak than there would otherwise need to be.”

Mera: “I want to point out that I've tried to be very careful in not speculating about Season 3; I think it's reasonable for any fan to assume all characters living at the end of S2x08 will return in S3 unless real life status of the actors, scheduling, or budgetary considerations prevent that. 

“I want to point out that all I have are the first two seasons, and I am telling you that Izzy Hands, inside the last second of S2x08, is "mostly dead but slightly alive" -- and he's in the house, being the cause of the smell that Edward doesn't want to recognize (as he is at least twice before shown refusing to recognize what he's done as Blackbeard after the fact) but does actually recognize all the same.”

Mera admits that there are two options: “Either I'm correctly parsing the absolute bounty of subtext available in every aspect of the show, or I'm not.”

“On the day that we get that confirmation, I will feel one of two things: either the delicious vindication that I was right -- or amazement that they could build such a wondrous sky castle of subtext, whether consciously or subconsciously, and fail to complete it satisfactorily.”

“I've been wrong before and will freely and cheerfully admit it [...]. That's also why I put in my first meta post that I had been a TJLC'er -- and why I've left it in there, actually. It's correct and it's honest. Straight off I admitted I was wrong about Something Big. 

“See, it's [...] ‘hater bait,’ and it's already caught several. Lots of concern trolls that couldn't quite manage to wipe the foamy froth from their mouths long enough to keep it from dripping on their keyboards, because all of them had mentioned it... until you.”

--

“I've cackled my way through all of the writing of this post, even as I've tried to be very kind in reply -- you should have seen some of the shots I chose not to take due to their cruelty (even though they were fucking hilarious) -- so thank you for a most diverting morning.  I even got more meta and more word count out of this, so it wasn't actually a waste of productive time!”

--

Commenter: “I urge you to reconsider this approach that you're taking.”

Mera: “Here's where I'm gonna get all the way real again. Because I'm not talking to [...] that poor dear any more. I'm talking to the ones who are here with me in the stinking dark of the Pit of Despair, holding onto Izzy's naked right hand with no glove between us any more or hopefully ever again, hollering him back home out of the gravy basket.”

“If one sound had been added, everyone would know what the author knows. “We have the house. We have the grave -- with Izzy's collar on it like the dog collars on the dog graves in Pet Sematary -- where whatever comes back often comes back wrong. We've got the concept of a bad smell. We've got Stede reacting to something awful with a scream [the one thing Mera’s adding in this scenario]. 

“DONE. 

“Now the fandom is convinced that Izzy is alive, just as most of us were convinced in the last 18 months that Lucius was still alive.”

“This is part of what convinced me in the first seconds after the episode was over that Izzy wasn't dead. If I could both change the story and prove it to everyone else with just one small addition... then he's not dead.”

After Lucius was pushed overboard in season one, “I just trusted that this soft and sweet little show wouldn't actually permanently kill one of its gays. [...] And I still trust that it didn't actually permanently forever and truly kill the most gay-coded of its gays.”